From unknown Wed Jun 18 00:22:06 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#25747 <25747@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#25747 <25747@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 25.1.91; hideshow binding C-c @ C-h overrides help Reply-To: bug#25747 <25747@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2025 07:22:06 +0000 retitle 25747 25.1.91; hideshow binding C-c @ C-h overrides help reassign 25747 emacs submitter 25747 Allen Li severity 25747 minor tag 25747 wontfix thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 15 17:30:49 2017 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Feb 2017 22:30:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41440 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ce864-0005T5-SY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 17:30:49 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:60062) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ce862-0005Ss-Ko for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 17:30:47 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ce85w-0004mP-KT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 17:30:41 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM, T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:43831) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ce85w-0004mA-HG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 17:30:40 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51028) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ce85v-0007rb-6Z for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 17:30:40 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ce85u-0004lG-7u for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 17:30:39 -0500 Received: from mail-vk0-x231.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400c:c05::231]:34899) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ce85t-0004jt-VM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 17:30:38 -0500 Received: by mail-vk0-x231.google.com with SMTP id x75so174717vke.2 for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 14:30:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=PRTUmiL5qdwH+LZ7HZip+EnMqZ5ZWaAfu1o7jk7QJT4=; b=MDghw93ima9bbD4DRvZooUBQbA05rd7psjVHcL6208BfrMvDs2aJ583SM1YflggByC ynSx4+uGZxnFdUTuF9Y7Lig/pD22STIQwtckJD/pIrGR6D2rxsjWsfOWBkA+5vZO+Vyy RCtcpsJil6OOiSfXt7JuwhpHa1TOIMzDCVSYn7z7d6oOC7uw5v0BDqij87DLvdYelFmu 6hT9KZtWSeaOXP04KYNrHiyclQxhlmr1LwMSOfjepnmGRfkR8VKUSc0MdTq668lWzAgb OnKAMWaS23Tp1Ub1j9Cr7ORRjqSdXl0uD9pWX5MiByOGT5D8+nCCAaNsqG33QbkJ/ZvK bnqQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=PRTUmiL5qdwH+LZ7HZip+EnMqZ5ZWaAfu1o7jk7QJT4=; b=Z8S78kV3bQBrQiXPwAQ7NCl4My5b15MCtJ4HYfiJa2aij9V5chjxN8rApg7VwXPtct pDmk2ElNU5ZwLLNqS/gzeu5xzmCjO6XJ1SeD269uy2und9k1Z1oDm2BxNWoyJYwM7can 0HTFmvekUaioZi78SjVr4VkV0XNvwx/U21CeBJa9hkxCz4RC3U3PbscnS4X86Ir1dqc2 S5f4ukhaJWYhzusUYshnupuH7nqisV0o99CAKJdyX6Dw2skpuah8vtJO0B+XZuQl1JTX o7WlfyPQIeYpboJXw17CGsiW3RwOn2tBt8Q4CIsKnjg9lJY2Og5U2qWr2QWPgCO+kK2P Br8g== X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39m0JhsT7zr/EB9cI/8zQ+yuzM1gd3lINoDcAIehzH5ijh1aW5LOTm7gkUBEznGZnR0hKP0VhftaYxE5TA== X-Received: by 10.31.58.215 with SMTP id h206mr16036827vka.164.1487197834583; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 14:30:34 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.103.120.66 with HTTP; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 14:30:34 -0800 (PST) From: Allen Li Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 14:30:34 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: 25.1.91; hideshow binding C-c @ C-h overrides help To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) hideshow-minor-mode binds C-c @ C-h, preventing C-h from being used as the help key to describe the bindings under the C-c @ prefix. In GNU Emacs 25.1.91.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.10.8), modified by Debian Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11501000 System Description: Ubuntu 14.04 LTS Configured using: 'configure --build x86_64-linux-gnu --build x86_64-linux-gnu --prefix=/usr --sharedstatedir=/var/lib --libexecdir=/usr/lib --localstatedir=/var/lib --infodir=/usr/share/info --mandir=/usr/share/man --with-pop=yes --enable-locallisppath=/etc/google-emacs:/etc/emacs:/usr/local/share/emacs/25.1.91+gg1+2/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/25.1.91+gg1+2/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp --with-crt-dir=/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu --disable-build-details --disable-silent-rules --with-modules GOOGLE_VERSION=25.1.91+gg1+2 --with-x=yes --with-x-toolkit=gtk3 --with-toolkit-scroll-bars build_alias=x86_64-linux-gnu 'CFLAGS=-g -O2 -fstack-protector --param=ssp-buffer-size=4 -Wformat -Werror=format-security -Wall' 'LDFLAGS=-Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions -Wl,-z,relro -Wl,-fuse-ld=gold,--export-dynamic-symbol=__google_auxv' 'CPPFLAGS=-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 -DGOOGLE_EMACS_DEFINE_AUXV'' Configured features: XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG IMAGEMAGICK SOUND GPM DBUS GCONF GSETTINGS NOTIFY LIBSELINUX GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE M17N_FLT LIBOTF XFT ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11 MODULES From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 16 00:57:02 2017 Received: (at 25747) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Feb 2017 05:57:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41595 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ceF3u-0000XO-4B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 00:57:02 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:54371) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ceF3t-0000XA-46 for 25747@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 00:57:01 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ceF3l-0001Vg-07 for 25747@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 00:56:56 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:48545) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ceF3k-0001V9-Sm; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 00:56:52 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1899 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ceF3j-0000UP-Sx; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 00:56:52 -0500 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 07:57:16 +0200 Message-Id: <834lzuznib.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Allen Li In-reply-to: (message from Allen Li on Wed, 15 Feb 2017 14:30:34 -0800) Subject: Re: bug#25747: 25.1.91; hideshow binding C-c @ C-h overrides help References: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25747 Cc: 25747@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > From: Allen Li > Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 14:30:34 -0800 > > hideshow-minor-mode binds C-c @ C-h, preventing C-h from being used as > the help key to describe the bindings under the C-c @ prefix. You can type "C-c @ ?" instead, i.e. use the question-mark '?' instead of C-h. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 16 03:54:42 2017 Received: (at 25747) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Feb 2017 08:54:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41667 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ceHpp-0004lj-Ry for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 03:54:42 -0500 Received: from mail-vk0-f42.google.com ([209.85.213.42]:34092) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ceHpo-0004lX-MC for 25747@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 03:54:41 -0500 Received: by mail-vk0-f42.google.com with SMTP id r136so6425454vke.1 for <25747@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 00:54:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=mclFpSKzzDBag1CI9rJtkc26PROUSv+XgzO9nNw+A54=; b=Qvo7NO/rrA/qS9ECwtWZFnR9qAWbdBCNz3PmxcD4wyp7++3uDJyEcSl7oZ8NbwRGc1 cctyiQcUe6Wm/ZjfLXPW05hWNsAaTO1adpVI7eQjN5CqmQ6mWMKXoeIyJf39WokTXdsu sbrHcYwskIktYDSm96WjCFSsnC0dJgiRcShxWnJ4VXKkT0UBSUBO4b1jeSyFghNojGSq yLgf797c+T2Bfx3t86XEPJ3MaOtE257G0ZuZarAwlJ6EVqUgBgEGbN58Cm4el8WQv8ao o1v42XlhfDuG6uQJGzHMR99IzlrCf5DXbMogP6zUiWt7SnhlxGJHhEKeVkGEfrIu5RSm sYUQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=mclFpSKzzDBag1CI9rJtkc26PROUSv+XgzO9nNw+A54=; b=lhHUBVjAd3QZLtiNUmPMM46nXbtfW49p/fzYSf1PBscoTT90dvwhEPuRFIxVbpVHu9 yTxukFyJaj9wrjhi6l+CChqa3ETdHBaJBrU/CaEQolP0k/ZWtg4pXfyOXo0pJC7ANZPX 6Wv0oU/Tr7HcKDkKijNMqUnHm5IkoSA4p7LVy6hUA//HtRqxPkJ84bjSMH5jHwaPM064 nsYS8mte8f9gVS8JrdBDFPNErTEQjvqUcbXmeCb+4IIR4mnkS/TsZbndPMudhW1gai6U roCqvZqHXz78xBByMv9jUslJ4ug/4rka1JdG+7jp14PDTv1u38OKWX7uM1fYIrn06M1l y8PA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39k5Z1DvnP1pDcLVxZpctRm7NPxRyXHSjG5/llrGlOX/Vxhbs/kwIoUdSGmyTde3zQfco7S3oI23AIrbLA== X-Received: by 10.31.79.132 with SMTP id d126mr544925vkb.24.1487235274987; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 00:54:34 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.103.120.66 with HTTP; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 00:54:34 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <834lzuznib.fsf@gnu.org> References: <834lzuznib.fsf@gnu.org> From: Allen Li Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 00:54:34 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#25747: 25.1.91; hideshow binding C-c @ C-h overrides help To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25747 Cc: 25747@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 9:57 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > You can type "C-c @ ?" instead, i.e. use the question-mark '?' instead > of C-h. Ah, that's embarrassing. Rereading the manual I see this important bit that I have forgotten: You can get a list of subcommands for a particular prefix key by typing C-h, ?, or F1 (describe-prefix-bindings) after the prefix key. (There are a few prefix keys for which not all of these keys work=E2=80=94those that provide their own bindings for that key. One of these prefix keys is ESC, because ESC C-h is actually C-M-h, which marks a defun. However, ESC F1 and ESC ? work fine.) I guess this is working as intended, then? I was thinking of the recommendation in the style guide, which I have read many times more than the manual: Don=E2=80=99t bind C-h following any prefix character (including C-c). If you don=E2=80=99t bind C-h, it is automatically available as a help character for listing the subcommands of the prefix character. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 16 11:10:52 2017 Received: (at 25747) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Feb 2017 16:10:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42397 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ceOdw-0003Jq-Ap for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 11:10:52 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:57412) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ceOdu-0003Je-RV for 25747@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 11:10:51 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ceOdl-00060N-Lw for 25747@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 11:10:45 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:55348) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ceOdl-00060F-Ip; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 11:10:41 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2329 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ceOdk-0000hy-Sy; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 11:10:41 -0500 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 18:11:06 +0200 Message-Id: <83vasaxgit.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Allen Li In-reply-to: (message from Allen Li on Thu, 16 Feb 2017 00:54:34 -0800) Subject: Re: bug#25747: 25.1.91; hideshow binding C-c @ C-h overrides help References: <834lzuznib.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25747 Cc: 25747@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > From: Allen Li > Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 00:54:34 -0800 > Cc: 25747@debbugs.gnu.org > > You can get a list of subcommands for a particular prefix key by > typing C-h, ?, or F1 (describe-prefix-bindings) after the prefix > key. (There are a few prefix keys for which not all of these keys > work—those that provide their own bindings for that key. One of > these prefix keys is ESC, because ESC C-h is actually C-M-h, > which marks a defun. However, ESC F1 and ESC ? work fine.) > > I guess this is working as intended, then? I don't know, it could be. > I was thinking of the recommendation in the style guide, which I > have read many times more than the manual: > > Don’t bind C-h following any prefix character (including > C-c). If you don’t bind C-h, it is automatically available as > a help character for listing the subcommands of the prefix > character. Perhaps we should make that somewhat softer, e.g. "We don't recommend binding C-h ... if it can be avoided.." or somesuch. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 14 20:14:44 2020 Received: (at 25747) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Nov 2020 01:14:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52295 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ke6cu-0003Wb-45 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 20:14:44 -0500 Received: from mail-ej1-f47.google.com ([209.85.218.47]:37511) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ke6cs-0003WN-LF for 25747@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 20:14:42 -0500 Received: by mail-ej1-f47.google.com with SMTP id f20so19360215ejz.4 for <25747@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 17:14:42 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-transfer-encoding; bh=D4qpVViUbC/XDKzgoDuEznMH2NhZnaSY2C50z/95Ee0=; b=azZTIKzvvBYS5592eLufPpjelA7vGZHKm1QRL6nuTupHyxkebk+dyVSaC+yyitOL83 HNgKRMNCw0K6uvABJwZRgK57+tHzFZvQZpIMppmHUUM55pzJgOYq2XMGPlDuBymfVJPY pTNysef701lbSxXWEWbB6tbFJ2aCCZxVTbJzlQmtNzkH/nv0MRdBFQqf5YVkZDvmn7GK Jq/dx20o1aCHnA0SVmoRy3TbQM4+miyYFQfZxQu6NPcjyH+z7VXWH2Vc2Vea/AAPvQSA R59o/3EQNQES+ZZg8n1QiKGItXcxNQ8YiLNXdQmEHljZ8UrNEDv/Bv2TVySo97xlcCqi 9LsA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530vOs832bOarHj+gI2WCrgu8Zhb04ffpFTvgil02yRW7heFCmqh DnsHlDhGjW8Gto7kXVfNTWCi2sePqVjwHLkfXpc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwF4M6hUQ3yWMu7KxrbxOLNHdiZLveTnWnzLrt74RIhrdXSMkVKTvKy8SJRScR/Xrz4LxTose17bo6WDU2bf/o= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:4e90:: with SMTP id v16mr9109538eju.477.1605402876957; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 17:14:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 17:14:36 -0800 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <83vasaxgit.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 16 Feb 2017 18:11:06 +0200") References: <834lzuznib.fsf@gnu.org> <83vasaxgit.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 17:14:36 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#25747: 25.1.91; hideshow binding C-c @ C-h overrides help To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25747 Cc: Allen Li , 25747@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> You can get a list of subcommands for a particular prefix key by >> typing C-h, ?, or F1 (describe-prefix-bindings) after the prefix >> key. (There are a few prefix keys for which not all of these keys >> work=E2=80=94those that provide their own bindings for that key. One= of >> these prefix keys is ESC, because ESC C-h is actually C-M-h, >> which marks a defun. However, ESC F1 and ESC ? work fine.) >> >> I guess this is working as intended, then? > > I don't know, it could be. > >> I was thinking of the recommendation in the style guide, which I >> have read many times more than the manual: >> >> Don=E2=80=99t bind C-h following any prefix character (including >> C-c). If you don=E2=80=99t bind C-h, it is automatically available a= s >> a help character for listing the subcommands of the prefix >> character. > > Perhaps we should make that somewhat softer, e.g. "We don't recommend > binding C-h ... if it can be avoided.." or somesuch. I think it's fine to maintain a firm recommendation. Binding C-h is a very poor choice, and should be discouraged accordingly. I also think that "C-c @ C-h" is a very unfortunate keybinding, even if it is mnemonic for "hide". But it seems much too late to do anything about that now. So I don't think we should do anything here, besides closing this as wontfix. Any other opinions? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 14 20:49:44 2020 Received: (at 25747) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Nov 2020 01:49:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52305 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ke7Al-0004Ka-UA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 20:49:44 -0500 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:55546) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ke7Ak-0004KN-28 for 25747@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 20:49:42 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0AF1nX8O008592; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 01:49:36 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=4epRNf9XtwnTEWY0hYk1qKgKjEYWaILrhJoNRtJ3FCc=; b=gIEXxI+5aFg6BgjEaPG9/HTNhhbgEB7o8UxJ+PIWgBO5R//I6Uv+4qu8qaFYY0/DAJxO WcZwsDz+KNbqA9m6f4SB6QbBoT4//CxZRboq1l5E0LQY7uURtOgcD9u+rXnxO1+NOu++ v8Y+PyJo7+yfZzHPw8wcNH5wfaWMcKkpAAxWnA/A57Td9rt7S/vGMcqdW0Ti5mzwo1ge vckXkPSZFiqXtZ65YrOy2rBqzRjuJ1w0L52bmhMg9FHX4VvRKgsHLOeOJXxuJ9FcBijs 9vlgRW7eVRewX6KbNuqp9hxZQknQ4jglWZsnlDknGe71kCQZySPUulKvwZfuSpiBZf6q jw== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 34t76khey4-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 15 Nov 2020 01:49:36 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0AF1f51D125601; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 01:47:35 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 34ts4v1rrj-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 15 Nov 2020 01:47:35 +0000 Received: from abhmp0014.oracle.com (abhmp0014.oracle.com [141.146.116.20]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 0AF1lXW5017944; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 01:47:33 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <21a400a6-6497-4445-bd4b-ecc0830058da@default> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 17:47:32 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Stefan Kangas , Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: bug#25747: 25.1.91; hideshow binding C-c @ C-h overrides help References: <834lzuznib.fsf@gnu.org> <83vasaxgit.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5071.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9805 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=999 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2011150007 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9805 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 priorityscore=1501 bulkscore=0 clxscore=1011 mlxlogscore=999 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2011150007 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25747 Cc: Allen Li , 25747@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > I also think that "C-c @ C-h" is a very unfortunate keybinding, even if > it is mnemonic for "hide". I agree. There are other *hide* commands that don't use `C-h' in their bindings. There are even other hideshow hide commands that don't use it: C-c @ C-M-h C-c @ C-l C-c @ C-t C-c @ C-d There's anyway redundancy: C-c @ C-h is the same as C-c @ C-d. (And C-c @ C-M-h is the same as C-c @ C-t.) Are all of the default bindings really necessary/useful? (If you think it's important to have something that fits with the `C-c @ C-M-h' of `hs-hide-all' then use `C-c @ M-h'.) My guess is that the author just didn't know about using `C-h' after a prefix arg. And the more exceptions to that working, the more people will do likewise: mistakenly (in ignorance) bind `C-h' after a prefix key, preventing it from that use. > But it seems much too late to do anything about that now. Why is it too late? Just drop `C-c @ C-h' - that's my suggestion. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Dec 01 14:18:51 2021 Received: (at 25747) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Dec 2021 19:18:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45673 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1msV7z-0000YJ-6h for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Dec 2021 14:18:51 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:57056) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1msV7s-0000Xq-6I for 25747@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Dec 2021 14:18:49 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=IAKPpIsP7WMquWUxaJM4q6Ma+gRR8trXzOfQDJp5Gp0=; b=V+Q7WwBU682hReebz0kV1edqAE UAs+C+00QgIzF3eulYw+gBO1l2Ulw7yPBZM0RtN2n3ux6DeZmqhJ7EjCiPIWAssCDUFAUN+nXV126 aSXGE1O1B1dO76f3ixEaCtCC25J01A8Muus+lNZirFCm1BuT2gsSHj1VNsjJntZRCcfQ=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1msV7j-0001rv-CW; Wed, 01 Dec 2021 20:18:38 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#25747: 25.1.91; hideshow binding C-c @ C-h overrides help References: <834lzuznib.fsf@gnu.org> <83vasaxgit.fsf@gnu.org> X-Now-Playing: DJ Rupture's _Curiosity Slowdown_: "Curiosity Slowdown (part 3)" Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2021 20:18:34 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Sat, 14 Nov 2020 17:14:36 -0800") Message-ID: <87pmqggmlx.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Kangas writes: > So I don't think we should do anything here, besides closing this as > wontfix. Any other opinions? I agree that there doesn't seem to be anything to do here, so I'm closing this bug report now. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25747 Cc: Allen Li , Eli Zaretskii , 25747@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Stefan Kangas writes: > So I don't think we should do anything here, besides closing this as > wontfix. Any other opinions? I agree that there doesn't seem to be anything to do here, so I'm closing this bug report now. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Dec 01 14:18:51 2021 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Dec 2021 19:18:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45671 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1msV7y-0000YH-Mx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Dec 2021 14:18:51 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:57072) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1msV7w-0000Xx-Kg for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Dec 2021 14:18:48 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=kn4SB1FsHgeiMgsFp2+RW2TlBermA1EHS5jx71kwo90=; b=KWGTMoVEU/HooLQJxiCtmwdbcf XpqnpoC5/aw62Gg/MERo7EisZXc4vgEOd+Q3NEau2aTkMmCf3zqutNMcYpLgOGc0QlO69d0v/cWNA nTdgtq7LQLJvhIqwWkLQy+xW9sPWKwtfyWdOL2tByrZckTrPVjynKp2Z0nWFhqSqxWls=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1msV7o-0001s6-Me for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Dec 2021 20:18:43 +0100 Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2021 20:18:40 +0100 Message-Id: <87o860gmlr.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #25747 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 25747 wontfix close 25747 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) tags 25747 wontfix close 25747 quit From unknown Wed Jun 18 00:22:06 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2021 12:24:11 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator