From unknown Sun Jun 22 11:31:11 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#25407 <25407@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#25407 <25407@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: ls documentation should reflect file system atime setting Reply-To: bug#25407 <25407@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2025 18:31:11 +0000 retitle 25407 ls documentation should reflect file system atime setting reassign 25407 coreutils submitter 25407 Scott Deerwester severity 25407 normal thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 09 14:02:41 2017 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jan 2017 19:02:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48051 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cQfDN-0003NQ-0N for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Jan 2017 14:02:41 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:54680) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cQekK-0002dL-S5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Jan 2017 13:32:41 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cQekE-0007ey-TH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Jan 2017 13:32:35 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:40262) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cQekE-0007es-Q9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Jan 2017 13:32:34 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45650) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cQekC-0006H8-KH for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Mon, 09 Jan 2017 13:32:34 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cQekB-0007eA-RC for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Mon, 09 Jan 2017 13:32:32 -0500 Received: from mail-yw0-x230.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4002:c05::230]:35217) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cQekB-0007df-ND for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Mon, 09 Jan 2017 13:32:31 -0500 Received: by mail-yw0-x230.google.com with SMTP id v81so331637651ywb.2 for ; Mon, 09 Jan 2017 10:32:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Msy7IXZhD56VOa6FfocvgbjjqvwlxosX6mr1RM6ivTY=; b=CtQrh2LpXsDr71DIQion5yAlhlvkx+ehnMGF8RyQV0RvQ4SvBT5F1Tp/BCLrDXQUc+ 3TZlSNMc41JhlxD6YsziSSW7e3PgeECM/DMr1QExVUNZo+9zWrlCCmBjVR4Ft8Gddsb6 LdXPyuJ88bh9imJo2k6rrjwTgmvE0Pjdzamp+SCY94LXmfwY9GvLcqKI6v6g8U2tVCKk S1MLlpyzjOnG3Ry3J1J4CiiE/+7ZK5GP+bHH2CSof4blK8KuRaRp+L39Am/GSynXD1AS kMGpVe/D50Hyw54DtUG3hD4simMQ7iHt2dj9x7WRJpmG3CK7CdfS4/pltTi3SHaJjRYs 9+lg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Msy7IXZhD56VOa6FfocvgbjjqvwlxosX6mr1RM6ivTY=; b=mRuWb/sv7a1BZFGPbmP31Te2EfHD16coxawvEmtbX0dvtY192jMqNrPKoRfVuI6KrI x3LVbD4v1cOQ87b26QXHButKVYgcZTinLpkEz2k9IRn+kbGGGTYjUS5BFCoX9jUlmXW0 FMb6yUYDiRcCLxrZBGHCsB+wiM0pZlWUjmLPmofyGWnSXKmaJE55E358Rcdza9oH4PXm 46a7FiVWfiT4c8pja2cbTmjh23SQljsmNAXdi1ULD47/vwzsr9WLV2dNUqpZENCA1ix2 vDs2fXHjuUS3gvJ5fLWe8Y/FHOFtzIfo8bQqt238kE51GhT5VO+L9nF6H+E8jT4bYdyw EW5Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXJMqv59fRteCA+LUpHji9/2fneYL01MlqH/N9RPdeLDRU3x0dKnDwaCNAZGUfSwUBT3bS3bsyR93E2X8A== X-Received: by 10.13.208.199 with SMTP id s190mr86716949ywd.201.1483986749439; Mon, 09 Jan 2017 10:32:29 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Scott Deerwester Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2017 18:32:18 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: ls documentation should reflect file system atime setting To: bug-coreutils@gnu.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114daa300d46b30545ad97b7 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 09 Jan 2017 14:02:39 -0500 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) --001a114daa300d46b30545ad97b7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 The -u option to ls is documented as sorting by and printing the access time of a file instead of the modification time. This has been the (correct) behavior for decades. In modern distributions, however, file systems are routinely mounted with either relatime or noatime replacing atime, which causes the -u option to fail silently and use either the modification time (if the file system is mounted with noatime), or an arbitrary access time (if mounted with relatime). This behavior should be prominently documented in the man page for ls under the -u option. --001a114daa300d46b30545ad97b7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The -u option to ls is documented as sorting by and printi= ng the access time of a file instead of the modification time. This has bee= n the (correct) behavior for decades. In modern distributions, however, fil= e systems are routinely mounted with either relatime or noatime replacing a= time, which causes the -u option to fail silently and use either the modifi= cation time (if the file system is mounted with noatime), or an arbitrary a= ccess time (if mounted with relatime). This behavior should be prominently = documented in the man page for ls under the -u option.
--001a114daa300d46b30545ad97b7-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 09 18:18:41 2017 Received: (at 25407-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jan 2017 23:18:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48270 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cQjD7-0002yc-Br for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Jan 2017 18:18:41 -0500 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:40230) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cQjD5-0002yM-Hv for 25407-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Jan 2017 18:18:40 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80D0516005A; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 15:18:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id yAr2Ff4jXKfp; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 15:18:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF7211600E8; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 15:18:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id zLVcHUU3YdFk; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 15:18:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9A47116005A; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 15:18:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: bug#25407: ls documentation should reflect file system atime setting To: Scott Deerwester , 25407-done@debbugs.gnu.org References: From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <7464c201-ef9d-9cc4-c8d7-4f1bba5b105e@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2017 15:18:32 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------8FD3BAB8C47FA36CC5B486B0" X-Spam-Score: -3.2 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25407-done X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.2 (---) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------8FD3BAB8C47FA36CC5B486B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 01/09/2017 10:32 AM, Scott Deerwester wrote: > This behavior should be > prominently documented in the man page for ls under the -u option. Thanks for mentioning the issue. Although it's worth documenting I'm not sure it belongs in the ls man page, which is supposed to be quite terse. Instead, I documented it in the coreutils manual (which is the primary documentation for 'ls' anyway) by installing the attached. 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0M7Fcg-1cds9Q0T5i-00x3Wb; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 20:11:58 +0100 Subject: Re: bug#25407: ls documentation should reflect file system atime setting To: 25407@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, scott.deerwester@gmail.com References: <7464c201-ef9d-9cc4-c8d7-4f1bba5b105e@cs.ucla.edu> From: Bernhard Voelker Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 20:11:55 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <7464c201-ef9d-9cc4-c8d7-4f1bba5b105e@cs.ucla.edu> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------21FB198515E21152552541C0" X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:h3wmtVzLd2eez3wHQFJp7d7i1BV55O/X7Wj0s2Amm0zt+ukMaO2 83dv0UyIHHA5SKbika+ktN6HAzCriEFuwH4s7puc9TfUtrntdTrS9CovVdF3OEWdiI7p5uP clUl/Vsvf2Z+FNf1FYgN4Bx1ESzojO00lGXJ53qiaMamyFOLtUp0bvdb4w8m52kgtKpkTKp TqMqeT++gTGnxrZ07QyTw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:A9Phs6G6Nks=:r60X12Tc3v1SI8yrHYg6bW H1QrhQXrpsW3mYDFsRvmNeHP2GPazbGEJehlUVR9TEeFJOJWWUlEWGwhQEcYGjtI9brHDg8Ia 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multi-part message in MIME format. --------------21FB198515E21152552541C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 01/10/2017 12:18 AM, Paul Eggert wrote: > Instead, I documented it in the coreutils manual (which is the primary > documentation for 'ls' anyway) by installing the attached. The first > patch is a minor cleanup, the second the real doc change. I like it, although I'd avoid to place such a general description (similar to the node "File permissions") in the middle of the utility chapters. The attached fixes this - okay to push? Thanks & have a nice day, Berny --------------21FB198515E21152552541C0 Content-Type: text/x-patch; name="0001-doc-move-File-timestamps-to-a-separate-chapter.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename*0="0001-doc-move-File-timestamps-to-a-separate-chapter.patch" >From 5695d0547d2213a660418da7a68af2dca6e2ba50 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Bernhard Voelker Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 20:03:58 +0100 Subject: [PATCH] doc: move "File timestamps" to a separate chapter The above new section looked a bit odd as the only general documentation in between the utility chapters. * doc/coreutils.texi (File timestamps): Move to a separate chapter. --- doc/coreutils.texi | 144 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++------------------------- 1 file changed, 75 insertions(+), 69 deletions(-) diff --git a/doc/coreutils.texi b/doc/coreutils.texi index 1b4a931..88acb7e 100644 --- a/doc/coreutils.texi +++ b/doc/coreutils.texi @@ -209,6 +209,7 @@ Free Documentation License''. * Delaying:: sleep * Numeric operations:: factor numfmt seq * File permissions:: Access modes +* File timestamps:: File timestamp issues * Date input formats:: Specifying date strings * Opening the software toolbox:: The software tools philosophy * GNU Free Documentation License:: Copying and sharing this manual @@ -342,7 +343,6 @@ Changing file attributes * chgrp invocation:: Change group ownership * chmod invocation:: Change access permissions * touch invocation:: Change file timestamps -* File timestamps:: File timestamp issues Disk usage @@ -467,6 +467,11 @@ Numeric operations * numfmt invocation:: Reformat numbers * seq invocation:: Print numeric sequences + +File timestamps + +* File timestamps:: File timestamp issues + File permissions * Mode Structure:: Structure of file mode bits @@ -10432,7 +10437,6 @@ These commands change file attributes. * chgrp invocation:: Change file groups. * chmod invocation:: Change access permissions. * touch invocation:: Change file timestamps. -* File timestamps:: File timestamp issues. @end menu @@ -11051,73 +11055,6 @@ For example, use @samp{touch ./12312359 main.c} or @samp{touch -t @exitstatus -@node File timestamps -@section File timestamps - -@cindex atime -@cindex birthtime -@cindex ctime -@cindex mtime -Standard POSIX files have three timestamps: the access timestamp -(atime) of the last read, the modification timestamp (mtime) of the -last write, and the status change timestamp (ctime) of the last change -to the the file's meta-information. Some file systems support a -fourth time: the birth timestamp (birthtime) of when the file was -created; by definition, birthtime never changes. - -One common example of a ctime change is when the permissions of a file -change. Changing the permissions doesn't access the file, so atime -doesn't change, nor does it modify the file, so the mtime doesn't -change. Yet, something about the file itself has changed, and this -must be noted somewhere. This is the job of the ctime field. This is -necessary, so that, for example, a backup program can make a fresh -copy of the file, including the new permissions value. Another -operation that modifies a file's ctime without affecting the others is -renaming. - -Naively, a file's atime, mtime, and ctime are set to the current time -whenever you read, write, or change the attributes of the file -respectively, and searching a directory counts as reading it. A -file's atime and mtime can also be set directly, via the -@command{touch} command (@pxref{touch invocation}). In practice, -though, timestamps are not updated quite that way. - -For efficiency reasons, many systems are lazy about updating atimes: -when a program accesses a file, they may delay updating the file's -atime, or may not update the file's atime if the file has been -accessed recently, or may not update the atime at all. Similar -laziness, though typically not quite so extreme, applies to mtimes and -ctimes. - -Some systems emulate timestamps instead of supporting them directly, -and these emulations may disagree with the naive interpretation. For -example, a system may fake an atime or ctime by using the mtime. - -@cindex clock skew -The determination of what time is ``current'' depends on the -platform. Platforms with network file systems often use different -clocks for the operating system and for file systems; because -updates typically uses file systems' clocks by default, clock -skew can cause the resulting file timestamps to appear to be in a -program's ``future'' or ``past''. - -@cindex file timestamp resolution -When the system updates a file timestamp to a desired time @var{t} -(which is either the current time, or a time specified via the -@command{touch} command), there are several reasons the file's -timestamp may be set to a value that differs from @var{t}. First, -@var{t} may have a higher resolution than supported. Second, a file -system may use different resolutions for different types of times. -Third, file timestamps may use a different resolution than operating -system timestamps. Fourth, the operating system primitives used to -update timestamps may employ yet a different resolution. For example, -in theory a file system might use 10-microsecond resolution for access -timestamp and 100-nanosecond resolution for modification timestamp, and the -operating system might use nanosecond resolution for the current time -and microsecond resolution for the primitive that @command{touch} uses -to set a file's timestamp to an arbitrary value. - - @node Disk usage @chapter Disk usage @@ -17669,8 +17606,77 @@ outputs 1.0000000000000000007 twice and skips 1.0000000000000000008. @chapter File permissions @include perm.texi + +@node File timestamps +@chapter File timestamps + +@cindex atime +@cindex birthtime +@cindex ctime +@cindex mtime +Standard POSIX files have three timestamps: the access timestamp +(atime) of the last read, the modification timestamp (mtime) of the +last write, and the status change timestamp (ctime) of the last change +to the the file's meta-information. Some file systems support a +fourth time: the birth timestamp (birthtime) of when the file was +created; by definition, birthtime never changes. + +One common example of a ctime change is when the permissions of a file +change. Changing the permissions doesn't access the file, so atime +doesn't change, nor does it modify the file, so the mtime doesn't +change. Yet, something about the file itself has changed, and this +must be noted somewhere. This is the job of the ctime field. This is +necessary, so that, for example, a backup program can make a fresh +copy of the file, including the new permissions value. Another +operation that modifies a file's ctime without affecting the others is +renaming. + +Naively, a file's atime, mtime, and ctime are set to the current time +whenever you read, write, or change the attributes of the file +respectively, and searching a directory counts as reading it. A +file's atime and mtime can also be set directly, via the +@command{touch} command (@pxref{touch invocation}). In practice, +though, timestamps are not updated quite that way. + +For efficiency reasons, many systems are lazy about updating atimes: +when a program accesses a file, they may delay updating the file's +atime, or may not update the file's atime if the file has been +accessed recently, or may not update the atime at all. Similar +laziness, though typically not quite so extreme, applies to mtimes and +ctimes. + +Some systems emulate timestamps instead of supporting them directly, +and these emulations may disagree with the naive interpretation. For +example, a system may fake an atime or ctime by using the mtime. + +@cindex clock skew +The determination of what time is ``current'' depends on the +platform. Platforms with network file systems often use different +clocks for the operating system and for file systems; because +updates typically uses file systems' clocks by default, clock +skew can cause the resulting file timestamps to appear to be in a +program's ``future'' or ``past''. + +@cindex file timestamp resolution +When the system updates a file timestamp to a desired time @var{t} +(which is either the current time, or a time specified via the +@command{touch} command), there are several reasons the file's +timestamp may be set to a value that differs from @var{t}. First, +@var{t} may have a higher resolution than supported. Second, a file +system may use different resolutions for different types of times. +Third, file timestamps may use a different resolution than operating +system timestamps. Fourth, the operating system primitives used to +update timestamps may employ yet a different resolution. For example, +in theory a file system might use 10-microsecond resolution for access +timestamp and 100-nanosecond resolution for modification timestamp, and the +operating system might use nanosecond resolution for the current time +and microsecond resolution for the primitive that @command{touch} uses +to set a file's timestamp to an arbitrary value. + + @include parse-datetime.texi + @c What's GNU? @c Arnold Robbins @node Opening the software toolbox -- 2.1.4 --------------21FB198515E21152552541C0-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 10 14:21:40 2017 Received: (at 25407) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jan 2017 19:21:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49153 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cR1zH-0005Sj-Ux for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 14:21:40 -0500 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.135]:55983) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cR1zF-0005SW-Uw for 25407@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 14:21:38 -0500 Received: from [192.168.101.10] ([217.86.87.177]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue003 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MKuxg-1cR1z61fl2-000199; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 20:21:28 +0100 Subject: Re: bug#25407: ls documentation should reflect file system atime setting To: 25407@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, scott.deerwester@gmail.com References: <7464c201-ef9d-9cc4-c8d7-4f1bba5b105e@cs.ucla.edu> From: Bernhard Voelker Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 20:21:27 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <7464c201-ef9d-9cc4-c8d7-4f1bba5b105e@cs.ucla.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:m02r2IkCVHsURUDga/6uyMxPJndCE8FOIXq8KBI6FixkkCQCRHq mWqxaFL14g5DlAXaW5Kuutz0j7JTK2fzbRnwuLZqo8GbcPNf0/YCKmFx9OaQBrAeqSbnbOF D7RGHJ0CbRGVAzcsAB/1UhhEq8jgS6MuVoTBS0Vw+bT8aHcfIWwJSuxNfTp4YiOM0qYVFbv 9CH/xUv2FdDsP0+sVexFA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:3MNGkBf1maY=:XugO6aPi5zD3NIoKLnOMjS arKq8S5kj6pHuxbVmJwYYnoIthDjq4jIZCqYrs8gWNcKjBuVaja4Xe2DqV/g1pPkJ/SA/RCud agfjFTcE2wK+5HQXYTA/BZlVhGnGB3/UhMX+QEI766pNwMNDjxOpT8zRQMwsKifEpBYs0eg/3 fwOX7W9nZsZxWIButA/MjfluWB+4HiNkbaN5WtTe6CPWD3IIB/XKW/oQ4+0TUrR1EjTKgO21O xfnFxusYeUMfnyQgTjnf5S8rtI56+YUQEwUmwpgTr1abCsfLyUIEyiU0Zy263enR7/Zgen/uM /FVnI5LuG+A6F9sTQDUH0M6iQ6K+aNxy5T1WY21lw2e7xejjqUJ1SYXiLYTIGBIRqiDnqW0gb gV3EG7rCmFhhNvDv3+sNAlqfvL3QNmEiLq/0ux69N9PzFBsFM222m5/KEVFO+gl8QJ42rI5Qg upemmICN7LFkhUJtTgdlqvHPFuj0Sz8K8u6s2dYidlkSmze27tZ1beM0tuqwUkNKZ4KQ4bJ+K X+6xRdsDvPedjUDzUScnzVNB0J+pK295NzWzH2t9v5ToDTW/aPNzBpgb10zlF1s2p98T4vckW q5myihgnhwCp+tHHCPOs8alcgd5ZZVFFH26CfQ+2MFXBtjMyV+4ZMDQMhcA6VvpI5PzR0idUX tv/KpfSe6nKqRU+revNVMHhOtw7tjhSsYFtmv2EouFxgCiRMYC//1jxxdcAXys7sNj3aYlXsx IYf/0Z9iai19HfND X-Spam-Score: -1.2 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25407 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.2 (-) On 01/10/2017 12:18 AM, Paul Eggert wrote: > The first patch is a minor cleanup [...] ... which makes the syntax-check fail: maint.mk: you have modified old NEWS maint.mk:1074: recipe for target 'sc_immutable_NEWS' failed make: *** [sc_immutable_NEWS] Error 1 Have a nice day, Berny From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 10 14:30:05 2017 Received: (at 25407) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jan 2017 19:30:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49158 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cR27Q-0005fL-RW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 14:30:05 -0500 Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([209.132.183.28]:37638) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cR27O-0005eN-Ma for 25407@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 14:30:03 -0500 Received: from int-mx13.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (int-mx13.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BBEA9804FB; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 19:29:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.10.118.201] (ovpn-118-201.rdu2.redhat.com [10.10.118.201]) by int-mx13.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v0AJTt8E028378; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 14:29:56 -0500 Subject: Re: bug#25407: ls documentation should reflect file system atime setting To: Bernhard Voelker , 25407@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, scott.deerwester@gmail.com References: <7464c201-ef9d-9cc4-c8d7-4f1bba5b105e@cs.ucla.edu> From: Eric Blake Openpgp: url=http://people.redhat.com/eblake/eblake.gpg Organization: Red Hat, Inc. Message-ID: <33ef3658-8448-313d-279f-26b35430fd23@redhat.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 13:29:54 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="UmIlia6X6btDBonp1Mgjd2Skn4jNBU0En" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.68 on 10.5.11.26 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.5.16 (mx1.redhat.com [10.5.110.27]); Tue, 10 Jan 2017 19:29:57 +0000 (UTC) X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25407 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --UmIlia6X6btDBonp1Mgjd2Skn4jNBU0En Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="rUCBQGA9TCCDsawIugb6W4sXBo2Gu7KLp"; protected-headers="v1" From: Eric Blake To: Bernhard Voelker , 25407@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, scott.deerwester@gmail.com Message-ID: <33ef3658-8448-313d-279f-26b35430fd23@redhat.com> Subject: Re: bug#25407: ls documentation should reflect file system atime setting References: <7464c201-ef9d-9cc4-c8d7-4f1bba5b105e@cs.ucla.edu> In-Reply-To: --rUCBQGA9TCCDsawIugb6W4sXBo2Gu7KLp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 01/10/2017 01:21 PM, Bernhard Voelker wrote: > On 01/10/2017 12:18 AM, Paul Eggert wrote: >> The first patch is a minor cleanup [...] >=20 > ... which makes the syntax-check fail: >=20 > maint.mk: you have modified old NEWS > maint.mk:1074: recipe for target 'sc_immutable_NEWS' failed > make: *** [sc_immutable_NEWS] Error 1 Fixed by running 'make update-NEWS-hash' --=20 Eric Blake eblake redhat com +1-919-301-3266 Libvirt virtualization library http://libvirt.org --rUCBQGA9TCCDsawIugb6W4sXBo2Gu7KLp-- --UmIlia6X6btDBonp1Mgjd2Skn4jNBU0En Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 Comment: Public key at http://people.redhat.com/eblake/eblake.gpg Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJYdTYyAAoJEKeha0olJ0NqmVkH/j7DKPvPolGp6ocAlBWl2+GQ 6XFSlpJVYytrGcNvsRcur+hzraahpIS4MAjHVisY2nBE1JZqmw5m91NN5FB7Qkm9 GP95wjdIWD00DlqlBOfUImhDjtLo+btiphvUwq+jeDsRtTakTA602YiHsF4tPgDP J6vobu6vXcyiUln52WWm0sVzxlWGk57Q9GWQwIZd3d5lN08wgsc/vaQ6fdA4qImX e2JdVLDwKncL3OfEN5kikM2a8QfkV67Vra6Sppcr2lGCgrk7KYqkke1KJB29ADB1 3/BeISNmUlP3ngBIOQbPmVwZDIk/PBRX3YpC53nnXCKwx12qI+6RsIO1ZRg4Aaw= =yInj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --UmIlia6X6btDBonp1Mgjd2Skn4jNBU0En-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 10 14:54:17 2017 Received: (at 25407) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jan 2017 19:54:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49166 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cR2Ur-0006EG-FI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 14:54:17 -0500 Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([209.132.183.28]:35776) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cR2Up-0006E3-8d for 25407@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 14:54:15 -0500 Received: from int-mx14.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (int-mx14.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7F7874E4F6; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 19:54:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.10.118.201] (ovpn-118-201.rdu2.redhat.com [10.10.118.201]) by int-mx14.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v0AJs9Io028439; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 14:54:09 -0500 Subject: Re: bug#25407: ls documentation should reflect file system atime setting To: Bernhard Voelker , 25407@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, scott.deerwester@gmail.com References: <7464c201-ef9d-9cc4-c8d7-4f1bba5b105e@cs.ucla.edu> <33ef3658-8448-313d-279f-26b35430fd23@redhat.com> From: Eric Blake Openpgp: url=http://people.redhat.com/eblake/eblake.gpg Organization: Red Hat, Inc. Message-ID: <9c8ce532-73cd-35b2-31e0-9b5c60953b3d@redhat.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 13:54:07 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <33ef3658-8448-313d-279f-26b35430fd23@redhat.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="LA2Ir0mr44BrpMKsjlogagNrNrPfMKqIQ" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.68 on 10.5.11.27 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.5.16 (mx1.redhat.com [10.5.110.38]); Tue, 10 Jan 2017 19:54:10 +0000 (UTC) X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25407 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --LA2Ir0mr44BrpMKsjlogagNrNrPfMKqIQ Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="MogsTox7bcHUuwoRknmsvQr6XUH5oiVbL"; protected-headers="v1" From: Eric Blake To: Bernhard Voelker , 25407@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, scott.deerwester@gmail.com Message-ID: <9c8ce532-73cd-35b2-31e0-9b5c60953b3d@redhat.com> Subject: Re: bug#25407: ls documentation should reflect file system atime setting References: <7464c201-ef9d-9cc4-c8d7-4f1bba5b105e@cs.ucla.edu> <33ef3658-8448-313d-279f-26b35430fd23@redhat.com> In-Reply-To: <33ef3658-8448-313d-279f-26b35430fd23@redhat.com> --MogsTox7bcHUuwoRknmsvQr6XUH5oiVbL Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 01/10/2017 01:29 PM, Eric Blake wrote: > On 01/10/2017 01:21 PM, Bernhard Voelker wrote: >> On 01/10/2017 12:18 AM, Paul Eggert wrote: >>> The first patch is a minor cleanup [...] >> >> ... which makes the syntax-check fail: >> >> maint.mk: you have modified old NEWS >> maint.mk:1074: recipe for target 'sc_immutable_NEWS' failed >> make: *** [sc_immutable_NEWS] Error 1 >=20 > Fixed by running 'make update-NEWS-hash' I guess that's open-ended about whether I was doing the fix or leaving it to someone else. Here's what I'm testing: =46rom cafb41a22d72452f36d3129d36e3127ae0917d51 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Eric Blake Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 13:48:45 -0600 Subject: [PATCH] maint: update NEWS hash to match recent spelling fixes Commit 4f650aad was incomplete; it changed NEWS but not the hash. * cfg.mk (old_NEWS_hash): Update via 'make update-NEWS-hash'. --- cfg.mk | 2 +- 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/cfg.mk b/cfg.mk index 7e28d9c..ec03974 100644 --- a/cfg.mk +++ b/cfg.mk @@ -48,7 +48,7 @@ export VERBOSE =3D yes # 4914152 9e export XZ_OPT =3D -8e -old_NEWS_hash =3D 33e0d81904e66223883c8bc33c29a772 +old_NEWS_hash =3D 46e9780e1ed2f2df9611205e5e08b95a # Add an exemption for sc_makefile_at_at_check. _makefile_at_at_check_exceptions =3D ' && !/^cu_install_prog/ && !/dynamic-dep/' But I haven't pushed it, since I'm still getting other unrelated syntax-check failures: $ make syntax-check =2E.. gitignore_missing /lib/Makefile maint.mk: Add above entries to .gitignore cfg.mk:781: recipe for target 'sc_gitignore_missing' failed $ make sc_gitignore_redundant gitignore_redundant /lib/alloca.h /lib/ctype.h /lib/dirent.h /lib/errno.h /lib/fcntl.h /lib/float.h /lib/fnmatch.h /lib/getopt.h /lib/iconv.h /lib/iconv_open-aix.h /lib/iconv_open-hpux.h /lib/iconv_open-irix.h /lib/iconv_open-osf.h /lib/iconv_open-solaris.h /lib/inttypes.h /lib/langinfo.h /lib/locale.h /lib/math.h /lib/netdb.h /lib/parse-datetime.c /lib/pthread.h /lib/ref-add.sed /lib/ref-del.sed /lib/sched.h /lib/se-context.h /lib/se-selinux.h /lib/signal.h /lib/stdarg.h /lib/stdbool.h /lib/stddef.h /lib/stdint.h /lib/stdio.h /lib/stdlib.h /lib/string.h /lib/termios.h /lib/time.h /lib/unistd.h /lib/unistr.h /lib/unitypes.h /lib/uniwidth.h /lib/wchar.h /lib/wctype.h maint.mk: Remove above entries from .gitignore cfg.mk:789: recipe for target 'sc_gitignore_redundant' failed --=20 Eric Blake eblake redhat com +1-919-301-3266 Libvirt virtualization library http://libvirt.org --MogsTox7bcHUuwoRknmsvQr6XUH5oiVbL-- --LA2Ir0mr44BrpMKsjlogagNrNrPfMKqIQ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 Comment: Public key at http://people.redhat.com/eblake/eblake.gpg Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJYdTvfAAoJEKeha0olJ0Nqvt8H/RXl0/fWWA9HjSWTd4UhswnQ PcN274muzo+srzAHwTKY/cXaWalkxGAxTRRMu0+5eXSfoWFsMiuhgMU6AvYdSxMD A5r459DOMegnh1UJpMNWpXdXlP9RK9QlEd0oC3y9QifnXDYW0s8V4RwbGrDiQLMD SlldL1UybDZPARa7UrgWKWbNPg7jxvC/q71Nd/WRYGoar9vSZUio0Gg8H18HWahv pvtNjTVq6tQFdmTc7SwkEXD/QEAHm6T5pk65VAoa0x6MZnBeQysFQjy9TPby32D8 aqEkOI/NtR+4pRMFxulZmfm4QmewmVgP9+Xm8eGalTVFKFVLl2jaiJS56jnoias= =V/Fl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --LA2Ir0mr44BrpMKsjlogagNrNrPfMKqIQ-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 10 15:02:41 2017 Received: (at 25407) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jan 2017 20:02:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49170 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cR2cz-0006Ry-C5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 15:02:41 -0500 Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([209.132.183.28]:58454) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cR2cx-0006Rl-N2 for 25407@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 15:02:40 -0500 Received: from int-mx13.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (int-mx13.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B48935A806; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 20:02:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.10.118.201] (ovpn-118-201.rdu2.redhat.com [10.10.118.201]) by int-mx13.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v0AK2Xi7019962; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 15:02:34 -0500 Subject: Re: bug#25407: ls documentation should reflect file system atime setting To: Bernhard Voelker , 25407@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, scott.deerwester@gmail.com References: <7464c201-ef9d-9cc4-c8d7-4f1bba5b105e@cs.ucla.edu> <33ef3658-8448-313d-279f-26b35430fd23@redhat.com> <9c8ce532-73cd-35b2-31e0-9b5c60953b3d@redhat.com> From: Eric Blake Openpgp: url=http://people.redhat.com/eblake/eblake.gpg Organization: Red Hat, Inc. Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 14:02:32 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <9c8ce532-73cd-35b2-31e0-9b5c60953b3d@redhat.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="pEXU9huXpin80em3xRrQ45D10WbjOq8lR" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.68 on 10.5.11.26 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.5.16 (mx1.redhat.com [10.5.110.29]); Tue, 10 Jan 2017 20:02:35 +0000 (UTC) X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25407 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --pEXU9huXpin80em3xRrQ45D10WbjOq8lR Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="mvqMt2e3aXsdEhQV9GrXKa6UohR12VDvn"; protected-headers="v1" From: Eric Blake To: Bernhard Voelker , 25407@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, scott.deerwester@gmail.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#25407: ls documentation should reflect file system atime setting References: <7464c201-ef9d-9cc4-c8d7-4f1bba5b105e@cs.ucla.edu> <33ef3658-8448-313d-279f-26b35430fd23@redhat.com> <9c8ce532-73cd-35b2-31e0-9b5c60953b3d@redhat.com> In-Reply-To: <9c8ce532-73cd-35b2-31e0-9b5c60953b3d@redhat.com> --mvqMt2e3aXsdEhQV9GrXKa6UohR12VDvn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 01/10/2017 01:54 PM, Eric Blake wrote: > But I haven't pushed it, since I'm still getting other unrelated > syntax-check failures: >=20 > $ make syntax-check > ... > gitignore_missing > /lib/Makefile > maint.mk: Add above entries to .gitignore > cfg.mk:781: recipe for target 'sc_gitignore_missing' failed This looks like a false positive: top-level .gitignore includes 'Makefile', which matches ALL files named Makefile at any depth throughout the tree, and thus lib/Makefile does not need to be additionally called out for being ignored. I'm not sure if this is because I've built incrementally in a tree over a long period of time, and now gnulib-tool is creating (but not modifying) .gitignore in a different manner than it used to. I'm trying a fresh clone to see if it reproduces from a clean environment. --=20 Eric Blake eblake redhat com +1-919-301-3266 Libvirt virtualization library http://libvirt.org --mvqMt2e3aXsdEhQV9GrXKa6UohR12VDvn-- --pEXU9huXpin80em3xRrQ45D10WbjOq8lR Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 Comment: Public key at http://people.redhat.com/eblake/eblake.gpg Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJYdT3YAAoJEKeha0olJ0NqMSkH/3NClTyyRHtKmaTAePm+f+Hy p2KQU89foR9DoVwXBSTA1X800dudd/gWJN+5vUskPHtU85XiVM+V6/XiiOO/fCPe s+t1wdxZEJBHOIxpswnbd2QvE/oowEDvf8ClCASV2Icymbm9VpOgdNIyzWhNl52h PlcC0iSYpwNL39R+xcf2ljcOLS2G6wwh8oVCUUfFBPcyPvY8hTsVigqThiAezDmL 4137kR8S3J/KX4pTsxm63FgtoAXeCKw4R8WTXqPAw9ujPgDlrtrbDC2PVRXUzH/N XV62OZS5xQ2jXXXJlQPfj7UaM7Q3Pu4+eFxwPiMYCtv20Y/ZN1GPqanbxxeVoho= =3nQP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --pEXU9huXpin80em3xRrQ45D10WbjOq8lR-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 10 15:11:22 2017 Received: (at 25407) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jan 2017 20:11:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49174 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cR2lO-0006eA-9L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 15:11:22 -0500 Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([209.132.183.28]:34946) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cR2lM-0006dy-Py for 25407@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 15:11:21 -0500 Received: from int-mx10.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (int-mx10.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 50AF821740; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 20:11:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.10.118.201] (ovpn-118-201.rdu2.redhat.com [10.10.118.201]) by int-mx10.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v0AKBEHe001991; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 15:11:15 -0500 Subject: Re: bug#25407: ls documentation should reflect file system atime setting To: Bernhard Voelker , 25407@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, scott.deerwester@gmail.com References: <7464c201-ef9d-9cc4-c8d7-4f1bba5b105e@cs.ucla.edu> From: Eric Blake Openpgp: url=http://people.redhat.com/eblake/eblake.gpg Organization: Red Hat, Inc. Message-ID: <35e1e279-eedc-82b4-a2ce-75aa078453eb@redhat.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 14:11:13 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Q93DQ7r0wHmPH1nUDaw5EB262LFOEdeob" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.68 on 10.5.11.23 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.5.16 (mx1.redhat.com [10.5.110.28]); Tue, 10 Jan 2017 20:11:16 +0000 (UTC) X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25407 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --Q93DQ7r0wHmPH1nUDaw5EB262LFOEdeob Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="fJsmTCbJTbBvMlpnAM9ak5FPmw96TJDrw"; protected-headers="v1" From: Eric Blake To: Bernhard Voelker , 25407@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, scott.deerwester@gmail.com Message-ID: <35e1e279-eedc-82b4-a2ce-75aa078453eb@redhat.com> Subject: Re: bug#25407: ls documentation should reflect file system atime setting References: <7464c201-ef9d-9cc4-c8d7-4f1bba5b105e@cs.ucla.edu> In-Reply-To: --fJsmTCbJTbBvMlpnAM9ak5FPmw96TJDrw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 01/10/2017 01:11 PM, Bernhard Voelker wrote: > On 01/10/2017 12:18 AM, Paul Eggert wrote: >> Instead, I documented it in the coreutils manual (which is the primary= >> documentation for 'ls' anyway) by installing the attached. The first >> patch is a minor cleanup, the second the real doc change. > I like it, although I'd avoid to place such a general description (simi= lar > to the node "File permissions") in the middle of the utility chapters. > The attached fixes this - okay to push? Works for me. > -Standard POSIX files have three timestamps: the access timestamp > -(atime) of the last read, the modification timestamp (mtime) of the > -last write, and the status change timestamp (ctime) of the last change= > -to the the file's meta-information. Some file systems support a > +@node File timestamps > +@chapter File timestamps > + > +@cindex atime > +@cindex birthtime > +@cindex ctime > +@cindex mtime > +Standard POSIX files have three timestamps: the access timestamp > +(atime) of the last read, the modification timestamp (mtime) of the > +last write, and the status change timestamp (ctime) of the last change= > +to the the file's meta-information. Some file systems support a Please fix the double 'the the' while moving, if I don't beat you to it on my end, since syntax-check also flags that. --=20 Eric Blake eblake redhat com +1-919-301-3266 Libvirt virtualization library http://libvirt.org --fJsmTCbJTbBvMlpnAM9ak5FPmw96TJDrw-- --Q93DQ7r0wHmPH1nUDaw5EB262LFOEdeob Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 Comment: Public key at http://people.redhat.com/eblake/eblake.gpg Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJYdT/hAAoJEKeha0olJ0Nq5WsIAJz3Kg+J51kyQ8D42aI342Z9 bg2SZWWdIspDYzB99bMISBe5l+jDD0dNAl9os7JUKsaN7kjL9oaz0A27ciKKuuuq Jm3xVCHj2nTgStsla0b7JCUjI2FiKC/XgZuPfGByrjpN2vC0ZRJ6EPrtbxY5WLTR PSa2PKYUKYCbE4nG9X3kfDWcK5o2XvQPP/qykKfduy9RxXYzCAE/lXIhIsg3WPPs yZD3Qs2nEahGnc1fKZpFASikwkfRrzUmqBiuXsQnhrN14l0xGN80kXJxlZTa7tcF yHAytAZOj5NOCHVcem+tpL/N2JdxKP7nM1y8ya7MN5jGrHU/7Cf9/6NaPArXvBQ= =xP5K -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Q93DQ7r0wHmPH1nUDaw5EB262LFOEdeob-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 10 15:30:54 2017 Received: (at 25407) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jan 2017 20:30:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49179 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cR34H-0007Cx-UV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 15:30:54 -0500 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:52094) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cR34G-0007Cj-Df for 25407@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 15:30:52 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FD311600EA; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 12:30:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id s_4_3obzd8VB; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 12:30:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA350160123; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 12:30:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id fm0BVEHBiJxG; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 12:30:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B28DD1600EA; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 12:30:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: bug#25407: ls documentation should reflect file system atime setting To: Bernhard Voelker , 25407@debbugs.gnu.org, scott.deerwester@gmail.com References: <7464c201-ef9d-9cc4-c8d7-4f1bba5b105e@cs.ucla.edu> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 12:30:41 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -3.2 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25407 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.2 (---) On 01/10/2017 11:11 AM, Bernhard Voelker wrote: > okay to push? Sure, that sounds fine, and thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 10 16:12:32 2017 Received: (at 25407) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jan 2017 21:12:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49194 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cR3iZ-0008G3-Oi for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 16:12:31 -0500 Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([209.132.183.28]:59828) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cR3iX-0008Fo-Kd for 25407@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 16:12:30 -0500 Received: from int-mx14.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (int-mx14.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BBAA281231; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 21:12:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.10.118.201] (ovpn-118-201.rdu2.redhat.com [10.10.118.201]) by int-mx14.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v0ALCNKR020642; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 16:12:23 -0500 Subject: Re: bug#25407: ls documentation should reflect file system atime setting To: Bernhard Voelker , 25407@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, scott.deerwester@gmail.com References: <7464c201-ef9d-9cc4-c8d7-4f1bba5b105e@cs.ucla.edu> <33ef3658-8448-313d-279f-26b35430fd23@redhat.com> <9c8ce532-73cd-35b2-31e0-9b5c60953b3d@redhat.com> From: Eric Blake Openpgp: url=http://people.redhat.com/eblake/eblake.gpg Organization: Red Hat, Inc. Message-ID: <582e04aa-cc0b-7248-6f14-32638c4a3f35@redhat.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 15:12:21 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="n4jrwE7nkuTrkafTFBJpqNDCC8uUiM23R" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.68 on 10.5.11.27 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.5.16 (mx1.redhat.com [10.5.110.25]); Tue, 10 Jan 2017 21:12:25 +0000 (UTC) X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25407 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --n4jrwE7nkuTrkafTFBJpqNDCC8uUiM23R Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="s6XhH5WOtUX3A6CbPRsdu2WPLXBhX0ROS"; protected-headers="v1" From: Eric Blake To: Bernhard Voelker , 25407@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, scott.deerwester@gmail.com Message-ID: <582e04aa-cc0b-7248-6f14-32638c4a3f35@redhat.com> Subject: Re: bug#25407: ls documentation should reflect file system atime setting References: <7464c201-ef9d-9cc4-c8d7-4f1bba5b105e@cs.ucla.edu> <33ef3658-8448-313d-279f-26b35430fd23@redhat.com> <9c8ce532-73cd-35b2-31e0-9b5c60953b3d@redhat.com> In-Reply-To: --s6XhH5WOtUX3A6CbPRsdu2WPLXBhX0ROS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 01/10/2017 02:02 PM, Eric Blake wrote: > On 01/10/2017 01:54 PM, Eric Blake wrote: >=20 >> But I haven't pushed it, since I'm still getting other unrelated >> syntax-check failures: >> >> $ make syntax-check >> ... >> gitignore_missing >> /lib/Makefile >> maint.mk: Add above entries to .gitignore >> cfg.mk:781: recipe for target 'sc_gitignore_missing' failed >=20 > This looks like a false positive: top-level .gitignore includes > 'Makefile', which matches ALL files named Makefile at any depth > throughout the tree, and thus lib/Makefile does not need to be > additionally called out for being ignored. >=20 > I'm not sure if this is because I've built incrementally in a tree over= > a long period of time, and now gnulib-tool is creating (but not > modifying) .gitignore in a different manner than it used to. I'm trying= > a fresh clone to see if it reproduces from a clean environment. A fresh clone does not suffer from the same problem, so it may be something that has changed in gnulib-tool in the meantime. I didn't feel like bisecting it, though, since I couldn't easily reproduce it. I've gone ahead and pushed the syntax-check fix (both the NEWS hash and the doubled 'the'). --=20 Eric Blake eblake redhat com +1-919-301-3266 Libvirt virtualization library http://libvirt.org --s6XhH5WOtUX3A6CbPRsdu2WPLXBhX0ROS-- --n4jrwE7nkuTrkafTFBJpqNDCC8uUiM23R Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 Comment: Public key at http://people.redhat.com/eblake/eblake.gpg Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJYdU41AAoJEKeha0olJ0Nq7K4H/j1tHRoImMn8I5X6EjAcWlTT y7tgki6LXa89cygOBNzrJv7n4lSpm/bt84DCdv7GNJxTecjVmw+2n59sQCHXXwSj Yfq2w4WopWWZN82Lv+gtzrygVO0m8h/t1JMesbU4Hoa93rxaWdAdOdwlUjwTCTFH C5nXW1fuZzVEAYjZKn7D+gR9Z/BtauwtrWtifqMPlDlheTcmIfiGSubnAR/a0nVi 0Mg8OM5TdTEsr8IAh6OycQ1WnxHg8TtimUXjvs6nLvssQKezYvuB6GtJvxkwi6Nb YWFgRjnM2ZRTLpYjNqGxoJwttOdE5oQ/6xl+mhmlvfc9ASft/B99u8WsVKMkt2E= =DmcR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --n4jrwE7nkuTrkafTFBJpqNDCC8uUiM23R-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 10 16:19:43 2017 Received: (at 25407) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jan 2017 21:19:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49199 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cR3pX-0008S2-Ja for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 16:19:43 -0500 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([217.72.192.73]:54864) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cR3pW-0008Rm-G2 for 25407@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 16:19:43 -0500 Received: from [192.168.101.10] ([217.86.87.177]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue101 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MWRp4-1byz5d0ITi-00XeWP; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 22:19:23 +0100 Subject: Re: bug#25407: ls documentation should reflect file system atime setting To: Eric Blake , 25407@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, scott.deerwester@gmail.com References: <7464c201-ef9d-9cc4-c8d7-4f1bba5b105e@cs.ucla.edu> <35e1e279-eedc-82b4-a2ce-75aa078453eb@redhat.com> From: Bernhard Voelker Message-ID: <817d6de7-acd3-bd6f-a479-cc4d67455ab7@bernhard-voelker.de> Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 22:19:20 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <35e1e279-eedc-82b4-a2ce-75aa078453eb@redhat.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:fiI3ErRctvotZNXX4DNgc6LEaoldnEuFsq7wkyzylrYTzumVHR+ BPhce+vwAAtN59MHW1PrgMT7EpJhv4bn99OU/SkqSTrW5R36S0iSar2kIM8gmqdIoKEBx9h fXRIIG7JsRY69Y3YUhxs7S/ptBdVR7wFHgT6zUMfyfVgZNGewZZPXfdvWy9OUPtMtKGPSdZ 5xRN18tIIbQD35Rcj4Ljg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:C5dykeYU/sw=:UKGhiysN4H1aUiecmgo5Rm jDdfOvKLd1dKdk3dhImzzEIUT29F1K78YUkUaEu7BHoHMvs8uqqWB/bx+DiOT0afDmKB1WruC 6OTcANrcmqETawD5/NPzUxPpNoTtL5p4KbjPw/Sr/cSXmvJ1sci0GjJVvTXefk6n4v6KH1IV5 rbXV3SmXm5DyUJiVtvuuY6W3IKDV5Tpqpv/NDNzQ7alrbi2SEH+9xhutPozKeFNbGqtlBPoIH tz9KhSKMUh07V5rMWGQUZWXUqk3q281fkaFUU+wFNT3a1s4C9+BCIdkmiTxm2kRa9Pqv3yCpY xB5lHbnDV8syiuE6jl5nRmbKh8QhUEA4PzQYmeoa2+tyn6vdIlH8bTTKbtv9bVlzdNethq9gw d6/Gcg5Gxjn/0ixZUx40hMGvvE+6NbtARrTlyzm0gkXuCusopmbIyrcYGP00WYXuNKge3kMZV LXOXVOCtGPqzrZmsiOTc4CEgdRQKS0gvA3nbKslg+ptgBZv5AO+FfX9ea9BULOVP6ZnAaZ6Ms T87GyI/4unUnp/hwrHlkWt1kPkC6CraS+qtjShYZYmrFaVI7+u/Z9s4wJjdt8RH7ysW7T/3Si taatkSzIOuToZfjm0qPsFt5D5UZDlwrI9FbO4Ln7u6iSsg4+cQqAx6primtNdR3fUBalOGhH9 NKYH1Pm2oSuaaSU9c5NZfG97aUGY1joyJpSVAaXV8a36HcinFt1fHkj/bEBaVy1afFcpLS7hh u26+4Acm0l8ZrbFk X-Spam-Score: -1.2 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25407 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.2 (-) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 01/10/2017 09:11 PM, Eric Blake wrote: > Please fix the double 'the the' while moving, if I don't beat you to it on my end, since syntax-check also flags > that. Thanks for the review. As you already fixed the sc_prohibit_doubled_word failure, I've pushed as-is. Have a nice day, Berny -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJYdU/YAAoJEEZQLveWkXGVH1IH/3sM0MEHm1jt9E2+2XLErrQd hjx4tiWbHMd2iCL683zZyqDQnT7RQtpDfppKnrP8UBCyBJkxLdnLAMy9Xa0qywG5 BE73cPkrens71DNsc26Jnu7k6nEROB3fTKP9aQ1dsFDkjdMWtJmXo4UzwTvK34P2 3RqJZliKVSxHpFXxP8al4lU+Alibzu5v3CcJix9uITZPzmft6BQu62l/KZr/NyIP 3D3+KFLjV/DjcIf6k+GNUtCEkv1s7pfXBVPU5d4FAiVSqfCrbOMauAwSOLNNEvDu N69+ToUDfw9mRSjflWg7s4jju+TSMtd/EQqcm5ZnI0dLyhfmuo0B7sMqyZSwlYY= =rBgU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From unknown Sun Jun 22 11:31:11 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2017 12:24:03 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator