From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:11:54 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#25357: 25.1; Doc for `cursor-sensor-mode' (and modes generally) Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2017 17:46:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 25357 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 25357@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.148355190814641 (code B ref -1); Wed, 04 Jan 2017 17:46:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jan 2017 17:45:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41379 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cOpcZ-0003o4-V4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 12:45:08 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:44476) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cOpcV-0003n1-Km for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 12:45:04 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cOpcP-0008Be-O6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 12:44:58 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:54656) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cOpcP-0008BQ-JS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 12:44:57 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35440) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cOpcO-0003hI-IT for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 12:44:57 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cOpcL-00088h-Fi for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 12:44:56 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:42364) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cOpcL-00085P-5M for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 12:44:53 -0500 Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id v04HinX8017284 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 4 Jan 2017 17:44:50 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v04HimRE024360 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 4 Jan 2017 17:44:49 GMT Received: from abhmp0018.oracle.com (abhmp0018.oracle.com [141.146.116.24]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v04HikkP028831 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 2017 17:44:47 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 09:44:45 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) The doc string does not say anything about the argument, ARG. It should tell you what it means/does when the function is called from Lisp - IOW, ho= w to use it. More generally, I do not see, in either the Emacs or the Elisp manuals, anywhere where we explain the argument to a major mode, telling you how to turn the mode on/off from Lisp. Maybe I didn't search well enough? In GNU Emacs 25.1.1 (x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2016-09-17 built on LAPHROAIG Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: 'configure --without-dbus --without-compress-install CFLAGS=3D-static' From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:11:54 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#25357: 25.1; Doc for `cursor-sensor-mode' (and modes generally) Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2017 18:00:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 25357 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 25357@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 25357-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B25357.148355274615899 (code B ref 25357); Wed, 04 Jan 2017 18:00:02 +0000 Received: (at 25357) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jan 2017 17:59:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41389 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cOpq5-00048N-RO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 12:59:06 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:48382) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cOpq4-00047t-OJ for 25357@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 12:59:04 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cOppu-0001hX-Ga for 25357@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 12:58:59 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:46535) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cOppu-0001gJ-Ck; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 12:58:54 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3673 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1cOppt-00027M-Kf; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 12:58:54 -0500 Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2017 19:59:07 +0200 Message-Id: <83o9zmemfo.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: (message from Drew Adams on Wed, 4 Jan 2017 09:44:45 -0800 (PST)) References: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) > Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 09:44:45 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > > More generally, I do not see, in either the Emacs or the Elisp manuals, > anywhere where we explain the argument to a major mode, telling you how > to turn the mode on/off from Lisp. It's mentioned in "Minor Modes" in the user manual. From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:11:54 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#25357: 25.1; Doc for `cursor-sensor-mode' (and modes generally) Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2017 18:06:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 25357 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: drew.adams@oracle.com Cc: 25357@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 25357-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B25357.148355315516562 (code B ref 25357); Wed, 04 Jan 2017 18:06:02 +0000 Received: (at 25357) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jan 2017 18:05:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41393 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cOpwh-0004J4-Ij for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 13:05:55 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:50479) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cOpwf-0004Ip-K7 for 25357@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 13:05:54 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cOpwW-0000Ih-H7 for 25357@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 13:05:48 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:46652) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cOpwW-0000IW-8c; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 13:05:44 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3685 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1cOpwT-0006Du-Iq; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 13:05:44 -0500 Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2017 20:05:42 +0200 Message-Id: <83mvf6em4p.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <83o9zmemfo.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Wed, 04 Jan 2017 19:59:07 +0200) References: <83o9zmemfo.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) > Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2017 19:59:07 +0200 > From: Eli Zaretskii > Cc: 25357@debbugs.gnu.org > > > Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 09:44:45 -0800 (PST) > > From: Drew Adams > > > > More generally, I do not see, in either the Emacs or the Elisp manuals, > > anywhere where we explain the argument to a major mode, telling you how > > to turn the mode on/off from Lisp. > > It's mentioned in "Minor Modes" in the user manual. Also in "Minor Mode Conventions" in the ELisp manual. The corresponding "Major Mode Conventions" node could say that as well, of course. From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:11:54 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#25357: 25.1; Doc for `cursor-sensor-mode' (and modes generally) Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2017 18:08:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 25357 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Cc: 25357@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 25357-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B25357.148355324816721 (code B ref 25357); Wed, 04 Jan 2017 18:08:01 +0000 Received: (at 25357) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jan 2017 18:07:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41397 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cOpyC-0004Ld-0A for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 13:07:28 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:27390) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cOpy9-0004LO-Bj for 25357@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 13:07:26 -0500 Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id v04I7Hx5004468 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 4 Jan 2017 18:07:18 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v04I7Go2009029 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 4 Jan 2017 18:07:17 GMT Received: from abhmp0018.oracle.com (abhmp0018.oracle.com [141.146.116.24]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v04I7GrC001169; Wed, 4 Jan 2017 18:07:16 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <9ad8b225-73da-4533-a676-b0f8e84e54ca@default> Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 10:07:14 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <> <<83o9zmemfo.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83o9zmemfo.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-Spam-Score: -6.7 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.7 (------) > > More generally, I do not see, in either the Emacs or the Elisp manuals, > > anywhere where we explain the argument to a major mode, telling you how > > to turn the mode on/off from Lisp. >=20 > It's mentioned in "Minor Modes" in the user manual. But it's a major mode... I tried `i' for major mode etc. From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:11:54 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#25357: 25.1; Doc for `cursor-sensor-mode' (and modes generally) Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2017 18:09:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 25357 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii , drew.adams@oracle.com Cc: 25357@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 25357-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B25357.148355332716858 (code B ref 25357); Wed, 04 Jan 2017 18:09:02 +0000 Received: (at 25357) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jan 2017 18:08:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41401 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cOpzT-0004Nq-AZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 13:08:47 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:23918) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cOpzS-0004Nd-3x for 25357@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 13:08:46 -0500 Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id v04I8diC016824 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 4 Jan 2017 18:08:39 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v04I8cfc007563 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 4 Jan 2017 18:08:39 GMT Received: from abhmp0018.oracle.com (abhmp0018.oracle.com [141.146.116.24]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v04I8cQH022560; Wed, 4 Jan 2017 18:08:38 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 10:08:37 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <> <<83o9zmemfo.fsf@gnu.org>> <<83mvf6em4p.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83mvf6em4p.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-Spam-Score: -6.7 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.7 (------) > > > More generally, I do not see, in either the Emacs or the Elisp manual= s, > > > anywhere where we explain the argument to a major mode, telling you h= ow > > > to turn the mode on/off from Lisp. > > > > It's mentioned in "Minor Modes" in the user manual. >=20 > Also in "Minor Mode Conventions" in the ELisp manual. The > corresponding "Major Mode Conventions" node could say that as well, of > course. It's not a convention in the sense that the other content there describes conventions. Those are conventions for writing, not using, a major mode. It should be explained in both manuals, I think, how to turn on/off a major mode using Lisp. From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:11:54 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#25357: 25.1; Doc for `cursor-sensor-mode' (and modes generally) Resent-From: Noam Postavsky Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2017 18:57:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 25357 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 25357@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 25357-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B25357.148355617521168 (code B ref 25357); Wed, 04 Jan 2017 18:57:01 +0000 Received: (at 25357) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jan 2017 18:56:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41413 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cOqjP-0005VM-GW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 13:56:15 -0500 Received: from mail-oi0-f48.google.com ([209.85.218.48]:32821) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cOqjO-0005V7-5w for 25357@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 13:56:14 -0500 Received: by mail-oi0-f48.google.com with SMTP id 128so358904985oig.0 for <25357@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 10:56:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=4wzeQh7TMgcJw8XuJLdytcoERAd81GPS7t1252XDZJ0=; b=szvfFXZLgxWClKaVUYobpnG9V0uRHrt7r12Qg/gSqiCRycgb2jNQM2ueIfoZvgDSm7 +oaLLKY8y7MKky8uaE3Byvl74crUmNlxu3+gyJa4Of48+z8rgzPiKYdnnkr7BOeDn451 YH9GRtGmjomJt9aZHXdUlRvnPczj5lytPPGHZ7oSlh9IW4aItEJ+oydbyeHatR3sCmNc E6ry0Cw+IaBiRKfJK/X+pHk1X5A2e31djkPzH6U0hERpj9FY8I635elzh/+3Os8dEa2F WfQiNtG55hGEhc02ZaN3Vjt+nbhjf97YW55QekViRP5ZaXMQsWOu0wRzV7NYg/lV97AH mShg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=4wzeQh7TMgcJw8XuJLdytcoERAd81GPS7t1252XDZJ0=; b=t82RQtt+s0uCS2ITcTzEKqvfSGQnGyzTZVvnggJwqZcl1DQb1sjHL11zBRsUC5wPzS MqfjumjzCmkESJd4AjNGsSD0Bf5PHgAtCweX/+6i4wVYCOYe+10HPlMD2R51CbQmtt0d exYk5VfdQVxnVnric5g/sOE2yVgL3P1g2yGeatJrT1hVHZwaLOuNrLipkvnDgHFTicDf 1xZy06K+o65RePlAXQN0uW9cJImEqMGR01yAYETgbj6WOYo5OLOIRxuxh4kOu5/HR/1l E2rnYs+qQBY+ggwh7JecFKKaDO/+3bonWyU2aYh36tL/nWjvzpxFvBGB3HAHmIdhu2Z5 7ZUg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXIyFxk+MtYD7Y098U4hkkAtSTQelti1xDug5uC1PF6GDyUtaV9gSs8xlsR4+15jTiDGJRhA5/RtWnqZ3g== X-Received: by 10.157.35.98 with SMTP id k31mr29092750otd.109.1483556168478; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 10:56:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.45.104 with HTTP; Wed, 4 Jan 2017 10:56:08 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9ad8b225-73da-4533-a676-b0f8e84e54ca@default> References: <9ad8b225-73da-4533-a676-b0f8e84e54ca@default> From: Noam Postavsky Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 13:56:08 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: DjqQ9QlvhAVKYHpJYKpXBK_BU_k Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 1:07 PM, Drew Adams wrote: >> > More generally, I do not see, in either the Emacs or the Elisp manuals, >> > anywhere where we explain the argument to a major mode, telling you how >> > to turn the mode on/off from Lisp. >> >> It's mentioned in "Minor Modes" in the user manual. > > But it's a major mode... I tried `i' for major mode etc. > Why do you think it's a major mode? cursor-sensor.el has: (define-minor-mode cursor-sensor-mode ... From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:11:54 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#25357: 25.1; Doc for `cursor-sensor-mode' (and modes generally) Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2017 19:07:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 25357 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Noam Postavsky Cc: 25357@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 25357-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B25357.148355678322136 (code B ref 25357); Wed, 04 Jan 2017 19:07:01 +0000 Received: (at 25357) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jan 2017 19:06:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41417 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cOqtD-0005ky-Ff for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 14:06:23 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:25644) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cOqtA-0005kd-EW for 25357@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 14:06:20 -0500 Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id v04J6CFC032247 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 4 Jan 2017 19:06:13 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v04J6CL6006237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 4 Jan 2017 19:06:12 GMT Received: from abhmp0018.oracle.com (abhmp0018.oracle.com [141.146.116.24]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v04J6Bb3010328; Wed, 4 Jan 2017 19:06:11 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 11:06:10 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <9ad8b225-73da-4533-a676-b0f8e84e54ca@default> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-Spam-Score: -6.7 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.7 (------) > >> > More generally, I do not see, in either the Emacs or the Elisp manua= ls, > >> > anywhere where we explain the argument to a major mode, telling you = how > >> > to turn the mode on/off from Lisp. > >> > >> It's mentioned in "Minor Modes" in the user manual. > > > > But it's a major mode... I tried `i' for major mode etc. >=20 > Why do you think it's a major mode? cursor-sensor.el has: > (define-minor-mode cursor-sensor-mode ... In that case, there are two bugs: 1. The doc string should say that it is a minor mode, and say how to change the value (on/off). I think this has been addressed by bug #20462. 2. (This bug) The manuals should document how to turn on/off a major mode using Lisp. Please retitle this bug appropriately. Sorry if this mode is not an example of a major mode. From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:11:54 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#25357: 25.1; Doc for `cursor-sensor-mode' (and modes generally) Resent-From: Noam Postavsky Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2017 19:28:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 25357 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 25357@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 25357-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B25357.148355806624087 (code B ref 25357); Wed, 04 Jan 2017 19:28:01 +0000 Received: (at 25357) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jan 2017 19:27:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41430 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cOrDt-0006GR-RR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 14:27:46 -0500 Received: from mail-oi0-f65.google.com ([209.85.218.65]:33608) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cOrDs-0006GF-JQ for 25357@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 14:27:44 -0500 Received: by mail-oi0-f65.google.com with SMTP id f201so76118900oib.0 for <25357@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 11:27:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=2mvf+L1sDd75CvKi7CCGNOH659dWYta7Uyo4y2AooaM=; b=o1KKGxQVwAMyVsO97wUrF5vXuNH4CoUJuiXAQC9bp+jmPotoAqqD4RL6HfZgmLYtY3 MxzcaMMs4y1mGqwjdVgL5wdkSY4fjb1sx58qG8LlRYgVVYnLeUj7dIYIfRxSE9DoFjzd QE5wTgNMSM+/Q+DifX7UMX+UXzsP9EvAlWLdVtAeXiJ7Mf3gxRvDyERxrUN4aYCAMdGe NpaWiq1H422LX7f0C6og5sXUkPL8eGwD1oxhiLnBMhqshN7bsh66bbikPcxwaczjR7RJ py/FBWSNkKKWXUAfxuxxO6VvPSQ3wJOH32mmDGCk9UXTRcbAV21mVoHphtLXEHExNHzh rVbQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=2mvf+L1sDd75CvKi7CCGNOH659dWYta7Uyo4y2AooaM=; b=OVVyFsxnlGr5FanEyW3bOxippdkuOx2EgbInqKufny99bBhKHl2sPldCbiaWgxdDha MKhADBUjiYB4zpqW0ruduQAUvh3h+lY5QCbHHbi9khFhU2acT8fX8YgvGzVjYDH1Q5uP 5uj2f/M8mTp38awInPKxILcpfMUqjMUMH3/UyCBJLyenUAimCgeOfbCFox86CwPFyeG+ 4RYMb6QG5+gK4xZU4K+OnQLgEDCCpSAXa0CfP+gEWghHYpikdM4ENXv3lVnSzCg4pbuI /AoQ6BxFSOp1i8LuKMbFlxX97nHbSok/BaNAumBmojRJniJOHNeTfGAmGfs8v9Pzwzs1 WUeQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXIBZ9QVuMnqztG3XW17YoTEKsZnXiw7X0c1xDsF8yczF9asAcfTM738CnMmcqP9yjQEhaqv0nyFaopB8A== X-Received: by 10.202.63.65 with SMTP id m62mr33740678oia.167.1483558058865; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 11:27:38 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.45.104 with HTTP; Wed, 4 Jan 2017 11:27:38 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <9ad8b225-73da-4533-a676-b0f8e84e54ca@default> From: Noam Postavsky Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 14:27:38 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: r96OB3cxBNLOjxOJ6Hieum5HeLA Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 2:06 PM, Drew Adams wrote: > > 1. The doc string should say that it is a minor mode, and say how > to change the value (on/off). I think this has been addressed by > bug #20462. I agree. > > 2. (This bug) The manuals should document how to turn on/off a major mode > using Lisp. Please retitle this bug appropriately. `(emacs) Major Modes' says You can explicitly select a new major mode by using an M-x command. Take the name of the mode and add -mode to get the name of the command to select that mode (e.g., M-x lisp-mode enters Lisp mode). Do you really think it's necessary to explain here how evaluating (foo-mode) is equivalent to running M-x foo-mode? `(elisp) Major Modes' says Major modes specialize Emacs for editing particular kinds of text. Each buffer has one major mode at a time. Every major mode is associated with a major mode command, whose name should end in =E2=80=98-mode=E2=80=99. This command takes care of switching to that mode = in the current buffer Do you really think it's necessary to explain how to call a command from elisp here? The first hit in the index for `command' gives command An object which can be invoked via the command-execute primitive, usually due to the user typing in a key sequence bound to that command. See Interactive Call. A command is usually a function; if the function is written in Lisp, it is made into a command by an interactive form in the function definition (see Defining Commands). Commands that are functions can also be called from Lisp expressions, just like other functions. From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:11:54 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#25357: 25.1; Doc for `cursor-sensor-mode' (and modes generally) Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2017 21:03:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 25357 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Noam Postavsky Cc: 25357@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 25357-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B25357.1483563778946 (code B ref 25357); Wed, 04 Jan 2017 21:03:02 +0000 Received: (at 25357) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jan 2017 21:02:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41498 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cOsi1-0000FC-QK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 16:02:58 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:30256) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cOshy-0000Ev-DZ for 25357@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 16:02:56 -0500 Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id v04L2k0e010513 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 4 Jan 2017 21:02:47 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v04L2kND014028 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 4 Jan 2017 21:02:46 GMT Received: from abhmp0018.oracle.com (abhmp0018.oracle.com [141.146.116.24]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v04L2iih006144; Wed, 4 Jan 2017 21:02:45 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 13:02:42 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <9ad8b225-73da-4533-a676-b0f8e84e54ca@default> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-Spam-Score: -6.7 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.7 (------) > > 2. (This bug) The manuals should document how to turn on/off a major mo= de > > using Lisp. Please retitle this bug appropriately. >=20 > `(emacs) Major Modes' says >=20 > You can explicitly select a new major mode by using an M-x > command. Take the name of the mode and add -mode to get the name of > the command to select that mode (e.g., M-x lisp-mode enters Lisp > mode). >=20 > Do you really think it's necessary to explain here how evaluating > (foo-mode) is equivalent to running M-x foo-mode? Yes, absolutely I do. And how to turn it OFF using Lisp. Yes, the answer is to just turn on some other major mode. But how are users to know that if we don't tell them? http://emacs.stackexchange.com/q/29813/105 > `(elisp) Major Modes' says >=20 > Major modes specialize Emacs for editing particular kinds of text. > Each buffer has one major mode at a time. Every major mode is > associated with a major mode command, whose name should end in > =E2=80=98-mode=E2=80=99. This command takes care of switching to that mod= e in the > current buffer I even think it would help to emphasize that "one" - not zero. IOW, you cannot turn off a major mode without turning on another one. > Do you really think it's necessary to explain how to call a command > from elisp here? The first hit in the index for `command' gives >=20 > command >=20 > An object which can be invoked via the command-execute primitive, > usually due to the user typing in a key sequence bound to that > command. See Interactive Call. A command is usually a function; if the > function is written in Lisp, it is made into a command by an > interactive form in the function definition (see Defining Commands). > Commands that are functions can also be called from Lisp expressions, > just like other functions. Yes, I do think it's necessary - see above. It is sufficient to explain this once (in each manual, I think - or at least cross-reference the Elisp explanation from the Emacs manual). I don't think it is ever really explained anywhere. And the way minor and major modes work in this regard is quite different. There is always some major mode that is "on" - only one at a time. There can be many minor modes that are on at the same time. It will already help a lot if the doc strings of modes make clear whether a mode is a major or a minor mode. From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:11:54 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#25357: 25.1; Doc for `cursor-sensor-mode' (and modes generally) Resent-From: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2017 03:45:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 25357 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 25357@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 25357-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B25357.148358786410385 (code B ref 25357); Thu, 05 Jan 2017 03:45:01 +0000 Received: (at 25357) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jan 2017 03:44:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41641 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cOyyW-0002hR-8X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 22:44:24 -0500 Received: from mail-io0-f174.google.com ([209.85.223.174]:32978) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cOyyT-0002hE-GJ for 25357@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 22:44:21 -0500 Received: by mail-io0-f174.google.com with SMTP id v96so65670ioi.0 for <25357@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 19:44:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=ZD53WptVQqerUPtnTmMvE4P2DIpKHSA2wBiCPmRfhcY=; b=YXJN1QktGMfPQw512JihA9FKx65uVtIKBs0K4otJvm203d3rsYT0wf7sw5hyM7cyVH YwtYHDux7frFJxh1xYuc89L/9dT0jx+JpAXsYC78G8o76M5dTIVNC6EtNbsFX84ijIiP 1yByKWIdD3Qd36VxFi754J4OH/S2G5IoL2t6L7abEO5woiE+7Wjc0spxllecLljdhy9b SQxmH+evpAV3aHg6aq4e4s7gW4tmkyqTr+nHg/wh8KXe+2ZCGGlNgGPWSOm+wJ2CW7ii zufLxnQ32Shc0jFi/+LSKY4cH6N7kcSDK/veJve7aYejUqNMNzM1cmV5Y9MnMLh6ySwF Rheg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date :in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=ZD53WptVQqerUPtnTmMvE4P2DIpKHSA2wBiCPmRfhcY=; b=ZEBHEqiGxYcZZdYLly4WIknAk9uxuvH09F4QzL8mGnoDvRn0+UJOMX96U70wDJYVHf D9RkpB8HoiS9I8+r+hHX4qv+v4qvhKP9h0J0qCoMxHBcVYa5VgmMzDQmPrsvp6SJWE4D v0cWmI9GdN6SeJsokHZAKz7By7E1Ym5U7cj9/0xZgGjZ9kdU/6OCuq1HBt2f/qlQWor4 wsdwYvDSEqLaI30RUvUg+VJRTPMjgfqP/jNO+VPY4DpA/FOK9JDvVgdu4mNfjbewMet0 nPxq9GHGUaaczyxVsVEe0HDPxJxrRgmtiWvBIUNPq+85ELlK3vZfJ3d+Mx1zYEDtFM99 ruew== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXINPOQxzOoen2ygrKirShaKT6G2OxyQ4dLBKqOGBM1yJa1H6wjDjsAsDgvu3dNShQ== X-Received: by 10.107.17.101 with SMTP id z98mr17426040ioi.226.1483587855950; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 19:44:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from zony ([45.2.7.65]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id 9sm38515429itv.0.2017.01.04.19.44.14 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Wed, 04 Jan 2017 19:44:14 -0800 (PST) From: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net References: <9ad8b225-73da-4533-a676-b0f8e84e54ca@default> Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2017 22:45:17 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Wed, 4 Jan 2017 13:02:42 -0800 (PST)") Message-ID: <878tqq5fw2.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Drew Adams writes: > > I even think it would help to emphasize that "one" - not zero. > IOW, you cannot turn off a major mode without turning on another one. Sure, here's a patch to the manuals to clarify that. I don't think explaining about the relationship between M-x and Lisp functions again is needed though. --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-diff Content-Disposition: inline; filename=0001-Clarify-major-mode-switching.patch Content-Description: patch >From ebea8363cc02fded1a98d0fffcda460faee9e72d Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Noam Postavsky Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 20:35:13 -0500 Subject: [PATCH] Clarify major mode switching * doc/emacs/modes.texi (Major Modes): * doc/lispref/modes.texi (Modes, Major Modes): Explictly say that each buffer has exactly one major mode and can't be "turned off", only switched away from (Bug#25357). --- doc/emacs/modes.texi | 5 ++++- doc/lispref/modes.texi | 20 +++++++++++--------- 2 files changed, 15 insertions(+), 10 deletions(-) diff --git a/doc/emacs/modes.texi b/doc/emacs/modes.texi index 0acb82d..6b8bd92 100644 --- a/doc/emacs/modes.texi +++ b/doc/emacs/modes.texi @@ -66,7 +66,10 @@ Major Modes first visit a file or create a buffer (@pxref{Choosing Modes}). You can explicitly select a new major mode by using an @kbd{M-x} command. Take the name of the mode and add @code{-mode} to get the name of the -command to select that mode (e.g., @kbd{M-x lisp-mode} enters Lisp mode). +command to select that mode (e.g., @kbd{M-x lisp-mode} enters Lisp +mode). Since every buffer has exactly one major mode, there is no way +to ``turn off'' a major mode, instead you must switch to a different +one. @vindex major-mode The value of the buffer-local variable @code{major-mode} is a symbol diff --git a/doc/lispref/modes.texi b/doc/lispref/modes.texi index b24ab36..3704e03 100644 --- a/doc/lispref/modes.texi +++ b/doc/lispref/modes.texi @@ -7,11 +7,11 @@ Modes @chapter Major and Minor Modes @cindex mode - A @dfn{mode} is a set of definitions that customize Emacs and can be -turned on and off while you edit. There are two varieties of modes: -@dfn{major modes}, which are mutually exclusive and used for editing -particular kinds of text, and @dfn{minor modes}, which provide features -that users can enable individually. + A @dfn{mode} is a set of definitions that customize Emacs' behavior +in useful ways. There are two varieties of modes: @dfn{minor modes}, +which provide features that users can turn on and off while editing. +And @dfn{major modes}, which are used for editing a particular kind of +text. Each buffer has exactly one @dfn{major mode}. This chapter describes how to write both major and minor modes, how to indicate them in the mode line, and how they run hooks supplied by the @@ -197,11 +197,13 @@ Major Modes @cindex major mode command Major modes specialize Emacs for editing particular kinds of text. -Each buffer has one major mode at a time. Every major mode is +Each buffer has exactly one major mode at a time. Every major mode is associated with a @dfn{major mode command}, whose name should end in -@samp{-mode}. This command takes care of switching to that mode in the -current buffer, by setting various buffer-local variables such as a -local keymap. @xref{Major Mode Conventions}. +@samp{-mode}. This command takes care of switching to that mode in +the current buffer, by setting various buffer-local variables such as +a local keymap. @xref{Major Mode Conventions}. Note that unlike +minor modes, the only way to ``turn off'' a major mode is to switch to +a different one. The least specialized major mode is called @dfn{Fundamental mode}, which has no mode-specific definitions or variable settings. -- 2.9.3 --=-=-=-- From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:11:54 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#25357: 25.1; Doc for `cursor-sensor-mode' (and modes generally) Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2017 04:30:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 25357 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net Cc: 25357@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 25357-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B25357.148359056114596 (code B ref 25357); Thu, 05 Jan 2017 04:30:03 +0000 Received: (at 25357) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jan 2017 04:29:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41663 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cOzg0-0003nM-Pp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 23:29:20 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:27239) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cOzfz-0003n9-Gr for 25357@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2017 23:29:20 -0500 Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id v054TB6S018019 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 5 Jan 2017 04:29:12 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v054TBmD023724 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 5 Jan 2017 04:29:11 GMT Received: from abhmp0018.oracle.com (abhmp0018.oracle.com [141.146.116.24]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v054T9KT001653; Thu, 5 Jan 2017 04:29:10 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <678f8299-e6e8-4b08-a412-bf367194f6d7@default> Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 20:29:08 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <9ad8b225-73da-4533-a676-b0f8e84e54ca@default> <878tqq5fw2.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> In-Reply-To: <878tqq5fw2.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-Spam-Score: -6.7 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.7 (------) > > I even think it would help to emphasize that "one" - not zero. > > IOW, you cannot turn off a major mode without turning on another one. >=20 > Sure, here's a patch to the manuals to clarify that. Thanks. Some minor comments. If they help, fine; if not, ignore. One not-so-minor comment, flagged by ** (in two places). --- The comma here should be a semicolon (or use two sentences); otherwise it is a comma splice: ``turn off'' a major mode, instead you must switch ; > I don't think explaining about the relationship between M-x and > Lisp functions again is needed though. ** How so, "again"? Here we are telling someone how to turn it on interactively. I think we should also tell them how to do it using Lisp. Or at least cross-reference some Elisp manual reference doc that tells you that you "turn on" a major mode by calling the function with no arguments. Examples where you add a major-mode function as a normal hook imply that (no args), but it would be good to spell it out once. Here, I would drop the apostrophe - not needed: definitions that customize Emacs' behavior Here, I would say for a particular kind of editing or interaction: used for editing a particular kind of text (Not all modes are for editing, in the usually understood sense.) Here, I would append "at a time". Each buffer has exactly one @dfn{major mode}. Otherwise it sounds like the mode-buffer association is fixed. For this: Major modes specialize Emacs for editing particular kinds of text. see above. We should not give the impression that a major mode is only for editing. `Info-mode' is not an editing mode (in the usual sense), for example. (Yes, I know that this particular text was already there.) This is OK, and I see that you put it in quotes (which is good): the only way to ``turn off'' a major mode is to switch to a different one. But it is different from what you said in the Emacs manual, where (I thought that) you specifically avoided any mention of turning a major mode on or off, and instead spoke about putting the buffer into the given mode. IOW, either we say that you CANNOT turn off (with quotes) a major mode, and INSTEAD of turning it off you switch the buffer to a different mode, or we say that THE WAY TO turn it off (with quotes) is to switch to a different mode. Those are different statements. Either is OK by me, but it might be better not to use both. ** Again, though, I think we should say explicitly somewhere (in the Elisp manual, as reference, and either linked to that or repeated in the Emacs manual) that you put a buffer into a major mode by invoking the mode function with no args. I repeat: feel free to ignore any of the above, and please make the changes you feel are best at this point. Thx. From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:11:54 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#25357: 25.1; Doc for `cursor-sensor-mode' (and modes generally) Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2017 15:29:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 25357 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net Cc: 25357@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 25357-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B25357.1483630105356 (code B ref 25357); Thu, 05 Jan 2017 15:29:02 +0000 Received: (at 25357) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jan 2017 15:28:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43975 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cP9xp-00005f-1D for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Jan 2017 10:28:25 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39823) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cP9xn-00005P-Nf for 25357@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Jan 2017 10:28:23 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cP9xe-0004Px-Lo for 25357@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Jan 2017 10:28:18 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:60295) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cP9xe-0004Pt-I3; Thu, 05 Jan 2017 10:28:14 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4898 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1cP9xd-00026D-Rl; Thu, 05 Jan 2017 10:28:14 -0500 Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2017 17:28:29 +0200 Message-Id: <83fukxedb6.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <878tqq5fw2.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> (npostavs@users.sourceforge.net) References: <9ad8b225-73da-4533-a676-b0f8e84e54ca@default> <878tqq5fw2.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) > From: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net > Cc: 25357@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii > Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2017 22:45:17 -0500 > > > I even think it would help to emphasize that "one" - not zero. > > IOW, you cannot turn off a major mode without turning on another one. > > Sure, here's a patch to the manuals to clarify that. Thanks. > + A @dfn{mode} is a set of definitions that customize Emacs' behavior > +in useful ways. There are two varieties of modes: @dfn{minor modes}, > +which provide features that users can turn on and off while editing. > +And @dfn{major modes}, which are used for editing a particular kind of > +text. I'd suggest not to start a sentence with "And". Instead, something like this should be better: @dfn{major modes}, which ...; and @dfn {minor modes}, which ... From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:11:54 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#25357: 25.1; Doc for `cursor-sensor-mode' (and modes generally) Resent-From: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2017 03:58:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 25357 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 25357@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 25357-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B25357.14836750434241 (code B ref 25357); Fri, 06 Jan 2017 03:58:01 +0000 Received: (at 25357) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jan 2017 03:57:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44226 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cPLed-00016L-99 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Jan 2017 22:57:23 -0500 Received: from mail-io0-f170.google.com ([209.85.223.170]:33399) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cPLeb-000167-18 for 25357@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Jan 2017 22:57:21 -0500 Received: by mail-io0-f170.google.com with SMTP id v96so24721883ioi.0 for <25357@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 05 Jan 2017 19:57:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=6GRgdTy8P9/v9CK2UBsySrSv+M5W0LAwdlc6EvoKqro=; b=JD/iQGiSnGMK7Lq4qg/vksrCnHrpXNdjn2t4AeKgyvWYDYWcRFTk7xEifT3VwP2aOI HVF+mcSp1jgqth53ZIA1Ethxj85rNISRBeQCFqXo48Vjs8cH2wTyKs7S8M3iO5FfvVzC 9e5l/5mTm9UKSOvQRgJq4sdUXafG5tSRK5cemm1dvMCyCB0IfSzdOY621WUfFE0imTG0 d5LOvRpxVEmBjnNPaGyVedbgD6A8xOIh6aCX1JX5/xV6IW5Rkr2UAqdTPw+fy4jdeLie XKVj5a8425CwT0katjmJbnSzP02F5hqc+36M+AYbZFFkHgc5pmZsBHjoynhV6lgqbL3q d8AQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date :in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=6GRgdTy8P9/v9CK2UBsySrSv+M5W0LAwdlc6EvoKqro=; b=sctX0tB2TV07mWKundxivZj3iBQmGvtN9wOaR+NW9h8qW8onPfLmnCwNr3iIsHV/2u iq3iDe/bXz6nQJV48i7R6ATfF9XvcHeWqXaM0OyVU1gcClFawEC/Y9geurt0oqvpD/2/ tc2eFh/vDBTelpfYZfmiQTCAb1bfP4vRsk/QbheXVWqvEwjQVVp+EWqhriKD3eupuhcT 3RKiPsi62gA2NN+vbWDyR0Flywki9WTgOLUgDzISDzneMYEw6NJwbOnHVUVx4QpmgBbh fR7+pTLCZ2BIJd8aDv1UzJq1FDOv3IT040MeAhwuNe+2mM9FdOkyPsyEd5No6uP294nL Cjxg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXKHlpbbYKkZWNolmPWaKvNNlOdRnJhsRxx2sKTi3hAj1x5i4PWPVW1sutjjyigbiA== X-Received: by 10.107.18.162 with SMTP id 34mr50249797ios.14.1483675035417; Thu, 05 Jan 2017 19:57:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from zony ([45.2.7.65]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id o65sm38606963ioe.15.2017.01.05.19.57.13 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Thu, 05 Jan 2017 19:57:14 -0800 (PST) From: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net References: <9ad8b225-73da-4533-a676-b0f8e84e54ca@default> <878tqq5fw2.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <678f8299-e6e8-4b08-a412-bf367194f6d7@default> Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2017 22:58:09 -0500 In-Reply-To: <678f8299-e6e8-4b08-a412-bf367194f6d7@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Wed, 4 Jan 2017 20:29:08 -0800 (PST)") Message-ID: <87a8b44z72.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Drew Adams writes: > > Thanks. Some minor comments. If they help, fine; if not, ignore. > One not-so-minor comment, flagged by ** (in two places). Thanks, that was helpful. > > ** How so, "again"? Here we are telling someone how to turn it > on interactively. I think we should also tell them how to do it > using Lisp. This is a subjective thing of course. I guess it seems obvious to me that a command can be called as a function, and it's explained in `(elisp) What Is a Function'. Adding cross references to that in every place we talk about invoking some command is just clutter. Eli Zaretskii writes: > I'd suggest not to start a sentence with "And". Instead, something > like this should be better: > > @dfn{major modes}, which ...; and @dfn {minor modes}, which ... Fixed this too. --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=v2-0001-Clarify-major-mode-switching.patch Content-Description: patch >From e2b2fa4cf18949f7ad4cbe17eb36b0abf7b0ad0c Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Noam Postavsky Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2017 20:35:13 -0500 Subject: [PATCH v2] Clarify major mode switching * doc/emacs/modes.texi (Major Modes): * doc/lispref/modes.texi (Modes, Major Modes): Explictly say that each buffer has exactly one major mode and can't be "turned off", only switched away from (Bug#25357). --- doc/emacs/modes.texi | 5 ++++- doc/lispref/modes.texi | 26 +++++++++++++++----------- 2 files changed, 19 insertions(+), 12 deletions(-) diff --git a/doc/emacs/modes.texi b/doc/emacs/modes.texi index 0acb82d..be89340 100644 --- a/doc/emacs/modes.texi +++ b/doc/emacs/modes.texi @@ -66,7 +66,10 @@ Major Modes first visit a file or create a buffer (@pxref{Choosing Modes}). You can explicitly select a new major mode by using an @kbd{M-x} command. Take the name of the mode and add @code{-mode} to get the name of the -command to select that mode (e.g., @kbd{M-x lisp-mode} enters Lisp mode). +command to select that mode (e.g., @kbd{M-x lisp-mode} enters Lisp +mode). Since every buffer has exactly one major mode, there is no way +to ``turn off'' a major mode; instead you must switch to a different +one. @vindex major-mode The value of the buffer-local variable @code{major-mode} is a symbol diff --git a/doc/lispref/modes.texi b/doc/lispref/modes.texi index b24ab36..0015a9f 100644 --- a/doc/lispref/modes.texi +++ b/doc/lispref/modes.texi @@ -7,11 +7,12 @@ Modes @chapter Major and Minor Modes @cindex mode - A @dfn{mode} is a set of definitions that customize Emacs and can be -turned on and off while you edit. There are two varieties of modes: -@dfn{major modes}, which are mutually exclusive and used for editing -particular kinds of text, and @dfn{minor modes}, which provide features -that users can enable individually. + A @dfn{mode} is a set of definitions that customize Emacs behavior +in useful ways. There are two varieties of modes: @dfn{minor modes}, +which provide features that users can turn on and off while editing; +and @dfn{major modes}, which are used for editing or interacting with +a particular kind of text. Each buffer has exactly one @dfn{major +mode} at a time. This chapter describes how to write both major and minor modes, how to indicate them in the mode line, and how they run hooks supplied by the @@ -196,12 +197,15 @@ Major Modes @cindex major mode @cindex major mode command - Major modes specialize Emacs for editing particular kinds of text. -Each buffer has one major mode at a time. Every major mode is -associated with a @dfn{major mode command}, whose name should end in -@samp{-mode}. This command takes care of switching to that mode in the -current buffer, by setting various buffer-local variables such as a -local keymap. @xref{Major Mode Conventions}. + Major modes specialize Emacs for editing or interacting with +particular kinds of text. Each buffer has exactly one major mode at a +time. Every major mode is associated with a @dfn{major mode command}, +whose name should end in @samp{-mode}. This command takes care of +switching to that mode in the current buffer, by setting various +buffer-local variables such as a local keymap. @xref{Major Mode +Conventions}. Note that unlike minor modes there is no way to ``turn +off'' a major mode, instead the buffer must be switched to a different +one. The least specialized major mode is called @dfn{Fundamental mode}, which has no mode-specific definitions or variable settings. -- 2.9.3 --=-=-=-- From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:11:54 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#25357: 25.1; Doc for `cursor-sensor-mode' (and modes generally) Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2017 05:51:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 25357 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net Cc: 25357@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 25357-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B25357.148368184615976 (code B ref 25357); Fri, 06 Jan 2017 05:51:02 +0000 Received: (at 25357) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jan 2017 05:50:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44249 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cPNQL-00049c-TQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 Jan 2017 00:50:46 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:49645) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cPNQJ-00049N-6W for 25357@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 Jan 2017 00:50:43 -0500 Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id v065oZUv026734 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 6 Jan 2017 05:50:36 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v065oYtM014265 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 6 Jan 2017 05:50:35 GMT Received: from abhmp0009.oracle.com (abhmp0009.oracle.com [141.146.116.15]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v065oVu0009702; Fri, 6 Jan 2017 05:50:32 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2017 21:50:29 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <9ad8b225-73da-4533-a676-b0f8e84e54ca@default> <878tqq5fw2.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <678f8299-e6e8-4b08-a412-bf367194f6d7@default> <87a8b44z72.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> In-Reply-To: <87a8b44z72.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-Spam-Score: -6.7 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.7 (------) > > ** How so, "again"? Here we are telling someone how to turn it > > on interactively. I think we should also tell them how to do it > > using Lisp. >=20 > This is a subjective thing of course. I guess it seems obvious to me > that a command can be called as a function, and it's explained in > `(elisp) What Is a Function'. Adding cross references to that in every > place we talk about invoking some command is just clutter. Yes, of course. But I don't think it is obvious to some who read the _Emacs_ manual how they might turn on a major mode using Lisp. I've seen enough people confused about this, especially given the very different way they turn on a minor mode (which is better documented, if still inadequate - see the bug about minor-mode doc strings). You may say that such users do not _need_ to invoke a major mode function from Lisp. And if they do, and they do it the usual way (for a file), they do it using `auto-mode-alist'. Still, some try to do it using `(the-mode-name ...)', passing various things as argument. They guess... I don't see anywhere in the Elisp manual a simple statement that they just need to use `(the-mode-name)'. AND that it is generally a good idea to use `auto-mode-alist' when the buffer is a file buffer. I don't feel strongly about any of this, but I do think it could help some users to lay it out explicitly. From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:11:54 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#25357: 25.1; Doc for `cursor-sensor-mode' (and modes generally) Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2017 07:58:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 25357 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 25357@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 25357-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B25357.148368946929195 (code B ref 25357); Fri, 06 Jan 2017 07:58:02 +0000 Received: (at 25357) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jan 2017 07:57:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44413 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cPPPJ-0007ao-7n for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 Jan 2017 02:57:49 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:46794) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cPPPH-0007ad-Ng for 25357@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 Jan 2017 02:57:47 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cPPP8-0001cK-C7 for 25357@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 Jan 2017 02:57:42 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:43112) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cPPP8-0001cG-8w; Fri, 06 Jan 2017 02:57:38 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4201 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1cPPP7-0001SW-BI; Fri, 06 Jan 2017 02:57:37 -0500 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2017 09:57:55 +0200 Message-Id: <83lguod3i4.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: (message from Drew Adams on Thu, 5 Jan 2017 21:50:29 -0800 (PST)) References: <9ad8b225-73da-4533-a676-b0f8e84e54ca@default> <878tqq5fw2.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <678f8299-e6e8-4b08-a412-bf367194f6d7@default> <87a8b44z72.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) > Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2017 21:50:29 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 25357@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii > > > This is a subjective thing of course. I guess it seems obvious to me > > that a command can be called as a function, and it's explained in > > `(elisp) What Is a Function'. Adding cross references to that in every > > place we talk about invoking some command is just clutter. > > Yes, of course. But I don't think it is obvious to some > who read the _Emacs_ manual how they might turn on a major > mode using Lisp. People who write Lisp should read the ELisp manual, and expect issues related to Lisp to be covered there. The user manual is not the right place for that. From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:11:54 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#25357: 25.1; Doc for `cursor-sensor-mode' (and modes generally) Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2017 14:51:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 25357 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 25357@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net Received: via spool by 25357-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B25357.148371423317168 (code B ref 25357); Fri, 06 Jan 2017 14:51:02 +0000 Received: (at 25357) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jan 2017 14:50:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44594 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cPVqi-0004Sq-Oi for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 Jan 2017 09:50:32 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:30487) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cPVqg-0004Sb-SK for 25357@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 Jan 2017 09:50:31 -0500 Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id v06EoNlN031672 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 6 Jan 2017 14:50:23 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v06EoMnO030100 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 6 Jan 2017 14:50:22 GMT Received: from abhmp0003.oracle.com (abhmp0003.oracle.com [141.146.116.9]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v06EoLrD009649; Fri, 6 Jan 2017 14:50:21 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2017 06:50:20 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <<9ad8b225-73da-4533-a676-b0f8e84e54ca@default>> <> <> <> <> <<878tqq5fw2.fsf@users.sourceforge.net>> <<678f8299-e6e8-4b08-a412-bf367194f6d7@default>> <<87a8b44z72.fsf@users.sourceforge.net>> <> <<83lguod3i4.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83lguod3i4.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-Spam-Score: -6.7 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.7 (------) > > Yes, of course. But I don't think it is obvious to some > > who read the _Emacs_ manual how they might turn on a major > > mode using Lisp. >=20 > People who write Lisp should read the ELisp manual, and expect issues > related to Lisp to be covered there. The user manual is not the right > place for that. Did you read the part about this also not being explicitly spelled out in the Elisp manual? And about it being OK to just link to that (missing) part from the Emacs manual. It's clear to me that at least some users have been confused about how to "turn on" a major mode using Lisp. Sure, we can cop out and say they haven't studied the Elisp manual well enough... I think we can help them more. And I think that, so far, the doc (including doc strings) is not as helpful as it could be wrt using minor and major modes from Lisp. From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:11:54 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#25357: 25.1; Doc for `cursor-sensor-mode' (and modes generally) Resent-From: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2017 17:15:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 25357 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 25357@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 25357-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B25357.14838956661828 (code B ref 25357); Sun, 08 Jan 2017 17:15:02 +0000 Received: (at 25357) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jan 2017 17:14:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47041 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cQH34-0000TL-5Q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2017 12:14:26 -0500 Received: from mail-it0-f67.google.com ([209.85.214.67]:34729) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cQH32-0000T2-Ev; Sun, 08 Jan 2017 12:14:24 -0500 Received: by mail-it0-f67.google.com with SMTP id q186so7036316itb.1; Sun, 08 Jan 2017 09:14:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=zC+PqlNt/jfn5OcJZbWT2NvfiUaDcihKVBf9A2EJBsM=; b=l3ZA/MiVZ25vAewkVBNH57F8l7PLG6ECAowIE6URyEixPfBJdQvmyasVL3ayNr0AHj x5YcQnzlAOZTfHyl8TyAzeXUX0lRRZbUM4BqjqwSSO7sMT1w5XpqSAfv3YjTHinjeLfv LSrOpqJNikP/0Y67rlWRQaTKdPGlBhPfZF6h5VG9ZvnXd8oUtHwZnT6g+xbXAYYYrab6 xrFrX/Bz1M55AkXCjeqncZeVREe3h3LOZL/gnI743xNiuxeM7hIzjhC4AVzjTY2N3nlC 2fCpqhh/CRonMpR3s1xl6BE/bM9aT3DpYw7hqBWO+kxjxD0PiEl/ek6ucc7U7696mymR jBvQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date :in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=zC+PqlNt/jfn5OcJZbWT2NvfiUaDcihKVBf9A2EJBsM=; b=ZKA8N/2tNf+Cae8xJ+wKN/pZBOEWPMMzZD63ybqsNM1pi3u8M4AR/zT1d06p01Qt/M UJ61aw+XnmdDPjJABqOzcNbRJ4/BK8+4guCRzNiQJYba3o/pAfD8XUEAJv4QdbMEgNvF 7Z18FKGHkBgIIF0nI8SSgoSksCTruxYORQDOIRddf2ipHKO+DmalAycUac8rKHHodxXk q6oAmzoa/GcCVlWRXdOMjLNqUs2QPXWF060mEEpcBaLKg6f5HrbYtc8ULgfvBKl9qw9j Ai/3tAmBbsfOk9JReAhD745Yc3r0RY53smT20P1XNPUvgkP1lZmq1NZiTi4VPkIrnRTA lL1g== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXKxHvZpwtnBGNNRXDFUPnOBzFM/RQsIxd6Ohw0FV3C7U+M4+IH1msbNZJ388K8nsA== X-Received: by 10.36.175.83 with SMTP id l19mr6442829iti.113.1483895658958; Sun, 08 Jan 2017 09:14:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from zony ([45.2.7.65]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id 9sm6268749itv.0.2017.01.08.09.14.17 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sun, 08 Jan 2017 09:14:18 -0800 (PST) From: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net References: <9ad8b225-73da-4533-a676-b0f8e84e54ca@default> <878tqq5fw2.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <678f8299-e6e8-4b08-a412-bf367194f6d7@default> <87a8b44z72.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2017 12:15:22 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87a8b44z72.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> (npostavs@users.sourceforge.net's message of "Thu, 05 Jan 2017 22:58:09 -0500") Message-ID: <87o9zh1nit.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) tags 25357 fixed close 25357 25.2 quit Patch pushed to emacs-25. 1: 2017-01-07 09:30:00 -0500 a2a20739331a216826b9c76d49b0aa2abd68deee Clarify major mode switching