From unknown Sat Aug 09 13:16:12 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#25292: Ambiguity in doc string of defvar Resent-From: Alan Mackenzie Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 18:20:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 25292 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 25292@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.14830355552898 (code B ref -1); Thu, 29 Dec 2016 18:20:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Dec 2016 18:19:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59372 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cMfIJ-0000kf-Hq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 13:19:15 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:55118) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cMfIH-0000kP-4p for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 13:19:13 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cMfIB-0007E1-1v for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 13:19:07 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:44880) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cMfIA-0007Dx-Uo for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 13:19:06 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46081) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cMfI9-0006KI-Qr for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 13:19:06 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cMfI4-0007CM-SN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 13:19:05 -0500 Received: from ocolin.muc.de ([193.149.48.4]:35438 helo=mail.muc.de) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cMfI4-0007CH-IT for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 13:19:00 -0500 Received: (qmail 7716 invoked by uid 3782); 29 Dec 2016 18:18:58 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p548C6C46.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.140.108.70]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 19:18:57 +0100 Received: (qmail 3704 invoked by uid 1000); 29 Dec 2016 18:18:38 -0000 Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 18:18:38 +0000 Message-ID: <20161229181838.GB2531@acm.fritz.box> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) From: Alan Mackenzie X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: FreeBSD 9.x [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) Hello, Emacs. The doc string for defvar includes this bit: The optional argument INITVALUE is evaluated, and used to set SYMBOL, only if SYMBOL's value is void. Supposing SYMBOL's value is bound. Clearly it does not get set to INITVALUE. But in this case is INITVALUE evaluated (and the result discarded) or not? The text leaves this ambiguous. An improvement would be the appropriate one of the following: If SYMBOL's value is void, the optional argument INITVALUE is evaluated and used to set SYMBOL. INITVALUE is evaluated, and if SYMBOL's value is void, it is used to set SYMBOL. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). From unknown Sat Aug 09 13:16:12 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#25292: Ambiguity in doc string of defvar Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 18:30:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 25292 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Alan Mackenzie Cc: 25292@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 25292-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B25292.14830361753936 (code B ref 25292); Thu, 29 Dec 2016 18:30:02 +0000 Received: (at 25292) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Dec 2016 18:29:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59384 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cMfSI-00011Q-Pf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 13:29:34 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:57923) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cMfSG-00011D-BH for 25292@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 13:29:34 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cMfS7-0002c6-B5 for 25292@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 13:29:27 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:56726) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cMfS7-0002bt-7w; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 13:29:23 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1404 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1cMfS5-00062b-Tz; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 13:29:22 -0500 Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 20:29:15 +0200 Message-Id: <83r34qtwqs.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <20161229181838.GB2531@acm.fritz.box> (message from Alan Mackenzie on Thu, 29 Dec 2016 18:18:38 +0000) References: <20161229181838.GB2531@acm.fritz.box> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) > Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 18:18:38 +0000 > From: Alan Mackenzie > > INITVALUE is evaluated, and if SYMBOL's value is void, it is used to > set SYMBOL. ^^ That "it" is ambiguous. By default, people tend to interpret "it" as referring to the last noun before it, but that's not what you mean in this case. And after all that, are you sure INITVALUE is always evaluated? From unknown Sat Aug 09 13:16:12 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#25292: Ambiguity in doc string of defvar Resent-From: Alan Mackenzie Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 19:44:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 25292 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 25292@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 25292-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B25292.148304058217558 (code B ref 25292); Thu, 29 Dec 2016 19:44:02 +0000 Received: (at 25292) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Dec 2016 19:43:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59406 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cMgbO-0004Yz-5j for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 14:43:02 -0500 Received: from ocolin.muc.de ([193.149.48.4]:41347 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cMgbL-0004Yi-V5 for 25292@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 14:43:00 -0500 Received: (qmail 25034 invoked by uid 3782); 29 Dec 2016 19:42:58 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p548C6C46.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.140.108.70]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 20:42:57 +0100 Received: (qmail 3442 invoked by uid 1000); 29 Dec 2016 19:42:38 -0000 Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 19:42:38 +0000 Message-ID: <20161229194238.GA3387@acm.fritz.box> References: <20161229181838.GB2531@acm.fritz.box> <83r34qtwqs.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83r34qtwqs.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) From: Alan Mackenzie X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-Spam-Score: -3.2 (---) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.2 (---) Hello, Eli. On Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 08:29:15PM +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 18:18:38 +0000 > > From: Alan Mackenzie > > INITVALUE is evaluated, and if SYMBOL's value is void, it is used to > > set SYMBOL. ^^ > That "it" is ambiguous. By default, people tend to interpret "it" as > referring to the last noun before it, but that's not what you mean in > this case. Yes, it's no better than what I was complaining about. :-( > And after all that, are you sure INITVALUE is always evaluated? I've had a look at eval.c. INITVALUE is evaluated only when it's going to be used. So, maybe the whole paragraph should look like this: If SYMBOL's value is void and the optional argument INITVALUE is provided, INITVALUE is evaluated and the result used to set SYMBOL. If SYMBOL is buffer-local, its default value is what is set; buffer-local values are not affected. If INITVALUE is missing, SYMBOL's value is not set. What do you think? -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). From unknown Sat Aug 09 13:16:12 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#25292: Ambiguity in doc string of defvar Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 20:36:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 25292 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Alan Mackenzie Cc: 25292@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 25292-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B25292.148304373522417 (code B ref 25292); Thu, 29 Dec 2016 20:36:01 +0000 Received: (at 25292) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Dec 2016 20:35:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59415 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cMhQF-0005pV-H3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 15:35:35 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45761) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cMhQE-0005pJ-Jq for 25292@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 15:35:34 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cMhQ6-00049V-A6 for 25292@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 15:35:29 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:58440) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cMhQ6-00049M-6B; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 15:35:26 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1556 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1cMhQ3-00025c-EB; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 15:35:25 -0500 Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 22:35:07 +0200 Message-Id: <83mvfetqx0.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <20161229194238.GA3387@acm.fritz.box> (message from Alan Mackenzie on Thu, 29 Dec 2016 19:42:38 +0000) References: <20161229181838.GB2531@acm.fritz.box> <83r34qtwqs.fsf@gnu.org> <20161229194238.GA3387@acm.fritz.box> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) > Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 19:42:38 +0000 > Cc: 25292@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Alan Mackenzie > > If SYMBOL's value is void and the optional argument INITVALUE is > provided, INITVALUE is evaluated and the result used to set SYMBOL. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "...to set SYMBOL's value." > If SYMBOL is buffer-local, its default value is what is set; > buffer-local values are not affected. If INITVALUE is missing, > SYMBOL's value is not set. > > What do you think? Other than that, LGTM, thanks. From unknown Sat Aug 09 13:16:12 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Alan Mackenzie Subject: bug#25292: closed (Re: bug#25292: Ambiguity in doc string of defvar) Message-ID: References: <20161229205722.GC3387@acm.fritz.box> <20161229181838.GB2531@acm.fritz.box> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 25292 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 25292@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 20:58:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1483045082-24454-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1483045082-24454-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #25292: Ambiguity in doc string of defvar which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 25292@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 25292: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D25292 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1483045082-24454-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 25292-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Dec 2016 20:57:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59425 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cMhli-0006Lx-MH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 15:57:46 -0500 Received: from ocolin.muc.de ([193.149.48.4]:26592 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cMhlg-0006Ln-Bf for 25292-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 15:57:44 -0500 Received: (qmail 41070 invoked by uid 3782); 29 Dec 2016 20:57:43 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p548C6C46.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.140.108.70]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 21:57:42 +0100 Received: (qmail 4505 invoked by uid 1000); 29 Dec 2016 20:57:22 -0000 Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 20:57:22 +0000 To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#25292: Ambiguity in doc string of defvar Message-ID: <20161229205722.GC3387@acm.fritz.box> References: <20161229181838.GB2531@acm.fritz.box> <83r34qtwqs.fsf@gnu.org> <20161229194238.GA3387@acm.fritz.box> <83mvfetqx0.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83mvfetqx0.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) From: Alan Mackenzie X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-Spam-Score: -3.2 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25292-done Cc: 25292-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.2 (---) Hello, Eli. On Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 10:35:07PM +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 19:42:38 +0000 > > Cc: 25292@debbugs.gnu.org > > From: Alan Mackenzie > > If SYMBOL's value is void and the optional argument INITVALUE is > > provided, INITVALUE is evaluated and the result used to set SYMBOL. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > "...to set SYMBOL's value." > > If SYMBOL is buffer-local, its default value is what is set; > > buffer-local values are not affected. If INITVALUE is missing, > > SYMBOL's value is not set. > > What do you think? > Other than that, LGTM, thanks. OK. I've made that correction, and committed the amended doc string. I'm closing the bug as fixed. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). ------------=_1483045082-24454-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Dec 2016 18:19:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59372 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cMfIJ-0000kf-Hq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 13:19:15 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:55118) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cMfIH-0000kP-4p for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 13:19:13 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cMfIB-0007E1-1v for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 13:19:07 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:44880) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cMfIA-0007Dx-Uo for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 13:19:06 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46081) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cMfI9-0006KI-Qr for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 13:19:06 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cMfI4-0007CM-SN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 13:19:05 -0500 Received: from ocolin.muc.de ([193.149.48.4]:35438 helo=mail.muc.de) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cMfI4-0007CH-IT for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 13:19:00 -0500 Received: (qmail 7716 invoked by uid 3782); 29 Dec 2016 18:18:58 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p548C6C46.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.140.108.70]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 29 Dec 2016 19:18:57 +0100 Received: (qmail 3704 invoked by uid 1000); 29 Dec 2016 18:18:38 -0000 Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 18:18:38 +0000 To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: Ambiguity in doc string of defvar Message-ID: <20161229181838.GB2531@acm.fritz.box> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) From: Alan Mackenzie X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: FreeBSD 9.x [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) Hello, Emacs. The doc string for defvar includes this bit: The optional argument INITVALUE is evaluated, and used to set SYMBOL, only if SYMBOL's value is void. Supposing SYMBOL's value is bound. Clearly it does not get set to INITVALUE. But in this case is INITVALUE evaluated (and the result discarded) or not? The text leaves this ambiguous. An improvement would be the appropriate one of the following: If SYMBOL's value is void, the optional argument INITVALUE is evaluated and used to set SYMBOL. INITVALUE is evaluated, and if SYMBOL's value is void, it is used to set SYMBOL. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). ------------=_1483045082-24454-1-- From unknown Sat Aug 09 13:16:12 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#25292: Ambiguity in doc string of defvar Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2016 07:47:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 25292 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Alan Mackenzie Cc: 25292@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 25292-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B25292.148308402026869 (code B ref 25292); Fri, 30 Dec 2016 07:47:02 +0000 Received: (at 25292) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Dec 2016 07:47:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59526 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cMrtz-0006zI-VB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Dec 2016 02:47:00 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:59608) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cMrty-0006z6-Gy for 25292@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Dec 2016 02:46:58 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cMrtp-0005RZ-D5 for 25292@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Dec 2016 02:46:53 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:35942) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cMrtp-0005RM-9v; Fri, 30 Dec 2016 02:46:49 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2040 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1cMrto-0005vt-Hg; Fri, 30 Dec 2016 02:46:49 -0500 Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2016 09:46:46 +0200 Message-Id: <83k2ahuae1.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <20161229205722.GC3387@acm.fritz.box> (message from Alan Mackenzie on Thu, 29 Dec 2016 20:57:22 +0000) References: <20161229181838.GB2531@acm.fritz.box> <83r34qtwqs.fsf@gnu.org> <20161229194238.GA3387@acm.fritz.box> <83mvfetqx0.fsf@gnu.org> <20161229205722.GC3387@acm.fritz.box> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) > Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 20:57:22 +0000 > Cc: 25292-done@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Alan Mackenzie > > OK. I've made that correction, and committed the amended doc string. Thanks, but why on master?... From unknown Sat Aug 09 13:16:12 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#25292: Ambiguity in doc string of defvar Resent-From: Alan Mackenzie Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2016 09:04:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 25292 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 25292@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 25292-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B25292.14830885871223 (code B ref 25292); Fri, 30 Dec 2016 09:04:02 +0000 Received: (at 25292) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Dec 2016 09:03:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59545 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cMt5f-0000Je-Kw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Dec 2016 04:03:07 -0500 Received: from ocolin.muc.de ([193.149.48.4]:42631 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cMt5c-0000JV-MP for 25292@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Dec 2016 04:03:05 -0500 Received: (qmail 21849 invoked by uid 3782); 30 Dec 2016 09:03:03 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p548C7094.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.140.112.148]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 30 Dec 2016 10:03:02 +0100 Received: (qmail 3490 invoked by uid 1000); 30 Dec 2016 09:02:42 -0000 Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2016 09:02:42 +0000 Message-ID: <20161230090242.GA3454@acm.fritz.box> References: <20161229181838.GB2531@acm.fritz.box> <83r34qtwqs.fsf@gnu.org> <20161229194238.GA3387@acm.fritz.box> <83mvfetqx0.fsf@gnu.org> <20161229205722.GC3387@acm.fritz.box> <83k2ahuae1.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83k2ahuae1.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) From: Alan Mackenzie X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-Spam-Score: -3.2 (---) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.2 (---) Hello, Eli. On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 09:46:46AM +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 20:57:22 +0000 > > Cc: 25292-done@debbugs.gnu.org > > From: Alan Mackenzie > > OK. I've made that correction, and committed the amended doc string. > Thanks, but why on master?... I think I assumed (subconsciously) that emacs-25 was deep frozen prior to the next release. Anyhow, I've backported the change onto emacs-25. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). From unknown Sat Aug 09 13:16:12 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#25292: Ambiguity in doc string of defvar Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2016 09:43:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 25292 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Alan Mackenzie Cc: 25292@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 25292-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B25292.14830909574611 (code B ref 25292); Fri, 30 Dec 2016 09:43:02 +0000 Received: (at 25292) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Dec 2016 09:42:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59553 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cMtht-0001CJ-7m for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Dec 2016 04:42:37 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:54603) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cMths-0001C7-7n for 25292@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Dec 2016 04:42:36 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cMthi-00031P-Ng for 25292@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Dec 2016 04:42:31 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:39584) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cMthi-00031I-Kd; Fri, 30 Dec 2016 04:42:26 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2209 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1cMthh-0001Zn-Vb; Fri, 30 Dec 2016 04:42:26 -0500 Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2016 11:42:24 +0200 Message-Id: <837f6hu51b.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <20161230090242.GA3454@acm.fritz.box> (message from Alan Mackenzie on Fri, 30 Dec 2016 09:02:42 +0000) References: <20161229181838.GB2531@acm.fritz.box> <83r34qtwqs.fsf@gnu.org> <20161229194238.GA3387@acm.fritz.box> <83mvfetqx0.fsf@gnu.org> <20161229205722.GC3387@acm.fritz.box> <83k2ahuae1.fsf@gnu.org> <20161230090242.GA3454@acm.fritz.box> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) > Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2016 09:02:42 +0000 > Cc: 25292@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Alan Mackenzie > > > > OK. I've made that correction, and committed the amended doc string. > > > Thanks, but why on master?... > > I think I assumed (subconsciously) that emacs-25 was deep frozen prior > to the next release. Not for documentation changes. > Anyhow, I've backported the change onto emacs-25. Thanks!