From unknown Sat Sep 13 15:28:11 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#25259: gnu tools conform to ?? older posix? Resent-From: "L. A. Walsh" Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2016 09:41:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 25259 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 25259@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-coreutils@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.148257241119375 (code B ref -1); Sat, 24 Dec 2016 09:41:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Dec 2016 09:40:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53185 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cKioF-00052R-EJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Dec 2016 04:40:11 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:41297) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cKioC-00052C-UR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Dec 2016 04:40:09 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cKio6-00085Q-RR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Dec 2016 04:40:03 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:37159) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cKio6-00085I-OT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Dec 2016 04:40:02 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60501) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cKio5-00039g-Im for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Dec 2016 04:40:02 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cKio1-00082k-M9 for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Dec 2016 04:40:01 -0500 Received: from ishtar.tlinx.org ([173.164.175.65]:32894 helo=Ishtar.sc.tlinx.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cKio1-00081B-0v for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Dec 2016 04:39:57 -0500 Received: from [192.168.3.12] (Athenae [192.168.3.12]) by Ishtar.sc.tlinx.org (8.14.7/8.14.4/SuSE Linux 0.8) with ESMTP id uBO9dkAd086062 for ; Sat, 24 Dec 2016 01:39:49 -0800 Message-ID: <585E425E.8060302@tlinx.org> Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2016 01:39:42 -0800 From: "L. A. Walsh" User-Agent: Thunderbird MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x (no timestamps) [generic] [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) In the 8.26 NEWS file, I found this paragraph: These programs are intended to conform to POSIX (with BSD and other extensions), like the rest of the GNU system. By default they conform to older POSIX (1003.2-1992), and therefore support obsolete usages like "head -10" and "chown owner.group file". This default is overridden at build-time by ... and in turn can be overridden at runtime ... ---- I don't think the above is correct w/r/t "rm" with its previous functionality removed to enforce compliance with the latest POSIX (not the 1992 POSIX). I'm pretty sure that the 1992 version of POSIX didn't override the historical design and behavior of "rm" by disabling the "depth-first" removal of files if you specified "DIRNAME/.", and generating an error message at the end (suppressible with the "-f" switch). As GNU utils strive for compliance w/the older POSIX standard, I would like for rm's functionality to be restored. In order to make it more useful, I ask that the --one-file-system switch have a short-form, "-x", to indicate negation of crossing file-system boundaries. Thanks & Cheers! :-) Linda From unknown Sat Sep 13 15:28:11 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#25259: gnu tools conformance issues Resent-From: L A Walsh Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2016 18:15:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 25259 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 25259@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-coreutils@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.148286245225010 (code B ref -1); Tue, 27 Dec 2016 18:15:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Dec 2016 18:14:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57230 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cLwGJ-0006VK-VH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2016 13:14:12 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:50883) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cLwGI-0006V7-J9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2016 13:14:10 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cLwG9-00077c-MK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2016 13:14:05 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:47229) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cLwG9-00077H-K2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2016 13:14:01 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41755) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cLwG8-00073j-JJ for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2016 13:14:01 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cLwG4-00074C-Je for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2016 13:14:00 -0500 Received: from ishtar.tlinx.org ([173.164.175.65]:59290 helo=Ishtar.sc.tlinx.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cLwG4-00072c-4e for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2016 13:13:56 -0500 Received: from [192.168.3.12] (Athenae [192.168.3.12]) by Ishtar.sc.tlinx.org (8.14.7/8.14.4/SuSE Linux 0.8) with ESMTP id uBRIDRNj090103 for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2016 10:13:29 -0800 Message-ID: <5862AF50.2000506@tlinx.org> Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2016 10:13:36 -0800 From: L A Walsh User-Agent: Thunderbird MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <585E425E.8060302@tlinx.org> In-Reply-To: <585E425E.8060302@tlinx.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x (no timestamps) [generic] [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) L. A. Walsh wrote: > In the 8.26 NEWS file, I found this paragraph: > > These programs are intended to conform to POSIX (with BSD and other > extensions), like the rest of the GNU system. By default they conform > to older POSIX (1003.2-1992), and therefore support obsolete usages > like "head -10" and "chown owner.group file". This default is > overridden at build-time by ... and in turn can be overridden > at runtime ... ---- Delving into this a bit more. I note that the distro that I use tries to specify the POSIX version for coreutils by passing flags to 'configure': DEFAULT_POSIX2_VERSION=200112 \ alternative=199209 They are explicitly configuring coreutils to build to a specific version as documented in the NEWS file. I.e. besides individuals who have asked that the older standards be supported, some distros are, also, running configure with specific POSIX versions listed. Just a guess, but perhaps they don't want unexpected behaviors to crop up in the coreutil tools that might necessitate changing an unknown number of other tools dependent on the old formats/behaviors(?). From unknown Sat Sep 13 15:28:11 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: "L. A. Walsh" Subject: bug#25259: closed (Re: bug#25259: gnu tools conform to ?? older posix?) Message-ID: References: <882e3b50-df56-02b0-6720-19ea0add1785@cs.ucla.edu> <585E425E.8060302@tlinx.org> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 25259 X-Gnu-PR-Package: coreutils Reply-To: 25259@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2016 23:06:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1482879962-32183-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1482879962-32183-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #25259: gnu tools conform to ?? older posix? which was filed against the coreutils package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 25259@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 25259: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D25259 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1482879962-32183-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 25259-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Dec 2016 23:05:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57369 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cM0oX-0008Mi-VD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2016 18:05:50 -0500 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:60434) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cM0oV-0008MS-Ps for 25259-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2016 18:05:48 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDA7E1600D8; Tue, 27 Dec 2016 15:05:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id cNGknxwNXK3W; Tue, 27 Dec 2016 15:05:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 195381600E4; Tue, 27 Dec 2016 15:05:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id VdI6wtLKmtqq; Tue, 27 Dec 2016 15:05:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [47.153.178.162]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EB4F41600D8; Tue, 27 Dec 2016 15:05:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: bug#25259: gnu tools conform to ?? older posix? To: "L. A. Walsh" , 25259-done@debbugs.gnu.org References: <585E425E.8060302@tlinx.org> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <882e3b50-df56-02b0-6720-19ea0add1785@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2016 15:05:39 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <585E425E.8060302@tlinx.org> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------4552DA895D0F17D74C2E3DA0" X-Spam-Score: -3.1 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25259-done X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.1 (---) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------4552DA895D0F17D74C2E3DA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit L. A. Walsh wrote: > I don't think the above is correct w/r/t "rm" with its previous > functionality removed to enforce compliance with the latest POSIX > (not the 1992 POSIX). Yes, that part of README is obsolete. I installed the attached to fix that and am closing this bug report. Although my impression is that you also want 'rm' to be changed, that would be a topic for a different bug report. --------------4552DA895D0F17D74C2E3DA0 Content-Type: text/x-diff; name="0001-doc-Update-POSIX-part-of-README-Bug-25259.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-doc-Update-POSIX-part-of-README-Bug-25259.patch" >From 6a5f2e9940090b61bdc7c2b0600edc25579889f4 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Paul Eggert Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2016 15:02:34 -0800 Subject: [PATCH] doc: Update POSIX part of README (Bug#25259) --- README | 10 ++++------ 1 file changed, 4 insertions(+), 6 deletions(-) diff --git a/README b/README index 1dea908..3910255 100644 --- a/README +++ b/README @@ -23,12 +23,10 @@ If you obtained this file as part of a "git clone", then see the README-hacking file. If this file came to you as part of a tar archive, then see the file INSTALL for compilation and installation instructions. -These programs are intended to conform to POSIX (with BSD and other -extensions), like the rest of the GNU system. By default they conform -to older POSIX (1003.2-1992), and therefore support obsolete usages -like "head -10" and "chown owner.group file". This default is -overridden at build-time by the value of 's _POSIX2_VERSION -macro, and this in turn can be overridden at runtime as described in +Like the rest of the GNU system, these programs mostly conform to +POSIX, with BSD and other extensions. For closer conformance, or +conformance to a particular POSIX version, set the POSIXLY_CORRECT +and the _POSIX2_VERSION environment variables, as described in the documentation under "Standards conformance". The ls, dir, and vdir commands are all separate executables instead of -- 2.7.4 --------------4552DA895D0F17D74C2E3DA0-- ------------=_1482879962-32183-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Dec 2016 09:40:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53185 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cKioF-00052R-EJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Dec 2016 04:40:11 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:41297) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cKioC-00052C-UR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Dec 2016 04:40:09 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cKio6-00085Q-RR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Dec 2016 04:40:03 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:37159) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cKio6-00085I-OT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Dec 2016 04:40:02 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60501) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cKio5-00039g-Im for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Dec 2016 04:40:02 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cKio1-00082k-M9 for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Dec 2016 04:40:01 -0500 Received: from ishtar.tlinx.org ([173.164.175.65]:32894 helo=Ishtar.sc.tlinx.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cKio1-00081B-0v for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Dec 2016 04:39:57 -0500 Received: from [192.168.3.12] (Athenae [192.168.3.12]) by Ishtar.sc.tlinx.org (8.14.7/8.14.4/SuSE Linux 0.8) with ESMTP id uBO9dkAd086062 for ; Sat, 24 Dec 2016 01:39:49 -0800 Message-ID: <585E425E.8060302@tlinx.org> Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2016 01:39:42 -0800 From: "L. A. Walsh" User-Agent: Thunderbird MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bug-coreutils@gnu.org Subject: gnu tools conform to ?? older posix? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x (no timestamps) [generic] [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) In the 8.26 NEWS file, I found this paragraph: These programs are intended to conform to POSIX (with BSD and other extensions), like the rest of the GNU system. By default they conform to older POSIX (1003.2-1992), and therefore support obsolete usages like "head -10" and "chown owner.group file". This default is overridden at build-time by ... and in turn can be overridden at runtime ... ---- I don't think the above is correct w/r/t "rm" with its previous functionality removed to enforce compliance with the latest POSIX (not the 1992 POSIX). I'm pretty sure that the 1992 version of POSIX didn't override the historical design and behavior of "rm" by disabling the "depth-first" removal of files if you specified "DIRNAME/.", and generating an error message at the end (suppressible with the "-f" switch). As GNU utils strive for compliance w/the older POSIX standard, I would like for rm's functionality to be restored. In order to make it more useful, I ask that the --one-file-system switch have a short-form, "-x", to indicate negation of crossing file-system boundaries. Thanks & Cheers! :-) Linda ------------=_1482879962-32183-1--