From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Nov 21 13:25:15 2016 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Nov 2016 18:25:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37343 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c8tHH-0002Nd-6D for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 13:25:15 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:59135) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c8tHF-0002NO-DY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 13:25:14 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c8tH9-0001gE-Kz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 13:25:08 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:55533) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c8tH9-0001g6-HP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 13:25:07 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:50098) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c8tH8-0004WG-FR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 13:25:07 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c8tH3-0001ct-KD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 13:25:06 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:42433) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c8tH3-0001bw-8F for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 13:25:01 -0500 Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id uALIOxBu026133 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 18:24:59 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.14.4) with ESMTP id uALIOx2Y008325 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 18:24:59 GMT Received: from abhmp0014.oracle.com (abhmp0014.oracle.com [141.146.116.20]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id uALIOvd7011305 for ; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 18:24:58 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 10:24:56 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.5; Doc string of `current-word' X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) This part of the doc string is wrong: The function, belying its name, normally finds a symbol. 1. There is no "normally". Do you mean often? Usually? Sometimes? (When?) 2. It always returns a string, never a symbol. A symbol is a Lisp object. If you mean that it often returns a string that has symbol, not word, syntax, then say so. That does not mean that it returns a symbol. Yes, the first line of the doc now says that it returns a string. This means that the doc as a whole is currently confusing and inconsistent. In GNU Emacs 24.5.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2015-04-11 on LEG570 Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --prefix=3D/c/usr --host=3Di686-pc-mingw32' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Nov 25 04:52:46 2016 Received: (at 24979-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Nov 2016 09:52:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41071 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cADBW-0000MV-BA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Nov 2016 04:52:46 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:46686) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cADBV-0000MH-3v for 24979-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Nov 2016 04:52:45 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cADBL-0006A6-PL for 24979-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Nov 2016 04:52:39 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:58548) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cADBL-00069z-Lj; Fri, 25 Nov 2016 04:52:35 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2198 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1cADBK-0006qz-M2; Fri, 25 Nov 2016 04:52:35 -0500 Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2016 11:52:24 +0200 Message-Id: <83fumf51k7.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: (message from Drew Adams on Mon, 21 Nov 2016 10:24:56 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: bug#24979: 24.5; Doc string of `current-word' References: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.0 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24979-done Cc: 24979-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.0 (--------) > Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 10:24:56 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > > This part of the doc string is wrong: > > The function, belying its name, normally finds a symbol. > > > 1. There is no "normally". Do you mean often? Usually? Sometimes? > (When?) "Normally" is GNU and Emacs parlance for "by default", and is usually (as in this case) followed by the description of the non-default use case. You will find gazillions of this in the documentation. > 2. It always returns a string, never a symbol. A symbol is a Lisp > object. If you mean that it often returns a string that has symbol, > not word, syntax, then say so. That does not mean that it returns a > symbol. Yes, the first line of the doc now says that it returns a > string. This means that the doc as a whole is currently confusing > and inconsistent. I think this is splitting hair, probably because "symbol" is ambiguous due to its being a Lisp object. E.g., if the doc string said Return the word at or near point, as a string. you wouldn't object, because "word" is not a Lisp object. Anyway, I modified the doc string to say "Return the word at or near point, as a string. The return value includes no text properties. If optional arg STRICT is non-nil, return nil unless point is within or adjacent to a word, otherwise look for a word within point's line. If there is no word anywhere on point's line, the value is nil regardless of STRICT. By default, this function treats as a single word any sequence of characters that have either word or symbol syntax. If optional arg REALLY-WORD is non-nil, only characters of word syntax can constitute a word." Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Nov 25 10:36:39 2016 Received: (at 24979-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Nov 2016 15:36:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41614 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cAIYJ-0005Jg-6F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Nov 2016 10:36:39 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:20821) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cAIYG-0005JQ-Lc for 24979-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Nov 2016 10:36:37 -0500 Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id uAPFaUPp019528 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 25 Nov 2016 15:36:30 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id uAPFaTDB030228 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 25 Nov 2016 15:36:30 GMT Received: from abhmp0011.oracle.com (abhmp0011.oracle.com [141.146.116.17]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id uAPFaSsq013214; Fri, 25 Nov 2016 15:36:29 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <759faee5-8fa2-45a1-bee1-df2df096cb75@default> Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2016 07:36:27 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#24979: 24.5; Doc string of `current-word' References: <> <<83fumf51k7.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83fumf51k7.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24979-done Cc: 24979-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) > > This part of the doc string is wrong: > > > > The function, belying its name, normally finds a symbol. > > > > > > 1. There is no "normally". Do you mean often? Usually? > > Sometimes? (When?) >=20 > "Normally" is GNU and Emacs parlance for "by default", and is > usually (as in this case) followed by the description of the > non-default use case. You will find gazillions of this in > the documentation. If there are other cases where "normally" is used to convey "by default" then I hope they get fixed too. If the surrounding text makes clear, e.g. by explicitly contrasting, that what is meant by "normally" is the default case, then it could be OK (but should never be _preferred_ to stating clearly and explicitly what the default behavior is). In this case, "normally" might have been able to be understood the way you say if the last two sentences were in their own paragraph, so that the last more clearly qualified the statement of the next-to-last, instead of appearing to stand on its own. > I think this is splitting hair, probably because "symbol" is > ambiguous due to its being a Lisp object. E.g., if the doc > string said > Return the word at or near point, as a string. > you wouldn't object, because "word" is not a Lisp object. Correct. I wouldn't have objected about calling it a word. But I would have objected about "near", which is not the same as on-the-same-line-and-adjacent-to - it is quite different, in fact. > Anyway, I modified the doc string to say >=20 > "Return the word at or near point, as a string. Return the word at point or adjacent to it, as a string. (or a bit less clear: Return the word at or adjacent to point, as a string.) See above. The rest looks good. Thx. From unknown Mon Sep 08 01:50:40 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2016 12:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator