From unknown Tue Sep 09 13:19:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24977: 25.1; search and query-replace in Dired Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 01:55:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 24977 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 24977@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.147969328122845 (code B ref -1); Mon, 21 Nov 2016 01:55:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Nov 2016 01:54:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36525 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c8dof-0005wP-2w for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 20:54:41 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:48661) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c8doc-0005w8-Nc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 20:54:39 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c8doW-00048J-Ji for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 20:54:33 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:49258) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c8doW-00048E-GN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 20:54:32 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39627) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c8doV-0006bc-4e for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 20:54:32 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c8doQ-00047X-4G for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 20:54:31 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:40394) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c8doP-00045r-SD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 20:54:26 -0500 Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id uAL1sLwU005393 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 01:54:23 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.14.4) with ESMTP id uAL1sL5O009548 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 01:54:21 GMT Received: from abhmp0010.oracle.com (abhmp0010.oracle.com [141.146.116.16]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id uAL1sKxl002768 for ; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 01:54:21 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 17:54:18 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) You unwisely changed `A' and `Q' in Dired to two completely different commands. You ignored arguments for keeping these as they were and creating new bindings for the new, completely different, search and replacement commands you provided. You even claimed that you intend to deprecate the "old" commands. All of that is sorely misguided. See bug #23428 for background: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D23428 However, you did NOT change the menu bindings for `dired-do-search' and `dired-do-query-replace-regexp' (the commands formerly bound to `A' and `Q'). This is inconsistent. Those menu items no longer show the keyboard shortcuts, because they have none. And the new commands are not on menus at all. It was unwise to change the key bindings. They should be restored, and new bindings should be sought for your new commands. And the "old" commands should definitely not be deprecated. The new commands do NOT AT ALL replace their functionality. The new commands are not incremental. You cannot change the search patterns on the fly. Nor can you add and remove filter predicates on the fly. And of the new are limited to the kinds of regexps supported by certain `grep' commands, which are external to Emacs. The "old" require no programs outside Emacs, and they support all Emacs regexps, including those that match multiple lines. The new commands are essentially just `grep' or `find' cousins. They are fine to have - in addition. But they should not have usurped the longstanding keybindings. Please reconsider: Restore the `A' and `Q' keybindings as they were, and come up with _additional_ key bindings for the new commands. The new commands are NOT better or a replacement; they are simply different. Their power is strictly MORE limited (not incremental, and only limited regexps), even if they do have certain advantages for certain cases (fast, global view). There is no need to wipe out extremely useful commands and their bindings, just because you come up with new commands that do something somewhat similar. No users asked for these key-binding changes. There was no reason you could not add without subtracting. Users and Emacs Dev can decide over time, based on feedback and usage, which are the best keys for which commands and whether any of the commands should be deprecated. This switcheroo was unnecessarily precipitous (if not downright arrogant). In GNU Emacs 25.1.1 (x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2016-09-17 built on LAPHROAIG Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: 'configure --without-dbus --without-compress-install CFLAGS=3D-static' From unknown Tue Sep 09 13:19:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24977: 25.1; search and query-replace in Dired Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 02:14:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24977 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 24977@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 24977-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24977.147969439624537 (code B ref 24977); Mon, 21 Nov 2016 02:14:02 +0000 Received: (at 24977) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Nov 2016 02:13:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36539 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c8e6e-0006Nh-0l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 21:13:16 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:51406) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c8e6c-0006NU-Hz for 24977@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 21:13:15 -0500 Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id uAL2D8Ma019324 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for <24977@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 02:13:08 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id uAL2D77L028424 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for <24977@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 02:13:08 GMT Received: from abhmp0010.oracle.com (abhmp0010.oracle.com [141.146.116.16]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id uAL2D7Nk007659 for <24977@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 02:13:07 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 18:13:05 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-Spam-Score: -5.2 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.2 (-----) Sorry, this part of the bug report was not relevant (the old commands are also not incremental): "The new commands are not incremental. You cannot change the search patterns on the fly. Nor can you add and remove filter predicates on the fly." --- BTW: The correspondence between the key for `dired-do-search' (`A') and the keys for incremental search has been lost. An effort was made to give the Isearch key bindings for Dired the same mnemonic as that for `dired-do-search': `a' for `A' (`M-s' is the Isearch prefix). dired-do-search A dired-do-isearch M-s a C-s dired-do-isearch-regexp M-s a C-M-s From unknown Tue Sep 09 13:19:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24977: 25.1; search and query-replace in Dired Resent-From: Tino Calancha Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 14:08:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24977 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 24977@debbugs.gnu.org Cc: Drew Adams , tino.calancha@gmail.com Received: via spool by 24977-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24977.147973725511301 (code B ref 24977); Mon, 21 Nov 2016 14:08:02 +0000 Received: (at 24977) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Nov 2016 14:07:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36794 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c8pFv-0002wD-7d for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 09:07:35 -0500 Received: from mail-pf0-f171.google.com ([209.85.192.171]:35135) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c8pFu-0002vy-1Z for 24977@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 09:07:34 -0500 Received: by mail-pf0-f171.google.com with SMTP id i88so64570883pfk.2 for <24977@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 06:07:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:subject:references:cc:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=abj7TVX1W1gA33bb62nrZVocstyc4ly8gK7ZpkstXtA=; b=AQ0Xi8qg+NRWJfKKcMXyUs+h9rq9+FDHyAmmdqQpx1Tv6xqbKSUCFtD97eIgAi/DuU 949NY9DQeo3EZ9eugag2L0mc1Vb45pfzS10Z1KMtIWAEpoenDDltvwhosUr4OxvXbmae r/FRNmhWoDPOAKULPI+W+JwGS6v+3h+AsT5J4BaXy7aKaZcLEUi56+NcxJXuADbwlW++ gA4spnN3kRfM5MXaqn2yYn73e909ktQ3IT48yY9UWGAjDX4mzbPTsRzxUrARjj3WvVz7 Ou/dFTO/QKX1PO2QOj3/KTJhzFJz79+2dO1sO0xi56d+PSYiR1M2JKHnJ6YBFERq1a07 nSKQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:references:cc:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=abj7TVX1W1gA33bb62nrZVocstyc4ly8gK7ZpkstXtA=; b=ffeVtsKQmlb0Joxn70M7JxWy61aCjRMmyVLF6O8c2PeoWQI4mZ2hIjt+AO3OwWZs85 gl0rwrleGRC6kjsuPvDO31yoU7EzJmRrn1gCmkaUsMCTreP71xkygQjz1GRdI5lz39fk Xt6y0oyopWwCzJbN9pPB7Ct+nIb2g9PR0rxawEDH7AM/Lus24rpGECEdGTOlfysX5fUo azj8Fk51odk9sVGsaTAWSUYskkJ8K7pGJ81xS6QHREDdwwsVV2vgF2n2IMs1qDPuQlVm RPoY9ELwqhAM8kq4nTWRF4mBclvCVFqSrmmxAM649zeRgYmtcsljcypktAbTZtebVGKe DMFw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC01zsH0VjMBRfjaGM5qGTkVEdWNF5ChQHRy+K//0lGfpncS558+94BV7p0Gy85xuFA== X-Received: by 10.99.133.200 with SMTP id u191mr32429051pgd.28.1479737247860; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 06:07:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from calancha-pc (57.92.100.220.dy.bbexcite.jp. [220.100.92.57]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r88sm38029044pfe.93.2016.11.21.06.07.26 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 21 Nov 2016 06:07:27 -0800 (PST) From: Tino Calancha References: Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 23:07:24 +0900 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 20 Nov 2016 17:54:18 -0800 (PST)") Message-ID: <87mvgt7wpv.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Drew Adams writes: > You unwisely changed `A' and `Q' in Dired to two completely different > commands. You even claimed that you intend to > deprecate the "old" commands. I sometimes need to use `Q' command. I prefer `dired-do-query-replace-regexp', because it acepts Emacs regexp syntaxis. It's confusing that '% g' handles Emacs regexp but `Q' or `A' use a different one: IMO, it's more natural if we bind to keys those commands accepting the native regexp syntaxis. From unknown Tue Sep 09 13:19:20 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Drew Adams Subject: bug#24977: closed (Re: bug#24977: 25.1; search and query-replace in Dired) Message-ID: References: <83h97094yh.fsf@gnu.org> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 24977 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 24977@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 16:25:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1479745502-23949-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1479745502-23949-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #24977: 25.1; search and query-replace in Dired which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 24977@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 24977: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D24977 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1479745502-23949-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 24977-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Nov 2016 16:24:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37276 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c8rO4-0006D8-R5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 11:24:09 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:51580) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c8rO2-0006Ce-96 for 24977-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 11:24:06 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c8rNr-0003sm-IW for 24977-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 11:24:01 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:47983) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c8rNr-0003se-FS; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 11:23:55 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3082 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1c8rNq-00055H-PJ; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 11:23:55 -0500 Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 18:24:06 +0200 Message-Id: <83h97094yh.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: (message from Drew Adams on Sun, 20 Nov 2016 17:54:18 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: bug#24977: 25.1; search and query-replace in Dired References: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.0 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24977-done Cc: 24977-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.0 (--------) > Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 17:54:18 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > > However, you did NOT change the menu bindings for `dired-do-search' and > `dired-do-query-replace-regexp' (the commands formerly bound to `A' and > `Q'). This is inconsistent. Those menu items no longer show the > keyboard shortcuts, because they have none. And the new commands are > not on menus at all. Thanks, I fixed that now. > It was unwise to change the key bindings. They should be restored, and > new bindings should be sought for your new commands. Let's not start beating this dead horse again. ------------=_1479745502-23949-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Nov 2016 01:54:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36525 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c8dof-0005wP-2w for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 20:54:41 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:48661) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c8doc-0005w8-Nc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 20:54:39 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c8doW-00048J-Ji for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 20:54:33 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:49258) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c8doW-00048E-GN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 20:54:32 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39627) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c8doV-0006bc-4e for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 20:54:32 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c8doQ-00047X-4G for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 20:54:31 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:40394) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c8doP-00045r-SD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 20:54:26 -0500 Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id uAL1sLwU005393 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 01:54:23 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.14.4) with ESMTP id uAL1sL5O009548 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 01:54:21 GMT Received: from abhmp0010.oracle.com (abhmp0010.oracle.com [141.146.116.16]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id uAL1sKxl002768 for ; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 01:54:21 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 17:54:18 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 25.1; search and query-replace in Dired X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) You unwisely changed `A' and `Q' in Dired to two completely different commands. You ignored arguments for keeping these as they were and creating new bindings for the new, completely different, search and replacement commands you provided. You even claimed that you intend to deprecate the "old" commands. All of that is sorely misguided. See bug #23428 for background: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D23428 However, you did NOT change the menu bindings for `dired-do-search' and `dired-do-query-replace-regexp' (the commands formerly bound to `A' and `Q'). This is inconsistent. Those menu items no longer show the keyboard shortcuts, because they have none. And the new commands are not on menus at all. It was unwise to change the key bindings. They should be restored, and new bindings should be sought for your new commands. And the "old" commands should definitely not be deprecated. The new commands do NOT AT ALL replace their functionality. The new commands are not incremental. You cannot change the search patterns on the fly. Nor can you add and remove filter predicates on the fly. And of the new are limited to the kinds of regexps supported by certain `grep' commands, which are external to Emacs. The "old" require no programs outside Emacs, and they support all Emacs regexps, including those that match multiple lines. The new commands are essentially just `grep' or `find' cousins. They are fine to have - in addition. But they should not have usurped the longstanding keybindings. Please reconsider: Restore the `A' and `Q' keybindings as they were, and come up with _additional_ key bindings for the new commands. The new commands are NOT better or a replacement; they are simply different. Their power is strictly MORE limited (not incremental, and only limited regexps), even if they do have certain advantages for certain cases (fast, global view). There is no need to wipe out extremely useful commands and their bindings, just because you come up with new commands that do something somewhat similar. No users asked for these key-binding changes. There was no reason you could not add without subtracting. Users and Emacs Dev can decide over time, based on feedback and usage, which are the best keys for which commands and whether any of the commands should be deprecated. This switcheroo was unnecessarily precipitous (if not downright arrogant). In GNU Emacs 25.1.1 (x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2016-09-17 built on LAPHROAIG Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: 'configure --without-dbus --without-compress-install CFLAGS=3D-static' ------------=_1479745502-23949-1-- From unknown Tue Sep 09 13:19:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24977: 25.1; search and query-replace in Dired Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 16:38:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24977 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Cc: 24977-done@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 24977-done@debbugs.gnu.org id=D24977.147974622625090 (code D ref 24977); Mon, 21 Nov 2016 16:38:01 +0000 Received: (at 24977-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Nov 2016 16:37:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37286 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c8rac-0006Wc-9Q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 11:37:06 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:41511) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c8raa-0006W7-9o for 24977-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 11:37:04 -0500 Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id uALGav6E002965 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 21 Nov 2016 16:36:58 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id uALGav6b022107 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 21 Nov 2016 16:36:57 GMT Received: from abhmp0014.oracle.com (abhmp0014.oracle.com [141.146.116.20]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id uALGavS6022880; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 16:36:57 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <845ed24d-8693-4691-aaaf-8f5b427a1563@default> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 08:36:55 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <> <<83h97094yh.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83h97094yh.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) > > However, you did NOT change the menu bindings for `dired-do- > > search' and `dired-do-query-replace-regexp' (the commands formerly > > bound to `A' and `Q'). This is inconsistent. Those menu items no > > longer show the keyboard shortcuts, because they have none. And > > the new commands are not on menus at all. >=20 > Thanks, I fixed that now. >=20 > > It was unwise to change the key bindings. They should be > > restored, and new bindings should be sought for your new commands. >=20 > Let's not start beating this dead horse again. Then you did NOT fix this bug, and it should be closed as `wont fix'. That's your choice, but please do not claim that you fixed the bug that was reported if you did not. The original search and query-replace commands, which were in the menu, should also have keyboard key bindings (as before). AND the new commands should be added to the menu. For the menu, I suggest: `Search Files' - as before `Search Files using `find' - for the new command `Query Replace' - as before `Query Replace using `find' - for the new command Logically, the longstanding key bindings `A' and `Q' should be restored to the original commands. But if you refuse that then they should at least be given other key bindings - `M-a' and `M-q', for example. Doing this, you can rightfully close this bug as fixed. Otherwise, no. From unknown Tue Sep 09 13:19:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24977: 25.1; search and query-replace in Dired Resent-From: Dmitry Gutov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 16:48:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24977 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Tino Calancha , 24977@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 24977-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24977.147974687226031 (code B ref 24977); Mon, 21 Nov 2016 16:48:02 +0000 Received: (at 24977) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Nov 2016 16:47:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37292 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c8rl2-0006lm-Ab for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 11:47:52 -0500 Received: from mail-wj0-f182.google.com ([209.85.210.182]:36618) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c8rl0-0006la-US for 24977@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 11:47:51 -0500 Received: by mail-wj0-f182.google.com with SMTP id qp4so28681610wjc.3 for <24977@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 08:47:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=I6wPfVbq2WVQBzTcsQwwC0Rur51fmfkrPxnz8vykpjU=; b=mSWkNWR0R5yTlLD4CaOzcyCWBX9CIwdkKnW24H7ADk0NjlcYEknijjsJmfgiVThtC8 YzuKZGs0JuKCp3BorbvP+Hm6jKhbM7FvoVVY4D9KevunBvLK1xWJOrDfBhCL5oPbpfiA Ck27TJV1NbqW5awsnRYY59uonLfJz3cs2WoZaTnlgAB0IgydTFhJGuIj3lsT645Js0w8 zhHLYiN6Ht4WcY4LaGJiaMJUtNbBkC9jEK4ymsFt1D7setWwenO1mQAFL068S+NyMuDT utJAWZMWRPRQwn9MpZc+dEwMQjbZQfdgEhWn5+F4nr/DXHBXapEgxcL0EGj2eAt4NsU9 +Gig== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=I6wPfVbq2WVQBzTcsQwwC0Rur51fmfkrPxnz8vykpjU=; b=iV2a7oyj1niww/0dqdms2vXtNWso67Ft+nv/sYrT1weVvDoTy03Mzzi1HhBggn+TYz ccI2eyoWk2ZBb7+N0GwqsgZgD2ArT9ciISI6ZZBrJftCyvpepMbZ3WQkCda26QnxRmVO VwWH7MWcG9khg2k7LQNdLyuwz2vvpcOfBO8p+vlCQOdLZ6XLlVqyrYRA8XTEgc5eYML0 k0a5+yEFfjYS8cdLuqu9SLH5oFEoWyV/AGQl52zhCWxd2AAGDtvoyNaKrH7R05B1Ol37 sZS84unzubtOvP/ofekHAVtZYIbAF09EbtSUjv8AUzFkZOj1M8ooehshUPS1rOe8qAQu bAGg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC006qWk5ok1YA8/ZaLQMRSO452wqnL7iX28yv7BKF1NUxd0mLRfAesoIEOQjcpLijA== X-Received: by 10.194.179.135 with SMTP id dg7mr10128807wjc.219.1479746865021; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 08:47:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.133] ([212.50.99.193]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id 63sm20515579wmg.2.2016.11.21.08.47.43 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 21 Nov 2016 08:47:44 -0800 (PST) References: <87mvgt7wpv.fsf@gmail.com> From: Dmitry Gutov Message-ID: <3a0885ad-2bca-d446-b8ed-9d1844e900e3@yandex.ru> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 18:47:42 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:50.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/50.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87mvgt7wpv.fsf@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) On 21.11.2016 16:07, Tino Calancha wrote: > I sometimes need to use `Q' command. I prefer > `dired-do-query-replace-regexp', because it acepts Emacs regexp syntaxis. Please file provide examples (maybe in a new bug report), and I'll strive to fix those. There will always remain edge cases, but the simpler ones should be doable without too much effort. From unknown Tue Sep 09 13:19:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24977: 25.1; search and query-replace in Dired Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 17:43:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24977 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Dmitry Gutov , Tino Calancha , 24977@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 24977-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24977.14797501305060 (code B ref 24977); Mon, 21 Nov 2016 17:43:01 +0000 Received: (at 24977) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Nov 2016 17:42:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37322 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c8sba-0001JY-F0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 12:42:10 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:30503) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c8sbY-0001JJ-2n for 24977@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 12:42:08 -0500 Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id uALHg1wd013581 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 21 Nov 2016 17:42:01 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id uALHg0ak007599 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 21 Nov 2016 17:42:01 GMT Received: from abhmp0014.oracle.com (abhmp0014.oracle.com [141.146.116.20]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id uALHfw4m021096; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 17:41:59 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <70bc6499-70ca-41e5-8ea8-1ac4388ad67b@default> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 09:41:57 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <87mvgt7wpv.fsf@gmail.com> <3a0885ad-2bca-d446-b8ed-9d1844e900e3@yandex.ru> In-Reply-To: <3a0885ad-2bca-d446-b8ed-9d1844e900e3@yandex.ru> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) > > I sometimes need to use `Q' command. I prefer > > `dired-do-query-replace-regexp', because it acepts Emacs regexp > > syntaxis. >=20 > Please file provide examples (maybe in a new bug report), and I'll > strive to fix those. As already mentioned in this bug report: * Any multiline regexp. * Any regexp that is outside what the current `grep' syntax uses. From unknown Tue Sep 09 13:19:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24977: 25.1; search and query-replace in Dired Resent-From: Dmitry Gutov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 18:18:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24977 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams , Tino Calancha , 24977@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 24977-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24977.14797522658434 (code B ref 24977); Mon, 21 Nov 2016 18:18:01 +0000 Received: (at 24977) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Nov 2016 18:17:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37338 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c8tA1-0002Bx-Cz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 13:17:45 -0500 Received: from mail-wm0-f53.google.com ([74.125.82.53]:35729) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c8tA0-0002Bl-3k for 24977@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 13:17:44 -0500 Received: by mail-wm0-f53.google.com with SMTP id a197so162250217wmd.0 for <24977@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 10:17:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=OVPnUsEZi0Ilt/xaY/RAcOEfgRfaYleS/JyB0qEfZQY=; b=xDxD53J7suaFem/mqUX4ALlPlK1BrvzLIcp6f3/ZpJXRgSsKVCNmI1EtxOzKtd1bj4 gbbdCMwQwtTA64XwuHVVa8tMlU7hhtLgUIggovOCk8w77G6zvUlJkFfkyrsqnjGtly6h If2TddQ0k+anGXzvm7yQ/hHcEuYqpyOzurnO/LuG2S5zByla4ExXeYsV8zY194ZPbWN2 ezdyuNPOpvkfu05IU5BaokUPL6BQoS8g8XxjWGS2xlZnfPbXdIK3tDMWZEFGxsC2dFLJ bb/mV5v9rWiVcPHer7za2JQlkY5ywgQEUUUpF/kJRpjF6/1N2aMtDDJ1ASElb+rYRGIb jNgQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=OVPnUsEZi0Ilt/xaY/RAcOEfgRfaYleS/JyB0qEfZQY=; b=LFiZdpq8+HVjv/77dMK1AFFWfyw1Py6bZpCyDqvJBa/JOZpttJWDeHuaLho5u46ZHR azEmeM2mDDRIjZtSujQXNBFYxJ71u37UVhVrHjvp5qs4vBLe0p05xgFx2I2qsaUfGYOf Raf8V1WYqhk1KroVb/d9TT2PgT69JbtJh77hYX4GM0g7KsHHqytYzcF8ef9mFX4FKUTR kDS7HNCUFtUeg8BmNiQovUNexWJWZmWF++nfqC1XE6U3jDgQ3LjR8cNydWcczbybmbSR qK2wmFwO9MAhVOoIlUh4uWvBuqxRQQPUvbDPvDUYo9ekUhKH1jcip2/4WRZAMZTXJCvu lIQg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC02QirFCVQnNMGsJ6wrB4X14gMJrMRsKsHP9JzFicg2K/thBKokfE62FhZoEmYTEew== X-Received: by 10.194.28.33 with SMTP id y1mr10404073wjg.229.1479752258195; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 10:17:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([185.105.173.41]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id i132sm20725920wmf.14.2016.11.21.10.17.35 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 21 Nov 2016 10:17:37 -0800 (PST) References: <87mvgt7wpv.fsf@gmail.com> <3a0885ad-2bca-d446-b8ed-9d1844e900e3@yandex.ru> <70bc6499-70ca-41e5-8ea8-1ac4388ad67b@default> From: Dmitry Gutov Message-ID: <648045b2-2ecb-282c-7171-f24a0f8bded3@yandex.ru> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 20:17:32 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:50.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/50.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <70bc6499-70ca-41e5-8ea8-1ac4388ad67b@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) On 21.11.2016 19:41, Drew Adams wrote: > * Any multiline regexp. We obviously can't support those. > * Any regexp that is outside what the current `grep' syntax uses. Those should be doable, as long as the regexp contains at least _something_ else. So if we identify the examples that are actually important, that would speed things along. From unknown Tue Sep 09 13:19:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24977: 25.1; search and query-replace in Dired Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 18:38:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24977 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Dmitry Gutov , Tino Calancha , 24977@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 24977-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24977.147975343710352 (code B ref 24977); Mon, 21 Nov 2016 18:38:01 +0000 Received: (at 24977) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Nov 2016 18:37:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37351 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c8tSv-0002gu-BC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 13:37:17 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:16766) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c8tSu-0002ge-6l for 24977@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 13:37:16 -0500 Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id uALIbA4Y010093 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 21 Nov 2016 18:37:10 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id uALIb98m023537 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 21 Nov 2016 18:37:10 GMT Received: from abhmp0014.oracle.com (abhmp0014.oracle.com [141.146.116.20]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id uALIb7fx017763; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 18:37:08 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <58aaafd8-4d69-452f-8afe-1cba7b3bc2f8@default> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 10:37:06 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <87mvgt7wpv.fsf@gmail.com> <3a0885ad-2bca-d446-b8ed-9d1844e900e3@yandex.ru> <70bc6499-70ca-41e5-8ea8-1ac4388ad67b@default> <648045b2-2ecb-282c-7171-f24a0f8bded3@yandex.ru> In-Reply-To: <648045b2-2ecb-282c-7171-f24a0f8bded3@yandex.ru> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) > > * Any multiline regexp. >=20 > We obviously can't support those. But the commands whose bindings you displaced DO support them. This is a major reason for this bug report (and bug #23428). The replacement is strictly less powerful. It is essentially just a `grep' or `find'. (And it depends on an outside program.) > > * Any regexp that is outside what the current `grep' syntax uses. >=20 > Those should be doable, as long as the regexp contains at least > _something_ else. What does that mean? Specify what you mean by "_something_ else". Clearly you do NOT mean to support the regexps that Emacs supports. > So if we identify the examples that are actually > important, that would speed things along. See above. If you cannot replace Emacs regexp power, that's OK, as long as we keep also the displaced commands that do provide Emacs regexp power. And those commands should preferably keep their longstanding keybindings. There is _no reason_ that you could not just add your new commands and give them new keys. This seems to have been a gratuitous, and if not arrogant, expropriation. From unknown Tue Sep 09 13:19:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24977: 25.1; search and query-replace in Dired Resent-From: Dmitry Gutov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 18:43:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24977 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams , Tino Calancha , 24977@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 24977-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24977.147975374510871 (code B ref 24977); Mon, 21 Nov 2016 18:43:01 +0000 Received: (at 24977) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Nov 2016 18:42:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37360 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c8tXt-0002pH-4E for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 13:42:25 -0500 Received: from mail-wm0-f41.google.com ([74.125.82.41]:35042) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c8tXr-0002p3-KU for 24977@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 13:42:23 -0500 Received: by mail-wm0-f41.google.com with SMTP id a197so163394281wmd.0 for <24977@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 10:42:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=V7531QdV7THcMHwTSskQPVJLu/r/9zKQ9RuhMna9CS4=; b=un1UD4Gd60pN8X7UZK5Q9YAE4mMOikP9qNWtbMLpNycL5lu0s2zFM2ywS96qlDOdws lEr/L33xh++cRP3KeQdr/QqKWadP83a+qbWmz0E2B2RaOGz9jAND/Cv+KtGgt7uQHfii 5zHVRP+tHrxg4mM6V8JOXBR90MNF2cJ7WNygvFsQNc2AVYOk6IRM3H9Z37bUfpjA04nD mLynxobgC9pXnBhKtCkSHW/DdzXZoGe3V04gh4zTFv84W2uGRxOIBgHlxb7zysiRA47l PShLm0YUfKHcGEpS4LbTFkJ9JMkoZhDcA3Rs0HVu3293eQTCUlEHe6J6eCP5u7fL3sdE Vepw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=V7531QdV7THcMHwTSskQPVJLu/r/9zKQ9RuhMna9CS4=; b=QU3euN3WQpAwXQ1VXFYwDXKeQGtHCszbwRZzhnLhd4+u9ystXYtPqJ7O3h4GQTJkbe CvxNp4HZXMrHNutl6UBmWC4XC8STCw5swEZxVkykIVWQdGX0lCQw4i3QExb7s3JnqqYE 6c+d9cLrO24haU4elvovwGx7DQ/egCYFu+THa/TVDXkG0GvlZ36l6/hc/Xi7lowHFjnL mtkApoc7m/GhrHQHofGvN1H0Zzguqv91jnH7fbhb8xBS8X3w369WRxvf44NV23e4LF81 4DTM+AU9EassYUoZ3vnXpxh9wEnoimFC8CGbnBYpnJ9IMqdjgFH6sqqr5S6sokFfZ4DX o8gg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC01ndo0ALyreXnMg2NVkRlYA/Hq0lfNi9//fX1uEHYQsuGXP87vpnbNO7n57H1/e/Q== X-Received: by 10.28.20.139 with SMTP id 133mr15817470wmu.9.1479753737882; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 10:42:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([185.105.173.41]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id q65sm20994226wmd.6.2016.11.21.10.42.16 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 21 Nov 2016 10:42:16 -0800 (PST) References: <87mvgt7wpv.fsf@gmail.com> <3a0885ad-2bca-d446-b8ed-9d1844e900e3@yandex.ru> <70bc6499-70ca-41e5-8ea8-1ac4388ad67b@default> <648045b2-2ecb-282c-7171-f24a0f8bded3@yandex.ru> <58aaafd8-4d69-452f-8afe-1cba7b3bc2f8@default> From: Dmitry Gutov Message-ID: <8490c105-416f-efef-ebc4-0e1cece68b42@yandex.ru> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 20:42:14 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:50.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/50.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <58aaafd8-4d69-452f-8afe-1cba7b3bc2f8@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) On 21.11.2016 20:37, Drew Adams wrote: > This is a major reason for this bug report (and bug #23428). > The replacement is strictly less powerful. It is essentially > just a `grep' or `find'. (And it depends on an outside program.) It might be less powerful. On the flip side, the replacement is usually faster. Especially in the "many files, few matches" situations. >> Those should be doable, as long as the regexp contains at least >> _something_ else. > > What does that mean? Specify what you mean by "_something_ else". > Clearly you do NOT mean to support the regexps that Emacs supports. For instance, if the regexp contains a simple literal and an Emacs-only construct, we can remove the latter before passing the regexp to find+grep, and then post-process the results inside Emacs using the full syntax. From unknown Tue Sep 09 13:19:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24977: 25.1; search and query-replace in Dired Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 18:52:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24977 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Dmitry Gutov , Tino Calancha , 24977@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 24977-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24977.147975428611794 (code B ref 24977); Mon, 21 Nov 2016 18:52:02 +0000 Received: (at 24977) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Nov 2016 18:51:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37375 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c8tgc-00034A-3O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 13:51:26 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:24820) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c8tga-00033w-PT for 24977@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 13:51:25 -0500 Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id uALIpIcj028096 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 21 Nov 2016 18:51:18 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.14.4) with ESMTP id uALIpHfH025166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 21 Nov 2016 18:51:18 GMT Received: from abhmp0014.oracle.com (abhmp0014.oracle.com [141.146.116.20]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id uALIpHkb015065; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 18:51:17 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 10:51:15 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <87mvgt7wpv.fsf@gmail.com> <3a0885ad-2bca-d446-b8ed-9d1844e900e3@yandex.ru> <70bc6499-70ca-41e5-8ea8-1ac4388ad67b@default> <648045b2-2ecb-282c-7171-f24a0f8bded3@yandex.ru> <58aaafd8-4d69-452f-8afe-1cba7b3bc2f8@default> <8490c105-416f-efef-ebc4-0e1cece68b42@yandex.ru> In-Reply-To: <8490c105-416f-efef-ebc4-0e1cece68b42@yandex.ru> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) > > This is a major reason for this bug report (and bug #23428). > > The replacement is strictly less powerful. It is essentially > > just a `grep' or `find'. (And it depends on an outside program.) >=20 > It might be less powerful. On the flip side, the replacement is > usually faster. Especially in the "many files, few matches" situations. Yes, I acknowledged that the new commands are very good - good UIs and very quick (including the search part, not just the replacement). I have no argument with the new commands. My argument is to keep the old commands as well, with their bindings and menu items, and to give the new commands new bindings and new menu items. I don't even have a problem with Emacs putting the new commands in the forefront somehow, making them more prominent in the doc or whatever. My complaint is quite limited - and reasonable, I think. > >> Those should be doable, as long as the regexp contains at least > >> _something_ else. > > > > What does that mean? Specify what you mean by "_something_ else". > > Clearly you do NOT mean to support the regexps that Emacs > > supports. >=20 > For instance, if the regexp contains a simple literal and an Emacs- > only construct, we can remove the latter before passing the regexp to > find+grep, and then post-process the results inside Emacs using the > full syntax. If I understand what you're saying, that would probably be an improvement, yes. It would need to be pointed out clearly to users that that is what happens. When you kinda sorta sometimes get behavior that is similar to what you might expect (e.g. from the regexp alone), the actual behavior can be all the more confusing if this difference is not described clearly. From unknown Tue Sep 09 13:19:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24977: 25.1; search and query-replace in Dired Resent-From: Dmitry Gutov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 19:51:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24977 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams , Tino Calancha , 24977@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 24977-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24977.147975784017313 (code B ref 24977); Mon, 21 Nov 2016 19:51:02 +0000 Received: (at 24977) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Nov 2016 19:50:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37400 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c8ubv-0004VA-Pg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 14:50:39 -0500 Received: from mail-wm0-f45.google.com ([74.125.82.45]:38117) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c8ubu-0004Uy-IK for 24977@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 14:50:38 -0500 Received: by mail-wm0-f45.google.com with SMTP id f82so768160wmf.1 for <24977@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 11:50:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=EoacjLh2msa49YEL1G9X4xePuG7LvCu18CKZFNIuEQU=; b=hrNLRvsWsQBvrEj33L0YiQHN1y1u+Axcy8iM2MnFWS+cwc6W5ZAKL59f9lnxO0kK0e rN0KdXxLBT7LuuRbB3NTLowEqUoQY1mfDuRhpwxeiD/VlBkVEaoGsTDBmHGxvTe5g7Wb Tvr2nLyNUeIb7yeqXNZnU0RUjruBLTiaW0M+rlRx82tykhVpXy3QEi1yfjuDBgLLXXyS u2ZYsxaJRiwrzH4K3qHcnMcDPx0cK0wkmktktwZ1UVRu+M4BKKrAUeEWpW/1KW9JZP0R D8J2nVq3VYY4Cw07p1hSolzUwsFwXfixcifBDLn+F++GghH++kT+5Mvn82kC16lRoadb d0Sg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=EoacjLh2msa49YEL1G9X4xePuG7LvCu18CKZFNIuEQU=; b=kJDO7z0tzKTenEp+phvVaS6uhGo/Mj/ZK445OZE3rtk+6q+i8cvzThNGLd4nI6b1iL GwlPEkH0iR2yzO1aemOuerEMz7YE4wDwXvG5y3IRaopOEsUrBaMQljGq/NHYpVVI3jp3 9HF4fNItbZH3JISLYgVvoeJsXu8SkD9RSCTmu82XhUpw2U/NYVUdup2HKYzAP+WCPiW4 oo/MVCN5v4+7anaDD2BLyU6Z/hi44fVd6UsrbKo54X6P/UXtCmxAwa5Z/N9M+2wFbf4n swWhErxhCIrEox4ZT8S8lKl6E4X7zA0oYvFsLjgZ6/1y8iMMIJCPqRRRy19DXfcxX8JM tCiQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC002SoGkgvotuW3k4dCeNLw23pTspUinVoU5aDFJ/MCwhsFCKsrkxjoazb68Wc1YIA== X-Received: by 10.28.229.213 with SMTP id c204mr15867692wmh.72.1479757832787; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 11:50:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([185.105.173.41]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id z6sm26691634wjt.24.2016.11.21.11.50.30 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 21 Nov 2016 11:50:31 -0800 (PST) References: <87mvgt7wpv.fsf@gmail.com> <3a0885ad-2bca-d446-b8ed-9d1844e900e3@yandex.ru> <70bc6499-70ca-41e5-8ea8-1ac4388ad67b@default> <648045b2-2ecb-282c-7171-f24a0f8bded3@yandex.ru> <58aaafd8-4d69-452f-8afe-1cba7b3bc2f8@default> <8490c105-416f-efef-ebc4-0e1cece68b42@yandex.ru> From: Dmitry Gutov Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 21:50:29 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:50.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/50.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) On 21.11.2016 20:51, Drew Adams wrote: > I have no argument with the new commands. My argument is to keep > the old commands as well, with their bindings and menu items, and > to give the new commands new bindings and new menu items. Because that wouldn't be confusing. Either the menu items will look almost the same (but perform slightly differently), or they will have to be very long, to describe the difference. > When you kinda sorta sometimes > get behavior that is similar to what you might expect (e.g. from > the regexp alone), the actual behavior can be all the more > confusing if this difference is not described clearly. Indeed. But careful handling of uncertain cases and showing user-error for tricky regexps should make the behavior make sense. From unknown Tue Sep 09 13:19:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24977: 25.1; search and query-replace in Dired Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 21:12:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24977 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Dmitry Gutov , Tino Calancha , 24977@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 24977-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24977.147976266724889 (code B ref 24977); Mon, 21 Nov 2016 21:12:01 +0000 Received: (at 24977) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Nov 2016 21:11:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37475 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c8vrn-0006TN-9S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 16:11:07 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:32132) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c8vrl-0006Sn-3L for 24977@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 16:11:05 -0500 Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id uALLAxec009718 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 21 Nov 2016 21:10:59 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.14.4) with ESMTP id uALLAvlD021543 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 21 Nov 2016 21:10:58 GMT Received: from abhmp0014.oracle.com (abhmp0014.oracle.com [141.146.116.20]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id uALLAu4s022383; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 21:10:56 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 13:10:55 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <87mvgt7wpv.fsf@gmail.com> <3a0885ad-2bca-d446-b8ed-9d1844e900e3@yandex.ru> <70bc6499-70ca-41e5-8ea8-1ac4388ad67b@default> <648045b2-2ecb-282c-7171-f24a0f8bded3@yandex.ru> <58aaafd8-4d69-452f-8afe-1cba7b3bc2f8@default> <8490c105-416f-efef-ebc4-0e1cece68b42@yandex.ru> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) > > I have no argument with the new commands. My argument is to keep > > the old commands as well, with their bindings and menu items, and > > to give the new commands new bindings and new menu items. >=20 > Because that wouldn't be confusing. Either the menu items will look > almost the same (but perform slightly differently), or they will > have to be very long, to describe the difference. They _should_ be similar because the functionality is similar (regexp search & query-replace). Their difference should reflect their main difference. The main difference I see is that one searches using (any) Emacs regexps and the other searches using `find' (with all of its advantages and disadvantages). "... Using `find'" or "... With `find'" in the new menu items is not long, and it says quite a _lot_ about what the command does. > > When you kinda sorta sometimes > > get behavior that is similar to what you might expect (e.g. from > > the regexp alone), the actual behavior can be all the more > > confusing if this difference is not described clearly. >=20 > Indeed. But careful handling of uncertain cases and showing user- > error for tricky regexps should make the behavior make sense. Making some more sense is no doubt possible. Handling some more cases is no doubt possible. But as you said, some things are not possible ("We obviously can't support those"), and any simulation of ordinary Emacs searching would be ad hoc. Again, I have no problem with adding these useful commands. The problem is subtracting the older, also useful commands (and their key bindings). There is no reason to do that.