From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:37:03 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24925: 25.1.50; Suboptimal explanation of FACESPEC in (elisp) Search-based Fontification Resent-From: Michael Heerdegen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 16:21:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 24925 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 24925@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.1478881255903 (code B ref -1); Fri, 11 Nov 2016 16:21:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Nov 2016 16:20:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54110 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c5EZT-0000EU-9F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 11:20:55 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:60340) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c5EZR-0000EE-V5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 11:20:54 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c5EZL-0004OY-Sn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 11:20:48 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:36349) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c5EZL-0004OT-PY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 11:20:47 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51307) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c5EZK-00063q-M8 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 11:20:47 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c5EZH-0004MV-HV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 11:20:46 -0500 Received: from mout.web.de ([217.72.192.78]:64083) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c5EZH-0004M1-84 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 11:20:43 -0500 Received: from drachen.dragon ([90.186.2.120]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb101 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MVchv-1cJhot0Pnz-00Yx2T for ; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 17:20:40 +0100 From: Michael Heerdegen Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 17:20:38 +0100 Message-ID: <87mvh6f0o9.fsf@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:M+2X/acaZcs2i5OM/DyhP6ZY8+Ved5MhKVH10j6s0JTuKuG2hph IHSSoXMYq/Q4Zi6cxTF7txN7lTmg74N6liMATjiNoKVwbXgJmTGews8yoF+tmBevdBKtm5+ uXomBdKfpUdoocKm9RPX19Q3uwBbfPX2oNQmUoUeeUEImgCtkeQbGihql0soEAO5HlQyIRl cnZVg66jSB3DfAChI0pnw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:AmiFT+ACwMY=:CYXWKC1+hnhIhXKWOMlZ1b fwepeOgFDhybWs8y6yjNPEQMPgcWD7rPtRw+r93FfWCPnNzQ8V4Z14RnX871d6U5PcLKlgiL2 Iu65nznoH2sTSStu7YwgQbq4ZqNkY9Yy+mfxnOL0ioa7F7YiMjdqxMQhktb3hMWO+3qd35lKk JSkcunMIrXrCHtkLqD/o7JPagAi8sOnbzINl6/xsN23YfhZXGSW6zoPCQfvuGi9g2mZukCVOB tkYLBZO1beeX6oM0VLb/Nj4MdzTEi1LEpa0TxJlDELiigq0CPQuE6uM4E3uYf/sLUbNbHv+w+ 1xhu3Ov5qmBPB1LsDj4q2IU0B4Q66xYiPFJ7Kf3zNyJ06oMIO+rUABpz44YhEifImTDr7z2nA PS/tFxUbhgZK+RPiH2XgOVIP7R3w09OwJCY2c8BxUAu3TNSdmh+H20rLOyi68Fgo0YdTP+dYp XhFWw3zeGhpD2byw7V5R5+eL1xVlieWtlbpb2h1It3XSssQkIR9b8556Q6tQjHHUSAsBeRaYs Pm0Knk+kX1WjxIc+z5kmJXA9bP42wvK3F7EMj+r+73CMlPikD/LvACqFa+bRbhlg6sQHCxcnM uxIjvBoDg2RdolDKX9eIgAfpS0f0284innDXt0CvKbyR0mUYb6+Psz7I1rt/bRM+aH4xF4+E1 m8UxwUYCkxW4A5cif+S+r2fFXwAnKMDV3EIQJ/xwZAb06UUayOcq+uiweOCGIodjI6LDd26b+ hSWLVF/qYTGRB5Q8JxpLXfxrSQ1AYK5PGAKMZxlAkfyJ+FRGOmajgCcELQm/veuK7wIUHys+P egL3Y3z X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.1 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.1 (----) Hi, Gotten attentive by a question in emacs-help, I want to suggest to improve this paragraph: In this kind of element, FACESPEC is an expression whose value specifies the face to use for highlighting. In the simplest case, FACESPEC is a Lisp variable (a symbol) whose value is a face name. The first sentence is not good because an expression has no associated value. Reading that sentence, the reader might get the false impression that the expression must be constant or a constant (always evaluate to the same value). While this interpretation is not suggesting to the advanced reader, I think lots of Lisp newbies will rely on this part of the documentation, and it's already confusing that faces use a separate name space, but like variables are specified as symbols, so we should try to be non-ambiguous. The second sentence is also confusing: I think the simplest case is actually a face name specified directly, i.e. a quoted symbol. We can mention these both cases in one sentence of cause. Thanks, Michael. In GNU Emacs 25.1.50.8 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.22.2) of 2016-11-10 built on drachen Repository revision: 78aece497ce9dc784d5e3d2707d76766eed2a174 Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11804000 System Description: Debian GNU/Linux testing (stretch) Configured features: XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG IMAGEMAGICK SOUND DBUS GSETTINGS NOTIFY LIBXML2 FREETYPE XFT ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11 Important settings: value of $LC_ALL: de_DE.utf8 value of $LC_COLLATE: C value of $LC_TIME: C value of $LANG: de_DE.utf8 locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:37:03 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24925: 25.1.50; Suboptimal explanation of FACESPEC in (elisp) Search-based Fontification Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 16:40:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24925 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Michael Heerdegen Cc: 24925@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 24925-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24925.14788823522718 (code B ref 24925); Fri, 11 Nov 2016 16:40:01 +0000 Received: (at 24925) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Nov 2016 16:39:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54133 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c5ErA-0000hl-HB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 11:39:12 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:36434) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c5Er8-0000hY-5h for 24925@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 11:39:10 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c5Er0-000444-0P for 24925@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 11:39:05 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:46123) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c5Eqz-00043y-Sv; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 11:39:01 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2658 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1c5Eqz-0001Lb-4v; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 11:39:01 -0500 Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 18:39:05 +0200 Message-Id: <83wpgac6om.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <87mvh6f0o9.fsf@web.de> (message from Michael Heerdegen on Fri, 11 Nov 2016 17:20:38 +0100) References: <87mvh6f0o9.fsf@web.de> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -7.9 (-------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -7.9 (-------) > From: Michael Heerdegen > Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 17:20:38 +0100 > > In this kind of element, FACESPEC is an expression whose value > specifies the face to use for highlighting. In the simplest case, > FACESPEC is a Lisp variable (a symbol) whose value is a face name. > > The first sentence is not good because an expression has no associated > value. ??? An expression certainly can have a value. From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:37:03 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24925: 25.1.50; Suboptimal explanation of FACESPEC in (elisp) Search-based Fontification Resent-From: Michael Heerdegen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 17:07:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24925 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 24925@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 24925-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24925.14788840015111 (code B ref 24925); Fri, 11 Nov 2016 17:07:02 +0000 Received: (at 24925) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Nov 2016 17:06:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54140 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c5FHk-0001KN-Qx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 12:06:40 -0500 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.15.3]:53101) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c5FHi-0001K9-UG for 24925@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 12:06:39 -0500 Received: from drachen.dragon ([90.186.2.120]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb001 [213.165.67.108]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Lcgp5-1cUeLv0q3T-00kBxY; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 18:06:32 +0100 From: Michael Heerdegen References: <87mvh6f0o9.fsf@web.de> <83wpgac6om.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 18:06:27 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83wpgac6om.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 11 Nov 2016 18:39:05 +0200") Message-ID: <87inrueyjw.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:oo1b5FMidIMPypTaN7oASwxMUV5OpafF+qhkJ6AJdSbaHQMYsmz H43QbcV8ZcyJBOcitZMfA4tdLew9LegXCvDAMG3cmaxJr9GZ2Vr+yB3jPVltmtFELlpq080 w0kWz317fsOsYGlxXceWrew05XIce3fkreDb/f1+/G1wBTsOwZQCeAeb0garz65EBFW64Ij K77r+MNfxKzxUe+Bj9maA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:8CRd1+uGD1E=:2SNNfYhkGw0doBjnMvUT0h jbGaotdk78+/haRlZYh+VJ595h2bLyXEuMGYgvbWOHrZfAjDTk7imiDGJ1TLIuByO5/1/Dapx 64NXh56DKed1zar5N40oJq4wgCbuZ4vGhNtj02zFJ3ziORgAOfl+JjARBXykhCrly8qWHfD4B ekEI+E4nsxssrMXTRjArzqVgpflzfDU975n/r2hkUK7JaxmVAgfcCYUBex4xp0dJxHRu6Dg6n S9KADLPPPGYQanrpQ6m+Av7st0Mq+wllzvOaonf+9EyfXF620lNxuv2KiWBJV78dybotcfBOT GUr8OqFnyW1JTshTBCUnQ2PUCY0lMBtit4e3dMhzCnwCNfwbmFLHy2ffzyJcVyZvjo1E7YZ2X wBfXhINmhiNpLVJrZEK9oCM+wOPTPOxTN9X9gav951k3XCnX1WzWOszbEVuKPeVJW7EKGZdwt 7HcOktz2j6rim9UykZhY06/s1uVUukoZuWAKdKSZDVTLmGbFhXnmwHQqx9YvrAJWV/UJfhsJQ dvLMdYZX6uzlfDOXki32pbavwGUaJZ058uHjgYb6gVqi+gBf0Zj8xFhlQDz64YeRF9cteYI7Y Wtm/djAy1Cp8xPgxBKijNfJyHBS0AE6b6kvkX1gmkD3G99codcG/kjH/teixKRoP2ji8JLVp3 7hwkjqJlUQzGOxK7zb88QohEZSXODLk6pTc1HQR28YCJEQA6DA4rPWq/l9tWSgCbCoSsl6zCg F6XirvZazgp7ssASNpgWLvHsDhJy+33YytZmDFovMBfKMoetny+orKPTTxKxfodOaeKPnTBGk 7lITCnt X-Spam-Score: -3.6 (---) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.6 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: > > From: Michael Heerdegen > > Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 17:20:38 +0100 > > > > In this kind of element, FACESPEC is an expression whose value > > specifies the face to use for highlighting. In the simplest case, > > FACESPEC is a Lisp variable (a symbol) whose value is a face name. > > > > The first sentence is not good because an expression has no associated > > value. > > ??? An expression certainly can have a value. I really think that first sentence can be interpreted in different ways when being read - see the rest of what I said. Let's be more specific: say that the expression is evaluated dynamically, and that the according return value at that time is used. In contrast to having "a" value; like evaluating only one time when the spec is added, or expecting the expression to be constant. Michael. From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:37:03 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24925: 25.1.50; Suboptimal explanation of FACESPEC in (elisp) Search-based Fontification Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 17:58:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24925 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Michael Heerdegen Cc: 24925@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 24925-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24925.14788870739806 (code B ref 24925); Fri, 11 Nov 2016 17:58:02 +0000 Received: (at 24925) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Nov 2016 17:57:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54174 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c5G5J-0002Y6-DG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 12:57:53 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:33689) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c5G5H-0002Xt-O3 for 24925@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 12:57:52 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c5G59-0002wL-Dv for 24925@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 12:57:46 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:47705) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c5G59-0002wD-BQ; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 12:57:43 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2680 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1c5G58-0001un-MJ; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 12:57:43 -0500 Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 19:57:47 +0200 Message-Id: <83vavtdhlw.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <87inrueyjw.fsf@web.de> (message from Michael Heerdegen on Fri, 11 Nov 2016 18:06:27 +0100) References: <87mvh6f0o9.fsf@web.de> <83wpgac6om.fsf@gnu.org> <87inrueyjw.fsf@web.de> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -7.9 (-------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -7.9 (-------) > From: Michael Heerdegen > Cc: 24925@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 18:06:27 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > > From: Michael Heerdegen > > > Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 17:20:38 +0100 > > > > > > In this kind of element, FACESPEC is an expression whose value > > > specifies the face to use for highlighting. In the simplest case, > > > FACESPEC is a Lisp variable (a symbol) whose value is a face name. > > > > > > The first sentence is not good because an expression has no associated > > > value. > > > > ??? An expression certainly can have a value. > > I really think that first sentence can be interpreted in different ways > when being read - see the rest of what I said. Let's be more specific: > say that the expression is evaluated dynamically, and that the according > return value at that time is used. In contrast to having "a" value; like > evaluating only one time when the spec is added, or expecting the > expression to be constant. I really don't understand what's bugging you in that text. IMO, it's crystal clear. Perhaps I'm missing something. From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:37:03 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24925: 25.1.50; Suboptimal explanation of FACESPEC in (elisp) Search-based Fontification Resent-From: Michael Heerdegen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 18:26:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24925 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 24925@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 24925-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24925.147888875312448 (code B ref 24925); Fri, 11 Nov 2016 18:26:02 +0000 Received: (at 24925) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Nov 2016 18:25:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54196 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c5GWO-0003Ei-P2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 13:25:52 -0500 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.15.4]:61039) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c5GWM-0003ES-Oh for 24925@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 13:25:51 -0500 Received: from drachen.dragon ([90.186.2.120]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb001 [213.165.67.108]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M73o5-1czr7K2PQr-00wivs; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 19:25:43 +0100 From: Michael Heerdegen References: <87mvh6f0o9.fsf@web.de> <83wpgac6om.fsf@gnu.org> <87inrueyjw.fsf@web.de> <83vavtdhlw.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 19:25:41 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83vavtdhlw.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 11 Nov 2016 19:57:47 +0200") Message-ID: <87eg2hg9ga.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:mRcBbmCjL2+/VYOT3y5B85R3oXzl8K4R1TzkgxvwytlWMsHMta1 jpseL858okjlfC7sCBnPcNucAg1kA1nSx4o/v1JhLwTI+MuuzpSfB/wZRUfQk1LpzMz7gvz 8Zmj3f9tIkSR+jofcL2bnJBzaDu78jloT6ogWh7Is8r/1XXAC3b+9xP2PX48zPzjKlvzbfZ o2AQqGkzxiMlBc/61c+BA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:MQS69cZGhY0=:F+v5bNfjmEmEMPP60QTir9 g7/AC77h7MRXt88lrNvEwrGPRFuI57JM7WgmoCRYe6FKCYVSBqiYxt0GNeRqZUuBz5CC4xkl5 HjTmoFjrPdvfmgUl+tm0ZyxW4jhKWQ2LMEUrh6CAN+FNfo07BsTyykOdnKFUChddAUcFx1hX+ tT+UaZEaXYDXPCACrNiNjPGziiV3doyLhgioKPYzyuTwi1thOFROuPHe+pTlnWvGIbmwTMj1o FLXp1auJpB/NmMJV2oDY95i4g1X+2T0tVQjOtLa0vogaeRXZqvClNvv1LRFMCgqhk06lN7ROW fO0yJC5rafv4sjl2B7yxvMpdf/S96BO7t47XYK1gwVXk2TXaSraatPIOgtQen8mNAB5DU8m5n /cWdWeKC3W8ZOv5ud+rsF36pTX7F3VqpgPAt8hUwTpcZFmJQQia9/ajS8yDmHpwIp9YeCOyMu epo2zohaf8rET5VxFvUvjK4ZBlrBbksgAegB2Ed9jNNTU7FRwv22gYti7OyQvqOGUeV2iWRNx Fspr0097udTvEF8LzIzi04/a9C2P/d9puQAot5+31IVMX21ytf4nddUD1pnSt5XJM2Qu1M8vU aXgHz2HeRtZx0eozk3s/LzKr/W3HcmPmZA+AX7eYF6O5EmvNr/8dn6hpv5irqQcr5Zm3Oeqj9 7Y0lDdEcH4+RsgYluq3lPJTyNLJLViy2Hrke748VIMEt8EivmxFxIiRO0PDXUyqD/E2fqVi1d 110EPAnYFCA/vhuYInZrurcZ/O/U1ubKclDXmNIwbZEXzoVTZl3TzYhOyOHQarXzIoXYOY1gz 8egdv4O X-Spam-Score: -3.6 (---) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.6 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: > I really don't understand what's bugging you in that text. IMO, it's > crystal clear. Perhaps I'm missing something. What about the second sentence I had quoted (talking about "the simplest case")? Michael. From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:37:03 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24925: 25.1.50; Suboptimal explanation of FACESPEC in (elisp) Search-based Fontification Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 19:09:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24925 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Michael Heerdegen Cc: 24925@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 24925-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24925.147889129322701 (code B ref 24925); Fri, 11 Nov 2016 19:09:02 +0000 Received: (at 24925) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Nov 2016 19:08:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54236 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c5HBN-0005u5-D4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 14:08:13 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:51928) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c5HBM-0005tr-4V for 24925@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 14:08:12 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c5HBD-0001S8-P2 for 24925@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 14:08:06 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:49254) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c5HBD-0001S4-Ls; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 14:08:03 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2736 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1c5HBD-00015X-0v; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 14:08:03 -0500 Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 21:08:08 +0200 Message-Id: <83twbddecn.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <87eg2hg9ga.fsf@web.de> (message from Michael Heerdegen on Fri, 11 Nov 2016 19:25:41 +0100) References: <87mvh6f0o9.fsf@web.de> <83wpgac6om.fsf@gnu.org> <87inrueyjw.fsf@web.de> <83vavtdhlw.fsf@gnu.org> <87eg2hg9ga.fsf@web.de> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -7.9 (-------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -7.9 (-------) > From: Michael Heerdegen > Cc: 24925@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 19:25:41 +0100 > > What about the second sentence I had quoted (talking about "the simplest > case")? I don't have any opinions on that, since I'm not experienced enough with font-lock to say which use case is the simplest. From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:37:03 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Michael Heerdegen Subject: bug#24925: closed (Re: bug#24925: 25.1.50; Suboptimal explanation of FACESPEC in (elisp) Search-based Fontification) Message-ID: References: <87twb9sbzo.fsf@web.de> <87mvh6f0o9.fsf@web.de> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 24925 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 24925@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 02:40:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1479177602-16354-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1479177602-16354-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #24925: 25.1.50; Suboptimal explanation of FACESPEC in (elisp) Search-based= Fontification which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 24925@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 24925: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D24925 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1479177602-16354-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 24925-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Nov 2016 02:39:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57545 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c6Tea-0004Ek-8t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 14 Nov 2016 21:39:20 -0500 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.15.3]:62391) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c6TeY-0004EY-S6 for 24925-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 14 Nov 2016 21:39:19 -0500 Received: from drachen.dragon ([90.186.1.180]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb003 [213.165.67.108]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LetUF-1cZzaT35Rv-00qmeF; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 03:39:10 +0100 From: Michael Heerdegen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24925: 25.1.50; Suboptimal explanation of FACESPEC in (elisp) Search-based Fontification References: <87mvh6f0o9.fsf@web.de> <83wpgac6om.fsf@gnu.org> <87inrueyjw.fsf@web.de> <83vavtdhlw.fsf@gnu.org> <87eg2hg9ga.fsf@web.de> <83twbddecn.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 03:39:07 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83twbddecn.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 11 Nov 2016 21:08:08 +0200") Message-ID: <87twb9sbzo.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:Wz1VplmciHXeFBH+o6uxSlB90HW9APMgU+Z2h6Ujl4M5KujGk3F 3bgY++NFKuzGktVHRMNWTU3WOwj7GQRNPxIBdWARqGalL/WfHaUo6S7h8D1yTOqopxRMN4X 9W2IcXSNHtJ6vcJySSfYByVXzB+E9DeD8d6tjqgIM9BcpiqKsdYdQIvfm8QLQOZZk7pqhB7 jkuhyV/sGxgtU6TJiYQxA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:XahFLd5xylM=:ctksjj4IlfRmhyt/V7K/pJ 2iSUObsoUQuUQpmjLgIN5jL5Xn1FByVrT8McEJloumGRh24cF8EOHVBKvvBgEdyIc0SuWg4Hh QD5PNkND2xCw8saG53u3aBh55kZM9BbvrNHCMhbbxFwD5Oq5LyKT9/EVGUH4r3ZMJOzDqXGcf RoSa889w+eJu5cSnlfMz9PQGlyjQ1J0VBpySnnBxh3NU+2jBc1kgPGjh7F5L52lnMJ5hTKpm0 6a3DwCSHsTKo2tdaNuuR5iQH4ldYrDd62DBbYXtbIDfYHYaGOP3sHvUgfnRt9vE6kdLHCZKN8 YEHPyCfQb60xvycWxnlf+jYiB9F7m1epnl6bdsvHuoSY7rhhs9hsP6Qk+CEvabPwV7GRw9nmR QeEPKZyM4NHoFcFrOU0oc39++o7rbfkCl3PJJCMgLPAjmJ5rd3ot9XzyZpsb6F6fAEb4vFwQV e/mgkTaJ1r45R+JILI9+O4lPztOno4VmvuD2meuj0bCPoQO5MKslh3CjeMIykQBPtiUtd7BTk iH8UQtZ8kvrUyyHch+GtshYbMj05BuV/ijpjFKKgk0wDTm5jcipCdRhEjISozoL4iERkBqy8T XbeSvmS5567iGPiZXbTXGdBuIp+jWhvKURA2FjhM5qID7tF0ZcfD2eJRSnZ3zOWacvolK6Y61 8YjhRU/pTomOcN/48YfXYA7bRcdZHaqjGoyt2NL7l+5w2oIdum4giCxYwqLrqn7gnye5DOkxp Ux5cYYMUG78W/lDYHq3EUpEj6EWDEVOhVqgXqYqOxXEoNdGaJVLSvDDn4S0Z4sKcIF+fgQl8k 39yw7R/ X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24925-done Cc: 24925-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: > I don't have any opinions on that, since I'm not experienced enough > with font-lock to say which use case is the simplest. Ok, if it sounds ok to you so far, then don't let's get into bikeshedding. Closing. Thanks, Michael. ------------=_1479177602-16354-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Nov 2016 16:20:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54110 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c5EZT-0000EU-9F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 11:20:55 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:60340) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c5EZR-0000EE-V5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 11:20:54 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c5EZL-0004OY-Sn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 11:20:48 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:36349) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c5EZL-0004OT-PY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 11:20:47 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51307) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c5EZK-00063q-M8 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 11:20:47 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c5EZH-0004MV-HV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 11:20:46 -0500 Received: from mout.web.de ([217.72.192.78]:64083) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c5EZH-0004M1-84 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 11:20:43 -0500 Received: from drachen.dragon ([90.186.2.120]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb101 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MVchv-1cJhot0Pnz-00Yx2T for ; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 17:20:40 +0100 From: Michael Heerdegen To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 25.1.50; Suboptimal explanation of FACESPEC in (elisp) Search-based Fontification Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 17:20:38 +0100 Message-ID: <87mvh6f0o9.fsf@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:M+2X/acaZcs2i5OM/DyhP6ZY8+Ved5MhKVH10j6s0JTuKuG2hph IHSSoXMYq/Q4Zi6cxTF7txN7lTmg74N6liMATjiNoKVwbXgJmTGews8yoF+tmBevdBKtm5+ uXomBdKfpUdoocKm9RPX19Q3uwBbfPX2oNQmUoUeeUEImgCtkeQbGihql0soEAO5HlQyIRl cnZVg66jSB3DfAChI0pnw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:AmiFT+ACwMY=:CYXWKC1+hnhIhXKWOMlZ1b fwepeOgFDhybWs8y6yjNPEQMPgcWD7rPtRw+r93FfWCPnNzQ8V4Z14RnX871d6U5PcLKlgiL2 Iu65nznoH2sTSStu7YwgQbq4ZqNkY9Yy+mfxnOL0ioa7F7YiMjdqxMQhktb3hMWO+3qd35lKk JSkcunMIrXrCHtkLqD/o7JPagAi8sOnbzINl6/xsN23YfhZXGSW6zoPCQfvuGi9g2mZukCVOB tkYLBZO1beeX6oM0VLb/Nj4MdzTEi1LEpa0TxJlDELiigq0CPQuE6uM4E3uYf/sLUbNbHv+w+ 1xhu3Ov5qmBPB1LsDj4q2IU0B4Q66xYiPFJ7Kf3zNyJ06oMIO+rUABpz44YhEifImTDr7z2nA PS/tFxUbhgZK+RPiH2XgOVIP7R3w09OwJCY2c8BxUAu3TNSdmh+H20rLOyi68Fgo0YdTP+dYp XhFWw3zeGhpD2byw7V5R5+eL1xVlieWtlbpb2h1It3XSssQkIR9b8556Q6tQjHHUSAsBeRaYs Pm0Knk+kX1WjxIc+z5kmJXA9bP42wvK3F7EMj+r+73CMlPikD/LvACqFa+bRbhlg6sQHCxcnM uxIjvBoDg2RdolDKX9eIgAfpS0f0284innDXt0CvKbyR0mUYb6+Psz7I1rt/bRM+aH4xF4+E1 m8UxwUYCkxW4A5cif+S+r2fFXwAnKMDV3EIQJ/xwZAb06UUayOcq+uiweOCGIodjI6LDd26b+ hSWLVF/qYTGRB5Q8JxpLXfxrSQ1AYK5PGAKMZxlAkfyJ+FRGOmajgCcELQm/veuK7wIUHys+P egL3Y3z X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.1 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.1 (----) Hi, Gotten attentive by a question in emacs-help, I want to suggest to improve this paragraph: In this kind of element, FACESPEC is an expression whose value specifies the face to use for highlighting. In the simplest case, FACESPEC is a Lisp variable (a symbol) whose value is a face name. The first sentence is not good because an expression has no associated value. Reading that sentence, the reader might get the false impression that the expression must be constant or a constant (always evaluate to the same value). While this interpretation is not suggesting to the advanced reader, I think lots of Lisp newbies will rely on this part of the documentation, and it's already confusing that faces use a separate name space, but like variables are specified as symbols, so we should try to be non-ambiguous. The second sentence is also confusing: I think the simplest case is actually a face name specified directly, i.e. a quoted symbol. We can mention these both cases in one sentence of cause. Thanks, Michael. In GNU Emacs 25.1.50.8 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.22.2) of 2016-11-10 built on drachen Repository revision: 78aece497ce9dc784d5e3d2707d76766eed2a174 Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11804000 System Description: Debian GNU/Linux testing (stretch) Configured features: XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG IMAGEMAGICK SOUND DBUS GSETTINGS NOTIFY LIBXML2 FREETYPE XFT ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11 Important settings: value of $LC_ALL: de_DE.utf8 value of $LC_COLLATE: C value of $LC_TIME: C value of $LANG: de_DE.utf8 locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix ------------=_1479177602-16354-1--