From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Nov 08 07:03:16 2016 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Nov 2016 12:03:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49110 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c457U-0004OW-GW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Nov 2016 07:03:16 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:51690) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c457T-0004OI-4j for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Nov 2016 07:03:15 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c457I-0005aB-2m for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Nov 2016 07:03:10 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:50540) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c457I-0005Zx-04 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Nov 2016 07:03:04 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42629) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c457F-0007c8-TO for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Nov 2016 07:03:03 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c457A-0005XW-Uf for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Nov 2016 07:03:01 -0500 Received: from rrzmta2.uni-regensburg.de ([194.94.155.52]:60278) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c457A-0005WK-JX for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Nov 2016 07:02:56 -0500 Received: from rrzmta2.uni-regensburg.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id B7FF172D0B for ; Tue, 8 Nov 2016 13:02:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de (gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de [132.199.5.51]) by rrzmta2.uni-regensburg.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A30472D74 for ; Tue, 8 Nov 2016 13:02:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from uni-regensburg-smtp1-MTA by gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 08 Nov 2016 13:02:40 +0100 Message-Id: <5821CCED020000A10002326C@gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 14.2.1 Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2016 13:02:37 +0100 From: "Ulrich Windl" To: Subject: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) When trying to insert a Unicode character using new C-X 8 RET, I realized that C-x =3D does not print the unicode name of the character, but just "Char: =E2=80=92 (8210, #o20022, #x2012) point=3D146 of 146 (99%= ) column=3D0" (for example). I think it would be a logical extension to display the Unicode character name also for C-x =3D. In GNU Emacs 25.1.1 (x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2016-09-17 built on LAPHROAIG Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: 'configure --without-dbus --without-compress-install CFLAGS=3D-static' Configured features: XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG SOUND NOTIFY ACL GNUTLS LIBXML2 ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS Important settings: value of $LANG: DEU locale-coding-system: cp1252 Major mode: Lisp Interaction Minor modes in effect: shell-dirtrack-mode: t show-paren-mode: t tooltip-mode: t global-eldoc-mode: t electric-indent-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t line-number-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t Recent messages: c is undefined mouse-2, RET: find variable's definition C-c C-, is undefined C-c C-; is undefined Making completion list... Char: =E2=80=92 (8210, #o20022, #x2012) point=3D146 of 146 (99%) column=3D= 0 ad-Advice-delete-char: Text is read-only [2 times] Making completion list... [2 times] ad-Advice-delete-char: Text is read-only Making completion list... [2 times] Load-path shadows: None found. Features: (shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug message dired rfc822 mml mml-sec epg epg-config mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mail-utils iso-transl apropos noutline outline view ido seq ess-toolbar ess-mouse ess-dde mouseme thingatpt browse-url ess-menu ess-swv ess-noweb ess-noweb-font-lock-mode ess-bugs-l essd-els ess-sas-d ess-sas-l ess-sas-a ess-sta-d ess-sta-l cc-vars cc-defs make-regexp ess-sp6w-d ess-sp3-d ess-julia julia-mode ert pp find-func ewoc debug rx derived ess-r-d ess-r-syntax ess-r-completion ess-roxy essddr hideshow ess-help info reporter ess-r-package ess-s-l speedbar sb-image ezimage dframe ess ess-inf ess-tracebug easy-mmode compile ess-mode ess-noweb-mode edmacro kmacro ess-utils tramp tramp-compat auth-source cl-seq eieio byte-opt bytecomp byte-compile cl-extra cconv eieio-core gnus-util mm-util help-fns help-mode mail-prsvr password-cache tramp-loaddefs cl-macs trampver ucs-normalize shell pcomplete comint ansi-color ring format-spec advice ess-generics cl gv cl-loaddefs pcase cl-lib ess-custom executable easymenu ess-compat ess-site paren cus-start cus-load time-date mule-util tooltip eldoc electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel dos-w32 ls-lisp disp-table w32-win w32-vars term/common-win tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list newcomment elisp-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese charscript case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev minibuffer cl-preloaded nadvice loaddefs button faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote w32notify w32 multi-tty make-network-process emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 436320 22595) (symbols 56 40634 0) (miscs 48 169 311) (strings 32 102604 15754) (string-bytes 1 2535070) (vectors 16 49188) (vector-slots 8 1666056 249236) (floats 8 313 446) (intervals 56 2161 22) (buffers 976 27))=20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Nov 08 07:23:17 2016 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Nov 2016 12:23:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49124 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c45Qr-0004qp-9y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Nov 2016 07:23:17 -0500 Received: from mx2.suse.de ([195.135.220.15]:53999) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c45Qp-0004qg-Ga for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Nov 2016 07:23:15 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at test-mx.suse.de Received: from relay2.suse.de (charybdis-ext.suse.de [195.135.220.254]) by mx2.suse.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 971DDACCE; Tue, 8 Nov 2016 12:23:14 +0000 (UTC) From: Andreas Schwab To: "Ulrich Windl" Subject: Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <5821CCED020000A10002326C@gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de> X-Yow: I know how to do SPECIAL EFFECTS!! Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2016 13:23:13 +0100 In-Reply-To: <5821CCED020000A10002326C@gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de> (Ulrich Windl's message of "Tue, 08 Nov 2016 13:02:37 +0100") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -5.2 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.2 (-----) On Nov 08 2016, "Ulrich Windl" wrote: > When trying to insert a Unicode character using new C-X 8 RET, I > realized that C-x = does not print the unicode name of the character, C-u C-x = does. Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, SUSE Labs, schwab@suse.de GPG Key fingerprint = 0196 BAD8 1CE9 1970 F4BE 1748 E4D4 88E3 0EEA B9D7 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Nov 08 07:25:26 2016 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Nov 2016 12:25:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49129 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c45Sw-0004ty-MY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Nov 2016 07:25:26 -0500 Received: from [219.88.242.56] (port=45586 helo=mail.orcon.net.nz) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c45Sv-0004tp-BF for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Nov 2016 07:25:26 -0500 Received: from [192.168.20.100] ([150.107.172.241]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.orcon.net.nz (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.4) with ESMTP id uA8CPJEF012532; Wed, 9 Nov 2016 01:25:20 +1300 Subject: Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode To: Ulrich Windl , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org References: <5821CCED020000A10002326C@gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de> From: Phil Sainty Message-ID: Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2016 01:25:19 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5821CCED020000A10002326C@gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0: No Bayes scoring rules defined, tokens from: outbound) X-Spam-Score: -1.73 () [Hold at 3.00] FREEMAIL_FROM:0.001, RDNS_NONE:1.274, CC(NZ:-3) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=150.107.172.241; country=NZ; region=Bay of Plenty Region; city=Tauranga; latitude=-37.6686; longitude=176.2664; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=-37.6686,176.2664&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: base:outbound X-Canit-Stats-ID: 01S5opk4A - e95995377edd - 20161109 (trained as not-spam) X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On 09/11/16 01:02, Ulrich Windl wrote: > I think it would be a logical extension to display the Unicode > character name also for C-x =. With a prefix argument -- C-u C-x = -- the unicode character name is displayed amongst all the extended information (and the customize interface allows many additional unicode properties to be added to that display). [...] Content analysis details: (1.3 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (psainty[at]orcon.net.nz) 1.3 RDNS_NONE Delivered to internal network by a host with no rDNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On 09/11/16 01:02, Ulrich Windl wrote: > I think it would be a logical extension to display the Unicode > character name also for C-x =. With a prefix argument -- C-u C-x = -- the unicode character name is displayed amongst all the extended information (and the customize interface allows many additional unicode properties to be added to that display). [...] Content analysis details: (1.3 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (psainty[at]orcon.net.nz) 1.3 RDNS_NONE Delivered to internal network by a host with no rDNS On 09/11/16 01:02, Ulrich Windl wrote: > I think it would be a logical extension to display the Unicode > character name also for C-x =. With a prefix argument -- C-u C-x = -- the unicode character name is displayed amongst all the extended information (and the customize interface allows many additional unicode properties to be added to that display). I'm not sure whether you are unaware of the prefix arg behaviour, or just think this particular value should be added to the standard output? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Nov 08 08:49:23 2016 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Nov 2016 13:49:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49173 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c46mA-0008Sj-TR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Nov 2016 08:49:23 -0500 Received: from rrzmta2.uni-regensburg.de ([194.94.155.52]:40293) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c46m9-0008SV-4y for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Nov 2016 08:49:21 -0500 Received: from rrzmta2.uni-regensburg.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 0D9D472C5E for <24902@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 8 Nov 2016 14:49:15 +0100 (CET) Received: from gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de (gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de [132.199.5.51]) by rrzmta2.uni-regensburg.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D192A60587 for <24902@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 8 Nov 2016 14:49:14 +0100 (CET) Received: from uni-regensburg-smtp1-MTA by gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 08 Nov 2016 14:49:14 +0100 Message-Id: <5821E5E7020000A10002327B@gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 14.2.1 Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2016 14:49:11 +0100 From: "Ulrich Windl" To: Subject: Antw: Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <5821CCED020000A10002326C@gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de><5821CCED020000A10002326C@gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de> (Ulrich Windl's message of "Tue, 08 Nov 2016 13:02:37 +0100") In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: -5.2 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.2 (-----) >>> Andreas Schwab schrieb am 08.11.2016 um 13:23 in Nachricht : > On Nov 08 2016, "Ulrich Windl" wrote: > >> When trying to insert a Unicode character using new C-X 8 RET, I >> realized that C-x = does not print the unicode name of the character, > > C-u C-x = does. Oops, right! But the result is not a status line, but a new window with _lots_ of information, like this (for a different character): --- position: 146 of 146 (99%), column: 0 character:   (displayed as  ) (codepoint 8199, #o20007, #x2007) preferred charset: unicode (Unicode (ISO10646)) code point in charset: 0x2007 script: symbol syntax: which means: whitespace category: .:Base to input: type "C-x 8 RET 2007" or "C-x 8 RET FIGURE SPACE" buffer code: #xE2 #x80 #x87 file code: not encodable by coding system iso-latin-1-dos display: by this font (glyph code) uniscribe:-outline-Courier New-normal-normal-normal-mono-13-*-*-*-c-*-iso8859-1 (#x03) Character code properties: customize what to show name: FIGURE SPACE general-category: Zs (Separator, Space) decomposition: (noBreak 32) (noBreak ' ') There are text properties here: fontified nil --- What I'd like to see is something like this: "Char:   (8199, #o20007, #x2007, "FIGURE SPACE") point=146 of 146 (99%) column=0" Ulrich From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Nov 08 14:53:46 2016 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Nov 2016 19:53:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50005 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c4CSo-0002CD-7Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Nov 2016 14:53:46 -0500 Received: from [219.88.242.56] (port=39471 helo=mail.orcon.net.nz) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c4CSm-0002C3-3y for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Nov 2016 14:53:44 -0500 Received: from [192.168.20.100] ([150.107.172.63]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.orcon.net.nz (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.4) with ESMTP id uA8JrdDm047572; Wed, 9 Nov 2016 08:53:39 +1300 Subject: Re: bug#24902: Antw: Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode To: Ulrich Windl , schwab@suse.de References: <5821CCED020000A10002326C@gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de> <5821CCED020000A10002326C@gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de> <5821E5E7020000A10002327B@gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de> From: Phil Sainty Message-ID: <6859d33b-64c6-0b78-7fea-2dafb5c6646d@orcon.net.nz> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2016 08:53:38 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5821E5E7020000A10002327B@gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0: No Bayes scoring rules defined, tokens from: outbound) X-Spam-Score: -1.73 () [Hold at 3.00] FREEMAIL_FROM:0.001, RDNS_NONE:1.274, CC(NZ:-3) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=150.107.172.63; country=NZ; region=Bay of Plenty Region; city=Tauranga; latitude=-37.6686; longitude=176.2664; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=-37.6686,176.2664&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: base:outbound X-Canit-Stats-ID: 02S5vRDB6 - 00d23b7c104a - 20161109 X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On 09/11/16 02:49, Ulrich Windl wrote: > What I'd like to see is something like this: > "Char:   (8199, #o20007, #x2007, "FIGURE SPACE") point=880 of 880 (99%) > column=0" For long unicode names that's more like: [...] Content analysis details: (1.3 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (psainty[at]orcon.net.nz) 1.3 RDNS_NONE Delivered to internal network by a host with no rDNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On 09/11/16 02:49, Ulrich Windl wrote: > What I'd like to see is something like this: > "Char:   (8199, #o20007, #x2007, "FIGURE SPACE") point=880 of 880 (99%) > column=0" For long unicode names that's more like: [...] Content analysis details: (1.3 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (psainty[at]orcon.net.nz) 1.3 RDNS_NONE Delivered to internal network by a host with no rDNS On 09/11/16 02:49, Ulrich Windl wrote: > What I'd like to see is something like this: > "Char:   (8199, #o20007, #x2007, "FIGURE SPACE") point=880 of 880 (99%) > column=0" For long unicode names that's more like: "Char:   (11137, #o25601, #x2b81, "UPWARDS TRIANGLE-HEADED ARROW LEFTWARDS OF DOWNWARDS TRIANGLE-HEADED ARROW", file ...) point=146 of 146 (99%) column=0" Which is definitely wrapping in an 80 column terminal. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Nov 09 23:56:05 2016 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Nov 2016 04:56:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51557 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c4hPB-0007NR-Hr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 09 Nov 2016 23:56:05 -0500 Received: from pp.amu.edu.pl ([150.254.65.67]:44170) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c4hP9-0007Mw-NL for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 09 Nov 2016 23:56:04 -0500 Received: from localhost (pp.amu.edu.pl [127.0.0.1]) by pp.amu.edu.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9905062100; Thu, 10 Nov 2016 05:55:57 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=amu.edu.pl; h= content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:mime-version :date:date:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:subject:from:from :user-agent:references:received:received; s=pp; t=1478753757; x= 1480568158; bh=KGTmNG3BimTF+BM3G2/iKj1zNhtzK7NcfMT82yM4sLM=; b=F ySKVATWvWZRt01ZUSpaPxb6W8YQ2S0VdEuro0m7RjNqFBTnfYMzfy4CC0wztL9jE 7R3ub3a2IPMHtF8oTGrjS4gjWhHV8VTlavVuRfLGSn8EL0wsZlEgQpiBQjMQIang vxUdcsi9sj2PNyowuKkA26uin+UozU9s23xHh1q0EU= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amu.edu.pl Received: from pp.amu.edu.pl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (pp.amu.edu.pl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id gzJBQzCXAwym; Thu, 10 Nov 2016 05:55:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (static-dwadziewiec-jedenpiec7.echostar.pl [109.232.29.157]) by pp.amu.edu.pl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7D9A462049; Thu, 10 Nov 2016 05:55:54 +0100 (CET) References: <5821CCED020000A10002326C@gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de> <5821E5E7020000A10002327B@gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de> <6859d33b-64c6-0b78-7fea-2dafb5c6646d@orcon.net.nz> User-agent: mu4e 0.9.17; emacs 26.0.50.3 From: Marcin Borkowski To: Phil Sainty Subject: Re: bug#24902: Antw: Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode Message-ID: <87pom46iht.fsf@amu.edu.pl> In-reply-to: <6859d33b-64c6-0b78-7fea-2dafb5c6646d@orcon.net.nz> Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2016 05:56:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: schwab@suse.de, Ulrich Windl , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) On 2016-11-08, at 20:53, Phil Sainty wrote: > On 09/11/16 02:49, Ulrich Windl wrote: >> What I'd like to see is something like this: >> "Char: =E2=80=87 (8199, #o20007, #x2007, "FIGURE SPACE") point=3D880 o= f 880 (99%) >> column=3D0" > > For long unicode names that's more like: > > "Char: =E2=80=87 (11137, #o25601, #x2b81, "UPWARDS TRIANGLE-HEADED ARRO= W > LEFTWARDS OF DOWNWARDS TRIANGLE-HEADED ARROW", file ...) point=3D146 of > 146 (99%) column=3D0" > > Which is definitely wrapping in an 80 column terminal. Fair enough. OTOH, I =3Dwas=3D aware of C-u C-x =3D, but I'd still want = the behavior Ulrich wrote about, possibly enabled through an option. I could actually write a patch to do it, WDYT? Best, --=20 Marcin Borkowski http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science Adam Mickiewicz University From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Nov 10 02:23:27 2016 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Nov 2016 07:23:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51589 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c4jhn-0002Rh-6L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 10 Nov 2016 02:23:27 -0500 Received: from mail-qk0-f182.google.com ([209.85.220.182]:33805) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c4jhl-0002RV-6h for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 10 Nov 2016 02:23:25 -0500 Received: by mail-qk0-f182.google.com with SMTP id q130so285919934qke.1 for <24902@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 09 Nov 2016 23:23:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=udel-edu.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=DTuk1I3mBDnio3WCHAUk44AHyk22e/Ci4fXo130xSJg=; b=td/2GlPVhQHrwkiZ++1SVJBaGhn6LOLNZZ0qCiWPjCh6OmS2pEELGxKbi1aZd4mYFj U+gGwjQKQOmHNr7kabmCRogKdoowvS/3s0GnMkgeuzhR9EuE0eoF+MOq+oV3WCA5r64T zD+PJiTFSYkh2VzefjJ9tqAQLom8WSjY+xnxxBrKQ9dt7/WMuG8XYlcne7GT4cx74ncP GVCMsiiZAL4nwbXFPFfbJZrZ2rWlnUEU5oanLWB38jkh1mPYNzHjwoRdRarqiuiesIjh NFOpMOYn7wzBSV5/HYZr8KMZy/lF0PhxV/9SMtYZhMf9DqjWLZDsfqMIPB+fTA/yako8 rB2A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=DTuk1I3mBDnio3WCHAUk44AHyk22e/Ci4fXo130xSJg=; b=Gaym/0I+E+o3wVtQygA2buMnsOSbWC06zgj8rtLmlePByzOHVw1br2feqqVUz/CzM3 +A2kDg8wpLueqGZiWRdwURrQ+s0ARsLcVBeGXMyqxcbmP3ymNXSdBgFjJJ5414hzATTo uP0GNP36v2CtfvSZvn3d0OuBHZD5lLPiFfWvmezxHuhKeGEE82Y18FRrtXhJ3Sg3EUpO R04t00C0RxflgkrJ7GSAAfEPH+J0YkcYUCpVUlBiJ6T/m7YKQnBn2h3WKK0hNyKy5KYv mehgeqKJDT2zwyJtZB5ZSMcMi2gMMOX6MBe65glxgk458Y6Ns1uoc6PtpLew5p+/Ahor N6YA== X-Gm-Message-State: ABUngvf8Mhtnfq/60jsdIrQL5TZ11aQ+797kV5Dw0j6QZVb/+51uJhuEm1pN5tD2YJgTKz/w X-Received: by 10.233.232.133 with SMTP id a127mr4365559qkg.235.1478762599816; Wed, 09 Nov 2016 23:23:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from holos.localdomain ([69.250.222.218]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q128sm1906534qka.1.2016.11.09.23.23.18 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 09 Nov 2016 23:23:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by holos.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5C533663A6; Thu, 10 Nov 2016 02:23:18 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Oteiza To: Marcin Borkowski Subject: Re: bug#24902: Antw: Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <5821CCED020000A10002326C@gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de> <5821E5E7020000A10002327B@gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de> <6859d33b-64c6-0b78-7fea-2dafb5c6646d@orcon.net.nz> <87pom46iht.fsf@amu.edu.pl> Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2016 02:23:18 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87pom46iht.fsf@amu.edu.pl> (Marcin Borkowski's message of "Thu, 10 Nov 2016 05:56:15 +0100") Message-ID: <87shqzg5nd.fsf@udel.edu> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: Phil Sainty , schwab@suse.de, Ulrich Windl , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) Marcin Borkowski writes: > On 2016-11-08, at 20:53, Phil Sainty wrote: > >> On 09/11/16 02:49, Ulrich Windl wrote: >>> What I'd like to see is something like this: >>> "Char: =E2=80=87 (8199, #o20007, #x2007, "FIGURE SPACE") point=3D880 of= 880 (99%) >>> column=3D0" >> >> For long unicode names that's more like: >> >> "Char: =E2=80=87 (11137, #o25601, #x2b81, "UPWARDS TRIANGLE-HEADED ARROW >> LEFTWARDS OF DOWNWARDS TRIANGLE-HEADED ARROW", file ...) point=3D146 of >> 146 (99%) column=3D0" >> >> Which is definitely wrapping in an 80 column terminal. > > Fair enough. OTOH, I =3Dwas=3D aware of C-u C-x =3D, but I'd still want = the > behavior Ulrich wrote about, possibly enabled through an option. > I could actually write a patch to do it, WDYT? I think describe-char-eldoc is useful for this purpose From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 23 11:20:41 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Jan 2022 16:20:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40964 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nBfbc-0001cP-N9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2022 11:20:41 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:39894) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nBfba-0001c1-LE for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2022 11:20:39 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=OXYwJzOfc2CmbHxM+AVUJ+JE85JFEiLvirxSKnDgOdc=; b=YVOWVvdXqWVW2cchRPqxq894UQ 0yymTpHQ4I6xexrtDFZc/mt6DWJdSRn2G7VQoZYKF5dYOnE5HKC3satQTWD/nAR60zgDedXvuI/G/ 2vG1YoA2mjdtjPS+ympTo0luOYq8X7Qi+FfMub5oNXgMrN8umOWV1xrvhQbcPTFm37Eg=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=giant) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nBfbS-0006W4-5y; Sun, 23 Jan 2022 17:20:32 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: "Ulrich Windl" Subject: Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <5821CCED020000A10002326C@gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de> X-Now-Playing: Hector Zazou's _Reivax au Congo_: "La Poursuite" Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2022 17:20:28 +0100 In-Reply-To: <5821CCED020000A10002326C@gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de> (Ulrich Windl's message of "Tue, 08 Nov 2016 13:02:37 +0100") Message-ID: <87o84277ar.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: "Ulrich Windl" writes: > When trying to insert a Unicode character using new C-X 8 RET, I > realized that C-x = does not print the unicode name of the character, > but just "Char: ‒ (8210, #o20022, #x2012) point=146 of 14 [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) "Ulrich Windl" writes: > When trying to insert a Unicode character using new C-X 8 RET, I > realized that C-x =3D does not print the unicode name of the character, > but just "Char: =E2=80=92 (8210, #o20022, #x2012) point=3D146 of 146 (99%) > column=3D0" (for example). > > I think it would be a logical extension to display the Unicode character > name also for C-x =3D. (I'm going through old bug reports that unfortunately weren't resolved at the time.) As others noted, `C-u C-x =3D' does display this info, and the reason that `C-x =3D' doesn't is because the names can be very long. We could add a user option to include it anyway, but in my opinion, it wouldn't be used much, and users that want this could just add advice to the command to do it instead. So I'm closing this bug report. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 23 11:20:46 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Jan 2022 16:20:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40967 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nBfbi-0001cp-1e for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2022 11:20:46 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:39908) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nBfbg-0001cN-Ls for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2022 11:20:44 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Y/7magy5+TFE/P+KY6g+zO1mAmIcu0jKPB1Ynrr6+Dk=; b=mgj+BvxRWA5Bp+FO+9A6TVC+Bh Zlndi8d3EjY0wpF00jYlKpvmZVNpuOfUaLNOq9VQe3Cfruefilha2pPeOYsqELBZ18tla6fMNoC0Y x9dYAdOS0eJ7BmA3PlHybhWdTreIinqd4fGgM4DVo8nC9BTQLptZgXxhS5P6jTc8ecOE=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=giant) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nBfbZ-0006WB-17 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2022 17:20:39 +0100 Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2022 17:20:35 +0100 Message-Id: <87mtjm77ak.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #24902 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 24902 wontfix close 24902 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) tags 24902 wontfix close 24902 quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 23 11:56:24 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Jan 2022 16:56:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41101 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nBgAC-0005bd-9p for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2022 11:56:24 -0500 Received: from mail-wm1-f51.google.com ([209.85.128.51]:54266) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nBgAA-0005bR-NE for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2022 11:56:23 -0500 Received: by mail-wm1-f51.google.com with SMTP id n8so21348965wmk.3 for <24902@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 23 Jan 2022 08:56:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ALozfvAwOSChmYBJi/wqmZRiI+Y0fObT+xP0lstSbsM=; b=KV7FdECmNnNmrnziSnmRJHTeeSFOLnq3sUU0oqqcVTq+Cis6hma2wqGhyz0KLm1ciT pVMyceMUBPjg2J/AE7k9dxLZfu+VDFOnr8sOe5jhHgK6wb0GIK0dlVhmEimqMoMlOxV2 6cj4FHrR/FW04VDkjUeYyXs+HKxtA5IPO9fsuoE2UlW5PH6oB2zC1zgEuCVyp/wwH9HY +3UsLyqpJ+Hqg1m1hohkb8oLJvlADhSmRnyC9kbFhEyc+9HaGxIzoZ9uluFMyW17HvML QHCCf6rwrxnk+hRhjpwuVc4MNUkduDXYHb0xqHqpJQDXsLwO0N0GMgyFG1qo82KcFCLm Dd9w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ALozfvAwOSChmYBJi/wqmZRiI+Y0fObT+xP0lstSbsM=; b=je4jhqozUMBmGNW4sE2eLfqGMBta+rpEhm1sI2yrWkPJxFgckFPoTvRgZ4Wti1n1jV LK3qM1TSSW13gG6aWSLADvSJ/J8SyGtB4O6PIi4XL9YYd1feIs5tyY62qWVv+q9GRMXv CABa4i52WSTSeuoTQx+pfCDs1l2B+YeBlhfoynre2GgofUmsqSc/qXO9aLpW2mFdBDS1 2rLLHtL93ludz8/+B4wNcUHyvkYherQxMBFAlSFbwxX7VOzdS01vNpHr3FlP8e0EerAi PrJ5wVKfKxbNNnuVBg9Ky81jfb2jUlZ7N6vJJj/8ChqhcbMVldAr3gas9zRoEsToDBmp tZww== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533kJSmkdxCG3c9fOPBuxOnqxEjG+ICi3dxRrZHzqkwZATWysqcq 4i/0NLLEmJI3uiFqvReurAoonqK5pRM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwm9BcAPvXI+cMR1GFGwEadtL/S5IBIj6/58VoUxa17nRL1tTkIgYBhbc9D70Mm6XTcx/qSsQ== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:1d44:: with SMTP id d65mr7973118wmd.96.1642956976633; Sun, 23 Jan 2022 08:56:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from amdahl30 ([2a01:e0a:253:fe0:2ef0:5dff:fed2:7b49]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t4sm10737992wmj.10.2022.01.23.08.56.15 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 23 Jan 2022 08:56:16 -0800 (PST) From: =?utf-8?Q?K=C3=A9vin_Le_Gouguec?= To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <5821CCED020000A10002326C@gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de> <87o84277ar.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2022 17:56:15 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87o84277ar.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sun, 23 Jan 2022 17:20:28 +0100") Message-ID: <871r0ymlw0.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: Ulrich Windl , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > "Ulrich Windl" writes: > >> When trying to insert a Unicode character using new C-X 8 RET, I >> realized that C-x =3D does not print the unicode name of the character, >> but just "Char: =E2=80=92 (8210, #o20022, #x2012) point=3D146 of 146 (99= %) >> column=3D0" (for example). >> >> I think it would be a logical extension to display the Unicode character >> name also for C-x =3D. > > (I'm going through old bug reports that unfortunately weren't resolved > at the time.) > > As others noted, `C-u C-x =3D' does display this info, and the reason that > `C-x =3D' doesn't is because the names can be very long. We could add a > user option to include it anyway, but in my opinion, it wouldn't be used > much, and users that want this could just add advice to the command to > do it instead. > > So I'm closing this bug report. Note that Emacs 27 introduced what-cursor-show-names, which does exactly what is requested in this report IIUC. I'm a happy user of that option, FWIW. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 23 13:44:29 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Jan 2022 18:44:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41271 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nBhqn-0004WI-9H for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2022 13:44:29 -0500 Received: from mail70c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.10.80]:51286) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nBhqk-0004W6-Si for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2022 13:44:28 -0500 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1642963464; bh=x8q8qBuGE8oBIOZkTIzLMudHLuFjbAqzCXfLXWmP/Ao=; h=From:Subject:Date:Cc:To:From; b=asON/JXf6U13dqVOQKsqK5pGMKJRKcDhY4Lzb5zb2aFxktVbZv1mHkVY0Nx6hzRSK o2ZN13kpY48qgN1arOAwsmWFtv1lK8Vz/DPpA1Ss0M6X6AI0sBdStSf8RKXpJkrSBS kHe99o4AiLHFeAyoMqMyRC+0mDx+PMZjdQ9etbtM= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from smtpclient.apple (c-b952e353.032-75-73746f71.bbcust.telenor.se [83.227.82.185]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail70c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 20NIiLb7006716; Sun, 23 Jan 2022 18:44:23 +0000 From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5E68B81C-2D22-4443-9678-9688AA6F8EFC" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode Message-Id: Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2022 19:44:21 +0100 To: Lars Ingebrigtsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A742F1F.61EDA208.0048, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-Origin-Country: SE X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: Ulrich Windl , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) --Apple-Mail=_5E68B81C-2D22-4443-9678-9688AA6F8EFC Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > As others noted, `C-u C-x =3D' does display this info, and the reason = that `C-x =3D' doesn't is because the names can be very long. We could = add a user option to include it anyway, but in my opinion, it wouldn't = be used much, and users that want this could just add advice to the = command to do it instead.=20 If many users would be served by an improved format, perhaps a change = would be warranted after all? My local version replaces the standard Char: =CE=B1 (945, #o1661, #x3b1, file ...) point=3D419 of 423 (99%) = column=3D0 with U+03B1 GREEK SMALL LETTER ALPHA pt=3D419/423 col=3D0 To save space, remove noise, unnecessary and/or obsolete characters. = U+HHHH is the standard notation for code values nowadays; I have little = use for decimal and octal (octal!) numbers although I know how to get = them if I want. Nor do I generally need to see the character itself; = it's right under the cursor. Now almost all Unicode character names fit very comfortably on a single = line in the echo area, and for the rare ones that do not, this area = expands. I'm not going to reopen the bug but believe such a format (or something = similar) would be much more helpful for the typical user. But don't take = my word for it: try running something like the attached code yourself = for a while and see if it doesn't make you happier. I doubt much thought has gone into the present format; it's just an = artefact of history. --Apple-Mail=_5E68B81C-2D22-4443-9678-9688AA6F8EFC Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=my-what-cursor-position.el Content-Type: application/octet-stream; x-unix-mode=0644; name="my-what-cursor-position.el" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ;;; -*- lexical-binding: t -*- (defun my-what-cursor-position (&optional detail) "Like `what-cursor-position', but with important information only." (interactive "P") (if detail (what-cursor-position detail) (let* ((char (char-after)) (char-info (cond ((null char) "") ((<= #x3fff80 char #x3fffff) (format "#x%02X (raw byte) " (logand char #xff))) (t (format "U+%04X %s " char (or (get-char-code-property char 'name) (get-char-code-property char 'old-name) "(undefined)"))))) (beg (point-min)) (end (point-max)) (narrow (if (and (= beg 1) (= (1- end) (buffer-size))) "" (format " <%d-%d>" beg end)))) (message "%spt=%d/%d%s col=%d" char-info (point) (buffer-size) narrow (current-column))))) (global-set-key (kbd "C-x =") 'my-what-cursor-position) --Apple-Mail=_5E68B81C-2D22-4443-9678-9688AA6F8EFC-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 24 04:21:41 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jan 2022 09:21:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42072 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nBvXh-0005Wk-9R for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 04:21:41 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:47988) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nBvXf-0005WY-NO for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 04:21:40 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=WE0GrWltEqTiK0A4ze42c1riNbkcRfBMHAkQMw9ZDb4=; b=h5oHl57aO43vbAQEqggntzi9dJ xAv5ys4J5NSk/HenDkcbdmOfH57OfejpQLkJSgCSjRR/+EgtB7qgWsCkGb+1mZSKZEuvbHIxeetp6 07DMhFLaUwRDPWuEsBHmqN7c/WLzOad8DARZv6SFkNALvcwPnADrrPibg/hUN03IUJ1U=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=giant) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nBvXX-0006EG-4w; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 10:21:33 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Subject: Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAALVBMVEUDBQwfGCEtLTFs bHCrrLDR0dXw8PJ9fYFgWmGPkJS9vcFFOEN+f4NNTVH///8PU95gAAAAAWJLR0QOb70wTwAAAAd0 SU1FB+YBGAkIHpkDiBsAAAGcSURBVDjLrZJNS8NAEIZn41GEJD1JKdR4qUgOtRWtKFj6oRFvNZV6 bgb0rHfRXEQEKanQYg8iLejR/gm9qfUQkf4Xt5umH7vrzXchsPtk5t2dGYCRNNDTZRzosIgIk1Lc AFSKjj0FIOExUlq1n6cB6N06BY/uQR54kTvEnUtrUwAwX8ZcKtUXgVLE3P2LKgL9DHOND96A/hjd wFL+nQd0RV08zp9zYE4FNZbGqscD0EyIFPAkLQBwkzP0hRneA0ii5UqBppv05ZgSUhGtW6DgVfRQ WEtqosfiIACzfEV0I+hhlj83/TpKADH8NZYJH7i7Gv5bh4Ft3qF3GkzDrQA8lAHN6DWlAHT/D0BM NnFOmTOnId9tu4xHQgNpRfbatm21wr15HU5FzCtgpXExuo42KJrGQAedfGs6zbjq1fgwgBWZfZRB Y9FphZnooJEgjAHcV4cgDADyxcAu25GJdgXAqY1dQy1Rc9tKjvZqGBcp2E83C+oEGCqaaayAVHrf iMtJLLP+KTtXek1ry5CAWf/K+tElgCwbfbkJgf/WL9tlhd4YWsDQAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0 ZQAyMDIyLTAxLTI0VDA5OjA4OjMwKzAwOjAw7+6+lQAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMi0w MS0yNFQwOTowODozMCswMDowMJ6zBikAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: This Mortal Coil's _Filigree & Shadow_: "Firebrothers" Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 10:21:30 +0100 In-Reply-To: ("Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd=22's?= message of "Sun, 23 Jan 2022 19:44:21 +0100") Message-ID: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Mattias EngdegÃ¥rd writes: > To save space, remove noise, unnecessary and/or obsolete > characters. U+HHHH is the standard notation for code values nowadays; > I have little use for decimal and octal (octal!) numbers although I [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: Ulrich Windl , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd writes: > To save space, remove noise, unnecessary and/or obsolete > characters. U+HHHH is the standard notation for code values nowadays; > I have little use for decimal and octal (octal!) numbers although I > know how to get them if I want. Nor do I generally need to see the > character itself; it's right under the cursor. Emacs defaults to showing some things in octal, so showing octal here isn't that absurd... > Now almost all Unicode character names fit very comfortably on a > single line in the echo area, and for the rare ones that do not, this > area expands. `C-x 8 e d' says what the name of the character is. Perhaps it should also include the hex value... --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 24 05:40:11 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jan 2022 10:40:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42303 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nBwlf-0002gJ-1l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 05:40:11 -0500 Received: from mail18c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.10.28]:37884) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nBwla-0002fv-MQ for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 05:40:09 -0500 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1643020804; bh=53yjneRPSggqJw6y3y7SdfA5AP+10IceO6nKfYVC2jg=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=H5y0HAxDBHPuHJ6BdkHEozgdnwRKZZhAgdKPLZgAabP52bD05++sWjbCK7xbnUXe+ H5gotjjKOGsEZFHe3AV0TiX+fVu358P6X1Hm2QUg4KYtlyHAnAsUTJCYUh8Bfp6B7R Qa4nuKLYQEhvWcjGDm852nqizyda2PNKu7h7jFwA= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from smtpclient.apple (c-b952e353.032-75-73746f71.bbcust.telenor.se [83.227.82.185]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail18c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 20OAe105017974; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 10:40:03 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 11:40:01 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A742F1A.61EE8204.0013, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-Origin-Country: SE X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: Ulrich Windl , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) 24 jan. 2022 kl. 10.21 skrev Lars Ingebrigtsen : > Emacs defaults to showing some things in octal, so showing octal here > isn't that absurd... What things would that be? The only ones I can think of are raw bytes = and some control characters. The only reason why C-x =3D shows octal is inertia. If you wrote the = command today, you would not include octal. This is just another Immovable Ladder in Emacs. It must be preserved = exactly as it is, for the sole reason that it has always been this way. > `C-x 8 e d' says what the name of the character is. Perhaps it should > also include the hex value... Or perhaps we could improve the more commonly used and accessible `C-x = =3D` to show both? I could write a patch to change it (with an option to keep the Good Old = Times look for the traditionalist), but there's no point if it would be = dismissed out of hand. Would it? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 24 06:00:45 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jan 2022 11:00:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42342 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nBx5Z-0006KD-7N for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 06:00:45 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:49422) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nBx5X-0006CT-9f for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 06:00:43 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=iWUoM4NJgb8yDgZzuKR2RkZ4pX+7CPJBMn7UltY7LWA=; b=Nb8If3649YzcUVI1mjpSqgxXtc ifSdd3Zxi8l/b4dkkKulvhw+EPb927eq62wCpquAo+hrd3MPB/gZc5+1gRFN0iqsoj0ispcMxv+Rg GB/X1F5TSds4HkwYSpE+dvAC8WhyTlsL8n18Wuatso7Z50HHUJtEiv6B1m4ZRz13mSXY=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=giant) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nBx5O-0006z0-7N; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 12:00:36 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Subject: Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAD1BMVEVOLx5sTzebe1w1 HBD///+j3/jWAAAAAWJLR0QEj2jZUQAAAAd0SU1FB+YBGAonI9ExQj4AAAG3SURBVDjLdZMBmqsw CIRBLkDIBUx6ASz3v9sOxKfdZzdV24/fwDCkRNxMJCJkKuXifISTMlnGHwA/rC9AF5AEdIIguXeI k2uzhsVtWl24bTQl5wwrPoiMujLSUUZbFY9GH8W56idwsRs0vOQinoD7B5g7HnrtYDoXlz7U0qph s51l2nFKpwKHMJ8EnVEWoCVLpRIXcDp65s/wMdGwEqNwG0Tv9APAxzHwxcQdUkejty6nwngu8/De Bkvs1HTYMNUFgpuQDS/gaZ/CVcKLrk7b4KWJ4WnKZ0VCYXrDyiKeZkda0gGgjJr1zOuz0uMMYNoA o13gVRsJxSZ2DmXrc4csWJr9sBiMCRq7W9aNY7C29LQ3FAmyPSaGvOmB5Dnllq4jVes+pg7evQwU qMqEdYR4G4Jo1ADIS0kq5LCRDUjd6D3Ny8PIPrYBv6X8z/HUFji17U3fe7ZPNYHVThwvQwfWz4ic iOL9ctt9epyTvAD+Hg5L14G4F8WYeDX8CWjEkvcA7V9D/wE0eNX9DeiWktVu8GvJDR5JPnfIX4D+ Av4FHN9L+DrtXzbkPJ5+QOmaljwSBX3NhMH+AHO6jF9ZIPSgAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAy MDIyLTAxLTI0VDEwOjM5OjM1KzAwOjAw0Wx3kwAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMi0wMS0y NFQxMDozOTozNSswMDowMKAxzy8AAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: The Smiths's _The World Won't Listen_: "Asleep" Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 12:00:31 +0100 In-Reply-To: <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> ("Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd=22's?= message of "Mon, 24 Jan 2022 11:40:01 +0100") Message-ID: <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Mattias EngdegÃ¥rd writes: > What things would that be? The only ones I can think of are raw bytes > and some control characters. Yes, that's what I was thinking of. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: Ulrich Windl , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd writes: > What things would that be? The only ones I can think of are raw bytes > and some control characters. Yes, that's what I was thinking of. > The only reason why C-x =3D shows octal is inertia. If you wrote the > command today, you would not include octal. > > This is just another Immovable Ladder in Emacs. It must be preserved > exactly as it is, for the sole reason that it has always been this > way. I never use octal myself and have configured Emacs to display raw bytes as hex, so I agree with the first assertion. But the latter isn't a very friendly caricature. The reason we don't remove all the octal stuff from Emacs is that it'd annoy a significant number of people. >> `C-x 8 e d' says what the name of the character is. Perhaps it should >> also include the hex value... > > Or perhaps we could improve the more commonly used and accessible `C-x > =3D` to show both? > > I could write a patch to change it (with an option to keep the Good > Old Times look for the traditionalist), but there's no point if it > would be dismissed out of hand. Would it? Making a format-spec thing for `C-x =3D' would be fine by me. I don't understand the aggression here, though. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 24 06:16:29 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jan 2022 11:16:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42366 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nBxKm-0001A9-OQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 06:16:29 -0500 Received: from mail-wm1-f46.google.com ([209.85.128.46]:39829) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nBxKl-00014V-3s for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 06:16:27 -0500 Received: by mail-wm1-f46.google.com with SMTP id o1-20020a1c4d01000000b0034d95625e1fso19423479wmh.4 for <24902@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 03:16:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ry3kicIB0Z9+H74R9hsTvKvlittAw8ti6ZHuyvhtIZE=; b=VwAHah2dM5D7kouI3l57Ki5TVUWPNOTewOyXnvCXdkUzDCG5UI/tCBMeeqmwUjlc7B o/E1lAP2dCCjq+Dc04iGrtFTCf87tNziDgeVInPTVIvConXlf5jdbXP9uJGpXx+GvNck nwAtMUncMuidRfkrAd09Hev5zDrn2RJUb3QxbOkkMn7otOU05V5jEEWJE145drK0Vvqy +J3lJ0zSRyeW691OvN31xEVE5U9tjZ0rRkc3qEAKBj0FAEg0mJmoa99d16PYVdFmGmEx gtM4ppCPcfLPIcsPTP/7VbtwomcWwCfRByjSjNqpGyK5U9xUNO2iR2R2xVot7yMsKM/l MVjw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ry3kicIB0Z9+H74R9hsTvKvlittAw8ti6ZHuyvhtIZE=; b=AP6RnvxFYWB5cU4xzYnOVG/N5LjlHsXJlaA36ZDi589L1JwHBbppAbDmNtBohF4MM2 UuwOEXvmDnxeKRQ7kjZVfbN7F28Qd4nrVekK3Enu9K8zdgi1SGvPbWda2GzbjVmipO7L B2ANieJhMHwChy4hzuqtOrrtCxh5La6Po9x/rRiMMtZ1qeVKtYiE8b7n/QcJqdQbDUyW 6zsj0ikM0ovGcptZiOZL6hBruMAxo90MJVLii5rQfHWvvNDgjwQriub7hpSIm5fRZ03M K8OwTGRYugsgNm0yswBdrRw2Xs8lgx0j4uDAuf5FdXmPhxR86vc506T4gNBvA4OLHIRC y4nQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530tQXowLp7UVNdj61l9ktJrOhLgr/Xxbx2wCEmg36MEq4qd/ANs ftYIv3C1LKtjAoyZJjtxsJDbkt5VSgk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwML1Cy3rwnigpksYgAmNX7jUqHAWq4HKqBnGoRtJnxYHDne9ra1FH603SZrlGioqLMgkdoCw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:4e09:: with SMTP id b9mr1381880wmq.194.1643022980961; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 03:16:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from rltb ([2a01:e0a:3f3:fb50:a941:80ce:6692:e00b]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m14sm5445741wrp.4.2022.01.24.03.16.20 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 24 Jan 2022 03:16:20 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Pluim To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Subject: Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 12:16:19 +0100 In-Reply-To: <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> ("Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd=22's?= message of "Mon, 24 Jan 2022 11:40:01 +0100") Message-ID: <875yq9jse4.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Ulrich Windl , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 11:40:01 +0100, Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd said: Mattias> 24 jan. 2022 kl. 10.21 skrev Lars Ingebrigtsen : >> Emacs defaults to showing some things in octal, so showing octal here >> isn't that absurd... Mattias> What things would that be? The only ones I can think of are ra= w bytes and some control characters. Mattias> The only reason why C-x =3D shows octal is inertia. If you wro= te the command today, you would not include octal. Mattias> This is just another Immovable Ladder in Emacs. It must be pre= served Mattias> exactly as it is, for the sole reason that it has always been = this Mattias> way. >> `C-x 8 e d' says what the name of the character is. Perhaps it shou= ld >> also include the hex value... Mattias> Or perhaps we could improve the more commonly used and accessi= ble `C-x =3D` to show both? Mattias> I could write a patch to change it (with an option to keep the= Good Mattias> Old Times look for the traditionalist), but there's no point i= f it Mattias> would be dismissed out of hand. Would it? I sense a discoverability issue related to 'what-cursor-show-names' :-) (FWIW I agree about the octal, but that is another discussion) Robert --=20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 24 06:27:49 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jan 2022 11:27:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42373 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nBxVl-0002SZ-6T for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 06:27:49 -0500 Received: from mail-wr1-f43.google.com ([209.85.221.43]:44989) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nBxVi-0002SG-N3 for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 06:27:47 -0500 Received: by mail-wr1-f43.google.com with SMTP id k18so12926711wrg.11 for <24902@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 03:27:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=9bUlbCGQBeGTKBVGUMXE9FBOHkbFwlS0olM8WrjaAZs=; b=ZkTNugL1rkbylLTmhBuSB2SgM8GVPdlK/3X/Czm+b85QEqJMdlX3Fhjys4YhnEw0IJ hctGSFwtBPLwUf1IchOtxhL9Q3lrCvNrGoxfRZIdS4UtWgp3Q7arBhUatEUrDC5XnzoA BG1HMB7jV5Nb3MBEsEqSu/S0IUn082akrg7g5befnIy9Y8tqGiC0xIFe+M/2YlAxr7yD kJTRB2rtRu2Jttm0FQl4Wn3/vwrdr3g0EXkV9x2EC/yQXiHHXDjRdU7YnABsUDGKZ1Z9 IuSMwhfRoyqVMFhloyPfTlhWhLi50tepOpHyFuCnTvsPYpHliTNgfhR9T7R2kTylhEPu VG9Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=9bUlbCGQBeGTKBVGUMXE9FBOHkbFwlS0olM8WrjaAZs=; b=eU4PO8dKTulVvpK4tTsL7uL/Bj4+6qaKdmUs6jnOBDEAWvoJI1ztz4zLsie/sWuTbu n5DSily8zHpH6P4Hmj+kBP4ZnxWWKfXQ1fO1XkzbgKQAl9U/i5Rqs3AOj0oJlhD7KJFA ffGyycPRWTH767TmwPiP8toEGLLZOeVtoXiWa9EE2jawwgtN60fuP0DzsJXauB+o7oaa S8DjCqnzXExTK5BOjxvk6VRn4Ta3jvz6OPpzT3H5KB250s0C+6s19VaBbAkkOjiW3thL wAMynG0MGz8hRbRZA8OhHZL3/IfKA0hVduL0zP2FGkgEvNl1uwqVnmk4IDtfPkmZ69RS hqRw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533zOrNUY7BwaqU0srdrEBhOeV/rrPb4PL2UOyQ5eEW2WGi73Jk1 hKv7lxIyeonwfwcMLAHq312qqUYgwtY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzTcmhlXfeGHi47SoM5zKP8Ia3z2kgRJflX6eeWaANusAOpJa8v8hrPnEcKSwkHO8NP5wAtew== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:18ac:: with SMTP id b12mr3538420wri.81.1643023660580; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 03:27:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from rltb ([2a01:e0a:3f3:fb50:a941:80ce:6692:e00b]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t5sm13983866wrw.92.2022.01.24.03.27.39 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 24 Jan 2022 03:27:40 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Pluim To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 12:27:39 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Mon, 24 Jan 2022 12:00:31 +0100") Message-ID: <871r0xjrv8.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= , Ulrich Windl , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 12:00:31 +0100, Lars Ingebrigtsen said: Lars> Making a format-spec thing for `C-x =3D' would be fine by me. As long as that was for 'C-x =3D' only, and not 'C-u C-x =3D' I guess that would be OK, although the only possible use I would have for it would be to not show the octal. The octal is a very minor irritant, so I=CA=BCm not sure it=CA=BCs worth the effort. Robert --=20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 24 09:09:55 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jan 2022 14:09:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42642 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nC02d-0003RL-6O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 09:09:55 -0500 Received: from mail1452c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.14.52]:37068 helo=mail266c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nC02a-0003R4-NE for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 09:09:53 -0500 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1643033386; bh=rfDqMWX+AIjQ/h8d8IIEq8JEmGs63mtI+lVLCnLErXM=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=Gp+C3U23wp6iCai6PkrDmm5qqmRBlIWSCrdsuGmF35A6z911az5+i+tZCQQRPTj/0 tpkCSuzqstLBt3364VSvjP9mGrPX+LlkK+T4EeLvfiJOOrEs9x67ROnj2yk9QL0T8z 5hitDxi66EByne1uUgUBzj3hCDvWoLtweHnQjSR8= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from smtpclient.apple (c-b952e353.032-75-73746f71.bbcust.telenor.se [83.227.82.185]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail266c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 20OE9h5f001936; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 14:09:44 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 15:09:43 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <66A36684-9C30-4EBA-A55F-35D55C426DAA@acm.org> References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A742F27.61EEB32A.0028, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-Origin-Country: SE X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: 24 jan. 2022 kl. 12.00 skrev Lars Ingebrigtsen : > The reason we don't remove all the octal > stuff from Emacs is that it'd annoy a significant number of people. Oh, that is perfectly understood, and please do believe that I'm not accusing you of stubborn conservatism! But being human, you and I both are capable of making sometimes less than perfect decisions [...] Content analysis details: (1.4 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.4 KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS Relay HELO differs from its IP's reverse DNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: Ulrich Windl , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) 24 jan. 2022 kl. 12.00 skrev Lars Ingebrigtsen : > The reason we don't remove all the octal > stuff from Emacs is that it'd annoy a significant number of people. Oh, that is perfectly understood, and please do believe that I'm not = accusing you of stubborn conservatism! But being human, you and I both = are capable of making sometimes less than perfect decisions for = excellent reasons such as not wanting to annoy people. We then fail = taking into account the people that are annoyed by these decisions. There is no perfect solution to this problem but fearless discussion is = a good start. > Making a format-spec thing for `C-x =3D' would be fine by me. That would of course also be possible, but I'm not sure the complexity = (in implementing, maintaining and using it) would be warranted. What = about just starting with two choices, old and new, while honouring the = existing `what-cursor-show-names` variable in the former case? A more = complex user-define format could be added as a later alternative. > I don't understand the aggression here, though. My sincerest apologies -- none were meant. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 24 11:07:01 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jan 2022 16:07:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45432 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nC1rx-0005dY-Cj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 11:07:01 -0500 Received: from mail33c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.10.43]:39902) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nC1rv-0005dP-HC for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 11:07:00 -0500 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1643040417; bh=YwUMPR9/431NdwdCTWRyKrqfm7GJ4ZSmMGwld1xNycU=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:From; b=SU+N64mttqtt8iw0RUPcf1CZBYaZ5qRUF3+1q4hzY7t687mc9MoYOjFavD80RfEpR ZkCn9rZUm+869EpA8u5guDMDth7uJqY9AZXeufl3r9c2LzyoLSnhY1lR0iLgP8hhSw w4TTcOJaSTQx3ESBlqp+ELvEHAj6+DWboUU5laEI= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from smtpclient.apple (c-b952e353.032-75-73746f71.bbcust.telenor.se [83.227.82.185]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail33c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 20OG6sBw024671; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 16:06:56 +0000 From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_3DFF13D7-79AC-4CF9-90B3-D38C1ED0B681" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 17:06:54 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A742F26.61EECEA1.0037, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-Origin-Country: SE X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: Ulrich Windl , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) --Apple-Mail=_3DFF13D7-79AC-4CF9-90B3-D38C1ED0B681 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Attached is a draft patch. It does not change the output of = `describe-char`, which is invoked from `C-u C-x =3D`. The `traditional` = format is unchanged; the new format is designed to be informative and = reasonably free from clutter. --Apple-Mail=_3DFF13D7-79AC-4CF9-90B3-D38C1ED0B681 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0001-Cleaner-what-cursor-position-format.patch Content-Type: application/octet-stream; x-unix-mode=0644; name="0001-Cleaner-what-cursor-position-format.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =46rom=201893b401d5da2734e1588e98fbb45151af871088=20Mon=20Sep=2017=20= 00:00:00=202001=0AFrom:=20=3D?UTF-8?q?Mattias=3D20Engdeg=3DC3=3DA5rd?=3D=20= =0ADate:=20Mon,=2024=20Jan=202022=2016:49:08=20+0100=0A= Subject:=20[PATCH]=20Cleaner=20`what-cursor-position`=20format=0A=0AAdd=20= a=20new=20`C-x=20=3D`=20output=20format,=20under=20the=20control=20of=20= the=20new=0A`what-cursor-format`=20user=20option,=20that=20uses=20more=20= modern=20formatting=0Aand=20omits=20noise=20syntax=20and=20rarely=20used=20= information.=20=20It=20always=0Aincludes=20the=20character=20name.=0A=0A= *=20lisp/simple.el=20(what-cursor-format):=20New.=0A= (what-cursor-show-names):=20Explain=20relation=20to=20= `what-cursor-format`.=0A(what-cursor-position--default,=0A= what-cursor-position--traditional):=20New=20functions.=0A= (what-cursor-position):=20Reduce=20to=20calling=20the=20right=20back-end=20= function.=0A*=20etc/NEWS:=20Announce.=0A---=0A=20etc/NEWS=20=20=20=20=20=20= =20|=20=206=20++++=0A=20lisp/simple.el=20|=2078=20= ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++------------=0A=202=20files=20= changed,=2065=20insertions(+),=2019=20deletions(-)=0A=0Adiff=20--git=20= a/etc/NEWS=20b/etc/NEWS=0Aindex=203f6b2d2a1f..a9b4151bd9=20100644=0A---=20= a/etc/NEWS=0A+++=20b/etc/NEWS=0A@@=20-176,6=20+176,12=20@@=20wheel=20= reports.=20=20Unlike=20'pixel-scroll-mode',=20this=20mode=20scrolls=20= the=0A=20display=20pixel-by-pixel,=20as=20opposed=20to=20only=20= animating=20line-by-line=0A=20scrolls.=0A=20=0A+**=20New=20user=20option=20= 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=20(interactive=20"P")=0A+=20=20(when=20detail=0A+=20=20=20=20= (describe-char=20(point)))=0A+=20=20(cond=0A+=20=20=20((eq=20= what-cursor-format=20'default)=20=20=20=20=20= (what-cursor-position--default))=0A+=20=20=20((eq=20what-cursor-format=20= 'traditional)=20(what-cursor-position--traditional))))=0A=20=0C=0A=20;;=20= Initialize=20read-expression-map.=20=20It=20is=20defined=20at=20C=20= level.=0A=20(defvar=20read-expression-map=0A--=20=0A2.32.0=20(Apple=20= Git-132)=0A=0A= --Apple-Mail=_3DFF13D7-79AC-4CF9-90B3-D38C1ED0B681-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 24 11:28:52 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jan 2022 16:28:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45489 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nC2D6-0008WG-6f for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 11:28:52 -0500 Received: from mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.165.32]:63824) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) 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"24902@debbugs.gnu.org" <24902@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) If you're going to offer a user option to choose the format, why not allow = that option value to also specify the format, instead of providing only two= possible formats? IOW, have a defcustom `choice' that includes the two for= mats you're providing but also lets users specify a format (for the same da= ta). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 24 11:35:31 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jan 2022 16:35:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45507 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nC2JX-0002Wl-4o for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 11:35:31 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:52992) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nC2JV-0002WY-P9 for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 11:35:30 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=a84JSNxTRYsIi3Zq8/9lTz92s/fwQbF/nq9U9wUYUU0=; b=N6f0nLYWPhFNeqwUIZzasLwag8 3LxNPKBizjQVGI7IE9Y3drKupDnFeMqN3PAWS17KIxB9TuIWwwY96DqQFGinrU1zGa+33y633WGkq UiffnFnZzpi0AwxSnock2yJdWYKMAo0YfCVQkJuvWtwEzewUheA/nDkM7MvkaG6TNXRw=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=giant) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nC2JN-000165-2U; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 17:35:23 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Subject: Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAD1BMVEXt9Ni5w6KIknZR Tkn///+5aDmTAAAAAWJLR0QEj2jZUQAAAAd0SU1FB+YBGBAbC4bGtZ0AAAGjSURBVDjLbZOBkcQg CEUl24CwDQRs4CL993YfMW7cOzKTmfAE5ENKCeOwWv4YMZsOBGiPA8xiwky1aKFaC8H1AQZA+Nbx plUCgFVZ+cAZIv4APGqiVcSM9bqLR+lKqFIUVUTPda2ve95XG03k17jzfqpdeZh2P0vrmXVFRH5R 0Qnw3JXh7x0g1KClGuGSSG8mLjWbqutm0lTM+4z4SEsCcd29j7ZoAeHm9ga46t3SAJiEwZr7SCXn Aia9eWc306c8ZAO4uWsfmW2G9A6fO4KKR4Kllcf5KF0Oz3HOXGY+Qs7yDoApawKxzFVLcygbmiR4 e6ZSa1rDd8wiBwr38Md3JcxchmiFoEWDumhMThYRpZzlESqNVNZ+cjz1TjWsQ5Wr3EuYqYZBsQHO J7hktN40tZtB0RzllWPqbLxAh7AD2HNS0ATjS+D1CbDFPrv3bQulYRHcppIPOwJwgp8NeNM5kx28 vNXZ5J8IRkQ8fu3AYm9fOd/nj+F2No5F6a7br+HWrthEl2470FbRpeFX2Bos7RpL+uWNdejFvv/b BFr+N/rH9ws+hkt2nuNQ0QAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAyMi0wMS0yNFQxNjoyNzoxMSsw MDowMBikZFMAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjItMDEtMjRUMTY6Mjc6MTErMDA6MDBp+dzv AAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Michelle Shocked's _The Texas Campfire Tapes_: "Necktie" Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 17:35:19 +0100 In-Reply-To: ("Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd=22's?= message of "Mon, 24 Jan 2022 17:06:54 +0100") Message-ID: <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Mattias EngdegÃ¥rd writes: > Attached is a draft patch. It does not change the output of > `describe-char`, which is invoked from `C-u C-x =`. The `traditional` > format is unchanged; the new format is designed to be informativ [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: Ulrich Windl , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd writes: > Attached is a draft patch. It does not change the output of > `describe-char`, which is invoked from `C-u C-x =3D`. The `traditional` > format is unchanged; the new format is designed to be informative and > reasonably free from clutter. I think using `format-spec' would allow users to tweak this more extensively, which they probably want to, if they care enough to change it at all. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 24 12:29:35 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jan 2022 17:29:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45636 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nC39r-0006He-Ll for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 12:29:35 -0500 Received: from mail1453c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.14.53]:44136 helo=mail266c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nC39o-0006HK-MW for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 12:29:35 -0500 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1643045365; bh=fWmK4pgYaGgZpZTtjbqJxoAg/ksf5z0KJRG89hZ4VJg=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=E+rUXGeVbH/yw1SIQi0DJUi24VMsG/uY0FVZ8J9WR6VFeWKBzCFZpDcFMeuoqayOh YQvyXmKGtr/cjTX6fWPUBlGx6WQnsmUkbQ9K5+oR1iysE/2TgYDG9GNlQukhJvmGYi vswwidNRUMTya4T7Wiv/b5TURm9EzzDtEhZTwDs4= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from smtpclient.apple (c-b952e353.032-75-73746f71.bbcust.telenor.se [83.227.82.185]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail266c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 20OHTMR4007618; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 17:29:24 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 18:29:22 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A742F18.61EEE1F5.0048, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-Origin-Country: SE X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: 24 jan. 2022 kl. 17.35 skrev Lars Ingebrigtsen : > I think using `format-spec' would allow users to tweak this more > extensively, which they probably want to, if they care enough to change > it at all. Content analysis details: (1.4 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2) [91.136.14.53 listed in wl.mailspike.net] 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.4 KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS Relay HELO differs from its IP's reverse DNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: Ulrich Windl , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) 24 jan. 2022 kl. 17.35 skrev Lars Ingebrigtsen : > I think using `format-spec' would allow users to tweak this more > extensively, which they probably want to, if they care enough to = change > it at all. Thanks for taking a look! I had a go at format-spec, and don't think = it's appropriate. Let me explain: 1. It doesn't fit the problem very well: neither the traditional nor the = new format are easily expressed with format-spec since they are = conditional in several ways (fields or strings that appear depending on = the circumstances). In contrast, conditions are easily expressible in = Lisp. 2. Even if we went through the contortions to make formats expressible = in format-spec, it still wouldn't be very easy to do so, especially = compared to choosing a ready-made format. For more advanced = customisation, Lisp is probably preferable. 3. As any designer knows, customisability is a cop-out: it's an = abdication of responsibility. The user can now conveniently be blamed = for any perceived shortcoming. Conversely, being forced to think and = make hard choices is much of what design is about, and users like when = it's done for them in a competent way. Customisability is a minefield: it is often motivated by vague = hypotheticals like "what if someone wants to..." when the right question = to ask is instead what a good design would be and what preferences, if = any, could reasonably differ. Let's look at it this way: what would you personally want the format to = be, if you did not need to think about anyone else's wishes? Then see if = our ideas might converge. Chances are that we could find something that = most users think is pretty good, and many of the rest could very well = live with. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 24 12:39:58 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jan 2022 17:39:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45650 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nC3Ju-0000MA-6G for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 12:39:58 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:53716) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nC3Jo-0000Ls-Ka for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 12:39:56 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=inCAYNdkgmhPk3RLOJ9qru2ntrlu3AyfSCBXjDtVCZU=; b=mt5oqoMPBd4R1Lsq9ZQuCRkSce Aw4eOhcLTI1NMtrz9Q3f9/hlhYsn7xLlhTovCWhdcFAM/pVrN+fJJWisjK/ePWHeOgA1bLHRtjBjA 01tMZnnPAeBO+/FUwflCCbnpxR+lvKzI4mk7cNg1ZFtIf2Fr1BFPqqhnE855NMKx7Oz8=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=giant) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nC3Jf-0001m3-9r; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 18:39:45 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Subject: Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAElBMVEUIBgNGSVskIy5n epy/0+D///8bBB/0AAAAAWJLR0QF+G/pxwAAAAd0SU1FB+YBGBEbKsttz/QAAAGlSURBVDjLlZPr laMwDIWFMwVgmwKMSQERUgM5Vv817ZUddsiEPWdH+QP6oteVIPq1TXHYB1hrt/UDbP+MiDGtL1DL dapJ235KJcPwuJjZd8zGkvEDmOC3+aLdG/ytg1rf+xNWB8FrnkGO8zIXCuWdhOS1EzI2tH8CG2ev Uby3+gKrMHrdATjPJGb72kFVswfd96zWphLQ3bO6BqEiBdPt6SCicrQ2AgagmAVly9KQwKQcAG2K GNfJOtDHAM9QqOaM+b46aAtACZ6p0ubpS1hEh2aBoRGvMwbpymoHMmNQD9UnpPK5aXP/vs10Fx9Y raApX+OqPqciQ3OQ7fFKhQiJiuDNS4ns5bXyjNbvJgDsBMsOUG93lSnoAC43zyOUjmx4V5jJTvkA ExpGPeBWYwc6ABTwK7o5oJqCFDQzdt+vC8D6w0J5gCmN80EE+6OyaKPvgzvArXftS/57HioR/7sP fz7fdXTgc7SY5Ay6FpP7Y2b6adChSVx2+iT4Fvjt0zn8TSXFcpVKYuVPQGsqIV8BV6XxlRubugZL X+SFbf1SrwAn+g/7A3/eY6An34HAAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIyLTAxLTI0VDE3OjI3 OjQyKzAwOjAwvDqpLwAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMi0wMS0yNFQxNzoyNzo0MiswMDow MM1nEZMAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Kraftwerk's _Electric Cafe_: "The Telephone Call" Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 18:39:41 +0100 In-Reply-To: ("Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd=22's?= message of "Mon, 24 Jan 2022 18:29:22 +0100") Message-ID: <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Mattias EngdegÃ¥rd writes: > 1. It doesn't fit the problem very well: neither the traditional nor > the new format are easily expressed with format-spec since they are > conditional in several ways (fields or strings that appea [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: Ulrich Windl , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd writes: > 1. It doesn't fit the problem very well: neither the traditional nor > the new format are easily expressed with format-spec since they are > conditional in several ways (fields or strings that appear depending > on the circumstances). In contrast, conditions are easily expressible > in Lisp. The format we're settling on doesn't have to be identical to the one we have today. Defaulting to, say, the Char: e (101, #o145, #x65) point=3D818 of 2005 (41%) column=3D60 might be OK. > 2. Even if we went through the contortions to make formats expressible > in format-spec, it still wouldn't be very easy to do so, especially > compared to choosing a ready-made format. For more advanced > customisation, Lisp is probably preferable. Writing code is always better for programmers, but non-programmers can put together format-spec things easier. > 3. As any designer knows, customisability is a cop-out: it's an > abdication of responsibility. The user can now conveniently be blamed > for any perceived shortcoming. Conversely, being forced to think and > make hard choices is much of what design is about, and users like when > it's done for them in a competent way. I know what you mean, but of course I want to have a good default. I just doubt that there's any point in adding more than one "standard format" -- people that want to tweak stuff like this really wants to tweak stuff like this. Trying to figure out all formats a user might want is futile (and ultimately user-hostile). --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 25 10:38:31 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jan 2022 15:38:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49756 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCNtv-0007Wy-3X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 10:38:31 -0500 Received: from mail235c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.10.245]:35522 helo=mail56c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCNtr-0007Wf-Mw for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 10:38:29 -0500 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1643125105; bh=pbUu4lsX2bE9WG2IRu3wN2v1L/W9xIrofy76OHx+Y6E=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=mQ0d7lTHlzeBy395bXHyZZbx4V6Ffi5G2MRHgyz6F0emLA8vI4wxfDDId0qKKO5iF 7gkbvcNqHJHHOzt2F53J1M7GS+R6n0mFNl7d+RpS+qLAd7bojxqSieWjOdFLSLedp8 ARqDV7u0CXROwzjcjFr+IkX5hD++PGG77b6ThoF0= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from smtpclient.apple (c-b952e353.032-75-73746f71.bbcust.telenor.se [83.227.82.185]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail56c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 20PFcNuU016906; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 15:38:24 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 16:38:22 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A742F16.61F01971.003A, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-Origin-Country: SE X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: 24 jan. 2022 kl. 18.39 skrev Lars Ingebrigtsen : > Writing code is always better for programmers, but non-programmers can > put together format-spec things easier. Maybe, but why don't we first try to make an effort so that they don't have to. There is a tower of convenience for the typical user: Content analysis details: (1.4 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.4 KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS Relay HELO differs from its IP's reverse DNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: Ulrich Windl , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) 24 jan. 2022 kl. 18.39 skrev Lars Ingebrigtsen : > Writing code is always better for programmers, but non-programmers can > put together format-spec things easier. Maybe, but why don't we first try to make an effort so that they don't = have to. There is a tower of convenience for the typical user: 1. accept the default 2. customise-variable, picking another ready-made format 3. download an ELPA package (or copy someone's init.el) 4. write Lisp A format-spec elaboration would fit somewhere between 3 and 4 in that = tower -- easier than Lisp, but less convenient than using something = available. (Maybe you would place it above 3, but then I personally rank = "Lisp" at around 1.001. We aren't typical users.) Thus let's attack 1 and 2 first. If we fail, and it is clear that a = significant number of users would legitimately be dissatisfied by = options 1..4 above, then format-spec may be an option. >> 3. As any designer knows, customisability is a cop-out: it's an >> abdication of responsibility. The user can now conveniently be blamed >> for any perceived shortcoming. Conversely, being forced to think and >> make hard choices is much of what design is about, and users like = when >> it's done for them in a competent way. >=20 > I know what you mean, but of course I want to have a good default. And I know that you do! What about the new format -- is it good enough = for you, or can you help making it better? > I just doubt that there's any point in adding more than one "standard > format" -- people that want to tweak stuff like this really wants to > tweak stuff like this. No they don't, unless we tell them that they may want to. (This is an = often ignored back-side of customisation!) I've only heard rather reasonable comments about specific shortcomings = such as the lack of Unicode names. Let's fix that first. > Trying to figure out all formats a user might > want is futile (and ultimately user-hostile). Correct, but that was never the the idea. We only need to provide the = minimum number of ones to make most users happy. (I should add at this point that users typically don't know exactly what = they want, but they occasionally do know what they don't. This actually = makes the job of the designer easier.) The ideal number of options is always one, but I went with two for a = very specific reason: the 'traditional' option is a time-saver. Not for = users, but for you and me, who can point to it if there is a complaint = about the change. I'd rather not have it. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 25 11:42:07 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jan 2022 16:42:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49896 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCOtT-0000qJ-Iy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 11:42:07 -0500 Received: from mail-wr1-f46.google.com ([209.85.221.46]:45773) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCOtP-0000pk-4c for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 11:42:06 -0500 Received: by mail-wr1-f46.google.com with SMTP id r25so4296152wrc.12 for <24902@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 08:42:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=IIe4YG+J01V1HloA9Hqqa1oOsgtC84lXP+FmyWJa7+s=; b=jijD0e5d1uk/fIvgixEnax8TgvqmBCHX+NJY+oMu7E/G5XPYLEh5loBzG5iasZXbCm tjpvy3h+hd7pNosWDGQbqfLmbnbBGFKiJb78lE7KBlGvVnYCa2wQ+IxwwxeJY02YtwJq 8gGxHnmFTZJAweroEpamipbqXJzpNQrHB3CZh2Lijk7GyFN09Gf5QYSeZrEzo0JVHmta /NN58EnCf1Um9yT5Z1U9/MRSHGgGR6o6v+ii0+Sam0SIilnPVY6J8T1YFihWPUu0Kx51 6hLIdtB9p9COJX3mIAHWgeMLbnMfsHJ758HSR5wxH//Hqg6JVc4jSFSDVcA21+svUhVn P2oA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=IIe4YG+J01V1HloA9Hqqa1oOsgtC84lXP+FmyWJa7+s=; b=EiCf00F5ytAlRB1uA26wcrExEps9mG+RY47z6d4GW7KmsqSUtVFsIFEsMR+cMXWGTx lyo5Cg2AywCtWYaBDaYb0cQth5LkaYQFJBkIpzbc4Jg3YFR/+PkztDn7HRNoCP6pxg/x RbDfsT9PkN9Vi16WRfRxnwWcW8pJO6FIPr+fa4J7zAg/Lahrq4oNlDV7R/enXkKg3E9E 1v/AkVgi64d1+7tLA2yq/SA6liJNR8IVaNmzUK4/+XhPQ6QbF2fAFK6LdYl1ic8CLYEV +xQckBHlPy7OZpmlhQgE0oqRcO3JDJThxQqAUNX8kJ3tLme65KqGXSR3hFoNYAU1i5n8 sUdQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532pB0jMHgPMu5q04Pv/P1XelC/Dd/4JjWvZg2hrSBfS3Fc1S1j+ JnUP+lgDN+Rdt6e1NIWWr2YlgrB2IqI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyfmOIgiZlppqvmRj5bJACVozqZ+pe3PfzuVuZ2szbQG7WM7ysLDNufBggllOLruYguzarzHA== X-Received: by 2002:adf:e444:: with SMTP id t4mr18988575wrm.325.1643128916939; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 08:41:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from rltb ([2a01:e0a:3f3:fb50:33bb:d674:b1c5:bf7c]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q3sm16885425wrs.56.2022.01.25.08.41.55 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 25 Jan 2022 08:41:56 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Pluim To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Subject: Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 17:41:55 +0100 In-Reply-To: <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> ("Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd=22's?= message of "Tue, 25 Jan 2022 16:38:22 +0100") Message-ID: <87zgnjhing.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Ulrich Windl , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 16:38:22 +0100, Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd said: Mattias> The ideal number of options is always one, but I went with two= for a Mattias> very specific reason: the 'traditional' option is a time-saver= . Not Mattias> for users, but for you and me, who can point to it if there is= a Mattias> complaint about the change. I'd rather not have it. I remember there was a very large amount of back-and-forth about the exact output that would be enabled by `what-cursor-show-names', as people were very sensitive to the exact information presented. Yet here you've essentially flipped it to t for everybody, which will inevitably result in complaints. I think the new format can be improved, as to my eyes it=CA=BCs lacking in visual separators between the fields, but in any case I don=CA=BCt think it should be the default. "Let the Good Old Times roll" Robert --=20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 25 12:16:15 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jan 2022 17:16:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49950 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCPQU-0001m0-Ox for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 12:16:14 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37590) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCPQR-0001li-1Z for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 12:16:13 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=40454 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nCPQH-0005cY-7Y; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 12:16:04 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=Sn38eLDTmy5YZ7se7drEMLy/92RYv6QcUUE5NbcNc/o=; b=aXyXGLEVtIwrSJU1/RxM tvQrRAxfJ8RC1OLeE6pL1H4rjbdsF3nHeSovGsukbg9euBmhV/L0V7CPWj6V1E2aSx95qmxHHdBZv h61RUhh73V7K2Um0YLYH3HUqpEYPxtKW6L0fpxzRE/uAKSM2ohkYoHneCLiguCO6ZAHkyU+Zt1fcN CHEi1cSH45pfRxl0XpETnH4eM0DhbbsruOxe1huEyklkHdpYYyMQPyE+CG70UlnO+9fQgQjGsEWAA f6+iLg6onevfgejseYquZmyBZC//VQ0a/UBkr4WEYFKEL62d/s0/34ezer+Sjr+AG7IgycFca4xsH YAstqistnPdkDA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2885 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nCPQ6-0008Jt-Dh; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 12:16:01 -0500 Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 19:15:39 +0200 Message-Id: <83a6fjivno.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Robert Pluim In-Reply-To: <87zgnjhing.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Robert Pluim on Tue, 25 Jan 2022 17:41:55 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87zgnjhing.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: mattiase@acm.org, larsi@gnus.org, Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de, 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Robert Pluim > Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 17:41:55 +0100 > Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , > Ulrich Windl , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org > > I remember there was a very large amount of back-and-forth about the > exact output that would be enabled by `what-cursor-show-names', as > people were very sensitive to the exact information presented. Yet > here you've essentially flipped it to t for everybody, which will > inevitably result in complaints. > > I think the new format can be improved, as to my eyes itʼs lacking in > visual separators between the fields, but in any case I donʼt think it > should be the default. AFAIU, we didn't yet agree on changing the default. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 25 13:00:35 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jan 2022 18:00:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49993 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCQ7P-0003TP-Bq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 13:00:35 -0500 Received: from mail1448c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.14.48]:52140 helo=mail265c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCQ7M-0003Hy-3g for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 13:00:34 -0500 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1643133624; bh=bwraHzplXj4hdpRCRc4I3YANLwWT1o+aQA0QYPSeCOE=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=U1iaCT+3hVhfL+hZ1tU4PmPqnBXlDH09TbZZWji04Qbl4Hj3SV2uB4CZ6Kmo+6Ebj KtgKaJwoNNAI5wLYLxBuIs885MVBlN59BU/D+ufPJ/APftoNVY8M3nr4IesrMiwKkz vFdmGpVVguVqJFL+PMdH53WSgtyHhuO/Z4XZ6Uuc= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from smtpclient.apple (c-b952e353.032-75-73746f71.bbcust.telenor.se [83.227.82.185]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail265c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 20PI0Lwb029779; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 18:00:23 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <87zgnjhing.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 19:00:21 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5EA6B0F8-93CC-43DD-B4BE-8109FBA68722@acm.org> References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87zgnjhing.fsf@gmail.com> To: Robert Pluim X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A742F22.61F03AB8.0114, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-Origin-Country: SE X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: 25 jan. 2022 kl. 17.41 skrev Robert Pluim : > I remember there was a very large amount of back-and-forth about the > exact output that would be enabled by `what-cursor-show-names', as > people were very sensitive to the exact information presen [...] Content analysis details: (1.4 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.4 KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS Relay HELO differs from its IP's reverse DNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Ulrich Windl , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) 25 jan. 2022 kl. 17.41 skrev Robert Pluim : > I remember there was a very large amount of back-and-forth about the > exact output that would be enabled by `what-cursor-show-names', as > people were very sensitive to the exact information presented. Yet > here you've essentially flipped it to t for everybody, which will > inevitably result in complaints. It's a rather separate discussion. (Those most attached to the old = appearance are long-time users who know very well how to customise it, = and it's good if new users get the better design by default.) Let's = focus on the new design right now. > I think the new format can be improved, as to my eyes it=CA=BCs = lacking in > visual separators between the fields I thought the all-caps Unicode character name did offset it rather well = against what followed, but perhaps adding a comma immediately after the = name, as in U+003B SEMICOLON, pt=3D72/145 col=3D0 would help? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 25 13:11:33 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jan 2022 18:11:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50022 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCQI1-0005T2-6F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 13:11:33 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33688) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCQHy-0005So-Ts for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 13:11:32 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=41512 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nCQHs-00064e-P9; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 13:11:24 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=A7voZypGwJHXsyX12s2zEjsazM5vawEkYBndVsoKC5w=; b=n00DPL1v2d3kbt2v4SH4 tpu5CvA0AC0J0KL0y6dbuq+1TPCyzxT6YnWA/95KTjbaPwdv9bmAPNBCFnZMmtaLoDzD2VMJSy+bi R8JKGoMRJmRXoS1wtBZt6F8/iEjItcRF+fm+I0k+XJn9kZ2o3cNFpKH2pWpMLOnn4Om6fnP5b/31l QfjIHeXqLw0lQZw4HjsvuyyK2u2AgYXjhO6VeOxJG4a/j9IUl6q27d/l1+0LSd7dZSfyvSnkJHU1m LLOT0fCssF2sVz00wYei5LO7uTXbjtJDzXUeWmf1EW/0S2jbLOORZ2Wm5IQC242zs33JT32pBNC7Z ez/RpFj0gdGagg==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2302 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nCQHr-0002PX-Nx; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 13:11:24 -0500 Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 20:11:13 +0200 Message-Id: <837danit32.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <5EA6B0F8-93CC-43DD-B4BE-8109FBA68722@acm.org> (message from Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= on Tue, 25 Jan 2022 19:00:21 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87zgnjhing.fsf@gmail.com> <5EA6B0F8-93CC-43DD-B4BE-8109FBA68722@acm.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: 24902@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com, larsi@gnus.org, Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Mattias EngdegÃ¥rd > Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 19:00:21 +0100 > Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , > Ulrich Windl , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org > > U+003B SEMICOLON, pt=72/145 col=0 This is supposed to be for newcomers? What is "pt"? what is "col"? what does N/M mean? The only thing that doesn't need explanation is the "," part. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 26 02:09:41 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jan 2022 07:09:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50845 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCcR2-0003YB-NN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 02:09:40 -0500 Received: from mx3.uni-regensburg.de ([194.94.157.148]:55038) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCcR1-0003Y1-0c for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 02:09:39 -0500 Received: from mx3.uni-regensburg.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 260BE6000054 for <24902@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 08:09:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de (gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de [132.199.5.51]) by mx3.uni-regensburg.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 199CA6000051 for <24902@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 08:09:34 +0100 (CET) Received: from uni-regensburg-smtp1-MTA by gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 08:09:34 +0100 Message-Id: <61F0F3AD020000A1000472A2@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 18.3.1 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 08:09:33 +0100 From: "Ulrich Windl" To: Subject: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87zgnjhing.fsf@gmail.com> <5EA6B0F8-93CC-43DD-B4BE-8109FBA68722@acm.org> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: 24902@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) >>> Mattias EngdegÃ¥rd schrieb am 25.01.2022 um 19:00 in Nachricht <5EA6B0F8-93CC-43DD-B4BE-8109FBA68722@acm.org>: [...] > U+003B SEMICOLON, pt=72/145 col=0 As Unicode names can have spaces in them (e.g.: "U+A758 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER Q WITH DIAGONAL STROKE"), the comma is important (unless the name is quoted), I think. > > would help? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 26 08:10:53 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jan 2022 13:10:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51183 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCi4b-0000Dd-Jz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 08:10:53 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:47316) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCi4Y-0000DN-Pr for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 08:10:51 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=bv1pYnj0zSuIeVGIQ8QWmThL7BIHfzxFDwkUdnAaQks=; b=k74HsmkQANQ3bO3rjHp4JE29tr qPGbvLJXIcNd6HPK6Crxm5YThJK6dspHBHPJ/CDJfoUgoR8PEwaEPcM3G2QMKOcslZLQzk4GXUfFl deBfYVP0+lW3AjLFnyYa+BBgqDxWzdKVIYmRdli3/HWMOJGWUZto1835VuRcPcvJVPHs=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=giant) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nCi4P-00015L-JB; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 14:10:44 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Subject: Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAD1BMVEVMQk6Zgm/07uPJ uqf///8KMbFVAAAAAWJLR0QEj2jZUQAAAAd0SU1FB+YBGgw6MXNg61MAAAG2SURBVDjLdZQBsuQg CETxewGVC/zABRTuf7eF1mQyW7vWlJXxjdANZIioiEij0shUPotuUAPIN6giGjuR/AWGyEXEeTNi TeJGPzeYRI6QFo99HmCZghaABijrDcqVuURt9e5uCQpyl98A7vHs/gXqpKqpN4ECVIgKGxUyA6jf YL5A/KgzwIAophv0VvoBTmnjgNUatZGA/Rv0WADui9IGDEpI3jWmoh65y/oPqAlh46luVW8H4NCz lJcJsWbuG5hU0TV63GCL8NmDACY+RxuXpyqI2iDCrLJKVEUAZtoAUOmdx85Dbi/gqDCqHDfaNk7F sx/7E+XzfYbN0CI1HVch1xvUbIS5mP6oM0FUVWzquvo1rvR4wKbOkxejMgFSFCcg7dzMMaiXENT2 nolycmAuhcEB1V8oiJ7tG+EEDmhMDLcm4O1kA1xj30tlpXOk5bkB7zrk5AAUKBiYzgfkUdH8OhBo 9ReoLxCD3zFwUPtK3sLUHlEASHtumBwwAOwB/g1wHvp61zuUfwC3GN31gPXJgaH+B1jYjtzyBpBk BoMFzYohsehsvhuWICf6ANMT//yXPMD7C/wBIQFxXoGyh8kAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRlADIw MjItMDEtMjZUMTI6NTg6NDkrMDA6MDD8giWrAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOm1vZGlmeQAyMDIyLTAxLTI2 VDEyOjU4OjQ5KzAwOjAwjd+dFwAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: Dry Cleaning's _New Long Leg_: "New Long Leg" Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 14:10:40 +0100 In-Reply-To: <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> ("Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd=22's?= message of "Tue, 25 Jan 2022 16:38:22 +0100") Message-ID: <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Mattias EngdegÃ¥rd writes: > And I know that you do! What about the new format -- is it good enough > for you, or can you help making it better? U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O pt=2938/2942 col=52 Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: Ulrich Windl , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd writes: > And I know that you do! What about the new format -- is it good enough > for you, or can you help making it better? U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O pt=3D2938/2942 col=3D52 or U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O pt=3D1913/3297 <1402-3298> col=3D42 I think that's more confusing than what we currently have -- pt and col aren't very clear. Compared to: Char: o (111, #o157, #x6f) point=3D1913 of 3222 (59%) <1402-3223> column=3D= 42 And I have absolutely no idea what the stuff in <> is supposed to tell me, but the current format has that in common with the proposed format. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 26 08:35:40 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jan 2022 13:35:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51243 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCiSa-0005Lp-Ds for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 08:35:40 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57664) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCiSY-0005Lc-29 for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 08:35:39 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=59176 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nCiSI-0006qV-Bg; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 08:35:30 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=5K5jFmqDHUU6XizBgY55KKUlJYHyYmEXGh76TmHZOzk=; b=maKpdejqNTu+ ugJif+VFvyhOClXA24b0bGyGq8L5P8IDC8KnWVk9NThOl5Rm89FcJwMZniPyyS8kADwmiZAotcMTi 6+fVwOhlrANnTFdF+Wn8+pY2T6jos8kdEfcXBh88nUHaeuGEgMoxglrceZCs2z7bBRsTtiEghkRcj C0/hzblGTJeZWt8quJo/Jumqcu10B5lIl5g6Z7vGYFygwj7+u0TEvVIwQqqdMQlIkoUJ8a7LsQnsf gKkic6VJAk87uDTLyniO5sGShRBBauHfNPuLwnaDSF66Jg/PocC0Cqx8lK+H6hR0GqsVcGIY3Mrev pUeUmcRXLMOh/oJJmcHXSA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1698 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nCiSF-0001NF-Bc; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 08:35:20 -0500 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 15:35:12 +0200 Message-Id: <837damhb73.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Wed, 26 Jan 2022 14:10:40 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: mattiase@acm.org, Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de, 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 14:10:40 +0100 > Cc: Ulrich Windl , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org > > Char: o (111, #o157, #x6f) point=1913 of 3222 (59%) <1402-3223> column=42 > > And I have absolutely no idea what the stuff in <> is supposed to tell > me It shows the restriction, if any. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 26 08:46:46 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jan 2022 13:46:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51313 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCidJ-0005g5-Qx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 08:46:46 -0500 Received: from mail173c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.10.183]:33806 helo=mail56c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCidH-0005fw-Os for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 08:46:45 -0500 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1643204801; bh=FAiaUJ9PuHH19n0GbKLh7NruJ6Ry/xyV7erlGLiJFLQ=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=nGnwhnNX36xX5qpSjzft7e4n9adAQDAXeUUzi0WPOVW5mFiAwvKSz7KpvnMG2NnVy OLN5fMQRX79bzzbshtGm0odjHFWs4S+D7+M08hos147ZyMcJFzeXvubWaViPqXBszj zYvCA6hXrlOm51//TZAloxRwXZ2OY5CAEGvmhzN4= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from smtpclient.apple (c-b952e353.032-75-73746f71.bbcust.telenor.se [83.227.82.185]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail56c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 20QDkcbT014879; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 13:46:40 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 14:46:37 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <57809622-307B-4AA9-8DA4-7073A9AABC14@acm.org> References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A742F20.61F150C1.0071, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-Origin-Country: SE X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: Ulrich Windl , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) 26 jan. 2022 kl. 08.09 skrev Ulrich Windl = : > As Unicode names can have spaces in them (e.g.: "U+A758 LATIN CAPITAL = LETTER Q > WITH DIAGONAL STROKE"), the comma is important (unless the name is = quoted), I > think. All right, let's add a comma there then. 26 jan. 2022 kl. 14.10 skrev Lars Ingebrigtsen : > I think that's more confusing than what we currently have -- pt and = col > aren't very clear. Maybe we can afford spending a few more characters then, "point" is a = reasonable improvement. I think that "col" as shorthand for "column" is = readily understood because it is so common even outside Emacs, but will = happily change to "column" if required. > And I have absolutely no idea what the stuff in <> is supposed to tell > me, but the current format has that in common with the proposed = format. Yes. The problem is that since we display the point and buffer size, = which is the basic job of the command after all, we pretty much need to = indicate narrowing in some way. Since narrowing is slightly uncommon we = could afford some verbosity; what about changing <1234-5678> into (narrowed to 1234-5678) then? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 26 08:48:43 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jan 2022 13:48:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51317 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCifD-0005kx-8T for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 08:48:43 -0500 Received: from mail-wr1-f46.google.com ([209.85.221.46]:36402) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCifB-0005kj-Kf for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 08:48:42 -0500 Received: by mail-wr1-f46.google.com with SMTP id u15so25918981wrt.3 for <24902@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 05:48:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Hy5yfQv1ETKs98YBa41mT77Ce6QprFZdCu6fSduONZU=; b=Z5xFjtlsljFAf4mhjDc2+tg9EOYTOTkk2vLTRlvS4hjCl8zQAGIpRx3WgKZjZr1gCg NwnC1AC/zlxL/1OjzlUNteHAZOANTYXC9RhN7HmhkijlOlssuECP2gmlI/qPaobFtMAm haxn+YQvpQcY01I/Sa1v3iz3rxxQ3mveVH/1LSGaqivZyTRjXUkpTBZqlXvD5iCDFb0G ZBFwV2g9kuUoK/WfOrVVZhmuMnAGi5FaasGIniZzHI5hG0TuH0YIRKwWJZ5r+txMZLje avnXugl0Q+3RguTkHnZmw+xmzfwijL5U8Fo5pZL/2a1LOQmmOVm2nkpqeTe+/+ilGiut odbA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Hy5yfQv1ETKs98YBa41mT77Ce6QprFZdCu6fSduONZU=; b=6Dg0RLzeWpccyscyQcVeiJcNzQVjSqGpnrHIbGYoJO6t+pSepIAtyFSLMnVJL0WxZH vml7sYD1Y9/7Uu3BJ8YjzbTQmPHL6H1klAqubsJ7rJx0C6Zqmy8KWzc59PCUyd/6DQgH fWvtyTgyTcfUFt93J3vYZJ7IOZhkarepeCOvy5VUCcCtHk69IbcIBu0L0KVLCENz4OmA j8c3CnPHsH4Wpvakg2gQoATC3g0//+H9EdxCxi5jxtB97LRM9yhB1nP88QDt4glM5rX2 nNl13JZ0cK+h2wkiGEpLL1vb5NM7+qwU+4+Chov6snYScCJKLanE6DoBrAPQKF6KECAJ atkg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533rrCpdXzAyznQ6GiE2WOuO/PfxdECbqiTsd/RfCtYWJxm6zoDf HZm4CghMmsCoRNJsTFcEpi4nfNvym04= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyd9AuEiuYd5SKwuKcMPeYJH5awoYVxvbOgErWVfr8doAiKXreugK81zZdHyK7VgcaehXgJ0g== X-Received: by 2002:adf:edc4:: with SMTP id v4mr11912232wro.12.1643204915333; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 05:48:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from rltb ([2a01:e0a:3f3:fb50:b96b:9e5:e272:2b49]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t4sm19707925wro.71.2022.01.26.05.48.34 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 26 Jan 2022 05:48:34 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Pluim To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 14:48:33 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Wed, 26 Jan 2022 14:10:40 +0100") Message-ID: <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= , Ulrich Windl , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 14:10:40 +0100, Lars Ingebrigtsen said: Lars> Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd writes: >> And I know that you do! What about the new format -- is it good enou= gh >> for you, or can you help making it better? Lars> U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O pt=3D2938/2942 col=3D52 Lars> or Lars> U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O pt=3D1913/3297 <1402-3298> col=3D42 Lars> I think that's more confusing than what we currently have -- pt a= nd col Lars> aren't very clear. Compared to: Lars> Char: o (111, #o157, #x6f) point=3D1913 of 3222 (59%) <1402-3223>= column=3D42 Lars> And I have absolutely no idea what the stuff in <> is supposed to= tell Lars> me, but the current format has that in common with the proposed f= ormat. You only see that when the buffer is narrowed, it=CA=BCs <(point-min)-(point-max)>. I=CA=BCm not sure how useful it is. Since we=CA=BCre now painting this bike-shed, here=CA=BCs my preferred colo= ur: U+006F 'LATIN SMALL LETTER O' point=3D2938 of 2942 col=3D52 I think I could be persuaded that the (59%) stuff should be in there as well, but that=CA=BCs not a strongly held opinion. Robert --=20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 26 09:07:46 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jan 2022 14:07:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51340 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCixP-0006DE-GY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 09:07:46 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:48056) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCixI-0006Cu-1s for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 09:07:30 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=0NhFPpYZaizqAFf2oqdlA6iWk0+9OB6fH/ahyntiZ5c=; b=YIdu/ICvQkKVh9W2JOhEW6D3ZI j8VCvZzPfBMFJ4VZJbFgQbzHTGeQ9nOr2S1YTXlm93kVO9PM9xjbOvHdZR8Yrl/X7YZYqeG0EM/d1 WvOYIih/fU3b0l0FOaRtCAPM6gnKGx6mDUUyKdqUBwvIXifGrCESeVebVvkrQIWKsQ4I=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=giant) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nCix9-0002S6-LR; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 15:07:18 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Subject: Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <57809622-307B-4AA9-8DA4-7073A9AABC14@acm.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAADFBMVEWBc2vs7Ouno6H/ //9PYfMyAAAAAWJLR0QDEQxM8gAAAAd0SU1FB+YBGg0oBFzlNZQAAAGiSURBVCjPXZHBjtowEIZn I6WSuVPR27aKV4SnYDkgeqNVfivJKVo1iOQpAioI57YVjkhOCNVIyVPWTrd0d32w/Nvj+Wb+oeEM t0VqI+om08iuNQh3wa/RgiPOPguCK7b3kmP+o05IcFGnuoX8Xc8oULf/jGIg4C6QIlFkbgRzETPM QP8QXDArxAlXKREOrQjaD+UnYKr6F39wroHCUX1YIyQwKIhuFBdnwhJmZxDcpEQyDGlyZ8jA/zAL W3UPTZzlolIRaCFHl/11P35uOyP0Kdl718OzHJmw9qgveZmfTvmbBKaCkCdKcI41OQbKQy64BuKi b+7GiTIdrYQ1ogV9u2j9s9PWgQElG+0OmF5TNSlopVLZLI7ETaUvnKUPQcq2gGTAzEXIyBohnN7W 4nU5MZnBmH6qFJW16uBd5uX9fLw+GndK78t8uy0PYWBEOsmeVl2Tj9U7QwKL+PoiQveVWDpmaI/9 OaSEDF1qUUVZQlMafvd33mwyZo9U0MdY7ryF7+wyIjo22e7BP2s5JccRWmz6BB2ZzPrMEP0dOcAh 8WTFHzAKx7T/WKFgAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIyLTAxLTI2VDEzOjQwOjA0KzAwOjAw FtAMIAAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMi0wMS0yNlQxMzo0MDowNCswMDowMGeNtJwAAAAA SUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: =?utf-8?Q?Zo=C3=A9?= Mc Pherson's _SHAPE 2021_: "Exile" Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 15:07:14 +0100 In-Reply-To: <57809622-307B-4AA9-8DA4-7073A9AABC14@acm.org> ("Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd=22's?= message of "Wed, 26 Jan 2022 14:46:37 +0100") Message-ID: <87a6fisi99.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Mattias EngdegÃ¥rd writes: > Since narrowing is slightly > uncommon we could afford some verbosity; what about changing > > <1234-5678> > > into > > (narrowed to 1234-5678) > > then? Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: Ulrich Windl , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd writes: > Since narrowing is slightly > uncommon we could afford some verbosity; what about changing > > <1234-5678> > > into > > (narrowed to 1234-5678) > > then? Yes, that'd be an improvement. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 26 09:09:39 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jan 2022 14:09:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51350 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCizT-0006GX-H2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 09:09:39 -0500 Received: from mx4.uni-regensburg.de ([194.94.157.149]:45394) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCizR-0006GP-Ry for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 09:09:38 -0500 Received: from mx4.uni-regensburg.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id D5E386000057 for <24902@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 15:09:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de (gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de [132.199.5.51]) by mx4.uni-regensburg.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8326600004F for <24902@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 15:09:32 +0100 (CET) Received: from uni-regensburg-smtp1-MTA by gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 15:09:33 +0100 Message-Id: <61F1561A020000A1000472CB@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 18.3.1 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 15:09:30 +0100 From: "Ulrich Windl" To: "Robert Pluim" , Subject: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org><87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Wed, 26 Jan 2022 14:10:40 +0100") <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> In-Reply-To: <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: mattiase@acm.org, 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) >>> Robert Pluim schrieb am 26.01.2022 um 14:48 in = Nachricht <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com>: [...] > U+006F 'LATIN SMALL LETTER O' point=3D2938 of 2942 col=3D52 I was wondering about three things: 1) When you display the column, shouldn't you display the line, too? 2) Should the percentage be included when point position is included? 3) As the output may become lengthy, will the minibuffer extend to = multiple lines, or should we be smart detecting when line-number minor = mode is active and omit line, column and percentage then? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 26 11:53:19 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jan 2022 16:53:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53291 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nClXn-00038J-Hz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 11:53:18 -0500 Received: from mail1436c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.14.36]:39582 helo=mail263c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nClXj-00037w-Lm for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 11:53:14 -0500 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1643215984; bh=JiNHT3rEC3KB5I3wva5OYnzOLS49oWYjHb1aoB6hD+Q=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=OaHRlYY2tpRy3i+C4Q3xlD5iIT+hsFwh03yhLXsEaK3O3ygFhj5V9O5uam6iVURrg baGz6vf25SgmwSeFqieUAv4RyzdjD179dY/KlaxHQ0kEwcG7UmQ8R8WkJGKoPEqVid ZOq96/zNvjquMCn08XCpNk49mj8hCQyIAVtMKs2I= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from smtpclient.apple (c-b952e353.032-75-73746f71.bbcust.telenor.se [83.227.82.185]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail263c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 20QGr1LW009925; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 16:53:03 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <61F1561A020000A1000472CB@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 17:53:00 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <61F1561A020000A1000472CB@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> To: Ulrich Windl X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A742F23.61F17C70.0035, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-Origin-Country: SE X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: 26 jan. 2022 kl. 15.09 skrev Ulrich Windl : > 1) When you display the column, shouldn't you display the line, too? It's probably because Emacs traditionally displays the line but not the column number in the mode line. The reason for that, in turn, is that updating the column number for each typed character makes [...] Content analysis details: (1.4 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2) [91.136.14.36 listed in wl.mailspike.net] 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.4 KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS Relay HELO differs from its IP's reverse DNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: Robert Pluim , larsi@gnus.org, 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) 26 jan. 2022 kl. 15.09 skrev Ulrich Windl = : > 1) When you display the column, shouldn't you display the line, too? It's probably because Emacs traditionally displays the line but not the = column number in the mode line. The reason for that, in turn, is that = updating the column number for each typed character makes Emacs less = usable over a slow serial line (like 1200 bit/s). These outdated assumptions should be clearly be reconsidered but = meanwhile perhaps we'd better keep the column number in C-x =3D. What do = you think? > 2) Should the percentage be included when point position is included? That percentage smelled "included because we could" from afar. It's not = very useful; the current/maximum point positions give the user a good = idea how far in the buffer he is. > 3) As the output may become lengthy, will the minibuffer extend to = multiple lines Yes. The aim is to make this fairly rare with an 80-column frame width, = not to prevent it outright. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 26 12:02:55 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jan 2022 17:02:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53321 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nClh9-0005f0-51 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 12:02:55 -0500 Received: from mail73c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.10.83]:50342 helo=mail92c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nClh6-0005eq-TX for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 12:02:54 -0500 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1643216570; bh=eoPycC1hOKA/BpBf26kFngRt0isVIJFG8hv/9nxIOg8=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:From; b=qbUEmFYg//CBun17sl9vbmksl/0wg7yg6RAobuwCE24e8bbYbVKp00icSqNhjCd0G pA+wJYiDm9C2NFG/PLu59pLv0O1w+zSLSHul3vCbj5k59YwzVBXNotQjK4Qc2p3+UB dEEXfB2HOSfiCUeephp5HX5Mh3RIJ1h/vSFgL2fY= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from smtpclient.apple (c-b952e353.032-75-73746f71.bbcust.telenor.se [83.227.82.185]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail92c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 20QH2l99022850; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 17:02:48 +0000 From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Message-Id: <537072BC-F9DF-4B7B-BA88-02320A731013@acm.org> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_86DE42E5-38C5-48DE-800A-9972452272EF" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 18:02:46 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> To: Robert Pluim References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A742F2A.61F17EBA.0001, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-Origin-Country: SE X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: 26 jan. 2022 kl. 14.48 skrev Robert Pluim : > U+006F 'LATIN SMALL LETTER O' point=2938 of 2942 col=52 The single quotes are mostly noise; a comma after the name seems to work just as well and is less intrusive (and shorter). The syntax "U+1234 NAME IN CAPS" is Unicode standard and the user is likely t [...] Content analysis details: (1.4 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.4 KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS Relay HELO differs from its IP's reverse DNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Ulrich Windl , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) --Apple-Mail=_86DE42E5-38C5-48DE-800A-9972452272EF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 26 jan. 2022 kl. 14.48 skrev Robert Pluim : > U+006F 'LATIN SMALL LETTER O' point=3D2938 of 2942 col=3D52 The single quotes are mostly noise; a comma after the name seems to work = just as well and is less intrusive (and shorter). The syntax "U+1234 = NAME IN CAPS" is Unicode standard and the user is likely to have = encountered it before. Here is an updated patch. --Apple-Mail=_86DE42E5-38C5-48DE-800A-9972452272EF Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0001-Cleaner-what-cursor-position-format.patch Content-Type: application/octet-stream; x-unix-mode=0644; name="0001-Cleaner-what-cursor-position-format.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =46rom=20a4d4eaf9fcb83b98277959083028aa2a20489a1c=20Mon=20Sep=2017=20= 00:00:00=202001=0AFrom:=20=3D?UTF-8?q?Mattias=3D20Engdeg=3DC3=3DA5rd?=3D=20= =0ADate:=20Mon,=2024=20Jan=202022=2016:49:08=20+0100=0A= Subject:=20[PATCH]=20Cleaner=20`what-cursor-position`=20format=0A=0AAdd=20= a=20new=20`C-x=20=3D`=20output=20format,=20under=20the=20control=20of=20= the=20new=0A`what-cursor-format`=20user=20option,=20that=20uses=20more=20= modern=20formatting=0Aand=20omits=20noise=20syntax=20and=20rarely=20used=20= information.=20=20It=20always=0Aincludes=20the=20character=20name.=0A=0A= *=20lisp/simple.el=20(what-cursor-format):=20New.=0A= (what-cursor-show-names):=20Explain=20relation=20to=20= `what-cursor-format`.=0A(what-cursor-position--default,=0A= what-cursor-position--traditional):=20New=20functions.=0A= (what-cursor-position):=20Reduce=20to=20calling=20the=20right=20back-end=20= function.=0A*=20etc/NEWS:=20Announce.=0A---=0A=20etc/NEWS=20=20=20=20=20=20= =20|=20=206=20++++=0A=20lisp/simple.el=20|=2078=20= ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++------------=0A=202=20files=20= changed,=2065=20insertions(+),=2019=20deletions(-)=0A=0Adiff=20--git=20= a/etc/NEWS=20b/etc/NEWS=0Aindex=20abef1019ac..68fb9110f1=20100644=0A---=20= a/etc/NEWS=0A+++=20b/etc/NEWS=0A@@=20-183,6=20+183,12=20@@=20wheel=20= reports.=20=20Unlike=20'pixel-scroll-mode',=20this=20mode=20scrolls=20= the=0A=20display=20pixel-by-pixel,=20as=20opposed=20to=20only=20= animating=20line-by-line=0A=20scrolls.=0A=20=0A+**=20New=20user=20option=20= 'what-cursor-format'=0A+It=20governs=20the=20output=20format=20of=20= 'what-cursor-position',=20normally=0A+bound=20to=20'C-x=20=3D'.=20=20= When=20'traditional',=20the=20output=20is=20identical=0A+to=20that=20of=20= Emacs=2028;=20when=20'default',=20a=20simpler,=20briefer=20format=0A= +that=20always=20includes=20the=20character=20name=20is=20used.=0A+=0A=20= **=20Terminal=20Emacs=0A=20=0A=20---=0Adiff=20--git=20a/lisp/simple.el=20= b/lisp/simple.el=0Aindex=20801a3c992c..2cc90426e2=20100644=0A---=20= a/lisp/simple.el=0A+++=20b/lisp/simple.el=0A@@=20-1564,27=20+1564,57=20= @@=20count-lines=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= (1-=20(line-number-at-pos))=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= =20(line-number-at-pos)))))))=0A=20=0A+(defcustom=20what-cursor-format=20= 'default=0A+=20=20"What=20to=20show=20in=20the=20echo=20area=20in=20= `what-cursor-position'.=0A+The=20`default'=20format=20gives=20the=20hex=20= code=20and=20name=20of=20the=20character=0A+after=20point,=20the=20= 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See=20also=20the=20command=20`describe-char'."=0A+=20=20(interactive=20= "P")=0A+=20=20(when=20detail=0A+=20=20=20=20(describe-char=20(point)))=0A= +=20=20(cond=0A+=20=20=20((eq=20what-cursor-format=20'default)=20=20=20=20= =20(what-cursor-position--default))=0A+=20=20=20((eq=20= what-cursor-format=20'traditional)=20= (what-cursor-position--traditional))))=0A=20=0C=0A=20;;=20Initialize=20= read-expression-map.=20=20It=20is=20defined=20at=20C=20level.=0A=20= (defvar=20read-expression-map=0A--=20=0A2.32.0=20(Apple=20Git-132)=0A=0A= --Apple-Mail=_86DE42E5-38C5-48DE-800A-9972452272EF-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 26 12:26:12 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jan 2022 17:26:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53381 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCm3g-0006I2-1x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 12:26:12 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:43156) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCm3a-0006H3-Pi for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 12:26:10 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=37626 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nCm3U-0003jd-HO; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 12:26:00 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=mqPTb7fRJ5ABo1cb/GGItnhimydlK2cNA4cdipDrUx8=; b=Vj6A9gGotUyp5gjfaoV2 DasalzFHpx3qNh3UV+2pZBoQsNUsBMGtvg/WtlqxeSmPbwDXRCao3a2URpmh2++2vtw3p9H2urNaH k8bn7PlDZv76yMX+bQJxwuv5xBzL7CfyY33O8fiQuPMbkHGvvUT/FFFEWBsNUPAJJCZ+27wFv5ItJ eSycCr25b5v1RCDkeCt2WaEQhfqV2LqJIMHBmiKZGc9SuD//74j30sWyBfKCFM9z8pF2572b8o6No ECWk23816kRAa0KPt5OEsMvHeRebzI0d/+OYW0cGF9Wpb6W7Bs0sTpN/5LGl//Z2R6Rbo4cWq6ltb tuoOCEqBmE7sCw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4075 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nCm3R-0003vY-4f; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 12:26:00 -0500 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 19:25:41 +0200 Message-Id: <83tudqflyi.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: (message from Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= on Wed, 26 Jan 2022 17:53:00 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#24902: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <61F1561A020000A1000472CB@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de, rpluim@gmail.com, 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Mattias EngdegÃ¥rd > Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 17:53:00 +0100 > Cc: Robert Pluim , larsi@gnus.org, 24902@debbugs.gnu.org > > 26 jan. 2022 kl. 15.09 skrev Ulrich Windl : > > > 1) When you display the column, shouldn't you display the line, too? > > It's probably because Emacs traditionally displays the line but not the column number in the mode line. The reason for that, in turn, is that updating the column number for each typed character makes Emacs less usable over a slow serial line (like 1200 bit/s). It is also because displaying the column requires to redraw the mode line on every move of the point, which is expensive and slows down redisplay. > These outdated assumptions should be clearly be reconsidered They are not necessarily outdated. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 27 04:12:29 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jan 2022 09:12:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54328 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nD0pQ-0008Mn-Vv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 04:12:29 -0500 Received: from mx3.uni-regensburg.de ([194.94.157.148]:36396) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nD0pP-0008Mf-Mx for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 04:12:28 -0500 Received: from mx3.uni-regensburg.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 80149600004F for <24902@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 10:12:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de (gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de [132.199.5.51]) by mx3.uni-regensburg.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 679ED600004D for <24902@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 10:12:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from uni-regensburg-smtp1-MTA by gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 10:12:24 +0100 Message-Id: <61F261F5020000A10004730B@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 18.3.1 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 10:12:21 +0100 From: "Ulrich Windl" To: ,"Robert Pluim" Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Antw:=20[EXT]=20Re:=20bug#24902:=2025.1;=20C=E2=80=91x?= =?UTF-8?Q?=20=3D=20for=20Unicode?= References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <537072BC-F9DF-4B7B-BA88-02320A731013@acm.org> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <13FDBD490200009C5C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> In-Reply-To: <13FDBD490200009C5C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: 24902@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) >>> Mattias EngdegÃ¥rd schrieb am 26.01.2022 um 18:02 in Nachricht <537072BC-F9DF-4B7B-BA88-02320A731013@acm.org>: > 26 jan. 2022 kl. 14.48 skrev Robert Pluim : > >> U+006F 'LATIN SMALL LETTER O' point=2938 of 2942 col=52 > > The single quotes are mostly noise; a comma after the name seems to work > just as well and is less intrusive (and shorter). The syntax "U+1234 NAME IN > CAPS" is Unicode standard and the user is likely to have encountered it > before. I don't know much about the Unicode standard, but in BabelPad (Windows application) some character descriptions have an extra part separated with a colon, like this: "U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN : paragraph sign" So maybe the quotes may be justified. > > Here is an updated patch. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 27 04:43:30 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jan 2022 09:43:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54369 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nD1JR-0000ei-TD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 04:43:30 -0500 Received: from mail-wr1-f46.google.com ([209.85.221.46]:44608) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nD1JN-0000eS-T3 for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 04:43:28 -0500 Received: by mail-wr1-f46.google.com with SMTP id k18so3567458wrg.11 for <24902@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 01:43:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=+dmIoYYOzE9A3l1ZvKp43BsBnI/kWAJPuMoQLZaOfL4=; b=OPUnYr1J64p8RCZhD4bDben1UFISW/PfivLaSCXxoCMSsSx3nNaWnoIyDXW8yX+vPo Yt16kQ0ckQLk7Qk7gNTDm6RvluUZUC6RoQR3X3n8kWSExgwbTRKRo8LeKpI+WqKA1LQi z0FMJUFLaMt0YEWag9+S2Li5Au4i9nm5KgYnm1W10vVBr1nF5YUErwgLH/7ULOkneCkX kpcuremWkLrdmzAkl43hVhnRJ0DkqGqor5jCASo+tRwfxIi+wlD2qSXI33p5Ci5AlgND Qlr9SXcgksj7kJmKM3ckOjFnXh3hQBn42q2hu7D4aZtLpiUL6M3q76fyrC7ddoV8oeF5 e3vQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=+dmIoYYOzE9A3l1ZvKp43BsBnI/kWAJPuMoQLZaOfL4=; b=3dwdyDQ5yp5f6fd3sWrE9O/VALyX4KARXoMp4GNkrBueLcLY9R76NwTmlrkfuO82GT hlVcwSbKIGtG0VvQCRFBoFFDwY6PB47wek1GaJeBAy2pExCL22whFsywJZJ3p0XHouAd NL3fGqZKZ/KaoYj0JuL1/Or/Q68xRMUSdgzlhtz7KB4U3BahAKP+pOVuPxVKDq/kY6HK 5cxNGAWsNfQ3oPlnGCmZaOkSRWbq1QrIDcJO1sSfd4mCPfxGQpSnXHzhswisuZRReUlI Qslp6qCr8y1Fb4dCuIRUhSuYPSZPz74f2NWZo18SAQahjsLQxTUnRT2m8OVIzekedmnJ 0apg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530J3S1dSYUBfl5Xtp5NTN0TVzBjgnwWyiuEbyYL//CHzjI875t7 uoEZ06ZixazhI3K1S1nHY9c= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyVOqlMzWHMcIud+HUfMp3ZbwyAlUdPGkMPkMqPfQF+6eNZ94+lfyJ66FJRhEBNqjxDKJzejA== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:5708:: with SMTP id a8mr2224327wrv.397.1643276599815; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 01:43:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from rltb ([2a01:e0a:3f3:fb50:b96b:9e5:e272:2b49]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i17sm1620190wru.107.2022.01.27.01.43.18 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 27 Jan 2022 01:43:19 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Pluim To: "Ulrich Windl" Subject: Re: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; =?utf-8?Q?C=E2=80=91x?= = for Unicode References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <537072BC-F9DF-4B7B-BA88-02320A731013@acm.org> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <13FDBD490200009C5C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <61F261F5020000A10004730B@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 10:43:18 +0100 In-Reply-To: <61F261F5020000A10004730B@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> (Ulrich Windl's message of "Thu, 27 Jan 2022 10:12:21 +0100") Message-ID: <87y231fr9l.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: mattiase@acm.org, 24902@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 10:12:21 +0100, "Ulrich Windl" said: >>>> Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd schrieb am 26.01.2022 um= 18:02 in Ulrich> Nachricht <537072BC-F9DF-4B7B-BA88-02320A731013@acm.org>: >> 26 jan. 2022 kl. 14.48 skrev Robert Pluim : >>=20 >>> U+006F 'LATIN SMALL LETTER O' point=3D2938 of 2942 col=3D52 >>=20 >> The single quotes are mostly noise; a comma after the name seems to = work=20 >> just as well and is less intrusive (and shorter). The syntax "U+1234= NAME IN >> CAPS" is Unicode standard and the user is likely to have encountered= it=20 >> before. Ulrich> I don't know much about the Unicode standard, but in BabelPad (= Windows Ulrich> application) some character descriptions have an extra part sep= arated with a Ulrich> colon, like this: Ulrich> "U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN : paragraph sign" Ulrich> So maybe the quotes may be justified. Those are codepoints which have both a 'name' and an 'old-name'. 'C-u C-x =3D' will show both by default, I don=CA=BCt think it=CA=BCs neces= sary for 'C-x =3D', which will show 'name' if it exists, else 'old-name'. I=CA=BCm more interested in the visual separation between the U+ABCD and the name. Robert --=20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 27 04:59:29 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jan 2022 09:59:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54395 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nD1Yv-00014g-0f for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 04:59:29 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49828) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nD1Yq-00014I-E6 for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 04:59:27 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=52690 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nD1Yh-0003Xc-BI; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 04:59:18 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=kJPr+zdMZp8A7C3/xf6fh6tXUbgY0g/XawHnUXZxPS8=; b=ewGtHbY0hUEH0uYluRGW FU+QxyurGH2S37mBWzID5z0THAEbgJk3knQPK0lkvUGNqy7zusAg+aM6sZ3agyLoQb8hkvEiUrbzA P+d3h7Kwg3d0jGe19lN05KzezKceZzpr+S476C0+/jNVa5nD8ZfcJx0KfmHuXHQi0hsrUnYQKO+Md /jLiG4UOmltBiV7GK4+wCP5Pxc4aM2yA7nI5CT0aU/QU1PXk6ExPNLEdATdoQh6SGMtx9pNRomHvi uvnkvpP/TvzgLq773CGK+Jnt5L72PqRJRz1mC3JF/eqnvDTTiihmTI+9zh51xhHknJTte+lfU+uLf nsD5i0U/FZzzVQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1272 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nD1Ye-0002m6-DM; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 04:59:15 -0500 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 11:59:07 +0200 Message-Id: <838rv1fqj8.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: "Ulrich Windl" In-Reply-To: <61F261F5020000A10004730B@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> (Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de) Subject: Re: bug#24902: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; =?utf-8?Q?C=E2=80=91x?= = for Unicode References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <537072BC-F9DF-4B7B-BA88-02320A731013@acm.org> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <13FDBD490200009C5C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <61F261F5020000A10004730B@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, mattiase@acm.org, rpluim@gmail.com, 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 10:12:21 +0100 > From: "Ulrich Windl" > Cc: 24902@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org > > I don't know much about the Unicode standard, but in BabelPad (Windows > application) some character descriptions have an extra part separated with a > colon, like this: > "U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN : paragraph sign" That "paragraph sign" part comes from the old-name field of the character database: 00B6;PILCROW SIGN;Po;0;ON;;;;;N;PARAGRAPH SIGN;;;; ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 27 05:11:20 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jan 2022 10:11:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54430 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nD1kN-0001PN-P6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 05:11:19 -0500 Received: from mx4.uni-regensburg.de ([194.94.157.149]:45238) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nD1kL-0001Oj-Bf for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 05:11:18 -0500 Received: from mx4.uni-regensburg.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 488A06000053 for <24902@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 11:11:15 +0100 (CET) Received: from gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de (gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de [132.199.5.51]) by mx4.uni-regensburg.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ECF96000052 for <24902@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 11:11:15 +0100 (CET) Received: from uni-regensburg-smtp1-MTA by gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 11:11:15 +0100 Message-Id: <61F26FC2020000A100047320@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 18.3.1 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 11:11:14 +0100 From: "Ulrich Windl" To: "Robert Pluim" Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:=20Antw:=20[EXT]=20Re:=20bug#24902:=2025.1;=20C?= =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=91x=3D=20for=20Unicode?= References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <537072BC-F9DF-4B7B-BA88-02320A731013@acm.org> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <13FDBD490200009C5C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <61F261F5020000A10004730B@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de><61F261F5020000A10004730B@gwsmtp.uni„regensburg.de> (Ulrich Windl's message of "Thu, 27 Jan 2022 10:12:21 +0100") <87y231fr9l.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <87y231fr9l.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: mattiase@acm.org, 24902@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) >>> Robert Pluim schrieb am 27.01.2022 um 10:43 in Nachricht <87y231fr9l.fsf@gmail.com>: [...] > > Ulrich> I don't know much about the Unicode standard, but in BabelPad > (Windows > Ulrich> application) some character descriptions have an extra part > separated with a > Ulrich> colon, like this: > Ulrich> "U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN : paragraph sign" > > Ulrich> So maybe the quotes may be justified. > > Those are codepoints which have both a 'name' and an 'old-name'. > 'C-u C-x =' will show both by default, I donʼt think itʼs necessary > for 'C-x =', which will show 'name' if it exists, else 'old-name'. > > Iʼm more interested in the visual separation between the U+ABCD and > the name. Well I think _one_ space after U+xxxx is fine; it's visual enough for me. Personaly I'd prefer delimiting a name consisting of multiple words by quotes. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 27 05:20:52 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jan 2022 10:20:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54445 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nD1tc-0003tp-2G for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 05:20:52 -0500 Received: from mail-wm1-f45.google.com ([209.85.128.45]:53928) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nD1tX-0003tM-QU for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 05:20:51 -0500 Received: by mail-wm1-f45.google.com with SMTP id n8so1524893wmk.3 for <24902@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 02:20:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=QEguQeV4hBpld2MRS/H0DLLHLJJIb5gRLIuhqTPZJA0=; b=EdAqwvdedvNEcYdnuIWVEP5a9XSzfITVfvIc1JidabevdCRHZpY8C5TsPeHOVeiLlY 7pHipufitd3oq2H9nvdPM7+kenIYHlaF6I6njKUTFv9zZhykjiguXxCEJz14DPTbthe9 j/6W+GVh4qKfy+hNUhQi2v38JO4mcyiTDKT7MgL1Y9sUgMjvq12P6L49tTOiOnn7mjNL azenvhgFe6DpGVIaExR0327qxGvVogNj3Dd5lpbCWdP6KRiKW7wAErdqbO5CSHvhh7DQ dLAoiFbpORmJnP3qf9i8CuXOCEaO6L20eTXjjrChx4G/ZEYV50u2rDEayBOhPBIoaZVn KS8w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=QEguQeV4hBpld2MRS/H0DLLHLJJIb5gRLIuhqTPZJA0=; b=eJ2T+Etfjp71c9fjSRQgG+mvjm/AD/7ynkYUQT1BRrpGP7NKABwvOE7Cav9Y/X6Hul gSaySmx/DaPfTdoYSj0AQnK3SGmh4oXgykXF3bFsT4unCVrlcM6rvqicFXxD1xer15xs 8L8pTRF7UelbEXwMrdfgaZo+zf4OlG/tDIga19tWRYer+OMBVvYNYymWFSsMOktgDqhe a4b7thhDFDDJECSOvT4kQ8BuMmoOaGSaDKU8dHhqkCIcsn8W7GZ8rEscB0pFc/pknXbq 9OmRIDe/WJT+8kSfVEwE0EXKP9hP3CFrbnJ4OECcHv+VzAuhf7AkFLTydbvzSlB+4ev8 X/VA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532I8kdaQ1E8hHfJDF9vkMvvdrYGp5DUw8jVQB/phmwub/7l/X1P +zhD+XZVVWhIQD64t3JwvN0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxYS76dTPoqGdZczQbZmMLGr0IerGHJtTlD7EbrOfC9XAiCXj4/P2VgGy4rd6mICUGi7Cgcjg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:1988:: with SMTP id t8mr2596878wmq.66.1643278841940; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 02:20:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from rltb ([2a01:e0a:3f3:fb50:4697:da8d:60b1:c955]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j15sm1882866wmq.19.2022.01.27.02.20.41 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 27 Jan 2022 02:20:41 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Pluim To: "Ulrich Windl" Subject: Re: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; =?utf-8?Q?C=E2=80=91x=3D?= for Unicode References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <537072BC-F9DF-4B7B-BA88-02320A731013@acm.org> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <13FDBD490200009C5C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <61F261F5020000A10004730B@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> =?utf-8?Q?=3C61F261F5020000A10004730B=40gwsmtp=2Euni=D0=B2egensburg=2Ede?= =?utf-8?Q?=3E?= <87y231fr9l.fsf@gmail.com> <61F26FC2020000A100047320@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 11:20:40 +0100 In-Reply-To: <61F26FC2020000A100047320@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> (Ulrich Windl's message of "Thu, 27 Jan 2022 11:11:14 +0100") Message-ID: <87k0elfpjb.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: mattiase@acm.org, 24902@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 11:11:14 +0100, "Ulrich Windl" said: >>>> Robert Pluim schrieb am 27.01.2022 um 10:43 in >> I=CA=BCm more interested in the visual separation between the U+ABCD= and >> the name. Ulrich> Well I think _one_ space after U+xxxx is fine; it's visual enou= gh for me. Ulrich> Personaly I'd prefer delimiting a name consisting of multiple w= ords by Ulrich> quotes. Yes, that=CA=BCs what I meant by 'visual separation', although 'delimiting' is a better expression of that. In the 'traditional + what-cursor-show-names =3D t' mode, you get that, except that it=CA=BCs not the same delimiter on either end of the name, it=CA=BCs ", " at the start, and ")" at the end: Char: t (116, #o164, #x74, LATIN SMALL LETTER T) point=3D1889 of 1948 (97%)= <955-1949> column=3D0 Robert --=20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 27 07:38:31 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jan 2022 12:38:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54540 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nD42e-0001IR-6r for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 07:38:31 -0500 Received: from mail1465c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.14.65]:46090 helo=mail268c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nD42a-0001IB-7C for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 07:38:18 -0500 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1643287088; bh=zQFeetZE/ekDAJoM+DTTuRHOfSNLHYndvbkznHyH++k=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=D04Hj/QYwK1vtfPXRIyC+vlRc20+yS7gU95vloQs915c+cT3taojd3XGZfGpCDu+L hup0iDUCMQXr8BIb6JwApJpSPu6dHE0hHCYrd42vl/QtL8gtVccHpWTtY43uTn7Lo4 y0NI7s1P82wtGq0J5dmahWDsF94euJpG+j4mzrNk= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from smtpclient.apple (c-b952e353.032-75-73746f71.bbcust.telenor.se [83.227.82.185]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail268c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 20RCc6Pc025970; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 12:38:07 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IEFudHc6IFtFWFRdIFJlOiBidWcjMjQ5MDI6IDI1LjE7IEM=?= =?utf-8?B?4oCReCA9IGZvciBVbmljb2Rl?= From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <87y231fr9l.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 13:38:05 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <537072BC-F9DF-4B7B-BA88-02320A731013@acm.org> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <13FDBD490200009C5C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <61F261F5020000A10004730B@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <87y231fr9l.fsf@gmail.com> To: Robert Pluim X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A742F15.61F29230.0055, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-Origin-Country: SE X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: 27 jan. 2022 kl. 10.43 skrev Robert Pluim : > Those are codepoints which have both a 'name' and an 'old-name'. > 'C-u C-x =' will show both by default, I donʼt think itʼs necessary > for 'C-x =', which will show 'name' if it exists, else 'old [...] Content analysis details: (1.4 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.4 KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS Relay HELO differs from its IP's reverse DNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Ulrich Windl , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) 27 jan. 2022 kl. 10.43 skrev Robert Pluim : > Those are codepoints which have both a 'name' and an 'old-name'. > 'C-u C-x =3D' will show both by default, I don=CA=BCt think it=CA=BCs = necessary > for 'C-x =3D', which will show 'name' if it exists, else 'old-name'. Right, and it is probably the right call here -- only control characters = have an old-name but no name (some have neither). There is a single name/old-name collision, U+1F514 vs U+0007, but = there's no serious risk of confusion. > I=CA=BCm more interested in the visual separation between the U+ABCD = and > the name. Just a space seems to be the standard convention to the point that = characters are nowadays often identified in that manner in prose, as in = U+00A7 SECTION SIGN. It also reinforces the connection between the code and the name, being = separate from the rest of the information being displayed, which is = about the cursor position. Is it good enough, you think? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 27 08:24:14 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jan 2022 13:24:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54570 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nD4l3-0002TH-U3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 08:24:14 -0500 Received: from mx1.uni-regensburg.de ([194.94.157.146]:57894) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nD4l1-0002T5-AZ for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 08:24:11 -0500 Received: from mx1.uni-regensburg.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 503A8600005B for <24902@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 14:24:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de (gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de [132.199.5.51]) by mx1.uni-regensburg.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 340456000059 for <24902@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 14:24:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from uni-regensburg-smtp1-MTA by gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 14:24:09 +0100 Message-Id: <61F29CF6020000A100047343@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 18.3.1 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 14:24:06 +0100 From: "Ulrich Windl" To: ,"Robert Pluim" Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:=20Antw:=20[EXT]=20Re:=20bug#24902:=2025.1;=20C?= =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=91x=20=3D=20for=20Unicode?= References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <537072BC-F9DF-4B7B-BA88-02320A731013@acm.org> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <13FDBD490200009C5C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <61F261F5020000A10004730B@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <87y231fr9l.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: 24902@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) >>> Mattias EngdegÃ¥rd schrieb am 27.01.2022 um 13:38 in Nachricht : > 27 jan. 2022 kl. 10.43 skrev Robert Pluim : > >> Those are codepoints which have both a 'name' and an 'old-name'. >> 'C-u C-x =' will show both by default, I donʼt think itʼs necessary >> for 'C-x =', which will show 'name' if it exists, else 'old-name'. > > Right, and it is probably the right call here -- only control characters > have an old-name but no name (some have neither). > There is a single name/old-name collision, U+1F514 vs U+0007, but there's no > serious risk of confusion. According to BabelPad the names are different: U+0007 : ALERT [BEL] U+1F514 BELL > >> Iʼm more interested in the visual separation between the U+ABCD and >> the name. U+ABCD MEETEI MAYEK LETTER HUK : ha ;-) > > Just a space seems to be the standard convention to the point that > characters are nowadays often identified in that manner in prose, as in > U+00A7 SECTION SIGN. > It also reinforces the connection between the code and the name, being > separate from the rest of the information being displayed, which is about the > cursor position. Is it good enough, you think? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 27 10:39:58 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jan 2022 15:39:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56209 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nD6sQ-0000DK-Mc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 10:39:58 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:59912) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nD6sP-0000D5-7a for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 10:39:57 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=xZ+bB3+rwouG03aop1I4hZsDVHnCqTR73XTfVZ+NUpE=; b=rHGqB0Nmn5redi40Qk919JA80P gQAZw0Rt4yWIIEnXbbX2zVb3wx545LmhbwgSY2eUIlrX304tI7W6S2UFuxIhjNOvfUB6PGk430tIc J4RE5l0Yau+LtmvtmeIPOljP7FTMaiAcJiqpHMuMWuTOXPVTSIbh0Z+iBiXQhylmWn40=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=giant) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nD6sG-00084c-80; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 16:39:50 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Subject: Re: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <61F1561A020000A1000472CB@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAD1BMVEXp5OKzpqKKeHVS PTv///9X6rKaAAAAAWJLR0QEj2jZUQAAAAd0SU1FB+YBGw8UJK9A36gAAAGSSURBVDjLbZMLtsMg CETRbgBxA4obaHT/e3sDfpK2j9M0jdeBwRIKhEiNI9OJqBTJnwNAuUHoADP+UZDnyh8gKGUqW1G+ FMl3tvJRY6Zi/gV8in+DsH7m8lVjg1hiXbs5WY0bhLqyjMofYKUKqfWCzn8AtTau/xQkBsZxFesG quMNgM7hg5I8wRWbAQ+AGlaqBlDQudQFcIMpzjiPUQRZUtIKoC5lsh1SAXBXRLxCQrUA0EZNwTLJ AlXQc0hpDBgj3y72SSpFVNjAFUhPgFbp6qAracfjXAbIVdMGQ+b+jgvZsM2AzAY5ApinLuJgnLPS 1n3SNNdsQE2BC+m6tX5AWwqYtWGJAJeDtP5o1LT5enVpVzup7shdxgTVgWUh+3r1tEAhq30GyhQz +LFqrq8b8BqzBdpcv4j4U6ELuCLcoLbu4E3TLq3X5AA2EA1M1auOCeirxgY2u/xk+QBbfXQC0JZb 4mcy1d0epsT9LMdNp8KWps8FJG/F7ANgn8nYbu10Yc1f9gO6vxrknoN747COMPEfhaRNUtUweIMA AAAldEVYdGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjItMDEtMjdUMTU6MjA6MzYrMDA6MDDp+J7lAAAAJXRFWHRk YXRlOm1vZGlmeQAyMDIyLTAxLTI3VDE1OjIwOjM2KzAwOjAwmKUmWQAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: David Sylvian's _Brilliant Trees_: "Brilliant Trees" Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 16:39:47 +0100 In-Reply-To: ("Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd=22's?= message of "Wed, 26 Jan 2022 17:53:00 +0100") Message-ID: <87v8y5mblo.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Mattias EngdegÃ¥rd writes: >> 2) Should the percentage be included when point position is included? > > That percentage smelled "included because we could" from afar. It's > not very useful; the current/maximum point positions [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: Ulrich Windl , Robert Pluim , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd writes: >> 2) Should the percentage be included when point position is included? > > That percentage smelled "included because we could" from afar. It's > not very useful; the current/maximum point positions give the user a > good idea how far in the buffer he is. Stepping back a bit, `C-x =3D' does two things now, and neither very well: It says something about the character under point, and it says something about where in the buffer you are. I think it might make more sense to split this into two commands, where one would more fully describe the character under point, and the other command says where you are in the buffer. For instance, it would be nice if it said what percentage the line you're at is. (Nice if you're going through a list of items and wonder what percentage you're at.) --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 27 12:24:45 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jan 2022 17:24:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56433 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nD8Vp-0003iq-1k for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 12:24:45 -0500 Received: from relay2-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.194]:47527) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nD8Vm-0003iZ-TE for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 12:24:43 -0500 Received: (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7BF4640003; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 17:24:34 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#24902: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <61F1561A020000A1000472CB@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <87v8y5mblo.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 19:11:43 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87v8y5mblo.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Thu, 27 Jan 2022 16:39:47 +0100") Message-ID: <867dal9k8g.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: Mattias =?iso-8859-1?Q?Engdeg=E5rd?= , Ulrich Windl , Robert Pluim , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Stepping back a bit, `C-x =' does two things now, and neither very well: > It says something about the character under point, and it says something > about where in the buffer you are. > > I think it might make more sense to split this into two commands, where > one would more fully describe the character under point, and the other > command says where you are in the buffer. > > For instance, it would be nice if it said what percentage the line you're > at is. (Nice if you're going through a list of items and wonder what > percentage you're at.) This looks more like `M-='. When the region is not activated, currently it does nothing and signals an error. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 28 08:09:59 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jan 2022 13:09:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57695 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDR0p-0002Cc-AJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 08:09:59 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47532) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDR0m-0002CK-0s for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 08:09:57 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=48144 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nDR0f-0007pX-5s; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 08:09:49 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=Xo0EeTe3e3h3sVfyCLyW2dN3600yPAjNhxoyJFjtQCw=; b=pMfFKE6tfuEi +DZu0fBQ2+To7aMRLI8Gl2+6M85IXkV8V74r1Z8sn2krTvTMbNQzia8AsIJv8fkQkjK6h45gmT8Wy tmTztmFC4320mRLIQAPdEXWAf4b2wCguoTZTL3b6EtgXgjF5C36FcNoLJIcdjWg9tNrXySRHsOPDG p4jbvqRfBadPYF137Qt5JQMisgqB1hNBZTd22y+Ar60X/hSMM33UN81n5u2Rk01w3eRCJU3tDcn+z C1Xk3SaCKOgTRdyWRq0Jd5OQ0ElXtnQLf5k6XREBrZNpigTv26cRpNG6OZp39xgfwlm6Ro3lR8ftv ktHZv/iy3Q5I2LJBB+klJw==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nDR0e-0006nk-Tp; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 08:09:48 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Juri Linkov In-Reply-To: <867dal9k8g.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Thu, 27 Jan 2022 19:11:43 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#24902: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <61F1561A020000A1000472CB@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <87v8y5mblo.fsf@gnus.org> <867dal9k8g.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Message-Id: Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 08:09:48 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: 24902@debbugs.gnu.org, mattiase@acm.org, larsi@gnus.org, Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de, rpluim@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > Stepping back a bit, `C-x =' does two things now, and neither very well: > > It says something about the character under point, and it says something > > about where in the buffer you are. > > > > I think it might make more sense to split this into two commands, where > > one would more fully describe the character under point, and the other > > command says where you are in the buffer. I put those things together in one command so as to economize on key bindings. That advantage still exists, so I don't think we should split it. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 28 08:45:17 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jan 2022 13:45:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57719 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDRYy-0003BI-Tb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 08:45:17 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:41922) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDRYx-0003Az-JU for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 08:45:16 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Q0xr8Txym4WvOrzdGSQ3plCkV0LAmZ3JUtJKPPXnVd8=; b=d+ss44exiuzCGKX9DQyonsnDmV IunEB9iPXFpiuHaZyPGTJT9099sONeIWq4c7iUnhJEs3ZYAQclBHKGcx/z5lJPQ2DxHrHPP3lLQzQ IrExKp7Za92ceykK+ckAGlL8gMZWQmadBaZi8+8tejz/bDBfhlg9dfHRCu6S/auYI2fw=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=giant) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nDRYo-0002rR-0q; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 14:45:08 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Juri Linkov Subject: Re: bug#24902: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <61F1561A020000A1000472CB@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <87v8y5mblo.fsf@gnus.org> <867dal9k8g.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAElBMVEXEaDflmFTJxsRW dKVaa4////95E3pLAAAAAWJLR0QF+G/pxwAAAAd0SU1FB+YBGBIkKQj8CisAAAGdSURBVDjLnZPr dcMgDIXhnAyAcQcIkhcwMEBPYP+ZeiVhGzfpnyqOE/NZ6HVxzi1qDubx1T+fTEBMRG/rMCIq5QPA an4HzmNdbDzJDgGXc4+u1u5g8Y9eW++lzx7CDofZA1X44EtpEqGW82U1v5bDRt1LXJaEHy69dly1 DRAGZuzSDAjxXjPS2s6tbsZ/AWSECLWe6R7WW2tVwv8CUl0Vr9avrXQOZYohjbMxBL9Q4pyp5Fx4 gBiXFHxMaQWA7evsgZHunIlL5rKaBLCLvMBzDDcUotn2VrXnkq4/gXfIsh4MM7Aow6Nfg1JgervH wEIkei5TD9GZooIh6i8CWaEn1isLiAKIUgAgYqmPM5uDGgo0gBppBmkA+QiIdLr4EduymoB7pLjq mKSOG9gZoFjlspQHcJnWquqFB00e/qgbEj3Aph4qhtZUcJG2l4CN7HRU7eQVvNt5ZEi0WVaexAG3 5EwoeXR3agkeAvEubWRr+gVwGmIhqMG6i822px2tAMnzGJS6bDpgH2xetdkEN4q3s74dov66BPEt t+D+YT/qaHW8auKAUgAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAyMi0wMS0yNFQxODozNjo0MSswMDow MITu0nkAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjItMDEtMjRUMTg6MzY6NDErMDA6MDD1s2rFAAAA AElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Joe Jackson's _Big World_: "We Can't Live Together" Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 14:45:02 +0100 In-Reply-To: <867dal9k8g.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (Juri Linkov's message of "Thu, 27 Jan 2022 19:11:43 +0200") Message-ID: <8735l8ht41.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Juri Linkov writes: > This looks more like `M-='. When the region is not activated, > currently it does nothing and signals an error. Hm, yes, then we could use that for one or the other of the commands (if we decide to split them up). Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= , Ulrich Windl , Robert Pluim , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Juri Linkov writes: > This looks more like `M-='. When the region is not activated, > currently it does nothing and signals an error. Hm, yes, then we could use that for one or the other of the commands (if we decide to split them up). -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 28 09:16:48 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jan 2022 14:16:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57893 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDS3S-0004A8-Ue for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 09:16:48 -0500 Received: from mail233c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.10.243]:39668 helo=mail37c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDS3N-00049b-M5 for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 09:16:45 -0500 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1643379399; bh=EwpzYfCR66zcUNZ0PqzlOFjRSL3hVyyaflURVz5aGtY=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=m5bvuk4dvJtJOdk1WixCsNnDFu5JFoZI6iayawMMbevJ1hutDb5l0nYqNSv5v9inw sk0CsGG29oZQGGYhHjXDjdw6+TxAukSRG34WhZtfYi1kPC30eumiZkitexlzyEA+Gc ffKoJGFnzBVKoY+7V7u/6PhESKF1R49GEYx4pS/Y= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from smtpclient.apple (c-b952e353.032-75-73746f71.bbcust.telenor.se [83.227.82.185]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail37c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 20SEGZkl025784; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 14:16:37 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <87v8y5mblo.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 15:16:34 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <61F1561A020000A1000472CB@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <87v8y5mblo.fsf@gnus.org> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A742F25.61F3FAC6.00B8, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-Origin-Country: SE X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: 27 jan. 2022 kl. 16.39 skrev Lars Ingebrigtsen : > Stepping back a bit, `C-x =' does two things now, and neither very well: > It says something about the character under point, and it says something > about where in the buffer you are. > > I think i [...] Content analysis details: (1.4 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.4 KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS Relay HELO differs from its IP's reverse DNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: Ulrich Windl , Robert Pluim , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) 27 jan. 2022 kl. 16.39 skrev Lars Ingebrigtsen : > Stepping back a bit, `C-x =3D' does two things now, and neither very = well: > It says something about the character under point, and it says = something > about where in the buffer you are. >=20 > I think it might make more sense to split this into two commands, = where > one would more fully describe the character under point, and the other > command says where you are in the buffer. That's an interesting aspect and it is true that the user is only = interested in one of the parts: either the character or the position = (etc). On the other hand, both currently fit in the echo area (with some = care; it's partly what this bug is about), and it is not clear that the = added room for information motivates the increased cognitive load that = an extra binding implies. In a modern editor it would perhaps make sense to to have the = position-related data in a live view that can be shown or hidden at any = time. This is clearly popular for line and column numbers; some writers = like live word counts, and so on. Character info is less useful as live = information and more likely something called up on command. For that matter, many users employ the vertical scroll bar as a live = approximate position/size indicator. I just wish its height were based = on lines instead of characters. Anyway, what about making the proposed minor reform to `C-x =3D` now and = plan for a more extensive overhaul separately? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 28 09:37:37 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jan 2022 14:37:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57950 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDSNd-0006ze-J0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 09:37:37 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41972) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDSNb-0006zP-RA for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 09:37:37 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=56294 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nDSNU-0005zr-Mt; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 09:37:28 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=Bq0/cz9Mlocb/ybHh3UdYeMYYUrKOuP52RFfg/19eAE=; b=LBst7LXm/Vbz QLa9n5Z/K3YlT7wr4IZXGeCA3shPxaemyojgJkKsFbNUHV+qC2sGz3UDbyOlhWziMzEB45LkKwMSA tTiPZKI6jAwiXu2FQk0jTquPUZh6jiNHgxjPjc/ecC7Z+cfhlFN6OcwIqkwjSIKIDAYot/w5UwhoC DtFOCWuMZihYlpGc7Z4FS8Sh4y/DkflAXhzFbwhQW45ELZLE/2CbJAsohq3i5FpD2Y1KJkeMeTC2W 5u98BevAsHJaiOmqKXNrXGeSup3UmOKpOuHfNyWJhioLz2URnh2ze+Xoh6Ib11iHbty+th8e4Xq5E rIjNDIHFasOrvuPGfiluVA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3217 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nDSNT-00056u-HT; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 09:37:28 -0500 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 16:37:23 +0200 Message-Id: <83ee4sc4f0.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: rms@gnu.org In-Reply-To: (message from Richard Stallman on Fri, 28 Jan 2022 08:09:48 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#24902: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <61F1561A020000A1000472CB@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <87v8y5mblo.fsf@gnus.org> <867dal9k8g.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: mattiase@acm.org, rpluim@gmail.com, Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de, juri@linkov.net, 24902@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Richard Stallman > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 08:09:48 -0500 > Cc: mattiase@acm.org, 24902@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com, larsi@gnus.org, > Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de > > > > Stepping back a bit, `C-x =' does two things now, and neither very well: > > > It says something about the character under point, and it says something > > > about where in the buffer you are. > > > > > > I think it might make more sense to split this into two commands, where > > > one would more fully describe the character under point, and the other > > > command says where you are in the buffer. > > I put those things together in one command so as to economize on key > bindings. That advantage still exists, so I don't think we should > split it. I would also hate to use two commands where one does the job today. "C-x =" is a command I use very frequently, and it is very useful. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 2678f110-3fe2-4b3d-cb7c-08d9e280660d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 28 Jan 2022 17:05:34.5194 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: +TAriRZJ0UWz8EIu07FpXp1qeHJfrq9pJIzEXsQaw434X03oENjdLES6JqBnkrSfbt5CQzZ6W2FIUBlKKel5xg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN6PR1001MB2324 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10240 signatures=669575 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=864 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2201110000 definitions=main-2201280104 X-Proofpoint-GUID: VaV8r7dRoVydFhKtkm96S1z6xU6Ry8LI X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: VaV8r7dRoVydFhKtkm96S1z6xU6Ry8LI X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: "mattiase@acm.org" , "rpluim@gmail.com" , "Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de" , "juri@linkov.net" , "24902@debbugs.gnu.org" <24902@debbugs.gnu.org>, "larsi@gnus.org" X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > I put those things together in one command so as to economize on key > > bindings. That advantage still exists, so I don't think we should > > split it. >=20 > I would also hate to use two commands where one does the job today. > "C-x =3D" is a command I use very frequently, and it is very useful. +1. 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 9ba29aaa-2a5e-49f0-04d0-08d9e28064e6 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 28 Jan 2022 17:05:32.5342 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: hrNBsj9+YkAWM+HU6jtWUCQ3hoJlmR87FPyz0Oct/odxnpdtydFIiJAk1/wNKv40h/1tg/aSSKPMMZq7ISYpfg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN6PR1001MB2324 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10240 signatures=669575 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 malwarescore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=611 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2201110000 definitions=main-2201280104 X-Proofpoint-GUID: NJdUhu_9sUIGXaF6x6WZwQuinSyLq9P4 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: NJdUhu_9sUIGXaF6x6WZwQuinSyLq9P4 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: Ulrich Windl , Robert Pluim , "24902@debbugs.gnu.org" <24902@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > it is true that the user is only interested > in one of the parts: either the character or > the position (etc). Not really. _Some_ user might _sometime_ be interested in only one of the parts. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 29 09:32:53 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Jan 2022 14:32:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32963 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDoma-00065D-Uc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2022 09:32:53 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:53002) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDomZ-00064x-1Z for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2022 09:32:51 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=pz43yLmpMjt3/gu3aSv2rX3KuyVPX7X+dSskVAu2vl0=; b=hfsXU87Oq+r3u593ndUoj/EiGL oT1tDZU8Y2OaNvXgIaJnTi87yWMoMHyna2w+Dgwk7RVqQY0MVVO7v6+bgxRRDmY/FuMv9PPPyXr9F S5/U4ptuz/z943x+VoqsgsPeQWW8xvltgesAw9TejqtQjDX0ZHYjKFqBN5ez7HjB7OC8=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=giant) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nDomP-0003XD-C6; Sat, 29 Jan 2022 15:32:43 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Subject: Re: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <61F1561A020000A1000472CB@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <87v8y5mblo.fsf@gnus.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAADFBMVEU1MzOVgnXGwb7/ //9KtDuHAAAAAWJLR0QDEQxM8gAAAAd0SU1FB+YBHQ4eEFCy9nwAAAF0SURBVCjPVdKxbtswEAbg X4LJgVuKOCg8dwjyFJSBeOgkAz4NmrooQPgUjoF0Vo26g6cMpCHeU+aOcgxUkz795I8TJWBJLb4u ov/QxRt+oZ5QBU6BGVGSb2+CXhDGVdz6wLmgsdNS0SnccTKmvybuGGF7DiXZrGOLfl72sndxB8dp tyS85DBBkAmEbnQFXNCsY8GpHdBpG1aC+y88cWp2UtBsCnIje8jbCYvA53cMoBjmPe+VtPlr9R8S VOvcKhqFO0xbX5IdyP2ezLzsGReP16ag8lKAx1LwJuAVa9uF5QLL9CUp0AlgrwnsdEvyiWfoiV72 P+Mt6RaHGf8E/fdj9Hogeoj94pC3rdwNNID3LrcVMaf2LzKF3NZnAX6AK5ZE9iTcg0c7v9wonzG9 1nKyCmOQZLY7GOKLfwBvQqxgEye/RHq2MoHtwwiDD1/HypsT76Vg0J/Cuy5p2wdqHTQkr9XUyTPX Z0UXdIGls+6hkOSvMgWfJVnGkipgUgAAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjItMDEtMjlUMTQ6 MzA6MTUrMDA6MDCmr3PrAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOm1vZGlmeQAyMDIyLTAxLTI5VDE0OjMwOjE1KzAw OjAw1/LLVwAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: Frankie Goes To Hollywood's _Liverpool_: "Lunar Bay" Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2022 15:32:39 +0100 In-Reply-To: ("Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd=22's?= message of "Fri, 28 Jan 2022 15:16:34 +0100") Message-ID: <87sft6d33s.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Mattias EngdegÃ¥rd writes: > For that matter, many users employ the vertical scroll bar as a live > approximate position/size indicator. I just wish its height were based > on lines instead of characters. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: Ulrich Windl , Robert Pluim , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd writes: > For that matter, many users employ the vertical scroll bar as a live > approximate position/size indicator. I just wish its height were based > on lines instead of characters. Yes, that'd be much better. > Anyway, what about making the proposed minor reform to `C-x =3D` now and > plan for a more extensive overhaul separately? No matter what we do, we're going to annoy some people, so why annoy them twice? =F0=9F=98=80 --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 29 09:34:38 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Jan 2022 14:34:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32968 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDooI-00068i-9p for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2022 09:34:38 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:53024) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDooG-00068S-M5 for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2022 09:34:37 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=C3vXyXnmUEdI1KSuiHB8GQkdS+2/vB9Bx7bHKveOGjU=; b=P+hHzJ8qWtLzf9MLlIQDrFc8J8 UDE/HnfoLYcQdbM+gYA8SnHjTbWBZTBajwWiVgvpnmkgM2+fU2AwxCXl9GDbkF3E9/8FU/E4kz08+ gRKjFPEPPGmgHml9WUHoJJ/C4G9D4bD4OtOmXE0MA6wJdRRZ1kl1f+tOqN+pBZefAKmM=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=giant) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nDoo7-0003Xg-A0; Sat, 29 Jan 2022 15:34:29 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24902: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <61F1561A020000A1000472CB@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <87v8y5mblo.fsf@gnus.org> <867dal9k8g.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83ee4sc4f0.fsf@gnu.org> X-Now-Playing: Frankie Goes To Hollywood's _Liverpool_: "For Heaven's Sake" Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2022 15:34:25 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83ee4sc4f0.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 28 Jan 2022 16:37:23 +0200") Message-ID: <87o83ud30u.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > I would also hate to use two commands where one does the job today. > "C-x =" is a command I use very frequently, and it is very useful. Do you use it to examine the character under point and its position at the same time? If so, when? Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: rms@gnu.org, mattiase@acm.org, rpluim@gmail.com, Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de, juri@linkov.net, 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: > I would also hate to use two commands where one does the job today. > "C-x =" is a command I use very frequently, and it is very useful. Do you use it to examine the character under point and its position at the same time? If so, when? (I do both things, but I don't think I've ever felt the need for both things at the same time, so I'm curious when you'd want both at the same time.) -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 29 09:57:36 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Jan 2022 14:57:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34419 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDpAR-0007DH-Va for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2022 09:57:36 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:53336) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDpAQ-0007D5-L5 for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2022 09:57:31 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=52906 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nDpAJ-0006Qx-Vt; Sat, 29 Jan 2022 09:57:24 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=D2W4y9eOqYHJFr+we/4ItxYVVBquQzdMTuVO6OdVeFw=; b=NFsOM6Cq8tj+ F9FTatRYDPzdrJURO2GjTAnX0/W0st88GXiTkh/fzZVggWJplUKrQ4ACRyu0mtJxiRLp5vibirosU CtRrrAYxVKF8G0BpfH2o1BCCcvZX4nv7x9Of8HmzGAi6Ymh+1crc7rvH10+4X7F+UEunX/54e0PR4 iV6LpYnsA0JnR8wF4/GuGPnWwcUcl2ItUJPmFtmY2QMnCGhjAFkkNTo6E06L0atX6Ypi10TAkJJxY AkeWV2bpb1k78XFrCeL+L3c20LbVGOe2BCW8SGJEvsJeWcyoriZRGWLP1qTu2dwyHhksUzi1Rmr8z r9dQ6vNJNXCLcbNhh4gcYQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1535 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nDpAJ-0000Q8-0H; Sat, 29 Jan 2022 09:57:23 -0500 Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2022 16:57:13 +0200 Message-Id: <83leyybnee.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87o83ud30u.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Sat, 29 Jan 2022 15:34:25 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#24902: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <61F1561A020000A1000472CB@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <87v8y5mblo.fsf@gnus.org> <867dal9k8g.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83ee4sc4f0.fsf@gnu.org> <87o83ud30u.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: rms@gnu.org, mattiase@acm.org, rpluim@gmail.com, Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de, juri@linkov.net, 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: rms@gnu.org, mattiase@acm.org, rpluim@gmail.com, > Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de, juri@linkov.net, > 24902@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2022 15:34:25 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > I would also hate to use two commands where one does the job today. > > "C-x =" is a command I use very frequently, and it is very useful. > > Do you use it to examine the character under point and its position at > the same time? If so, when? For example, when there's some problem with cursor position, and I want to know where point _really_ is. Also, when there are many similar characters in the buffer, and seeing both the character itself and its position goes a long way towards disambiguating stuff. The "part of display ..." and the EOB indication are also occasionally very useful. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 29 11:48:07 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Jan 2022 16:48:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34582 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDqtT-0000dS-80 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2022 11:48:07 -0500 Received: from mail210c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.10.220]:60310 helo=mail194c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDqtQ-0000d3-2X for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2022 11:48:05 -0500 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1643474882; bh=dF9GqmNwAMcYOZv6IRne2euvb7MYxOTFCrQiV1RUqTs=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=KHd2/ouPilDC3gyK3UpBe+26eWyH7fAU2b+TDAi3KSC35+lZiaxzmKDMlJk6mRAHt 7yPDiLiHE/8h/pw47gOhHyF95GmkfemLgwgjNexV1dYLjm5Qc7kFedafaFzRTfj/pq 93H40CAbu9in4g4fjI7GQP1Ka/YoOaq8NQe1RhYQ= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from smtpclient.apple (c-b952e353.032-75-73746f71.bbcust.telenor.se [83.227.82.185]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail194c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 20TGlxxG015054; Sat, 29 Jan 2022 16:48:00 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <87sft6d33s.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2022 17:47:58 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <759100EA-7ACC-4ADF-A452-AFE29C7B5EC1@acm.org> References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <61F1561A020000A1000472CB@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <87v8y5mblo.fsf@gnus.org> <87sft6d33s.fsf@gnus.org> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A742F16.61F56FC1.006C, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-Origin-Country: SE X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: 29 jan. 2022 kl. 15.32 skrev Lars Ingebrigtsen : >> For that matter, many users employ the vertical scroll bar as a live >> approximate position/size indicator. I just wish its height were based >> on lines instead of characters. > > Yes, that'd be [...] Content analysis details: (1.4 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.4 KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS Relay HELO differs from its IP's reverse DNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: Ulrich Windl , Robert Pluim , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) 29 jan. 2022 kl. 15.32 skrev Lars Ingebrigtsen : >> For that matter, many users employ the vertical scroll bar as a live >> approximate position/size indicator. I just wish its height were = based >> on lines instead of characters. >=20 > Yes, that'd be much better. Presumably we could use heuristics similar to line-number-mode for when = to use the line numbers and when to fall back to characters, but I'm = sure there are technicalities to work out. At least the number of lines = in the buffer changes less often. > No matter what we do, we're going to annoy some people, so why annoy > them twice? Hmmm, aren't we unnecessarily censoring ourselves now? If someone is = really annoyed by not getting the character at point in octal by default = despite that the old way is just a defcustom away, then... I don't think = we shouldn't let ourselves be ruled by that person, should we? (It's not = that we are going to lose users from the change.) I'd take it easier on the plan to split the functionality in two = commands, unless you have a clever idea. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 30 10:48:12 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Jan 2022 15:48:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37365 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nECR2-0007ww-3o for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2022 10:48:12 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:35792) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nECQz-0007wi-Rd for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2022 10:48:10 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Date: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=6dx1EtLWA21SFJMn+ziVXjnlH11DJaD2yg0sWRbuyp8=; b=HiCOMZ7N8/8s7kui4cneLEqd1S 4aGQi9oWdK1mp+Tzxx0WLcPmX1w2jPIGjqqLYNXtB/8n44p8CGDxOC0j5I5x5gNSqyRasZ3kxq7Yi 2nWjb2VndRcQKMtb+j3O/LSSl0XyZabpAqU0dVcLg+31mUPqDUfncNnIqpfYggReas6E=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=giant) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nECQp-0007kK-AC; Sun, 30 Jan 2022 16:48:01 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24902: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode In-Reply-To: <83leyybnee.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 29 Jan 2022 16:57:13 +0200") Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2022 16:47:49 +0100 Message-ID: <87a6fdcjiy.fsf@gnus.org> References: <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <61F1561A020000A1000472CB@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <87v8y5mblo.fsf@gnus.org> <867dal9k8g.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83ee4sc4f0.fsf@gnu.org> <87o83ud30u.fsf@gnus.org> <83leyybnee.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAD1BMVEXn6NJYRzsTEBSc bFr///+Q5a+sAAAAAWJLR0QEj2jZUQAAAAd0SU1FB+YBHg8pAiB74tkAAAF1SURBVDjLbZPZgYUw CEXjpAGBBh6xgRD6722ArL4ZflROWALXlIYhFjcmTW8r2/g+/Lmwh3BHB7kK4A45In4KuAe/AwYY Vs/a3EE8AtRR+yhxglYganS8gNpnAOQT5PhwMNMFUC3R0AC42rXELAOs+kw1EcACdDArzDMVEu5r JgDAWcMAHUBPcM+YxAwwACsh6TVAwQ4sTJWF80xlZ/v8AEStRFvApsAxJmiKN862UszNuwcqFXUu d4BIpZZ/z35HUDYAcgCIYfPTnuvRdoLeL7FeH97ArwEmQxCidt8HsLIPSrEpq/jLugdyY78F4bOO B4Chm7uRFN0gSvR95pqub2Do48KQNwC/yKeGvt7Al0EuyL8AwDWT8R9QtUvyG2i2kPo3lVRJWetq lydQpeQ7n/66UtGTVYbabdSaQGQFIZr4ArEm0hmDY2Xh190ukExg/hdQGBrx9w2QbJGxAt82HRH+ I/S/zpLSu8bQqtsBHsGRx0/9ArM5c6JvYejJAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIyLTAxLTMw VDE1OjQxOjAyKzAwOjAw7hAvXgAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMi0wMS0zMFQxNTo0MTow MiswMDowMJ9Nl+IAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Ida's _Ten Small Paces_: "Hilot" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > For example, when there's some problem with cursor position, and I > want to know where point _really_ is. Also, when there are many > similar characters in the buffer, and seeing both the character [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: rms@gnu.org, mattiase@acm.org, rpluim@gmail.com, Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de, juri@linkov.net, 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: > For example, when there's some problem with cursor position, and I > want to know where point _really_ is. Also, when there are many > similar characters in the buffer, and seeing both the character itself > and its position goes a long way towards disambiguating stuff. > > The "part of display ..." and the EOB indication are also occasionally > very useful. Thanks; I see. This sounds very useful especially when debugging the Emacs display, but perhaps isn't what most users would feel is vital? (But I don't know one way or the other.) What I see attractive about splitting this up into two commands is that there's more information about positions and characters that would be useful, I think. For instance, when I'm wondering about a character it's because it's odd to me somehow, so knowing the name and the general-category of the character (in addition to the Unicode char number) is what I'd like to know. And for positions, I'd really like to know the percentage point of the line. If we split this up into two commands, but added a user option to get the combined display back on `C-x =', would that be acceptable for you? (I'm not saying that I actually want that, but just exploring what our options are here; I don't have any strong feelings on the matter.) -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 30 10:50:49 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Jan 2022 15:50:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37370 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nECTZ-000814-Il for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2022 10:50:49 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:35818) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nECTX-00080q-H1 for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2022 10:50:48 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Y6VBSd3YJ+5nwieEQjYvI7j2ClXqZrqrc6NhOXup1nU=; b=EfiWOE4oJ3T+pMFRNCr7jS+XWT oe/e1UL1cYxwPV0zhdOZY1amKpa3LDm3wJulJWinnSwRZRnOHVdsXCejhHmzqgbtxK4hHDpNOZozY puXzjrEbanmi1koJ6GYqdTpIYoisQUX6qqem3YXBEd7LA3VhewcJxvqHX+i1jWcPlUT0=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=giant) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nECTO-0007nB-3p; Sun, 30 Jan 2022 16:50:40 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Subject: Re: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <61F1561A020000A1000472CB@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <87v8y5mblo.fsf@gnus.org> <87sft6d33s.fsf@gnus.org> <759100EA-7ACC-4ADF-A452-AFE29C7B5EC1@acm.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAD1BMVEXn6NJYRzsTEBSc bFr///+Q5a+sAAAAAWJLR0QEj2jZUQAAAAd0SU1FB+YBHg8pAiB74tkAAAF1SURBVDjLbZPZgYUw CEXjpAGBBh6xgRD6722ArL4ZflROWALXlIYhFjcmTW8r2/g+/Lmwh3BHB7kK4A45In4KuAe/AwYY Vs/a3EE8AtRR+yhxglYganS8gNpnAOQT5PhwMNMFUC3R0AC42rXELAOs+kw1EcACdDArzDMVEu5r JgDAWcMAHUBPcM+YxAwwACsh6TVAwQ4sTJWF80xlZ/v8AEStRFvApsAxJmiKN862UszNuwcqFXUu d4BIpZZ/z35HUDYAcgCIYfPTnuvRdoLeL7FeH97ArwEmQxCidt8HsLIPSrEpq/jLugdyY78F4bOO B4Chm7uRFN0gSvR95pqub2Do48KQNwC/yKeGvt7Al0EuyL8AwDWT8R9QtUvyG2i2kPo3lVRJWetq lydQpeQ7n/66UtGTVYbabdSaQGQFIZr4ArEm0hmDY2Xh190ukExg/hdQGBrx9w2QbJGxAt82HRH+ I/S/zpLSu8bQqtsBHsGRx0/9ArM5c6JvYejJAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIyLTAxLTMw VDE1OjQxOjAyKzAwOjAw7hAvXgAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMi0wMS0zMFQxNTo0MTow MiswMDowMJ9Nl+IAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Ida's _Ten Small Paces_: "The Weight" Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2022 16:50:37 +0100 In-Reply-To: <759100EA-7ACC-4ADF-A452-AFE29C7B5EC1@acm.org> ("Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd=22's?= message of "Sat, 29 Jan 2022 17:47:58 +0100") Message-ID: <87wnihb4tu.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Mattias EngdegÃ¥rd writes: > I'd take it easier on the plan to split the functionality in two > commands, unless you have a clever idea. Just exploring options in this area; see my response to Eli. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: Ulrich Windl , Robert Pluim , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd writes: > I'd take it easier on the plan to split the functionality in two > commands, unless you have a clever idea. Just exploring options in this area; see my response to Eli. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 30 11:47:18 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Jan 2022 16:47:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37481 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nEDM9-0005as-KN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2022 11:47:17 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41618) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nEDM5-0005aR-Ph for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2022 11:47:12 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=49844 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nEDLy-0005Xa-UM; Sun, 30 Jan 2022 11:47:02 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=/SSiDewKlOM6Ar3TxFk3gqxyZtBJtgo3Nom/d1S1VKo=; b=g/an+Fskj0kk bDX+JvRD+6VeFKnA+coaAdnIu3zuC38Z2Ed+/QsGYtdZUO2b7rPABXMlV08xKbuB7t9uhSFSYZlW8 cNlldngPS+qKO1ih8xiK1o/33s3C2HWDOQRRcoWhvMEZWd6+6B+7+ef/zPKDx1N4G/lOw5GsNPQIv TesY3Axg7TX+lonO7v46YVFtyPTs3YkqiO/zfoSHDseicnovSkeeeBuhz9afX33QWzdJ9925cxsR4 Gybztho52quks+Tps17v0cZo6vHxaJNfzMclLDApsDRSbhSzO1vJACONxxY/2ILBOSAQxJXzLG/zv 61FXwN9P06eLD2/odALIjQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1244 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nEDLx-0000ss-Us; Sun, 30 Jan 2022 11:47:02 -0500 Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2022 18:46:55 +0200 Message-Id: <83mtjd9nnk.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87a6fdcjiy.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Sun, 30 Jan 2022 16:47:49 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#24902: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <61F1561A020000A1000472CB@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <87v8y5mblo.fsf@gnus.org> <867dal9k8g.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83ee4sc4f0.fsf@gnu.org> <87o83ud30u.fsf@gnus.org> <83leyybnee.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6fdcjiy.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: rms@gnu.org, mattiase@acm.org, rpluim@gmail.com, Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de, juri@linkov.net, 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: rms@gnu.org, mattiase@acm.org, rpluim@gmail.com, > Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de, juri@linkov.net, > 24902@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2022 16:47:49 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > For example, when there's some problem with cursor position, and I > > want to know where point _really_ is. Also, when there are many > > similar characters in the buffer, and seeing both the character itself > > and its position goes a long way towards disambiguating stuff. > > > > The "part of display ..." and the EOB indication are also occasionally > > very useful. > > Thanks; I see. This sounds very useful especially when debugging the > Emacs display, but perhaps isn't what most users would feel is vital? > (But I don't know one way or the other.) Those are my frequent use cases. > If we split this up into two commands, but added a user option to get > the combined display back on `C-x =', would that be acceptable for you? > (I'm not saying that I actually want that, but just exploring what our > options are here; I don't have any strong feelings on the matter.) Why not put the 2 new commands on 2 other keys, and leave "C-x =" alone? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 31 04:59:14 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jan 2022 09:59:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38349 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nETSs-0003R5-HT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 04:59:14 -0500 Received: from mail-wr1-f49.google.com ([209.85.221.49]:43649) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nETSq-0003Qp-KV for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 04:59:13 -0500 Received: by mail-wr1-f49.google.com with SMTP id v13so24199372wrv.10 for <24902@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 01:59:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=kCdPXKmvluM7qZ8eE4AB1WrIn0gDoKZ35L18Bv2uPgk=; b=ACyleLC+b2njSvD6NHAUGapcysMNYnTR5pt36RSJtNsW0vkrPx2tb/T0+fvWrlnUDO 54fqRssmIv9k0CU3mx/7N/9DVUx775kZvnyoy5pxRRPFdy7/GbC9IZVAIj6ctWrkL/Bk 8QML0Drke1ecAmMRcmJN1LomhjfWbf9jhFbcuBaW8Zb5ttowWyg5ge9zs01gYorRVOWl CZweR8eyzBjWwdCSyUDrcxxxTGddf7WVdrwwtQvRNx4fMEs/FA2BDkQ3/UO05anhQjxt ajrTuBqTqE5XSCBCQLQOYRdZ6jfnkAJvHJ+rnAMsjF3iQkw2/G1Nat8/9mTSpym64dKN E6oQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=kCdPXKmvluM7qZ8eE4AB1WrIn0gDoKZ35L18Bv2uPgk=; b=GyTUG4lBaO8l0cISTxC1Ki6IPR9apFpxZA+ocKwLt9+TeFQHCI1VZyTUzNfTmCVIQL M4UbwWQJWLlVRrl1FtOeq4j/K7wxvpCAD89M/zHa1z3YKNqwnenegi7lJVaHHD4XZaJE xGA5mNcU7MQt5TU4toa0QmYnKJndAKCAeS9I/dd7bCxfkr7+gQxhzHll4K05/0rin9rY NiPS9Drl6BV5GW/YRbmOQccqT0XBMr0xMQ1ob8Suy6/4MWob4wHaaK4q8ZawXYLk2YD6 4SM5RlaYMlfeZ+gLFj/mZMVIP50cnWj5XVg6bPwg0i/h6Xen2ZMGv3BshqWA4wfGCOYj g76w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5316+m5um71ic6LOdHRQR1/i8KXEOlL3UlHljlh/dlnU7Xz4wnSe 3KSIPSyEmMLCycpdVv0qCvxH3twbhPo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy9IRLDDyzP0KAHfRNS5N8FyZDeKADNe20VDyEXAB13oDRbeg79HTHuM0UqkjCfIlDZHSulJg== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4583:: with SMTP id p3mr8141118wrq.33.1643623146315; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 01:59:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from rltb ([2a01:e0a:3f3:fb50:ae3c:4d3:d015:f4f]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l10sm11448364wrz.20.2022.01.31.01.59.05 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 31 Jan 2022 01:59:05 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Pluim To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24902: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <61F1561A020000A1000472CB@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <87v8y5mblo.fsf@gnus.org> <867dal9k8g.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83ee4sc4f0.fsf@gnu.org> <87o83ud30u.fsf@gnus.org> <83leyybnee.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6fdcjiy.fsf@gnus.org> <83mtjd9nnk.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 10:59:04 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83mtjd9nnk.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 30 Jan 2022 18:46:55 +0200") Message-ID: <87v8y0cjkn.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: rms@gnu.org, mattiase@acm.org, Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de, juri@linkov.net, 24902@debbugs.gnu.org, Lars Ingebrigtsen X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Sun, 30 Jan 2022 18:46:55 +0200, Eli Zaretskii said: >> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen >> Thanks; I see. This sounds very useful especially when debugging the >> Emacs display, but perhaps isn't what most users would feel is vital? >> (But I don't know one way or the other.) Eli> Those are my frequent use cases. And mine. >> If we split this up into two commands, but added a user option to get >> the combined display back on `C-x =3D', would that be acceptable for= you? >> (I'm not saying that I actually want that, but just exploring what o= ur >> options are here; I don't have any strong feelings on the matter.) Eli> Why not put the 2 new commands on 2 other keys, and leave "C-x =3D" Eli> alone? +1 on this. It=CA=BCs not like the current 'C-x =3D' output is some horrendous UI mistake that needs fixing. Robert --=20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 31 10:27:13 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jan 2022 15:27:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40271 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nEYaG-0006lp-S6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 10:27:13 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:46648) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nEYaF-0006lc-Kn for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 10:27:12 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=P1gt2OiffDzW+hcrhYE9ewS2UbclvVtvCzEWMJYyWmQ=; b=MgCZme609ezmr1bE497MKsz+jn c04DjMya5ep3J2tFiQzCaxplAFdsYFNe6ErpvLCoZmzBhdLPGEqyd5Z2MoT4TEp7yzADRJZq+9Rc2 CGTdGY/wUFS827R7IYI5JOP5ltkL2ux/JUcmHhQVqKcSN5hPRZ8k45XYwHny18tvjJqE=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=giant) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nEYa5-0003g2-R8; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 16:27:04 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24902: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <61F1561A020000A1000472CB@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <87v8y5mblo.fsf@gnus.org> <867dal9k8g.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83ee4sc4f0.fsf@gnu.org> <87o83ud30u.fsf@gnus.org> <83leyybnee.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6fdcjiy.fsf@gnus.org> <83mtjd9nnk.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAElBMVEVnUFUvICeQdnHI sqnu2c3////L8581AAAAAWJLR0QF+G/pxwAAAAd0SU1FB+YBHw8HDpp2wLsAAAGJSURBVDjLfZKL bcMwDEQppgOQnkChPUAgaYCg8v4z9SjabtKqJZAP9HT8nEhEQsTGbLXW9kkROeNrxUFvdffoBbiu hZjotk+iAGwz0JGpzcCeSebgcYJeW40IYLTsLwA9tStVnxbPtEwBBp0XB0jNC7xFzJEweeekKiLw zD3a/IS8rZo1QthsmOSTywUEOgL5CHAqht1JxWyLGuCVcJ3SQKrWRg3dvLlDEI+2taFw7iBzJgOg sl22u4Izk7louW9uLtEewBgawhjyAjxVRqeCFuh2bwE8FboEIJ+D6wMnzwvEIA5KflPgSJKnksQB 0gkw4ZKg0QOMriIVWnNvcov38Mnv+h1yAnhVXsGSoyvFTynjaoAbHe16jVrSpbDRp/g77SXz9Yha wr0DEK85RPI4Ujn4ZPi6WoraNF6I1E3EHd+bYmZrsXaB6cLpdBP7X4r9H4VbMkq349NPsP0A9d/i TxkPNQFnqgmYpoLZlNa1ZIVZ5lbUbIyd8P3SX+GbrYnG5vh/lBOhM9IXU2e7LX3c0uYAAAAldEVY dGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjItMDEtMzFUMTU6MDc6MTQrMDA6MDBSxYiuAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOm1v ZGlmeQAyMDIyLTAxLTMxVDE1OjA3OjE0KzAwOjAwI5gwEgAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: Two Nice Girls's _Chloe Liked Olivia_: "Swimming in Circles" Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 16:27:00 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83mtjd9nnk.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 30 Jan 2022 18:46:55 +0200") Message-ID: <87bkzs2aez.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> If we split this up into two commands, but added a user option to get >> the combined display back on `C-x =', would that be acceptable for you? >> (I'm not saying that I actually want that, but ju [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: rms@gnu.org, mattiase@acm.org, rpluim@gmail.com, Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de, juri@linkov.net, 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> If we split this up into two commands, but added a user option to get >> the combined display back on `C-x =', would that be acceptable for you? >> (I'm not saying that I actually want that, but just exploring what our >> options are here; I don't have any strong feelings on the matter.) > > Why not put the 2 new commands on 2 other keys, and leave "C-x =" > alone? It doesn't feel optimal to have a command that vaguely covers two other commands. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 31 11:46:59 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jan 2022 16:46:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40469 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nEZpO-0000mY-U4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 11:46:59 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:38152) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nEZpN-0000gy-2b for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 11:46:53 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=51120 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nEZpF-0004K4-Sb; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 11:46:46 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=N6ERVsg6p99qEnoKxWPZ9BC51gdKmPHo5aMCxdXl4co=; b=VOJWCGMywvJi WxtuTkFuwcPyYVjSthJTP8hqn03+041LaPaIJ6TKBQZ+oVnpuvfGComKXcJ3hg7dYvqyNaNulBipc owgZ2MeH0wJakfeOvdv+/TErm43Q/8+S1wDeHFOpBrvuLKWCrpa90XGl3aIhA22hR4A94gDMYAdgx OwESn3b9Rz812y9w3qg31JnkRIzXh7qK0csvOv8NpqW3AMrTommdc2aBIkIssU7+aSQC7xCfKR2UV uGxHDNR+sswi7Hn6bOkRlnmTuX/AHJ0mn2lzNvLp/cmdAH0mP7qbgq6QinGh7h8s+1EXCFPEf25Hm h+/+VK2ZDn6/AIlOhhlmYw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1607 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nEZpE-0001v4-3g; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 11:46:44 -0500 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 18:46:40 +0200 Message-Id: <83h79j97kf.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87bkzs2aez.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Mon, 31 Jan 2022 16:27:00 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#24902: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <61F1561A020000A1000472CB@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <87v8y5mblo.fsf@gnus.org> <867dal9k8g.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83ee4sc4f0.fsf@gnu.org> <87o83ud30u.fsf@gnus.org> <83leyybnee.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6fdcjiy.fsf@gnus.org> <83mtjd9nnk.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkzs2aez.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: rms@gnu.org, mattiase@acm.org, rpluim@gmail.com, Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de, juri@linkov.net, 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: rms@gnu.org, mattiase@acm.org, rpluim@gmail.com, > Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de, juri@linkov.net, > 24902@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 16:27:00 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > Why not put the 2 new commands on 2 other keys, and leave "C-x =" > > alone? > > It doesn't feel optimal to have a command that vaguely covers two other > commands. They are different commands with evidently different goals, so making them new commands sounds appropriate to me. If the intent is not to repurpose what-cursor-position, then what exactly is the intent? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 31 12:00:24 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jan 2022 17:00:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40519 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nEa2S-00029h-EE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 12:00:24 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:47952) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nEa2Q-00022Q-Iv for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 12:00:23 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=JCjDLAR1ZaZYXxOYwWToP2v67rK9V9Hil6FghEI3tEI=; b=NviA3x7a7oNCc8cHMutZ2uRn/D PgG3NOT1AvHzCdsFU/mj6BLEzui/t0EL37e7gUwyMhlWDU3LLIM1iLffXRnEYQKJhvbfazR12hsuL GVVeO5pJVde7Y/EJe1Rvv9x9QCHBStVnG0cfvf2xyaWvVtvZQRF4SGse8k0iluGWXDm4=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=giant) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nEa2H-0004gJ-9E; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 18:00:15 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24902: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <61F1561A020000A1000472CB@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <87v8y5mblo.fsf@gnus.org> <867dal9k8g.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83ee4sc4f0.fsf@gnu.org> <87o83ud30u.fsf@gnus.org> <83leyybnee.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6fdcjiy.fsf@gnus.org> <83mtjd9nnk.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkzs2aez.fsf@gnus.org> <83h79j97kf.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAElBMVEWeiGPHxKdbUDgy JBpNNCn///9VYhAfAAAAAWJLR0QF+G/pxwAAAAd0SU1FB+YBHxA7BvAk1TsAAAG6SURBVDjLbZLh lewgCIXR2QKSeQ2wSAF7lAJykP5reqAxk9lZ/iSHzwsXFNJGHrDPAEjrj4pAOR66288m6VG+L2Ad Cvw79vqz1fR4fO/pBF/HF+MT9wQ7pqyvUgSAuH/2QGaEvwBxdUn6BOlpDuAv4E0gO9nSG9hjQMwI G8AvRZcuaoox/w0cpXmYmYbxiG2MCNxGuApn/vQB3COvqITbyCOkFDZ6gK50xCyBxrBusw3QyHSY gkxxgBhmi2Y145YGwJyemBdo4itzkN0c+2QOTCLdRJolz3D4jjtdihjFG5HF9w34JDYjJHoDnjE+ gS1gr1o0ZSeQMkCIIrwqyCzTp8TrESDl0qZC2s0cKWtvr+YX6ZWo3YH0+fUh1YHVcua9Uzjq6gYc SGWhvsqwUmlK0cNX9AKrlitBxNqq9gZinsq3dPXeUcrcud5BrHK4cgt3Rax8KmIzE9RucwlsU2EL xP3F1kjH5LL8SpTxznyuxK5B6Iqp8KNl1aKxdeQFZhM5zzPb+RgmkDZeDuac19VSPG1T9z0V4851 ABtX3uZr4+sxKMderkd1A/5uuvIniKvTcX+/Qfyy8A38B5oAuGg3lTBKAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNy ZWF0ZQAyMDIyLTAxLTMxVDE2OjU5OjA2KzAwOjAw26RpJgAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAy Mi0wMS0zMVQxNjo1OTowNiswMDowMKr50ZoAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Nina Simone's _Little Girl Blue_: "You'll Never Walk Alone" Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 18:00:11 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83h79j97kf.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 31 Jan 2022 18:46:40 +0200") Message-ID: <87iltzzvqc.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > They are different commands with evidently different goals, so > making them new commands sounds appropriate to me. If the intent is > not to repurpose what-cursor-position, then what exactl [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: rms@gnu.org, mattiase@acm.org, rpluim@gmail.com, Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de, juri@linkov.net, 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: > They are different commands with evidently different goals, so > making them new commands sounds appropriate to me. If the intent is > not to repurpose what-cursor-position, then what exactly is the intent? The intent is to have something that's useful for a larger portion of the users on `C-x ='? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 31 12:41:13 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jan 2022 17:41:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40657 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nEafx-0001Ug-K9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 12:41:13 -0500 Received: from mail213c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.10.223]:46766 helo=mail194c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nEafu-0001UJ-7j for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 12:41:11 -0500 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1643650863; bh=xwofsKsAzZ5+w1x+k7gGn0Ts7zFjA3J67aWoOLQc9GA=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=EpqVu4lLQQZkwJG5t42XVQC1p/MI+ZcTGXdw5GFWjSsvZkjCnnP2sricXW1pwgMpM H8OkT9kwkV4O99W1UsS08vJaai0Szd02QiN8A6X8nA5YP8Q9M28sh8TS3s+V/TDL6s 1GXsdRp88+D0kGPedsSz5gFdD453Kj/9OQJKNSk0= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from smtpclient.apple (c188-150-171-71.bredband.tele2.se [188.150.171.71]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail194c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 20VHexGY002981; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 17:41:01 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: bug#24902: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <87a6fdcjiy.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 18:40:58 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <61F1561A020000A1000472CB@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <87v8y5mblo.fsf@gnus.org> <867dal9k8g.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83ee4sc4f0.fsf@gnu.org> <87o83ud30u.fsf@gnus.org> <83leyybnee.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6fdcjiy.fsf@gnus.org> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A742F22.61F81F2E.0087, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-Origin-Country: SE X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: 24902@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , Juri Linkov , Robert Pluim , Ulrich Windl X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) 30 jan. 2022 kl. 16.47 skrev Lars Ingebrigtsen : > What I see attractive about splitting this up into two commands is = that > there's more information about positions and characters that would be > useful, I think. =20 > For instance, when I'm wondering about a character > it's because it's odd to me somehow, so knowing the name and the > general-category of the character (in addition to the Unicode char > number) is what I'd like to know. Being a two-letter code, the general category could certainly fit into = the current (revised) format. While you and I would find it useful, we = are ones who know our Zp from our Cf; the typical user may find those = codes mysterious. But perhaps that is not automatically a usability = problem? Otherwise, for more exact inspection of the character at point we have = describe-char, or `C-u C-x =3D`. (Most people seem to agree that its = layout could be improved but that's a different matter.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 31 12:45:27 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jan 2022 17:45:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40679 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nEak3-00024l-GD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 12:45:27 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:48738) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nEak1-0001uz-0Z for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 12:45:26 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=eFLHauineeyLCCGE4/7UpDA/PQbWu5736JBuCm3lrsI=; b=nws8CinKtrWgc9r/iPdcxf8tiz 8TrEKJoL8UhKh2sCkEQLI9oSIsMymCvsB4U9JtOw+OprqI6k9kfA8eVHs6iyx0LsTb3qGO/V2ljhs 2DUeCQkyaNkuSg/BiZflxemZo86MivUAovHhk2YLvffsvYlN6OpXxKWGfxv0jSkE984A=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=giant) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nEajr-00059F-2o; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 18:45:17 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Subject: Re: bug#24902: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <61F1561A020000A1000472CB@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <87v8y5mblo.fsf@gnus.org> <867dal9k8g.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83ee4sc4f0.fsf@gnu.org> <87o83ud30u.fsf@gnus.org> <83leyybnee.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6fdcjiy.fsf@gnus.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAADFBMVEWjXku9nXBHMin/ //+D7RpeAAAAAWJLR0QDEQxM8gAAAAd0SU1FB+YBHxEsODUEJjEAAAGVSURBVCjPTdLBitswEAbg XyYG1SdviZce3ZxkPYVSNhBySoLHh731tvgplGUNaU+lpHtWDAV5nrIju9AKDP40o5HGFvBvKFge LwrwSI8ZY43M54IaJlyXpFXhYaO8OLgqxaxkq+0ObbUTBKiHXRtV++BSmkPGrxXRDMQirPKjK2Gv Mq/DbTi5VCArCr7kAz0JdH3Yx+2nza0FDFSzuew+f39L+wBE6mTef+gaNrtI0bL/mY5qilB130rL 3q1gtMu7+3BgLwc1HwTDdm91KnDV5jx8iRyVHKdxE+VdiCFFcpqoasPv2khzRA1RG+q0yFYJFAx7 s0TyUyh4DDB0jO32VB84SqTKuFPHaYE/Pj+qs4AFuupu+jzZGSV1b7q7CyLsiujdPE4Lfili8zEu YH5mRoK00Cf4uJEZNH3cS5ts+e5gDlPPHASY8bXtA0vWXgpMDdm0/mmG9Zxg3AxehhbEF7/Ap015 4PEv5LPeszkif8r7tXKi25zm1+l26EpHuRYVSiDH2s79QEJFUSeMnGoAVwT8P/4AnYavT/ZNEj4A AAAldEVYdGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjItMDEtMzFUMTc6NDQ6NTYrMDA6MDB6ouq3AAAAJXRFWHRk YXRlOm1vZGlmeQAyMDIyLTAxLTMxVDE3OjQ0OjU2KzAwOjAwC/9SCwAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: Kid Creole & The Coconuts's _Tropical Gangsters_: "Annie, I'm Not Your Daddy" Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 18:45:14 +0100 In-Reply-To: ("Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd=22's?= message of "Mon, 31 Jan 2022 18:40:58 +0100") Message-ID: <87pmo7x0id.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Mattias EngdegÃ¥rd writes: > Being a two-letter code, the general category could certainly fit into > the current (revised) format. While you and I would find it useful, we > are ones who know our Zp from our Cf; the typical us [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: 24902@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , Juri Linkov , Robert Pluim , Ulrich Windl X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd writes: > Being a two-letter code, the general category could certainly fit into > the current (revised) format. While you and I would find it useful, we > are ones who know our Zp from our Cf; the typical user may find those > codes mysterious. But perhaps that is not automatically a usability > problem? The category is typicall "Letter, Uppercase" etc. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 31 13:01:51 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jan 2022 18:01:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40711 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nEazq-0004Os-KJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 13:01:50 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57208) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nEazo-0004Od-QS for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 13:01:45 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=52208 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nEazT-0008BK-VX; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 13:01:37 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=UywfTlf3sKm+MvDFs0zCfs5DWqkjDJ4elqhTqL6zb+Q=; b=e+92h9b4eyPc QdkN/0OOcn2rmsJFDrl1cGBUvdz9Q+Iqb0SRbMjjaU9IgFGbkO/YmyM++H7WclJ5sWvMWmSq9X5Pa 7ZrC9oy67xfSQC3uVzgZcixag8hmuvMDv6ZQdiG3pMT+Qg3S9ulcRNcafClYkc4rgJ+2m7YiuJLeE m2jrdhm3yeVg1L66AmSyp+lIC8+2DeWlS9NWtH0nfagIuc+4dSE5HrXszhKV/UCbSAYhbwIMjAgxh twK2pzPLFq0Skq9zZ/Ah6P5mdO6+2nSm3RichV+oaI2dyn1bbs2tpVwKEc0vIKBoBzchmIie2H2Rz 04c0AknlvuXwPQhEcJaunw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2176 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nEazA-0005lk-65; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 13:01:08 -0500 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 20:00:59 +0200 Message-Id: <83ee4n944k.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87iltzzvqc.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Mon, 31 Jan 2022 18:00:11 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#24902: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <61F1561A020000A1000472CB@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <87v8y5mblo.fsf@gnus.org> <867dal9k8g.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83ee4sc4f0.fsf@gnu.org> <87o83ud30u.fsf@gnus.org> <83leyybnee.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6fdcjiy.fsf@gnus.org> <83mtjd9nnk.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkzs2aez.fsf@gnus.org> <83h79j97kf.fsf@gnu.org> <87iltzzvqc.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: rms@gnu.org, mattiase@acm.org, rpluim@gmail.com, Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de, juri@linkov.net, 24902@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: rms@gnu.org, mattiase@acm.org, rpluim@gmail.com, > Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de, juri@linkov.net, > 24902@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 18:00:11 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > They are different commands with evidently different goals, so > > making them new commands sounds appropriate to me. If the intent is > > not to repurpose what-cursor-position, then what exactly is the intent? > > The intent is to have something that's useful for a larger portion of > the users on `C-x ='? To me, this means you want new and different commands. But I won't argue. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 31 13:16:09 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jan 2022 18:16:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40720 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nEbDl-0004nd-AN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 13:16:09 -0500 Received: from mail1471c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.14.71]:46120 helo=mail102c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nEbDg-0004mj-Sd for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 13:16:07 -0500 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1643652957; bh=L3TNXbylGiM99/FqR3G2khl/xRAmz8V9X3ZbhTvf8bY=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=QEsNPZfWAJnhlsDuFEVX8zJLgD356hQyV7bvOy38GpEWX4YBtrM+2RRnSUCbgodiH d2wMqtef1XtP4naVTYFUTBCzhJu1EwRwb3TkxA9YDZ413EBwjvR5EK0qyNWtCI4eET AZVuXfF4aJHIocYa0wQrlozo7r+cOVoWipkmOTR0= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from smtpclient.apple (c188-150-171-71.bredband.tele2.se [188.150.171.71]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail102c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 20VIFsHr018576; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 18:15:56 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: bug#24902: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <87pmo7x0id.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 19:15:54 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <611C752A-1278-465D-8F55-505DB602DB22@acm.org> References: <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <61F1561A020000A1000472CB@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <87v8y5mblo.fsf@gnus.org> <867dal9k8g.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83ee4sc4f0.fsf@gnu.org> <87o83ud30u.fsf@gnus.org> <83leyybnee.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6fdcjiy.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmo7x0id.fsf@gnus.org> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A742F1C.61F8275D.0070, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-Origin-Country: SE X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: 24902@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , Juri Linkov , Robert Pluim , Ulrich Windl X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) 31 jan. 2022 kl. 18.45 skrev Lars Ingebrigtsen : > The category is typicall "Letter, Uppercase" etc. If that is what you're after then it's probably too verbose for the echo = area in a combined `C-x =3D`. I'd be happy with U+0023 NUMBER SIGN [Po] point=3D22401/47662 col=3D0 but perhaps the abbreviations are overly technical, at least until we = add them to the regexp engine. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 31 13:31:12 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jan 2022 18:31:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40746 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nEbSK-0005G7-FI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 13:31:12 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:49002) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nEbSI-0005Fp-9n for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 13:31:11 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=E4Rr/CiVphcxMYGccXj2kFOvySAcGNPJVDkJrQ1G9R0=; b=HGKNufYeHn+w/60uV7FN36Ah2L /6dzdibkvPNf6gniOap4ptHUwsa8kq4dc0qUkIkRNowSAB1GCr2resMf9XwL38mD3Ao3ahlOHcTZV BsGUfrlwwxmyUBhqRGiudLgDp4BMwMEUULnyw/FXTLmpIfYBDkxvNTDb6k9vfyWmJnUA=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=giant) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nEbS8-0005UF-3v; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 19:31:02 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Subject: Re: bug#24902: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <61F1561A020000A1000472CB@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <87v8y5mblo.fsf@gnus.org> <867dal9k8g.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83ee4sc4f0.fsf@gnu.org> <87o83ud30u.fsf@gnus.org> <83leyybnee.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6fdcjiy.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmo7x0id.fsf@gnus.org> <611C752A-1278-465D-8F55-505DB602DB22@acm.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAADFBMVEWjXku9nXBHMin/ //+D7RpeAAAAAWJLR0QDEQxM8gAAAAd0SU1FB+YBHxEsODUEJjEAAAGVSURBVCjPTdLBitswEAbg XyYG1SdviZce3ZxkPYVSNhBySoLHh731tvgplGUNaU+lpHtWDAV5nrIju9AKDP40o5HGFvBvKFge LwrwSI8ZY43M54IaJlyXpFXhYaO8OLgqxaxkq+0ObbUTBKiHXRtV++BSmkPGrxXRDMQirPKjK2Gv Mq/DbTi5VCArCr7kAz0JdH3Yx+2nza0FDFSzuew+f39L+wBE6mTef+gaNrtI0bL/mY5qilB130rL 3q1gtMu7+3BgLwc1HwTDdm91KnDV5jx8iRyVHKdxE+VdiCFFcpqoasPv2khzRA1RG+q0yFYJFAx7 s0TyUyh4DDB0jO32VB84SqTKuFPHaYE/Pj+qs4AFuupu+jzZGSV1b7q7CyLsiujdPE4Lfili8zEu YH5mRoK00Cf4uJEZNH3cS5ts+e5gDlPPHASY8bXtA0vWXgpMDdm0/mmG9Zxg3AxehhbEF7/Ap015 4PEv5LPeszkif8r7tXKi25zm1+l26EpHuRYVSiDH2s79QEJFUSeMnGoAVwT8P/4AnYavT/ZNEj4A AAAldEVYdGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjItMDEtMzFUMTc6NDQ6NTYrMDA6MDB6ouq3AAAAJXRFWHRk YXRlOm1vZGlmeQAyMDIyLTAxLTMxVDE3OjQ0OjU2KzAwOjAwC/9SCwAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: Kid Creole & The Coconuts's _Tropical Gangsters_: "I'm Corrupt" Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 19:30:59 +0100 In-Reply-To: <611C752A-1278-465D-8F55-505DB602DB22@acm.org> ("Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd=22's?= message of "Mon, 31 Jan 2022 19:15:54 +0100") Message-ID: <87leyvwye4.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Mattias EngdegÃ¥rd writes: >> The category is typicall "Letter, Uppercase" etc. > > If that is what you're after then it's probably too verbose for the > echo area in a combined `C-x =`. > I'd be happy with > > U+0023 NUMBER SI [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: 24902@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , Juri Linkov , Robert Pluim , Ulrich Windl X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd writes: >> The category is typicall "Letter, Uppercase" etc. > > If that is what you're after then it's probably too verbose for the > echo area in a combined `C-x =3D`. > I'd be happy with > > U+0023 NUMBER SIGN [Po] point=3D22401/47662 col=3D0 > > but perhaps the abbreviations are overly technical, at least until we > add them to the regexp engine. I don't think it makes sense to add the category to the combined command. I was talking about if we separated them. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 01 00:07:06 2022 Received: (at 24902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Feb 2022 05:07:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41485 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nElNi-0004m3-M5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2022 00:07:06 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:46872) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nElNh-0004la-9A for 24902@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2022 00:07:05 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=35388 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nElNa-00046N-6I; Tue, 01 Feb 2022 00:06:58 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=3skVThn2nP2fHmVcVn6wIKaM5zugsf8AyDvL6EypLoE=; b=Cfsw6wsDOMtY C1NEzgzKET4Fxboa13jCtbOTboza5L4c1exTxYq/Rq1VVKqGx/fMi+L2qZguw9QhsGy3mtaFqsi0i DXUSKRCWrxH0mmgnlCQVUR0qIS4OEdWvBug/ONgbA2uewdxGD60MKUcslG3nJ5/J0DOoIVJA4Kqsw GYZ0/BXVuR6GDULQiOx40FywxjkqVreye5XgAZkF0JHdk2fGHzISCB6q/xz9LM2eY9MXwpggWCKai 17qnuT9t2bcirRr7Tc0ZGQ8g/y0Cr33fLq2ehbTYDku0o47Z5P2c5Sj6vR4WdKFT4B251UzgfyCrY xOuv7KEenh444+YAPukCEA==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nElNX-0004SI-0D; Tue, 01 Feb 2022 00:06:56 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87bkzs2aez.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Mon, 31 Jan 2022 16:27:00 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#24902: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode References: <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> <4CEFB383-E7C8-4AA8-9B43-6267E5523DC3@acm.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87lez2tzfz.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6fihaku.fsf@gmail.com> <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <61F1561A020000A1000472CB@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <87v8y5mblo.fsf@gnus.org> <867dal9k8g.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83ee4sc4f0.fsf@gnu.org> <87o83ud30u.fsf@gnus.org> <83leyybnee.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6fdcjiy.fsf@gnus.org> <83mtjd9nnk.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkzs2aez.fsf@gnus.org> Message-Id: Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2022 00:06:55 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24902 Cc: mattiase@acm.org, rpluim@gmail.com, Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de, juri@linkov.net, 24902@debbugs.gnu.org, eliz@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] If "splitting" C-x = means what I think it means, it implies using two key sequences instead of one. That would be a significant cost. Would this change offer any practical benefit? > They are different commands with evidently different goals, so > making them new commands sounds appropriate to me. That is an improvement in conceptual neatness, but I don't think it is worth the practical price of two keys where one key now serves. > The intent is to have something that's useful for a larger portion of > the users on `C-x ='? That could be an improvement, depending. What, concretely, would that command do? -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Fri Jun 20 19:56:17 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2022 12:24:03 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator