From unknown Fri Jun 20 18:15:50 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24897: 24.5; doc for `M' in Dired Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2016 18:53:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 24897 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 24897@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.147854475314411 (code B ref -1); Mon, 07 Nov 2016 18:53:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Nov 2016 18:52:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48672 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3p20-0003kM-Tp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 13:52:33 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:51644) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3p1z-0003kB-Ox for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 13:52:32 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3p1t-0004v7-IT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 13:52:26 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:44979) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3p1t-0004v1-FC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 13:52:25 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42606) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3p1s-0003cv-8j for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 13:52:25 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3p1n-0004tc-C6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 13:52:24 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:18134) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3p1n-0004tS-1z for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 13:52:19 -0500 Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id uA7IqHRT005631 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 7 Nov 2016 18:52:17 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id uA7IqHaG032247 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 7 Nov 2016 18:52:17 GMT Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id uA7IqFDr011429 for ; Mon, 7 Nov 2016 18:52:16 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2016 10:52:13 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) This: http://emacs.stackexchange.com/q/28504/105, asks how to make files read-only using Dired. Besides using wdired, the obvious answer is to use `M'. However, in answering that, it becomes clear that the questioner does not know the UNIX command `chmod', and might not know about file and directory permissions. S?he might not even have what it takes locally to use `M-x man', to find out. And the doc for `M' - both the doc string and the Emacs manual, does not really explain `chmod' or what kind of input a user can type to the prompt from `M'. I think it would be helpful, for at least some users, to add some more explanation. In particular, it could explain about u, g, o, and a, and about the permissions fields rwx and their values. In GNU Emacs 24.5.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2015-04-11 on LEG570 Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --prefix=3D/c/usr --host=3Di686-pc-mingw32' From unknown Fri Jun 20 18:15:50 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24897: 24.5; doc for `M' in Dired Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2016 19:23:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24897 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 24897@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 24897-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24897.147854654117207 (code B ref 24897); Mon, 07 Nov 2016 19:23:01 +0000 Received: (at 24897) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Nov 2016 19:22:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48682 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3pUr-0004TT-M3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 14:22:21 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:59847) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3pUp-0004T4-H1 for 24897@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 14:22:19 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3pUh-0004KT-8l for 24897@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 14:22:14 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:41225) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3pUh-0004KA-5M; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 14:22:11 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2382 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1c3pUg-0007Rr-HN; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 14:22:10 -0500 Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2016 21:22:42 +0200 Message-Id: <83shr3gkn1.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: (message from Drew Adams on Mon, 7 Nov 2016 10:52:13 -0800 (PST)) References: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -7.9 (-------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -7.9 (-------) > Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2016 10:52:13 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > > This: http://emacs.stackexchange.com/q/28504/105, asks how to make files > read-only using Dired. Besides using wdired, the obvious answer is to > use `M'. > > However, in answering that, it becomes clear that the questioner does > not know the UNIX command `chmod', and might not know about file and > directory permissions. Since the original question was about "making the file read-only", I'm guessing the OP is on Windows, and if that is so, explaining the Unix-style permission bits won't help a bit. From unknown Fri Jun 20 18:15:50 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24897: 24.5; doc for `M' in Dired Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2016 19:30:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24897 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Cc: 24897@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 24897-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24897.147854694317863 (code B ref 24897); Mon, 07 Nov 2016 19:30:02 +0000 Received: (at 24897) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Nov 2016 19:29:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48686 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3pbL-0004e3-Co for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 14:29:03 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:33484) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3pbJ-0004dX-14 for 24897@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 14:29:01 -0500 Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id uA7JSsZk024306 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 7 Nov 2016 19:28:54 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id uA7JSrau005497 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 7 Nov 2016 19:28:54 GMT Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id uA7JSr4n001112; Mon, 7 Nov 2016 19:28:53 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <106ca6bc-ecf5-439f-853b-63331a41d4b8@default> Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2016 11:28:52 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <> <<83shr3gkn1.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83shr3gkn1.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-Spam-Score: -7.8 (-------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -7.8 (-------) > Since the original question was about "making the file read-only", > I'm guessing the OP is on Windows, That the user might be on Windows is a good guess. Or s?he could just be a beginner wrt UNIX (or GNU/Linux). > and if that is so, explaining the > Unix-style permission bits won't help a bit. True enough for r and x, but not for w. It is reasonable for a user on Windows to use `M' to make files read-only or writable. A little bit more help from the doc for such users could help, I think. From unknown Fri Jun 20 18:15:50 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24897: 24.5; doc for `M' in Dired Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2016 19:50:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24897 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 24897@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 24897-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24897.147854819719953 (code B ref 24897); Mon, 07 Nov 2016 19:50:02 +0000 Received: (at 24897) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Nov 2016 19:49:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48699 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3pvZ-0005Bl-LX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 14:49:57 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39078) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3pvX-0005BY-VL for 24897@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 14:49:56 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3pvP-0003p9-12 for 24897@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 14:49:50 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:41563) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3pvO-0003p5-UP; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 14:49:46 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2416 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1c3pvM-0005Y0-95; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 14:49:46 -0500 Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2016 21:50:04 +0200 Message-Id: <83oa1rgjdf.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <106ca6bc-ecf5-439f-853b-63331a41d4b8@default> (message from Drew Adams on Mon, 7 Nov 2016 11:28:52 -0800 (PST)) References: <> <<83shr3gkn1.fsf@gnu.org>> <106ca6bc-ecf5-439f-853b-63331a41d4b8@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -7.9 (-------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -7.9 (-------) > Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2016 11:28:52 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 24897@debbugs.gnu.org > > > and if that is so, explaining the > > Unix-style permission bits won't help a bit. > > True enough for r and x, but not for w. It is reasonable for a user > on Windows to use `M' to make files read-only or writable. But there's no "write" bit on Windows, at least not on the level on which the 'M' command in Dired works on Windows. So you cannot really explain the w bit, either. You need a completely separate description for Windows users. From unknown Fri Jun 20 18:15:50 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24897: 24.5; doc for `M' in Dired Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2016 20:40:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24897 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Cc: 24897@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 24897-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24897.147855116224811 (code B ref 24897); Mon, 07 Nov 2016 20:40:02 +0000 Received: (at 24897) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Nov 2016 20:39:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48733 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3qhO-0006S6-Ba for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 15:39:22 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:35519) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3qhN-0006Ru-6S for 24897@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 15:39:21 -0500 Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id uA7KdDiZ022386 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 7 Nov 2016 20:39:14 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id uA7KdD1k018010 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 7 Nov 2016 20:39:13 GMT Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id uA7KdCxb001229; Mon, 7 Nov 2016 20:39:13 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <0a992327-fdb6-4c5a-8d97-63bb697fa56f@default> Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2016 12:39:11 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <<>> <<<83shr3gkn1.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<106ca6bc-ecf5-439f-853b-63331a41d4b8@default>> <<83oa1rgjdf.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83oa1rgjdf.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-Spam-Score: -7.8 (-------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -7.8 (-------) > But there's no "write" bit on Windows, at least not on the level on > which the 'M' command in Dired works on Windows. So you cannot > really explain the w bit, either. >=20 > You need a completely separate description for Windows users. I don't suggest that we "explain the w bit", for Windows users. My suggestion is to: 1. State that `chmod' does not apply, in general, to MS Windows. (If you want to say why - no such bits etc., fine, but that's not really needed, IMO.) 2. State that you can use `chmod' to make a file writable or read-only. And say how to do so. From unknown Fri Jun 20 18:15:50 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24897: 24.5; doc for `M' in Dired References: In-Reply-To: Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 14:44:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24897 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 24897@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 24897-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24897.157080502217545 (code B ref 24897); Fri, 11 Oct 2019 14:44:02 +0000 Received: (at 24897) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Oct 2019 14:43:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60130 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iIw8s-0004Yt-4U for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 10:43:42 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f195.google.com ([209.85.215.195]:35573) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iIw8q-0004YV-Sl for 24897@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 10:43:41 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f195.google.com with SMTP id p30so5933655pgl.2 for <24897@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 07:43:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=LZOQsCsswgp/HGbt/golzquEObGPaWmGGCZRuWZITd8=; b=JC7PY0XqLhFG1eChRjxLBXDsKl/YryqpSKc9HrMKhoMWIAy9M0wTWQckoOFLcHePvz QdlHF1Vam6jXZh22v1bKpnXv+Z2GG0vnhrQi/S1eS6KwtBqY0OpHu6VKmXSDmqJ2RIHq 5QKlBDgLZhLVNtg8UlsYOBAPaC6ylt6KTLvneAYmArOdVWVcUQpcJFaFhOdq5JRe8BRt PqMUAQ8J58cbGYdMUjCRswS5jNOyoy7d63WBkNfT6haNEcgOLx9FRXjOFwao3ot7j0RP bco5TLWf0vAED0afBzpKkd1873rKm37KgW1Or+8yndQce6dDGtKG7Vo38X9MAYo+uVdv exWg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAW3CKuSFioGDC0W5+07IJG66TKXyeOfMYgftkb91NvJwNmT5yIX rekftKLDwGl0XPZICUbEO/of0AMad0sTT+RGOmk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyQSmtUwMQYEH+nOg8PNn7k7cOVtBChlzOuwyF3rN/62F4i4dF1Ec4+VPYSfjR1VbMiqmwt+yNMQUdc3IfirDo= X-Received: by 2002:a63:1c03:: with SMTP id c3mr16626641pgc.198.1570805015021; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 07:43:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stefan Kangas Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 16:43:23 +0200 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="000000000000eea8fc0594a38ad4" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) --000000000000eea8fc0594a38ad4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" tags 24897 + patch quit Drew Adams writes: >> But there's no "write" bit on Windows, at least not on the level on >> which the 'M' command in Dired works on Windows. So you cannot >> really explain the w bit, either. >> >> You need a completely separate description for Windows users. > > I don't suggest that we "explain the w bit", for Windows users. > > My suggestion is to: > > 1. State that `chmod' does not apply, in general, to MS Windows. > (If you want to say why - no such bits etc., fine, but that's > not really needed, IMO.) > 2. State that you can use `chmod' to make a file writable or > read-only. And say how to do so. How about the attached patch? Best regards, Stefan Kangas --000000000000eea8fc0594a38ad4 Content-Type: text/x-patch; charset="US-ASCII"; name="0001-lisp-dired-aux.el-dired-do-chmod-Doc-fix.-Bug-24897.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-lisp-dired-aux.el-dired-do-chmod-Doc-fix.-Bug-24897.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: X-Attachment-Id: f_k1m8qomh0 RnJvbSBiNDM5ZWNjNzBiN2YxM2YyNTU5MjgxMzE2OTI0MjUzNDkyZjUyYjJkIE1vbiBTZXAgMTcg MDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBTdGVmYW4gS2FuZ2FzIDxzdGVmYW5rYW5nYXNAZ21haWwuY29t PgpEYXRlOiBGcmksIDExIE9jdCAyMDE5IDE2OjM3OjQ0ICswMjAwClN1YmplY3Q6IFtQQVRDSF0g KiBsaXNwL2RpcmVkLWF1eC5lbCAoZGlyZWQtZG8tY2htb2QpOiBEb2MgZml4LiAgKEJ1ZyMyNDg5 NykKCi0tLQogbGlzcC9kaXJlZC1hdXguZWwgfCA3ICsrKysrKy0KIDEgZmlsZSBjaGFuZ2VkLCA2 IGluc2VydGlvbnMoKyksIDEgZGVsZXRpb24oLSkKCmRpZmYgLS1naXQgYS9saXNwL2RpcmVkLWF1 eC5lbCBiL2xpc3AvZGlyZWQtYXV4LmVsCmluZGV4IGJmYzM3YzVjZGUuLmJhN2Q4MGNiMGUgMTAw NjQ0Ci0tLSBhL2xpc3AvZGlyZWQtYXV4LmVsCisrKyBiL2xpc3AvZGlyZWQtYXV4LmVsCkBAIC0z NjcsNyArMzY3LDEyIEBAIGRpcmVkLWRvLWNobW9kCiAgICJDaGFuZ2UgdGhlIG1vZGUgb2YgdGhl IG1hcmtlZCAob3IgbmV4dCBBUkcpIGZpbGVzLgogU3ltYm9saWMgbW9kZXMgbGlrZSBgZyt3JyBh cmUgYWxsb3dlZC4KIFR5cGUgTS1uIHRvIHB1bGwgdGhlIGZpbGUgYXR0cmlidXRlcyBvZiB0aGUg ZmlsZSBhdCBwb2ludAotaW50byB0aGUgbWluaWJ1ZmZlci4iCitpbnRvIHRoZSBtaW5pYnVmZmVy LgorCitTZWUgdGhlIG1hbiBwYWdlIGZvciBcImNobW9kXCIgZm9yIG1vcmUgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24g b24gZmlsZSBtb2RlCitiaXRzLCB1c2luZyB0aGUgY29tbWFuZCBcXFttYW5dIGluIEVtYWNzLgor CitUaGlzIGNvbW1hbmQgaXMgZ2VuZXJhbGx5IG5vdCByZWxldmFudCBvbiBNUy1XaW5kb3dzLiIK ICAgKGludGVyYWN0aXZlICJQIikKICAgKGxldCogKChmaWxlcyAoZGlyZWQtZ2V0LW1hcmtlZC1m aWxlcyB0IGFyZyBuaWwgbmlsIHQpKQogCSA7OyBUaGUgc291cmNlIG9mIGRlZmF1bHQgZmlsZSBh dHRyaWJ1dGVzIGlzIHRoZSBmaWxlIGF0IHBvaW50LgotLSAKMi4yMC4xCgo= --000000000000eea8fc0594a38ad4-- From unknown Fri Jun 20 18:15:50 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24897: 24.5; doc for `M' in Dired Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 14:52:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24897 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Stefan Kangas Cc: 24897@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com Received: via spool by 24897-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24897.157080551326574 (code B ref 24897); Fri, 11 Oct 2019 14:52:02 +0000 Received: (at 24897) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Oct 2019 14:51:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60143 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iIwGm-0006uW-4B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 10:51:53 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41104) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iIwGk-0006uD-UI for 24897@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 10:51:51 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:44707) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iIwGe-0007OG-8Y; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 10:51:44 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4331 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1iIwGd-0002Gc-J5; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 10:51:44 -0400 Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 17:51:31 +0300 Message-Id: <83ftjzpc7g.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Kangas on Fri, 11 Oct 2019 16:43:23 +0200) References: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 16:43:23 +0200 > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 24897@debbugs.gnu.org > > +See the man page for \"chmod\" for more information on file mode > +bits, using the command \\[man] in Emacs. On GNU/Linux, 'chmod' is documented in the Coreutils Info manual, and the GNU Coding Standards generally prefer Info to man pages. So I'd suggest to point to the Coreutils manual first, and to the man page only as fallback. > +This command is generally not relevant on MS-Windows." This is too extreme. The correct statement is this: Note that on MS-Windows this command can only set or reset the `w' (write) bit, but cannot change any other bits. From unknown Fri Jun 20 18:15:50 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24897: 24.5; doc for `M' in Dired Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 14:57:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24897 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: stefan@marxist.se Cc: 24897@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 24897-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24897.157080578427194 (code B ref 24897); Fri, 11 Oct 2019 14:57:01 +0000 Received: (at 24897) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Oct 2019 14:56:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60149 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iIwL9-00074W-I2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 10:56:23 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42654) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iIwL8-00074C-Md for 24897@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 10:56:22 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:44782) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iIwL3-0001pw-Cg; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 10:56:17 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4611 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1iIwL2-0002tx-2l; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 10:56:16 -0400 Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 17:56:05 +0300 Message-Id: <83d0f3pbzu.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <83ftjzpc7g.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Fri, 11 Oct 2019 17:51:31 +0300) References: <83ftjzpc7g.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 17:51:31 +0300 > From: Eli Zaretskii > Cc: 24897@debbugs.gnu.org > > Note that on MS-Windows this command can only set or reset > the `w' (write) bit, but cannot change any other bits. Actually, here's a more useful text: Note that on MS-Windows only the `w' (write) bit is meaningful: resetting it makes the file read-only. Changing any other bit has no effect on MS-Windows. From unknown Fri Jun 20 18:15:50 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24897: 24.5; doc for `M' in Dired Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 15:43:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24897 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Stefan Kangas Cc: 24897@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 24897-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24897.15708085521053 (code B ref 24897); Fri, 11 Oct 2019 15:43:02 +0000 Received: (at 24897) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Oct 2019 15:42:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60178 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iIx3o-0000Gv-EN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 11:42:32 -0400 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:45540) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iIx3m-0000Gc-Js for 24897@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 11:42:31 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x9BFNfxi096791; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 15:42:24 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2019-08-05; bh=dWFUvRkf7fIfdjoZ4DbC0skLLd/bUjESTy+7bKtbJr0=; b=floLR+nLy2/lqc8m5LlrtEATprfgONnTGkr/udm+0R4nXJTQvJzmMm75H6S9CJR+xM+T TuUHuS712blPI8NUg0FV/y+OH1kdLunwvJIkWKFgQSAY4jDsG909mL3bHglje2kfjvX9 hPdnAX95HFFxTL/X4ZTCepAhCVABAEI9ulCjDdk5So9tth5BEIpVe2TajUqPod7CG6/a eT46NSsNZvAl6tRKSxDfgjON+kWSxAXwdmWDl6XfAzlM0JeJBs1fwXxgNiED5AY5RX6p +rtTu+K6at+nmvvx5CKvTMr+RGPdgcx0jbcR5ZwQO+ptfVGCnQj0lbCEWVymk9BWqbOd uw== Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2vejkv2jkq-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 11 Oct 2019 15:42:24 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x9BFOCiV071431; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 15:42:24 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2vjrycdugg-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 11 Oct 2019 15:42:24 +0000 Received: from abhmp0011.oracle.com (abhmp0011.oracle.com [141.146.116.17]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id x9BFgMMK007081; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 15:42:22 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 08:42:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams References: In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4900.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9406 signatures=668684 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-1910110143 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9406 signatures=668684 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-1910110143 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > I don't suggest that we "explain the w bit", for Windows users. > > > > My suggestion is to: > > > > 1. State that `chmod' does not apply, in general, to MS Windows. > > (If you want to say why - no such bits etc., fine, but that's > > not really needed, IMO.) > > 2. State that you can use `chmod' to make a file writable or > > read-only. And say how to do so. >=20 > How about the attached patch? Thanks for looking at this enhancement request. But, sorry, that's not it at all. 1. It's definitely not the case that "This command is generally not relevant on MS-Windows." `M' _is_ relevant for MS Windows. I use it all the time - every day. What's the case is that on Windows you can't distinguish the different parts of the permissions string: you can only change them for all users at once. But you can certainly change, for all users, from read-only to writable, etc. Admittedly, the text from me that you quote above can give the impression that `M' is not relevant for MS Windows. But reading all of the report makes clear that it is very relevant. For example: It is reasonable for a user on Windows to use `M' to make files read-only or writable. 2. The main point of the request is to ask that the doc for `M' say something about the permissions, that it _not_ just point to a `man' page (which typically won't be available for MS Windows users anyway). It's good for the doc to _also_ mention the `chmod' command and its `man' page, but this bug report asks that the `M' doc itself provide at least a minimum of help about this - the possible user inputs and their effects. The doc currently says, e.g., "Symbolic modes like `g+w' are allowed." But that means nothing by itself. This is the point of the bug report - what it says at the outset: [The user might] not know the UNIX command `chmod', and might not know about file and directory permissions. S?he might not even have what it takes locally to use `M-x man', to find out. And the doc for `M' - both the doc string and the Emacs manual, does not really explain `chmod' or what kind of input a user can type to the prompt from `M'. I think it would be helpful, for at least some users, to add some more explanation. In particular, it could explain about u, g, o, and a, and about the permissions fields rwx and their values. From unknown Fri Jun 20 18:15:50 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24897: 24.5; doc for `M' in Dired Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 15:46:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24897 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Eli Zaretskii , stefan@marxist.se Cc: 24897@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 24897-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24897.15708087441510 (code B ref 24897); Fri, 11 Oct 2019 15:46:01 +0000 Received: (at 24897) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Oct 2019 15:45:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60183 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iIx6u-0000OH-3I for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 11:45:44 -0400 Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:53928) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iIx6q-0000Nz-QK for 24897@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 11:45:41 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x9BFifMV101310; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 15:45:35 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2019-08-05; bh=WelEySt9ENrvxCVk/x+Gxz81QlmoEhSMe7gjMBTW2lg=; b=Ux8BsEZnAzoVeCJLPR8d9tZmMIecc1Lt099ghw8LrJ5rcmGCxnWigrpyPkHu0G3rktUk NCeUjLo74FpAV1+oQa5F/0UroSvCzrELzd5cC1Zu5w8aJZcXB6J98q9HQiIKTKyS6SWY 4BkAx5BPKaoLvU/32HWzIcmk28BJSzV7Yx1LpMS05RwrJwNGOFL2XnoNcbK/X7IGCMB3 WfF0JXRiXF62b/q+NqIM2GBhpf9dck5EhcuATucLLMPoTIWS6ECBoX5mkA47wuhOdwv7 9HnwTHp6WduJKXM7aD6VS8lwE7nL7W8MTRtTwVphvlHXBp56sQxlvJNdPjdtz3e0isTB 1g== Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2vekts2ab8-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 11 Oct 2019 15:45:35 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x9BFhAZe129975; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 15:45:34 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2vjryce0tc-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 11 Oct 2019 15:45:34 +0000 Received: from abhmp0011.oracle.com (abhmp0011.oracle.com [141.146.116.17]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id x9BFjX5e010575; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 15:45:34 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 08:45:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams References: <> <<83ftjzpc7g.fsf@gnu.org>> <<83d0f3pbzu.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83d0f3pbzu.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4900.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9406 signatures=668684 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=855 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-1910110144 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9406 signatures=668684 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=953 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-1910110144 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > Note that on MS-Windows this command can only set or reset > > the `w' (write) bit, but cannot change any other bits. >=20 > Actually, here's a more useful text: >=20 > Note that on MS-Windows only the `w' (write) bit is meaningful: > resetting it makes the file read-only. Changing any other bit > has no effect on MS-Windows. Yes, that's fine. (And it's good to say that `w' is a write bit.) [But do we usually write "MS-Windows" or "MS Windows"?] From unknown Fri Jun 20 18:15:50 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24897: 24.5; doc for `M' in Dired Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 15:58:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24897 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Drew Adams Cc: 24897@debbugs.gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se Received: via spool by 24897-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24897.15708094823158 (code B ref 24897); Fri, 11 Oct 2019 15:58:03 +0000 Received: (at 24897) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Oct 2019 15:58:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60196 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iIxIn-0000op-Qi for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 11:58:02 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:53367) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iIxIm-0000oW-QE for 24897@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 11:58:01 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:45584) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iIxIh-0000BO-Br; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 11:57:55 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4783 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1iIxIf-0001ZT-Q6; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 11:57:55 -0400 Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 18:57:42 +0300 Message-Id: <83a7a7p955.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: (message from Drew Adams on Fri, 11 Oct 2019 08:45:32 -0700 (PDT)) References: <> <<83ftjzpc7g.fsf@gnu.org>> <<83d0f3pbzu.fsf@gnu.org>> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 08:45:32 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 24897@debbugs.gnu.org > > > Note that on MS-Windows only the `w' (write) bit is meaningful: > > resetting it makes the file read-only. Changing any other bit > > has no effect on MS-Windows. > > Yes, that's fine. > > (And it's good to say that `w' is a write bit.) > > > [But do we usually write "MS-Windows" or "MS Windows"?] As written. From unknown Fri Jun 20 18:15:50 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24897: 24.5; doc for `M' in Dired Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2019 22:39:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24897 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 24897@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 24897-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24897.15710062971900 (code B ref 24897); Sun, 13 Oct 2019 22:39:01 +0000 Received: (at 24897) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Oct 2019 22:38:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37273 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iJmVF-0000UY-8j for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Oct 2019 18:38:17 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f181.google.com ([209.85.210.181]:42763) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iJmVD-0000U6-Bj for 24897@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Oct 2019 18:38:16 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f181.google.com with SMTP id q12so9265926pff.9 for <24897@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 13 Oct 2019 15:38:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=uWEjvpvQ75Tt6Gk3aCIV7PwErUx3wJoajnBXu6lz9x8=; b=njN4NtibEJGtA7Q4Y9CG5iUuEu0hkXH7deNo9cH0OZ+7z2lfWgOvQasYOrH3CuHwlB ryc2+aEvw66thct5UIZ3CVnhDCl+j3www1onbKcU3b4XJ4vKWWLy654SETBdJ6ftghpc pD0zDyn/3J4Sv18838QUIPyJL/+GOHADxGSIGCeS1j4qF5JJXqFQq1Mmuv4In/XGUxR5 Vq4Dt4YZ37Fd6PeoasR8aBxXJIOhnOV1Dyv+yfp+6/GJD5Pzxam7aqqQIOkibyjb4pqZ O68stW5QMs0DeikMxqiFPGkR1s3+PfZbV9ZA2aQ1olwcdt47hxmzSp3piWT574lIzMcP NnYw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAX9NLPEtJRhGzx/TlyEbyRc6pAJtkVDZO76dTlvhQA3vWYfl5c9 fNnNwX7a2HRmXokzpeYBwsh0ZTYYv7GnYV0pugk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw3Td34gYSRclw72b48t205a4GkH2BGKY9bFn0NzXbubofqJ4t6gBxLz0SrOpBBOIVx0ljI/tWLdT5w+dyHeLI= X-Received: by 2002:a63:4046:: with SMTP id n67mr27775954pga.200.1571006289494; Sun, 13 Oct 2019 15:38:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <83ftjzpc7g.fsf@gnu.org> <83d0f3pbzu.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83d0f3pbzu.fsf@gnu.org> From: Stefan Kangas Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2019 00:37:57 +0200 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="000000000000d363a60594d26789" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) --000000000000d363a60594d26789 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Eli Zaretskii writes: > On GNU/Linux, 'chmod' is documented in the Coreutils Info manual, and > the GNU Coding Standards generally prefer Info to man pages. So I'd > suggest to point to the Coreutils manual first, and to the man page > only as fallback. Yes, good thinking. But I pointed to the "File permissions" section instead, which seemed more to the point. > Actually, here's a more useful text: > > Note that on MS-Windows only the `w' (write) bit is meaningful: > resetting it makes the file read-only. Changing any other bit > has no effect on MS-Windows. Thanks. I'm pretty ignorant about MS-Windows so that definitely helps. How about the attached? Best regards, Stefan Kangas --000000000000d363a60594d26789 Content-Type: text/x-patch; charset="US-ASCII"; name="0001-Improve-documentation-of-dired-do-chmod.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-Improve-documentation-of-dired-do-chmod.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: X-Attachment-Id: f_k1pkkg230 RnJvbSA2ZmY4ZDJlNTI1ZGMyYjk0ODA1OTAzM2Q3OTAxMjg4ZjA5MjFkNTc2IE1vbiBTZXAgMTcg MDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBTdGVmYW4gS2FuZ2FzIDxzdGVmYW5rYW5nYXNAZ21haWwuY29t PgpEYXRlOiBGcmksIDExIE9jdCAyMDE5IDE2OjM3OjQ0ICswMjAwClN1YmplY3Q6IFtQQVRDSF0g SW1wcm92ZSBkb2N1bWVudGF0aW9uIG9mIGRpcmVkLWRvLWNobW9kCgoqIGxpc3AvZGlyZWQtYXV4 LmVsIChkaXJlZC1kby1jaG1vZCk6IERvYyBmaXguICBUaGUgcGFydCBhYm91dApNUy1XaW5kb3dz IHdhcyB3cml0dGVuIGJ5IEVsaSBaYXJldHNraWkuICAoQnVnIzI0ODk3KQotLS0KIGxpc3AvZGly ZWQtYXV4LmVsIHwgMTQgKysrKysrKysrKystLS0KIDEgZmlsZSBjaGFuZ2VkLCAxMSBpbnNlcnRp b25zKCspLCAzIGRlbGV0aW9ucygtKQoKZGlmZiAtLWdpdCBhL2xpc3AvZGlyZWQtYXV4LmVsIGIv bGlzcC9kaXJlZC1hdXguZWwKaW5kZXggYmZjMzdjNWNkZS4uOGJkYTI1ZTllMyAxMDA2NDQKLS0t IGEvbGlzcC9kaXJlZC1hdXguZWwKKysrIGIvbGlzcC9kaXJlZC1hdXguZWwKQEAgLTM2NSw5ICsz NjUsMTcgQEAgZGlyZWQtZG8tY2h4eHgKIDs7OyMjI2F1dG9sb2FkCiAoZGVmdW4gZGlyZWQtZG8t Y2htb2QgKCZvcHRpb25hbCBhcmcpCiAgICJDaGFuZ2UgdGhlIG1vZGUgb2YgdGhlIG1hcmtlZCAo b3IgbmV4dCBBUkcpIGZpbGVzLgotU3ltYm9saWMgbW9kZXMgbGlrZSBgZyt3JyBhcmUgYWxsb3dl ZC4KLVR5cGUgTS1uIHRvIHB1bGwgdGhlIGZpbGUgYXR0cmlidXRlcyBvZiB0aGUgZmlsZSBhdCBw b2ludAotaW50byB0aGUgbWluaWJ1ZmZlci4iCitCb3RoIG9jdGFsIG51bWVyaWMgbW9kZXMgbGlr ZSBgNjQ0JyBhbmQgc3ltYm9saWMgbW9kZXMgbGlrZSBgZyt3JworYXJlIHN1cHBvcnRlZC4gIFR5 cGUgTS1uIHRvIHB1bGwgdGhlIGZpbGUgYXR0cmlidXRlcyBvZiB0aGUgZmlsZQorYXQgcG9pbnQg aW50byB0aGUgbWluaWJ1ZmZlci4KKworU2VlIEluZm8gbm9kZSBgKGNvcmV1dGlscylGaWxlIHBl cm1pc3Npb25zJyBmb3IgbW9yZSBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbi4KK0FsdGVybmF0aXZlbHksIHNlZSB0aGUg bWFuIHBhZ2UgZm9yIFwiY2htb2RcIiwgdXNpbmcgdGhlIGNvbW1hbmQKK1xcW21hbl0gaW4gRW1h Y3MuCisKK05vdGUgdGhhdCBvbiBNUy1XaW5kb3dzIG9ubHkgdGhlIGB3JyAod3JpdGUpIGJpdCBp cyBtZWFuaW5nZnVsOgorcmVzZXR0aW5nIGl0IG1ha2VzIHRoZSBmaWxlIHJlYWQtb25seS4gIENo YW5naW5nIGFueSBvdGhlciBiaXQKK2hhcyBubyBlZmZlY3Qgb24gTVMtV2luZG93cy4iCiAgIChp bnRlcmFjdGl2ZSAiUCIpCiAgIChsZXQqICgoZmlsZXMgKGRpcmVkLWdldC1tYXJrZWQtZmlsZXMg dCBhcmcgbmlsIG5pbCB0KSkKIAkgOzsgVGhlIHNvdXJjZSBvZiBkZWZhdWx0IGZpbGUgYXR0cmli dXRlcyBpcyB0aGUgZmlsZSBhdCBwb2ludC4KLS0gCjIuMjAuMQoK --000000000000d363a60594d26789-- From unknown Fri Jun 20 18:15:50 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24897: 24.5; doc for `M' in Dired Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2019 22:39:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24897 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Drew Adams Cc: 24897@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 24897-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24897.15710063201946 (code B ref 24897); Sun, 13 Oct 2019 22:39:02 +0000 Received: (at 24897) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Oct 2019 22:38:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37280 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iJmVb-0000VK-QO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Oct 2019 18:38:40 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f193.google.com ([209.85.214.193]:38556) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iJmVa-0000V5-Nc for 24897@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Oct 2019 18:38:39 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f193.google.com with SMTP id w8so7137454plq.5 for <24897@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 13 Oct 2019 15:38:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=2I+dDgAKty+OjyCuBOzWmmS07vch8cyUGMCZafpsDW4=; b=MBgRUYEz272/sTv6ENxjq+g3F2XeDL4qN/36FPysG4s3A2QOsHEds7cQ1FSKw6KaYX Jg7F7m1/IttSCilLkC2H1GvqF/1OfYWZttXaJfsACM63hQVBXXER/6vnr7hS7BBYfbyd 6cPmSbF+8lSiJx0GDtbfxRWONUcPDDU15c9NSuAANtu8O0sr+K5M4hmK8/nTqLkJfgEz e3KBvG7hJYtJ250kTGtTGmTrTehiGhY30FazY1yakpX4gcBNCCOBhNQhggpEzhKlLAvm vHFmZ5liYa2a06+4sgRgD0IDNFaEV7uiDsGbrDqN645VAe+WjjvBRbIAAGD6Am5XrpGO pqCw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUVtCS/CIzh4iTqVL0w23+4Xp+Qc4+047mdZtslu0MdqwDeqUJR zWZ4LJMi5LZ3sThd9CbZzh/R5IRaQioVJyE14rQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzhD23AskrPHPdu+Hfy8ySWqIeNcgm3KupS3qnrCUOa2yjbe9+dpkJMixpzEXIYL5diz3DFo8tc8ZkQHfX3SP4= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:6b88:: with SMTP id p8mr25808528plk.251.1571006313065; Sun, 13 Oct 2019 15:38:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Stefan Kangas Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2019 00:38:21 +0200 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Thanks for your comments Drew. I think the patch I sent separately fixes your comments, but see also below. Drew Adams writes: > 2. The main point of the request is to ask that the > doc for `M' say something about the permissions, that > it _not_ just point to a `man' page (which typically > won't be available for MS Windows users anyway). [...] > It's good for the doc to _also_ mention the `chmod' > command and its `man' page, but this bug report asks > that the `M' doc itself provide at least a minimum of > help about this - the possible user inputs and their > effects. Are you suggesting that we fully document how both symbolic and octal modes work on Unix-like systems here? If so, I think it's outside the scope of this doc string. Linking to separate documentation seems more sensible, and the new patch I suggested does that. See also: https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/html_node/File-permissions.html Best regards, Stefan Kangas From unknown Fri Jun 20 18:15:50 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24897: 24.5; doc for `M' in Dired Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2019 23:23:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24897 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Stefan Kangas Cc: 24897@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 24897-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24897.15710089226446 (code B ref 24897); Sun, 13 Oct 2019 23:23:02 +0000 Received: (at 24897) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Oct 2019 23:22:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37308 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iJnBZ-0001fg-TH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Oct 2019 19:22:02 -0400 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:52508) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iJnBX-0001fN-Sm for 24897@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Oct 2019 19:22:01 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x9DNJFtY080191; Sun, 13 Oct 2019 23:21:53 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2019-08-05; bh=iUFvrRT8UkA2CUuR8rvUrq0rXL7REU4ok7g54wf7Nvo=; b=WGaJQnJvhI2jBLbfpznnQgfYKezCAh7SZJr3QuUegojhNq0jdIf91tER64xhH7wWClKe n7hoV2yJCtgSA5ODgz/8ekJlJZVZZTwrCrqsnTi6A08u0ci6QUjAGkdNR1lsTVmqhgxz le6cpaNLxNnjIVMPGG9wsNW86V1CfZrefK29OsLGsUTMg8xk/HFbFmv16dfdap/VV2Ys PvnH8yBGhIaaRcHiYeEzkUjgvzF2y7XMSx8vG25lJGGHINp6P6fTB5skd33iNZseiIti VI3xhoMcIC5YGLK3riCnvF1I+MdnXnGBFKxNcAhMwY3gN7BF803+zYDGijXmGcPUlE62 UQ== Received: from aserp3030.oracle.com (aserp3030.oracle.com [141.146.126.71]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2vk6sq57m5-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 13 Oct 2019 23:21:53 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x9DNIUVh191526; Sun, 13 Oct 2019 23:21:53 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2vks05kqkx-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 13 Oct 2019 23:21:53 +0000 Received: from abhmp0006.oracle.com (abhmp0006.oracle.com [141.146.116.12]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x9DNLp6M019551; Sun, 13 Oct 2019 23:21:52 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <7e2e7d39-fa26-4970-b816-355165f862f1@default> Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2019 23:21:51 +0000 (UTC) From: Drew Adams References: In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4900.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9409 signatures=668684 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=965 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-1910130234 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9409 signatures=668684 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-1910130234 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Are you suggesting that we fully document how both symbolic and octal > modes work on Unix-like systems here? How they work? No. Everything about them ("fully")? No. Something about them - a simple example? Why not? I suggest something like this: Instead of "symbolic modes like `g+w'" we say "symbolic modes like `a+w' and `a-w'". `a+w' and `a-w'o are likely the most useful for users on MS Windows. And I think it helps to show both + and -. (I wouldn't mind if we even indicated that +w adds write permission and -w takes it away. But I don't push for that.) > If so, I think it's outside the > scope of this doc string. Linking to separate documentation seems > more sensible, and the new patch I suggested does that. Linking to complete doc (which is necessarily outside Emacs, as you say), is helpful, of course. It's even necessary. But the Emacs doc can provide at least a little help - something simple that even an MS Windows user can use. A simple example can go a long way. > +Note that on MS-Windows only the `w' (write) bit is meaningful: > +resetting it makes the file read-only. Changing any other bit > +has no effect on MS-Windows I'm not sure "resetting" is as clear as this can be. How about something like this? Note that on MS-Windows only the `w' (write) bit is meaningful. Adding it (`a+w') makes a file writable. Removing it (`a-w') makes a file read-only. Changing any other bit has no effect on MS-Windows. (I also think, but Eli will correct me - and this might depend on one's setup, that the use of `g',`u', and `o' is useless on MS Windows. At least in my case there's no distinction between `g', `u', `o', and `a'. But I think I recall Eli saying that it is possible on Windows for these to make a difference.) Anyway, what you have already is an improvement. Thx. From unknown Fri Jun 20 18:15:50 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24897: 24.5; doc for `M' in Dired Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2019 06:41:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24897 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Stefan Kangas Cc: 24897@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 24897-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24897.15710352355674 (code B ref 24897); Mon, 14 Oct 2019 06:41:02 +0000 Received: (at 24897) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Oct 2019 06:40:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37780 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iJu1z-0001TS-0X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 14 Oct 2019 02:40:35 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59308) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iJu1x-0001TD-KX for 24897@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 14 Oct 2019 02:40:33 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:47261) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iJu1r-0004no-1N; Mon, 14 Oct 2019 02:40:28 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4601 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1iJu1p-0002Oz-Bv; Mon, 14 Oct 2019 02:40:26 -0400 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2019 09:40:21 +0300 Message-Id: <83sgnvkey3.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Kangas on Mon, 14 Oct 2019 00:37:57 +0200) References: <83ftjzpc7g.fsf@gnu.org> <83d0f3pbzu.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2019 00:37:57 +0200 > Cc: 24897@debbugs.gnu.org > > How about the attached? LGTM, please install, and thanks. From unknown Fri Jun 20 18:15:50 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24897: 24.5; doc for `M' in Dired Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2019 06:47:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24897 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Drew Adams Cc: 24897@debbugs.gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se Received: via spool by 24897-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24897.15710355996305 (code B ref 24897); Mon, 14 Oct 2019 06:47:02 +0000 Received: (at 24897) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Oct 2019 06:46:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37794 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iJu7r-0001dd-71 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 14 Oct 2019 02:46:39 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60189) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iJu7n-0001dP-Qk for 24897@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 14 Oct 2019 02:46:36 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:47296) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iJu7h-0007zF-V0; Mon, 14 Oct 2019 02:46:30 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4965 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1iJu7f-0001LG-FW; Mon, 14 Oct 2019 02:46:28 -0400 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2019 09:46:21 +0300 Message-Id: <83r23fkeo2.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <7e2e7d39-fa26-4970-b816-355165f862f1@default> (message from Drew Adams on Sun, 13 Oct 2019 23:21:51 +0000 (UTC)) References: <7e2e7d39-fa26-4970-b816-355165f862f1@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2019 23:21:51 +0000 (UTC) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 24897@debbugs.gnu.org > > I suggest something like this: Instead of > "symbolic modes like `g+w'" we say > "symbolic modes like `a+w' and `a-w'". > > `a+w' and `a-w'o are likely the most useful for users on > MS Windows. And I think it helps to show both + and -. On Windows there's no difference between a+w, g+w, u+w, and o+w. You will just confuse people by giving them too many examples. They should read the full docs instead (if they want to use this facility, which on Windows I find not very probable). > > +Note that on MS-Windows only the `w' (write) bit is meaningful: > > +resetting it makes the file read-only. Changing any other bit > > +has no effect on MS-Windows > > I'm not sure "resetting" is as clear as this can be. It's clear enough IMNSHO. Let's not split hair here, shall we? > How about something like this? > > Note that on MS-Windows only the `w' (write) bit is > meaningful. Adding it (`a+w') makes a file writable. > Removing it (`a-w') makes a file read-only. Changing > any other bit has no effect on MS-Windows. See above: using a- or a+ only muddies the water. > (I also think, but Eli will correct me - and this might > depend on one's setup, that the use of `g',`u', and `o' > is useless on MS Windows. At least in my case there's > no distinction between `g', `u', `o', and `a'. "No distinction" is correct, "useless" in confusingly misleading. I think the doc string is fine as proposed in the last message, we should stop bikeshedding about this minor issue. From unknown Fri Jun 20 18:15:50 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Drew Adams Subject: bug#24897: closed (Re: bug#24897: 24.5; doc for `M' in Dired) Message-ID: References: X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 24897 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs X-Gnu-PR-Keywords: patch Reply-To: 24897@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2019 14:02:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1571061722-16863-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1571061722-16863-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #24897: 24.5; doc for `M' in Dired which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 24897@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 24897: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D24897 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1571061722-16863-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 24897-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Oct 2019 14:01:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41388 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iK0ub-0004N7-HZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 14 Oct 2019 10:01:25 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f178.google.com ([209.85.210.178]:32901) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iK0uZ-0004Mu-Sf for 24897-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 14 Oct 2019 10:01:24 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f178.google.com with SMTP id q10so10481536pfl.0 for <24897-done@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 14 Oct 2019 07:01:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Szb9f4fwFJ0Mjy8tRatrSVetbyQMdolORzJxSgyhmxI=; b=Pa/XRj9YOM9134j9BfR7TzlhxoeRlJYFdQTyb3DNTIrZay+Yx1n9BbuPffKzvxf1wj QX1naY6EFzwKrKaOBdYD/qAZt3iUsS4ZKBrpgw0yrfync4gou14zaEcFwgfqOAXANGab cZyjf5vATO+pZsEFCqv0xJ1OId0loLbuqcI9/0siArhDf4+bVu6eBRQQOaPTE20SWHu2 KKwsWPZV3f8pHv3FU8OlD+Aq5MHmWwiGoZY9eGmG+zgZ13VfG/iSXaQPO+k5t8hGwub0 tUmhGTVLjsVE9GuNaFD03BbC8bPNYAniqdEObz9MTiGTCNc0jtVL6Bq5ZOgBvFQmXb43 ID4g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUM501Veg3o3mjnpdjg+QK/GPr3A5GP05kW1rkfCulODTpjhqxv EFfvFoqhJfOt69EdL7H4PpAND6t4/tXWQHvNIoEmbrY2 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxx+nbSvuNA+2TSvhn7mj6kdCDkgqfwoRV+EyZTQcpp/N1Xd7MR7sbXC7ETWg+Diph6FgHhrSt2Z0YAi3/1Unw= X-Received: by 2002:a63:1c03:: with SMTP id c3mr31966440pgc.198.1571061677933; Mon, 14 Oct 2019 07:01:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <83ftjzpc7g.fsf@gnu.org> <83d0f3pbzu.fsf@gnu.org> <83sgnvkey3.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83sgnvkey3.fsf@gnu.org> From: Stefan Kangas Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2019 16:01:06 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#24897: 24.5; doc for `M' in Dired To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24897-done Cc: 24897-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: > > How about the attached? > > LGTM, please install, and thanks. Thanks. Pushed to master as commit ed29d0239a. Best regards, Stefan Kangas ------------=_1571061722-16863-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Nov 2016 18:52:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48672 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3p20-0003kM-Tp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 13:52:33 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:51644) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3p1z-0003kB-Ox for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 13:52:32 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3p1t-0004v7-IT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 13:52:26 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:44979) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3p1t-0004v1-FC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 13:52:25 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42606) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3p1s-0003cv-8j for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 13:52:25 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3p1n-0004tc-C6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 13:52:24 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:18134) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3p1n-0004tS-1z for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 13:52:19 -0500 Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id uA7IqHRT005631 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 7 Nov 2016 18:52:17 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id uA7IqHaG032247 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 7 Nov 2016 18:52:17 GMT Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id uA7IqFDr011429 for ; Mon, 7 Nov 2016 18:52:16 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2016 10:52:13 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.5; doc for `M' in Dired X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) This: http://emacs.stackexchange.com/q/28504/105, asks how to make files read-only using Dired. Besides using wdired, the obvious answer is to use `M'. However, in answering that, it becomes clear that the questioner does not know the UNIX command `chmod', and might not know about file and directory permissions. S?he might not even have what it takes locally to use `M-x man', to find out. And the doc for `M' - both the doc string and the Emacs manual, does not really explain `chmod' or what kind of input a user can type to the prompt from `M'. I think it would be helpful, for at least some users, to add some more explanation. In particular, it could explain about u, g, o, and a, and about the permissions fields rwx and their values. In GNU Emacs 24.5.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2015-04-11 on LEG570 Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --prefix=3D/c/usr --host=3Di686-pc-mingw32' ------------=_1571061722-16863-1--