From unknown Sun Jun 22 17:14:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24891: 25.1: Falsehood on page "Major Modes" of Emacs manual. Resent-From: Alan Mackenzie Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2016 22:26:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 24891 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 24891@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.147847116031616 (code B ref -1); Sun, 06 Nov 2016 22:26:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Nov 2016 22:25:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47196 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3Vt1-0008Ds-NE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 17:25:59 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:58163) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3Vt0-0008Df-A5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 17:25:58 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3Vsu-0000Kb-Cn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 17:25:53 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:42088) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3Vsu-0000KL-0S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 17:25:52 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49130) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3Vst-0006Aj-17 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 17:25:51 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3Vsp-0000Ga-3V for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 17:25:51 -0500 Received: from ocolin.muc.de ([193.149.48.4]:38353 helo=mail.muc.de) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3Vso-000099-PM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 17:25:47 -0500 Received: (qmail 13983 invoked by uid 3782); 6 Nov 2016 22:18:53 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p4FC46647.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.196.102.71]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 23:18:52 +0100 Received: (qmail 7756 invoked by uid 1000); 6 Nov 2016 22:18:32 -0000 Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2016 22:18:32 +0000 Message-ID: <20161106221832.GB5605@acm.fritz.box> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) From: Alan Mackenzie X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: FreeBSD 9.x [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) Hello, Emacs. In the Emacs manual, page "Major Modes" appears the following: all programming language modes run `prog-mode-hook', prior to running their own mode hooks. This is not true. A counter example is stand alone CC Mode. There will be other examples, too, in code not maintained by Emacs. I suggest amending this sentence to something like: many programming language modes (including all these distributed with Emacs) run `prog-mode-hook', prior to runnuing their own mode hooks. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). From unknown Sun Jun 22 17:14:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24891: 25.1: Falsehood on page "Major Modes" of Emacs manual. Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2016 23:21:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24891 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Alan Mackenzie , 24891@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 24891-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24891.14784744154028 (code B ref 24891); Sun, 06 Nov 2016 23:21:02 +0000 Received: (at 24891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Nov 2016 23:20:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47213 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3WjX-00012u-29 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 18:20:15 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:29340) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3WjW-00012h-3q for 24891@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 18:20:14 -0500 Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id uA6NK07G030298 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 Nov 2016 23:20:02 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id uA6NK0kE030582 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 Nov 2016 23:20:00 GMT Received: from abhmp0002.oracle.com (abhmp0002.oracle.com [141.146.116.8]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id uA6NJxTv011866; Sun, 6 Nov 2016 23:20:00 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <71941c5f-0c6c-4edd-99ab-134cf6fdce96@default> Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2016 15:19:57 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <20161106221832.GB5605@acm.fritz.box> In-Reply-To: <20161106221832.GB5605@acm.fritz.box> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-Spam-Score: -5.2 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.2 (-----) > In the Emacs manual, page "Major Modes" appears the following: > > all programming language modes run `prog-mode-hook', prior to > running their own mode hooks. > > I suggest amending this sentence to something like: >=20 > many programming language modes (including all these distributed > with Emacs) run `prog-mode-hook', prior to runnuing their own > mode hooks. +1. But: these -> those, runnuing -> running, and we can drop the comma before "prior". And I'm not sure why we need to or should say "(including...)". Why? I'd suggest just this: many programming language modes run `prog-mode-hook' before running their own mode hooks Or even "some" instead of "many". What does it matter how many do this? From unknown Sun Jun 22 17:14:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24891: 25.1: Falsehood on page "Major Modes" of Emacs manual. Resent-From: Evgeny Roubinchtein Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2016 23:56:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24891 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: Alan Mackenzie , 24891@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 24891-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24891.14784765377379 (code B ref 24891); Sun, 06 Nov 2016 23:56:01 +0000 Received: (at 24891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Nov 2016 23:55:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47287 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3XHl-0001ux-Bx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 18:55:37 -0500 Received: from mail-yw0-f178.google.com ([209.85.161.178]:34567) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3XHj-0001ui-SE for 24891@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 18:55:36 -0500 Received: by mail-yw0-f178.google.com with SMTP id t125so122864366ywc.1 for <24891@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 15:55:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=lb5KfjfIL3Yp38/LtKjlaQ7fqxQ32oxDlmKfPaNcXFs=; b=LniZjvd4NLAgJklogfF2L9i/fSKmv5e0cDq8x/T23oSqLAIjaS6hmTgcaZtxd9v9Jo nNbIzhYZ+I5Rknbc8QtEgFigXBnI4+NgbfDUjSUpMdF8UMlk9uLWjupMQmKZ4XKcvKm9 5adOfs+cEdiT31Wyp2w/GTkZXZ/qsHqYHj8M5UMyqR0cjkmphpfZ6mhjx2K8au9i5EWl yEo+Pescw20ngjWnXhU65kpnEG+gz4R3exno+RkP5aRmEhA9tHzMFD1VvAoO3pLONS+K VfrS+0sKYfXEdFZdojQ4SSkAT/VbWFFWj4Uy/x1XjB3uODK9lS83mGhcdBXqkNrouIIZ Tbaw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=lb5KfjfIL3Yp38/LtKjlaQ7fqxQ32oxDlmKfPaNcXFs=; b=eQy6hL2CSKnGbnyG4kCSP+zXTxK55ij8ONrQsZkRIn6TytyDeVcJp2KO+cGnvIKU7S L5d3wCQ/V0OmC3CBTk+fo/17g9DEaSH/Uo9otJsnlwEoDy5IEwo2He8qqdfImGCs8u5+ zzqb61QV9rTNi1RtCnZ8ioqLxNdwVBxo0Vnx/HqchIBK9MDJvWFlZt/+14etcQAMMZYa ukglkZdnKBguCcXCFV7J2R2ncOaXO5H9SOTUpRfGUWng2GRfV1Takpnay1zF6p8q11pm l7EvF/ggI6UcMYJ2JjFlpL6N+r4ggGSxtjvUAW4+0Zrve+wDvZ4ihbMB9ZjYxdFnSR11 1V/g== X-Gm-Message-State: ABUngvei2bPHdubPGPGSwQ7ZYasz/NumnuoJY8SW2dRANk1fAJTzBQZkT5lnaasCDD7zFlQbyTWQATg29Mxl4g== X-Received: by 10.129.71.8 with SMTP id u8mr3721980ywa.115.1478476530080; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 15:55:30 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.171.207 with HTTP; Sun, 6 Nov 2016 15:55:29 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <71941c5f-0c6c-4edd-99ab-134cf6fdce96@default> References: <20161106221832.GB5605@acm.fritz.box> <71941c5f-0c6c-4edd-99ab-134cf6fdce96@default> From: Evgeny Roubinchtein Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2016 18:55:29 -0500 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114d72ec6262b30540aaa403 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) --001a114d72ec6262b30540aaa403 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Is it the case that the modes that do run prog-mode-hook are exactly the modes derived from prog-mode? On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 6:19 PM, Drew Adams wrote: > > In the Emacs manual, page "Major Modes" appears the following: > > > > all programming language modes run `prog-mode-hook', prior to > > running their own mode hooks. > > > > I suggest amending this sentence to something like: > > > > many programming language modes (including all these distributed > > with Emacs) run `prog-mode-hook', prior to runnuing their own > > mode hooks. > > +1. > > But: these -> those, > runnuing -> running, > and we can drop the comma before "prior". > > And I'm not sure why we need to or should say "(including...)". Why? > > I'd suggest just this: > > many programming language modes run `prog-mode-hook' before > running their own mode hooks > > Or even "some" instead of "many". What does it matter how > many do this? > > > > > --001a114d72ec6262b30540aaa403 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Is it the case that the modes that do run prog-mode-hook a= re exactly the modes derived from prog-mode?

On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 6:19 PM, Drew Adams= <drew.adams@oracle.com> wrote:
> In the Emacs manual, page "Major Modes= " appears the following:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0all programming language modes run `prog-mode-hook&= #39;, prior to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0running their own mode hooks.
>
> I suggest amending this sentence to something = like:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0many programming language modes (including all thes= e distributed
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0with Emacs) run `prog-mode-hook', prior to runn= uing their own
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0mode hooks.

+1.

But: these -> those,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0runnuing -> running,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0and we can drop the comma before "prior".

And I'm not sure why we need to or should say "(including...)"= ;.=C2=A0 Why?

I'd suggest just this:

=C2=A0 many programming language modes run `prog-mode-hook' before
=C2=A0 running their own mode hooks

Or even "some" instead of "many".=C2=A0 What does it ma= tter how
many do this?





--001a114d72ec6262b30540aaa403-- From unknown Sun Jun 22 17:14:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24891: 25.1: Falsehood on page "Major Modes" of Emacs manual. Resent-From: Dmitry Gutov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2016 00:06:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24891 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Alan Mackenzie , 24891@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 24891-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24891.14784771358295 (code B ref 24891); Mon, 07 Nov 2016 00:06:02 +0000 Received: (at 24891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Nov 2016 00:05:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47291 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3XRP-00029j-Cf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 19:05:35 -0500 Received: from mail-wm0-f50.google.com ([74.125.82.50]:36250) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3XRN-00029V-TO for 24891@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 19:05:34 -0500 Received: by mail-wm0-f50.google.com with SMTP id p190so152244594wmp.1 for <24891@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 16:05:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vlHUaGJ14JK3x+BPtUEpv3VUAKveClazC/tmmZZ79Xk=; b=jeUd0gELSYwR77wzBK8OOFBmJPHJOy41tuEHydrGMEmooAGdDteEJQ6vlFo3WKbFpx ouePCoBWpvikH0GJaZTH9qrkDiTM77+cxEs9tCmrhkPb9xJLBiR1KzY626DSXpf2oIhv /zYEdYGLXyNmuYNzeUcSI03k19o25QaDFoU1Xxwbo83ku8msllB/gDn6CmF4+PyUg6p3 aXq0/EmQx9sD9GxzQaoVtpSLuztytOU10fM4BMa9hUm8Kd3IqCX1p7Z5vbBDtcGrEqsU Vn0JDMbR3yRTagSIC7BWRHF5LSV2rp3SS7vTk+BRAIWKTo9ZaUqOxen5KxOI0I8gK7KB afqQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=vlHUaGJ14JK3x+BPtUEpv3VUAKveClazC/tmmZZ79Xk=; b=Tsxm3LO+XPiV86V+eiRF4H2HjgtxPuLfsvH8B9NHRkAS+Kubt6THGgvSmT1eB8Rpmd IqRXBwRCiJKwDOUL+SVkzVXiKtasbXEXKguwGPWBaNLBlxV++8pdy22YqrpYt2xOZ0m1 HtahJsVoKuM0IwxtTbjXZ+9+yMH6+XV+ZjdIgkq6mu45ZX2OiDHRpWIKfk53CVrebR9m vwXbzBbyO2Uf9EWmIQ6amn5dbi93Q5TgbOnilm3QrT5OVTKu9dwvg6KkQ4YAJ8kA+Q3s KIEEgRL7PtxbXADkIGkDyQrJZeDMNBdT7XzUfHY42tdlvjQIZrhxCdhHQtkbJOx8EEhk najQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ABUngver+oLd0wr/X3HTOiQwIS7dfI5ESVC+3shGJLGp3W5utNomtDfGgReUeq+T2XmCmg== X-Received: by 10.28.54.3 with SMTP id d3mr6150625wma.34.1478477128038; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 16:05:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([185.105.173.41]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id h10sm27618212wje.48.2016.11.06.16.05.26 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 06 Nov 2016 16:05:27 -0800 (PST) References: <20161106221832.GB5605@acm.fritz.box> From: Dmitry Gutov Message-ID: Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2016 02:05:24 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:50.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/50.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20161106221832.GB5605@acm.fritz.box> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) On 07.11.2016 00:18, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > This is not true. A counter example is stand alone CC Mode. There will > be other examples, too, in code not maintained by Emacs. I suggest > amending this sentence to something like: > > many programming language modes (including all these distributed > with Emacs) run `prog-mode-hook', prior to runnuing their own mode > hooks. I believe the idea is to equate "programming language mode" with "deriving from prog-mode". To give a strong signal to major mode authors. From unknown Sun Jun 22 17:14:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24891: 25.1: Falsehood on page "Major Modes" of Emacs manual. Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2016 14:44:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24891 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Alan Mackenzie Cc: 24891@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 24891-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24891.147852982011226 (code B ref 24891); Mon, 07 Nov 2016 14:44:01 +0000 Received: (at 24891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Nov 2016 14:43:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47674 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3l99-0002v0-UN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 09:43:40 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:34003) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3l98-0002up-ND for 24891@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 09:43:38 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3l92-0005kE-JL for 24891@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 09:43:33 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:37079) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3l8z-0005it-Kx; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 09:43:29 -0500 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1c3l8z-0007jq-3H; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 09:43:29 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-reply-to: <20161106221832.GB5605@acm.fritz.box> (message from Alan Mackenzie on Sun, 6 Nov 2016 22:18:32 +0000) References: <20161106221832.GB5605@acm.fritz.box> Message-Id: Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2016 09:43:29 -0500 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -7.9 (-------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -7.9 (-------) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > all programming language modes run `prog-mode-hook', prior to > running their own mode hooks. > This is not true. A counter example is stand alone CC Mode. Shouldn't we arrange for that to get fixed? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. From unknown Sun Jun 22 17:14:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24891: 25.1: Falsehood on page "Major Modes" of Emacs manual. Resent-From: Alan Mackenzie Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2016 19:48:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24891 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Richard Stallman Cc: 24891@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 24891-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24891.147854802719640 (code B ref 24891); Mon, 07 Nov 2016 19:48:02 +0000 Received: (at 24891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Nov 2016 19:47:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48691 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3pso-00056i-U5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 14:47:07 -0500 Received: from ocolin.muc.de ([193.149.48.4]:46951 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3psm-00056V-VW for 24891@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 14:47:05 -0500 Received: (qmail 89528 invoked by uid 3782); 7 Nov 2016 19:47:03 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p548C6E8D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.140.110.141]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 20:47:02 +0100 Received: (qmail 3041 invoked by uid 1000); 7 Nov 2016 19:46:42 -0000 Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2016 19:46:42 +0000 Message-ID: <20161107194642.GA2988@acm.fritz.box> References: <20161106221832.GB5605@acm.fritz.box> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) From: Alan Mackenzie X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) Hello, Richard. On Mon, Nov 07, 2016 at 09:43:29AM -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > all programming language modes run `prog-mode-hook', prior to > > running their own mode hooks. > > This is not true. A counter example is stand alone CC Mode. > Shouldn't we arrange for that to get fixed? No, because it's not broken. One of the purposes of stand alone CC Mode is to run on versions of (X)Emacs other than the latest Emacs. Traditionally, define-derived-mode has had defects which have resulted in bugs revealed by CC Mode - hopefully the last of these has now been fixed. So it's handy to have a CC Mode which isn't defined by define-derived-mode. The main point of my bug report still stands - there are an unknown number of programming language modes out there which are not derived from prog-mode. This makes the sentence fragment referred to untrue, so it should be modified. > -- > Dr Richard Stallman > President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) > Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) > Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). From unknown Sun Jun 22 17:14:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24891: 25.1: Falsehood on page "Major Modes" of Emacs manual. Resent-From: Alan Mackenzie Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2016 20:31:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24891 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Evgeny Roubinchtein Cc: Drew Adams , 24891@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 24891-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24891.147855062224053 (code B ref 24891); Mon, 07 Nov 2016 20:31:02 +0000 Received: (at 24891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Nov 2016 20:30:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48729 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3qYg-0006Ft-Gg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 15:30:22 -0500 Received: from ocolin.muc.de ([193.149.48.4]:18659 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3qYf-0006Fh-Bs for 24891@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 15:30:21 -0500 Received: (qmail 1920 invoked by uid 3782); 7 Nov 2016 20:30:19 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p548C6E8D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.140.110.141]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 21:30:18 +0100 Received: (qmail 3265 invoked by uid 1000); 7 Nov 2016 20:29:58 -0000 Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2016 20:29:58 +0000 Message-ID: <20161107202958.GB2988@acm.fritz.box> References: <20161106221832.GB5605@acm.fritz.box> <71941c5f-0c6c-4edd-99ab-134cf6fdce96@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) From: Alan Mackenzie X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) Hello, Evgeny. On Sun, Nov 06, 2016 at 06:55:29PM -0500, Evgeny Roubinchtein wrote: > Is it the case that the modes that do run prog-mode-hook are exactly the > modes derived from prog-mode? It is, yes. It would be sort of nice to put this in the manual, but that manual is the Emacs manual, not the Elisp manual, where it really belongs. Maybe a footnote pointing at the Elisp manual would be the thing, here. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). From unknown Sun Jun 22 17:14:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24891: 25.1: Falsehood on page "Major Modes" of Emacs manual. Resent-From: Alan Mackenzie Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2016 20:41:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24891 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 24891@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 24891-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24891.147855122224921 (code B ref 24891); Mon, 07 Nov 2016 20:41:02 +0000 Received: (at 24891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Nov 2016 20:40:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48737 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3qiM-0006Ts-Kx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 15:40:22 -0500 Received: from ocolin.muc.de ([193.149.48.4]:29340 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3qiL-0006Tl-Ge for 24891@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 15:40:21 -0500 Received: (qmail 4759 invoked by uid 3782); 7 Nov 2016 20:40:20 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p548C6E8D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.140.110.141]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 21:40:19 +0100 Received: (qmail 3318 invoked by uid 1000); 7 Nov 2016 20:39:59 -0000 Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2016 20:39:59 +0000 Message-ID: <20161107203959.GC2988@acm.fritz.box> References: <20161106221832.GB5605@acm.fritz.box> <71941c5f-0c6c-4edd-99ab-134cf6fdce96@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <71941c5f-0c6c-4edd-99ab-134cf6fdce96@default> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) From: Alan Mackenzie X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) Hello, Drew. On Sun, Nov 06, 2016 at 03:19:57PM -0800, Drew Adams wrote: > > In the Emacs manual, page "Major Modes" appears the following: > > all programming language modes run `prog-mode-hook', prior to > > running their own mode hooks. > > I suggest amending this sentence to something like: > > many programming language modes (including all these distributed > > with Emacs) run `prog-mode-hook', prior to runnuing their own > > mode hooks. > +1. > But: these -> those, > runnuing -> running, Yes, thanks. > and we can drop the comma before "prior". Maybe, maybe not. The bit beginning with "prior" isn't qualifying what comes before, it's adding an extra bit of independent information, so the comma is justified. > And I'm not sure why we need to or should say "(including...)". Why? I'm told there are users who put things in prog-mode-hook to get effects in (nearly) all programming modes. It will avoid confusing them. Also, on a purely pragmatic point, the "(including...)" bit is likely to reduce objections to my proposed change, allowing it to get into Emacs 25.2 more smoothly. > I'd suggest just this: > many programming language modes run `prog-mode-hook' before > running their own mode hooks > Or even "some" instead of "many". What does it matter how > many do this? "Some" is not incorrect, but it's not quite accurate either. "Some" tends to carry connotations of "not that many" in English when a context hasn't been established. I think it's the case that most programming language modes are now derived from prog-mode, so "many" warns users to be aware of exceptions. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). From unknown Sun Jun 22 17:14:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24891: 25.1: Falsehood on page "Major Modes" of Emacs manual. Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2016 20:52:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24891 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Alan Mackenzie Cc: 24891@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 24891-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24891.147855187525899 (code B ref 24891); Mon, 07 Nov 2016 20:52:02 +0000 Received: (at 24891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Nov 2016 20:51:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48742 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3qst-0006jf-Ly for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 15:51:15 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:42850) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3qss-0006jS-7E for 24891@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 15:51:14 -0500 Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id uA7Kp7Ah005952 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 7 Nov 2016 20:51:08 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id uA7Kp6sB001446 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 7 Nov 2016 20:51:07 GMT Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id uA7Kp5F7019285; Mon, 7 Nov 2016 20:51:05 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <1088fcf6-d37f-4f0f-8537-3dbb4e01d2a0@default> Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2016 12:51:02 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <20161106221832.GB5605@acm.fritz.box> <71941c5f-0c6c-4edd-99ab-134cf6fdce96@default> <20161107203959.GC2988@acm.fritz.box> In-Reply-To: <20161107203959.GC2988@acm.fritz.box> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-Spam-Score: -7.8 (-------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -7.8 (-------) > > and we can drop the comma before "prior". >=20 > Maybe, maybe not. The bit beginning with "prior" isn't qualifying > what comes before, it's adding an extra bit of independent information, > so the comma is justified. I don't agree. It is not an independent clause - it cannot stand alone. It is an adverbial clause that qualifies how (when) the modes run the p-g-m hook. > > And I'm not sure why we need to or should say "(including...)". > > Why? >=20 > I'm told there are users who put things in prog-mode-hook to get > effects in (nearly) all programming modes. It will avoid confusing > them. OK. > Also, on a purely pragmatic point, the "(including...)" bit is likely to > reduce objections to my proposed change, allowing it to get into Emacs 25= .2 > more smoothly. ;-) > > I'd suggest just this: >=20 > > many programming language modes run `prog-mode-hook' before > > running their own mode hooks >=20 > > Or even "some" instead of "many". What does it matter how > > many do this? >=20 > "Some" is not incorrect, but it's not quite accurate either. "Some" > tends to carry connotations of "not that many" in English when a > context hasn't been established. Tends to? No, I don't think so. Can? Sure. But without context "some" suggests only at least one. It contrasts with none, not with many. "Only some" (esp "only a few"), on the other hand, is as you say. > I think it's the case that most > programming language modes are now derived from prog-mode, so "many" > warns users to be aware of exceptions. Fair enough. I'd still use "some", as it tends to have the effect of soliciting examination of whether to do so (when you write a mode), and to think about why and why not. Thinking about whether & why is more important than how many might use it. Anyway, these are all minor points, and I don't feel strongly about any of them. From unknown Sun Jun 22 17:14:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24891: 25.1: Falsehood on page "Major Modes" of Emacs manual. Resent-From: Alan Mackenzie Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2016 22:05:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24891 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 24891@debbugs.gnu.org Cc: acm@muc.de Received: via spool by 24891-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24891.147855626332355 (code B ref 24891); Mon, 07 Nov 2016 22:05:02 +0000 Received: (at 24891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Nov 2016 22:04:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48772 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3s1f-0008Pn-Jh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 17:04:23 -0500 Received: from ocolin.muc.de ([193.149.48.4]:15543 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3s1d-0008Pe-FJ for 24891@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 17:04:21 -0500 Received: (qmail 31533 invoked by uid 3782); 7 Nov 2016 22:04:20 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p548C6E8D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.140.110.141]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 23:04:19 +0100 Received: (qmail 3504 invoked by uid 1000); 7 Nov 2016 22:03:59 -0000 Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2016 22:03:59 +0000 Message-ID: <20161107220359.GA3447@acm.fritz.box> References: <20161106221832.GB5605@acm.fritz.box> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20161106221832.GB5605@acm.fritz.box> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) From: Alan Mackenzie X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) Hello, Emacs. On Sun, Nov 06, 2016 at 10:18:32PM +0000, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > In the Emacs manual, page "Major Modes" appears the following: > all programming language modes run `prog-mode-hook', prior to > running their own mode hooks. > This is not true. A counter example is stand alone CC Mode. There will > be other examples, too, in code not maintained by Emacs. I suggest > amending this sentence to something like: > many programming language modes (including all these distributed > with Emacs) run `prog-mode-hook', prior to runnuing their own mode > hooks. Here's a patch incorporating some of the points other people have made: diff --git a/doc/emacs/modes.texi b/doc/emacs/modes.texi index c1564e9..c8da68a 100644 --- a/doc/emacs/modes.texi +++ b/doc/emacs/modes.texi @@ -113,7 +113,10 @@ Major Modes is enabled in a buffer. @xref{Hooks}, for more information about hooks. Each mode hook is named after its major mode, e.g., Fortran mode has @code{fortran-mode-hook}. Furthermore, all text-based major -modes run @code{text-mode-hook}, and all programming language modes +modes run @code{text-mode-hook}, and many programming language modes +(including all those distributed with Emacs)@footnote{More +specifically, the modes which are ''derived'' from @code{prog-mode} +(@pxref{Derived Modes,,, elisp, The Emacs Lisp Reference Manual}).} run @code{prog-mode-hook}, prior to running their own mode hooks. Hook functions can look at the value of the variable @code{major-mode} to see which mode is actually being entered. Any objections to me installing this in the Emacs-25 branch? -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). From unknown Sun Jun 22 17:14:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24891: 25.1: Falsehood on page "Major Modes" of Emacs manual. Resent-From: Alan Mackenzie Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2016 22:15:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24891 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 24891@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 24891-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24891.1478556868785 (code B ref 24891); Mon, 07 Nov 2016 22:15:02 +0000 Received: (at 24891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Nov 2016 22:14:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48779 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3sBQ-0000Ca-I6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 17:14:28 -0500 Received: from ocolin.muc.de ([193.149.48.4]:26016 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3sBO-0000CS-QO for 24891@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 17:14:27 -0500 Received: (qmail 34483 invoked by uid 3782); 7 Nov 2016 22:14:26 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p548C6E8D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.140.110.141]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 23:14:25 +0100 Received: (qmail 3622 invoked by uid 1000); 7 Nov 2016 22:14:05 -0000 Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2016 22:14:05 +0000 Message-ID: <20161107221404.GD2988@acm.fritz.box> References: <20161106221832.GB5605@acm.fritz.box> <71941c5f-0c6c-4edd-99ab-134cf6fdce96@default> <20161107203959.GC2988@acm.fritz.box> <1088fcf6-d37f-4f0f-8537-3dbb4e01d2a0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1088fcf6-d37f-4f0f-8537-3dbb4e01d2a0@default> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) From: Alan Mackenzie X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) Hello, Drew. On Mon, Nov 07, 2016 at 12:51:02PM -0800, Drew Adams wrote: > > > and we can drop the comma before "prior". > > Maybe, maybe not. The bit beginning with "prior" isn't qualifying > > what comes before, it's adding an extra bit of independent information, > > so the comma is justified. > I don't agree. It is not an independent clause - it cannot stand > alone. It is an adverbial clause that qualifies how (when) the modes > run the p-g-m hook. Sorry to keep pounding on at this one, but I see the reason for the comma now. It's because the "prior ..." bit applies to the "text-mode-hook" bit as well as the "prog-mode-hook" bit. The comma prevents "prior ..." from attaching exclusively to the "prog-mode-hook" bit. Anyway, good afternoon (for you), good night (for me)! [ .... ] -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). From unknown Sun Jun 22 17:14:40 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Alan Mackenzie Subject: bug#24891: closed (Re: 25.1: Falsehood on page "Major Modes" of Emacs manual.) Message-ID: References: <20161110212641.GA5074@acm.fritz.box> <20161106221832.GB5605@acm.fritz.box> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 24891 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 24891@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2016 21:28:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1478813282-3360-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1478813282-3360-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #24891: 25.1: Falsehood on page "Major Modes" of Emacs manual. which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 24891@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 24891: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D24891 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1478813282-3360-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 24891-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Nov 2016 21:27:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52741 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c4wsD-0000r3-Cl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 10 Nov 2016 16:27:05 -0500 Received: from ocolin.muc.de ([193.149.48.4]:37876 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c4wsB-0000qv-Sf for 24891-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 10 Nov 2016 16:27:04 -0500 Received: (qmail 59200 invoked by uid 3782); 10 Nov 2016 21:27:02 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p548C7E6F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.140.126.111]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 10 Nov 2016 22:27:01 +0100 Received: (qmail 5082 invoked by uid 1000); 10 Nov 2016 21:26:41 -0000 Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2016 21:26:41 +0000 To: 24891-done@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: 25.1: Falsehood on page "Major Modes" of Emacs manual. Message-ID: <20161110212641.GA5074@acm.fritz.box> References: <20161106221832.GB5605@acm.fritz.box> <20161107220359.GA3447@acm.fritz.box> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20161107220359.GA3447@acm.fritz.box> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) From: Alan Mackenzie X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24891-done X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) Bug fixed. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). ------------=_1478813282-3360-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Nov 2016 22:25:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47196 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3Vt1-0008Ds-NE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 17:25:59 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:58163) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3Vt0-0008Df-A5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 17:25:58 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3Vsu-0000Kb-Cn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 17:25:53 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:42088) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3Vsu-0000KL-0S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 17:25:52 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49130) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3Vst-0006Aj-17 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 17:25:51 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3Vsp-0000Ga-3V for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 17:25:51 -0500 Received: from ocolin.muc.de ([193.149.48.4]:38353 helo=mail.muc.de) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3Vso-000099-PM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 17:25:47 -0500 Received: (qmail 13983 invoked by uid 3782); 6 Nov 2016 22:18:53 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p4FC46647.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.196.102.71]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 23:18:52 +0100 Received: (qmail 7756 invoked by uid 1000); 6 Nov 2016 22:18:32 -0000 Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2016 22:18:32 +0000 To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 25.1: Falsehood on page "Major Modes" of Emacs manual. Message-ID: <20161106221832.GB5605@acm.fritz.box> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) From: Alan Mackenzie X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: FreeBSD 9.x [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) Hello, Emacs. In the Emacs manual, page "Major Modes" appears the following: all programming language modes run `prog-mode-hook', prior to running their own mode hooks. This is not true. A counter example is stand alone CC Mode. There will be other examples, too, in code not maintained by Emacs. I suggest amending this sentence to something like: many programming language modes (including all these distributed with Emacs) run `prog-mode-hook', prior to runnuing their own mode hooks. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). ------------=_1478813282-3360-1--