GNU bug report logs - #24878
Most people can't read the attachments when I attach multiple messages to a message

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
To: submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (The Gnus Bugfixing Girls + Boys)
Subject: Most people can't read the attachments when I attach multiple
 messages to a message
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2016 11:51:14 -0700

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

When I select multiple messages and forward them to someone, I
invariably get a response from them that they didn't receive anything.
Presumably this means either Gnus is doing something incorrect, or (more
likely) approximately no other MUAs can read the correct thing Gnus is
doing.  I've attached an example of a raw message I sent someone using
Gnus, containing other messages.

[x.msg (application/octet-stream, attachment)]

[Message part 3 (text/plain, inline)]

Gnus v5.13
GNU Emacs 25.1.3 (x86_64-apple-darwin13.4.0, Carbon Version 157 AppKit 1265.21)
 of 2016-09-18
200 Leafnode NNTP Daemon, version 1.11.11 running at localhost (my fqdn: dabrahams.boostpro.com)
100 Legal commands on THIS server:
 ARTICLE [<Message-ID>|<Number>]
 BODY [<Message-ID>|<Number>]
 DATE
 GROUP <Newsgroup>
 HDR <Header> <Message-ID>|<Range>
 HEAD [<Message-ID>|<Number>]
 HELP
 LAST
 LIST [ACTIVE|NEWSGROUPS] [<Wildmat>]]
 LIST [ACTIVE.TIMES|EXTENSIONS|OVERVIEW.FMT]
 LISTGROUP <Newsgroup>
 MODE READER
 NEWGROUPS <yymmdd> <hhmmss> [GMT]
 NEXT
 POST
 OVER <Range>
 SLAVE
 STAT [<Message-ID>|<Number>]
 XHDR <Header> <Message-ID>|<Range>
 XOVER <Range>
.

-- 
-Dave

Message #8 received at 24878 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
Cc: 24878 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#24878: Most people can't read the attachments when I attach
 multiple messages to a message
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 01:11:39 +0100

Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com> writes:

> When I select multiple messages and forward them to someone, I
> invariably get a response from them that they didn't receive anything.
> Presumably this means either Gnus is doing something incorrect, or (more
> likely) approximately no other MUAs can read the correct thing Gnus is
> doing.  I've attached an example of a raw message I sent someone using
> Gnus, containing other messages.

I kinda doubt that Gnus is doing something wrong (JUST BECAUSE), but
there are some very nit-picky mail readers out there.  For instance, one
guy I know is unable to read attachments unless I include them as the
final element in the mail.

So my guess is that there's isn't really anything to be done here, other
than despair over other mail reader programmers...

Or Message could say (if you include attachments that are known not to
be vanilla) "it's somewhat likely that some mail readers can't read
this; send anyway?", but I'm not sure that's really helpful...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #11 received at 24878 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 24878 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#24878: Most people can't read the attachments when I attach
 multiple messages to a message
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 17:57:33 -0800

on Thu Jan 26 2017, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi-AT-gnus.org> wrote:

> Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com> writes:
>
>> When I select multiple messages and forward them to someone, I
>> invariably get a response from them that they didn't receive anything.
>> Presumably this means either Gnus is doing something incorrect, or (more
>> likely) approximately no other MUAs can read the correct thing Gnus is
>> doing.  I've attached an example of a raw message I sent someone using
>> Gnus, containing other messages.
>
> I kinda doubt that Gnus is doing something wrong (JUST BECAUSE), but
> there are some very nit-picky mail readers out there.  For instance, one
> guy I know is unable to read attachments unless I include them as the
> final element in the mail.
>
> So my guess is that there's isn't really anything to be done here, other
> than despair over other mail reader programmers...
>
> Or Message could say (if you include attachments that are known not to
> be vanilla) "it's somewhat likely that some mail readers can't read
> this; send anyway?", but I'm not sure that's really helpful...

I would suggest that we provide an option that doesn't attempt to nest
the attached messages in a "digest" MIME part.  These other MUAs can all
handle email message attachments, but Gnus is making a very fancy
package of them that is (roughly speaking) only compatible with Gnus
itself.  I even think the more widely-readable attachment format should
be the default.

-- 
-Dave

Message #14 received at 24878 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
Cc: 24878 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#24878: Most people can't read the attachments when I attach
 multiple messages to a message
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 13:13:33 +0100

Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com> writes:

> I would suggest that we provide an option that doesn't attempt to nest
> the attached messages in a "digest" MIME part.  These other MUAs can all
> handle email message attachments, but Gnus is making a very fancy
> package of them that is (roughly speaking) only compatible with Gnus
> itself.  I even think the more widely-readable attachment format should
> be the default.

Yes...  In the multiple-forwarded-message-case, Gnus could just append
them all separately as attachments without making a digest out of them.
But I don't know whether common mail readers would balk at that format,
too -- other mail readers don't seem to use MIME at all when forwarding
messages. 

Anybody else have an opinion/experience here?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #17 received at 24878 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 24878 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#24878: Most people can't read the attachments when I attach
 multiple messages to a message
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 07:53:06 -0800

Data point: Apple mail can forward as attachment if you ask it to. 

Sent from my moss-covered three-handled family gradunza

> On Jan 27, 2017, at 4:13 AM, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> wrote:
> 
> Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com> writes:
> 
>> I would suggest that we provide an option that doesn't attempt to nest
>> the attached messages in a "digest" MIME part.  These other MUAs can all
>> handle email message attachments, but Gnus is making a very fancy
>> package of them that is (roughly speaking) only compatible with Gnus
>> itself.  I even think the more widely-readable attachment format should
>> be the default.
> 
> Yes...  In the multiple-forwarded-message-case, Gnus could just append
> them all separately as attachments without making a digest out of them.
> But I don't know whether common mail readers would balk at that format,
> too -- other mail readers don't seem to use MIME at all when forwarding
> messages. 
> 
> Anybody else have an opinion/experience here?
> 
> -- 
> (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
>   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #20 received at 24878 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
Cc: 24878 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#24878: Most people can't read the attachments when I attach
 multiple messages to a message
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2018 22:04:34 +0200

I've just changed the default of message-forward-as-mime to nil, which
should fix the problem, I think?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #27 received at 24878 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>, 24878 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#24878: Most people can't read the attachments when I attach
 multiple messages to a message
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 12:26:55 +0200

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:

> I've just changed the default of message-forward-as-mime to nil, which
> should fix the problem, I think?

The march of dumbing everything down because some clients donʼt
understand standards seems unstoppable. Iʼd definitely prefer the
default to stay as using mime.

Robert

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