From unknown Mon Aug 18 09:06:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24875: 26.0.50; In Dotted Pair Notation, the read function returns CDR if CAR is absent Resent-From: Chunyang Xu Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2016 15:40:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 24875 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 24875@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.147827400123038 (code B ref -1); Fri, 04 Nov 2016 15:40:03 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Nov 2016 15:40:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44669 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c2gb2-0005zV-V3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 04 Nov 2016 11:40:01 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:34155) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c2fBq-0002CX-OR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 04 Nov 2016 10:09:55 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c2fBh-0005Mh-B8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 04 Nov 2016 10:09:49 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:39575) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c2fBh-0005MP-8V for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 04 Nov 2016 10:09:45 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53304) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c2fBg-0000v0-0K for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 04 Nov 2016 10:09:45 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c2fBb-0005GF-Fc for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 04 Nov 2016 10:09:43 -0400 Received: from smtpbg132.qq.com ([113.108.23.42]:41623) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c2fBa-000598-Ph for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 04 Nov 2016 10:09:39 -0400 X-QQ-mid: bizesmtp8t1478266599twhzx3gfc Received: from ubuntu (unknown [180.126.93.86]) by esmtp4.qq.com (ESMTP) with SMTP id 0 for ; Fri, 04 Nov 2016 21:36:39 +0800 (CST) X-QQ-SSF: 0110000000200020F112B00A0000000 X-QQ-FEAT: M7qaDlReithJPOAcJM34FB+w2zQEyUI+ut9+aitzeaFfeqlpD+bGQpa+dVDwQ xpIFie9BCNm+zYP7bHVPyZcTuHeDHbgwVa6CdeWKlsVKSqwdrOQCOyBfKyNSKp8hW5P/uqL kr3tjtY4mNec8OC4ZrkqARPmVM9WBlft9IIlClI175Y1VMLVDCaSza78cWx3mudH8hIYX4G +w0yDoEfCpBHiXKJZn2XtG8PX3tbET8l9Wl+eiU9ZCgZk7Z+WuxqDAdRD/xErqGk= X-QQ-GoodBg: 0 From: Chunyang Xu Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2016 21:36:38 +0800 Message-ID: <87fun7v02h.fsf@xuchunyang.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-QQ-SENDSIZE: 520 X-QQ-Bgrelay: 1 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 04 Nov 2016 11:40:00 -0400 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) For example, I eval this in the *scratch* buffer: (read "( . 123)") =E2=87=92 123 (read "(1 . ( . (3 . nil)))") =E2=87=92 (1 3) I can't find explanation about this behavior in elisp manual. Is it expected? According to an answer [1] by wasamasa on Emacs StackExchange, Guile behaves the same, but other Lisp interpreters (csi, pil and sbcl) and MIT-Scheme don't permit reading this. [1] http://emacs.stackexchange.com/a/28410/3889 From unknown Mon Aug 18 09:06:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24875: 26.0.50; In Dotted Pair Notation, the read function returns CDR if CAR is absent Resent-From: Andreas Schwab Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2016 16:01:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24875 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Chunyang Xu Cc: 24875@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 24875-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24875.147827523825175 (code B ref 24875); Fri, 04 Nov 2016 16:01:03 +0000 Received: (at 24875) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Nov 2016 16:00:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44750 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c2guz-0006Xz-Qc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 04 Nov 2016 12:00:38 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.9]:41771) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c2gux-0006Xp-Hm for 24875@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 04 Nov 2016 12:00:36 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3t9RPt2WZ2z3hjNh; Fri, 4 Nov 2016 17:00:34 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.68]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3t9RPt1Klgzvp7p; Fri, 4 Nov 2016 17:00:34 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.68]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nzSiCFmfmS6z; Fri, 4 Nov 2016 17:00:28 +0100 (CET) X-Auth-Info: USoaFm4h2tRL5on14nrusceqVgEx8LBoOXwo79IClTY+cWtqVGrk11cUmL3+hhjx Received: from igel.home (ppp-88-217-21-71.dynamic.mnet-online.de [88.217.21.71]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Fri, 4 Nov 2016 17:00:28 +0100 (CET) Received: by igel.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id CFE172C2E5B; Fri, 4 Nov 2016 17:00:27 +0100 (CET) From: Andreas Schwab References: <87fun7v02h.fsf@xuchunyang.me> X-Yow: RHAPSODY in Glue! Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2016 17:00:27 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87fun7v02h.fsf@xuchunyang.me> (Chunyang Xu's message of "Fri, 04 Nov 2016 21:36:38 +0800") Message-ID: <87ins3ck10.fsf@linux-m68k.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On Nov 04 2016, Chunyang Xu wrote: > For example, I eval this in the *scratch* buffer: > > (read "( . 123)") > ⇒ 123 > > (read "(1 . ( . (3 . nil)))") > ⇒ (1 3) > > I can't find explanation about this behavior in elisp manual. Is it > expected? The Emacs Lisp reader has always worked that way. Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756 01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5 "And now for something completely different." From unknown Mon Aug 18 09:06:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24875: 26.0.50; In Dotted Pair Notation, the read function returns CDR if CAR is absent Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2016 16:01:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24875 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Chunyang Xu , 24875@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 24875-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24875.147827526225247 (code B ref 24875); Fri, 04 Nov 2016 16:01:03 +0000 Received: (at 24875) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Nov 2016 16:01:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44757 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c2gvO-0006Z5-Dl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 04 Nov 2016 12:01:02 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:33647) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c2gvN-0006Yb-8w for 24875@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 04 Nov 2016 12:01:01 -0400 Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id uA4G0sNH011482 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 4 Nov 2016 16:00:55 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id uA4G0sku008719 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 4 Nov 2016 16:00:54 GMT Received: from abhmp0019.oracle.com (abhmp0019.oracle.com [141.146.116.25]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id uA4G0rF4015602; Fri, 4 Nov 2016 16:00:54 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <59e3d2a7-03cb-4de3-9bc3-b35753073a4f@default> Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2016 09:00:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams References: <87fun7v02h.fsf@xuchunyang.me> In-Reply-To: <87fun7v02h.fsf@xuchunyang.me> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-Spam-Score: -4.6 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.6 (----) Indeed. This is not "normal" (usual) Lisp behavior. It seems quite bizarre - unexpected, to say the least. If this is intentional for Emacs Lisp then the Emacs-Lisp doc should both (1) describe this behavior and (2) give the rationale behind it. From unknown Mon Aug 18 09:06:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24875: 26.0.50; In Dotted Pair Notation, the read function returns CDR if CAR is absent Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 15:05:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24875 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 'Drew Adams' , Chunyang Xu , "24875@debbugs.gnu.org" <24875@debbugs.gnu.org> Received: via spool by 24875-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24875.16213502648790 (code B ref 24875); Tue, 18 May 2021 15:05:02 +0000 Received: (at 24875) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 May 2021 15:04:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56922 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lj1Gi-0002Hi-3C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 May 2021 11:04:24 -0400 Received: from aserp2130.oracle.com ([141.146.126.79]:39994) by debbugs.gnu.org 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In Dotted Pair Notation, the read function returns CDR if CAR is absent Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2021 15:33:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24875 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Chunyang Xu Cc: 24875@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier Received: via spool by 24875-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24875.162558555822367 (code B ref 24875); Tue, 06 Jul 2021 15:33:02 +0000 Received: (at 24875) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jul 2021 15:32:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49784 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m0n3u-0005oU-1N for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2021 11:32:38 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:41638) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m0n3s-0005jI-DW for 24875@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2021 11:32:37 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=oE0lG7rCuCnO2+VoxwjDrirNxg6BzB0mXYApEZGgwA0=; b=NnQUVQYv5XbbK2EOpPduPi/z9Z KjlZpyvlm30b4DwlVnfA/IRI4y8YqOSlZHrQ3A8Ba3nCCogHx7zOO5TgpmqWSkqYoy1hzOwnJ95zW TWbSDo6wLGKkVD0dMh0HNEg7n98wq2A7p5eu96IMiw14eWv3N2gWNjwyLj98DY0Sma/k=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m0n3i-0002Uo-Gn; Tue, 06 Jul 2021 17:32:29 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <87fun7v02h.fsf@xuchunyang.me> X-Now-Playing: Black Midi's _Live on Canal St, NYC_: "Live on Canal St, NYC" Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2021 17:32:26 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87fun7v02h.fsf@xuchunyang.me> (Chunyang Xu's message of "Fri, 04 Nov 2016 21:36:38 +0800") Message-ID: <87zguzpiet.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Chunyang Xu writes: > For example, I eval this in the *scratch* buffer: > > (read "( . 123)") > =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=87=92?= 123 > > (read "(1 . ( . (3 . nil)))") > =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=87=92?= (1 3) > > I can't find explanation about this behavior in elisp manual. Is i [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Chunyang Xu writes: > For example, I eval this in the *scratch* buffer: > > (read "( . 123)") > =E2=87=92 123 > > (read "(1 . ( . (3 . nil)))") > =E2=87=92 (1 3) > > I can't find explanation about this behavior in elisp manual. Is it > expected? That is indeed very eccentric behaviour, so we should probably mention it somewhere? (I guess we can't change it.) Anybody got an opinion here, or a way that we can describe it in the manual except pointing at the examples and then going =C2=AF\_(=E3=83=84)_/= =C2=AF? --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 06 11:32:41 2021 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jul 2021 15:32:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49787 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m0n3x-0005r0-8w for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2021 11:32:41 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:41650) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m0n3w-0005mT-9P for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2021 11:32:40 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=7WHFu5VOKMAI297RAjxGU//EKja8wD1tzQIVOKeYuBw=; b=rzccqARqsppn6JfXYhcPKW5yKS 4bOvCX9fu9Z6F/0MPWcVZkKgiFTli00PJGv/XXCi3BXECkr86S0ragT1TPg0xaGdLl40kffBehTII JNMwRvO4y8XUWQXjvfwDZUKnke53QA7b2GwLy07i6zLVZrA4BPj9C/QqHMhtctJZivI4=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m0n3o-0002Uv-N0 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2021 17:32:34 +0200 Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2021 17:32:32 +0200 Message-Id: <87y2ajpien.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #24875 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 24875 + moreinfo quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) tags 24875 + moreinfo quit From unknown Mon Aug 18 09:06:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24875: 26.0.50; In Dotted Pair Notation, the read function returns CDR if CAR is absent Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2021 16:45:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24875 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: moreinfo To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: Chunyang Xu , 24875@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 24875-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24875.162558985315254 (code B ref 24875); Tue, 06 Jul 2021 16:45:01 +0000 Received: (at 24875) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jul 2021 16:44:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49908 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m0oBB-0003xy-0u for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2021 12:44:13 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:4067) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m0oB9-0003xi-1O for 24875@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2021 12:44:11 -0400 Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 2376D441207; Tue, 6 Jul 2021 12:44:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id C8652440FDA; Tue, 6 Jul 2021 12:43:59 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1625589839; bh=2TxX8Lx8KJ7NY0/Ktz+xtyENl15bDN2ktENYFaGEc0o=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=cJqFQLZYKp6tbC2urH2NJpWCaZuldCUhbj0ga3Q+yFXmpArkapBVLuqAw+9fsyQnG 47fNGwMsJG2C5ubLk3fA6C1y0aNxVp/55vV1tVpOyD1U+cc7U7HpYqhnJ3iNSxFx72 KrhLQs5hzivbIo6KjBta1QtX2uvSbtba9gFU1H54DKA/SMNMJM9YLGjt52SdUbk9Nt to0VomG7fya8/iz4A1eLBsQKANJJMJnZlGeQaiaVmR1QkWa8FCmGg1Sqe7kuj+PSpX KmMuOiPaY4dNo2G+GqIHBMjtahLHfAxVy0PfTpzRtpui2QBGhTjCrmUkbtMoZKnve2 JxumbJw34Xqxw== Received: from alfajor (unknown [45.72.205.238]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 94110120520; Tue, 6 Jul 2021 12:43:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <87fun7v02h.fsf@xuchunyang.me> <87zguzpiet.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2021 12:43:58 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87zguzpiet.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Tue, 06 Jul 2021 17:32:26 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL -0.037 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Lars Ingebrigtsen [2021-07-06 17:32:26] wrote: > Chunyang Xu writes: > >> For example, I eval this in the *scratch* buffer: >> >> (read "( . 123)") >> =E2=87=92 123 >> >> (read "(1 . ( . (3 . nil)))") >> =E2=87=92 (1 3) >> >> I can't find explanation about this behavior in elisp manual. Is it >> expected? > > That is indeed very eccentric behaviour, so we should probably mention > it somewhere? (I guess we can't change it.) > > Anybody got an opinion here, or a way that we can describe it in the > manual except pointing at the examples and then going =C2=AF\_(=E3=83=84)= _/=C2=AF? It's the "natural" behavior if you start from (Ea . Ed) as the notation for cons cells and extend it to (E1 E2 E3 .. . Ed) such that (E1 {foo} . Ed) =3D (E1 . ({foo} . Ed)) because then you replace `{foo}` with the empty sequence and you get: (E1 . Ed) =3D (E1 . ( . Ed)) and hence Ed =3D ( . Ed) It's not used very often, so in theory we could potentially change it, but I haven't seen any good alternative interpretation for it, and I don't see the benefit of signaling an error. Stefan From unknown Mon Aug 18 09:06:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#24875: 26.0.50; In Dotted Pair Notation, the read function returns CDR if CAR is absent Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2021 17:16:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24875 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: moreinfo To: Stefan Monnier Cc: Chunyang Xu , 24875@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 24875-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24875.162559172226670 (code B ref 24875); Tue, 06 Jul 2021 17:16:01 +0000 Received: (at 24875) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jul 2021 17:15:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49962 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m0ofK-0006w6-0d for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2021 13:15:22 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:42724) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m0ofI-0006vo-2U for 24875@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2021 13:15:21 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=NxUVYJFPbEMPTdAaPp/V77E0dytuAptoG3Fne13vgUA=; b=nHlGw17j3iL/yg/HLlUveSwOhD /+FcpXeWd3x0vNW95c7xk/joBlKWni0awvaMi7o7auhFU2rX8EGLWv30wgdH1Xj4l1EydCacPxt13 eqXRfTPJRgJWOPvNzRhhgBOelDwEz3J2YPjS8GJIv9+QcGWkBeH7HTxnN8RMp/X/19lY=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m0of8-0003Ml-4u; Tue, 06 Jul 2021 19:15:12 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <87fun7v02h.fsf@xuchunyang.me> <87zguzpiet.fsf@gnus.org> X-Now-Playing: FKA Twigs's _Magdalene_: "Mary Magdalene" Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2021 19:15:09 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Tue, 06 Jul 2021 12:43:58 -0400") Message-ID: <8735srqs82.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Monnier writes: > It's the "natural" behavior if you start from > > (Ea . Ed) > > as the notation for cons cells and extend it to > > (E1 E2 E3 .. . Ed) > > such that > > (E1 {foo} . Ed) = (E1 . ({foo} . Ed)) > > bec [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Stefan Monnier writes: > It's the "natural" behavior if you start from > > (Ea . Ed) > > as the notation for cons cells and extend it to > > (E1 E2 E3 .. . Ed) > > such that > > (E1 {foo} . Ed) = (E1 . ({foo} . Ed)) > > because then you replace `{foo}` with the empty sequence and you get: > > (E1 . Ed) = (E1 . ( . Ed)) > > and hence > > Ed = ( . Ed) > > It's not used very often, so in theory we could potentially change it, > but I haven't seen any good alternative interpretation for it, and > I don't see the benefit of signaling an error. Ah, I see! Thanks for the explanation -- I now taken a stab at finding a place in the Lisp manual to explain this (and explaining it slightly shorter). Feel free to adjust as required. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 06 13:15:26 2021 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jul 2021 17:15:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49965 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m0ofO-0006wP-7t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2021 13:15:26 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:42740) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m0ofM-0006vx-5s for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2021 13:15:24 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=u94s6/m9JYxnEc4zxi4ewMHjJ5CpQrWcQ1ZfZyl0RL4=; b=KUt1rZgpuMlTJL4K/yFK/P80Rt gKD38Og/3zqKW8xZ6jr5d0722mIjUr1oXTV20VEDi0+3d2oQr9X34tC61oSyUlGdMAorBhFNqwmv0 A0dXnZzcspL+dRVOi7kcKHZ/65I0ZgdKrH1CtGnanUz073nePawx0cIiB3xtVMjZX/xI=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m0ofE-0003Mu-Dc for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2021 19:15:18 +0200 Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2021 19:15:16 +0200 Message-Id: <871r8bqs7v.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #24875 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: close 24875 28.1 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) close 24875 28.1 quit