From unknown Sat Jun 14 18:43:50 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#24860 <24860@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#24860 <24860@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 24.5; doc string of `transpose-sexps' Reply-To: bug#24860 <24860@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2025 01:43:50 +0000 retitle 24860 24.5; doc string of `transpose-sexps' reassign 24860 emacs submitter 24860 Drew Adams severity 24860 minor thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Nov 02 14:09:14 2016 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Nov 2016 18:09:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40857 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c1zyL-00050z-VD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Nov 2016 14:09:14 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45363) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c1zyJ-00050m-K5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Nov 2016 14:09:12 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c1zyD-0007j8-Go for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Nov 2016 14:09:06 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:54467) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c1zyD-0007j1-Dc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Nov 2016 14:09:05 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36333) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c1zyC-0001VQ-FD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Nov 2016 14:09:05 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c1zy9-0007iA-8O for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Nov 2016 14:09:04 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:31883) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c1zy9-0007hu-0b for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Nov 2016 14:09:01 -0400 Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id uA2I8ufk012460 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 2 Nov 2016 18:08:58 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id uA2I8uSk025917 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 2 Nov 2016 18:08:56 GMT Received: from abhmp0016.oracle.com (abhmp0016.oracle.com [141.146.116.22]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id uA2I8thO002209 for ; Wed, 2 Nov 2016 18:08:55 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <51926a3e-1aa2-417c-b354-ce0bb6499ba5@default> Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 11:08:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.5; doc string of `transpose-sexps' X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) 1. This part of the doc string is unclear. I have no idea what it is really trying to say. Does not work on a sexp that point is in the middle of if it is a list or string. What does "does not work" mean? Raises an error? Does something that we cannot describe? Does nothing? When point is in the middle of a list it can also be between two sexps, which themselves could be lists: ((foo)|(bar)), with point at |. What "does not work" in that case, with an ARG of 1? This part of the doc is completely unclear. What's more, it is not mentioned in the Emacs manual (node `Expressions'). 2. The doc string needs to say, as does the manual (node `Expressions'), that a zero ARG has particular behavior (and describe it) - it is not a no-op. 3. I think it would help for the manual (node `Expressions') to give a simple example showing the usefulness of the zero ARG case. It's not too clear from the description why this behavior is provided. In GNU Emacs 24.5.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2015-04-11 on LEG570 Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --prefix=3D/c/usr --host=3Di686-pc-mingw32' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Nov 04 05:58:01 2016 Received: (at 24860-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Nov 2016 09:58:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43278 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c2bG5-0002e9-3Y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 04 Nov 2016 05:58:01 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:53808) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c2bG4-0002dw-7s for 24860-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 04 Nov 2016 05:58:00 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c2bFt-0002dq-WD for 24860-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 04 Nov 2016 05:57:54 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:51304) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c2bFt-0002de-S0; Fri, 04 Nov 2016 05:57:49 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2176 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1c2bFt-0000eb-05; Fri, 04 Nov 2016 05:57:49 -0400 Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2016 11:58:11 +0200 Message-Id: <8360o3lg7g.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: <51926a3e-1aa2-417c-b354-ce0bb6499ba5@default> (message from Drew Adams on Wed, 2 Nov 2016 11:08:54 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#24860: 24.5; doc string of `transpose-sexps' References: <51926a3e-1aa2-417c-b354-ce0bb6499ba5@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -7.3 (-------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24860-done Cc: 24860-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -7.3 (-------) > Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 11:08:54 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > > 1. This part of the doc string is unclear. I have no idea what it is > really trying to say. > > Does not work on a sexp that point is in the middle of > if it is a list or string. > > What does "does not work" mean? Raises an error? Does something that > we cannot describe? Does nothing? Depending on what are the surrounding sexps and where point is, it could do any of the above. > When point is in the middle of a list it can also be between two sexps, > which themselves could be lists: ((foo)|(bar)), with point at |. What > "does not work" in that case, with an ARG of 1? > > This part of the doc is completely unclear. Since the doc string starts by saying "Like M-t", its intent was to contrast the behavior against that of transpose-words, where point could be both between the words and in the middle of a word, in order to have that word transposed with the next one. That doesn't work with sexps. > What's more, it is not mentioned in the Emacs manual (node > `Expressions'). It is mentioned, in a way, because the manual says C-M-t is analogous to C-t, i.e. it doesn't start from M-t. I clarified this aspect in the doc string. > 2. The doc string needs to say, as does the manual (node `Expressions'), > that a zero ARG has particular behavior (and describe it) - it is not a > no-op. Added. > 3. I think it would help for the manual (node `Expressions') to give a > simple example showing the usefulness of the zero ARG case. It's not > too clear from the description why this behavior is provided. Volunteers are welcome to come up with useful examples, but I think the bug report can now be closed, as the zero argument case doesn't have examples in other similar commands as well. Thanks. From unknown Sat Jun 14 18:43:50 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2016 12:24:03 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator