From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 23 12:20:31 2016 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Oct 2016 16:20:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49265 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1byLVe-0001rr-SP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Oct 2016 12:20:31 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:41128) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1byLVd-0001rg-SR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Oct 2016 12:20:30 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1byLVX-0000Q3-LL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Oct 2016 12:20:24 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:33261) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1byLVX-0000Pw-Il for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Oct 2016 12:20:23 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60326) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1byLVW-0002Bf-9E for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Oct 2016 12:20:23 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1byLVT-0000PI-3I for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Oct 2016 12:20:22 -0400 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.17.24]:61513) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1byLVS-0000Or-Nz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Oct 2016 12:20:19 -0400 Received: from [192.168.178.35] ([77.12.86.70]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue102) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MhDFZ-1cKZBx0aW1-00MOqa for ; Sun, 23 Oct 2016 18:20:16 +0200 To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: =?UTF-8?Q?Andreas_R=c3=b6hler?= Subject: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands Message-ID: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2016 18:28:10 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:LHf2Xvtn+XwEwWCRT8LFIcGi4nZAx/xhPhXF0KkBpAvF2m60TE+ amJoeBKFANezO0RvR318zNVHj/9Rh8aEgYXMYS6858qccrKu8UFwN5MMnT7UJTRV1D0DLPp MpXODRUxwtjqxIDrbHrEViKTakNsAc8YoGJ/gOW56EAQ+LLPh5YdvYc3k+XXWwxSTWDSy6i EfCTONvaYFEUO+4QTT9NQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:3sthAfhL1co=:zql3f6YQ0pJHUFxNnDVcx/ EjWzEGZKEVO4OoOT1Kp9j9bGpejVq1V+2XNpvHk45YDC5kPZ3BE0+m8e6TD01DImmbnXOO9TG MMFmt2Lq3zlH+4P3/++hfTMq/XhQYytF3J7QDAgGTNW4ehgQsLPAFC40c/46nRHjpFXAFuBU+ hifmCHXeKraNMgTFUk/itoJWCbAcTlDUatltBMibng2vaF1n/EizeK3DoztOvMJANP6dS6s7Z LS48RjMNEyD39dLSW9Vbf9QsCnB8W1gMDhbGBuwfH5khLwLHwv0VgnqJlDnBuK4UsJrOzgdT5 Ye4/RyFRDqZBcbLwlb85r6mpZQl6et2NDd24Tm9wMW/xA+2qUq4HiOsnsWSiwb4teiZwt6H07 4PHIX/megJfvbZNpKk63/dUhqhgtH+oHCCfRrERtDPKR8hFPPjTQbRlJ4ElbUP1Iz5TJXGPcx n3GvwObZyOZS03tKYJjaouY4z4ibeZZ5PGG9cIh4L/3bTOlRGe7AL/XA24ZsLgV6kGrglz/8w p4k+yaSeRPMZjazdyHi465V+bi6/d1OMxDXoDgwDUiTJrqA9bVd4o7hfoSAM4nxeB8d5ZX47x 0AVEIgh/r6tDJjXFLht1jYJSXk/YybAFQ2cqqjJVeUrxFVr7BvkHw4ae9kfcpoPRy3jU70nv5 Ocr1oh0LShYAUF7tdYKruPEX1xlg6QtHS4ORpSUrnrymlkQ1gR26eg6YY7h0Wn5+AqETwQX+2 M3nDEoYzKFkLRMtA X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Hi, think it would be a gain if Emacs-lisp menu displays navigation commands. Thanks, Andreas GNU Emacs 26.0.50.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.14.5) of 2016-10-11 Recent messages: For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a. (New file) Configured features: XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG SOUND GPM DBUS GSETTINGS NOTIFY ACL GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE M17N_FLT LIBOTF XFT ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11 Important settings: value of $LANG: de_DE.utf8 value of $XMODIFIERS: @im=ibus locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: Emacs-Lisp Minor modes in effect: tooltip-mode: t global-eldoc-mode: t electric-indent-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t line-number-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t Load-path shadows: None found. Features: (shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug message subr-x puny seq byte-opt gv bytecomp byte-compile cl-extra help-mode cconv cl-loaddefs pcase cl-lib dired dired-loaddefs format-spec rfc822 mml easymenu mml-sec password-cache epa derived epg epg-config gnus-util rmail rmail-loaddefs mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils time-date mule-util tooltip eldoc electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel term/x-win x-win term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list newcomment elisp-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core term/tty-colors frame cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese charscript case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev obarray minibuffer cl-preloaded nadvice loaddefs button faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote dbusbind inotify dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty make-network-process emacs) Memory information: ((conses 8 169065 8354) (symbols 24 38597 0) (miscs 20 41 160) (strings 16 53551 4976) (string-bytes 1 873524) (vectors 8 13713) (vector-slots 4 474922 6778) (floats 8 183 30) (intervals 28 197 8) (buffers 520 12) (heap 1024 18127 894)) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 27 09:18:35 2019 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jul 2019 13:18:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43890 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hrMap-0002VG-6S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jul 2019 09:18:35 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]:38254) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hrMan-0002V8-FN for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jul 2019 09:18:33 -0400 Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=marnie) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hrMak-0000wH-4G; Sat, 27 Jul 2019 15:18:32 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Andreas =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=B6hler?= Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2019 15:18:29 +0200 In-Reply-To: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> ("Andreas \=\?utf-8\?Q\?R\=C3\=B6hler\=22's\?\= message of "Sun, 23 Oct 2016 18:28:10 +0200") Message-ID: <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Andreas Röhler writes: > think it would be a gain if Emacs-lisp menu displays navigation commands. What kind of navigation commands? Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Andreas R=C3=B6hler writes: > think it would be a gain if Emacs-lisp menu displays navigation commands. What kind of navigation commands? --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 27 09:18:38 2019 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jul 2019 13:18:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43893 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hrMas-0002VW-Hw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jul 2019 09:18:38 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]:38268) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hrMaq-0002VO-Tz for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jul 2019 09:18:37 -0400 Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=marnie) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hrMao-0000wO-DZ for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jul 2019 15:18:36 +0200 Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2019 15:18:34 +0200 Message-Id: <87pnlvhaz9.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #24774 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 24774 + moreinfo quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 24774 + moreinfo quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 30 03:52:19 2019 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Jul 2019 07:52:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49488 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hsMvj-0003wl-Ht for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 03:52:19 -0400 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.131]:49785) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hsMve-0003wU-94 for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 03:52:17 -0400 Received: from [192.168.178.39] ([87.123.193.188]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue009 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MAfQe-1hhLMk3nMe-00B3To; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 09:52:07 +0200 Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands To: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Andreas_R=c3=b6hler?= Message-ID: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 09:54:24 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:Kl8jKjQ/gOUhrFCEvpe3Yy0dpJSkBxwuMKVY9S4MdBjy65rFJxq b8Rq9X1/baBEdMbwcc2/atRgg49QDIrIQWLSt0TJSyJzoXtvrM2rjdAeAnJ4X94TJaPX6TP YbYbPAqujjQRoQMar0EC7p2M/Jl3QMakY36TtVtETwvmufM18jLg69zAorMviMP46DjA1RE sOQCPGmYcVC0Lfm39lwDw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:V9CMnavFrUA=:h5hWXJ73MBh9D3elKpd/i9 CpbDxe/A2cpqHEEjxGcM/Z6ZFayzscW5NQKTMHsb7Mf5/NTrbbv+cXUs5z/QDQYOsS1Qxmxd/ Zww3SnlkHomMoQP2MW4ptaGRqDwYbo7zbMUXgy//KuqpDnS2G5CF+ZWmz5bhAf0//dcqTTNI0 QwkkzOWj5bxQMy+IikEqfu44RNK+ZnzKRB6P8nIwd/ks0d5KkFjx09aPkw/UirEnxHQd+hmA6 xQmBRr4grsDhTI6OZQZq5JFLLAWRdfQVY9QXXWEWFeeKwyhrQiE2y5L/wk0bZR/3/SzrBr3Az u1MiLVwLxZpDk1byIH+goJPrb/Ur0MaOy263gmpQsiDdkTbGo+RuDE/Ud803IHzW+SjCUBV+B OB7kI4vfKjrqSF/tKjB5yHpvfBSCvwtGHWLf1F+34TzNUTJvcPoKAxOGKQ5vSzq2RjsPqGh/Y mYkVyJ3NdM+tyTgd7g8PzHOCvh8v+6lrIMAjuPCbyu0rTXfUNbdBLgWIegwmlhAkAqT1zGtQS nOZAGvl5MMTcvgjAXXPJT1Ku0PdIO2rHP+8nioO3rSWIBYzn0FuP7LgGCLZMNP64TgK7lcqXK BHTk9oe+f4mahqkCgyEzRWT6u9fby0yer2AWHIw4kMZI0GXgQE9MDzMOijm0w/xK3PyPqNCN9 DbMRPVueMYtd80KxophjMhlCZ3NbbmMAqthu+aou1QCwUmyhnOyoih+8hqtEW1zG0UiBYkvD3 84qYv0dJSVOACtASRHmhN/9WPTKpD36xTi1cLEaPWbQhmqF+xwKAyod0IthksjIY2c8dHFs0l 8yJqQi0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 27.07.19 15:18, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Andreas Röhler writes: > >> think it would be a gain if Emacs-lisp menu displays navigation commands. > What kind of navigation commands? > Stuff like beginning-of-defun, up-list, forward-sexp Thanks, Andreas From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 30 06:25:41 2019 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Jul 2019 10:25:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49605 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hsPK6-0003To-OH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 06:25:41 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]:58962) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hsPK3-0003TY-Nt for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 06:25:37 -0400 Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=stories) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hsPJy-0006hL-Dq; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 12:25:32 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Andreas =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=B6hler?= Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAD1BMVEX8+/fMx8H7+PL9/fr8 +vXtTQGyAAACQklEQVQ4jV1Ui5UkIQhklAT0NgBlCMA3dgCsTf4xXaEzu/fON59uCgqkUHLiHB/L lOec8d2LFjuMg5j+A6zZuHJYaI48h/1EiN90h6fHO48P8LyJxgCQCa/D7jcZOYUhwHhAumMfJJ9H WjR+c0+STT3LXvN3kdIVdX4AFP4D2Jg0RLqIoKr1AXwZN5ITYTkJ740CEPEF56byUqak+gaSu4mK BEjmiPjkUDUO69I2BiP0nyZmvItmc6SQn6oMfU1LlKTJhf/fljDb1YIMdMPl+Wk7u+sEE3zJQPUc b0Dtu8zUKN/qyRiSHIBlldIEhL7ZnvOVkeaipr30LxHDNiPRnWlsHUS+SxEpX1FZM8deCCEMoO82 KZiWJzh57OQCcBoIqytX7r5C3VcAdUeYq/S6ytfe43WAXqqob85+AGguDrdS1+q7iBIVYg4CCM8q rSIuXEQY+gbVYycnAKVXRCECQwXuh9TYyy6uBh8aaxgfe/wRpJdSj/ChM0Lktt54gn8XVStyiKdo CXfImQ5XlQ2IDloaG6ynYQDK7rFCQW/hHDznu5VsKLeRf/dt7XsT4a82olx7nLRhe0OUSdaCIsGS JPL0DUREDIg+guXYdg6L7sa09UOh8s4RydXAxvg9K0ZCITtm1xZh7Nwp7bTBHG0HgJOJ+c88k0N1 nG8VCAXPiakmhm7L+R44CEkwPhvARcI88iuGFFa/MT7ZHWG4NAamKW6CJXEOL6LLeF8H+3YYuFgU SuQUJ8rjiGA06XqNkb0lOK2/S2GbPGwPyu4AAAAASUVORK5CYII= Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 12:25:30 +0200 In-Reply-To: ("Andreas \=\?utf-8\?Q\?R\=C3\=B6hler\=22's\?\= message of "Tue, 30 Jul 2019 09:54:24 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Andreas Röhler writes: > On 27.07.19 15:18, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: >> Andreas Röhler writes: >> >>> think it would be a gain if Emacs-lisp menu displays navigation commands. >> What kind o [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Andreas R=C3=B6hler writes: > On 27.07.19 15:18, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: >> Andreas R=C3=B6hler writes: >> >>> think it would be a gain if Emacs-lisp menu displays navigation command= s. >> What kind of navigation commands? > > Stuff like beginning-of-defun, up-list, forward-sexp Oh, sexp-based navigation commands. Yes, I think that's a good idea -- it'll make them more discoverable for new users. I think both an "Editing" sub-menu (`kill-sexp' etc) as well as a "Navigation" menu would be nice. Eep! (bindings--define-key menu-map [separator-format] menu-bar-separator) (bindings--define-key menu-map [comment-region] '(menu-item "Comment Out Region" comment-region :help "Comment or uncomment each line in the region" :enable mark-active)) (bindings--define-key menu-map [indent-region] '(menu-item "Indent Region" indent-region :help "Indent each nonblank line in the region" :enable mark-active)) (ad nauseam). elisp-mode.el doesn't use easy-menu, so every creating menus there is so. much. typing. And the file is dumped with Emacs, so I'm guessing requiring easy-menu and doing a rewrite wouldn't be welcome? So while I agree that these sub-menus should be added, I think I'll leave that to somebody else... --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Aug 11 22:46:58 2019 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Aug 2019 02:46:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46008 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hx0ML-0003AB-B6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2019 22:46:58 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f175.google.com ([209.85.214.175]:45670) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hx0MJ-00034H-Mk for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2019 22:46:56 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f175.google.com with SMTP id y8so5201623plr.12 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2019 19:46:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=2L3hSEnedLk5ttzG7PJyoLJBSsgskq7JpdTmlYkTpLM=; b=V1EiT7ACJpzRvh9vwqBFNuzP/t2m8eOADkqjXGgolWuPCfeVF4t1NP+7QAllP/1al3 2OpEZA4aylX+Dpyzx4Wb7HtwpiloJUS+kzCtlTBsP55dlv6yPaVgFaud+QPl+GisfMnQ 85yx36I7nOZt7FCZ/WQ4TR905ZIGf8pRVSsAsXpolh+D7l5LE1z0r9AiTnRs4FGb+jMP RE5LBONwuIrHdO/YaBcR+Aa7ahVtLT11Q4Na8u0xbi4L1EHId8epfrmTrJTUMvrwKjeo alxIMeK9QdtW3/LZmuLEZV5Bz11pJ19DBh6mzJ4klx+lEg8Uxn/8XDsTggE0+MxcIzwT 9fdw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXWzmsUK2V/NAGaIz9Uz3NcvPzMOI277bwot2LJRJcS6oDfxuku HQO1j9ivt98KUE3gUUfTQY7tZMwYuAOONq51YQ/74oYScOw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzLUnbW/QFiB8O+Q1l5dsaHWCYg8sDascQ6RA6zxL9c+k7RtgPjmXZuuYtrtL4Xax8CGowxUyalmHX7c4nlknk= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:29eb:: with SMTP id h98mr7173050plb.128.1565578009789; Sun, 11 Aug 2019 19:46:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stefan Kangas Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 04:46:39 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: tags 24774 - moreinfo To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) tags 24774 - moreinfo quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 11 20:58:34 2020 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Aug 2020 00:58:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42142 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k5f6A-000797-LF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Aug 2020 20:58:34 -0400 Received: from mail-yb1-f176.google.com ([209.85.219.176]:41985) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k5f65-00078n-L7 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Aug 2020 20:58:33 -0400 Received: by mail-yb1-f176.google.com with SMTP id a34so441132ybj.9 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2020 17:58:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=+nu6HUgDY2qgo0LnLm45/Ym76qbv3xDBqfqW9kdE4Go=; b=nO4s81RsD9/ylqjnwlkyRaGrS0qyVH7XTjPUXwaF5PBC9AXbU1SgnLUuDjIUbINiNv i9Vnbzku1igfgy3gKt+KdsSlCvfwnFg/xImY5+2/NY32N7IO/MVUEPygfec3/t3cMVRM 03ato+eUqqhZ4yoEkWnBHYkRWowtk1Pwe4uAvU3XuB6zahh1k1POS6+jEpfMXyDdR8zH W4NPFH5OX6d7g0n/YcUTz3vVRNPI6AYKm+ESLCuuNxJiJYWC6TvYR4oeXCnMczwh9B1S 7KJlHBoGPkoxx3Y2NNqbVk4pBXzUJqXUA/ug8Y2OBX1Q8EmwM3kOghkkS6NWq5Ln+veT iCeg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531d6ZLQ9SappIxQ778fejRAs4nSN1mzXFQZGZ4pB7Ncz4I3Zrw3 bK+F2+wDpQvijxzM82YQpoexW70uITyByxp+vYOObL8RVdeFFQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzFOfqGWwtph3v8oJjdb7XcXZBq4rCv7CB5ytLI7AyWLW+NpQZYF5NlbsvNUFek+bXaBBqC8ApP5UlO4/qGEgI= X-Received: by 2002:a25:4609:: with SMTP id t9mr49629215yba.231.1597193903775; Tue, 11 Aug 2020 17:58:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stefan Kangas Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 02:58:10 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: To: control Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. 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Content preview: tags 24774 + easy thanks Content analysis details: (2.0 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2) [209.85.219.176 listed in wl.mailspike.net] -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [209.85.219.176 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail domains are different 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (stefankangas[at]gmail.com) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 PDS_TONAME_EQ_TOLOCAL_VSHORT Very short body and From looks like 2 different emails 0.0 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different 2.0 BLANK_SUBJECT Subject is present but empty -1.0 MAILING_LIST_MULTI Multiple indicators imply a widely-seen list manager tags 24774 + easy thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Nov 18 10:35:04 2020 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Nov 2020 15:35:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36154 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kfPU8-0007Tx-1J for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 10:35:04 -0500 Received: from mail-ej1-f42.google.com ([209.85.218.42]:46532) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kfPU5-0007TN-IQ for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 10:35:02 -0500 Received: by mail-ej1-f42.google.com with SMTP id w13so3302368eju.13 for <24774@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 07:35:01 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=RsKrnOwqllyeRJDKIQcY33uxdHzj8N9IOFgDO0cPLJQ=; b=STGQnoo95rU9Tb9Rf0igsIqeY/oLK90wF1Ke7Z7tOGPwflD/1m6koxGlgrM0XxN6m2 4hXThlWmp8LYAS9kL9gmrwhQP4pmA6pSEjEqyDfp4G/XiXrKuy16r27fFOGc7NKuMma6 Oex7UiDh17ySasKFrilgqhKyaWzYhBKACuQ0+LST2aGhT8+0JBD9eXulSTlyf7F9LDW/ pQd0+FbnmdhFGKYQ4WnJWdhkYfdc3dbDv9Bis3EWnmAV3/ELLZIennrjCkQ6tppjlBQr muLgnvc3lpxcouKxPlUd/CI7WZ5eGWwZqVp22xL8nXzH3VqnwkyTOE10INVg2KKU7le4 g3nQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531iGd+mJ76TDCV8UyLhRlxrORBx1xaTkNZbE9/2cDJ4amh1W1mo UR5hHkSs8pXAb6VJJ9tMo4s6NATNanqYnDYDSXc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzF3VLQCF/4ILrBqVICnDnGA0/7G1N2nKujOej4b9OSwCZqTw7RjCBmD8qiEaAma5qu9PRYJbvodvkxHgtwgaw= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:804:: with SMTP id e4mr23420472ejd.420.1605713695742; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 07:34:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 07:34:55 -0800 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Tue, 30 Jul 2019 12:25:30 +0200") References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 07:34:55 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Andreas_R=C3=B6hler?= , 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: >> Stuff like beginning-of-defun, up-list, forward-sexp > > Oh, sexp-based navigation commands. Yes, I think that's a good idea -- > it'll make them more discoverable for new users. I think both an > "Editing" sub-menu (`kill-sexp' etc) as well as a "Navigation" menu > would be nice. > > Eep! > > (bindings--define-key menu-map [separator-format] menu-bar-separator) > (bindings--define-key menu-map [comment-region] > '(menu-item "Comment Out Region" comment-region > :help "Comment or uncomment each line in the region" > :enable mark-active)) > (bindings--define-key menu-map [indent-region] > '(menu-item "Indent Region" indent-region > :help "Indent each nonblank line in the region" > :enable mark-active)) > > (ad nauseam). elisp-mode.el doesn't use easy-menu, so every creating > menus there is so. much. typing. And the file is dumped with Emacs, so > I'm guessing requiring easy-menu and doing a rewrite wouldn't be > welcome? > > So while I agree that these sub-menus should be added, I think I'll > leave that to somebody else... Is preloading easy-menu.el excluded? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Nov 18 16:09:16 2020 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Nov 2020 21:09:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36652 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kfUhX-0003BP-T4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 16:09:16 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:33628) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kfUhV-0003BC-T2 for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 16:09:14 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=yDOJPNTVjiin0099iorDNnb4+7RbbhfT8LP8rpInt/c=; b=gtpneIyX3pSVzPS3NLY710iJjp 6egK8UzlfgjxpHsgZVwuQoJZIxbOxbWPOOIiqXUJ7nLL+tR/L7/+96YtUSpXzco5nHdwF7rRcOUxE ATsI4fMAyiSc98BuNVy4OtPp9ml6iRALqncArbAn2QeU/5MeKhRqCWlgusAd1ltIwnM4=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kfUhM-0008R5-UM; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 22:09:07 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAElBMVEX8+/vW1dCBgH2k pKAvLy7////oFO5WAAAAAWJLR0QF+G/pxwAAAAd0SU1FB+QLEhUFJeBfHKgAAAG1SURBVDjLjZOJ kcMgDEXBTgEIXEAMFMBVQCzTf00rceTwbHaWmYyDnz/6EpIQ/1/qstdBSQkgY7iAlHbtnNVXgcg6 GJuTvYIMRkGWEP9jY80xZ0sru5T76rqtvpbvD7yCY/sC9g/F7QVy/QK2+stRJ/30b4pIe/MGzDdQ 1ABA+7W5OhMn6BtAz1Zx8ZZNJ8eK0BQYPaW9RqnrITwfle4DyCrrcpem3kFrNjtigNj21R+QUUA5 WKG2HlFoByaBDkL7FkP1rE7jhZDGFrVg6nafRdyJWJeavOWBdqRF9lc7E5Qt84EcCOPINwPLrh4C Fv7QIhHdgHQMQi8yyooQM+lnSVozlWo1lcXZGhMpIgEczVi0N1y2kEaMczRSQQAuYyjjoo7Z5NSK icBjgsez+yXlTnH8AHcGjUhgcExA79a9zwUBqsgA2LJwbWOyx4q1/V9QUjq+HSgo9jnBDYOQdOXN NN0Nl7crHFKc07cdlazMhlvoWbi2oQP/Aj72S5SzXz9a1L+Nz94V3pJ3fJur2sHNRjM+Vy0/6uM+ BrsyoyFoLsE8g69GSHqTrHVtYnmI/xjyOdPX9QO11JDp1iWmXAAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUA MjAyMC0xMS0xOFQyMTowNTozNyswMDowMNtVZuEAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjAtMTEt MThUMjE6MDU6MzcrMDA6MDCqCN5dAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: The Normal's _Warm Leatherette_: "Warm Leatherette" Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 22:09:03 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Wed, 18 Nov 2020 07:34:55 -0800") Message-ID: <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Kangas writes: > Is preloading easy-menu.el excluded? If I do an "emacs -Q", then it turns out that easymenu.el is already present, so I think something is already loading it (even if it's not explicitly mentioned by lisp/loadup.el). Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: Andreas =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=B6hler?= , 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Kangas writes: > Is preloading easy-menu.el excluded? If I do an "emacs -Q", then it turns out that easymenu.el is already present, so I think something is already loading it (even if it's not explicitly mentioned by lisp/loadup.el). So rewriting the emacs-lisp menus using easymenu should be uncontroversial. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Nov 18 17:03:37 2020 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Nov 2020 22:03:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36790 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kfVY9-0006il-78 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 17:03:37 -0500 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:49914) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kfVY6-0006iW-OC for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 17:03:36 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0AILtXh2118112; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 22:03:28 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=5BgZBDNXrIygYBEyNwwmG+7gN3Z4wcW/22Ly5rz13Rk=; b=tGADOlQECX9cDg83MtfkaWe42ooyGFPiUrucyylYpmqdfBumW8syiVDmeA1PXdMoUAvL K/e3KdMOLrZq79XSW65BzU+671ZE/ZPgfitqTMmk9ckBWjsh5aBNFJGiPyJqGMbl8rue 772duNjsjDN/PJIa7Ba70q5WSCjySzZhpFww4boiXzTmvYh0k80TQJWwTBWn289S5kDw cKlEJld3NAZZnxYr/rGLy7+PAfLElFtJ2ScI/CNd3PpsbVgVlC3NlTG7aJa3v8k8iC1P M+vjN35lqVAdbuSN/7Z7OtApo6zThUWXXvRgde2Bw9JDTHBRuiKYcc94A2WZZOGfzcOf Tg== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 34t76m2g96-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 18 Nov 2020 22:03:28 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0AIM1KhI114415; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 22:01:28 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 34umd1554k-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 18 Nov 2020 22:01:28 +0000 Received: from abhmp0014.oracle.com (abhmp0014.oracle.com [141.146.116.20]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 0AIM1Q7F017455; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 22:01:26 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <17ec1774-a258-4f4b-ad29-59a71270f4fe@default> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 14:01:25 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Stefan Kangas Subject: RE: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5071.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9809 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2011180151 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9809 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 priorityscore=1501 bulkscore=0 clxscore=1011 mlxlogscore=999 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2011180150 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > So rewriting the emacs-lisp menus using easymenu should be > uncontroversial. Really? _Why_ rewrite them? And easy-menu doesn't offer all that an "extended menu item' offers. What would be the point of rewriting to use easy-menu. I actually find easy-menu harder to work with, FWIW. It's too monolithic. Ordinary menu bindings are individual, essentially independent. The easy-menu functions seem too all-or-nothing. (I'm no expert on easy-menu, so some of my view of it might be mistaken. It just seems to me more of a pain than a help, when trying to adapt or adjust some "easy" menu that already exists.) And what on earth does rewriting Elisp menus to use easy-menu have to do with this bug? This sounds like a solution (something you're perhaps more used to) in search of a problem. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Nov 18 17:16:40 2020 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Nov 2020 22:16:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36853 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kfVkl-0008Vv-Q2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 17:16:40 -0500 Received: from mail-ed1-f53.google.com ([209.85.208.53]:41341) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kfVkk-0008Q5-4X for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 17:16:38 -0500 Received: by mail-ed1-f53.google.com with SMTP id t9so3692228edq.8 for <24774@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 14:16:38 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=YMnIw4fD+Q4BWYmdOaxpGVjYh70TozSazPeKAZXpPJ8=; b=WQEKNLueUB1GvO6IFyGOMrbm9IeJ9duMiAk3wQj7yIW1qOyW3SqLIY5iUAaOYFeqMq VuIlc+eUrvNePm4HhgNsJnUZdCs1lAUPEShBmvJfRMWElYN4zC1VGyq0BBxgBabUxuT2 FQp0zPnHafUZsj1+Ot5j0KxMggAFItrOy+DEtV7/l8iN7Iu5hPRLZfFKEtoYKFkDK0Rz XjXq750X6xB43oS++edIvNUubqdUlT279fSbK+CBo9ia0cYsdKOKrj4z3H4ikHQsNsto p+hxIHdde93OfGLCAlOMxji1sBrR1VMX4YeWEEvkeNbDf+tJZjPuj6nqbcRNDX24xj4P U1sA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53197SCfD9QsqIhjdp6YLcWYyOX4ovUNdZrxZD2wBJMosfLnXppT t6cRywJ+VfuAAuJoJcdOE8fyAJKWG+77E8pH2uA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxuoQiygB3Y1jBNbHeDl12371UG7AzjpEOtQqFoa1rxScdkMn8xrd4Og7Kr7Tgqp6oqFxQTgRqNDFLjawKDZec= X-Received: by 2002:a50:9f61:: with SMTP id b88mr29208864edf.282.1605737792372; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 14:16:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 14:16:31 -0800 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <17ec1774-a258-4f4b-ad29-59a71270f4fe@default> References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <17ec1774-a258-4f4b-ad29-59a71270f4fe@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 14:16:31 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: RE: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands To: Drew Adams , Lars Ingebrigtsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Drew Adams writes: >> So rewriting the emacs-lisp menus using easymenu should be >> uncontroversial. > > Really? _Why_ rewrite them? They would be easier to read, understand and change. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Nov 18 18:16:19 2020 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Nov 2020 23:16:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37050 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kfWgU-0002Mo-PL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 18:16:19 -0500 Received: from aserp2130.oracle.com ([141.146.126.79]:48268) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kfWgR-0002MZ-5t for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 18:16:17 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0AINEIHq124488; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 23:16:08 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=1oLMtEd+KaPzTg+gU06wajFjsXhsKnYScsSXnckDY18=; b=pnsXxuULrjLt0PHo6vjPdPK89DWAQbEDsrZ8GOrXx848QHU6Y0JLAxl991F3j+o7q9ed ngSEAO87UYe9z/fdELhdGsoYHnECfpbyguzRDDSZztrlu2kken0S1gP9paPqYGDrNl7K F1cbpCWZUVVVZDWBVsMMNqhE9dBqkGPYW9ROqVnHNuHwH7NxNq9HKFHDOss7tsbatlYy llNMKcD9rsysE+r8fE1DDgpnT3u3meBeFSZw1l7uj1Ew7VcJaDc151gz7k1DXJvzpLTm v0Cl9RFJV0h0i7q20G2GHagbbawQZxKqcWxGQGXBtdQhzK60txWvYebti6LoxPIp0KzD xA== Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by aserp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 34t4rb2ucy-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 18 Nov 2020 23:16:08 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0AINEadD006236; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 23:16:07 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 34ts5y5c5f-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 18 Nov 2020 23:16:07 +0000 Received: from abhmp0014.oracle.com (abhmp0014.oracle.com [141.146.116.20]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 0AING6bZ024823; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 23:16:06 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <411796bc-6901-4d3a-b1f5-cc220169803d@default> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 15:16:04 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Stefan Kangas , Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: RE: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <17ec1774-a258-4f4b-ad29-59a71270f4fe@default> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5071.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9809 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2011180160 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9809 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 clxscore=1015 malwarescore=0 impostorscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2011180160 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > >> So rewriting the emacs-lisp menus using easymenu should be > >> uncontroversial. > > > > Really? _Why_ rewrite them? >=20 > They would be easier to read, understand and change. Easier for whom? I don't find maintenance easier with easy-menu. I find it harder. Of course my "maintenance" of existing Emacs menus means adding to, or otherwise changing, them. (How do you do the equivalent of a `define-key-after', for example? Oh, or is there no equivalent?)=20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Nov 18 20:10:57 2020 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Nov 2020 01:10:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37239 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kfYTR-0007Jd-7l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 20:10:57 -0500 Received: from mail-ej1-f44.google.com ([209.85.218.44]:45890) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kfYTO-0007JI-Vl for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 20:10:55 -0500 Received: by mail-ej1-f44.google.com with SMTP id dk16so5437830ejb.12 for <24774@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 17:10:54 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=OB5JgyAx1LVx7A//JdA/aXyOzJQv5d3zAid2fgLWjak=; b=KDxzlFLTGyCaR17MQ7NQXZpZiyub3VLL0CQ6jllQ5X+fIHpsRXZQrrGUxBxjPIkIUD rIpw26JlS+ZRF4V7O+4EMHSto/BNkWVKGghrJEvIIDwYlLCoibJUr7xx7C49sSfuqvcV QZw9OkCxXyN39mHM8ST5uPrJUZ1Q+JK3yfmqq0b1FrAhBhr3h+JBnpkrgOM8f5AfME61 UF8Rvr0uOS0G0ffB1+BTwoTEkFH4e+TuoCAooR5U95c3ShCFR9rFthtYPJhc/AfKpbBf SdaueaSHOLlvmqiEcF1wgqZ6gURnMcblKM4Hx/YD/BC7vUtXACAen/0LlEUf/rrXevIK YPHw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5322+qz7J+ltjAFIGfjtchrpXxglWOj9erDKoMQSqrnGPkzrPLIt eGAqLPgcqd9WSaAy7o0g0F/Wbrs8s5XIHXcr8ko= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyesIfTxWp0Fl+G74iXeqEKvm2XG9gejSq+tcae0A7hwG5OrTCzP48px/nCEqKyUAz5bv75L7oeWOUNjf8+Qi8= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:614a:: with SMTP id p10mr8456581ejl.312.1605748246891; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 17:10:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 17:10:45 -0800 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <411796bc-6901-4d3a-b1f5-cc220169803d@default> References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <17ec1774-a258-4f4b-ad29-59a71270f4fe@default> <411796bc-6901-4d3a-b1f5-cc220169803d@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 17:10:45 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: RE: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands To: Drew Adams , Lars Ingebrigtsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Drew Adams writes: > (How do you do the equivalent of a `define-key-after', > for example? Oh, or is there no equivalent?) I'm not sure why you can't use `define-key-after', but there is also `easy-menu-define-key'. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 23 10:19:32 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2021 15:19:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60176 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lEZTH-0006Ww-HB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 10:19:32 -0500 Received: from mail-pf1-f170.google.com ([209.85.210.170]:44374) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lEZTE-0006WZ-1z for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 10:19:29 -0500 Received: by mail-pf1-f170.google.com with SMTP id t29so8950682pfg.11 for <24774@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 07:19:28 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ZfiIFw8WSC5C1ehetKYLCoKmE+CurbxIVXtdfBTC5fc=; b=DBCELPgEGK/fFu32KxgA40wLU8K6iBBrymJEa23zzz5A5NJ2VKed9EbyV1IR/iUk/G gH2GZRPWpaJezc5szhoZQE5SThxSPS7pi6Vf2ouVQivmrmopFGkHNj5EztSsbs9CKuWe 7QSgKKUxTcUqXodEL+wwrHamCT8mKsayNA+KSZ9+ZsRq1tUlRBDas4l1WSHprqSU3+nk cK2qg646nb/xP7k2frpP/zXdT1T464/tF3+wMwQClPNubV6qdGvGaf/aXB1A4tJljc7g yjyvcz2izPfdpE5rO0t9W7H3fczFRjCHaCsELEyuK9guwcPRZ2mO90s0IR4ubsk9EqAi EgQw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531yi8CwD6ifXNqkOduzYokpmkfG25K3FK4j3G3xxs9v2akoS+w5 bWxZq65mkaoBG8aPTl+AIsS6egVUpFw2rHaD5lY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyru+yVAPXrqCBNShCYUuviJUej6IOCrlfR2mJk+dIY7b4f3UDmkHG2WkZ96RB3fzH1byITMQneN2f/Ef3X/Jc= X-Received: by 2002:a63:6384:: with SMTP id x126mr24252439pgb.345.1614093562140; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 07:19:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 09:19:19 -0600 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Wed, 18 Nov 2020 22:09:03 +0100") References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 09:19:19 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="00000000000068020405bc02715e" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Andreas_R=C3=B6hler?= , 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) --00000000000068020405bc02715e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" tags 24774 + patch thanks Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Stefan Kangas writes: > >> Is preloading easy-menu.el excluded? > > If I do an "emacs -Q", then it turns out that easymenu.el is already > present, so I think something is already loading it (even if it's not > explicitly mentioned by lisp/loadup.el). > > So rewriting the emacs-lisp menus using easymenu should be > uncontroversial. 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Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=GX9AZ4vWSZF2METPyJiSUO9yGgt5cIGk4jhtFx6PBW8=; b=ZQxcnOJclc/M+eHgjtLia17xOZ JCDthJecaDF4Xh42RF441jyHRUp8kctHGp0UnPcKaUZdAtJ3S/0SMG+gFOqxjt1Mx7OcKGuatOOll k/u2cOIUmyU6dS7Yc1sjotjK4l1Ou3/ZU/wC/a1YNJIV3IeHexuDV+HXzcLaiVEjQ4gs=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lEZcz-0001Jr-PB; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 16:29:36 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAADFBMVEXYy8Opk0o7Lyz/ //+wXL6vAAAAAWJLR0QDEQxM8gAAAAd0SU1FB+UCFw8dF0qwsjEAAAF9SURBVCjPPdGxihsxEAbg sQkqXKU6iJ8g7FM4hhwklYtIYFXXHMTzFD5Drkh1CazAqnywEjv/U+afNUSwy36sRr80Evmw2sXd KsbnGEUQCmJEASADMhw+ZIXgqPzT5dEC+kFyQe6CllF2Dk7j00YR/Y8mMhBV0NEmopupAzOBRtTe YQ6v6Z59Fl3wjldgEiRSJuxZFBBVIfNpDXzKNh3hCKZZ8XYYICcLFb8cW3CZnFAU149EhiX8Bo6H O7Jn/HxKkILT0TGfM2S82gnGrZ87EW3ZSnspRLKlGb0TLXl7jAephGJZDU1N7hUcuY/iKfekFMW+ E8ExZql7tvbR8TVJvRxTeeC3fUuS/17V1o5tkfzOUEJnHlsZh1e+pnt7mcGwP2BHfWtagb09C+at VytC4/3Yhluesm1KYw3RYp+3GxPo3mf12+dh5OEu8EVuTxglxhei4nypRuzgl/wltAXKU0KCNceA kTf50DvBvl4JFJ92YBBuazQQPxxvgfgHAVQnvn0W6iEAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjEt MDItMjNUMTU6Mjk6MjMrMDA6MDDFYP14AAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOm1vZGlmeQAyMDIxLTAyLTIzVDE1 OjI5OjIzKzAwOjAwtD1FxAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: Jungle Brothers's _Straight Out The Jungle (1)_: "I'm Gonna Do You" Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 16:29:32 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Tue, 23 Feb 2021 09:19:19 -0600") Message-ID: <87k0qydcpv.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Kangas writes: >> So rewriting the emacs-lisp menus using easymenu should be >> uncontroversial. > > How do the attached patches look? Looks good to me. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: Andreas =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=B6hler?= , 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Kangas writes: >> So rewriting the emacs-lisp menus using easymenu should be >> uncontroversial. > > How do the attached patches look? Looks good to me. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 23 10:57:42 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2021 15:57:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60281 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lEa4E-0003IS-GS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 10:57:42 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41974) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lEa4C-0003IG-P5 for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 10:57:41 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:47195) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lEa47-0000OW-3P; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 10:57:35 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3735 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lEa46-0007RK-0T; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 10:57:34 -0500 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 17:57:27 +0200 Message-Id: <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Tue, 23 Feb 2021 09:19:19 -0600) Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 09:19:19 -0600 > Cc: 24774@debbugs.gnu.org > > * lisp/loadup.el: Preload easymenu. It turns out that it is already > loaded in a default Emacs 27. It is? I don't see it in "emacs -Q". It only gets loaded when emacs-lisp-mode is activated. So why do we need to preload it? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 23 11:03:11 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2021 16:03:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60289 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lEa9X-0005Xk-4L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:03:11 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:60638) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lEa9U-0005XU-FK for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:03:09 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=6L1nn4l5u27Y5k2lXdg4zrT5uBW6z9B/NRn4Ht2PK0c=; b=BAPWdhnIbQu5sAxV2l9TDWvUw0 siwWNS3YvKqqKMd2UTsndNS9TCPJJeN7aY3rPcUZNa/4w00ZQN7RJ06w8BcoShSGHW+JbnijaIt3W saV5vVEChLM0DmvburGxo0X70qF02EfZUUlitLmK6NAgUCdNU6+xy30OQ0oaIWivLeAc=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lEa9E-0001Ym-Aj; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 17:03:01 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAADFBMVEXYy8Opk0o7Lyz/ //+wXL6vAAAAAWJLR0QDEQxM8gAAAAd0SU1FB+UCFw8dF0qwsjEAAAF9SURBVCjPPdGxihsxEAbg sQkqXKU6iJ8g7FM4hhwklYtIYFXXHMTzFD5Drkh1CazAqnywEjv/U+afNUSwy36sRr80Evmw2sXd KsbnGEUQCmJEASADMhw+ZIXgqPzT5dEC+kFyQe6CllF2Dk7j00YR/Y8mMhBV0NEmopupAzOBRtTe YQ6v6Z59Fl3wjldgEiRSJuxZFBBVIfNpDXzKNh3hCKZZ8XYYICcLFb8cW3CZnFAU149EhiX8Bo6H O7Jn/HxKkILT0TGfM2S82gnGrZ87EW3ZSnspRLKlGb0TLXl7jAephGJZDU1N7hUcuY/iKfekFMW+ E8ExZql7tvbR8TVJvRxTeeC3fUuS/17V1o5tkfzOUEJnHlsZh1e+pnt7mcGwP2BHfWtagb09C+at VytC4/3Yhluesm1KYw3RYp+3GxPo3mf12+dh5OEu8EVuTxglxhei4nypRuzgl/wltAXKU0KCNceA kTf50DvBvl4JFJ92YBBuazQQPxxvgfgHAVQnvn0W6iEAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjEt MDItMjNUMTU6Mjk6MjMrMDA6MDDFYP14AAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOm1vZGlmeQAyMDIxLTAyLTIzVDE1 OjI5OjIzKzAwOjAwtD1FxAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: Jungle Brothers's _Straight Out The Jungle (1)_: "Ultimatum Ultramix" Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 17:02:51 +0100 In-Reply-To: <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 23 Feb 2021 17:57:27 +0200") Message-ID: <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > It is? I don't see it in "emacs -Q". It only gets loaded when > emacs-lisp-mode is activated. emacs -Q (featurep 'easymenu) => t Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: Stefan Kangas , 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > It is? I don't see it in "emacs -Q". It only gets loaded when > emacs-lisp-mode is activated. emacs -Q (featurep 'easymenu) => t This is probably because *scratch* is an Emacs Lisp-derived mode, but it means that it's usually loaded on startup, and emacs-lisp.el should be able to use it, because the typical impact on users will be nil. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 23 11:14:50 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2021 16:14:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60299 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lEaKj-0005nl-0A for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:14:50 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:60792) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lEaKh-0005nY-Iv for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:14:44 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=u/gn49+k6R7lMBIO2ueh1S5aXZ9B74wsz2Zx3DGtUnU=; b=QJRmxvxZRGnYrAU/sPdyo//PV7 te4VBZWwfkc3ZHR87UqEA2RljAbvdU8GgpDbDMPXS2Bc0bWC4VR3om0oTMNwp5VXKr1dplHJBKccj nKuOZQr4rZDez//wG7yyp8euZovaIeE/qn2Nfxmz6zYePL5eXCV2GPMZkIZ3RtWXd2O0=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lEaKX-0001eK-K6; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 17:14:36 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAADFBMVEXYy8Opk0o7Lyz/ //+wXL6vAAAAAWJLR0QDEQxM8gAAAAd0SU1FB+UCFw8dF0qwsjEAAAF9SURBVCjPPdGxihsxEAbg sQkqXKU6iJ8g7FM4hhwklYtIYFXXHMTzFD5Drkh1CazAqnywEjv/U+afNUSwy36sRr80Evmw2sXd KsbnGEUQCmJEASADMhw+ZIXgqPzT5dEC+kFyQe6CllF2Dk7j00YR/Y8mMhBV0NEmopupAzOBRtTe YQ6v6Z59Fl3wjldgEiRSJuxZFBBVIfNpDXzKNh3hCKZZ8XYYICcLFb8cW3CZnFAU149EhiX8Bo6H O7Jn/HxKkILT0TGfM2S82gnGrZ87EW3ZSnspRLKlGb0TLXl7jAephGJZDU1N7hUcuY/iKfekFMW+ E8ExZql7tvbR8TVJvRxTeeC3fUuS/17V1o5tkfzOUEJnHlsZh1e+pnt7mcGwP2BHfWtagb09C+at VytC4/3Yhluesm1KYw3RYp+3GxPo3mf12+dh5OEu8EVuTxglxhei4nypRuzgl/wltAXKU0KCNceA kTf50DvBvl4JFJ92YBBuazQQPxxvgfgHAVQnvn0W6iEAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjEt MDItMjNUMTU6Mjk6MjMrMDA6MDDFYP14AAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOm1vZGlmeQAyMDIxLTAyLTIzVDE1 OjI5OjIzKzAwOjAwtD1FxAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: Jungle Brothers's _Straight Out The Jungle (1)_: "Sounds of Safari (Remix)" Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 17:14:32 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Tue, 23 Feb 2021 17:02:51 +0100") Message-ID: <87mtvubw2f.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > This is probably because *scratch* is an Emacs Lisp-derived mode, but it > means that it's usually loaded on startup, and emacs-lisp.el should be > able to use it, because the typical impact on user [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: Stefan Kangas , 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > This is probably because *scratch* is an Emacs Lisp-derived mode, but it > means that it's usually loaded on startup, and emacs-lisp.el should be > able to use it, because the typical impact on users will be nil. Sorry -- I meant that there is typically no negative impact on users, but there is, of course, typically a positive impact on preloading easymenu -- it means that Emacs will, invoked the typical way, start faster. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 23 11:16:55 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2021 16:16:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60303 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lEaMp-0005rP-DU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:16:55 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:46552) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lEaMo-0005rC-0F for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:16:54 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:47408) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lEaMi-0001Ff-FF; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:16:48 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:4909 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lEaMh-0001Os-Of; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:16:48 -0500 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 18:16:41 +0200 Message-Id: <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Tue, 23 Feb 2021 17:02:51 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: stefan@marxist.se, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: Stefan Kangas , 24774@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 17:02:51 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > It is? I don't see it in "emacs -Q". It only gets loaded when > > emacs-lisp-mode is activated. > > emacs -Q > (featurep 'easymenu) > => t I get nil here, in Emacs 28. Both on MS-Windows and on GNU/Linux in "emacs -Q -nw". Maybe it's system-dependent? What Emacs configuration is the one where you get the above? > This is probably because *scratch* is an Emacs Lisp-derived mode Nope. > emacs-lisp.el should be able to use it, because the typical impact > on users will be nil. Why cannot emacs-lisp.el use it without preloading it? emacs-lisp.el is not itself preloaded, it loads only when you invoke the mode the first time, e.g. by visiting a .el file. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 23 11:37:11 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2021 16:37:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60334 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lEagR-0006Mg-Fv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:37:11 -0500 Received: from mail-pg1-f173.google.com ([209.85.215.173]:32810) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lEagQ-0006MT-EJ for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:37:10 -0500 Received: by mail-pg1-f173.google.com with SMTP id g4so2067479pgj.0 for <24774@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 08:37:10 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=SNRBnmiRT1o8xd4S5hjqvi2IrdwIDfMoxhLGtHr9XuY=; b=lJ5mrwFP2H4ZHv7YsIPDyeD8HAKVRBzH/neI+htbzAn+67N275A+ovbCadwCBNIk9H JlZD/lOSCpOM/tOdPMGru3S/0TNOF/dKCM2w2hpf0MkIjcnOTe7uqjRHGzIYkOvXBGZN l0EeATRMcTS9ZzZI1wDP1si5DgJyjXkbiuAJBm9nShvlAUy8JkHmIbfeiiVsoP6qHcTu JKlAhtsGhKulQkTCPyq5wT73qd0OD5gPfmdovKdKdWzp+9ZkTCQLPdlt36xMSrh80mkh 01SwLpg8A7Oiun94jlgtKN9bu+1wVZWJ2u37TOk3XiJJtfRcot3bSkFxa3Av5W1Tv6/z Mvvg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5336fBucooaY4V/mDWdp9eRhSgbyP36DmbTzZ7wuaQKvLPnqdQBL siRmC5ZR12S5SxmdRoasAy38nDnNgUNDr7nzEUA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzqiBFHyr5aBdZb/29Gq9oa40BIWnwQ0pvTR+nulsqywqGzSYDWY6/iYCldYv2LXFv6ImkFd2hWa/QxLjitT6o= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:8384:0:b029:1ed:1317:fbe4 with SMTP id u4-20020aa783840000b02901ed1317fbe4mr25032069pfm.57.1614098224552; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 08:37:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 10:37:04 -0600 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 10:37:04 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands To: Eli Zaretskii , Lars Ingebrigtsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: > Why cannot emacs-lisp.el use it without preloading it? emacs-lisp.el > is not itself preloaded, it loads only when you invoke the mode the > first time, e.g. by visiting a .el file. The correct name is "elisp-mode.el", and that file is preloaded. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 23 11:45:02 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2021 16:45:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60338 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lEao2-0006YK-BP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:45:02 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:53230) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lEao0-0006XZ-Gs for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:45:01 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:47825) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lEant-00053Y-9t; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:44:54 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2635 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lEanq-00068u-Bf; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:44:52 -0500 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 18:44:41 +0200 Message-Id: <831rd6vime.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Tue, 23 Feb 2021 10:37:04 -0600) Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 10:37:04 -0600 > Cc: 24774@debbugs.gnu.org > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > Why cannot emacs-lisp.el use it without preloading it? emacs-lisp.el > > is not itself preloaded, it loads only when you invoke the mode the > > first time, e.g. by visiting a .el file. > > The correct name is "elisp-mode.el", and that file is preloaded. OK, but easymenu is still not loaded here in "emacs -Q". Can you figure out which code loads it on your system? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 23 11:51:06 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2021 16:51:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60348 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lEatr-0006iJ-8o for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:51:06 -0500 Received: from mail-wm1-f44.google.com ([209.85.128.44]:52169) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lEatp-0006hp-Gc for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:51:02 -0500 Received: by mail-wm1-f44.google.com with SMTP id o82so3089318wme.1 for <24774@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 08:51:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tcd.ie; s=google21; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=DmQ8qzyaBQMeiiLpugRLQWzjGNf9el7RQAnZKyXdkxk=; b=OL7SaBOnqG6JJSl9yhOEi83V5+mKaMpJUPOJvJe5pc5KGU6TAosWPizWv+W9C/pp4d VwiZ3GCeAUCoiXh0l83a3+zrD2IEjHYbfh35pCQ2GlwTP3gnUgBe50gtokiev4K3w8IY 9/LK6cqSrwQnB3jNt6nPlESUyVSFCp/EvAUS+Wunh0Zpf1qhxN7Jg10dnr+LNBd2XYEJ pvjfmigRqO7hdZj+4d9yBr8VWMDiA7V8BMnKN1393qSy5jLUPFCn+J7jyXC119EzkGp+ JZemEhERnghR3AxsJT7pa0Iu4DP//ZSDWO4Go+4GfLnDgnI2gVV3pW3PnPBT+wD4EZLn zIZg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=DmQ8qzyaBQMeiiLpugRLQWzjGNf9el7RQAnZKyXdkxk=; b=eWdc/qcdYRkE73I/O1ccQ0fZZDpi7S8smDEAu+khDOa4OFON8Kvp5uqJe4zFVzlUnT 6Vz4uf2TRJHXTkDAyo+iZZVHRIOwRiXE0APHw+CGakKvcM8DFy9gfIQ9Qs7XiN5ZocLl AX+0ssu/isF7uxnKJ5Pg6P7YsQCMWjcs8pUauRFfY8jeBZbEkrOij4RejAaklNokEUd8 EZj3FjSfXvPVTP/3WVM3bv2I6/s447sGCCjJSqrm2zpImA8zY23e0TYw+LSRD9pVnsvO t6Tpx9E7iXvsAL+QW3fQo+Mx8M+kH6mn/a3ZR1WdI9SIGTsW3y3zV0sM2L19d5OntoTq SlUw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530cCSgPf873+fSkFeuriHZe+mqZOHscJ9bmNVJU1me9FJJwDvQQ mdXvYzZV109FtD93/F53ehD6Gw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy8uznHQypKY7TA4wYx1NPqbcBub56Rt9q5sQt009B+B+0VbSMGSam84ugRoXLd1p/T2HlaCw== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:a795:: with SMTP id q143mr26085999wme.113.1614099055360; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 08:50:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([2a02:8084:20e2:c380:d15:339e:aa10:60f1]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u137sm3094777wmu.20.2021.02.23.08.50.54 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 23 Feb 2021 08:50:54 -0800 (PST) From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 16:50:53 +0000 In-Reply-To: <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 23 Feb 2021 18:16:41 +0200") Message-ID: <87wnuysp76.fsf@tcd.ie> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , stefan@marxist.se, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen >> Cc: Stefan Kangas , 24774@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 17:02:51 +0100 >> >> emacs -Q >> (featurep 'easymenu) >> => t > > I get nil here, in Emacs 28. Both on MS-Windows and on GNU/Linux in > "emacs -Q -nw". I get nil too with C-j, C-x C-e, and M-:, and regardless of '-nw'. > Maybe it's system-dependent? What Emacs configuration is the one > where you get the above? -- Basil In GNU Emacs 28.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, cairo version 1.16.0, Xaw3d scroll bars) of 2021-02-23 built on tia Repository revision: 228fd92fb389eeaf2ec0bbca51da0569fce28ee7 Repository branch: master Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12010000 System Description: Debian GNU/Linux bullseye/sid Configured using: 'configure 'CC=ccache gcc' 'CFLAGS=-O2 -march=native' --config-cache --prefix=/home/blc/.local --enable-checking=structs --with-x-toolkit=lucid --with-file-notification=yes --with-x' Configured features: ACL CAIRO DBUS FREETYPE GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS GPM GSETTINGS HARFBUZZ JPEG JSON LCMS2 LIBOTF LIBSELINUX LIBSYSTEMD LIBXML2 M17N_FLT MODULES NOTIFY INOTIFY PDUMPER PNG RSVG SOUND THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS X11 XAW3D XDBE XIM XPM LUCID ZLIB Important settings: value of $LANG: en_IE.UTF-8 value of $XMODIFIERS: @im=ibus locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: Lisp Interaction Minor modes in effect: tooltip-mode: t global-eldoc-mode: t eldoc-mode: t electric-indent-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t line-number-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t Load-path shadows: None found. Features: (shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug message rmc puny dired dired-loaddefs rfc822 mml easymenu mml-sec epa derived epg epg-config gnus-util rmail rmail-loaddefs auth-source cl-seq eieio eieio-core cl-macs eieio-loaddefs password-cache json map text-property-search time-date subr-x seq byte-opt gv bytecomp byte-compile cconv mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader cl-loaddefs cl-lib sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils iso-transl tooltip eldoc electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel term/x-win x-win term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode elisp-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core term/tty-colors frame minibuffer cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev obarray cl-preloaded nadvice button loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files window text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote threads dbusbind inotify lcms2 dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting cairo x-toolkit x multi-tty make-network-process emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 50707 5750) (symbols 48 6596 1) (strings 32 18891 1693) (string-bytes 1 608073) (vectors 16 12103) (vector-slots 8 165037 8809) (floats 8 23 41) (intervals 56 229 0) (buffers 992 10)) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 23 12:11:12 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2021 17:11:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60372 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lEbDL-0000qX-Op for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 12:11:12 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:58880) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lEbDJ-0000qJ-Jo for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 12:11:10 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:48167) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lEbDD-0008Ni-Cv; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 12:11:03 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:4627 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lEbDC-0002Fd-Cl; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 12:11:03 -0500 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 19:10:54 +0200 Message-Id: <83zgzuu2u9.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: "Basil L. Contovounesios" In-Reply-To: <87wnuysp76.fsf@tcd.ie> (contovob@tcd.ie) Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnuysp76.fsf@tcd.ie> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" > Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , stefan@marxist.se, > 24774@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 16:50:53 +0000 > > I get nil too with C-j, C-x C-e, and M-:, and regardless of '-nw'. > > > Maybe it's system-dependent? What Emacs configuration is the one > > where you get the above? > > -- > Basil > > In GNU Emacs 28.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, cairo version 1.16.0, Xaw3d scroll bars) > of 2021-02-23 built on tia So maybe this is specific to GTK builds? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 23 12:24:55 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2021 17:24:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60378 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lEbQR-00019S-5X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 12:24:55 -0500 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:59910) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lEbQP-00019J-27 for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 12:24:41 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20210101; t=1614101079; bh=VkIufcc8SgZeknwakdZt9qiC7b/OugxzHiDXoccNgAY=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=DmQkFuhysdRw8PX3vJJ2DPLuiBiQ/gPiir84y8u0saBZghP6GLwcUBaGLCskRw89S UWjAXNs6bJG2lV7SDjr6ja8DYSy92dlr7AgFzrJ1hBY9kbgHtWGY2DK9sLgeSsp1bF +e4j5aE5CnGyPoiImBQ9dTUpqVZ9YEE1SSwXoRTk7YV1c9QXuCAkmeRr4Y9tjBXJ9p SRWbTZB2sX8yHMj/NEVRGzTnyF/Aimmok+ULBQfETLLcSQFRhW4t6u8cbXwpgwWHIX CX7HecA2jbuBX1UvtrjeYGiCjhHaLvtvlsW+N1DXtylFf2iMXzdEErjugBpFG25DIc PX6SqHsp7KEMA== Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 17:24:38 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands In-Reply-To: <83zgzuu2u9.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: <87796e2824462dd4eff2@heytings.org> References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnuysp76.fsf@tcd.ie> <83zgzuu2u9.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> I get nil too with C-j, C-x C-e, and M-:, and regardless of '-nw'. >> >>> Maybe it's system-dependent? What Emacs configuration is the one >>> where you get the above? >> >> In GNU Emacs 28.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, cairo version 1.16.0, Xaw3d scroll bars) of 2021-02-23 built on tia > > So maybe this is specific to GTK builds? > I just tried on several GTK builds (of Emacs 26, 27 and 28) and they all return nil. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 23 12:37:48 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2021 17:37:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60421 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lEbd5-0001V7-UZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 12:37:48 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:36348) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lEbd4-0001Uv-RD for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 12:37:47 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:48640) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lEbcz-0003M4-Da; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 12:37:41 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2273 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lEbcm-00074o-72; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 12:37:38 -0500 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 19:37:20 +0200 Message-Id: <83tuq2u1m7.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Gregory Heytings In-Reply-To: <87796e2824462dd4eff2@heytings.org> (message from Gregory Heytings on Tue, 23 Feb 2021 17:24:38 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnuysp76.fsf@tcd.ie> <83zgzuu2u9.fsf@gnu.org> <87796e2824462dd4eff2@heytings.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 17:24:38 +0000 > From: Gregory Heytings > cc: 24774@debbugs.gnu.org > > > So maybe this is specific to GTK builds? > > > > I just tried on several GTK builds (of Emacs 26, 27 and 28) and they all > return nil. Thanks for testing. So, Lars and Stefan: what is your secret? We are all dying to know. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 24 10:12:35 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Feb 2021 15:12:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35478 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lEvq7-0006s0-B4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2021 10:12:35 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:43132) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lEvq5-0006rn-8J for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2021 10:12:33 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=w1/5UbZMZ2BFiaoThh6zwVrFPga5O5unHQjMUK7dQkY=; b=lKbwd99PY7T78F21Srx78Ws0xS T82MJ+KexL/XnmASUKemQ15Hv56RNn/JPgmMzSH/NxyN5B7BzD31/0tmSMO6cYD11yRSiFcLsWuE1 ZgKt3KgEwTYhU9Eg6W7CBP65SY4bO6HQQYGJkxDkxmFg28XtD7lnI72Y12Sm3Al+vr0s=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lEvpw-0004wg-Cm; Wed, 24 Feb 2021 16:12:26 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnuysp76.fsf@tcd.ie> <83zgzuu2u9.fsf@gnu.org> <87796e2824462dd4eff2@heytings.org> <83tuq2u1m7.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAD1BMVEUmNUuIgX7Iv7e1 Xjv///+rj/HxAAAAAWJLR0QEj2jZUQAAAAd0SU1FB+UCGA8KMytTwiAAAAGpSURBVDjLbZNRgsMg CES1XkDIBQq5QAL3v9syqN2kjT+b8paBQSzl+1BfX7XfweeLmWp5OqxKj6BU1aP/C16U63aeun7f SlIxlf4gphRyD6SKxhE/vsFLE2w/oCbIpr8c0SQ/VYhTi+U6qmkegKj0Xn/A7qc0vzmfNRwn68+s WqOGs0+QoRwrEbHI5r6PeIfldEGETr3t8N6OjqKZBhCREApAC7SLdDtaFCZ0U4qvk8jbCYsBmv8f DNFNzpDn4n4nbnrm1X2CabEcAbLVS0ZOBX/fE5yrjulugawPcKb7kWM5sE4AhDgPZIbbcskxUpTC BUEvZ9x9FGeNCZa6qlsAHWOQaO+lG+IebWlvcylfkmsNYEFMmr1z+A1xIVg2dHtMkP8vvIdc6ESe NxPMMRvB0Hj4Nm3RdOTEzlDnXbGNJgCRBXO4PuVobaxWkFBcUioBeGwddkLweMYLyD3UmWQ5PYWK UJQaGZovKIogzLGdhGbm6dgtmAjjaSYU0coYSb6LseuRnD3m3Q6Qv3h8IrlP0OkjT5kj08cbtnEx eDujbSq6VIiJ6jKl9Ad/2F6Zrh9GIAAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAyMS0wMi0yNFQxNTox MDo1MSswMDowMMA0UPYAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjEtMDItMjRUMTU6MTA6NTErMDA6 MDCxaehKAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Ultra =?utf-8?Q?Nat=C3=A9's?= _Hero Worship_: "Planet Called Love" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 16:12:22 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83tuq2u1m7.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 23 Feb 2021 19:37:20 +0200") Message-ID: <87y2fda4a1.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > So, Lars and Stefan: what is your secret? We are all dying to know. This is really weird -- I'm also getting (featurep 'easymenu) => nil now on "emacs -Q". Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: Gregory Heytings , 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > So, Lars and Stefan: what is your secret? We are all dying to know. This is really weird -- I'm also getting (featurep 'easymenu) => nil now on "emacs -Q". Hm. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 24 11:01:45 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Feb 2021 16:01:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35537 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lEwbh-00085Y-Nu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2021 11:01:45 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.20]:55663) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lEwbf-00085K-Of for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2021 11:01:44 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1614182497; bh=cWYY9hN9QM5JDEfC6kMOBjkrjaUQTjkkhNTc04f6als=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=fQDNtd9zg2+strIl2cSa9O5khINbaA7zVFdp/RfnOHGtZ4cmrqK0KCcNevtnOrZ43 rn2UjqqXKrTHaLiJqloDyqmbumcxT/XJfyKnvHFwOMsnxe3naGu+7HdkEN2mLj4k9r MZeYgLhS8Cc7qPTIJ6EQSmjPa1B3ea14RkErterk= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from strobe-jhalfs ([178.6.218.141]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M8hZJ-1lAnsP3w5B-004gLN; Wed, 24 Feb 2021 17:01:37 +0100 From: Stephen Berman To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnuysp76.fsf@tcd.ie> <83zgzuu2u9.fsf@gnu.org> <87796e2824462dd4eff2@heytings.org> <83tuq2u1m7.fsf@gnu.org> <87y2fda4a1.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 17:01:29 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87y2fda4a1.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Wed, 24 Feb 2021 16:12:22 +0100") Message-ID: <87blc9qwti.fsf@rub.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:g9jm2YOuSQyEHwWXdTAZrkOjoarp4FpJju4V2su4T7knBlMjYB8 LCHDrtiFk0Xh815TEYYL1d3mPLYGQ2w98uJ9pTqEVb6ML+iTZTyJDYhjXfDqJ1qY+gXsu2i 70D9PTtaFojNhGf2MZ6f1dvXJt6FJWikf9r8oUJNq7keU7HNgquTU22Xu81QR8kz7uhTb7L VmLNzGm+MSqDISSWF0KTw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:4yUgfDbhupA=:ahwZsvOGPvFt70eydBfG1P hDNMtPz3JmI+LM6UJw4uWEgGYj0DWk9vlOc3vtqAO+wNrdncfqci3NaRq/NVTkGtzwybzg++s 1cmpL2sGmz5TRV/d8+hpo2i7ctjM/G7nRbmOcOX5BVX3geSwyn0rm9yuEKN8U+5/KidodeHx0 NIkEFzOWTxeS9pI/OdJVD+ygY3/HzoMXLlKlyqWQXhhfSy+oiTArRLET3uP8l4JG6yiPTbXWM n/8OCqcP4ICuvtLSY6EpuzkABBFUNymQUckf+C8zizPBMi3/OLNxt7qy29zzMkZXE/IQQAquu 5YhBL8/bWeelsW82x1wuCv3xrseyWrtMSxjP5sMc2PZdiG1c1CsqU0H1d5XGmpZ0lS1kF2tqe YpMS2CWGNPW1FDvgvIrC4k35Qt9F6Ui9KFlR+VtNELy/9HWh3Ss1ltznU+vyibdBy7XQXTHCy SAKYQZ59qUTfRKpSwXl5L2SLSNAdatCMW7hSR+5zWuktSO8xi50V8tV0sp4ZiuY2Aid0VKp6x YkRBSHsRwoghVrDz5xounCVU99ubNXWGno9NEtwSDkv1L/A+mYzu3q4GnkTki8I6ds09FY8Dp cMyML4fFVVviyOfqXhmHZnWFE+A2B2DVCCvSVsRkJ5PVi0E6iSOUasAf87+LD0aY4JJk8iAD6 sgvzVNFdW7HPOBTaGMTlnbx2D8uHjmMrdXTVfYXj5LgFephEKibFsRndXgIiBiWTLmmE2Yjn0 c4vnufntJUoeBbpoyIr8mFk1LLFv0u3SP8UZ17uImTTGBpLcRxl2RD5Z/77Fm/YtHXXJW5CMb zz0W9fTvcjO64TqzaLXfvOk43/owWX6QqoHfqOhFakYmZMrXVOojNCHPo1NMRXHTKRrNsQONZ iuXyuWYGRE3E+aoidCeg== X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Gregory Heytings , 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 16:12:22 +0100 Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Eli Zaretskii writes: > >> So, Lars and Stefan: what is your secret? We are all dying to know. > > This is really weird -- I'm also getting (featurep 'easymenu) => nil now > on "emacs -Q". > > Hm. When you got t previously, could you have done `C-h v features' before testing featurep? help-mode loads easymenu.el. Steve Berman From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 24 11:06:35 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Feb 2021 16:06:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35551 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lEwgN-0008D4-03 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2021 11:06:35 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:43514) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lEwgL-0008Cs-Io for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2021 11:06:33 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=1cpBKl+St05njiWJiizSgzVNLa4LKJqvLBwFfTc7gKA=; b=kwPH5dfybd97a5tG5GbBwWhfmr GiMwtYDrZjK3g1ValP6FJ9VzUltoLTiwl079D6Gi+98Bk6y705XiijPO4Y0nohZO1aijVckCbLrNi B6/QNiziDMOnyi/JYWeAF2Je74es0AfwJcJDaK8leWJ7w0mU8taZOOJB7PtpYWFxXfWs=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lEwgC-0005T0-Hn; Wed, 24 Feb 2021 17:06:27 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stephen Berman Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnuysp76.fsf@tcd.ie> <83zgzuu2u9.fsf@gnu.org> <87796e2824462dd4eff2@heytings.org> <83tuq2u1m7.fsf@gnu.org> <87y2fda4a1.fsf@gnus.org> <87blc9qwti.fsf@rub.de> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAD1BMVEXLuH7BqVJGOifN XUX////ApvMBAAAAAWJLR0QEj2jZUQAAAAd0SU1FB+UCGBAEKCjPwg8AAAGdSURBVDjLbZOLkcQg CIbxtgHRBiI0sEr/vR0/PpK9PWcyIXy8MUSfJx+JKfmz5HNyotKERTIlkVYEpwUiF/DFAUIlGzAM +7SW6nauaExFeMgJI3gxHgdD/gA8jZq0sUMNhCpI2sRz9Kgk4qmDPl0pqnUwC3XAPAG8V8INwnmD aEZ7AF0eceJDa4D2DYryqkNo1T+LLWbOoFLyrDrcdoKoA4V0UmYz69VwoqXEVZSxA6jmq8cqMrtZ JPdYNg+IL2wDmUlEbRWqQw+IGgH057r72EBjAYT3aXCzfnEygDLCECAy9KwvMzHiqTlALm/fhlFd mrEnc73UiZKhhw00gFfnwJd9AxcwG8QI0BcICxR3DSGXAxRB6BXOJoiF//iG6vZA5yj1E5gMzCpG 6oGKXCmmPzdjD9Bec+x8g7isErbYxwE2b3GqxqPgT1GMJPaGP444MRceI98elgNk3zf39AjlLrgD id9U/bd9PUFCOfULGM1r5Mo39P0GKTpb1k8wW176B+gB+vk6wOV6bvAH2BGW0P0y/KOHC/ENbpue 7BdGeJat82m2jwAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAyMS0wMi0yNFQxNjowNDozOSswMDowMEAb BGIAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjEtMDItMjRUMTY6MDQ6MzkrMDA6MDAxRrzeAAAAAElF TkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Eats Tapes's _Still Works_: "Animal Minded" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 17:06:22 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87blc9qwti.fsf@rub.de> (Stephen Berman's message of "Wed, 24 Feb 2021 17:01:29 +0100") Message-ID: <87tuq1a1s1.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stephen Berman writes: > When you got t previously, could you have done `C-h v features' before > testing featurep? help-mode loads easymenu.el. Aha! Just doing `C-h v TAB' loads easymenu. So I must have done that (or something similar) on my way to `M-: (featurep 'easymenu)' Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Gregory Heytings , 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stephen Berman writes: > When you got t previously, could you have done `C-h v features' before > testing featurep? help-mode loads easymenu.el. Aha! Just doing `C-h v TAB' loads easymenu. So I must have done that (or something similar) on my way to `M-: (featurep 'easymenu)' -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 24 20:25:33 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Feb 2021 01:25:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36305 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lF5PJ-0004tw-Mg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2021 20:25:33 -0500 Received: from mail-pj1-f47.google.com ([209.85.216.47]:54682) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lF5PI-0004ti-1q for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2021 20:25:32 -0500 Received: by mail-pj1-f47.google.com with SMTP id i14so888246pjz.4 for <24774@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 24 Feb 2021 17:25:31 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=u2pDFL3671hFBF21D9x2iKmBYCNFHtGkm/RoZP0I0eU=; b=HvYhZ36n3i9HIYkBEZNhrCZhtL3czNZ5OnUNDCu0ZoXmYxemTNYTrRtahZ+3rrbPT3 zuZA/8jVkYv+DpT/h5p9303wZcB/e72Hu/1ZaGMQSC0Ejk5hnn+PLQdrEolEJ2Qoeclp 6O6XWKRcLNzOqNdY0zCZlDrGxub6HxxnSyv0k1sLz1Co3TYRJPv2+Hw/5zfOTgvN4FBP F9ce9oM/+DzKJk2RBAcdo6DmdNqq+8mA7BJJXydEqmHDNZmRR0XNtVrzL8tPnq9fxbqu 5ssDWSnL/D/Z18WV3fhJsEyMNyutuT7nI6hRTiQZ9FEp4dv9KJpNyZPYlDbqbtJYVCoM xbBA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5324jDtLdnCHb207pkAJqu+fkx186qnjXxo+tAWBI7qXySh/BucH ONmUgLrTq86BhBql1iVFmGqCKwHoM1+19LQweIY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJze1YPuLRJwi7MKEw1++5GaaGck7hQ29kLNQZHiS/dSOA/OJn2XpcV8oBI12qUDypRFbCeqtM8/lYldH5YyMHU= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:ec8a:b029:e3:efa6:4f4 with SMTP id x10-20020a170902ec8ab02900e3efa604f4mr589574plg.39.1614216325901; Wed, 24 Feb 2021 17:25:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 24 Feb 2021 19:25:25 -0600 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <831rd6vime.fsf@gnu.org> References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> <831rd6vime.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 19:25:25 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> The correct name is "elisp-mode.el", and that file is preloaded. > > OK, but easymenu is still not loaded here in "emacs -Q". Can you > figure out which code loads it on your system? I can no longer reproduce this now: emacs -Q M-: (featurep 'easymenu) => nil I tried this several times both on master and Emacs 27. I have no idea what I did differently before, because I did confirm that it was preloaded (or so it seemed). Perhaps I inadvertently did something else that loaded it? I do see this on both master and Emacs 27: emacs -Q foo.txt M-: (featurep 'easymenu) => t So it seems very easy to get it to load it in normal use. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 25 04:04:23 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Feb 2021 09:04:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36628 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFCZL-00011W-8J for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 04:04:23 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.22]:48925) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFCZJ-00011J-Rf for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 04:04:22 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1614243855; bh=GvUZAEj5itMyfJXSwopKpk4B2LYRgb/31xtovxMWzBo=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=P7460hPpZ5sRB0ViMR53bMFtbrjdHB1tzZtxHdmuAH2P4QjflA0w5RBZJ3YdrLWm4 kUNUuSZCWv0Pho8j5rdQzc62eT2xTxRuuQ5ExkgRZ/A1VrxewVymlT+LsmMCDmJPGB ohQ8LCNqLLCiHq/i4OvpzlapQFvdNsgstwXuhGaM= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from strobe-jhalfs ([178.6.215.227]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MVvLB-1lMWqp3Pnx-00Rqyr; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 10:04:14 +0100 From: Stephen Berman To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> <831rd6vime.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 10:04:06 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Wed, 24 Feb 2021 19:25:25 -0600") Message-ID: <87lfbc4iyh.fsf@gmx.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:NVNC1Azl5AbjQNxRrpL8LYLM53/3ImbJ4Ixhedw/cGqdMzY5poK hGCeg60yGwX6gOapIub9Hn45KlymNk+31PThVO2fyG8tji1HwzvSuIyUOyZxG3oRiJX2DMm vxPPAAcSrjhAFiK5lHG8soMMRQlAOxVwo/EcFa0EC7pNPJEMsKb/tFFZbP5t8cm4mvwdzcq OlyMjiHYmMwO8dZnSxT4g== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:05xTkJwOsjE=:pyAT54IqJT89Mtf9S/dWlp rtdShlX1jk+XbiyZWSSdOfvRMCNDgrLHgn4qb2LmMLHYPLDLt8IY2f3uJB737iyWANtxanp4+ CN/rgFlnR+ph4Mqk71Uwf+h68PGf1rcDKs2GAxGNceg4KmZs7rkO4gp/jgr8Q2kplBX4fTgBy Zl1/bnmCY53pAKQePdjfC0mXNOOMgwdWuuQ408A2CrA0aH0FcKkd5BbwpTiOdZpLJddUsFI7h AIzpF3nfJ4c9cRJK+fz8YBz+0Ltvt7IycoT8lDYLUXxF7lQpZ3wpXxdef1pz6ZMLERofQsoRA j9uKbVspckVetzWBhMwAmaBWxe1WDIr62v0pHUj4e1coi7zmbs1cBzEJVqhhS9s4fRSP3ozkR 67E1r9EeiASYJQTGJIwA6KOfq/SBsB/CJIY4+Xg8UTzVQK5tPv1OQo+ZgYiUsPGt4ipSL0RB5 F4irqFE/0qoeWVxQwLaQ+yg3tdVMdoLaeE8KhJ4z3jq5dB2fnSJD4iIpmL8WdLGN9dejFZRLI Mwawn/ibPnaWGacudbaXi50wL1fqDgg7Sr2eTF+sMi6kehsCn7IP1yQpoe1OetjMgsheQwyBz LPJsFDALqEtOhL15g6b6hWJBzZDVxmgEiw928SIDBtxe7WNlS23RljuttLqAkkg3z8Yu3Yp87 SzVTTqdu40VZaIKMC/KxxzEMWFR7Ah3HeLTEYIdcufIX2NJIDrY+yekWINXPUYX85dDkcMqeS d9XWxXfkpgU325orvwZlobWZyoXTMb1gm4cfe0ClWcOUOg2l19kB5g8jm7CgSlphHm6DJSV3r D9sx2naAX5UjufyKYIxshuU+en6D5DbpNNyJm0hs0e0Zj08M7KJHxxJCxFyPsPQ7ejCfZ6p8r coiG0TPiKuD2yUWPELpA== X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , larsi@gnus.org, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 19:25:25 -0600 Stefan Kangas wrote: > I do see this on both master and Emacs 27: > > emacs -Q foo.txt > M-: (featurep 'easymenu) > => t I cannot reproduce this. Also with this: emacs-27 -Q --eval "(message \"easymenu is%s loaded\" (if (featurep 'easymenu) \"\" \" not\"))" foo.txt C-x b *Messages* => easymenu is not loaded Compare: emacs-27 -Q --eval "(progn (load-library \"easymenu\") (message \"easymenu is%s loaded\" (if (featurep 'easymenu) \"\" \" not\")))" foo.txt C-x b *Messages* => easymenu is loaded If you don't get this difference, something is weird somewhere. Steve Berman From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 25 04:24:19 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Feb 2021 09:24:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36658 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFCsc-0001Ua-NG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 04:24:18 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60004) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFCsa-0001UM-Ht for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 04:24:16 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:52058) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lFCsU-0002zU-9y; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 04:24:10 -0500 Received: from [2a02:14f:1ff:c372::12e0:ad40] (port=36610) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lFCsT-0000ge-8b; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 04:24:09 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 11:24:05 +0200 User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <87lfbc4iyh.fsf@gmx.net> References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> <831rd6vime.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbc4iyh.fsf@gmx.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands To: Stephen Berman ,Stefan Kangas From: Eli Zaretskii Message-ID: <20A0FFE1-60BC-4BB0-A840-15D8D39D1B1D@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On February 25, 2021 11:04:06 AM GMT+02:00, Stephen Berman wrote: > On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 19:25:25 -0600 Stefan Kangas > wrote: >=20 > > I do see this on both master and Emacs 27: > > > > emacs -Q foo=2Etxt > > M-: (featurep 'easymenu) > > =3D> t >=20 > I cannot reproduce this=2E Also with this: >=20 > emacs-27 -Q --eval "(message \"easymenu is%s loaded\" (if (featurep > 'easymenu) \"\" \" not\"))" foo=2Etxt >=20 > C-x b *Messages* > =3D> easymenu is not loaded >=20 > Compare: >=20 > emacs-27 -Q --eval "(progn (load-library \"easymenu\") (message > \"easymenu is%s loaded\" (if (featurep 'easymenu) \"\" \" not\")))" > foo=2Etxt >=20 > C-x b *Messages* > =3D> easymenu is loaded >=20 > If you don't get this difference, something is weird somewhere=2E I'm guessing that Stefan did this in a Git-versioned tree, where visiting = a file loads vc-git=2Eel, which loads diff-mode=2Eel, which loads easymenu= =2E From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 25 10:10:12 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Feb 2021 15:10:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38975 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFIHM-0004RC-0U for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 10:10:12 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:54638) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFIHK-0004Qq-1G for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 10:10:11 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=IQX0KWS8VXYUcedCnIZPywckdvjy3AO2TQvNJvpKxm8=; b=ZqtqaWpy7dbyCIyA4wNc1vMRza ClJiNl34JwBpa4jeoL73o2xm+GgIXHcSHyrkF7QZsUHoCv5jkjnkuly/T7FeiefrE+qeuvqmZxsyR nf+fcht33V+Ah+LgcNUid79HQ8oodIKS86hy6pfUSrBj+w5Wjv3CKXCeKIcjT0rYqQE0=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lFIH9-0000ee-So; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 16:10:02 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> <831rd6vime.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbc4iyh.fsf@gmx.net> <20A0FFE1-60BC-4BB0-A840-15D8D39D1B1D@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAADFBMVEWsWEigk2I7Jh7/ ///Ow/J8AAAAAWJLR0QDEQxM8gAAAAd0SU1FB+UCGQ8FOm2rAS4AAAFvSURBVCjPXdKxSsRAEAbg PyER2SpKFvQqFYUjTxFBQayi3FhYWecpcodapIqFjdUqQTb/Uzq7uUMxRcKXmcnO7AYoUbHDfFmR NsA4hQQ4JPRJPcNr6nQR0q5bMu05+W0NDfX6h3e5q8gqoAPp5VZvQOXA/kXuuemk1gXIF1mRa6nP ZojhgcQ0H5EoPHpnZWV8Io1GDp02VPlcmtAhGtg37+RJscZlubrzsGGINaxtLrvjKzHPOEcu98mQ p6XiVOd7SIYihemwrGEfUoeISqe42rhkr1O0QJ69urwojDbewZZ7Y6n7g5BpmwXLLKDVJuqFjlxo daszpgHPYVgir8MGVyx0uCFpdINlyVFfjBHIqkkjE8AI6pNaorPARHTff8BJYZESfYQfcJLuIt9D 5nZoP0YsEeDJx37CzQynn570jCN8wDiDXDAuNOMInJ52OPnip3boEc5Wi5zfRjZc/kLPlV/7SLcR w8xvoX9LiBv+AJmh1aT6MaJrAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIxLTAyLTI1VDE1OjA1OjU4 KzAwOjAw3GOQMAAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMS0wMi0yNVQxNTowNTo1OCswMDowMK0+ KIwAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Casino Music's _Jungle Love_: "C'est Extraordinaire" Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 16:09:58 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20A0FFE1-60BC-4BB0-A840-15D8D39D1B1D@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 25 Feb 2021 11:24:05 +0200") Message-ID: <87y2fc420p.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > I'm guessing that Stefan did this in a Git-versioned tree, where > visiting a file loads vc-git.el, which loads diff-mode.el, which loads > easymenu. Right. Even `C-h v' loads easymenu, so I think the conclusion here is that it's difficult to do many normal operations in Emacs without easymenu being loaded. So preloading it seems like the right thi [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: Stephen Berman , Stefan Kangas , 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > I'm guessing that Stefan did this in a Git-versioned tree, where > visiting a file loads vc-git.el, which loads diff-mode.el, which loads > easymenu. Right. Even `C-h v' loads easymenu, so I think the conclusion here is that it's difficult to do many normal operations in Emacs without easymenu being loaded. So preloading it seems like the right thing to do -- it'll make normal Emacs usage faster (and allow us to clean up more ancient code at the same time). -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 25 10:27:55 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Feb 2021 15:27:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39001 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFIYV-0004wG-5v for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 10:27:55 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57628) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFIYS-0004w2-D5 for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 10:27:54 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:57471) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lFIYM-0004hp-K0; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 10:27:46 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:4099 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lFIYL-0006bo-Eu; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 10:27:45 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 17:27:32 +0200 Message-Id: <83ft1krwuz.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87y2fc420p.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Thu, 25 Feb 2021 16:09:58 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> <831rd6vime.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbc4iyh.fsf@gmx.net> <20A0FFE1-60BC-4BB0-A840-15D8D39D1B1D@gnu.org> <87y2fc420p.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, stefan@marxist.se, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: Stephen Berman , Stefan Kangas > , 24774@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 16:09:58 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > I'm guessing that Stefan did this in a Git-versioned tree, where > > visiting a file loads vc-git.el, which loads diff-mode.el, which loads > > easymenu. > > Right. Even `C-h v' loads easymenu, so I think the conclusion here is > that it's difficult to do many normal operations in Emacs without > easymenu being loaded. So preloading it seems like the right thing to > do -- it'll make normal Emacs usage faster (and allow us to clean up > more ancient code at the same time). We never followed such logic, AFAIR. Quite the contrary: we tried to delay loading as log as we could. So maybe, for example, loading diff-mode just because a VC backend loads is not TRT. More generally, I'm afraid that not keeping this stuff in check will be a slippery slope, which will quickly lead to a much fatter Emacs process. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 25 10:52:38 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Feb 2021 15:52:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39034 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFIwP-0005Xx-U8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 10:52:38 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:55042) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFIwO-0005Xi-Im for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 10:52:37 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=4XFfyw7gMTfR4Dqp/OAFJyXsS9sbWB38ZS1KslPYVec=; b=YMlJW5zwA4h94sJSGWGJYY4RML 4JfKfs8CQdtwhtgI230xq1J3RMDNSwu804ydSpodVA7VVHLMRyZOQwMe7ERvhwlajcU7BEksNJ4nK jCVfPIkNEDHe+D44afG1MKLLfWR02Auq8d+y07G1bkorDAQUVIiQV0HCzVU5kKapPynw=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lFIwF-0000ua-Qd; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 16:52:30 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> <831rd6vime.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbc4iyh.fsf@gmx.net> <20A0FFE1-60BC-4BB0-A840-15D8D39D1B1D@gnu.org> <87y2fc420p.fsf@gnus.org> <83ft1krwuz.fsf@gnu.org> X-Now-Playing: The Ex's _Turn_: "Prism Song" Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 16:52:26 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83ft1krwuz.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 25 Feb 2021 17:27:32 +0200") Message-ID: <87czwo401x.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > More generally, I'm afraid that not keeping this stuff in check will > be a slippery slope, which will quickly lead to a much fatter Emacs > process. Including easymenu allows for a slimmer Emacs process -- using easymenu results in smaller .elc files for the .el files that use it, I think? Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, stefan@marxist.se, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > More generally, I'm afraid that not keeping this stuff in check will > be a slippery slope, which will quickly lead to a much fatter Emacs > process. Including easymenu allows for a slimmer Emacs process -- using easymenu results in smaller .elc files for the .el files that use it, I think? So I say include it in loadup. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 25 13:19:03 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Feb 2021 18:19:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39214 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFLE7-0006xm-4X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 13:19:03 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45520) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFLE2-0006xC-AI for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 13:19:01 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:60956) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lFLDw-000837-J9; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 13:18:52 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2598 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lFLDv-000783-AX; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 13:18:51 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 20:18:37 +0200 Message-Id: <837dmwroxu.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87czwo401x.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Thu, 25 Feb 2021 16:52:26 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> <831rd6vime.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbc4iyh.fsf@gmx.net> <20A0FFE1-60BC-4BB0-A840-15D8D39D1B1D@gnu.org> <87y2fc420p.fsf@gnus.org> <83ft1krwuz.fsf@gnu.org> <87czwo401x.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, stefan@marxist.se, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, stefan@marxist.se, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 16:52:26 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > More generally, I'm afraid that not keeping this stuff in check will > > be a slippery slope, which will quickly lead to a much fatter Emacs > > process. > > Including easymenu allows for a slimmer Emacs process -- using easymenu > results in smaller .elc files for the .el files that use it, I think? > > So I say include it in loadup. Again: we never included in loadup what is not immediately loaded at startup anyway. I don't think we should start that way, so please let's not. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 25 14:21:10 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Feb 2021 19:21:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39380 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFMCE-0002Az-IU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 14:21:10 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:38172) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFMC9-0002A9-RM for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 14:21:09 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:33950) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lFMBy-0001xG-R5; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 14:20:59 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2682 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lFMBy-0004kW-5n; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 14:20:54 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 21:20:39 +0200 Message-Id: <83wnuwq7i0.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: larsi@gnus.org In-Reply-To: <837dmwroxu.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Thu, 25 Feb 2021 20:18:37 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> <831rd6vime.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbc4iyh.fsf@gmx.net> <20A0FFE1-60BC-4BB0-A840-15D8D39D1B1D@gnu.org> <87y2fc420p.fsf@gnus.org> <83ft1krwuz.fsf@gnu.org> <87czwo401x.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmwroxu.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, stefan@marxist.se, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 20:18:37 +0200 > From: Eli Zaretskii > Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, stefan@marxist.se, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org > > > Including easymenu allows for a slimmer Emacs process -- using easymenu > > results in smaller .elc files for the .el files that use it, I think? > > > > So I say include it in loadup. > > Again: we never included in loadup what is not immediately loaded at > startup anyway. I don't think we should start that way, so please > let's not. Alternatively, if you think the criteria for what should and shouldn't be preloaded should change, let's see if we can come up with some reasonable modified criteria that will not let us slip that slope. What I'd like to avoid is preloading something without having a clear idea why, because then we won't be able to explain why we preload foo.el, but not bar.el or baz.el. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 26 03:48:29 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Feb 2021 08:48:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40267 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFYnV-0006er-5F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 03:48:29 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:33948) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFYnT-0006ed-7M for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 03:48:28 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=4eTXhU57Gt5nXm4paYGsETtJmtPxkSsdaD30GeYi7zg=; b=BUb9PZyMDAxBcehxTuy4pqwAsd z1xY80a8MKB9v1GMocOeqpHeHRY4r2znLPYUJf8x2rAFIrzoZp1hXNBYEYSpyI2uvF2Z5SlBDJcw3 gfbeXXN34mAtNRdkdR+O6f9nes0TxSHKMjytKdeFqVNHUaFU25V+ZWdWCzQeQ83xLNGA=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lFYnJ-0000T7-6Z; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 09:48:19 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> <831rd6vime.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbc4iyh.fsf@gmx.net> <20A0FFE1-60BC-4BB0-A840-15D8D39D1B1D@gnu.org> <87y2fc420p.fsf@gnus.org> <83ft1krwuz.fsf@gnu.org> <87czwo401x.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmwroxu.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAIGNIUk0AAHomAACAhAAA+gAA AIDoAAB1MAAA6mAAADqYAAAXcJy6UTwAAAAPUExURWtmYVRRT4mVmDw7PP////P55/4AAAABYktH RASPaNlRAAAACXBIWXMAAABkAAAAZAAPlsXdAAAAB3RJTUUH5QIaCCski1mMCgAAAEZ0RVh0UmF3 IHByb2ZpbGUgdHlwZSBhcHAxMgAKYXBwMTIKICAgICAgMTUKNDQ3NTYzNmI3OTAwMDEwMDA0MDAw MDAwM2MwMDAwCszIdZsAAAFdSURBVDjLlZQBbsMwCEU/6QVAvkCbEyzK/e824IPtat2kWW2i+vn7 A8YFOBT7MLN4iZn6Z82rEMQCCSDx4zjPp6+dK1yi+fP00YrcM4CkwCUNHKm4UCkIyQ5gP0FYQBwe BC+C2NsyiAalEDA+K++zw+2MGIvPH2gPuRU0d/DEMc0fDSKTJzoP0XFHuMpUgPZwMDITYVX8bXza HSUR8/UVxQRXgktzE7FZxPsLQ2U4wDCCNBuWIBSQoUsxPNC7QASdiqiHe09FuPB8oI+L9eBWNoEv ZojsCEt3WlSvsFaywFUAvaD7SuspugHl4SEaa9iSIJoww4jwr7UZjM0W38oDpZgjKqFTsgHXVkLY gVyGbn7aerWy1TvxWoqZiTd1Z76bI3vUdsWKqhvr30B+AYz2o0L/8uBdkp785PEOtG9fFL6PrP4/ 6qhqVXUs7x93WjebZwfDmllj3lp7n/XxDYmYLb8YmhOyAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIx LTAyLTI2VDA4OjQzOjM2KzAwOjAwBB/U1QAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMS0wMi0yNlQw ODo0MzozNiswMDowMHVCbGkAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Oliver Cherer's _Sir Ollife Leigh & Other Ghosts + A Millying & Mor EP_: "Croham Hurst" Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 09:48:15 +0100 In-Reply-To: <837dmwroxu.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 25 Feb 2021 20:18:37 +0200") Message-ID: <87h7lzmcz4.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Including easymenu allows for a slimmer Emacs process -- using easymenu >> results in smaller .elc files for the .el files that use it, I think? >> >> So I say include it in loadup. > > Again: we n [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, stefan@marxist.se, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Including easymenu allows for a slimmer Emacs process -- using easymenu >> results in smaller .elc files for the .el files that use it, I think? >> >> So I say include it in loadup. > > Again: we never included in loadup what is not immediately loaded at > startup anyway. I don't think we should start that way, so please > let's not. The suggested patch is to use easymenu in elisp-mode.el -- which is a file that's preloaded. To use it there, easymenu itself also has to be preloaded, so I'm not sure exactly what you mean here. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 26 07:04:55 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Feb 2021 12:04:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40394 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFbra-0000oC-Tv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:04:55 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54072) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFbrZ-0000o0-4K for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:04:53 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:53978) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lFbrT-0007dv-D5; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:04:47 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:4529 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lFbrM-0007Ze-P8; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:04:44 -0500 Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 14:04:30 +0200 Message-Id: <83blc7qbld.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87h7lzmcz4.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Fri, 26 Feb 2021 09:48:15 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> <831rd6vime.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbc4iyh.fsf@gmx.net> <20A0FFE1-60BC-4BB0-A840-15D8D39D1B1D@gnu.org> <87y2fc420p.fsf@gnus.org> <83ft1krwuz.fsf@gnu.org> <87czwo401x.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmwroxu.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7lzmcz4.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, stefan@marxist.se, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, stefan@marxist.se, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 09:48:15 +0100 > > > Again: we never included in loadup what is not immediately loaded at > > startup anyway. I don't think we should start that way, so please > > let's not. > > The suggested patch is to use easymenu in elisp-mode.el -- which is a > file that's preloaded. To use it there, easymenu itself also has to be > preloaded, so I'm not sure exactly what you mean here. maybe it's a reason good enough not to use easymenu in elisp-mode.el? Why do we want to do that, again? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 26 07:07:48 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Feb 2021 12:07:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40398 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFbuO-0000sP-DE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:07:48 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:35790) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFbuM-0000sB-Bz for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:07:46 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=MNTfDUuM6xrfkn/2WylcMT/VPyNh0+ftqgqMxuDnLw8=; b=uN1lkIuN9lfV8pStDkRs0NlR4i LVp0pVl9SrFLML0uzUhMOrh6Y7kl2v2wbMIsNXKlHdIrDh1Y8ajzM/ZW1aHkMNeneuNw3wEue2zd7 S2mw4q/+sc8Yg/4rSy9Fm9kgeZLyoKTZwiOcziSCSLQEBAtVFaKj7CMq8hk4ZoAyo3fs=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lFbuB-00020I-Ku; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 13:07:39 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> <831rd6vime.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbc4iyh.fsf@gmx.net> <20A0FFE1-60BC-4BB0-A840-15D8D39D1B1D@gnu.org> <87y2fc420p.fsf@gnus.org> <83ft1krwuz.fsf@gnu.org> <87czwo401x.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmwroxu.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7lzmcz4.fsf@gnus.org> <83blc7qbld.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAGFBMVEXpmB4gL4dEJEvj XRublpjCLCYWDg/////Hlt10AAAAAWJLR0QHFmGI6wAAAAd0SU1FB+UCGgwGKKXMMhIAAAG1SURB VDjLddHNbuQgDABgutu9r6lmzwspOY+S0PNU5QFaR/Q+rOL3f4Ta/MyQqIuUoPBhGxyl7uNB/WeY 8zeLIVwU/O5XZvVz5ofhBzw9hnCHMpblskAIy+UIlyWEV4aQv86cpAaEkGEOdeMNFt78Gp5DeDtA WHh/0LeAG7x5DgBYvwGQ8XSHmCe/ThlOHcjgDB8Z7rkKMBkAw89whAhgExk4RU4ruRsg6GkbyWhf Fxp8gMZIdIV4AAN69UQJ3AH4pOd5JOIiO0AA984RXGQPfItTfKGuiGolQL8XcDuQS//9zHDqATOU CN1DbtQwSXGAHvgW3HKfNvSmFikAzqHRvxx3CWuRDMh5rTPo4hptLaJKiYgj2WGdIrabZDB6jtyO fzM6PnIpovJhB8+dpW2OAleNaK2yFhHWKBFpniND0tZmsNw4rIAkrb+BXbm2pPLSFQJdAazsZ4jb uAcnpTnHWmYDBWTOCzT4PeixrNM2VdAZAOo6JczTtYD8vCYNoAK0XLYH+UctJJU3L1RoEdSB6QKI xgpQ4M8eKINk4u9R8qfkPlPNpUrAWHfHvEFuItDVbacA+AIXCg5SVfXFaAAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpj cmVhdGUAMjAyMS0wMi0yNlQxMjowNjo0MCswMDowMJyq12AAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIw MjEtMDItMjZUMTI6MDY6NDArMDA6MDDt92/cAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: The Police's =?utf-8?Q?=5FZenyatt=C3=A0?= Mondatta_: "When The World Is Running Down, You Make The Best Of What's Still Around" Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 13:07:34 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83blc7qbld.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 26 Feb 2021 14:04:30 +0200") Message-ID: <87lfbbkp6h.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > maybe it's a reason good enough not to use easymenu in elisp-mode.el? > Why do we want to do that, again? Because it's a better, more sensible way to define menus. (And possibly smaller .elc file, as I said.) Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, stefan@marxist.se, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > maybe it's a reason good enough not to use easymenu in elisp-mode.el? > Why do we want to do that, again? Because it's a better, more sensible way to define menus. (And possibly smaller .elc file, as I said.) -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 26 07:28:19 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Feb 2021 12:28:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40417 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFcEF-0001M7-JJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:28:19 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59066) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFcEE-0001Lt-Ek for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:28:19 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:55825) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lFcE8-0001GO-Fo; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:28:12 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1981 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lFcE7-0003YZ-MG; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:28:12 -0500 Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 14:27:58 +0200 Message-Id: <838s7bqai9.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87lfbbkp6h.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Fri, 26 Feb 2021 13:07:34 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> <831rd6vime.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbc4iyh.fsf@gmx.net> <20A0FFE1-60BC-4BB0-A840-15D8D39D1B1D@gnu.org> <87y2fc420p.fsf@gnus.org> <83ft1krwuz.fsf@gnu.org> <87czwo401x.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmwroxu.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7lzmcz4.fsf@gnus.org> <83blc7qbld.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbbkp6h.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, stefan@marxist.se, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, stefan@marxist.se, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 13:07:34 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > maybe it's a reason good enough not to use easymenu in elisp-mode.el? > > Why do we want to do that, again? > > Because it's a better, more sensible way to define menus. But the same argument can be brought up for cl-macs.el and cl-lib.el and seq.el and map.el and pcase.el and probably several others. Where do we stop, if the criterion is "better and more sensible" (which are highly subjective judgments)? Or are you saying that memory footprint considerations are totally unimportant, and we should preload everything that might possibly be helpful? That's why I suggested to discuss and agree on the criteria first. If we don't agree on some criteria, we will have this argument many times in the future. > (And possibly smaller .elc file, as I said.) I'd like to see the actual numbers, please. And also the memory footprint before and after loading easymenu. With the current code, I see a 0.25MB increase in the VM size after I load easymenu.elc. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 26 11:04:55 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Feb 2021 16:04:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42102 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFfbq-0000bb-Vu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 11:04:55 -0500 Received: from aserp2130.oracle.com ([141.146.126.79]:52294) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFfbp-0000bL-15 for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 11:04:53 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 11QFsowh186630; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 16:04:46 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=ayDuugIoEWR4B++RjZjlpcaHfsU//hP23xQGi4OJNBg=; b=KbsWxG9YpgvDSzwbbuMIHc7wxdVkCBcPSS0Tmw6b73HjqnVx30f/0RxuhjxUokfZQ7z5 AOYgzM0irk9dhPjRpxbfrGT86rQxMKm5Ld6C826/bzovBZnzA5+zyM4B2mk1jv/D4/FG +rntLTEMuiTxCzTXsE7fDpo+N54ceEe61kvmyNqfpbSEPWTDOofXz6UVQT12rxAVpE4j zDT8sLa/GaCXyR4vv1CjKkG8mAuqxPaFGqClZr3VUtdP9BFbLiC9FQ/25ENyEvtTX5I8 mMyILVx8Of71hw/zwo7yk9qESzvvQxocMRTLEcIjm4NsU0y+PBsZgu4FC+U+Nn3kXnAO Yw== Received: from userp3020.oracle.com (userp3020.oracle.com [156.151.31.79]) by aserp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 36vr62cudg-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); 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Fri, 26 Feb 2021 16:04:43 +0000 Received: from SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b8d2:db6d:3e4b:d315]) by SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b8d2:db6d:3e4b:d315%5]) with mapi id 15.20.3868.034; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 16:04:43 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: [External] : bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands Thread-Index: AQHXDDgNhRr8JgGgWU6er5RkjQmWG6pqmNqw Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 16:04:43 +0000 Message-ID: References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> <831rd6vime.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbc4iyh.fsf@gmx.net> <20A0FFE1-60BC-4BB0-A840-15D8D39D1B1D@gnu.org> <87y2fc420p.fsf@gnus.org> <83ft1krwuz.fsf@gnu.org> <87czwo401x.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmwroxu.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7lzmcz4.fsf@gnus.org> <83blc7qbld.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbbkp6h.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <87lfbbkp6h.fsf@gnus.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: gnus.org; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 7f0abb6a-0b26-402c-6f84-08d8da703b09 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 26 Feb 2021 16:04:43.2709 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: Gq1nLvt00oN7peTv4POntFXhQ+Oc3qDIqX1/QfIdVMf3xtpbYp7YSwB4e2iBemdiQ2cR/4RbQKVOVp3bBUil9w== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SA2PR10MB4411 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6200 definitions=9907 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2102260121 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6200 definitions=9907 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 clxscore=1011 mlxlogscore=999 lowpriorityscore=0 phishscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2102260121 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: "stephen.berman@gmx.net" , "stefan@marxist.se" , "24774@debbugs.gnu.org" <24774@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > maybe it's a reason good enough not to use easymenu in elisp-mode.el? > > Why do we want to do that, again? >=20 > Because it's a better, more sensible way to define menus. If that were true then it would be an argument for getting rid of extended menu items and defining menus using define-key altogether. Are you arguing for that also? If not, why not? IOW, how about a "better" - meaning more refined or precise - reason for what you want to do? "It's better" is not what I'd call a great argument. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 26 23:31:00 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Feb 2021 04:31:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42980 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFrFs-0002es-Bb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 23:31:00 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:43348) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFrFr-0002YX-7M for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 23:30:59 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=hNbRrcNuPsJ1DJHZetqScdTZlKAL42FLrjtjKZ+Np0s=; b=nwYQqO13sMMHs8gwfsjvhqsyib SHsDI4Nw0n6cYlk2+2YDGqvd7YeVakzHWNU56sKg2mKFn+tksyganC7V+v0ybE07rgIXZP+fz61vI E+X/cSiS3/UW8iBUoJ/eBQkPpVxXzeb0dVCyISTTNIUVXtpcz/rqSu0vXOcbJ4fN6Wr8=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lFrFZ-0001t8-Dx; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 05:30:51 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> <831rd6vime.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbc4iyh.fsf@gmx.net> <20A0FFE1-60BC-4BB0-A840-15D8D39D1B1D@gnu.org> <87y2fc420p.fsf@gnus.org> <83ft1krwuz.fsf@gnu.org> <87czwo401x.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmwroxu.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7lzmcz4.fsf@gnus.org> <83blc7qbld.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbbkp6h.fsf@gnus.org> <838s7bqai9.fsf@gnu.org> X-Now-Playing: Tuxedomoon's _Live in London (1982)_: "Courante Marocaine" Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 05:30:39 +0100 In-Reply-To: <838s7bqai9.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 26 Feb 2021 14:27:58 +0200") Message-ID: <8735xiku8g.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Because it's a better, more sensible way to define menus. > > But the same argument can be brought up for cl-macs.el and cl-lib.el > and seq.el and map.el and pcase.el and probably several others. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, stefan@marxist.se, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Because it's a better, more sensible way to define menus. > > But the same argument can be brought up for cl-macs.el and cl-lib.el > and seq.el and map.el and pcase.el and probably several others. Yes, of course. > Where do we stop, if the criterion is "better and more sensible" > (which are highly subjective judgments)? I don't think anybody claims that the non-easymenu way of defining menus is superior? Our most important code is the one that is in the very core of Emacs, and it's a shame we don't use more of these libraries there, and instead open-code stuff badly. easymenu.el is over-ripe for preloading since it's very hard to do much in Emacs without it being pulled in anyway -- so you get no space savings in practice, but just a slower Emacs. >> (And possibly smaller .elc file, as I said.) > > I'd like to see the actual numbers, please. And also the memory > footprint before and after loading easymenu. With the current code, I > see a 0.25MB increase in the VM size after I load easymenu.elc. Pre patch: larsi@xo:~/src/emacs/trunk$ ls -l src/emacs src/emacs.pdmp lisp/progmodes/elisp-mode.elc -rw-r--r-- 1 larsi larsi 60375 Feb 27 05:09 lisp/progmodes/elisp-mode.elc -rwxr-xr-x 2 larsi larsi 32583784 Feb 27 05:10 src/emacs -rw-r--r-- 2 larsi larsi 10630544 Feb 27 05:10 src/emacs.pdmp Post patch: larsi@xo:~/src/emacs/trunk$ ls -l src/emacs src/emacs.pdmp lisp/progmodes/elisp-mode.elc -rw-r--r-- 1 larsi larsi 58798 Feb 27 05:21 lisp/progmodes/elisp-mode.elc -rwxr-xr-x 2 larsi larsi 32583784 Feb 27 05:21 src/emacs -rw-r--r-- 2 larsi larsi 10632360 Feb 27 05:21 src/emacs.pdmp (- (+ 10632360 58798) (+ 10630544 60375)) => 239 bytes. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 27 00:27:37 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Feb 2021 05:27:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43057 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFs8e-0003C3-SW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 00:27:37 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:44022) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFs8c-0003Bp-UF for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 00:27:35 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=t1EWSqrdWAtT29THi0LHxApESy3SmRA1SIZ5kGrDbgM=; b=T2fEUC2gLtcE1+vzrDVgZk5fkT yfrctkyvuMOHqLpy1rhzzQkms/8pf32NDz6UrkU1SoPjdh5b2rk6MMX06G7DUAqapeLu6tnAxcmd4 0NeBaGWInKuTr+xcz5ZXHOtBBrsn98CXYuJ/pFCVe8bUi0Ep9f6brlFv/1+JQuDnx0pE=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lFs8T-0002Og-D3; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 06:27:27 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> <831rd6vime.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbc4iyh.fsf@gmx.net> <20A0FFE1-60BC-4BB0-A840-15D8D39D1B1D@gnu.org> <87y2fc420p.fsf@gnus.org> <83ft1krwuz.fsf@gnu.org> <87czwo401x.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmwroxu.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7lzmcz4.fsf@gnus.org> <83blc7qbld.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbbkp6h.fsf@gnus.org> <838s7bqai9.fsf@gnu.org> <8735xiku8g.fsf@gnus.org> X-Now-Playing: Tuxedomoon's _Live in London (1982)_: "Desire" Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 06:27:23 +0100 In-Reply-To: <8735xiku8g.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sat, 27 Feb 2021 05:30:39 +0100") Message-ID: <87zgzqhyh0.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > larsi@xo:~/src/emacs/trunk$ ls -l src/emacs src/emacs.pdmp > lisp/progmodes/elisp-mode.elc > -rw-r--r-- 1 larsi larsi 58798 Feb 27 05:21 lisp/progmodes/elisp-mode.elc > -rwxr-xr-x 2 larsi larsi 3258 [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, stefan@marxist.se, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > larsi@xo:~/src/emacs/trunk$ ls -l src/emacs src/emacs.pdmp > lisp/progmodes/elisp-mode.elc > -rw-r--r-- 1 larsi larsi 58798 Feb 27 05:21 lisp/progmodes/elisp-mode.elc > -rwxr-xr-x 2 larsi larsi 32583784 Feb 27 05:21 src/emacs > -rw-r--r-- 2 larsi larsi 10632360 Feb 27 05:21 src/emacs.pdmp > > (- (+ 10632360 58798) (+ 10630544 60375)) => 239 bytes. Err. That's counting the elisp-mode.elc size reduction twice, since it's included in the .pdmp file, I guess. So it's (- 10632360 10630544) => 1816 bytes -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 27 01:15:02 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Feb 2021 06:15:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43065 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFssY-0004O5-G4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 01:15:02 -0500 Received: from aserp2130.oracle.com ([141.146.126.79]:57980) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFssW-0004NK-00 for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 01:15:00 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 11R6929N006938; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 06:14:49 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; 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Sat, 27 Feb 2021 06:14:45 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: [External] : bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands Thread-Index: AQHXDMFjgW0XUczUy0aBO3m0pIW1EaprgDjg Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 06:14:45 +0000 Message-ID: References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> <831rd6vime.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbc4iyh.fsf@gmx.net> <20A0FFE1-60BC-4BB0-A840-15D8D39D1B1D@gnu.org> <87y2fc420p.fsf@gnus.org> <83ft1krwuz.fsf@gnu.org> <87czwo401x.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmwroxu.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7lzmcz4.fsf@gnus.org> <83blc7qbld.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbbkp6h.fsf@gnus.org> <838s7bqai9.fsf@gnu.org> <8735xiku8g.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <8735xiku8g.fsf@gnus.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: gnus.org; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c8bfb764-b1bd-4ba4-8346-08d8dae6fad6 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 27 Feb 2021 06:14:45.7565 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: Lg5NoCP8nllpkbIbjn++X6YAk25TwMjk/cfevoOjs4hbg/AZe/kqsUICCpnQ7no66Emocqo7/rj/777q9+J8qA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SA2PR10MB4636 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6200 definitions=9907 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2102270046 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6200 definitions=9907 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 impostorscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 malwarescore=0 priorityscore=1501 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2102270046 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: "stephen.berman@gmx.net" , "stefan@marxist.se" , "24774@debbugs.gnu.org" <24774@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > Where do we stop, if the criterion is "better and more sensible" > > (which are highly subjective judgments)? >=20 > I don't think anybody claims that the non-easymenu > way of defining menus is superior? I'm somebody, and I claimed that explicitly. And I gave reasons why I find it superior. You can ignore my posts, but that doesn't annul their arguments. You, on the other hand, haven't provided any reason for what you want to do (except "smaller .elc file"). An empty claim of "it's better" is not a great argument. > easymenu.el is over-ripe for preloading since it's very hard to do much > in Emacs without it being pulled in anyway -- so you get no space > savings in practice, but just a slower Emacs. How is it "very hard to do much in Emacs" without pulling in easymenu? It's easymenu that's redundant, not "the non-easymenu way". Your claim that easymenu is a "better, more sensible way to define menus", and your claims that everything that can be done the "non-easymenu way" can be done with easymenu (and better and more sensibly), call out for replacing the non-easymenu way altogether. Are you arguing in favor of that? If not, why not? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 27 02:44:15 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Feb 2021 07:44:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43126 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFuGs-0006ZF-UW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 02:44:15 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39870) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFuGr-0006Z1-88 for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 02:44:13 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:56598) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lFuGk-0002aO-Cz; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 02:44:07 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1439 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lFuGj-0003Bd-JT; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 02:44:06 -0500 Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 09:43:55 +0200 Message-Id: <837dmuoszo.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <8735xiku8g.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Sat, 27 Feb 2021 05:30:39 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> <831rd6vime.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbc4iyh.fsf@gmx.net> <20A0FFE1-60BC-4BB0-A840-15D8D39D1B1D@gnu.org> <87y2fc420p.fsf@gnus.org> <83ft1krwuz.fsf@gnu.org> <87czwo401x.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmwroxu.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7lzmcz4.fsf@gnus.org> <83blc7qbld.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbbkp6h.fsf@gnus.org> <838s7bqai9.fsf@gnu.org> <8735xiku8g.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, stefan@marxist.se, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, stefan@marxist.se, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 05:30:39 +0100 > > > But the same argument can be brought up for cl-macs.el and cl-lib.el > > and seq.el and map.el and pcase.el and probably several others. > > Yes, of course. > > > Where do we stop, if the criterion is "better and more sensible" > > (which are highly subjective judgments)? > > I don't think anybody claims that the non-easymenu way of defining menus > is superior? It isn't a catastrophe, IMO, not even close. Non-easymenu: (bindings--define-key prof-map [prof-natprof-stop] '(menu-item "Stop Native Profiler" profiler-stop :help "Stop recording profiling information" :enable (and (featurep 'profiler) (profiler-running-p)))) With easymenu: ["Show trailing whitespace" whitespace-mode :style toggle :selected (bound-and-true-p whitespace-mode) :help "Show trailing whitespace in modified lines"] There's some boilerplate in the former, but it isn't unreadable, and writing it is just a bunch of C-y's in addition to the actual content, which must be typed in both cases. It isn't superior, but is it so awfully inferior? I don't think so. > Our most important code is the one that is in the very core of Emacs, > and it's a shame we don't use more of these libraries there, and instead > open-code stuff badly. I disagree with "shame" and "badly". Next we will see similar arguments about all the other packages mentioned above. Again, I think we should agree on some criteria, because otherwise we will not be able to reconcile subjective opinions about stylistic issues. > > I'd like to see the actual numbers, please. And also the memory > > footprint before and after loading easymenu. With the current code, I > > see a 0.25MB increase in the VM size after I load easymenu.elc. > > Pre patch: > > larsi@xo:~/src/emacs/trunk$ ls -l src/emacs src/emacs.pdmp lisp/progmodes/elisp-mode.elc > -rw-r--r-- 1 larsi larsi 60375 Feb 27 05:09 lisp/progmodes/elisp-mode.elc > -rwxr-xr-x 2 larsi larsi 32583784 Feb 27 05:10 src/emacs > -rw-r--r-- 2 larsi larsi 10630544 Feb 27 05:10 src/emacs.pdmp > > Post patch: > > larsi@xo:~/src/emacs/trunk$ ls -l src/emacs src/emacs.pdmp lisp/progmodes/elisp-mode.elc > -rw-r--r-- 1 larsi larsi 58798 Feb 27 05:21 lisp/progmodes/elisp-mode.elc > -rwxr-xr-x 2 larsi larsi 32583784 Feb 27 05:21 src/emacs > -rw-r--r-- 2 larsi larsi 10632360 Feb 27 05:21 src/emacs.pdmp > > (- (+ 10632360 58798) (+ 10630544 60375)) => 239 bytes. Thanks, but I meant the runtime memory footprint, not the size on disk (which IMO is of no importance, as long as small savings are being discussed). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 27 06:51:14 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Feb 2021 11:51:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43271 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFy7u-00049V-J6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 06:51:14 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:46812) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFy7s-00049I-DF for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 06:51:13 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=VdYb5aWnDCkvGGotB/2HaTTTSMkwajmVPITT9UKelKU=; b=n/1PQ4Z2YtxQN1kPZM3t4Jz4Vl FEJ/v2JjJ2XzBIA5WtoJmsrH9Zic2ii3tVYT1AgLrpgRlWLJd6oRGSbibAy4SXGWa0MW7Dot7wKAX HZrBlezG13Jj9Eco+V5d//WmWBJsqwHAL/exNNeDGxx6Umo7dtX42f2aoX+g4YlpzjKo=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lFy7h-0005OP-3r; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 12:51:05 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> <831rd6vime.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbc4iyh.fsf@gmx.net> <20A0FFE1-60BC-4BB0-A840-15D8D39D1B1D@gnu.org> <87y2fc420p.fsf@gnus.org> <83ft1krwuz.fsf@gnu.org> <87czwo401x.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmwroxu.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7lzmcz4.fsf@gnus.org> <83blc7qbld.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbbkp6h.fsf@gnus.org> <838s7bqai9.fsf@gnu.org> <8735xiku8g.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmuoszo.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAD1BMVEXy7eOooJmVdX1V UE3///9S8P2CAAAAAWJLR0QEj2jZUQAAAAd0SU1FB+UCGwsyBJHN3OYAAAG3SURBVDjLbVQLgusg CMS8Cwi5QMELNHL/u+0AxrRvl/6Mo8yAY4mIeEWnjqfGPR4wIrGK4dTcZ45jCbWeK3tzMfc37Rju sX4atjLLswOABkVNfaS6OSK0P5m+ANMSRGT2yt/Td2ReatRy5TOfggEw+39RwPG1OISHdulgHj7H Wok3l4JO9kcoYQc1qNWtdUkfL7TWxr1yqEnSBPmX0tiqXKow+JAJapW/ABOxVUemKub44iOK7g19 aljCebxLkfQEPslzn9pvVej0oTomqwTwkGskm0keBdIGBEqXOpAf41fbJYB23jWMRZ8BQPzFkudS gutEegBAunhuWenLI3jExBUJr8h7lY+z8jNqFz+vc24OLnOHz9BAeeSiDjgsTZbm/+cdGmBIfhzZ Yl98xNbgDg6QSGXgMhTQCoD6CfejfZOMF4DZc9IBk+FIEmDJ2ze4r67NfvpFYTpgk0Z7zv4ER444 LWMDJkMGOA1MOR8MreqUdc0CQHfx4nW72yrgkvGO3fvs57rQae67cnT6Eu83YE/p4u/2AehqWBhj dyi7X/3MPwO7u5pHo3HcoQpu24xatuV9+Sp+APi/ejt/qMtWAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAy MDIxLTAyLTI3VDExOjUwOjA0KzAwOjAwg0Tc0wAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMS0wMi0y N1QxMTo1MDowNCswMDowMPIZZG8AAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Fly Pan Am's _C'est =?utf-8?Q?=C3=A7a=5F=3A?= "Bleeding Decay" Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 12:50:59 +0100 In-Reply-To: <837dmuoszo.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 27 Feb 2021 09:43:55 +0200") Message-ID: <87v9adiva4.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > Thanks, but I meant the runtime memory footprint, not the size on disk > (which IMO is of no importance, as long as small savings are being > discussed). Without patch: Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, stefan@marxist.se, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > Thanks, but I meant the runtime memory footprint, not the size on disk > (which IMO is of no importance, as long as small savings are being > discussed). Without patch: larsi 958039 11.5 0.3 355040 61504 pts/0 Sl 12:47 0:00 ./src/emacs -Q larsi 958573 12.0 0.3 355036 61440 pts/0 Sl 12:48 0:00 ./src/emacs -Q larsi 958833 11.5 0.3 355036 61364 pts/0 Sl 12:48 0:00 ./src/emacs -Q With patch: larsi 959730 11.5 0.3 354940 61560 pts/0 Sl 12:48 0:00 ./src/emacs -Q larsi 959992 11.5 0.3 354940 61132 pts/0 Sl 12:48 0:00 ./src/emacs -Q larsi 960242 11.5 0.3 355012 61704 pts/0 Sl 12:48 0:00 ./src/emacs -Q Tested with bash -c "./src/emacs -Q&" ; sleep 2; ps auxwww | grep "[.]/src/emacs" -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 27 07:56:35 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Feb 2021 12:56:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43362 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFz99-0007q1-HI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 07:56:35 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49904) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFz98-0007po-DF for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 07:56:34 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:58939) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lFz92-0006XM-4s; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 07:56:28 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:4978 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lFz91-0005uc-JA; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 07:56:27 -0500 Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 14:56:18 +0200 Message-Id: <83r1l1oej1.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87v9adiva4.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Sat, 27 Feb 2021 12:50:59 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> <831rd6vime.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbc4iyh.fsf@gmx.net> <20A0FFE1-60BC-4BB0-A840-15D8D39D1B1D@gnu.org> <87y2fc420p.fsf@gnus.org> <83ft1krwuz.fsf@gnu.org> <87czwo401x.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmwroxu.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7lzmcz4.fsf@gnus.org> <83blc7qbld.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbbkp6h.fsf@gnus.org> <838s7bqai9.fsf@gnu.org> <8735xiku8g.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmuoszo.fsf@gnu.org> <87v9adiva4.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, stefan@marxist.se, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, stefan@marxist.se, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 12:50:59 +0100 > > Without patch: > > larsi 958039 11.5 0.3 355040 61504 pts/0 Sl 12:47 0:00 ./src/emacs -Q > larsi 958573 12.0 0.3 355036 61440 pts/0 Sl 12:48 0:00 ./src/emacs -Q > larsi 958833 11.5 0.3 355036 61364 pts/0 Sl 12:48 0:00 ./src/emacs -Q > > With patch: > > larsi 959730 11.5 0.3 354940 61560 pts/0 Sl 12:48 0:00 ./src/emacs -Q > larsi 959992 11.5 0.3 354940 61132 pts/0 Sl 12:48 0:00 ./src/emacs -Q > larsi 960242 11.5 0.3 355012 61704 pts/0 Sl 12:48 0:00 ./src/emacs -Q > > > Tested with > > bash -c "./src/emacs -Q&" ; sleep 2; ps auxwww | grep "[.]/src/emacs" Sounds inconsistent? Do you understand why? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 27 08:25:35 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Feb 2021 13:25:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43377 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFzbD-0008Vl-Do for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 08:25:35 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:47510) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFzaz-0008VI-Ex for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 08:25:33 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=HxDg/fKLkMNuKtKY+9yWhsOPWZLFyANQgAImjASX8iY=; b=mwfd05xm4iH80BIYLl78xbYDZg MNAq1GCzWYrLjt8RI+nO3+J0UxtP1i8GGMxzObhm7sqwFW2Z9kp5PgLBTE+rajp0hnUcJTh/PFNBN TavH1nKf99OtePHIWVl4byw5TQmLYvBodL43av0jK5/dEqlHtkHQ0drw7DuWX0eUpBcw=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lFzap-0006WD-Ez; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 14:25:13 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> <831rd6vime.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbc4iyh.fsf@gmx.net> <20A0FFE1-60BC-4BB0-A840-15D8D39D1B1D@gnu.org> <87y2fc420p.fsf@gnus.org> <83ft1krwuz.fsf@gnu.org> <87czwo401x.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmwroxu.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7lzmcz4.fsf@gnus.org> <83blc7qbld.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbbkp6h.fsf@gnus.org> <838s7bqai9.fsf@gnu.org> <8735xiku8g.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmuoszo.fsf@gnu.org> <87v9adiva4.fsf@gnus.org> <83r1l1oej1.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAADFBMVEXt49Tws6X3YVj/ //9yIEcRAAAAAWJLR0QDEQxM8gAAAAd0SU1FB+UCGw0GEtq+5vIAAAE+SURBVCjPnZLBasMwDIbl 4oyuJwfiwnJfoX0KBZoedlIgDltOOaxj61P0tHM7KPQBktL6KScrTe6bwcaf/UeRfhngn0M5hyOU AHbYR+GS7pCMCx8GvVU4qFhU0qBSDlWv46OIHKwFWGy7tzKT73kuSOWIPbjXxpKABjh/lDNCwzAF db7oTUkBnlaT5khZQiF26o+HE1otMPcXrBC14dyh8C1xObpoGTJXkFkbVV0lgSXE68RubgIpzHUS vfQww0eyLh0gYkfuMMl5T6sAOT4TF2h3AeJrhcEsH0KbbWbYFPoJPzWzIkalslzA3nSo2DShOLPc BtgLLHwnVh7CWnifcdYghnwLTHt/a3+zCJ9KTIx3vj65dwkJD/bLseNGYIKJrfbNvZEEkcu7sXOR q9uh2ayox3ZbqWEYzv3l2fwCz29Ia1iemN0AAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjEtMDItMjdU MTM6MDY6MTcrMDA6MDBiE6+eAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOm1vZGlmeQAyMDIxLTAyLTI3VDEzOjA2OjE3 KzAwOjAwE04XIgAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: Renaldo and the Loaf's _Songs for Swinging Larvae & Songs from the Surgery_: "Bustle The Burgoo" Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 14:25:10 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83r1l1oej1.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 27 Feb 2021 14:56:18 +0200") Message-ID: <87mtvpiqx5.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > Sounds inconsistent? Do you understand why? Nope -- Emacs is of different size every time I start it. Address randomisation leading to different malloc/free/return-to-OS patterns? Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, stefan@marxist.se, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > Sounds inconsistent? Do you understand why? Nope -- Emacs is of different size every time I start it. Address randomisation leading to different malloc/free/return-to-OS patterns? Anyway, there's no noticeable difference in mean size with or without the patch in these runs, apparently. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 27 08:33:00 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Feb 2021 13:33:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43386 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFziN-0000Fb-PF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 08:33:00 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:56944) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFziM-0000FP-6p for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 08:32:58 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:59622) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lFziG-0006LM-Hj; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 08:32:52 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3279 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lFziF-0000m3-IU; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 08:32:52 -0500 Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 15:32:43 +0200 Message-Id: <83mtvpocuc.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87mtvpiqx5.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Sat, 27 Feb 2021 14:25:10 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> <831rd6vime.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbc4iyh.fsf@gmx.net> <20A0FFE1-60BC-4BB0-A840-15D8D39D1B1D@gnu.org> <87y2fc420p.fsf@gnus.org> <83ft1krwuz.fsf@gnu.org> <87czwo401x.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmwroxu.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7lzmcz4.fsf@gnus.org> <83blc7qbld.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbbkp6h.fsf@gnus.org> <838s7bqai9.fsf@gnu.org> <8735xiku8g.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmuoszo.fsf@gnu.org> <87v9adiva4.fsf@gnus.org> <83r1l1oej1.fsf@gnu.org> <87mtvpiqx5.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, stefan@marxist.se, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, stefan@marxist.se, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 14:25:10 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > Sounds inconsistent? Do you understand why? > > Nope -- Emacs is of different size every time I start it. Address > randomisation leading to different malloc/free/return-to-OS patterns? I'm not talking about the initial size, I'm talking about the difference between the RSS of the two variants: it is sometimes positive and sometimes negative. > Anyway, there's no noticeable difference in mean size with or without > the patch in these runs, apparently. Yes, I think so. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 27 08:49:34 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Feb 2021 13:49:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43407 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFzyP-0000dA-VG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 08:49:34 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:47672) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFzyO-0000cx-Mo for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 08:49:33 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=3MehtnGoUtw+MRK3JnCKe+tr80AHhwUWQbIBqNQpfCw=; b=k6y7WxeB43BfRFdHsF+JswAOgL ll8PT/REK9i/jYTPr99qtbK787wi4EWi2w3cmFQu8Ldr5sBNbN1YhnvbDszvy7WCYIMSJimkcRkwL O9HRQo34KXKPLyuO4Ei1T8CgXULqf2GGbF49tDnGqVzG5tif3tYU7QlTxDUPsynJ71xk=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lFzy8-0006gt-0w; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 14:49:25 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> <831rd6vime.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbc4iyh.fsf@gmx.net> <20A0FFE1-60BC-4BB0-A840-15D8D39D1B1D@gnu.org> <87y2fc420p.fsf@gnus.org> <83ft1krwuz.fsf@gnu.org> <87czwo401x.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmwroxu.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7lzmcz4.fsf@gnus.org> <83blc7qbld.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbbkp6h.fsf@gnus.org> <838s7bqai9.fsf@gnu.org> <8735xiku8g.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmuoszo.fsf@gnu.org> <87v9adiva4.fsf@gnus.org> <83r1l1oej1.fsf@gnu.org> <87mtvpiqx5.fsf@gnus.org> <83mtvpocuc.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAG1BMVEX7+/vU09mZl6gw L1MyM1tMR2OuZ1RDkuD///9Q5OlWAAAAAWJLR0QIht6VegAAAAd0SU1FB+UCGw0qCB7tdCYAAAGe SURBVDjLndTBcoIwEABQcMa7pNKzBJieSwK9tibUayGsXlut+YDOOPx+NwGUIJd2Z8wQnrsbRxbP +3sQOhMbhJjNxKsByVgJXTRmUUzKjx64FFLKbsUtEwNMYwDu3M3xY0FgKS5uECjRwbvWqq9g15Vi VzjbYjy1UA49DPQZ4DRHsMKz+B70Cc/2HDYOCA0WRJ0R7kAhCn1iNSMrF0rBC+wCebDeKHtiLoce p73Wx8wHEk9As1wEn4SuE1tL3gDOe7rY+Ko77wi0/qIJCVOuv5l04UggLGuJyXjfgQRiyAWYk7ul 4iyOavWIvxaEkxFFsKXrvd24PUjD6bKwm2YEtEqAszS/g4BuqcojjpdPP8rCm+f7tK3TqEJQhxZj ALy8ZCwjwCq2s/DaQYo7gMyv1LZsxxlegik1+Fmcty4ssXJZL3kDUzC7/EHu2h76Ht7C7C7918cZ i13rxBU8BeOEERCC/7SpBhPwfNU/8HwCKGachBQvE8ABslMm2WECoZk/wTEG2PazreQwDKCGUbtF 9/Bex3n2BRDMxeof755fazH0fhKzwasAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjEtMDItMjdUMTM6 NDI6MDgrMDA6MDDhwwwRAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOm1vZGlmeQAyMDIxLTAyLTI3VDEzOjQyOjA4KzAw OjAwkJ60rQAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: Move D & Pete Namlook's _Reissued 001_: "Footer" Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 14:49:14 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83mtvpocuc.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 27 Feb 2021 15:32:43 +0200") Message-ID: <87im6dipt1.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Nope -- Emacs is of different size every time I start it. Address >> randomisation leading to different malloc/free/return-to-OS patterns? > > I'm not talking about the initial size, I'm talking ab [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, stefan@marxist.se, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Nope -- Emacs is of different size every time I start it. Address >> randomisation leading to different malloc/free/return-to-OS patterns? > > I'm not talking about the initial size, I'm talking about the > difference between the RSS of the two variants: it is sometimes > positive and sometimes negative. I'm not sure I understand you here -- there's no initial size in the ps output, only virtual size and resident set size? I don't get the "sometimes positive and sometimes" negative either -- there were three runs of Emacsen started (with and without the patch), and both numbers varied in all instances. >> Anyway, there's no noticeable difference in mean size with or without >> the patch in these runs, apparently. > > Yes, I think so. The mean RSS sizes were 61436 and 61465, which is not a noticeable difference. But I may be misunderstanding what you mean here either. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 27 08:58:44 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Feb 2021 13:58:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43431 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lG07I-0000sa-8J for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 08:58:44 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60404) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lG07G-0000sM-DB for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 08:58:43 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:59896) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lG079-0001J9-SC; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 08:58:36 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:4854 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lG077-0004Pn-Eh; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 08:58:35 -0500 Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 15:58:24 +0200 Message-Id: <83lfb9obnj.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87im6dipt1.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Sat, 27 Feb 2021 14:49:14 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> <831rd6vime.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbc4iyh.fsf@gmx.net> <20A0FFE1-60BC-4BB0-A840-15D8D39D1B1D@gnu.org> <87y2fc420p.fsf@gnus.org> <83ft1krwuz.fsf@gnu.org> <87czwo401x.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmwroxu.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7lzmcz4.fsf@gnus.org> <83blc7qbld.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbbkp6h.fsf@gnus.org> <838s7bqai9.fsf@gnu.org> <8735xiku8g.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmuoszo.fsf@gnu.org> <87v9adiva4.fsf@gnus.org> <83r1l1oej1.fsf@gnu.org> <87mtvpiqx5.fsf@gnus.org> <83mtvpocuc.fsf@gnu.org> <87im6dipt1.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, stefan@marxist.se, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, stefan@marxist.se, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 14:49:14 +0100 > > The mean RSS sizes were 61436 and 61465, which is not a noticeable > difference. I'm not sure the average is representative here, given the variance. But anyway, the difference is too small to invest any more energy into this aspect. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 27 09:24:34 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Feb 2021 14:24:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43492 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lG0WH-0003kJ-RZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 09:24:34 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:47910) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lG0WF-0003k3-PR for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 09:24:32 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=mMwKvB3+H+0HBHIAlyjscQ9LkWtaJiz/sePZdnedVBI=; b=HPIC1s3Wia+FnK4IXM80xX8jy7 lhRMzXCLAE7p4TpfpLyoAxLejDOAOYCZLhf410mqDmK9286h9WR9dMSe9M8BviTsLuyslc79i20Vq EJr25iFGNeMP61tHrld32UiVHppH5vYYzorjvZYYFC+KS5C9ku71+oExUF4DlsVGPXww=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lG0W4-0006td-S4; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 15:24:25 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <831rd6vime.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbc4iyh.fsf@gmx.net> <20A0FFE1-60BC-4BB0-A840-15D8D39D1B1D@gnu.org> <87y2fc420p.fsf@gnus.org> <83ft1krwuz.fsf@gnu.org> <87czwo401x.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmwroxu.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7lzmcz4.fsf@gnus.org> <83blc7qbld.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbbkp6h.fsf@gnus.org> <838s7bqai9.fsf@gnu.org> <8735xiku8g.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmuoszo.fsf@gnu.org> <87v9adiva4.fsf@gnus.org> <83r1l1oej1.fsf@gnu.org> <87mtvpiqx5.fsf@gnus.org> <83mtvpocuc.fsf@gnu.org> <87im6dipt1.fsf@gnus.org> <83lfb9obnj.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAG1BMVEUMBQsqHSw9LkJa R1ZLOk1lV2tiUmWNgIz///+Yq8ziAAAAAWJLR0QIht6VegAAAAd0SU1FB+UCGw4RAsDMzFkAAAGk SURBVDjLrZPBUoNADIaT2gfYBcYzu3U8K1n3jMD0DbaeBcsbOLy+CSxQdb2ZgSn5v/7JJi0AgAYA tNESmbUKUBIQkW9UMAdKninWcEluQ4sJ1J5rpSFWwBNUmw7ZXq0IQM+7ZXsqQgBtl6+pW/DimvWR u4HZEmst7HWXc6BSiNo+QGM08mREHesnoleZ8zxyc5KJciKqVEE0fDRa4UsQwGPSHI6cJfJG4XUG JRQLoNrCyY+NwjCDGvIIFKqcfKWLBVQbMFaz40M/LoC6qPdYFeTHka4RrKGxyVgfRb8FLlNHdc9g /AkMj3iXcJDs6phwkOzqkHLIDvPvYCDPPcRw8dfLXspP09s0fcrSJ4ndEYLYuQeGtyDXr+YokydP 5WPvW+DFMaZA+X+g/gPInzUNnqDEVd+B9/4J6gSYe7z/0Rzf4ZwGfXIlVB96GOIOv4NjP293+wW7 DQzaD/va3QpKLtVSPNcMXCt6Wx6dnsF4jaW61gmoc8cvhI+lWtdxtORa/mgMk1iqi8HcZtYUay2g lXTW4IN4h6WHW/WGX27byQkH6fIFbI7eJls64ykAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjEtMDIt MjdUMTQ6MTc6MDIrMDA6MDCvvjIBAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOm1vZGlmeQAyMDIxLTAyLTI3VDE0OjE3 OjAyKzAwOjAw3uOKvQAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: Peter Zummo's _Deep Drive_: "Deep Drive" Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 15:24:14 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83lfb9obnj.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 27 Feb 2021 15:58:24 +0200") Message-ID: <871rd1io6p.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > I'm not sure the average is representative here, given the variance. > But anyway, the difference is too small to invest any more energy into > this aspect. OK; applying and pushing Stefan's patch, then. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, stefan@marxist.se, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > I'm not sure the average is representative here, given the variance. > But anyway, the difference is too small to invest any more energy into > this aspect. OK; applying and pushing Stefan's patch, then. And then somebody could take a look at actually implementing the stuff this bug report is really about. :-) -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 27 09:58:55 2021 Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Feb 2021 14:58:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45131 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lG13W-0004vC-QE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 09:58:54 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:48730) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lG13U-0004uz-VJ for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 09:58:53 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=DBpVS0r3VSx3yu/Nk7CGKmDQm4KuOl7Ugac4dgSHetc=; b=abvx5jqx07n8fh0tVyKtTIK3oG ET/6YtwSvFvEVjmsv7kdiSN6bm7ihZF4nfL+gBk0VdWSA0TJztKGR9EvHoDn2hAg9aA4nd7LfBkFP siamLpfJSY4nPvyPJfYi+c6GwowG4V4cLpKmr1GHOEtFHyKwk/63D2nGsmkbBUgB9JKQ=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lG13I-0007Bs-Li; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 15:58:46 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Andreas =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=B6hler?= Subject: Re: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87r26bhaze.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> X-Now-Playing: The Raincoats's _The Raincoats_: "The Void" Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 15:58:39 +0100 In-Reply-To: ("Andreas =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=B6hler=22's?= message of "Tue, 30 Jul 2019 09:54:24 +0200") Message-ID: <87o8g5pnfk.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Andreas Röhler writes: >>> think it would be a gain if Emacs-lisp menu displays navigation commands. >> What kind of navigation commands? >> > > Stuff like beginning-of-defun, up-list, forward-sexp Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24774 Cc: 24774@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Andreas R=C3=B6hler writes: >>> think it would be a gain if Emacs-lisp menu displays navigation command= s. >> What kind of navigation commands? >> > > Stuff like beginning-of-defun, up-list, forward-sexp OK; added to Emacs 28 now. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 27 09:59:02 2021 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Feb 2021 14:59:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45134 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lG13e-0004vc-0o for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 09:59:02 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:48744) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lG13c-0004vD-2V for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 09:59:00 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=zL/z3z0DxUlcvTTbZhVKpqyhTpJF7UPFgh3m0W0fYDw=; b=tZtOFW1o6vKw1oGJUZaX7gSc3s hcmomQYy+4IaC3Xc8I1kh7AOmC3ocGNuKOF55v0jl2l5kRzKgN++qUtRR0NrT/eJLDziShhNDjA05 qR9+Yj74hvt/d+2Z1PTWsALKvKqvowmxXq6KWn70M5B8FsU+T5w51Lsp/iVrGQceDia4=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lG13U-0007C1-Dn for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 15:58:54 +0100 Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 15:58:51 +0100 Message-Id: <87mtvppnf8.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #24774 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 24774 fixed close 24774 28.1 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 24774 fixed close 24774 28.1 quit From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:48:44 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 11:24:07 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator