From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 26 16:46:56 2016 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Sep 2016 20:46:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36693 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bocng-00036h-7z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 26 Sep 2016 16:46:56 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45510) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bocne-00036V-JI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 26 Sep 2016 16:46:55 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bocnY-0004Em-Lv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 26 Sep 2016 16:46:49 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:44165) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bocnY-0004EU-Iu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 26 Sep 2016 16:46:48 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36454) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bocnW-0004i1-D1 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 26 Sep 2016 16:46:47 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bocnS-0004Bc-61 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 26 Sep 2016 16:46:45 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:34794) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bocnR-0004Al-Ts for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 26 Sep 2016 16:46:42 -0400 Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u8QKkcEK019240 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2016 20:46:39 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u8QKkcar017322 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2016 20:46:38 GMT Received: from abhmp0008.oracle.com (abhmp0008.oracle.com [141.146.116.14]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u8QKkRKk002713 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2016 20:46:37 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <8aaf30c2-ceb2-4803-9e2e-cd10ad8a3802@default> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2016 13:46:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 25.1; Customizing group `text' X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) 1. M-x customize-group RET emacs RET That shows a group named "Text". 2. M-x customize-group RET text RET says "[No match]" There is apparently no such group - at least none reachable using completion. Something seems wrong, somewhere, e.g., for `customize-group'. In GNU Emacs 25.1.1 (x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2016-09-17 built on LAPHROAIG Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: 'configure --without-dbus --without-compress-install CFLAGS=3D-static' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 26 16:55:13 2016 Received: (at 24549) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Sep 2016 20:55:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36700 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bocvh-0003Ih-2d for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 26 Sep 2016 16:55:13 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:47825) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bocvf-0003IS-L8 for 24549@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 26 Sep 2016 16:55:12 -0400 Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u8QKt55C010793 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for <24549@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 26 Sep 2016 20:55:05 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u8QKt4KM024265 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for <24549@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 26 Sep 2016 20:55:04 GMT Received: from abhmp0008.oracle.com (abhmp0008.oracle.com [141.146.116.14]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u8QKsr0l006870 for <24549@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 26 Sep 2016 20:55:04 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <221b04be-29b9-422f-ad53-7ee4ea4016c5@default> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2016 13:54:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: 24549@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: RE: bug#24549: 25.1; Customizing group `text' References: <8aaf30c2-ceb2-4803-9e2e-cd10ad8a3802@default> In-Reply-To: <8aaf30c2-ceb2-4803-9e2e-cd10ad8a3802@default> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24549 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) See this thread of help-gnu-emacs, for more information: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2016-09/msg00162.html From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 27 10:27:40 2016 Received: (at 24549) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Sep 2016 14:27:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37282 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1botM9-0004ER-3u for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2016 10:27:40 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:55381) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1botM4-0004E4-SY for 24549@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2016 10:27:36 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1botLu-0003E6-QM for 24549@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2016 10:27:27 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:36485) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1botLu-0003Dq-O7; Tue, 27 Sep 2016 10:27:22 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1845 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1botLs-0000MJ-AG; Tue, 27 Sep 2016 10:27:20 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2016 17:27:20 +0300 Message-Id: <837f9xct9z.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: <8aaf30c2-ceb2-4803-9e2e-cd10ad8a3802@default> (message from Drew Adams on Mon, 26 Sep 2016 13:46:26 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#24549: 25.1; Customizing group `text' References: <8aaf30c2-ceb2-4803-9e2e-cd10ad8a3802@default> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.0 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24549 Cc: 24549@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.0 (--------) > Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2016 13:46:26 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > > 1. M-x customize-group RET emacs RET > > That shows a group named "Text". > > 2. M-x customize-group RET text RET > > says "[No match]" > > There is apparently no such group - at least none reachable using > completion. The group's _symbol_ is 'wp', "Text" is only its label (a.k.a. :tag): (defgroup wp nil "Support for editing text files." :tag "Text" :group 'emacs) The ELisp manual says: ‘:tag LABEL’ Use LABEL, a string, instead of the item’s name, to label the item in customization menus and buffers. *Don’t use a tag which is ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ substantially different from the item’s real name; that would cause ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ confusion.* ^^^^^^^^^^^ (a.k.a. "do as I say, not as I do"). Unfortunately, this is a very old problem, and the 'wp' thingy is by now probably spread too much, including outside of Emacs, for us to even consider renaming the symbol itself. So I think one band-aid solution could be: . mention the group's symbol in its doc string, so that it could be seen in the Custom buffer; . extend customize-read-group so it also accepts group tags, not just their symbols. Any better ideas? Patches welcome, TIA. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 27 10:49:21 2016 Received: (at 24549) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Sep 2016 14:49:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37297 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bothA-0004zD-T4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2016 10:49:21 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:43105) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1both9-0004z1-OL for 24549@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2016 10:49:20 -0400 Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u8REnDV4017442 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2016 14:49:13 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u8REnCv5006808 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2016 14:49:12 GMT Received: from abhmp0014.oracle.com (abhmp0014.oracle.com [141.146.116.20]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u8REnB02000545; Tue, 27 Sep 2016 14:49:12 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <9eab3611-2ed6-422b-93bc-4270ef1b6082@default> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2016 07:49:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: bug#24549: 25.1; Customizing group `text' References: <8aaf30c2-ceb2-4803-9e2e-cd10ad8a3802@default> <837f9xct9z.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <837f9xct9z.fsf@gnu.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24549 Cc: 24549@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) > The group's _symbol_ is 'wp', "Text" is only its label (a.k.a. :tag): >=20 > (defgroup wp nil > "Support for editing text files." > :tag "Text" > :group 'emacs) Ah yes. I should have checked that. IMHO, this is a gotcha. Emacs itself, especially, should not do this by default. If there is no good way to create an alias for group `text' here, then perhaps we should at least create another group `text', which inherits from this. The problem (gotcha) should be taken care of in some way. > The ELisp manual says: >=20 > =E2=80=98:tag LABEL=E2=80=99 > Use LABEL, a string, instead of the item=E2=80=99s name, to label = the item > in customization menus and buffers. *Don=E2=80=99t use a tag whic= h is > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > substantially different from the item=E2=80=99s real name; that wo= uld cause > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^= ^ > confusion.* > ^^^^^^^^^^^ >=20 > (a.k.a. "do as I say, not as I do"). Exactly. =20 > Unfortunately, this is a very old problem, and the 'wp' thingy is by > now probably spread too much, including outside of Emacs, for us to > even consider renaming the symbol itself. See above. I don't think there is a way to alias it (and then deprecate `wp'. But at least we can make a group `text' that DTRT. > So I think one band-aid solution could be: >=20 > . mention the group's symbol in its doc string, so that it could be > seen in the Custom buffer; Yes, but a user using `M-x customize' and then trying to drill down, will not necessarily take time to read that doc. > . extend customize-read-group so it also accepts group tags, not > just their symbols. That's not a bad idea. But in that case, we would essentially get near-duplicate names for those groups that actually followed the instructions and used a similar (but not identical) name for the tag label. IOW, a tag that is more explicit (e.g. longer) or is an abbreviation of the group name (i.e., shorter) would be present for completion, along with the group name itself. That's not a big problem, IMO. This could indeed be a solution. > Any better ideas? See above. We can create another group, `text', which inherits from `wp'. Emacs itself could move toward using group `text' everywhere. The doc for group `text' could say that `wp' is deprecated (even though there is no code-enforcement via warning etc.). IOW, we can (1) make a group `text' that behaves essentially like `wp' and (2) let users know that `wp' is considered deprecated. Yes, this would mean that both `text' and `wp' would appear for completion. But unlike your proposed solution, this would be a one-off bug fix, and not a generalization that applies to every use of a tag. A priori - i.e., until I hear more pros & cons, I think this would be a better solution that what you suggested. What do you think? One way or another, we need, I think, to make `text' work. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 27 11:06:15 2016 Received: (at 24549) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Sep 2016 15:06:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37302 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1botxT-0005PH-CQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2016 11:06:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39222) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1botxP-0005Oz-3K for 24549@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2016 11:06:10 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1botxH-0002qV-84 for 24549@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2016 11:06:01 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:37132) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1botxH-0002q0-5F; Tue, 27 Sep 2016 11:05:59 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1885 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1botxF-0007e2-Ad; Tue, 27 Sep 2016 11:05:57 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2016 18:05:57 +0300 Message-Id: <83twd1bcx6.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: <9eab3611-2ed6-422b-93bc-4270ef1b6082@default> (message from Drew Adams on Tue, 27 Sep 2016 07:49:09 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#24549: 25.1; Customizing group `text' References: <8aaf30c2-ceb2-4803-9e2e-cd10ad8a3802@default> <837f9xct9z.fsf@gnu.org> <9eab3611-2ed6-422b-93bc-4270ef1b6082@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.0 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24549 Cc: 24549@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.0 (--------) > Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2016 07:49:09 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 24549@debbugs.gnu.org > > > Any better ideas? > > See above. We can create another group, `text', which inherits > from `wp'. Emacs itself could move toward using group `text' > everywhere. The doc for group `text' could say that `wp' is > deprecated (even though there is no code-enforcement via > warning etc.). > > IOW, we can (1) make a group `text' that behaves essentially > like `wp' and (2) let users know that `wp' is considered > deprecated. If this works, it is probably better, yes. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 27 12:58:40 2016 Received: (at 24549) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Sep 2016 16:58:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37344 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1boviK-0008Bk-DP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2016 12:58:40 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:44426) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1boviI-0008BV-NM for 24549@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2016 12:58:39 -0400 Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u8RGwVg7031616 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2016 16:58:32 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u8RGwV6Z009622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2016 16:58:31 GMT Received: from abhmp0013.oracle.com (abhmp0013.oracle.com [141.146.116.19]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u8RGwUDV001394; Tue, 27 Sep 2016 16:58:31 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <2d7216a4-60c9-40fb-95e4-91894284fbee@default> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2016 09:58:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: bug#24549: 25.1; Customizing group `text' References: <<8aaf30c2-ceb2-4803-9e2e-cd10ad8a3802@default>> <<837f9xct9z.fsf@gnu.org>> <<9eab3611-2ed6-422b-93bc-4270ef1b6082@default>> <<83twd1bcx6.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83twd1bcx6.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24549 Cc: 24549@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) > > > Any better ideas? > > > > See above. We can create another group, `text', which inherits > > from `wp'. Emacs itself could move toward using group `text' > > everywhere. The doc for group `text' could say that `wp' is > > deprecated (even though there is no code-enforcement via > > warning etc.). > > > > IOW, we can (1) make a group `text' that behaves essentially > > like `wp' and (2) let users know that `wp' is considered > > deprecated. >=20 > If this works, it is probably better, yes. IOW, something like the code below. Question 1: Why is group `outlines' declared in both cus-edit.el and outline.el? And in outline.el it has a prefix declared, but not in cus-edit.el. Group `outlines' is not _used_ in cus-edit.el, AFAICT. What would happen if we removed group `outlines' from cus-edit.el? (This question has nothing to do with this bug report. Just happened to notice the duplication.) Question 2: Should group `text' inherit directly from group `emacs'? Should it also inherit from group `wp'? I think the answer to both of these is yes. WDYT? Question 3: Should group `wp' still be inherited from, by a group that now inherits from `text'? E.g., should group `tildify' inherit from both `wp' as well as from `text'? I don't think so. If group `text' itself inherits from `wp' then I don't think there is any reason that we need to have other groups still inherit directly from `wp' (as well as from `text'). WDYT? I think that the more we can hide `wp' from users, the better. If it needs to continue to be there for a while, because of possibly existing 3rd-party code, then we should keep it around. But we can try to minimize its obvious exposure. ;;; cus-edit.el ;; No :tag anymore ;; (defgroup wp nil "Support for editing text files. Use group `text' for this instead. Group `wp' is deprecated." :group 'emacs) (defgroup text nil "Support for editing text files." :group 'emacs ;; Inherit from deprecated `wp' for compatibility, for now. :group 'wp) (defgroup outlines nil "Support for hierarchical outlining." :group 'text) (defgroup tex nil "Code related to the TeX formatter." :link '(custom-group-link :tag "Font Lock Faces group" font-lock-faces) :group 'text) ;;; delim-col.el (defgroup columns nil "Prettify columns." :link '(emacs-library-link :tag "Source Lisp File" "delim-col.el") :prefix "delimit-columns-" :group 'text) ;;; lpr.el (defgroup lpr nil "Print Emacs buffer on line printer." :group 'text) ;;; outline.el (defgroup outlines nil "Support for hierarchical outlining." :prefix "outline-" :group 'text) ;;; printing.el (defgroup printing nil "Printing Utilities group." :tag "Printing Utilities" :link '(emacs-library-link :tag "Source Lisp File" "printing.el") :prefix "pr-" :version "22.1" :group 'text :group 'postscript) ;;; ps-print.el (defgroup ps-print nil "PostScript generator for Emacs." :link '(emacs-library-link :tag "Source Lisp File" "ps-print.el") :prefix "ps-" :version "20" :group 'text :group 'postscript) ;;; view.el (defgroup view nil "Peruse file or buffer without editing." :link '(function-link view-mode) :link '(custom-manual "(emacs)Misc File Ops") :group 'text) ;;; nxml/rng-valid.el (defgroup relax-ng nil "Validation of XML using RELAX NG." :group 'text :group 'nxml :group 'languages) ;;; obsolete/scribe.el (defgroup scribe nil "Scribe mode." :prefix "scribe-" :group 'text) ;;; progmodes/ebnf2ps.el (defgroup ebnf2ps nil "Translate an EBNF to a syntactic chart on PostScript." :prefix "ebnf-" :version "20" :group 'text :group 'postscript) ;;; textmodes/bib-mode.el (defgroup bib nil "Major mode for editing bib files." :prefix "bib-" :group 'external :group 'text) ;;; textmodes/enriched.el (defgroup enriched nil "Read and save files in text/enriched format." :group 'text) ;;; textmodes/nroff-mode.el (defgroup nroff nil "Nroff mode." :link '(custom-group-link :tag "Font Lock Faces group" font-lock-faces) :group 'text :prefix "nroff-") ;;; textmodes/picture.el (defgroup picture nil "Editing text-based pictures (\"ASCII art\")." :prefix "picture-" :group 'text) ;;; textmodes/refbib.el (defgroup refbib nil "Convert refer-style references to ones usable by Latex bib." :prefix "r2b-" :group 'text) ;;; textmodes/refer.el (defgroup refer nil "Look up references in bibliography files." :prefix "refer-" :group 'text) ;;; textmodes/rst.el (defgroup rst nil "Support for reStructuredText documents." :group 'text :version "23.1" :link '(url-link "http://docutils.sourceforge.net/rst.html")) ;;; textmodes/table.el (defgroup table nil "Text based table manipulation utilities." :tag "Table" :prefix "table-" :group 'text :version "22.1") ;;; textmodes/text-mode.el (defcustom text-mode-hook '(text-mode-hook-identify) "Normal hook run when entering Text mode and many related modes." :type 'hook :options '(turn-on-auto-fill turn-on-flyspell) :group 'text) ;;; textmodes/tildify.el (defgroup tildify nil "Add hard spaces or other text fragments to text buffers." :version "21.1" :group 'text) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 08 09:40:55 2016 Received: (at 24549-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Oct 2016 13:40:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48384 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bsrrz-00011A-If for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Oct 2016 09:40:55 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:47882) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bsrrw-00010v-On for 24549-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Oct 2016 09:40:53 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bsrrn-0007mV-A3 for 24549-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Oct 2016 09:40:47 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:47142) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bsrrm-0007mF-UV; Sat, 08 Oct 2016 09:40:43 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2720 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1bsrrl-0004k6-4B; Sat, 08 Oct 2016 09:40:41 -0400 Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2016 16:40:49 +0300 Message-Id: <83vax3gdr2.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: <2d7216a4-60c9-40fb-95e4-91894284fbee@default> (message from Drew Adams on Tue, 27 Sep 2016 09:58:29 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#24549: 25.1; Customizing group `text' References: <<8aaf30c2-ceb2-4803-9e2e-cd10ad8a3802@default>> <<837f9xct9z.fsf@gnu.org>> <<9eab3611-2ed6-422b-93bc-4270ef1b6082@default>> <<83twd1bcx6.fsf@gnu.org>> <2d7216a4-60c9-40fb-95e4-91894284fbee@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -7.7 (-------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24549-done Cc: 24549-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -7.7 (-------) > Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2016 09:58:29 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 24549@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > IOW, we can (1) make a group `text' that behaves essentially > > > like `wp' and (2) let users know that `wp' is considered > > > deprecated. > > > > If this works, it is probably better, yes. > > IOW, something like the code below. Thanks, done on the master branch. > Question 1: Why is group `outlines' declared in both > cus-edit.el and outline.el? And in outline.el it has a > prefix declared, but not in cus-edit.el. Group `outlines' > is not _used_ in cus-edit.el, AFAICT. What would happen > if we removed group `outlines' from cus-edit.el? > (This question has nothing to do with this bug report. > Just happened to notice the duplication.) This duplication is an oversight from when outline.el was converted to use Custom. I fixed this now. > Question 2: Should group `text' inherit directly from group > `emacs'? Should it also inherit from group `wp'? I left it inherit from both. It cannot do any harm, I think. > I think the answer to both of these is yes. WDYT? > > Question 3: Should group `wp' still be inherited from, by a > group that now inherits from `text'? E.g., should group > `tildify' inherit from both `wp' as well as from `text'? > > I don't think so. If group `text' itself inherits from `wp' > then I don't think there is any reason that we need to have > other groups still inherit directly from `wp' (as well as > from `text'). WDYT? I agree. I think this bug is now done. From unknown Tue Aug 19 23:13:36 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2016 12:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator