From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 23 10:15:15 2016 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Sep 2016 14:15:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33600 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnRFz-0008Uf-CX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 10:15:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:33047) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnRFx-0008UR-Vo for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 10:15:14 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnRFr-0007qI-Rx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 10:15:08 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM, T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:36878) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnRFr-0007oU-OJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 10:15:07 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52242) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnRFp-0006oN-Fk for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 10:15:06 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnRFi-0007li-Ks for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 10:15:04 -0400 Received: from mail-pf0-f193.google.com ([209.85.192.193]:34780) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnRFi-0007lA-F3 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 10:14:58 -0400 Received: by mail-pf0-f193.google.com with SMTP id 21so5382065pfy.1 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 07:14:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:date:to:cc:subject:message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=YS1CMQiPHCKNoqaXM8srHy/3NzQJ/nQwD7qN8IaBucw=; b=wa4FRS/oSk9Jnbh3uVSpyhFUHkwfR/WxlexUTpPOz10dt7zys617e6MXei4of8MTM3 wy8KxjY/KTvuEWN2h1Qj0tIjiglxikze2lhH2P5Erehm2G3i7p4BMNn4VjvynZOBIo8c bpXXP6Z5PG1LvXaV57TrJWTsc/BOh3OLxnyr/ApHktIwrrrFlr/j+yxk0Z7AWKZayNSh C5cFBj5L3DMkBsoyAX5jbiefwhEgfPntKpxA1VnwHCAD9DMQB8/rWvHlF/3DxUuGtvvj UCdm2GyxR5PPL7sr1NqppbxE4dGnuZUDcnWoZxGFr90YUVPI1A+Y1ECRPw4Zet4CH882 1rGg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:date:to:cc:subject:message-id:user-agent :mime-version; bh=YS1CMQiPHCKNoqaXM8srHy/3NzQJ/nQwD7qN8IaBucw=; b=liGki9ZLHNx3DjBdPGqNXpEOaop4UhTKCBs/c1UeGU7khO0/bVQRKLjUyhXnKtGAf5 iq7dG1YiqbG5CTsapDDr1y+A68RrS3oelxQ3JyKBzCOdHWpfY8JDyCm3bBgJ1huH/lIH PWrIUyHl7sVFpAS9VC4z0BY5Nvz6qdoFb97Z4P6EzyQkQntIugk6FuKFSrDaU3bVKGlf sIpo/RNILXgXpx3nRXcXecyCe9Rbmq5CGKif7XTHykHKcH2gRj0SzdT79KmWzNf1xA6T 5KWQZEG1v3E/+FWv9nBourmlnfE/Gcm9cJk9ncIzBp1tnGh1A01zfD+CpAyVg8dKaIFN ScZw== X-Gm-Message-State: AE9vXwNOra+jE4Jykk3lniPIWZV3rExCmACa+eRcgNIhISl0pw2xg5JLTGbJoMHaaa4Cag== X-Received: by 10.98.152.69 with SMTP id q66mr12610959pfd.176.1474640035870; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 07:13:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from calancha-pc (57.92.100.220.dy.bbexcite.jp. [220.100.92.57]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t1sm12039191pfd.57.2016.09.23.07.13.54 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 23 Sep 2016 07:13:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Tino Calancha X-Google-Original-From: Tino Calancha Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2016 23:13:52 +0900 (JST) X-X-Sender: calancha@calancha-pc To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 25.2.50; dired-mark-extension with prefix arg fails Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: tino.calancha@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) emacs -Q ~ -eval "(require 'dired-x)" C-u * . el RET ;; signal error: Wrong type argument: char-or-string-p, (4) Because the interactive specification read MARKER-CHAR using 'P'. That would be sensical if prefix argument has the meaning of unmark files. That behaviour is found elsewhere in Dired, for instance, `dired-mark-executables', `dired-mark-directories', `dired-mark-files-regexp'. In following patch, `dired-mark-extension' with a prefix argument unmark files: ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; >From 8f24f389b19a700b6cf48c187273234ae889aae4 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Tino Calancha Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2016 23:06:28 +0900 Subject: [PATCH] dired-mark-extension: With prefix arg unmark files * lisp/dired-x.el (dired-mark-extension): When called interactively with prefix argument, then unmark files (Bug#24518). --- lisp/dired-x.el | 5 ++++- 1 file changed, 4 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/lisp/dired-x.el b/lisp/dired-x.el index 41c2256..834c0de 100644 --- a/lisp/dired-x.el +++ b/lisp/dired-x.el @@ -331,10 +331,13 @@ dired-extra-startup ;; Mark files with some extension. (defun dired-mark-extension (extension &optional marker-char) "Mark all files with a certain EXTENSION for use in later commands. +A prefix argument means to unmark them instead. A `.' is *not* automatically prepended to the string entered. EXTENSION may also be a list of extensions instead of a single one. Optional MARKER-CHAR is marker to use." - (interactive "sMarking extension: \nP") + (interactive + (list (read-string "Marking extension: ") + (and current-prefix-arg ?\s))) (or (listp extension) (setq extension (list extension))) (dired-mark-files-regexp -- 2.9.3 ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; In GNU Emacs 25.2.50.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.22.0) of 2016-09-23 Repository revision: 65dc67c87553bec4c8b36432246b13f09d653118 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 07:52:23 2016 Received: (at 24518) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2016 11:52:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33943 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnlVH-0004t1-Cg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 07:52:23 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:47201) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnlVF-0004so-Vv for 24518@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 07:52:22 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnlV7-0002XJ-NB for 24518@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 07:52:16 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:37040) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnlV7-0002Ww-Ju; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 07:52:13 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1117 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1bnlUz-0000J4-0g; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 07:52:12 -0400 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 14:52:18 +0300 Message-Id: <837fa1cy6l.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Tino Calancha In-reply-to: (message from Tino Calancha on Fri, 23 Sep 2016 23:13:52 +0900 (JST)) Subject: Re: bug#24518: 25.2.50; dired-mark-extension with prefix arg fails References: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24518 Cc: 24518@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) > From: Tino Calancha > Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2016 23:13:52 +0900 (JST) > Cc: tino.calancha@gmail.com > > > emacs -Q ~ -eval "(require 'dired-x)" > C-u * . el RET > ;; signal error: > Wrong type argument: char-or-string-p, (4) > > Because the interactive specification read MARKER-CHAR using 'P'. > That would be sensical if prefix argument has the meaning of unmark > files. That behaviour is found elsewhere in Dired, for instance, > `dired-mark-executables', `dired-mark-directories', > `dired-mark-files-regexp'. > > In following patch, `dired-mark-extension' with a prefix argument > unmark files: This loses the feature whereby the user could also specify the character to use as the marker. Try "C-u 65 * . el RET" to see what that does. While using the numeric code of a character sounds like a kludge, the current implementation seems to do that deliberately. It might make sense to use 'c' instead of 'P' there, I think, but your patch totally changes the semantics of the prefix argument, so I'm not sure I can endorse such a change. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 08:30:23 2016 Received: (at 24518) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2016 12:30:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33976 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnm63-0005tF-7I for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 08:30:23 -0400 Received: from mail-pa0-f46.google.com ([209.85.220.46]:33265) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnm61-0005t3-IE for 24518@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 08:30:21 -0400 Received: by mail-pa0-f46.google.com with SMTP id hm5so48397061pac.0 for <24518@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 05:30:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:date:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id:references :user-agent:mime-version; bh=mL7UCtyaX0S38gdsU2lxOxtgts22fPoiBCqMPueSuas=; b=IZM+zM/eaBpdSMhBOII7v/mZZOUFjUHTJ1epOhJEJQJC4R/hISV27lW9IIHgh8tzOE +k1mg5IXpWQuQfRmz4btJ7A5js2C2Vv9Sx7tF4xVnnOn+qVFz6pKgzHNIC9M9qBDu3tr s1FpB/tjEaYx0YLMYwVTWpN/yXDuit9eKNFEhYy0TFRnXHdwXW42Pp8btglOALgo6Cur XVlGuQ1/l/XOsvAjqyLEgmNYVPHSVRf0N1kPGCzBhsZVAN0B9kqvkh1Q8f4qqfpAaSk6 R/CrZxHP9nEGfPHtl9OXSTz2CyRSXvbyw57MZdmTKbSQsFM2zgvsRI/XXQCbCtkhdBd/ yV2A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:date:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id :references:user-agent:mime-version; bh=mL7UCtyaX0S38gdsU2lxOxtgts22fPoiBCqMPueSuas=; b=RJb40NMwDy0PwL0iD0OqwTw2ovTY113M13Pvnm9it54CyC/Asx2zy2+/j+fu3/9UtG Ae3fxmIFOcPpS+kt2J+aknPRl1zbyC3jxUk+lc5sn9yR/u5jhXGUQTFzgc/DFMpp0zl2 WoJudmCDEGJJi9Q11wE3tZCjnSZGZphUOWMiOH/kRIaj5/KGbSltnvBYZHYed88ms2cF kcGFFg8IkKYp9mOmpEq38M3wqgW5jitr5Mo7DJJlGvhPWcrq9e88rmCCrAb3wVMnwAJg bKbtBvJ+Qo9TutqCrvURtfqSPCW5IeEvCff3tGG1wgeaRJunnVRy5JkBQyi6hu6hm2DF gzTg== X-Gm-Message-State: AE9vXwM2ugtKpb6JdZUYTMrEcActsrHC09FIA4ukO7w0OfNby6pZ44tPsRioq/dR0Klbrg== X-Received: by 10.66.251.131 with SMTP id zk3mr21465263pac.176.1474720215826; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 05:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from calancha-pc (57.92.100.220.dy.bbexcite.jp. [220.100.92.57]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n77sm18437494pfj.31.2016.09.24.05.30.13 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 24 Sep 2016 05:30:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Tino Calancha X-Google-Original-From: Tino Calancha Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 21:30:11 +0900 (JST) X-X-Sender: calancha@calancha-pc To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24518: 25.2.50; dired-mark-extension with prefix arg fails In-Reply-To: <837fa1cy6l.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: References: <837fa1cy6l.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24518 Cc: 24518@debbugs.gnu.org, Tino Calancha X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) On Sat, 24 Sep 2016, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > This loses the feature whereby the user could also specify the > character to use as the marker. Try "C-u 65 * . el RET" to see what > that does. That feature has never being available since `dired-x' was added to Emacs in 1994: the bug came from the very first commit. No user will miss that feature because nobody ever could use it. > While using the numeric code of a character sounds like a kludge, the > current implementation seems to do that deliberately. It might make > sense to use 'c' instead of 'P' there, I think, but your patch totally > changes the semantics of the prefix argument, so I'm not sure I can > endorse such a change. Sure, we could use 'c' and fix it. We could provide such feature not working in >20 years without nobody oppening a bug report. That sounds like a not useful feature at all. People often mark and unmark, but much less people mark with other marks than ?*. If they really want that, they still can call the function non interactively, or use `dired-change-marks'. Prompting user for the mark character is annoying: 99% of the times i just want to be asked about the extension Believe me, using a prefix argument for unmark is very useful. IMO, my proposal makes a better command: *) Interactively, this command will handle its optional argument as `dired-mark-files-regexp': a prefix argument sets marker-char ?\s, i.e., unmark files. *) In non interactive calls, the meaning of marker-char is, again, as `dired-mark-files-regexp': the character to use for mark the files. For me this uniform behaviour between these two marking commands is a very nice thing. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 08:52:49 2016 Received: (at 24518) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2016 12:52:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33981 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnmRl-0006OL-6F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 08:52:49 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:57766) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnmRk-0006O8-8I for 24518@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 08:52:48 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnmRb-0004en-Vn for 24518@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 08:52:43 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:37973) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnmRb-0004eh-SW; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 08:52:39 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1670 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1bnmRa-0008PV-8A; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 08:52:39 -0400 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:53:03 +0300 Message-Id: <8337kpcvdc.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Tino Calancha In-reply-to: (message from Tino Calancha on Sat, 24 Sep 2016 21:30:11 +0900 (JST)) Subject: Re: bug#24518: 25.2.50; dired-mark-extension with prefix arg fails References: <837fa1cy6l.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24518 Cc: 24518@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) > From: Tino Calancha > Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 21:30:11 +0900 (JST) > cc: Tino Calancha , 24518@debbugs.gnu.org > > > On Sat, 24 Sep 2016, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > This loses the feature whereby the user could also specify the > > character to use as the marker. Try "C-u 65 * . el RET" to see what > > that does. > That feature has never being available since `dired-x' was added to Emacs > in 1994: the bug came from the very first commit. No user will miss > that feature because nobody ever could use it. ??? The example I gave works with the unmodified sources. When used as I've shown, there's no bug, and the command does what I expect. So how can we be sure no one ever used it that way and won't miss this optional behavior? Can you explain your logic here? > > While using the numeric code of a character sounds like a kludge, the > > current implementation seems to do that deliberately. It might make > > sense to use 'c' instead of 'P' there, I think, but your patch totally > > changes the semantics of the prefix argument, so I'm not sure I can > > endorse such a change. > Sure, we could use 'c' and fix it. We could provide such feature not working > in >20 years without nobody oppening a bug report. That sounds like a > not useful feature at all. It's an existing feature. I won't agree to removing features that existed for the last 22 years without a very good reason. We have no good means of finding out whether anyone out there uses this; if someone does, removing this feature will most probably be a source of aggravation for them. > Believe me, using a prefix argument for unmark is very useful. I believe you. But we will have to provide this feature without breaking other existing features. > For me this uniform behaviour between these two marking commands is > a very nice thing. I don't disagree. I just don't want to break existing features. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 09:02:11 2016 Received: (at 24518) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2016 13:02:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33989 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnmap-0006dK-B5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 09:02:11 -0400 Received: from mail-pf0-f169.google.com ([209.85.192.169]:34960) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnman-0006d7-VJ for 24518@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 09:02:10 -0400 Received: by mail-pf0-f169.google.com with SMTP id s13so16333014pfd.2 for <24518@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 06:02:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:date:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id:references :user-agent:mime-version; bh=rDxJkh8sM9T9DmsM3l2oZouC8kadwkirEveDY9QQ4B8=; b=HmZt+a5aUnJeyioM8r4xrXOi3ECITgf1LwGuTye5Hb8qsn7UNahfmnWQa/1+9S+aQi 7BBGY3tRMOMZ4WhTP7TTO5FFdq1X1XgWADoX/8Su84m8jVAi2ISvZdPtmmEIdE45P4qg SL7I2TxkrAq8E7IY7+SUVE9CE7EmgPk6nW1flvG3DKN2Dv59+2X75j05+KmQj1ebwiCV jimln7Hl0Ox/hazoH4OMKaDGQn/4lC+sv8toy7sLqRIRcigyjs/45AAA4OHd8t9iC/3D IfhyuJ4WI/1iZLz/180U17+m/ZBZTQGX6ADPa3ADV1xsJBrNmiTuaVqSor+q/px346Co oDKg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:date:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id :references:user-agent:mime-version; bh=rDxJkh8sM9T9DmsM3l2oZouC8kadwkirEveDY9QQ4B8=; b=DjGOIOwZLG0xEXM3oovufk3w0m1C94gulEUGp9Zha5Y8YmIHXc1imisy2xqpZPTcme mmTIR40h8l6AvcBIOj38ZS0hwOehToEEP9a87lKn4YQNTaq2cgYHZwXmr8g3jJaKLixr FD7lL3iWZ+HB3LUu05oSYAZZIbZ/vMdrx4fTgBi2iH1HpIvAsJ8Ih79ElPkAJvR7c68q 9+NDrJ07b5z9RKhJs7xN4R3cPyLLjd/CrU/unndHwzRORjYYJqOVA5OZZ2Eh96fs/J3W 2zTcLTes3/swZa0wXtivSrr/vIfUadQ+9jiYUQnzo4mo+12xSWHuoMid9PH/hWhnmsb7 kpqw== X-Gm-Message-State: AE9vXwN8WXASt3M2/gonY0q00iPJtcxd8gucN/N4X2DiQIwihZG58of1TEHA29mwf96Ppw== X-Received: by 10.98.184.26 with SMTP id p26mr21933991pfe.71.1474722124304; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 06:02:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from calancha-pc (57.92.100.220.dy.bbexcite.jp. [220.100.92.57]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p1sm18687422pae.12.2016.09.24.06.02.02 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 24 Sep 2016 06:02:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Tino Calancha X-Google-Original-From: Tino Calancha Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 22:02:01 +0900 (JST) X-X-Sender: calancha@calancha-pc To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24518: 25.2.50; dired-mark-extension with prefix arg fails In-Reply-To: <8337kpcvdc.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: References: <837fa1cy6l.fsf@gnu.org> <8337kpcvdc.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24518 Cc: 24518@debbugs.gnu.org, Tino Calancha X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On Sat, 24 Sep 2016, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Tino Calancha >> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 21:30:11 +0900 (JST) >> cc: Tino Calancha , 24518@debbugs.gnu.org >> >> >> On Sat, 24 Sep 2016, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> >>> This loses the feature whereby the user could also specify the >>> character to use as the marker. Try "C-u 65 * . el RET" to see what >>> that does. >> That feature has never being available since `dired-x' was added to Emacs >> in 1994: the bug came from the very first commit. No user will miss >> that feature because nobody ever could use it. > > ??? The example I gave works with the unmodified sources. When used > as I've shown, there's no bug, and the command does what I expect. So > how can we be sure no one ever used it that way and won't miss this > optional behavior? > > Can you explain your logic here? Maybe you are a genious. Normal people when we are prompt for a character we expect we can input the textual representation of the character, for example: i will answer K instead of 75 You should admit that your example is tricky. Compare how the user is prompted with: M-x dired-change-marks RET ;; This command expects 'textual' representation of the character. I don't think my patch breaks any feature, because i consider prompting fo a char in hexadecimal not a feature. Maybe for robots, but certainly not for human. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 09:15:08 2016 Received: (at 24518) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2016 13:15:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34015 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnmnM-00074H-88 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 09:15:08 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.10]:46160) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnmnJ-0006zh-7V for 24518@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 09:15:06 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3sh9gr0JQlz3hjdb; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:15:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.68]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3sh9gq1NG5zvlVQ; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:15:03 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.68]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rIk6qWmE1aGJ; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:15:02 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Info: Oqf1LVITT4dIwS0y3BufQ5Kr15xOx5ZNaUENii4ZEy+RlgyxgglZ1jYjduDJjGCS Received: from igel.home (ppp-88-217-22-91.dynamic.mnet-online.de [88.217.22.91]) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:15:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: by igel.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id EE6662C3065; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:15:01 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24518: 25.2.50; dired-mark-extension with prefix arg fails References: <837fa1cy6l.fsf@gnu.org> <8337kpcvdc.fsf@gnu.org> X-Yow: I don't know WHY I said that.. I think it came from the FILLINGS in my rear molars.. Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:15:01 +0200 In-Reply-To: <8337kpcvdc.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:53:03 +0300") Message-ID: <874m554ey2.fsf@linux-m68k.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24518 Cc: 24518@debbugs.gnu.org, Tino Calancha X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On Sep 24 2016, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> > This loses the feature whereby the user could also specify the >> > character to use as the marker. Try "C-u 65 * . el RET" to see what >> > that does. >> That feature has never being available since `dired-x' was added to Emacs >> in 1994: the bug came from the very first commit. No user will miss >> that feature because nobody ever could use it. > > ??? The example I gave works with the unmodified sources. When used > as I've shown, there's no bug, and the command does what I expect. So > how can we be sure no one ever used it that way and won't miss this > optional behavior? Does it actually make sense to have to specify the character by its code? That doesn't look like this was an intented feature (being undocumented). Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756 01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 09:49:37 2016 Received: (at 24518) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2016 13:49:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34022 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnnKj-0000xi-3J for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 09:49:37 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:37908) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnnKh-0000xW-KA for 24518@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 09:49:35 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnnKX-0000eC-FQ for 24518@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 09:49:30 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:38502) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnnKX-0000e4-C8; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 09:49:25 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1811 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1bnnKW-0007Su-5S; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 09:49:25 -0400 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 16:49:46 +0300 Message-Id: <83zimxbe6d.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Tino Calancha In-reply-to: (message from Tino Calancha on Sat, 24 Sep 2016 22:02:01 +0900 (JST)) Subject: Re: bug#24518: 25.2.50; dired-mark-extension with prefix arg fails References: <837fa1cy6l.fsf@gnu.org> <8337kpcvdc.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24518 Cc: 24518@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) > From: Tino Calancha > Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 22:02:01 +0900 (JST) > cc: Tino Calancha , 24518@debbugs.gnu.org > > >> That feature has never being available since `dired-x' was added to Emacs > >> in 1994: the bug came from the very first commit. No user will miss > >> that feature because nobody ever could use it. > > > > ??? The example I gave works with the unmodified sources. When used > > as I've shown, there's no bug, and the command does what I expect. So > > how can we be sure no one ever used it that way and won't miss this > > optional behavior? > > > > Can you explain your logic here? > Maybe you are a genious. I'm not a genius. I just read the sources. > Normal people when we are prompt for a > character we expect we can input the textual representation of the > character, for example: i will answer > K > instead of > 75 There's no prompt, you must specify the marker via the prefix argument. With 'P', you must type the numeric codepoint of the character; if we change it to 'c', users will be able to say "C-u x" instead (where 'x' is the marker character they want). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 09:51:28 2016 Received: (at 24518) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2016 13:51:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34026 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnnMV-00010h-G1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 09:51:28 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:38264) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnnMU-00010V-FA for 24518@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 09:51:26 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnnMK-0001Ai-Sm for 24518@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 09:51:21 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:38515) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnnMK-0001AE-Pn; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 09:51:16 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1813 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1bnnMH-0007eD-EZ; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 09:51:15 -0400 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 16:51:31 +0300 Message-Id: <83y42hbe3g.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Andreas Schwab In-reply-to: <874m554ey2.fsf@linux-m68k.org> (message from Andreas Schwab on Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:15:01 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#24518: 25.2.50; dired-mark-extension with prefix arg fails References: <837fa1cy6l.fsf@gnu.org> <8337kpcvdc.fsf@gnu.org> <874m554ey2.fsf@linux-m68k.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24518 Cc: 24518@debbugs.gnu.org, tino.calancha@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) > From: Andreas Schwab > Cc: Tino Calancha , 24518@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:15:01 +0200 > > Does it actually make sense to have to specify the character by its > code? Like I said: it looks a kludge, but it definitely isn't an accident. I suggested to replace 'P' with 'c' in the interactive spec, to make it less kludgey. > That doesn't look like this was an intented feature (being > undocumented). It's documented, see the doc string. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 10:06:55 2016 Received: (at 24518) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2016 14:06:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34580 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnnbT-0001W8-Et for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 10:06:55 -0400 Received: from mail-pa0-f45.google.com ([209.85.220.45]:32785) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnnbS-0001Vv-LJ for 24518@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 10:06:54 -0400 Received: by mail-pa0-f45.google.com with SMTP id hm5so48813385pac.0 for <24518@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 07:06:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:date:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id:references :user-agent:mime-version; bh=lh5lHkEsR30skn57Gktz+rcAjuho2UDOJpNANxsedec=; b=Q30VtdkfRwP/XVCwssUKPRPCQ55Yj/1nyjrnBh7UcG5Fh9a75CyaHiVfYcC7ZhH9qk f6g3nW9BBlei2XCACtea24ZRNxFAIfH3YHYOVVceSi4f6nos/XmuqafWoa2la7I/tbbY X2pKbcWNU/ky4oX2CHcGKirjaM/RXKPQMgMiI0s8gVtXCO8bogrLAy9/r63rxAVq9PQ7 9xDVZZ5K3ZVMXwtiBzqWFMvN7KWEqsGHtyw3ybbQI5S/7Vo/sljS53Q8AXV02yYu2S6S h6ddMhGE39s4oyY9WgVMSdKxEr7ITa2US+rXc1Do7UgSDyorXSt3WvUp9F8CY6VyelIX /Xzg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:date:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id :references:user-agent:mime-version; bh=lh5lHkEsR30skn57Gktz+rcAjuho2UDOJpNANxsedec=; b=aCVQAjhs5d/Aoc1t8RSUK84rBQzHT22y7/lAH8TOgdLanaWSmxO0enafNloVFqbpCs c/wjZCaqwnhepv5bp5kOsgm3YdHrnjr8nJJW2LSucksfjvMCZwIdFt9wFky9pq+ym5YT FAODQtTnFxiHtRVj86bgADv1glPEdm0kvNGH/pZAXoyQ9dOlDPUbNqBiMmncp8RS3dxp hDRyWcqaSeA2uafx292Chx6pJOlatdtqlbBWOCYNyGMOlNS/4Lw884GuleVCLaCsz1+a A7kWVPriTHvNfpjLP9bnIY5jcP3INPHh4KwuBOFo2E8PpmgyAWVyxU2sHqgJ4am0Oq0S THHw== X-Gm-Message-State: AE9vXwPxuDYg8iVr+D+VWU91Wia5sjRAOQNVzM3Nbu+t2c790bM4Bha0Mm61SNENwuqtIA== X-Received: by 10.66.148.68 with SMTP id tq4mr21894401pab.160.1474726008991; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 07:06:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from calancha-pc (57.92.100.220.dy.bbexcite.jp. [220.100.92.57]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y5sm19025823pfb.13.2016.09.24.07.06.47 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 24 Sep 2016 07:06:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Tino Calancha X-Google-Original-From: Tino Calancha Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 23:06:46 +0900 (JST) X-X-Sender: calancha@calancha-pc To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24518: 25.2.50; dired-mark-extension with prefix arg fails In-Reply-To: <83y42hbe3g.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: References: <837fa1cy6l.fsf@gnu.org> <8337kpcvdc.fsf@gnu.org> <874m554ey2.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83y42hbe3g.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24518 Cc: 24518@debbugs.gnu.org, Andreas Schwab , tino.calancha@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) On Sat, 24 Sep 2016, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Like I said: it looks a kludge, but it definitely isn't an accident. > I suggested to replace 'P' with 'c' in the interactive spec, to make > it less kludgey. I know i am an small ant here, but I must say that IMO, that solution is bad Emacs: i strongly disagree with it. I hardly believe that original Sebastian Kremer intention was to provide such behaviour. I am sure he wanted the command behaves as `dired-mark-files-regexp' does with respect the optional arg. Feel free to fix the bug as you wish and push it to the repository. I don't want to do it myself, because i don't want my name appear in the git log as the author of that solution. I am sorry if these words sounds bad. It's not my intention; it's good having different opinions. >> That doesn't look like this was an intented feature (being >> undocumented). > > It's documented, see the doc string. Andreas meant in his previous e-mail that if the feature requires that the user input an hexadecimal, then that should appear in the doc string. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 11:11:58 2016 Received: (at 24518-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2016 15:11:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34593 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnocQ-00033Q-2b for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 11:11:58 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:49551) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnocO-00033A-0q for 24518-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 11:11:56 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnocF-0000sU-LL for 24518-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 11:11:50 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:39341) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnocF-0000sG-Hm; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 11:11:47 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1952 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1bnocC-000141-MB; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 11:11:47 -0400 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 18:11:58 +0300 Message-Id: <83wpi1badd.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Tino Calancha In-reply-to: (message from Tino Calancha on Sat, 24 Sep 2016 23:06:46 +0900 (JST)) Subject: Re: bug#24518: 25.2.50; dired-mark-extension with prefix arg fails References: <837fa1cy6l.fsf@gnu.org> <8337kpcvdc.fsf@gnu.org> <874m554ey2.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83y42hbe3g.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24518-done Cc: 24518-done@debbugs.gnu.org, schwab@linux-m68k.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) > From: Tino Calancha > Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 23:06:46 +0900 (JST) > cc: Andreas Schwab , tino.calancha@gmail.com, > 24518@debbugs.gnu.org > > Feel free to fix the bug as you wish and push it to the repository. > I don't want to do it myself, because i don't want my name appear in > the git log as the author of that solution. Done. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 12:48:40 2016 Received: (at 24518) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2016 16:48:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34674 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnq80-0005LK-14 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 12:48:40 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.9]:37998) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnq7y-0005LC-3O for 24518@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 12:48:38 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3shGQF0SgHz3hjSw; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 18:48:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.68]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3shGQD6MYFzvkb8; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 18:48:36 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.68]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2Ex115roPhX7; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 18:48:35 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Info: vYGQ9kXpvkQh6WRO52aZAsKukIfXiBTQKccjXeAonR4Z4KQlAjonK0yXgR/IRGZT Received: from igel.home (ppp-88-217-22-91.dynamic.mnet-online.de [88.217.22.91]) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 18:48:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: by igel.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 45C852C263B; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 18:48:35 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24518: 25.2.50; dired-mark-extension with prefix arg fails References: <837fa1cy6l.fsf@gnu.org> <8337kpcvdc.fsf@gnu.org> <874m554ey2.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83y42hbe3g.fsf@gnu.org> X-Yow: A shapely CATHOLIC SCHOOLGIRL is FIDGETING inside my costume.. Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 18:48:35 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83y42hbe3g.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 24 Sep 2016 16:51:31 +0300") Message-ID: <87oa3d2qho.fsf@linux-m68k.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24518 Cc: 24518@debbugs.gnu.org, tino.calancha@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On Sep 24 2016, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Andreas Schwab >> Cc: Tino Calancha , 24518@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:15:01 +0200 >> >> Does it actually make sense to have to specify the character by its >> code? > > Like I said: it looks a kludge, but it definitely isn't an accident. What makes you that confident? It look certainly like a misunderstanding. > I suggested to replace 'P' with 'c' in the interactive spec, to make > it less kludgey. "c" would make it non-optional, definitely not intented. >> That doesn't look like this was an intented feature (being >> undocumented). > > It's documented, see the doc string. It isn't. There is no occurence of "prefix" in the doc string. Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756 01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 12:58:03 2016 Received: (at 24518) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2016 16:58:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34678 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnqH4-0005Yb-VK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 12:58:03 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:37898) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnqH2-0005Y7-Pv for 24518@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 12:58:01 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnqGu-00045H-DP for 24518@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 12:57:55 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:40679) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnqGu-00045D-9o; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 12:57:52 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2036 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1bnqGr-0006sP-1R; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 12:57:51 -0400 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 19:58:09 +0300 Message-Id: <83vaxlb5ge.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Andreas Schwab In-reply-to: <87oa3d2qho.fsf@linux-m68k.org> (message from Andreas Schwab on Sat, 24 Sep 2016 18:48:35 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#24518: 25.2.50; dired-mark-extension with prefix arg fails References: <837fa1cy6l.fsf@gnu.org> <8337kpcvdc.fsf@gnu.org> <874m554ey2.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83y42hbe3g.fsf@gnu.org> <87oa3d2qho.fsf@linux-m68k.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24518 Cc: 24518@debbugs.gnu.org, tino.calancha@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) > From: Andreas Schwab > Cc: tino.calancha@gmail.com, 24518@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 18:48:35 +0200 > > > Like I said: it looks a kludge, but it definitely isn't an accident. > > What makes you that confident? It look certainly like a > misunderstanding. > > > I suggested to replace 'P' with 'c' in the interactive spec, to make > > it less kludgey. > > "c" would make it non-optional, definitely not intented. > > >> That doesn't look like this was an intented feature (being > >> undocumented). > > > > It's documented, see the doc string. > > It isn't. There is no occurence of "prefix" in the doc string. I believe my recent commit fixed all of the above. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 13:14:26 2016 Received: (at 24518) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2016 17:14:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34696 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnqWw-0005xn-Ci for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 13:14:26 -0400 Received: from mail-pf0-f180.google.com ([209.85.192.180]:36641) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnqWu-0005xa-Gz for 24518@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 13:14:24 -0400 Received: by mail-pf0-f180.google.com with SMTP id q2so51720183pfj.3 for <24518@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 10:14:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:date:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id:references :user-agent:mime-version; bh=LuIU7FE1K1TTOWTeMIVToFScCzD73x9HsiAf55wj5kw=; b=oVQD0I1RsDDSr76UVOmWaT5UweSkDrkpIdLlU505tnAVyKc/16wqNiaU/KX9hCRmdK y3BvREaQMaHefPYFPjk0HuBT6YLaKlzUBuCb0g/veKmkOmpm1tVah0OWfinda0LZhYgo aSqADGTB6tJat+pQeSmoV8BsuzTO99IaBal6PWz7akywCSP4fSwxoel+Jabcu5cxfHa5 ErNnjQQIU2i7w9YyKEuVhnxf76RljY887OSJQBkznHYNkN+THdKtCRTH5Bn4/rfAGfby nssHQotDWUE3V26hM1Dg/AcbbgtVpoZkY6KL6XW3AHyPGIMhW0q0E53aDIQzSv5Br3EL POAA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:date:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id :references:user-agent:mime-version; bh=LuIU7FE1K1TTOWTeMIVToFScCzD73x9HsiAf55wj5kw=; b=dutbnsBuEdgrnBxGjbTerRG7FYgrlSek6nMRoJpv1vmmEW+f+PnkAzVp0/J4MRUIFP bIUkAFo3lAbfSZsQ77xIG3ZGlvDHxxGFd4BjUgWzg8/QqyJiBeJsSK5+AbkK2Ts14BKU 7skZ0zRdnvPlEXQ7o1hQ49QXr8kuD2+e9PtAlurodMbzfcXsVaT/T4MaE/htBUdP243X T/g+TlFYbpK9D0DFJaBWgw3lBw6oYRToijJlWnqc+/U//wrmOu8OXt+jBidkll5sk58F bGPwTlIMIUhyFEfjQh+0Sl7BqMXSjeyd8yHmnjhhJIimRTEoC89Hw8RiEdjdt5pg4Njb 9LMQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AE9vXwO5LZMtzO+957ik8k6RxSMiVSt522jVQ1RkBC2qIAQ9MAMBugm0EI2VH++nZqv4Gw== X-Received: by 10.98.62.194 with SMTP id y63mr22941528pfj.99.1474737258748; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 10:14:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from calancha-pc (57.92.100.220.dy.bbexcite.jp. [220.100.92.57]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w9sm19816837pfg.34.2016.09.24.10.14.16 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 24 Sep 2016 10:14:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Tino Calancha X-Google-Original-From: Tino Calancha Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2016 02:14:14 +0900 (JST) X-X-Sender: calancha@calancha-pc To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24518: 25.2.50; dired-mark-extension with prefix arg fails In-Reply-To: <83vaxlb5ge.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: References: <837fa1cy6l.fsf@gnu.org> <8337kpcvdc.fsf@gnu.org> <874m554ey2.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83y42hbe3g.fsf@gnu.org> <87oa3d2qho.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83vaxlb5ge.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24518 Cc: 24518@debbugs.gnu.org, Andreas Schwab , tino.calancha@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) On Sat, 24 Sep 2016, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Andreas Schwab >> Cc: tino.calancha@gmail.com, 24518@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 18:48:35 +0200 >> >>> Like I said: it looks a kludge, but it definitely isn't an accident. >> >> What makes you that confident? It look certainly like a >> misunderstanding. >> >>> I suggested to replace 'P' with 'c' in the interactive spec, to make >>> it less kludgey. >> >> "c" would make it non-optional, definitely not intented. >> >>>> That doesn't look like this was an intented feature (being >>>> undocumented). >>> >>> It's documented, see the doc string. >> >> It isn't. There is no occurence of "prefix" in the doc string. > > I believe my recent commit fixed all of the above Yeah, you fixed something, and we are exactly in the same point that before fixing such thing. We didn't get something better. The point here is that a Dired user would expect/wish that the interactive call behaves differently. I do. Do you know how i noticed the bug? Because i assumed that a prefix argument will unmark as other Dired marks, and i got an error (!). The right thing here is to unmark with a prefix argument: other thing than that would be unconsistent. Not Dired style, and pretty useless. For me its not a problem, because i use Dired+. Other people are not as lucky. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 13:39:48 2016 Received: (at 24518) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2016 17:39:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34711 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnqvU-0006ZS-8C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 13:39:48 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45066) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnqvT-0006ZG-0w for 24518@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 13:39:47 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnqvJ-0008Gq-C2 for 24518@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 13:39:41 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:41172) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnqvJ-0008Gb-94; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 13:39:37 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2066 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1bnqvG-0008Ro-Ek; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 13:39:35 -0400 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 20:39:43 +0300 Message-Id: <83r389b3j4.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Tino Calancha In-reply-to: (message from Tino Calancha on Sun, 25 Sep 2016 02:14:14 +0900 (JST)) Subject: Re: bug#24518: 25.2.50; dired-mark-extension with prefix arg fails References: <837fa1cy6l.fsf@gnu.org> <8337kpcvdc.fsf@gnu.org> <874m554ey2.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83y42hbe3g.fsf@gnu.org> <87oa3d2qho.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83vaxlb5ge.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24518 Cc: schwab@linux-m68k.org, 24518@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) > From: Tino Calancha > Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2016 02:14:14 +0900 (JST) > cc: Andreas Schwab , tino.calancha@gmail.com, > 24518@debbugs.gnu.org > > > I believe my recent commit fixed all of the above > Yeah, you fixed something, and we are exactly in the same point > that before fixing such thing. We didn't get something better. We don't have this command signal an error anymore, do we? I think that's a definite improvement. Besides, you yourself told me to fix the bug, so I did. > The point here is that a Dired user would expect/wish that the > interactive call behaves differently. I do. > Do you know how i noticed the bug? > Because i assumed that a prefix argument will unmark as other > Dired marks, and i got an error (!). But it isn't true that every Dired command that marks files will unmark them if invoked with an argument. E.g., dired-mark doesn't. So this doesn't look like a universal convention in Dired, only a frequent feature. OTOH, since Dired allows the user to use different marker characters in other places, IMO it is not very reasonable to exempt this particular command. Especially since it did have a (semi-broken) way of doing that. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 13:49:34 2016 Received: (at 24518) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2016 17:49:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34724 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnr4w-0006oj-9P for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 13:49:34 -0400 Received: from mail-pf0-f177.google.com ([209.85.192.177]:34083) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnr4u-0006oV-KJ for 24518@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 13:49:33 -0400 Received: by mail-pf0-f177.google.com with SMTP id l25so3803210pfb.1 for <24518@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 10:49:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:date:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id:references :user-agent:mime-version; bh=iAn3M4p3i7Cx31jtow8MdQg3tMVkJsToBeOvjYfrTfY=; b=FlNEgwxgHBLm+HSRjspAKkCcoI8+CKaq9jHBnj6PcGcgV3INQjr5rRvEb4xfN1uiX8 F0o1nPwZKbtIpgWdlaVafyIqzHtVy98v5l4o20TfsPuHR8j8KDC4EsbbQc57D9W3OEla 3UH7/MniddKfkfrPCAUMQcvU5qZfeP0fH4/TkVg1hsD7ThmGZIFokqdS7YAbTMsWTI1+ DKa3iRORj7IUNZUq4+x9dxNWARKhmOCf8C5/zzcVX6oT1/RfPE36SwVB72uO5UDgucAO 0qiDUWCeiRYOzbW5SrOrpwUZHdSH7oP0KsJoghZGADzy9P/eNYje5iC3pUrh4Gythn0n hJrg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:date:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id :references:user-agent:mime-version; bh=iAn3M4p3i7Cx31jtow8MdQg3tMVkJsToBeOvjYfrTfY=; b=Aef+EdTArOPxXjVawDaqMlQgHEdkyo+ui4d2pDam2nzM61VOLulvwi1+a1wZF6WAxm TwT0moYBQ3FJ6tbaaqgScjJ5a7FEwp+dvQA0H0k6ODterNvm2EG+utH2Yis5cPzjRBMI oQ3x8yVFh0j2Dj6vGr5H6+OWgdCWKfKfHJjN5+4k4aSdkWLqxjBsB+tC4rLpj0ERTCEP JL1bE4E4p4kcwIyG5vt/hio4E+GA8anlgk+56EKWwLw07uGnVrz18A1+bjW2PApRIZbQ 1UOjAn5QnPgmKkDXySFysQz1SqCcbHDb3/BltoIyMSwC8OHkpcXpFxOl1OeTbmyWh7vh HYmg== X-Gm-Message-State: AE9vXwMzceqUiM6yieuaoyYCfSFlQ/qaabweKErBZ2h6DqvME7Bc0DozdHgE7TnK8I2PAg== X-Received: by 10.98.207.130 with SMTP id b124mr23135421pfg.113.1474739366804; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 10:49:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from calancha-pc (57.92.100.220.dy.bbexcite.jp. [220.100.92.57]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m82sm19891435pfk.64.2016.09.24.10.49.25 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 24 Sep 2016 10:49:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Tino Calancha X-Google-Original-From: Tino Calancha Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2016 02:49:23 +0900 (JST) X-X-Sender: calancha@calancha-pc To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24518: 25.2.50; dired-mark-extension with prefix arg fails In-Reply-To: <83r389b3j4.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: References: <837fa1cy6l.fsf@gnu.org> <8337kpcvdc.fsf@gnu.org> <874m554ey2.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83y42hbe3g.fsf@gnu.org> <87oa3d2qho.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83vaxlb5ge.fsf@gnu.org> <83r389b3j4.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24518 Cc: 24518@debbugs.gnu.org, schwab@linux-m68k.org, Tino Calancha X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On Sat, 24 Sep 2016, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Tino Calancha >> Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2016 02:14:14 +0900 (JST) >> cc: Andreas Schwab , tino.calancha@gmail.com, >> 24518@debbugs.gnu.org >> >>> I believe my recent commit fixed all of the above >> Yeah, you fixed something, and we are exactly in the same point >> that before fixing such thing. We didn't get something better. > > We don't have this command signal an error anymore, do we? I think > that's a definite improvement. Yes, it is. But i doubt that in 22 years someone tried intentionally such behaviour: I guess you was the first in History when you proposed your example. Congratulations. > Besides, you yourself told me to fix the bug, so I did. Thank you very much. >> The point here is that a Dired user would expect/wish that the >> interactive call behaves differently. I do. >> Do you know how i noticed the bug? >> Because i assumed that a prefix argument will unmark as other >> Dired marks, and i got an error (!). > > But it isn't true that every Dired command that marks files will > unmark them if invoked with an argument. E.g., dired-mark doesn't. > So this doesn't look like a universal convention in Dired, only a > frequent feature. The reason why dired-mark do not follow that idiom is because we have a dedicated command dired-unmark. Indeed, you can see that it is very universal convention that if we don't have the dedicated-unmark-command for the task in hands, then the marking command _unmark_ with a prefix argument. > OTOH, since Dired allows the user to use different marker characters > in other places, IMO it is not very reasonable to exempt this > particular command. Especially since it did have a (semi-broken) way > of doing that. There better ways to mark with a different character in Dired than that. We should respect the 'prefix arg unmark' idiom. Regards From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 15:13:06 2016 Received: (at 24518) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2016 19:13:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34799 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnsNm-0000N5-7H for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:13:06 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.9]:43895) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnsNj-0000Mu-P0 for 24518@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:13:04 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3shKct4Dgdz3hj6C; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 21:13:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.68]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3shKct3bZlzvlVH; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 21:13:02 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.68]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C6Bf3dfFVy7c; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 21:13:01 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Info: NUH6qbqdXjzarS0ixB0E1TyIJrIiKwRSzrLZyhyNd4MjvGOkcm5vT24zTKEtBa5+ Received: from igel.home (ppp-88-217-22-91.dynamic.mnet-online.de [88.217.22.91]) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 21:13:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: by igel.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4ADAC2C30ED; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 21:13:01 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24518: 25.2.50; dired-mark-extension with prefix arg fails References: <837fa1cy6l.fsf@gnu.org> <8337kpcvdc.fsf@gnu.org> <874m554ey2.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83y42hbe3g.fsf@gnu.org> <87oa3d2qho.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83vaxlb5ge.fsf@gnu.org> X-Yow: ...I think I'm having an overnight sensation right now!! Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 21:13:01 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83vaxlb5ge.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 24 Sep 2016 19:58:09 +0300") Message-ID: <87fuop2jsy.fsf@linux-m68k.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24518 Cc: 24518@debbugs.gnu.org, tino.calancha@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On Sep 24 2016, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Andreas Schwab >> Cc: tino.calancha@gmail.com, 24518@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 18:48:35 +0200 >> >> > Like I said: it looks a kludge, but it definitely isn't an accident. >> >> What makes you that confident? It look certainly like a >> misunderstanding. >> >> > I suggested to replace 'P' with 'c' in the interactive spec, to make >> > it less kludgey. >> >> "c" would make it non-optional, definitely not intented. >> >> >> That doesn't look like this was an intented feature (being >> >> undocumented). >> > >> > It's documented, see the doc string. >> >> It isn't. There is no occurence of "prefix" in the doc string. > > I believe my recent commit fixed all of the above. No, it doesn't make sense to ask for the marker. Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756 01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 15:24:03 2016 Received: (at 24518) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2016 19:24:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34807 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnsYN-0000dZ-Fk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:24:03 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.10]:34336) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnsYL-0000dF-Sa for 24518@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:24:02 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3shKsX1L7Fz3hkQ0; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 21:24:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.68]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3shKsW73W1zvkc5; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 21:23:59 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.68]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MDUpPa0NqgbU; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 21:23:58 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Info: XAWw8TIt1GcxhYlWcr9Geh5X+C4yvWoXSMlpQir/oBfW3kyVEnaWkYacMU/ES1O7 Received: from igel.home (ppp-88-217-22-91.dynamic.mnet-online.de [88.217.22.91]) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 21:23:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: by igel.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id AADA42C30ED; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 21:23:58 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24518: 25.2.50; dired-mark-extension with prefix arg fails References: <837fa1cy6l.fsf@gnu.org> <8337kpcvdc.fsf@gnu.org> <874m554ey2.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83y42hbe3g.fsf@gnu.org> <87oa3d2qho.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83vaxlb5ge.fsf@gnu.org> <83r389b3j4.fsf@gnu.org> X-Yow: Is it 1974? What's for SUPPER? Can I spend my COLLEGE FUND in one wild afternoon?? Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 21:23:58 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83r389b3j4.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 24 Sep 2016 20:39:43 +0300") Message-ID: <87bmzd2jap.fsf@linux-m68k.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24518 Cc: 24518@debbugs.gnu.org, Tino Calancha X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On Sep 24 2016, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > OTOH, since Dired allows the user to use different marker characters > in other places, None of the dired commands do that. Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756 01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 15:29:09 2016 Received: (at 24518) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2016 19:29:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34811 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnsdJ-0000kp-4N for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:29:09 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:38395) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnsdH-0000kN-Fg for 24518@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:29:07 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnsdB-00076F-7M for 24518@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:29:02 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:42355) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnsdB-00075c-4U; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:29:01 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2177 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1bnsd7-0004oE-8c; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:28:59 -0400 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 22:29:13 +0300 Message-Id: <83intlaygm.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Andreas Schwab In-reply-to: <87fuop2jsy.fsf@linux-m68k.org> (message from Andreas Schwab on Sat, 24 Sep 2016 21:13:01 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#24518: 25.2.50; dired-mark-extension with prefix arg fails References: <837fa1cy6l.fsf@gnu.org> <8337kpcvdc.fsf@gnu.org> <874m554ey2.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83y42hbe3g.fsf@gnu.org> <87oa3d2qho.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83vaxlb5ge.fsf@gnu.org> <87fuop2jsy.fsf@linux-m68k.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24518 Cc: 24518@debbugs.gnu.org, tino.calancha@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) > From: Andreas Schwab > Cc: tino.calancha@gmail.com, 24518@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 21:13:01 +0200 > > > I believe my recent commit fixed all of the above. > > No, it doesn't make sense to ask for the marker. That's not a problem that needed fixing. It's an optional feature, so users who see no sense in it could simply not invoke the command with an argument. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 15:41:47 2016 Received: (at 24518) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2016 19:41:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34818 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnspX-00017C-95 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:41:47 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.10]:52654) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnspV-000174-4P for 24518@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:41:45 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3shLG03W1Jz3hkLw; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 21:41:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.68]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3shLG028qyzvkcR; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 21:41:44 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.68]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mJ8zIA9ZSpUR; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 21:41:43 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Info: aGzwiRfsxpkP2njMsVtBh95/avYACN9yekxAnyrAkObFxv+q/GkHLg9q3Mh2D1Is Received: from igel.home (ppp-88-217-22-91.dynamic.mnet-online.de [88.217.22.91]) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 21:41:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: by igel.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 26DA22C33A7; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 21:41:43 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24518: 25.2.50; dired-mark-extension with prefix arg fails References: <837fa1cy6l.fsf@gnu.org> <8337kpcvdc.fsf@gnu.org> <874m554ey2.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83y42hbe3g.fsf@gnu.org> <87oa3d2qho.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83vaxlb5ge.fsf@gnu.org> <87fuop2jsy.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83intlaygm.fsf@gnu.org> X-Yow: Yow! Am I having fun yet? Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 21:41:43 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83intlaygm.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 24 Sep 2016 22:29:13 +0300") Message-ID: <8737kp2ih4.fsf@linux-m68k.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24518 Cc: 24518@debbugs.gnu.org, tino.calancha@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On Sep 24 2016, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Andreas Schwab >> Cc: tino.calancha@gmail.com, 24518@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 21:13:01 +0200 >> >> > I believe my recent commit fixed all of the above. >> >> No, it doesn't make sense to ask for the marker. > > That's not a problem that needed fixing. Yes, it is. It's a misfeature. It makes it alien with all the other dired commands. Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756 01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 25 14:34:23 2016 Received: (at 24518) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Sep 2016 18:34:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35770 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1boEFr-0008No-0R for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2016 14:34:23 -0400 Received: from mail-oi0-f54.google.com ([209.85.218.54]:34502) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1boEFp-0008Nc-Lb for 24518@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2016 14:34:21 -0400 Received: by mail-oi0-f54.google.com with SMTP id a62so185862572oib.1 for <24518@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 25 Sep 2016 11:34:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references :user-agent:mime-version; bh=PKgKtKP9UnDuvR3bO69Uh8nZW0tRY16ecKtrWQGinzU=; b=uroHQVwwd3Lpj3Jy5Dhdvdr2X6QL4MH7U/t84WzNtUWNjxiEUVha87qyTC2wQ5fJ9I HOuZ7F9vaXrcgYsgaFZSRpwt7XBc0JZAd26JW2X3Ndv1dQII9wN6oLY5oH6t8baiZJas od/F9BFliBQhvEKNmwQNsCzfMt+maz2dz9M9yelLpRaTihTxWXyCMrgi0wJlJckE+vhQ fx0T/syL6/la81pCjm9WVOe9aGBc48OPRRNYxzdCb+QeN6orARc05ub3vNDG7BLINhhM jWoZ4Qe8p0LYXlYVpeK5j8VZt7NqEOfcG+5XWejDIygWZpnt+SEXbCBqr8J+9H7AcRwE HmGA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :references:user-agent:mime-version; bh=PKgKtKP9UnDuvR3bO69Uh8nZW0tRY16ecKtrWQGinzU=; b=AwZuZqu853rzZ8YSLzh662KIocQl0qKDogTWzMS+I4sf0d9yzit+bXirwXBj/rx2Ot 1UtDqiIWZGukMkp4ZC0Eq88+acNkFT8ax/Jc+6oL2UPrju2ldyVNf4sX+qQfrr4c+eWR nDPDJfjNgklyIAviqGAjg4KD8atE2dxH8M4k3oQFW6fIiFgBrLn0lrpGwUqSBP2KoNFf 52A926hc76TR7CNNJkHsa1x3xXSZclhN+HXfMwZw4FWDkO6N9vFTcM7GmGcMbpFyjor9 5+RgnkcbSPHoaIvMnUSb/gjNPzIF8Rn67gfDtZgvj2vULpJIpD1QYtkpElNNqiINFogS wf4w== X-Gm-Message-State: AE9vXwOg+PdJNM8scPVZdtUcl7V4DSXC2mhWe93oyxRDbS/aryniLV6YRD02aoreshxovw== X-Received: by 10.202.240.135 with SMTP id o129mr20638354oih.14.1474828456071; Sun, 25 Sep 2016 11:34:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Vulcan.local (76-234-69-149.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.69.149]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o8sm525346oia.28.2016.09.25.11.34.14 (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 25 Sep 2016 11:34:15 -0700 (PDT) From: John Wiegley X-Google-Original-From: "John Wiegley" Received: by Vulcan.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 32FE4287395D; Sun, 25 Sep 2016 11:34:14 -0700 (PDT) To: Andreas Schwab Subject: Re: bug#24518: 25.2.50; dired-mark-extension with prefix arg fails In-Reply-To: <8737kp2ih4.fsf@linux-m68k.org> (Andreas Schwab's message of "Sat, 24 Sep 2016 21:41:43 +0200") Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2016 11:34:08 -0700 Message-ID: References: <837fa1cy6l.fsf@gnu.org> <8337kpcvdc.fsf@gnu.org> <874m554ey2.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83y42hbe3g.fsf@gnu.org> <87oa3d2qho.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83vaxlb5ge.fsf@gnu.org> <87fuop2jsy.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83intlaygm.fsf@gnu.org> <8737kp2ih4.fsf@linux-m68k.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.130014 (Ma Gnus v0.14) Emacs/25.1 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24518 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , tino.calancha@gmail.com, Richard Stallman , 24518@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>>>> "AS" =3D=3D Andreas Schwab writes: AS> Yes, it is. It's a misfeature. It makes it alien with all the other dir= ed AS> commands. Hello, I'm just joining this conversation, but I've read all the backlog. First, if Eli believes that maintenance requires retaining a 22 year old feature -- however improbable its use, however idiosyncratic its behavior w= hen compared to other dired commands -- that's the end of the discussion here. I ask that you respect this. You need to convince your maintainer of the meri= ts of the change, not argue that his decision is without ground. He has all the ground he needs due to his role on this project. Do I think it's a wart that should be fixed? Maybe. But we have to tread ve= ry carefully here. We have a commitment to those whom we maintain Emacs for: to avoid gratuitously changing long-standing behavior without considering every angle. If we allowed everyone to change whatever annoyed them, just because they thought it was an improvement, we'd be in a terrible state. I'd like to see a couple of things happen from here: 1. Begin a discussion on emacs-devel about the behavior of this command. Solicit the wisdom of other old-timers on that list. Present your case dispassionately, in terms of what we gain from such a change. 2. Somehow poll our users to find out if, truly, no one uses this command.= We may not find those people -- to date, we've been terrible at effective polling -- but if we can't find a single person who wants the feature, = and many who want uniformity, at least we have some data to consider. Calling each other reasonable or unreasonable, or debating this as though it should "just be obvious" and thus Eli's opinion doesn't matter, is not the = way to make progress. _What he says goes_, because in the end, he controls who = is allowed to commit changes and who isn't. Let's focus on the technical issues, and broaden the discussion. So far, a heated debate between three people will never convince me that we need to change 22 years of prior art, either. =2D-=20 John Wiegley GPG fingerprint =3D 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2 --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGcBAEBCgAGBQJX6BihAAoJEMFE2PTxn+Ywz0AMAJEJ18i+KQDqnPs4VbR/N22i BY3DovKjGc/GyU1OL5l6uA136xIZaVu5f3HkojCDfdVjpoyuSg4NnaEfcREP10Jk rBI89ZPD0Gz8FY5krceVDCHG1SErDAQMHRW4m1BxG5Uq+AD54GspYghJxi9XuME3 xfPdOV+fM9H7KV6s/THZDh0J/23NzrNoXYIBuv+6XH5ZXbnLTJih6QA344qMT45l 32Qj/3+vXmd4yXFJgpHq5DDQki6iKmDtLurtUQSX2yae3MGDk77CCBatyDljRO61 Yf9N8QtkU7oIp012cNSWIJsTt7Oru1zkCpqPrOi7NWfOYUneSeOBOKnmTN+sLaGF HlcN7e+4pxPT99knByaInQV3iRg2aAqMiCMsg5f+gxxqYK30xY+q2YTqqP73+zck 14Wa5E3EGkAtNJUGPq1PQrZnRaAWJIJnI8ygA+JKIlCSJY/tLeq4sG5xj9paKHo+ PbqEJAMfIEh0JYhxPuR+m+Sk0TwVmH5sQItOp6kOoQ== =f3sN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From unknown Fri Aug 15 18:49:55 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. 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