Subject: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like `

From: Eli Zaretskii <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2016 20:48:33 +0300

> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2016 09:02:32 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Drew Adams <[email-masked]>
> Cc: [email-masked]
> 
> > > Again, this is emacs -Q.
> > 
> > That doesn't matter, since Emacs doesn't control the fonts
> > installed on the user's system, much less how they look.
> 
> IIUC, Emacs tries to influence the default font, even if it
> cannot completely control what it will be.  And the font in
> question is one of the most common (on MS Windows).

It is by far the most common and the best, which is why Emacs uses it
by default.

> > Like I said: if some
> > user cannot distinguish between these characters, I see no other
> > solution for the problem except font customizations, since only the
> > user on her system can DTRT with the fonts that are available.
> 
> Are you saying that Emacs has no role in guiding the default
> font toward being Courier New on MS Windows - that there is no
> way to guide it toward being another font?  Emacs has no influence
> at all on which font is used by default?

No, I'm saying Emacs has no control on how different characters in
different fonts look on different platforms.  We use the best fonts
that are commonly available, but that's only the best on average, it
doesn't guarantee everyone will be happy.  That's where customizations
come into play.

> emacs -Q on MS Windows, as stated.  It's not about me (or
> my setup).  I don't use emacs -Q, except to look into bugs.

Like I said: a non-existent problem.  One more opportunity for you to
raise the old problem and request that Cartage be destroyed.

> Why do you insist on saying things like "none of us,
> including yourself, have actually witnessed it?"

Because you yourself just said that the characters look different to
you.

> > Weren't you one of those who lobbied for turning the character-folding
> > off by default?  If it were not for that lobbying, your search would
> > have succeeded.
> 
> No.  And there was no such "lobbying", by anyone.  Can you point
> to any post by me, in the long and deep discussion about this on
> emacs-devel ("On language-dependent defaults for character-folding")
> where I did that?

You just did it yourself, so I can rest my case.

> And why would it be important if I had?  Are you trying to
> mete out punishment, saying that it is my fault that Emacs
> now presents, by default, a visual confusion of single-quoting?

I'm saying that yours are double standards.

> > The look quite different to me (my system uses the same font),
> 
> You _know_ they are different.  Please look again at the screenshot
> I sent, and imagine that it does not include the window showing the
> two right next to each other, so you see what a user sees when s?he
> searches for `.

I did.  They still look different.

> > I'm not dismissing the problem.  I'm saying that I don't see a
> > solution except through user customizations.  Searching for similarly
> > looking characters is not specific to Info, it can happen elsewhere.
> > Users who bump into that frequently should customize their fonts
> > and/or turn on character-folding in search commands.
> 
> That's not a solution for the default behavior, which is what
> this bug is about.  If that is what you propose to solve the
> problem here then you are indeed dismissing the problem.

Customizations exist in Emacs for a reason.  Saying that every problem
must be solved in "emacs -Q" is absurd, especially for minor problems
such as this one, with 2 characters that look differently.

> Two possible solutions have been suggested in this thread, so far:
> 
> 1) Emacs can try to avoid using Courier New as the default font.

Not an option.  Other fonts have much less coverage, and most of them
are much uglier.  You may wish looking at them before you suggest
this.

> 2. Isearch can fold "single-quote" chars (i.e., chars that could
>    be confused in this regard), by default.

I'm okay with that, but my opinions on that were overruled.

> Please note, BTW, that I have _not_ opposed #2, just as I did
> _not_ "lobby for turning the character-folding off by default"
> during the general emacs-devel discussion.

Sure, you did.  You just prefer to deny it now.

> What's not helpful is dismissing the problem or casting blame for
> it.

I agree.  Do you realize that this is what you are doing?