From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 22 13:04:48 2016 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Sep 2016 17:04:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60862 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bn7QW-0004ds-Cu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 13:04:48 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:42053) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bn7QU-0004dg-OH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 13:04:47 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bn7QK-00032W-Ai for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 13:04:41 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:53686) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bn7QK-00031h-84 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 13:04:36 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33010) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bn7QH-0001By-Uw for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 13:04:34 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bn7QE-0002y4-OE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 13:04:33 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:29598) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bn7QE-0002xY-Gp for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 13:04:30 -0400 Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u8MH4TPe020393 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 17:04:29 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u8MH4St9021802 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 17:04:29 GMT Received: from abhmp0017.oracle.com (abhmp0017.oracle.com [141.146.116.23]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u8MH4SHZ004895 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 17:04:28 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2016 10:04:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) emacs -Q C-h r g Dired C-s `list finds nothing, missing the occurrence of =E2=80=98list-directory=E2=80=99 t= hat is in the same node. What looks exactly (AFAICT) like the backquote you typed at the prompt is NOT the same as the character that precedes "list-directory" in the buffer. And it is not matched to that character by Isearch. That character is LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK. What you see is definitely NOT what you get. And you wonder... Emacs provides a default font where these two characters are visually indistinguishable. And then it distinguishes them by default when you try to search. This is extremely user-UNfriendly. The default font for Emacs should be changed. Or else search should, by default, find the character used when you type a backquote char. Or else the character used, by default, should be backquote, not LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK. Or some other reasonable solution should be found, to remedy this annoyance. The DEFAULT behavior of Emacs should not be so confusing, user-unfriendly, cumbersome, and, well, unusable. It is a common operation to search through our manuals for names that are within "single-quote" delimiters. In the past, these delimiters were backquote and apostrophe: `...', and keys that insert those chars are nearly ubiquitous on western keyboards. Not so, the "single-quote" delimiters used now. Hard to believe this annoyance has gotten as far as it has (release 25.1). Did no one try searching our manuals using Emacs -Q? In GNU Emacs 25.1.1 (x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2016-09-17 built on LAPHROAIG Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: 'configure --without-dbus --without-compress-install CFLAGS=3D-static' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 22 14:40:13 2016 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Sep 2016 18:40:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60924 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bn8ur-0007F6-0O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 14:40:13 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:33695) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bn8up-0007Ep-7j for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 14:40:11 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bn8ug-0005Hb-5x for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 14:40:06 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:33110) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bn8ug-0005H6-3S; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 14:40:02 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1903 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1bn8uc-0006WB-AQ; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 14:40:00 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2016 21:40:07 +0300 Message-Id: <83intneq2g.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> (message from Drew Adams on Thu, 22 Sep 2016 10:04:27 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) > Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2016 10:04:27 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > > emacs -Q > > C-h r g Dired > C-s `list > > finds nothing, missing the occurrence of ‘list-directory’ that is in the > same node. > > What looks exactly (AFAICT) like the backquote you typed at the prompt > is NOT the same as the character that precedes "list-directory" in the > buffer. It doesn't look exactly like it here. In fact, it looks quite different. Although it could be that on your system Emacs uses different fonts than those on mine. But if 2 characters from 2 different fonts look the same on your system, I think you should customize the Info faces to countermand that. I don't see any other solution. > And it is not matched to that character by Isearch. It might, if you turn on character-folding in Isearch. Unfortunately, that is off by default. > Emacs provides a default font where these two characters are visually > indistinguishable. Emacs doesn't provide any fonts. Your system does. On my system, these two characters look different, even with my old weary eyes. > Hard to believe this annoyance has gotten as far as it has (release > 25.1). Did no one try searching our manuals using Emacs -Q? We did. It works for me. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 22 15:59:03 2016 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Sep 2016 19:59:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60976 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnA98-0002Es-UJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 15:59:03 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:47207) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnA96-0002EO-Pl for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 15:59:01 -0400 Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u8MJwsgh010007 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2016 19:58:54 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u8MJwr7Z019202 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2016 19:58:54 GMT Received: from abhmp0017.oracle.com (abhmp0017.oracle.com [141.146.116.23]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u8MJwp6F028768; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 19:58:52 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <7f9c8f95-a04d-4e94-9c17-8a348bf89215@default> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2016 12:58:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <83intneq2g.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83intneq2g.fsf@gnu.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="__1474574331311235638abhmp0017.oracle.com" X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) --__1474574331311235638abhmp0017.oracle.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > emacs -Q > > C-h r g Dired > > C-s `list > > finds nothing, missing the occurrence of =E2=80=98list-directory=E2=80= =99 that > > is in the same node. > > > > What looks exactly (AFAICT) like the backquote you typed at the > > prompt is NOT the same as the character that precedes > > "list-directory" in the buffer. >=20 > It doesn't look exactly like it here. In fact, it looks quite > different. Although it could be that on your system Emacs uses > different fonts than those on mine. See attached screenshot. No, they are not EXACTLY the same. But a user who is used to searching for ` (from the backquote key) in such a context can easily think that it IS the same character. S?he can easily either think (1) that the text s?he (thought s?he was) searching for is not present (e.g., if s?he does not see it) or (2) that Isearch is not working properly for some reason. > But if 2 characters from 2 different fonts look the same on your > system, I think you should customize the Info faces to countermand > that. I don't see any other solution. Again, this is emacs -Q. The chars look quite different with my own setup - this is not a problem for me, personally. This is a problem for Emacs. This is using the default font (on my platform, which is nevertheless a common one: MS Windows). This is the font used by emacs -Q: -outline-Courier New-normal-normal-normal-mono-17-*-*-*-c-*-iso8859-1 That's a very common MS Windows fixed-width font. And it has, in the past, been a reasonable default choice. Doesn't seem so reasonable anymore. > > And it is not matched to that character by Isearch. >=20 > It might, if you turn on character-folding in Isearch. > Unfortunately, that is off by default. I did mention that this is what a user sees by DEFAULT, no? And I did propose that one fix could be for search to find this character - by default - when you hit the backquote key: The default font for Emacs should be changed. Or else search should, by default, find the character used when you type a backquote char. Or else the character used, by default, should be backquote, not LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK. Or some other reasonable solution should be found, to remedy this annoyance. > > Emacs provides a default font where these two characters are > > visually indistinguishable. >=20 > Emacs doesn't provide any fonts. Your system does. On my system, > these two characters look different, even with my old weary eyes. They look slightly different, yes. Barely noticeable when you see them side by side (see screenshot). But otherwise not noticeable enough that someone used to Emacs < 25.1 would expect that the ` s?he types (as s?he always has, for this) does not result in the same character s?he sees as a name left delimiter. If you do not want to accept that this is an obvious gotcha, fine. Perhaps you will hear from other users about this; perhaps not. > > Hard to believe this annoyance has gotten as far as it has (release > > 25.1). Did no one try searching our manuals using Emacs -Q? >=20 > We did. It works for me. If it works for you then that's all we can hope for, I guess. --__1474574331311235638abhmp0017.oracle.com Content-Type: image/png; name="throw-Emacs-25-backquote-search.png" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="throw-Emacs-25-backquote-search.png" iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAA00AAAHECAIAAABqQVZCAAAgAElEQVR4nOzceVRUV54H8N99r+rV QlFsxaIiCoIoiAmLBsEFV1BQEwMq0SEaR8+YxBiT9NjJ5Dh2cjrT00uMUSej6bjGuKImBkGj4oYi 7gqyKihQLFJAgRTU8u6dPwpKNAU4Jtqxz+9zfodz67737g9f+cf33KIe0el00CE2NhYQQgghhNBz qLq62mKx5OXl2WaINefFxsaq1erly5cHBQV5e3v/435DhBBCCCH0JERRLNU1xryWYrxxsTA/H6w5 LzY2ds6cOUlJST9erftH/4YIIYQQQujJRY0MzNfWvBUzvDA/n+h0uqSkpK1bt6Zd1fV8KUIIIYQQ +m0bFOU/Z9Gia+u/5I8fP75ixYoLVTwQwMLCwsLCwsLCet6rrqI+cWFKfMggEhERsX///vQbDY8k QcYYAAAQQqC+rLb5jh4ALK0WQkBQSRz7uQCAk7eGMQbACOGedVJFCCGEEEJdcA4f8F54IImIiDh9 +vS3J0o6H2OMEUIAoElbrz1fyTGFwtkRAAjPm42isbnN3NwMABK12XuUr6O7M2MUADDtIYQQQuiX MDTri2/m6Rse3X76tTi5uAQEBSsdnZ5xL2lDzbGvVmvz83q86sn0Hhw8fvFSs4unbcbhRd/Pp8aQ 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0MYeLS-1bRjZS2jaM-00VNsD for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 22:02:25 +0200 Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= Message-ID: <7c7f7117-78d2-5909-b46c-c8db18cf7396@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2016 16:02:15 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="eh5Rh4BuvICBkvnwQ9atmgJnalvJQuOhP" X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:JmlNUc3lET1PuaZrTu79w33rCHCI8thgL45iFaYFpH3ffy9Yl9y gP9St1XlUL0XAjQ6ON7f/qD/bzvS709RfxAJSYIITOWQpLVFBx39dZYORjHnRpAnp8a0mH7 EslAowQMnY88l7ZSi4AMCriJ8w0yip8H57pf0l2+9KMbDORg725QlIz/mUJk+qHVzkepCk9 TSC/dWi+9Vi5wENsZNLug== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:x1w0FCZqhTg=:QyO2WEIQCzCERB87pRGTPl BvXv2E2O8EikjqW85ksOfzThdPfftB8SqT2Bf5+tWPue7RKQ42oh39MXKsD0d6+xg+wlzUcFf f61S4LhjngWotGMkYXFwcxzUjvI8ZzE4cgfY/X2Qx9rnbHsYYPJuiVy6pJlOqpikxaYcYyBah pV+CiZMMxDnrg2O6eMfWEWmZQz5crkQvjnILVQ+ChG2OpEL0ODDLCn5sR6s+uz4yq2OTKWxHH qF0yyUvmpZsrmU0myURy5L1tIYKEB+V9AxQ4pgPpYYPRwSJGbl9E1Do4PhTfr/XhBVrS9NbzQ Ahv/VV1WnfGkkTvIZeyI69i+EoDfytZd5ihN/StqMOluRHXSY0qzQR+zGuVkP9r6sLdP992jJ M3y+E+4yLXXLqbWhwj8Z6CGXVTSmfW5ZZ9/2sBpBOowKtmnpQ9grhJDMMLpbhJEKAnGd4AJXJ /JkCHJuchSBZLMujtb0E7jYovci3BItIYT41tybSsYwDyoO59tvdV6eAGCwTv3NywplmMDGxH oq9VE7+CXJXFPRdGcna68lFpx9Nnl19jZSQ4mC/MvjR+N5+CWjIIfDzdgLolzG6qV+nLjjWZ3 OeIR0v5w5wnfHgZE/d5egyq5gOtXFeXvFDvqK7g1Nyj1mikbJqwDfhtgqE3sOh/32BfPGDKpT yjVmnynLxyWSGqNCIpGWRgcggaIAogOQVkNGgZTXQCjudmhDUKd5PqUb1uUC+pAKxzcE= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --eh5Rh4BuvICBkvnwQ9atmgJnalvJQuOhP Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="9RVGN1XI7cGMKtL9uJBd1cTNaELJvnsTv"; protected-headers="v1" From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-ID: <7c7f7117-78d2-5909-b46c-c8db18cf7396@gmail.com> Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> In-Reply-To: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> --9RVGN1XI7cGMKtL9uJBd1cTNaELJvnsTv Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------E13AD712124E1F3D77863C64" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------E13AD712124E1F3D77863C64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2016-09-22 13:04, Drew Adams wrote: > What looks exactly (AFAICT) like the backquote you typed at the prompt > is NOT the same as the character that precedes "list-directory" in the > buffer. And it is not matched to that character by Isearch. That > character is LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK. >=20 > What you see is definitely NOT what you get. And you wonder... Hi Drew, I wonder which fonts you're using. I've attached a screenshot of what it= looks for me in emacs -Q. 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helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnAom-0003Cc-Tt for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 16:42:05 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:46171) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnAol-0003C8-53 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 16:42:03 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnAoe-0002jn-WA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 16:41:58 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:59844) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnAoe-0002iu-TL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 16:41:56 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37081) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnAoc-0002ji-PY for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 16:41:55 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnAoZ-0002fz-BB for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 16:41:53 -0400 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.187]:57882) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnAoZ-0002fN-0n for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 16:41:51 -0400 Received: from [18.26.2.123] ([18.26.2.123]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue003) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Mh8o1-1baCPE24Hp-00MKzO for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 22:41:49 +0200 Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <83intneq2g.fsf@gnu.org> <7f9c8f95-a04d-4e94-9c17-8a348bf89215@default> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= Message-ID: <4efff3a1-59ae-5009-b4de-d1ea17c2e84d@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2016 16:41:34 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <7f9c8f95-a04d-4e94-9c17-8a348bf89215@default> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Mc3HWaa0X0wXaFaRc5EJDneOKjI3NismE" X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:YfEaLcjw5GNgsefp4DNJEUeSEyQ7J8RpSHvfJ6qva+cubd/6+71 ZMA428UbhO7wcb8ii4l9yyVEK7A9ogSmwa9GK5m0WYPSdNPzLYyXp/V2iQ0TgsPUjMIL8KC H8Svd9Ay/gjjAMASBp/fv8Z+wBlyxUBpFY8Tkhw6NF0R+UN5k2JSV/WoeEi67/+2Km1TSfe GQS+w2VPl1eogA7wH7Ysw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:XHUnX6gdG2Y=:c6tdZfx2cPIwIf83KJtAer /LH1bpz6+c7kLn/gCK2tW9P7veXB+IhGbYZe45MQQoZ974LL8QExSNVsUeIrOmIsx6vHqtD2A EKYTVQfGQKYlE7NO9OaGngCOOP1GGQHTj7auzHHQpKsoPJVKINY9jYVUqK/u62afoMliiyazQ 8On+QyG4X8cZ3qDNJa/kF9Lq4/sHlalGDTufGU2xgvDHiLcjkxYYBG/mvps3WOiwbaTt2jJaI xF3Li6lj4hmZScn4JyYmQXB0RgIMWuCgeZ1J99SrmKfjmuIZ9CHsDpmDxsyk4BRW02w3aZloh 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--Mc3HWaa0X0wXaFaRc5EJDneOKjI3NismE Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="iFi0hhGCWLA7037qH3lTxAJkMEcXQSL2k"; protected-headers="v1" From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-ID: <4efff3a1-59ae-5009-b4de-d1ea17c2e84d@gmail.com> Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <83intneq2g.fsf@gnu.org> <7f9c8f95-a04d-4e94-9c17-8a348bf89215@default> In-Reply-To: <7f9c8f95-a04d-4e94-9c17-8a348bf89215@default> --iFi0hhGCWLA7037qH3lTxAJkMEcXQSL2k Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2016-09-22 15:58, Drew Adams wrote: >>> And it is not matched to that character by Isearch. >> >=20 >> > It might, if you turn on character-folding in Isearch. >> > Unfortunately, that is off by default. > > I did mention that this is what a user sees by DEFAULT, no? >=20 > And I did propose that one fix could be for search to find > this character - by default - when you hit the backquote key: The fix that you propose was already discussed, albeit as part of a large= r change (the one that Eli pointed to, namely enabling character folding = by default). And Eli was, IIRC, in favor of it. Do you think it would be useful to have a specific hack for just ` vs =E2= =80=98? I'd find it very confusing. Maybe we can come up with a more limited version of character folding, an= d enable that by default? This should solve this problem, right? Cl=C3=A9ment. --iFi0hhGCWLA7037qH3lTxAJkMEcXQSL2k-- --Mc3HWaa0X0wXaFaRc5EJDneOKjI3NismE Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJX5EIMAAoJEPqg+cTm90wjsJQQAKAUQZZ02wrKh+hFSEi9sMnr 9AJPTd0tG9Sc4lQBzycIFIjxwSE5nQNHjsks9kchYZvFX+TfZ7HeKaqsdvVCahz4 EWIroWrck4h4YZ+avFkuvALcproL0ouzCnPYIW8bZPK4Kc3H6+KYqlQFGT/BlWy1 xZYWM7zMMP0dxMqK9/dueMlAFgBMEblYg1qnKNJTvlOkIgpDeHdK4qJkfrjUohQV 9oSBJd8GfeTflK3PDE9PGNf3ZJW2j+pgV9GTKBLs6uLZb41CwewN4PbX370GLNkV /wFEFmjTWc8gKdj/9tgX8nShnSGNk2quPCdFd0O4iZBW/4CiUlo78Ir+FxNFnSno TcCzWBg29EbhbHh7lSpCWJNG4e/cV8/2mFtBXu4Toytgay0tLQ36ZrCd0cqhdhQX 6GMERsUMmSPeoKpqlmE8E7bapF1rEG1Oo2JOPMeiXVXl7GXMOg4hAtD+hI63IPqj 2oZBijUC36j+DSdMAEFZ1sMb2TW6a/lzd9/7By2gHhfkFiiCTkeeVzAjayHyXMrC +RGD8/Zgdydhw5ecQXhXm+kN703CzDCpkvWHsntUIzlRenqvKR6dZqILK4vc9a08 aT8PR8Mp61HeO5nD+PW+1R3HZYJJDL9hWeFj9WoxmxsvSlOHtoLc5mESINwWHUYG B2+8NFvLqrkR43JtFtPA =90rD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Mc3HWaa0X0wXaFaRc5EJDneOKjI3NismE-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 22 17:17:15 2016 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Sep 2016 21:17:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32768 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnBMp-0003zh-3p for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 17:17:15 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:22872) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnBMn-0003zV-0d for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 17:17:13 -0400 Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u8MLH6Xw015990 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2016 21:17:07 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u8MLH6se014168 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2016 21:17:06 GMT Received: from abhmp0017.oracle.com (abhmp0017.oracle.com [141.146.116.23]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u8MLH0qp015430; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 21:17:06 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2016 14:16:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: =?utf-8?B?Q2zDqW1lbnQgUGl0LS1DbGF1ZGVs?= , 24510@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: RE: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <83intneq2g.fsf@gnu.org> <7f9c8f95-a04d-4e94-9c17-8a348bf89215@default> <4efff3a1-59ae-5009-b4de-d1ea17c2e84d@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4efff3a1-59ae-5009-b4de-d1ea17c2e84d@gmail.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-Spam-Score: -5.4 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.4 (-----) > >>> And it is not matched to that character by Isearch. > >> > > >> > It might, if you turn on character-folding in Isearch. > >> > Unfortunately, that is off by default. > > > > I did mention that this is what a user sees by DEFAULT, no? > > > > And I did propose that one fix could be for search to find > > this character - by default - when you hit the backquote key: >=20 > The fix that you propose was already discussed, albeit as part of a large= r > change (the one that Eli pointed to, namely enabling character folding by > default). And Eli was, IIRC, in favor of it. >=20 > Do you think it would be useful to have a specific hack for just ` vs =E2= =80=98? > I'd find it very confusing. >=20 > Maybe we can come up with a more limited version of character folding, an= d > enable that by default? This should solve this problem, right? I've brought the problem to your attention. A solution would be good to have. It should not be enough that the response is (1) "It works for me" and (2) users need to customize their fonts, to fix things on their end. That's not the right approach, IMO. >From a user point of view, and ignoring whatever good or bad reasons might be behind the changes made, (1) Info now uses curly quotes, by default, to delimit names, and (2) Isearch does not, by default, fold ` and ' so that they match those new delimiters. This combination is not good, for users. If the delimiters must be changed to curly quotes, AND if they are not noticeably different (i.e., quite obviously different) from the characters that users have used to search for delimited names for decades (since the beginning of Emacs), then Isearch needs to fold them by default, I think. Another solution, which I also mentioned, is to try to ensure that in the default font, for at least common platforms (and MS Windows is one of those, I think), the delimiter chars are quite obviously different from ` and '. If you do not want to enable char-folding by default in 25.1, or at least quote-folding, then I think the default font needs to be changed, to make this newly imposed character discrepency blatantly obvious to users. And the doc and NEWS need to prominently point out to users that names in Info are now delimited using characters for which they (probably) do not have simple keyboard keys. That message should also tell them how to insert the delimiter chars in search strings (toggle char-folding or otherwise insert them). Do you see another solution? Pop up a message whenever they insert a backquote followed by a letter into the search string, warning them that a backquote does not match a name delimiter? Warn them to customize their font, if they want to avoid confusion? I don't think so. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 22 18:10:56 2016 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Sep 2016 22:10:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32780 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnCCl-0005CQ-KA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 18:10:56 -0400 Received: from mail-oi0-f53.google.com ([209.85.218.53]:34456) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnCCj-0005C0-9Z for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 18:10:54 -0400 Received: by mail-oi0-f53.google.com with SMTP id a62so114715414oib.1 for <24510@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 15:10:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=jkODgrF+zc4OuBOW/+0k4jQBxjuciMV/yr38wB/PYoc=; b=ht4SpoXIKvJODPSZLECO2gtCG+61Hh+/nnMAkQDuqN4hO8G1MQ8FCMSgCvPJhOkfzB QcB3uftopBxyC3Vc1QnguaIjnEvLJKZmQMcCboELQxJvvknW3LTZt3GRx7tr7WB4gXuj ChaldeSvfA/gsQm313xtBSqcHzSFMveSP3TinyUNPJus0lU9vKccsTV7l7PGqpJqkvuC JgaFDS5cbtABL4kB9un8JBbHQBFLJfsEdx0r2JjpsktRA9K1TYlkafbK77bpdcQXZFgx 9YtJj+dwsmw/TVzbkut2PqnMLCRZcnFeeF29fnt67uLUwd3Y29AssLuvX3wN2fA/tY2r S5Rg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=jkODgrF+zc4OuBOW/+0k4jQBxjuciMV/yr38wB/PYoc=; b=AoX05Zp8UAj/NOv0kBmvoSYQ8qQLETDZ5olkkPAgcDRkxSm+z49lb9Epnh27trz7gL bDWhHCFxFKULgaD8zTwHqVREwTjxjHQW3MIo2hAgtDYZ2StZeN5EOSjBmr0gZ73/UNoM 2r6b+m2nELoOmBYN5sWUo8CElIPg4YkdamYm/6G6E4FcgP++jJZiAaHGBAONODDCEXPe I1TZaR1c7vrLRYflVFUuP7mKr+dFdSmwF29zG4gRU4oTO21+nrgSS+GWNhCEhyTBFFjA zcPiqYuas64byxkjPALHO3CCkamekJjiPsRX1eevXLA4uUclxlvijB6aO8vgk647nipg xNiQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AE9vXwNopcp6d/6t65lo30SQsr+4flNdMmIEKtzYX6rouCFmzZZBaK+YmMfimLrZWIh6okw7/gVap0wnBpEomg== X-Received: by 10.202.81.2 with SMTP id f2mr5609322oib.38.1474582247799; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 15:10:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.41.144 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 15:10:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> From: Noam Postavsky Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2016 18:10:47 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: sueSEjrL1sPKhoEgVFuVZbXNVo4 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` To: Drew Adams Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) found 24510 24.5 severity 24510 minor quit On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Drew Adams wrote: > Hard to believe this annoyance has gotten as far as it has (release > 25.1). I see the same in the 24.5 release. > Did no one try searching our manuals using Emacs -Q? Nobody reads the manual. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 22 18:27:42 2016 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Sep 2016 22:27:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32786 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnCT0-0007Bw-9h for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 18:27:42 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:50516) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnCSy-0007Bi-W4 for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 18:27:41 -0400 Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u8MMRX0Q022513 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2016 22:27:33 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u8MMRWAR024382 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2016 22:27:32 GMT Received: from abhmp0017.oracle.com (abhmp0017.oracle.com [141.146.116.23]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u8MMRVYX012572; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 22:27:32 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2016 15:27:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Noam Postavsky Subject: RE: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-Spam-Score: -5.4 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.4 (-----) > I see the same in the 24.5 release. Yes; same here. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 23 02:54:39 2016 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Sep 2016 06:54:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32981 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnKNb-0004Nl-Ah for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 02:54:39 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:36669) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnKNZ-0004NZ-RF for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 02:54:38 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnKNR-0007Aa-C8 for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 02:54:32 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:42469) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnKNR-0007AE-8f; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 02:54:29 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2601 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1bnKNP-000111-I4; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 02:54:27 -0400 Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2016 09:54:54 +0300 Message-Id: <83d1jvds1t.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: <7f9c8f95-a04d-4e94-9c17-8a348bf89215@default> (message from Drew Adams on Thu, 22 Sep 2016 12:58:49 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <83intneq2g.fsf@gnu.org> <7f9c8f95-a04d-4e94-9c17-8a348bf89215@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) > Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2016 12:58:49 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 24510@debbugs.gnu.org > > > But if 2 characters from 2 different fonts look the same on your > > system, I think you should customize the Info faces to countermand > > that. I don't see any other solution. > > Again, this is emacs -Q. That doesn't matter, since Emacs doesn't control the fonts installed on the user's system, much less how they look. Like I said: if some user cannot distinguish between these characters, I see no other solution for the problem except font customizations, since only the user on her system can DTRT with the fonts that are available. > The chars look quite different with my own setup - this is not a > problem for me, personally. Then what exactly is the nature of the problem you raise? Is it a hypothetical issue that _might_ happen on someone's machine, even though none of us, including yourself, have actually witnessed it? > > It might, if you turn on character-folding in Isearch. > > Unfortunately, that is off by default. > > I did mention that this is what a user sees by DEFAULT, no? Weren't you one of those who lobbied for turning the character-folding off by default? If it were not for that lobbying, your search would have succeeded. > > Emacs doesn't provide any fonts. Your system does. On my system, > > these two characters look different, even with my old weary eyes. > > They look slightly different, yes. Barely noticeable when you > see them side by side (see screenshot). The look quite different to me (my system uses the same font), so I guess we will have to agree to disagree about that. > If you do not want to accept that this is an obvious gotcha, fine. > Perhaps you will hear from other users about this; perhaps not. > > > > Hard to believe this annoyance has gotten as far as it has (release > > > 25.1). Did no one try searching our manuals using Emacs -Q? > > > > We did. It works for me. > > If it works for you then that's all we can hope for, I guess. I'm not dismissing the problem. I'm saying that I don't see a solution except through user customizations. Searching for similarly looking characters is not specific to Info, it can happen elsewhere. Users who bump into that frequently should customize their fonts and/or turn on character-folding in search commands. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 23 12:02:50 2016 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Sep 2016 16:02:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33650 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnSw6-0002jV-8C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 12:02:50 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:24589) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnSw4-0002jJ-Jw for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 12:02:49 -0400 Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u8NG2fJB017651 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2016 16:02:42 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u8NG2eDD001478 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2016 16:02:41 GMT Received: from abhmp0006.oracle.com (abhmp0006.oracle.com [141.146.116.12]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u8NG2XXs026282; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 16:02:39 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2016 09:02:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <<6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default>> <<83intneq2g.fsf@gnu.org>> <<7f9c8f95-a04d-4e94-9c17-8a348bf89215@default>> <<83d1jvds1t.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83d1jvds1t.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-Spam-Score: -5.4 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.4 (-----) > > Again, this is emacs -Q. >=20 > That doesn't matter, since Emacs doesn't control the fonts > installed on the user's system, much less how they look. IIUC, Emacs tries to influence the default font, even if it cannot completely control what it will be. And the font in question is one of the most common (on MS Windows). > Like I said: if some > user cannot distinguish between these characters, I see no other > solution for the problem except font customizations, since only the > user on her system can DTRT with the fonts that are available. Are you saying that Emacs has no role in guiding the default font toward being Courier New on MS Windows - that there is no way to guide it toward being another font? Emacs has no influence at all on which font is used by default? In that case, indeed, we have a usability problem, Houston, since this is a very common fixed-width font. > > The chars look quite different with my own setup - this is > > not a problem for me, personally. >=20 > Then what exactly is the nature of the problem you raise? emacs -Q on MS Windows, as stated. It's not about me (or my setup). I don't use emacs -Q, except to look into bugs. > Is it a hypothetical issue that _might_ happen on someone's > machine, even though none of us, including yourself, have > actually witnessed it? It is a real problem, which I witness systematically with emacs -Q. It is, I expect, a real problem for many, even most, users on MS Windows. Why do you insist on saying things like "none of us, including yourself, have actually witnessed it?" What is the point of such a preposterous claim? Clearly I _have_ witnessed the problem and reported it, including showing a screenshot. If you refuse to see that the emperor has no clothes, that's not my fault. I and my little camera are witness. > > > It might, if you turn on character-folding in Isearch. > > > Unfortunately, that is off by default. > > > > I did mention that this is what a user sees by DEFAULT, no? >=20 > Weren't you one of those who lobbied for turning the character-folding > off by default? If it were not for that lobbying, your search would > have succeeded. No. And there was no such "lobbying", by anyone. Can you point to any post by me, in the long and deep discussion about this on emacs-devel ("On language-dependent defaults for character-folding") where I did that? =20 And why would it be important if I had? Are you trying to mete out punishment, saying that it is my fault that Emacs now presents, by default, a visual confusion of single-quoting? You didn't get your way, but that's not my fault. FYI, this is what I _actually_ said, in reply to your insistence that the feature be on by default for 25.1, after the consensus seemed to have been reached to leave it off by default (there was one dissenter -you- and several, like me, for whom the default behavior was much less important than other questions): d> I don't see anyone proposing to throw out the bathwater, d> much less the baby with it. d> =20 d> Eli, you say here, quite often, that you think discussions d> about what the default behavior of a feature should be are d> typically fruitless, if not sterile. But it seems clear d> that you care quite a lot about this default behavior. d> =20 d> I'd say let it go. There will be Emacs 25.2 and beyond. d> And users will try this new feature and give their feedback, d> which I expect will be overwhelmingly positive - and d> informative for further discussions here. d> =20 d> Based on user feedback and further discussion and analysis d> here (this is not going away), Emacs Dev will improve and d> elaborate this feature. We will have better ideas about how d> to handle all of the things that are currently not so clear. d> There is plenty of time to decide again whether this or that d> should be turned on by default. d> =20 d> What seems clear to me for Emacs 25.1 is that the feature d> should be included AND that it should be simple to both (1) d> customize the default behavior for a given user (i.e., what d> behavior search starts with, a la `case-fold-search') and d> (2) toggle the behavior on the fly, during Isearch. d> =20 d> Given (1) and (2), users can do what they like, and we can d> learn later from them what behaviors might best be adopted d> for defaulting. And this is John's response to that: d> What seems clear to me for Emacs 25.1 is that the feature d> should be included AND that it should be simple to both (1) d> customize the default behavior for a given user (i.e., what d> behavior search starts with, a la `case-fold-search') and d> (2) toggle the behavior on the fly, during Isearch. j> j> I think Drew has summarized perfectly what I would like to j> see happen. In addition, I'd add one more item: Once 25.1 is j> released, I (or another) will write a blog article publicizing j> this feature and touting its benefits, in order to encourage j> people to try it out and discover how useful it can be. j>=20 j> However, making it a default in 25.1 is something I am simply j> not comfortable doing, giving the diversity of opinion on this j> list, plus my own misgivings about so new (and nuanced) a j> feature. Yes, the visual equality of =C3=A1 and =C3=A1 is a powerful j> argument, but as Drew said, there will be well-advertised ways j> to both enable this feature, and to toggle it while searching. j> Users will not lose any capacity by our decision, they will j> simply not experience it as a default out of the box. j>=20 j> And so, my decision is that this feature will be off by default j> in the 25.1 release, with the genuine hope that it can be made j> solid enough to become a default in a future release. It j> needn't even wait until 26.1, if we receive enough positive feedback. j>=20 j> My thanks to everyone for the extensive and conscientious debate, j> and to Eli for sticking to his guns. I am hopeful we will reach j> general consensus over time, and that this feature will come to j> be recognized as a compelling aspect of the Emacs feature set. j> Until that day, please forgive me my reservations; I'm just not j> there yet in wanting this to become a default behavior. "Sticking to his guns" was a "nice" way to put it. And he seems to still be brandishing them. > > > Emacs doesn't provide any fonts. Your system does. On my system, > > > these two characters look different, even with my old weary eyes. > > > > They look slightly different, yes. Barely noticeable when you > > see them side by side (see screenshot). >=20 > The look quite different to me (my system uses the same font), You _know_ they are different. Please look again at the screenshot I sent, and imagine that it does not include the window showing the two right next to each other, so you see what a user sees when s?he searches for `. It is not at all obvious, I would argue, that the ` in the Isearch search string is a different character from the left quotation mark in the *info* buffer. And things are even less obvious if the user cannot immediately see an occurrence of the latter character - e.g., when starting a search across nodes. > so I guess we will have to agree to disagree about that. Indeed we shall. > I'm not dismissing the problem. I'm saying that I don't see a > solution except through user customizations. Searching for similarly > looking characters is not specific to Info, it can happen elsewhere. > Users who bump into that frequently should customize their fonts > and/or turn on character-folding in search commands. That's not a solution for the default behavior, which is what this bug is about. If that is what you propose to solve the problem here then you are indeed dismissing the problem. Two possible solutions have been suggested in this thread, so far: 1) Emacs can try to avoid using Courier New as the default font. 2. Isearch can fold "single-quote" chars (i.e., chars that could be confused in this regard), by default. Please note, BTW, that I have _not_ opposed #2, just as I did _not_ "lobby for turning the character-folding off by default" during the general emacs-devel discussion. I think #1 is generally preferable. Other solution proposals are welcome. What's not helpful is dismissing the problem or casting blame for it. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 23 13:48:18 2016 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Sep 2016 17:48:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33672 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnUaA-0005Fc-1D for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 13:48:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45796) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnUa9-0005FL-46 for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 13:48:17 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnUa0-0005j0-M1 for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 13:48:11 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:51860) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnUa0-0005iu-IL; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 13:48:08 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3953 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1bnUZz-0005bG-Hw; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 13:48:08 -0400 Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2016 20:48:33 +0300 Message-Id: <83mviycxse.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: (message from Drew Adams on Fri, 23 Sep 2016 09:02:32 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <<6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default>> <<83intneq2g.fsf@gnu.org>> <<7f9c8f95-a04d-4e94-9c17-8a348bf89215@default>> <<83d1jvds1t.fsf@gnu.org>> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) > Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2016 09:02:32 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 24510@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > Again, this is emacs -Q. > > > > That doesn't matter, since Emacs doesn't control the fonts > > installed on the user's system, much less how they look. > > IIUC, Emacs tries to influence the default font, even if it > cannot completely control what it will be. And the font in > question is one of the most common (on MS Windows). It is by far the most common and the best, which is why Emacs uses it by default. > > Like I said: if some > > user cannot distinguish between these characters, I see no other > > solution for the problem except font customizations, since only the > > user on her system can DTRT with the fonts that are available. > > Are you saying that Emacs has no role in guiding the default > font toward being Courier New on MS Windows - that there is no > way to guide it toward being another font? Emacs has no influence > at all on which font is used by default? No, I'm saying Emacs has no control on how different characters in different fonts look on different platforms. We use the best fonts that are commonly available, but that's only the best on average, it doesn't guarantee everyone will be happy. That's where customizations come into play. > emacs -Q on MS Windows, as stated. It's not about me (or > my setup). I don't use emacs -Q, except to look into bugs. Like I said: a non-existent problem. One more opportunity for you to raise the old problem and request that Cartage be destroyed. > Why do you insist on saying things like "none of us, > including yourself, have actually witnessed it?" Because you yourself just said that the characters look different to you. > > Weren't you one of those who lobbied for turning the character-folding > > off by default? If it were not for that lobbying, your search would > > have succeeded. > > No. And there was no such "lobbying", by anyone. Can you point > to any post by me, in the long and deep discussion about this on > emacs-devel ("On language-dependent defaults for character-folding") > where I did that? You just did it yourself, so I can rest my case. > And why would it be important if I had? Are you trying to > mete out punishment, saying that it is my fault that Emacs > now presents, by default, a visual confusion of single-quoting? I'm saying that yours are double standards. > > The look quite different to me (my system uses the same font), > > You _know_ they are different. Please look again at the screenshot > I sent, and imagine that it does not include the window showing the > two right next to each other, so you see what a user sees when s?he > searches for `. I did. They still look different. > > I'm not dismissing the problem. I'm saying that I don't see a > > solution except through user customizations. Searching for similarly > > looking characters is not specific to Info, it can happen elsewhere. > > Users who bump into that frequently should customize their fonts > > and/or turn on character-folding in search commands. > > That's not a solution for the default behavior, which is what > this bug is about. If that is what you propose to solve the > problem here then you are indeed dismissing the problem. Customizations exist in Emacs for a reason. Saying that every problem must be solved in "emacs -Q" is absurd, especially for minor problems such as this one, with 2 characters that look differently. > Two possible solutions have been suggested in this thread, so far: > > 1) Emacs can try to avoid using Courier New as the default font. Not an option. Other fonts have much less coverage, and most of them are much uglier. You may wish looking at them before you suggest this. > 2. Isearch can fold "single-quote" chars (i.e., chars that could > be confused in this regard), by default. I'm okay with that, but my opinions on that were overruled. > Please note, BTW, that I have _not_ opposed #2, just as I did > _not_ "lobby for turning the character-folding off by default" > during the general emacs-devel discussion. Sure, you did. You just prefer to deny it now. > What's not helpful is dismissing the problem or casting blame for > it. I agree. Do you realize that this is what you are doing? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 23 16:08:16 2016 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Sep 2016 20:08:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33717 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnWlc-0001sJ-9z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 16:08:16 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:38838) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnWlb-0001s6-0R for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 16:08:15 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnWlU-0001tM-9s for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 16:08:09 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM,WEIRD_QUOTING autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:59746) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnWlU-0001sT-60 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 16:08:08 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58004) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnWlR-00051N-Hx for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 16:08:07 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnWlM-0001lV-Ae for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 16:08:04 -0400 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.187]:50080) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnWlL-0001kY-W2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 16:08:00 -0400 Received: from [18.189.53.55] ([18.189.53.55]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue004) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M4DQN-1awvwT36up-00rskL for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 22:07:59 +0200 Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org References: <<6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <<83intneq2g.fsf@gnu.org> <<7f9c8f95-a04d-4e94-9c17-8a348bf89215@default> <<83d1jvds1t.fsf@gnu.org> <83mviycxse.fsf@gnu.org> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= Message-ID: <8f6d6767-e5f4-79cc-ac3f-199cc58e92e2@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2016 16:07:51 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <83mviycxse.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="5QqATgV4a8PASMkPlH2PLjUvHJDkSBi5Q" X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:kGRCaRYOLJWrVcBSw9ohrw8SXf+PfEPtNBW+a7AIw0GoakeWj/c waRTL9uIUfGhfi+P8vsHeU/kAYPQq/JY5d+hHZFaOGtNII6Mkg07ewu01bKmICvdJ6nJmOr ORgdLRCy/+IgybiHXbHlXI13eYuwTf6RWSYI8LN9oht+n8wqBWCPsNuMc+fkBJlFaMduJxJ X9TH/RDgVBV1xtdp8yO7g== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:G+nvFMzhUII=:oWEYmsz6UPLexxNQV0LESi 44TwNWnRNCJWb/SEp4EN3MAE2Fupoq7APmDTq1DaW6Q6peImO5WQVM/jvgDFf6yK2WKkSZEHK 5NBPF/xkXo74NWqFd8n6ILql7G8BJ0QZslw3Pj1dgkYpbR+dE7lSbkZhnDkaobBE58OciIc7L T5ajvI1deYlTP521xliP0Uw3EBjhTM9iFlfOGlu/8EoCl/z8ZIF53/yhe8ohHccZjE18n/CVV +IVu374B/s2B+UXiXhHMq3s3fqjeQx4nNGgPlOAO51WGOyBi3yBFRU3cZgotvdxVl9AjYOJCk Ao8OmgAODCyNt7SPh1HjADdZQQcy4N20ZUwrTUjgNsJ5cwGsHr7porbraBjrNAzR4Bsj3G75d otfh7BFvotzRE/v67r5PamQ+giEeLFD2rKmISUlefp/Gskiu+1uF/M1eW+msmOHgh0Ax5FrPh r/jdZfjlzyfgKlAJFEStjyQMe+/PUsljruCeQeXe7m4PwpoEDqfdC4mkZvp7Qf4DWReaVHFHO T4Rj/NCCm5X+bXVC1QGkFl3/YuhaxVMEN84X96EixdoK7803SYDGkf9OatTdLQTjTm0QnBoIc Ll+YyOeP41MHp+W+J5p+WgxdGN9OtCKvb+TdgrarFixh92braFGL1PtnpPJ6gulCi1xNYgygY U93r4xphy/1fbokPIMQ62qCNSY8T0eWS3L/EBXNSWLJyVxTY8lu65uFxNU4WMbZfVZq4= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --5QqATgV4a8PASMkPlH2PLjUvHJDkSBi5Q Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="008nQ45DlxacwBQtsxamEtaAtevveDbhp"; protected-headers="v1" From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-ID: <8f6d6767-e5f4-79cc-ac3f-199cc58e92e2@gmail.com> Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <<6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <<83intneq2g.fsf@gnu.org> <<7f9c8f95-a04d-4e94-9c17-8a348bf89215@default> <<83d1jvds1t.fsf@gnu.org> <83mviycxse.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83mviycxse.fsf@gnu.org> --008nQ45DlxacwBQtsxamEtaAtevveDbhp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2016-09-23 13:48, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> > 1) Emacs can try to avoid using Courier New as the default font. > > Not an option. Other fonts have much less coverage, and most of them > are much uglier. You may wish looking at them before you suggest > this. Hi Eli, I have not used MS Windows much in a while, but one thing I missed after = I switched to GNU/Linux was Microsoft's excellent Consolas font. It was f= irst included with Windows XP, if I remember correctly. Do you think Ema= cs could try this one instead of Courier New by default? I think both Vi= sual Studio and Atom use it by default on Windows. Here's how the two fonts compare in terms of coverage; I hope it's helpfu= l! # Only in Courier New: =CB=89=D6=B0=D6=B1=D6=B2=D6=B3=D6=B4=D6=B5=D6=B6=D6=B7=D6=B8=D6=B9= =D6=BB=D6=BC=D6=BD=D6=BE=D6=BF=D7=80=D7=81=D7=82=D7=83=D7=90=D7=91=D7=92=D7= =93=D7=94=D7=95=D7=96=D7=97=D7=98=D7=99=D7=9A=D7=9B=D7=9C=D7=9D=D7=9E=D7=9F= =D7=A0=D7=A1=D7=A2=D7=A3=D7=A4=D7=A5=D7=A6=D7=A7=D7=A8=D7=A9=D7=AA=D7=B0=D7= =B1=D7=B2=D7=B3=D7=B4=D8=8C=D8=9B=D8=9F=D8=A1=D8=A2=D8=A3=D8=A4=D8=A5=D8=A6= =D8=A7=D8=A8=D8=A9=D8=AA=D8=AB=D8=AC=D8=AD=D8=AE=D8=AF=D8=B0=D8=B1=D8=B2=D8= =B3=D8=B4=D8=B5=D8=B6=D8=B7=D8=B8=D8=B9 =D8=BA=D9=80=D9=81=D9=82=D9=83=D9=84=D9=85=D9=86=D9=87=D9=88=D9=89= =D9=8A=D9=8B=D9=8C=D9=8D=D9=8E=D9=8F=D9=90=D9=91=D9=92=D9=A0=D9=A1=D9=A2=D9= =A3=D9=A4=D9=A5=D9=A6=D9=A7=D9=A8=D9=A9=D9=AA=D9=AB=D9=AD=D9=B0=D9=B1=D9=B4= =D9=BE=DA=86=DA=98=DA=A4=DA=A9=DA=AF=DB=8C=DB=95=DB=A4=DB=B4=DB=B5=DB=B6=E2= =80=B2=EE=A0=81=EE=A0=82=EE=A0=83=EE=A0=84=EE=A0=85=EE=A0=91=EE=A0=93=EE=A0= =95=EE=A0=96=EE=A0=97=EE=A0=98=EE=A0=B2=EE=A0=B3=EE=A0=B4=EE=A0=B5=EE=A0=B6= =EE=A0=B7=EE=A0=B8=EE=A0=B9=EE=A0=BA=EE=A0=BB=EF=80=81=EF=80=82=EF=80=84=EF= =80=85=EF=80=86=EF=80=87=EF=80=88=EF=80=89=EF=80=8F=EF=80=90 =EF=80=91=EF=80=92=EF=80=93=EF=80=94=EF=80=95=EF=80=96=EF=80=97=EF= =80=98=EF=80=99=EF=80=9A=EF=80=9B=EF=80=9C=EF=80=9D=EF=80=9E=EF=80=9F=EF=80= =A0=EF=80=A1=EF=80=A2=EF=80=A3=EF=80=A4=EF=80=A5=EF=80=A6=EF=80=A7=EF=80=A8= =EF=80=A9=EF=80=AA=EF=80=AB=EF=80=AC=EF=80=AD=EF=80=AE=EF=80=AF=EF=80=B0=EF= =AC=A0=EF=AC=AA=EF=AC=AB=EF=AC=AC=EF=AC=AD=EF=AC=AE=EF=AC=AF=EF=AC=B0=EF=AC= =B1=EF=AC=B2=EF=AC=B3=EF=AC=B4=EF=AC=B5=EF=AC=B6=EF=AC=B8=EF=AC=B9=EF=AC=BA= =EF=AC=BB=EF=AC=BC=EF=AC=BE=EF=AD=80=EF=AD=81=EF=AD=83=EF=AD=84=EF=AD=86=EF= =AD=87=EF=AD=88=EF=AD=89=EF=AD=8A=EF=AD=8B=EF=AD=8C=EF=AD=8D=EF=AD=8E=EF=AD= =8F=EF=AD=91=EF=AD=97=EF=AD=98=EF=AD=99=EF=AD=AB=EF=AD=AC=EF=AD=AD=EF=AD=BB= =EF=AD=BC=EF=AD=BD=EF=AE=8B=EF=AE=8F=EF=AE=90=EF=AE=91 =EF=AE=93=EF=AE=94=EF=AE=95=EF=AF=BD=EF=AF=BE=EF=AF=BF=EF=B0=88=EF= =B0=89=EF=B0=8E=EF=B0=92=EF=B0=B1=EF=B0=B2=EF=B0=BF=EF=B1=80=EF=B1=81=EF=B1= =82=EF=B1=83=EF=B1=84=EF=B1=8E=EF=B1=8F=EF=B1=98=EF=B1=99=EF=B1=9E=EF=B1=9F= =EF=B1=A0=EF=B1=A1=EF=B1=A2=EF=B1=AA=EF=B1=AD=EF=B1=AE=EF=B1=AF=EF=B1=B0=EF= =B1=B3=EF=B1=B4=EF=B1=B5=EF=B2=8E=EF=B2=8F=EF=B2=91=EF=B2=94=EF=B2=9C=EF=B2= =9D=EF=B2=9E=EF=B2=9F=EF=B2=A0=EF=B2=A1=EF=B2=A2=EF=B2=A3=EF=B2=A4=EF=B2=A5= =EF=B2=A6=EF=B2=A8=EF=B2=AA=EF=B2=AC=EF=B2=B0=EF=B3=89=EF=B3=8A=EF=B3=8B=EF= =B3=8C=EF=B3=8D=EF=B3=8E=EF=B3=8F=EF=B3=90=EF=B3=91=EF=B3=92=EF=B3=93=EF=B3= =94=EF=B3=95=EF=B3=98=EF=B3=9A=EF=B3=9B=EF=B3=9C=EF=B3=9D=EF=B4=B0=EF=B4=BC= =EF=B4=BD=EF=B4=BE=EF=B4=BF=EF=B6=88=EF=B7=B2=EF=BA=80 =EF=BA=82=EF=BA=84=EF=BA=86=EF=BA=88=EF=BA=8A=EF=BA=8B=EF=BA=8C=EF= =BA=8E=EF=BA=90=EF=BA=91=EF=BA=92=EF=BA=94=EF=BA=96=EF=BA=97=EF=BA=98=EF=BA= =9A=EF=BA=9B=EF=BA=9C=EF=BA=9E=EF=BA=9F=EF=BA=A0=EF=BA=A2=EF=BA=A3=EF=BA=A4= =EF=BA=A6=EF=BA=A7=EF=BA=A8=EF=BA=AA=EF=BA=AC=EF=BA=AE=EF=BA=B0=EF=BA=B2=EF= =BA=B3=EF=BA=B4=EF=BA=B6=EF=BA=B7=EF=BA=B8=EF=BA=BA=EF=BA=BB=EF=BA=BC=EF=BA= =BE=EF=BA=BF=EF=BB=80=EF=BB=82=EF=BB=83=EF=BB=84=EF=BB=86=EF=BB=87=EF=BB=88= =EF=BB=8A=EF=BB=8B=EF=BB=8C=EF=BB=8E=EF=BB=8F=EF=BB=90=EF=BB=92=EF=BB=93=EF= =BB=94=EF=BB=96=EF=BB=97=EF=BB=98=EF=BB=9A=EF=BB=9B=EF=BB=9C=EF=BB=9E=EF=BB= =9F=EF=BB=A0=EF=BB=A2=EF=BB=A3=EF=BB=A4=EF=BB=A6=EF=BB=A7=EF=BB=A8=EF=BB=AA= =EF=BB=AB=EF=BB=AC=EF=BB=AE=EF=BB=B0=EF=BB=B2=EF=BB=B5 =EF=BB=B6=EF=BB=B7=EF=BB=B8=EF=BB=B9=EF=BB=BA=EF=BB=BB=EF=BB=BC=EF= =BF=BC # Only in Consolas: =C6=80=C6=81=C6=82=C6=83=C6=84=C6=85=C6=86=C6=87=C6=88=C6=89=C6=8A= =C6=8B=C6=8C=C6=8D=C6=8E=C6=90=C6=91=C6=93=C6=94=C6=95=C6=96=C6=97=C6=98=C6= =99=C6=9A=C6=9B=C6=9C=C6=9D=C6=9E=C6=9F=C6=A2=C6=A3=C6=A4=C6=A5=C6=A6=C6=A7= =C6=A8=C6=A9=C6=AA=C6=AB=C6=AC=C6=AD=C6=AE=C6=B1=C6=B2=C6=B3=C6=B4=C6=B5=C6= =B6=C6=B7=C6=B8=C6=B9=C6=BA=C6=BB=C6=BC=C6=BD=C6=BE=C6=BF=C7=80=C7=81=C7=82= 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=AC=82=EF=B8=A0=EF=B8=A1=EF=B8=A2=EF=B8=A3 Cheers, Cl=C3=A9ment. --008nQ45DlxacwBQtsxamEtaAtevveDbhp-- --5QqATgV4a8PASMkPlH2PLjUvHJDkSBi5Q Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJX5YuXAAoJEPqg+cTm90wj1hUQAIGMh0fk9ZvcROXWA2bhFJQ1 BORxGZTJwdxWBDhaSYL/fYMhyVXt9oc6mRlezzzb2+kesC5mwhfr0WZhInUBdT7/ fs+eJoHfdukjihRHUe3tTswsNm+QLY2v1TVjp2+vA3TllQyms5eXvXEsjKwOQ2WM DwHasonji1aRoC2wjbeRKOmNxI9KiS0+8gi28B3ZACJGl+j4+VUJxjtZH+Tw6cU6 OOQZBEWqO1BAfnvJtiqRuhv1lElwNbWZ8zRHZyt3ZUsGHPQtzbEETNLHDJn+HITI 0rquWxLNCQlrxeS619/NKuEitv/STrpCR2hlTwoo4AfNHEeeKtjBjJfe1yjdMBfL Uq1h4GHDRWLKgMXfe9TWz8EQCbvif+CswvTfjs8plfPbbBCbuzSSqFDKzSJNyQVy PsT/G58vvEkvqnCEKBSpbmrhWyO+7r54Z6thAJOO9cEcGvy0RUV+d7MXWx/Qo72g EvxQOYJgjKsDwizPEVdyFxKshDXcDGnQORyOFEy2NRSFNZNAXnKZG9BSjbyWMXVK sGcraA+q7QM7iLcRw2JAzZ3wNR2AJ3HcP6iWU0UMr2aZIaWruhkrzWsfPw7Tl7e3 ptl8fYicjvE4gJTKmwHAZOIYUaasDcj5F/PUYTStc5ohMefBzotDaDz1+bj936lq ZLqT5630rfapkz1NvOQu =/rIO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --5QqATgV4a8PASMkPlH2PLjUvHJDkSBi5Q-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 23 17:47:28 2016 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Sep 2016 21:47:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33749 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnYJc-0004O9-1O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 17:47:28 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:18951) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnYJZ-0004Nv-Ua for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 17:47:26 -0400 Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u8NLlJLI022765 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2016 21:47:19 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u8NLlGnZ023773 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2016 21:47:16 GMT Received: from abhmp0006.oracle.com (abhmp0006.oracle.com [141.146.116.12]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u8NLlD0D007249; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 21:47:15 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3b1a716d-65e5-4eaa-912d-8d0471feb403@default> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2016 14:47:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <<<6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default>>> <<<83intneq2g.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<<7f9c8f95-a04d-4e94-9c17-8a348bf89215@default>>> <<<83d1jvds1t.fsf@gnu.org>>> <> <<83mviycxse.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83mviycxse.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-Spam-Score: -5.4 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.4 (-----) > > Why do you insist on saying things like "none of us, > > including yourself, have actually witnessed it?" >=20 > Because you yourself just said that the characters look > different to you. No. I said clearly that they can easily be mistaken for each other, even though it is true that they are not _exactly_ the same visually: See attached screenshot. No, they are not EXACTLY the same. But a user who is used to searching for ` (from the backquote key) in such a context can easily think that it IS the same character. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ S?he can easily either think (1) that the text s?he (thought s?he was) searching for is not present (e.g., if s?he does not see it) or (2) that Isearch is not working properly for some reason. And I said clearly, in the message before that one: They look slightly different, yes. Barely noticeable when ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ you see them side by side (see screenshot). Barely noticeable EVEN when you see them side by side. That was my judgment then, and I'm sticking to it now. But otherwise not noticeable enough that someone used to Emacs ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ < 25.1 would expect that the ` s?he types (as s?he always has, for this) does not result in the same character s?he sees as a name left delimiter. And I fell upon this bug by accident, when I tried to do what the bug recipe describes, with emacs -Q: search for "`list" in a topic where that text occurs, but with a left single quotation mark instead of `. It's a real report of a real experience, with emacs -Q. You keep trying to show that there is no problem by referring to the fact that I myself usually use Emacs with a different font. But this is not about me. It's about the default behavior of Emacs. I included the screenshot so that you and others can easily see for yourselves how much the two chars resemble each other. OK, so you disagree that they do. To you it is crystal clear that they are not the same, and you cannot imagine that anyone could see things differently. For you, I'm making this all up just to bother you, perhaps? Am I the only one who sees these characters as similar in appearance, and easy to mistake, one for the other? Dunno. But no one need take my word for the appearance, at least. The screenshot is there for anyone to check and come to their own conclusion. > > > Weren't you one of those who lobbied for turning the character-foldin= g > > > off by default? If it were not for that lobbying, your search would > > > have succeeded. > > > > No. And there was no such "lobbying", by anyone. Can you point > > to any post by me, in the long and deep discussion about this on > > emacs-devel ("On language-dependent defaults for character-folding") > > where I did that? >=20 > You just did it yourself, so I can rest my case. Is this really the way you try to reason, and discuss something? You apparently cannot show that I lobbied for turning char folding off by default, so you resort to claiming that I have argued that just now? Where? Are you perhaps watching too much Trump these days? In fact, I stated clearly in this thread that turning it on, at least for quotation, could be one of the possible fixes for this bug. My position on the default has been, from the beginning (in case you are really interested, though it is _irrelevant_ for this bug report), is that the default behavior is not very important. And that what is more important is that users (1) be able to easily customize the behavior, (2) be able to toggle it during isearch, and (3) be told about it in clear terms (especially if the default behavior represents a change), in both the doc and the NEWS. THAT was my point of view during the default discussion. And it has not changed. However, now that I have come across this usability bug, I think the bug should be fixed. But the default behavior is still less important that what I argued for. IF you choose to fix the bug by changing the default behavior for folding quotes, that will be better, I think, than not fixing it. I'm hoping that there might be a better fix available. I'm hoping that someone will come up with something good. But you've rejected the only other one I've come up with: change the default font, to avoid the similarity of appearance. > > And why would it be important if I had? Are you trying to > > mete out punishment, saying that it is my fault that Emacs > > now presents, by default, a visual confusion of single-quoting? >=20 > I'm saying that yours are double standards. Show us, please. What _are_ you talking about? Better yet, please address the bug, and not just attack the messenger. > > > The look quite different to me (my system uses the same font), > > > > You _know_ they are different. Please look again at the screenshot > > I sent, and imagine that it does not include the window showing the > > two right next to each other, so you see what a user sees when s?he > > searches for `. >=20 > I did. They still look different. OK. Clearly you have good eyes. But even with your good eyes you cannot see that someone (else) could easily mistake one for the other? Especially since s?he has long been able to search for quoted names using `? You can't see a problem here for others, even if you yourself have no such problem? > > > I'm not dismissing the problem. I'm saying that I don't see a > > > solution except through user customizations. Searching for similarly > > > looking characters is not specific to Info, it can happen elsewhere. > > > Users who bump into that frequently should customize their fonts > > > and/or turn on character-folding in search commands. > > > > That's not a solution for the default behavior, which is what > > this bug is about. If that is what you propose to solve the > > problem here then you are indeed dismissing the problem. >=20 > Customizations exist in Emacs for a reason. Saying that every problem > must be solved in "emacs -Q" is absurd, especially for minor problems > such as this one, with 2 characters that look differently. Another straw-man argument. Did someone argue that every problem must be solved in "emacs -Q"? No, of course not. > > Two possible solutions have been suggested in this thread, so far: > > > > 1) Emacs can try to avoid using Courier New as the default font. >=20 > Not an option. Other fonts have much less coverage, and most of them > are much uglier. You may wish looking at them before you suggest > this. I'm no expert on fonts. Are you speaking authoritatively, about ALL other fonts, when you say "other fonts"? I can't argue about coverage (I don't use RTL or many non-English characters, personally). And I won't try to argue about what is ugly or not. For English, I can offer the font I use as one that I find useful for MS Windows, FWIW: Lucida Console. I don't claim that it could or should be adopted by Emacs. Do we have a prioritized list of the important qualities of a default font for Emacs? How important is "coverage", and just what do we mean by it? How important is visual distinction/confusion of characters (including letters vs numbers)? Again, the default font is not the most important thing. It need not be perfect. But it can help or hinder understanding of Emacs, including by searching for information. > > 2. Isearch can fold "single-quote" chars (i.e., chars that could > > be confused in this regard), by default. >=20 > I'm okay with that, but my opinions on that were overruled. >=20 > > Please note, BTW, that I have _not_ opposed #2, just as I did > > _not_ "lobby for turning the character-folding off by default" > > during the general emacs-devel discussion. >=20 > Sure, you did. You just prefer to deny it now. See above. Including my citing #2, from the beginning, as one possible fix for this bug. And note your lack of finding any post by me where I lobbied to turn off folding by default. And I spent time looking through the thread, to see what people, including you and me, actually said there. Please put some evidence where your claims are. Or is it perhaps that you were alone in being _adamant_ about turning it on by default, so that even those who were on the fence about the default behavior have now been put on your enemies list and must be thoroughly castigated? > > What's not helpful is dismissing the problem or casting > > blame for it. >=20 > I agree. Do you realize that this is what you are doing? Uh, how so, Eli? Have I blamed you for this bug? No way. You, on the other hand _have_: * dismissed the problem, saying that there can be no difficulty distinguishing the characters. * blamed me for the default search behavior of not character-folding. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 03:27:45 2016 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2016 07:27:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33835 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnhNB-0001pn-5p for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 03:27:45 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:50776) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnhN8-0001pa-QJ for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 03:27:43 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnhMy-0003lg-Ix for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 03:27:37 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:33779) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnhMy-0003lT-FQ; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 03:27:32 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4716 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1bnhMx-000718-Lp; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 03:27:32 -0400 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 10:28:01 +0300 Message-Id: <83fuopdaf2.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: =?utf-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment?= Pit--Claudel In-reply-to: <8f6d6767-e5f4-79cc-ac3f-199cc58e92e2@gmail.com> (message from =?utf-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment?= Pit--Claudel on Fri, 23 Sep 2016 16:07:51 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <<6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <<83intneq2g.fsf@gnu.org> <<7f9c8f95-a04d-4e94-9c17-8a348bf89215@default> <<83d1jvds1t.fsf@gnu.org> <83mviycxse.fsf@gnu.org> <8f6d6767-e5f4-79cc-ac3f-199cc58e92e2@gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) > From: Clément Pit--Claudel > Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2016 16:07:51 -0400 > > >> > 1) Emacs can try to avoid using Courier New as the default font. > > > > Not an option. Other fonts have much less coverage, and most of them > > are much uglier. You may wish looking at them before you suggest > > this. > > Hi Eli, > > I have not used MS Windows much in a while, but one thing I missed after I switched to GNU/Linux was Microsoft's excellent Consolas font. It was first included with Windows XP, if I remember correctly. Do you think Emacs could try this one instead of Courier New by default? I think both Visual Studio and Atom use it by default on Windows. > > Here's how the two fonts compare in terms of coverage; I hope it's helpful! I hope, based on the coverage you presented, it should be clear that Consolas is worse than Courier New. Non-support of Arabic script is a non-starter these days. On my system, Consolas supports 16 Unicode blocks and 598 characters, while Courier New supports 29 blocks and 1258 characters, almost twice as many. Lucida Console suggested by Drew supports 22 blocks and 663 characters, which is also too few. (On Windows 8.1, the respective numbers are 38/2220, 41/3025, and 21/644 -- as you see, the numbers for Consolas are significantly larger, but the growth is mainly due to symbols and Latin extensions, it is still pretty much a Europe-centric font). In terms of coverage, the best fonts available on Windows are Arial MS Unicode, Cambria, and Times New Roman, but they are proportional fonts, whereas we need a monospaced font. (Cambria is also unavailable before Vista.) Symbola is my favorite as far as coverage goes (71 blocks and 7873 characters), but it is not installed by default on Windows systems. So I don't think we have a candidate font on Windows that is better than the current default. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 03:31:16 2016 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2016 07:31:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33839 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnhQa-0001wf-LV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 03:31:16 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:51395) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnhQZ-0001wT-Pl for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 03:31:16 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnhQQ-0005uT-Pl for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 03:31:10 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:33855) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnhQQ-0005uL-Mj; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 03:31:06 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4718 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1bnhQP-0003k9-QB; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 03:31:06 -0400 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 10:31:35 +0300 Message-Id: <83eg49da94.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: <3b1a716d-65e5-4eaa-912d-8d0471feb403@default> (message from Drew Adams on Fri, 23 Sep 2016 14:47:12 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <<<6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default>>> <<<83intneq2g.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<<7f9c8f95-a04d-4e94-9c17-8a348bf89215@default>>> <<<83d1jvds1t.fsf@gnu.org>>> <> <<83mviycxse.fsf@gnu.org>> <3b1a716d-65e5-4eaa-912d-8d0471feb403@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) > Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2016 14:47:12 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 24510@debbugs.gnu.org > > I'm no expert on fonts. Are you speaking authoritatively, > about ALL other fonts, when you say "other fonts"? At some point, I looked at all the fonts installed on a typical Windows machine. Whether that makes me an "authority" is not for me to say. > I can't argue about coverage (I don't use RTL or many > non-English characters, personally). And I won't try to > argue about what is ugly or not. For English, I can offer > the font I use as one that I find useful for MS Windows, > FWIW: Lucida Console. I don't claim that it could or > should be adopted by Emacs. See my other message: its coverage is too small. > Do we have a prioritized list of the important qualities > of a default font for Emacs? It should be a monospaced font, and it should cover as many Unicode blocks for as many scripts as possible. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 12:30:30 2016 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2016 16:30:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34656 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnpqM-0004v7-1Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 12:30:30 -0400 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.133]:56644) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnpqG-0004ur-ST for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 12:30:25 -0400 Received: from [18.189.53.55] ([18.189.53.55]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue004) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LwmVg-1aukFq2CO8-016QFO; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 18:30:14 +0200 Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` To: Eli Zaretskii References: <<6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <<83intneq2g.fsf@gnu.org> <<7f9c8f95-a04d-4e94-9c17-8a348bf89215@default> <<83d1jvds1t.fsf@gnu.org> <83mviycxse.fsf@gnu.org> <8f6d6767-e5f4-79cc-ac3f-199cc58e92e2@gmail.com> <83fuopdaf2.fsf@gnu.org> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= Message-ID: <0913a9f7-519f-e48a-3132-3d1b16267851@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 12:30:07 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <83fuopdaf2.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="aLq52TQ0XAVuwiTEoDXfP86HhSdIT5St9" X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:FVPYnPsc8R4+9d5eqkRA1fAl5XyhOzf0AmuCdz7CSSDI/w3og/M FuYrf/cqG5a7ibBS6MpxjHX+eGr74ZRSUVkcnj8tXnuzpcSrXCeLgUUzRLBPxkBTl1WiVeH xgmH38tnDgOhoUCVZP+6ifCCAavjr+DW7z3Y4lXxgTUccq7Bk0RnnKC9PUJD2S9Q3eK73XX KHDNyXfV0OPg8F+9b7ycw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:zY0+WWvuSV8=:yS6ixbSOal6LbJ0V9MbRvG ypsf1MZyaffN4C3DIvmhrC58jcpR9jIZqtwDsMJ9Fr5q4nZTL4v5OgIg22OAXIIElNGzNm1Vh g8beCL3Ooa4cxE8b03IISvZm8m0o+QSHJGVQ4F9n0MLbZeo4L7wOD6BIUZF/J3s/E8Qr5IVDR Xu40nj/2sJdUYUTilrQ/LYLtQDsgdKtaQp1kXGv8xxafBEQJ4/wBmiFcADUlh2ozpbaj7SOBk V7sNSfl3EWgLlrsbXSpCR5zvVsE0whGSw98D6sRDZR5pZq1vdSeKzvayZAN09O+W5ErrLoKYl FeL4yciW0KTe3rcNyJw7wTpPKDoI4uZ7QV39DwqA3rjL/MRtckQLic8eW0zBjTloCXWoQRP00 stGVF13XupdCoZQZm/LkaFnl2lL4KxY099phDj4FVX6FoX5kuJ45SRv94uylpkBTNddVrLgyZ Fca4UXHRp1ugj9T2IVCI9VHXZpgWT9dJQ8K517sQBwv+Gr4Coq0TX6+W3qMta0K/B/xgdJbUl +KJagTos5Ct0kbboUe49W2yweOTMKTNHqgzZLoflxmEcqvTuV3A4NRF+8LPTp4x6FXkt0Z7ds kIMbu4qbIqKGs7pgKrd/pCoPszmMtsQtt0dtIpsGTTchK6JxkmQR6GYVNpm6WLuFQLuFeb16P xm48XOdw642XORqiDOipg07J+0bxvdlDqQKcTmyBkKcUeqgBbhgO9XFEZONnv+hua400= X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On 2016-09-24 03:28, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > I hope, based on the coverage you presented, it should be clear that > Consolas is worse than Courier New. Non-support of Arabic script is > a non-starter these days. On my system, Consolas supports 16 > Unicode blocks and 598 characters, while Courier New supports 29 > blocks and 1258 characters, almost twice as many. 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The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On 2016-09-24 03:28, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > I hope, based on the coverage you presented, it should be clear that > Consolas is worse than Courier New. Non-support of Arabic script is > a non-starter these days. On my system, Consolas supports 16 > Unicode blocks and 598 characters, while Courier New supports 29 > blocks and 1258 characters, almost twice as many. [...] Content analysis details: (1.5 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2) [212.227.126.133 listed in wl.mailspike.net] -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [212.227.126.133 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.5 RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM RBL: SORBS: sender is a spam source [212.227.126.133 listed in dnsbl.sorbs.net] 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (clement.pit[at]gmail.com) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --aLq52TQ0XAVuwiTEoDXfP86HhSdIT5St9 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="tQOU3q186i6VVg5dDfjjMps81oADekK2S"; protected-headers="v1" From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 24510@debbugs.gnu.org Message-ID: <0913a9f7-519f-e48a-3132-3d1b16267851@gmail.com> Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <<6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <<83intneq2g.fsf@gnu.org> <<7f9c8f95-a04d-4e94-9c17-8a348bf89215@default> <<83d1jvds1t.fsf@gnu.org> <83mviycxse.fsf@gnu.org> <8f6d6767-e5f4-79cc-ac3f-199cc58e92e2@gmail.com> <83fuopdaf2.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83fuopdaf2.fsf@gnu.org> --tQOU3q186i6VVg5dDfjjMps81oADekK2S Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2016-09-24 03:28, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > I hope, based on the coverage you presented, it should be clear that=20 > Consolas is worse than Courier New. Non-support of Arabic script is > a non-starter these days. On my system, Consolas supports 16 > Unicode blocks and 598 characters, while Courier New supports 29 > blocks and 1258 characters, almost twice as many. > [=E2=80=A6] So I don't think we have a candidate font on Windows that i= s > better than the current default. Hi Eli, I'm not sure it makes sense to equate "better" and "worse" with more or l= ess coverage. Is Consolas worse than Courier New in terms of number of = characters supported? Certainly. But then why is Emacs not defaulting t= o MingLiu or NSimSun? They are both monospace, both available in recent = releases of Microsoft Windows, and they both cover multiple East-Asian sc= ripts, (Courier New doesn't). On my system, MingLiu supports 28955 glyph= s; over 23 times as many as Courier New. Do we have evidence that users of Emacs on Windows write significant amou= nts of code in Arabic, to the point that we would want to use Courier New= as the default, instead of as a fallback? If so, do we have evidence th= at more code is written in Emacs in Arabic than in Chinese and Japanese? = And finally, do we have evidence that users of scripts that Consolas doe= s not support prefer having Courier New as the default, rather than Conso= las with a fallback to Courier New, or MingLiu? I'm not too familiar with editors on Windows. Do many of them default to= Courier New? AFAICT Netbeans apparently does, but Atom doesn't (it uses= Consolas), Visual Studio doesn't (it uses Consolas), Sublime Text doesn'= t (it uses Consolas), Eclipse doesn't (it changed from Courier New to Con= solas in 2011), and Notepad++ doesn't (it changed from Courier New to Sou= rce Code Pro in 2015). What makes things that are acceptable for so many= other editors non-starters for us? Cheers, Cl=C3=A9ment.=20 --tQOU3q186i6VVg5dDfjjMps81oADekK2S-- --aLq52TQ0XAVuwiTEoDXfP86HhSdIT5St9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJX5qoUAAoJEPqg+cTm90wjzq8P+gK255Vpd2a+nALxljgU4bYM zfR71XAjSy3OqUuL8Gl95Qj1IuthEBI3k2uwVDFwefojzuxYb+hHGqP3xGSFhU9L 0dL4vixQoYsdM9gslKpzglTvRQiIV3qxci8nla8HoxuBSABT5dTjH3ihZHYTOlRY 8AAL0L76jd2bxD5OluiSW+DgOORWkYGaQ1qSnewn1eC4SvIQIYRcY9KSLSju9D6j 56VqqdNGWggEHdrHD1q6BY/NOZ505nMzTaFkRzpwDtG6Uf9513vWsS075Wt66Zqw S+n4sh/RiSkP+SyQDGouOwH1yiMmtuws1mHNW3ZIlEHnuwjzU7mwiRdkv0yfLzZT Yqw7jyelLfC9ycqquNDVZ840hdwCYeo+g9vrZtjjaZafy25f3UmtqcaB21vCuTuz o0tZHGnLiTvQFztXcYxWGDE90dxK4TjDimo2QrQL3DJDI5EkoCkXp7UxhXigkshX DS1ZksM/IRHs/UfUeE74kuhxdLtkw6yEwJ8uAUhH7fNt2quVk047mt6cR+MhB4Kw 9cO6ntRa6BYrlpoiti2j9fjGtOlePsV4baUEvmM/0dTKdvEk+1+qNIweGx9tTtVk kvwdBtM2apBqlTzs1ZwjjF+AulwfWsdKM8N7kYkGTXLigJzcchVUt7pHwLAt5DKf eKwH/JwmVxqkMO3wOSbj =Ra5+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --aLq52TQ0XAVuwiTEoDXfP86HhSdIT5St9-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 13:08:46 2016 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2016 17:08:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34692 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnqRS-0005pN-Mn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 13:08:46 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39923) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnqRR-0005p9-6d for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 13:08:45 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnqRI-0007Vs-Tz for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 13:08:40 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:40821) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnqRI-0007Vk-QV; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 13:08:36 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2043 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1bnqRF-0008Vk-01; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 13:08:35 -0400 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 20:08:44 +0300 Message-Id: <83twd5b4yr.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: =?utf-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment?= Pit--Claudel In-reply-to: <0913a9f7-519f-e48a-3132-3d1b16267851@gmail.com> (message from =?utf-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment?= Pit--Claudel on Sat, 24 Sep 2016 12:30:07 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <<6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <<83intneq2g.fsf@gnu.org> <<7f9c8f95-a04d-4e94-9c17-8a348bf89215@default> <<83d1jvds1t.fsf@gnu.org> <83mviycxse.fsf@gnu.org> <8f6d6767-e5f4-79cc-ac3f-199cc58e92e2@gmail.com> <83fuopdaf2.fsf@gnu.org> <0913a9f7-519f-e48a-3132-3d1b16267851@gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) > Cc: 24510@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Clément Pit--Claudel > Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 12:30:07 -0400 > > I'm not sure it makes sense to equate "better" and "worse" with more or less coverage. Is Consolas worse than Courier New in terms of number of characters supported? Certainly. But then why is Emacs not defaulting to MingLiu or NSimSun? They are both monospace, both available in recent releases of Microsoft Windows, and they both cover multiple East-Asian scripts, (Courier New doesn't). On my system, MingLiu supports 28955 glyphs; over 23 times as many as Courier New. Not just the number of characters matters: the number of Unicode blocks also matters, maybe even more. Each block is some script, so supporting less blocks means less scripts supported by the default font. Emacs will have then look for a different font, which makes less pleasant display, creates text alignment problems, etc. > Do we have evidence that users of Emacs on Windows write significant amounts of code in Arabic, to the point that we would want to use Courier New as the default, instead of as a fallback? If so, do we have evidence that more code is written in Emacs in Arabic than in Chinese and Japanese? And finally, do we have evidence that users of scripts that Consolas does not support prefer having Courier New as the default, rather than Consolas with a fallback to Courier New, or MingLiu? I'm not sure I understand where these questions go. We don't have evidence either way, so the issues you raise cannot help us make the decision. I personally consider Consolas worse than Courier New, because Consolas's coverage is clearly biased towards European scripts. Also, Emacs has used Courier New for a couple of decades, so changing that would need a good reason, not some vague doubts that we cannot resolve based on data. > I'm not too familiar with editors on Windows. Do many of them default to Courier New? AFAICT Netbeans apparently does, but Atom doesn't (it uses Consolas), Visual Studio doesn't (it uses Consolas), Sublime Text doesn't (it uses Consolas), Eclipse doesn't (it changed from Courier New to Consolas in 2011), and Notepad++ doesn't (it changed from Courier New to Source Code Pro in 2015). What makes things that are acceptable for so many other editors non-starters for us? One reason is that Emacs has a wider range of different applications, where being able to support as many languages and scripts as possible is more important than in Studio or even Vim. E.g., at least some of the editors you mention are never used as email/news clients or Web browsers, where the ability to support as many scripts as possible is important. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 13:25:05 2016 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2016 17:25:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34702 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnqhF-0006Dr-FA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 13:25:05 -0400 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.133]:65522) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnqhD-0006DJ-3p for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 13:25:03 -0400 Received: from [18.189.53.55] ([18.189.53.55]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue005) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LhzVu-1b9Vf82vWU-00nDci; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 19:24:56 +0200 Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` To: Eli Zaretskii References: <<6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <<83intneq2g.fsf@gnu.org> <<7f9c8f95-a04d-4e94-9c17-8a348bf89215@default> <<83d1jvds1t.fsf@gnu.org> <83mviycxse.fsf@gnu.org> <8f6d6767-e5f4-79cc-ac3f-199cc58e92e2@gmail.com> <83fuopdaf2.fsf@gnu.org> <0913a9f7-519f-e48a-3132-3d1b16267851@gmail.com> <83twd5b4yr.fsf@gnu.org> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 13:24:50 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <83twd5b4yr.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="k754GnbUxcM064qPpu9eIOsAgvuajbTrQ" X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:ibQdUtt4YNyL1zeX8brPvDi0bxkwdlt3KCIW5tpFKhjEhmnSHME 1E3rMmU6i4ZbpVUb/ZAqe7I3cc38L/jsVcgmb0dT67yw/jZHIJqfsTQWaSNWeI5+UG4Sgx3 seJqAOZvjERYlVx4Qd1eu0FdkTQOZm43fFcMI8uwXU4tQz8LcrNlI5CmzguDL1USYAGH5FB XYWTAKwp+hdRopjcAcBsg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:+5SFcRvanrE=:xY5c0r+wKlJAn47II3qRmg Eje9CVRkOPJav6eDhL5MfR3Xmr+qYR2/VRoANwt8DKbY4Kj70rvPMVYMFusCtaZQrrF0pqxGx lqxB0ocmXRJq0Vqm5q2H04U9gcHw1ZBrS1UI8OL18tWLs+PV6p6cHxPiV8dxANSxQ5eRUk/oF ReKcOSfVWK8THalgV4u5emkQcDwlZaQig7cqRntF9APgj5uxnzNBx0FBDs9cMqAkIKnPJ5miu ymO/5CCUa83evXoG+oHZHoj/DWeKPGCTd8+g7CFirlZZBdJIf3q7qXI9MhN+2nAQDrrDm7n+R mWFJ5ebyIiE6FDhdXTExYneS5R3MUkjTTlLGiYsOR/6CNcE0bwF25xMAXgBZPP9+5DIQNMGvV j6S6bUyYQ1MRHwz/hKhcnK8kNY/8noeIhVCJlsEtgNER11gOLMPUdK5MXV8j2w/iCRwMI4Sbj r6eCsfVCBeeEdq3KTVDQbMFzXEw4s1yfM9Kg4qVwTMLXZDiAl8MnPjsM/qDIKue22G7DUKfUS xV4hSXyFY29dKvwvwRQ+4Vu0QAuk3kY/4ZtKqOFepm5+TezMJglZsiIpRXXCXKFUqoKFiSczP 1qhMhs6mOpb/sRDr6qmTfKtEy9gVzH70GkOn/LF+cyfbDsa6nMBWi8ecuRPdK2gYGpVh3RiHf u/3UfjiqFpBroPK/G6asvLSZb/pF/N5kWBKSdLhArgtVmP50x9uB3wuRmA30lkAIP6oo= X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On 2016-09-24 13:08, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Cc: Clément Pit--Claudel >> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 12:30:07 -0400 >> >> I'm not sure it makes sense to equate "better" and "worse" with >> more or less coverage. Is Consolas worse than Courier New in >> terms of number of characters supported? Certainly. But then why >> is Emacs not defaulting to MingLiu or NSimSun? They are both >> monospace, both available in recent releases of Microsoft Windows, >> and they both cover multiple East-Asian scripts, (Courier New >> doesn't). On my system, MingLiu supports 28955 glyphs; over 23 >> times as many as Courier New. > > Not just the number of characters matters: the number of Unicode > blocks also matters, maybe even more. Each block is some script, so > supporting less blocks means less scripts supported by the default > font. Emacs will have then look for a different font, which makes > less pleasant display, creates text alignment problems, etc. [...] Content analysis details: (1.5 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [212.227.126.133 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.5 RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM RBL: SORBS: sender is a spam source [212.227.126.133 listed in dnsbl.sorbs.net] -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2) [212.227.126.133 listed in wl.mailspike.net] 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (clement.pit[at]gmail.com) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On 2016-09-24 13:08, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Cc: Clément Pit--Claudel >> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 12:30:07 -0400 >> >> I'm not sure it makes sense to equate "better" and "worse" with >> more or less coverage. Is Consolas worse than Courier New in >> terms of number of characters supported? Certainly. But then why >> is Emacs not defaulting to MingLiu or NSimSun? They are both >> monospace, both available in recent releases of Microsoft Windows, >> and they both cover multiple East-Asian scripts, (Courier New >> doesn't). On my system, MingLiu supports 28955 glyphs; over 23 >> times as many as Courier New. > > Not just the number of characters matters: the number of Unicode > blocks also matters, maybe even more. Each block is some script, so > supporting less blocks means less scripts supported by the default > font. Emacs will have then look for a different font, which makes > less pleasant display, creates text alignment problems, etc. [...] Content analysis details: (1.5 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2) [212.227.126.133 listed in wl.mailspike.net] -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [212.227.126.133 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.5 RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM RBL: SORBS: sender is a spam source [212.227.126.133 listed in dnsbl.sorbs.net] 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (clement.pit[at]gmail.com) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --k754GnbUxcM064qPpu9eIOsAgvuajbTrQ Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="mu52rhBvBEhVxXLUcsEWCBQmaiXoEppbA"; protected-headers="v1" From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 24510@debbugs.gnu.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <<6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <<83intneq2g.fsf@gnu.org> <<7f9c8f95-a04d-4e94-9c17-8a348bf89215@default> <<83d1jvds1t.fsf@gnu.org> <83mviycxse.fsf@gnu.org> <8f6d6767-e5f4-79cc-ac3f-199cc58e92e2@gmail.com> <83fuopdaf2.fsf@gnu.org> <0913a9f7-519f-e48a-3132-3d1b16267851@gmail.com> <83twd5b4yr.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83twd5b4yr.fsf@gnu.org> --mu52rhBvBEhVxXLUcsEWCBQmaiXoEppbA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2016-09-24 13:08, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Cc: 24510@debbugs.gnu.org From: Cl=C3=A9ment Pit--Claudel >> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 12:30:07 -0400 >>=20 >> I'm not sure it makes sense to equate "better" and "worse" with >> more or less coverage. Is Consolas worse than Courier New in >> terms of number of characters supported? Certainly. But then why >> is Emacs not defaulting to MingLiu or NSimSun? They are both >> monospace, both available in recent releases of Microsoft Windows, >> and they both cover multiple East-Asian scripts, (Courier New >> doesn't). On my system, MingLiu supports 28955 glyphs; over 23 >> times as many as Courier New. >=20 > Not just the number of characters matters: the number of Unicode=20 > blocks also matters, maybe even more. Each block is some script, so=20 > supporting less blocks means less scripts supported by the default=20 > font. Emacs will have then look for a different font, which makes=20 > less pleasant display, creates text alignment problems, etc. Thanks for the explanation. But MingLiu supports 34 blocks, while Courier= New supports 23. In particular, MingLiu has support for traditional Chi= nese and Japanese Hiragana and Katakana, which Courier New lacks. >> Do we have evidence that users of Emacs on Windows write >> significant amounts of code in Arabic, to the point that we would >> want to use Courier New as the default, instead of as a fallback? >> If so, do we have evidence that more code is written in Emacs in >> Arabic than in Chinese and Japanese? And finally, do we have >> evidence that users of scripts that Consolas does not support >> prefer having Courier New as the default, rather than Consolas with >> a fallback to Courier New, or MingLiu? >=20 > I'm not sure I understand where these questions go. We don't have=20 > evidence either way, so the issues you raise cannot help us make the=20 > decision. The question was whether we had evidence in one way, and you answered it;= thanks! I don't know about either way, though: we do have evidence that many othe= r editors don't do the same thing as we do. > I personally consider Consolas worse than Courier New, because=20 > Consolas's coverage is clearly biased towards European scripts. True. But Courier is biased too. In fact, virtually all programming fon= ts are biased in that way, maybe as an unfortunate artifact of most progr= amming languages themselves being biased towards ASCII. In selecting the= default Emacs font, we're trying to ensure that users have an agreeable = experience: if most of what they look at in a monospace font is covered b= y ASCII, then it's not clear to me that it makes sense to select a monosp= ace font based on coverage only. >> I'm not too familiar with editors on Windows. Do many of them >> default to Courier New? AFAICT Netbeans apparently does, but Atom >> doesn't (it uses Consolas), Visual Studio doesn't (it uses >> Consolas), Sublime Text doesn't (it uses Consolas), Eclipse doesn't >> (it changed from Courier New to Consolas in 2011), and Notepad++ >> doesn't (it changed from Courier New to Source Code Pro in 2015). >> What makes things that are acceptable for so many other editors >> non-starters for us? >=20 > One reason is that Emacs has a wider range of different > applications, where being able to support as many languages and > scripts as possible is more important than in Studio or even Vim. > E.g., at least some of the editors you mention are never used as > email/news clients or Web browsers, where the ability to support as > many scripts as possible is important. Do many of these applications require a monospace font? Eww now defaults= to a proportional face, doesn't it? Cl=C3=A9ment. --mu52rhBvBEhVxXLUcsEWCBQmaiXoEppbA-- --k754GnbUxcM064qPpu9eIOsAgvuajbTrQ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJX5rbiAAoJEPqg+cTm90wjYj0P/3Z4fcDH2ItJ7BM4I5yIOrTm yO5VXYSSLAmsnu4v91GwGRt90Pa0IQ8tMGCdNsTSvC1kRL3fI4H0kgtvOwfUUYGr lMEvsiPsdPFHpOtBEft8goprAGioVXZ7iSDvAR5DbZVqAdBNpjra3Ij2zUJiOUab ChwrLCXIb1Kl7+A4Av9/7CKYkDbsoUQfYZ33Lt9NmswujcCCa3lJ974rQyLHittN Ub19NCJYBOP2OfdJsJM3I5kRlzVmO1DSYWCyuYzZfbJp144X+Rm/xaXBMWzfgarv +UAQhfAHkTzHTp3fjDSsLFfqV6gohixZ0B7cDCkctd95jxcOPe8HdP/hcBV4R0Pe bJbJ4OpOlbgcbqunj8hqhZgDkincm5jvJKLB4NsfOqJ30lJSy4pB4vZrK5s7wJpe Fc//ll9+Ko0Owp7OaLPuIvPuaGrhMhs+fxqkGC54us7H3ldoUEH0dS1A+sOrv3q/ 5TxAeNehQOjLlhX69uJjt687PJ1CwM1pxtsFTfsM2EI7m79qqIviA7sO9EJB206p kIccb3CPMOpmzCvrxTVhRsaXKVupFe3PnU47EP6Y//qDToLm7zJSnqAyi3dO6A+Z BlnKxU+OI2eNvvr4YEItPQXJaDbvF0S61y/Tff2gpQr5Ez4sCVBGz1AElRIfmMhR 1A8us38xPV7J+yGep78M =cvKv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --k754GnbUxcM064qPpu9eIOsAgvuajbTrQ-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 13:58:00 2016 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2016 17:58:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34741 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnrD5-00070w-NZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 13:57:59 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:49271) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnrD4-00070i-BH for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 13:57:58 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnrCv-0006wW-8z for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 13:57:53 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:41360) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnrCv-0006vh-5b; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 13:57:49 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2083 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1bnrCr-00039O-AV; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 13:57:47 -0400 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 20:57:39 +0300 Message-Id: <83pontb2p8.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: =?utf-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment?= Pit--Claudel In-reply-to: (message from =?utf-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment?= Pit--Claudel on Sat, 24 Sep 2016 13:24:50 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <<6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <<83intneq2g.fsf@gnu.org> <<7f9c8f95-a04d-4e94-9c17-8a348bf89215@default> <<83d1jvds1t.fsf@gnu.org> <83mviycxse.fsf@gnu.org> <8f6d6767-e5f4-79cc-ac3f-199cc58e92e2@gmail.com> <83fuopdaf2.fsf@gnu.org> <0913a9f7-519f-e48a-3132-3d1b16267851@gmail.com> <83twd5b4yr.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) > Cc: 24510@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Clément Pit--Claudel > Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 13:24:50 -0400 > > > Not just the number of characters matters: the number of Unicode > > blocks also matters, maybe even more. Each block is some script, so > > supporting less blocks means less scripts supported by the default > > font. Emacs will have then look for a different font, which makes > > less pleasant display, creates text alignment problems, etc. > > Thanks for the explanation. But MingLiu supports 34 blocks, while Courier New supports 23. In particular, MingLiu has support for traditional Chinese and Japanese Hiragana and Katakana, which Courier New lacks. Out of 34 blocks MingLiu supports, one third is CJK blocks. The other blocks support Latin and Greek scripts, and that's about all. We don't use Courier New for CJK anyway, as it doesn't cover those well. But neither does Consolas, and I find it hard to believe you are saying that we should switch from Courier New to MingLiu as the default font: that'd be absurd. > > I personally consider Consolas worse than Courier New, because > > Consolas's coverage is clearly biased towards European scripts. > > True. But Courier is biased too. It's less biased, though. > In fact, virtually all programming fonts are biased in that way, maybe as an unfortunate artifact of most programming languages themselves being biased towards ASCII. In selecting the default Emacs font, we're trying to ensure that users have an agreeable experience: if most of what they look at in a monospace font is covered by ASCII, then it's not clear to me that it makes sense to select a monospace font based on coverage only. Emacs supports non-programming applications as well, not just programming modes. In fact, the trigger for this discussion was Info, a non-programming mode very close to Text mode. > > One reason is that Emacs has a wider range of different > > applications, where being able to support as many languages and > > scripts as possible is more important than in Studio or even Vim. > > E.g., at least some of the editors you mention are never used as > > email/news clients or Web browsers, where the ability to support as > > many scripts as possible is important. > > Do many of these applications require a monospace font? We use a monospaced font for the default face because it suits well both programming and non-programming modes, and because aligning text is much easier with such a font. Text alignment is important in modes that present summaries in tabular form, like modes that show listing of buffers, email summaries, Dired, Proced, etc. > Eww now defaults to a proportional face, doesn't it? By default, yes; but there's "M-x eww-toggle-fonts". From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 14:14:51 2016 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2016 18:14:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34745 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnrTP-0007PJ-7t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 14:14:51 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:51498) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnrTN-0007P6-PR for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 14:14:50 -0400 Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u8OIEgoo018776 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2016 18:14:43 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u8OIEfSC023109 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2016 18:14:42 GMT Received: from abhmp0008.oracle.com (abhmp0008.oracle.com [141.146.116.14]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u8OIEbME025885; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 18:14:40 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <73e0d048-ef14-4bb9-9a5f-112af466f1e4@default> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 11:14:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: =?utf-8?B?Q2zDqW1lbnQgUGl0LS1DbGF1ZGVs?= , Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <<6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <<83intneq2g.fsf@gnu.org> <<7f9c8f95-a04d-4e94-9c17-8a348bf89215@default> <<83d1jvds1t.fsf@gnu.org> <83mviycxse.fsf@gnu.org> <8f6d6767-e5f4-79cc-ac3f-199cc58e92e2@gmail.com> <83fuopdaf2.fsf@gnu.org> <0913a9f7-519f-e48a-3132-3d1b16267851@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <0913a9f7-519f-e48a-3132-3d1b16267851@gmail.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-Spam-Score: -5.4 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.4 (-----) > I'm not too familiar with editors on Windows. Do many of them > default to Courier New? I too am not very familiar with other editors on MS Windows. I can mention that TextPad (the only other editor I sometimes use on Windows) seems to default to Courier New. (But it also handles multiple languages differently, I believe.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 14:15:15 2016 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2016 18:15:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34749 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnrTn-0007Qf-Dn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 14:15:15 -0400 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([217.72.192.73]:53043) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnrTl-0007QQ-Pb for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 14:15:14 -0400 Received: from [18.189.53.55] ([18.189.53.55]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue103) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MOU8z-1brSW73mE9-005mqa; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 20:15:07 +0200 Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` To: Eli Zaretskii References: <<6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <<83intneq2g.fsf@gnu.org> <<7f9c8f95-a04d-4e94-9c17-8a348bf89215@default> <<83d1jvds1t.fsf@gnu.org> <83mviycxse.fsf@gnu.org> <8f6d6767-e5f4-79cc-ac3f-199cc58e92e2@gmail.com> <83fuopdaf2.fsf@gnu.org> <0913a9f7-519f-e48a-3132-3d1b16267851@gmail.com> <83twd5b4yr.fsf@gnu.org> <83pontb2p8.fsf@gnu.org> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= Message-ID: <76676126-f9f5-b651-bcb1-bf80a868f990@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 14:14:52 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <83pontb2p8.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="TjBXKgvtrVvNATb1WUkm1tuaw2CwTr2dV" X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:TYsJs1mNGSXZvES34rMW4uV98pNDJuKbN38mmLZVQhHaQIMVUnJ 2uvpC4/6MULci4pFsfrTL/eTDCKGGjx7pKPw2U+Xnsr6TovEVzBl0H7MvDeCHZUL77+EVnD YktsoXcfxgMs2N4m5tpZhk2CCV0oDj5s+lniJsi1tVyO8YFrPgS1UikXQ5wD6e0sRKGOqKw 2K/VQ5hPsudveVfJ9oPDw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:XlnysE4F0L8=:bFYX8iLyHhIM6irX9NdR5L 5uuEiN+kwDRntiOjDrY/0GCS1wrB2BMG+FGMKrUutzNdu5mFTPOSOGDuRlSifeuKcvf02N3GP lTGRDrUA/zEiH+neZu1sOBFVy+ISNVcaezmaecRN2Es3bbQmVJY/xnPX1Qmvoe6k2p7YsSVxT LUyAwhrkAuI7c47TwkUzoQ1+CktVDsqhIzleZDKuWIi0wxinoykN2sWpzNHqhcGiE5Lk3zSbT FUBoUUB8uL8nr9oh2Ca8wsx1HlLaWH1fjyJJmyMgM52bU1mvE3gygJY+JWQ6uBgRU3o+3SaGR BL4tLnayYe70jYfMq4buYfrwlAKCFdbq1JpgwJuXXQK8P+CoOxV+bZtVVHR1nrCEqLoMUdxGQ xtrmXKRWnUwaTUiWAhpUz3hJS6UIZCpmY4/ZlVLaIezaaTrD4I/sKcgWZ3h3saJpxhqndVD/4 c4el/eNCoDbHgxU8hJs52JVZQyN0so9moekBYALVvmuiAzJvGKT8DngwwYMT+D/KEWrJj9tfQ v46fpS2xHkOsNjC1/wQhMTAQJCq0CuM6RvNpIY18qDDDOniFb2wb4szfXti6ogW4eDhKbkiNN kMTZQilG5DgjqlJyRMS03NHp3PDbUxnYlvS7JMNZhwlz+yJO4oO8XDBAtDaC29TMRZ5Wk/ldG aQ45RfguZfMF4qdWKiv29IS8DKwWP6F1sXcKcLh/ti6YqJOeR7LjepS1nYXE1jQjw9Ok= X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --TjBXKgvtrVvNATb1WUkm1tuaw2CwTr2dV Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="hiNWoLkE8DClwtxOuGhc4P68I2VDLLtH3"; protected-headers="v1" From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 24510@debbugs.gnu.org Message-ID: <76676126-f9f5-b651-bcb1-bf80a868f990@gmail.com> Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <<6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <<83intneq2g.fsf@gnu.org> <<7f9c8f95-a04d-4e94-9c17-8a348bf89215@default> <<83d1jvds1t.fsf@gnu.org> <83mviycxse.fsf@gnu.org> <8f6d6767-e5f4-79cc-ac3f-199cc58e92e2@gmail.com> <83fuopdaf2.fsf@gnu.org> <0913a9f7-519f-e48a-3132-3d1b16267851@gmail.com> <83twd5b4yr.fsf@gnu.org> <83pontb2p8.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83pontb2p8.fsf@gnu.org> --hiNWoLkE8DClwtxOuGhc4P68I2VDLLtH3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2016-09-24 13:57, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > I find it hard to believe you > are saying that we should switch from Courier New to MingLiu as the > default font: that'd be absurd. It doesn't feel more more absurd than using Courier New in the first plac= e, frankly. But sorry for diverting the thread. I don't use Emacs on Wi= ndows, so I don't really care about good defaults there. > Emacs supports non-programming applications as well, not just > programming modes. In fact, the trigger for this discussion was Info, > a non-programming mode very close to Text mode. Why does info use a monospace font? >>> One reason is that Emacs has a wider range of different >>> applications, where being able to support as many languages and >>> scripts as possible is more important than in Studio or even Vim. >>> E.g., at least some of the editors you mention are never used as >>> email/news clients or Web browsers, where the ability to support as >>> many scripts as possible is important. >> >> Do many of these applications require a monospace font? >=20 > We use a monospaced font for the default face because it suits well > both programming and non-programming modes, and because aligning text > is much easier with such a font. Text alignment is important in modes > that present summaries in tabular form, like modes that show listing > of buffers, email summaries, Dired, Proced, etc. Doesn't we the special 'space' display property make it possible to prope= rly align variable-width fonts? --hiNWoLkE8DClwtxOuGhc4P68I2VDLLtH3-- --TjBXKgvtrVvNATb1WUkm1tuaw2CwTr2dV Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJX5sKpAAoJEPqg+cTm90wjl/EP/3sxIJH0VQ4ea4cBzQNv8cOZ HH7/o+x2iboB5dTHFaVqfbNICXrI0kqMNmEzN0sgHfU5gTffoWfyeYU05lAq21xC uSURylvgrcfRGVjwEFEKk/s5UEETDEp+YYPtwAOc5M0sZxiu1AMm6Nj0fQKNkG1a W0BVxCHG5lz27pd8lqyPL0e5q9tNldwjt4TtozlJ5Keg3iOrGPqTYe4FUKBtSic9 LFf8o0zFdKXf9j4ylA9g7mmYO5nf4O47+ioYOjYQ7n/eQBrZhVCSLi3mbtJAGznC BR9PvnHq8gGyAkzm7nlQDgkfsCPczQfIVsVqPIefzRB189R46qPSBv1ZgnHZvKOm wWVm1AeDWUdb9b0R4qLYRjm5dKOoQ3Ly2qtiIwTuMze9aYRG0r0kRbPw3HrONiqf 5EqBMau1wu6Sxv1rM1FhPs1bqxc1NGMKEfY4h+JOPVtm7USnYpG3STqG1gAFOoMe Tt8nFj65MpT3oOLf1ZOVvdX+QGL85bh6w2PJp0lFZ13rDBh8r/1zSvWq3ObM3s2L sitHLGir4yag0glUAN2Q1s0/KgitZFrQQrZEItBVQ0rgrpZ3/ZXLSZLz/rilno9m SanUw3IsgOkNKn9DMiZkXXoiE8ChBz0AilYGIvWjm3Lpi/wqpCodxBOmViKVeZr0 dnC/xqhZvnpRMyxzI7v+ =RmQo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --TjBXKgvtrVvNATb1WUkm1tuaw2CwTr2dV-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 14:34:03 2016 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2016 18:34:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34767 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnrly-0007tO-PE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 14:34:02 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:55231) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnrlv-0007sr-N7 for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 14:34:00 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnrll-0003OB-Ut for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 14:33:54 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:41766) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnrll-0003O7-Rh; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 14:33:49 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2116 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1bnrlj-0005re-0C; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 14:33:49 -0400 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 21:34:02 +0300 Message-Id: <83mvixb10l.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: =?utf-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment?= Pit--Claudel In-reply-to: <76676126-f9f5-b651-bcb1-bf80a868f990@gmail.com> (message from =?utf-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment?= Pit--Claudel on Sat, 24 Sep 2016 14:14:52 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <<6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <<83intneq2g.fsf@gnu.org> <<7f9c8f95-a04d-4e94-9c17-8a348bf89215@default> <<83d1jvds1t.fsf@gnu.org> <83mviycxse.fsf@gnu.org> <8f6d6767-e5f4-79cc-ac3f-199cc58e92e2@gmail.com> <83fuopdaf2.fsf@gnu.org> <0913a9f7-519f-e48a-3132-3d1b16267851@gmail.com> <83twd5b4yr.fsf@gnu.org> <83pontb2p8.fsf@gnu.org> <76676126-f9f5-b651-bcb1-bf80a868f990@gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) > Cc: 24510@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Clément Pit--Claudel > Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 14:14:52 -0400 > > On 2016-09-24 13:57, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > I find it hard to believe you > > are saying that we should switch from Courier New to MingLiu as the > > default font: that'd be absurd. > > It doesn't feel more more absurd than using Courier New in the first place, frankly. It does to me. > > Emacs supports non-programming applications as well, not just > > programming modes. In fact, the trigger for this discussion was Info, > > a non-programming mode very close to Text mode. > > Why does info use a monospace font? Because Texinfo produces filled text on the assumption that it will be displayed with monospaced font. The Info format was invented for text-mode readers, and it uses hard newlines where the line should be broken. This doesn't work well with variable-pitch fonts. > > We use a monospaced font for the default face because it suits well > > both programming and non-programming modes, and because aligning text > > is much easier with such a font. Text alignment is important in modes > > that present summaries in tabular form, like modes that show listing > > of buffers, email summaries, Dired, Proced, etc. > > Doesn't we the special 'space' display property make it possible to properly align variable-width fonts? Of course, it does. But most Lisp applications don't bother doing that, even though the facility is available since Emacs 21. Counting columns is so much easier. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 14:41:09 2016 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2016 18:41:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34791 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnrsr-00084b-Ax for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 14:41:09 -0400 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.17.10]:51958) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnrsq-00084O-0m for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 14:41:08 -0400 Received: from [18.189.53.55] ([18.189.53.55]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue104) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MYeLS-1bRIwZ0gFe-00VPnR; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 20:41:01 +0200 Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` To: Eli Zaretskii References: <<6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <<83intneq2g.fsf@gnu.org> <<7f9c8f95-a04d-4e94-9c17-8a348bf89215@default> <<83d1jvds1t.fsf@gnu.org> <83mviycxse.fsf@gnu.org> <8f6d6767-e5f4-79cc-ac3f-199cc58e92e2@gmail.com> <83fuopdaf2.fsf@gnu.org> <0913a9f7-519f-e48a-3132-3d1b16267851@gmail.com> <83twd5b4yr.fsf@gnu.org> <83pontb2p8.fsf@gnu.org> <76676126-f9f5-b651-bcb1-bf80a868f990@gmail.com> <83mvixb10l.fsf@gnu.org> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= Message-ID: <692efe36-15aa-665b-8a6f-153d1ffdab78@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 14:40:54 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <83mvixb10l.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="EetkTdVNBWcPdv5GUorbMV3cw2wcJCESf" X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:LB73PjaqdsxPJpcUh7kXilW465TsvGAnSs3C9wlueAzjMY01yo4 F6VBfuFNuQTFRHBJzJZl9GPhZETjhJSu2Gs2F6q4S8qb6HpDL7tHqAI5QiZvWkcipMXQokF ulJtK0pcbyb4DB1BseWI3rlMt4Lchzji2PCQQnrwxOYSK6M9GSmMYALUt6/SCu4sXS7TXTi CHZnSmFjgf9HU7LRekaiw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:6clFiHnq2cM=:K1bIihrkeF0zIKdTsktc+F vCaGSgq9qz5D75YifWz1yilxg3ArIj3CX1dosuPRJnLyvfBbN7vvWtfvLRyJi/y2oGAvfYJvZ mn0RbGaABww/asCHyRJRZinckjR7lDj8LlNmd/ChedoFZgqY0OsYB3MbstFXR/BXiLTqi6W1c GhTZcI3hgs1YMszfcQXzrnxXnOq9EhFVm1Z9Vfp+eAWLZlD6K6SPcxFwkN11ZZAh8XJ1x8B3L Z/RoQXV6m6r2Br3r/jvOv9KOVfkLluWAmFylzHeTdTQaTf2Qk/3p2tJZZo/QE13CkoMrnOGLp cY6nrhUmSyUOk92LRrxi1r7BPtQRgQ3QOhgNVshmrzI9z6VkkvYlbljyTzNADs0gf9fwuo1fC cLoTNaR7KluAJT4y3vlRoLpB70vFTkkU8k/CjOpJp2A7ofMmgu6x9/AT7FfLdtv4H6Otrbtde Ik5VOnOV/0P3mgCt1g84DX7frGW4ik19qyI9sfpnrnra4K3VE7/MMea3kLE9UtqxncB+jGWI/ NYVXVBaYdZ7Db2lkWpREvMmcjIgXgtG1JtXnJW2n2ebx8rGSMPQMa8GEThRygid4Cqh0EkmJU TzrWrJJiGN4kWU/Ur0246nfpmcSfz8k4jt8iS86o04tqk+FDgoAk4gam5N8H+FXV9VB0vYTO7 MdpYqKhVXsVZzxX99Q5A59VlD7SAzVIdRNTojp42ST8La0sonAhmHd2U4stgaY8ms6Dg= X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On 2016-09-24 14:34, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>> > > Emacs supports non-programming applications as well, not just >>> > > programming modes. In fact, the trigger for this discussion was Info, >>> > > a non-programming mode very close to Text mode. >> > >> > Why does info use a monospace font? > Because Texinfo produces filled text on the assumption that it will be > displayed with monospaced font. The Info format was invented for > text-mode readers, and it uses hard newlines where the line should be > broken. This doesn't work well with variable-pitch fonts. [...] Content analysis details: (1.5 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (clement.pit[at]gmail.com) -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [212.227.17.10 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.5 RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM RBL: SORBS: sender is a spam source [212.227.17.10 listed in dnsbl.sorbs.net] -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2) [212.227.17.10 listed in wl.mailspike.net] X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On 2016-09-24 14:34, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>> > > Emacs supports non-programming applications as well, not just >>> > > programming modes. In fact, the trigger for this discussion was Info, >>> > > a non-programming mode very close to Text mode. >> > >> > Why does info use a monospace font? > Because Texinfo produces filled text on the assumption that it will be > displayed with monospaced font. The Info format was invented for > text-mode readers, and it uses hard newlines where the line should be > broken. This doesn't work well with variable-pitch fonts. [...] Content analysis details: (1.5 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2) [212.227.17.10 listed in wl.mailspike.net] -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [212.227.17.10 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.5 RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM RBL: SORBS: sender is a spam source [212.227.17.10 listed in dnsbl.sorbs.net] 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (clement.pit[at]gmail.com) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --EetkTdVNBWcPdv5GUorbMV3cw2wcJCESf Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="8kWUMob9qmCvim7L1GgOal42OUT8BdfDP"; protected-headers="v1" From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 24510@debbugs.gnu.org Message-ID: <692efe36-15aa-665b-8a6f-153d1ffdab78@gmail.com> Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <<6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <<83intneq2g.fsf@gnu.org> <<7f9c8f95-a04d-4e94-9c17-8a348bf89215@default> <<83d1jvds1t.fsf@gnu.org> <83mviycxse.fsf@gnu.org> <8f6d6767-e5f4-79cc-ac3f-199cc58e92e2@gmail.com> <83fuopdaf2.fsf@gnu.org> <0913a9f7-519f-e48a-3132-3d1b16267851@gmail.com> <83twd5b4yr.fsf@gnu.org> <83pontb2p8.fsf@gnu.org> <76676126-f9f5-b651-bcb1-bf80a868f990@gmail.com> <83mvixb10l.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83mvixb10l.fsf@gnu.org> --8kWUMob9qmCvim7L1GgOal42OUT8BdfDP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2016-09-24 14:34, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>> > > Emacs supports non-programming applications as well, not just >>> > > programming modes. In fact, the trigger for this discussion was = Info, >>> > > a non-programming mode very close to Text mode. >> >=20 >> > Why does info use a monospace font? > Because Texinfo produces filled text on the assumption that it will be > displayed with monospaced font. The Info format was invented for > text-mode readers, and it uses hard newlines where the line should be > broken. This doesn't work well with variable-pitch fonts. Ok. In that case, maybe we should just change the default font of the In= fo reader. Do we know of any Info manuals written in Arabic or Hebrew? = If not, is there a point to using Courier New there? Cl=C3=A9ment. --8kWUMob9qmCvim7L1GgOal42OUT8BdfDP-- --EetkTdVNBWcPdv5GUorbMV3cw2wcJCESf Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJX5si2AAoJEPqg+cTm90wjXc0QAJtcSH1DFOdXCpsO2HP392JR s3xfVCyk/72SkbzYlLiyt8h43zcNgwaphZdodz+RYGbt+3jDB/VCdOjMlBtYBGTz y1PKSeDgGnWgbTs3W0Bd5Nc/iM5a432/+wsuckPFwom8IbQORzi5AGA3ob+fLEHc PIIxzt1y9d8ez3uQa2MXqRzqFpcVkh9+cQ5Qm1POhH89C1nkRouY4dQZnpfftmfJ 4sqfNZJJqsgyucBgz8fNqKaKu8V4x1d5sw8mwvSdV9j6bmHspmYPbZO9YTn3TJJ1 yBs2UfC7peTtJ0Rr5ylTqSW+LXjXQE4LqrFU3YlISktVMC/B2OIo32eapHZxrANk wY+42NY8ExKHQMHG4nlw5EDJtQhoQIO9lqg4c9X2Xs8Wa0ZJjsDUC1MccnmQ6OZ4 oZuEIK5dQ9X3gJpQbRaOGkoOJ59cLPT1AqWdltU/30paynvZZSq3xXM2ejxRfWCh SRobtk8rHLvVAHOM/5qiqOBk75MdbcKtF7laiMuxo971AqY5WCAwgmQjdmXy9iyD SWArlElJAddjFWOEN+ExuQdPilGzw/EV9YZMreHzTFRG2NdL/fauQ0r188ghqRpf 7Twc6fmoUkjjswVXPtwYnsVXlbsmKB9t3GnFIgxr8YuJOkApKWPx7hOgFkR5mnZ4 ciJJ+Rr+f9lpFtni7ND1 =2Uci -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --EetkTdVNBWcPdv5GUorbMV3cw2wcJCESf-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 15:16:22 2016 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2016 19:16:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34803 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnsQw-0000SP-N9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:16:22 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:35536) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnsQv-0000S8-J3 for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:16:21 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnsQn-0000OG-5d for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:16:16 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:42238) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnsQn-0000O1-2N; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:16:13 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2166 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1bnsQh-00080Y-C2; Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:16:11 -0400 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 22:16:18 +0300 Message-Id: <83lgyhaz25.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: =?utf-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment?= Pit--Claudel In-reply-to: <692efe36-15aa-665b-8a6f-153d1ffdab78@gmail.com> (message from =?utf-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment?= Pit--Claudel on Sat, 24 Sep 2016 14:40:54 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <<6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <<83intneq2g.fsf@gnu.org> <<7f9c8f95-a04d-4e94-9c17-8a348bf89215@default> <<83d1jvds1t.fsf@gnu.org> <83mviycxse.fsf@gnu.org> <8f6d6767-e5f4-79cc-ac3f-199cc58e92e2@gmail.com> <83fuopdaf2.fsf@gnu.org> <0913a9f7-519f-e48a-3132-3d1b16267851@gmail.com> <83twd5b4yr.fsf@gnu.org> <83pontb2p8.fsf@gnu.org> <76676126-f9f5-b651-bcb1-bf80a868f990@gmail.com> <83mvixb10l.fsf@gnu.org> <692efe36-15aa-665b-8a6f-153d1ffdab78@gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -8.1 (--------) > Cc: 24510@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Clément Pit--Claudel > Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 14:40:54 -0400 > > In that case, maybe we should just change the default font of the Info reader. On MS-Windows only? Doesn't sound like important enough to me. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 25 11:57:52 2016 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Sep 2016 15:57:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35721 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1boBoO-0004Ks-In for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2016 11:57:52 -0400 Received: from mail-pf0-f176.google.com ([209.85.192.176]:35801) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bo4TY-000687-AD for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2016 04:07:52 -0400 Received: by mail-pf0-f176.google.com with SMTP id s13so20959666pfd.2 for <24510@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 25 Sep 2016 01:07:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=doraji.xyz; s=google-2048-bit; h=from:to:subject:organization:references:face:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=NFqRqwTpATZlupm5RgpcaGr9DZ9WJzvXm923ESUTx4M=; b=jK3c2mHIZLiFazq4WUtfO3xNPAnigbrTc6AePV9mrGsVUnuYlg+8E2XLNxwLDnjAzo 8eX5OAycx8QSX7XTCJekhf9kvz4YJFH1uhO36TuMQorxFJZOvZeqy9rIedtvlvImkzf0 oGBkYqljyFEPTKv89NHVRu2LV0E3I2RIoW6DFigU/tUP1iNEIeqcBnC4i6rqRx5aoshJ 7strjsLAtKUMvUqd4t0ySrbydoUEYkencALMdzlCt+VNb4dPg39hzlW+1AmpQxz6Sphz drvr3PhXy7KAywvqS5L5lWzWEDgkTlhDiGGioqw57aIaDXpOeNQzaIkMO3tGD6/qY/Dh yMLg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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Sun, 25 Sep 2016 17:07:20 +0900 To: 24510@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` Organization: =?utf-8?B?6YeR6Zm1ICjmt7XmupDsnZgg66eI7J2MKQ==?= References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default>>> <83intneq2g.fsf@gnu.org>>> <7f9c8f95-a04d-4e94-9c17-8a348bf89215@default>>> <83d1jvds1t.fsf@gnu.org>>> > <83mviycxse.fsf@gnu.org>> <3b1a716d-65e5-4eaa-912d-8d0471feb403@default> <83eg49da94.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACYAAAAmBAMAAABaE/SdAAAAAXNSR0IArs4c6QAAACRQTFRF AAAAISMhMjQxREZEWVtYbnBthYeEmpyZsLKvxsjF3uDd9Pbzh9xQKwAAAAF0Uk5TAEDm2GYAAAAB YktHRACIBR1IAAAACXBIWXMAAAsTAAALEwEAmpwYAAAAB3RJTUUH4AgVCRAKKOGdjgAAAhxJREFU KM810j1P20AcBvCT+gZ06yeoqnbq0gG1UViQKEKFBRFAAS9tCokhCxLNC/GCeGly8VK1JLbPC6IQ 23dbceL4ni/XS865zT/5/3KPTUg7GAxk56y8u3NYM3mZFx1C+nbRGK32+teFdx9fVWjqjghZqDz4 v01hyUHLOrXeGFGREHJzaR+IxAdsa/j+Kn94omx+jecQA1LY6AbeGpmcU2YgAVLYuO9dT4k8W4SQ UGzJpPJV29wiugLW2PCjxyOSnRUhbmpLMidk/GVmWzZwBFwA8YeZPUXqJ5YvTdxn7cjCPATUejSq /ptRy41UsWQC4ySzF8mI+sGZSMHkKLOX7aNOxWOUN9neKNBWHTUjzgVnXuRxeqJtQEM1IxWQlHJP m81c5mKMsUs9n07tuRRV9SzCLnhI9Xtkd6OK6YaTuE6yyUYL+nhIf81MJQpDJS2S89l9KQzg0FKp 3urw6rfkCQZQc1XOupuQy2TOZ8eYhJ/quor9l5C9JG00mj4ibfUddzNYO5hMDWWWHlA/z4UFRY/N SrYIZP9z/nhFWf2H+VrbGLxYL39Ho7TffshqVcJX1OkAQ/bzgsz6HQ95uF1l5T9vrwub2iJz6LZp o1NrmszZmt4N+37c6CIMqRM5bTr95li345rp9YOkVTqg4k5bGvOoud29K+c665GzPLENxC71Rf/b p2J+lfYmK2IJcZFzt9Pl/KrExuqH+Q/CVTDob/22AwAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Thanks-XYZ: =?utf-8?B?6KqgwrfmlazCt+S/oQ==?= X-Thanks-HS: =?utf-8?B?XuyynO2VmOywveyDneydhCDri6Qg7IK066as7Iuc66Ck64qU?= =?utf-8?B?IOuniOydjF9eKSkvLw==?= X-Thanks-BS: =?utf-8?B?Xl7sppDqsbDsmrTluIPlvrflpKnkuIte67O0656M7LCs5Zyw?= =?utf-8?B?5LiK5aSp5ZyL5bu66KitX14pKS8v?= X-Thanks-Absolete-Coding-System: UTF-8 X-Operating-System: =?utf-8?B?4omqZGluZ+KJqw==?= -- The Gnus X-Gnus-Location: Republic of Korea =?utf-8?B?KOuMgO2VnOuvvOq1rSwg5aSn6Z+T?= =?utf-8?B?5rCR5ZyLKQ==?= X-Gnus-Local-TimeZone: (UTC+09:00) Korea Standard Time, Seoul X-Gnus-GitHub: https://github.com/soyeomul/Gnus X-Gnus-Flower: Rhododendron indicum =?utf-8?B?KOyXsOyCsO2ZjQ==?= --- =?utf-8?Q?yw=E2=84=A2=29?= X-Chromebook-Gnus-Window-System-Distributor: `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11501000 X-Chromebook-Gnus-Distro: Ubuntu 12.04.5 LTS (via Crouton) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2016 17:07:19 +0900 In-Reply-To: <83eg49da94.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 24 Sep 2016 10:31:35 +0300") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.130016 (Ma Gnus v0.16) Emacs/23.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 25 Sep 2016 11:57:51 -0400 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) RWxpIFphcmV0c2tpaSA8ZWxpekBnbnUub3JnPiDqu5jshJwg7JOw7Iuc6ri4LA0KIOOAiuiomOS6 iyDlhajmlocgPDgzZWc0OWRhOTQuZnNmQGdudS5vcmc+IOyXkOyEnOOAizoNCg0KPj4gWy4uLl0N Cj4gSXQgc2hvdWxkIGJlIGEgbW9ub3NwYWNlZCBmb250LCBhbmQgaXQgc2hvdWxkIGNvdmVyIGFz IG1hbnkgVW5pY29kZQ0KPiBibG9ja3MgZm9yIGFzIG1hbnkgc2NyaXB0cyBhcyBwb3NzaWJsZS4N Cg0KRWxpLCBpIGxpa2UgdGhlc2UgeW91ciBtaW5kLCB2ZXJ5IGJlYXV0aWZ1bCwgdGhhbmtzIQ0K DQotLSANCl7qs6Drp5nsirXri4jri6QgX+WcsOW5s+WkqeaIkF8g6rCQ7IKs7ZWp64uI64ukX14p KS8vDQo= From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 28 06:48:37 2022 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Apr 2022 10:48:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45525 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nk1hM-0002FV-Pi for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 06:48:36 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:53096) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nk1hL-0002FC-8T for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 06:48:35 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=sB4PzR96mbzdXW0an/7SGlL48UCs3WUUoXDoY7z1yOU=; b=Ef6yo81b/PzHccPl7UE7Nx+vbK BlJMIfxqeJJJXWFy3k8fdBzI9GA19QVPBhK3ivdZLi0bWBt0yR0HH46IzTxZsz0p0FtogCD2xHbsz z0ZeXKl53Pg7GRtNynsif0yMIgs0CBE4C0ANPWhkE0TM/VL7zsVSuLcRzRPBIAOtEe+A=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nk1hB-0008FD-V1; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 12:48:28 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> X-Now-Playing: Yukihiro Takahashi's _Blue Moon Blue_: "Slow Turning Of My Heart" Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 12:48:25 +0200 In-Reply-To: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Thu, 22 Sep 2016 10:04:27 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <87zgk5mqkm.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Drew Adams writes: > emacs -Q > > C-h r g Dired > C-s `list > > finds nothing, missing the occurrence of ‘list-directory’ that is in the > same node. > > What looks exactly (AFAICT) like the backquote you typed at t [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: Juri Linkov , 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Drew Adams writes: > emacs -Q > > C-h r g Dired > C-s `list > > finds nothing, missing the occurrence of =E2=80=98list-directory=E2=80=99= that is in the > same node. > > What looks exactly (AFAICT) like the backquote you typed at the prompt > is NOT the same as the character that precedes "list-directory" in the > buffer. And it is not matched to that character by Isearch. That > character is LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK. It would be possible to fold certain character groups into equivalence classes for isearch in these modes (I'm thinking info-mode and help-mode) so that ` and =E2=80=98 are treated equivalently -- that might h= elp users and shouldn't lead to regressions? Perhaps Juri has some comments; added to the CCs. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 28 06:48:41 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Apr 2022 10:48:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45528 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nk1hR-0002Fl-0K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 06:48:41 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:53110) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nk1hP-0002FG-0H for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 06:48:39 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=OWAiczWrAmgw4hxuTat0WOuF5xnbZdDdgQ81LxMV8wE=; b=uqjgYGn4hNR4/yB7NkBQFkQFDh UjoULkqcnQXOqK+zJplppHYKuhU3SWHwuJYVCHng+Xnzo/bjMTWIgtkdpT2Ni6RbNkHyPgJANkLmd CicT3G0T/BZ+u62fHY0jWMaU1fAg3DB6BS6TELooHqfAvqX+LSecLWHyReuafC8hQqRo=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nk1hH-0008FM-BH for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 12:48:33 +0200 Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 12:48:30 +0200 Message-Id: <87y1zpmqkh.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #24510 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. 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28 Apr 2022 18:03:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49877 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nk8UF-0002he-VL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 14:03:32 -0400 Received: from relay2-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.194]:37163) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nk8UC-0002hC-U1 for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 14:03:29 -0400 Received: (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DB2AC4000B; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 18:03:21 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <87zgk5mqkm.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 20:38:25 +0300 In-Reply-To: <87zgk5mqkm.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Thu, 28 Apr 2022 12:48:25 +0200") Message-ID: <86levp6rce.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: Drew Adams , 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> C-h r g Dired >> C-s `list >> >> finds nothing, missing the occurrence of ‘list-directory’ that is in the >> same node. >> >> What looks exactly (AFAICT) like the backquote you typed at the prompt >> is NOT the same as the character that precedes "list-directory" in the >> buffer. And it is not matched to that character by Isearch. That >> character is LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK. > > It would be possible to fold certain character groups into equivalence > classes for isearch in these modes (I'm thinking info-mode and > help-mode) so that ` and ‘ are treated equivalently -- that might help > users and shouldn't lead to regressions? It's possible to enable char-fold search only in Info mode, but probably this should be left for user customization, because this problem is not Info-specific: most likely the user might want ` and ‘ to be treated equivalently pretty much everywhere. But still if the user want this only in Info, it's very easy to type C-s M-s ' `list. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 28 14:15:47 2022 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Apr 2022 18:15:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49892 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nk8g7-0002zn-Es for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 14:15:47 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:57320) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nk8g5-0002zY-6T for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 14:15:45 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=o08vMUQXJVlr50g4SjzCwzi6QlAkzFIO3Zklq2iSVzQ=; b=EcqBjs77lv+4xuHbKN7bsUAMT3 /7yC+DJ2vrcbbVEDHf4ztF0iBXZrpfmRhnzO74OhKb5e1wlYde+9g6mCcBkkQqPmJmY//qjooJNJh 2X6risxBGvXh0H2WhyMTxkQWsErBi1NTIvJf/J8lOsJeliwA8YaioDs5HhnT8ZEPAY+w=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nk8fu-0003Y5-Fe; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 20:15:36 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Juri Linkov Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <87zgk5mqkm.fsf@gnus.org> <86levp6rce.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAADFBMVEUdGBaCYm9UPET/ ///ZTkq4AAAAAWJLR0QDEQxM8gAAAAd0SU1FB+YEHBIJNXtVFKwAAAFTSURBVCjPjVFNa8JAEJ2G BrZ7riX0tIS2rPMrRFDoLQUToicpKI2/Yl1U0hwLSuxpWRC2+ysbk2xs6aVzmrdv9r35APgTAYg2 8+LhTA8cmGTjfld0t09OrgziTF93jA6FP7+oEQZSFHVKOQnzkNkGKAxz1KwWITwMCecNAFKZCaZa ASVpJ+Yht9vOljO17ZgCceNyTxeFI9bppRePPlG+ds0VnJorN93TPTVrV3dTKtKm1haUUmEUmYOf LQ7JcqmzeFtCPB8douhgp/4ugpMc96J0gs/+7hb8dJQuRvEwmU1rb1MZdy3EVPho2nb6L4D7HBvg SzgmRdCAzSscezlzcwIL63XQgVFKK5BYfSIP1ZiI+Uf1AJ6xqxX9zK0oz3ayYji+nxkQlnqagMfR nQQ4N/X1UFhWlX7VW3gUlksr38raCc6MVEH7B7ngIoAf8Qv8O74Bmr1iBcXp8PAAAAAldEVYdGRh dGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjItMDQtMjhUMTg6MDk6NTMrMDA6MDAumqAwAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOm1vZGlm eQAyMDIyLTA0LTI4VDE4OjA5OjUzKzAwOjAwX8cYjAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: Docile Goetica's _SHAPE Wire CD'2020_: "sharpened faculties of awareness and understanding" Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 20:15:32 +0200 In-Reply-To: <86levp6rce.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (Juri Linkov's message of "Thu, 28 Apr 2022 20:38:25 +0300") Message-ID: <8735hxjcqj.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Juri Linkov writes: > It's possible to enable char-fold search only in Info mode, > but probably this should be left for user customization, > because this problem is not Info-specific: most likely the user > might want [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: Drew Adams , 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Juri Linkov writes: > It's possible to enable char-fold search only in Info mode, > but probably this should be left for user customization, > because this problem is not Info-specific: most likely the user > might want ` and =E2=80=98 to be treated equivalently pretty much everywh= ere. My thorough research shows that 99.7% of Emacs users don't see a =E2=80=98 outside of *Help* and *info*, so doing something special there seems useful. > But still if the user want this only in Info, it's very easy to type > C-s M-s ' `list. That does more than just fold `' with =E2=80=98=E2=80=99, though. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 28 14:58:24 2022 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Apr 2022 18:58:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49943 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nk9LL-00046M-6l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 14:58:24 -0400 Received: from mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.177.32]:45708) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nk9LF-00046A-6T for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 14:58:21 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (m0246630.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.5/8.17.1.5) with ESMTP id 23SIUfVV003733; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 18:58:16 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; 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Thu, 28 Apr 2022 18:58:13 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Juri Linkov , Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` Thread-Topic: [External] : Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` Thread-Index: AQHYWypKqJQdSc5dpEmO5J9zfYJQTq0FqtKQ Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 18:58:13 +0000 Message-ID: References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <87zgk5mqkm.fsf@gnus.org> <86levp6rce.fsf@mail.linkov.net> In-Reply-To: <86levp6rce.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 6c70971e-0899-41a7-29e7-08da29490c27 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SA2PR10MB4729:EE_ x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 8WeUVl7TSdTgW6JTr4nXivGL4hkBRXSM/TUCfWH1mw3O7mf64mUOMQS8mVCSfgq5lwiOPjIrUxDxdy4mh8YtshzN7gID/QTdhv2XKdHLrlG4n+CujYhRtu92gyihoscH6Euu1SfCRIW/T6HP5IPoU7LYiru/qKKZoHQbfbSQoAdouoNeJGhSkLqM1WEHdoDiAdnV8Nor1MPH/lJjU4etiC/PE8W4/AqAMWHy4J0rEvbDIS1mmYBGbERY1HNM+zqONHZlXO3pm2v0FoDHtOCWsB91KoXLwjONjn06GWiFhRVKTClj7bwaeCaVw+Jrxu12yvXM4Q/aABQlEagtY9uib2uYubdG7v94ergNLmWs++0n1ZA9buIDrlf0pT8NGAqIczX+KuLc/tXTUiqdeZb59JwpQ2EWh4dB9KnkSX+6rIVmZyUNjXcdxQOyJKya3WvLgDv4W2nvmNmoi4vnvvv0kHa9/NsOtTbV2L5j9sCJNxI8kiHA2Y3hBUAhVH/N96frmtixjrlI0BdJJhgoTLE+v4OudTuu9NYorcV7TOF2fwirsQ/Jnr+3pSE19wxL1zXMwz1pD7Z3CzgIFWnGdTRfIuB0vDSkn+M5KPBBW+YU/0Z/WYN2drQJGO77niRETg+XnDk8Rq1PY6BMfSP61LHGt6LlgyiNgHBckJarlWXLrzn1Jg7j4wE4H8RRYyd9PYITjFPQ0ON7KImViCYp38E70X1oNB1YkyJBcrFUdLUjk8w= x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: fc08fe92-14e8-4be3-2211-08da29495ce3 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 28 Apr 2022 19:00:29.3930 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: RmXWDRU/VIZtTR+xc+ovMPySInc5av0UPaWL55t5ZCrE0ZAQzk0PV3O1GQcjyk/cTVlu9QPa5y7hCrZ927f8Sg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CH2PR10MB3958 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.486, 18.0.858 definitions=2022-04-28_03:2022-04-28, 2022-04-28 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=926 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2202240000 definitions=main-2204280114 X-Proofpoint-GUID: SIaGb0NaZOGffBuFaYDXDyWAVqClddC7 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: SIaGb0NaZOGffBuFaYDXDyWAVqClddC7 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: "24510@debbugs.gnu.org" <24510@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) PiBNeSB0aG9yb3VnaCByZXNlYXJjaCBzaG93cyB0aGF0IDk5LjclIG9mIEVtYWNzIHVzZXJzIGRv bid0IHNlZSBhIOKAmA0KPiBvdXRzaWRlIG9mICpIZWxwKiBhbmQgKmluZm8qLCBzbyBkb2luZyBz b21ldGhpbmcgc3BlY2lhbCB0aGVyZSBzZWVtcw0KPiB1c2VmdWwuDQoNClBvc3NpYmx5LCB5ZXMu ICBPcHRpb25hbGx5IChtYXliZSBvcHQtb3V0LCBub3Qgb3B0LWluKS4NCg0KPiA+IEJ1dCBzdGls bCBpZiB0aGUgdXNlciB3YW50IHRoaXMgb25seSBpbiBJbmZvLCBpdCdzIA0KPiA+IHZlcnkgZWFz eSB0byB0eXBlIEMtcyBNLXMgJyBgbGlzdC4NCj4gDQo+IFRoYXQgZG9lcyBtb3JlIHRoYW4ganVz dCBmb2xkIGAnIHdpdGgg4oCY4oCZLCB0aG91Z2guDQoNClRoYXQgdG9vIGlzIGEgZ29vZCBwb2lu dC4gIE1heWJlIGEgY29tbWFuZCB0aGF0IGZvbGRzDQpvbmx5IHNvbWUgKGRlZmluYWJsZSkgc2V0 IG9mIGNvbmZ1c2FibGVzPw0K From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 29 03:07:12 2022 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2022 07:07:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50756 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nkKie-0001Vl-Lf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2022 03:07:12 -0400 Received: from relay11.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.178.231]:55445) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nkKid-0001VW-1g for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2022 03:07:11 -0400 Received: (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 77AA0100011; Fri, 29 Apr 2022 07:07:02 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <87zgk5mqkm.fsf@gnus.org> <86levp6rce.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <8735hxjcqj.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 09:51:09 +0300 In-Reply-To: <8735hxjcqj.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Thu, 28 Apr 2022 20:15:32 +0200") Message-ID: <86fslwxuxe.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: Drew Adams , 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> It's possible to enable char-fold search only in Info mode, >> but probably this should be left for user customization, >> because this problem is not Info-specific: most likely the user >> might want ` and ‘ to be treated equivalently pretty much everywhere. > > My thorough research shows that 99.7% of Emacs users don't see a ‘ > outside of *Help* and *info*, so doing something special there seems > useful. > >> But still if the user want this only in Info, it's very easy to type >> C-s M-s ' `list. > > That does more than just fold `' with ‘’, though. So only folding `' with ‘’ is required? Then it's easy to do: diff --git a/lisp/info.el b/lisp/info.el index 8ca6c54979..656a3b0b11 100644 --- a/lisp/info.el +++ b/lisp/info.el @@ -41,7 +41,9 @@ ;;; Code: -(eval-when-compile (require 'cl-lib)) +(eval-when-compile + (require 'cl-lib) + (require 'subr-x)) (defgroup info nil "Info subsystem." @@ -2147,7 +2149,10 @@ Info-isearch-search (funcall isearch-regexp-function string lax) (word-search-regexp string lax)))) (isearch-regexp string) - (t (regexp-quote string))) + (t (thread-last + (regexp-quote string) + (replace-regexp-in-string "`" "[`‘]") + (replace-regexp-in-string "'" "['’]")))) bound noerror count (unless isearch-forward 'backward))) (point)) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 29 06:08:48 2022 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2022 10:08:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50898 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nkNYN-0008CV-RM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2022 06:08:48 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:36030) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nkNYL-0008CH-Kk for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2022 06:08:46 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=cS3u1c1sFbpnGAkxXqT2amzfv4elb+F7UvgOO1tiTOg=; b=SAcbxHKCLPvbs769d+MarGImbh AunwQlCMIp0Al9WYBUKBSyTUOaHRtIip5gqNUPtZm9zlpVLwmgM/nMMRMoZcas/iyv/tnrvuksdi6 dEBEvKvvxLh96Dmu2N1Qxb5GY8hwugLmsuyOtvCNjIx21dtKvDHCzZ1T6qzT4c/gd6YU=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nkNYB-0005Ew-02; Fri, 29 Apr 2022 12:08:37 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Juri Linkov Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <87zgk5mqkm.fsf@gnus.org> <86levp6rce.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <8735hxjcqj.fsf@gnus.org> <86fslwxuxe.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAADFBMVEVMPz6tSELAp5r/ ///wg2LlAAAAAWJLR0QDEQxM8gAAAAd0SU1FB+YEHQktLqgXFxIAAAGdSURBVCjPRZHNatwwFIWP xNh0tHKHcRhm5ZYQEj+FYlIoWanFGmhW3TQkfgrHq5KVY0JoZ+UGzxDfp+yRXajA+H7cc390BAAL u61xASRwib6yhsAvnE/eO7sJUQJEnudmQRiq+BDgG0inPsi8L7Ew6PNZVm6YyXIzyZgyyP41KIHl f1nu2DqduqXldsinOc6XKWU5eqgAWalcFfaMXFpmu/1bAe4UIdr9vsK7FdYTOM7PcsrU2qKQMVzh Lqy+KDZNpn8w4jD1eiESLhfzdy0iQeGMSPN49hNxnUA+5yzVinkLqc9NvYaeamQ4N00rzZx5oywL 8ED4paVOpKvuFeFRy8Pd8WmJyOLlpchZ2i1hmDkyVOUr4TmAsg6dIPaES91adD1Swlj09KGDP/Go Dl9bwkcjR2YO07OsYhkiVAOWyXvoWEbgZqB1Cf50Mn6BPNvwYomWkQ1axdDhKb7cEYLDgNXKw3+f QWldQvX4EBJFbBLEY3rLIquDPycyZLBwzQzjVLOaQfoAeYDtXgZOpW9iUe0nZ+krjZNKpJ3h8Bfz d5OVvNxeIQAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAyMi0wNC0yOVQwOTo0NTo0NiswMDowMPQctWcA AAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjItMDQtMjlUMDk6NDU6NDYrMDA6MDCFQQ3bAAAAAElFTkSu QmCC X-Now-Playing: Themselves's _CrownsDown_: "roman is as roman does" Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 12:08:34 +0200 In-Reply-To: <86fslwxuxe.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (Juri Linkov's message of "Fri, 29 Apr 2022 09:51:09 +0300") Message-ID: <87pml0gq1p.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Juri Linkov writes: > So only folding `' with ‘’ is required? Yup, I think so. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: Drew Adams , 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Juri Linkov writes: > So only folding `' with =E2=80=98=E2=80=99 is required? Yup, I think so. > Then it's easy to do: [...] > @@ -2147,7 +2149,10 @@ Info-isearch-search > (funcall isearch-regexp-function string lax) > (word-search-regexp string lax)))) > (isearch-regexp string) > - (t (regexp-quote string))) > + (t (thread-last > + (regexp-quote string) > + (replace-regexp-in-string "`" "[`=E2=80=98]") > + (replace-regexp-in-string "'" "['=E2=80=99]")))) > bound noerror count > (unless isearch-forward 'backward))) > (point)) Nice. But we should also have this in *Help* (and possibly other buffers where we do the `' -> =E2=80=98=E2=80=99 dance, but I can't think o= f any others at the moment), so would it possible to have this like a little minor mode? Or would that be difficult? (I've barely looked at the char-fold machinery, so I have no idea.) --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 29 11:01:27 2022 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2022 15:01:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55097 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nkS7b-0002vd-81 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2022 11:01:27 -0400 Received: from mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.165.32]:64188) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nkS7X-0002vR-LB for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2022 11:01:25 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (m0246617.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.5/8.17.1.5) with ESMTP id 23TDXeih025784; Fri, 29 Apr 2022 15:01:22 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : 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Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) PiB3ZSBzaG91bGQgYWxzbyBoYXZlIHRoaXMgaW4gKkhlbHAqIChhbmQgcG9zc2libHkgb3RoZXIN Cj4gYnVmZmVycyB3aGVyZSB3ZSBkbyB0aGUgYCcgLT4g4oCY4oCZIGRhbmNlLCANCg0KVGhlIHJl YWwsIHJpZ2h0IHNvbHV0aW9uIGlzIG5vdCB0byBkbyB0aGF0DQpjb252b2x1dGVkIGRhbmNlLiAg Tm90IGJ5IGRlZmF1bHQsIGFueXdheS4NCg0KVGhlIGF1dG9tYXRpYyByZWZyYWluIHdpbGwgYmUg InRoYXQgc2hpcCBoYXMNCnNhaWxlZCIsIGFsYXMuICBTYW1lIG9sZCBzb25nLg0KDQpCdXQgdGhh dCBzaGlwL21pc3Rha2UgY291bGQgYmUgcmVjYWxsZWQuDQoNCkEgY2FyIGNvbXBhbnkgcmVjYWxs cyB2ZWhpY2xlcyB0aGF0IHdlcmUNCnBvb3JseSBkZXNpZ25lZCBhbmQgdGh1cyBjcmVhdGUgcHJv YmxlbXMuDQoNCldlIHNob3VsZCBiZSBicmF2ZSBhbmQgaG9uZXN0IGVub3VnaCB0bw0KcmVjb2du aXplIHRoZSBkYW1hZ2Ugd2UncmUgY2F1c2luZyBhbmQNCm1ha2UgYW1lbmRzLg0K From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 29 13:22:49 2022 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2022 17:22:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55282 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nkUKO-0000Uz-WB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2022 13:22:49 -0400 Received: from relay5-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.197]:40813) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nkUKM-0000UK-22 for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2022 13:22:46 -0400 Received: (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5C4B71C0003; Fri, 29 Apr 2022 17:22:38 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <87zgk5mqkm.fsf@gnus.org> <86levp6rce.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <8735hxjcqj.fsf@gnus.org> <86fslwxuxe.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87pml0gq1p.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 20:17:27 +0300 In-Reply-To: <87pml0gq1p.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Fri, 29 Apr 2022 12:08:34 +0200") Message-ID: <86bkwjvmwg.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: Drew Adams , 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Nice. But we should also have this in *Help* (and possibly other > buffers where we do the `' -> ‘’ dance, but I can't think of any others > at the moment), so would it possible to have this like a little minor > mode? Or would that be difficult? (I've barely looked at the char-fold > machinery, so I have no idea.) I have a patch that shows the contents of help buffers in Info mode. Then searching for ‘’ in help text will be handled by Info-isearch-search. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 30 07:45:59 2022 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2022 11:45:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56018 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nklXz-0003gN-29 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 07:45:59 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:47446) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nklXx-0003Yi-Hk for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 07:45:58 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=u7fOe34apAlWoquFxkVXqvwaxjvanF4yLNM9QYnpJd8=; b=snJk4GCuIjbBs1ztXs3kuiIJro wXxC5RUR8/XAjss4Xi5BC5Ags/Ev8lDAHYAHNZRkbQbWlE2LqbKqo4mWlFwxLonbws4ShbAe4lRpL AEaQ/oPxNtyeMeUQNcqHjJTd3KsK4bLkghq9ZIWid3J2J3RhcCFvxLvuz5eDGvTeG2Iw=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nklXm-0007RT-Ry; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 13:45:49 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Juri Linkov Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <87zgk5mqkm.fsf@gnus.org> <86levp6rce.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <8735hxjcqj.fsf@gnus.org> <86fslwxuxe.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87pml0gq1p.fsf@gnus.org> <86bkwjvmwg.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAADFBMVEVAOkVCPEU5Mzj/ //9zPAoYAAAAAWJLR0QDEQxM8gAAAAd0SU1FB+YEHgsmDxa7pQcAAAG1SURBVCjPLdDBbptAEAbg MUol6hMgjJKcMFIlvE9BLR/cnJqKQTGn+IBk71Ng1FZ0T4klI9cngupqmafMLITD7n7amX9HwK04 WFVoEbUhgBI6otiirrVKEKJsiSq+iUqwhaYRpMGWH9CMp7WBVVetYCzryqAtRcs9E8UFOgx5Xa+3 FbVeHZmAWKKlY09HtUGMvg2MkGqwHfQBHB2ZAOlimoC3iEoZA+lHfxl6NpzyBUz1E0Do2zczRHgQ Nvd4n60B09IHTNPEwRmsV2UwwdRP3BWjiAOuwMS5Qdh9pRHfQwQxVwGfuUteQexU4xjg8gRyR4x0 liKnUUy/z3P/V4pFwePQ//N25iJuEEhQUxfOHZchyI0KVOpPTCLscVrV37JXxAIh31Ont+mnDPMT kKQu3uLwAfXU0ZxPj9mGIY5avPzNMOOyPZl/XQfDO9xEpKibFTwOcQ8jvuOpOaBRDLoNe4a+KHFP nfvlzIP2zSUJ9LGUmnt0cy6yn3RIFyaA6BmlKlfuCIE5vYg/I+h4laXsR8imlw0dPm5ee156kAMu V16GcUiKi9n0gAepzDY3+Pcjvzd4ewd89O+M+1oisAAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAyMi0w NC0zMFQxMTozODoxNSswMDowMMwAyCsAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjItMDQtMzBUMTE6 Mzg6MTUrMDA6MDC9XXCXAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: New Order's _Brotherhood_: "Bizarre Love Triangle" Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 13:45:46 +0200 In-Reply-To: <86bkwjvmwg.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (Juri Linkov's message of "Fri, 29 Apr 2022 20:17:27 +0300") Message-ID: <874k2a4wwl.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Juri Linkov writes: > I have a patch that shows the contents of help buffers in Info mode. > Then searching for ‘’ in help text will be handled by Info-isearch-search. Hm... I think I'd like to keep help buffers in help mode, though. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: Drew Adams , 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Juri Linkov writes: > I have a patch that shows the contents of help buffers in Info mode. > Then searching for =E2=80=98=E2=80=99 in help text will be handled by Inf= o-isearch-search. Hm... I think I'd like to keep help buffers in help mode, though. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 01 13:48:13 2022 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2022 17:48:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34112 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nlDg5-0000UX-Lw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 13:48:13 -0400 Received: from relay4-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.196]:38175) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nlDg3-0000Ti-Me for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 13:48:11 -0400 Received: (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 107F5E0008; Sun, 1 May 2022 17:48:04 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <87zgk5mqkm.fsf@gnus.org> <86levp6rce.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <8735hxjcqj.fsf@gnus.org> <86fslwxuxe.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87pml0gq1p.fsf@gnus.org> <86bkwjvmwg.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <874k2a4wwl.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 20:11:34 +0300 In-Reply-To: <874k2a4wwl.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sat, 30 Apr 2022 13:45:46 +0200") Message-ID: <86y1zlgou1.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: Drew Adams , 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> I have a patch that shows the contents of help buffers in Info mode. >> Then searching for ‘’ in help text will be handled by Info-isearch-search. > > Hm... I think I'd like to keep help buffers in help mode, though. It's possible to do this in help mode, but what keys should toggle char-folding of quotes while using Isearch in help buffers? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 01 14:59:02 2022 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2022 18:59:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34240 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nlEmc-0006h1-9f for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 14:59:02 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:34094) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nlEma-0006gU-B9 for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 14:59:00 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=YcaIO2qsTga3dUYUKnAqAfknOQp8ouwrz/o0J/ksP3g=; b=EQz1c29L13yQT3rz25Z8dehBQT jGE8JPzGZJ/aIdSodAiwjeikolOoNMD1J+P9djviT/CLkr2ux65nk6giyaymOG6HrP50pFOVlgVfs QaO4DSYlR/tkmsldhHKw0A2XaN/jSHcCp862yc/xnMxAu66n0i/VJh7X4Wn3ZY2Rsfa4=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nlEmR-0000NO-8n; Sun, 01 May 2022 20:58:53 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Juri Linkov Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <87zgk5mqkm.fsf@gnus.org> <86levp6rce.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <8735hxjcqj.fsf@gnus.org> <86fslwxuxe.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87pml0gq1p.fsf@gnus.org> <86bkwjvmwg.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <874k2a4wwl.fsf@gnus.org> <86y1zlgou1.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Now-Playing: Bogdan Raczynski's _Mixes_: "Mix 2" Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 20:58:49 +0200 In-Reply-To: <86y1zlgou1.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (Juri Linkov's message of "Sun, 01 May 2022 20:11:34 +0300") Message-ID: <87ee1dcc5y.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Juri Linkov writes: > It's possible to do this in help mode, but what keys should toggle > char-folding of quotes while using Isearch in help buffers? I may be misunderstanding the question -- should the normal keys toggle that? I was thinking that the default in those buffers would be to fold the quoting characters, but that would be totally outsid [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: Drew Adams , 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Juri Linkov writes: > It's possible to do this in help mode, but what keys should toggle > char-folding of quotes while using Isearch in help buffers? I may be misunderstanding the question -- should the normal keys toggle that? I was thinking that the default in those buffers would be to fold the quoting characters, but that would be totally outside the normal folding machinery, so that wouldn't be affected at all. But I don't know whether that's possible (or easy). -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon May 02 12:15:02 2022 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 May 2022 16:15:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37736 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nlYhS-0007dJ-9l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 02 May 2022 12:15:02 -0400 Received: from relay7-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.200]:48103) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nlYhR-0007cS-2t for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 02 May 2022 12:15:01 -0400 Received: (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 20E8D20008; Mon, 2 May 2022 16:14:52 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <87zgk5mqkm.fsf@gnus.org> <86levp6rce.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <8735hxjcqj.fsf@gnus.org> <86fslwxuxe.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87pml0gq1p.fsf@gnus.org> <86bkwjvmwg.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <874k2a4wwl.fsf@gnus.org> <86y1zlgou1.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87ee1dcc5y.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Mon, 02 May 2022 19:12:46 +0300 In-Reply-To: <87ee1dcc5y.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sun, 01 May 2022 20:58:49 +0200") Message-ID: <865ymnrk01.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: Drew Adams , 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> It's possible to do this in help mode, but what keys should toggle >> char-folding of quotes while using Isearch in help buffers? > > I may be misunderstanding the question -- should the normal keys toggle > that? I was thinking that the default in those buffers would be to > fold the quoting characters, but that would be totally outside the > normal folding machinery, so that wouldn't be affected at all. I thought that by default Isearch always should be literal, so the user could search only for plain ', and not to match its fancy variants. Currently, M-s ' switches to mode that folds all possible characters. But how to switch to new mode that folds only quoting characters? > But I don't know whether that's possible (or easy). This should not be too hard to do, but I don't understand what UI it could have. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 03 06:34:10 2022 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 May 2022 10:34:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38752 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nlpr7-0007Vn-Vh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 May 2022 06:34:10 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:53808) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nlpr6-0007VZ-Md for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 May 2022 06:34:09 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Yvg5EVFLufpw4ttN12A2cl1llpFBBOkYReYqgbDfs4k=; b=R62yVbIE3rP6YHFJ6vAzU3LeI4 csCvJycg0+OsquLslgAaIp37bPxYn514YnVq/9XEm4HKuMOWKmR2yWAEBcsFBAu0MbVG0cIEtczN9 DUpsHjeRgXiGoCM2UbgjlJN/i1C7usB1DcyQp9IYjgRTx3s4mYtuWivwnhZqGG69/Bn8=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nlpqx-0004FK-0X; Tue, 03 May 2022 12:34:01 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Juri Linkov Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <87zgk5mqkm.fsf@gnus.org> <86levp6rce.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <8735hxjcqj.fsf@gnus.org> <86fslwxuxe.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87pml0gq1p.fsf@gnus.org> <86bkwjvmwg.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <874k2a4wwl.fsf@gnus.org> <86y1zlgou1.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87ee1dcc5y.fsf@gnus.org> <865ymnrk01.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAGFBMVEUsVXEwZ49Hd5qK a1QLEBJBUVpSha7///93llwQAAAAAWJLR0QHFmGI6wAAAAd0SU1FB+YFAwoGKLjk+AsAAAG5SURB VDjLbZPNbqQwDMcdBD3HiN6Jd8W51WrvU9W5pyvyAEVq3v8R1k4IYYbxJcK//P0ZAMTQwjMzOCLi U/ALnxERkIJLPERyGRSNsY+CHaBetVMQUP05lpEjhhgFjA4PA7A+rp8x9gFyrY1MPpiYtXhv6w2R v+ACLDNi/34FrytLkqChtjvQs9qXgrRJI1TxxBw95JYobZToqJn5809paaSURFW7nDz/LQDHRYjG yiJbQB6MguRavW87GNMZSJJbmRulR+CLYimATp2UqT0C6UR2NfABaqxX5g+BFWyHQoA5gZZcgNbM l6oU9BnQIsNqyQcBOmGZFS15WnWFzGsGOnRN7hrgApSQBbwA9ZO1+SAk2e0O9Nt1zlCxnj/6mpxo BgPZ7cb+5n4fob4BnO12xY36A8iThfkRiN/J5pvCl7ogZwBCO79sCqZarjRuRYbjHBbxL+W+VyCp LVoDgwb74UMxWjA6jw6CgPUA+m8ZfWAmQLdUQVylgfzrORtjR6XSXQE0i2+GIZh7MBIML5tciN0y rw1QmmVTcwQI36b5GXSveh+Gf9vAJ9DRRlDAT38GwVEBEGOL5P1/7KuiJdq5fh8AAAAldEVYdGRh dGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjItMDUtMDNUMTA6MDY6NDArMDA6MDAh1QnxAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOm1vZGlm eQAyMDIyLTA1LTAzVDEwOjA2OjQwKzAwOjAwUIixTQAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: Depeche Mode's _Construction Time Again_: "Told You So" Date: Tue, 03 May 2022 12:33:58 +0200 In-Reply-To: <865ymnrk01.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (Juri Linkov's message of "Mon, 02 May 2022 19:12:46 +0300") Message-ID: <877d72zyzt.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Juri Linkov writes: > I thought that by default Isearch always should be literal, > so the user could search only for plain ', and not to match > its fancy variants. No, I want the default Isearch to fold `' with the fancy variants in these modes. :-) Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: Drew Adams , 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Juri Linkov writes: > I thought that by default Isearch always should be literal, > so the user could search only for plain ', and not to match > its fancy variants. No, I want the default Isearch to fold `' with the fancy variants in these modes. :-) -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 03 10:58:45 2022 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 May 2022 14:58:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40673 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nltzB-0006n8-7Q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 May 2022 10:58:45 -0400 Received: from mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.177.32]:12470) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nltz7-0006my-GZ for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 May 2022 10:58:44 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (m0246630.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.5/8.17.1.5) with ESMTP id 243C2Uaj026110; Tue, 3 May 2022 14:58:40 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; 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Tue, 3 May 2022 14:58:37 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Juri Linkov Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` Thread-Topic: [External] : Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` Thread-Index: AQHYXtlTYOyRmKDwyUOQWTtkvqY72a0NOCWA Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 14:58:37 +0000 Message-ID: References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <87zgk5mqkm.fsf@gnus.org> <86levp6rce.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <8735hxjcqj.fsf@gnus.org> <86fslwxuxe.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87pml0gq1p.fsf@gnus.org> <86bkwjvmwg.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <874k2a4wwl.fsf@gnus.org> <86y1zlgou1.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87ee1dcc5y.fsf@gnus.org> <865ymnrk01.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <877d72zyzt.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <877d72zyzt.fsf@gnus.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 45a224be-18b1-4549-4a4c-08da2d156754 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM6PR10MB3434:EE_ x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 45a224be-18b1-4549-4a4c-08da2d156754 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 May 2022 14:58:37.7332 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: eR7DXzCcXt9Ju6u5Xz/vLVqn2Z4fQ8lUBrV/ZHsd7AkpFkx86OlWpHRUatn7kiHW31kCOj0qFFpSdFGb3rKP/w== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR10MB3434 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.486, 18.0.858 definitions=2022-05-03_06:2022-05-02, 2022-05-03 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2202240000 definitions=main-2205030106 X-Proofpoint-GUID: Sok5VgLQzNw2PXrtguWowHHyqR6bNm20 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: Sok5VgLQzNw2PXrtguWowHHyqR6bNm20 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: "24510@debbugs.gnu.org" <24510@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > I thought that by default Isearch always should be literal, > > so the user could search only for plain ', and not to match > > its fancy variants. >=20 > No, I want the default Isearch to fold `' with the=20 > fancy variants in these modes. :-) Do what you want for your own use. Please read the bug report for what this reporter reported as the problem and suggested solutions. Juri is right, here. For Emacs default behavior, Isearch should do what it does generally. But there should be a simple Isearch binding (at least in places such as Info) that toggles folding of _these particular_ confusables (misguidedly introduced by foisting curly quotes on Info). This toggling should be separate from toggling the more general char-folding. [And see what I suggested about maybe providing feedback when users can't find ` matches etc. There's unfortunately no easy, complete solution to this problem, I'm afraid.] Users should also be able to specify whether, for them, such folding is on by default. IOW, make it easy for users to control this. But don't change Isearch behavior here by default. Yes, unfortunately, that won't help uninitiated users deal with these confusables as well as would folding them by default. But it's saner. And it would be better if the default font, at least for Info and Help, were one that did not confuse these quotes so easily visually. The default, at least on MS Windows, is especially pernicious in this regard. This is just another annoyance/headache caused by Emacs adopting curly quoting everywhere. Emacs has tied itself in knots to confuse users and make their life more difficult in Info and Help, all in the name of becoming more "modern" by changing the brilliant, simple text feature that was `...' to plain old curly quotes. Bad dog. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 03 14:00:07 2022 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 May 2022 18:00:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40989 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nlwog-0001mw-Rj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 May 2022 14:00:07 -0400 Received: from relay2-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.194]:42819) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nlwof-0001lf-7F for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 May 2022 14:00:05 -0400 Received: (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0CF4340006; Tue, 3 May 2022 17:59:57 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <87zgk5mqkm.fsf@gnus.org> <86levp6rce.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <8735hxjcqj.fsf@gnus.org> <86fslwxuxe.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87pml0gq1p.fsf@gnus.org> <86bkwjvmwg.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <874k2a4wwl.fsf@gnus.org> <86y1zlgou1.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87ee1dcc5y.fsf@gnus.org> <865ymnrk01.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <877d72zyzt.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Tue, 03 May 2022 20:29:05 +0300 In-Reply-To: <877d72zyzt.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Tue, 03 May 2022 12:33:58 +0200") Message-ID: <86leviilvy.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: Drew Adams , 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> I thought that by default Isearch always should be literal, >> so the user could search only for plain ', and not to match >> its fancy variants. > > No, I want the default Isearch to fold `' with the fancy variants in > these modes. :-) So the users will have no way to search for ' literally? Or maybe better to add a new Isearch mode that char-folds only `' and enable it only in Help buffers? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 03 14:05:31 2022 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 May 2022 18:05:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41014 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nlwth-0001y6-35 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 May 2022 14:05:31 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:58116) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nlwte-0001xl-TH for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 May 2022 14:05:16 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=klYgT+fuNao6n1VS6N7sritO0FcuOrVfYLa2RTWu3lw=; b=rXV9q2s15+bLmkOb2G0jQN/b2f HCWDs/S11XRkJ6YQz5lpt+eM57W8xSz/nIqNJaX866S6EClRmY4e6DsxTiNuIz//xI0c3rbj/oGOt oSLTZFgMhpyYJY32H2wX48Av3j1RCdIVgKTFVkGV0A1k3i4id7N+cWPD3gNPAcvxpnE0=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nlwtU-0000i2-EC; Tue, 03 May 2022 20:05:06 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Juri Linkov Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <87zgk5mqkm.fsf@gnus.org> <86levp6rce.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <8735hxjcqj.fsf@gnus.org> <86fslwxuxe.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87pml0gq1p.fsf@gnus.org> <86bkwjvmwg.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <874k2a4wwl.fsf@gnus.org> <86y1zlgou1.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87ee1dcc5y.fsf@gnus.org> <865ymnrk01.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <877d72zyzt.fsf@gnus.org> <86leviilvy.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwCAMAAABg3Am1AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAM1BMVEWBgnuSkouspZn9 /f3z8OrXyrdzdG15enJqa2Xf2dS0vt4+GhViXliEdnDKtp6tmHv///8jAvd+AAAAAWJLR0QQlbIN LAAAAAd0SU1FB+YFAxE6LNwJCXwAAAGcSURBVEjHtdaNboQgDABgKNCCOnz/t13Lzw0UiC5bc+oF +WgRNSqlNf9A658dGGMNb7wD7eoZ0EppQKVJtcFnFIMaIA3Sxr0VcWA6dERRC0h/mlP4+kdQgnQB pUPtxgCpjwvoAweAEPKEZeYanwErQHZvgA3mOUjrcCsJOWagxj8B/TcZcAX4KoVtg22UgYbAmLDh 7jPARsyB3fb9uKzDvCT3FU3wu74u3BzsDPSOFciEl4A7mvNSEtaSaAD4JorHbQ5IC2APf9wmvQIG whuQYvA8rMHtXvoFaN8aDwBf1XdALuw7sMwQwsuSomsB5v7T27sH+S76gEcZPilmIITonB0+02Pg YnRQQClmXZKAWEEbTzJQHr0+DyNgY8oQYlNSWYgJgAzOmgGRJkBO+ALAgQBczwGvAG8A+/FbcF5A njSWMmvuDqhhBuwL7YAfgNsgd+B74NFzpJ0cD7BnjJAA+TYy8HVN6hgHhATOBqD0Tv8UeuJvD3bE HyCyFXBGBtZzs+IPEo0qfURwBuR3Yo082sGDg4DIQNryVs5+A3X/NZWE4oh1AAAAJXRFWHRkYXRl OmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIyLTA1LTAzVDE3OjU4OjQ0KzAwOjAwx3e3SwAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkA MjAyMi0wNS0wM1QxNzo1ODo0NCswMDowMLYqD/cAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Eurythmics's _Sweet Dreams (Are Made Of This)_: "Wrap It Up" Date: Tue, 03 May 2022 20:05:03 +0200 In-Reply-To: <86leviilvy.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (Juri Linkov's message of "Tue, 03 May 2022 20:29:05 +0300") Message-ID: <87levitru8.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Juri Linkov writes: >> No, I want the default Isearch to fold `' with the fancy variants in >> these modes. :-) > > So the users will have no way to search for ' literally? Yes, I don't think anybody would want to. But like I said, I'd prefer if it was possible to have this as a minor mode so that people could switch it off (even if they probably won't want to). Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: Drew Adams , 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Juri Linkov writes: >> No, I want the default Isearch to fold `' with the fancy variants in >> these modes. :-) > > So the users will have no way to search for ' literally? Yes, I don't think anybody would want to. But like I said, I'd prefer if it was possible to have this as a minor mode so that people could switch it off (even if they probably won't want to). -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 03 15:23:50 2022 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 May 2022 19:23:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41095 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nly7i-00046o-HU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 May 2022 15:23:50 -0400 Received: from mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.165.32]:17788) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nly7f-00046e-DQ for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 May 2022 15:23:49 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (m0246617.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.5/8.17.1.5) with ESMTP id 243HhiXx018680; Tue, 3 May 2022 19:23:46 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: b1018c80-17f5-4b2b-8b3b-08da2d3a6f2d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 May 2022 19:23:42.2486 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: c9e+X2fTkXWqx4Dz3wt1GICufGWvlijXQdqymxuVKyVUJGsFt4mrpBtjqHZhPZkU1NNsDj1JCXmcpoz9ehzOdQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR10MB4093 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.486, 18.0.858 definitions=2022-05-03_08:2022-05-02, 2022-05-03 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2202240000 definitions=main-2205030121 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: gck-dWabR8S2962XuX0jA30sYm2M7gME X-Proofpoint-GUID: gck-dWabR8S2962XuX0jA30sYm2M7gME X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: "24510@debbugs.gnu.org" <24510@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > >> I thought that by default Isearch always should be literal, > >> so the user could search only for plain ', and not to match > >> its fancy variants. > > > > No, I want the default Isearch to fold `' with the fancy variants in > > these modes. :-) >=20 > So the users will have no way to search for ' literally? No; see my other msgs in the thread about this. Users _absolutely_ need the ability to search for ` and ', as well as to search for ` and left curly, and ' and right curly. This is the problem. We need to give them ways to do everything, easily, and we need to provide reasonable default behavior. I agreed with you that by default Isearch in Info and Help should _not_ fold such confusables. But users need to know that they can easily do that (e.g. a key). And we should I think come up with reasonable ways to help with some feedback when Emacs can guess that maybe the user meant to get folded behavior but didn't, e.g., looked for ` and didn't find any occurrences. Such feedback from guessing needs to be optional - it must not be in-your-face and annoy. > Or maybe better to add a new Isearch mode that char-folds only `' I suggested having an Isearch _key_ (a toggle), not a mode, for just that, as opposed to the more drastic full char-folding. And I suggested having an option to configure the confusables to fold. > and enable it only in Help buffers? No, I think that any such behavior should be configurable, e.g. by an option that lists the modes or buffer-name regexps, to define where to apply it. ___ There are lots of possibilities for trying to deal with all of this, and I don't have a perfect solution (there isn't any, I suspect). It's worth brainstorming etc. ___ Even if we didn't have the catastrophe of the imposition everywhere of curly quotes, we'd have this problem (only __much__ less so) of optionally folding confusables. It merits some reflection and discussion - better on emacs-devel than here, I think. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: ba42d654-642f-4a2b-6554-08da2d3adffe X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 May 2022 19:26:51.5534 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: aU0O5MwvPD5pa2E4dgLeie7De6zFbv4CtH8awKmEbg8r8hBCXBuSN5zvxGZEVunQ8Okx1cT9CetuW28dy/bJsg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR10MB3462 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.486, 18.0.858 definitions=2022-05-03_08:2022-05-02, 2022-05-03 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxlogscore=925 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2202240000 definitions=main-2205030121 X-Proofpoint-GUID: ASLY5KNhHNgsWSd69Bvfde3DQShz5fJV X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: ASLY5KNhHNgsWSd69Bvfde3DQShz5fJV X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: "24510@debbugs.gnu.org" <24510@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > >> No, I want the default Isearch to fold `' with the fancy variants in > >> these modes. :-) > > > > So the users will have no way to search for ' literally? >=20 > Yes, I don't think anybody would want to. That's 100% wrong. Especially in the Emacs and Elisp manuals. Same thing for `. Same thing for _any_ char, no matter how common. > But like I said, I'd prefer > if it was possible to have this as a minor mode so that people could > switch it off (even if they probably won't want to). We don't need a minor mode for this. This is about Isearch. We need a toggle key for it. On the other hand, we could consider whether the same choice/decision to fold should/could affect both Isearch and other things, such as query-replace. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu May 05 12:38:52 2022 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 May 2022 16:38:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46338 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nmeV9-0007eJ-MX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2022 12:38:51 -0400 Received: from relay9-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.199]:40011) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nmeV7-0007e3-UM for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2022 12:38:50 -0400 Received: (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A2ED1FF80A; Thu, 5 May 2022 16:38:42 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <87zgk5mqkm.fsf@gnus.org> <86levp6rce.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <8735hxjcqj.fsf@gnus.org> <86fslwxuxe.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87pml0gq1p.fsf@gnus.org> <86bkwjvmwg.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <874k2a4wwl.fsf@gnus.org> <86y1zlgou1.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87ee1dcc5y.fsf@gnus.org> <865ymnrk01.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <877d72zyzt.fsf@gnus.org> <86leviilvy.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87levitru8.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Thu, 05 May 2022 19:20:01 +0300 In-Reply-To: <87levitru8.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Tue, 03 May 2022 20:05:03 +0200") Message-ID: <86bkwct2ti.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: Drew Adams , 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain >>> No, I want the default Isearch to fold `' with the fancy variants in >>> these modes. :-) >> >> So the users will have no way to search for ' literally? > > Yes, I don't think anybody would want to. But like I said, I'd prefer > if it was possible to have this as a minor mode so that people could > switch it off (even if they probably won't want to). If you are sure about this, here is the simplest way to implement it, and the users can disable it easily in help-mode-hook: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-diff; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline; filename=help-mode-search-default.patch Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit diff --git a/lisp/help-mode.el b/lisp/help-mode.el index 94bd591131..4ad8e36070 100644 --- a/lisp/help-mode.el +++ b/lisp/help-mode.el @@ -414,6 +414,13 @@ help-mode (setq-local tool-bar-map help-mode-tool-bar-map) (setq-local help-mode--current-data nil) + (unless search-default-mode + (setq-local search-default-mode + (lambda (string &optional _lax) + (thread-last + (regexp-quote string) + (replace-regexp-in-string "`" "[`‘]") + (replace-regexp-in-string "'" "['’]"))))) (setq-local bookmark-make-record-function #'help-bookmark-make-record)) diff --git a/lisp/info.el b/lisp/info.el index abfb77b055..7e0d4f646f 100644 --- a/lisp/info.el +++ b/lisp/info.el @@ -4487,6 +4487,14 @@ Info-mode (setq-local isearch-wrap-function #'Info-isearch-wrap) (setq-local isearch-push-state-function #'Info-isearch-push-state) (setq-local isearch-filter-predicate #'Info-isearch-filter) + (unless search-default-mode + (setq-local search-default-mode + (lambda (string &optional _lax) + (thread-last + (regexp-quote string) + (replace-regexp-in-string "`" "[`‘]") + (replace-regexp-in-string "'" "['’]") + (replace-regexp-in-string "\"" "[\"“”]"))))) (setq-local revert-buffer-function #'Info-revert-buffer-function) (setq-local font-lock-defaults '(Info-mode-font-lock-keywords t t)) (Info-set-mode-line) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain PS: ISTR, there was a discussion about supporting simultaneous replacements instead of using thread-last. 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Thu, 5 May 2022 16:44:23 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Juri Linkov , Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` Thread-Topic: [External] : Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` Thread-Index: AQHYYJ6Y51I48qxnTkK8cYH4b8w2T60QfOVg Date: Thu, 5 May 2022 16:44:23 +0000 Message-ID: References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <87zgk5mqkm.fsf@gnus.org> <86levp6rce.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <8735hxjcqj.fsf@gnus.org> <86fslwxuxe.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87pml0gq1p.fsf@gnus.org> <86bkwjvmwg.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <874k2a4wwl.fsf@gnus.org> <86y1zlgou1.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87ee1dcc5y.fsf@gnus.org> <865ymnrk01.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <877d72zyzt.fsf@gnus.org> <86leviilvy.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87levitru8.fsf@gnus.org> <86bkwct2ti.fsf@mail.linkov.net> In-Reply-To: <86bkwct2ti.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 83c2e5cf-00af-4178-68b6-08da2eb682c8 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM6PR10MB3545:EE_ x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 83c2e5cf-00af-4178-68b6-08da2eb682c8 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 May 2022 16:44:23.9287 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: IUN7ElgZ5W4H8MzpidHTlCvxypD5Jb9RbievKgQfPhwm8IJkrxoFvpOw5PeBnRDMWXL/jh3t0tNwAXBE+coIbQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR10MB3545 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.486, 18.0.858 definitions=2022-05-05_06:2022-05-05, 2022-05-05 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=965 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2202240000 definitions=main-2205050115 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: HlO7RBd23vxJTizF0ER3mXk7etH0SbtU X-Proofpoint-GUID: HlO7RBd23vxJTizF0ER3mXk7etH0SbtU X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: "24510@debbugs.gnu.org" <24510@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > >>> No, I want the default Isearch to fold `' with the fancy variants > in > >>> these modes. :-) > >> > >> So the users will have no way to search for ' literally? > > > > Yes, I don't think anybody would want to. But like I said, I'd > > prefer if it was possible to have this as a minor mode so that > > people could switch it off (even if they probably won't want to). >=20 > If you are sure about this, here is the simplest way to implement it, > and the users can disable it easily in help-mode-hook: Please don't do this. Users shouldn't have to fiddle with mode hooks to get or remove this folding. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 06 07:30:34 2022 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2022 11:30:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47267 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nmwAM-0008Ic-EZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2022 07:30:34 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:35950) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nmwAL-0008Bp-Bh for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2022 07:30:33 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=h+jAHAmpvdu1OEvdmxtuSSS4/7HbGm8oOtin95Nqf2c=; b=Yjx6xcA7ypV965U+zZF2pkobz4 VUbUZHvREyv63GNJ//RN5wqTVUYyUqchgU09VsgCTP1Hn4eZ7rho7ZzwE6FsNeagxRG1KbWgh3Dyw v1yJx0PsSEeSlBYNSwnWlEPJ1IkrUOslTHIsNtssVYwXjU3K3bz/emPIHpswYHPSJ8kw=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nmwA7-0005w9-3X; Fri, 06 May 2022 13:30:21 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Juri Linkov Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <87zgk5mqkm.fsf@gnus.org> <86levp6rce.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <8735hxjcqj.fsf@gnus.org> <86fslwxuxe.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87pml0gq1p.fsf@gnus.org> <86bkwjvmwg.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <874k2a4wwl.fsf@gnus.org> <86y1zlgou1.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87ee1dcc5y.fsf@gnus.org> <865ymnrk01.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <877d72zyzt.fsf@gnus.org> <86leviilvy.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87levitru8.fsf@gnus.org> <86bkwct2ti.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAGFBMVEU5MEFBV5OSe3mv S0jgzsGgFi/fqD3////on9Q6AAAAAWJLR0QHFmGI6wAAAAd0SU1FB+YFBgsDNZCJ+pIAAAGpSURB VDjLjZBRcuMwCIbJDexMD1Bh9T1jojx3VDYHWC0ncKv7H6GAZDvO5GEZjwX6gB8BoDaOo/82G6DZ ycDpAcB/gbXJExhgzT0dNR6aPIB2d+7g9Awc9Xo9Btja9hesUXff9QgjvndFSxs2vXAOoYNhBxcA HMM+915xAQxhn3tdYIDjHjXIA5wx5gMICt6YESPzZKqI7UHhDKPeMdtPq9As5vCGEZA9dOyeJzGD NXLSkFXmDjhHhTTHBlDrKG7gQoQO9DpONHfwpS6ZjgItmaREB5gceIVWZxKJoGk40UT6NY2MUxK5 wtVdooJz18hURAhsbPWp0LyOSyTXP5CvNvVESWzeT9bna6f4AdgBzdNsW+CsEgUTxHh3ELVdW8Yk 8hd7he2EpHgxk4EE6V/lip7n8vwlIoUEaq33Wpk/hBLpyT/iZqDWb+ZUVNO8A6h8T6UImbuDxeOk 05tzXzpYrLXaklI5AE0sNwc9o6YGpINKupXbEcgG6PYCqDo9gdZKtV8DkkTuUToCzSxeUZcnoJ3a vLWD0sO6nq6igLaLI+iNX4Am+EhN/RePAOvmkHezkwAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAyMi0w NS0wNlQxMTowMzo1MyswMDowMJ1x3CUAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjItMDUtMDZUMTE6 MDM6NTMrMDA6MDDsLGSZAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: The Cure's _The Top_: "Piggy in the mirror" Date: Fri, 06 May 2022 13:30:18 +0200 In-Reply-To: <86bkwct2ti.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (Juri Linkov's message of "Thu, 05 May 2022 19:20:01 +0300") Message-ID: <87y1zenbjp.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. 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Content preview: Juri Linkov writes: > If you are sure about this, here is the simplest way to implement it, > and the users can disable it easily in help-mode-hook: [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: Drew Adams , 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Juri Linkov writes: > If you are sure about this, here is the simplest way to implement it, > and the users can disable it easily in help-mode-hook: [...] > + (unless search-default-mode > + (setq-local search-default-mode > + (lambda (string &optional _lax) > + (thread-last > + (regexp-quote string) > + (replace-regexp-in-string "`" "[`=E2=80=98]") > + (replace-regexp-in-string "'" "['=E2=80=99]"))))) Thanks; I separated this out into a tiny minor mode, and switched that on in help-mode and info-mode instead. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 06 07:30:37 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2022 11:30:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47270 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nmwAP-0008MJ-MG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2022 07:30:37 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:35966) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nmwAO-0008FO-E3 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2022 07:30:36 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=YP64WMW4Api9JhZUi3FDIht9wzWBKQzlHdjIsfoNaJE=; b=KwdUP+QbAJX04dpxGFPUGJ0rOG ui6t/UCARMeChfCxBBHNTciQ4oOkL9QmOg1th5ymm9nhgNwXGKe4hGokc7Ay3d+j18/zQa+tOHrxn NAvVtQg84115uWENdFv5kMoOo8pjokJUR6LStapLdwHBiReTByAH1E5xdXcctwamz1UM=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nmwAG-0005wK-OZ for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2022 13:30:30 +0200 Date: Fri, 06 May 2022 13:30:28 +0200 Message-Id: <87wneynbjf.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #24510 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: close 24510 29.1 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) close 24510 29.1 quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 06 10:40:51 2022 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2022 14:40:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49384 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nmz8V-0003J1-Ht for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2022 10:40:51 -0400 Received: from mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.177.32]:13848) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nmz8R-0003Ip-43 for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 0860d5e0-5fbe-4755-2968-08da2f6e6641 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 06 May 2022 14:40:43.4488 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: r5rZXiPy3b47K60ZWUj8zzcOJUjMBLQgP6dKFbckwiouAidj20AzdQ5XWyZJzjxwa8I0fsfztSG4f4LlnkmTeg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR1001MB2089 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.486, 18.0.858 definitions=2022-05-06_04:2022-05-05, 2022-05-06 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=623 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2202240000 definitions=main-2205060080 X-Proofpoint-GUID: STAok0H0p_6IQgHxELuynOwvbsMcia9D X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: STAok0H0p_6IQgHxELuynOwvbsMcia9D X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: "24510@debbugs.gnu.org" <24510@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) PiBUaGFua3M7IEkgc2VwYXJhdGVkIHRoaXMgb3V0IGludG8gYSB0aW55IG1pbm9yIG1vZGUsIA0K PiBhbmQgc3dpdGNoZWQgdGhhdCBvbiBpbiBoZWxwLW1vZGUgYW5kIGluZm8tbW9kZSBpbnN0ZWFk Lg0KDQpUb28gYmFkLg0K From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 06 11:35:24 2022 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2022 15:35:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49534 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nmzzH-00070z-QX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2022 11:35:23 -0400 Received: from relay6-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.198]:33975) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nmzzF-00070h-V8 for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2022 11:35:22 -0400 Received: (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BD377C0007; Fri, 6 May 2022 15:35:13 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <87zgk5mqkm.fsf@gnus.org> <86levp6rce.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <8735hxjcqj.fsf@gnus.org> <86fslwxuxe.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87pml0gq1p.fsf@gnus.org> <86bkwjvmwg.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <874k2a4wwl.fsf@gnus.org> <86y1zlgou1.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87ee1dcc5y.fsf@gnus.org> <865ymnrk01.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <877d72zyzt.fsf@gnus.org> <86leviilvy.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87levitru8.fsf@gnus.org> <86bkwct2ti.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87y1zenbjp.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Fri, 06 May 2022 18:32:13 +0300 In-Reply-To: <87y1zenbjp.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Fri, 06 May 2022 13:30:18 +0200") Message-ID: <867d6yit3u.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: Drew Adams , 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> + (unless search-default-mode >> + (setq-local search-default-mode >> + (lambda (string &optional _lax) >> + (thread-last >> + (regexp-quote string) >> + (replace-regexp-in-string "`" "[`‘]") >> + (replace-regexp-in-string "'" "['’]"))))) > > Thanks; I separated this out into a tiny minor mode, and switched that > on in help-mode and info-mode instead. I noticed that Info also contains double quotation marks, so these could be added as well: (replace-regexp-in-string "\"" "[\"“”]") Also this improves tests: diff --git a/test/lisp/subr-tests.el b/test/lisp/subr-tests.el index 6bcac2a5eb..8f3ee66e00 100644 --- a/test/lisp/subr-tests.el +++ b/test/lisp/subr-tests.el @@ -1065,6 +1065,9 @@ test-local-set-state (let ((state (buffer-local-set-state global 10 local 20 unexist 30))) + (should (= global 10)) + (should (= local 20)) + (should (= unexist 30)) (buffer-local-restore-state state) (should (= global 1)) (should (= local 2)) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 06 13:58:09 2022 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2022 17:58:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49724 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nn2DR-0000oK-Ka for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2022 13:58:09 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:39694) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nn2DQ-0000nY-09 for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2022 13:58:08 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=LzdomJTy8kuHbp3Kyouy8XklTHdNtUXoed+lnjhDXr4=; b=gBu9bSUN38q7vpTzhYPvXhRjTM oBPTs40EpSC9w7gte0fRDjlcPu446i44FwN41W2/XRnxpPiG1u5a1mupdAoSDnnZc3IzfXBZpPI0z wJyBfV5wNhbxdTcGF0mU+pBh0wsNIV3YU9W/XzTNEbvQJYPKgmfUZtuo87u2Kw33vMj8=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nn2DF-0001Gw-3J; Fri, 06 May 2022 19:57:59 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Juri Linkov Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <87zgk5mqkm.fsf@gnus.org> <86levp6rce.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <8735hxjcqj.fsf@gnus.org> <86fslwxuxe.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87pml0gq1p.fsf@gnus.org> <86bkwjvmwg.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <874k2a4wwl.fsf@gnus.org> <86y1zlgou1.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87ee1dcc5y.fsf@gnus.org> <865ymnrk01.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <877d72zyzt.fsf@gnus.org> <86leviilvy.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87levitru8.fsf@gnus.org> <86bkwct2ti.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87y1zenbjp.fsf@gnus.org> <867d6yit3u.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Now-Playing: The Smiths's _Complete (6): Strangeways, Here We Come_: "Last Night I Dreamt That Somebody Loved Me" Date: Fri, 06 May 2022 19:57:54 +0200 In-Reply-To: <867d6yit3u.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (Juri Linkov's message of "Fri, 06 May 2022 18:32:13 +0300") Message-ID: <87zgjuh7bx.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Juri Linkov writes: > I noticed that Info also contains double quotation marks, > so these could be added as well: > > (replace-regexp-in-string "\"" "[\"“”]") > > Also this improves tests: Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: Drew Adams , 24510@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Juri Linkov writes: > I noticed that Info also contains double quotation marks, > so these could be added as well: > > (replace-regexp-in-string "\"" "[\"=E2=80=9C=E2= =80=9D]") > > Also this improves tests: Makes sense; please go ahead and push. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 06 19:20:46 2022 Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2022 23:20:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50074 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nn7FP-0003RY-7P for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2022 19:20:46 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33926) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nn7FN-0003RL-Mm for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2022 19:20:30 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:56878) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nn7FI-0001kt-5C; Fri, 06 May 2022 19:20:24 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=PCkdz0dHwGsc4q3fp1nobhbiQSPHpwDEy7TjZtNXcbA=; b=J0+Jh1E0ytLO QblKI+uDwwbMzNwSlFZWVtxOBI+QmOHxz4ocx+3O2Qi+JvQNpDEFCMUIpDBBWHFpkS2ZcVV0XfEpA h1qR4HTmh4mD1YJi0E6tLknci7S8ThmN1WFP6ugBHwIP/S9FTCvHkdJa3NVuu3XRO9RF4Tkk2Ej4w DpS6gsR5DWowiuO3+pW30Qfg4jCAE2aRSI7Neu6R181S4Is2+Z2OMXqzqkZ4g0cRXoPdAr5uydx3O OAB9n1dhZoOGPRMtby7X5DdWGV/d63ratj8wpC8SJskSYUtFdC85r5qTT6b7M7+IZITfXibax91ZG 0pPXYBIVPczACErw35tsdg==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nn7FH-00028y-TZ; Fri, 06 May 2022 19:20:23 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Thu, 5 May 2022 16:44:23 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <87zgk5mqkm.fsf@gnus.org> <86levp6rce.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <8735hxjcqj.fsf@gnus.org> <86fslwxuxe.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87pml0gq1p.fsf@gnus.org> <86bkwjvmwg.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <874k2a4wwl.fsf@gnus.org> <86y1zlgou1.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87ee1dcc5y.fsf@gnus.org> <865ymnrk01.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <877d72zyzt.fsf@gnus.org> <86leviilvy.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87levitru8.fsf@gnus.org> <86bkwct2ti.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Message-Id: Date: Fri, 06 May 2022 19:20:23 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24510 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 24510@debbugs.gnu.org, juri@linkov.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] I definitely wnat to be able to search literally for each kind of quote character. Folding of quotes might also be a useful feature, but don't make it difficult to search for them literally. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Sat Jun 21 05:03:14 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2022 11:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator