From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:47:40 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#24379 <24379@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#24379 <24379@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: [PATCH] lisp/bindings.el: Bind (yank-pop -1) to M-Y Reply-To: bug#24379 <24379@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2025 10:47:40 +0000 retitle 24379 [PATCH] lisp/bindings.el: Bind (yank-pop -1) to M-Y reassign 24379 emacs submitter 24379 Nils Berg severity 24379 wishlist tag 24379 wontfix patch thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 06 09:28:54 2016 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2016 13:28:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50986 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bhGQo-0005nX-6b for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 09:28:54 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:37612) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bhGQm-0005nH-MC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 09:28:52 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bhGQg-0006A0-Rc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 09:28:47 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,HTML_MESSAGE, T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:35241) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bhGQg-00069p-OU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 09:28:46 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56794) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bhGQe-0005YR-BY for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 09:28:45 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bhGQc-00068S-Dy for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 09:28:43 -0400 Received: from mail-qk0-x229.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400d:c09::229]:33801) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bhGQc-000685-9Q for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 09:28:42 -0400 Received: by mail-qk0-x229.google.com with SMTP id t7so217094292qkh.1 for ; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 06:28:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=4wyaIs//epDtBZaPU3LeApvAO7tKM2NsIfKKiBMOHI0=; b=HYRYS8JH5xXq8O4sVU2mVdMNDsxarEaOUqteZAtUr77xLi8PBlhFbOQqnCAl2Q9Ut1 Nc/bAm9zCjPLGWpcxlNH4dR+nQx8uaUJyA6ObYHtxVAqVPQ4IEgA/jEIhjm/tfnDPo+X d9vM2r431fwu4WdqZysMcvSinAbsy7/0eRogoAMmByrCTsNcgI7raQmyKBQb6iGUb99b iF7yXFMTfH/zo5AmLaEdEw5fuTB5/TyEzP3lY88qNBSIreybh1OMVYrt1RK8lFCJ1Sno 71iWPmFqDLap694qMX4WB/fq7pHdU255ZUEYozYBx68vOsJWCj27/GkYZExdbbSZ/J2H 6jtg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=4wyaIs//epDtBZaPU3LeApvAO7tKM2NsIfKKiBMOHI0=; b=EWLWdwt8qj5WK0Y1ZzBovpGKfsLlxWpKPT0t69+GDu1+yez3dFWeIdY6tzg+78h1Sm 6I0gsEleAHSkcXd1y7ZnwEALo2oL3u0v9Qn7mKS+uD4I/DDcF1tNsRRscnNqT95xd/Bv XK0aMQE++GsoNzZZzkKE7POeLbNguK/aOBv4eWPhpDBXwfsigYz1bOBMY1fEFVGS3a9o ddZ4o4oPVG0cFNy5kE2EP/21gsDOtlgoQ/bBOxMnjIwjFtkMPdM2MiXMpJjaFvT8ZI2c nMdeGs5bjVrvsG6S11PK5xyo/am0AxjGITv+MUNzhWgmdfoyao9t0qAPqs4TGTf/WZx9 ZlLQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AE9vXwOn70zMIzG3ZsBeatg91np+t2LVrXTJGpmoAuAmAV43QQva5S/p7B9zzb5KY31Fyu26ejHjUA7BelmePqSO X-Received: by 10.55.82.4 with SMTP id g4mr47265289qkb.220.1473168521259; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 06:28:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.237.37.103 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Sep 2016 06:28:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Nils Berg Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2016 15:28:40 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: [PATCH] lisp/bindings.el: Bind (yank-pop -1) to M-Y To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114a845a67db2f053bd6c6f9 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) --001a114a845a67db2f053bd6c6f9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 It's extremely useful to be able to traverse the kill ring in both directions, especially when there's many entries in it. M-Y was the most intuitive binding for this to me, but one could also argue in favor of C-M-y. --- lisp/bindings.el | 1 + 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+) diff --git a/lisp/bindings.el b/lisp/bindings.el index c13f4b1..42efd05 100644 --- a/lisp/bindings.el +++ b/lisp/bindings.el @@ -889,6 +889,7 @@ if `inhibit-field-text-motion' is non-nil." (define-key esc-map "\C-w" 'append-next-kill) (define-key global-map "\C-y" 'yank) (define-key esc-map "y" 'yank-pop) +(define-key esc-map "Y" (lambda () (interactive) (yank-pop -1))) ;; (define-key ctl-x-map "a" 'append-to-buffer) --001a114a845a67db2f053bd6c6f9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It's extremely useful to be able to traverse the = kill ring in both
directions, especially when there's many en= tries in it.

M-Y was the most intuitive binding fo= r this to me, but one
could also argue in favor of C-M-y.

---
=C2=A0lisp/bindings.el | 1 +
=C2= =A01 file changed, 1 insertion(+)

diff --git a/lis= p/bindings.el b/lisp/bindings.el
index c13f4b1..42efd05 100644
--- a/lisp/bindings.el
+++ b/lisp/bindings.el
@= @ -889,6 +889,7 @@ if `inhibit-field-text-motion' is non-nil."
=C2=A0(define-key esc-map "\C-w" 'append-next-kill)
=C2=A0(define-key global-map "\C-y" 'yank)
= =C2=A0(define-key esc-map "y" 'yank-pop)
+(define-k= ey esc-map "Y" (lambda () (interactive) (yank-pop -1)))
=C2=A0
=C2=A0;; (define-key ctl-x-map "a" 'append-= to-buffer)
=C2=A0
--001a114a845a67db2f053bd6c6f9-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 06 10:34:10 2016 Received: (at 24379) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2016 14:34:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51400 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bhHRt-0007XZ-O7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 10:34:10 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:25951) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bhHRn-0007X0-4E for 24379@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 10:34:04 -0400 Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u86EXqS6005103 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2016 14:33:53 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u86EXqUD020655 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2016 14:33:52 GMT Received: from abhmp0006.oracle.com (abhmp0006.oracle.com [141.146.116.12]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u86EXplW029432; Tue, 6 Sep 2016 14:33:51 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <301ed440-5d6e-4fc9-9fb9-c1991ed9c457@default> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2016 07:33:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Nils Berg , 24379@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: RE: bug#24379: [PATCH] lisp/bindings.el: Bind (yank-pop -1) to M-Y References: In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-Spam-Score: -3.4 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24379 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.4 (---) > It's extremely useful to be able to traverse the kill ring > in both directions, especially when there's many entries in it. It may be. But users already have several ways to do this. > M-Y was the most intuitive binding for this to me, but one > could also argue in favor of C-M-y. FWIW, I hope that neither such binding is added by default. It is trivial for any user to add such a binding, if desired. Many users already have their own yanking (or other) commands bound to such keys. (Just google `emacs "C-M-y"' and `emacs "M-y"'.) In my case, for example, `M-y' is `icicle-yank-pop-commands', and `C-M-y' is `secondary-dwim'. ____ icicle-yank-pop-commands is an interactive compiled Lisp function in `icicles-cmd1.el'. It is bound to M-insert, M-y. (icicle-yank-pop-commands &optional ARG) For more information check the manuals. `yank-pop', `yank-pop-secondary', or `icicle-completing-yank'. Which of these is used depends on the previous command, as follows: * If the previous command was a yank-secondary command, then `yank-pop-secondary'. * Else if the previous command was a yank command (i.e. using the kill ring), then `yank-pop'. * Else `icicle-completing-yank'. In the last case (`icicle-completing-yank'), during completion you can use: * `C-,' to sort the candidates to yank in different ways (repeat) * `S-delete' to remove a candidate entry from the selection ring * `C-S-return' to copy a candidate to the other selection ring ____ secondary-dwim is an interactive compiled Lisp function in `second-sel.el'. It is bound to C-M-y, menu-bar edit secondary-dwim. (secondary-dwim ARG) For more information check the manuals. Do-What-I-Mean with the secondary selection. Prefix arg: None: Yank secondary. Zero: Select secondary as region. > 0: Move secondary to region. < 0: Swap region and secondary. Details: No prefix arg: Yank the secondary selection at point. Move point to the end of the inserted text. Leave mark where it was. Zero arg: Select the secondary selection and pop to its buffer. Non-zero arg: Move the secondary selection to this buffer's region. Negative arg: Also go to where the secondary selection was and select it as the region. That is, swap the region and the secondary selection. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 06 11:14:02 2016 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2016 15:14:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51460 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bhI4U-00006j-21 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 11:14:02 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:42543) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bhI4N-00006Q-Ob for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 11:13:56 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bhI4E-00006B-HX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 11:13:46 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:53662) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bhI4E-000067-EG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 11:13:42 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33436) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bhI49-0004Cy-KM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 11:13:42 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bhI44-0008UW-AO for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 11:13:36 -0400 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([217.72.192.73]:53706) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bhI44-0008UG-0Q for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 11:13:32 -0400 Received: from [18.189.118.169] ([18.189.118.169]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue102) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LyVBG-1b1qvd0B7O-015rKA for ; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 17:13:31 +0200 Subject: Re: bug#24379: [PATCH] lisp/bindings.el: Bind (yank-pop -1) to M-Y To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org References: From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= Message-ID: Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2016 11:13:23 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="sAoJfQm81kdChSDf8GvglUVC2Se2XKhoH" X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:7ch19hmIdp81p7O2rmOsxzW5TfYwKnstpgjQgrf7sr1Q7mRLRWh CPC24S0xrbOG6fue+zrd4gI7f7S7EF6lCYQ8BK1S/lKbjePOuSkg6kRhmFOVwdEMIlI4rVi 1TtlCEi2u24iFiA9HYk5Ta68p15NkBZRQ2u/AijuE0pY5mzcpYfCy2mZ+vuUTpq6JgItynx 30B8tq3i2zOYjx6gUlnuA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:ss8zDrdoWes=:WCq44QHIY/Cas3DbQQRu/p enbpEXa54o4Ib8f/T+t3jdWSSg7qn+IsFRxKByaeyH6DwDP37YmpaPy6HlKiPUQf7Daxoa6yX cdl+fUk+r5OQvk0scjytUxbx5KwQ/gySYP9X+q4kLbFQlEH/E6G4IivO7unbUYsopt+crLOJH waQ+bvQXbuHh1u6wyfqsHiQA9USrPsMDa3P/fg8iDjP0oUfWgzhXBopQnPsIOkD72jAMPrIKy DoGaPflmO1J3hYWRu6DzSySTa/qpwn+Sl2WgU/yWfXijFXbEnigGnW8s3CEakdyOdS/Z3m7x0 21RKO8UzkLyAdVqH9HnTJGo4Io+SZsJaozc1TIJo+bqjG65PQTysIdDqpi7SGmpnJ3zKaodH8 i2bglBNSPuNrL8E8R0g8huAdrTnR19hWSixg6bTixwrmia0jsO8GIcW9cTSYNYapQsMcF7/Cs VUQmKMnq+GZzCrD9a600GBhTpV6Tqr5NztEGOOcjIJLyJ/G6f91/HbvePwomHtNbupvjP+K10 R2tjyC7/EOHQlvc1SV1DFIyZ6mHcoKkrvieologXvN3i/XSEqoHQVVCRGY7u8wumJ9YDi11/a mjXOJr1TZFF7Sz+unaMF3YhRgb7eP/w4ueXof098szy/V0fg7K8znaDKlZbPFvPxhhZPXCFfJ Bo/4CkNTBtbhLlTWd1oiA1oTVLgyK8jE9PnrmAQi5i0lqUJovhW/jGNsaiPrhVrhB1CQ= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --sAoJfQm81kdChSDf8GvglUVC2Se2XKhoH Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="cU2FarePIomwxtT8L4QdvFdh0wcHRn7q8"; protected-headers="v1" From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#24379: [PATCH] lisp/bindings.el: Bind (yank-pop -1) to M-Y References: In-Reply-To: --cU2FarePIomwxtT8L4QdvFdh0wcHRn7q8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Did you try M-- M-y (that is meta-minus, meta-y)? Cl=C3=A9ment. On 2016-09-06 09:28, Nils Berg wrote: > It's extremely useful to be able to traverse the kill ring in both > directions, especially when there's many entries in it. >=20 > M-Y was the most intuitive binding for this to me, but one > could also argue in favor of C-M-y. >=20 > --- > lisp/bindings.el | 1 + > 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+) >=20 > diff --git a/lisp/bindings.el b/lisp/bindings.el > index c13f4b1..42efd05 100644 > --- a/lisp/bindings.el > +++ b/lisp/bindings.el > @@ -889,6 +889,7 @@ if `inhibit-field-text-motion' is non-nil." > (define-key esc-map "\C-w" 'append-next-kill) > (define-key global-map "\C-y" 'yank) > (define-key esc-map "y" 'yank-pop) > +(define-key esc-map "Y" (lambda () (interactive) (yank-pop -1))) > =20 > ;; (define-key ctl-x-map "a" 'append-to-buffer) > =20 --cU2FarePIomwxtT8L4QdvFdh0wcHRn7q8-- --sAoJfQm81kdChSDf8GvglUVC2Se2XKhoH Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJXzt0UAAoJEPqg+cTm90wjUcUP/3Jo3kzS9JMTMmhSROULl1ZB fKTrKEPyXJWjyEa05Uu1dce83LSdbpK08Vo4QJZRXTpznJvwrjjQ3f+BLmX+zom9 YzJsZK3tGqVs/QKwpOT3WpmPlzDTTtgGnQVjLFGaOd0cCpCivRFzzjjMddCxH/kj ffxXxnj21tIdzQvZnpfDzxeAgBhn0xlWb7UanQh8/VQ8TrEeLnvfLPaa5TZ7/dh7 HFHj5mj9zsrZiaAccM6N5iTa89XiYXkpjB8x0EU1tbInXDsPaOlb3FC3tLm0Knq/ KO/nDiLalX+zHbdwsB94RGWteUne7oEio+sZIi5KTfNHva/kuMv7o8IFseQkcTup MY7I7PcOdF0JyuOLKQdcgWdJPI+V8ey7gDE1YqQct8FHgh3P24hLCgokDdd84va6 2dW6h+miqCg/t4ef9Q0+9lByI4BlDM3c/cUQT2/99z8kMi0MQ9gXAqW5S8xl1zzM xnFSh/SlVXSJu0mLPoYFu/HfB3cAGfpfY9nWo+eEzfXxypkl671f+XhNJH+voW/r eRHHDlOoLWMf1ppjEgabQz78WpvMXm/cXfMNz7nrkE0L5jlJ5823PV23Iz/QR+eJ hI0AmVRU2R1hwFYPxJm/OYUX8nVmYhZbw5JpTkcsnw3xX/CbbVjVa1JWtn3hNSpF xqV0TZKiZ8hXxe9gZSMQ =d+SI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --sAoJfQm81kdChSDf8GvglUVC2Se2XKhoH-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 06 11:15:32 2016 Received: (at 24379) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2016 15:15:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51464 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bhI5v-0000A3-2a for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 11:15:32 -0400 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([217.72.192.74]:53448) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bhI5o-00009l-4D for 24379@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 11:15:26 -0400 Received: from [18.189.118.169] ([18.189.118.169]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue104) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MTP9j-1bX4vM3w6Z-00SNlT; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 17:15:08 +0200 Subject: Re: bug#24379: [PATCH] lisp/bindings.el: Bind (yank-pop -1) to M-Y To: Drew Adams , Nils Berg , 24379@debbugs.gnu.org References: <301ed440-5d6e-4fc9-9fb9-c1991ed9c457@default> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= Message-ID: Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2016 11:15:03 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <301ed440-5d6e-4fc9-9fb9-c1991ed9c457@default> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="PBVfqBhJhOA5koPpdENDFkP90eD3G1KtN" X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:cT/YY5U7d9m6XNVGtfw420Us9N3e/ROPg8xjXhGsoHXH2QYA1S4 1RmXpwzDuygdW/ImE/SetENlUah7RggKkXRCuDQnWXWANev3lPytyo7qI0//pG+K2TnbAv+ nk9iZDqA777zgBQuw6CBc+Cl5bNx6R0W2VJPKw1BQ5soB7AipJQPBNTSgDqStEQPaN9JVCR pSS4YEBaemmYnpmOUJbQA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:0fJxNjsr8f8=:aUxQDyOnzKjzSdqLEANdG3 t8ehhWIdx4w3CI4uiWvyNH24LFcFV6w0BBeZxYwfQTYHA83uwfIhGeBFpMXH5ac69KJLbMXTW +vE6/pdy9wWECXjReblT9xYP5cXlpYVJ2clEp6xVrEtIkUWlRZiOP5+pEmFly38I1tX6vyqW6 oXGGpMbGKUE367BYan9irbI8CY0MVRxPNfbapNrlCKOXvBC3ASfCTD+mxRr2JLP8Et6lTAaGM KX3l6P0ZC5z9cAY4i5VHagzmMdwrvrKnveoD12Xk7nEj+nbiyTpTFltFH5ARD+UngT04KPpc8 wX5n4UkpOdj0kQUnuxz3XX7PjWtEu0QOGBs2cEQ2ZUlzobnnAKBH0i2e2ydNSvwjZTHjkI+s4 /zxjJllTVyqyf8iAMGQzu5pbul5TU+K9r+ra9lcaHoi6JZCHUwgex3tuB2Ik1H1xN09cITNXt bMHwHEW/P4nM/WKDn09XCc0X2JyG+V6UEGK1JRQOYS0t03BSaC9RdmQ8/lT/ok1Ud/IQIaCpo Z2DS4niyLHBVSBd/mWVZRymHCVZ1iFZ+PonKysmfGGu8Oh2gkXuDpGxzgmDBYOxY4XUs6hO76 clEw5Co1VooP0khbe72tTifDQLIxec6cPrxRnKmPZx+WTgN/0/M4zKzO/BzAJjf/tmqB4NqIN riYlrItWuBwOVfl4NuTwj4zb/3uhlzyfmbkF97MEdTAm2finFbWs0M3q0YSjQFa7NN24= X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On 2016-09-06 10:33, Drew Adams wrote: > Many users already have their own yanking (or other) commands > bound to such keys. (Just google `emacs "C-M-y"' and > `emacs "M-y"'.) How would a new binding affect these users? 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The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On 2016-09-06 10:33, Drew Adams wrote: > Many users already have their own yanking (or other) commands > bound to such keys. (Just google `emacs "C-M-y"' and > `emacs "M-y"'.) How would a new binding affect these users? [...] Content analysis details: (3.4 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [217.72.192.74 listed in list.dnswl.org] 2.4 RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM RBL: SORBS: sender is a spam source [217.72.192.74 listed in dnsbl.sorbs.net] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (clement.pit[at]gmail.com) 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --PBVfqBhJhOA5koPpdENDFkP90eD3G1KtN Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="pDsR0G4tKpjJho1rrKP4JQW3tbOkFCsdO"; protected-headers="v1" From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= To: Drew Adams , Nils Berg , 24379@debbugs.gnu.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#24379: [PATCH] lisp/bindings.el: Bind (yank-pop -1) to M-Y References: <301ed440-5d6e-4fc9-9fb9-c1991ed9c457@default> In-Reply-To: <301ed440-5d6e-4fc9-9fb9-c1991ed9c457@default> --pDsR0G4tKpjJho1rrKP4JQW3tbOkFCsdO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2016-09-06 10:33, Drew Adams wrote: > Many users already have their own yanking (or other) commands > bound to such keys. (Just google `emacs "C-M-y"' and > `emacs "M-y"'.) How would a new binding affect these users? > In my case, for example, `M-y' is `icicle-yank-pop-commands', > and `C-M-y' is `secondary-dwim'. M-y is already bound to yank-pop in plain Emacs, so I'm not sure I follow= your point :/ Cl=C3=A9ment. --pDsR0G4tKpjJho1rrKP4JQW3tbOkFCsdO-- --PBVfqBhJhOA5koPpdENDFkP90eD3G1KtN Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJXzt13AAoJEPqg+cTm90wjlp4P/j8qoj9zxK/LHxPBsqqJsKjN mNgXPcwiDaX5nssiTxd6Myh2y498YFEPuOKrn0bhC3Nc4DJ/kYvGj327klFt6NSC reWlW0o2wJhWy1biP9+vH+5g34V+FhO0uKfDzaCpzzPJEi139Cl2KtW4/krwwQHa 0K0SgEwJPX917FXJXlZ1F79kW2STDIRwhEs++4oGULHOy4zBk2v6xMLFgf8JMdDV dhRbpOwSHyZJRt1XR2FfJM8vf8k7je6FociEQvl3EfzZhqWvzNsJUJXvGSv+kjoF NsSeke9eVM19MD5w5ippzal5DGC7L3nZNPVQ9LWZr9aHAoE/O6t6V5G1uXy/vOge 5xJOVldJzdAjnJOpL71FQd0t2j7B+g3mfFs7vMk+s5pV9zWH8UWsFY+V3tYc++mO p0Dq5WOxQ44oTqCxh327Yu1M1pkAJ5ghzgHusSstl38m9wSku6S3iEuaLqBpQoCr ISfefra0ZXsf8W/mrk+Ye8CO56QHOaNVIBidU8o9WdY1JoMJCCWSqRzohfsqStWV lZqz4XYWd13x0p6/1UqNO51T502+VvpaRKqWCmBSjIVxKdx6Pz8ie13kGamDaelp 6rn/gET5gAHTU9RtIkAe5h95iCEZyzHW4HYq5uiN/x6WzZFI3y/XB7PKuTXCEOXo X5nNTb9WNsdvNrEl3DNg =U2Ez -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --PBVfqBhJhOA5koPpdENDFkP90eD3G1KtN-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 06 11:36:42 2016 Received: (at 24379) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2016 15:36:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51511 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bhIQP-0000jP-Q5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 11:36:42 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:42546) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bhIQJ-0000j4-MV for 24379@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 11:36:36 -0400 Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u86FaOdr009495 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2016 15:36:25 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u86FaOdZ023476 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2016 15:36:24 GMT Received: from abhmp0006.oracle.com (abhmp0006.oracle.com [141.146.116.12]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u86FaI7v032525; Tue, 6 Sep 2016 15:36:24 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2016 08:36:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: =?utf-8?B?Q2zDqW1lbnQgUGl0LS1DbGF1ZGVs?= , Nils Berg , 24379@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: RE: bug#24379: [PATCH] lisp/bindings.el: Bind (yank-pop -1) to M-Y References: <301ed440-5d6e-4fc9-9fb9-c1991ed9c457@default> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-Spam-Score: -3.4 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24379 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.4 (---) > > Many users already have their own yanking (or other) commands > > bound to such keys. (Just google `emacs "C-M-y"' and > > `emacs "M-y"'.) >=20 > How would a new binding affect these users? Users can always override any key bindings, of course. But many users are hesitant to override default bindings, for whatever reasons. This suggested default binding is really unnecessary, IMO. It is trivial for someone to add it, if they like. =20 > > In my case, for example, `M-y' is `icicle-yank-pop-commands', > > and `C-M-y' is `secondary-dwim'. >=20 > M-y is already bound to yank-pop in plain Emacs, so I'm not > sure I follow your point :/ Yes, and my `M-y' is only turned on in Icicle minor mode (but which I am always in). You can drop that example, if you like, and just google for `emacs "M-y"' if you would like to see what other users do with `M-y'. My point was the _general_ one that I stated: (1) Many users have their own uses of `M-y' and `C-M-y'. And (2) adding this particular binding is not helpful - it is trivial for anyone to add it, if they really want it. There are not so many good keys available. Arguments for binding more keys globally (not for some mode) by default, in particular, should be strong arguments. They should not proceed _only_ from: * the-key-is-not-bound-by-default or * here-is-a-useful-command-that-is-not-bound-by-default There should be a more compelling reason to add a new default key binding, IMHO. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 06 11:42:57 2016 Received: (at 24379) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2016 15:42:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51538 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bhIWX-0000wb-5K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 11:42:57 -0400 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.17.13]:61004) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bhIWV-0000wL-3X for 24379@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 11:42:55 -0400 Received: from [18.189.118.169] ([18.189.118.169]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue101) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LxO7W-1b0jTV2TN4-016vQu; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 17:42:43 +0200 Subject: Re: bug#24379: [PATCH] lisp/bindings.el: Bind (yank-pop -1) to M-Y To: Drew Adams , Nils Berg , 24379@debbugs.gnu.org References: <301ed440-5d6e-4fc9-9fb9-c1991ed9c457@default> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= Message-ID: <35566841-27d9-670e-0a77-d83563d8b35b@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2016 11:42:36 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ow1EvPTDd0lNpqu8C0KlFJP4ehKxXOP8Q" X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:9xGQswjuwTN0d6lKWaw7+vX0lXyApn+FuS6XFc7TbOp85uDclWQ 4SlmxEM8FeMlbyhWrczyQOGBxTFHdcHCgDfu5lpntBfMETLoAVRVGudtRIZIeTqRQVg1EXk wy/UV+BK91qhRDGHzOqycu8dbWsm/u7keb7G2Lw8D2om0E4v8jf3mTMxHxJ49vIj4M9dYOd ZkGgYLOj2cvQVmJNg23XA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:C6RlJ7vJ4iI=:6IGQiTSAi69gCKjjBhfq/S lkX+8ICJ24pws/m8dUlNrFSfyO6w4/byg93AaDQPF3IM779vAMOHPjU/mfCOt+9XEIdrOgFS9 w2fmeY3kfE+J/kAwNJQFapK6kroRXc61nyEFxHVhcfzJXc5s2DxLxbvbgrDXFZN22IeNwyEDP QfUCoEr23njb61a71tSCuBv31yLUtRtPDQxCB2c8m/yRtQgL08x9AwIEIGytYGK/fIaYma98W IN6kmX8HeL4cZsJpjbBvlkBZghIiPaphRi5KKeBR90rUHuCNlqtehTk57AeSK2luM0hnkYw7L qV1wei51hx9ENzRmA4V9LmiX0llHa7ChhKkYmxysqfs9QNXzhqeWbrHxhvogIZSRw1AO4XVlv Ghr5Z1/bSbZUt4M8qlPiH0J9+T5bVq8aD+yrgdK/AivB8mWdwuMyWnZ0uWl1Dy0zBWDWvAbea CFXF5hL4N+KHUKI9JHYPv6HzdBrfC/AR/h/LaoWX8Am9ruz8zBCqML5Bjjl7NazQDriXdE8zw oP4a+7WMVlI5hu0LsTCtM1t8o7+CjBr8ecQX/dzDJoF0Of62VYl8DjUD3oEO2fm6iu/mAG49T +xDHJxoCrkyEdADlnDas0Jkf5F/61q9MUzTOpPvlQljEkhSxUnTXmo25UH0VvRQS/9YumNjBJ 2S/htCeYZbdpbL2+doJT584aMrSHu5XDX+oe/ZN7MEkyhqcuGZBgxxHokgLUCinrRAzA= X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On 2016-09-06 11:36, Drew Adams wrote: > Users can always override any key bindings, of course. > But many users are hesitant to override default bindings, > for whatever reasons. > > … > > Yes, and my `M-y' is only turned on in Icicle minor mode (but > which I am always in). You can drop that example, if you like, > and just google for `emacs "M-y"' if you would like to see what > other users do with `M-y'. [...] Content analysis details: (3.4 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (clement.pit[at]gmail.com) 2.4 RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM RBL: SORBS: sender is a spam source [212.227.17.13 listed in dnsbl.sorbs.net] 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [212.227.17.13 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2) [212.227.17.13 listed in wl.mailspike.net] X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24379 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On 2016-09-06 11:36, Drew Adams wrote: > Users can always override any key bindings, of course. > But many users are hesitant to override default bindings, > for whatever reasons. > > … > > Yes, and my `M-y' is only turned on in Icicle minor mode (but > which I am always in). You can drop that example, if you like, > and just google for `emacs "M-y"' if you would like to see what > other users do with `M-y'. [...] Content analysis details: (3.4 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [212.227.17.13 listed in list.dnswl.org] 2.4 RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM RBL: SORBS: sender is a spam source [212.227.17.13 listed in dnsbl.sorbs.net] -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2) [212.227.17.13 listed in wl.mailspike.net] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (clement.pit[at]gmail.com) 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --ow1EvPTDd0lNpqu8C0KlFJP4ehKxXOP8Q Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="fOLmwhUooWE1L3TdEC4TgiPGWSlDOpjqg"; protected-headers="v1" From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= To: Drew Adams , Nils Berg , 24379@debbugs.gnu.org Message-ID: <35566841-27d9-670e-0a77-d83563d8b35b@gmail.com> Subject: Re: bug#24379: [PATCH] lisp/bindings.el: Bind (yank-pop -1) to M-Y References: <301ed440-5d6e-4fc9-9fb9-c1991ed9c457@default> In-Reply-To: --fOLmwhUooWE1L3TdEC4TgiPGWSlDOpjqg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2016-09-06 11:36, Drew Adams wrote: > Users can always override any key bindings, of course. > But many users are hesitant to override default bindings, > for whatever reasons. > > =E2=80=A6 > > Yes, and my `M-y' is only turned on in Icicle minor mode (but > which I am always in). You can drop that example, if you like, > and just google for `emacs "M-y"' if you would like to see what > other users do with `M-y'. I'm having trouble reconciling these two statements: on the one hand peop= le don't like overriding existing bindings, but on the other hand many pe= ople override the existing M-y binding? > My point was the _general_ one that I stated: (1) Many users > have their own uses of `M-y' and `C-M-y'. And (2) adding this > particular binding is not helpful - it is trivial for anyone > to add it, if they really want it. I don't understand. All bindings are trivial to add. That doesn't make an= y of them less helpful. --fOLmwhUooWE1L3TdEC4TgiPGWSlDOpjqg-- --ow1EvPTDd0lNpqu8C0KlFJP4ehKxXOP8Q Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJXzuPxAAoJEPqg+cTm90wjARQP/RPi/4D1sXyZpzHwB2zZJOvL UGcjlRysji/MoplbyFMsoLJx0zLYqc2S3DN0KryQkExxh7Wc5bn9By1TeDFk/yV4 GMkHXDEELJ9y2aUV1Ik0U5BCdhoVnT8Ki+IKgDFIF5e9lq+CVeWv8+Qms1MJXYfU Kun9r8xYC68BRn5gYDJgVgABHP4J4TkPEn3Wn1NzggZZSJDRPxz5XwSNHVXsplsH 4VzXzmMWQxni/OszsipqA/mXWZD2iKaUX5F1sx+NX92Pv+HxYNtO0YZqBRu5VJCz BJYrhNhIRk3nlw4XeamwBoTFzgovTCIjbWo+AcuoaLU1rVDcdT+aqhkZ1aOMcAJH gLoU3S6Vn7t5ZQZ3w38D8XvRvj6nimdledaojyMMCZfpprQMjzAKOnDcwpnntZ+D si1MwKBR/uZ+ERluI52irOpgnOJjeiKR+Dw+spfA4iKIZGds8eAMl/6d1BTvSQU0 bM0YrusO6KsReoQmb6gWWSp5zMIA+jTLAtEQbN1UhEcxDGMFkemrUXrr+XAsJC4E RIieIEWRqnBulkPPbSscrpYEoIKOlFE780Y1EkK3HX1b6/S2q689QiBGC5GxY/XB sE1U2hojrdPNGMzB3aG7eIohq87ixqqNsDBHyeRYsNj2VixqdgHO8i/ujqV6IFPU 52vzVP0n1QhfHd5vEjve =Wpnz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ow1EvPTDd0lNpqu8C0KlFJP4ehKxXOP8Q-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 06 11:58:59 2016 Received: (at 24379) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2016 15:58:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51546 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bhIm2-0002vh-QD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 11:58:59 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:24765) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bhIm1-0002vV-Uw for 24379@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 11:58:58 -0400 Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u86Fwp2H012063 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2016 15:58:51 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u86FwpbB005171 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2016 15:58:51 GMT Received: from abhmp0006.oracle.com (abhmp0006.oracle.com [141.146.116.12]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u86FwjO0013493; Tue, 6 Sep 2016 15:58:50 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <2685aa54-ed6f-40c5-848e-de2529c41582@default> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2016 08:58:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: =?utf-8?B?Q2zDqW1lbnQgUGl0LS1DbGF1ZGVs?= , Nils Berg , 24379@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: RE: bug#24379: [PATCH] lisp/bindings.el: Bind (yank-pop -1) to M-Y References: <301ed440-5d6e-4fc9-9fb9-c1991ed9c457@default> <35566841-27d9-670e-0a77-d83563d8b35b@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <35566841-27d9-670e-0a77-d83563d8b35b@gmail.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-Spam-Score: -3.4 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24379 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.4 (---) > > Users can always override any key bindings, of course. > > But many users are hesitant to override default bindings, > > for whatever reasons. ... > > Yes, and my `M-y' is only turned on in Icicle minor mode (but > > which I am always in). You can drop that example, if you like, > > and just google for `emacs "M-y"' if you would like to see what > > other users do with `M-y'. >=20 > I'm having trouble reconciling these two statements: on the one hand > people don't like overriding existing bindings, but on the other hand > many people override the existing M-y binding? Maybe you're having trouble because you're trying too hard to argue. ;-) Many users do override default bindings. And many do not. In any case, the proposal was about `M-Y', which is not bound by default. > > My point was the _general_ one that I stated: (1) Many users > > have their own uses of `M-y' and `C-M-y'. And (2) adding this > > particular binding is not helpful - it is trivial for anyone > > to add it, if they really want it. >=20 > I don't understand. All bindings are trivial to add. That doesn't make an= y > of them less helpful. It's a trivial command, which is not hard for a user to discover or consider binding. And as you yourself pointed out, `M-- M-y' does the same thing. You're trying too hard to pick a fight, I'm afraid. Do _you_ think `M-Y' should be bound by default to the suggested command? If so, please present some supporting arguments. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 14 05:43:05 2016 Received: (at 24379) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Sep 2016 09:43:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59135 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bk6ie-0004tc-V2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Sep 2016 05:43:05 -0400 Received: from mail-qt0-f174.google.com ([209.85.216.174]:35596) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bk6id-0004t8-52 for 24379@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Sep 2016 05:43:03 -0400 Received: by mail-qt0-f174.google.com with SMTP id 93so3745051qtg.2 for <24379@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 14 Sep 2016 02:43:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=e6cUmwb4iuUZDCFF4FpBimw1+Dzrv6WUnkJAUzqOBGE=; b=FjeY/2YwAL1ReK6/LWgby0iobexoKwTIEYbUAZIjjX7Vn8U63d8C8/M6JfZcZKZtQq ukVvgSQb502w6R8mUqof4sNCQ68yyPrZZrFXNSx9pvchJFpNrrjpkRAYB5YaSrCEApZL ld+6olvw1vrFMy0Bh7Y+7qkVf0qXTlQeLMmzncP6TsNqOjhLt+zStyu7xwTcE7ar3hWE ulJqEnNTT1l0lD6/ePW/YkasXGssPz7GTpY7FFnbURPSb+D3mnGDwiGY3iIE0vWCjVfk HNTyQFppKyORcAqh5NQ8bGcG2k3knAqpFpkKOK1eqFPAwgCago/HEmVlFV8LzgEc5xwa Ln3A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=e6cUmwb4iuUZDCFF4FpBimw1+Dzrv6WUnkJAUzqOBGE=; b=iJKa+Pe0/1XIWxWzTWdosOksKbFbHI4pbNuS2nbeTvdUlQwo8M8OZHAEk1ZUOk7nqy wAUvIJ19U+kj2o1M+OJx5kfcW/PPF9VTb2udVbcWlVc005EakgrnH25jatJyje3hDPre e9pnZuzN5xC9viMLbUPcKcHwNGub2Lae4oaslZapUV0sFgJEv/l0aNgmZaXGySo4WQea cgLULsjj5IhoJXnGHKHwRpI4tPvuB5Miv/bTeLTAcYX5qsbLKjb1CYgvK4rsTRNz5ONt g9YoTGySv3rApgf6S91PjywDrdrvVh2Ofkat0ipCkyrTZ+GOyioKHDAvADZ3jhWg9+8h /wOA== X-Gm-Message-State: AE9vXwPcO5nEO40lnM9WDYSN57oukA+uAtqKQuVAzXF8KJMmPpDNH2CzN5+S66aB2Dn6NrjV0jiMZMVCuLvYFWeC X-Received: by 10.237.35.184 with SMTP id j53mr1805563qtc.28.1473846177655; Wed, 14 Sep 2016 02:42:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.200.47.165 with HTTP; Wed, 14 Sep 2016 02:42:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2685aa54-ed6f-40c5-848e-de2529c41582@default> References: <301ed440-5d6e-4fc9-9fb9-c1991ed9c457@default> <35566841-27d9-670e-0a77-d83563d8b35b@gmail.com> <2685aa54-ed6f-40c5-848e-de2529c41582@default> From: Nils Berg Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2016 11:42:57 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#24379: [PATCH] lisp/bindings.el: Bind (yank-pop -1) to M-Y To: Drew Adams Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113a2800dfbd5b053c748dda X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24379 Cc: =?UTF-8?B?Q2zDqW1lbnQgUGl0LS1DbGF1ZGVs?= , 24379@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) --001a113a2800dfbd5b053c748dda Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Some healthy discussion here, so let me preface this by saying I appreciate all of you working to keep the default bindings useful and not excessive. That said, I still feel there should be a single binding for (yank-pop -1). Here's why: First, all of the other commands that traverse something (that I can think of) have an opposite bound to an equally convenient combination. C-n/C-p and C-f/C-b, C-v/M-v, C-s/C-r are some examples off the top of my head. Of course 'M-- M-y' works, but that's like saying 'M-- C-n' does the same thing as C-p. (As a side note, I'll admit I didn't actually know/remember M-- is a shorthand for 'C-u -1'. That does make the common case of overshooting the item you want by 1 a lot less painful.) Second, I fully agree with Cl=C3=A9ment that just because a command is triv= ial, it's automatically unhelpful to bind it. Again, see C-n/C-p. And lastly, if a user has a custom binding for M-Y or C-M-y (I'm not dead set on either), that will still prevail. I don't see why they'd be any more reluctant to override those than M-y, which you said lots of people do. It's pretty hard to google "M-y", much less "M-Y", without Google deciding I'm actually looking for "my", so I'm going to trust you on that. So that's my 2 Cents. If you're still unconvinced, feel free to close this :) On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 5:58 PM, Drew Adams wrote: > > > Users can always override any key bindings, of course. > > > But many users are hesitant to override default bindings, > > > for whatever reasons. > ... > > > Yes, and my `M-y' is only turned on in Icicle minor mode (but > > > which I am always in). You can drop that example, if you like, > > > and just google for `emacs "M-y"' if you would like to see what > > > other users do with `M-y'. > > > > I'm having trouble reconciling these two statements: on the one hand > > people don't like overriding existing bindings, but on the other hand > > many people override the existing M-y binding? > > Maybe you're having trouble because you're trying too hard to > argue. ;-) > > Many users do override default bindings. And many do not. > > In any case, the proposal was about `M-Y', which is not bound > by default. > > > > My point was the _general_ one that I stated: (1) Many users > > > have their own uses of `M-y' and `C-M-y'. And (2) adding this > > > particular binding is not helpful - it is trivial for anyone > > > to add it, if they really want it. > > > > I don't understand. All bindings are trivial to add. That doesn't make > any > > of them less helpful. > > It's a trivial command, which is not hard for a user to discover > or consider binding. And as you yourself pointed out, `M-- M-y' > does the same thing. > > You're trying too hard to pick a fight, I'm afraid. > > Do _you_ think `M-Y' should be bound by default to the suggested > command? If so, please present some supporting arguments. > --001a113a2800dfbd5b053c748dda Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Some healthy discussion here, so let me preface this = by saying I appreciate all of you working to keep the default bindings usef= ul and not excessive.

That said, I still feel ther= e should be a single binding for (yank-pop -1). Here's why:
<= br>
First, all of the other commands that traverse something (tha= t I can think of) have an opposite bound to an equally convenient combinati= on.
C-n/C-p and C-f/C-b, C-v/M-v, C-s/C-r are some examples off t= he top of my head.

Of course 'M-- M-y' wor= ks, but that's like saying 'M-- C-n' does the same thing as C-p= .=C2=A0
(As a side note, I'll admit I didn't actually kno= w/remember M-- is a shorthand for 'C-u -1'. That does make the comm= on case of overshooting the item you want by 1 a lot less painful.)

Second, I fully agree with=C2=A0Cl=C3=A9ment that jus= t because a command is trivial, it's automatically unhelpful to bind it= . Again, see C-n/C-p.

And lastly, if a user has a = custom binding for M-Y or C-M-y (I'm not dead set on either), that will= still prevail.
I don't see why they'd be any more reluct= ant to override those than M-y, which you said lots of people do.
It's pretty hard to google "M-y", much less "M-Y",= without Google deciding I'm actually looking for "my", so I&= #39;m going to trust you on that.

So that's my= 2 Cents. If you're still unconvinced, feel free to close this :)
=

On Tue, Sep= 6, 2016 at 5:58 PM, Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> = wrote:
> > Users c= an always override any key bindings, of course.
> > But many users are hesitant to override default bindings,
> > for whatever reasons.
...
> > Yes, and my `M-y' is only turned on in Icicl= e minor mode (but
> > which I am always in).=C2=A0 You can drop that example, if you li= ke,
> > and just google for `emacs "M-y"' if you would like= to see what
> > other users do with `M-y'.
>
> I'm having trouble reconciling these two statements: on the one ha= nd
> people don't like overriding existing bindings, but on the other h= and
> many people override the existing M-y binding?

Maybe you're having trouble because you're trying too hard t= o
argue. ;-)

Many users do override default bindings.=C2=A0 And many do not.

In any case, the proposal was about `M-Y', which is not bound
by default.

> > My point was the _general_ one that I stated: (1) Many users
> > have their own uses of `M-y' and `C-M-y'.=C2=A0 And (2) a= dding this
> > particular binding is not helpful - it is trivial for anyone
> > to add it, if they really want it.
>
> I don't understand. All bindings are trivial to add. That doesn= 9;t make any
> of them less helpful.

It's a trivial command, which is not hard for a user to discover=
or consider binding.=C2=A0 And as you yourself pointed out, `M-- M-y' does the same thing.

You're trying too hard to pick a fight, I'm afraid.

Do _you_ think `M-Y' should be bound by default to the suggested
command?=C2=A0 If so, please present some supporting arguments.

--001a113a2800dfbd5b053c748dda-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 25 07:37:36 2019 Received: (at 24379) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jun 2019 11:37:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58780 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hfjlY-0005vQ-H9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:37:36 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]:47350) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hfjlW-0005vE-Ll for 24379@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:37:35 -0400 Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=stories) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hfjlQ-0007W6-Tj; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:37:31 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Nils Berg Subject: Re: bug#24379: [PATCH] lisp/bindings.el: Bind (yank-pop -1) to M-Y References: Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:37:28 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Nils Berg's message of "Tue, 6 Sep 2016 15:28:40 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Nils Berg writes: > It's extremely useful to be able to traverse the kill ring in both > directions, especially when there's many entries in it. > > M-Y was the most intuitive binding for this to me, but one > could al [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24379 Cc: 24379@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Nils Berg writes: > It's extremely useful to be able to traverse the kill ring in both > directions, especially when there's many entries in it. > > M-Y was the most intuitive binding for this to me, but one > could also argue in favor of C-M-y. As Cl=C3=A9ment said, this is already on `M-- M-y', which I think makes more sense... but in the common case, I think most people just hit `undo' to get back to the previous yanks. In any case, I don't think an additional keystroke is warranted, and I'm closing this bug report. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 25 07:37:40 2019 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jun 2019 11:37:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58783 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hfjlb-0005vg-Rc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:37:40 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]:47364) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hfjla-0005vY-9p for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:37:38 -0400 Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=stories) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hfjlX-0007WF-OO for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:37:37 +0200 Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:37:35 +0200 Message-Id: To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #24379 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 24379 wontfix close 24379 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 24379 wontfix close 24379 quit From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:47:40 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:24:10 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator