GNU bug report logs -
#24197
Removing lisp/play from standard Emacs package
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Reported by: Otso Rajala <ojrajala <at> gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 15:44:01 UTC
Severity: wishlist
Tags: wontfix
Done: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Bug is archived. No further changes may be made.
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:
bug#24197
; Package
emacs
.
(Wed, 10 Aug 2016 15:44:01 GMT)
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Otso Rajala <ojrajala <at> gmail.com>
:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to
bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
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(Wed, 10 Aug 2016 15:44:02 GMT)
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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Emacs is primarily used as a text editor. Toys shipped in lisp/play directory
are fun, no question about that. Do they belong into core disribution of Emacs
is another question.
Problems:
1) They increase package size.
2) Their existence clutters M-x <tab> autocomplete lists: example M-x bu <tab>
has all things buffer, but also shows bubbles and butterfly, hardly useful
during editing process.
3) Tools > Games is a bit confusing: games are not tools by definition.
4) Help > Psychotherapist is toy in documentation menu.
Solution:
1) Make these toys in lisp/play optionally available from
elpa.gnu.org/packages, but do not ship them by default within
Emacs.
Advantage of solution:
1) All problems go away
2) Simple lisp game sources now easily accessible right from common browser
for fun & inspiration without having to download 56M tar.gz editor with them.
3) Fair towards other toys, considering sokoban and wpuzzle are there but don't
ship by default.
- Otso
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bug#24197
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(Wed, 10 Aug 2016 16:08:02 GMT)
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Message #8 received at 24197 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> From: Otso Rajala <ojrajala <at> gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 16:43:13 +0300
>
> Solution:
> 1) Make these toys in lisp/play optionally available from
> elpa.gnu.org/packages, but do not ship them by default within
> Emacs.
>
> Advantage of solution:
> 1) All problems go away
> 2) Simple lisp game sources now easily accessible right from common browser
> for fun & inspiration without having to download 56M tar.gz editor with them.
> 3) Fair towards other toys, considering sokoban and wpuzzle are there but don't
> ship by default.
Disadvantage: you lose me as Emacs developer, because Emacs without
Tetris and Psychotherapist is not worth its bits for me.
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(Wed, 10 Aug 2016 17:07:01 GMT)
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Message #11 received at 24197 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
On 2016-08-10, at 15:43, Otso Rajala <ojrajala <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> Emacs is primarily used as a text editor. Toys shipped in lisp/play directory
> are fun, no question about that. Do they belong into core disribution of Emacs
> is another question.
>
> Problems:
> 1) They increase package size.
> 2) Their existence clutters M-x <tab> autocomplete lists: example M-x bu <tab>
> has all things buffer, but also shows bubbles and butterfly, hardly useful
> during editing process.
How am I supposed to do any serious coding without M-x butterfly???
> 3) Tools > Games is a bit confusing: games are not tools by definition.
Games are tools for solving problems with the developer's mood.
> 4) Help > Psychotherapist is toy in documentation menu.
That is clearly a mistake - psychotherapy is Serious Business.
> Advantage of solution:
> 1) All problems go away
This can also be accomplished with M-x doctor. No need to tamper with
Emacs distro.
> 2) Simple lisp game sources now easily accessible right from common browser
> for fun & inspiration without having to download 56M tar.gz editor with them.
But in order to have a browser (eww), I have to download the editor anyway.
> 3) Fair towards other toys, considering sokoban and wpuzzle are there but don't
> ship by default.
Ah, I've got you here! How much did the authors of sokoban and wpuzzle
pay you? ;-)
> - Otso
SNCR,
--
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University
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(Wed, 10 Aug 2016 18:40:02 GMT)
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Message #14 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
On 2016-08-10 09:43, Otso Rajala wrote:
> 3) Fair towards other toys, considering sokoban and wpuzzle are there but don't
> ship by default.
I agree. Let's ship these too by default. Are they in ELPA?
:)
[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, attachment)]
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(Wed, 10 Aug 2016 20:32:02 GMT)
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Message #17 received at 24197 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
>>>>> Otso Rajala <ojrajala <at> gmail.com> writes:
> Emacs is primarily used as a text editor. Toys shipped in lisp/play
> directory are fun, no question about that. Do they belong into core
> disribution of Emacs is another question.
> Problems: 1) They increase package size.
For less than 1 MiB (uncompressed.) Compare to, say, lisp/org
and lisp/cedet (which together take about 10% of lisp/) – and
those aren’t used by every Emacs user out there, either.
> 2) Their existence clutters M-x <tab> autocomplete lists: example M-x
> bu <tab> has all things buffer, but also shows bubbles and butterfly,
> hardly useful during editing process.
Indeed. But there’s a simple workaround:
(fset 'butterfly nil)
(fset 'bubbles nil)
It’s also possible to exclude unwanted lisp/ subdirectories from
load-path; for example:
(require 'cl) ; Emacs 24.5
(setq load-path
(apply 'list
"~/elisp" "~/elisp/hacks"
;; Exclude directories holding unwanted packages:
(let ((blacklist "/\\(calc\\|cedet\\|erc\\|mh-e\\|org\\)$"))
(remove-if (lambda (dir) (string-match-p blacklist dir))
load-path))))
However, while this prevents accidental (auto)loading of the
packages of no interest to the specific user, this does /not/ by
itself remove the respective autoloads themselves. The latter
could be accomplished with the following (though this seems a
tad expensive):
(mapatoms
(lambda (sym)
(let* ((fn (symbol-function sym))
(lib (and (autoloadp fn) (cadr fn))))
(when lib
(condition-case v
(find-library-name lib)
(error
(fset sym nil)))))))
[…]
> Advantage of solution: 1) All problems go away
Old ones go. New ones come.
[…]
--
FSF associate member #7257 np. Across the Stars — Pražský Filmový Orchestr
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(Thu, 11 Aug 2016 05:28:01 GMT)
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Message #20 received at 24197 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
I suggest renaming the game commands to start with `play-'.
That will avoid interference with completion.
Aside from that, it is just a matter of adding a tiny amount
to the size of the distro, and that's not enough reason to change anything.
--
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.
Added tag(s) wontfix.
Request was from
Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
to
control <at> debbugs.gnu.org
.
(Fri, 12 Aug 2016 00:52:02 GMT)
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bug closed, send any further explanations to
24197 <at> debbugs.gnu.org and Otso Rajala <ojrajala <at> gmail.com>
Request was from
Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
to
control <at> debbugs.gnu.org
.
(Sun, 15 Apr 2018 23:10:04 GMT)
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bug archived.
Request was from
Debbugs Internal Request <help-debbugs <at> gnu.org>
to
internal_control <at> debbugs.gnu.org
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(Mon, 14 May 2018 11:24:09 GMT)
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This bug report was last modified 7 years and 93 days ago.
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