GNU bug report logs - #24077
VS: bug in MAN page for data command

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Lars Issing Sauer" <lsa <at> logos.dk>
To: <bug-coreutils <at> gnu.org>
Subject: VS: bug in MAN page for data command
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 09:13:17 +0200

Hi,

 I found that the MAN for "date" has wrong representation of "month" and "minutes".

 Command: date [-u|--utc|--universal] [MMDDhhmm[[CC]YY][.ss]]

 According to the description "%M" is minutes and "%m" is month... but 
 the command takes "%M" as month and "%m" as minutes ;)

http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man1/date.1.html

Best regards
 
Lars Sauer
Development Engineer, M.Sc. EE
E-mail: lsa <at> logos.dk
Phone (+45) 20 67 53 41


-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) [mailto:mtk.manpages <at> gmail.com] 
Sendt: 25. juli 2016 20:13
Til: Lars Issing Sauer
Cc: linux-man; Casper Thorø Vium Pedersen; Jeppe Andreasen
Emne: Re: bug in MAN page for data command

Hello Lars

On 25 July 2016 at 17:21, Lars Issing Sauer <lsa <at> logos.dk> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I found that the MAN for "date" has wrong representation of "month" and "minutes".
>
> Command: date [-u|--utc|--universal] [MMDDhhmm[[CC]YY][.ss]]
>
> According to the description "%M" is minutes and "%m" is month... but 
> the command takes "%M" as month and "%m" as minutes ;)
>
> http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man1/date.1.html

This manual page is maintained by another project. See the following link for info about how to report bugs for that project:

http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man1/date.1.html#COLOPHON

Cheers,

Michael

Message #10 received at 24077-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Paul Eggert <eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu>
To: Lars Issing Sauer <lsa <at> logos.dk>, 24077-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#24077: VS: bug in MAN page for data command
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 09:07:07 +0200

On 07/26/2016 09:13 AM, Lars Issing Sauer wrote:
>   According to the description "%M" is minutes and "%m" is month... but
>   the command takes "%M" as month and "%m" as minutes ;)

Sorry, I don't see any bug here. "date +%M" outputs the current number 
of minutes past the hour, and "date +%m" outputs the current month 
number, and that is what is documented.

Message #13 received at 24077 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Bernhard Voelker <mail <at> bernhard-voelker.de>
To: 24077 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu, lsa <at> logos.dk
Subject: Re: bug#24077: VS: bug in MAN page for data command
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 10:20:08 +0200

On 07/27/2016 09:07 AM, Paul Eggert wrote:
> On 07/26/2016 09:13 AM, Lars Issing Sauer wrote:
>>   According to the description "%M" is minutes and "%m" is month... but
>>   the command takes "%M" as month and "%m" as minutes ;)
> 
> Sorry, I don't see any bug here. "date +%M" outputs the current number of minutes
> past the hour, and "date +%m" outputs the current month number, and that is what is documented.

Hi Paul,

I think it's regarding the MM vs. mm in the usage string:

  $ src/date --help | grep MM
    or:  src/date [-u|--utc|--universal] [MMDDhhmm[[CC]YY][.ss]]
__________________________________________^^____^^

  $ src/date -u 072710132016
  src/date: cannot set date: Operation not permitted
  Wed Jul 27 10:13:00 UTC 2016

The MM/mm here is inconsistent compared to the %M/%m modifiers.

Usage | % mod | meaning
------+-------+--------
 MM   | %m    | month
 mm   | %M    | minute

Do you agree?

Have a nice day,
Berny

Message #16 received at 24077-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Pádraig Brady <P <at> draigBrady.com>
To: Bernhard Voelker <mail <at> bernhard-voelker.de>, 24077-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu, lsa <at> logos.dk
Subject: Re: bug#24077: VS: bug in MAN page for data command
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 10:13:42 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On 27/07/16 09:20, Bernhard Voelker wrote:
> On 07/27/2016 09:07 AM, Paul Eggert wrote:
>> On 07/26/2016 09:13 AM, Lars Issing Sauer wrote:
>>>   According to the description "%M" is minutes and "%m" is month... but
>>>   the command takes "%M" as month and "%m" as minutes ;)
>>
>> Sorry, I don't see any bug here. "date +%M" outputs the current number of minutes
>> past the hour, and "date +%m" outputs the current month number, and that is what is documented.
> 
> Hi Paul,
> 
> I think it's regarding the MM vs. mm in the usage string:
> 
>   $ src/date --help | grep MM
>     or:  src/date [-u|--utc|--universal] [MMDDhhmm[[CC]YY][.ss]]
> __________________________________________^^____^^
> 
>   $ src/date -u 072710132016
>   src/date: cannot set date: Operation not permitted
>   Wed Jul 27 10:13:00 UTC 2016
> 
> The MM/mm here is inconsistent compared to the %M/%m modifiers.
> 
> Usage | % mod | meaning
> ------+-------+--------
>  MM   | %m    | month
>  mm   | %M    | minute
> 
> Do you agree?

Yes it's more consistent to match this input representation
with the output +FORMATs.  I.E. use: [mmddHHMM[[CC]yy][.SS]]
It's more natural to use uppercase for larger quantities,
but being consistent with +FORMAT trumps that IMHO.

Fixed in the attached.

thanks
Pádraig

[date-synopsis.patch (text/x-patch, attachment)]

Message #19 received at 24077-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Bernhard Voelker <mail <at> bernhard-voelker.de>
To: Pádraig Brady <P <at> draigBrady.com>,
 24077-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org, eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu, lsa <at> logos.dk
Subject: Re: bug#24077: VS: bug in MAN page for data command
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 12:41:36 +0200

On 07/27/2016 11:13 AM, Pádraig Brady wrote:
> Subject: [PATCH] doc: make date(1) synopsis consistent with output +FORMAT

+1

Thanks & have a nice day,
Berny

Message #22 received at 24077-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Lars Issing Sauer" <lsa <at> logos.dk>
To: "Paul Eggert" <eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu>,
	<24077-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Subject: SV: bug#24077: VS: bug in MAN page for data command
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 09:12:01 +0200

Hi Paul,

Maybe im mistaken but I still think there is a bug.

The command is:

date [-u|--utc|--universal] [MMDDhhmm[[CC]YY][.ss]]

Where its MM is supposed to be the Month.. is this not correct?

When you scroll down, and look for what %M is.. is says..

%m = month (01..12)
%M = minute (00..59)

Which is not correct according to the command description.

Regards 
Lars

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: Paul Eggert [mailto:eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu] 
Sendt: 27. juli 2016 09:07
Til: Lars Issing Sauer; 24077-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Emne: Re: bug#24077: VS: bug in MAN page for data command

On 07/26/2016 09:13 AM, Lars Issing Sauer wrote:
>   According to the description "%M" is minutes and "%m" is month... but
>   the command takes "%M" as month and "%m" as minutes ;)

Sorry, I don't see any bug here. "date +%M" outputs the current number of minutes past the hour, and "date +%m" outputs the current month number, and that is what is documented.

Message #25 received at 24077-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Paul Eggert <eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu>
To: Pádraig Brady <P <at> draigBrady.com>,
 Bernhard Voelker <mail <at> bernhard-voelker.de>, 24077-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 lsa <at> logos.dk
Subject: Re: bug#24077: VS: bug in MAN page for data command
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 14:39:56 -0400

On 07/27/2016 05:13 AM, Pádraig Brady wrote:
>
> It's more natural to use uppercase for larger quantities,
> but being consistent with +FORMAT trumps that IMHO.
>

No, as it's now inconsistent with similar usage elsewhere, e.g., 
'touch', 'NEWS'. Please revert, as this change merely introduces new 
confusion. The %h and %m etc. syntax is different from that of POSIX 
'date' strings, that's all.

Message #28 received at 24077-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eric Blake <eblake <at> redhat.com>
To: Paul Eggert <eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu>, Pádraig Brady
 <P <at> draigBrady.com>, Bernhard Voelker <mail <at> bernhard-voelker.de>,
 24077-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org, lsa <at> logos.dk
Subject: Re: bug#24077: VS: bug in MAN page for data command
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 14:11:06 -0600

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On 07/27/2016 12:39 PM, Paul Eggert wrote:
> On 07/27/2016 05:13 AM, Pádraig Brady wrote:
>>
>> It's more natural to use uppercase for larger quantities,
>> but being consistent with +FORMAT trumps that IMHO.
>>
> 
> No, as it's now inconsistent with similar usage elsewhere, e.g.,
> 'touch', 'NEWS'. Please revert, as this change merely introduces new
> confusion. The %h and %m etc. syntax is different from that of POSIX
> 'date' strings, that's all.

As a compromise, can we mention that MMDDhhmm[[CCYY][.ss]] output can be
produced by the %m%d%H%M%C%y.%S format, as an additional line of text?

-- 
Eric Blake   eblake redhat com    +1-919-301-3266
Libvirt virtualization library http://libvirt.org

[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, attachment)]

Message #31 received at 24077-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Paul Eggert <eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu>
To: Eric Blake <eblake <at> redhat.com>, Pádraig Brady
 <P <at> draigBrady.com>, Bernhard Voelker <mail <at> bernhard-voelker.de>,
 24077-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org, lsa <at> logos.dk
Subject: Re: bug#24077: VS: bug in MAN page for data command
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 22:27:39 -0700

Eric Blake wrote:
> As a compromise, can we mention that MMDDhhmm[[CCYY][.ss]] output can be
> produced by the %m%d%H%M%C%y.%S format, as an additional line of text?

Unfortunately that format does not work when the century is outside the range 00-99.

Whatever we do, we should do consistently in 'date' and 'touch' and etc.

The POSIX spec uses all lower case, which is confusing in a different way but is 
at least standardized.

Message #34 received at 24077 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Pádraig Brady <P <at> draigBrady.com>
To: Paul Eggert <eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu>, Eric Blake <eblake <at> redhat.com>,
 Bernhard Voelker <mail <at> bernhard-voelker.de>, 24077 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 lsa <at> logos.dk
Subject: Re: bug#24077: VS: bug in MAN page for data command
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 12:35:55 +0100

tag 24077 wontfix
stop

On 28/07/16 06:27, Paul Eggert wrote:
> Eric Blake wrote:
>> As a compromise, can we mention that MMDDhhmm[[CCYY][.ss]] output can be
>> produced by the %m%d%H%M%C%y.%S format, as an additional line of text?
> 
> Unfortunately that format does not work when the century is outside the range 00-99.

:)

> Whatever we do, we should do consistently in 'date' and 'touch' and etc.

> The POSIX spec uses all lower case, which is confusing in a different way but is 
> at least standardized.

Well it just a representation of placeholders for numbers.
There's nothing "standard" about it.
IMHO as long as it's unambiguous it's fine.

Though I think overall ambiguity is reduced here,
I don't feel strongly about it, so will revert.

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