From unknown Fri Jun 20 07:12:50 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#24051 <24051@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#24051 <24051@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 24.5; doc of `external-debugging-output' Reply-To: bug#24051 <24051@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 14:12:50 +0000 retitle 24051 24.5; doc of `external-debugging-output' reassign 24051 emacs submitter 24051 Drew Adams severity 24051 minor tag 24051 fixed patch thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 22 12:01:44 2016 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jul 2016 16:01:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33934 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bQctU-0007Xx-Hh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Jul 2016 12:01:44 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:55039) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bQctS-0007Xi-AV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Jul 2016 12:01:42 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bQctM-0002wA-IY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Jul 2016 12:01:37 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,XPRIO autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:49469) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bQctM-0002w6-Eo for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Jul 2016 12:01:36 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45987) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bQctL-0007sm-76 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Jul 2016 12:01:36 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bQctE-0002t8-Rd for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Jul 2016 12:01:34 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:45166) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bQctE-0002sY-KP for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Jul 2016 12:01:28 -0400 Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u6MG1PPE017339 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2016 16:01:25 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u6MG1Ple028827 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2016 16:01:25 GMT Received: from abhmp0016.oracle.com (abhmp0016.oracle.com [141.146.116.22]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u6MG1O5S027385 for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2016 16:01:25 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 09:01:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.5; doc of `external-debugging-output' X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6744.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) 1. Please consider documenting this in the Elisp manual, e.g., where we document `print'. 2. The doc string should enclose "print" in `...': Write CHARACTER to stderr. You can call `print' while debugging emacs, and pass it this function to make it write to the debugging output. In GNU Emacs 24.5.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2015-04-11 on LEG570 Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --prefix=3D/c/usr --host=3Di686-pc-mingw32' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 24 12:01:14 2016 Received: (at 24051) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jul 2016 16:01:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35990 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bRLq6-0007y3-7A for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 12:01:14 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:49682) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bRLq4-0007xq-3y for 24051@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 12:01:12 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=N5zATRRE3Gn7e4+xNMMsWy9CAZE2tD5BsqrvLB/MWx8=; b=TvqmOI6PkLr2TzipfansYTfNFa nlB6qvi/J2I0vXIKipzxeE3PEusCWlpxkSAs/lYOWuVbcVB6dr59xRYMOOZVuh6dfSOeBZDjvFhJy dwjog6NTj4cLLb9CvpW8/OIaSV1vidhMPzs4tvNg8+gZWuKC4hXRlzjEq6RwifGGBuxikS3EVfOTr pCIMl+vg64aLSNyfK44G3rf1WhwAOroZwYRF28fMymVNM07QHHcQwZICdhrUSPe7nknre7yNHH4/P rmGbii53tnk3T3b9JhVMcpQyCl/gb5xe/NHnn2PwCCNZzFu62HQx16ybxOKKVkt99jQ7Iz5YEy7lf 0VzKo+7Q==; Received: from [151.65.229.249] (port=54112 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1bRLpx-002b3h-Cm; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 17:01:06 +0100 From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#24051: 24.5; doc of `external-debugging-output' References: Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 17:00:51 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 22 Jul 2016 09:01:23 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <871t2jyqj0.fsf@russet.org.uk> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.95 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24051 Cc: 24051@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Drew Adams writes: > 1. Please consider documenting this in the Elisp manual, e.g., where we > document `print'. > > 2. The doc string should enclose "print" in `...': > > Write CHARACTER to stderr. > You can call `print' while debugging emacs, and pass it this function > to make it write to the debugging output. And also where we document "streams". Personally, I like the idea of adding "stderr" as an alias... Phil From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 28 18:22:54 2018 Received: (at 24051) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jan 2018 23:22:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46909 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1efwHl-0004f1-Sd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2018 18:22:54 -0500 Received: from mail-it0-f50.google.com ([209.85.214.50]:35089) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1efwHi-0004ek-J2 for 24051@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2018 18:22:52 -0500 Received: by mail-it0-f50.google.com with SMTP id e1so7272565ita.0 for <24051@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 28 Jan 2018 15:22:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=Y4u92BTuz4P+jr1frbB3WZTDXwAKCTrOWjl5La43U/k=; b=m9duSZRMf4lPGl5a3Ci3eCSm0ZNhYMFFjq7Y75+dW7UmmBzgcU1oSdSBiZxlAseGeC cOWZTwqh8L6Oen4jGmr5uTnk20Jj6d4kD3BkZm02D66wA52drh+wJqDTlBbvIEL5RQXI DL5Rlj2vsIRhJdFz4YxaE9xEUCLdo6HRO8nbjVZ0QeH3P7HLcg/k+zyljNw4S/eNZhEf 88qhUufl1MlewNt08hvIyJodvFLaRyZlVSL2FznZvLcCoUWB0WR7yde8QCsPz5+lP9B+ 91o9d875gvYKXgUyBL2hy9EQBSHwqwZs4Rpeswip3PwsBPRgbKSwfZImY//LW+FxuFig 6kLw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date :in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=Y4u92BTuz4P+jr1frbB3WZTDXwAKCTrOWjl5La43U/k=; b=sTn8osmCkbUI9bFQyimOZV5WUBVXuvdTA1YicFZjSJj4o4oSguoA3lnqyeUfUghkLz T6ckwZaa0R2oVfU+r7dFPpB0hLUoWDkvfBhgzM2rNlOb6fIS76g49A1D8MmK8fgtcq2q bd5zH7jnWEU0D9F+bnIxK5GpuLNmGKINTJV32F3JZv9dA+TR4cqOMphJNbydhvpc/vve ohK0wcVb7piv8twAL1uYJaQ9C/DORio4B7VVUVnDvIcZxbt2R4wPqIcY9sgsYk5AHJSw cHrb4fLXkikfUH9zOPDMuE5ZbgeLudBrMttKoUjW+o0qWc8Jh8U+fbUjp/yBbicKBAJK fGYg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxytfdR3qmThP1zIZhNNmsDrYH5h+LzaCVS1B49U9mstEooNo4ImCu g60wUQUwkM8dTe5H2MelvPdoAw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x226WquSEmLjuQ+xkRssuBaO3BDN2oE10fUDQR4BFkpMYv5Ih+eCBi0MX2gdtTOaDCqP5jL8m6g== X-Received: by 10.36.129.130 with SMTP id q124mr24295763itd.24.1517181764696; Sun, 28 Jan 2018 15:22:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from zebian ([45.2.119.34]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id o73sm6754374ito.4.2018.01.28.15.22.42 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sun, 28 Jan 2018 15:22:43 -0800 (PST) From: Noam Postavsky To: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Subject: Re: bug#24051: 24.5; doc of `external-debugging-output' References: <871t2jyqj0.fsf@russet.org.uk> Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2018 18:22:41 -0500 In-Reply-To: <871t2jyqj0.fsf@russet.org.uk> (Phillip Lord's message of "Sun, 24 Jul 2016 17:00:51 +0100") Message-ID: <87lgghk1q6.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.90 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24051 Cc: 24051@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) writes: > Drew Adams writes: > >> 1. Please consider documenting this in the Elisp manual, e.g., where we >> document `print'. >> >> 2. The doc string should enclose "print" in `...': >> >> Write CHARACTER to stderr. >> You can call `print' while debugging emacs, and pass it this function >> to make it write to the debugging output. > > > And also where we document "streams". Personally, I like the idea of > adding "stderr" as an alias... Yeah, I think it's already occured to me twice at least where I couldn't remember the name of this function, and I ended up searching through src/print.c. I don't think it fits under "Output Functions" though, as it says: This section describes the Lisp functions for printing Lisp objects--converting objects into their printed representation. It's rather an example of an output stream, so it should go in the previous section: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-diff Content-Disposition: inline; filename=v1-0001-Document-external-debugging-output-in-the-Elisp-M.patch Content-Description: patch >From e670ceada77e094cc42732a131a2fea8e782fd71 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Noam Postavsky Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2018 18:16:48 -0500 Subject: [PATCH v1] Document external-debugging-output in the Elisp Manual (Bug#24051) * doc/lispref/streams.texi (Output Streams): List external-debugging-output. * src/print.c (Fexternal_debugging_output): Quote `print' in docstring. --- doc/lispref/streams.texi | 6 ++++++ src/print.c | 2 +- 2 files changed, 7 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/doc/lispref/streams.texi b/doc/lispref/streams.texi index a25a5bfe84..8501466af6 100644 --- a/doc/lispref/streams.texi +++ b/doc/lispref/streams.texi @@ -530,6 +530,12 @@ Output Streams Calling @code{concat} converts the list to a string so you can see its contents more clearly. +@findex stderr +@defun external-debugging-output character +This function can be useful as an output stream when debugging. It +writes @var{character} to the standard error stream. +@end defun + @node Output Functions @section Output Functions diff --git a/src/print.c b/src/print.c index 6cf3c37e5e..64fc7eda31 100644 --- a/src/print.c +++ b/src/print.c @@ -748,7 +748,7 @@ DEFUN ("print", Fprint, Sprint, 1, 2, 0, DEFUN ("external-debugging-output", Fexternal_debugging_output, Sexternal_debugging_output, 1, 1, 0, doc: /* Write CHARACTER to stderr. -You can call print while debugging emacs, and pass it this function +You can call `print' while debugging emacs, and pass it this function to make it write to the debugging output. */) (Lisp_Object character) { -- 2.11.0 --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 28 18:49:19 2018 Received: (at 24051) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jan 2018 23:49:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46957 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1efwhJ-0007Gm-3Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2018 18:49:19 -0500 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:42542) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1efwhI-0007GY-3n for 24051@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2018 18:49:16 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w0SNn95t017257; Sun, 28 Jan 2018 23:49:09 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2017-10-26; bh=LNY/ngyFCwihPiGAGTa/AVHWSs0s5vT3yexdsE75wg8=; b=VpJNFyMF4MaM+7tIfrq2GknzEYHfBbzodqZhzxjolXEC9ZDVz+ZYc2UGUG6CYlcMFT0y AnH8EtIcwPC3ovP63Sb7XCTPc+Mg0LFfFR1VjB1lgAADEQoxCLxqY3v59LYc4D93pcRy cDQQ7HY0TcvNYoofBgJCqP9Id8k9L0KPIn+zVz94LINgmBafwlY9boER/lmFZYnOrNGq gVwSiaVj5Uk4yyxKpaAeh1qCMMFgDVMG3HyPn/82mugNdCrti+W86MxC4EN9F0PnalZn 90Pelj73IzXDlhvZ8rf1KZKT+j71skkspjq+Dy8Jocr67ulSvDJ6rNEBWGbtjA/SI2nB 3w== Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2fsnws05p9-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 28 Jan 2018 23:49:08 +0000 Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w0SNn8B5032591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 28 Jan 2018 23:49:08 GMT Received: from abhmp0012.oracle.com (abhmp0012.oracle.com [141.146.116.18]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id w0SNn5VO019105; Sun, 28 Jan 2018 23:49:06 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <12148302-2962-4a77-b644-d791c8581ce1@default> Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2018 15:49:04 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Noam Postavsky , phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Subject: RE: bug#24051: 24.5; doc of `external-debugging-output' References: <871t2jyqj0.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87lgghk1q6.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> In-Reply-To: <87lgghk1q6.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4639.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=8788 signatures=668655 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=427 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1711220000 definitions=main-1801280331 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24051 Cc: 24051@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) > Yeah, I think it's already occured to me twice at least where I couldn't > remember the name of this function, and I ended up searching through > src/print.c. >=20 > I don't think it fits under "Output Functions" though, as it says: >=20 > This section describes the Lisp functions for printing Lisp > objects--converting objects into their printed representation. >=20 > It's rather an example of an output stream, so it should go in the > previous section: Agreed. And it might be good to add an example that shows use of it, e.g., with `print'. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 28 19:24:29 2018 Received: (at 24051) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Jan 2018 00:24:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46991 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1efxFM-00087T-Vm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2018 19:24:29 -0500 Received: from mail-it0-f42.google.com ([209.85.214.42]:51826) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1efxFK-00087H-LX for 24051@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2018 19:24:27 -0500 Received: by mail-it0-f42.google.com with SMTP id p139so6275730itb.1 for <24051@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 28 Jan 2018 16:24:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=OEriAaRO5lYP1t34ID6HOcRGWVJXAUV6ucdKqRh9n/k=; b=hq+pYW1DWbgLgJLRucp+UZsr5Txd/0VF1O5VkBN/Be+pxQTcwvsI9TBkN0v2V48Smd da8IIKZIp3mFDgkZbUXnDXoMdwCK1T+Ar5tM3ffkG2sJZGAJXG7aLXRmBsqEN3Xi/Ds/ FWPC+1TLm5BMEvPMpMiLd8aqqsCa/HuX/PWvZ4qeVL8fJCQkaKCeKvNP87ra6SfsYhnz LnXmAxuU+StLmALQAqvAWpA/dG6H9THpT+yAuiWH4GgKq6B1iSEra5xN45cEFfmiMvLg i0+I0WsYRJ4f0r0oDqpw1I8aRq47DkbmvgtjjHnKd0jZaCE4yVNoAWuoj5bWqyeA5S+Q VadA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date :in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=OEriAaRO5lYP1t34ID6HOcRGWVJXAUV6ucdKqRh9n/k=; b=DWPwiIlZFrbXt8OSS52GRkV7aL0JnUFnXy9PripNIIfy2dzv+8v1S9HDOTqoDvOtpQ 3g/gPdCO/Qa2MB1PUL5SsMchVzjhXyn5jKvpfFLvslf4ImxyICye9StzTxD9VGkeIJjV uyUM9fjATwUmo5EKDoRBHnRKeJF1hryQH4NPtueuhEBVh2d+k6HP1H0gbUeoCOlCSq+o v2br72WP0Pwky/dIp3WBH7QDpUABLAXOo4ujHTrZTl++7zWCrRgAs84LL3G44LGkZ3Xi BE2cje7ZgkSRrRBoy1xgSHaC1tmNrjZ/1I+racWq128R1NJZg+WK6j49dt4XRRESJh1R EMxQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxytc0s2ZJDf3KhrrAUTTsgiO28IDHkMSceuNa+XGi9cBGbtg7DxfT 2i7d0Zbe0wuScozuvU/D5V9TMypq X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x225ldxZuStHWZE1V5Io5vXL4pBFFHRt0/YhiaT6lBU35WRSn9kU/T57sOsUdZ4fMGnGjKpzziA== X-Received: by 10.36.218.5 with SMTP id z5mr24780972itg.141.1517185461025; Sun, 28 Jan 2018 16:24:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from zebian ([45.2.119.34]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id q82sm5113527itb.7.2018.01.28.16.24.19 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sun, 28 Jan 2018 16:24:20 -0800 (PST) From: Noam Postavsky To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#24051: 24.5; doc of `external-debugging-output' References: <871t2jyqj0.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87lgghk1q6.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <12148302-2962-4a77-b644-d791c8581ce1@default> Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2018 19:24:18 -0500 In-Reply-To: <12148302-2962-4a77-b644-d791c8581ce1@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 28 Jan 2018 15:49:04 -0800 (PST)") Message-ID: <878tchjyvh.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.90 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24051 Cc: 24051@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) Drew Adams writes: > > And it might be good to add an example that shows use of it, > e.g., with `print'. Something like this? I'm not sure if this example really adds much. (Also not entirely sure about how the texinfo markup should be for this.) For example @example (print "This is the output #'external-debugging-output) @end example would print @samp{This is the output} to standard error. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 29 09:47:24 2018 Received: (at 24051) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Jan 2018 14:47:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47224 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1egAiS-0002gM-7X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Jan 2018 09:47:24 -0500 Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:58080) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1egAiQ-0002g8-AQ for 24051@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Jan 2018 09:47:23 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w0TElBtn001832; Mon, 29 Jan 2018 14:47:14 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2017-10-26; bh=rODB0TD9zJCcuS3O+mYpPaS9nLhhHAQhVuUBAAEjeyM=; b=baW5tqvThX1CrZ9x+Joqsj7fLZBfLN7YXrwiMSLXpkZzSjGjDf6oY/vS/kESsoSsVRnE dY9RCnGBT/XiaRf5D3cqx5kF7romZ8fuZyj5OKJ3HgkfbkqMrMzOujE4LkxFP+NuuJLa CBEPXBMZCyedxIQ0CoZ8V4qh9EniGArhWMUZRw2N1HsiH0Jv0kVnkETuQvJS27awbgk7 g8QLsHMTAhBRLPjPahRCN/eSkgBXlSE0Br9yFet8+JKNAsVnBpit4lpRyeP0agBuOdX9 YQ9XIs+f3xATKzJff9vpxNqAxNUaPqfnEGqHs2p+irB1m+RcvCNWymnL1f5QhX3bI3dh jg== Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2ft55506ca-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 29 Jan 2018 14:47:14 +0000 Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w0TElEbl005478 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 29 Jan 2018 14:47:14 GMT Received: from abhmp0004.oracle.com (abhmp0004.oracle.com [141.146.116.10]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id w0TElBX3026358; Mon, 29 Jan 2018 14:47:11 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 06:47:10 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Noam Postavsky Subject: RE: bug#24051: 24.5; doc of `external-debugging-output' References: <871t2jyqj0.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87lgghk1q6.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <12148302-2962-4a77-b644-d791c8581ce1@default> <878tchjyvh.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> In-Reply-To: <878tchjyvh.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4639.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=8788 signatures=668655 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=819 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1711220000 definitions=main-1801290197 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24051 Cc: 24051@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) > > And it might be good to add an example that shows use of it, > > e.g., with `print'. >=20 > Something like this? I'm not sure if this example really adds much. >=20 > (Also not entirely sure about how the texinfo markup should be for > this.) >=20 > For example > @example > (print "This is the output #'external-debugging-output) > @end example > would print @samp{This is the output} to standard error. Yes, I think so (I can't speak to the texinfo markup either). --- But I do wonder how we should talk about the standard error stream. I see only one other occurrence of "standard error" where it means the stream (and not the discussion of standard Emacs errors), and there it is referred to the same way. So I guess that's the right way to refer to it in our docs. On the other hand, would it be good to say something about the streams (the terms) "standard output" and "standard error" in node `Output Streams'? We refer to both (especially the former) in various places, but we don't say what those names mean. For a UNIX or GNU/Linux user such terms are well known, but is that to be assumed about everyone reading the Elisp manual? Just a thought/question. Actually, in `Output Streams' we do kind of say what is meant by "standard output", by describing variable `standard-output': that value is the "default output stream" Using that short description not just for the value of variable `standard-output' but also for the term "standard output" would be helpful. Similarly for "standard error": some such brief description would help. In node `Output Streams' and in other nodes we refer to the variable `standard-output'. I think it would help to use the word "variable" before that - e.g.: 'nil' specified as an output stream means to use the value of variable 'standard-output' instead; that value is the "default ^^^^^^^^ output stream", and must not be 'nil'. Yes, it should be clear from "value of", but it would be clearer still with "variable". Also, the next line describes SYMBOL, and there the use is as a function name.=20 Similarly, in other places where we mention `standard-output'. It wouldn't hurt to make clear that it is a (global) variable. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 29 12:14:05 2018 Received: (at 24051) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Jan 2018 17:14:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48061 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1egD0P-0008C7-Ap for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Jan 2018 12:14:05 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:42278) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1egD0N-0008BX-OS for 24051@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Jan 2018 12:14:04 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1egD0E-0003DK-BO for 24051@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Jan 2018 12:13:58 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:33387) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1egD0E-0003DC-79; Mon, 29 Jan 2018 12:13:54 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1861 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1egD0D-0004bW-FW; Mon, 29 Jan 2018 12:13:54 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 19:14:01 +0200 Message-Id: <838tcgio4m.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Noam Postavsky In-reply-to: <87lgghk1q6.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> (message from Noam Postavsky on Sun, 28 Jan 2018 18:22:41 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#24051: 24.5; doc of `external-debugging-output' References: <871t2jyqj0.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87lgghk1q6.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24051 Cc: 24051@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > From: Noam Postavsky > Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2018 18:22:41 -0500 > Cc: 24051@debbugs.gnu.org > > I don't think it fits under "Output Functions" though, as it says: > > This section describes the Lisp functions for printing Lisp > objects--converting objects into their printed representation. > > It's rather an example of an output stream, so it should go in the > previous section: But you can also mention it there, with a cross-reference. > --- a/doc/lispref/streams.texi > +++ b/doc/lispref/streams.texi > @@ -530,6 +530,12 @@ Output Streams > Calling @code{concat} converts the list to a string so you can see its > contents more clearly. > > +@findex stderr stderr is not a function, so @findex is not appropriate for it. I'd rather suggest this: @cindex @code{stderr} stream, use for debugging > +@defun external-debugging-output character > +This function can be useful as an output stream when debugging. It > +writes @var{character} to the standard error stream. > +@end defun Thanks, this is good for the release branch. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 29 12:27:51 2018 Received: (at 24051) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Jan 2018 17:27:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48175 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1egDDj-0000D0-CM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Jan 2018 12:27:51 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:53529) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1egDDh-0000Cm-NF for 24051@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Jan 2018 12:27:49 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1egDDZ-00084R-4n for 24051@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Jan 2018 12:27:44 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:33678) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1egDCg-0006bc-IJ; Mon, 29 Jan 2018 12:26:46 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1868 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1egDCf-0005fq-8E; Mon, 29 Jan 2018 12:26:46 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 19:26:53 +0200 Message-Id: <834ln4inj6.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Noam Postavsky In-reply-to: <878tchjyvh.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> (message from Noam Postavsky on Sun, 28 Jan 2018 19:24:18 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#24051: 24.5; doc of `external-debugging-output' References: <871t2jyqj0.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87lgghk1q6.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <12148302-2962-4a77-b644-d791c8581ce1@default> <878tchjyvh.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24051 Cc: 24051@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > From: Noam Postavsky > Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2018 19:24:18 -0500 > Cc: 24051@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk > > (Also not entirely sure about how the texinfo markup should be for > this.) > > For example > @example > (print "This is the output #'external-debugging-output) > @end example > would print @samp{This is the output} to standard error. You should use @print{} for displaying the results (inside the @example, not outside it). There are examples of that elsewhere in streams.texi. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 29 19:38:50 2018 Received: (at 24051) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Jan 2018 00:38:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48374 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1egJwo-0003fK-6q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Jan 2018 19:38:50 -0500 Received: from mail-it0-f45.google.com ([209.85.214.45]:38161) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1egJwl-0003f1-R8; Mon, 29 Jan 2018 19:38:48 -0500 Received: by mail-it0-f45.google.com with SMTP id w14so11415944itc.3; Mon, 29 Jan 2018 16:38:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=WB3VH3Hpk9KL88gM6H6idIpsGZHLJ12S0ff07FHjflA=; b=HWQxCcZdLFEQZSOXcRC4T19TGVCi0hIOke2JlplNEx5rLxobIm6DRhVEVy1xgJOzEr 7+0Ekfj7SN7dkkAbxx+54JRQD7VdcVT4ea2KcBwUvTLOtMTulf7GPCXdIUL1RcIK9Xuk h3zASV20tjw0GwVq/FFD5sS91N1vB7W0xJZJ6rCeV0NxrLQ3S1d6cV0726geWFbzsXde yoylYQf5Kwrzkk0N67fYGH09FcD5QeX3iDGLkAuNOz6v0g6Lv6KGriPioKuViUTLxexH muwk/OXnVo0+EULxZQFtD0KaphHsaRKd4X7E1TGYfnjYMaieWhbI//ls36m6wLRYbx6o iO6w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date :in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=WB3VH3Hpk9KL88gM6H6idIpsGZHLJ12S0ff07FHjflA=; b=ByZLOniKEJ4ERse/1AQOii88TnrxlLuRpPmjRIopeqYaree0Rfch7vlEBGobHMd8W8 SskOb0/DIZScrLnkiw6/+xp52bWmzyaQ/f+XzwxMOobmUTEjGDe6sjbSyt42K6YbdnMR 6m4GMoyVwwD532TE0iMBF83ZanYef8F8YUteeNBqBpl6O1g4FvZ88CAnCFoicMJTCVhh vb0LxYaxCiyfWWG8dffJQcQMjJbGpJMp9gDAODx9zwcSJoCtBHS3rcunhA6EuXMbtk/E 06U0GSd4kd0fRcaJdNq16iIVSFwx6oYkO8w0EzOacdmSNCcJaipgz2ABdrr0LE4opipa uKUg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxytddzvgkZ5wJpClfXGqIsoLZMaWIO/k6cIRwNp86HzEKVDX2lfRy b2X/w4EU0OcU2S3ezmU3ro2MsA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x224rVNk5qMarJOBdIxp03aX2pJV9DmKPvuqEJ6t89MxKY6+OEHWAt07WK5QbaNUhbuBBmWi/mg== X-Received: by 10.36.131.198 with SMTP id d189mr14280650ite.39.1517272722025; Mon, 29 Jan 2018 16:38:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from zebian ([45.2.119.34]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id o73sm368434ito.4.2018.01.29.16.38.39 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 29 Jan 2018 16:38:40 -0800 (PST) From: Noam Postavsky To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24051: 24.5; doc of `external-debugging-output' References: <871t2jyqj0.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87lgghk1q6.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <12148302-2962-4a77-b644-d791c8581ce1@default> <878tchjyvh.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <834ln4inj6.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 19:38:38 -0500 In-Reply-To: <834ln4inj6.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 29 Jan 2018 19:26:53 +0200") Message-ID: <87o9lci3jl.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.90 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24051 Cc: 24051@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain tags 24051 + patch quit Eli Zaretskii writes: > You should use @print{} for displaying the results (inside the > @example, not outside it). There are examples of that elsewhere in > streams.texi. Ah, so there are. I see some of them use @group, and some don't. I can't see any visible effect from @group so I left it out. >> I don't think it fits under "Output Functions" though, as it says: > But you can also mention it there, with a cross-reference. Hmm, it's a bit of an awkward fit, but yes, worth a mention (and actual cross-references are only to nodes, not a single function entry, so "the previous section" is already all the cross-reference needed, right?). > stderr is not a function, so @findex is not appropriate for it. I'd > rather suggest this: > > @cindex @code{stderr} stream, use for debugging Okay, here's the full patch, please double check my texinfo. --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-diff Content-Disposition: inline; filename=v2-0001-Document-external-debugging-output-in-the-Elisp-M.patch Content-Description: patch >From bfdc940eaa265bc17aae79cf97fc9775ec3d6e56 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Noam Postavsky Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2018 18:16:48 -0500 Subject: [PATCH v2] Document external-debugging-output in the Elisp Manual (Bug#24051) * doc/lispref/streams.texi (Output Streams): List external-debugging-output. * src/print.c (Fexternal_debugging_output): Quote `print' in docstring. --- doc/lispref/streams.texi | 22 ++++++++++++++++++---- src/print.c | 2 +- 2 files changed, 19 insertions(+), 5 deletions(-) diff --git a/doc/lispref/streams.texi b/doc/lispref/streams.texi index a25a5bfe84..119dd02808 100644 --- a/doc/lispref/streams.texi +++ b/doc/lispref/streams.texi @@ -503,7 +503,7 @@ Output Streams @end group @group -(print "This is the output" 'eat-output) +(print "This is the output" #'eat-output) @result{} "This is the output" @end group @@ -530,6 +530,19 @@ Output Streams Calling @code{concat} converts the list to a string so you can see its contents more clearly. +@cindex @code{stderr} stream, use for debugging +@defun external-debugging-output character +This function can be useful as an output stream when debugging. It +writes @var{character} to the standard error stream. + +For example +@example +(print "This is the output" #'external-debugging-output) +@print{} This is the output +@result{} "This is the output" +@end example +@end defun + @node Output Functions @section Output Functions @@ -570,9 +583,10 @@ Output Functions @end example In the functions below, @var{stream} stands for an output stream. -(See the previous section for a description of output streams.) If -@var{stream} is @code{nil} or omitted, it defaults to the value of -@code{standard-output}. +(See the previous section for a description of output streams. A +useful stream value for debugging, @code{external-debugging-output}, +is also mentioned there.) If @var{stream} is @code{nil} or omitted, +it defaults to the value of @code{standard-output}. @defun print object &optional stream @cindex Lisp printer diff --git a/src/print.c b/src/print.c index 6cf3c37e5e..64fc7eda31 100644 --- a/src/print.c +++ b/src/print.c @@ -748,7 +748,7 @@ DEFUN ("print", Fprint, Sprint, 1, 2, 0, DEFUN ("external-debugging-output", Fexternal_debugging_output, Sexternal_debugging_output, 1, 1, 0, doc: /* Write CHARACTER to stderr. -You can call print while debugging emacs, and pass it this function +You can call `print' while debugging emacs, and pass it this function to make it write to the debugging output. */) (Lisp_Object character) { -- 2.11.0 --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 30 03:23:06 2018 Received: (at 24051) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Jan 2018 08:23:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48516 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1egRC6-0000Fj-6n for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 03:23:06 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.22]:60130) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1egRC4-0000F0-DB for 24051@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 03:23:04 -0500 Received: from detlef.gmx.de ([213.220.148.66]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx101 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MJXEd-1ejRzq1GJv-00378U; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 09:22:45 +0100 From: Michael Albinus To: Noam Postavsky Subject: Re: bug#24051: 24.5; doc of `external-debugging-output' References: <871t2jyqj0.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87lgghk1q6.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <12148302-2962-4a77-b644-d791c8581ce1@default> <878tchjyvh.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <834ln4inj6.fsf@gnu.org> <87o9lci3jl.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2018 09:22:43 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87o9lci3jl.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> (Noam Postavsky's message of "Mon, 29 Jan 2018 19:38:38 -0500") Message-ID: <87k1vzycvg.fsf@gmx.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:NRMwn7wjms2U30pAwFAKHZ89uwyeKmG+JOspO9tFjpC+U1J8N+V cbCF8kSrhTZflAlijTCYuX5GEil/fv5G8pRwgL9MATp2DJPQ2RnefBCYv0ME4EJjlvKqXp/ uluE4XFDEYbSjuUPGi+ny8ZvpE6bQRUG47s0GNZ0ScUX8KGEa6z7ugPEDDhrwGTL2yNaawj aqqduM0BZj+QScqsIkHlw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:2VJA2fTn3Iw=:HU2HhLix8vAGDSM6f4f+7z 7bRyPhhOfgbMrk/52FoTV5axbbSnIi3tUWzWbROFHkt1Nl/IIfFjr6qs7lSwm+EgXGeBtAGMk C7ofDj5SNpQ19+36BL5PFpCt4dq+u678bNpSqOio7WJLIe2MqulkyOye5mWN3HgZZYqVAlMVK JvSdxU1Z6vcUSTWXVrvvXreSZ+io5XAq2jg6xu7RUdH2nhWQ40akoy2iePrc32pgGQ5I/PqoL xsM9XLHkc41O2yp6k8mZ3z85/y45qPV9c78N40MRdGZ9SMsibKCsFKoPlGk6dzrW+38jJJFEA Ggt9RFf8IpocEwhQ8QtzxyeqfqFIpE2TlfP07AxfhfvWwagbATY1u3D0rUd5ZYF9gux8mHkiV czlqTaTyINXXSGp0CHLUkwcN+Bn/65f7Y3mih84JJFs0LrN08NJBLp/57OWrGeVDPTR7CHg50 AOfoTDi50sisOkczplJJ2QSV04bx+88Vl1uhHVlNqORaTsUYAQh0NRabQ/a/Gyy5fg3jYeXio vmsrFBhJIk72QcKUwUGcCQRgL+/N4g1ZcJEwg1ZRfVg93CxnEPceLPKuBsBKZMFXfFw97YYW8 pvY+i6h5ZJSxX7ZJHs9dXjzG7I8JANa3THMvafPhxBoDV9Zi6LBlHbCUoAZeUVbQHcKsiPL1z 1UBNJoafF1dJt0qFduaPlD5FzaRjVx9VCwjlMYTg3bbkBX8mHoFp2gymhNwljoxL12w747O9i TpFrSTK3tq0yBElkekU3pk1+lnuZkPuurg4XpOPYcMsRuHxm7CI8LUU1yCflZ5km7qA/Vlpun UevE08kkQmMLscr+INe2r2WHqP5oFq9dr0mMQ/3sC+nMzUAkU0= X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24051 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 24051@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Noam Postavsky writes: Hi Noam, > Ah, so there are. I see some of them use @group, and some don't. I > can't see any visible effect from @group so I left it out. @group prevents page breaks in printed manuals in the following lines. > Hmm, it's a bit of an awkward fit, but yes, worth a mention (and actual > cross-references are only to nodes, not a single function entry, so "the > previous section" is already all the cross-reference needed, right?). You can also declare an @anchor, and use it as target of a cross reference. HTH. Best regards, Michael. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 30 08:30:09 2018 Received: (at 24051) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Jan 2018 13:30:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48658 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1egVzE-0000lI-TH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 08:30:09 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:33817) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1egVzD-0000js-7q for 24051@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 08:30:07 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1egVz4-0001ha-24 for 24051@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 08:30:02 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:59838) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1egVy8-0001IN-Tc; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 08:29:00 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2801 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1egVy8-0006mG-7p; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 08:29:00 -0500 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2018 15:29:09 +0200 Message-Id: <83r2q7h3ve.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Michael Albinus In-reply-to: <87k1vzycvg.fsf@gmx.de> (message from Michael Albinus on Tue, 30 Jan 2018 09:22:43 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#24051: 24.5; doc of `external-debugging-output' References: <871t2jyqj0.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87lgghk1q6.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <12148302-2962-4a77-b644-d791c8581ce1@default> <878tchjyvh.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <834ln4inj6.fsf@gnu.org> <87o9lci3jl.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <87k1vzycvg.fsf@gmx.de> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24051 Cc: 24051@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > From: Michael Albinus > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 24051@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk > Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2018 09:22:43 +0100 > > > Ah, so there are. I see some of them use @group, and some don't. I > > can't see any visible effect from @group so I left it out. > > @group prevents page breaks in printed manuals in the following lines. Right, and for that reason it's a good idea to use @group in this case, to make sure @print{} doesn't get separated from the preceding code fragment. I actually suggest to have the Texinfo manual be loaded in some Info buffer in your Emacs sessions; that's what I do. Then you can quickly consult it whenever the need arises. That manual is very well indexed, so finding what you need is usually a snap. > > Hmm, it's a bit of an awkward fit, but yes, worth a mention (and actual > > cross-references are only to nodes, not a single function entry, so "the > > previous section" is already all the cross-reference needed, right?). > > You can also declare an @anchor, and use it as target of a cross reference. Right. Also, the 2-argument form of @xref commands can also sometimes land you on the text that is the second arg (at least with some Info readers). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 30 08:53:53 2018 Received: (at 24051) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Jan 2018 13:53:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48680 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1egWMD-0001Hr-2B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 08:53:53 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:41801) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1egWMC-0001Hf-2a for 24051@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 08:53:52 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1egWM3-0000vc-OC for 24051@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 08:53:46 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:60138) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1egWLA-0000HD-C0; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 08:52:48 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2912 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1egWL9-0001OQ-Q6; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 08:52:48 -0500 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2018 15:52:57 +0200 Message-Id: <83k1vzh2rq.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: (message from Drew Adams on Mon, 29 Jan 2018 06:47:10 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: bug#24051: 24.5; doc of `external-debugging-output' References: <871t2jyqj0.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87lgghk1q6.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <12148302-2962-4a77-b644-d791c8581ce1@default> <878tchjyvh.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24051 Cc: 24051@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 06:47:10 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 24051@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk > > But I do wonder how we should talk about the standard error > stream. I see only one other occurrence of "standard error" > where it means the stream (and not the discussion of standard > Emacs errors) That's strange, because I see it in no less than 7 other nodes of the ELisp manual, and most of those nodes mention it more than once. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 30 09:01:42 2018 Received: (at 24051) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Jan 2018 14:01:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48692 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1egWTm-0001UW-Br for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 09:01:42 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:43752) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1egWTk-0001UJ-HL for 24051@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 09:01:40 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1egWTW-0005sJ-1m for 24051@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 09:01:35 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:60220) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1egWSJ-0004y7-M8; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 09:00:11 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2916 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1egWSJ-0007Au-0X; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 09:00:11 -0500 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2018 16:00:20 +0200 Message-Id: <83fu6nh2ff.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Noam Postavsky In-reply-to: <87o9lci3jl.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> (message from Noam Postavsky on Mon, 29 Jan 2018 19:38:38 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#24051: 24.5; doc of `external-debugging-output' References: <871t2jyqj0.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87lgghk1q6.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <12148302-2962-4a77-b644-d791c8581ce1@default> <878tchjyvh.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <834ln4inj6.fsf@gnu.org> <87o9lci3jl.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24051 Cc: 24051@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > From: Noam Postavsky > Cc: 24051@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 19:38:38 -0500 > > Hmm, it's a bit of an awkward fit, but yes, worth a mention (and actual > cross-references are only to nodes, not a single function entry, so "the > previous section" is already all the cross-reference needed, right?). "Previous section" is harder to follow in the on-line manual, especially if some day that section will acquire subsections. > Okay, here's the full patch, please double check my texinfo. LGTM, with the minor comments already voiced. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 30 10:09:49 2018 Received: (at 24051) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Jan 2018 15:09:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49706 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1egXXh-0003GA-3C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 10:09:49 -0500 Received: from aserp2130.oracle.com ([141.146.126.79]:42754) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1egXXf-0003Fy-2L for 24051@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 10:09:47 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w0UF7SMc062961; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 15:09:40 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2017-10-26; bh=93nN7SdcZwUXzKIUSqBSCFqb5DhREN8UWK18bGP6eZE=; b=TwSMIO8///TqoiflQ1qspTjwBD6CbsLnbJo19pGZQaBCeAwKTIVHiazSI87KzMNdefiy 3EwMiL0fpkpC3yDVjPLFmDwBYoWl5UYdD+daB0nt1tPqoSd8jtf9/+5EGH2ph0c5paX9 coFllRw6RzntA9j8q09NK+O+SEta9m7JR1yT6kvFKiExZMTqOcGNPeb7C7SfhGobSQOF M9MmrUJOZazpP5KYZD+Vcj7ZLLHil+3GkrgbvW5Wzdjw0g1RHU9h0ZUZ7gyIzeyBD0eI mJJQvjV03C6EKiQknDCxydiF7U+WINMTRuDN5+nmSyAMKWroFBJTeQNLZYG2uwQSqKk0 xg== Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by aserp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2fts97rs5x-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 30 Jan 2018 15:09:39 +0000 Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w0UF9dgn023352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 30 Jan 2018 15:09:39 GMT Received: from abhmp0012.oracle.com (abhmp0012.oracle.com [141.146.116.18]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w0UF9Zoc004078; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 15:09:35 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <8993e713-093b-416c-b14e-4135f9c8ba08@default> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2018 07:09:33 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#24051: 24.5; doc of `external-debugging-output' References: < <871t2jyqj0.fsf@russet.org.uk>> <<87lgghk1q6.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <12148302-2962-4a77-b644-d791c8581ce1@default> <878tchjyvh.fsf@users.sourceforge.net>> <> <<83k1vzh2rq.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83k1vzh2rq.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4639.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=8789 signatures=668655 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=701 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1711220000 definitions=main-1801300191 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24051 Cc: 24051@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) > > But I do wonder how we should talk about the standard error > > stream. I see only one other occurrence of "standard error" > > where it means the stream (and not the discussion of standard > > Emacs errors) >=20 > That's strange, because I see it in no less than 7 other nodes of the > ELisp manual, and most of those nodes mention it more than once. You're right: Subprocess Creation, Synchronous Processes, Asynchronous Processes, Output from Processes, Filter Functions, Displaying Messages, and Batch Mode. Not sure what I meant by the text you cite, but the rest of what I wrote there should make clear that, although we use the term in several places, we don't actually say what we mean by it. This bit, for instance: On the other hand, would it be good to say something about the streams (the terms) "standard output" and "standard error" in node `Output Streams'? We refer to both (especially the former) in various places, but we don't say what those names mean. Some short description, at least, would be helpful. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 30 22:43:20 2018 Received: (at 24051) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jan 2018 03:43:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50164 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1egjIu-0003qJ-7x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 22:43:20 -0500 Received: from mail-it0-f51.google.com ([209.85.214.51]:36631) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1egjIr-0003pz-Nc; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 22:43:17 -0500 Received: by mail-it0-f51.google.com with SMTP id n206so3333741itg.1; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 19:43:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=guEZj8xS754YuUUYZUDRE9L0qTHRS6NhC17P8NVM7fM=; b=E4K4wm+GvyfvbOhNwmSm/0Vb01rl8UkUtuLomQLO0vAhPci2v2NyUYvVgM7dQl816X GU7d6/KlrhKzgR4ejit6+3fvjj+DdxUbgR8CGGhBIcCiKUT5qmZGEbkFBKnjbruETU6R hjbfsSMI2dUitzSeNaxTjMcu0N9hhFli7eA/Pq84n95H7WxL6x5u+tdEOniSOCV6pvPM nuEuAIZDgwvnTMTcbtjnUzrIofb9kRYO2v5jRnVR975qz6WEwIAZmSYsnVfszK26cGP9 J9+v0p36+NXBadD06lwB9lEP7AwF2Hklrb5VxxMzGDEz2dMASEzkQ3I0wyJ4KyGQu+KB 1RtA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date :in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=guEZj8xS754YuUUYZUDRE9L0qTHRS6NhC17P8NVM7fM=; b=n3IrnyOlGmtD8qld5roED/i91l0nZ6QCuq2KyVQ27x4zqQCpazQvFfjPNr4BG9Lrgt UhVRyDGeu/fEB+xEKhbjEqhPl+wUKKdw05lE86JBFOKRPnMf9abrQR8/PvzoyczGjCZm mB1iHvFL8GCMH28bTOyX0N04Q8KjL4bBJQhcgYAK6+/l3IbgvWNTNZfRf3r1LaZyxoe1 AWAYjQz1m7o3vpwcbILfgj5gxI4JvHhka0wpo1/KGS9kRG8ENmJDD4XkmYHj9muMxHfl T9wfGVkPg33AsCoBLp34EyBUwGpEiHwfnhHWtFuxXh9cRhvmcLuXxWDMrMI9bx4H0DSw 6Lfw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxytdc6e0KXvHR++ad5q8/UxI6Qx50ObMpXMTXahwfFlaDWqewJT5T 3IlOKK3irqaTxtKvHDSmJOFJTXi7 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x226lN28F7Vm+lB7SRmxdHGg5JPFEJHwJXJPHC+1xIP3Au4c0bVAaCvpxxNZdhXZIhhRWBOH5AA== X-Received: by 10.36.37.209 with SMTP id g200mr36598105itg.152.1517370192117; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 19:43:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from zebian ([45.2.119.34]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id c140sm2686029itc.1.2018.01.30.19.43.10 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Tue, 30 Jan 2018 19:43:11 -0800 (PST) From: Noam Postavsky To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#24051: 24.5; doc of `external-debugging-output' References: <871t2jyqj0.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87lgghk1q6.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <12148302-2962-4a77-b644-d791c8581ce1@default> <878tchjyvh.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <834ln4inj6.fsf@gnu.org> <87o9lci3jl.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <83fu6nh2ff.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2018 22:43:09 -0500 In-Reply-To: <83fu6nh2ff.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 30 Jan 2018 16:00:20 +0200") Message-ID: <87po5qhewi.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.90 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24051 Cc: 24051@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) tags 24051 fixed close 24051 26.1 quit Eli Zaretskii writes: > LGTM, with the minor comments already voiced. Pushed to emacs-26 with fixes. [1: 2b35ed0b0c]: 2018-01-30 22:29:13 -0500 Document external-debugging-output in the Elisp Manual (Bug#24051) https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/commit/?id=2b35ed0b0c49698337758004bd5e6062a3aaffab From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 01 07:09:32 2018 Received: (at 24051) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Feb 2018 12:09:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51844 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ehDgK-0008MG-KW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2018 07:09:32 -0500 Received: from mailhub-mx3.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.234.83]:56100) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ehDgI-0008M6-7I for 24051@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2018 07:09:30 -0500 Received: (Haraka outbound); Thu, 01 Feb 2018 12:09:29 +0000 Authentication-Results: mailhub-mx3.ncl.ac.uk; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=newcastle.ac.uk X-Haraka-RcptSummary: valid=0/0 invalid=0/0 unverified=0/0 relay=4/4 norelay=0/0 X-Haraka-Relay: true Received-SPF: Pass (mailhub-mx3.ncl.ac.uk: domain of newcastle.ac.uk designates 10.3.192.254 as permitted sender) receiver=mailhub-mx3.ncl.ac.uk; identity=mailfrom; client-ip=10.3.192.254; helo=mailhub-ncl3.ncl.ac.uk; envelope-from= X-Haraka-Fail-Pre: defendermx/rdns Received: from mailhub-ncl3.ncl.ac.uk ([10.3.192.254]) by mailhub-mx3.ncl.ac.uk (DefenderMX/2.7.3) with ESMTPS id 5EAA7057-202F-4E07-BA84-A6B287FF6415.1 envelope-from (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 verify=FAIL); Thu, 01 Feb 2018 12:09:28 +0000 Received: from smtpauth.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.234.91]) by mailhub-ncl3.ncl.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1ehDgG-0006UB-0P; Thu, 01 Feb 2018 12:09:28 +0000 Received: from 17dcompd001.ncl.ac.uk ([10.70.40.123] helo=localhost) by smtpauth.ncl.ac.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1ehDgF-000149-Vb; Thu, 01 Feb 2018 12:09:27 +0000 From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) To: Noam Postavsky Subject: Re: bug#24051: 24.5; doc of `external-debugging-output' In-Reply-To: <87po5qhewi.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> (Noam Postavsky's message of "Tue, 30 Jan 2018 22:43:09 -0500") Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 19:38:52 +0000 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NCL-mrate: cflags=() mflags=() X-Haraka-Syntax: mail_case=upper mail_leading_spaces=N mail_trailing_spaces=N mail_missing_brackets=N rcpt_case=upper rcpt_leading_spaces=N rcpt_missing_brackets=N rcpt_trailing_spaces=N X-Haraka-HostID: 10.3.192.254 X-Haraka-SenderAuth: 10.3.192.254 newcastle.ac.uk X-Haraka-AccessMap: connect:10 OK X-Haraka-Domain-Info: domain="russet.org.uk" last_update=348 primary_ns="dns5.planethippo.com" serial=2017021810 refresh=3600 retry=7200 expiration=1209600 minimum=86400 flags="NS_SINGLE_IP, MX_IS_NS, MX_SINGLE" domain="newcastle.ac.uk" last_update=1 primary_ns="dns0.ncl.ac.uk" serial=2018013113 refresh=10800 retry=3600 expiration=604800 minimum=3600 flags="SOA_UPDATE_1" X-Haraka-SubjectNonLatin: 0 X-Haraka-NonLatin: 0 References: <871t2jyqj0.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87lgghk1q6.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <12148302-2962-4a77-b644-d791c8581ce1@default> <878tchjyvh.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <834ln4inj6.fsf@gnu.org> <87o9lci3jl.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <83fu6nh2ff.fsf@gnu.org> <87po5qhewi.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <87a7wtkecz.fsf@russet.org.uk> Message-Id: X-Spam-Score: -1.2 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24051 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 24051@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.2 (-) Thanks for fixing this; apologies for being too late to the party to add anything useful. Phil Noam Postavsky writes: > tags 24051 fixed > close 24051 26.1 > quit > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > >> LGTM, with the minor comments already voiced. > > Pushed to emacs-26 with fixes. > > [1: 2b35ed0b0c]: 2018-01-30 22:29:13 -0500 > Document external-debugging-output in the Elisp Manual (Bug#24051) > https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/commit/?id=2b35ed0b0c49698337758004bd5e6062a3aaffab From unknown Fri Jun 20 07:12:50 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2018 12:24:06 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator