GNU bug report logs - #24040
download instructions incomplete

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jay Walker <jwalker <at> conserviscorp.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: download instructions incomplete
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 15:56:16 +0000

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

I followed your download instructions and found they are so lacking, please
update! I downloaded a mirror, then was left with a zip file and no obvious
readme or further instructions.

I much preferred getting msys2, then installing through git. Much more
straightforward.

Thank you for your service!
-- 

*Jay Walker Paz*
*Implementation/Support*

*O: 612-424-6735*
*www.conserviscorp.com <http://www.conserviscorp.com/>*

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Message #8 received at 24040 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Nicolas Petton <nicolas <at> petton.fr>
To: Jay Walker <jwalker <at> conserviscorp.com>, 24040 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#24040: download instructions incomplete
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 22:42:29 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Jay Walker <jwalker <at> conserviscorp.com> writes:

Hi Jay,

> I followed your download instructions and found they are so lacking, please
> update!

Which download instructions are you talking about?  Was it the
instructions for Windows installation found on the Emacs website?

Nico

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Message #11 received at 24040 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jay Walker <jwalker <at> conserviscorp.com>
To: Nicolas Petton <nicolas <at> petton.fr>, 24040 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#24040: download instructions incomplete
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 20:57:21 +0000

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Yes, thank you so much for your help! Ok, so I am assuming to be completely
new at Emacs. Based on the Windows Download instructions, but also OSX, I
can´t really tell what to do. Following what the website says, it appears I
can either download a zip file from a mirror, or get MSYS2 in order to
download it that way. It seemed that MSYS2 was a better approach because
downloading it gives me a bunch of files I have no idea what to do with. So
once I have gotten MSYS2 (a link would be helpful!), I enter the command
and see that it has downloaded. But what's next? Perhaps it would be useful
to have a link to the next steps to getting emacs running. I type in
´emacs´ and it is unrecognized. Do you feel me on what I am getting at?
Thanks for your patience and attentiveness!
Jay

On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 3:42 PM Nicolas Petton <nicolas <at> petton.fr> wrote:

> Jay Walker <jwalker <at> conserviscorp.com> writes:
>
> Hi Jay,
>
> > I followed your download instructions and found they are so lacking,
> please
> > update!
>
> Which download instructions are you talking about?  Was it the
> instructions for Windows installation found on the Emacs website?
>
> Nico
>
-- 

*Jay Walker Paz*
*Implementation/Support*

*O: 612-424-6735*
*www.conserviscorp.com <http://www.conserviscorp.com/>*

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #14 received at 24040 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Nicolas Petton <nicolas <at> petton.fr>
To: Jay Walker <jwalker <at> conserviscorp.com>, 24040 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#24040: download instructions incomplete
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 00:18:49 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Jay Walker <jwalker <at> conserviscorp.com> writes:

> Yes, thank you so much for your help! Ok, so I am assuming to be completely
> new at Emacs. Based on the Windows Download instructions, but also OSX, I
> can´t really tell what to do. Following what the website says, it appears I
> can either download a zip file from a mirror

Ok, so based on your feedback, it is not obvious that the zip file
contains a binary to run?

Nico

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Message #17 received at 24040 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Óscar Fuentes <ofv <at> wanadoo.es>
To: Nicolas Petton <nicolas <at> petton.fr>
Cc: Jay Walker <jwalker <at> conserviscorp.com>, 24040 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#24040: download instructions incomplete
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 03:17:17 +0200

Nicolas Petton <nicolas <at> petton.fr> writes:

> Ok, so based on your feedback, it is not obvious that the zip file
> contains a binary to run?

Maybe it is a good idea to mention de addpm.exe utility for creating the
shorcuts, and emacs.exe/emacsrun.exe for directly executing Emacs? Oh,
wait:

https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_mono/efaq-w32.html#Installing-binaries

but the FAQ is not referenced from

https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/download.html

In fact, I found no link at all to the Windows FAQ. That's a waste,
because the FAQ contains lots of useful info.

Message #20 received at 24040 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jay Walker <jwalker <at> conserviscorp.com>
To: Óscar Fuentes <ofv <at> wanadoo.es>, 
 Nicolas Petton <nicolas <at> petton.fr>
Cc: 24040 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#24040: download instructions incomplete
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 12:57:03 +0000

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Nice, guys, I'm happy to see that the FAQ is being brought back! The way I
see it as a relatively new Emacs user is that more people would get into it
if the very beginning stages were explained very completely. Think about it
if you were a middle school student, what would you need to get started
with this wonderful and seemingly cryptic, dark world?

Jay

On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 8:17 PM Óscar Fuentes <ofv <at> wanadoo.es> wrote:

> Nicolas Petton <nicolas <at> petton.fr> writes:
>
> > Ok, so based on your feedback, it is not obvious that the zip file
> > contains a binary to run?
>
> Maybe it is a good idea to mention de addpm.exe utility for creating the
> shorcuts, and emacs.exe/emacsrun.exe for directly executing Emacs? Oh,
> wait:
>
>
> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_mono/efaq-w32.html#Installing-binaries
>
> but the FAQ is not referenced from
>
> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/download.html
>
> In fact, I found no link at all to the Windows FAQ. That's a waste,
> because the FAQ contains lots of useful info.
>
-- 

*Jay Walker Paz*
*Implementation/Support*

*O: 612-424-6735*
*www.conserviscorp.com <http://www.conserviscorp.com/>*

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #23 received at 24040 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Óscar Fuentes <ofv <at> wanadoo.es>
Cc: nicolas <at> petton.fr, jwalker <at> conserviscorp.com, 24040 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#24040: download instructions incomplete
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 17:24:29 +0300

> From: Óscar Fuentes <ofv <at> wanadoo.es>
> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 03:17:17 +0200
> Cc: Jay Walker <jwalker <at> conserviscorp.com>, 24040 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> > Ok, so based on your feedback, it is not obvious that the zip file
> > contains a binary to run?
> 
> Maybe it is a good idea to mention de addpm.exe utility for creating the
> shorcuts, and emacs.exe/emacsrun.exe for directly executing Emacs?

I'm not sure it's a good idea.  addpm.exe is not needed nowadays, and
can cause trouble in the long run, because it records environment
variables in the Registry, and therefore requires you to re-run it
with each installation of a new Emacs version.  I'd like to remove
addpm.exe in the long run, so advertising it is a step in the wrong
direction.

If we want to help users to create shortcuts, we should come up with a
different utility, one that doesn't write to Registry.

> Oh, wait:
> 
> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_mono/efaq-w32.html#Installing-binaries
> 
> but the FAQ is not referenced from
> 
> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/download.html
> 
> In fact, I found no link at all to the Windows FAQ. That's a waste,
> because the FAQ contains lots of useful info.

Most of that info is either outdated or even plain wrong.  Patches are
welcome to add any information there that's still useful and accurate
to the Emacs FAQ, so that we could finally retire efaq-w32.

Thanks.

Message #26 received at 24040 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Nicolas Petton <nicolas <at> petton.fr>
To: Jay Walker <jwalker <at> conserviscorp.com>, 24040 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Cc: 24040-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#24040: download instructions incomplete
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 17:30:36 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Jay Walker <jwalker <at> conserviscorp.com> writes:

> I followed your download instructions and found they are so lacking, please
> update! I downloaded a mirror, then was left with a zip file and no obvious
> readme or further instructions.

I added a sentence explaining which file to run once the zip file is
unzipped, so I'm closing this issue.

Cheers,
Nico

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Message #34 received at 24040 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: phillip.lord <at> russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord)
To: Jay Walker <jwalker <at> conserviscorp.com>
Cc: Nicolas Petton <nicolas <at> petton.fr>, 24040 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#24040: download instructions incomplete
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 16:53:36 +0100

I entirely agree with this. Combined with the single multiple-top-level
zip file, the windows download is not obvious. And using Emacs without
having msys installed is a limited experience because it misses lots of
DLLs that it needs.

The README with the pre-test binaries really sucks als (my fault). This
situation could be improved significantly.

Phil


Jay Walker <jwalker <at> conserviscorp.com> writes:

> Yes, thank you so much for your help! Ok, so I am assuming to be completely
> new at Emacs. Based on the Windows Download instructions, but also OSX, I
> can´t really tell what to do. Following what the website says, it appears I
> can either download a zip file from a mirror, or get MSYS2 in order to
> download it that way. It seemed that MSYS2 was a better approach because
> downloading it gives me a bunch of files I have no idea what to do with. So
> once I have gotten MSYS2 (a link would be helpful!), I enter the command
> and see that it has downloaded. But what's next? Perhaps it would be useful
> to have a link to the next steps to getting emacs running. I type in
> ´emacs´ and it is unrecognized. Do you feel me on what I am getting at?
> Thanks for your patience and attentiveness!
> Jay
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 3:42 PM Nicolas Petton <nicolas <at> petton.fr> wrote:
>
>> Jay Walker <jwalker <at> conserviscorp.com> writes:
>>
>> Hi Jay,
>>
>> > I followed your download instructions and found they are so lacking,
>> please
>> > update!
>>
>> Which download instructions are you talking about?  Was it the
>> instructions for Windows installation found on the Emacs website?
>>
>> Nico
>>

Message #37 received at 24040 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jay Walker <jwalker <at> conserviscorp.com>
To: Phillip Lord <phillip.lord <at> russet.org.uk>
Cc: Nicolas Petton <nicolas <at> petton.fr>, 24040 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#24040: download instructions incomplete
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 13:15:50 +0000

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Wow, you guys made a major improvement in this area, I am so happy!! Way to
go!!!!!!!!!!

On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 10:53 AM Phillip Lord <phillip.lord <at> russet.org.uk>
wrote:

>
> I entirely agree with this. Combined with the single multiple-top-level
> zip file, the windows download is not obvious. And using Emacs without
> having msys installed is a limited experience because it misses lots of
> DLLs that it needs.
>
> The README with the pre-test binaries really sucks als (my fault). This
> situation could be improved significantly.
>
> Phil
>
>
> Jay Walker <jwalker <at> conserviscorp.com> writes:
>
> > Yes, thank you so much for your help! Ok, so I am assuming to be
> completely
> > new at Emacs. Based on the Windows Download instructions, but also OSX, I
> > can´t really tell what to do. Following what the website says, it
> appears I
> > can either download a zip file from a mirror, or get MSYS2 in order to
> > download it that way. It seemed that MSYS2 was a better approach because
> > downloading it gives me a bunch of files I have no idea what to do with.
> So
> > once I have gotten MSYS2 (a link would be helpful!), I enter the command
> > and see that it has downloaded. But what's next? Perhaps it would be
> useful
> > to have a link to the next steps to getting emacs running. I type in
> > ´emacs´ and it is unrecognized. Do you feel me on what I am getting at?
> > Thanks for your patience and attentiveness!
> > Jay
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 3:42 PM Nicolas Petton <nicolas <at> petton.fr>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Jay Walker <jwalker <at> conserviscorp.com> writes:
> >>
> >> Hi Jay,
> >>
> >> > I followed your download instructions and found they are so lacking,
> >> please
> >> > update!
> >>
> >> Which download instructions are you talking about?  Was it the
> >> instructions for Windows installation found on the Emacs website?
> >>
> >> Nico
> >>
>
-- 

*Jay Walker Paz*
*Implementation/Support*

*O: 612-424-6735*
*www.conserviscorp.com <http://www.conserviscorp.com/>*

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Message #40 received at 24040 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: nicolas <at> petton.fr
Cc: 24040 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord <at> russet.org.uk
Subject: Re: bug#24040: download instructions incomplete
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 19:10:45 +0300

> From: Jay Walker <jwalker <at> conserviscorp.com>
> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 13:15:50 +0000
> Cc: Nicolas Petton <nicolas <at> petton.fr>, 24040 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> Wow, you guys made a major improvement in this area, I am so happy!! Way to go!!!!!!!!!!

I agree, good job!

Btw, the Windows instructions are somewhat inaccurate.  They say:

  Unzip the zip file and run bin\emacs.exe.

A better text would be:

  Unzip the zip file preserving the directory structure, and run
  bin\runemacs.exe.  Alternatively, create a desktop shortcut to
  bin\runemacs.exe, and start Emacs by double-clicking on that
  shortcut's icon.

Thanks.

Message #43 received at 24040 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Nicolas Petton <nicolas <at> petton.fr>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 24040 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord <at> russet.org.uk
Subject: Re: bug#24040: download instructions incomplete
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 18:40:20 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

> A better text would be:
>
>   Unzip the zip file preserving the directory structure, and run
>   bin\runemacs.exe.  Alternatively, create a desktop shortcut to
>   bin\runemacs.exe, and start Emacs by double-clicking on that
>   shortcut's icon.

Changed, thanks.

Cheers,
Nico

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