GNU bug report logs - #23786
25.0.95 and 24.5: NS variants both scroll too much

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa <at> Freenet.DE>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Cc: Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa <at> Freenet.DE>
Subject: 25.0.95 and 24.5: NS variants both scroll too much
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 17:15:39 +0200

Hello!

These two Emacsen,

In GNU Emacs 25.0.95.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin13.4.0, NS appkit-1265.21 Version 10.9.5 (Build 13F1603))
 of 2016-06-11 built on builder10-9.local
Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.1404
Configured using:
 'configure --with-ns '--enable-locallisppath=/Library/Application
 Support/Emacs/${version}/site-lisp:/Library/Application
 Support/Emacs/site-lisp''

Configured features:
NOTIFY ACL LIBXML2 ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS NS

Important settings:
  value of $LANG: de_DE.UTF-8
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

and

In GNU Emacs 24.5.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin15.4.0, NS apple-appkit-1404.46)
 of 2016-05-13 on demucwolf85.muc.de.ad.dom
Windowing system distributor `Apple', version 10.3.1404
Configured using:
 `configure --with-ns --disable-ns-self-contained
 '--enable-locallisppath=/Library/Application Support/Emacs''

Important settings:
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

and

In GNU Emacs 25.0.95.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin13.4.0, NS appkit-1265.21 Version 10.9.5 (Build 13F1603))
 of 2016-06-11 built on builder10-9.local
Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.1404
Configured using:
 'configure --with-ns '--enable-locallisppath=/Library/Application
 Support/Emacs/${version}/site-lisp:/Library/Application
 Support/Emacs/site-lisp''

Configured features:
NOTIFY ACL LIBXML2 ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS NS

Important settings:
  value of $LANG: de_DE.UTF-8
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

and

In GNU Emacs 25.0.95.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin15.5.0, NS appkit-1404.47 Version 10.11.5 (Build 15F34))
 of 2016-06-17 built on demucwolf85.muc.de.ad.dom
Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.1404
Configured using:
 'configure --with-ns --disable-ns-self-contained
 '--enable-locallisppath=/Library/Application Support/Emacs''

Configured features:
RSVG IMAGEMAGICK NOTIFY ACL GNUTLS LIBXML2 ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS NS

Important settings:
  value of $LANG: de_DE.UTF-8
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

all scroll too much when I use the extra Bluetooth trackpad of an iMac (27“, Late 2013) instead of the Mighty Mouse.

For example in Safari, reading an entry in Wikipedia, the scrolling action is OK, I can easily synchronize speed of reading and speed of scrolling. In the NS variants the scrolling is much too fast, I would need to move my two fingers by µm/sec and not by human mm/sec. Or is there a hidden setting I have to change?

The X client,

In GNU Emacs 24.5.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin15.4.0, X toolkit, Xaw3d scroll bars)
 of 2016-05-04 on demucsculz39-02.muc.de.ad.dom
Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11604000
Configured using:
 `configure --with-x '--enable-locallisppath=/Library/Application
 Support/Emacs''

Important settings:
  value of $LANG: de_DE.UTF-8
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

behaves quite OK with XQuartz 2.7.8 (xorg-server 1.16.4) and XQuartz 2.7.9 (xorg-server 1.17.4). Here it’s possible to set the amount or speed of scrolling.

(Mac) OS X 10.11.5 (15F34), El Capitan. Bluetooth keyboard and Bluetooth trackpad.

—

Greetings

  Pete

f u cn rd ths, itn tyg h myxbl cd.

Message #8 received at 23786 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jiajie Chen <jiegec <at> qq.com>
To: Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa <at> Freenet.DE>
Cc: 23786 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#23786: 25.0.95 and 24.5: NS variants both scroll too much
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 15:18:14 +0800

Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa <at> Freenet.DE> writes:

This are the settings I am using:

(setq mouse-wheel-scroll-amount '(1 ((shift) . 1))) ;; one line at a time
(setq mouse-wheel-progressive-speed nil) ;; don't accelerate scrolling
(setq mouse-wheel-follow-mouse 't) ;; scroll window under mouse

Not very smooth but slow enough indeed. For more information, see https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/SmoothScrolling.

> Hello!
>
> These two Emacsen,
>
> In GNU Emacs 25.0.95.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin13.4.0, NS appkit-1265.21 Version 10.9.5 (Build 13F1603))
>  of 2016-06-11 built on builder10-9.local
> Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.1404
> Configured using:
>  'configure --with-ns '--enable-locallisppath=/Library/Application
>  Support/Emacs/${version}/site-lisp:/Library/Application
>  Support/Emacs/site-lisp''
>
> Configured features:
> NOTIFY ACL LIBXML2 ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS NS
>
> Important settings:
>   value of $LANG: de_DE.UTF-8
>   locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix
>
> and
>
> In GNU Emacs 24.5.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin15.4.0, NS apple-appkit-1404.46)
>  of 2016-05-13 on demucwolf85.muc.de.ad.dom
> Windowing system distributor `Apple', version 10.3.1404
> Configured using:
>  `configure --with-ns --disable-ns-self-contained
>  '--enable-locallisppath=/Library/Application Support/Emacs''
>
> Important settings:
>   locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix
>
> and
>
> In GNU Emacs 25.0.95.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin13.4.0, NS appkit-1265.21 Version 10.9.5 (Build 13F1603))
>  of 2016-06-11 built on builder10-9.local
> Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.1404
> Configured using:
>  'configure --with-ns '--enable-locallisppath=/Library/Application
>  Support/Emacs/${version}/site-lisp:/Library/Application
>  Support/Emacs/site-lisp''
>
> Configured features:
> NOTIFY ACL LIBXML2 ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS NS
>
> Important settings:
>   value of $LANG: de_DE.UTF-8
>   locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix
>
> and
>
> In GNU Emacs 25.0.95.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin15.5.0, NS appkit-1404.47 Version 10.11.5 (Build 15F34))
>  of 2016-06-17 built on demucwolf85.muc.de.ad.dom
> Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.1404
> Configured using:
>  'configure --with-ns --disable-ns-self-contained
>  '--enable-locallisppath=/Library/Application Support/Emacs''
>
> Configured features:
> RSVG IMAGEMAGICK NOTIFY ACL GNUTLS LIBXML2 ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS NS
>
> Important settings:
>   value of $LANG: de_DE.UTF-8
>   locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix
>
> all scroll too much when I use the extra Bluetooth trackpad of an iMac (27“, Late 2013) instead of the Mighty Mouse.
>
> For example in Safari, reading an entry in Wikipedia, the scrolling action is OK, I can easily synchronize speed of reading and speed of scrolling. In the NS variants the scrolling is much too fast, I would need to move my two fingers by µm/sec and not by human mm/sec. Or is there a hidden setting I have to change?
>
> The X client,
>
> In GNU Emacs 24.5.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin15.4.0, X toolkit, Xaw3d scroll bars)
>  of 2016-05-04 on demucsculz39-02.muc.de.ad.dom
> Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11604000
> Configured using:
>  `configure --with-x '--enable-locallisppath=/Library/Application
>  Support/Emacs''
>
> Important settings:
>   value of $LANG: de_DE.UTF-8
>   locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix
>
> behaves quite OK with XQuartz 2.7.8 (xorg-server 1.16.4) and XQuartz 2.7.9 (xorg-server 1.17.4). Here it’s possible to set the amount or speed of scrolling.
>
> (Mac) OS X 10.11.5 (15F34), El Capitan. Bluetooth keyboard and Bluetooth trackpad.
>
> —
>
> Greetings
>
>   Pete
>
> f u cn rd ths, itn tyg h myxbl cd.

Message #11 received at 23786 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Alan Third <alan <at> idiocy.org>
To: Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa <at> Freenet.DE>
Cc: 23786 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#23786: 25.0.95 and 24.5: NS variants both scroll too much
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 12:45:37 +0100

On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 05:15:39PM +0200, Peter Dyballa wrote:
> <various Emacs versions>
> all scroll too much when I use the extra Bluetooth trackpad of an
> iMac (27“, Late 2013) instead of the Mighty Mouse.
> 
> For example in Safari, reading an entry in Wikipedia, the scrolling
> action is OK, I can easily synchronize speed of reading and speed of
> scrolling. In the NS variants the scrolling is much too fast, I
> would need to move my two fingers by µm/sec and not by human mm/sec.
> Or is there a hidden setting I have to change?

Are you saying it scrolls OK with the mouse, but not the trackpad?
-- 
Alan Third

Message #14 received at 23786 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa <at> Freenet.DE>
To: Alan Third <alan <at> idiocy.org>
Cc: 23786 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa <at> Freenet.DE>
Subject: Re: bug#23786: 25.0.95 and 24.5: NS variants both scroll too much
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2016 14:21:08 +0200

> Am 18.06.2016 um 13:45 schrieb Alan Third <alan <at> idiocy.org>:
> 
> Are you saying it scrolls OK with the mouse, but not the trackpad?

Yes. The default setting for the mouse could be a bit improved, using the suggestions of Jiajie Chen – I am usually not working with mice – because it scrolls a bit too fast, but by far not that fast as the trackpad.

Is there a way to find out on the command line the preferences set for mouse and trackpad? Maybe it would help determine the cause for my bug report.

--

Greetings

   Pete

Message #17 received at 23786 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Toon Claes <toon <at> iotcl.com>
To: Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa <at> Freenet.DE>
Cc: 23786 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Alan Third <alan <at> idiocy.org>,
 Jiajie Chen <jiegec <at> qq.com>
Subject: Re: bug#23786: 25.0.95 and 24.5: NS variants both scroll too much
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 21:55:31 +0200

Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa <at> Freenet.DE> writes:

> Hello!

Hi Pete,

> all scroll too much when I use the extra Bluetooth trackpad of an iMac
> (27“, Late 2013) instead of the Mighty Mouse.

Is it a Magic Trackpad, or a Magic Trackpad 2 with Force Touch?
I use the latter on a daily basis. But I have an old one laying around
somewhere. I also have a Magic Mouse. But you are using a Mighty Mouse,
aren't you?

> Yes. The default setting for the mouse could be a bit improved, using
> the suggestions of Jiajie Chen – I am usually not working with mice –
> because it scrolls a bit too fast, but by far not that fast as the
> trackpad.

I also did not know about those settings, thanks a bunch Jiajie Chen.
These settings feel a lot more natural, so maybe we should consider
changing the defaults (although I actually never scroll with mouse in
Emacs).

> Is there a way to find out on the command line the preferences set for
> mouse and trackpad? Maybe it would help determine the cause for my bug
> report.

Mac OS X has the `defaults` tool to read/write settings from the command
line. For example on my machine:

$ defaults read -g | grep mouse

    "com.apple.mouse.scaling" = "2.5";

$ defaults read -g | grep trackpad
    "com.apple.trackpad.forceClick" = 1;
    "com.apple.trackpad.scaling" = "1.5";



Regards,
Toon

Message #20 received at 23786 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa <at> Freenet.DE>
To: Toon Claes <toon <at> iotcl.com>
Cc: 23786 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa <at> Freenet.DE>,
 Jiajie Chen <jiegec <at> qq.com>, Alan Third <alan <at> idiocy.org>
Subject: Re: bug#23786: 25.0.95 and 24.5: NS variants both scroll too much
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 14:36:10 +0200

> Am 16.08.2016 um 21:55 schrieb Toon Claes <toon <at> iotcl.com>:
> 
> Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa <at> Freenet.DE> writes:
> 
>> Hello!
> 
> Hi Pete,
> 
>> all scroll too much when I use the extra Bluetooth trackpad of an iMac
>> (27“, Late 2013) instead of the Mighty Mouse.
> 
> Is it a Magic Trackpad, or a Magic Trackpad 2 with Force Touch?
> I use the latter on a daily basis. But I have an old one laying around
> somewhere. I also have a Magic Mouse. But you are using a Mighty Mouse,
> aren't you?

I did not buy anything, it’s the gear my employer provides me with. System Report/System Information says about the mouse:

  Services:	Apple Magic Mouse
  Manufacturer:	Apple (0x3, 0x31C)
  Firmware Version:	0x0306
  Vendor ID:	0x05AC
  Product ID:	0x030D
  Class of Device:	0x05 0x20 0x2580

And about the trackpad it reports:

  Services:	Apple Wireless Trackpad
  Manufacturer:	Apple (0x3, 0x31C)
  Firmware Version:	0x0160
  Vendor ID:	0x05AC
  Product ID:	0x030E
  Class of Device:	0x05 0x25 0x2594


> 
>> Yes. The default setting for the mouse could be a bit improved, using
>> the suggestions of Jiajie Chen – I am usually not working with mice –
>> because it scrolls a bit too fast, but by far not that fast as the
>> trackpad.
> 
> I also did not know about those settings, thanks a bunch Jiajie Chen.
> These settings feel a lot more natural, so maybe we should consider
> changing the defaults (although I actually never scroll with mouse in
> Emacs).
> 
>> Is there a way to find out on the command line the preferences set for
>> mouse and trackpad? Maybe it would help determine the cause for my bug
>> report.

Meanwhile mouse and trackpad are working better. The commands below give for me:

    "com.apple.mouse.scaling" = "0.875";
    "com.apple.trackpad.scaling" = "1.5";

> 
> Mac OS X has the `defaults` tool to read/write settings from the command
> line. For example on my machine:
> 
> $ defaults read -g | grep mouse
> 
>    "com.apple.mouse.scaling" = "2.5";
> 
> $ defaults read -g | grep trackpad
>    "com.apple.trackpad.forceClick" = 1;
>    "com.apple.trackpad.scaling" = "1.5";

My customisation looks minimal:

(setq scroll-conservatively 1000)
 '(mouse-wheel-scroll-amount (quote (3 ((shift) . 1) ((control)))))

I think that I just changed 2 to 3…

For GNU Emacs 25 I have changed

(setq mouse-wheel-progressive-speed nil) to '(mouse-wheel-progressive-speed t). Behaviour of GNU Emacs 24 and 25 is now fine.

—

Greetings

  Pete

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