From unknown Tue Jun 24 22:34:21 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#23341 <23341@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#23341 <23341@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable Reply-To: bug#23341 <23341@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2025 05:34:21 +0000 retitle 23341 x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, = and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable reassign 23341 emacs submitter 23341 Cl=C3=A9ment Pit--Claudel severity 23341 normal thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 22 22:47:45 2016 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Apr 2016 02:47:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43525 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1atnbl-0001pT-Or for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Apr 2016 22:47:45 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:50065) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1atnbj-0001pD-Fh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Apr 2016 22:47:44 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1atnbd-0006ZQ-B4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Apr 2016 22:47:38 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:33085) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1atnbd-0006ZM-7k for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Apr 2016 22:47:37 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41033) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1atnbc-0007BG-CQ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Apr 2016 22:47:37 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1atnbZ-0006UJ-6U for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Apr 2016 22:47:36 -0400 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.130]:63408) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1atnbY-0006RR-TR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Apr 2016 22:47:33 -0400 Received: from [18.189.83.142] ([18.189.83.142]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue003) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Lb6pZ-1bZi4h2DAP-00kf8G for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 04:47:30 +0200 To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= Subject: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable Message-ID: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 22:47:28 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="1LaBwqa4KT5B2Ko1HThOvRkr7MLS8gO4k" X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:NI8qap/FLZXIBdoyWGv5SmaT4UBfXgsQhSSJiWymV1PVRrqL4EI vrfiYEuw44VdW45S0OZli1/9kD6KN5jaFa1PZtgbOA761rn4qqiIxvRqjWiU8uXJIWdN2F0 LJV+mtL2d1yWVPWhIJZVV9goIUQgF4XvBUx2cEz7CNwHQo9AOYRUNtll3QGBwr3nTygM1Tg aUHeP6rR0G5YFG3WiSF6g== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:l4dJnVlgWmE=:9BK2DOkpg/NKjAKMjesVVf H8APE5OfNGuUeOLqE+FiRVrFxbCwaUxb/NxROC9CAY/RFxoGkVz3DzKScQxieeOXw1dPqJyVL yWx0bCrHkLGbfz810S9hPSpkX7W4DP1Fum1G+jwOJ8ZhD/ZLxRlkInSX//lY9MxuG7XK0zAMF FjKIoACztiWwOTBZPVoY1DCzhGULzEWMMOTtWpEKDryVP2Re+LenatjQnDb71efNmdEPHJSez gprD/CZR63EO/lcfEGkeOvvdtkPfAElFTJfgmmZEbWpOabW6C8KRm9VSaavc3o6qZXIA0o5Ly cfKJ4mMGrMAsERl4oYJ9MiyNe1y4ZAIIIScWLovJRqDgBBPAq65tHEl4gvZclxn/Jrg2t00g7 TuJaG33ue3QkJkwHVdr80Egqq/6Chz+zgzz0/XzGti9+xxJcokeo6S7A9QBv6glQLWfOGKrjS Cd3XkArsiUOZddCc4bA7iAGJH144euc9Y6lfFI0LRx3SJy+IOl5Mf4465A9msPpIGBtfrS/H2 AlZxsjoS+vw+XGlzEazBIuNi5XID6Yp5jAHmATqa3HoHXx9t45HPWM5kGQKdLdf5/ZvrJUa+0 +hSjmlrpBRYObEumprv95TeuVJi8VOf8TB24Uo6oTgwCJ8V14YfYzZbzHgLFwVE9T8syfHewI +o9KxvGFYtqRKE6Ipyiix170VxTRUHszvLifMf19pbbuxAe0OE0UM9+g8f905X+wlyvE= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --1LaBwqa4KT5B2Ko1HThOvRkr7MLS8gO4k Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="j2A3q4dgdttXtrsLjs8tqRvSd6I47Xi5w" From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-ID: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> Subject: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable --j2A3q4dgdttXtrsLjs8tqRvSd6I47Xi5w Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It would be nice to have a lisp-configurable default for tooltip timeout;= currently, it is hardcoded to 5 seconds in x_show_tip. There already exists a variable that could serve this purpose: tooltip-hi= de-delay. --j2A3q4dgdttXtrsLjs8tqRvSd6I47Xi5w-- --1LaBwqa4KT5B2Ko1HThOvRkr7MLS8gO4k Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJXGuJAAAoJEPqg+cTm90wjyCgQAJK+mQDo0tYm5OyzY/d4bf4/ IUftO5XSPxXCPTgg3tL+32mdoYh0O3bOMi2kr0OKbiKqdjk79a5JxAvpDWSn4Va2 gprMntrjHYJC7H7N+XF1DL1/3IQL6o6ggqYOHkOi2pjDy4Sba+V7c84oVKT69Pq9 nbXFcumAvZM08paru5joapLTuXmZz2xCfr+2Mh9uwYJNodkWHR1oaToODsCM/VSy j4zIHTTs94B+U9r3jRMXtKzfWl7C6ckZ5axZJt3BQkCwh++1i3oh0TqNkcRf6DSK yF2h9ye4TPjlBerfOdqSECHIs5wn7SLIkZM3RuWg7DSoi0z8SiSKEljuW/ll78kn NoAka5Uh0URMkdI5aS1lFJx8vmgcKFByk+ohx59n5zr+sFgn6t7NFGQiN4+1FX5O 9or7cxjl0HxG3kxfz9bhoPtqGqaCpWH7Qa6tVavRlcGRqpizasPenVeLh5j7vDg1 Wpy0Z6a1ZxMDxzbIr2L68Q0R7r89KNfVXdgJHnW7FhskvukZmAEoKK1SrVusZ6nE bvShKhrM/DAIlc7XSQaL8T/lQLxmUNoUojW1BHaXOZxmiWNlS36Bbc6SNwuknCLI E4bGLYDYPM5I+v/83EzOOGTQ4K6nM+nylt6YSKUDS6CfFxk0xncAqjMwYkMpBm34 Ue55bZHiSasg/2eFFqqh =EMA/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --1LaBwqa4KT5B2Ko1HThOvRkr7MLS8gO4k-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 23 02:54:26 2016 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Apr 2016 06:54:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43563 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1atrSU-00018N-6r for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 02:54:26 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:58490) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1atrSS-00018B-P9 for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 02:54:24 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1atrSK-0001YM-5n for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 02:54:19 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:37799) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1atrSK-0001YI-2M; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 02:54:16 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4839 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1atrSJ-0001Lw-BT; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 02:54:15 -0400 Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 09:53:50 +0300 Message-Id: <83eg9w6cjl.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: =?utf-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment?= Pit--Claudel In-reply-to: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> (message from =?utf-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9m?= =?utf-8?Q?ent?= Pit--Claudel on Fri, 22 Apr 2016 22:47:28 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: 23341@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) > From: Clément Pit--Claudel > Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 22:47:28 -0400 > > It would be nice to have a lisp-configurable default for tooltip timeout; currently, it is hardcoded to 5 seconds in x_show_tip. ??? That hardcoded value is only used if the optional argument TIMEOUT is nil, so I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 23 04:13:43 2016 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Apr 2016 08:13:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43578 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1atshC-000319-Og for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 04:13:42 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.21]:58239) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1atshB-00030w-62 for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 04:13:41 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.101] ([212.95.7.18]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx101) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Ll0tl-1bU2OG1Ng5-00ajZW; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 10:13:33 +0200 Message-ID: <571B2EA6.80906@gmx.at> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 10:13:26 +0200 From: martin rudalics MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?UTF-8?B?Q2zDqW1lbnQgUGl0LS1DbGF1ZGVs?= , 23341@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> In-Reply-To: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:aAoGB+yrVtsh0aIq7V2gZkUTFWiIWLEYD121mUJbyO9zhAr8pCx 2JVwdr06GvrxG9ldpKu3Fi2ehGKvvMneJ3r5A5t08TsonLDGNxZLrQrADNHuOsvToRHLJOD BUh55IMK6NcW96DLz1U0D6t+FHdLklSheWltz+HjKjAIbz9gYuhCqEZfYa227rU1TiOJfHC WZ3Mhejw1PVS2kOHN83kA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:FLNnLz5g9PY=:er2kcJtVxZs+OgGc8Eav75 2UExeWLd69Nmerhb/MiY5EO2YwVF90OLBmxhln9H6gduLPBlqd8QWR+PJ94zKl2TUUPYCqtsU ZIrktIT3dLBpgY9W1Exd/nvb1edlh3jlldi7G9bgxM63+C/c9naxBUo/tCatptUP2TFHYdoGa ObOgAD31itW/Up5v4tt1YCGMD9vqzYefhdBsKsELz8F+Y6Jtg+GBio/JPjJbR9IBBju43iZ+N Uo0pmkrkza1anfdIaSK5wcsFZ15c4n68TddCss5/ieag8N/tm/rszRxd99JNRl2zCtLUJHi2t mpkX3Tvidvo6f1TYJaPcJ5P2w4RBEl9djlKxnpK6Kmyxoa5SEPTWAbYbJ7TViuCccrm79e7cq Shaem6V2h8w/G/4o9ZQVn0GcrAbRaYvI9G+BnMW8iqFdKXPjHGaehNoUTCSp18AiFfdcXgtAS 8iEXLNNiUZhbM7fZw/8m1pmjsmVQyw6boFLd8lBerx4tSrgRIUaH+RL4zblaYzwxWFHZfY299 WcbupZWK9okUwgOuE3AhiCNf3WQP651z8Jav3f/0WAKt8UBRFP9PfQ+QdSfq0DxXTLATb13Bi qaR2kNoNSutv0u15LMQEGXfBvEkHtBhwmkdRvC8SmhrkHQNz3jeIqEc9LnABoribT9l6wLu2B lB/bLSUtP/OUlojmvINo9/VyDQdY3+yPDOqLahQLH1ZM/gyI4zwcBpzUAhribRGYM+Wf39Los dNm37gyM+9fcOcv7vmdv3k1GDT3mzfSfJ5VxE9zt5/ZbkdCuyVQZ+h1irpt7k1RnH0Uw/dybG ap85E2u3ERQBzoIzSgw060qSvtX6g== X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) > It would be nice to have a lisp-configurable default for tooltip > timeout; currently, it is hardcoded to 5 seconds in x_show_tip. > > There already exists a variable that could serve this purpose: > tooltip-hide-delay. A function that calls =E2=80=98tooltip-show=E2=80=99 doesn't have to care= because the latter already uses =E2=80=98tooltip-hide-delay=E2=80=99 as TIMEOUT argum= ent for =E2=80=98x-show-tip=E2=80=99. A function that calls =E2=80=98x-show-tip=E2=80=99 directly should genera= lly use =E2=80=98tooltip-hide-delay=E2=80=99 as TIMEOUT argument. If it doesn't,= it should provide a customizable variable to use as TIMEOUT argument instead. martin From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 23 10:22:20 2016 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Apr 2016 14:22:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44157 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1atyRw-0004pH-Bj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 10:22:20 -0400 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.131]:54329) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1atyRu-0004p4-KV for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 10:22:19 -0400 Received: from [18.189.83.142] ([18.189.83.142]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue001) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MOo4s-1aq8gs018Y-0063mz; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 16:22:12 +0200 Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable To: Eli Zaretskii References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <83eg9w6cjl.fsf@gnu.org> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= Message-ID: <571B8511.9050207@live.com> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 10:22:09 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <83eg9w6cjl.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Egk3pd34crm4s01JccehwtX5JvXfkUTo8" X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:U8e5Kzao87RWXo1ieYu5YTxIu1frLlSNxKYWzgB4FFk+mURZr95 N0HajzZjUSAI+h7mRXqiHi5AtymKeg3qH5IWu+aFO3DeOY/BtCXWYw+RZIiQEY4xNev9SPz dniSdTwLjbKtTSP/MxS7CsQz33u+F7Zw90Dk8Nkbcb2vpXFKWCBUq4hfbHoizvCua50vNIr 3q0Fry/8f1pcegRfwKNng== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:Z3CaVb1hfzw=:G+EiWQU/GevFMIM/o8WOO7 oenFCnVQEDMQafqn4xNAfHr7zyyRmHVTfr2tBciWgoQ654OYi89JZgqWSUBE2/NNPJ+i43B3V j+tvHWWVv17C90ZyO5DvFPK2TG//dugTlgnfEmhyTtlpc29DNIjQuk5zEyC8kVPv+wYD8Ttcp dhwPChnEx2xEdqJARTMIBeKRJVrUxQlOEoiPcrlImqWqfZKyLrrezdtN6qS5ZiYIfHIfFpHrq Ww1Le/uoFUP/T8cIXVvas76FLOnDvp+sLEn5IB81uZPkupNLKi4+wgN707qoXSiAIwsp9T1Pj ppEu8g1LWxGIzCOBHb2tnn2gTmCi7xUYWpOLRyQgeu9BEpX8TpJfCMnQCGHTk7kNfx8PD2f9T aFP+b6o9juT3at4cziyMzYUF7VG4sn+h8pfXsUjKqq8gc1uH/0IqYyWwdok7SbWRVKluX6MBo KVPhWHpwVEGh6PhCkl6vpfrg2EFZTUI0K/FZHGvPoGRalJkbWUqe3apwe9ADKpRVInV2c9jv7 HQ6TEuHkweFZ96RjJfoKtGUOjHaKdJ/WIUiz/F4+4EHNyJESdVbfnICBlhfaQLr8CXYmM+PSn B+p2xH7lj/2hjvpskbPw7v3oTO9b3XCVYykwBnAnI/5cblPMuXbuYc0Kq3b8vMmMwMKizrldJ BxQnVVMTZtfQ2JCjJbrj6odwbzR1D4fM54CgdDDKaNw9b33OStq2yonxcbV9iIJ2C8Yg= X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: 23341@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --Egk3pd34crm4s01JccehwtX5JvXfkUTo8 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="oosMGHqO8n2aErvgSArtspCP4rMhgpSkH" From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 23341@debbugs.gnu.org Message-ID: <571B8511.9050207@live.com> Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <83eg9w6cjl.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83eg9w6cjl.fsf@gnu.org> --oosMGHqO8n2aErvgSArtspCP4rMhgpSkH Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2016-04-23 02:53, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Cl=C3=A9ment Pit--Claudel >> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 22:47:28 -0400 >> >> It would be nice to have a lisp-configurable default for tooltip timeo= ut; currently, it is hardcoded to 5 seconds in x_show_tip. >=20 > ??? That hardcoded value is only used if the optional argument TIMEOUT > is nil, so I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. I'm saying that it would be nice for users to be able to set a global def= ault that applies in all cases in which a package uses x-show-tip and doe= sn't pass the appropriate argument (or make it user-configurable) :) --oosMGHqO8n2aErvgSArtspCP4rMhgpSkH-- --Egk3pd34crm4s01JccehwtX5JvXfkUTo8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJXG4URAAoJEPqg+cTm90wj8RMQALuwqIM51YeqslSK+WFiSTVG c1MQ5eIyUh+rCWJidOlO5ATA6NH0cArAhbVtwFKPy4CcqIx32SFXe1NBh/pi7CYN WBojRK/FHnxcsD5IYFELlybjNX2JPZZu9+1dRgLoFwKrTaKkrQCXxNSSnzawn2ws 1YUqJ0OlPtUWUsM1nO42eshgSFQpmtl+XgfFI3LmM/+IoI9qPY4Cjk/Z0gKGUR+/ yYKCJcPC2Yg7sJ5BWPcG9TVYmTp/nyl0GgSZoMks31n3qJmjMXVtXHA9jziQbXbm Rq9CJzO/w/r2NxpeUEhXec7EIqkmynaSWHcp5HHcWDefK19nxafqppJCovJA6LYK DoT0gXegvuIirQFlkY17dbgeogC14lipCTrCsQ4jrIPnCq7o+WRvnMAF9JPqpXtK Woiwkop42tbG6CmIvbP930r4C8GIr2BF0cdV0037lMzG/ZkB6jfnJMbJay7nHF25 KLUmx0xkqNuPrDD7adifQOESTwI3FMUSa8GFd6cltfeLjbkwhnwVlHvSASH6fTWl 9ybifPySrm0covT3S1v6EQS4MXBBQzDTSi93GOJjTbkwZVnRiThWP2xsoGuvyuIz kEVd0z9xqQMC4kLyfKcpWQhjJTirlxrGhUHRc7lt4MWDvuVgidKz6GxrVua1erFb XKgZ9ifRwkz44uqZmk+D =nlfm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Egk3pd34crm4s01JccehwtX5JvXfkUTo8-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 23 10:28:09 2016 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Apr 2016 14:28:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44161 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1atyXZ-0004xI-0s for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 10:28:09 -0400 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.130]:65062) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1atyXX-0004ws-9h for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 10:28:07 -0400 Received: from [18.189.83.142] ([18.189.83.142]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue003) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LehKM-1bVq7K44Fi-00qQaQ; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 16:28:01 +0200 Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable To: martin rudalics , 23341@debbugs.gnu.org References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <571B2EA6.80906@gmx.at> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= Message-ID: <571B866F.8060401@live.com> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 10:27:59 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <571B2EA6.80906@gmx.at> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Ci6snAm06n9S3s0cJ54WpdKi7e6RMHIi7" X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:VmNMO/1r6/eNHQShFkqruIljxFbFEdcQkRsMnrBZLACML4IIfTp v4PCZQpeY6v2EXL4j7ZrlBUzx18LETwlTDjOly/w1dSufNXsVFxQ6/H0F3zraYvp2Fym1NU 6DB4nVSg/TTvtgvK228ESuTjPVDdIbawND+3wac7RbBch0A1nFkROebwEcY6LnsJzvbxWMy hl3kBBPM/YQ6aKdh0S0Gw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:MNQq96EehTw=:JEm6HCcEormp76UCoQ/+vo Zeiee/KNXB3O5KTKorCtfY3wzGzXdlDdAhC/dF2S5iqBmLXaOyZj6dCRxnXlI2wSZp7A4eccl YQluOm+EbNqJh+AB+F2ZX7c/n45v4ZoVOt3pFtypwllB1mtmcSvY5hDaXP0Wut/85RW3JapR4 Ntols1XFhH7lPyu02SvT7tOiNcrBYsf4/zv+yofumms9+W4UDHDL2jiUMkSYFMXl9qXbQAouS tiViqve6lwkp6AysEsh+YT/NkJwufHOd97VlH9JiricpSgKvVLtIhPDKP8qaac8kqeZ1WpgWk OLFCPYl0k5U89QygC9rC5IAM8dMCPyuYuJ2b06aWR2gbNKxCn8uI+DN0zAyDOLgLCHVL31Z2E 7clgIgThYcyXy3m5e2UUyRRleXq4gYQm+k/uKFA1Tpu7Or2iYjxiFblF1ERwm94V1EsTZ7nXq 0zL6KUVm+X8sls7XX5BhKEp6VAzHBknems00vASChEelvZ4neELaXFDI6XA7BL/TAaXYV6BsC 8mwx+N5uefCfuYovNz5fORtwHVirOQxIj6fIZsZosU8fBtRKfbgn//ZA9jpc2D18whOu6nn90 NmRyBu3TQ7g6rt3srK6Z+3ZvMMxjYH2J2S1Y8vR1C/JAkqXAESVM3HwfNhMTcVO03Dzt4ZTlV lS2+3BctDfNFge6StZe9C+RGtCEbLhjDDQD5ecAbbAS09UfzHX1VwQoCrPLK0/WvJGmk= X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --Ci6snAm06n9S3s0cJ54WpdKi7e6RMHIi7 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="5LUdus3DC7QkNeRCu0Mpmeoac6aSR1LhD" From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= To: martin rudalics , 23341@debbugs.gnu.org Message-ID: <571B866F.8060401@live.com> Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <571B2EA6.80906@gmx.at> In-Reply-To: <571B2EA6.80906@gmx.at> --5LUdus3DC7QkNeRCu0Mpmeoac6aSR1LhD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2016-04-23 04:13, martin rudalics wrote: >> It would be nice to have a lisp-configurable default for tooltip >> timeout; currently, it is hardcoded to 5 seconds in x_show_tip. >> >> There already exists a variable that could serve this purpose: >> tooltip-hide-delay. >=20 > A function that calls =E2=80=98tooltip-show=E2=80=99 doesn't have to ca= re because the > latter already uses =E2=80=98tooltip-hide-delay=E2=80=99 as TIMEOUT arg= ument for > =E2=80=98x-show-tip=E2=80=99. That's true :) > A function that calls =E2=80=98x-show-tip=E2=80=99 directly should gene= rally use > =E2=80=98tooltip-hide-delay=E2=80=99 as TIMEOUT argument. If it doesn'= t, it should > provide a customizable variable to use as TIMEOUT argument instead. Maybe, but this isn't a documented convention AFAICS, and it's inconvenie= nt to have to dig to find which default to set. There's tooltip, pos-tip, 10 packages that depend on pos-tip, and probabl= y a bunch more depending on tooltip. It would be nice to have one setting= that applies in all cases where other customization has not happened, in= stead of using a hardcoded default. Don't you think? I opened this issue based on the experience that it took me some non-triv= ial amount of time to figure out that I had to configure flycheck-pos-tip= -delay, and not tooltip-delay. flycheck-pos-tip follows the convention th= at you outlined above, but that convention wasn't obvious to me, and does= n't yield a consistent or very nice experience (any time I install a pack= age that uses tooltips, I need to wonder configure its timeout, unless it= uses tooltip =E2=80=94 which I can't easily guess). Cheers, Cl=C3=A9ment. --5LUdus3DC7QkNeRCu0Mpmeoac6aSR1LhD-- --Ci6snAm06n9S3s0cJ54WpdKi7e6RMHIi7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJXG4ZvAAoJEPqg+cTm90wjWiUQALTbvMdDQzguz0imRFLTXaxJ F4HZI7B+jiDq2L9k/LcmiJ42baYO2ocz20Q2/9bcoPO0/af4kdnV9t4f+3IOu7El kfKvz/AizQe1MNt52Qfvk1AyjfoPzNmm/z6kZ3H8+NYcxerklVJHH123DCR4wLrh XmXsKX0fs6OlN+SMdh9UVNRtMoZCqjyopm2wvaQ4nt/wanOKcV2YUfaxHfbqi7G+ rs53kNA2xPtXuYJb6J23Fx0Gsj60RIJL/ahtrTs7gsZ7SjcNVGmm1MRo8yV/3BHO bk7PEyLqRqaXu8Hq/jWwsrvoU7iTXKtt5kFmHf0VhPkl8LTr8M7FTmaxg2muGFky LbA/qv0em2ShA849BzruKcVR+TwR21skzXL27lz2SBREy50zk7NizbFa1iD7i9u0 nxxHCdrjJM8XjdIbm/yfaruup6cl3Z0s9EVsHg2GnqyDM6oj6/4H3xiONAFXvNLl N5Ky1U/7zFDDFJ/ERPuxzxD74wZx1Im0taWas93kwiUqP6YjNdXXLaVimCC0qo0a Fd2AboOtbPycKYjrBObsF5PpoLNLisezkOY7Bs8ritivl1RXGyh1Oh+rWU9/bhMp pqxLM9nCuUXoDcEb6LDSIIyRkqhw68eQ4LZVS1dkGsn8wKdbHhALDJ1vl4a+sImh L4Q0r79VyvRcZm0l74fU =6h3j -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Ci6snAm06n9S3s0cJ54WpdKi7e6RMHIi7-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 23 10:37:14 2016 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Apr 2016 14:37:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44170 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1atygM-0005Az-5E for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 10:37:14 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:46992) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1atygK-0005An-QV for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 10:37:13 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1atygC-0002JF-Dx for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 10:37:07 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:44121) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1atygC-0002JB-Aa; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 10:37:04 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3361 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1atygB-0002aZ-Do; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 10:37:03 -0400 Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 17:36:39 +0300 Message-Id: <83y4844cjs.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: =?utf-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment?= Pit--Claudel In-reply-to: <571B8511.9050207@live.com> (message from =?utf-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9m?= =?utf-8?Q?ent?= Pit--Claudel on Sat, 23 Apr 2016 10:22:09 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <83eg9w6cjl.fsf@gnu.org> <571B8511.9050207@live.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: 23341@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) > Cc: 23341@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Clément Pit--Claudel > Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 10:22:09 -0400 > > >> It would be nice to have a lisp-configurable default for tooltip timeout; currently, it is hardcoded to 5 seconds in x_show_tip. > > > > ??? That hardcoded value is only used if the optional argument TIMEOUT > > is nil, so I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. > > I'm saying that it would be nice for users to be able to set a global default that applies in all cases in which a package uses x-show-tip and doesn't pass the appropriate argument (or make it user-configurable) :) Which package(s) do that? I think those packages need to be fixed instead. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 23 11:27:09 2016 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Apr 2016 15:27:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44185 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1atzSe-0006I6-NW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 11:27:08 -0400 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([217.72.192.73]:61511) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1atzSd-0006Hi-0T for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 11:27:08 -0400 Received: from [18.189.83.142] ([18.189.83.142]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue102) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LbrjI-1bcyrQ2IE8-00jIEV; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 17:27:00 +0200 Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable To: Eli Zaretskii References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <83eg9w6cjl.fsf@gnu.org> <571B8511.9050207@live.com> <83y4844cjs.fsf@gnu.org> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= Message-ID: <571B9441.4070403@live.com> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 11:26:57 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <83y4844cjs.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="T5hKvTT7o4lmfERQhJMklgP8v2MXuflfx" X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:SR6Jxj0LFJE02Ke7KCcz64QU9xoA8G1eMQ0/ZakqO5QG5RPuFKC +Tq7yYNvIA+9qVWB/tKRz5qQwagEATjThSQv8pFK3yGP6/pNW00YFRYEJ6eDf3mT3IiQ2Ev HYaakbJhdBVxHMAcIX+LFNUJsaPpZaSi9+nqWIXiOzuIgqIx5nG9n+id2m8+nWPU9uxiJLf 6/3b24aAGSUFEyZ9xdK3A== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:KknAepH5XY8=:o2vLlc/OaGO+FB8Zid8MeO kdwfmrCAi9nSLILtujf8FgUkXmsDRoKqMl4upoJwx0cMZJe5fMLhRh3/KFmRk+roZ0xEl0cpT foGPYNFiVeZktyFy35jtB/+nQoPOdMqnqwH/juxwbUC/tu9JB6cAhJ0p+15k5cJ82baO78G7r oj1SlEjybXPy3ENkS/Xeg5QfmUVMoLnKg9KlLWmj+3c+WGC37eCFsI+vgb+mm7BYh9DrfbPZr X4ufzu0rZWGRkFUfWNFPoLpuYels9jTJF9bmCMT/ECJhFPxYEZhUHNESP74bQd4DfRBC2EwTb U/uHXdYAuhlH1D2xqne1J8WB1+7JuAfkJZnrvUE1JRtI79UOOcyTIStZkKMIdIzpIcA5lxJBu D/tou9QBK+uu6N3Jsc3H4BpMpzkNTD2ePpZceNCfIgb9lAsCjDCtCG7IUTSD2y3jsw8Eu1yp+ XE4EOlb0OhZN1FC5x/1WjgtqqXgduvpIGR2VB4f26iTAXoK4zeXzjOjp6mWW0bB71JtOmwEdZ Apuf7SXYTV5rNKCtbkDzLZ3FhFxUpjlM/R/3cNbm52UZoP2S01LL6NKM7OxietzYmczWg+KQc 6wlIXp0lmQwUT3ozX8EfEC1135NBgLQ40v9fTljPjSVG4yCYgxIkkDDjBODjvuj5N3Cz2E5iy xEseWX/PDtjixeOY3wM9qekF6Ba5c13eaN1tkm/5IP22CwgsxlEPmUkEDKfG4ZB19zTk= X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: 23341@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --T5hKvTT7o4lmfERQhJMklgP8v2MXuflfx Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="l95ABxOf5jplVdW8ll9Ct9NAOHhiuXhxV" From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 23341@debbugs.gnu.org Message-ID: <571B9441.4070403@live.com> Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <83eg9w6cjl.fsf@gnu.org> <571B8511.9050207@live.com> <83y4844cjs.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83y4844cjs.fsf@gnu.org> --l95ABxOf5jplVdW8ll9Ct9NAOHhiuXhxV Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2016-04-23 10:36, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Cc: 23341@debbugs.gnu.org From: Cl=C3=A9ment Pit--Claudel >> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 10:22:09 >> -0400 >>=20 >>>> It would be nice to have a lisp-configurable default for >>>> tooltip timeout; currently, it is hardcoded to 5 seconds in >>>> x_show_tip. >>>=20 >>> ??? That hardcoded value is only used if the optional argument >>> TIMEOUT is nil, so I'm not sure I understand what you are >>> saying. >>=20 >> I'm saying that it would be nice for users to be able to set a >> global default that applies in all cases in which a package uses >> x-show-tip and doesn't pass the appropriate argument (or make it >> user-configurable) :) >=20 > Which package(s) do that? I think those packages need to be fixed=20 > instead. I don't have a comprehensive list; I could compile one, but regardless of= that: I don't want to have to configure every package that I use indepen= dently. It's good to be able to fine-tune independent packages, but consi= stent defaults are nice in any case, aren't they? --l95ABxOf5jplVdW8ll9Ct9NAOHhiuXhxV-- --T5hKvTT7o4lmfERQhJMklgP8v2MXuflfx Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJXG5RBAAoJEPqg+cTm90wj27MP/jquz4AjKTOZmDIDuWjt4opb 4GsOjwwJX16aCGUb505SGDEUiOKjQ+bPVQurqdGs8/x/SSnM8jyCvWLzSaRqzJ6d asTsUE8+s8+v2LJhtxWMFYrMGVvXTLau5ddPDO1NXBUFmXmxqqLQnqNTxRECqYsA bTcGsjOB0/qaE5yD6Gjz8syNLPQ6FCcWWzGwUArUxO8ql+0HM278i/XoJ9rgkmIk g3kyOl4kj9CpoRyo+FvATscIOySe3JFU1Pq5EVna1cGTGTMdddffmQ+Vll+jp7ci i0vT8+IB2E+fKTcmT05lZWcRQgabxEh1Vl7vfOZSKfd5iTxJmxJvWO5ygOs5P8uM PRDIDKHMcnADjTsLo5dYrHVDPshhqXrMSJXwZClBk8xxJCfNxDqHdnFHX7vV6XgE 2jDfxZOcxp/q1M6dyT1C+RyNA6jYT9Yhp2Irhe4TyFUsERTnr+f7WXsD2o8fiMND 4CBga6wjCkdP/ZXskhrDy7Q9qDtGdZJKHrGpfP8NgbCKdLUdWLdxAnnJPJTCmjk5 WNLTf/rwkeO1Ses9XgqqDJfopWV6qj4flLSV+7oqXNpB4a0YoRIQXi0fyelVKEuY pftfeSMNmdbW3rRe8qvzpMyPp14rjVmr5Pcat/MjcEbfP4Z3yb99ZzpByVJkFTWd NHE+MlEtfheZA/0ULruK =7LjT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --T5hKvTT7o4lmfERQhJMklgP8v2MXuflfx-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 23 13:08:59 2016 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Apr 2016 17:08:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44238 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1au13C-0000DZ-UD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 13:08:59 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.15]:58512) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1au13B-0000DN-Pv for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 13:08:58 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.101] ([212.95.7.40]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx002) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Lh7sF-1bXjVv3vOR-00oV4X; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 19:08:49 +0200 Message-ID: <571BAC1B.30408@gmx.at> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 19:08:43 +0200 From: martin rudalics MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?UTF-8?B?Q2zDqW1lbnQgUGl0LS1DbGF1ZGVs?= , 23341@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <571B2EA6.80906@gmx.at> <571B866F.8060401@live.com> In-Reply-To: <571B866F.8060401@live.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:GpWP08Ri4mirlc1gV2gxBXy+v9oaee9magEfdpZOwR3St+eKU/I fwt/qXipeDAB2cltnFdf2quSFdejRKrHupesH33NTbpbGRtmIj9ktd4vzGGl+g0iyjtr1iC w55StIxWQxStWXWuVX6ivUl87lOgGy5S10FDK8aF00uLT+JPqj54yFkBi9gkWWqJRMGHCvv 5bFLplz2eVj5SItGvbeEQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:AaAO1TFjues=:YgpdawHFYrngx934WGexOQ EOzrT300fzJQW6hg3ns+6mvdqwBLG5p7/pg+7nHdKujtxcc/YYPoXIPv2oXeQcQKTYRcXYRu6 pRELT41dKm0b9eeu+pitN/ctHHXJ0J2mMeEQx7L/jbXa1n14sNy3LzOsyv19ySMU6fckCyaac aUA2+aCNDV+X18LBp4y1CwLL7uoeARlV8coFC43LLGmkwLfEvF438QXTBdTuLOnIPlmga/EGY 5m258zT81JJkJEG0qBs6yysjk2/NLnBW8DbmMU6jqnR44Ql3RxZ7PmixVO+4v17PLxFMs5UxD Fpzfwuk6fAtQhVWdfMWiJf5SnrKPMJAotopNiofWpS2vXJ83wdpiQaSNDlfw8AMkePTdRszAZ toyNfmX25tRzwyK2IA8QQblieHcO/4iQG5YmKj/omaVzwdiUqCVYH6qFbRwAd3a6HJ+p3J7Af 8J9FN0RM2Ko+zKEv1TG/MFKqYi3Bq6AFX/mf76Z5uwjpKnqPAex8fvCxVJexWZc3UeCwQZ9qi 9BRGd5p9J/pzexi2wx5tYv1iDli+Ul4u5qm1nUR9y3eY+4gd9zQkvlUPlkgdzPQeVONSgVna2 H88t0KSL5WyH7duXQ5ar6UQsibHdfczgvHOt32mHGxoxqXOWdkqZr3pTyKpTKc9mY8VaRrmWF CS5r+7505o3sVETfdIYB6Rq5dBW4BDy3n8C0d9s1ip9WbIrr6eZ7Q9oJDZJrn3Fwb9IwR+2wu HnjzmDB36UFgpB+0xCTuAd8mmd1/BMlTaOyea5kRMqvwpMGtOEVrwlM+PcDutzov7JGlT+kC3 ryV5bHpX1E4Lc6HvBXWmu2EyVYK9A== X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) >> A function that calls =E2=80=98x-show-tip=E2=80=99 directly should ge= nerally use >> =E2=80=98tooltip-hide-delay=E2=80=99 as TIMEOUT argument. If it does= n't, it should >> provide a customizable variable to use as TIMEOUT argument instead. > > Maybe, but this isn't a documented convention AFAICS, We can hardly say in the doc-string of =E2=80=98x-show-tip=E2=80=99 that This is an internal function; Lisp code should call `tooltip-show'. and then explain how to call this function from Lisp code. > and it's > inconvenient to have to dig to find which default to set. There's > tooltip, pos-tip, 10 packages that depend on pos-tip, and probably a > bunch more depending on tooltip. It would be nice to have one setting > that applies in all cases where other customization has not happened, > instead of using a hardcoded default. Don't you think? > > I opened this issue based on the experience that it took me some > non-trivial amount of time to figure out that I had to configure > flycheck-pos-tip-delay, and not tooltip-delay. I don't know flycheck but =E2=80=98tooltip-delay=E2=80=99 is the delay _b= efore_ showing the tip. Earlier we were talking about =E2=80=98tooltip-hide-delay=E2=80= =99. > flycheck-pos-tip > follows the convention that you outlined above, but that convention > wasn't obvious to me, and doesn't yield a consistent or very nice > experience (any time I install a package that uses tooltips, I need to= > wonder configure its timeout, unless it uses tooltip =E2=80=94 which I= can't > easily guess). Any package that optionally provides its own delay for hiding tips should, by default, use the value of =E2=80=98tooltip-hide-delay=E2=80=99= for that option. martin From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 23 13:26:34 2016 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Apr 2016 17:26:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44247 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1au1KD-0000e8-SZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 13:26:34 -0400 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.17.10]:62239) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1au1KB-0000du-Jp for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 13:26:32 -0400 Received: from [18.189.83.142] ([18.189.83.142]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue102) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M6UrD-1bdJow05z1-00yRWQ; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 19:26:25 +0200 Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable To: martin rudalics , 23341@debbugs.gnu.org References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <571B2EA6.80906@gmx.at> <571B866F.8060401@live.com> <571BAC1B.30408@gmx.at> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= Message-ID: <571BB03F.5000906@live.com> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 13:26:23 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <571BAC1B.30408@gmx.at> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="P3MlCc1SoFctiPIp9RcgROa14A5A2AqId" X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:+v+xj7K/g6v/2tBER0/9BaPaeO8bov68kEyN0EC66xPyetT83ur g31snVuPNXu08Kqmi3OHcayAHvh4VXz1iNJ6ZgrCQMCMIfhLABHFI8JVgb6PQs2WU6K+Noh qOW5koIsrEqJ/PsyEmGlsIJYyeilnUqHcNfqInwSJFJhV8YW/5ZSjwwMxqx+k9F0IdTVArY yBJaoOj2ok6aObPKfc4Rg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:bBCfBYSzyqA=:7FXy83dpMh1TkEFAovokig tHYG4YRfoudBZZRHlFZHjxrscZmq0qCgdQhEuohTB2gqlzjDCcq54tkQfuraJX/Ig/Ff0xbuf TOF+p5Z/YxZytA3I+JrCC1EIShPH8C/tGLbCXKdQ7Vl9m2Qny23rDpBjLkt6W6pVKQ8yWLO9E uOJOpkwm67zqvQW8PKArbvPWCzql9H1ylxp287dXXnPIKFJuiJEKBSpAz1+7x8Q8XLMzmdkLS Ki3pseYVxb3bSZmT3RUm8lWKdJWQExeE/p4zxrIkR+lNXxVDK+MR0wAnuz8ZDa2wDe9k0RlPF ZcSgXecItGNdMrplDpv+q8/PqY3TDpMjW3txcqxKcks10bkBAeUmfnDOpE1wV85RocB8lW5tX HwfTDAXRQmGLuvVjmYxpEcxRqxLE9almnCPAh9ZEpbgD+wFpuEym+KgsYdTg6s8mqiVkC+ekg lKxbWVgvBa7sNANryXm4cLh6gKZpkO4AQ77uLBM7mGj9DsfOAPUxAAdiualM7gATak5auTj/5 b1kfM3ErPn1QatbpU/WCkud2BOB2xKcYotcUgjfWEjcE79uTfDtSTPZqOP9d9IAcUYl3omxdg hYbUCs/IFJYIbqJStkvlYPVUG4tjclD9sUo8v1+g232Bhbhs7K1jL2EBK1e50VVZFb/Sbh9VM MJgYG3NTukL5R+qsQwEuVy1nlnxA79s9DQXGiEAD71MLFr0bVvEW9e/80yXHfdEVlzpA= X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --P3MlCc1SoFctiPIp9RcgROa14A5A2AqId Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="VD6uPdeo06hCAahvtMpoPU3a4Up3SupuN" From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= To: martin rudalics , 23341@debbugs.gnu.org Message-ID: <571BB03F.5000906@live.com> Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <571B2EA6.80906@gmx.at> <571B866F.8060401@live.com> <571BAC1B.30408@gmx.at> In-Reply-To: <571BAC1B.30408@gmx.at> --VD6uPdeo06hCAahvtMpoPU3a4Up3SupuN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2016-04-23 13:08, martin rudalics wrote: >> I opened this issue based on the experience that it took me some >> non-trivial amount of time to figure out that I had to configure >> flycheck-pos-tip-delay, and not tooltip-delay. >=20 > I don't know flycheck but =E2=80=98tooltip-delay=E2=80=99 is the delay = _before_ showing > the tip. Earlier we were talking about =E2=80=98tooltip-hide-delay=E2=80= =99. Indeed, sorry; I meant flycheck-pos-tip-hide-delay. > Any package that optionally provides its own delay for hiding tips > should, by default, use the value of =E2=80=98tooltip-hide-delay=E2=80=99= for that > option. Isn't that one more burden that we impose on package developers for essen= tially no good reason? Also. what do you mean by "use the value by defaul= t"? Do you mean to initialize a defcustom? That won't work: changing the = value of tooltip-hied-delay would not update that of the corresponding de= fcustom. Or do you mean that all packages using tooltips should explicitl= y pass a hide-delay argument to pos-tip or tooltip or x-show-tip, with th= at argument being (or package-local-delay tooltip-hide-delay)? That sound= s cumbersome and error prone: if that's how we want things done, why is t= he delay argument optional? In any case, do we gain anything from hardcoding 5 as the default? Thanks for your opinion and responses! (and thanks Eli, too :) Cl=C3=A9ment. --VD6uPdeo06hCAahvtMpoPU3a4Up3SupuN-- --P3MlCc1SoFctiPIp9RcgROa14A5A2AqId Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJXG7A/AAoJEPqg+cTm90wjJOoP/R9ofjFC0PG7z6/gyZnBEUvF xZa0OUrQqeTM5ujoNA/ysusRlMxpd1/HaoHaEz4f5vpg5LCVwq913KvrblHSIMLe EDWzKAaA5nTne998FzMNqhpAIbHd6p6OwWsFpy9ktbN1VZkc2ouPjf776sGxFIs+ aSvvycuPs2FAgsIq4oXr6DvltN1Pi7ldNpndof4L/Ox9gwbYRhD+0WTKzxKN8wUp H056a6ke9h8oCfnS/Ba5m1pds2qA8PxqGoYmX+76Kb8cbme2sVZTvPc29EAK+8WP 2seXobpTki4sqId/wcCpXHV3AJtGjd/PYrEseJvOQugi4AxD7zrO1Tf2aGPDmCXO bHxefTOY292RMF/rMQF63Ow0ntoBh8jofsN6kxzEEWZ6n7k3mPDvgbjclI1ZJc1I 6QwREKRoVFfxVqd3wbldz3WW2++dfDZ6Uedb2znF/mhbt+QxBICI2/MFNpSYRj5K HxBHOHrsFi1PEpB+UHprXsw3w+rWfVvsBx89eyvDQtvxe6BIO14kuQYVI68rpAOU +Yt4aDkI8cVM8Yl+NR7+mUTOEchs11ZwrCN0nrpN0gFhe7PZWNnzHiQVZHcQG75b WGtuYMC0xg2Yz6LMjwVt1eQGYSaOw5gkKvNgrUx2Xo71b6XRUiAH/TMGSq+pa5Ic C5rOnZGOaYSXbrdGlK0e =Icjm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --P3MlCc1SoFctiPIp9RcgROa14A5A2AqId-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 23 13:55:32 2016 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Apr 2016 17:55:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44264 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1au1mG-0001L4-A0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 13:55:32 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:55225) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1au1mE-0001Kq-C6 for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 13:55:30 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1au1m5-0004Xp-V2 for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 13:55:25 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:47298) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1au1m5-0004Xl-S6; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 13:55:21 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3432 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1au1m5-0001A9-5m; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 13:55:21 -0400 Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 20:54:57 +0300 Message-Id: <83wpno43da.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: =?utf-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment?= Pit--Claudel In-reply-to: <571B9441.4070403@live.com> (message from =?utf-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9m?= =?utf-8?Q?ent?= Pit--Claudel on Sat, 23 Apr 2016 11:26:57 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <83eg9w6cjl.fsf@gnu.org> <571B8511.9050207@live.com> <83y4844cjs.fsf@gnu.org> <571B9441.4070403@live.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: 23341@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) > Cc: 23341@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Clément Pit--Claudel > Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 11:26:57 -0400 > > > Which package(s) do that? I think those packages need to be fixed > > instead. > > I don't have a comprehensive list; I could compile one, but regardless of that: I don't want to have to configure every package that I use independently. It's good to be able to fine-tune independent packages, but consistent defaults are nice in any case, aren't they? I don't think it's right for Emacs to provide such ugly global hacks because some packages out there don't give users ways to customize the tooltips. The hard-coded value we provide is the last resort, nothing more, nothing less. Bottom line, I think the bug is in the packages that don't provide customizations for this, and you should take this up with the respective maintainers. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 23 18:33:26 2016 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Apr 2016 22:33:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44371 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1au67B-0000Hz-RN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 18:33:26 -0400 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.17.10]:54931) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1au679-0000Hh-F1 for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 18:33:24 -0400 Received: from [18.189.83.142] ([18.189.83.142]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue103) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Meu09-1b4jFC3Onp-00OYJc; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 00:33:16 +0200 Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable To: Eli Zaretskii References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <83eg9w6cjl.fsf@gnu.org> <571B8511.9050207@live.com> <83y4844cjs.fsf@gnu.org> <571B9441.4070403@live.com> <83wpno43da.fsf@gnu.org> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= Message-ID: <571BF829.8000000@live.com> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 18:33:13 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <83wpno43da.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="QS25dQ04GIpsd4Br1w3HsogXmk9714ksd" X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:8d7AQ/di97k7c0NfRbUp0A+ENqVNZM+RvuD6tyNbvUTNH+Dpelr 1xwic9RkLg3ro1G8HgrfHUnituLWfHCulcPiCRshhbt6fGT+4EmquB0nmQPMqRn5W0Rs+NA IflLm9QyAcgAH/gqM6aMUBIvWtEbXhi851FqzpkQgtUNesc6TDUC/Pq7vAEFd65nCPXnTFz GfcNXZZJ9z6UqhCuX//mw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:y9G55F7zdSc=:j/4yOoYBmCp/mtjKOvEnLM 648KjmawsFmn/Y82S6HvM3LD4bty5NgXlT5LbaBiZdMDOJHdwgW0MUANYEm1lRNbsViN3JiRn 5IQh6bYYMBwv4pQt8ckpIS7LyhPIGg+LbjFWYoga2JI54FLs5LBDU12SQh3NQDH8Jr6NNkGs7 KfeuV3Ii69v+sVtDqpyHA4DqbDd86inw1Y3cpyphzdkIKavAJM+xP69Z09A2ZpOTerrbCbhFz HZSJqcNsmG4iJpOArkEbDnk9EMwzJKuN+KkDDEfTqq4ceUQlCkFHXNQQL2OCgpyIbCEFewaf0 Rn0NcDsaH2DXzbKpB6cCnCPJRI8WkXP3XTHemFDDAw8wZPzwHgybM/MeE4zf5/AVTZaaBDZyF H3e6A7fZ7w4Mm7bQh/fnvKx04pgQeOBVHP6hqB2bUWg3ElOR1yTZW0rST7yiXXL233B50QZ/X N9q1BcmgMbsxzHfRNSAl2BurIzXRcT+U9SFEWlpx6M8+d2eYbVyZBPN+vr/JUau2H1iayIGpH IAXuwBdYW4As9dQhWtWVQS4YqK+4+qmTI/xumH0ccBRv3x2aTg1XKXKXSp2wlk1JTLnnPV4A9 sFcY/We/4uHisS3t4ehoEH5YNwSIF0rrb2qpeMwv81fR2lhTSbaNf9dtmIifPhf7ymrlgXFnj NzsELcTGTEWcKM4am1EL27HtVuzx0CwUwNcfsG5WzPy5l00yc8tz2UlEmwpnmtsk5gL0= X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: 23341@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --QS25dQ04GIpsd4Br1w3HsogXmk9714ksd Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="MXqB1ngNG8MxduBaI07hnP3tFp1hwgIhj" From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 23341@debbugs.gnu.org Message-ID: <571BF829.8000000@live.com> Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <83eg9w6cjl.fsf@gnu.org> <571B8511.9050207@live.com> <83y4844cjs.fsf@gnu.org> <571B9441.4070403@live.com> <83wpno43da.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83wpno43da.fsf@gnu.org> --MXqB1ngNG8MxduBaI07hnP3tFp1hwgIhj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2016-04-23 13:54, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > I don't think it's right for Emacs to provide such ugly global hacks > because some packages out there don't give users ways to customize the > tooltips. The hard-coded value we provide is the last resort, > nothing more, nothing less. >=20 > Bottom line, I think the bug is in the packages that don't provide > customizations for this, and you should take this up with the > respective maintainers. Eli, thanks for your responses. I'm sorry that I didn't make the original= bug report clear enough. As a user, I would like to have a way to globally configure how long tool= tips produced by Emacs are displayed. At the moment, Emacs does not provide such a default. tooltip-hide-delay = is close, but it does not cover all tooltips. As a user, I don't like it to have to customize every package that use to= oltips to just to ensure a consistent default. Cl=C3=A9ment. --MXqB1ngNG8MxduBaI07hnP3tFp1hwgIhj-- --QS25dQ04GIpsd4Br1w3HsogXmk9714ksd Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJXG/gpAAoJEPqg+cTm90wjAqUP/20r9zOQhwlEEm+1pofR/zAn mLru9r5xLmFM/vc0P6UTKHJyas5SEHMCMYsHRNR2hpllTMFX7zOUu8Aw9oJtbELU pI7mry1xdvEXjuY6QoZkoxMz5kxiB1W/151XtRp+smIdiKTJ91rEniuf/uB7Jlf+ ELco89yEdGzVYcMOUw1NdJ8lQCdy9PfDkWy84IQnk9XPFIns9j87VyuFraewRxFt xAcAXea+OInZbSrxb94/uLUfGK9iatd6LTcCQMraWNTzM3fkyK9jWAgkbVw5PSmZ RhXOxxfEQGM+p9hsnhfMbbUGDJQlslE0bMtG7U9B3kjU5nXDgZiPwdyPqAMpBKWL TfBlwpRItgWaMFFe7gqxx1na2sZcd9K338kl/bIuXxQRlrLZfApCpbJJIDRjKMyF 2EbobUu68htuY+l1s+iEmLpKu3+AcJ+GrKPdWB/OrsLvYnaJY+z2lX6qwZD1+61G 4+FwVKQyTaN0C4a3x9ie5cIDJdU7t4yIpA9cvZsUE9Fh8yZMjMt0LZrP6bR7bEtW DaubCAXp7Phx83vUKzc988x143tBxBJU+iA7Z49y/Q8/eERDRSY+BvdMDfW8UVnc tiT3AcLOZAjTbu4ZfmZ4+OhEZti6bkuKp8KPay6HAmVkR6IO5N+nUDMvTZap9jEf wn2rgeD1WlhYKMFywN3U =e1QQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --QS25dQ04GIpsd4Br1w3HsogXmk9714ksd-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 24 02:08:39 2016 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2016 06:08:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44427 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1auDDj-0002w8-MC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 02:08:39 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45302) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1auDDi-0002vw-7I for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 02:08:38 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1auDDY-0006sC-GI for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 02:08:33 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:56771) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1auDDY-0006s8-Dl; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 02:08:28 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3725 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1auDDX-00080a-JK; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 02:08:28 -0400 Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 09:08:05 +0300 Message-Id: <83potf4jzu.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: =?utf-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment?= Pit--Claudel In-reply-to: <571BF829.8000000@live.com> (message from =?utf-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9m?= =?utf-8?Q?ent?= Pit--Claudel on Sat, 23 Apr 2016 18:33:13 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <83eg9w6cjl.fsf@gnu.org> <571B8511.9050207@live.com> <83y4844cjs.fsf@gnu.org> <571B9441.4070403@live.com> <83wpno43da.fsf@gnu.org> <571BF829.8000000@live.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: 23341@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) > Cc: 23341@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Clément Pit--Claudel > Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 18:33:13 -0400 > > As a user, I would like to have a way to globally configure how long tooltips produced by Emacs are displayed. > At the moment, Emacs does not provide such a default. tooltip-hide-delay is close, but it does not cover all tooltips. > > As a user, I don't like it to have to customize every package that use tooltips to just to ensure a consistent default. I understand, thanks. But to me, such a global value makes very little sense, because tooltips can be used for many different features that don't necessary display short helpful text. Having a single value for all the possible use cases is IMO not a good customization design, as it can never be a "one fits all" value anyway. Once again, the current hard-coded value is not a global default, it's the last resort that is clearly not meant to be used except in very rare situations. Developers of features that use tooltips via direct calls to x-show-tip are encouraged to invest some serious thought into how they want this aspect be customizable by their users, and provide defcustom's as appropriate. Alternatively, they could use tooltip-show, as the documentation suggests, in which case the defcustom's already present in tooltip.el will do. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 24 04:40:41 2016 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2016 08:40:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44468 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1auFaq-0006YU-Ue for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 04:40:41 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.22]:55575) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1auFao-0006YG-SD for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 04:40:39 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.103] ([212.95.7.62]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx101) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Lu3J4-1btFvM1M2Q-011VVh; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 10:40:30 +0200 Message-ID: <571C8674.5050702@gmx.at> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 10:40:20 +0200 From: martin rudalics MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?UTF-8?B?Q2zDqW1lbnQgUGl0LS1DbGF1ZGVs?= , 23341@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <571B2EA6.80906@gmx.at> <571B866F.8060401@live.com> <571BAC1B.30408@gmx.at> <571BB03F.5000906@live.com> In-Reply-To: <571BB03F.5000906@live.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:oxUv4SIw75CjpJjOHhlAWjl7TjzoENtuCzMxMeJAiUTKJ3w7M3u xmNE30WcA8bhtRi0FcvutVib16cWhNytSyHviEneEI5GbhaHyxsIy84u1rHOb3ILYp2WMM1 UUid/0T21bc9kR10/TyT8xvrAulhPDkkFmoZaR90o14I14mw9vPwdsghXXrBQk0CxRbSa6H DwgSuZWgcAkQsdlrPCY5w== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:5f3bxLubyIQ=:RZE0czgPtoyXVurDIbBMog M/+K/SySDqWmUgvsk4sOylCfmxUDSB4AdfrOVDf19aoTk4uv7a58Uj1pYr6Ys5MWQHyb7RoJh dM68I4HH92xMDa2VnSfN+JXeCie/m4b6w0k+UVGZYRcpgia44k9+mp019Z+/mXfjB+DYOEULm 7dty6CN5DVAf/Rvk6LRA+CHPQOQ+2tfCIGe23IZzXEoxKeqYg9WbCdCpG+lJ+uRYAjSh2y9RK y3zmCLwk0lw/QUkPEtNLwDn7d51FcgxX+giqCeV38aI16537OX+LDpFp0+3EFD0Vz6cyBIBQS 67MZHGERAz0AXaXrQ4voncx5unsQhd01EY3FZBDwJTwiUIHFxRQamyhg+t+wD9nPXtNOyMZfb M41vLfkaoipVKbW1MD4XLilkzwB0zCreQeWagiL4s6PUpD5SQGKHpS7x4RaBTl8GMIRv9Idcw f6WScX1ztJPgFUe310Gk6PgM2uAWnIv18aQO53fe2X3rJR3jfJT0bJvZJehBS/IjUOviWp9O7 F9xhJZKi7C4UM49gzpz7s9UZzWhSEkutCx1weTUAl1f8qbf+67XwQnDldxjHhg6Ws0xyYCHJn wG8dX/Zf6cMG88h6GDnl2t+LUim/urUQiQ/Oqek+VvqydqAPX3cM/eJPcD6iImTvOAvLCRErZ wx9+zxlWjW36IvBtEjzC2lQM0IOqUWzX8SgSWwDBWaNjW2ZWTM1u64IPNqe0wF3tyYDu7O2A/ 4hOENwqnBqQ2z8X0sWYBWQBiy9H7P6W4iVhkmaFFGBD2KUXzl1Lr/qHbhMl8lFMrfaM/2NOJA o3TvMQb90wSwLVd4yZVoZAx2OiVgQ== X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) > Isn't that one more burden that we impose on package developers for > essentially no good reason? Also. what do you mean by "use the value > by default"? Do you mean to initialize a defcustom? That won't work: > changing the value of tooltip-hied-delay would not update that of the > corresponding defcustom. Or do you mean that all packages using > tooltips should explicitly pass a hide-delay argument to pos-tip or > tooltip or x-show-tip, with that argument being (or > package-local-delay tooltip-hide-delay)? That sounds cumbersome and > error prone: if that's how we want things done, why is the delay > argument optional? Package =E2=80=98foo=E2=80=99 would evaluate the value of =E2=80=98foo-to= oltip-hide-delay=E2=80=99 which, by default, should yield the value =E2=80=98tooltip-hide-delay=E2=80= =99 evaluates to unless the user has customized =E2=80=98foo-tooltip-hide-delay=E2=80=99= =2E That value should be passed by =E2=80=98foo=E2=80=99 to =E2=80=98x-show-tip=E2=80=99= =2E If you can think of a better solution with less surprising results for the user please tell me. > In any case, do we gain anything from hardcoding 5 as the default? As Eli expained elsewhere this is an internal value which, ideally, is never used. And I fully share everything Eli said on this subject. martin From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 24 10:41:08 2016 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2016 14:41:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45124 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1auLDg-0004v4-0t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 10:41:08 -0400 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.187]:62600) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1auLDe-0004uU-QW for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 10:41:07 -0400 Received: from [18.189.83.142] ([18.189.83.142]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue003) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MJoUy-1atFHs0nTw-0018J8; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 16:41:00 +0200 Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable To: martin rudalics , 23341@debbugs.gnu.org References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <571B2EA6.80906@gmx.at> <571B866F.8060401@live.com> <571BAC1B.30408@gmx.at> <571BB03F.5000906@live.com> <571C8674.5050702@gmx.at> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= Message-ID: <571CDAFA.6060002@live.com> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 10:40:58 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <571C8674.5050702@gmx.at> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="LLLKjdMODhIct5gT3xcuhKQ49Mr29Wi7M" X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:Nq0Y/TROsrhJKqc5YtHOiFVV6z05EVBT8VOft5oL3AXG+L7nLzO 10U6IHFs8Biwy8ASkuRNNd5UTVl51SzZmp3R/6Un5D8j4sfoIo6Iqwa520dgeWfRAD31kCg xU5IgM+x1k/cPnnuoKCaEMO8qBD5pNH0hAeK/WUxW3kctHTM6t3p8+kJ6LX7Ff6JA6FCVls ry46w0SnLkD7vnw/ri5gQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:HJIRKf0biGc=:RuSjLjWDWkNHee5GXf0BWd foPZTedD7PE/gxexdRFKTpGQ/TI+HKtxLdCGVFpML+XuO657chUmGvTiN3NWG8yidto+GpeIa nsiqrUjW/QbeBoEXkwoYHBRLX+gIqcGzqcxhser64JMd8jpAEEyvg5AzjAaUEgDd0WnQluGQN Ouk9KqQrwy7CNqT4289U1U+cl2H8ySmKwY7QL8udJPXGE0wSetJ0LPHAXt1D4724gN0NEFGuJ JtJRWeG081j3fVIXREuBTIQAXl0hBHu+qMvW/hpEtmzX0ro5IQHTEkoKtBqLLHE19n9hC0vq0 KYBlfPGSzmvf2OBqlGGdzzp15OI3bpU1oBBc/a9rraBM5+Bxovnvp2Yic1+zrdKFJMBmu9ClR 5/YMdevxVrpl2ha8stgw/+ar1MlTtsuCfvbKQdEUG+hSlHQ8VmhbLgNFgZzgz6F6N7PlzfHCt JUOhkp28REh4Qps1kphmdJeuJxNenmgmsWaowPCDkaQWBd87PKJOY63VgLs6r/I+JVJRrX5DC H3RzpFJll2GNE3zKaJGCIs9NzxnbLSWFWsJtI2wS8x39GpEVDZBtY80b9di31b7lKdCcaRggg //s8zLNztqlJ62XP8Rq1ZLY8nqXdDe9g80SEJRieDP3Hiuota0D9XHjXRGdM9Eskfu7nTB9JR OxeqgcQndWNc4F4rSpVY0DJQ/8TO9sgCtfAgaotVqPRwffsc1wT/TXON/MxkzXTFtKgM= X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --LLLKjdMODhIct5gT3xcuhKQ49Mr29Wi7M Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="tTnHHgQoN0vfDCNH7UgnqBVsBjUI7dIRW" From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= To: martin rudalics , 23341@debbugs.gnu.org Message-ID: <571CDAFA.6060002@live.com> Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <571B2EA6.80906@gmx.at> <571B866F.8060401@live.com> <571BAC1B.30408@gmx.at> <571BB03F.5000906@live.com> <571C8674.5050702@gmx.at> In-Reply-To: <571C8674.5050702@gmx.at> --tTnHHgQoN0vfDCNH7UgnqBVsBjUI7dIRW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2016-04-24 04:40, martin rudalics wrote: > If you can think of a better solution with less surprising results > for the user please tell me. Isn't using the value of tooltip-hide-delay (or of a new similar variable= ) as the default in x-show-tip such a solution? In other words, what downside does it have? Sorry if I missed one. All th= at I've seen for now is mentions that this was an internal detail. Cl=C3=A9ment. --tTnHHgQoN0vfDCNH7UgnqBVsBjUI7dIRW-- --LLLKjdMODhIct5gT3xcuhKQ49Mr29Wi7M Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJXHNr6AAoJEPqg+cTm90wjgD4QAJ+fKOfdz+UZqZSvjEfPxea8 vhxTih9qC2RB1Rn59MHBIC6g4UDyyPA9ha/I7qyZjHiRYfqBOiOz2bnG0AS0kcBv YDN9nbyyeGFyRoAO/VaynKtKOA1Y/rcsAGM/zp/lQZbl6YrNouUmbVTrelUpYkn+ EaDHag5b4QmZtMPFemt0/gbFu+iN3npbgK0YtD8RnveI4BPMA2jo3qE+FYJ12MK0 UV0YcGGzxtw3Q/wM3kxcx/LPgMqYbhYzxxVXKfNKNC2s10D6fpmbDqKWD93H11kw iytuoN3crpDavIfwX2DspwVr5z7Ol6XdBPh8R1Q+E3mDlFl1RTt/X8iCnTLVO9YI WTbFmNG/f4i/r1TZZUGN6MFmQTkKykcykwZF3Zj/0rAlw8GRZSqRU9y4zZREt9KI ChgFv7T6uZPTal1EGrLANR80UlK4zwEGVeAdKHegO+Z5qU9A2t4Bm485VcHJ9bA0 C/7VjOwRed4gERATRxnl9iLcd8Kqio6VcNHPXJ/3rYX6/ulYct0aCil2stJ0jplS aH1JifwCFVJ0hqZbhK+IWvY6XVcRntWAftMl+iUl+SwkrmOrfsCq+JiOAChf7sGI 6pUXxmff0ScukovSb6qxylh3G4Mpa9VhDdH8EXaueRNj+ylKEPQmINb5n/ackAnI tUS+dP3nt12isP3hi4fw =m5X+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --LLLKjdMODhIct5gT3xcuhKQ49Mr29Wi7M-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 24 10:43:28 2016 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2016 14:43:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45128 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1auLFw-0004yO-DQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 10:43:28 -0400 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.135]:64563) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1auLFu-0004yB-SF for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 10:43:27 -0400 Received: from [18.189.83.142] ([18.189.83.142]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue004) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M4miX-1bdU7p1ccP-00yyzl; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 16:43:20 +0200 Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable To: Eli Zaretskii References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <83eg9w6cjl.fsf@gnu.org> <571B8511.9050207@live.com> <83y4844cjs.fsf@gnu.org> <571B9441.4070403@live.com> <83wpno43da.fsf@gnu.org> <571BF829.8000000@live.com> <83potf4jzu.fsf@gnu.org> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= Message-ID: <571CDB86.2070303@live.com> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 10:43:18 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <83potf4jzu.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="wNVNNRAr447tPhHJePLj41tVTsvuNIC6C" X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:DcN+t25ZvglKezJYcbkEweYZiGWE8omJQR70dHuLmgIzvKlibXR uSYCKq2n9P6kG3/q86qORZ/PBy/TSW8BS7USgGYtJRurgaDST71Z051N7fx+G8DbypwULNP RMBGB3slRzJ/oDEgnL0HwNcIKhZK4npZgjCFSDxkFPe2qjlvvfZPkE475vZ8reD8xfW02kq 55tOJ0+XyWzWqQuWxPfkw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:lG6Pze0LM+4=:v5fVhJlYuYxdLrvXdenMrU NubT2ppny1ZgJUDVytJIpDUGlzDpRZuIarD7NcHxwbmzKPSir6Gc8GoRxagUtGPbBJZkgK9Vb Y+KbJmbrTv1Hc0f/ucMpg1lkBS01FMDgzyzNgflC6By4EMfnfmVRhXm8VQs0v7KgQ+VF32Apq d2V2a1SNp1T51/gWmC55Rdyk0uRkFaU9Q4WSaBCGEsrO9hMAwfw2niidoioYOB4R2ivVaw/li RRz5mneCc3EMle2bWPBb/Usv8DJ0H+0zuDiASLRNZHxVQwXMs/LZnkY1k4j0USoHMOijenH0V +CJdaZKZ6OX+uZq3DEEJoH6G1fzq0OU2wBcAFzm4SI4p4px719d+KLBnlvYZnPLwzHGTX0pOh LBV8rPptlCiyDodjgncerXtJijjiY7WJ9jevfYemi4dp5C5C/4gGmU6yigQx5DyVkJB0NRMt/ B8aVpJA2LE4Aej8j9e48NOBsW5wmqzz1hNZJjjOTiFamWulivwgPGfh022by800fVMMmrLnDA kxsD64S6hB4YBGoX/A4sddVm4Pu5hbrHYPOTO3yZ4u0men7QgaGQFmv5PNDUYzUaYVUIQOspw hlTeaDu6ZD52Ue4Evk5oLJ0wSXshrHDLwfxG24b7SQKbltLqHYy6V1noR7AVNHN64qtEZl30m vXqhL/fM66rkXBdQj7+Wj6lL5A1f1TI3bmGpouv9VIw3jfceEYCdAlVCjRcvzr9Qy8TQ= X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: 23341@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --wNVNNRAr447tPhHJePLj41tVTsvuNIC6C Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="UuK1lX7X74IXcTuDcE1jPNFOSBcwCKc1t" From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 23341@debbugs.gnu.org Message-ID: <571CDB86.2070303@live.com> Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <83eg9w6cjl.fsf@gnu.org> <571B8511.9050207@live.com> <83y4844cjs.fsf@gnu.org> <571B9441.4070403@live.com> <83wpno43da.fsf@gnu.org> <571BF829.8000000@live.com> <83potf4jzu.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83potf4jzu.fsf@gnu.org> --UuK1lX7X74IXcTuDcE1jPNFOSBcwCKc1t Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2016-04-24 02:08, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Cc: 23341@debbugs.gnu.org >> From: Cl=C3=A9ment Pit--Claudel >> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 18:33:13 -0400 >> >> As a user, I would like to have a way to globally configure how long t= ooltips produced by Emacs are displayed. >> At the moment, Emacs does not provide such a default. tooltip-hide-del= ay is close, but it does not cover all tooltips. >> >> As a user, I don't like it to have to customize every package that use= tooltips to just to ensure a consistent default. >=20 > I understand, thanks. But to me, such a global value makes very > little sense, because tooltips can be used for many different features > that don't necessary display short helpful text. Having a single > value for all the possible use cases is IMO not a good customization > design, as it can never be a "one fits all" value anyway. In that case, I don't understand why we have tooltip-hide-delay as a cust= omizable variable, nor why the hide delay is an optional argument to x-sh= ow-tip. But in any case, I don't think wasting Martin's or your time further is w= arranted; I don't want to distract the two of you from other more valuabl= e implementation tasks, so I'll abandon this suggestion. Cl=C3=A9ment. --UuK1lX7X74IXcTuDcE1jPNFOSBcwCKc1t-- --wNVNNRAr447tPhHJePLj41tVTsvuNIC6C Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJXHNuGAAoJEPqg+cTm90wjh7gP/3WSnfoXRKB6qE+p7VCNg0jh 69ODbIA19YHGSQI3jX0omUvLJUPTOHcqb8N+3DGqbMTee2CfjK6JJ/qhT44G9jwr Pv8UZI+PqxYVfM5mPp5SfE6DpUv5itWI4rMmHNmBqi3K/0xCvuxtIyS2bcRC7GqO JuK06zKWODInTq+80jeI++5dT/2rsdu4dLb9I/ae5e1agEsukvVVI1g2ObrG45Ej 8jSUg++E8Nh34snapb/cZfjbS85UpiLv0RnC1qvro/pbQXGvWNMBRu5gCsLJk3Wk gqFpmAmqrwZ0yoDai79ONQl7jWOGNBN9y2v+maDMb2r1boQTt4qrOHJEaMEX33mt Usm1X8jCCzIiHTAvqseL0KzPwUqZUt2m+yIfN0pqBRnOG3BVckKcIIPWikN+YTLU xBGiTfLYSyJx5zOJpKY4rAIxMFXN3+WnTIJLuYxuRxUpRUKEumD41nWkAnHAcZv5 zhDNHAVPqGpob7Zqbpzi1Icrv5LaPts6Vn9Elx366TTPEY7ftCHjh/TZHQPg4awJ rSraJueae2yUFRyBI7HtZJD5fY11tUN4E0QtFt8z2Pdo11oRK4rFmVw99At9yNtY +IG82lxmTJP1mgc4kpQN64UifYYA7qSFEdWQrhUeMATxy0mtqAvmQMKf51qLlcb4 nnF6H3YLSTTv7ggjEag2 =umKT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --wNVNNRAr447tPhHJePLj41tVTsvuNIC6C-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 24 11:58:07 2016 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2016 15:58:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45165 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1auMQB-0008LW-04 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 11:58:07 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39129) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1auMQ9-0008L2-Nm for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 11:58:06 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1auMQ1-00082Y-2I for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 11:58:00 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:35260) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1auMQ0-00082U-VH; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 11:57:56 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4274 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1auMQ0-0006Pg-7z; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 11:57:56 -0400 Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 18:57:34 +0300 Message-Id: <83inz73spd.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: =?utf-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment?= Pit--Claudel In-reply-to: <571CDAFA.6060002@live.com> (message from =?utf-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9m?= =?utf-8?Q?ent?= Pit--Claudel on Sun, 24 Apr 2016 10:40:58 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <571B2EA6.80906@gmx.at> <571B866F.8060401@live.com> <571BAC1B.30408@gmx.at> <571BB03F.5000906@live.com> <571C8674.5050702@gmx.at> <571CDAFA.6060002@live.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: rudalics@gmx.at, 23341@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) > From: Clément Pit--Claudel > Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 10:40:58 -0400 > > On 2016-04-24 04:40, martin rudalics wrote: > > If you can think of a better solution with less surprising results > > for the user please tell me. > > Isn't using the value of tooltip-hide-delay (or of a new similar variable) as the default in x-show-tip such a solution? > In other words, what downside does it have? Sorry if I missed one. All that I've seen for now is mentions that this was an internal detail. The downside is that tooltip-hide-delay has no relation whatsoever to x-show-tip. It is a user option supported by functions in tooltip.el, as its name says. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 24 11:59:49 2016 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2016 15:59:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45169 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1auMRp-0008Nt-B5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 11:59:49 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39386) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1auMRn-0008Ng-T8 for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 11:59:48 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1auMRf-0008Q0-NT for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 11:59:42 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:35279) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1auMRf-0008Pw-Jw; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 11:59:39 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4275 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1auMRe-0000pA-FU; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 11:59:39 -0400 Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 18:59:16 +0300 Message-Id: <83h9er3smj.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: =?utf-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment?= Pit--Claudel In-reply-to: <571CDB86.2070303@live.com> (message from =?utf-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9m?= =?utf-8?Q?ent?= Pit--Claudel on Sun, 24 Apr 2016 10:43:18 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <83eg9w6cjl.fsf@gnu.org> <571B8511.9050207@live.com> <83y4844cjs.fsf@gnu.org> <571B9441.4070403@live.com> <83wpno43da.fsf@gnu.org> <571BF829.8000000@live.com> <83potf4jzu.fsf@gnu.org> <571CDB86.2070303@live.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: 23341@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) > Cc: 23341@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Clément Pit--Claudel > Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 10:43:18 -0400 > > > I understand, thanks. But to me, such a global value makes very > > little sense, because tooltips can be used for many different features > > that don't necessary display short helpful text. Having a single > > value for all the possible use cases is IMO not a good customization > > design, as it can never be a "one fits all" value anyway. > > In that case, I don't understand why we have tooltip-hide-delay as a customizable variable We have it to provide customization for tooltip.el functions. > nor why the hide delay is an optional argument to x-show-tip. Because x-show-tip has a fallback, whose value is reasonable in many situations. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 24 12:30:17 2016 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2016 16:30:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45173 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1auMvI-0000f7-R8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 12:30:17 -0400 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.17.10]:65304) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1auMvH-0000eu-Ex for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 12:30:16 -0400 Received: from [18.189.83.142] ([18.189.83.142]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue104) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MMFUT-1amvrp1jED-007yum; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 18:30:08 +0200 Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable To: Eli Zaretskii References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <571B2EA6.80906@gmx.at> <571B866F.8060401@live.com> <571BAC1B.30408@gmx.at> <571BB03F.5000906@live.com> <571C8674.5050702@gmx.at> <571CDAFA.6060002@live.com> <83inz73spd.fsf@gnu.org> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= Message-ID: <571CF48D.7010207@live.com> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 12:30:05 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <83inz73spd.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="L3LRXKdkv76uVGu83rdsUnvXf7QKKBkJ8" X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:zgkOi1ugbbova+ByXGUjR963a3K7dvzwVXfU8/mLvi2xhpBCxyf xPhi16QR2+W4qjRMskTsuiRU1ouQsN8uVBkyCRu2tFB3WstifcVVIkWtA7LmwYcwodb2EHO Mn86ObCNkxE2z4010bNOntZS+NtajXIx5dQIaYh7yIJvVOMcqSRMcpsvOrOA6TTmYvrQ4hC XrgDqaz/QDBzWGAZxdttg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:8JGBKRwgqMM=:S+TG7B2GmR0jLPaaY8FTeF 6M8PNDQLGDv6BQTQmMr/AWAg0pwK+TuO7LrnE09fkL+r5YjagXeX9GHZNCPsVmVGN/uvEqHhA 6BOBjOW9XJn9jGPISL9rpd1SrPK30j0drTB4XLXKzOOQbiCcQJhRjzDMuxtVHbHGb+cQJpLPZ pNjfaeu2ouuAdEnsdSRhHMio2qR+OHHxB788GuXmnsmEfOQZDIBi+M9CmcZmSQ/EEiJIEMvXA 0US1q9SpdigLovkQvoBnyYt84vVX98kKI4xAbEDXSWCjGnniYTHTakmSojiKC6wFHEEhux+bh c/MuzBU9pZaXS1Nqb246jdYObAQ90uGzAbO4kNUYKsZAb4IZGWzzL+NhV9xG3zaCVmz62Riuy WZfwKHg5uim2GI+E31rAFyWRhebxPet9j0eCQ14tt+yIwHrReLxe/FfAgMS04E3THGVNNlH/o 3CJwkM368lOGge1B3nB9dSTG4yKGp6p3Izqthr8VQImZJ8+TGp5eBWgIM7+DWyXoBD54m8Thl zb40nYjy8pQLFvbeO5r370AwLBjoGxNgs5j8X0ghEaWUXMFosVK3/1iew4QmH34Ie/e5eDy7k gMklJU2qNBV3Z8SKLPWKDgoEgI0goXZHpzVR78zfCu2rluCDR9J3Erl8nUeyqMYN8hF2eutLz bykdTBeNJZVvWHtZ/kzqM0CbYG6OhTOioHQELWkBw7piqmTioqcFryiHPRcZnKsEZG+E= X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: rudalics@gmx.at, 23341@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --L3LRXKdkv76uVGu83rdsUnvXf7QKKBkJ8 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="3frITt1X1XqsqdqK9510Ediw6c1ToatrF" From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: rudalics@gmx.at, 23341@debbugs.gnu.org Message-ID: <571CF48D.7010207@live.com> Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <571B2EA6.80906@gmx.at> <571B866F.8060401@live.com> <571BAC1B.30408@gmx.at> <571BB03F.5000906@live.com> <571C8674.5050702@gmx.at> <571CDAFA.6060002@live.com> <83inz73spd.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83inz73spd.fsf@gnu.org> --3frITt1X1XqsqdqK9510Ediw6c1ToatrF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2016-04-24 11:57, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Cl=C3=A9ment Pit--Claudel >> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 10:40:58 -0400 >> >> On 2016-04-24 04:40, martin rudalics wrote: >>> If you can think of a better solution with less surprising results >>> for the user please tell me. >> >> Isn't using the value of tooltip-hide-delay (or of a new similar varia= ble) as the default in x-show-tip such a solution? >> In other words, what downside does it have? Sorry if I missed one. All= that I've seen for now is mentions that this was an internal detail. >=20 > The downside is that tooltip-hide-delay has no relation whatsoever to > x-show-tip. It is a user option supported by functions in tooltip.el, > as its name says. Hence "(or of a new similar variable)" :) --3frITt1X1XqsqdqK9510Ediw6c1ToatrF-- --L3LRXKdkv76uVGu83rdsUnvXf7QKKBkJ8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJXHPSNAAoJEPqg+cTm90wjCKgQAKvN3+BtS3gtx0D6mqssipDc 35gV9jiKl6pHAddenyZwrYqRkKELfJ5CoGafxOqPqYGFBJGLvdQLagno3+aoqSDC c81F47gfIKwUGRNq9Exdf/1dJJ5s35NU5TfgughQdtWHliOZG8ap6+USOnjZINhF beFm7aJD5FYhrWoouq7xW2+J4cEadc1RgakxNTC6L4hNhV3dYSpDnXBsEBJz1ZZ/ O/b+40oTF7PG7/wJHN6g0AvGNEgSowDqC3iOFXK7stDmTWhFG9zvCO2lKwQzyx47 xn/cfJ4EEeoMPWiEJV5g1ihYkRXiNTHP1cJ+7cRG48AAIxEjLQFAxATiRn0FQ5ug kcBgyYKj1e5HHNV5mpXF4qteffxR3mrFQ1xmCgrotISBTYsq7BRr39BZUetSz2/q EeE94vf3Wbs2FAcPUDvHBWJTMZ8If8Kx/o0lc5fLS9SmwjFhrYFjZBmVPg2jzYpC Jt7NRvpffLskQ7G6IX10e3FtxyFrrtZSU2W114lG4n6IYp8/7UZHHlRAs29eJK6f nn4V+fiRiSCNEu2QvyCXomN/MNiGa2GqaD6J7mi2UODhHH+eG9ua+ierXwucqVpF B6LM8RGveokUuhVBextM8gD7VI1EiQqWETdIhMRLhKsj5E4mqGz5vz1DjgGKD5iC 4NAmoJQbSXIpGJKxSr1g =DewB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --L3LRXKdkv76uVGu83rdsUnvXf7QKKBkJ8-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 26 02:35:23 2016 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Apr 2016 06:35:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47399 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1auwah-0000pW-4e for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 02:35:23 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]:50812) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1auwaf-0000p7-66 for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 02:35:21 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([212.95.7.76]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx003) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Ldq9D-1bcI9D1VXn-00j0iR; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 08:35:12 +0200 Message-ID: <571F0C14.8070404@gmx.at> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 08:35:00 +0200 From: martin rudalics MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?UTF-8?B?Q2zDqW1lbnQgUGl0LS1DbGF1ZGVs?= , Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <571B2EA6.80906@gmx.at> <571B866F.8060401@live.com> <571BAC1B.30408@gmx.at> <571BB03F.5000906@live.com> <571C8674.5050702@gmx.at> <571CDAFA.6060002@live.com> <83inz73spd.fsf@gnu.org> <571CF48D.7010207@live.com> In-Reply-To: <571CF48D.7010207@live.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:R5yHBRhxxEzjF7z7o/P/Ha3/ClqcPGQS/oWQV0qRI9w0ItGMB42 dk0WxuLCkFWIsufdn3dOCUlhnSMSx8PhbXyTAlrOavCEu8VqoYD+OAeJsZzb8Pb7Lc3P9xP Gikixjo8s8Gayad3GmJllN4NHuKjFtQ7uZdrf5vTCcJ+ej82syEEbgWbwbdkClSgWsdaAU6 zHptDvW5Q1UYYlBZrDw+Q== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:zrk46/2Ezmg=:MT5mmtFpD6rQ7h+eHU8+a2 MQAP5I77r5peVCNMl92ZK995E4GFQhXnSLYCOEF+s+ag2cJnYidiRJ+bqU2Gwczfgm6mspXet aehbTb1JfL7IuYJFBAVJL4ZvktiffmcEOmRe/8KNKggRG4bQXyAf+8v2A+4NDCufwwFmBXA9q 6cDBxy6GcuHfWd3CZ9yB+Fd5YWVdXNKXuei+G9sJc4FLf/ffEzvygSUJY0W5M9atdREXsxwJH 12mATlodawo09tYpIwAo7FynTdYIrj8TNSij1zQhkWR6YDHRf4W8A6dEQYK1AY9xqtI0PLXmL r0PXXVcMURBmaOJu5N8lwN3R/C30+rIXISXltXZLLXD7j2HsZnTrXaWQjSs32KdV3Cktmw9q0 IYZmwAieX4Z+tbP2LPv7tmBy7wp6vM4Gzu+R+BEqUMEhxsv7afLPoZlGVu3v6TA5KnYROGXsZ mzg3Meh8AMu43GtkJNfPqMwWlTlp0yvf5tqa+wUl3hAtwuaKA9zjT/npkAJz9/dFRXh74SeM0 NSwATcug6tLv+eYCXc/M4XH70ou+zoqclOeCzSxkREiOGtYoaA6wDHnHtymC6v0TyqPqSyHeu Ym6SBIkcnK1gPaD7sdxVJuT0W6ZcY4azK16gNcBuJJ4cTPQ8/pZFrSqbQSjGIuKNY79B2dDxs C9umBWznw67kT7y1GU5BCvpOrvrwNtXa+lZvnhPRdCq/EuBjqZESctNTNUbQ7WauQu2R9vtyw SXtbWw5UA3S9E2u5DWicO/YUZN/tsxIoEtkBfeBHKOCJtcKUEQ4Whi+VtxIIuDBqkFeDmHkGB KMUdforhLVUzz5wr7svxp5TXdBQPA== X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: 23341@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) > Hence "(or of a new similar variable)" :) I suppose that most clients of =E2=80=98x-show-tip=E2=80=99 peruse this f= unction for showing a frame that displays more persistent information - hence the need for customizing this delay independently from =E2=80=98tooltip-hide-= delay=E2=80=99. I'm currently trying to implement something like tip-like frames which should allow applications to display an arbitrary number of such frames and a strategy for hiding and moving such frames (the latter being the more problematic part). I hope that as soon as these frames can be used, the need for a "new similar variable" will be moot ;-) martin From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 26 07:25:17 2016 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Apr 2016 11:25:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47529 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1av17F-0000fy-JA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 07:25:17 -0400 Received: from mail-wm0-f66.google.com ([74.125.82.66]:33271) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1av17D-0000fj-VE for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 07:25:16 -0400 Received: by mail-wm0-f66.google.com with SMTP id r12so3548110wme.0 for <23341@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 04:25:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=pAMCnPSLJ7aCvfOh+Qm+tJY7sGuo3PN0D3kE69iWIw4=; b=ECLlspNeOoGMQtNRYswxT2azznUfMfj/R/jwhodq+N06LS1Sto+cACNTN4rX5Ybjmv TolWDddexMOzlzxQmV04pgpZclCRc4jqIstWWEIulMXRIyoj5b2FOUT1DKieSvab+aFb GO6aDrslSYG0FRxO5UFsoGB0k7fZmJrygO5OtxYVAOqQ3dUJheALvIR80XTwgN70nXPv HMLVnO/H6y1u1VaalzK2ZJpkKsdU/qz2UbtaHsZd6vIH4jhgVIP5Jicy8UnkDqdNSD1x ZOIEx6STmTV8QmS2+f3w9Hvx3qTEF4DptWlSh0OWrHiJO+aNe8uvfJB4NkcxmwMHvXHG MJSw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=pAMCnPSLJ7aCvfOh+Qm+tJY7sGuo3PN0D3kE69iWIw4=; b=LOVCEhWs2rRNMABnRUOjr2wtvu7gKh2e+oG33Ef4iwLAiS6K+FJfrX4roZtcJgMthz rBCRmTDnL8QCUYNDbhmPNa/9x52p7SzqyIiZt/jfiQKRJbPqet1WkfsVRAtcRqqysTAW cG3Ezh4NUjLNPr2VKXxZUclGGhuYBM4NPZnIdE7thtz8th+EG/O3PtWJE92JGdi4OXTM KZSKT1phhbCNQsJwZ1UUtX/mmNw56zgrI672hiTMOVV+0Fm4HAMBtFALxct5+CGpeVXi nXRYSBMsKZeSYtQ1jEg1rwJgFbVCByR9T5QKFG1PjEIRdROBKvaf0yCqyT3jqreS+P/H TqgA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOPr4FVFMDRZ56VkuKNgwscWv3wzjeWyjcD+ZEaEHu9K2lpOIOyvCP8stLRb1DPDlbYrgg== X-Received: by 10.28.144.20 with SMTP id s20mr3272852wmd.12.1461669910276; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 04:25:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([185.105.175.24]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id b12sm20206494wmb.0.2016.04.26.04.25.08 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 26 Apr 2016 04:25:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable To: martin rudalics , =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= , Eli Zaretskii References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <571B2EA6.80906@gmx.at> <571B866F.8060401@live.com> <571BAC1B.30408@gmx.at> <571BB03F.5000906@live.com> <571C8674.5050702@gmx.at> <571CDAFA.6060002@live.com> <83inz73spd.fsf@gnu.org> <571CF48D.7010207@live.com> <571F0C14.8070404@gmx.at> From: Dmitry Gutov Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 14:25:08 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <571F0C14.8070404@gmx.at> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: 23341@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) On 04/26/2016 09:35 AM, martin rudalics wrote: > I'm currently trying to implement something like tip-like frames which > should allow applications to display an arbitrary number of such frames > and a strategy for hiding and moving such frames (the latter being the > more problematic part). I hope that as soon as these frames can be > used, the need for a "new similar variable" will be moot ;-) That sounds exciting! From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 30 11:11:13 2022 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2022 15:11:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58826 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nkokb-0004mW-Kf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 11:11:13 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:49192) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nkokZ-0004mH-Mr for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 11:11:12 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Z7GJcMstojuX6ZttpYOP2pNdgCtUCAOhcybbuYUJ4zY=; b=qqjkow+SAEc9O/h9gPK+HuvIkh 9AxE7nd3wAkgme3AbEJO77mgKpAe1dUhDuB9M5SbioAPl2rxsGsDwrZFcXy8EJ7bDPwpMLHqnmp8Q YIlNNvyHkp3pi1T0OKF8qmJqzDHScfYLzX8/dYq0dUl93TvWfTLsCwhRXSyWhCe0D8TU=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nkokQ-0000ue-Gx; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 17:11:05 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: =?utf-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment?= Pit--Claudel Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> X-Now-Playing: Talking Heads's _Fear of Music_: "Life During Wartime" Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 17:10:59 +0200 In-Reply-To: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> (=?utf-8?Q?=22Cl=C3=A9ment?= Pit--Claudel"'s message of "Fri, 22 Apr 2016 22:47:28 -0400") Message-ID: <8735hu1u9o.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Clément Pit--Claudel writes: > It would be nice to have a lisp-configurable default for tooltip > timeout; currently, it is hardcoded to 5 seconds in x_show_tip. (I'm going through old bug reports that unfortunately weren't resolved at the time.) Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: 23341@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Cl=C3=A9ment Pit--Claudel writes: > It would be nice to have a lisp-configurable default for tooltip > timeout; currently, it is hardcoded to 5 seconds in x_show_tip. (I'm going through old bug reports that unfortunately weren't resolved at the time.) Reading this thread, there were some good arguments for why we shouldn't add such a variable -- x-show-tip isn't supposed to be called directly, and tooltip.el already has a way to tweak this. But x-show-tip is called directly by various things (even things in-tree), so I think it makes sense to add such a variable, and I've now done so in Emacs 29. (But not as a user option -- just a variable mentioned in the `x-show-tip' doc string.) --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 30 11:11:17 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2022 15:11:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58829 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nkoke-0004ml-Sh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 11:11:17 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:49206) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nkokd-0004mN-Hh for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 11:11:15 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=YNr6fWABcUiOQZoGZlV4Q1IUdBxXiyRncC8KhDTy3RY=; b=WWcKWo1DW7banE6iTmGUmTAXj+ d/LS/nR62bez0UbIs7miM70imwhWAjwnLxsRlMTk8M1Z0QN24mlIkAKg6hWQEX8pkom0f956EqC4U UShcFbX9LT0mlaEgIAeSF56vAcos3X+gZ4YWiAuO08TBKnQRaPnajtkruq44WXVntRiw=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nkokV-0000us-SY for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 17:11:09 +0200 Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 17:11:07 +0200 Message-Id: <871qxe1u9g.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #23341 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: close 23341 29.1 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) close 23341 29.1 quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 30 11:30:25 2022 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2022 15:30:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58847 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nkp3B-0007S3-3c for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 11:30:25 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50388) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nkp39-0007Ro-P5 for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 11:30:24 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:46500) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nkp32-0005i9-FF; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 11:30:17 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=e4Xqdk3Ix6kwAATHmyUO86X8PUMcda0JonTwlNBDzc0=; b=Szi2zt3jdmy9 qkPMQ7sy2Je3zism4YANYpaPT6NF4SdwmbKG+l9ipBJ09mgpkbKP+2ro4anZUGz1dJgIZue4PB3Hd Tp9HR2uXZEYVDFSscq1kuj/Yeq9phM46EerDHbwqCD1swSSi26XaRuRKOGnhOISSCIP6sAuREUQI7 tmwarTteLfs/+M21xn7xzrp7dB0n6HfYflb/9UbEDrjnCF4bMKGA90/hoOK2beNmk8vD7M6G2p9EP 9eK8dZV6nuHrz8bEc3EYF3zvR0CO+wntxZC3gxFHRYRtnUJmEydp4q0Te1FeJ96bGwHK3YTWH4aDn U6RJuci6GuPl5wlu2La5ZQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4500 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nkp31-0001Y7-V5; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 11:30:16 -0400 Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 18:30:21 +0300 Message-Id: <83zgk27fn6.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <8735hu1u9o.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Sat, 30 Apr 2022 17:10:59 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <8735hu1u9o.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: clement.pitclaudel@live.com, 23341@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 17:10:59 +0200 > Cc: 23341@debbugs.gnu.org > > But x-show-tip is called directly by various things (even things > in-tree), so I think it makes sense to add such a variable, and I've now > done so in Emacs 29. It looks like you did that only for X? What about the other 4 implementations of this function? is the divergence in behavior intended? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 30 11:38:56 2022 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2022 15:38:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58868 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nkpBQ-0007fC-8T for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 11:38:56 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:49446) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nkpBO-0007ev-9w for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 11:38:54 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=FyB1xioc5gOznvS5IGVIrrxjFG3vgxI4wgSSHJhSdnE=; b=UTsHxd1i6xMuhCP0rd9PRw2mrG ifIAjYHDYiOPYr7mXxQNoP/fta+rc+VBTzxoJ6zcOB/lqWv5mJeaEpX61VGVz+jXiNo8t+0uSYVoP 3WgsJ/uQ/BEvZjo2ymes11i46bD8D2/xF3tNxw5wmdM2nAkiZLH74KnxeKzRZok4kO54=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nkpBF-0001Al-NP; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 17:38:47 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <8735hu1u9o.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgk27fn6.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAD1BMVEUrJi11nLmnL0aw Gi////+K8Yg8AAAAAWJLR0QEj2jZUQAAAAd0SU1FB+YEHg8mJlMAlbcAAAG1SURBVDjLjZMJbsQg DEVZLoDpBQhcIAP3v1v//yZLpUqtpZk4ed4NIZoVKxFSi4VSzEK1YCEkI4oWD4MARJMSgiWrJVYC 8FLi/g4vAjesCMsQCCqQ7lC1lECbWByYHR4aBXgWxgoRCEKbBlCDqtpSwiNr+XOsFvLR6amvkHNr c/ANIK8tt4nMYn70n2DcOlwyMowHwOnMDqbyTw/FLPydDmDaHHQY9yFQJ5pe/HLG+k5e1+zTmOW0 rxtMjAyPj8Ah0MeuyvSp6r/gv+ULwKKVBB0zfedQlN4d5DUTVbZgd7tcB2MkH9VTioNJb+2o84Xu AOHKTAArTevQPu+hB9Y4CaJAGtf+3gLitbS946sSnLh6TSR4vnGBXaNAS6joS82Wa4mIVbKl9ald 4F504xCP0ad2Ex9AK6QznqDJw6ytt7CB70mdD9SAzHltUDVRdJh5+Hof20Nb+0QBP5cEpqOhWaFz KsM3aOOI3VNsUFUWljDRBRzCBmNohbAbHgmq+kDu9RHgfCYud5RHYy1NgAs9aG7sYKVUHXDAiq/7 piM378sXTdcRt/i9qD8k9dbSbyDy9v8jwDePd3DtvJKNeAAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAy Mi0wNC0zMFQxNTozODozOCswMDowMC9LxAAAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjItMDQtMzBU MTU6Mzg6MzgrMDA6MDBeFny8AAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Talking Heads's _Remain In Light (vinyl)_: "Born Under Punches (The Heat Goes On)" Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 17:38:45 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83zgk27fn6.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 30 Apr 2022 18:30:21 +0300") Message-ID: <87r15ezim2.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > It looks like you did that only for X? What about the other 4 > implementations of this function? is the divergence in behavior > intended? Nope -- fixed now. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: clement.pitclaudel@live.com, 23341@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: > It looks like you did that only for X? What about the other 4 > implementations of this function? is the divergence in behavior > intended? Nope -- fixed now. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 30 12:01:57 2022 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2022 16:01:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58894 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nkpXg-0003jX-Kk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 12:01:56 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:53762) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nkpXf-0003eu-AK for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 12:01:55 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:47312) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nkpXW-0001Kb-OO; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 12:01:49 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=qJWzT1wzCWc3wKhKr+WU5FdQqWwsII6jEEMvBOdWHms=; b=Xvs04FpLqrsk hZRsOffKeYo/V/ZlXqnW9YBCU/m7dv6UGASNDj1D1KLx1gZl1koREdAsP1/t07h6NOhZ8ck5sM9ON YaBFO7xdP8HWAxqr5DA19fJCpKuVdh7hftecpwynIbO1ulBkZJwjM455G8qA84rLxWXNM98LbPYEZ 1mPVbq2QJhc0aC/rkoh7f4Dc15Y+y4wEO2i6VToJeQkBQ5KxtiJayUrvxk4V8YtNo3oKCJ1oh3Vp7 a8GtiIVxIciETwgZWUUOESUiJU/yw5XJ1Sh/QqDHnZi49iRdwidmTjNzEB4sSoOk8OwD7Ctfputs4 n/7rtc6Fj1bd5nng40Cbnw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2459 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nkpXW-0006rx-0q; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 12:01:46 -0400 Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 19:01:49 +0300 Message-Id: <83y1zm7e6q.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87r15ezim2.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Sat, 30 Apr 2022 17:38:45 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <8735hu1u9o.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgk27fn6.fsf@gnu.org> <87r15ezim2.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: clement.pitclaudel@live.com, 23341@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: clement.pitclaudel@live.com, 23341@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 17:38:45 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > It looks like you did that only for X? What about the other 4 > > implementations of this function? is the divergence in behavior > > intended? > > Nope -- fixed now. Err... it doesn't compile here: CC w32fns.o w32fns.c: In function 'Fx_show_tip': w32fns.c:7369:15: error: 'Vx_show_tooltip_timeout' undeclared (first use in this function) 7369 | timeout = Vx_show_tooltip_timeout; | ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ w32fns.c:7369:15: note: each undeclared identifier is reported only once for each function it appears in Makefile:421: recipe for target `w32fns.o' failed I think the variable should be moved to a common file, perhaps dispnew.c? Also, nsterm.m should be modified as well, no? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 30 12:22:17 2022 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2022 16:22:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58919 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nkprM-0004gJ-PV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 12:22:16 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:49784) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nkprK-0004g5-Ub for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 12:22:15 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=hGDtZizgpLKz1mSN7hgt49mdedLrmCBAOHhgN59yYtw=; b=NcUfJRAfw9Egytn+MoXP1ZFm8T AZPOq9znMFlIN1qbh4+uStSwq31xmTXuuiw3uqEEZqRnKxvLQGGMwtnPf/2yYwDWMCOIORY5TcC6+ wzJMUrjLGwjsRVpRHT9OCzngUHYvqowiy+LW8OIt16/w65dpLFIP0mZf+CBxE1Gpr4Vo=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nkprC-0001aP-Be; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 18:22:08 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <8735hu1u9o.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgk27fn6.fsf@gnu.org> <87r15ezim2.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1zm7e6q.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAADFBMVEVPNjWZXVfEvb// //9Q/fqmAAAAAWJLR0QDEQxM8gAAAAd0SU1FB+YEHhAUF/jUJbEAAAGXSURBVCjPPZHPatwwEMZH ix3ITQV7qfeUlrQ0fYrZkO1ZBgmaPbmwXoqfwqeedahLm5MXbFPNU/YbL+nnP+hnj0bfzBBBT4d9 sLpgMgGqJwW5KuD+D6oZMF+XqVOIiyRc0iWSxGeZd60G0GXmWhbfLsPzQmPtY/rMUR5uP1CzaWN1 b7gssgInnfj9uOVHSw4WQm+mb/zoCkulD55802z6CyAA4NI8XRzBpCPL2IstJX40WAbNpf5nfSHg 1fU8hGs9CTnMpJCWqcKH4fcZKWVpdoAlaRdksLnWsoZdTiv8ce8Ao+3Ll+7rSfsEJ4fv0k04Uk+l T1m7izDx1gCyrLpbHeVquLo55a40fEt5yDPzd+9gTl0fiTwVIRxZizMSiY5DYC3ByFqD8xQ6b7SG AQ/NcgUVTS/OJBnPK6RjYSTFj4tEDbM6ia2k/hfFZ9JJvBHPW4o3TGMR6h8/2ZEzfdbQQ91/8dpJ 1T33m3YFtc5MDcBQRXmJMm1P5hAqs/YWwoLRUWfJWrhOex0Rdup8Ws4D0uavma/a/APzo7LZSoHr TgAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAyMi0wNC0zMFQxNjoyMDoyMyswMDowMI51Y54AAAAldEVY dGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjItMDQtMzBUMTY6MjA6MjMrMDA6MDD/KNsiAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Talking Heads's _The Name Of This Band Is Talking Heads_: "track" Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 18:22:05 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83y1zm7e6q.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 30 Apr 2022 19:01:49 +0300") Message-ID: <87a6c2zglu.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > I think the variable should be moved to a common file, perhaps > dispnew.c? Oops; yup. Now done. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: clement.pitclaudel@live.com, 23341@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: > I think the variable should be moved to a common file, perhaps > dispnew.c? Oops; yup. Now done. > Also, nsterm.m should be modified as well, no? Geez. Yup; now pushed. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 30 12:50:21 2022 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2022 16:50:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58975 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nkqIX-0007cc-Iv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 12:50:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59790) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nkqIV-0007cM-Ba for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 12:50:19 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:48020) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nkqIP-0007sV-KB; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 12:50:13 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=ZqQvyAN82a2UMCap9ketBBvRaOMnMAwwkreaBYMubUs=; b=scGgv1p4yob1 VOeACeIySFIh+1VK2tVt+PHPnKUK70JQ6bPwhrNu6eNvU2yKyeuLw88mtVVzQkGrF3pG6z2b+HAh+ rzqNUn4mMvrWByFbL3NXlR2vu5crv7FS9rRWdz4ACO89hl+HLU20MAx7hNpF2IAjZJMT1qrCnyeBu 0EUOPMlqWUwgPTr626l6Ry/ThX1hn0jINP6MRmlPCwQlr2hFO+sAmK6Aux+lZiHrNb1Zg82J8kBGv z9+qPHNleTsxwf/wspC+a7v6OyNFBPwA3ooCFVuIJ+hIU2cHniakA+yslPIU4X3Wk6LZTF1swbo5T efX6JRdkmAhWRMkkzaCsxw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1975 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nkqIP-0004H3-3m; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 12:50:13 -0400 Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 19:50:16 +0300 Message-Id: <83sfpu7bxz.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87a6c2zglu.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Sat, 30 Apr 2022 18:22:05 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <8735hu1u9o.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgk27fn6.fsf@gnu.org> <87r15ezim2.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1zm7e6q.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6c2zglu.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: clement.pitclaudel@live.com, 23341@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: clement.pitclaudel@live.com, 23341@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 18:22:05 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > I think the variable should be moved to a common file, perhaps > > dispnew.c? > > Oops; yup. Now done. > > > Also, nsterm.m should be modified as well, no? > > Geez. Yup; now pushed. Thanks! 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID c20678e7fc49da043119cdde69227922; Sun, 01 May 2022 00:12:46 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <8735hu1u9o.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgk27fn6.fsf@gnu.org> <87r15ezim2.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1zm7e6q.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6c2zglu.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 08:12:41 +0800 In-Reply-To: <87a6c2zglu.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sat, 30 Apr 2022 18:22:05 +0200") Message-ID: <87ee1ertza.fsf@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.20118 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 649 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: clement.pitclaudel@live.com, Eli Zaretskii , 23341@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: >> Also, nsterm.m should be modified as well, no? > > Geez. Yup; now pushed. There's also haikufns.c and pgtkfns.c, which I will take care of, but I strongly disagree that `x-show-tip' should allow its default timeout to be configurable: people will be confused at the difference between `tooltip-hide-delay' and that new variable, and `x-show-tip' is a programmatic interface, _NOT_ something that should decide a delay by itself. So I would rather this new variable be removed, and all the places that we call `x-show-tip' manually be fixed to respect `tooltip-hide-delay', if appropriate. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 01 04:37:41 2022 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2022 08:37:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59468 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nl55I-0008JE-W0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 04:37:41 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:56648) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nl55H-0008J0-8B for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 04:37:39 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=NyC8ZO83ddb04R6CuuaWUfYSgQy95Bt7WQvbI9TF5mU=; b=Ch6GJ8dpfMKnNDvt5vSGlgtGiN 8Gk4g9buHDMIIfKdrxWiOyR5r5VESxtLc8+sO25QgPClYjrDNz6hdjphs8mYksPCUhqfUHmeb3iWi GHaCdyJPerq5mUyFhJGOrjFlkkyFgWxZsey2grdbG3V5MiLpei4bzC947IOe6gOMzAZk=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nl558-00024G-Em; Sun, 01 May 2022 10:37:32 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Po Lu Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <8735hu1u9o.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgk27fn6.fsf@gnu.org> <87r15ezim2.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1zm7e6q.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6c2zglu.fsf@gnus.org> <87ee1ertza.fsf@yahoo.com> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAFVBMVEVwj7OtqrTgzMpk bJKNYGZXPUH///9NM4zkAAAAAWJLR0QGYWa4fQAAAAd0SU1FB+YFAQgLId0bIgcAAAG4SURBVDjL bZNNbuMwDIWfouletJ19rV5ACeN9B1b3A9i8/1VKKfpLMNwY4KfHR4k0QBqTzzFH3hkX790Sc56o gP2xx33yq12kAFpXpbw/OEZyNv4IHJpg1ULM3wQkgA4+mVURjHFRBBya9xdz3CTAuEUV22FQgJ8f LCdgQFsC6EAt2Kba2wk5OBSwbpoPqiB6xAx87YoDA8FMjiPU7eJbV4Fgg/EOGVQL7QrGpO4dFi0V Bu/cOekV/0AklPt5y7enF7kMDtO8i9tKqdQIfO1PzUW+zdPkK9wq8JQ9CpjDvYH1A5ovj8g8NaAN S3qB4vEGUCXU82qfwZgqz4Mzg+kdzDj5v+ATwuj7o4H6Te2SO/rJqQEiO0vdIOAygE2OUmzWHakA cJLePpE1TbwpYBVI3i8bQvc48JEBw/LBbFpXEjbNRw7OKm1zHkAqyW0kCWip80cvylpq6uBMHrre R9rPPsO0PnJsT/txVJCdC0gt91eE/kTyT0rcBnCjq7iSP4eB4U7X81rAX/8CllZpHJeWmqog3l9B dZDz9G/mNeIrmJtiMF/TimwVDOakiibpgvTrKHBNsNbzhF+8Tbbg6oZ1GgAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpj cmVhdGUAMjAyMi0wNS0wMVQwODoxMTozMyswMDowMHkGybQAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIw MjItMDUtMDFUMDg6MTE6MzMrMDA6MDAIW3EIAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: David Byrne and Brian Eno's _My Life In The Bush Of Ghosts_: "Moonlight in Glory" Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 10:37:29 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87ee1ertza.fsf@yahoo.com> (Po Lu's message of "Sun, 01 May 2022 08:12:41 +0800") Message-ID: <87k0b5tzqu.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Po Lu writes: >>> Also, nsterm.m should be modified as well, no? >> >> Geez. Yup; now pushed. > > There's also haikufns.c and pgtkfns.c, which I will take care of, I did those already, I think? Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: clement.pitclaudel@live.com, Eli Zaretskii , 23341@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Po Lu writes: >>> Also, nsterm.m should be modified as well, no? >> >> Geez. Yup; now pushed. > > There's also haikufns.c and pgtkfns.c, which I will take care of, I did those already, I think? > but I strongly disagree that `x-show-tip' should allow its default > timeout to be configurable: people will be confused at the difference > between `tooltip-hide-delay' and that new variable, and `x-show-tip' > is a programmatic interface, _NOT_ something that should decide a > delay by itself. > > So I would rather this new variable be removed, and all the places that > we call `x-show-tip' manually be fixed to respect `tooltip-hide-delay', > if appropriate. See the bug report for the discussion about this. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 01 05:20:09 2022 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2022 09:20:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59535 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nl5kP-0005L6-6G for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 05:20:09 -0400 Received: from sonic301-31.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.184.200]:45432) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nl5kN-0005Kk-Ca for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 05:20:07 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1651396801; bh=JxcY//EPUbzg3RvWQMGnLTZdO2WypT/fDZ9ViPKLi1I=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=dOdapw1c5M5Kjnlu0sG+ii3TMuqfwLFzjNfyhXFgFgKlE5yoK6JobROYWltYS+rGXRFaTumGLsOhmrQkpZwVnW2ioWb8mcSvYJ9bqozQZtF2eBWiVrFJ4YJTDL0MhYpPaI8Zs+3L8TuNuWu1YrmorjRStTcJntsGnrUwiblkr38jfjm8j1oy5/rU8GXA/6evGxUWzg82pae9F8QEpCjuxcbJADupJ0+Ho2na8aDgDYWYMwM1j33/EzWLrhrFpk/MZkhN4+cCtB4jR8tbBidTQlt0vW6VfXeAMmRgnS8sP8MlB2WZPTMX9mV731t/kCd/Kgd98UVd2oerXZjH8FRTOA== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1651396801; bh=R1mOL8hkNDLPQT0XrrTn7LL7W4QvN2M2qLLN4ARBll7=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=TtQ6GIUhbC6WpseMqh8xP57vK89S/7hAD08uXF99U7BU39lD13ZggRuf8Nfr+L2N20BA7tO2uTSAO/YSOn1XyRbLrnxyTKUTKi/UfGhsQX0szWfeBKzEo6vxq4SQnByfxhWUVv0n0eAyx7xDQZHUQ4k+jazgrF4+Tltn2izKYCbXCr67H0JJnJCFXk5hZzTGfs8n2qvDt9FOM4Qsi0u4PIz76lVM3s595VJawNom50HAp+ZzCyMZUw4K756Zk/9li8TjvEqWyKTsqlcSPOXar4mFf52K7Hu2bnM+/R6oIlctF788lq8xiXE9PW48T9BfqqQWF1JRkpZuqA3OeowbOg== X-YMail-OSG: wFL2Z9UVM1l9EKW6t123dfV.a85cCPsGa_cf5LaYjzphQRYdEuQkwNrLkcbL0iJ x9r6rMqhIPyM045LFakK265GmCpawqzbXUZR35OElw0Q7CViWFwO61Tl204oFI6bNuzP4R_UjoCT FZdYDz2ook.0SzIZ6tvbMw0LxNdRX_nN_z1wbj8ZSN.UCcao2zUtVKk6Rpye53vWiwOEfVxDvaPd W_lJAydYS4pn2Hts4PTDCKbloag.oDka8_WjHXv6JRu2jMgwNLpFEzkUezfXFTdfrWWVfx5kKget UKr6lRcx7xbw5Bz2vBJ7L8Zpbh0ADs99C3SU.jrPOXBtkgMPPuOtRn7kQjQRN8kZgKzVFtUhnI8E 8HWqg7.dugYv2R7NnZzx61KMCAnCVWfzZITWdkS3KG5A1GC.XcJ7KSiY3iXo7Gay.tKui8DHEwJ1 wG00GasYe__WInSYVSOppr8abFHXZTuN8u7Ce_JeZnkjAeKyxr9AO9R8IKAErDxoSa04tZdxL1RV 5n63e3Bn_3JRgRYbMgAAxt0hAzssJjmZ000IINfEXeSqJPE6y6V2u8VmFFefcAtfarnTCZ.6zF.e UbXJdWDTtGdW4HvuoFJroyBvunLNPO.ELONVEH5lxBR2W1yZmT4ppxHV7hQ6MfToPlPO2dpKweVf MnvLs.me_OClDMvwxqMSy0jpR0ybuQ51D__fei3nU5Yr95zqS92leDCYk_Oye.ab4Oa4xLHiD1qs XvRlF8KDxgdSWrsZxa8smMvYmazTnKIKtIjnQMQmX.SIaLQRvr4pQmoxsXk0MI3eI67ckUI0wFnH NCQsRrEd9NR0tvdZgqpUM1TplimbY6gzspocJbwAtL4LPgNDNFWW3XFl1GPuEQtbLD5IWYMPF_E9 g8lbYtbGPC.6.y8XbU_x3i2y2fcHcCBnD4rQoK19jq4c48Ddt5JQAzahXcUBrSN1Gof8xglDWfEp .tnZWWHCHPhtx33tkZ6Ypl8UbW96n1cwqC2A.ggIvgWx0dCf9Y_O20EXFDtUnQd0HHxojhw5jZqP pld3EWCoFA7ptAoXoUQATJfdDnnopNBFoBEzDXm3K01T2dEaa7Qqp5qdMu_PD89jj7Ulf3U9UXCw khwTVwXvzLtrUF5H5nHm8ZCIUXpoczbe3tnXtmgzzzbZpG7GjLsF55uiiEuLJaBTGQTtFYNoEFUb Tx_sjvgEV49AP3qRSr9TRKTbo.3VLM5w7astxpn_RvstzcVwSarbXvejzk0DyLhlFChWYSMEFrBz bGH9hPD9e3XbNjl3jEm.TkmJJQCygrHkRHXeL6Bev3OK57SNF2URivvefHbe8ReAuRHIvn_TFDPO MsL6jx8NmzK.CDYb2rz7FhKD1Xf7I4kZPhchxVTGDvCdHe8f1SzuX41kH1kVdku3Jd.9FGbnMKCX t8wBczwRngeWBfJ2uwc9eHLcYIQKIAO3_DWMGTks5xRFSPqESPq9eTA1aMuOblG564xLy.NwSPa6 BSv65DIMC9jSZFR_t7QiwMNkouSy86c7W0QkXBuAzsOb.e9dtebnSOPuzJOSx0efjBtYefRSFR.L 5owzMMOT.rSLXMDIZ4uvFx8VPbZA0PtQJMVgO0bz2cM7D0ucJ26ZhspMsE8YjFIC6WOcq7MfU4G5 nqHGSWEqzI2PBTmCy.e.RFQBZRuhdPMvhMuFKV8CaopZd4_Z5.LUJzH7NzJvjhW6Zq9HsYdxqssn 3H4zJ9GKa26BRjtStJtIoVZwN_5sdYsILbW5UWDPwggrnY1SfhxUvgvnJCp2mLPXyIiY4EqJOnUH qGXTuThi567qNA2Cws.A1b2PLXv77ZbzF222i_OkH_y3PprZrxCRTcZUm0hsZHId760IwHAEwJFL wojEame1wgMa3F6gKhZcqm4Vv5mLkjT2nOr5GDuY93T3gGSRMIeOtDkxk3F7YTbUOyaAZl312bsD 6HxpodhXbPSK4s8bi5HJUJikUQ9QbAKwyrdlrc3_7Vi10Nbj55WS_4NRwAED0wrdQRMAi1F8uNeN SIOxUkpJw7.udzRCO_Dn7ze91zCaNsSXSB4KMiN9j9GFth.IkLAyyPO4vBkVldJGMsF0Ay46_BDI x0NJ5TOCzWGDvWHeacMwQQz4XF3n1a5lx68bfzza6wR8k9FY6YgFWgzNAXFwnOTNX6HBHcISVPfc FA8cvb2542UW19_uHAoqj5coBjOe_T7v0M5cAL0Cz7Bc3p91naF3oOsYhd4Yb6ji8twuUIjKTk0x iqOxHwa0TXsOgQO1AG2y4J0Xi5hWDF4lp9hF_HjWQWnhZ.QGVK_CA_PMxijAHcFc- X-Sonic-MF: Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic301.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sun, 1 May 2022 09:20:01 +0000 Received: by hermes--canary-production-sg3-795d7b4d54-zfnfv (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID e7fee5b3f782a19f3a54ace8fa5ba1b8; Sun, 01 May 2022 09:19:56 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <8735hu1u9o.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgk27fn6.fsf@gnu.org> <87r15ezim2.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1zm7e6q.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6c2zglu.fsf@gnus.org> <87ee1ertza.fsf@yahoo.com> <87k0b5tzqu.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 17:19:52 +0800 In-Reply-To: <87k0b5tzqu.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sun, 01 May 2022 10:37:29 +0200") Message-ID: <87o80hr4nb.fsf@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.20118 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 666 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: clement.pitclaudel@live.com, Eli Zaretskii , 23341@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > I did those already, I think? Yes, sorry, I missed that. > See the bug report for the discussion about this. I looked in the bug report thread, and ISTM that the consensus was to not add such a variable, instead fixing all the code that used `x-show-tip' directly to use `tooltip-show'. In general, using `x-show-tip' directly comes with many pitfalls, some of which are not easy to come by, so authors of third-party Lisp should not call that function directly without a detailed understanding of the different layers of tooltip machinery. That understanding includes providing an appropriate `timeout' parameter. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 01 05:54:10 2022 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2022 09:54:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59610 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nl6HK-0002HA-8u for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 05:54:10 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:57444) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nl6HI-0002Gx-Jw for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 05:54:09 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=7j1D89wir7oqifps2jUfSYzyzECwvXkzDtM016OLVG0=; b=lbCwVttSHYqzTjyLpYMVTOART6 I0LfM70Cilv8KTQtcdlui+m//a36+CjlKX0vHnvL44eifzfDkjvMWjuJglErdA6F/DNpU9Ww36LNT BJ5ga2CDMG4OIq4gx1r80UDUibeNiyfxeNEpkM+zppbiFVoqseEwHbEr3spJp3k7Ozo4=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nl6H9-0002hK-UJ; Sun, 01 May 2022 11:54:02 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Po Lu Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <8735hu1u9o.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgk27fn6.fsf@gnu.org> <87r15ezim2.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1zm7e6q.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6c2zglu.fsf@gnus.org> <87ee1ertza.fsf@yahoo.com> <87k0b5tzqu.fsf@gnus.org> <87o80hr4nb.fsf@yahoo.com> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAIVBMVEW5ASPCASWWBB1e IyYtFhgJBQpsRTl7T0GPWUmmgWn///9sBb+HAAAAAWJLR0QKaND0VgAAAAd0SU1FB+YFAQk1BaEf t5wAAAF2SURBVDjL1ZRLbsIwEIbH7gXinsDY9LEssZsLxLlBegKQwwFQSLcVEnSNlPN2xg8IhUrt sr8EzPjLZGYS/QAIUcBZ55gJIeCWImBcKUWfl1OJiMpAprwALkFJxTMgSQwBcjYBpNCjUFLGC0Ih MBbaEtAlHhit9V1ptGKnqe759G6yyKBggqdjSWOliqu9mfj+EPLKxdXRhdKmAq/DbjnDzefupmbw 8HZTi38Kmp+A+ztoXfNb0GZwQaYVF+D02C0CNxlhlm+1asP7waI2AzcFqLZJPWK6cXUmCcxNyHa1 Sef1q4tgWXljqmNVGZRFsKKaBei+O2z7bvSdCarrDY6H4OlAGka/9t4vCe2oTQD74TDs+8EnsqON FvDYb1EZEDnSZNjcVph322vQuNoQ+8xgdJaAxdfqnPH+PZ5bO8apdJxSm+dSxfiDvmbRBtFcBUse AHItV6VGx6IDSwpUiDX6nAM6Gz3JpZQ8egl/ZP6TIded7QRoqC8tHfgLaGkVBgAAACV0RVh0ZGF0 ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAyMi0wNS0wMVQwOTo1MzowNSswMDowMP3jgVcAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5 ADIwMjItMDUtMDFUMDk6NTM6MDUrMDA6MDCMvjnrAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: David Byrne's _The Catherine Wheel (expanded)_: "Big Blue Plymouth (Eyes Wide Open)" Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 11:53:57 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87o80hr4nb.fsf@yahoo.com> (Po Lu's message of "Sun, 01 May 2022 17:19:52 +0800") Message-ID: <87zgk1poi2.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Po Lu writes: > In general, using `x-show-tip' directly comes with many pitfalls, some > of which are not easy to come by, so authors of third-party Lisp should > not call that function directly without a detailed [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: clement.pitclaudel@live.com, Eli Zaretskii , 23341@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Po Lu writes: > In general, using `x-show-tip' directly comes with many pitfalls, some > of which are not easy to come by, so authors of third-party Lisp should > not call that function directly without a detailed understanding of the > different layers of tooltip machinery. That understanding includes > providing an appropriate `timeout' parameter. As I said in the bug thread, I agree with that, but nevertheless, x-show-tip is still used directly -- even in-tree -- so adding a (non-user option) variable to allow tweaking is appropriate. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 01 06:38:33 2022 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2022 10:38:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59678 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nl6yH-0005kS-Mo for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 06:38:33 -0400 Received: from sonic315-22.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.190.148]:34498) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nl6yF-0005kE-Q9 for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 06:38:32 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1651401505; bh=20uFLV4dAOeM36jUz5hktugaqdIndUnluX86dwCgkFU=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=e6IokgznceWAcSI34MEP98TqEX4OvsSCgPT0C4VBbkMQfdWILNhzM6pZFSj718F0Dktw4IQCSP/dDrm62vl744eYIaHzeMUY+UwbMwAEYCKVD9vJpRYd34vPb8D6+ywPJQsNgiySp031BmynOtCh9srqZ4euY2+S3bni3DSiq7Tj37exyTNWoVHyXyuH7EopJamzmI55fMCQD5TGGV0whBqXX2xrxs7BZI+m0QLHDB+2wYx1HmcFON5wPnxeOr4IUbi0DpA4Ru6LCvh6sxKcNQb7PzzoixhxzRsdVnFUkEaa4BnHJsPkx91bV4202AmuEI8Ni051cM1sU9m194UIZQ== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1651401505; bh=OJUHyc7ZPAdbz/HRV3h7A21tDhCzesySr51HviPMnAA=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=fMxGNbM3OSQ49C5TlDs7XHnfkn0HiI0Yh4ROXYo4mqKR9DZNohZMbXBIfGznNkng3/4+0C8Q8d6HKLDT3v3jvrGWQdYZZXTygzsWZR491vSprAFEObf/DR47YXdk7V6Iml/YJJdvgWCoEyVywlYxTAoCffCiqzM/NLsHevRPddg+SmExIn0IW5igUw/BxsuFO5buiQzyJTlD1JjRpM0W9l/p38YdG2l07jtAXCSKwIagEgdDiD+6yiIERbXsG45Q3XODiJV/fBi2CDIF+Z8UJyKBTFq1O3t8rkx8bqyDbnXGlKjV8SAAN/5P7dWUfoupVFdi2s/WR83OjunDWuzFhw== X-YMail-OSG: D8G6ppwVM1mEP7OBMgdmQLb5Iq_w47U19uCa4LwzxcFw3lz.qsChDTSMbqjTDML EicnaVauHXvfNmMTDxfejvaZ3Q4zwO7lsj_3KqKcZrHc2Icq6ncdFkoyKXniZPF4IBYJ0GKvd6.v tOiQtZEwpsUNA4BPfsQHdC_q_xioRi5f6jT1iiGg69G7VVkJQCkEGzRKUtTdtsBFfzO44CjUMott wP7nhbXWMx.Qn9et2fPT89Pkc9bBu0MMYhdml1kKC0Jcd678PtKtrb52V8CuvdPR29jqD0wRShVm G4fOAIakhM0Oecb19KHkrln7SoUfUqJqkqdZOYxkZaHYZ9EaaSJxY1cpJLaK0hOKNn5V_CHJeN2q HvezuUND8cATtRqzceU_3HFQUw5LkB0J0iREGiRkB8g.i7xqqfudPzglX6rz_Nbs6AqNI8RglV4I U_7SjPgAxmfA7srNu_g7OY3cyaITq5lNEiGKqPIeuV4n_RfDeTd_dkieRch3u2K0d0yNKc6PaX6_ KUecGRVYpY403o.7f7St3nnoaCEBRkC6GknOiRczV5rzX3Gnl5icMWBiH7YbehHvV3Js8S0qDvgx baWgJZtVdbE6HdGIyzIG1x2QdvgT4LhWqIzWLWrvV9bjglz68dQBZVvG0ZOQMMudyxf7.vpdKkJc TcJzBpmDjeULv_YlfPDSNg_YcdTim2W5zx9ygtjOkdV4PrGKOUyuHxy7V2ygs8nD_ysyhm6Z9zmG e9L0iRuG_Lzo.rC7svMms_WQ7uc_OhUtjCWhkHfJQnKzfz32RY9WPv8fwJ4b0EeJ_ineDX12lHF3 .PvqAHbLBAglnNfDRbILmKpkR758jei0skCOBbFcBu4U0BX3TozxolqBqkIw3tSfzQUYgpIarwo0 7rkFt9LsUZTGtJ.3Y8FvF.umYPsj5aClbjAupCmos_jQEBfIqg_Kmte1ql.hlmekpH_FaWhzTL9V zGHXhWwPS1grPHbNyO0786r3vZTRncPISilR0zcGQWzwE8cTWx7FMNj0VO4U0GfD28d4vwu2McIo OVPkDl9uFlDD286ReTvKbIGgEkr_5NSHKcSP_yWSq4U3l9AgrRgnsQCQgXCnimVuyzKPBz.IVuJL sMdA51KvCYOYYBsDgXiZzO2kHlgHLVtePxl6GUakaHD_WEa3RY3d8IbSB_toFsfipfs_hg0BYk4m yrkdcf7bnRXXLrLOD83.Hc6juin6n8MfOyhGoJ_Exc2t0bY1IHaQuqyPC2t3rCd_evmjo9AAWFS8 bzfzrlAgAwIOZd6eMRAlQSjSuQ1XuUMWRqa4O_G.qyVA7P1x1BskzkcPuGr6xykhRc50lZqNhoY7 Puh9pMsI.0EYuW_a2EMzWjFV.6tWLkr7nUMzfBlOyq.jEvJ77DQpxJ6Fn8qdxwX00l5qvC3UOYdY FFknH08iS3wDyAka8PZpKxVUdVscv322al3C7b4Mw5KO5o2xT6HRw2L3_mXrAO5svUPkhI7VI3qa dMmFHHFksdRrqgn7K6sxujfj2ntq76Lg031AhsGL6knZlitO3_jK1PRrFFDipj3rj5KYpD.4mEuu 2Imojl5wvYso7N6qBjyUEbyvrhs.Gz.vt5iT9fNK9WPQVEuEW3o2RAB6KdJszdh0vnAmLY._PjdB 1DPF.kceO49sI7tvaAuV_oxatzfWvbVJmTA1qkE2FwSrN3RO_gGtJKZGwKql_3IhdWk33v3fAxAq 8cHib.ancQl5gXKj_sf8CCzq2u5FdA_.5as.pAxwcyKcccaHWaMw8oLuI81afOak_YTGo0FIHhVg ff.bLtr2DXoP9KxDVlf82mtaHj.PdDIS.ZTKjy8dr5h8OektXdTVOvOXimHFqPgOuH250fewcy8S UYPhEJdLpI.QfMMF7sZI8K04_FvohF0XwoyJ244mKIayARR2mnP_Xn9MBom0len0lpTsi3pM60PX afnWVaLwY4nxgxBz4NVGeEmhxnmYaaMeKQN4WYaMVx31zNyLtJZjw.kwvsLcX4aYhlmtHmAHTiy9 _hOmgQgjhMHlk2gzjW6zb7HlyMUy2hkZzNGgsNlve7MmXtpBXmjlkSeP8dVTX0D1MO65G.DtIdBJ Fefk7COfkpQRlJI7MY96hD5mb3GZyXOJiOc.gku5gTHnUV1qEphCRJSkhCrGtdDbXl.azJm1IYTq g75hiHvN3F7V4MQbeS4rHQJ9a8M5HWBxsU57iHgMoNa_SJSKkrtYG3U.rX4ZiN17YUJeP0N4y8cY WtgSIU5NvLPc2BSZ9JPnxm8zZ7QuSSmiFyr0uBL9zSaEIADSccj1NGRzBSswHjzI1 X-Sonic-MF: Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic315.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sun, 1 May 2022 10:38:25 +0000 Received: by hermes--canary-production-sg3-795d7b4d54-xv6hw (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 28f1042a3eba8e1a34d09e385ea29182; Sun, 01 May 2022 10:38:22 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <8735hu1u9o.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgk27fn6.fsf@gnu.org> <87r15ezim2.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1zm7e6q.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6c2zglu.fsf@gnus.org> <87ee1ertza.fsf@yahoo.com> <87k0b5tzqu.fsf@gnus.org> <87o80hr4nb.fsf@yahoo.com> <87zgk1poi2.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 18:38:18 +0800 In-Reply-To: <87zgk1poi2.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sun, 01 May 2022 11:53:57 +0200") Message-ID: <87h769r10l.fsf@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.20118 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 473 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: clement.pitclaudel@live.com, Eli Zaretskii , 23341@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > As I said in the bug thread, I agree with that, but nevertheless, > x-show-tip is still used directly -- even in-tree -- so adding a > (non-user option) variable to allow tweaking is appropriate. If code calls `x-show-tip' directly, then that means it explictly wants a 5 second delay: no more, no less. If that is not actually what it wants, it should be fixed, instead of hacking around the problem with a global variable. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 01 06:39:42 2022 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2022 10:39:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59686 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nl6zO-0005mR-7v for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 06:39:42 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:57880) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nl6zL-0005mD-U4 for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 06:39:40 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=S1b8bUWRDikAmRV+AbThFFluTZ/pt7zet5WjNdh/8ak=; b=Bu4lVyod6m3BLXmUQnPpgjTKkF ANUkcDNTblZceWiwgpMy0ynp6ktOdu3hEpI5exkyX2sa5jY+cnfYdHQzs24GR5wavQRi1wJpwmWkv w7Xa+694Dz4QB5y/o7s+UUakNFmyCwaBTxLtrf4kWMrH63AgAB8a7zTRfOnqWXlekXXw=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nl6zC-000368-JU; Sun, 01 May 2022 12:39:32 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Po Lu Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <8735hu1u9o.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgk27fn6.fsf@gnu.org> <87r15ezim2.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1zm7e6q.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6c2zglu.fsf@gnus.org> <87ee1ertza.fsf@yahoo.com> <87k0b5tzqu.fsf@gnus.org> <87o80hr4nb.fsf@yahoo.com> <87zgk1poi2.fsf@gnus.org> <87h769r10l.fsf@yahoo.com> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAElBMVEXw6dX7+Omqp52D gntFR0T///9bmYzmAAAAAWJLR0QF+G/pxwAAAAd0SU1FB+YFAQonCdIbNT0AAAGgSURBVDjLjZSB ccMgDEUF7gCQLkAFA7igCYz2n6lfgJO0ie+qy3GxniV9JCVE1+bitPkUYgzx2Q0LcJOd5H6DYW6A 8ArgThxfImYdju4FeAPJxTcRjubxt8bUFy9APEEgnzxXzsw5t1YnuHFrTZf1xvg+7xEA9I7GS3GC RMwpa+utIlXyolYdAKodnhrXzChGeUVEitHLoQflVmtj3vpDFfuu+k25tkpc9A5cqKLSkadoohOg BtMQ9eUCNHDW2atgvbMr6B4o9wewGtJFVSq5LBXp8PYC8OKTaNOe/ASz1+bWTq6oVv4YqdbYivay mzbUKiew8XPpOdHZyngCdKtte7qZ6CYGVg1PHjemDT6Tt0Bw50rKI5XJRQkewK9ZPQCn4S/mPpjl rOHHqGs2v3Rv3XUjQoZ8tVPkSOjV3MSb3HMfH6Wmra0L3u7+vH/K7n1b81gAQ08QULFYSs8RVsVj JzqANQnKij4brt5nr7CJtWE5MrYK68bYldXd91t94Q9X4E+qsPr8AmIIAX8Bb8BTqPtXjV8hV/4l Y/643bnLRD/tfnRPPiimNAAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAyMi0wNS0wMVQxMDozOTowOCsw MDowMHk5UYMAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjItMDUtMDFUMTA6Mzk6MDgrMDA6MDAIZOk/ AAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: David Byrne's _Music for The Knee Plays_: "Winter" Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 12:39:29 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87h769r10l.fsf@yahoo.com> (Po Lu's message of "Sun, 01 May 2022 18:38:18 +0800") Message-ID: <874k29pme6.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Po Lu writes: > If code calls `x-show-tip' directly, then that means it explictly wants > a 5 second delay: no more, no less. The user should be able to override what they want. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: clement.pitclaudel@live.com, Eli Zaretskii , 23341@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Po Lu writes: > If code calls `x-show-tip' directly, then that means it explictly wants > a 5 second delay: no more, no less. The user should be able to override what they want. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 01 07:00:48 2022 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2022 11:00:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59719 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nl7Jo-000787-6e for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 07:00:48 -0400 Received: from sonic303-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.188.147]:45831) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nl7Jm-0006zQ-7E for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 07:00:46 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1651402840; bh=ZzNCyePCHpHeS0E3O7e+QGyi/cWLHQWtnzypTnUenv4=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=nS9Scc3CVZLItfD6zn9WimLtwxDjU/Vmpixm5yVjqCVMNj2DA4deyaorR813qrDSbzwgP39fKCyQvMEtWw6/4s6rYByIOfLAtFlJwIx0/RVNzghKc3L36rLgy3f6Z5PqaF1V6zEpEKHeLxSVP8ADqTAEB9YjOS5UQDV7X8dqhUILEod0xUkcME1pDyzoErxNYSEGQkHMcrbLBMbjZj0s9gzqVvnkr7AxqOZBWnH39nhQ4BL0MJN0Ig0Qo+CxcU3vifjIvedCg0bLHiM/4IO5g2BV1tkCpSgVKupHHbJdllb4xxFlyvKiPWaLCrPF62D6gavyyzqYltSYbHfSVOvi3A== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1651402840; bh=gnKihoXlKADLbPOWU5S1rkgTWibYI+7xT0mBX4ttVZT=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=YqQrOq/JE3lvAi1WJUHOUVUZ/sMTRFPe03YcXJt9jGQWGkU0K8pgZh7XpfDN8ro8G9kVmLMzicHPUMJca5+OXQWWt9fqDxkIxOXakaxM2fdrymjosvegP/b8gh8jfnGy+HtFBz5hpTbJXzxZT+1vd+trwTC2EhwnxMouqyWdUTvDB7tQQVSY7htHxEJR3pWqVy/jSK8r7WDQGsvFSgzGanZJZJC7xT7X+B/fgFC3TCgtlosWGQDr7PyMgbTNRDrddKFjDbzG0uNsvLzwDcwHJ6ra1hknsehQ9h0zHS4PKyVKpbpHSbdY4OfMAV5skSiRFDJehaGADDKDgjU4ZO4TUw== X-YMail-OSG: L81W3H0VM1lwkVAon8rhGUnLaDzaeLIPxj1yjadbqMaaL9AbfkgbBsSUMll_wFf ydH7EzNw0B7zc5cECH3k4nT5JHhg9ORcPkWGynJrTS1hpHIJkAgrj2pSCU0FuXNlednI2NmdPKNk G16FPFVKOGd6nOyDKQKHgibrOIMIAxZMc.MBhB.5byJ139Pnm6LdMgJSkGed.a0gFvrO1DmMwMBP xVA_IBW92mG9wv_oSjPe32zTHJkS3cqPIVB9Ydg1ZYPzsr1Qn7SSYL.EZZlp2WUmKo2k1Lh63QH4 cvPU3Z_A72Vixcv4aB3I2NCEGMJiUxrN8b5fDmvphX0R7vG4c3PBHj4j9vCr9RKw9AWsnCcF1YXj 99ha7Ct8S_C2hwIR1nFDS4lIz2Sq0WO.E2gOSh271hg7y_8rP.S.urpwNULshiVvcldJDjqnHxQ7 jU.umT5u0hjvVG_uToIR8zkmPR2iS0pfpRS9eV3Ixt3LeL7meFgUoC2IOPjXMiUOjBq9zt7F1pUE xsm9BfqXGDefUjwKbRcVJHw9D2kJg1yBfTmNOduQKKXk6P8LYdnnT.bH7uQ6yEaeud79IM3bGzR6 mK8NsguFadfXnNWvfIOiHbrYbYfrfrq7KONJcswlbPulea5YBd7JiGnMewAKEtDOi9cvioYG1No4 perGQbdu_lbup5UbAJWXqsvQpy7I1PAUf5vC0biAxS9yfPTAbJrqtKjK48fTx2Zj23SY4ggX7lvQ PtSFrrwAf68cTj19I_DLdqaCZRTPeFMiSoUsBaVNie_6AGjrnNM0PTRv3ZHqTKTrZf5vUdLah43y DbYe4VUzSDcX61rdUr4cX7JZvL_Y5hDSk1qPFM1leppfOIBti5tTOx0E2iXMC0xr0zn6nKdAU80b 2VZeNNLRJpOKi.x8heC2FGr10BS0S8shoHSSxzVBX2QTK0nY_RYS1yYOdMx_SXCFVC_bf.DlC8Xs cIp8MdWoomo2NX1.hq0xNwuSDci0eiuIFy6En9JR0B_Is9X3P_EmoPUl3U0tkEaeskqZX7f8XgnH cRG7Qajx544eJCZ7csrWWXi1y3YjmeDLzrabQAN8Ch2VPOTdLyf50zuIb6WlO6P3.YfpFXLmlLA9 jCGAqrKLaTHDCM_BPofQZkH6IMOxSFPtUvWfAtTmH7EzWxE6UNTmln1kgNqH0jeZgfVMnkGXwV.d Lr_AugPLf0t1vjevmEpKSQvojwm8leNj3UWBpp1xsf0O2yyFyV0roaImLyDEsdG9MxL7VEzFpNYN D00eY2JUL2t737K40chpd8f3TP2wSV2a1M5XldZRI7QIEw4KIwYjWH5iGZfTS0pGeolmVfKqd_8_ bPIVH0LF44nl8ovN42GjX4C7MVPppzBrGI8DLmec0ksMKu_BTH2QoMzEnnjfG_MoR2j16FViUfVN hxF2y8N05x6faMyePP9cZisTaw.qnnNv0PgDFm6XJEqUWAxTQXc9d.O444fcjbTwoeQOT8FrJ5DU de2SDu8UbafV723oxumRnLowkYNqhM3KvXu7agLjDEz09iy0d7JA7gEZo_3nNVb6UN8hsfMgG6Qo F04Mhxx8AkMpJJ8ARK.bvO5iDK0vzkPeps3xfu4W9d08bY6rH2jyKqhgW9fY7.E16OYusAdphsuB CILAF5QFco9x21NPw3FIYrBPYVUOr2ffBOWnjsANneg9NQduOx5Gkfp5jU3HqbQSBst2iYAixvT7 Bn_IGqvqAwueFY4Vv8MITnvjBPWKXsKsRQxPG_qrNLj98XzZCF_uR38EyNAdhpoPRS2cJ7YZ30Vh 5MKk4IgVAoHr4Yn6tOXGge5jkxKHnRGhgIqR7orC4vACo8h2NQp4Ki1ie3BhN8yEOkdwQJXwFoOr 8gbYu3k1PBdyL4biE1zMFapA_SulC7g5z3iPATjgqeU2yc_bVFxgTh8.CsOvwSRJ_jpw7.5RcI79 Qi7DoViLJKGZtZp_1Ckc5bWIRk5TdUeAGCQQAGFXd2ak.uAt15oW4zYUZOv4HAfeX3tJ1sriXIiD NYzl5iQqYQfk4lxMHntfnWA0NgF90THPiRH4SB0sgM1xBHYKle_UYddzfDba0o9pIcAtB_QFu.VJ 6oJU8_rfzG6SIIOaINJBPyaSRFZZcH4TFccBflnQi0XD7cbdrTBoQ_J9xeV2L3tyZterQ5gucv01 zOahDCfgMCZWFuFtHSKk0uX64P4b8v_jGYcKF2ScDhe5SWiV3K4w5rwietR6h4HMkTK5ffVS0NMU 63OIrdsO51PrhkP2yrTzNEF6L3cNnLNgKBtPAkHXLQU__FUwaUHVe0HjMDnd1rK4- X-Sonic-MF: Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic303.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sun, 1 May 2022 11:00:40 +0000 Received: by hermes--canary-production-sg3-795d7b4d54-xv6hw (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID e4f19d261faacb5c5866923e0770034b; Sun, 01 May 2022 11:00:36 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <8735hu1u9o.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgk27fn6.fsf@gnu.org> <87r15ezim2.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1zm7e6q.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6c2zglu.fsf@gnus.org> <87ee1ertza.fsf@yahoo.com> <87k0b5tzqu.fsf@gnus.org> <87o80hr4nb.fsf@yahoo.com> <87zgk1poi2.fsf@gnus.org> <87h769r10l.fsf@yahoo.com> <874k29pme6.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 19:00:31 +0800 In-Reply-To: <874k29pme6.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sun, 01 May 2022 12:39:29 +0200") Message-ID: <87a6c1qzzk.fsf@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.20118 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 662 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: clement.pitclaudel@live.com, Eli Zaretskii , 23341@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: >> If code calls `x-show-tip' directly, then that means it explictly >> wants a 5 second delay: no more, no less. > The user should be able to override what they want. So why don't we have variables enabling the user to customize the "default" value of each optional parameter to every internal function, such as the default values of `default-filename', `mustmatch' and `only-dir-p' in Fx_file_dialog? Or the default `action' in `x-begin-drag'? This specific case is even worse, since we now have two different variables for customizing two subtly different kinds of "tooltip hide delay". That way lies madness. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 01 07:43:13 2022 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2022 11:43:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59776 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nl7yr-0003LT-55 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 07:43:13 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:58380) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nl7yk-0003KP-LP for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 07:43:11 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=5KAjVJPNFpDkmQyvlTYc9tNSuucGzSaSELHX1Fzxvf8=; b=JF7nRQH2OLvQuAp5UC119LuCpD KJPwMBynjDpT9UuwgiOeGGOkRQfUWC2gSMnbrhvkhIl9UF1Wk1mxvPNdFyk6n11ozcfzRf4mqQ1QV UsDbKGzUFddqSRixsTlIw0LwvwnwwNrFhjLo+WoDzIL+51f+sGSHAnH6gUEAt9HoBGT8=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nl7yc-0003q9-36; Sun, 01 May 2022 13:43:00 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Po Lu Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <8735hu1u9o.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgk27fn6.fsf@gnu.org> <87r15ezim2.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1zm7e6q.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6c2zglu.fsf@gnus.org> <87ee1ertza.fsf@yahoo.com> <87k0b5tzqu.fsf@gnus.org> <87o80hr4nb.fsf@yahoo.com> <87zgk1poi2.fsf@gnus.org> <87h769r10l.fsf@yahoo.com> <874k29pme6.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6c1qzzk.fsf@yahoo.com> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAJ1BMVEUnKjFIWW55hYZX Ym+RmZyMd4beO1DQtL/MydHqHjSzucl8quv////g3T9KAAAAAWJLR0QMgbNRYwAAAAd0SU1FB+YF AQsqJs2mHB4AAAGjSURBVDjLbdFLbsIwEAZgrmDcCxBygcSpVHVpoqrqtmXBvg2EA5DQAxCLAwR5 XzXWdN37dfyIY1MGCYb5/DtOMpvN5nmSJEv9tSCJrxmC/5OR+U1YEkJuQoaQ3wAdIBSblPMyBB3Q kbTUZUA3nJs5obwc4c4uWVgg6QSm4ZmD+RWsCIkiHjIPRQRTgNAIpoDbywEP5vbyDhYZu4pY4Czc ihYeVixMUOaBZZSxac4KBytmyozZfVW95g7sPNMPPW27ppYfqQFul+MUoGla0aEYWOBilrzAGWBo jMj+Tb8PyvJSCSFAB7CEONbvCJRmz8LOh62R5tRXCAUr9Bw3+tlIU31V9QgPehsT+JVj1VsNnQvA xoNsDeyVHsPTNL8IDeKwv5rL1kInq/W6kmFA2IsfZVy7EU7xvBcW8Ke+DrhEHNGBEaLIdgIQhyDQ ejiD6qKzjoB3p6YTtxFAFwcMAOCzVZsoYEGps1LuxD1eUAilEB71Tkq5E++ww1OKEbC+bUAoUBEM Q20C5tVAmAC8yf4TZ/gBFQKeeDv2EAIcbeA/fF18C38TwJZnmmD7qQAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVh dGUAMjAyMi0wNS0wMVQxMTo0MjozOCswMDowMPv7YZEAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjIt MDUtMDFUMTE6NDI6MzgrMDA6MDCKptktAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Colleen's _A Flame My Love, A Frequency_: "Another World" Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 13:42:57 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87a6c1qzzk.fsf@yahoo.com> (Po Lu's message of "Sun, 01 May 2022 19:00:31 +0800") Message-ID: <875ympo4vy.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Po Lu writes: > So why don't we have variables enabling the user to customize the > "default" value of each optional parameter to every internal function, > such as the default values of `default-filename', `mustma [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: clement.pitclaudel@live.com, Eli Zaretskii , 23341@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Po Lu writes: > So why don't we have variables enabling the user to customize the > "default" value of each optional parameter to every internal function, > such as the default values of `default-filename', `mustmatch' and > `only-dir-p' in Fx_file_dialog? Or the default `action' in > `x-begin-drag'? Allowing the user to alter those doesn't seem useful. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 01 08:56:51 2022 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2022 12:56:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59855 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nl987-0007Oe-8p for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 08:56:51 -0400 Received: from sonic303-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.188.147]:35215) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nl985-0007ON-H6 for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 08:56:49 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1651409804; bh=ylGvtd9hAEGal4q1HOCz5ByUc259/CFCrVtrj+m23UA=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=NCgSKplUkabrFkfc7mjULRlJW83wbu/NXJmFSs/qzeHy9InBmagIMHUxQnN1n/f9GPcEt7dBKW4EtTp5Os6HRR1eDdiRKPuFZgBWj0LhlGBy7P94dlGY9y0uW/i83ckC/o0zo62TVXUJD+yHJj+OfkIfyIMS1lka+tKkVcCltuvqWK4RCl7DcpY0qkTxHcbDoVM6kcocAvswMMVApzoqL2EOy8xxNGm92Md8lKZUyxLG1Vt6TjRDem6BuNDsmaG4KiY7H/ExXaKCQ/V0PSgu1bTKio07XlFgqiMthlMY8kYciCAMUOAXjWh3Ol6tJWgky0iggvL19nEbv6IMEb+4Sg== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1651409804; bh=y5lWCEMym9hFrZcRqlxVkOuU6u46E0lGQ85tpZkCS8p=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=k5oMNcCKrcGPgVd9GdoS2miG41epTmPq76DmZ7197J3bZimQe+zFmXID4ksJKKwtHfuMWVvrWkSheeTCQ9U82uDI1fjr/Og4XyLhkMUGQfXj76EL9q3X1ka2sbNkkW5LKqU9r/cYeabGlgjN+24f4y4dGVexNK1vSrbcanuM+PsPrObKASZTZ5UlcfWuPDjZSqvsiDG/vUlYhOMvULpZr9y0zVQ4KdY/4v2aG6T3oeuQIHIx24tkyrM1WadXr+lTFQgJ+gi5PexwvAYhfKG/noWqL1Ac8GN6rinS/mfHh/I3kgCag7C5+S1mHsMNnIZAxZI3nhHrdxxlkvfTG7PG/Q== X-YMail-OSG: UuDtcOEVM1k6IkEG5.Z_ypHpKdwdygbjeRym8b3Tz5J2rWs4WSmW2DkNq.5hA7I jgffn84CHQsLLcfixsFDiyqgTVcoxvFMt2wZc3yHbSAuAMP.n6Ew9Tz6P_5YAuAI3LvMseVHNilb ltXMNvCd7FE54PkJZxkepdYTIxkT0dzYSGGmI4gjEzzDLBC0WPFQVhDDXTPChE0fz4Aun4m39WOC aHrmAjaSqwIRcfH5SAOl586_wj4N3D3pvEraZJFk8Q0QYhte4yaFfUbEUn7DS8FHdywaztNIEuOP sUUa7unsouZKBN693eN7mJ5ifomA_nonSQoQUZDbfuV6rlyc_rGPz4cN2awAJg9xFR9Od3zjEUaL KIy8HGxULXLNmsI3PQmGTTr3UOrtQDKTZinceDKTt1o9h01_Gtw19YbAG1UiQKNxZzDiePYnhwDY 35k4A5BD_hiWm9yUfjRV20cWHmd1Mz60LmqLoeAEhqGVP9nZcWs190wtRIGtys1zT4kXgTmv1VnI X2VJXqvGFLOL4jroJGh.TtCVFIv6JVVh.MK7rEu553nmchA0M3_716Q80s_LhlT1jd7vMTTsOVvD UxSpA_Pxx.aRkBQ3wCBP8ziPZlqh7xF0wIQdZajQlvlSoFNFbFE0eh_Sc5Y.M_Gb15uQyShYSGI8 Nkf34zci9IeAlTDo3gxO7E0awMmr_n0yWl6VBTs0MlUlp1w_klzNZ1F1Er4.3k_JLxCH2eLcXQl6 FLCKFNLtEKXFoM6IpyD75viumPM4iSVnGcjfoDu8GjfecMMSlg_uQUpVI7akHUCCJNg950HGBtKv 44Q3DUaY5S0elM.h0hHRT.k83kGeqJrQ2dlZhCOqUSnYg8ADZ6vb67jbHAcfJIE8t_nCbqZFImUP 6j2yOG0nU_3Ur1kbZ.sqYeOXVjaw2brFrXqgq9GPPwpR0HyanhQhMBKgryo6.EsNYdp1yI5E7Ij_ g7ep3je.J.cYRXQLDr3ssFsD8hpJQmEbAwWQeQLEGRQ2Ll_X_MVbW.LbjaRFNgdrVBRZhjSIycpR KSlfjkJ9al3piJS.KBJJeMwWHSXxAHajPIg.c29TpYW7CSDEf4AIfItDXGbxz2mbXYCS03AijVCC cGXitulirMjDsBPeT_.m31CBzWc6p4Ye0xoV.2pLgdcpk26Spa1tngsQTjoeb5k1NcAmZ1TdOTol vrfhgW1jijBAITDc8YjLuQqO56MOG0vNkf1P5X2jclFJP_M8CpiXs9v1Y30NmCf1YsFj6un4u1er dkFvQHraKez8ZEW9e9afcc_bNSvZ_o3vTMaHqTneE.ZtyoGFGHxArQCOk8nx._ur53PpDZKA1NfD Fnv5jf7SnPcAsZ9cIeWntvU5Mr8jClnm_qCQLWDQvVyYjOtKm6u6yCgYvMly2lVm2K1eiWezzEPH lSidisWl8Yajlr8lVLV6aMFonFB.ZBEdeTzgQmy4O5ZvyjDXUPcUK_a8VMjJ_YYeS9z4VIFiSSky GSbG52X0SnfLLsNrAMNZEjKP8Cud104FPAIL2ebbovHRO1_Jqmd_GFG7JHzK353F98Vpqer_RLN5 NFBi7m_p8kosdphCf0Z8PmpD5WG1_Cc4YDwC6EbIJzmqxDaZeycHr.zQnpVEwIG3Tu9M2ILfH5XE H1ki1smnRlWaFjNURgoHj8w6NhnjfaFGxP8TDJ6Bl3FCgUAaRJ23ucfbzksOKQCB050KIc.slWVt lX8gxlGoSZwumx3b1hZOLW1TFlTmVy.WBVprm8Mrtru96vPD4SGL7FBcJ7O.7TpySQo_3HVbFfKC oMfKyoJX_PPfL2hqrsYsnobU2XPdR_akFUr1K3PM7sXIIf76yaRbbKzNQhRYljDmxiuKMPwzy6OP JG16QXffhI2M6OzS6jCfHbrZqRuvXnTAJI7hFAfKVHQEpzew4cYvV6kAKFrR1K42CTCWGoVNo8MD gzhPYBQKO4XGaKF4HqvWrE0TsUNC3xaee6qtK9UlhXZWHJ4r78Uck0pnXWHHH8gRFlAutDlUC6mB g.YkpRzrkypelLI9Q1SDIXTq2V7CLlX.8FPXFBzS1LTVLIk_X2irlJD3Qswg_ImTVQGmIyCkA0Dt T1kFtyKpdNHvoBB8ztqsyHr5Ih4f0SswdTQMlY.H3WmJkq_Wh_3lMo9iz92yHb5f8yTcRNMw7oew 5q6oUU67Gzas2Rc40ssgqBulIZ0N0tsJwhFUFkmf5sAJZ5NMPkS4FWYmKBgFHi6lDyaiTUNfr9.N dxqBP42y.gqlLnXmAXc7TWn6hAn0ZXfzUBb1RFOPfIsKrXAgT9dSt3Ytoylw9Ow-- X-Sonic-MF: Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic303.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sun, 1 May 2022 12:56:44 +0000 Received: by hermes--canary-production-sg3-795d7b4d54-mkmbd (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 0cc1d682b0863a3824265ee410a3ff1f; Sun, 01 May 2022 12:56:40 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <8735hu1u9o.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgk27fn6.fsf@gnu.org> <87r15ezim2.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1zm7e6q.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6c2zglu.fsf@gnus.org> <87ee1ertza.fsf@yahoo.com> <87k0b5tzqu.fsf@gnus.org> <87o80hr4nb.fsf@yahoo.com> <87zgk1poi2.fsf@gnus.org> <87h769r10l.fsf@yahoo.com> <874k29pme6.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6c1qzzk.fsf@yahoo.com> <875ympo4vy.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 20:56:35 +0800 In-Reply-To: <875ympo4vy.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sun, 01 May 2022 13:42:57 +0200") Message-ID: <8735htqum4.fsf@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.20118 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 314 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: clement.pitclaudel@live.com, Eli Zaretskii , 23341@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Allowing the user to alter those doesn't seem useful. But there are external packages calling that function utilizing the default meanings of its parameters, and it's also an internal function used by `read-file-dialog', so the analogy with `x-show-tip' is complete. 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bh=/LSDkdeb5l+/XTc/T+nu+R++QFas1pyYu1fGbM0VHiE=; b=rDk6qRLMxY1mLhmrM52JwcAFqChNlRuQS2KV7K4LlVvknwtoiwkP7Ls95lh/N2YRzYrw+eqivl1MHPrnE8eebj03bHXjIhutEztpQaenrMW+KXk7pX/PyWyU8s4t6EHgLmwLTjPNIVVm8x9fOZg0aVEPOk5sTy7ja6muB35CHMY= Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by BYAPR10MB2472.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a02:aa::18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.5206.13; Sun, 1 May 2022 16:19:28 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a0e7:5f38:ab50:5123]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a0e7:5f38:ab50:5123%9]) with mapi id 15.20.5206.013; Sun, 1 May 2022 16:19:28 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Po Lu , Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: RE: [External] : bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable Thread-Index: AQHYXVr4ToTaVEEXOEO5JBE5HiiRQ60KILYQ Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 16:19:28 +0000 Message-ID: References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <8735hu1u9o.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgk27fn6.fsf@gnu.org> <87r15ezim2.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1zm7e6q.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6c2zglu.fsf@gnus.org> <87ee1ertza.fsf@yahoo.com> <87k0b5tzqu.fsf@gnus.org> <87o80hr4nb.fsf@yahoo.com> <87zgk1poi2.fsf@gnus.org> <87h769r10l.fsf@yahoo.com> <874k29pme6.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6c1qzzk.fsf@yahoo.com> <875ympo4vy.fsf@gnus.org> <8735htqum4.fsf@yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <8735htqum4.fsf@yahoo.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 21de5dbf-274d-4126-8be4-08da2b8e5dbc x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR10MB2472:EE_ x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 21de5dbf-274d-4126-8be4-08da2b8e5dbc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 01 May 2022 16:19:28.3865 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: kjws4t5ebCCMEjMbEj558q4fAidOTOmX0g1yowNlTs4gfmcU/x/g928eA+DX5h27Pg4M0w20DKIiITX11wXQhw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR10MB2472 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.486, 18.0.858 definitions=2022-05-01_06:2022-04-28, 2022-05-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2202240000 definitions=main-2205010131 X-Proofpoint-GUID: 60Y4DPrNAPVrjNyPiRWlBtL8l13vgthA X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 60Y4DPrNAPVrjNyPiRWlBtL8l13vgthA X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: "clement.pitclaudel@live.com" , Eli Zaretskii , "23341@debbugs.gnu.org" <23341@debbugs.gnu.org>, martin rudalics X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > But there are external packages calling that function utilizing the > default meanings of its parameters, and it's also an internal function > used by `read-file-dialog', so the analogy with `x-show-tip' is > complete. FWIW, I don't see why `x-show-tip' is being considered "internal". And I'm one who uses it in external libraries. If `tooltip-show' can use `x-show-tip' then so can "external" code that does something similar. The only even partially good excuse for branding something "internal" is to let users know not to depend too heavily on its behavior, as it might change sometime. (And that's anyway true of everything in Emacs.) `tooltip-show' is not sufficiently general to serve as a replacement for the use cases of `x-show-tip'. Branding the latter "off limits" is misguided, IMO. This, in the `x-show-tip' doc string, is misguided: This is an internal function; Lisp code should call `tooltip-show'. (No reason given, BTW. Nothing that helps users understand. Just a big "VERBOTEN !" sign.) ___ On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with _documenting_, clearly, any caveats that you think users of `x-show-tip' should be aware of. And by "documenting" I don't mean hand-waving about unspoken, unclear "complications". ___ Even the title of this bug should be a clue that something is wrong about it: the tail is wagging the dog. Why should `x-show-tip' respect the value of `tooltip-hide-delay'? It's the other way around: `x-show-tip' does not, and should not, depend on any `tooltip-*'. It's `tooltip-*' that depends on its use of `x-show-tip'. ___ What Martin said in this bug thread is sound: A function that calls 'x-show-tip' directly should generally use 'tooltip-hide-delay' as ^^^^^^^^^ TIMEOUT argument. If it doesn't, it should provide a customizable variable to use as ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ TIMEOUT argument instead. That's reasonable. If you can reasonably use `tooltip-show' then do so. If you can't, use `x-show-tip'. And in the latter case, if it makes sense to use `tooltip-hide-delay' as the TIMEOUT arg, then do so. If not, then if you can reasonably provide a user option, to let users specify the TIMEOUT to use, then do so. Different uses of showing a tooltip can call for different behaviors, including different TIMEOUT values. For some uses the general option `tooltip-hide-delay' is appropriate. For others it's not - instead, you want to let users specify another timeout value. Martin also suggested: Any package that optionally provides its own delay for hiding tips should, by default, use the value of 'tooltip-hide-delay' for that option. That too makes sense, _in general_. But "should" should be avoided in such guidance, unless "in general" follows. The devil is in the details, i.e., in what the use case is. None of this is complicated. None of it is a reason to call `x-show-tip' off limits. ___ And what Martin said about `x-show-tip' arg TIMEOUT is also sound for args DX and DY: use options `tooltip-[xy]-offset', or provide library-specific options. ___ The bug filer even admitted the following, in response to Martin's clear advice: this isn't a documented convention AFAICS, That calls out for the _proper_ "fix": Just add what Martin suggested to the doc. Don't make a mountain out of this mole hill. ___ This, I think, is the bottom-line expression of the bug OP's problem: I opened this issue based on the experience that it took me some non-trivial amount of time to figure out that I had to configure flycheck-pos-tip-delay, and not tooltip-delay. flycheck-pos-tip follows the convention that you outlined above, but that convention wasn't obvious to me, and doesn't yield a consistent or very nice experience (any time I install a package that uses tooltips, I need to wonder configure its timeout, unless it uses tooltip - which I can't easily guess). IMO, this just points to a case of either or both (1) something (`flycheck-pos-tip') not being well-enough documented or (2) a user not using `C-m' or otherwise checking what a library provides before using it. If Flycheck provides an option for the hide delay it uses, and if it makes that provision obvious, then I don't see a Flycheck bug (or any other bug). Eli said something similar, I think: Bottom line, I think the bug is in the packages that don't provide customizations for this, and you should take this up with the respective maintainers. (I say "I think", because maybe he meant more than that, about an option. Maybe he too meant to suggest that no library should use `x-show-tip'.) If in fact it makes better sense for Flycheck to _not_ provide its own delay option, and instead to just use `tooltip-hide-delay', then change it to do that. (I have no opinion here.) But there's no requirement that code that uses `x-show-tip' use anything `tooltip-*'. That would be backward: the tail wagging the dog. 3rd-party code, just as much as `tooltip.el', can reasonably make use of `x-show-tip'. The OP's complaint is essentially this: I don't want to have to configure every package that I use independently. It's good to be able to fine-tune independent packages, but consistent defaults are nice in any case, aren't they? And this: As a user, I would like to have a way to globally configure how long tooltips produced by Emacs are displayed. At the moment, Emacs does not provide such a default. tooltip-hide-delay is close, but it does not cover all tooltips. It can't - and it shouldn't necessarily - cover all tooltips, because Emacs cannot know how some particular library (use case) might make use of tooltips. OP's inconvenience is the cost of not being able to predict and reasonably cover every use case. So the answer is yes, consistency is nice when it makes sense. But yes, if it makes sense for a library to provide its own settings, such a options, as opposed to just using a generally/globally "consistent" setting, then it's up to you as a user to recognize that fact and act accordingly. If a library gives you an option to get the behavior you like as a user, then don't complain that it's a bother to specify that. If _you_ think that option should default to the value of a more general option, then tell it to the library maintainer. It's possible that the maintainer has a good reason to have provided you with a separate option. Or not. IOW, it's either a problem with that library or a user problem. It's not a problem with `x-show-tip'. One person's inconvenience for having to customize more than just one option is another person's relief in being able to get behavior, in a particular context, that differs from what that general option provides. As Eli put it: to me, such a global value makes very little sense, because tooltips can be used for many different features that don't necessary display short helpful text. Having a single value for all the possible use cases is IMO not a good customization design, as it can never be a "one fits all" value anyway. And he says this, with which I also agree: tooltip-hide-delay has no relation whatsoever to x-show-tip. It is a user option supported by functions in tooltip.el, as its name says. No relation, although I also agree with Martin's suggestion that it can make sense to use that option in a call to `x-show-tip' when other things are equal (i.e., when there's no good reason not to). ___ There were good things said in this thread. This is not one of them, IMO: Reading this thread, there were some good arguments for why we shouldn't add such a variable -- x-show-tip isn't supposed to be called directly, and tooltip.el already has a way to tweak this. Drop the "x-show-tip isn't supposed to be called directly". That's misguided. The rest is fine. ___ Just one opinion, from one 3rd-party provider, who sometimes uses `x-show-tip' with `tooltip-hide-delay' and sometimes uses it with a delay option designed for use with a specific library that calls `x-show-tip'.=20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 01 20:35:22 2022 Received: (at 23341) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 May 2022 00:35:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34523 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nlK26-0002vi-Jn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 20:35:22 -0400 Received: from sonic305-22.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.185.148]:38317) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nlK25-0002vS-61 for 23341@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 20:35:21 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1651451714; bh=cPcAYTyKMRKmmp89jERT8Db6tPqxGuKTPxipLAfmXjU=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=VwzieyUcF/ZMTFzfis1OwKCSMI7RkVgEGPCCvQMgNga6lRVq3M9AsNIHMQV4cbrwks+eTg6yDDWeq9xA0MprgrfqJnUz9mL824etgA7dytekiQTNtfd9S9wzJMjNjHr6MMSoFSxMxserF/k5I5onelPl8Jav2pi0tfjx+LE85LbdjQkw2qBaqmlHHpDuQlHuRoFx/wUkkOENNBQmVkBpO7tQlms+X1ecKRevc+wjbk7MR7IRCV4wS0WZnD35BoCRF5JPCvn7Ph9UAqWW1e41moEOpjbHkz4fYBRCSVTnEDzsDvCx37zIUTJ50fixTxRCW032JI222fAXL2/VP/m5Pg== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1651451714; bh=KsbH6tjzBHOTmvUG5xUq5dETGeW3s4yOZmkWhkKSdb0=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=Sq18z0DyTZHXFzaFc1RgyGkB1k4eS5XXXbhRtWh/hZYXsUdGS2tQ09NHnWJNOe8NSx/ZdFtmAVcCgGOusNdaC1XMLkVJ9aj5EGAvM5fcJH++F9sZ6Yp6c1pI/Knu72blmMVHEhIWq60K/ZhdsA3BUfd4qRLWQpDNCBR3EYJW4K4H+6QENcSMWn40M1dFcXzuMG+nVxYKZC3LX126q8z305QSndxFg9nPAW302ur0KAXn7MvSkUIOeqmAjPMIGefONThfNFOZjoaUHJf8tJY4aoKmHv0ryt1rj8gBZkr2LcHgrT1XP6reToNTX3m3BBqTIUPg2hEHN5YZQMFdhcp52w== X-YMail-OSG: GBL0YLMVM1mbOAHlWyVFnztr_qGH_yd.sFOnFRZugS6M7zNICpupU25H8oGP0PT 6w6T01yLbG8bepg_VVMp75tAJNNpjOcY0XhcGpIDNrE8UZWmAE5R23Tj1IhNOHiWv7oHwgEBdMIR et9H74_jaYcn_EZrkgQwcW6J3nPI4hV3F5kyXAI6XgT_ymYIKDlqNd02gRqR.opXZafyv2FWhIC3 oMReN3ZLtIU3rBeRufVTQVeva2jvmMrnTF0Elh.XA6ZJjSWfeBv.xP7.yB2SLMFxJLxzD239QQSE pjHEu58ISDhKceWKoh84SXQkNiGYkpur2iLqshflgVL_u53CazyyOpnq1eBG.bCVeIsvhiVvOQEG cTwEepGalXwAA9N5DPJg0OLxOBefQBalcx25dUyyat6yYsIIZuOloKGtF50vmPn9Hk4_3j9qvQci Mk_ICjnRP98jZsS1V6KAesxkuXWrz.7PAzHic8iUA9jPXQtw.bBJbdILZmHIeagfNTMI3.JeaP6w IUORW7NXcht2mCKD3KGAy5LD9I_UWaqQGZqeiwHmn606Gxtfa3W3grv2T1GfPB.cgyvSkmf7cG.B w5DczmAaFeGivi7vO6CEfIwFGIGKYlAcoM_qpstL8mFNvXEuc6xC2TmEV6ALIpnSj6K5ez3TjOF1 Gk.PqDikRd9YCstGqnPnUcqO30Wa1iHT3v4JIvF_JLF62sP0KvnlVnbpC7.fU3elWx9XsO3sQLNO kXhOVrZVNoJIchLXovG4EQH0UrG1e2Bfn5xpyfGro_ClFq9P_CF1PGc1RqaykukkWFDRRDFvfwlr .fOZsJMLcKTogOdUSFN.VEOAamQJ.3yek9_JbMUTuh3y04HJ6LWRW85VEJYE88eTc0qOBopQ9ftf Ue3.E1tVe7QDBZGTSNsc3E65m6vFmGMQoxl..g3wSHU3FJ7nGuTCBraOTbQHsg9TtpAxeyHeZ_xD TVCxQhWcuTXw580T9Ukr40swAZ1InV5vS_Wpu1sw58uTrYSGa_.X7VDGNJQZxTH2KCzMRGCbZ2hb 934AtOJfQWDLT4eUJgxWC4jh5Zc1m37rnJPqr.a0KoXqr0NlemZTvmKfhGqLlYPxz2lYjgoB.ZU3 jbz.bIeFrK57cgG8MkvaZTOvb0NIaTpIqsU0QVmDKlnjIFRL2YpcaYZwZ2KGtxD1mUwiiXdsRCWY PMBpTGdQG8zJyurYEpUokBya0erF4i28G31rOUflG15KbhgssnzPy5KC8LQSjT6EDCvpha0fZVcb 0Q22KK7U9Ntx.IxBXEuJGU84iXeR4ZitI4QjDXXSrcL61gLn2Si1kZ7TRhdSKVKChVF7jh5J8Hma UGmPK6zI_RMnb70IhyTErEOLyqFWBJmBACMY4FunHhaeIOpOsPsYqfOxzRm6kw_8DX6BR384HzvI X95Oqsy5WubHEGGyYGcm_dnFjUa1MZhiYRtLE2d2mazZQuI8tfg4i_escQNbbSSuUK3yK_DvEJmA vQjZClwwdPFJgOhzKuKNLmPqzpesGSRC6LQU5KmnNEcCy0BmCmBU2ApkKqLMyFHmUPpZ_WXXBCwi 2g8sWyp6d6iREkF6nqZnqe3wIcokELteGN.Ry7614MSANeVn1A1_EJxUBmQVoWrKWi_GxiQfenyl VajA9gOp1FqRKmBfIe49Y8GC_u3NMVvtHnm2nvIfJX89rGLeJicB5zBdngLKHfF2hSG9GCsIKSIO UyW8oazm3zI8Zk3diLzNHK9RLlMOeWIgiGUTYGvrOrp1GBxRlSJCu48IrfZ32ymEuwpRgJx6H7.R 99TZfggRl41RtAeuCcxNPIrzi1_e67_pXWybw0ZWYmpjDEQ4803QnEVLF5YKOzaPMOpy_KUi6OI8 Xc37_fYauREWMT5Z8ovoalIw9sJyMJEtijOg093gfOEiMre57Yr4rvCh6WHWaBTyfqqYbMl9BXoU Cf.Qs0QMT_bvY.EX2KQ58WiKaAmjNUSWX9Hx9Jb3USUZVOoYz2ipxz.vK0NPqT87MihnidAdTfbC 6MP4vGqH3tQtERUcTaOmVF2NzBNBMeYCNG7dlxFuVMLq7EzZvwFIr2fjnaVzT57iRvX2C5yACVQa pyzX_Eb8S5xZapKUzl1Zl5QCrQssbYFbQMTEOstTs7BGB_Enkq5LYt_WG35Rxm_Pp7pv36U4LKh6 h063aNH8pA0IlZGBLv22m1muYBcoXBSt.obDABeZFfKN9t5rQb9cBXR0QFWNnu7lFnEvmpscr5ky pcgbNt.Y2lTjGjxWSU4ERjcRVTQns5e0njZHJ0RV5wZUA5GOgXp6CxySexT8QCIXntHGd X-Sonic-MF: Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic305.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 2 May 2022 00:35:14 +0000 Received: by hermes--canary-production-sg3-795d7b4d54-xv6hw (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 5969902e56390ac3edbaa2c600175c5a; Mon, 02 May 2022 00:35:10 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: [External] : bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <8735hu1u9o.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgk27fn6.fsf@gnu.org> <87r15ezim2.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1zm7e6q.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6c2zglu.fsf@gnus.org> <87ee1ertza.fsf@yahoo.com> <87k0b5tzqu.fsf@gnus.org> <87o80hr4nb.fsf@yahoo.com> <87zgk1poi2.fsf@gnus.org> <87h769r10l.fsf@yahoo.com> <874k29pme6.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6c1qzzk.fsf@yahoo.com> <875ympo4vy.fsf@gnus.org> <8735htqum4.fsf@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 02 May 2022 08:35:05 +0800 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 1 May 2022 16:19:28 +0000") Message-ID: <87tua8py9y.fsf@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.20118 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 583 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: "clement.pitclaudel@live.com" , Lars Ingebrigtsen , Eli Zaretskii , "23341@debbugs.gnu.org" <23341@debbugs.gnu.org>, martin rudalics X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Drew Adams writes: > FWIW, I don't see why `x-show-tip' is being > considered "internal". And I'm one who uses it in > external libraries. > > If `tooltip-show' can use `x-show-tip' then so > can "external" code that does something similar. `x-show-tip' is an internal function because it exposes dangerous features to Lisp. If the `frame' parameter is an invisible frame, the tooltip will be displayed unpredictably by different window managers. There are also some things you can put in `params' that will make Emacs crash, but I don't remember which. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 7f665fb5-7e8a-4a57-883a-08da2be22665 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 02 May 2022 02:19:13.2669 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: bmvNDRkyxDD68I1ovbbVVslFvpWH8t+CzrEFPi/mdj3PCq91tCjaJWKX40UkYmXR/sVC29DHxHGnjYvBJjo9gg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR10MB1982 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.486, 18.0.858 definitions=2022-05-01_09:2022-04-28, 2022-05-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=870 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2202240000 definitions=main-2205020015 X-Proofpoint-GUID: G3YKN-1tqYoh01K-pN49Ezntq9KcLiWy X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: G3YKN-1tqYoh01K-pN49Ezntq9KcLiWy X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: "clement.pitclaudel@live.com" , Lars Ingebrigtsen , Eli Zaretskii , "23341@debbugs.gnu.org" <23341@debbugs.gnu.org>, martin rudalics X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > FWIW, I don't see why `x-show-tip' is being > > considered "internal". And I'm one who uses it in > > external libraries. > > > > If `tooltip-show' can use `x-show-tip' then so > > can "external" code that does something similar. >=20 > `x-show-tip' is an internal function because it exposes dangerous > features to Lisp. Dangerous? Too dangerous for Lisp? Please do elaborate. > If the `frame' parameter is an invisible frame, the tooltip will be > displayed unpredictably by different window managers. Lots of things can happen unpredictably with frames, per different window managers. And invisible frames are used seldom - so much so that Emacs has even (misguidedly) toyed with the idea of getting rid of their support. But pray, please do elaborate? What's so special about tooltips here? Please consider documenting it, whatever it is - especially the "dangerous" bit. And if this happens with tooltips then what makes you think it's limited to the use of `x-show-tip'? Just what is `x-show-tip'- specific? > There are also some things you can put in `params' > that will make Emacs crash, but I don't remember which. Some things? In 'params'? (PARMS maybe?) =20 Any crash is an Emacs bug (in C code). Needs to be fixed, regardless of who's authorized to use `x-show-tip'. If there are problems/gotchas/bugs/mysteries wrt PARMS, or anything else your vague response is meant to intimate, please fix or document them. There's no difference in this regard between what "core Emacs developers" need (and need to know) when using `x-show-tip' and what other Emacs developers need (i.e., users who develop 3rd-party libraries) need. Fix it or document it. That's the proper response for something useful that (you think) has problems. Trying to wall it off with mysterious bluster is, well, I won't say... 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID cebe43d9b2f961b2613ed53e83b3ae84; Mon, 02 May 2022 02:50:12 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: [External] : bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <8735hu1u9o.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgk27fn6.fsf@gnu.org> <87r15ezim2.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1zm7e6q.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6c2zglu.fsf@gnus.org> <87ee1ertza.fsf@yahoo.com> <87k0b5tzqu.fsf@gnus.org> <87o80hr4nb.fsf@yahoo.com> <87zgk1poi2.fsf@gnus.org> <87h769r10l.fsf@yahoo.com> <874k29pme6.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6c1qzzk.fsf@yahoo.com> <875ympo4vy.fsf@gnus.org> <8735htqum4.fsf@yahoo.com> <87tua8py9y.fsf@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 02 May 2022 10:50:07 +0800 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 2 May 2022 02:19:13 +0000") Message-ID: <871qxcps0w.fsf@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.20118 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 2451 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: "clement.pitclaudel@live.com" , Lars Ingebrigtsen , Eli Zaretskii , "23341@debbugs.gnu.org" <23341@debbugs.gnu.org>, martin rudalics X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Drew Adams writes: > Lots of things can happen unpredictably with > frames, per different window managers. Not if you use `tooltip-show', I think. > And invisible frames are used seldom - so > much so that Emacs has even (misguidedly) > toyed with the idea of getting rid of their > support. > > But pray, please do elaborate? What's so > special about tooltips here? Tooltips are made transient for the frame they are displayed in. Compositing managers look at the WM_TRANSIENT_FOR property on tooltip frames (which are a special kind of frame created without any widgets that are always override redirect) to determine how to display the tooltip. Those frames are also displayed outside the usual redisplay machinery, and only once, inside `x-show-tip'. > Please consider documenting it, whatever > it is - especially the "dangerous" bit. > > And if this happens with tooltips then what > makes you think it's limited to the use of > `x-show-tip'? Just what is `x-show-tip'- > specific? That cannot happen with `tooltip-show'. > Some things? In 'params'? (PARMS maybe?) > > Any crash is an Emacs bug (in C code). Needs to > be fixed, regardless of who's authorized to use > `x-show-tip'. So crashing on some kinds of invalid bytecode is an Emacs bug, for that same reason? > If there are problems/gotchas/bugs/mysteries wrt > PARMS, or anything else your vague response is > meant to intimate, please fix or document them. `tool-bar-position' is one example of such a problematic frame parameter, and there are many others, but I never enumerated all of them. Lisp code should _never_ manipulate tooltip frames. They are special on the C level in that many assumptions (such as there being a GTK or Xt widget for each frame), or that the frame has at least one window that isn't a "pseudo window" do not hold. This is also why we bend over backwards to not make tooltip frames visible to Lisp inside frame lists and probably the display-buffer stuff as well. > There's no difference in this regard between what > "core Emacs developers" need (and need to know) > when using `x-show-tip' and what other Emacs > developers need (i.e., users who develop 3rd-party > libraries) need. > > Fix it or document it. That's the proper response > for something useful that (you think) has problems. It is documented. The doc string says: This is an internal function; Lisp code should call `tooltip-show'. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: a2bdb44b-d386-4017-b109-08da2c4b95a3 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 02 May 2022 14:53:57.0892 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: wTAwxeRRJyftaiVayNrXegFxVfuzMaNnl4QLuMVHgT+2S8YcTEsmx2bCDb6H4ZraxcDLVZpi+HKvOULLIqd7UQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: PH0PR10MB4566 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.486, 18.0.858 definitions=2022-05-02_04:2022-05-02, 2022-05-02 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2202240000 definitions=main-2205020116 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: o5W0q5ancXNcroT2drtveSax6wWGx9A3 X-Proofpoint-GUID: o5W0q5ancXNcroT2drtveSax6wWGx9A3 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: "clement.pitclaudel@live.com" , Lars Ingebrigtsen , Eli Zaretskii , "23341@debbugs.gnu.org" <23341@debbugs.gnu.org>, martin rudalics X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > Lots of things can happen unpredictably with > > frames, per different window managers. >=20 > Not if you use `tooltip-show', I think. That's like saying "not if you use `forward-char'. `tooltip-show' doesn't let you do what `x-show-tip' does. That's what this discussion is about (IMHO). > > And invisible frames are used seldom - so > > much so that Emacs has even (misguidedly) > > toyed with the idea of getting rid of their > > support. > > > > But pray, please do elaborate? What's so > > special about tooltips here? >=20 > Tooltips are made transient for the frame they are displayed in. > Compositing managers look at the WM_TRANSIENT_FOR property on tooltip > frames (which are a special kind of frame created without any widgets > that are always override redirect) to determine how to display the > tooltip. Those frames are also displayed outside the usual redisplay > machinery, and only once, inside `x-show-tip'. If `tooltip-show' can use `x-show-tip' then so can user code. That's the point. Whatever guidance applies to _how_ `tooltip-show' uses `x-show-tip' - whatever super-careful, wise, limited use is deemed necessary or desirable, can be made just as well by user code. Make that guidance explicit, and please be sure to make clear just what is really necessary and what is extra, helpful, nice-to-know guidance. That will add, not subtract, from Emacs. > > Please consider documenting it, whatever > > it is - especially the "dangerous" bit. > > > > And if this happens with tooltips then what > > makes you think it's limited to the use of > > `x-show-tip'? Just what is `x-show-tip'- > > specific? >=20 > That cannot happen with `tooltip-show'. See above. If that's the case then it means that `tooltip-show' uses `x-show-tip' in a particular way. Document that guidance. That's all that's needed (if really needed). > > Some things? In 'params'? (PARMS maybe?) > > > > Any crash is an Emacs bug (in C code). Needs to > > be fixed, regardless of who's authorized to use > > `x-show-tip'. >=20 > So crashing on some kinds of invalid bytecode is > an Emacs bug, for that same reason? Emacs has long held that _any_ crash is an Emacs bug, yes. If nothing else, Emacs should catch the error and handle it more gracefully than an out-and-out crash. > > If there are problems/gotchas/bugs/mysteries wrt > > PARMS, or anything else your vague response is > > meant to intimate, please fix or document them. >=20 > `tool-bar-position' is one example of such a problematic frame > parameter, and there are many others, but I never enumerated all of > them. Enumerate them. Or not, if you can't. That's the proper approach. What's good for the `tooltip-show' goose's use of `x-show-tip' is also good for user uses of `x-show-tip'. > Lisp code should _never_ manipulate tooltip frames. > They are special on > the C level in that many assumptions (such as there being a GTK or Xt > widget for each frame), or that the frame has at least one window that > isn't a "pseudo window" do not hold. This is also why we bend over > backwards to not make tooltip frames visible to Lisp inside frame lists > and probably the display-buffer stuff as well. Again, whatever is sane for `tooltip-show's use of `x-show-tip' is just as sane for user use of it. The same caveats and guidance, if any, apply - equally. There's nothing magical about Lisp function `tooltip-show'. > > There's no difference in this regard between what > > "core Emacs developers" need (and need to know) > > when using `x-show-tip' and what other Emacs > > developers need (i.e., users who develop 3rd-party > > libraries) need. > > > > Fix it or document it. That's the proper response > > for something useful that (you think) has problems. >=20 > It is documented. The doc string says: >=20 > This is an internal function; Lisp code should call `tooltip-show'. That's misguided. Let's not promulgate the old user/developer divide from the 1960s. That's not doc of how to use it. If that's the only thing you can say, then remove its use from `tooltip-show' - the same considerations apply. If you have something useful to say, about how `x-show-tip' should (let only must) be used, then provide users with that guidance. That's what "fix it or document it" means. 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID c86242532b4da1d8499e6e1970d2583f; Tue, 03 May 2022 00:22:23 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: [External] : bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <8735hu1u9o.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgk27fn6.fsf@gnu.org> <87r15ezim2.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1zm7e6q.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6c2zglu.fsf@gnus.org> <87ee1ertza.fsf@yahoo.com> <87k0b5tzqu.fsf@gnus.org> <87o80hr4nb.fsf@yahoo.com> <87zgk1poi2.fsf@gnus.org> <87h769r10l.fsf@yahoo.com> <874k29pme6.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6c1qzzk.fsf@yahoo.com> <875ympo4vy.fsf@gnus.org> <8735htqum4.fsf@yahoo.com> <87tua8py9y.fsf@yahoo.com> <871qxcps0w.fsf@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 03 May 2022 08:22:17 +0800 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 2 May 2022 14:53:57 +0000") Message-ID: <87v8uno47a.fsf@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.20118 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 281 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: "clement.pitclaudel@live.com" , Lars Ingebrigtsen , Eli Zaretskii , "23341@debbugs.gnu.org" <23341@debbugs.gnu.org>, martin rudalics X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Drew Adams writes: > That's like saying "not if you use `forward-char'. > `tooltip-show' doesn't let you do what `x-show-tip' > does. That's what this discussion is about (IMHO). And what exactly doesn't `tooltip-show' let you do, that `x-show-tip' can? 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: dd7026dd-5a7f-42c8-7e81-08da2ca4c710 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 May 2022 01:32:25.2195 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: Dm/stOiDWPYseAy25Cs+CUsqvTSB4eWVAp5MDyOgp9hd0zB4q6pw8iO65FDPx77i04PNOTyiPBf4LaUjxRv2YQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR10MB3356 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.486, 18.0.858 definitions=2022-05-02_08:2022-05-02, 2022-05-02 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=933 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2202240000 definitions=main-2205030009 X-Proofpoint-GUID: ViXJ_je9jeQLRM6kGbjsibW8PaSgJHuF X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: ViXJ_je9jeQLRM6kGbjsibW8PaSgJHuF X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: "clement.pitclaudel@live.com" , Lars Ingebrigtsen , Eli Zaretskii , "23341@debbugs.gnu.org" <23341@debbugs.gnu.org>, martin rudalics X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > `tooltip-show' doesn't let you do what `x-show-tip' > > does. That's what this discussion is about (IMHO). >=20 > And what exactly doesn't `tooltip-show' let you do,=20 > that `x-show-tip'can? Everything that's not determined by the specific call that `tooltip-show' makes of `x-show-tip'. Obviously. That's a very specific, narrow call - it nails down almost everything that `x-show-tip' takes as an argument. ;; After getting the frame parameters from ;; `tooltip-frame-parameters', and perhaps ;; updating the foreground and background from ;; those of face `tooltip': ;; (x-show-tip (propertize text 'face 'tooltip) (selected-frame) **THOSE-TOOLTIP-PARAMETERS** tooltip-hide-delay tooltip-x-offset tooltip-y-offset)) IOW, the only possible input to the whole deal, affecting the appearance, is TEXT. All the rest is baked in.=20 Now, you can say that code could always bind all of those `tooltip-*' thingies around a call to `tooltip-show'. Sure, it could. It could end up redefining, in effect, `x-tooltip-show'. I'd say it makes more sense to (also) let users use the more general, more versatile function itself, `x-show-tip' - just as `tooltip-show' does. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID d358a7e3e260269a9c50de24be10e8e3; Tue, 03 May 2022 02:01:47 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: [External] : bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <83zgk27fn6.fsf@gnu.org> <87r15ezim2.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1zm7e6q.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6c2zglu.fsf@gnus.org> <87ee1ertza.fsf@yahoo.com> <87k0b5tzqu.fsf@gnus.org> <87o80hr4nb.fsf@yahoo.com> <87zgk1poi2.fsf@gnus.org> <87h769r10l.fsf@yahoo.com> <874k29pme6.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6c1qzzk.fsf@yahoo.com> <875ympo4vy.fsf@gnus.org> <8735htqum4.fsf@yahoo.com> <87tua8py9y.fsf@yahoo.com> <871qxcps0w.fsf@yahoo.com> <87v8uno47a.fsf@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 03 May 2022 10:01:42 +0800 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 3 May 2022 01:32:25 +0000") Message-ID: <87fslrnzll.fsf@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.20118 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 1426 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: "clement.pitclaudel@live.com" , Lars Ingebrigtsen , Eli Zaretskii , "23341@debbugs.gnu.org" <23341@debbugs.gnu.org>, martin rudalics X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Drew Adams writes: > Everything that's not determined by the specific > call that `tooltip-show' makes of `x-show-tip'. Which includes? Almost everything `x-show-tip' accepts can be changed when using `tooltip-show', and anything that cannot is simply unsafe, because none of the code was designed around or tested with that assumption. > IOW, the only possible input to the whole deal, > affecting the appearance, is TEXT. All the > rest is baked in. There could also be `tooltip-frame-parameters', but I fail to see the relevance. > Now, you can say that code could always bind > all of those `tooltip-*' thingies around a call > to `tooltip-show'. Sure, it could. It could > end up redefining, in effect, `x-tooltip-show'. That is indeed the way to go. > I'd say it makes more sense to (also) let users > use the more general, more versatile function > itself, `x-show-tip' - just as `tooltip-show' does. I disagree, once again, because it's simply not safe. If someone volunteers to look through all the X-related code that involves accessing frame widgets, pseudo windows, redisplay, and other frame parameters and window properties such as `override-redirect' and WM_TRANSIENT_FOR, then that might be okay, but so far nobody has done that. (And probably nobody will either, since no matter what you say, `x-show-tip' is still an internal function that user code should not touch.) 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 374b484d-4aa6-4631-a7f8-08da2cbbab51 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 May 2022 04:16:17.0639 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: dyCb8LbqyV5vkcbiYD9l0UAVB4g/+Iu68lcEcX7JsoJxr5fXvDp42+mqVYXjwLt7ZyJ33OLPsY/WMEcnGXDI5w== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR10MB3223 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.486, 18.0.858 definitions=2022-05-03_01:2022-05-02, 2022-05-03 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2202240000 definitions=main-2205030030 X-Proofpoint-GUID: 79YRmRDhNQhe5o5kItK6kD07MyOFJje6 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 79YRmRDhNQhe5o5kItK6kD07MyOFJje6 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: "clement.pitclaudel@live.com" , Lars Ingebrigtsen , Eli Zaretskii , "23341@debbugs.gnu.org" <23341@debbugs.gnu.org>, martin rudalics X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > Everything that's not determined by the specific > > call that `tooltip-show' makes of `x-show-tip'. >=20 > Which includes? Almost everything `x-show-tip'=20 > accepts can be changed when using `tooltip-show', Huh? _None_ of `x-show-tip's args is available to `tooltip-show' - except the TEXT/STRING arg. > and anything that cannot is simply unsafe, > because none of the code was designed around=20 > or tested with that assumption. Anything safe enough for `tooltip-show' to use is safe enough for `x-show-tip' to use. That much should be obvious, and that much you should agree with, I think. All the former does is call the latter. The args it passes to `x-show-tip' are wide open as to their possible values. Limiting args passed to `x-show-tip' to the possible values that `tooltip-show' can pass to it clearly doesn't change anything wrt "danger" or something that's not designed or is untested. It's only a question of HOW those values are passed - in a crude, clumsy, straitjacket way or in the usual, open, Lispy arg-passing way. Now maybe you want to make an explicit claim that the set of all possible values for those `tooltip-*' settings are all that should ever be passed to `x-show-tip', because they're all you're sure of (designed, tested). If so, go right ahead. Put that in the guidance, if you're so sure of those values, and so unsure of any others. > > IOW, the only possible input to the whole deal, > > affecting the appearance, is TEXT. All the > > rest is baked in. >=20 > There could also be `tooltip-frame-parameters', > but I fail to see the relevance. That, and every other arg that `tooltip-show' passes to `x-show-tip' - face `tooltip', `tooltip-*' vars, etc. Pretty wide open. Collect all their possible values, if you think they're so well designed and tested. Tell users of `x-show-tip' to use only those values as args. End of story. Then you end up, in effect, with a better, more flexible, more normal, more lispy `tooltip-show'. You end up with `x-show-tip' plus your guidance, which you seem to be so sure of (though it's pretty smoky, so far). Go for it, if that's your real message: only those values are sure and safe. Only whatever face `tooltip' could possibly be. Only what `tooltip-frame-parameters' could be. Only what `tooltip-hide-delay', `tooltip-x-offset', and `tooltip-y-offset' could possibly be. Do you really believe that their possible values make things safe? Fine, tell users not to use any other values. I don't have a problem with your telling users that - not at all. That's still _wide open_. > > Now, you can say that code could always bind > > all of those `tooltip-*' thingies around a call > > to `tooltip-show'. Sure, it could. It could > > end up redefining, in effect, `x-tooltip-show'. >=20 > That is indeed the way to go. Really? You really think so? > > I'd say it makes more sense to (also) let users > > use the more general, more versatile function > > itself, `x-show-tip' - just as `tooltip-show' does. >=20 > I disagree, once again, because it's simply not safe. See above. Same safety - identical. (defun foo (string &optional frame parms timeout dx dy use-echo-area) (with-selected-frame frame) (let ((text string) (tooltip-frame-parameters (copy-sequence parms)) (tooltip-hide-delay timeout) (tooltip-x-offset dx) (tooltip-y-offset dy)) (tooltip-show text use-echo-area)))) Does that make you feel safer? =20 > If someone > volunteers to look through all the X-related code that involves > accessing frame widgets, pseudo windows, redisplay, and other frame > parameters and window properties such as `override-redirect' and > WM_TRANSIENT_FOR, then that might be okay, but so far nobody has done > that. (And probably nobody will either, since no matter what you say, > `x-show-tip' is still an internal function that user code should not > touch.) Bof. More bluster. 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 608738fdd30206269a47f25024fb57ad; Tue, 03 May 2022 04:44:20 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: [External] : bug#23341: x-show-tip does not respect the value of tooltip-hide-delay, and the default tooltip timeout isn't configurable References: <571AE240.2090103@live.com> <83y1zm7e6q.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6c2zglu.fsf@gnus.org> <87ee1ertza.fsf@yahoo.com> <87k0b5tzqu.fsf@gnus.org> <87o80hr4nb.fsf@yahoo.com> <87zgk1poi2.fsf@gnus.org> <87h769r10l.fsf@yahoo.com> <874k29pme6.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6c1qzzk.fsf@yahoo.com> <875ympo4vy.fsf@gnus.org> <8735htqum4.fsf@yahoo.com> <87tua8py9y.fsf@yahoo.com> <871qxcps0w.fsf@yahoo.com> <87v8uno47a.fsf@yahoo.com> <87fslrnzll.fsf@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 03 May 2022 12:44:15 +0800 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 3 May 2022 04:16:17 +0000") Message-ID: <87wnf3mdi8.fsf@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.20118 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 1865 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23341 Cc: "clement.pitclaudel@live.com" , Lars Ingebrigtsen , Eli Zaretskii , "23341@debbugs.gnu.org" <23341@debbugs.gnu.org>, martin rudalics X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Drew Adams writes: > Huh? _None_ of `x-show-tip's args is available > to `tooltip-show' - except the TEXT/STRING arg. They can all be set by binding stuff around the call to `tooltip-show'. > If so, go right ahead. Put that in the > guidance, if you're so sure of those values, > and so unsure of any others. [...] > That, and every other arg that `tooltip-show' > passes to `x-show-tip' - face `tooltip', > `tooltip-*' vars, etc. Pretty wide open. > > Collect all their possible values, if you think > they're so well designed and tested. Tell users > of `x-show-tip' to use only those values as args. > End of story. So do it, because I'm not. And before that happens, `x-show-tip' will remain an internal function, joining the ranks of others such as `xw-color-values', `x-internal-focus-input-context' and `handle-save-session'. Its arguments (or their meanings) might change at any time, etc, etc. > Really? You really think so? Yes, I do. > See above. Same safety - identical. > > (defun foo (string &optional frame parms timeout dx dy > use-echo-area) > (with-selected-frame frame) > (let ((text string) > (tooltip-frame-parameters (copy-sequence parms)) > (tooltip-hide-delay timeout) > (tooltip-x-offset dx) > (tooltip-y-offset dy)) > (tooltip-show text use-echo-area)))) > > Does that make you feel safer? It does. And if some problem comes up later, we can always change the `tooltip-show' abstraction to avoid it. > Bof. More bluster. Nonsense. You can try resizing, or setting size hints on, or changing the toolbar position of a tooltip frame, and it will either crash or simply not work. Not to mention that in some window systems there are simply no tooltip frames at all. From unknown Tue Jun 24 22:34:21 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Tue, 31 May 2022 11:24:07 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator