From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Mar 27 18:34:23 2016 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Mar 2016 22:34:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40497 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1akJGJ-0007an-Jm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Mar 2016 18:34:23 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:57439) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1akJGH-0007aW-5P for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Mar 2016 18:34:21 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1akJG8-0007i4-52 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Mar 2016 18:34:12 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,XPRIO autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:55689) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1akJG8-0007hz-2E for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Mar 2016 18:34:12 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:48391) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1akJG7-0003Gv-4m for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 27 Mar 2016 18:34:11 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1akJG3-0007gx-Ta for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 27 Mar 2016 18:34:11 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:48617) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1akJG3-0007gn-Lx for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 27 Mar 2016 18:34:07 -0400 Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u2RMY5Ea024143 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2016 22:34:06 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u2RMY5I0014377 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2016 22:34:05 GMT Received: from abhmp0013.oracle.com (abhmp0013.oracle.com [141.146.116.19]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u2RMY3iW001508 for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2016 22:34:04 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 15:34:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 25.1.50; Prefix key is not echoed during minibuffer completion X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6744.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) 0. emacs -Q 1.=20 (defvar bar-map nil) (define-prefix-command 'bar-map) (define-key minibuffer-local-must-match-map "\M-i" 'bar-map) (define-key bar-map "\M-z" 'foo) (defun foo () (interactive) (message "FOOOOOOOOOOO") (sleep-for 2)) `M-x M-i' Wait a second. The prefix key `M-i' is NOT echoed. `M-z' The message from `foo' is shown. 2.=20 (global-set-key "\M-l" 'bar-map) `M-l' Wait a second. The prefix key `M-l' IS echoed. `M-z' The message from `foo' is shown. BUG: The prefix key `M-i' should be echoed during completion. In GNU Emacs 25.1.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2015-12-10 Repository revision: 6148555ee5a3d0139ae517803718b3e0357933c7 Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: 'configure --prefix=3D/c/Devel/emacs/snapshot/trunk --enable-checking=3Dye= s --enable-check-lisp-object-type --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=3D-Og -ggdb3' LDFLAGS=3D-Lc:/Devel/emacs/lib 'CPPFLAGS=3D-DGC_MCHECK=3D1 -Ic:/Devel/emacs/include'' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Mar 28 11:22:05 2016 Received: (at 23129) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Mar 2016 15:22:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42193 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1akYzV-00035I-Kk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Mar 2016 11:22:05 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:53728) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1akYzU-00034p-Bd for 23129@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Mar 2016 11:22:04 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1akYzM-0005op-2S for 23129@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Mar 2016 11:21:59 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:56051) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1akYzM-0005ok-03; Mon, 28 Mar 2016 11:21:56 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4703 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1akYzB-0002Lq-9L; Mon, 28 Mar 2016 11:21:45 -0400 Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 18:21:26 +0300 Message-Id: <83shzay6fd.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams , Richard Stallman In-reply-to: (message from Drew Adams on Sun, 27 Mar 2016 15:34:02 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#23129: 25.1.50; Prefix key is not echoed during minibuffer completion References: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23129 Cc: 23129@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 15:34:02 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > > 0. emacs -Q > > 1. > (defvar bar-map nil) > (define-prefix-command 'bar-map) > (define-key minibuffer-local-must-match-map "\M-i" 'bar-map) > (define-key bar-map "\M-z" 'foo) > (defun foo () (interactive) (message "FOOOOOOOOOOO") (sleep-for 2)) > > `M-x M-i' > Wait a second. The prefix key `M-i' is NOT echoed. > `M-z' > The message from `foo' is shown. > > 2. > (global-set-key "\M-l" 'bar-map) > > `M-l' > Wait a second. The prefix key `M-l' IS echoed. > `M-z' > The message from `foo' is shown. Is it really necessary to use this complex setup? Does the following simple recipe exhibit the same behavior? (If not, please tell why not.) emacs -Q C-x C-f C-x "C-x C-f" causes the prompt showing the current directory; typing "C-x" afterwards has no visible effect, whereas you expect it to echo the usual "C-x-". Right? > BUG: The prefix key `M-i' should be echoed during completion. How do you mean "should"? AFAICT, this is a deliberate feature: we only echo the prefix keys when there's nothing in the minibuffer (more accurately, when the minibuffer level of recursion is zero). I guess this is so to avoid confusing prompts or something (Richard, can you comment on this?), but in any case this is how Emacs worked since forever. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Mar 28 12:00:48 2016 Received: (at 23129) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Mar 2016 16:00:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42223 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1akZay-00045w-Cw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Mar 2016 12:00:48 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:46048) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1akZaw-00045k-9y for 23129@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Mar 2016 12:00:46 -0400 Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u2SG0dP2018254 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 28 Mar 2016 16:00:40 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u2SG0dWA027013 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 28 Mar 2016 16:00:39 GMT Received: from abhmp0003.oracle.com (abhmp0003.oracle.com [141.146.116.9]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u2SG0bcf004189; Mon, 28 Mar 2016 16:00:39 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <5a83c42d-50c1-4217-b1dd-506814a7ed34@default> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 09:00:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams , Richard Stallman Subject: RE: bug#23129: 25.1.50; Prefix key is not echoed during minibuffer completion References: <> <<83shzay6fd.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83shzay6fd.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6744.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23129 Cc: 23129@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > 0. emacs -Q > > > > 1. > > (defvar bar-map nil) > > (define-prefix-command 'bar-map) > > (define-key minibuffer-local-must-match-map "\M-i" 'bar-map) > > (define-key bar-map "\M-z" 'foo) > > (defun foo () (interactive) (message "FOOOOOOOOOOO") (sleep-for 2)) > > > > `M-x M-i' > > Wait a second. The prefix key `M-i' is NOT echoed. > > `M-z' > > The message from `foo' is shown. > > > > 2. > > (global-set-key "\M-l" 'bar-map) > > > > `M-l' > > Wait a second. The prefix key `M-l' IS echoed. > > `M-z' > > The message from `foo' is shown. >=20 > Is it really necessary to use this complex setup? Complicated? It is intended to be clear and sufficient. Can you not reproduce the problem using that recipe? If you think the same bug can be repro'd another way, fine. > Does the following simple recipe exhibit the same behavior? > (If not, please tell why not.) >=20 > emacs -Q > C-x C-f C-x >=20 > "C-x C-f" causes the prompt showing the current directory; typing > "C-x" afterwards has no visible effect, whereas you expect it to echo > the usual "C-x-". Right? Is `C-x' a prefix key in `minibuffer-local-filename-completion-map' at that point? Yes, but not directly. So this is not quite the same as what I reported. But if you think it adequate to show the problem, fine. But consider also this: M-x C-( You see the message "C-( is undefined" for a second or so. `minibuffer-message' is presumably used to show this message. This shows Emacs's intention to provide help to users by echoing stuff even when the minibuffer is active. There is nothing odd about this. It is helpful, not harmful. > > BUG: The prefix key `M-i' should be echoed during completion. >=20 > How do you mean "should"? How do I mean "should"? Should. It is helpful for a user (as well as consistent) to echo the prefix keys s?he hits. > AFAICT, this is a deliberate feature: Do you have evidence for that? If so, I'll argue that that is a misfeature (design bug). If not, I'll argue that it is an oversight (implementation bug). I suspect it is an oversight, but I could be wrong. > we only echo the prefix keys when there's nothing in the > minibuffer (more accurately, when the minibuffer level of > recursion is zero). That's the bug. Whether deliberate or by accident, it is not helpful behavior. We echo lots of things when the minibuffer is active. That's what we have `minibuffer-message' for. > I guess this is so to avoid confusing prompts or something > (Richard, can you comment on this?), but in any case this is > how Emacs worked since forever. Yes, I know the bug is longstanding. And as long as we're guessing, I guess it is an oversight. I also know that Emacs itself has so far not bound many keys in minibuffer keymaps. But that has changed in the wider Emacs world. My guess is that vanilla Emacs never even considered the use case of prefix keys bound in minibuffer keymaps. A user hitting a prefix key during minibuffer input has just as much need to see that echoed as s?he does when hitting a prefix key at top-level. I see no reason not to echo it. It is not good interaction for users to see nothing happen when they hit keys, especially if those keys are bound and they do, in fact, have an (unreported) effect. [FWIW, in Icicles I echo prefix arguments (e.g. `C-u', `M-7') used during minibuffer input. And you can apply a prefix arg to individual candidates. Without such echoing, this interaction would be less helpful and more confusing than it needs to be. I haven't seen (or really looked for) a way to echo prefix keys as well, or else I would have done that also.] From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Mar 28 12:17:10 2016 Received: (at 23129) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Mar 2016 16:17:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42232 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1akZqo-0004bo-48 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Mar 2016 12:17:10 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:42227) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1akZqm-0004bZ-Ch for 23129@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Mar 2016 12:17:08 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1akZqe-0007Rt-0t for 23129@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Mar 2016 12:17:03 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:57213) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1akZqd-0007Ro-T5; Mon, 28 Mar 2016 12:16:59 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4758 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1akZqW-0007h6-5F; Mon, 28 Mar 2016 12:16:52 -0400 Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 19:16:33 +0300 Message-Id: <83io06y3vi.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: <5a83c42d-50c1-4217-b1dd-506814a7ed34@default> (message from Drew Adams on Mon, 28 Mar 2016 09:00:35 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#23129: 25.1.50; Prefix key is not echoed during minibuffer completion References: <> <<83shzay6fd.fsf@gnu.org>> <5a83c42d-50c1-4217-b1dd-506814a7ed34@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23129 Cc: rms@gnu.org, 23129@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 09:00:35 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 23129@debbugs.gnu.org > > > Does the following simple recipe exhibit the same behavior? > > (If not, please tell why not.) > > > > emacs -Q > > C-x C-f C-x > > > > "C-x C-f" causes the prompt showing the current directory; typing > > "C-x" afterwards has no visible effect, whereas you expect it to echo > > the usual "C-x-". Right? > > Is `C-x' a prefix key in `minibuffer-local-filename-completion-map' > at that point? What's the significance of minibuffer-local-filename-completion-map for the purposes of this issue? > > How do you mean "should"? > > How do I mean "should"? Should. It is helpful for a user > (as well as consistent) to echo the prefix keys s?he hits. There's also "should" as in "it did this yesterday or the last year". > > AFAICT, this is a deliberate feature: > > Do you have evidence for that? I've read the code. It does this explicitly and purposefully, there's no mistake about that. > Yes, I know the bug is longstanding. And as long as we're > guessing, I guess it is an oversight. We are not guessing, see below. The function echo_now is the one that echoes the prefix keys; look at the conditions (and the commentary, for that matter). I hope Richard will be able to shed some light on this. The code is very old, it was present in the initial commit in Jan 1992: /* If in middle of key sequence and minibuffer not active, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ start echoing if enough time elapses. */ if (minibuf_level == 0 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< && !end_time && !current_kboard->immediate_echo && (this_command_key_count > 0 || !NILP (call0 (Qinternal_echo_keystrokes_prefix))) && ! noninteractive && echo_keystrokes_p () && (/* No message. */ NILP (echo_area_buffer[0]) /* Or empty message. */ || (BUF_BEG (XBUFFER (echo_area_buffer[0])) == BUF_Z (XBUFFER (echo_area_buffer[0]))) /* Or already echoing from same kboard. */ || (echo_kboard && ok_to_echo_at_next_pause == echo_kboard) /* Or not echoing before and echoing allowed. */ || (!echo_kboard && ok_to_echo_at_next_pause))) { /* After a mouse event, start echoing right away. This is because we are probably about to display a menu, and we don't want to delay before doing so. */ if (EVENT_HAS_PARAMETERS (prev_event)) echo_now (); else { Lisp_Object tem0; save_getcjmp (save_jump); restore_getcjmp (local_getcjmp); tem0 = sit_for (Vecho_keystrokes, 1, 1); restore_getcjmp (save_jump); if (EQ (tem0, Qt) && ! CONSP (Vunread_command_events)) echo_now (); } } From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Mar 28 13:32:46 2016 Received: (at 23129) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Mar 2016 17:32:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42318 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1akb1y-0002vv-IO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Mar 2016 13:32:46 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:38522) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1akb1w-0002vi-R9 for 23129@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Mar 2016 13:32:45 -0400 Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u2SHWcq7010582 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 28 Mar 2016 17:32:38 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u2SHWbP6016308 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 28 Mar 2016 17:32:38 GMT Received: from abhmp0003.oracle.com (abhmp0003.oracle.com [141.146.116.9]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u2SHWbBH020754; Mon, 28 Mar 2016 17:32:37 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 10:32:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#23129: 25.1.50; Prefix key is not echoed during minibuffer completion References: <<>> <<<83shzay6fd.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<5a83c42d-50c1-4217-b1dd-506814a7ed34@default>> <<83io06y3vi.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83io06y3vi.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6744.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23129 Cc: rms@gnu.org, 23129@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > Is `C-x' a prefix key in `minibuffer-local-filename-completion-map' > > at that point? >=20 > What's the significance of minibuffer-local-filename-completion-map > for the purposes of this issue? The use case is a prefix-key binding in a minibuffer keymap. That is, a key that is specifically useful in the context of minibuffer input. The bug is not echoing a prefix key for an active minibuffer. Yes, any prefix key in any accessible keymap will do, to show the problem. But the really useful use cases are prefix keys bound in a minibuffer keymap. > > > How do you mean "should"? > > > > How do I mean "should"? Should. It is helpful for a user > > (as well as consistent) to echo the prefix keys s?he hits. >=20 > There's also "should" as in "it did this yesterday or the last > year". OK. (If that were the case then I would have said that this was a regression.) Anyway, it's now clear what I meant by "should", hopefully. > > > AFAICT, this is a deliberate feature: > > > > Do you have evidence for that? >=20 > I've read the code. It does this explicitly and purposefully, > there's no mistake about that. Fair enough. But just because someone codes something in a particular way, that does not say anything, by itself, about how much thought or user experience went into the design that it reflects (or creates). As I said, if this was by design then this is a design-bug report. The design is flawed/weak and can be improved in this regard. Using prefix keys in the minibuffer might not have been considered a great deal when this was implemented, even if the implementation shows that excluding their echo was deliberate. Prefix keys certainly are allowed to be used, even if users do not benefit from their being echoed. > The function echo_now is the one that echoes the prefix keys; > look at the conditions (and the commentary, for that matter). >=20 > I hope Richard will be able to shed some light on this. The code > is very old, it was present in the initial commit in Jan 1992: >=20 > /* If in middle of key sequence and minibuffer not active, > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > if (minibuf_level =3D=3D 0 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< OK, it was intentionally coded this way - it was not a coding oversight. It was a design oversight. I see no good reason for the design to exclude the minibuffer case for echoing. Do you? Maybe Richard will provide a good argument. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 08 11:56:22 2016 Received: (at 23129) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 15:56:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54774 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYli-0000uv-Bv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:56:22 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:21402) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYlg-0000ub-FZ for 23129@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:56:20 -0400 Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u38FuBFf001961 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 8 Apr 2016 15:56:12 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u38FuA54010902 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 8 Apr 2016 15:56:11 GMT Received: from abhmp0008.oracle.com (abhmp0008.oracle.com [141.146.116.14]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u38FuAL7006443; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 15:56:10 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 08:56:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: bug#23129: 25.1.50; Prefix key is not echoed during minibuffer completion References: <<>> <<<83shzay6fd.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<5a83c42d-50c1-4217-b1dd-506814a7ed34@default>> <<83io06y3vi.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6744.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23129 Cc: rms@gnu.org, 23129@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Having just noticed the merge message for bugs 22825 and 23240, and looking at the bug descriptions, it seems to me that both of them are essentially the same bug as this one, 23129, although this one is echoing during minibuffer input and that one is about input during key reading. (That one is not about just `C-h c'.)=20 And really the problem is more general than either of these bug descriptions. It is not just about prefix-key echoing being dropped during minibuffer completion. And it is not just about it being dropped during key reading. It is about prefix-key echoing being dropped when expecting some input from the user. The user has hit a prefix key and that is not getting echoed. The user gets no feedback. I recognize that minibuffer reading of input is different, in terms of implementation, from key reading (reading an event). But the user need is the same in these cases: a prefix key should be echoed, so the user knows what key s?he hit and knows what Emacs understood and expects. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 08 12:04:09 2016 Received: (at 23129) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 16:04:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54794 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYtF-00018Z-6t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:04:09 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:43154) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYtC-00018E-Nl for 23129@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:04:07 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYt3-0007vz-Dd for 23129@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:04:01 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:47184) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYt3-0007vu-AK; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:03:57 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4658 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYsw-0001M2-02; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:03:50 -0400 Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 19:03:19 +0300 Message-Id: <8337qwjdfc.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: (message from Drew Adams on Fri, 8 Apr 2016 08:56:09 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#23129: 25.1.50; Prefix key is not echoed during minibuffer completion References: <<>> <<<83shzay6fd.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<5a83c42d-50c1-4217-b1dd-506814a7ed34@default>> <<83io06y3vi.fsf@gnu.org>> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23129 Cc: rms@gnu.org, 23129@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 08:56:09 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: rms@gnu.org, 23129@debbugs.gnu.org > > Having just noticed the merge message for bugs 22825 and > 23240, and looking at the bug descriptions, it seems to me > that both of them are essentially the same bug as this one, > 23129, although this one is echoing during minibuffer input > and that one is about input during key reading. (That one > is not about just `C-h c'.) No, those two are different, and already fixed in the repository. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 24 06:07:19 2022 Received: (at 23129) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jan 2022 11:07:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42356 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nBxBv-00080F-NC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 06:07:19 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:49556) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nBxBt-000800-Jf for 23129@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 06:07:18 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=4sma5SluKnpTyX+WssA4Yq2xNZ/Hon+8SUkDc85IU14=; b=Yc/bVxj6mxOyH31LUehb2nCrMJ WC6VjIQ6ltEMu4ypfqC/rTLwXmtkrIzikZDLLt4Mi354AcrH/KmxAdzgyYb8Vgs/mGHh2YtgfWE5U SgibabhLUV6WyJKbtU1PigF2xzHKpJdEfAeuDh33RqOCKtpzASbwdKGNcD9S+AsrK4S8=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=giant) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nBxBj-00072X-9x; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 12:07:09 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#23129: 25.1.50; Prefix key is not echoed during minibuffer completion References: > <83shzay6fd.fsf@gnu.org>> <5a83c42d-50c1-4217-b1dd-506814a7ed34@default> <83io06y3vi.fsf@gnu.org> X-Now-Playing: The Smiths's _The World Won't Listen_: "Stretch out and wait" Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 12:07:06 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83io06y3vi.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 28 Mar 2016 19:16:33 +0300") Message-ID: <874k5t1jfp.fsf_-_@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > I've read the code. It does this explicitly and purposefully, there's > no mistake about that. And I don't think we want to change the behaviour here -- it would be pretty confusing. So I'm closing this bug report. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23129 Cc: rms@gnu.org, Drew Adams , 23129@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: > I've read the code. It does this explicitly and purposefully, there's > no mistake about that. And I don't think we want to change the behaviour here -- it would be pretty confusing. So I'm closing this bug report. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 24 06:07:26 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jan 2022 11:07:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42359 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nBxC1-00080a-UL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 06:07:26 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:49572) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nBxC0-00080D-Fd for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 06:07:24 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=uhNCgI84M233V9tvahTK38xiapEslIpyVUJU4501FBQ=; b=LKt5zZm8FejK5ePD2sGFWRNWIx 3EOos+2LzHIJdfk6zbE6gMSWzwOL5N3CzszOkmjqvAN8jctFGmCFHlASIhHyx9UId/lM5E9RfzZqM FZHZw/hlxU9MS5jq84VmU6BrISOgaz4jRenX7f2GQ26iBRIid45QDJSmXfc+uKLmFJ0w=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=giant) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nBxBs-00072g-ML for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 12:07:18 +0100 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 12:07:16 +0100 Message-Id: <8735ld1jff.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #23129 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 23129 wontfix close 23129 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) tags 23129 wontfix close 23129 quit From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:38:38 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2022 12:24:07 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator