From unknown Mon Aug 18 11:07:33 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#23085 <23085@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#23085 <23085@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 24.5; `customized-changed-options` Reply-To: bug#23085 <23085@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2025 18:07:33 +0000 retitle 23085 24.5; `customized-changed-options` reassign 23085 emacs submitter 23085 Drew Adams severity 23085 wishlist tag 23085 fixed thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Mar 21 18:45:26 2016 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Mar 2016 22:45:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57492 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ai8Zi-0008TO-IW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 18:45:26 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:48156) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ai8Zh-0008TD-Iz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 18:45:25 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ai8Zb-0006eH-Gh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 18:45:20 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: **** X-Spam-Status: No, score=4.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,XPRIO autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:55678) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ai8Zb-0006eD-DB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 18:45:19 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39110) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ai8Za-00075R-IY for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 18:45:19 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ai8ZV-0006dg-HS for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 18:45:18 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:44991) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ai8ZV-0006db-9m for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 18:45:13 -0400 Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u2LMjBL3032519 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 22:45:12 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u2LMjBlS001027 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 22:45:11 GMT Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u2LMjACP009562 for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 22:45:10 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <1d396d5e-a6ea-4f44-8b14-3eeeb2bb10ae@default> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 15:45:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.5; `customized-changed-options` X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6744.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) This name should not be an alias for `customize-changed'. The doc string for that command says clearly that it "includes new user options and faces, and new customization groups, as well as older options and faces". It is NOT about only options. And the doc string combined with the unfortunate name is quite confusing. On the other hand, there should be separate commands that do the same thing as `customize-changed' but for ONLY options and ONLY faces. IOW, we SHOULD have a `customize-changed-options' and a customize-changed-faces', but the former should NOT be an alias for `customize-changed'. In GNU Emacs 24.5.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2015-04-11 on LEG570 Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --prefix=3D/c/usr --host=3Di686-pc-mingw32' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Mar 26 20:52:31 2016 Received: (at 23085) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Mar 2016 00:52:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39035 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ajywR-0006JW-0N for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Mar 2016 20:52:31 -0400 Received: from mail-pf0-f169.google.com ([209.85.192.169]:36006) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ajywP-0006J9-AD for 23085@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Mar 2016 20:52:29 -0400 Received: by mail-pf0-f169.google.com with SMTP id u190so109542532pfb.3 for <23085@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 26 Mar 2016 17:52:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references :user-agent:mime-version; bh=Bn+rIDgVJo5o7MB7Dm3U3jS6hjVnqOcwQgt8TYTVA8I=; b=LdAuEKPlSwYE/KYr5qC3NzdBVCVPdHl7j+UoT425S7X3fIgmP6LxiCw0rT4ke3xC4a Qd4r4Hoxei3cD0y7x5XD5zj6FTRL9o3BlzhkfyZ/zL0hAVgVfi1NYiKjordDTRERnqN4 ae59W2J4aGFu64WklVHx+i39sBalHyQum3SSPwBXZ54HfQ9h+zfH87hMeS+xpv7Ynr6E jDm7Lno2IkTr7lI4jXJwD4pdRi9C0eUtPoGCTUqU5v+dcPCXeCZmJxnhE4RmhiCLd+Ya 7ofz5n/c4LWiSytRSYDzbr3JoBqgnb08XR6DZtodt+ZaFA0sE+Wm2/DJTZAE+kcafdVv 1o5A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :references:user-agent:mime-version; bh=Bn+rIDgVJo5o7MB7Dm3U3jS6hjVnqOcwQgt8TYTVA8I=; b=k6dgBMaeVzrA1sd+TobaOJ5QexaOe33FupowrLWgrTAObH9GQUgnrub2RujWmNvJIj 7KlPEYPVzS0nmkvkEy5Th+prB9Yf3ogeCoeWjTL2OVgrrZ54Z7i09BXNGCQmrOqkkT4F 8rwFOieOR7lA4dv5koZeTCq4jZxwfkNHDqqf2xmfhNk8TIYmmALmus6uXG7SU3xn+yTM AEovabhO0mIUwZKc/42TA3U4xS8nxjWU2/7/FECLO1tEjbD/chfPZW/M7j+tse0TYQnQ 3lv4cmRMeg+XUihHw8jc06IrqgKweCy9Eb9KPKiEKFVnrbEFgppUk5OBxhEsHsYvf1M/ WAgA== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJITIXRTRTZBc0shLn95la9Y2PbSGj7XtllTu0kyAxKNlHNiWya4vvOGNnz4lRdGzQ== X-Received: by 10.98.15.23 with SMTP id x23mr32070762pfi.60.1459039943580; Sat, 26 Mar 2016 17:52:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Hermes.local (76-234-68-79.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.68.79]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id kl14sm429423pab.23.2016.03.26.17.52.22 (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 26 Mar 2016 17:52:22 -0700 (PDT) From: John Wiegley X-Google-Original-From: "John Wiegley" Received: by Hermes.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 28B0F4FB513C; Sat, 26 Mar 2016 17:52:22 -0700 (PDT) To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#23085: 24.5; `customized-changed-options` In-Reply-To: <1d396d5e-a6ea-4f44-8b14-3eeeb2bb10ae@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 21 Mar 2016 15:45:09 -0700 (PDT)") Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 17:43:05 -0700 Message-ID: References: <1d396d5e-a6ea-4f44-8b14-3eeeb2bb10ae@default> User-Agent: Gnus/5.130014 (Ma Gnus v0.14) Emacs/25.0.92 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23085 Cc: 23085@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) >>>>> Drew Adams writes: > This name should not be an alias for `customize-changed'. The doc string for > that command says clearly that it "includes new user options and faces, and > new customization groups, as well as older options and faces". It is NOT > about only options. And the doc string combined with the unfortunate name is > quite confusing. > On the other hand, there should be separate commands that do the same thing > as `customize-changed' but for ONLY options and ONLY faces. > IOW, we SHOULD have a `customize-changed-options' and a > customize-changed-faces', but the former should NOT be an alias for > `customize-changed'. I agree, Drew. -- John Wiegley GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 07 09:08:07 2021 Received: (at 23085) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Feb 2021 14:08:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47148 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l8kjO-0005Ui-VH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2021 09:08:07 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:35946) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l8kjN-0005U9-Db for 23085@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2021 09:08:06 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=pd8l2NmRjv+BY9vDVxY1PnhY/h0FbuCCFVrHTbmHR5E=; b=Z3GJKtMuditxLzrnrnqx6DkDkB czHwfgxvQ0gL4fA/qZvFD8oRTbKd0r8EWhKvSix1n1WExAHsUbESB/K00YO4ckwWvuFNx81/fWgWw 7ecjEGP77ukqpb7XGEVp459iJvWP63PmRHRqVLzr1x4iCIb/V3eg/ruQzm8sEcq+MDwU=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1l8kjD-00014k-Rg; Sun, 07 Feb 2021 15:07:58 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#23085: 24.5; `customized-changed-options` References: <1d396d5e-a6ea-4f44-8b14-3eeeb2bb10ae@default> X-Now-Playing: Brigid Mae Power's _Oscarsongs_: "Walkin Down a Path" Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2021 15:07:54 +0100 In-Reply-To: <1d396d5e-a6ea-4f44-8b14-3eeeb2bb10ae@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 21 Mar 2016 15:45:09 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <87zh0g3r9h.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Drew Adams writes: > This name should not be an alias for `customize-changed'. The doc > string for that command says clearly that it "includes new user options > and faces, and new customization groups, as well as olde [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23085 Cc: 23085@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Drew Adams writes: > This name should not be an alias for `customize-changed'. The doc > string for that command says clearly that it "includes new user options > and faces, and new customization groups, as well as older options and > faces". It is NOT about only options. And the doc string combined with > the unfortunate name is quite confusing. > > On the other hand, there should be separate commands that do the same > thing as `customize-changed' but for ONLY options and ONLY faces. > > IOW, we SHOULD have a `customize-changed-options' and a > customize-changed-faces', but the former should NOT be an alias for > `customize-changed'. The alias was introduced here: commit bba50f8a9e697263139b19872ee0cc8f0e46b317 Author: Richard M. Stallman AuthorDate: Fri Dec 23 01:34:27 2005 +0000 (customize-changed-options-previous-release): Prev release is 21.1. (customize-changed-options): Doc fix. (customize-changed): New alias. And the doc string for customize-changed-options was changed to reflect what it does, i.e., what you'd expect `customize-changed' to do. This is kinda backwards, so I've now flipped this, and made `customize-changed-options' an obsolete alias. We could consider adding a new `customize-changed-options' command that just list user options, but it doesn't really seem that useful. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 07 09:08:18 2021 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Feb 2021 14:08:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47151 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l8kjW-0005V3-7V for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2021 09:08:18 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:35962) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l8kjT-0005Ub-3f for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2021 09:08:12 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=DysmZayfzkQATeuZsIK2FrIl1WnSlwO+fF8tMeFyIXI=; b=LREySEMlxM4M4Vcgj6baNrQHrF 3mz4Dw5aYtqi9ejA2BD2xKi77hxVit9FQ79XKm4k3J1ZmN4awglD9zjFyM9//XPl6OMgPouZEhSz1 Oqo4RprKa6y8o821azEJCP5SxMgsr1NTKRHwrDLROIpy7KnH49oV9QSzIMWoThfo6NFU=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1l8kjL-00014t-7U for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2021 15:08:05 +0100 Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2021 15:08:01 +0100 Message-Id: <87y2g03r9a.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #23085 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 23085 fixed close 23085 28.1 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 23085 fixed close 23085 28.1 quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 07 10:26:45 2021 Received: (at 23085) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Feb 2021 15:26:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48494 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l8lxU-0003bH-JO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2021 10:26:45 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35204) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l8lxT-0003b4-92 for 23085@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2021 10:26:43 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:59730) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l8lxM-0002Ub-IB; Sun, 07 Feb 2021 10:26:37 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:4154 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1l8lxB-0002qO-9R; Sun, 07 Feb 2021 10:26:35 -0500 Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2021 17:26:37 +0200 Message-Id: <83r1lrnbki.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87zh0g3r9h.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Sun, 07 Feb 2021 15:07:54 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#23085: 24.5; `customized-changed-options` References: <1d396d5e-a6ea-4f44-8b14-3eeeb2bb10ae@default> <87zh0g3r9h.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23085 Cc: 23085@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2021 15:07:54 +0100 > Cc: 23085@debbugs.gnu.org > > (customize-changed-options-previous-release): Prev release is 21.1. > (customize-changed-options): Doc fix. > (customize-changed): New alias. > > And the doc string for customize-changed-options was changed to reflect > what it does, i.e., what you'd expect `customize-changed' to do. > > This is kinda backwards, so I've now flipped this, and made > `customize-changed-options' an obsolete alias. I'm not sure this change is for the better: no one said that "options" should be interpreted narrowly as referring only to variables; and "customize-changed" is simply bad English and doesn't help understanding what it is about. So I think Richard was right with that change. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 07 13:08:50 2021 Received: (at 23085) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Feb 2021 18:08:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48699 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l8oUM-0001Gm-ED for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2021 13:08:50 -0500 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:43708) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l8oUJ-0001GU-S0 for 23085@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2021 13:08:49 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 117I5eK4139128; Sun, 7 Feb 2021 18:08:41 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=3at/1BHA20a1vnBEc4HU7YQ4d0NigsXUuGo27Xqi1QM=; b=BfZ8kN/BFuWW4bF4uppUseO++lGqrpU6lINt+QBGHjrB473R00wEo9Bx+0r41+qcCEkW IRXBO4Tip+XYUJD42yA6DbsS4SYzADGh3iMXEI4Dy41mbZqoOz4bIKHgJzhp8DcPjWka N+13eGu6QLlKdBPjMAj025U06pW5zitzKSmET5gC/SZuOAAkFfQ3C5IktSE4yAs/NZXv AjK746iskjSPUdC7X+c+vus692/C0Bn5k/TSrh1h9u/Kgxu3//oObDI2iIDCaaV2MTlo 8OZJC29DQe1hOpBy0SDl9AuWc7u3cGTVWq9ljpZzMrS2BwLHH4drj4R5vYgSJDQBPWfd UQ== Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 36hk2ka5gq-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); 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Sun, 7 Feb 2021 18:08:38 +0000 Received: from SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::dc4d:9cd0:2010:daa2]) by SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::dc4d:9cd0:2010:daa2%7]) with mapi id 15.20.3825.030; Sun, 7 Feb 2021 18:08:38 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#23085: 24.5; `customized-changed-options` Thread-Topic: [External] : Re: bug#23085: 24.5; `customized-changed-options` Thread-Index: AQHW/WWnYyiN3e1eIkO7gTmsv4i+bKpM9+rw Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 18:08:38 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1d396d5e-a6ea-4f44-8b14-3eeeb2bb10ae@default> <87zh0g3r9h.fsf@gnus.org> <83r1lrnbki.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83r1lrnbki.fsf@gnu.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: gnu.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gnu.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=oracle.com; x-originating-ip: [73.170.83.28] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 352f1d1b-856a-48f6-4b33-08d8cb9364fd x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SN6PR10MB3072: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 352f1d1b-856a-48f6-4b33-08d8cb9364fd X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 07 Feb 2021 18:08:38.6633 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: pnsJaX9TgE1MJZTs4mqN2dUvVnpKebP3fM3mUmz1tONDhlUXeEXQ/OOwO1kbTVQP3dou2/Z8R3borpQu+ABEcQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN6PR10MB3072 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6200 definitions=9888 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=999 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2102070130 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6200 definitions=9888 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 priorityscore=1501 clxscore=1011 impostorscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2102070130 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23085 Cc: "23085@debbugs.gnu.org" <23085@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > no one said that "options" > should be interpreted narrowly as referring only to variables; and > "customize-changed" is simply bad English and doesn't help > understanding what it is about. So I think Richard was right with > that change. * What does `M-x customize-option' do? * What does `M-x apropos-user-option' do? Such commands are an important way in which Emacs talks about itself and communicates with users. I can, however, agree that Emacs is somewhat inconsistent wrt terminology about user settings. I think the inconsistency has been brought in over time, in one or both directions. The greatest inconsistency is that the Emacs manual glossary entry for "User Option" says that it is a face or a variable. There was at least one general discussion about such terminology in emacs-devel a number of years back (I don't have a reference, sorry). In that discussion I argued that we should have both: 1. A term for all such user settings. I proposed "preference" or even "setting". 2. A term for just user variables, custom variables, or what is most commonly called "option" by Emacs. A face setting is just as optional as an "option" setting - on that I agree. "Option" isn't the best possible term for a customizable variable (but at least it's short, unlike "customizable variable"). Something like "user variable" is also ambiguous. A name that refers to Customize in some way helps, but it can be longer than what we often want to use. I'd favor more consistent use of terminology, and a reconsideration of "option" is possible in that context. But we need a term for #2, as well as #1, and we don't really have either consistently. And then there's the weight of history, and the existence of commands etc. whose names use such terms. If there's a real attempt to fix the terminology inconsistency in the help and doc, then it might be easier to not also need to change command, other function, and variable names to reflect such a terminology fix/change. __ There are yet other kinds of user settings, which could be considered in this context, including: 1. frame parameters 2. property values on symbols (e.g. command symbols) ___ As far as this bug goes, I think that, unless we really do make the terminology consistent throughout, this bug should be fixed as requested. If we do then, at some point, update and harmonize the terminology then there might be multiple such names to change. At least this bug fix aligns this name with the rest of Customize (commands such as `customize-option'etc.). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 07 15:48:12 2021 Received: (at 23085) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Feb 2021 20:48:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48952 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l8qyY-0005G0-6p for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2021 15:48:12 -0500 Received: from mail-wm1-f48.google.com ([209.85.128.48]:53746) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l8qyH-0005CZ-JU for 23085@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2021 15:48:08 -0500 Received: by mail-wm1-f48.google.com with SMTP id j11so10983173wmi.3 for <23085@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 07 Feb 2021 12:47:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tcd-ie.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=lx9p1d4uRk/n+tmUfNu9oSJEyWi8qqWxjJK37xXMn1M=; b=k9tCgVJy3jVPkQEmaAakRmG7nzPjpL/LHH+6hYgHrKZYBGafxgIinYxEFRnOWRluAf TD/t3r6ASxsPTVQRG1RT5Sk9rZiuqLtZ1OMRms2nYBOQ3e8gWUE2XvxM/pKoxyhrPWRA PTHVlko2jiWKASI9idLi09SRCpyhxtfFb6iIg57V2CmwzqHQT69T5Bc2g8rV4nBTPxd7 6i9p5jJXjDg8a3vDf+GBhyuFGIMiZNWuU1GIagrqg8ijHqKAJKlwUYJ8ELD21VOZpopb fW7lZKLBpmpMk/uTv0YU+yLihc7VmKbRLTZHiG7Uv2jGSRoG4vM9vLArzK/GIOnvQaBq xLqg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=lx9p1d4uRk/n+tmUfNu9oSJEyWi8qqWxjJK37xXMn1M=; b=f16IE1vZv+aY0b4xoiJvTZlBASCxobalxemqvimN36Deyzl6fnBe+XDZ6XGQRLmGoc PHRE9Yu5dMnGwetPyMNoNmGjBVZh579+kaLM2qYcygZPTlXA8ZyEJhFmHN+sc4uUUuKF 2wWWSPvAxvB+NpLmotsw7EiOu8AUGwY9mPrxuH7uO4Y28kAGB3gopfyonViGzg7xu4in 13gjosS2C9Rq/wTxl6bx80W4k4o88Y0OE+GIP6iOrg54uPEBDLzhgufXTRwDnDtNw8k6 bMHAxsdKZAGkVBGWrzvUYebHFcMy6ApB115wGAj4IgdXdi+DN54LqZRUdbsWphYGQh5P bmFg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532dac5Kxqn7JiGeZDXpL+nDkEcFq9ivzxp6pVsB8CtSZgBMliTf T7T3YvKNBDNrQPl1UWJ7XHC3hQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz/INxsK6mndNyysBgCelovoZYGT0EcFHz357RWo9krFJyyFo1CugdF5Fo6NUFoUy/nEgwNMQ== X-Received: by 2002:a7b:c449:: with SMTP id l9mr11914758wmi.158.1612730867613; Sun, 07 Feb 2021 12:47:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([109.79.18.224]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u10sm16593585wmj.40.2021.02.07.12.47.46 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 07 Feb 2021 12:47:47 -0800 (PST) From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#23085: 24.5; `customized-changed-options` References: <1d396d5e-a6ea-4f44-8b14-3eeeb2bb10ae@default> <87zh0g3r9h.fsf@gnus.org> <83r1lrnbki.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2021 20:47:45 +0000 In-Reply-To: <83r1lrnbki.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 07 Feb 2021 17:26:37 +0200") Message-ID: <87zh0fzjta.fsf@tcd.ie> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23085 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 23085@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen >> Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2021 15:07:54 +0100 >> Cc: 23085@debbugs.gnu.org >> >> (customize-changed-options-previous-release): Prev release is 21.1. >> (customize-changed-options): Doc fix. >> (customize-changed): New alias. >> >> And the doc string for customize-changed-options was changed to reflect >> what it does, i.e., what you'd expect `customize-changed' to do. >> >> This is kinda backwards, so I've now flipped this, and made >> `customize-changed-options' an obsolete alias. > > I'm not sure this change is for the better: no one said that "options" > should be interpreted narrowly as referring only to variables; and > "customize-changed" is simply bad English and doesn't help > understanding what it is about. So I think Richard was right with > that change. I agree, but mostly just wanted to say that if customize-changed-options is renamed, then its occurrences in code, docstrings, and the manual should be updated, and the rename should probably be called out in NEWS. Thanks, -- Basil From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 08 01:05:43 2021 Received: (at 23085) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Feb 2021 06:05:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49367 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l8zg6-0003rv-Km for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2021 01:05:43 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:43762) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l8zg4-0003rh-Ki for 23085@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2021 01:05:41 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=u/s1W/O2ogUITRiQvlWSFC+OT7XLLz9/einKdxCbiDk=; b=uG2eoZZ6w9N/b3Ml38lOy9KpcC R/aPCYmHdLoPcCJELUqBh/B+vln6JGS6VShxca5+JmKsOOSpUvFklbIWhhGvlrUX3Cnjwp1kOaPPe 6fQsYzig/wRv8x/ee0O8OGc1D7TepsMQTlnVntsSKsFjIiw/uIR4JF7O35kd+ERMOAM4=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1l8zfr-0001Vq-V5; Mon, 08 Feb 2021 07:05:33 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#23085: 24.5; `customized-changed-options` References: <1d396d5e-a6ea-4f44-8b14-3eeeb2bb10ae@default> <87zh0g3r9h.fsf@gnus.org> <83r1lrnbki.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAD1BMVEVONSCYbDjGnVzo w4/////FvwTCAAAAAWJLR0QEj2jZUQAAAAd0SU1FB+UCCAYAF7J3omsAAAGiSURBVDjLZVSJccQw CASnAcE1YFADkdx/b1nQY/viyUQMK2BZ0BEVFilMhEP8VJ8ficE2YOkylfmR93pdHS4cMD4Bi7CQ WlzMv4ywvM8WuWl+UWwYhcKJC2XW6CNVFk+EVvG2WF0ZiWoohdo3kBGUxYNVUgijXkR3aUWkScao b/dgER0E40E1RJH4N5gISnvP2xytzVtxSWcNlkhbdjWU0Wt3KshII1sWG3cKF9YQcZCRHc1O2Yav CBoG1xp9X2e1slOFVa/0A0gKyZ6Q9cCcEmg+IrIn/6UDU+w5wAkEf5JPCaB5qzHx1YiTSzuq1waF VA6jHQFJDzuPBrsaPwDSzn6yCYosgHJ9xFhDEhCzpUTSdWG3GFMFUGjTZTlZ4wAVWxotEcVKyvDw L9Ei12MgW3Z9eOfsbxYPQNdewXwBsVvLLnu1ie9NjLXiaRWI/QAADQFZ2N8A1MzHIpD6DaDgSXvZ b+Do8RTjNX4BKrnNRnn4TVJyIR/HluENLPY8gTzs1gp+15kcB5jrouTz/X/R/fF/3+oaSSLRNyDx o2Mx9o39AQbITJimC/42AAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIxLTAyLTA4VDA2OjAwOjIzKzAw OjAwzztZsQAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMS0wMi0wOFQwNjowMDoyMyswMDowML5m4Q0A AAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Bob Dylan's _Blonde On Blonde_: "I Want You" Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2021 07:05:26 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83r1lrnbki.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 07 Feb 2021 17:26:37 +0200") Message-ID: <87pn1bnlg9.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > I'm not sure this change is for the better: no one said that "options" > should be interpreted narrowly as referring only to variables; and > "customize-changed" is simply bad English and doesn't he [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23085 Cc: 23085@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > I'm not sure this change is for the better: no one said that "options" > should be interpreted narrowly as referring only to variables; and > "customize-changed" is simply bad English and doesn't help > understanding what it is about. So I think Richard was right with > that change. Richard added the (perhaps oddly named) `customize-changed' alias, though. I have no strong opinions about this, but we do usually refer to defcustom'd variables as "user options", so it doesn't seem unreasonable for a user to expect that `customize-changed-options' will list only "user options" -- that seems like a natural expectation in this context, even if "options" has a wider meaning outside a Customize context. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 08 01:10:19 2021 Received: (at 23085) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Feb 2021 06:10:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49371 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l8zkY-00044h-1Q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2021 01:10:19 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:43794) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l8zkW-00044S-FT for 23085@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2021 01:10:17 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=a66Y3YLIMxscGtObgacIVGhH4olH6lafOQTr3zahDiU=; b=qQ74dLJOrdodD6s11fnTevY5mg 1ivMQaEXo1m3EWJuIdY7yWAlAnZuLo4o6SQdO1wYgfgWIbq9vQQD90O3uPkMWOIJorw5SBNe87oZa Y+rObdHLJ2JNAXlHvznWhSOU45s7nc2mmEc/H8qhjrxXpEN4Z+IsZc9SuZodp+hkOGMU=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1l8zkK-0001am-OG; Mon, 08 Feb 2021 07:10:10 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: "Basil L. Contovounesios" Subject: Re: bug#23085: 24.5; `customized-changed-options` References: <1d396d5e-a6ea-4f44-8b14-3eeeb2bb10ae@default> <87zh0g3r9h.fsf@gnus.org> <83r1lrnbki.fsf@gnu.org> <87zh0fzjta.fsf@tcd.ie> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAD1BMVEVONSCYbDjGnVzo w4/////FvwTCAAAAAWJLR0QEj2jZUQAAAAd0SU1FB+UCCAYAF7J3omsAAAGiSURBVDjLZVSJccQw CASnAcE1YFADkdx/b1nQY/viyUQMK2BZ0BEVFilMhEP8VJ8ficE2YOkylfmR93pdHS4cMD4Bi7CQ WlzMv4ywvM8WuWl+UWwYhcKJC2XW6CNVFk+EVvG2WF0ZiWoohdo3kBGUxYNVUgijXkR3aUWkScao b/dgER0E40E1RJH4N5gISnvP2xytzVtxSWcNlkhbdjWU0Wt3KshII1sWG3cKF9YQcZCRHc1O2Yav CBoG1xp9X2e1slOFVa/0A0gKyZ6Q9cCcEmg+IrIn/6UDU+w5wAkEf5JPCaB5qzHx1YiTSzuq1waF VA6jHQFJDzuPBrsaPwDSzn6yCYosgHJ9xFhDEhCzpUTSdWG3GFMFUGjTZTlZ4wAVWxotEcVKyvDw L9Ei12MgW3Z9eOfsbxYPQNdewXwBsVvLLnu1ie9NjLXiaRWI/QAADQFZ2N8A1MzHIpD6DaDgSXvZ b+Do8RTjNX4BKrnNRnn4TVJyIR/HluENLPY8gTzs1gp+15kcB5jrouTz/X/R/fF/3+oaSSLRNyDx o2Mx9o39AQbITJimC/42AAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIxLTAyLTA4VDA2OjAwOjIzKzAw OjAwzztZsQAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMS0wMi0wOFQwNjowMDoyMyswMDowML5m4Q0A AAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Bob Dylan's _Blonde On Blonde_: "Stuck Inside Of Mobile With The Memphis Blues Again" Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2021 07:10:03 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87zh0fzjta.fsf@tcd.ie> (Basil L. Contovounesios's message of "Sun, 07 Feb 2021 20:47:45 +0000") Message-ID: <87lfbznl8k.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: "Basil L. Contovounesios" writes: > I agree, but mostly just wanted to say that if customize-changed-options > is renamed, then its occurrences in code, docstrings, and the manual > should be updated, and the rename should probably be [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23085 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 23085@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) "Basil L. Contovounesios" writes: > I agree, but mostly just wanted to say that if customize-changed-options > is renamed, then its occurrences in code, docstrings, and the manual > should be updated, and the rename should probably be called out in NEWS. Definitely; I plumb forgot. (But Eli seems to think the change should be reverted (and I have no strong opinion one way or another, so we'll go with whatever he wants here, and I'm not doing so right now until that's clarified.) But this bit in the manual should be fixed in any case: ----- @item M-x customize-changed @key{RET} @var{version} @key{RET} Set up a customization buffer with all the settings and groups whose meaning has changed since Emacs version @var{version}. @item M-x customize-changed-options @key{RET} @var{version} @key{RET} Set up a customization buffer with all the options whose meaning or default values have changed since Emacs version @var{version}. ----- Which is wrong in any case, since they are aliases of each other. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 08 10:15:01 2021 Received: (at 23085) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Feb 2021 15:15:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51681 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l98Fh-0001np-Dp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2021 10:15:01 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49040) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l98Ff-0001nP-4k for 23085@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2021 10:14:59 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:51721) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l98FZ-0007Rc-Gi; Mon, 08 Feb 2021 10:14:53 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:4968 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1l98FX-0003N6-UE; Mon, 08 Feb 2021 10:14:53 -0500 Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2021 17:15:05 +0200 Message-Id: <83h7mmlhfq.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87lfbznl8k.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Mon, 08 Feb 2021 07:10:03 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#23085: 24.5; `customized-changed-options` References: <1d396d5e-a6ea-4f44-8b14-3eeeb2bb10ae@default> <87zh0g3r9h.fsf@gnus.org> <83r1lrnbki.fsf@gnu.org> <87zh0fzjta.fsf@tcd.ie> <87lfbznl8k.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23085 Cc: contovob@tcd.ie, 23085@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 23085@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2021 07:10:03 +0100 > > "Basil L. Contovounesios" writes: > > > I agree, but mostly just wanted to say that if customize-changed-options > > is renamed, then its occurrences in code, docstrings, and the manual > > should be updated, and the rename should probably be called out in NEWS. > > Definitely; I plumb forgot. (But Eli seems to think the change should > be reverted No, ignore me on that one: I thought the change was in the opposite direction. > ----- > @item M-x customize-changed @key{RET} @var{version} @key{RET} > Set up a customization buffer with all the settings and groups > whose meaning has changed since Emacs version @var{version}. > > @item M-x customize-changed-options @key{RET} @var{version} @key{RET} > Set up a customization buffer with all the options whose meaning or > default values have changed since Emacs version @var{version}. > ----- > > Which is wrong in any case, since they are aliases of each other. Right. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 09 02:20:49 2021 Received: (at 23085) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Feb 2021 07:20:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52430 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l9NKK-0008Bo-OW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2021 02:20:48 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:55446) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l9NKI-0008Bb-Rl for 23085@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2021 02:20:47 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=ftVWPX0pxPuaC3kyJj5pWOY17LTybT2V71ZD3pa55l8=; b=MkNAcJY4uYCvmWYMrBw3IFERjh l8c8/b/E1lbThnR9ww5D/sXtsBAWEQ+Y/wFJBCBUMVFUcbzlNZt8mR1ItW0O+G4uwT6+14kAazoFu D1Ys+UjUXEdydKTmSVwxGvGd2Igk2O8r7Hgx4+UwPcDIf32gN1Z/PGh4TYM5ldsp5lEc=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1l9NK8-0008Gv-3P; Tue, 09 Feb 2021 08:20:40 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#23085: 24.5; `customized-changed-options` References: <1d396d5e-a6ea-4f44-8b14-3eeeb2bb10ae@default> <87zh0g3r9h.fsf@gnus.org> <83r1lrnbki.fsf@gnu.org> <87zh0fzjta.fsf@tcd.ie> <87lfbznl8k.fsf@gnus.org> <83h7mmlhfq.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAGFBMVEXs1Jr967DQvo6s kVWUbjdeQC9VOSz///9RMRGeAAAAAWJLR0QHFmGI6wAAAAd0SU1FB+UCCQcMFD61sY8AAAGKSURB VDjLlZNdbsIwDMdd4AApvUBp0Z6hzfaMGsPzpNU9wCC5/xFmJ03aaCBtllBj//A/H7ahKJ8bvATl H0HxChxyoJLf5aCKQJkc6Aj2eF6DCiOojFmDo47/22l9WsAek4DWOGcL2CEOsxJiXENwZ+UNtEyK lVTSKqMWBMcMEVRrsEVcDozYQFtrkGdTsqUKV9+iIXbHcPOjT1FN0105xoAQ0jGNRrqONOKVkIg8 gCN75GikYPKFbmiRY7PFxUSw+NNEZOVjJeDBxMA650hi5IRa8AtnJzcxkZ+NQJzZbACc7x7gMhvd ZN39Y+zrX+DmdP1m+Qp5eOxvtii33CvwCLEba/TosDUn/7AKPv2Gd87/llLGWpbwZfv3x6E7lfy6 SqdalqBqrmAsxqowMgYVDnBIhb0s7eMffWmTIgERmF1JOYcuUb6vEqiiluyxBiqBfA/ROicQj1+E tl56t1TtquFMNmqcL/0l4JIBzu+bru+LNHUzYKVGjJ88H87U7GnQA9jkwQU8sf+DH89Hr7OqjPml AAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIxLTAyLTA5VDA3OjEyOjIwKzAwOjAwSFYExQAAACV0RVh0 ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMS0wMi0wOVQwNzoxMjoyMCswMDowMDkLvHkAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Masada's _Alef_: "Zelah" Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2021 08:20:34 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83h7mmlhfq.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 08 Feb 2021 17:15:05 +0200") Message-ID: <87eehplnb1.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Definitely; I plumb forgot. (But Eli seems to think the change should >> be reverted > > No, ignore me on that one: I thought the change was in the opposite > direction. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23085 Cc: contovob@tcd.ie, 23085@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Definitely; I plumb forgot. (But Eli seems to think the change should >> be reverted > > No, ignore me on that one: I thought the change was in the opposite > direction. OK, I've now finished up the change. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From unknown Mon Aug 18 11:07:33 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2021 12:24:09 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator