From unknown Tue Aug 19 10:03:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#23067: 25.0.92; A detail in the doc of query-replace Resent-From: Michael Heerdegen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 02:03:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 23067 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 23067@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.14584393359357 (code B ref -1); Sun, 20 Mar 2016 02:03:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Mar 2016 02:02:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54051 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ahSh4-0002Qp-Mq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Mar 2016 22:02:14 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:55927) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ahSh3-0002Qc-OC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Mar 2016 22:02:14 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ahSgx-0004kT-Q6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Mar 2016 22:02:08 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:48126) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ahSgx-0004kP-NN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Mar 2016 22:02:07 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46897) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ahSgw-0003Fi-RV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Mar 2016 22:02:07 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ahSgt-0004iR-M2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Mar 2016 22:02:06 -0400 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.15.3]:59184) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ahSgt-0004iN-CR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Mar 2016 22:02:03 -0400 Received: from drachen.dragon ([94.218.210.27]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb004) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MPrwQ-1alKZP1lI2-004wu4 for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 03:02:01 +0100 From: Michael Heerdegen Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 03:02:00 +0100 Message-ID: <87oaa9vrdz.fsf@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:Sk+cNu3ZT/HbbuRYT6LoKi3KkhOy3qI+Knhl9CFuI5ENPBs0wot AtPJp74tHP+veB5jua/tqW2OdNLIPd4YLb7uaKuxlewJGXrEGsUwY5LAgGUJYDq0Fdv2o6w Pdd6j80rr8Ad+n22qYheYQ3A3nccfSN59I04YNEI3GL/or86PnSdybn7S66nGIqDiEYrWRL dOlRDx6GLWh2D4LOnR8Pg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:bGO9y3fU4+8=:u08dbZICMkIUtEahbu2zUS AxQDsjtCWzaZ3dtbO/QjAFLvT/gnd9/+Rpyj5keCbl8wzM2ojiPcekouFdkGKlkgcqjpL2B4O WMiGUHgJ1whTIkUsSLEyW0bHykVKqB7zn4hnfajecDyFFEBcnCR3yWcEGjKuVcg5nK8+GjrD7 PybTzfkV5RVPHVnfDNCpPIEmOogRQrWllDCUawuvdCWqT5Fq9IeECejF5wSC/hOIHaq7cuBb/ dAp4OEOBlwnvxbIFXc0B9YVoiklIsyINkaLrxq8PAPq5iHiwATgNBhW9gR32lKPgZD07mD5lS TqfdWvBbN/TAfqUAUJxwwA2XYkXrnBHNRQoN8ToF1rOKUf2gbey+w32oNWsprO2MntR80p7H5 1ANMBUf6AODS+UzE8mDLx8093B6h8/YwFC5M9D/SmFDVtURF88C2z6PeEmnA6mid7KZ45Y6HT 4XG5vlcd5ddwtxMHMZAcdOTdWi4XDsgf52uol7TlrJjs+X3vBDEItNS7MwzZCiafjWtvQcmHE t0tMeoLLAny3gVKMsDjddhOQH+r/A89yDZAAsz2XSt6Q0I95mmjCHRBujOnFw+yui6FZTsbtk NYaZURtkkdS+llckKnIx/Cwfna635QinJAmTG+pC1O80M/prExHPJ/ZBg5RjfOT0COTE74lWP k2F84DgHR9TJIg3RIzvg2Nkb3m7ONfL5qG8S79HInlpHLK5C2RfIUZv0ZWJrhAeLEOCmCNCXb xin6gion4UjsHs5A1+VQ8zlFqIUQ6dPVQxBiWqXqNnDolGFfxeKsCYdApTkjuFXT14Zk860/A SyLqgtm X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.1 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.1 (----) Hello, "In Transient Mark mode, if the mark is active, operate on the contents of the region. Otherwise, operate from point to the end of the buffer." I think the second sentence is confusing (wrong). The command operates up to `point-max'. Thanks, Michael. In GNU Emacs 25.0.92.8 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.18.9) of 2016-03-19 built on drachen Repository revision: 9ab03f27fad7b1ae68dda7a2effd075658dcf184 Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11802000 System Description: Debian GNU/Linux testing (stretch) From unknown Tue Aug 19 10:03:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#23067: 25.0.92; A detail in the doc of query-replace Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 02:15:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 23067 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Michael Heerdegen , 23067@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 23067-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B23067.145844005110351 (code B ref 23067); Sun, 20 Mar 2016 02:15:02 +0000 Received: (at 23067) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Mar 2016 02:14:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54057 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ahSsc-0002gt-Sb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Mar 2016 22:14:11 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:32191) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ahSsb-0002gg-8V for 23067@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Mar 2016 22:14:09 -0400 Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u2K2E2RK004366 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 20 Mar 2016 02:14:03 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u2K2E2bF025977 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 20 Mar 2016 02:14:02 GMT Received: from abhmp0015.oracle.com (abhmp0015.oracle.com [141.146.116.21]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u2K2E13B027352; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 02:14:02 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 19:14:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams References: <87oaa9vrdz.fsf@web.de> In-Reply-To: <87oaa9vrdz.fsf@web.de> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6744.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > "In Transient Mark mode, if the mark is active, operate on the contents > of the region. Otherwise, operate from point to the end of the buffer." >=20 > I think the second sentence is confusing (wrong). The command operates > up to `point-max'. +1. End of the buffer or its restriction, i.e., point-max. From unknown Tue Aug 19 10:03:23 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Michael Heerdegen Subject: bug#23067: closed (Re: bug#23067: 25.0.92; A detail in the doc of query-replace) Message-ID: References: <83k2kq27j0.fsf@gnu.org> <87oaa9vrdz.fsf@web.de> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 23067 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 23067@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 10:10:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1458900602-14763-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1458900602-14763-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #23067: 25.0.92; A detail in the doc of query-replace which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 23067@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 23067: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D23067 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1458900602-14763-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 23067-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Mar 2016 10:09:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36895 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ajOgn-0003po-Qb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Mar 2016 06:09:57 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:60709) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ajOgm-0003pb-9R for 23067-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Mar 2016 06:09:56 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ajOgc-0002cZ-UW for 23067-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Mar 2016 06:09:50 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:45864) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ajOgc-0002cV-RN; Fri, 25 Mar 2016 06:09:46 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4702 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ajOgc-0002UQ-5x; Fri, 25 Mar 2016 06:09:46 -0400 Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 13:09:39 +0300 Message-Id: <83k2kq27j0.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Michael Heerdegen In-reply-to: <87oaa9vrdz.fsf@web.de> (message from Michael Heerdegen on Sun, 20 Mar 2016 03:02:00 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#23067: 25.0.92; A detail in the doc of query-replace References: <87oaa9vrdz.fsf@web.de> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 23067-done Cc: 23067-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > From: Michael Heerdegen > Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 03:02:00 +0100 > > "In Transient Mark mode, if the mark is active, operate on the contents > of the region. Otherwise, operate from point to the end of the buffer." > > I think the second sentence is confusing (wrong). The command operates > up to `point-max'. Thanks. I fixed the doc string of this function (and of a few others in the same file). However, I must say that it makes very little sense to me to make such corrections only in a couple of functions, when we have gobs of them with the same problem in the doc strings, so much so that I wonder whether "end of buffer" isn't already a widely accepted synonym of "end of the buffer's accessible portion", and we shouldn't bother, certainly not with fixing that one function at a time. I won't be surprised if the same issue has crept in the manuals as well. Please, let's not start another prolonged dispute that leads nowhere. Instead, if someone really thinks this stuff should be spelled out in documentation, that someone is kindly requested to submit a patch that fixes _all_ of the instances where we don't say that explicitly. TIA. ------------=_1458900602-14763-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Mar 2016 02:02:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54051 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ahSh4-0002Qp-Mq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Mar 2016 22:02:14 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:55927) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ahSh3-0002Qc-OC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Mar 2016 22:02:14 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ahSgx-0004kT-Q6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Mar 2016 22:02:08 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:48126) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ahSgx-0004kP-NN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Mar 2016 22:02:07 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46897) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ahSgw-0003Fi-RV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Mar 2016 22:02:07 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ahSgt-0004iR-M2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Mar 2016 22:02:06 -0400 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.15.3]:59184) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ahSgt-0004iN-CR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Mar 2016 22:02:03 -0400 Received: from drachen.dragon ([94.218.210.27]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb004) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MPrwQ-1alKZP1lI2-004wu4 for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 03:02:01 +0100 From: Michael Heerdegen To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 25.0.92; A detail in the doc of query-replace Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 03:02:00 +0100 Message-ID: <87oaa9vrdz.fsf@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:Sk+cNu3ZT/HbbuRYT6LoKi3KkhOy3qI+Knhl9CFuI5ENPBs0wot AtPJp74tHP+veB5jua/tqW2OdNLIPd4YLb7uaKuxlewJGXrEGsUwY5LAgGUJYDq0Fdv2o6w Pdd6j80rr8Ad+n22qYheYQ3A3nccfSN59I04YNEI3GL/or86PnSdybn7S66nGIqDiEYrWRL dOlRDx6GLWh2D4LOnR8Pg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:bGO9y3fU4+8=:u08dbZICMkIUtEahbu2zUS AxQDsjtCWzaZ3dtbO/QjAFLvT/gnd9/+Rpyj5keCbl8wzM2ojiPcekouFdkGKlkgcqjpL2B4O WMiGUHgJ1whTIkUsSLEyW0bHykVKqB7zn4hnfajecDyFFEBcnCR3yWcEGjKuVcg5nK8+GjrD7 PybTzfkV5RVPHVnfDNCpPIEmOogRQrWllDCUawuvdCWqT5Fq9IeECejF5wSC/hOIHaq7cuBb/ dAp4OEOBlwnvxbIFXc0B9YVoiklIsyINkaLrxq8PAPq5iHiwATgNBhW9gR32lKPgZD07mD5lS TqfdWvBbN/TAfqUAUJxwwA2XYkXrnBHNRQoN8ToF1rOKUf2gbey+w32oNWsprO2MntR80p7H5 1ANMBUf6AODS+UzE8mDLx8093B6h8/YwFC5M9D/SmFDVtURF88C2z6PeEmnA6mid7KZ45Y6HT 4XG5vlcd5ddwtxMHMZAcdOTdWi4XDsgf52uol7TlrJjs+X3vBDEItNS7MwzZCiafjWtvQcmHE t0tMeoLLAny3gVKMsDjddhOQH+r/A89yDZAAsz2XSt6Q0I95mmjCHRBujOnFw+yui6FZTsbtk NYaZURtkkdS+llckKnIx/Cwfna635QinJAmTG+pC1O80M/prExHPJ/ZBg5RjfOT0COTE74lWP k2F84DgHR9TJIg3RIzvg2Nkb3m7ONfL5qG8S79HInlpHLK5C2RfIUZv0ZWJrhAeLEOCmCNCXb xin6gion4UjsHs5A1+VQ8zlFqIUQ6dPVQxBiWqXqNnDolGFfxeKsCYdApTkjuFXT14Zk860/A SyLqgtm X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.1 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.1 (----) Hello, "In Transient Mark mode, if the mark is active, operate on the contents of the region. Otherwise, operate from point to the end of the buffer." I think the second sentence is confusing (wrong). The command operates up to `point-max'. Thanks, Michael. In GNU Emacs 25.0.92.8 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.18.9) of 2016-03-19 built on drachen Repository revision: 9ab03f27fad7b1ae68dda7a2effd075658dcf184 Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11802000 System Description: Debian GNU/Linux testing (stretch) ------------=_1458900602-14763-1-- From unknown Tue Aug 19 10:03:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#23067: 25.0.92; A detail in the doc of query-replace Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 14:15:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 23067 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii , Michael Heerdegen Cc: 23067-done@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 23067-done@debbugs.gnu.org id=D23067.145891524513164 (code D ref 23067); Fri, 25 Mar 2016 14:15:01 +0000 Received: (at 23067-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Mar 2016 14:14:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37952 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ajSV2-0003QG-Ul for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Mar 2016 10:14:05 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:26136) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ajSV1-0003PH-3G for 23067-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Mar 2016 10:14:03 -0400 Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u2PEDunW016141 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 25 Mar 2016 14:13:57 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u2PEDuTY017050 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 25 Mar 2016 14:13:56 GMT Received: from abhmp0006.oracle.com (abhmp0006.oracle.com [141.146.116.12]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u2PEDrth027033; Fri, 25 Mar 2016 14:13:55 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <42d06a78-824b-4661-aa84-845def8ca855@default> Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 07:13:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams References: <<87oaa9vrdz.fsf@web.de>> <<83k2kq27j0.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83k2kq27j0.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6744.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > "In Transient Mark mode, if the mark is active, operate on the contents > > of the region. Otherwise, operate from point to the end of the buffer.= " > > > > I think the second sentence is confusing (wrong). The command operates > > up to `point-max'. >=20 > Thanks. I fixed the doc string of this function (and of a few others > in the same file). >=20 > However, I must say that it makes very little sense to me to make such > corrections only in a couple of functions, when we have gobs of them > with the same problem in the doc strings, so much so that I wonder > whether "end of buffer" isn't already a widely accepted synonym of > "end of the buffer's accessible portion", and we shouldn't bother, > certainly not with fixing that one function at a time. I won't be > surprised if the same issue has crept in the manuals as well. >=20 > Please, let's not start another prolonged dispute that leads nowhere. > Instead, if someone really thinks this stuff should be spelled out in > documentation, that someone is kindly requested to submit a patch that > fixes _all_ of the instances where we don't say that explicitly. TIA. There's another way to look at this that occurs to me. It is also perhaps not without some ambiguity, but it might nevertheless help. "End of buffer" can be regarded as `point-max'. This is what we say in the doc string of the predicate (`eobp') that determines (tests for) end-of-buffer-ness: Return t if point is at the end of the buffer. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If the buffer is narrowed, this means the end of the narrowed part. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Notice too that even though this is a predicate for Lisp, and you would expect its doc to be aimed at Lisp programmers and not just non-Lisper users, it does not mention `point-max'. Again, yes, there is some perhaps inherent ambiguity in using the term "end of the buffer" this way. But it might help, in general. From unknown Tue Aug 19 10:03:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#23067: 25.0.92; A detail in the doc of query-replace Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 14:25:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 23067 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, 23067@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 23067-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B23067.145891586520456 (code B ref 23067); Fri, 25 Mar 2016 14:25:02 +0000 Received: (at 23067) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Mar 2016 14:24:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37966 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ajSf3-0005Js-IA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Mar 2016 10:24:25 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:55934) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ajSf1-0005Jf-SI for 23067@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Mar 2016 10:24:24 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ajSes-0002p3-Sg for 23067@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Mar 2016 10:24:18 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:57138) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ajSes-0002oz-P4; Fri, 25 Mar 2016 10:24:14 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4877 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ajSer-0008L0-Sc; Fri, 25 Mar 2016 10:24:14 -0400 Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 17:23:59 +0300 Message-Id: <837fgq1vr4.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <42d06a78-824b-4661-aa84-845def8ca855@default> (message from Drew Adams on Fri, 25 Mar 2016 07:13:48 -0700 (PDT)) References: <<87oaa9vrdz.fsf@web.de>> <<83k2kq27j0.fsf@gnu.org>> <42d06a78-824b-4661-aa84-845def8ca855@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 07:13:48 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 23067-done@debbugs.gnu.org > > > However, I must say that it makes very little sense to me to make such > > corrections only in a couple of functions, when we have gobs of them > > with the same problem in the doc strings, so much so that I wonder > > whether "end of buffer" isn't already a widely accepted synonym of > > "end of the buffer's accessible portion", and we shouldn't bother, > > certainly not with fixing that one function at a time. I won't be > > surprised if the same issue has crept in the manuals as well. > > > > Please, let's not start another prolonged dispute that leads nowhere. > > Instead, if someone really thinks this stuff should be spelled out in > > documentation, that someone is kindly requested to submit a patch that > > fixes _all_ of the instances where we don't say that explicitly. TIA. > > There's another way to look at this that occurs to me. It is also > perhaps not without some ambiguity, but it might nevertheless help. > > "End of buffer" can be regarded as `point-max'. What do you mean "can be"? I was saying that it already is regarded as such. > This is what we say in the doc string of the predicate (`eobp') that > determines (tests for) end-of-buffer-ness: > > Return t if point is at the end of the buffer. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > If the buffer is narrowed, this means the end of the narrowed part. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Are you saying we should change all the similar doc strings to say the same? If so, how is this different from what I said above, about the need to change all of them? From unknown Tue Aug 19 10:03:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#23067: 25.0.92; A detail in the doc of query-replace Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 14:43:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 23067 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, 23067@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 23067-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B23067.145891692822016 (code B ref 23067); Fri, 25 Mar 2016 14:43:02 +0000 Received: (at 23067) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Mar 2016 14:42:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37972 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ajSwC-0005j2-4Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Mar 2016 10:42:08 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:40441) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ajSwA-0005iX-WB for 23067@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Mar 2016 10:42:07 -0400 Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u2PEg0AA016756 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 25 Mar 2016 14:42:01 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u2PEg0qU018745 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 25 Mar 2016 14:42:00 GMT Received: from abhmp0017.oracle.com (abhmp0017.oracle.com [141.146.116.23]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u2PEfx3L001798; Fri, 25 Mar 2016 14:41:59 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 07:41:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams References: <<<87oaa9vrdz.fsf@web.de>>> <<<83k2kq27j0.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<42d06a78-824b-4661-aa84-845def8ca855@default>> <<837fgq1vr4.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<837fgq1vr4.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6744.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > > However, I must say that it makes very little sense to me to make suc= h > > > corrections only in a couple of functions, when we have gobs of them > > > with the same problem in the doc strings, so much so that I wonder > > > whether "end of buffer" isn't already a widely accepted synonym of > > > "end of the buffer's accessible portion", and we shouldn't bother, > > > certainly not with fixing that one function at a time. I won't be > > > surprised if the same issue has crept in the manuals as well. > > > > > > Please, let's not start another prolonged dispute that leads nowhere. > > > Instead, if someone really thinks this stuff should be spelled out in > > > documentation, that someone is kindly requested to submit a patch tha= t > > > fixes _all_ of the instances where we don't say that explicitly. TIA= . > > > > There's another way to look at this that occurs to me. It is also > > perhaps not without some ambiguity, but it might nevertheless help. > > > > "End of buffer" can be regarded as `point-max'. >=20 > What do you mean "can be"? I was saying that it already is regarded > as such. OK, "is", then. I wrote "can be" because I think it can also be regarded as the end of the buffer without regard to any possible restriction. I thought the point of this bug report was to distiguish end of buffer in this sense from last buffer position without regard to restriction. If "end of buffer" is always understood as `point-max' then the missing term is for the latter - the end of the buffer when any restriction is ignored. > > This is what we say in the doc string of the predicate (`eobp') that > > determines (tests for) end-of-buffer-ness: > > > > Return t if point is at the end of the buffer. > > If the buffer is narrowed, this means the end of the narrowed part. >=20 > Are you saying we should change all the similar doc strings to say the > same? If so, how is this different from what I said above, about the > need to change all of them? I'm not saying we should change all of anything. I'm simply pointing out that "end of buffer" really does sometimes (you might say always) mean `point-max' - in particular, it does for the description of `eobp'. So changing "end of buffer" to text that says `point-max' should not be necessary, if we are clear that "end of buffer" means `point-max'. But in that case, we will sometimes want to refer to the end of the buffer without restriction. AFAIK, we don't have a short name for that. And I believe we do sometimes say something like "the end of the buffer, or the end of its accessible portion if it is narrowed". If we do say things like that then that gives credence to an impression that "end of buffer" might not always mean `point-max' (otherwise, we would not contrast it with a description of the buffer end when there is a restriction). From unknown Tue Aug 19 10:03:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#23067: 25.0.92; A detail in the doc of query-replace Resent-From: Michael Heerdegen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 15:56:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 23067 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 23067@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 23067-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B23067.145892134428900 (code B ref 23067); Fri, 25 Mar 2016 15:56:01 +0000 Received: (at 23067) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Mar 2016 15:55:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37994 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ajU5P-0007W4-PY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Mar 2016 11:55:43 -0400 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.17.11]:53611) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ajU5N-0007Vo-Ff for 23067@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Mar 2016 11:55:41 -0400 Received: from drachen.dragon ([94.218.210.27]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb102) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MbhRh-1aQR670dNN-00J3Kq; Fri, 25 Mar 2016 16:55:30 +0100 From: Michael Heerdegen References: <87oaa9vrdz.fsf@web.de>>> <83k2kq27j0.fsf@gnu.org>>> <42d06a78-824b-4661-aa84-845def8ca855@default>> <837fgq1vr4.fsf@gnu.org>> Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 16:55:27 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 25 Mar 2016 07:41:58 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <87io0ay2kw.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:TPdCvXPpMdNpneX2v/3t6c+be0Hd4d0bLNVzoQlsS7nYsPcBoHE rdZiJbtjZzQ7U0+NkX8OZEFxAKmmKjld+6G5/IalTNH5gfxrYsjxkd+Y0+6tQeBALIf37Wb wLTc3yv2mWtxBhmsmV/VYWDr1r/fDLzwKYWtt/kga23cB08Rth/dnw9Yv1rndytWk8wWLgj SI9qEDGa7MTF1Gbjwf+3A== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:2Uvc8RsZ7Jw=:kUJdCehGkCk5TgygdLqnHL riFJFc+85+yKm7TH+GsPW5PnAAGt2peS1fdhAuDoBUoFfSsbeWnfVgeZZKfFeskM/e+QG28yj JvjnT0goNthe06T8kPaYa+q3g92qXgNZki7frm2YdM4TrFYa/29gtEykcB9ES3vja3k1tjx7Y zicaA749vvN9ItKoBQilBPdm7ge6wqdv1308kfmU7z8dH3Ic/tsaBcQgXKG8Wjc1FdY9AfH1Y tRwk28YBfWUAwDtgZ5jXeo49RABg9qzwjVQaGij82JPUAsmx1/A6yALGFxgsh1vUFoWVyHsH1 XaiyGq1e4kVEayhW1bFGht8lVWYB3P8wmYPqca08Py7Lh0ayxnlwFai86BeGGGBhbKWBD0ixm 3ZHYJdVB8VCQjx5YYhX1grV378pmHotemKL10mdmsnESioBOpW8yZ3UPVs4cw2nM1Nj+Gg42r VdAfgSDeSb+SG0ikdT3FQPzPwOHN0FK5vEAGeibBrHRz6wlJEwyVqHASzURd1ANCCTjoQ7SkG Wvcl3VLL9+g5c8x9gRLDBGtFRSqooUbrGya4l3yL9E7npwO7FXSwNL5njc9FybRLQtMuxm2IW CxBjUUA+9xQutKQImnVsI+VnsJ2ZD8oUlDdZmx1KwzDnHh+gUVq28uhBzndP+hSTHCAKo/ano BhUHnMptcuc8Gpz3VbtJlTb/C8dKpNaZwKZ1lOMT0ZNOBQdR4iADdVVnAy1eZudHQvLk9ZUBB jkyeRghckulBvz39/CHvcLHgQqyKu62UPABV/5k3tsVBZ8aRLIdbnP4d7IUrQulFNycZIXLWg wFYVuJ2 X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Drew Adams writes: > If we do say things like that then that gives credence to an > impression that "end of buffer" might not always mean `point-max' > (otherwise, we would not contrast it with a description of the buffer > end when there is a restriction). I don't think that "end-of-buffer" is such a good synonym for `point-max'. But OTOH, this is consistent with widely used functions as `eobp' and `end-of-buffer'. I didn't realize this when I created this report. Since we will undoubtedly not rename these functions, it's best to leave things as they are. I still think it was not wrong to clear up things in this special case, because to the user it could have made sense that query-replace indeed would operate up to the real end of the buffer. Thanks, Michael. From unknown Tue Aug 19 10:03:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#23067: 25.0.92; A detail in the doc of query-replace Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 16:10:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 23067 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Michael Heerdegen Cc: 23067@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 23067-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B23067.14589221444063 (code B ref 23067); Fri, 25 Mar 2016 16:10:02 +0000 Received: (at 23067) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Mar 2016 16:09:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38014 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ajUIK-00013T-HB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Mar 2016 12:09:04 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:48397) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ajUIJ-000130-C9 for 23067@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Mar 2016 12:09:03 -0400 Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u2PG8vfG019539 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 25 Mar 2016 16:08:57 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u2PG8vtC032384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 25 Mar 2016 16:08:57 GMT Received: from abhmp0017.oracle.com (abhmp0017.oracle.com [141.146.116.23]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u2PG8ux8006958; Fri, 25 Mar 2016 16:08:56 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 09:08:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams References: <87oaa9vrdz.fsf@web.de>>> <83k2kq27j0.fsf@gnu.org>>> <42d06a78-824b-4661-aa84-845def8ca855@default>> <837fgq1vr4.fsf@gnu.org>> <87io0ay2kw.fsf@web.de> In-Reply-To: <87io0ay2kw.fsf@web.de> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6744.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > If we do say things like that then that gives credence to an > > impression that "end of buffer" might not always mean `point-max' > > (otherwise, we would not contrast it with a description of the buffer > > end when there is a restriction). >=20 > I don't think that "end-of-buffer" is such a good synonym for > `point-max'. >=20 > But OTOH, this is consistent with widely used functions as `eobp' and > `end-of-buffer'. I didn't realize this when I created this report. >=20 > Since we will undoubtedly not rename these functions, it's best to leave > things as they are. I still think it was not wrong to clear up things > in this special case, because to the user it could have made sense that > query-replace indeed would operate up to the real end of the buffer. I agree that our doc should be clear about which is meant. And I think we might want to come up with a term for "the real end of the buffer", as you put it, to make the distinction. I don't have a concreate suggestion at this point. Sometimes the doc refers to something like "end of the accessible portion of the buffer", but that doesn't really help, if we also expect users to understand "end of the buffer" as the same thing. It was good to raise the issue generally. Dunno what the best way to deal with it is. From unknown Tue Aug 19 10:03:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#23067: 25.0.92; A detail in the doc of query-replace Resent-From: John Wiegley Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 22:07:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 23067 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 23067@debbugs.gnu.org Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, eliz@gnu.org Received: via spool by 23067-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B23067.14590299797791 (code B ref 23067); Sat, 26 Mar 2016 22:07:02 +0000 Received: (at 23067) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Mar 2016 22:06:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38968 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ajwLb-00021b-JU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Mar 2016 18:06:19 -0400 Received: from mail-pa0-f54.google.com ([209.85.220.54]:36847) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ajwLZ-00021N-OD for 23067@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Mar 2016 18:06:18 -0400 Received: by mail-pa0-f54.google.com with SMTP id tt10so70138971pab.3 for <23067@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 26 Mar 2016 15:06:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references :user-agent:mime-version; bh=oiPNVaojJFmsy+NnGhJqdppaXRZqRUG2TemB20LzIdo=; b=VMrLydTs3SEM3JEMbR0N/uCMw8pMdluCTbxREF1hHa9ciCW86M9qJpKk/W4TiTyoIq h2WkvmaikLNDPOX8zEhFHvIGIxAwZH8fNC8PUha4AwzAhgOh2v2pLuhnzP5uBQf4SfDK KeO6pjQu+pvRWLPX91QF7NFqKCmNgIy/7j2rHb4HTEo7DEubJbtdvkTbQAb5/tdpFg7N OsZQJYFsz/969G41uY26oNvZ9QE2tr46wc7kAp1WJjUJUuFWZdZY0Zw4DN6RejAMLGEK cxhk12tKIOUvQLdCjwrSkUXKxnR1BoS0Lt+R0wsugoHVgW+cj3EU+LsyaCZw9ngwiRti jKfg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :references:user-agent:mime-version; bh=oiPNVaojJFmsy+NnGhJqdppaXRZqRUG2TemB20LzIdo=; b=kCwr12S1/FDBooV/dR0TQJp9XaI5DH8DK43JJvbYxW3JmgfWLx1vS/qS1LhVa4PxrY JU6DYcRn0PDlOl1KwAQ1K7gqd52Q1GW/1mTjS4RYCLMq7YV5aSp6I8Eh2xvkCHcH9Ljl 6OvYu94xT6axyPAxzRBCsJ39dOPI8vAQ2kgu6IlbjOGaHYEsq3nAs9YDG8Hh7xK9whT/ 40gDqyg0U3SeweiFcLhN1OJcOfSf3Jb/SKoth+4dk9sJe6LQBaLI01jD8eoSp7VV/X/R UbnlGM01jzr3j2+Z4/kx8Tkg78SGxNKALWFoUHzKddZl7Ka5CFtnyQ64Cz+w67zuSdiM EIOQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJINJQuBsqGznznhwuc4dB6nlM1v+7Y3yd9bcFugfiffecYHKAc3eGsZSXaGDatMiw== X-Received: by 10.66.190.229 with SMTP id gt5mr31547618pac.118.1459029972117; Sat, 26 Mar 2016 15:06:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Hermes.local (mail.johnwiegley.com. [208.82.103.192]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 88sm25182974pfj.20.2016.03.26.15.06.11 (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 26 Mar 2016 15:06:11 -0700 (PDT) From: John Wiegley X-Google-Original-From: "John Wiegley" Received: by Hermes.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id DE6244FB3C21; Sat, 26 Mar 2016 15:06:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83k2kq27j0.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 25 Mar 2016 13:09:39 +0300") Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 15:06:02 -0700 Message-ID: References: <87oaa9vrdz.fsf@web.de> <83k2kq27j0.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.130014 (Ma Gnus v0.14) Emacs/25.0.92 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) >>>>> Eli Zaretskii writes: > However, I must say that it makes very little sense to me to make such > corrections only in a couple of functions, when we have gobs of them with > the same problem in the doc strings, so much so that I wonder whether "end > of buffer" isn't already a widely accepted synonym of "end of the buffer's > accessible portion", and we shouldn't bother, certainly not with fixing that > one function at a time. I won't be surprised if the same issue has crept in > the manuals as well. I agree, Eli. Why I applaud the desire for correctness, if something in our documentation isn't actively producing user confusion, there is no pressing need to be pedantic. I think "End of buffer" is colloquially understood to be where M-> takes you, and I've never found myself troubled by the fact that, at times, there might be more text after that point. -- John Wiegley GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2