From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 11 10:18:32 2016 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Mar 2016 15:18:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45266 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aeOpj-00066U-Vr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 10:18:32 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:35249) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aeOpi-00066I-Je for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 10:18:30 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aeOpc-0003ia-IF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 10:18:25 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT,FREEMAIL_FROM,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:34304) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aeOpc-0003iA-FG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 10:18:24 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54432) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aeOpb-0000ZO-Ec for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 10:18:24 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aeOpW-0003f7-FM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 10:18:23 -0500 Received: from mail-io0-x236.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4001:c06::236]:35105) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aeOpW-0003f0-8S for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 10:18:18 -0500 Received: by mail-io0-x236.google.com with SMTP id g203so149258847iof.2 for ; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 07:18:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=tWy5XNgl7Ev939Eorw1rOhJwFFwChBjBkqLw5ZTqJ8A=; b=fBUNhdKa4AA5gcrpyQ6NN/D86U8eEDg7oef0sW0CcA6KbBytRQ0GkZJrsWHz80fOu8 Ki0H+5rN88MQs6alYXm9Adu7CIXeW5OwcO/Rt48vCRfa9Oba0ZBPSXzFWLnScPUb6DcC DOXxqnUxlY1LCer/VnowZh34LPki5g6/5VbT/ydd/fOlL8L/MBvryHtlwWRWII2aLEg9 a9mN8dusEvPlY/uYRo9kjoQaZ5yCM5egeNv00+JquBb6jrSbC2hQON60p0J5BPCuquAH xQLkb5OMLqp6qCM354H2Tgm3lzH6bBzYaAONLvoaCLVq8rBH9Qq0Y9svyZ9IE+Sh6dpO U2qA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=tWy5XNgl7Ev939Eorw1rOhJwFFwChBjBkqLw5ZTqJ8A=; b=V33ltx3K/O8eIwRxOSo4y1ji0LjlumP2GGpw1xgaLZuMij/aodWzLFLWaHwyP90kYf OeL5nAfbU0WprqriKr7SSb4Mx6JQjlXF0NQ7q6QwPqTLpPWdraBF8J5kjYGiYLWiwrLU JUtK43iY3a38a0B+XJs6lEZMwI6rUuNWnY1Asxx32Rc/P8BygQ57bvBGe3LKRTBtJlQA n+yqCcualUxZiliBSP1c3N5xh8F65wz4hjQJWp1SHDElQSavdBbz1ZXd0RhL1gpsEOWr mHnQaqw1Zi+RXj5iAgIHxPX3qGrkfzS3FM3Q93uSj2A7J0yo5cOb2EinRq1cC/Cfv0FL Wg/A== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJL6+RMR+ycSQwQDYEQzotjaRZXF5gPHiKD2oV5WwCqN5wt6y9X62NDh5AIDAQTq+g== X-Received: by 10.107.134.94 with SMTP id i91mr11260522iod.95.1457709497677; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 07:18:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from moondust.nodomain.none (T87D2.WPA.Dal.Ca. [134.190.135.210]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z36sm2974116ioi.42.2016.03.11.07.18.16 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 11 Mar 2016 07:18:17 -0800 (PST) From: nljlistbox2@gmail.com (N. Jackson) To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 25.0.92; Typo in etc/DEBUG Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 11:18:16 -0400 Message-ID: <87h9gd3ux3.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -3.8 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.8 (---) In line 75 of etc/DEBUG there is the following text: you can start GDB by typing "M-x GDB RET" IIUC, this should say you can start GDB by typing "M-x gdb RET" Additionally, it might be helpful if this file mentioned the "debugger" that pops up when debug-on-error is non-nil. This "debugger" doesn't seem to be a debugger at all, but just a help window with a backtrace in it. If it is a debugger, then perhaps etc/DEBUG should say how to use it, and if it isn't, then perhaps etc/DEBUG should say so? Also, can one use `M-x gdb RET' in the same instance of Emacs that one wishes to debug? I can think of good reasons why this might not work, so I almost expect that it doesn't, but, on the other hand, it would be convenient if it did work. So perhaps etc/DEBUG should explicitly say that it can or cannot be done? Thanks. N. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 11 11:00:07 2016 Received: (at 22984) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Mar 2016 16:00:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45299 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aePTy-00075h-QU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 11:00:06 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:50867) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aePTw-00073x-Tw for 22984@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 11:00:05 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aePTo-0000zv-Ls for 22984@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 10:59:59 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:48005) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aePTo-0000zr-IB; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 10:59:56 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3857 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aePTn-0002m6-Q4; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 10:59:56 -0500 Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 17:59:33 +0200 Message-Id: <838u1pj996.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: nljlistbox2@gmail.com (N. Jackson) In-reply-to: <87h9gd3ux3.fsf@gmail.com> (nljlistbox2@gmail.com) Subject: Re: bug#22984: 25.0.92; Typo in etc/DEBUG References: <87h9gd3ux3.fsf@gmail.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22984 Cc: 22984@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > From: nljlistbox2@gmail.com (N. Jackson) > Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 11:18:16 -0400 > > In line 75 of etc/DEBUG there is the following text: > > you can start GDB by typing "M-x GDB RET" > > IIUC, this should say > > you can start GDB by typing "M-x gdb RET" Thanks, fixed. > Additionally, it might be helpful if this file mentioned the "debugger" > that pops up when debug-on-error is non-nil. That's not really what that file is about. > This "debugger" doesn't seem to be a debugger at all, but just a > help window with a backtrace in it. No, it's a debugger. See the node "Debugger" in the ELisp manual, it is described there. > Also, can one use `M-x gdb RET' in the same instance of Emacs that one > wishes to debug? No, of course not. When you attach GDB to a program, GDB stops its, so Emacs will stop responding, and you will not be able to continue debugging. But you can run a second instance of the same binary, and debug the first instance from that second instance. Perhaps this is what you had in mind, and this is just a misunderstanding caused by the vague meaning of "instance"? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 11 11:40:44 2016 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Mar 2016 16:40:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45340 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aeQ7H-00083T-Sd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 11:40:44 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:35359) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aeQ7G-00083F-ET for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 11:40:42 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aeQ7A-0005pK-MV for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 11:40:37 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:48725) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aeQ7A-0005pF-Jw for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 11:40:36 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aeQ7A-0003sv-7A for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 11:40:36 -0500 Subject: control message for bug 22984 To: X-Mailer: mail (GNU Mailutils 2.99.98) Message-Id: From: Glenn Morris Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 11:40:36 -0500 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) close 22984 25.0.93 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 11 13:30:39 2016 Received: (at 22984) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Mar 2016 18:30:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45397 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aeRpf-0003uR-CZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 13:30:39 -0500 Received: from mail-io0-f176.google.com ([209.85.223.176]:32802) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aeRpd-0003uF-IM for 22984@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 13:30:37 -0500 Received: by mail-io0-f176.google.com with SMTP id n190so156317729iof.0 for <22984@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 10:30:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=3xxGy7BA44FH0WUWYid94+KYddVXykENI9N7rQ2ve7M=; b=qGpoAA3ugUnK4nIg/7+ISzjMaXIUsvmmUk/dl1Gf7FlR6I/MWnAe42pkbPmtvmKbwQ aYQUqsT+TnDFlJvofe+T5XQh+dqX0AM7VInYYz2N7X/ZcMQkI25LB9yMlMRUN+UY7zQu bPAHh65sfhn0UyKKVHv81NcgVONUNzNz2Zhhy64aagdLD5YocI4VA+tuj9hBLRwYNfKc WKfWABVbWiYtpRt4H2z2htXjcAnDkD89TM+De39fGY7Q9operzQwdK4yYm86W9N9o0Ck EjRNdA3Ee0cPM0P6I4p62qkikgMi3QsWpiY7J6pS89+AqT8JIrGTRhWSGW3tfioJNMdE DSUw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=3xxGy7BA44FH0WUWYid94+KYddVXykENI9N7rQ2ve7M=; b=XOjaroy3mYeIiMH4CjXTSewmsJMyzX879mTk6h51W79a/m7ORU4ueuBA1xNW57Eeej LDsYlW5rxSCJ/VfUsvtdSqlqkX2SRHzFlJJuNDhk+jzmH/IMMkNiRR/n0vyPc9pOIYif KikHwnV0fjGGeKdXs2RpuXRQP5Ha+2dKDlDCiBabyFUOCNZPRJMdnqQMiuUPyGqlkPDd hRsNx7RayGcRrQhU7ghO3rUOXkYVpWvKfg5Ty6bg35x+lRz5rR0v1Q2+kVUZt1zzT8GY ZXR9VPy6z+8ikTaHdIzCqQz6MK1foWy3avRZTAdGL7QEbmYDIJTF6Mxd8vJp1LBFL8Ln JDBw== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJILSDlDPxE1a4rvKNllBZekcP4pSayIO7SxPeDc0EltMHOqY6RnAV4JbC5gtrVJQg== X-Received: by 10.107.11.10 with SMTP id v10mr11990111ioi.188.1457721031618; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 10:30:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from moondust.nodomain.none (blk-30-140-134.eastlink.ca. [96.30.140.134]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z200sm3955708iod.26.2016.03.11.10.30.30 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 11 Mar 2016 10:30:30 -0800 (PST) From: nljlistbox2@gmail.com (N. Jackson) To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#22984: 25.0.92; Typo in etc/DEBUG References: <87h9gd3ux3.fsf@gmail.com> <838u1pj996.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 14:30:29 -0400 In-Reply-To: <838u1pj996.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 11 Mar 2016 17:59:33 +0200") Message-ID: <878u1o50l6.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.92 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22984 Cc: 22984@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) At 17:59 +0200 on Friday 2016-03-11, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> Additionally, it might be helpful if this file mentioned the "debugger" >> that pops up when debug-on-error is non-nil. > > That's not really what that file is about. > >> This "debugger" doesn't seem to be a debugger at all, but just a >> help window with a backtrace in it. > > No, it's a debugger. See the node "Debugger" in the ELisp manual, it > is described there. I see. Thank you. However, the file is named "DEBUG" and the title is "Debugging GNU Emacs", so it is by no means obvious that this is not the right file to look at. So perhaps the title should be something like "Debugging GNU Emacs with GDB", and perhaps it should start out by saying something along the lines of This file is about debugging Emacs with GDB. For information about the Lisp debugger and about Edebug (the source-level debugger for Emacs Lisp programs), see the node "Debugging" in the Elisp manual. >> Also, can one use `M-x gdb RET' in the same instance of Emacs that one >> wishes to debug? > > No, of course not. When you attach GDB to a program, GDB stops its, > so Emacs will stop responding, and you will not be able to continue > debugging. > > But you can run a second instance of the same binary, and debug the > first instance from that second instance. Perhaps this is what you > had in mind, and this is just a misunderstanding caused by the vague > meaning of "instance"? Hah, no. I've only ever used GDB from the command line. It seemed like an (insanely) neat trick if you could run GDB in the same instance of Emacs as one was debugging. It was my fuzzy thinking along with the following sentence that led me astray: This will suggest the default binary to debug; if you are going to start a new Emacs process, change it as needed to point to the correct binary. I think the full meaning of this sentence only becomes clear after one reads the following sentence: Alternatively, if you want to attach the debugger to an already running Emacs process... The problems with the first sentence are "you", "new", and "it". Perhaps it could be made slightly clearer? Perhaps something along the lines of: This will suggest the default binary for GDB to start; if you want GDB to start a different binary, change the suggestion as needed. Alternatively, if you want to attach GDB to an already running Emacs process... Regards, N. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 11 13:40:19 2016 Received: (at 22984) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Mar 2016 18:40:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45411 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aeRz0-00049S-SU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 13:40:19 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39033) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aeRyz-00049D-TB for 22984@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 13:40:18 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aeRyq-0000rs-M2 for 22984@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 13:40:12 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:51861) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aeRyq-0000ro-IY; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 13:40:08 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3939 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aeRyp-0003Em-Fb; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 13:40:08 -0500 Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 20:39:39 +0200 Message-Id: <83k2l8j1uc.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: nljlistbox2@gmail.com (N. Jackson) In-reply-to: <878u1o50l6.fsf@gmail.com> (nljlistbox2@gmail.com) Subject: Re: bug#22984: 25.0.92; Typo in etc/DEBUG References: <87h9gd3ux3.fsf@gmail.com> <838u1pj996.fsf@gnu.org> <878u1o50l6.fsf@gmail.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22984 Cc: 22984@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > From: nljlistbox2@gmail.com (N. Jackson) > Cc: 22984@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 14:30:29 -0400 > > This will suggest the default binary to debug; if you are going to > start a new Emacs process, change it as needed to point to the > correct binary. > > I think the full meaning of this sentence only becomes clear after one > reads the following sentence: > > Alternatively, if you want to attach the debugger to an already > running Emacs process... > > The problems with the first sentence are "you", "new", and "it". Perhaps > it could be made slightly clearer? > > Perhaps something along the lines of: > > This will suggest the default binary for GDB to start; if you want > GDB to start a different binary, change the suggestion as needed. > Alternatively, if you want to attach GDB to an already running Emacs > process... No, this is a false dichotomy. The real issue here is that, when you invoke GDB like that, the default binary it suggests is not emacs, it's something else. Try it, and you will see. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 11 14:06:49 2016 Received: (at 22984) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Mar 2016 19:06:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45420 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aeSOf-0004kA-7X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 14:06:49 -0500 Received: from mail-ig0-f172.google.com ([209.85.213.172]:33752) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aeSOd-0004jy-N8 for 22984@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 14:06:47 -0500 Received: by mail-ig0-f172.google.com with SMTP id ig19so19478565igb.0 for <22984@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 11:06:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=LGLj0SyONvRYGZoHYy9Dq8/U9LIGT8oskDa4yvG+/nw=; b=Klj043aFxjClWAL4z6RQNyjyOlyma9ST4afKMqszoIaXYjJAn3vyM328BV7yNlKEjZ 2bQGOTVL6++8L0RSfKigHYsPuTwrdPUR3FR5K5id7Zfu65KDHw3SJTWTHG5+u2BoRNDi SAi6IEF5KRI1Fi0V2skWc6zESkfrSSniKvTqXpmr1O65oOhMs0gfiIX8DnSiP8SnbXCQ nx5iIuSGhsQHJohsVtLGL6x9Mm1aHde01CXY6PtJgXep+iYeO7oY6Q3eACvjeaCeOOGH E0T4eVce8/+pRMJT1XkhSBLD9wa3xMMLHY3w4MU15tcMBJ9SPV6YCcepxlyaKuV1/l3J pYhg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=LGLj0SyONvRYGZoHYy9Dq8/U9LIGT8oskDa4yvG+/nw=; b=IX0mvNv5xPieoM5yqcLCwOEcdJZxX/83WL6DsMiCH1nAN7rL2SFHwEeh2EVF0X6De0 K/Qqu6aBzQbTsIM5AfaZETt7kBQFcx71sWyI1GtAIdZ9B5EniFzu9GAgADc0U6dFvfj1 mLdmhY1ZpdTeUD9ePcA8K5MVY3J+GEL9hRLdDcl+MiNZcYO82xI+JhdyS+TPz+6q+boQ BelQmDkbDxUL3wV0NtdDcFtVp47ZcumNO3Beb2pUmjdxHpZVlDPymQww97BnuKoiftGv 1+HrarNDki3L8Mt4B4fwJbFwDmu/hQK7RrciDdg7aF1T3M/JwGb/XO5YgV/ytn6WS7Xj ZPjA== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJILZmexdHhWFsIZi7LfqWz6qAOI4kWBagE+0wFCtavDLSAN++euiYmL7D/DMCWdGg== X-Received: by 10.50.40.36 with SMTP id u4mr5533685igk.23.1457723202392; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 11:06:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from moondust.nodomain.none (blk-30-140-134.eastlink.ca. [96.30.140.134]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id cj10sm1494841igc.2.2016.03.11.11.06.41 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 11 Mar 2016 11:06:41 -0800 (PST) From: nljlistbox2@gmail.com (N. Jackson) To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#22984: 25.0.92; Typo in etc/DEBUG References: <87h9gd3ux3.fsf@gmail.com> <838u1pj996.fsf@gnu.org> <878u1o50l6.fsf@gmail.com> <83k2l8j1uc.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 15:06:40 -0400 In-Reply-To: <83k2l8j1uc.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 11 Mar 2016 20:39:39 +0200") Message-ID: <871t7g4ywv.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.92 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22984 Cc: 22984@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) At 20:39 +0200 on Friday 2016-03-11, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> From: nljlistbox2@gmail.com (N. Jackson) >> Cc: 22984@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 14:30:29 -0400 >> >> This will suggest the default binary to debug; if you are going to >> start a new Emacs process, change it as needed to point to the >> correct binary. >> >> I think the full meaning of this sentence only becomes clear after one >> reads the following sentence: >> >> Alternatively, if you want to attach the debugger to an already >> running Emacs process... >> >> The problems with the first sentence are "you", "new", and "it". Perhaps >> it could be made slightly clearer? >> >> Perhaps something along the lines of: >> >> This will suggest the default binary for GDB to start; if you want >> GDB to start a different binary, change the suggestion as needed. >> Alternatively, if you want to attach GDB to an already running Emacs >> process... > > No, this is a false dichotomy. The real issue here is that, when you > invoke GDB like that, the default binary it suggests is not emacs, > it's something else. Try it, and you will see. Yes, when I accepted the default, (something like `prog 3' IIRC), GDB then complained that it didn't exist. Anyway, if this is not what the paragraph is trying to say, then I don't know what is intending to say, which still suggests that it could benefit from some clarification. In particular: - the noun that "it" seems to stand for is the "suggestion" but that noun never appears, so grammatically "it" must be referring to something else -- but what?; - the "you are going to start" seems wrong; won't it be GDB that will start the process?; - the "new process" in the second case suggests that there is not a new process being started in the first (default) case. I hope I'm not being too nitpicky (nor too obtuse) here. Just seems to me there is a bit of opportunity here for an improvement. Regards, N. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 11 14:42:51 2016 Received: (at 22984) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Mar 2016 19:42:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45430 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aeSxX-0005XZ-GU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 14:42:51 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:51090) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aeSxV-0005XM-Jy for 22984@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 14:42:49 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aeSxN-0001B7-9O for 22984@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 14:42:44 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:52615) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aeSxN-0001B3-62; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 14:42:41 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3973 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aeSxM-0005CD-G3; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 14:42:40 -0500 Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 21:42:09 +0200 Message-Id: <83d1r0iyy6.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: nljlistbox2@gmail.com (N. Jackson) In-reply-to: <871t7g4ywv.fsf@gmail.com> (nljlistbox2@gmail.com) Subject: Re: bug#22984: 25.0.92; Typo in etc/DEBUG References: <87h9gd3ux3.fsf@gmail.com> <838u1pj996.fsf@gnu.org> <878u1o50l6.fsf@gmail.com> <83k2l8j1uc.fsf@gnu.org> <871t7g4ywv.fsf@gmail.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22984 Cc: 22984@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > From: nljlistbox2@gmail.com (N. Jackson) > Cc: 22984@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 15:06:40 -0400 > > >> Perhaps something along the lines of: > >> > >> This will suggest the default binary for GDB to start; if you want > >> GDB to start a different binary, change the suggestion as needed. > >> Alternatively, if you want to attach GDB to an already running Emacs > >> process... > > > > No, this is a false dichotomy. The real issue here is that, when you > > invoke GDB like that, the default binary it suggests is not emacs, > > it's something else. Try it, and you will see. > > Yes, when I accepted the default, (something like `prog 3' IIRC), GDB > then complained that it didn't exist. > > Anyway, if this is not what the paragraph is trying to say, then I don't > know what is intending to say, which still suggests that it could > benefit from some clarification. > > In particular: > > - the noun that "it" seems to stand for is the "suggestion" but that > noun never appears, so grammatically "it" must be referring to something > else -- but what?; > > - the "you are going to start" seems wrong; won't it be GDB that will > start the process?; > > - the "new process" in the second case suggests that there is not a new > process being started in the first (default) case. > > I hope I'm not being too nitpicky (nor too obtuse) here. Just seems to > me there is a bit of opportunity here for an improvement. I'm not sure. How a bout if you suggest an alternative wording, perhaps it will explain better what you'd like to see there? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 11 15:13:04 2016 Received: (at 22984) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Mar 2016 20:13:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45455 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aeTQm-0006EA-5U for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 15:13:04 -0500 Received: from mail-ig0-f179.google.com ([209.85.213.179]:34856) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aeTQk-0006Dg-Uq for 22984@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 15:13:03 -0500 Received: by mail-ig0-f179.google.com with SMTP id vf5so19040915igb.0 for <22984@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 12:13:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=tMbdPwkRlb/fciGCU+jF1OxRiNgobFCxZ5ko7oFwI+4=; b=dWGjAV9OdZrmvsxFBBGHKWkzy2CnWF+RC2PyaUZFv9aM8G93H1CKsS1lXn/RjIbWj0 f5fboU551GPgoHjFJxY1RyLD/kTHJ9177QQotgBAsN53sGp/+bw+XpJ6KJSoVZpl4205 HC1gdYx1OzRuclTKrV7bPFHuDyGMeUwyb0QS9S1+27IsWA4dPf0x8i7DFgfJXUcuuRB2 5QU1e/yJrZYx0rfeKmVFxZKC4/h7L8N1lb0+rZEi2mgxHh8xOrCwMX9VzjyfA64Hq1GP 5GlqdJViprs1lFfL0jUf0++DnBVJIHMhm5/N+CVEjiwFsdZ780VPZt5qkosmIo0YPDmL YbPQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=tMbdPwkRlb/fciGCU+jF1OxRiNgobFCxZ5ko7oFwI+4=; b=FM3CoWaejZ0NiXVus66BweYsgqsOP/RDFeSNq0Z+ykPriHNgsgxwaZKm6uj+QCmk1E PLODPwuTn20UBbcrsbg6rqc0S0tyxN8HI2oEmu53MWbWakPvJL8xD168AXQtHKIeHtdc qHUEIXhHDWh/xx3a6cPjWxjtK3RQ+pXaJfz7eTssLPevjiarBb7uy2f8pYPzErztIoTL AZhVgZsVZ4iFtEcetx1gbZIrTZJ5stHAPkgoGrClVJ35H8HBaveu2NHrjdosGPrXxZx4 0KpcmKTxsE6wwjbB77bA87QkHOHa3X1L5R99ZD5QUbFCn6lt69gqVg9GKHiBv9BllrRv +a7w== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJId41ExOFlqA8PMxXYBm+UXMq+9yz/FMoJverapK4pgr+C1NLlXBwK/u/yV/EFNsA== X-Received: by 10.50.98.74 with SMTP id eg10mr6120917igb.26.1457727177155; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 12:12:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from moondust.nodomain.none (blk-30-140-134.eastlink.ca. [96.30.140.134]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b142sm4108939ioe.27.2016.03.11.12.12.55 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 11 Mar 2016 12:12:56 -0800 (PST) From: nljlistbox2@gmail.com (N. Jackson) To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#22984: 25.0.92; Typo in etc/DEBUG References: <87h9gd3ux3.fsf@gmail.com> <838u1pj996.fsf@gnu.org> <878u1o50l6.fsf@gmail.com> <83k2l8j1uc.fsf@gnu.org> <871t7g4ywv.fsf@gmail.com> <83d1r0iyy6.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 16:12:55 -0400 In-Reply-To: <83d1r0iyy6.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 11 Mar 2016 21:42:09 +0200") Message-ID: <87oaakeptk.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.92 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22984 Cc: 22984@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) At 21:42 +0200 on Friday 2016-03-11, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > I'm not sure. How a bout if you suggest an alternative wording, > perhaps it will explain better what you'd like to see there? The current text for the paragraph is this: We recommend using the GUI front-end for GDB provided by Emacs. With it, you can start GDB by typing "M-x gdb RET". This will suggest the default binary to debug; if you are going to start a new Emacs process, change it as needed to point to the correct binary. Alternatively, if you want to attach the debugger to an already running Emacs process, change the GDB command shown in the minibuffer to say this: gdb -i=mi -p PID where PID is the numerical process ID of the running Emacs process, displayed by system utilities such as 'top' or 'ps' on Posix hosts and Task Manager on MS-Windows. It's the third sentence that's at issue due to the previously mentioned ambiguities etc. I am suggesting something along the following lines (but you have said IIUC that I have misunderstood the intended meaning): We recommend using the GUI front-end for GDB provided by Emacs. With it, you can start GDB by typing "M-x gdb RET". This will suggest the default binary for GDB to load; if you want GDB to load a different binary, change the suggestion as needed. Alternatively, if you want to attach the debugger to an already running Emacs process, change the GDB command shown in the minibuffer to say this: gdb -i=mi -p PID where PID is the numerical process ID of the running Emacs process, displayed by system utilities such as 'top' or 'ps' on Posix hosts and Task Manager on MS-Windows. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 11 15:27:51 2016 Received: (at 22984) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Mar 2016 20:27:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45463 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aeTf5-0006Zq-N0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 15:27:51 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:60978) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aeTf3-0006Zc-9Z for 22984@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 15:27:49 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aeTeu-0005Lr-VI for 22984@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 15:27:44 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:53243) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aeTeu-0005Li-SS; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 15:27:40 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4026 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aeTeu-0006Zk-85; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 15:27:40 -0500 Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 22:27:07 +0200 Message-Id: <8360wsiwv8.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: nljlistbox2@gmail.com (N. Jackson) In-reply-to: <87oaakeptk.fsf@gmail.com> (nljlistbox2@gmail.com) Subject: Re: bug#22984: 25.0.92; Typo in etc/DEBUG References: <87h9gd3ux3.fsf@gmail.com> <838u1pj996.fsf@gnu.org> <878u1o50l6.fsf@gmail.com> <83k2l8j1uc.fsf@gnu.org> <871t7g4ywv.fsf@gmail.com> <83d1r0iyy6.fsf@gnu.org> <87oaakeptk.fsf@gmail.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22984 Cc: 22984@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > From: nljlistbox2@gmail.com (N. Jackson) > Cc: 22984@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 16:12:55 -0400 > > We recommend using the GUI front-end for GDB provided by Emacs. > With it, you can start GDB by typing "M-x gdb RET". This will > suggest the default binary for GDB to load; if you want GDB to > load a different binary, change the suggestion as needed. > Alternatively, if you want to attach the debugger to an already > running Emacs process, change the GDB command shown in the > minibuffer to say this: > > gdb -i=mi -p PID > > where PID is the numerical process ID of the running Emacs > process, displayed by system utilities such as 'top' or 'ps' on > Posix hosts and Task Manager on MS-Windows. How about the following variant? This will suggest the file name of the default binary to debug; if the suggested default is not the Emacs binary you want to debug, change the file name as needed. (This avoids the potentially confusing word "load", and also makes it clear we are talking about debugging Emacs, not some other program.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 11 16:19:05 2016 Received: (at 22984) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Mar 2016 21:19:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45517 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aeUSe-0007w3-Ug for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 16:19:05 -0500 Received: from mail-io0-f170.google.com ([209.85.223.170]:35928) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aeUSd-0007va-9h for 22984@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 16:19:03 -0500 Received: by mail-io0-f170.google.com with SMTP id z76so161135942iof.3 for <22984@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 13:19:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=GD02AG/7dvKE3E8h7H1J9ZC4Wah0f7bmYyg/XYLhOJk=; b=TufyWPrSB2itSLQ/tJTro+Ju65midQE3mvUfAJ6gtmgEOMxHN52YRxitECIF5SOPeq BN4pmOup/I7aqYiIRS/4Z+/f/H6PqVlmoFDPtEfP71iNWONLaOeMaDMrHCqzn/4fdmtX 5QZhwAQIgcu5MRExVhzKMObSmM2XIqDzRhTDpiK+Nop5dSeSyuWxDev9U8qxboV1oxk/ cc8av+pGWbahrH61jqvMCfpMkSD9InDtfe/G0kLovKZ2qRtOqHGTI9zNaBC1uflqMmQE 0v38/g9oYjZLQKrjxug/f1MZivA8PU17KANW3V2lTU9hltrXHLBzkIWSMALi8d8Xw2uO HuGw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=GD02AG/7dvKE3E8h7H1J9ZC4Wah0f7bmYyg/XYLhOJk=; b=VKevmHq+ED++lqpuB5euHfqLbkk89uCdV+CRrYSyXu3zlsenEs9Z9gZEVb1kRk1D7a iG7AGhkZOQXQeuj9+Cw9YHdBchevyS/ouMCpRufmrlj3q/H9sFUzFCTDCkkogMrldfNR RS6A8JnvESfSBuhlnza5SvEDAXO2hum59NrgBqbC9IT8TmDbSQnu1oOBxzp9twJonqwO bMCvR8n7wLDgkozxA6RfaxB228Zcc0TVMNk0ZPqM5PHvz9mVcYjCa9IE2Nv8xol6freU 4bkLHKmzKAckP1WK/67Fg4sKTUJA9Va/SoAxMEPsuC52Wf5756IpTNyF67WQGRbQERzG alpQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJLcUgD9Gee1S0aRrAaX2Y8el6TXUyeNtc02pnTf3yUADAEIGy84f1+luSaMifMfRw== X-Received: by 10.107.11.213 with SMTP id 82mr14926919iol.152.1457731137878; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 13:18:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from moondust.nodomain.none (blk-30-140-134.eastlink.ca. [96.30.140.134]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y190sm4247799iod.14.2016.03.11.13.18.56 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 11 Mar 2016 13:18:57 -0800 (PST) From: nljlistbox2@gmail.com (N. Jackson) To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#22984: 25.0.92; Typo in etc/DEBUG References: <87h9gd3ux3.fsf@gmail.com> <838u1pj996.fsf@gnu.org> <878u1o50l6.fsf@gmail.com> <83k2l8j1uc.fsf@gnu.org> <871t7g4ywv.fsf@gmail.com> <83d1r0iyy6.fsf@gnu.org> <87oaakeptk.fsf@gmail.com> <8360wsiwv8.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 17:18:56 -0400 In-Reply-To: <8360wsiwv8.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 11 Mar 2016 22:27:07 +0200") Message-ID: <87h9gcemrj.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.92 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22984 Cc: 22984@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) At 22:27 +0200 on Friday 2016-03-11, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > How about the following variant? > > This will suggest the file name of the default binary to debug; if > the suggested default is not the Emacs binary you want to debug, > change the file name as needed. > > (This avoids the potentially confusing word "load", and also makes it > clear we are talking about debugging Emacs, not some other program.) Yes, that's better. It clearly states its meaning. Did you see the following suggestion in my earlier message. [I wasn't sure if you'd missed it, or if you'd decided it wasn't valid.] This was with regard to etc/DEBUG not being about the Elisp debugger. At 14:30 -0400 on Friday 2016-03-11, N. Jackson wrote: > > However, the file is named "DEBUG" and the title is "Debugging GNU > Emacs", so it is by no means obvious that this is not the right file to > look at. [to find information about the Elisp debugger] > So perhaps the title should be something like "Debugging GNU Emacs with > GDB", and perhaps it should start out by saying something along the > lines of > > This file is about debugging Emacs with GDB. For information about > the Lisp debugger and about Edebug (the source-level debugger for > Emacs Lisp programs), see the node "Debugging" in the Elisp manual. Regards, N. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Mar 12 03:35:22 2016 Received: (at 22984-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Mar 2016 08:35:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45696 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aef18-0007bh-8I for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Mar 2016 03:35:22 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:42888) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aef16-0007bU-JX for 22984-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Mar 2016 03:35:20 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aef0y-0002sh-7m for 22984-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Mar 2016 03:35:15 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:39057) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aef0y-0002sd-4R; Sat, 12 Mar 2016 03:35:12 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4894 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aef0x-0000Sy-7p; Sat, 12 Mar 2016 03:35:11 -0500 Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2016 10:34:01 +0200 Message-Id: <83egbggkna.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: nljlistbox2@gmail.com (N. Jackson) In-reply-to: <87h9gcemrj.fsf@gmail.com> (nljlistbox2@gmail.com) Subject: Re: bug#22984: 25.0.92; Typo in etc/DEBUG References: <87h9gd3ux3.fsf@gmail.com> <838u1pj996.fsf@gnu.org> <878u1o50l6.fsf@gmail.com> <83k2l8j1uc.fsf@gnu.org> <871t7g4ywv.fsf@gmail.com> <83d1r0iyy6.fsf@gnu.org> <87oaakeptk.fsf@gmail.com> <8360wsiwv8.fsf@gnu.org> <87h9gcemrj.fsf@gmail.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22984-done Cc: 22984-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > From: nljlistbox2@gmail.com (N. Jackson) > Cc: 22984@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 17:18:56 -0400 > > At 22:27 +0200 on Friday 2016-03-11, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > > How about the following variant? > > > > This will suggest the file name of the default binary to debug; if > > the suggested default is not the Emacs binary you want to debug, > > change the file name as needed. > > > > (This avoids the potentially confusing word "load", and also makes it > > clear we are talking about debugging Emacs, not some other program.) > > Yes, that's better. It clearly states its meaning. Pushed, thanks. > Did you see the following suggestion in my earlier message. [I wasn't > sure if you'd missed it, or if you'd decided it wasn't valid.] This was > with regard to etc/DEBUG not being about the Elisp debugger. We only mention the Lisp debugger once in the entire file. I added a reference to the ELisp manual there. From unknown Fri Jun 20 07:19:27 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 11:24:03 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator