From unknown Tue Jun 17 20:21:05 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#22727 <22727@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#22727 <22727@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: Managing packages writes the user init file Reply-To: bug#22727 <22727@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2025 03:21:05 +0000 retitle 22727 Managing packages writes the user init file reassign 22727 emacs submitter 22727 Angelo Graziosi severity 22727 normal thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 17 19:50:04 2016 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Feb 2016 00:50:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60072 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aWCnD-0001VR-QB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2016 19:50:04 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:53705) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aWCnB-0001Un-OK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2016 19:50:02 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWCn0-0001Ku-Vz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2016 19:49:56 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:47242) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWCn0-0001Kq-Sm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2016 19:49:50 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:44659) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWCmv-0001jB-2O for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2016 19:49:50 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWCmp-0001JQ-Dw for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2016 19:49:45 -0500 Received: from smtp204.alice.it ([82.57.200.100]:8400) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWCmp-0001JI-43 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2016 19:49:39 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (79.19.230.242) by smtp204.alice.it (8.6.060.43) (authenticated as angelo.graziosi@alice.it) id 5697BA0B0700F1DD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 01:49:36 +0100 To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: Angelo Graziosi Subject: Managing packages writes the user init file Message-ID: <56C51520.6020205@alice.it> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 01:49:36 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) I have noticed that just using Options - Manage Emacs Packages writes my init file. For example I find these additions in my case: (custom-set-variables ;; custom-set-variables was added by Custom. ;; If you edit it by hand, you could mess it up, so be careful. ;; Your init file should contain only one such instance. ;; If there is more than one, they won't work right. '(package-selected-packages (quote (tabbar-ruler sr-speedbar)))) (custom-set-faces ;; custom-set-faces was added by Custom. ;; If you edit it by hand, you could mess it up, so be careful. ;; Your init file should contain only one such instance. ;; If there is more than one, they won't work right. ) I discovered this only casually.. I think this is not the right thing to do. Why an application should write a file which belongs to the user? Maybe there is a better way saving those additions in another file which the use could customize, more or less as we do with the desktop file or lock file. For example in my init.el file I have ;; Instead to save in ~/.projects.ede (setq ede-project-placeholder-cache-file "~/.emacs.d/projects.ede") ;; Instead to save in ~/.emacs.desktop (setq desktop-base-file-name "~/.emacs.d/desktop") ;; Instead to save in ~/.emacs.desktop.lock (setq desktop-base-lock-name "~/.emacs.d/desktop.lock") We could have something like this ;; Instead to save in ~/.emacs.packages_installed (setq desktop-base-lock-name "~/.emacs.d/packages_installed") This would be very useful.. :) TIA, Angelo. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 18 11:48:39 2016 Received: (at 22727) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Feb 2016 16:48:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33133 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aWRks-00067I-TR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 11:48:39 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:38988) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aWRkq-000674-RR for 22727@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 11:48:37 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWRkh-0005Jt-Sz for 22727@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 11:48:31 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:51652) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWRkh-0005Jp-Pz; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 11:48:27 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1842 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aWRkf-00007m-0g; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 11:48:25 -0500 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 18:48:41 +0200 Message-Id: <8337squfpy.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Angelo Graziosi In-reply-to: <56C51520.6020205@alice.it> (message from Angelo Graziosi on Thu, 18 Feb 2016 01:49:36 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#22727: Managing packages writes the user init file References: <56C51520.6020205@alice.it> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22727 Cc: 22727@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > From: Angelo Graziosi > Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 01:49:36 +0100 > > I have noticed that just using > > Options - Manage Emacs Packages > > writes my init file. For example I find these additions in my case: > > (custom-set-variables > ;; custom-set-variables was added by Custom. > ;; If you edit it by hand, you could mess it up, so be careful. > ;; Your init file should contain only one such instance. > ;; If there is more than one, they won't work right. > '(package-selected-packages (quote (tabbar-ruler sr-speedbar)))) > (custom-set-faces > ;; custom-set-faces was added by Custom. > ;; If you edit it by hand, you could mess it up, so be careful. > ;; Your init file should contain only one such instance. > ;; If there is more than one, they won't work right. > ) > > I discovered this only casually.. > > I think this is not the right thing to do. Why an application should write a file which belongs to the user? This is how Custom behaves since ages ago: when you save customizations, it writes such forms into your ~/.emacs. The use case with package managing is therefore not special in any way; rather, you are proposing to divert the customizations made by Custom to a separate file. We already have an option to do that, named 'custom-file'; see the node "Saving Customizations" in the Emacs User Manual. Is that option sufficient to solve your problem in this bug report? If not, can you tell why not? It is possible that your objection is somehow limited to what package.el does, but, as written, it describes a much more broad class of functionalities, and is not specific to package.el. For the record, the reason why customizations are by default saved in ~/.emacs is that originally the idea was to teach users how to use Lisp for customizing Emacs, so that users could progressively migrate from using Custom to writing their own Lisp, as they gain proficiency. I don't think we've abandoned this idea, even though I'm not sure it is working as planned. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 18 13:49:33 2016 Received: (at 22727) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Feb 2016 18:49:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33194 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aWTdt-0002Ce-5b for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 13:49:33 -0500 Received: from smtp201.alice.it ([82.57.200.97]:1981) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aWTdr-0002CN-1u for 22727@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 13:49:31 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (79.19.230.242) by smtp201.alice.it (8.6.060.43) (authenticated as angelo.graziosi@alice.it) id 5697AF2907552191; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 19:49:22 +0100 Subject: Re: bug#22727: Managing packages writes the user init file To: Eli Zaretskii References: <56C51520.6020205@alice.it> <8337squfpy.fsf@gnu.org> From: Angelo Graziosi Message-ID: <56C6122B.4050903@alice.it> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 19:49:15 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8337squfpy.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: I opened this bug report because John asked me: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2016-02/msg00989.html The problem here is NOT that when one customizes something this is saved in the init file but that also when one does not customize anything, the init file is changed, more or less silently. For example clicking Options -Manage Emacs packages. [...] Content analysis details: (2.7 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 2.7 RCVD_IN_PSBL RBL: Received via a relay in PSBL [82.57.200.97 listed in psbl.surriel.com] -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2) [82.57.200.97 listed in wl.mailspike.net] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (angelo.graziosi[at]alice.it) -0.0 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22727 Cc: 22727@debbugs.gnu.org, johnw@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: I opened this bug report because John asked me: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2016-02/msg00989.html The problem here is NOT that when one customizes something this is saved in the init file but that also when one does not customize anything, the init file is changed, more or less silently. For example clicking Options -Manage Emacs packages. [...] Content analysis details: (2.7 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 2.7 RCVD_IN_PSBL RBL: Received via a relay in PSBL [82.57.200.97 listed in psbl.surriel.com] -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2) [82.57.200.97 listed in wl.mailspike.net] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (angelo.graziosi[at]alice.it) -0.0 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain I opened this bug report because John asked me: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2016-02/msg00989.html The problem here is NOT that when one customizes something this is saved in the init file but that also when one does not customize anything, the init file is changed, more or less silently. For example clicking Options -Manage Emacs packages. Emacs did not exhibit this behavior some time ago (an year? two?) Maybe you have to reread the full thread starting here: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2016-02/msg00958.html If you think is right that an application changes the user init file, more or less silently, you can close this bug. Angelo Il 18/02/2016 17:48, Eli Zaretskii ha scritto: >> From: Angelo Graziosi >> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 01:49:36 +0100 >> >> I have noticed that just using >> >> Options - Manage Emacs Packages >> >> writes my init file. For example I find these additions in my case: >> >> (custom-set-variables >> ;; custom-set-variables was added by Custom. >> ;; If you edit it by hand, you could mess it up, so be careful. >> ;; Your init file should contain only one such instance. >> ;; If there is more than one, they won't work right. >> '(package-selected-packages (quote (tabbar-ruler sr-speedbar)))) >> (custom-set-faces >> ;; custom-set-faces was added by Custom. >> ;; If you edit it by hand, you could mess it up, so be careful. >> ;; Your init file should contain only one such instance. >> ;; If there is more than one, they won't work right. >> ) >> >> I discovered this only casually.. >> >> I think this is not the right thing to do. Why an application should write a file which belongs to the user? > > This is how Custom behaves since ages ago: when you save > customizations, it writes such forms into your ~/.emacs. The use case > with package managing is therefore not special in any way; rather, you > are proposing to divert the customizations made by Custom to a > separate file. We already have an option to do that, named > 'custom-file'; see the node "Saving Customizations" in the Emacs User > Manual. Is that option sufficient to solve your problem in this bug > report? If not, can you tell why not? > > It is possible that your objection is somehow limited to what > package.el does, but, as written, it describes a much more broad class > of functionalities, and is not specific to package.el. > > For the record, the reason why customizations are by default saved in > ~/.emacs is that originally the idea was to teach users how to use > Lisp for customizing Emacs, so that users could progressively migrate > from using Custom to writing their own Lisp, as they gain proficiency. > I don't think we've abandoned this idea, even though I'm not sure it > is working as planned. > From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 18 15:29:24 2016 Received: (at 22727) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Feb 2016 20:29:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33221 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aWVCV-0004VI-W4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 15:29:24 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:47952) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aWVCU-0004V3-A5 for 22727@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 15:29:22 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWVCN-0003Hk-TX for 22727@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 15:29:17 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:55597) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWVCK-0003HT-7D; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 15:29:12 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2118 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aWVCJ-0008Em-FZ; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 15:29:11 -0500 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 22:29:27 +0200 Message-Id: <8360xlu5i0.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Angelo Graziosi In-reply-to: <56C6122B.4050903@alice.it> (message from Angelo Graziosi on Thu, 18 Feb 2016 19:49:15 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#22727: Managing packages writes the user init file References: <56C51520.6020205@alice.it> <8337squfpy.fsf@gnu.org> <56C6122B.4050903@alice.it> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22727 Cc: 22727@debbugs.gnu.org, johnw@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > Cc: 22727@debbugs.gnu.org, johnw@gnu.org > From: Angelo Graziosi > Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 19:49:15 +0100 > > The problem here is NOT that when one customizes something this is saved > in the init file but that also when one does not customize anything, the > init file is changed, more or less silently. For example clicking > Options -Manage Emacs packages. If we solve this part, i.e. avoid modifying .emacs until the user actually selects some packages to install, would that address your concerns that triggered this bug report? As for silent modifications: if the user accepts some options that should remain in effect for future sessions, that's a reason good enough to save these settings. This is what Custom does when you save the customizations for future sessions. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 18 17:04:12 2016 Received: (at 22727) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Feb 2016 22:04:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33298 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aWWgG-0006lf-7Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 17:04:12 -0500 Received: from smtp202.alice.it ([82.57.200.98]:61662) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aWWgE-0006lP-EI for 22727@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 17:04:11 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (79.19.230.242) by smtp202.alice.it (8.6.060.43) (authenticated as angelo.graziosi@alice.it) id 5697B30A072DB340; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 23:04:00 +0100 Subject: Re: bug#22727: Managing packages writes the user init file References: <56C51520.6020205@alice.it> <8337squfpy.fsf@gnu.org> <56C6122B.4050903@alice.it> <8360xlu5i0.fsf@gnu.org> To: Eli Zaretskii From: Angelo Graziosi Message-ID: <56C63FD9.4050102@alice.it> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 23:04:09 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8360xlu5i0.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22727 Cc: 22727@debbugs.gnu.org, johnw@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) Il 18/02/2016 21:29, Eli Zaretskii ha scritto: >> Cc: 22727@debbugs.gnu.org, johnw@gnu.org >> From: Angelo Graziosi >> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 19:49:15 +0100 >> >> The problem here is NOT that when one customizes something this is saved >> in the init file but that also when one does not customize anything, the >> init file is changed, more or less silently. For example clicking >> Options -Manage Emacs packages. > > If we solve this part, i.e. avoid modifying .emacs until the user > actually selects some packages to install, would that address your > concerns that triggered this bug report? No. 1. As I tried to explain, I haven't opened this report to see fixed an issue for me. Please read: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2016-02/msg00989.html On emacs-devel there is a discussion in which others think Emacs should not change the init file when one manages Emacs packages. 2. Since I discovered this behavior, each time I need to manege packages (I have some packages installed from MELPA), I save my init file and restore it after the managing. So I never used those additions and Emacs seems to work the same. Indeed I don't understand why installing packages should change MY init file.. 3. Anyway, I am not an Emacs developer so it could be the case that for some obscure (to me) reason, Emacs needs those additions/informations. If this is true, why not use another packages configuration files? On emacs-devel it seems that other users/developers would prefer that.. Given the nature of the addictions, (custom-set-variables ;; custom-set-variables was added by Custom. ;; If you edit it by hand, you could mess it up, so be careful. ;; Your init file should contain only one such instance. ;; If there is more than one, they won't work right. '(package-selected-packages (quote (bla bla bla)))) (custom-set-faces ;; custom-set-faces was added by Custom. ;; If you edit it by hand, you could mess it up, so be careful. ;; Your init file should contain only one such instance. ;; If there is more than one, they won't work right. ) why not to use a separate file also for Options - Customize Emacs? If I understand the discussion on emacs-devel someone proposes to use something like "customize-emacs" both for managing packages and "Customize Emacs". This seems reasonable. Se also http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2016-02/msg01034.html, where I reported a raw example how things could be from the end user POV. In any case, I can live with current status. 4. This thread seems to have all the prerequisites to become another of those endless thread, so please close this bug report (who is interested could always reopen another) or remove me from the discussion. Thanks, Angelo. > > As for silent modifications: if the user accepts some options that > should remain in effect for future sessions, that's a reason good > enough to save these settings. This is what Custom does when you save > the customizations for future sessions. > > Thanks. > From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 19 01:36:13 2016 Received: (at 22727-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Feb 2016 06:36:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33424 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aWefl-0005DS-GI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 01:36:13 -0500 Received: from mxin.ulb.ac.be ([164.15.128.112]:49940) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aWefj-0005DG-Kn for 22727-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 01:36:11 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AqgFAC+3xlakD4Xx/2dsb2JhbABegmmCEKZSAQEBAQEBBowqiReGDQKCKQEBAQEBAWUnhEIBAQR5EAgDISUPAQRJE4gFAxK3FwWEagEBAQcCAR2FSoUDiG8FknOEEo85hEOCdIVgjkdiggIZgUk7Log8AQEB Received: from mathsrv4.ulb.ac.be (HELO localhost) ([164.15.133.241]) by smtp.ulb.ac.be with ESMTP; 19 Feb 2016 07:36:08 +0100 From: Nicolas Richard To: Angelo Graziosi Subject: Re: bug#22727: Managing packages writes the user init file References: <56C51520.6020205@alice.it> <8337squfpy.fsf@gnu.org> <56C6122B.4050903@alice.it> <8360xlu5i0.fsf@gnu.org> <56C63FD9.4050102@alice.it> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 07:36:50 +0100 In-Reply-To: <56C63FD9.4050102@alice.it> (Angelo Graziosi's message of "Thu, 18 Feb 2016 23:04:09 +0100") Message-ID: <87r3g9w6il.fsf@members.fsf.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22727-done Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 22727-done@debbugs.gnu.org, johnw@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) Angelo Graziosi writes: > please close this bug report (who is > interested could always reopen another) done. Note that you can do that yourself by appending -done to the bug number in the bug address (I did just that). Nicolas. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 19 04:40:46 2016 Received: (at 22727) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Feb 2016 09:40:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33504 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aWhYM-0001Nr-9c for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 04:40:46 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:34330) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aWhYK-0001Nf-4W for 22727@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 04:40:44 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWhYD-0001iW-Id for 22727@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 04:40:38 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:43072) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWhY9-0001iE-Ga; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 04:40:33 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2875 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aWhY8-00018C-Vh; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 04:40:33 -0500 Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 11:40:28 +0200 Message-Id: <83k2m1rqb7.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: 22727@debbugs.gnu.org, johnw@gnu.org In-reply-to: <56C63FD9.4050102@alice.it> (message from Angelo Graziosi on Thu, 18 Feb 2016 23:04:09 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#22727: Managing packages writes the user init file References: <56C51520.6020205@alice.it> <8337squfpy.fsf@gnu.org> <56C6122B.4050903@alice.it> <8360xlu5i0.fsf@gnu.org> <56C63FD9.4050102@alice.it> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22727 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > Cc: 22727@debbugs.gnu.org, johnw@gnu.org > From: Angelo Graziosi > Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 23:04:09 +0100 > > > If we solve this part, i.e. avoid modifying .emacs until the user > > actually selects some packages to install, would that address your > > concerns that triggered this bug report? > > No. > > 1. > > As I tried to explain, I haven't opened this report to see fixed an > issue for me. Please read: > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2016-02/msg00989.html Thanks, I've read that thread before writing the above. > On emacs-devel there is a discussion in which others think Emacs should > not change the init file when one manages Emacs packages. I thought this bug report was supposed to be the place where the issue is discussed. It sounds strange to me to file a bug, and then discuss it elsewhere. > 2. > > Since I discovered this behavior, each time I need to manege packages (I > have some packages installed from MELPA), I save my init file and > restore it after the managing. So I never used those additions and Emacs > seems to work the same. If the stuff written by package.el is not needed, then it should not write it, I agree. > Indeed I don't understand why installing packages should change MY > init file.. Presumably because Emacs needs to know what is installed the next time you invoke package.el. > 3. > > Anyway, I am not an Emacs developer so it could be the case that for > some obscure (to me) reason, Emacs needs those additions/informations. > If this is true, why not use another packages configuration files? On > emacs-devel it seems that other users/developers would prefer that.. > Given the nature of the addictions, > > (custom-set-variables > ;; custom-set-variables was added by Custom. > ;; If you edit it by hand, you could mess it up, so be careful. > ;; Your init file should contain only one such instance. > ;; If there is more than one, they won't work right. > '(package-selected-packages (quote (bla bla bla)))) > (custom-set-faces > ;; custom-set-faces was added by Custom. > ;; If you edit it by hand, you could mess it up, so be careful. > ;; Your init file should contain only one such instance. > ;; If there is more than one, they won't work right. > ) > > why not to use a separate file also for Options - Customize Emacs? As mentioned elsewhere, you can customize the variable custom-file to have that. From unknown Tue Jun 17 20:21:05 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 11:24:03 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator