From unknown Sat Aug 16 14:27:29 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#22669: loading term/xterm.elc loads cl-lib at runtime Resent-From: Glenn Morris Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2016 22:58:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 22669 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 22669@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: submit@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.145549063015045 (code B ref -1); Sun, 14 Feb 2016 22:58:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Feb 2016 22:57:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39159 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aV5bK-0003ub-Hp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2016 17:57:10 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:42028) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aV5bJ-0003uP-Ef for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2016 17:57:09 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aV5bD-0000iE-H6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2016 17:57:04 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:34775) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aV5bD-0000i8-Da for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2016 17:57:03 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aV5bB-0004cq-Ex; Sun, 14 Feb 2016 17:57:01 -0500 From: Glenn Morris X-Spook: blackjack lynch Cloud bank Port Authority import number X-Ran: DTAUREcH;UlOjbm*D=kA.f[SZ?N^@}=U:$t-UYt]2rnZ'u];uv,guj(z#.__lH|mbP$`3i X-Hue: white X-Attribution: GM Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2016 17:57:00 -0500 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Package: emacs Version: 25.0.91 Loading term/xterm.elc loads cl-lib at runtime. This means that cl-lib is loaded at startup in "emacs -Q -nw", which is undesirable. Apparently it's avoidable: http://debbugs.gnu.org/22613#63 we'd have to pre-fill cl-generic's dispatcher cache with the specific dispatcher used (grep for cl--generic-prefill-dispatchers to see what that looks like). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 14 17:58:41 2016 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Feb 2016 22:58:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39163 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aV5cm-0003xM-Rr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2016 17:58:40 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:42472) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aV5ck-0003x5-QE for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2016 17:58:38 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aV5cf-00016W-6C for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2016 17:58:33 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:34802) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aV5cf-00016S-3B for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2016 17:58:33 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aV5ce-0004zR-2t for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2016 17:58:32 -0500 Subject: control message for bug 19759 To: X-Mailer: mail (GNU Mailutils 2.99.98) Message-Id: From: Glenn Morris Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2016 17:58:32 -0500 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) block 19759 by 22669 From unknown Sat Aug 16 14:27:29 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#22669: loading term/xterm.elc loads cl-lib at runtime Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 03:38:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22669 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Glenn Morris Cc: 22669@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 22669-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22669.145550747313563 (code B ref 22669); Mon, 15 Feb 2016 03:38:01 +0000 Received: (at 22669) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Feb 2016 03:37:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39207 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aV9yz-0003Wh-Au for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2016 22:37:53 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:34673) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aV9yx-0003WU-RN for 22669@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2016 22:37:52 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aV9yn-0004gM-Nc for 22669@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2016 22:37:46 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:39244) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aV9yn-0004gI-Jt for 22669@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2016 22:37:41 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4085 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aV9ym-0004Jx-LV; Sun, 14 Feb 2016 22:37:41 -0500 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 05:37:46 +0200 Message-Id: <83oabiy779.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: (message from Glenn Morris on Sun, 14 Feb 2016 17:57:00 -0500) References: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > From: Glenn Morris > Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2016 17:57:00 -0500 > > Loading term/xterm.elc loads cl-lib at runtime. > This means that cl-lib is loaded at startup in "emacs -Q -nw", which is > undesirable. Why is that undesirable? How is xterm.el different from any other package which requires cl-lib? From unknown Sat Aug 16 14:27:29 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#22669: loading term/xterm.elc loads cl-lib at runtime Resent-From: Glenn Morris Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 18:13:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22669 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 22669@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 22669-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22669.145555995623691 (code B ref 22669); Mon, 15 Feb 2016 18:13:02 +0000 Received: (at 22669) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Feb 2016 18:12:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40421 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aVNdU-0006A3-HH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2016 13:12:36 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:53382) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aVNdS-00069q-Qg for 22669@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2016 13:12:35 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aVNdM-0003ai-RK for 22669@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2016 13:12:29 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:56601) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aVNdM-0003aU-Nq for 22669@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2016 13:12:28 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aVNdJ-0002lM-QM; Mon, 15 Feb 2016 13:12:26 -0500 From: Glenn Morris References: <83oabiy779.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spook: Human to Human Computer infrastructure Power lines X-Ran: \|D4/Q"0MQ-N,5*Yq0g.j"-h1!/Gv)}2.)s(vri1k4}lMy?g].4IW2/bE'T`,4ud#+Bz;S X-Hue: blue X-Attribution: GM Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 13:12:25 -0500 In-Reply-To: <83oabiy779.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 15 Feb 2016 05:37:46 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Loading term/xterm.elc loads cl-lib at runtime. >> This means that cl-lib is loaded at startup in "emacs -Q -nw", which is >> undesirable. > > Why is that undesirable? > > How is xterm.el different from any other package which requires > cl-lib? This was explained in http://debbugs.gnu.org/22613#45 Because we generally try to ensure that simply running "emacs -Q" doesn't need any non-preloaded files to start up. lisp/term/xterm is something of a corner case. Compare with term/x-win etc, which is preloaded. Also in this particular case, it can create the mistaken impression that cl-lib is always available, which I think leads to some of the ongoing confusion in bug#22613. From unknown Sat Aug 16 14:27:29 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#22669: loading term/xterm.elc loads cl-lib at runtime Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 19:57:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22669 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Glenn Morris Cc: 22669@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 22669-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22669.14555661657376 (code B ref 22669); Mon, 15 Feb 2016 19:57:02 +0000 Received: (at 22669) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Feb 2016 19:56:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40474 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aVPFd-0001ut-0B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2016 14:56:05 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:49799) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aVPFb-0001uQ-4e for 22669@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2016 14:56:03 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aVPFR-0002X5-3H for 22669@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2016 14:55:58 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:58497) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aVPFQ-0002Wy-QK for 22669@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2016 14:55:52 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2123 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aVPFP-0006xo-PE; Mon, 15 Feb 2016 14:55:52 -0500 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 21:55:59 +0200 Message-Id: <83si0twxww.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: (message from Glenn Morris on Mon, 15 Feb 2016 13:12:25 -0500) References: <83oabiy779.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > From: Glenn Morris > Cc: 22669@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 13:12:25 -0500 > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > >> Loading term/xterm.elc loads cl-lib at runtime. > >> This means that cl-lib is loaded at startup in "emacs -Q -nw", which is > >> undesirable. > > > > Why is that undesirable? > > > > How is xterm.el different from any other package which requires > > cl-lib? > > This was explained in http://debbugs.gnu.org/22613#45 Sorry, I don't see any explanation there. What I do see is the fact that we treat lisp/term/* files specially. I agree with that, since these files are only loaded at startup when needed, so they are not something "emacs -Q" "needs". I also see there a suggestion to figure out why cl-lib gets loaded, and I believe this part is now complete. > Also in this particular case, it can create the mistaken impression that > cl-lib is always available, which I think leads to some of the ongoing > confusion in bug#22613. OK, but that doesn't sound like a problem we need to fix in the code. So my vote is not to fix this one. From unknown Sat Aug 16 14:27:29 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#22669: loading term/xterm.elc loads cl-lib at runtime Resent-From: Glenn Morris Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 06:35:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22669 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 22669@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 22669-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22669.145560445912992 (code B ref 22669); Tue, 16 Feb 2016 06:35:01 +0000 Received: (at 22669) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Feb 2016 06:34:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40704 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aVZDG-0003NU-Rg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 01:34:18 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:57871) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aVZDF-0003NI-CH for 22669@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 01:34:17 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aVZD9-0007Ho-Cd for 22669@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 01:34:12 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:41602) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aVZD9-0007Hk-9Z for 22669@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 01:34:11 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aVZD8-0002Y8-Bb; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 01:34:10 -0500 From: Glenn Morris References: <83oabiy779.fsf@gnu.org> <83si0twxww.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spook: Arellano-Felix Interstate Maritime domain awarenes Delta X-Ran: r->\%;~p9M20p#K]%I'?N5fYTF&>XKN4X;LsbADiQ4fB^|TxV.nOw&_NA{#Hu$u{HNR^zG X-Hue: red X-Attribution: GM Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 01:34:10 -0500 In-Reply-To: <83si0twxww.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 15 Feb 2016 21:55:59 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Eli Zaretskii wrote: > these files are only loaded at startup when needed, so they are not > something "emacs -Q" "needs". term/xterm is needed in 90+% of -nw or without-X builds on GNU/Linux. (Pulling a reasonable number from the air. All the terminal emulators people actually use load term/xterm.) So IME that counts as "effectively preloaded" and therefore makes this something worth fixing. From unknown Sat Aug 16 14:27:29 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#22669: loading term/xterm.elc loads cl-lib at runtime Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 15:56:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22669 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Glenn Morris Cc: 22669@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 22669-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22669.14556381245281 (code B ref 22669); Tue, 16 Feb 2016 15:56:02 +0000 Received: (at 22669) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Feb 2016 15:55:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38212 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aVhyG-0001N7-56 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:55:24 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:40131) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aVhyE-0001Mv-Lc for 22669@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:55:22 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aVhy6-0005I1-Ge for 22669@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:55:17 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:57243) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aVhy6-0005Hx-D2 for 22669@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:55:14 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3029 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aVhy5-00038z-Bm; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:55:13 -0500 Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 17:55:23 +0200 Message-Id: <83mvr0wsyc.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: (message from Glenn Morris on Tue, 16 Feb 2016 01:34:10 -0500) References: <83oabiy779.fsf@gnu.org> <83si0twxww.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > From: Glenn Morris > Cc: 22669@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 01:34:10 -0500 > > > these files are only loaded at startup when needed, so they are not > > something "emacs -Q" "needs". > > term/xterm is needed in 90+% of -nw or without-X builds on GNU/Linux. > (Pulling a reasonable number from the air. All the terminal emulators > people actually use load term/xterm.) > So IME that counts as "effectively preloaded" and therefore makes this > something worth fixing. Perhaps I don't understand the policy. My interpretation of it is that we preload stuff that is needed by 100% of builds during every startup. Under this interpretation, 90+% is not enough, especially since there are also GUI sessions which don't need that at all. So I don't think your observation convinces me, even if I agree with your 90+% figure. I don't think we should punish the rest of the users by preloading a non-trivial amount of code they might never need. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 16 11:50:31 2016 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Feb 2016 16:50:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38273 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aVipb-0002iM-Jo for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 11:50:31 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:57087) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aVipa-0002ho-8h for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 11:50:30 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aVipU-0002p0-ES for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 11:50:25 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:58260) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aVipU-0002ov-62 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 11:50:24 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aVipT-0001me-7Q for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 11:50:23 -0500 Subject: control message for bug 22669 To: X-Mailer: mail (GNU Mailutils 2.99.98) Message-Id: From: Glenn Morris Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 11:50:23 -0500 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) close 22669 25.0.92