Subject: RE: bug#22595: 25.1.50; Wishlist: There should be a way to list timers

From: Ingo Lohmar <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2016 18:13:31 +0100

On Tue, Feb 09 2016 07:16 (-0800), Drew Adams wrote:

> I'm with Lars on this one.  What is an implementation detail from
> one point of view, and for one user, can be a "user-level feature"
> for another user.

Agreed.

>
> Many Emacs users interact with Emacs at deeper levels, where a
> text/overlay property is an object of concern, not just something
> behind the scenes.  Likewise for other objects: processes, timers,
> whatever.

Processes reference external entities that might be created by Emacs,
but that are, partially or entirely, beyond Emacs' control.  So there is
a good reason to offer the user a UI to list and control them.

>
> And we do have UIs for working with overlays or text properties.
> At least I do.  Likewise, interacting with keymaps and font-lock.

I am unfamiliar with those UIs, which are they?  Using terminology that
I am familiar with, we have "APIs" in the form of functions and
variables dealing with overlays and text properties.  But we do not have
commands to produce a buffer listing of all overlays used in this
buffer, with commands to delete some of them etc, or am I missing
something fundamental?  On this machine, 'M-x apropos overlay' does not
show me anything close.

>
> No one is obliged to use a UI that provides easier access to such
> things, but that access can be useful for some Emacs users.  Some
> Emacs users will never go near hexl mode, but for those who do,
> it is useful.

Not quite the same as features for examining entities (like timers) that
only exist within Emacs, I would say.

As I said in an answer to Lars, this is not a crusade to prevent the UI.
I simply have not read a good argument yet why this additional code
burden would be a good thing to have in Emacs core.