From unknown Tue Jun 24 05:10:20 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#22546 <22546@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#22546 <22546@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: Download-Page is "hiding" what the options actually are Reply-To: bug#22546 <22546@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2025 12:10:20 +0000 retitle 22546 Download-Page is "hiding" what the options actually are reassign 22546 guix submitter 22546 Robin Vobruba severity 22546 normal thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 03 12:33:11 2016 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Feb 2016 17:33:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58339 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aR1Ik-0007Hk-Jh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2016 12:33:10 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:44498) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aR0vi-00057c-Gu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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Wed, 03 Feb 2016 09:09:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.50.88.133 with HTTP; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 09:09:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 18:09:12 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Download-Page is "hiding" what the options actually are From: Robin Vobruba To: bug-guix@gnu.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f642bd858c19a052ae0ad0b X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 12:33:08 -0500 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) --e89a8f642bd858c19a052ae0ad0b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Being new to Guix, i went to the Download page: https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/download/ immediately saw the 3 big options read their title/names was confused what the difference might be between "GuixSD" and "Guix Binary" could not find anything inside these 3 option's boxes that would help me read the text below them read the text above them finally understood that the first option is the OS, and the second is only the packag-manager i think that the first option should have a title saying "Operating System install medium" or the like, and the second "Package-Manager for arbitrary Linux". nobody is going to read a small, regular text formatted, two lines long paragraph on a download page, but this is very crucial information for everyone that gets there. ... sounds like a very good project! :-) --e89a8f642bd858c19a052ae0ad0b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Being new to Guix, i went to the Download page:
https://www.gnu.org/s= oftware/guix/download/

immediately saw the 3 big options
read= their title/names
was confused what the difference might be between &qu= ot;GuixSD" and "Guix Binary"
could not find anything insi= de these 3 option's boxes that would help me
read the text below the= m
read the text above them
finally understood that the first option i= s the OS, and the second is only the packag-manager

i think that the= first option should have a title saying "Operating System install med= ium" or the like, and the second "Package-Manager for arbitrary L= inux".
nobody is going to read a small, regular text formatted, two= lines long paragraph on a download page, but this is very crucial informat= ion for everyone that gets there.


... sounds like a v= ery good project! :-)
--e89a8f642bd858c19a052ae0ad0b-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 07 15:04:25 2016 Received: (at 22546-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Feb 2016 20:04:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37522 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aSVZI-0006yw-NU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2016 15:04:24 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:51543) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aSVZH-0006yh-6t for 22546-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2016 15:04:23 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aSVZ6-00083j-Rg for 22546-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2016 15:04:17 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:43699) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aSVZ6-00083f-Ny; Sun, 07 Feb 2016 15:04:12 -0500 Received: from reverse-83.fdn.fr ([80.67.176.83]:48888 helo=pluto) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aSVZ5-0007Yk-Tb; Sun, 07 Feb 2016 15:04:12 -0500 From: ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?=) To: Robin Vobruba Subject: Re: bug#22546: Download-Page is "hiding" what the options actually are References: X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 19 =?utf-8?Q?Pluvi=C3=B4se?= an 224 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x3D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2016 21:04:09 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Robin Vobruba's message of "Wed, 3 Feb 2016 18:09:12 +0100") Message-ID: <877figuw1y.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22546-done Cc: 22546-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) Robin Vobruba skribis: > Being new to Guix, i went to the Download page: > https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/download/ > > immediately saw the 3 big options > read their title/names > was confused what the difference might be between "GuixSD" and "Guix Bina= ry" > could not find anything inside these 3 option's boxes that would help me > read the text below them > read the text above them > finally understood that the first option is the OS, and the second is only > the packag-manager I think I=E2=80=99ll have to disagree. :-) For each option there=E2=80=99s a line right below the title saying what th= is is. I=E2=80=99m no expert in =E2=80=9Cinformation architecture=E2=80=9D bu= t I=E2=80=99m under the impression that there=E2=80=99s little margin for improvement. More importantly, I think that someone who cannot be bothered to read this will not install the thing at all since installing requires you to read the much longer installation instructions. Of course we want them to be as small as possible, but I don=E2=80=99t think that=E2=80=99ll be a = single line anytime soon. I hope this makes sense! Thanks for your feedback, Ludo=E2=80=99. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 07 18:30:31 2016 Received: (at 22546) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Feb 2016 23:30:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37699 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aSYmk-0006eF-Pu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2016 18:30:30 -0500 Received: from latitanza.investici.org ([82.94.249.234]:53063) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aSYmj-0006e6-77 for 22546@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2016 18:30:29 -0500 Received: from [82.94.249.234] (latitanza [82.94.249.234]) (Authenticated sender: niasterisk@grrlz.net) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DD481202A0; Sun, 7 Feb 2016 23:30:27 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=grrlz.net; s=stigmate; t=1454887827; bh=bWuLF+wOMY2x6AHoKO7vWKCI5pFrLb6AXTP6lnhZPLc=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=H3kUPyrgpKpn7Zy+c0ETlk/p72CZA4qqckIOvGSpDnbbm+0NCAkKpeDc2yz0AObY9 25Fppw7qpIfWjOpIogsqYuFtTO390vYEGmFMfu42fIJ6d3jU53kYk6YVjkGjAZ0vuM D49qGLn8a9OZ9vKujM8cyOXEU09h78780QNWW6xA= From: Nils Gillmann To: 22546@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#22546: Download-Page is "hiding" what the options actually are References: <877figuw1y.fsf@gnu.org> X-NoArchive: Yes X-SmashTheSurveilanceState: Yes Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2016 00:30:21 +0100 In-Reply-To: <877figuw1y.fsf@gnu.org> ("Ludovic \=\?utf-8\?Q\?Court\=C3\=A8s\=22'\?\= \=\?utf-8\?Q\?s\?\= message of "Sun, 07 Feb 2016 21:04:09 +0100") Message-ID: <87k2mgumia.fsf@grrlz.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22546 Cc: ludo@gnu.org, mls.robin.vobruba@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Court=C3=A8s) writes: > Robin Vobruba skribis: > >> Being new to Guix, i went to the Download page: >> https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/download/ >> >> immediately saw the 3 big options >> read their title/names >> was confused what the difference might be between "GuixSD" and "Guix Bin= ary" >> could not find anything inside these 3 option's boxes that would help me >> read the text below them >> read the text above them >> finally understood that the first option is the OS, and the second is on= ly >> the packag-manager > > I think I=E2=80=99ll have to disagree. :-) > > For each option there=E2=80=99s a line right below the title saying what = this > is. I=E2=80=99m no expert in =E2=80=9Cinformation architecture=E2=80=9D = but I=E2=80=99m under the > impression that there=E2=80=99s little margin for improvement. > SD has a different Symbol than Guix, which works okay for me with no colorblindness and no other visual problems. But maybe it could help to highlight the 'System Distribution' and to visually (with colors in accordance to w3 disability standards) set apart GUIX from GUIXSD boxes? Or, like fr example TAILS who now have some kind of questionaire tour to the right download. There are some things I am collection thoughts on, where the actual output of them is slowed down by working on too many texts at the same time. > More importantly, I think that someone who cannot be bothered to read > this will not install the thing at all since installing requires you to > read the much longer installation instructions. Of course we want them > to be as small as possible, but I don=E2=80=99t think that=E2=80=99ll be = a single line > anytime soon. > > I hope this makes sense! > > Thanks for your feedback, > Ludo=E2=80=99. > > > --=20 ng From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 08 04:10:54 2016 Received: (at 22546) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Feb 2016 09:10:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37955 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aShqQ-0001za-Ls for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2016 04:10:54 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:46319) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aShqP-0001zN-3r for 22546@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2016 04:10:53 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aShqI-0003ux-Fw for 22546@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2016 04:10:47 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:51152) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aShqA-0003pI-Mz; Mon, 08 Feb 2016 04:10:38 -0500 Received: from mek33-4-82-236-46-88.fbx.proxad.net ([82.236.46.88]:35166 helo=godel) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aShq9-0007eW-QC; Mon, 08 Feb 2016 04:10:38 -0500 From: Mathieu Lirzin To: Robin Vobruba Subject: Re: bug#22546: Download-Page is "hiding" what the options actually are References: Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2016 10:10:35 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Robin Vobruba's message of "Wed, 3 Feb 2016 18:09:12 +0100") Message-ID: <87fux3o9dg.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22546 Cc: ludo@gnu.org, 22546@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) Robin Vobruba writes: > Being new to Guix, i went to the Download page: > https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/download/ > > immediately saw the 3 big options > read their title/names > was confused what the difference might be between "GuixSD" and "Guix > Binary" > could not find anything inside these 3 option's boxes that would help > me > read the text below them > read the text above them > finally understood that the first option is the OS, and the second is > only the packag-manager > > i think that the first option should have a title saying "Operating > System install medium" or the like, and the second "Package-Manager > for arbitrary Linux". > nobody is going to read a small, regular text formatted, two lines > long paragraph on a download page, but this is very crucial > information for everyone that gets there. I would not say that the options are hidden, however I agree that there is room for improving the clarity of the different possible choices. For example, by having more distinctive graphics for the different options. OTOH, I don't think this is a priority giving the current state of Guix development. As Ludo said, Guix and GuixSD are relatively involving in regards of users' attention and patience, by requiring reading some documentation. Maybe a small improvement could be to emphasize the terms =E2=80=9CGNU/Linux distribution=E2=80=9D and/or =E2=80=9Coperating system=E2=80=9D for GuixSD. What about replacing these? --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- As of version 0.9.0, the Guix System Distribution can be installed... --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- =E2=80=9CAs of version 0.9.0, the Guix System Distribution (GuixSD) is an incarnation of the GNU operating system which can be installed...=E2=80=9D --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- USB installer of the Guix System Distribution. --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- =E2=80=9CUSB installer of the GNU/Linux Guix System Distribution.=E2=80=9D Ludo: is the terminology correct? are these changes acceptable? -- Mathieu Lirzin From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 08 04:46:50 2016 Received: (at 22546) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Feb 2016 09:46:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37980 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aSiPC-0002oo-0c for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2016 04:46:50 -0500 Received: from mail-io0-f178.google.com ([209.85.223.178]:36313) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aSiPA-0002oX-1C for 22546@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2016 04:46:48 -0500 Received: by mail-io0-f178.google.com with SMTP id g73so189341901ioe.3 for <22546@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 08 Feb 2016 01:46:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=+8tkaci4eGV2N5B5Ivj0yAMZZhAVEgLUChElHW+NNYQ=; b=IVSHwmTeQXYmql8GpShCI1OP+uPsCMH3gsQQ3r+2QqeKlNdkv8rZIh/lpZLZK+8ci/ l3zVbQJEYQgJRnB+hZpTfxiGZrFR11Y1hbHtmuU9hRYbuXFtDeYHbJZYBuxmkiWr9gmx ayX+hLMtJBhQwjYN+kBGgaYUEusFQvkBlCNNPMSMZKl+SI2PXW2iKp6jRnF0YkmqJL4H b1wSZKxSldTLdqNTlbexRfiBStDw0hI0QVbohfSqdNUiroFxI0K4omTs2UWfCCEP7RM8 tk/qqUxu3DRD+Jo0JxaKY9R60r37w+m4oY+Y9zMhT9ziw1er81SS5kTiVYdSIbQ+ZRZa 7OoQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=+8tkaci4eGV2N5B5Ivj0yAMZZhAVEgLUChElHW+NNYQ=; b=SJoqMxBwG7lGqaWSlN/3lZL3x7YWISNKv/Q4AwB3UmpkQo0wqukbv6uZP4HikLeH1C IOYkEHNZ83q4d/vcNS7fgLiVbaLbOXXPQKTu8fz1aakWyfvn01x6lBnZKsg/qyFz+1Fm Yk84u09dul1xK+n0b1U9r4PFWOKrpN8w3LiwYXT2fSrziilnTahZkkJGhKNVzYcr/0OE uPOThpf0E25uytL9jSdmE9bCr2f+BOnlXyDcjQW4gaV1/kNLPhz9dg2QR9JuIf137D4a cf83vbKIOdY8bmvjh1zm/P3LPAcz0y3wXRDHg/EEiV/zp1XDubEqi/vyFgHlG2MoS+OS FkrA== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOS33zcpRLQ/fpYiAZbEd6LbDHRqS9NjgRX8fz8Amo3BYfCn17hAIAdPfH1es8rQt3u10N01Xo5SIfpWng== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.15.223 with SMTP id 92mr26108974iop.3.1454924802469; Mon, 08 Feb 2016 01:46:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.50.73.231 with HTTP; Mon, 8 Feb 2016 01:46:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87fux3o9dg.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87fux3o9dg.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 10:46:42 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#22546: Download-Page is "hiding" what the options actually are From: Robin Vobruba To: Mathieu Lirzin Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113ff31806bdac052b3f1406 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22546 Cc: ludo@gnu.org, 22546@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) --001a113ff31806bdac052b3f1406 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable the thing is, if one is not from this community (or a similar one), one will not know what "System Distribution" means. it is a very abstract term, and can mean anything. it is not self explanatory, and while "Operating System" might not be as exact a description as SD (not that i would know, but i imagine so, as you have chosen the later), it is a term that surely everyone will know that comes to this page, and that is good enough for most people, especially if it does not replace, but rather augment "System Distribution", as a descriptive addition to the box. people not reading bigger junks of text on a download page does not mean they will be unable to follow a lengthy description for the installation. the download page is there to download, not inform the user; click, click, done! that is its purpose, and to give the required information to choose what to download in as little time as possible. there are 3 choices. surely it is nor necessary to read a 2 line text to be able to choose. 2016-02-08 10:10 GMT+01:00 Mathieu Lirzin : > Robin Vobruba writes: > > > Being new to Guix, i went to the Download page: > > https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/download/ > > > > immediately saw the 3 big options > > read their title/names > > was confused what the difference might be between "GuixSD" and "Guix > > Binary" > > could not find anything inside these 3 option's boxes that would help > > me > > read the text below them > > read the text above them > > finally understood that the first option is the OS, and the second is > > only the packag-manager > > > > i think that the first option should have a title saying "Operating > > System install medium" or the like, and the second "Package-Manager > > for arbitrary Linux". > > nobody is going to read a small, regular text formatted, two lines > > long paragraph on a download page, but this is very crucial > > information for everyone that gets there. > > I would not say that the options are hidden, however I agree that there > is room for improving the clarity of the different possible choices. > For example, by having more distinctive graphics for the different > options. OTOH, I don't think this is a priority giving the current > state of Guix development. As Ludo said, Guix and GuixSD are relatively > involving in regards of users' attention and patience, by requiring > reading some documentation. > > Maybe a small improvement could be to emphasize the terms =E2=80=9CGNU/Li= nux > distribution=E2=80=9D and/or =E2=80=9Coperating system=E2=80=9D for GuixS= D. > > What about replacing these? > > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > As of version 0.9.0, the Guix System Distribution can be installed... > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > > =E2=80=9CAs of version 0.9.0, the Guix System Distribution (GuixSD) is = an > incarnation of the GNU operating system which can be installed...=E2=80= =9D > > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > USB installer of the Guix System Distribution. > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > > =E2=80=9CUSB installer of the GNU/Linux Guix System Distribution.=E2=80= =9D > > > Ludo: is the terminology correct? are these changes acceptable? > > -- > Mathieu Lirzin > --001a113ff31806bdac052b3f1406 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
the thing is, if one is not from this community = (or a similar one), one will not know what "System Distribution" = means. it is a very abstract term, and can mean anything. it is not self ex= planatory, and while "Operating System" might not be as exact a d= escription as SD (not that i would know, but i imagine so, as you have chos= en the later), it is a term that surely everyone will know that comes to th= is page, and that is good enough for most people, especially if it does not= replace, but rather augment "System Distribution", as a descript= ive addition to the box.
people not reading bigger junks of text o= n a download page does not mean they will be unable to follow a lengthy des= cription for the installation. the download page is there to download, not = inform the user; click, click, done! that is its purpose, and to give the r= equired information to choose what to download in as little time as possibl= e. there are 3 choices. surely it is nor necessary to read a 2 line text to= be able to choose.


2016-02-08 10:10 GMT+01:00 Mathieu Lirzin <mthl@gnu.org>:
=
Robin Vobruba <mls.robin.vobruba@gmail.com>= writes:

> Being new to Guix, i went to the Download page:
> https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/download/
>
> immediately saw the 3 big options
> read their title/names
> was confused what the difference might be between "GuixSD" a= nd "Guix
> Binary"
> could not find anything inside these 3 option's boxes that would h= elp
> me
> read the text below them
> read the text above them
> finally understood that the first option is the OS, and the second is<= br> > only the packag-manager
>
> i think that the first option should have a title saying "= Operating
> System install medium" or the like, and the second "Package-= Manager
> for arbitrary Linux".
> nobody is going to read a small, regular text formatted, two lines
> long paragraph on a download page, but this is very crucial
> information for everyone that gets there.

I would not say that the options are hidden, however I agree that there
is room for improving the clarity of the different possible choices.
For example, by having more distinctive graphics for the different
options.=C2=A0 OTOH, I don't think this is a priority giving the curren= t
state of Guix development.=C2=A0 As Ludo said, Guix and GuixSD are relative= ly
involving in regards of users' attention and patience, by requiring
reading some documentation.

Maybe a small improvement could be to emphasize the terms =E2=80=9CGNU/Linu= x
distribution=E2=80=9D and/or =E2=80=9Coperating system=E2=80=9D for GuixSD.=

What about replacing these?

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
As of version 0.9.0, the Guix System Distribution can be installed...
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

=C2=A0 =E2=80=9CAs of version 0.9.0, the Guix System Distribution (GuixSD) = is an
=C2=A0 incarnation of the GNU operating system which can be installed...=E2= =80=9D

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
USB installer of the Guix System Distribution.
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

=C2=A0 =E2=80=9CUSB installer of the GNU/Linux Guix System Distribution.=E2= =80=9D


Ludo: is the terminology correct?=C2=A0 are these changes acceptable?

--
Mathieu Lirzin

--001a113ff31806bdac052b3f1406-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 08 09:07:00 2016 Received: (at 22546) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Feb 2016 14:07:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38175 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aSmSy-000245-1x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2016 09:07:00 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:58740) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aSmSw-00023s-IP for 22546@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2016 09:06:58 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aSmSm-0002Hb-6O for 22546@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2016 09:06:53 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:57806) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aSmSm-0002HX-3T; Mon, 08 Feb 2016 09:06:48 -0500 Received: from pluto.bordeaux.inria.fr ([193.50.110.57]:48496 helo=pluto) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aSmSl-0003Fq-5N; Mon, 08 Feb 2016 09:06:47 -0500 From: ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?=) To: Mathieu Lirzin Subject: Re: bug#22546: Download-Page is "hiding" what the options actually are References: <87fux3o9dg.fsf@gnu.org> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 20 =?utf-8?Q?Pluvi=C3=B4se?= an 224 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x3D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2016 15:06:44 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87fux3o9dg.fsf@gnu.org> (Mathieu Lirzin's message of "Mon, 08 Feb 2016 10:10:35 +0100") Message-ID: <87y4avgutn.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22546 Cc: 22546@debbugs.gnu.org, Robin Vobruba X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) Mathieu Lirzin skribis: > What about replacing these? > > As of version 0.9.0, the Guix System Distribution can be installed... > > =E2=80=9CAs of version 0.9.0, the Guix System Distribution (GuixSD) is = an > incarnation of the GNU operating system which can be installed...=E2=80= =9D > > USB installer of the Guix System Distribution. > > =E2=80=9CUSB installer of the GNU/Linux Guix System Distribution.=E2=80= =9D Sounds good to me, and hopefully clearer indeed. Feel free to push. Thank you, Ludo=E2=80=99. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 15 11:54:17 2016 Received: (at 22546) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Feb 2016 16:54:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40371 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aVMPh-00049Q-G3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2016 11:54:17 -0500 Received: from mail-qg0-f48.google.com ([209.85.192.48]:33822) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aVMPf-00049D-TN for 22546@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2016 11:54:16 -0500 Received: by mail-qg0-f48.google.com with SMTP id b67so114434281qgb.1 for <22546@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 15 Feb 2016 08:54:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=OKte42XKDycYPxAUGE/Q2PwG0pKw3JeZ+wCILoltUrE=; b=nOS/41gW3qPlbRnDuC7BmJaNpkY+i9G1rhAeLGrusulQSmOm2qJ2rbgYkXh+t7PgYA jiPAXX77oYV8am0ec+8CkY15aHYuZopERHFpv0ldHVbWD4t4cBYGEhPD18qCBaCUstxQ cmKtg8N6pGVgX49EUV0tKaDeq+G1jMyyIy5yVAHqj70SOS5Pz3e/Ix/7dFQHPgre1bXK X3cRA8DDCXL7Znqs/OsJ5/oa5wQ5w7TDoruzOuO2dGV5Ig/m6ioqINFpE2yUooUkX7c1 bpoluOfIKpDO0WHoeBe5SBOmqPOSmtxamqpG1Ersw2Wa8y9p+mF0i1tk6GHE9OSB42TI 731A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=OKte42XKDycYPxAUGE/Q2PwG0pKw3JeZ+wCILoltUrE=; b=Ze9INeDvtsxSb3MF2v8/ZOym0SJn6k/KGtJVaFV4G3Io8FRjMiqqsEdSJ+auxPLkyC FdphaqG4xaZ7ywWFdr6P2Bjxsn8pI17/hSt2xYCTGwwmavMgH59D2Vo+9fWDVviOePVI n2vTwAbFgyOVkutG7chfbRpb+V2qcK4xWSe0/OyCaqnxn7DJAS2i778blwgzGdWVCeCa rk1T3BJyj2UsLDIL5Nka82Ty7EvJ91vexU64FFOw/e2AQkwUAFPN6xZv+D5OAYGlJtDI kEzSZYVyYkdEugFo+rMG2hIoEYM1TpdJvfMNFiRrWSipw9nzzHUBr3z5DKV/avccQmWI in0Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOT08FztgLbZH6R3HdNCVGPcBHMjFx6FIJ9Sopqe4oTlf6Y1KUmiUVQt5gCRJLnCPA== X-Received: by 10.141.3.86 with SMTP id f83mr22800054qhd.98.1455555250308; Mon, 15 Feb 2016 08:54:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from g1 (c-73-167-118-254.hsd1.ma.comcast.net. [73.167.118.254]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o75sm11377912qgd.12.2016.02.15.08.54.09 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 15 Feb 2016 08:54:09 -0800 (PST) From: myglc2 To: 22546@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#22546: Download-Page is "hiding" what the options actually are References: <877figuw1y.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 11:54:35 -0500 In-Reply-To: <877figuw1y.fsf@gnu.org> ("Ludovic \=\?utf-8\?Q\?Court\=C3\=A8s\=22'\?\= \=\?utf-8\?Q\?s\?\= message of "Sun, 07 Feb 2016 21:04:09 +0100") Message-ID: <877fi56his.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22546 Cc: ludo@gnu.org, mls.robin.vobruba@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Court=C3=A8s) writes: > Robin Vobruba skribis: > >> Being new to Guix, i went to the Download page: >> https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/download/ >> >> immediately saw the 3 big options >> read their title/names >> was confused what the difference might be between "GuixSD" and "Guix Bin= ary" >> could not find anything inside these 3 option's boxes that would help me >> read the text below them >> read the text above them >> finally understood that the first option is the OS, and the second is on= ly >> the packag-manager > > I think I=E2=80=99ll have to disagree. :-) > > For each option there=E2=80=99s a line right below the title saying what = this > is. I=E2=80=99m no expert in =E2=80=9Cinformation architecture=E2=80=9D = but I=E2=80=99m under the > impression that there=E2=80=99s little margin for improvement. You are too close to Guix to appreciate this user's confusion. > More importantly, I think that someone who cannot be bothered to read > this will not install the thing at all since installing requires you to > read the much longer installation instructions. It is a mistake to think this way.=20 During the first few moments of checking out Guix a user is looking for clues about how well "wrapped" it is. She is "using" your web site. If the experience of using your web site is difficult it signals that the software is difficult. Is this what you want? > Of course we want them to be as small as possible, but I don=E2=80=99t th= ink > that=E2=80=99ll be a single line anytime soon. The Guix web page and doc are very beautiful and detailed. But they do not clearly convey the relationship between Guix and GuixSD. This is why you have had to use so many puzzeling words on the download page. I have drawn two diagrams that illustrate and address this issue. They are posted it on gmane.comp.gnu.guix.devel under the subject 'Guix vs GuixSD'. I suggest that you discuss the diagrams and agree on a top-level diagram that explains the Guix-verse. Once you have that, you can use that diagram on the download page to make download choices easy. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 15 17:03:16 2016 Received: (at 22546) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Feb 2016 22:03:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40528 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aVREh-0004wR-Sz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2016 17:03:16 -0500 Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.26]:50498) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aVREg-0004wJ-3o for 22546@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2016 17:03:14 -0500 Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal [10.202.2.42]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id DED4820424 for <22546@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 15 Feb 2016 17:03:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from frontend2 ([10.202.2.161]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 15 Feb 2016 17:03:13 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=famulari.name; h= cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-sasl-enc :x-sasl-enc; s=mesmtp; bh=69hugkTattYxxwnRsfhRcCseuM4=; b=t4USW6 41VEgXIP38tclARoCaQKqwI6WR21BDlBZD+Ly3lirg3+zM1FX+QniNytW+BdxrRN VxENy6FyT41G8CsLGnGANxqrrxhhvPLMb3Iz3x3L4ou6+UPSFogXeP7m6Fz/DfB2 ovazsP1Ef/3E0yEa8NjEWRykrQywugjf6gM60= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s=smtpout; bh=69hugkTattYxxwn RsfhRcCseuM4=; b=TfQYNfHUMMI/9aWXSbC8jTQsJwytw+/q01bgcyVz1tVjwGq fkmMl+Dr1qOO2JDmwiwJNuVwYgcGpd03OrR6flSSSWBrESaV9OkdLP/+/qfsMO9I 9pUeXvi7BymxPgd+lBSGjyoer3h0T5K0Da94JITl1HkHBhXLhYgxrgXxQCso= X-Sasl-enc: d+41W9hkp3bsVSey2aJXGApDa96m4KM45Tvtf/n7Hg+L 1455573793 Received: from localhost (c-69-249-5-231.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [69.249.5.231]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 9D77E680087; Mon, 15 Feb 2016 17:03:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 17:03:20 -0500 From: Leo Famulari To: myglc2 Subject: Re: bug#22546: Download-Page is "hiding" what the options actually are Message-ID: <20160215220320.GA22965@jasmine> References: <877figuw1y.fsf@gnu.org> <877fi56his.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <877fi56his.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22546 Cc: 22546@debbugs.gnu.org, mls.robin.vobruba@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:54:35AM -0500, myglc2 wrote: > ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) writes: > > > Robin Vobruba skribis: > > > >> Being new to Guix, i went to the Download page: > >> https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/download/ > >> > >> immediately saw the 3 big options > >> read their title/names > >> was confused what the difference might be between "GuixSD" and "Guix Binary" > >> could not find anything inside these 3 option's boxes that would help me > >> read the text below them > >> read the text above them > >> finally understood that the first option is the OS, and the second is only > >> the packag-manager > > > > I think I’ll have to disagree. :-) > > > > For each option there’s a line right below the title saying what this > > is. I’m no expert in “information architecture” but I’m under the > > impression that there’s little margin for improvement. > > You are too close to Guix to appreciate this user's confusion. This is an important point. It's hard to go back and re-inhabit the beginner's mind. But new users do skim. We have to decide what level of skimming we are willing to "support". Sometimes I can tell on #guix that users have not even glanced at the manual. From unknown Tue Jun 24 05:10:20 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 11:24:03 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator