GNU bug report logs - #2235
22.2.1 emacs -Q should not turn on font-lock

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Message #5 received at submit <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Jari Aalto <jari.aalto <at> cante.net>
To: Emacs bug BTS <submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Subject: 22.2.1 emacs -Q should not turn on font-lock
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 12:53:59 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Doing a quick bare bones editing of file:

  emacs -Q  README

On a white terminal[1], the results are unreadable. Please deactivate
font-lock when --no-site-file (as in -Q) option is specified.

[1] Debian; mrxvt 0.5.3-2 terminal
http://packages.debian.org/mrxvt

[picture.png (image/png, attachment)]

Message #10 received at submit <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman <at> gmail.com>
To: Jari Aalto <jari.aalto <at> cante.net>, 2235 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Cc: Emacs bug BTS <submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Subject: Re: bug#2235: 22.2.1 emacs -Q should not turn on font-lock
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 12:15:44 +0100

On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 11:53 AM, Jari Aalto <jari.aalto <at> cante.net> wrote:
>  emacs -Q  README
>
> On a white terminal[1], the results are unreadable. Please deactivate
> font-lock when --no-site-file (as in -Q) option is specified.

Seems to me like it is better to fix the colors used.

Message #20 received at 2235 <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Jari Aalto <jari.aalto <at> cante.net>
To: Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 2235 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#2235: 22.2.1 emacs -Q should not turn on font-lock
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 15:32:59 +0200

Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman <at> gmail.com> writes:

> On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 11:53 AM, Jari Aalto <jari.aalto <at> cante.net> wrote:
>
>>  emacs -Q  README
>>
>> On a white terminal[1], the results are unreadable. Please deactivate
>> font-lock when --no-site-file (as in -Q) option is specified.
>
> Seems to me like it is better to fix the colors used.

That's good, but is only secondary problem.

Please refrain from turning on additional features when "bare bones"
(-Q) program behavior is asked.

Jari

Message #25 received at 2235 <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman <at> gmail.com>
To: Jari Aalto <jari.aalto <at> cante.net>
Cc: 2235 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#2235: 22.2.1 emacs -Q should not turn on font-lock
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 14:44:28 +0100

On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 2:32 PM, Jari Aalto <jari.aalto <at> cante.net> wrote:
> Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 11:53 AM, Jari Aalto <jari.aalto <at> cante.net> wrote:
>>
>>>  emacs -Q  README
>>>
>>> On a white terminal[1], the results are unreadable. Please deactivate
>>> font-lock when --no-site-file (as in -Q) option is specified.
>>
>> Seems to me like it is better to fix the colors used.
>
> That's good, but is only secondary problem.
>
> Please refrain from turning on additional features when "bare bones"
> (-Q) program behavior is asked.

Font lock mode is on by default since Emacs 22.

If you want "bare bones" you can perhaps use fundamental-mode in Emacs.

Message #30 received at 2235 <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Jari Aalto <jari.aalto <at> cante.net>
To: Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 2235 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#2235: 22.2.1 emacs -Q should not turn on font-lock
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 15:51:29 +0200

Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman <at> gmail.com> writes:

> On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 2:32 PM, Jari Aalto <jari.aalto <at> cante.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  emacs -Q  README
>>>>
>>>> On a white terminal[1], the results are unreadable. Please deactivate
>>>> font-lock when --no-site-file (as in -Q) option is specified.
>>>
>>> Seems to me like it is better to fix the colors used.
>>
>> That's good, but is only secondary problem.
>>
>> Please refrain from turning on additional features when "bare bones"
>> (-Q) program behavior is asked.
>
> Font lock mode is on by default since Emacs 22.

"By default" I read it "as programs sarts without any other options".

I think it is reasonable to expect that features are reduced, like
font-lock, with option "-Q" to give "bare bones" program start.

Jari

Message #35 received at 2235 <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Chong Yidong <cyd <at> stupidchicken.com>
To: Jari Aalto <jari.aalto <at> cante.net>
Cc: 2235 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re:  bug#2235: 22.2.1 emacs -Q should not turn on font-lock
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 10:40:48 -0500

> Please refrain from turning on additional features when "bare bones"
> (-Q) program behavior is asked.

No, thanks.  The -Q option is largely intended for debugging, and it is
unhelpful to turn off font-lock for that purpose.  If the colors on a
white terminal are unreadable, we should fix them everywhere, not just
in -Q.

In the screenshot you posted, the main problem I see is the use of light
cyan for font-lock-keyword-face.  What we could do is remove the
`:weight bold' attribute in the 8-color-terminal definition of
font-lock-keyword-face.

Message #40 received at submit <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Kevin Rodgers <kevin.d.rodgers <at> gmail.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#2235: 22.2.1 emacs -Q should not turn on font-lock
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 09:16:52 -0700

Jari Aalto wrote:
> Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman <at> gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 2:32 PM, Jari Aalto <jari.aalto <at> cante.net> wrote:
>>>>>  emacs -Q  README
>>>>>
>>>>> On a white terminal[1], the results are unreadable. Please deactivate
>>>>> font-lock when --no-site-file (as in -Q) option is specified.
>>>> Seems to me like it is better to fix the colors used.
>>> That's good, but is only secondary problem.
>>>
>>> Please refrain from turning on additional features when "bare bones"
>>> (-Q) program behavior is asked.
>> Font lock mode is on by default since Emacs 22.
> 
> "By default" I read it "as programs sarts without any other options".

Think of it as "without any customizations".

> I think it is reasonable to expect that features are reduced, like
> font-lock, with option "-Q" to give "bare bones" program start.

-- 
Kevin Rodgers
Denver, Colorado, USA

Message #45 received at 2235 <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Jari Aalto <jari.aalto <at> cante.net>
To: Chong Yidong <cyd <at> stupidchicken.com>
Cc: 2235 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#2235: 22.2.1 emacs -Q should not turn on font-lock
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 19:32:43 +0200

Chong Yidong <cyd <at> stupidchicken.com> writes:

>> Please refrain from turning on additional features when "bare bones"
>> (-Q) program behavior is asked.
>
> No, thanks.  The -Q option is largely intended for debugging

Not just debugging. When other programs call for $EDITOR, the typical
value is for emacs users is:

    EDITOR="emacs -Q -nw"

beacuse most want the editor to start in these cases as fast as
possible.

> If the colors on a white terminal are unreadable, we should fix them
> everywhere, not just in -Q.

If the -Q option cannot be changed, please provide separate option which
turns off colors, something like:

  --no-colors

I know it's possiblt to:

   --eval '(global-font-lock-mode -1)'

But I'd call that 'workaround', considering:

1)  Some programs that parse EDITOR, can't handle embedded quotes and
    embedded spaces  correctly.
2)  It calls for understanding more lisp than needed for average Joe
3)  The short, self documenting option "--no-colors" and some suitable
    short option is easier to write.

Jari

Message #50 received at 2235 <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Jari Aalto <jari.aalto <at> cante.net>, 2235 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Cc: cyd <at> stupidchicken.com
Subject: Re: bug#2235: 22.2.1 emacs -Q should not turn on font-lock
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 21:32:54 +0200

> From: Jari Aalto <jari.aalto <at> cante.net>
> Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 19:32:43 +0200
> Cc: 2235 <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com
> 
> Chong Yidong <cyd <at> stupidchicken.com> writes:
> 
> >> Please refrain from turning on additional features when "bare bones"
> >> (-Q) program behavior is asked.
> >
> > No, thanks.  The -Q option is largely intended for debugging

Indeed.  This is Emacs, not XEmacs: -Q does not mean "bare bones", it
means "without loading any customization files".

> If the -Q option cannot be changed, please provide separate option which
> turns off colors, something like:
> 
>   --no-colors

This is already available, it's called "--color=never".  Although I
don't understand why you think it will load faster than the default
version.  Care to explain? or is this again based on your experience
with XEmacs?

> 1)  Some programs that parse EDITOR, can't handle embedded quotes and
>     embedded spaces  correctly.

Which ones?

> 3)  The short, self documenting option "--no-colors" and some suitable
>     short option is easier to write.

It's only self-documenting if one reads documentation.  But if one
does read documentation, then one would have known about a no less
self-documenting option "--color".

Message #55 received at 2235-done <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
To: Jari Aalto <jari.aalto <at> cante.net>
Cc: 2235-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#2235: 22.2.1 emacs -Q should not turn on font-lock
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 15:24:09 -0500

> Not just debugging. When other programs call for $EDITOR, the typical
> value is for emacs users is:

>     EDITOR="emacs -Q -nw"

> beacuse most want the editor to start in these cases as fast as
> possible.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that the above is typical.
"-Q" didn't exist before Emacs-22, so it must a recent form of
"typical".  If speed is an issue, the recommendation is rather to use
emacsclient, which will work even better in Emacs-23.

The real problem you're experiencing is that Emacs apparently cannot
reliably determine the background color of your terminal (it can do that
for recent `xterm' IIRC), so it might think it's dark whereas your
is light.


        Stefan

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