From unknown Tue Aug 19 01:10:54 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#22314 <22314@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#22314 <22314@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 25.1.50; Document variable `deactivate-mark' in Elisp manual Reply-To: bug#22314 <22314@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2025 08:10:54 +0000 retitle 22314 25.1.50; Document variable `deactivate-mark' in Elisp manual reassign 22314 emacs submitter 22314 Drew Adams severity 22314 wishlist thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 05 13:10:20 2016 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jan 2016 18:10:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39071 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aGW3o-0004mt-HT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2016 13:10:20 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:40240) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aGW3m-0004me-99 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2016 13:10:18 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aGW3g-00042U-9K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2016 13:10:13 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,XPRIO autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:42060) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aGW3g-00042P-6K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2016 13:10:12 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59438) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aGW3f-0006nZ-88 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2016 13:10:12 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aGW3b-00041m-8e for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2016 13:10:11 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:43061) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aGW3b-00041K-2H for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2016 13:10:07 -0500 Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u05IA2uA032424 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2016 18:10:02 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u05IA1wW012433 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2016 18:10:02 GMT Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u05IA1w6021079 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2016 18:10:01 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <88046cae-d0e4-4108-b655-5ed142ea97f7@default> Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 10:10:00 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 25.1.50; Document variable `deactivate-mark' in Elisp manual X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) Subject line says it all. Only the function of the same name is documented. In GNU Emacs 25.1.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2015-12-10 Repository revision: 6148555ee5a3d0139ae517803718b3e0357933c7 Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: 'configure --prefix=3D/c/Devel/emacs/snapshot/trunk --enable-checking=3Dye= s --enable-check-lisp-object-type --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=3D-Og -ggdb3' LDFLAGS=3D-Lc:/Devel/emacs/lib 'CPPFLAGS=3D-DGC_MCHECK=3D1 -Ic:/Devel/emacs/include'' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 05 13:44:19 2016 Received: (at 22314) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jan 2016 18:44:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39114 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aGWah-0005eT-BT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2016 13:44:19 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:49706) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aGWaf-0005eH-Pa for 22314@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2016 13:44:17 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aGWaX-0005Fn-II for 22314@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2016 13:44:12 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:57768) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aGWaX-0005Fj-Ey; Tue, 05 Jan 2016 13:44:09 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4056 helo=HOME-C4E4A596F7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aGWaW-0001kk-8N; Tue, 05 Jan 2016 13:44:09 -0500 Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2016 20:44:14 +0200 Message-Id: <83fuyb50jl.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: <88046cae-d0e4-4108-b655-5ed142ea97f7@default> (message from Drew Adams on Tue, 5 Jan 2016 10:10:00 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: bug#22314: 25.1.50; Document variable `deactivate-mark' in Elisp manual References: <88046cae-d0e4-4108-b655-5ed142ea97f7@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22314 Cc: 22314@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 10:10:00 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > > Subject line says it all. Any special reasons why? We don't necessarily document every variable and every function, only those that are important to Lisp programmers. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 05 14:44:30 2016 Received: (at 22314) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jan 2016 19:44:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39144 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aGXWw-0000J6-Nx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2016 14:44:30 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:22324) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aGXWu-0000Iq-Mz for 22314@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2016 14:44:29 -0500 Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u05JiMwS016393 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Jan 2016 19:44:22 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u05JiLAS025526 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Jan 2016 19:44:22 GMT Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u05JiLUj006906; Tue, 5 Jan 2016 19:44:21 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 11:44:20 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#22314: 25.1.50; Document variable `deactivate-mark' in Elisp manual References: <<88046cae-d0e4-4108-b655-5ed142ea97f7@default>> <<83fuyb50jl.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83fuyb50jl.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22314 Cc: 22314@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > Any special reasons why? We don't necessarily document every variable > and every function, only those that are important to Lisp programmers. A common user question is why the region gets deactivated after the user's command. The common way to prevent this is to do this at the end of the command: (setq deactivate-mark nil) Example user question: http://emacs.stackexchange.com/q/19275/105 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 05 16:08:32 2016 Received: (at 22314) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jan 2016 21:08:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39208 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aGYqG-0002Lg-0K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2016 16:08:32 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:47612) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aGYqE-0002LI-9W for 22314@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2016 16:08:30 -0500 Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u05L8Nxv009494 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Jan 2016 21:08:24 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u05L8NAi010595 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Jan 2016 21:08:23 GMT Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u05L8NgP011232; Tue, 5 Jan 2016 21:08:23 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <2d847088-3f43-4771-9178-4c51081da5d5@default> Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 13:08:22 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: bug#22314: 25.1.50; Document variable `deactivate-mark' in Elisp manual References: <<88046cae-d0e4-4108-b655-5ed142ea97f7@default>> <<83fuyb50jl.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22314 Cc: 22314@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) My bad. It is already documented. I didn't notice it because it is not one of the index entries for `deactivate-mark'. I think it should be. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 08 04:32:55 2016 Received: (at 22314) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jan 2016 09:32:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42253 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aHTPj-0006ya-AT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2016 04:32:55 -0500 Received: from mxin.ulb.ac.be ([164.15.128.112]:9930) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aHTPh-0006yR-E2 for 22314@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2016 04:32:53 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ar0EAFiBj1akD4Xx/2dsb2JhbABeKAECgj6CEIJihXe1TYYPAoFrAQEBAQEBgQuENQEBAwF5BQsIAyElDwEESROIJwi/J4IuAQEBAQYCASCGVoR/iTwFlw2LHYQshyaFY45OZIIRHIFePTSFYQEBAQ Received: from mathsrv4.ulb.ac.be (HELO localhost) ([164.15.133.241]) by smtp.ulb.ac.be with ESMTP; 08 Jan 2016 10:32:51 +0100 From: Nicolas Richard To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#22314: 25.1.50; Document variable `deactivate-mark' in Elisp manual References: <88046cae-d0e4-4108-b655-5ed142ea97f7@default>> <83fuyb50jl.fsf@gnu.org>> <2d847088-3f43-4771-9178-4c51081da5d5@default> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2016 10:32:54 +0100 In-Reply-To: <2d847088-3f43-4771-9178-4c51081da5d5@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 5 Jan 2016 13:08:22 -0800 (PST)") Message-ID: <87si284drt.fsf@ulb.ac.be> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22314 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 22314@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) Drew Adams writes: > My bad. It is already documented. I didn't notice it because > it is not one of the index entries for `deactivate-mark'. > I think it should be. In a build from mid-december, doing emacs -Q --eval '(info "elisp")' then hitting 'i deactivate-mark RET' I'm left at the description of deactivate-mark as a variable. Hitting ',' (as suggested in echo area) brings me to the description of deactivate-mark as a function, then the description of deactivate-mark-hook. -- Nicolas Richard From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 08 05:49:14 2016 Received: (at 22314) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jan 2016 10:49:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42312 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aHUba-0000Nx-3c for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2016 05:49:14 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:60540) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aHUbY-0000Nk-Mu for 22314@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2016 05:49:12 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aHUbP-0003X1-62 for 22314@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2016 05:49:07 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:41464) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aHUbP-0003Wx-2c; Fri, 08 Jan 2016 05:49:03 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1264 helo=HOME-C4E4A596F7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aHUbO-0005wB-E0; Fri, 08 Jan 2016 05:49:02 -0500 Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2016 12:49:00 +0200 Message-Id: <83oacwpcrn.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: <2d847088-3f43-4771-9178-4c51081da5d5@default> (message from Drew Adams on Tue, 5 Jan 2016 13:08:22 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: bug#22314: 25.1.50; Document variable `deactivate-mark' in Elisp manual References: <<88046cae-d0e4-4108-b655-5ed142ea97f7@default>> <<83fuyb50jl.fsf@gnu.org>> <2d847088-3f43-4771-9178-4c51081da5d5@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22314 Cc: 22314@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 13:08:22 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 22314@debbugs.gnu.org > > My bad. It is already documented. I didn't notice it because > it is not one of the index entries for `deactivate-mark'. > I think it should be. They are both indexed, AFAICS. Why did you think the variable isn't? The descriptions appear next to each other, so a single index entry for both seems like TRT. Am I missing something? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 08 10:00:41 2016 Received: (at 22314) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jan 2016 15:00:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43314 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aHYWv-0001Yl-Ah for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2016 10:00:41 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:48194) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aHYWs-0001YW-Re for 22314@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2016 10:00:39 -0500 Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u08F0UQX005294 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Jan 2016 15:00:32 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u08F0UKQ031006 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Jan 2016 15:00:30 GMT Received: from abhmp0009.oracle.com (abhmp0009.oracle.com [141.146.116.15]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u08F0Tq5015052; Fri, 8 Jan 2016 15:00:30 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 07:00:28 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: bug#22314: 25.1.50; Document variable `deactivate-mark' in Elisp manual References: <<<88046cae-d0e4-4108-b655-5ed142ea97f7@default>>> <<<83fuyb50jl.fsf@gnu.org>>> <> <<2d847088-3f43-4771-9178-4c51081da5d5@default>> <<83oacwpcrn.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83oacwpcrn.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22314 Cc: 22314@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > > My bad. It is already documented. I didn't notice it because > > it is not one of the index entries for `deactivate-mark'. > > I think it should be. >=20 > They are both indexed, AFAICS. Why did you think the variable > isn't? > The descriptions appear next to each other, so a single index entry > for both seems like TRT. Am I missing something? I think you are. At least for me, with the latest Emacs 25 snapshot I have (2015/12/10), `i deactivate-mark' shows two index entries, and `,' bounces between them. They are: (1) deactivate-mark, the function, and (2) deactivate-mark-hook, a variable. Variable `deactivate-mark' is not one of them. Do you really see something different? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 08 14:09:10 2016 Received: (at 22314) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jan 2016 19:09:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43407 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aHcPO-0007RM-4q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2016 14:09:10 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:57478) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aHcPM-0007RA-NL for 22314@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2016 14:09:08 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aHcPD-0005cy-4m for 22314@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2016 14:09:03 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:34448) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aHcPD-0005cu-1o; Fri, 08 Jan 2016 14:08:59 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1598 helo=HOME-C4E4A596F7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aHcPB-0007af-E7; Fri, 08 Jan 2016 14:08:58 -0500 Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2016 21:08:55 +0200 Message-Id: <8337u7q46w.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: (message from Drew Adams on Fri, 8 Jan 2016 07:00:28 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: bug#22314: 25.1.50; Document variable `deactivate-mark' in Elisp manual References: <<<88046cae-d0e4-4108-b655-5ed142ea97f7@default>>> <<<83fuyb50jl.fsf@gnu.org>>> <> <<2d847088-3f43-4771-9178-4c51081da5d5@default>> <<83oacwpcrn.fsf@gnu.org>> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22314 Cc: 22314@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 07:00:28 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 22314@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > My bad. It is already documented. I didn't notice it because > > > it is not one of the index entries for `deactivate-mark'. > > > I think it should be. > > > > They are both indexed, AFAICS. Why did you think the variable > > isn't? > > The descriptions appear next to each other, so a single index entry > > for both seems like TRT. Am I missing something? > > I think you are. At least for me, with the latest Emacs 25 > snapshot I have (2015/12/10), `i deactivate-mark' shows two > index entries, and `,' bounces between them. They are: > (1) deactivate-mark, the function, and (2) deactivate-mark-hook, > a variable. Variable `deactivate-mark' is not one of them. > > Do you really see something different? I see the same, but I don't understand why that is a problem. The function and the variable are described one after the other, and 'i' puts you on the first of them with the second clearly visible below. How is that a problem? And how is it worse than having 2 identical index entries instead, which point each one to a place several lines apart? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 08 16:29:53 2016 Received: (at 22314) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jan 2016 21:29:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43462 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aHebY-0003zP-Tu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2016 16:29:53 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:35748) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aHebX-0003zC-7d for 22314@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2016 16:29:51 -0500 Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u08LTieR001298 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Jan 2016 21:29:45 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u08LThwV004227 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Jan 2016 21:29:44 GMT Received: from abhmp0019.oracle.com (abhmp0019.oracle.com [141.146.116.25]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u08LThp2019752; Fri, 8 Jan 2016 21:29:43 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <392e6417-fc8f-46a9-85b2-39d22a90f90e@default> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 13:29:42 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#22314: 25.1.50; Document variable `deactivate-mark' in Elisp manual References: <<<<88046cae-d0e4-4108-b655-5ed142ea97f7@default>>>> <<<<83fuyb50jl.fsf@gnu.org>>>> <<>> <<<2d847088-3f43-4771-9178-4c51081da5d5@default>>> <<<83oacwpcrn.fsf@gnu.org>>> <> <<8337u7q46w.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<8337u7q46w.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22314 Cc: 22314@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > > I think you are. At least for me, with the latest Emacs 25 > > snapshot I have (2015/12/10), `i deactivate-mark' shows two > > index entries, and `,' bounces between them. They are: > > (1) deactivate-mark, the function, and (2) deactivate-mark-hook, > > a variable. Variable `deactivate-mark' is not one of them. > > > > Do you really see something different? >=20 > I see the same, but I don't understand why that is a problem. The > function and the variable are described one after the other, and 'i' > puts you on the first of them with the second clearly visible below. > How is that a problem? And how is it worse than having 2 identical > index entries instead, which point each one to a place several lines > apart? It's wrong because it does not move point to the entry. Nothing indicates to a user that there in fact 3 entries, not 2. Whether you might happen to have the 3rd visible in the same window (and you might not, depending on your window size), you might well not notice it there - as I did not. I would not have filed this bug report if I thought that this was not a problem. And as you can see from my initial report, I in fact mistakenly thought that the variable was not even documented, because cycling among the index entries did not take me to it. I don't see why you wouldn't want to add an index entry for this variable. But if you don't feel like it then what can I say? If the Elisp manual had different indexes, as does the Emacs manual, then adding it would also let a user find it in the Variables Index. Maybe it's not possible to index both, if there is only one Index? Dunno. If you can't, you can't. If you can (maybe two entries, with suffixes "(variable)" and "(function)"), that's better, IMO. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 09 01:49:29 2016 Received: (at 22314-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jan 2016 06:49:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43573 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aHnL7-0003Vl-E1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jan 2016 01:49:29 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:56051) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aHnL5-0003VY-V0 for 22314-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jan 2016 01:49:28 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aHnKx-0002eC-E6 for 22314-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jan 2016 01:49:22 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:52132) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aHnKx-0002e8-Aj; Sat, 09 Jan 2016 01:49:19 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1902 helo=HOME-C4E4A596F7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aHnKj-0004qG-Jr; Sat, 09 Jan 2016 01:49:18 -0500 Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2016 08:49:05 +0200 Message-Id: <83wprjnt7i.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: <392e6417-fc8f-46a9-85b2-39d22a90f90e@default> (message from Drew Adams on Fri, 8 Jan 2016 13:29:42 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: bug#22314: 25.1.50; Document variable `deactivate-mark' in Elisp manual References: <<<<88046cae-d0e4-4108-b655-5ed142ea97f7@default>>>> <<<<83fuyb50jl.fsf@gnu.org>>>> <<>> <<<2d847088-3f43-4771-9178-4c51081da5d5@default>>> <<<83oacwpcrn.fsf@gnu.org>>> <> <<8337u7q46w.fsf@gnu.org>> <392e6417-fc8f-46a9-85b2-39d22a90f90e@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22314-done Cc: 22314-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 13:29:42 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 22314@debbugs.gnu.org > > > I see the same, but I don't understand why that is a problem. The > > function and the variable are described one after the other, and 'i' > > puts you on the first of them with the second clearly visible below. > > How is that a problem? And how is it worse than having 2 identical > > index entries instead, which point each one to a place several lines > > apart? > > It's wrong because it does not move point to the entry. Nothing > indicates to a user that there in fact 3 entries, not 2. The user's eyes should indicate that. You are splitting hair. > I would not have filed this bug report if I thought that this > was not a problem. And as you can see from my initial report, > I in fact mistakenly thought that the variable was not even > documented, because cycling among the index entries did not > take me to it. You should have read a bit more than a single line. > I don't see why you wouldn't want to add an index entry for this > variable. But if you don't feel like it then what can I say? THERE IS ALREADY AN INDEX ENTRY FOR IT!!!! How many times do I need to tell you that? Just look at the sources! > If the Elisp manual had different indexes, as does the Emacs > manual, then adding it would also let a user find it in the > Variables Index. The function is indexed as a function, the variable is indexed as a variable. We have @defvar for the variable, which indexes the variable, and a @defun for the function, which indexes the function. > Maybe it's not possible to index both, if there is only one > Index? Dunno. If you can't, you can't. If you can (maybe two > entries, with suffixes "(variable)" and "(function)"), that's > better, IMO. Bug closed. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 09 13:52:48 2016 Received: (at 22314-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jan 2016 18:52:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44619 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aHyd6-0006y1-HJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jan 2016 13:52:48 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:31061) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aHyd5-0006xo-5F for 22314-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jan 2016 13:52:47 -0500 Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u09IqdNk006669 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Jan 2016 18:52:40 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u09Iqd6P013811 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Jan 2016 18:52:39 GMT Received: from abhmp0003.oracle.com (abhmp0003.oracle.com [141.146.116.9]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u09IqcAM000398; Sat, 9 Jan 2016 18:52:39 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2016 10:52:38 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#22314: 25.1.50; Document variable `deactivate-mark' in Elisp manual References: <<<<<88046cae-d0e4-4108-b655-5ed142ea97f7@default>>>>> <<<<<83fuyb50jl.fsf@gnu.org>>>>> <<<>>> <<<<2d847088-3f43-4771-9178-4c51081da5d5@default>>>> <<<<83oacwpcrn.fsf@gnu.org>>>> <<>> <<<8337u7q46w.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<392e6417-fc8f-46a9-85b2-39d22a90f90e@default>> <<83wprjnt7i.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83wprjnt7i.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22314-done Cc: 22314-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > > It's wrong because it does not move point to the entry. Nothing > > indicates to a user that there in fact 3 entries, not 2. >=20 > The user's eyes should indicate that. You are splitting hair. No, the echoed message that says there are a total of 2 entries should indicate the number of entries. And hitting `,' should move point to each entry in turn. > > I would not have filed this bug report if I thought that this > > was not a problem. And as you can see from my initial report, > > I in fact mistakenly thought that the variable was not even > > documented, because cycling among the index entries did not > > take me to it. >=20 > You should have read a bit more than a single line. Eli, you can say "you should" all you want. A user (I) reported the problem. If this is a problem for me to find the (non-existent) index entry then it can be a problem for others. Ignore it if you like. > > I don't see why you wouldn't want to add an index entry for this > > variable. But if you don't feel like it then what can I say? >=20 > THERE IS ALREADY AN INDEX ENTRY FOR IT!!!! >=20 > How many times do I need to tell you that? Just look at the sources! Why are you shouting? Whatever you might see in the sources, what concerns me is what a user sees - the observable behavior. Observably the is only one index entry for `deactivate-mark'. Looking in the index itself shows me that there is a single entry for `deactivate-mark'. The echo-area message that gives the total number of matching entries tells me that there is only one entry for `deactivate-mark' (the total shown is 2 entries, and the other one is for `deactivate-mark-hook'). And cycling with `,' moves only between those two entries, never to a variable entry (that your shouting insists exists) for `deactivate-mark'. > > If the Elisp manual had different indexes, as does the Emacs > > manual, then adding it would also let a user find it in the > > Variables Index. >=20 > The function is indexed as a function, the variable is indexed as a > variable. We have @defvar for the variable, which indexes the > variable, and a @defun for the function, which indexes the function. So why is there only one entry for `deactivate-mark' in the Index? And why is there only one entry for it when you use `,' to cycle among all entries? And why does the echo message tell you that there are only 2 entries (the ones you visit when cycling, neither of which is for this variable)? (I don't want to presume anything, but are you sure you are not mistaking the existing index entry for variable `deactivate-mark-hook' for an entry for variable `deactivate-mark'?) > > Maybe it's not possible to index both, if there is only one > > Index? Dunno. If you can't, you can't. If you can (maybe two > > entries, with suffixes "(variable)" and "(function)"), that's > > better, IMO. >=20 > Bug closed. Feel better now? From unknown Tue Aug 19 01:10:54 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2016 12:24:03 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator