From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 01 22:23:21 2016 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jan 2016 03:23:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34219 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aFCmn-0005Ft-Kh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jan 2016 22:23:21 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:47259) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aFCml-0005Fh-R2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jan 2016 22:23:20 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFCmf-0005rM-S4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jan 2016 22:23:14 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,XPRIO autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:47469) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFCmf-0005rI-Ox for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jan 2016 22:23:13 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38227) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFCme-0001Dv-RU for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jan 2016 22:23:13 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFCmb-0005qi-Le for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jan 2016 22:23:12 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:50055) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFCmb-0005qT-FQ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jan 2016 22:23:09 -0500 Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u023N5aN003089 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Sat, 2 Jan 2016 03:23:07 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u023N50q024886 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Sat, 2 Jan 2016 03:23:05 GMT Received: from abhmp0011.oracle.com (abhmp0011.oracle.com [141.146.116.17]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u023N5di012348 for ; Sat, 2 Jan 2016 03:23:05 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <61b4ebe0-446c-49df-b5d1-c527a47192b5@default> Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2016 19:23:03 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 25.1.50; REGRESSION: Emacs 24.3 breaks loading cl-macs to get macro `case' X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) This regression was introduced in Emacs 24.3. Prior to that, code could use (require 'cl-macs) to have macros such as `case' provided at runtime. (eval-when-compile (require 'cl)) still works, of course. But neither (eval-when-compile (require 'cl-macs)) nor (require 'cl-macs) defines macro `case', starting with Emacs 24.3. This gratuitously breaks any existing code that loads cl-macs expecting to get the definition of `case'. This breakage should not be necessary. In GNU Emacs 25.1.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2015-12-10 Bzr revision: 6148555ee5a3d0139ae517803718b3e0357933c7 Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --prefix=3D/c/Devel/emacs/snapshot/trunk --enable-checking=3Dye= s --enable-check-lisp-object-type --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=3D-Og -ggdb3' LDFLAGS=3D-Lc:/Devel/emacs/lib 'CPPFLAGS=3D-DGC_MCHECK=3D1 -Ic:/Devel/emacs/include'' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 02 03:37:34 2016 Received: (at 22291) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jan 2016 08:37:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34283 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aFHgs-00063T-Ft for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 03:37:34 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:59292) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aFHgr-00063F-PK for 22291@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 03:37:34 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFHgj-0004X3-Hy for 22291@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 03:37:28 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:49086) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFHgj-0004Wz-Et; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 03:37:25 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1259 helo=HOME-C4E4A596F7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aFHgi-0008WH-Q9; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 03:37:25 -0500 Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2016 10:37:21 +0200 Message-Id: <83a8oocr7i.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: <61b4ebe0-446c-49df-b5d1-c527a47192b5@default> (message from Drew Adams on Fri, 1 Jan 2016 19:23:03 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: bug#22291: 25.1.50; REGRESSION: Emacs 24.3 breaks loading cl-macs to get macro `case' References: <61b4ebe0-446c-49df-b5d1-c527a47192b5@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22291 Cc: 22291@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2016 19:23:03 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > > This regression was introduced in Emacs 24.3. Prior to that, code could > use (require 'cl-macs) to have macros such as `case' provided at > runtime. > > (eval-when-compile (require 'cl)) still works, of course. But neither > (eval-when-compile (require 'cl-macs)) nor (require 'cl-macs) defines > macro `case', starting with Emacs 24.3. > > This gratuitously breaks any existing code that loads cl-macs expecting > to get the definition of `case'. This breakage should not be necessary. >From NEWS.24, under "Changes in Specialized Modes and Packages in Emacs 24.3": *** CL's main entry is now (require 'cl-lib). `cl-lib' is like the old `cl' except that it uses the namespace cleanly; i.e., all its definitions have the "cl-" prefix (and internal definitions use the "cl--" prefix). If `cl' provided a feature under the name `foo', then `cl-lib' provides it under the name `cl-foo' instead; with the exceptions of the few `cl' definitions that had to use `foo*' to avoid conflicts with pre-existing Elisp entities. These have been renamed to `cl-foo' rather than `cl-foo*'. IOW, this was a deliberate change, and you should either use 'cl-case' with Emacs versions since 24.3, or use 'cl' instead of 'cl-macs'. OK? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 02 08:39:18 2016 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jan 2016 13:39:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34317 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aFMOs-0006H5-5P for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 08:39:18 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:41011) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aFMOp-0006Gs-PQ for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 08:39:16 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFMOh-00077C-Gc for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 08:39:10 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:52910) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFMOh-000773-E8 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 08:39:07 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1646 helo=HOME-C4E4A596F7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aFMOg-0002EE-LP for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 08:39:07 -0500 Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2016 15:39:04 +0200 Message-Id: <83k2nsayo7.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: 22291 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) block 19759 by 22291 thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 02 12:28:13 2016 Received: (at 22291) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jan 2016 17:28:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35477 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aFPyP-00054L-2m for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:28:13 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:40837) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aFPyN-000548-K3 for 22291@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:28:12 -0500 Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u02HS5Hd002467 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Jan 2016 17:28:05 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u02HS4m0028371 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Jan 2016 17:28:05 GMT Received: from abhmp0014.oracle.com (abhmp0014.oracle.com [141.146.116.20]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u02HS3so005483; Sat, 2 Jan 2016 17:28:04 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <7059fd9d-4ec3-4910-9aa2-f8c07ba9fe01@default> Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2016 09:28:02 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#22291: 25.1.50; REGRESSION: Emacs 24.3 breaks loading cl-macs to get macro `case' References: <<61b4ebe0-446c-49df-b5d1-c527a47192b5@default>> <<83a8oocr7i.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83a8oocr7i.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22291 Cc: 22291@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > IOW, this was a deliberate change, and you should either use 'cl-case' > with Emacs versions since 24.3, or use 'cl' instead of 'cl-macs'. I know all of that. Just because something was decided does not mean that that decision was the best decision possible, or even wise. This is a gratuitous change that breaks backward compatibility. That's the point. Gratuitous - unnecessary. Personally I tend to require `cl', and at compile-time only, to get such macros. But it is entirely reasonable that someone might require `cl-macs' - at runtime or compile time - to get such a macro definition. And if some user does not compile the code that requires the library that provides the macro, then s?he will now get the entire `cl' at runtime, instead of getting only the much-smaller `cl-macs' at runtime. > OK? Not IMHO. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 02 12:45:40 2016 Received: (at 22291-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jan 2016 17:45:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35485 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aFQFH-0005TI-Qq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:45:40 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:48695) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aFQFF-0005T0-Hs for 22291-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:45:38 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFQF7-0000Gk-39 for 22291-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:45:32 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:55309) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFQF6-0000GQ-VQ; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:45:29 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1877 helo=HOME-C4E4A596F7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aFQES-0000JE-Of; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:45:28 -0500 Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2016 19:44:44 +0200 Message-Id: <837fjrc1v7.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: <7059fd9d-4ec3-4910-9aa2-f8c07ba9fe01@default> (message from Drew Adams on Sat, 2 Jan 2016 09:28:02 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: bug#22291: 25.1.50; REGRESSION: Emacs 24.3 breaks loading cl-macs to get macro `case' References: <<61b4ebe0-446c-49df-b5d1-c527a47192b5@default>> <<83a8oocr7i.fsf@gnu.org>> <7059fd9d-4ec3-4910-9aa2-f8c07ba9fe01@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22291-done Cc: 22291-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2016 09:28:02 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 22291@debbugs.gnu.org > > > IOW, this was a deliberate change, and you should either use 'cl-case' > > with Emacs versions since 24.3, or use 'cl' instead of 'cl-macs'. > > I know all of that. Just because something was decided does not mean > that that decision was the best decision possible, or even wise. > > This is a gratuitous change that breaks backward compatibility. That's > the point. Gratuitous - unnecessary. > > Personally I tend to require `cl', and at compile-time only, to get > such macros. But it is entirely reasonable that someone might require > `cl-macs' - at runtime or compile time - to get such a macro definition. > > And if some user does not compile the code that requires the library > that provides the macro, then s?he will now get the entire `cl' at > runtime, instead of getting only the much-smaller `cl-macs' at runtime. > > > OK? > > Not IMHO. So I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. >From my POV, this is not a bug, but a deliberate change that is well documented. Closing. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 02 12:50:43 2016 Received: (at 22291) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jan 2016 17:50:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35495 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aFQKB-0005bD-LR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:50:43 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:50196) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aFQKA-0005b1-AJ for 22291@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:50:42 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFQK4-0001rI-BW for 22291@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:50:37 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:55537) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFQK4-0001rE-8C for 22291@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:50:36 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aFQK3-0000wa-Py; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:50:35 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: 22291@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#22291: 25.1.50; NOTABUG: Emacs 24.3 breaks loading cl-macs to get macro `case' References: <61b4ebe0-446c-49df-b5d1-c527a47192b5@default> <83a8oocr7i.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spook: broadside bullion Border Patrol Belknap Burn National X-Ran: b|=z:gEJN%sPkXD!0dmEC:km8.LAZ^.}2Aqn>*nq;v!%];OC.funWLf.-lwb!Bh.@]Et96 X-Hue: magenta X-Attribution: GM Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:50:35 -0500 In-Reply-To: <83a8oocr7i.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 02 Jan 2016 10:37:21 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22291 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) The only public entry points to the cl library are cl/cl-lib (it was always so). External code should not attempt to load any of the cl-foo submodules that it happens to be divided into. For case, simply (eval-when-compile (require 'cl)) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 02 12:51:10 2016 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jan 2016 17:51:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35499 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aFQKb-0005cG-RV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:51:10 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:50284) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aFQKa-0005c4-R5 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:51:09 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFQKV-0001vK-5l for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:51:03 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:55540) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFQKV-0001vG-2u for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:51:03 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aFQKU-00011T-Q6 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:51:02 -0500 Subject: control message for bug 22291 To: X-Mailer: mail (GNU Mailutils 2.99.98) Message-Id: From: Glenn Morris Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:51:02 -0500 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) severity 22291 wishlist tag 22291 notabug wontfix From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 02 12:53:05 2016 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jan 2016 17:53:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35503 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aFQMT-0005fZ-6m for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:53:05 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:50915) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aFQMS-0005ew-2a for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:53:04 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFQMM-0002Vi-HL for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:52:59 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:55578) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFQMM-0002Ve-Dt for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:52:58 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aFQMM-0001Gz-2l for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:52:58 -0500 Subject: control message for bug 19759 To: X-Mailer: mail (GNU Mailutils 2.99.98) Message-Id: From: Glenn Morris Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:52:58 -0500 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) unblock 19759 by 22291 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 02 13:16:31 2016 Received: (at 22291) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jan 2016 18:16:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35526 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aFQj8-0000wp-QQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 13:16:30 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:18250) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aFQj7-0000qF-Mg for 22291@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 13:16:30 -0500 Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u02IGLBZ021554 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Jan 2016 18:16:22 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u02IGLrZ005230 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Jan 2016 18:16:21 GMT Received: from abhmp0019.oracle.com (abhmp0019.oracle.com [141.146.116.25]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u02IGKeZ001322; Sat, 2 Jan 2016 18:16:20 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <28ece8d6-ea30-44cc-b4da-96bbeaeb1886@default> Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2016 10:16:19 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Glenn Morris , 22291@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: RE: bug#22291: 25.1.50; NOTABUG: Emacs 24.3 breaks loading cl-macs to get macro `case' References: <61b4ebe0-446c-49df-b5d1-c527a47192b5@default> <83a8oocr7i.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22291 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > The only public entry points to the cl library are cl/cl-lib > (it was always so). What does that even mean? What determines it; IOW, why do you say so? > External code should not attempt to load any of the cl-foo submodules > that it happens to be divided into. Where is that stated, besides your statement of it now? And what would be the rationale for such a proscription? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 03 16:32:34 2016 Received: (at 22291) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jan 2016 21:32:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36942 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aFqGQ-0006l6-FP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2016 16:32:34 -0500 Received: from mail-pa0-f52.google.com ([209.85.220.52]:34858) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aFqGP-0006kl-DS for 22291@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2016 16:32:33 -0500 Received: by mail-pa0-f52.google.com with SMTP id do7so1379426pab.2 for <22291@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 03 Jan 2016 13:32:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=mGbFXTKnlbHwMg0+HGLHZY0AUKJk3fF45y8ToO6gbyc=; b=BuPdBe2ym8l8cFKOtZllumf9M6BjFRrvGnnwqzYsNXOB7uH7I3VgSfFZz/6CqH7U2A K6KeXChJEw8ZX5OddUJUdolAlUUjZnEQaVoCjjxnM0V13rggsvyde/8zg7ryOVuajXgR Q9e5YmzlBASOog/L/sdkqSOgdVyZq0oWpkYz3SkxzXn388nyP8v7HThc+oE4gzbHBiDt HWZM1RAhkt6vmHhEIYLmrSvuuIbzYTzJXZjL/Qof2NfrzMPvShfNZUENSY2j9YsVYlyd +sXE19GNlLEZQEf4ZzQITlNClxmhvSZHaUW9cmrhzN1JQuschyk323qFGZwouWUJYeuo rKxg== X-Received: by 10.66.141.165 with SMTP id rp5mr62647376pab.56.1451856747965; Sun, 03 Jan 2016 13:32:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from Vulcan.local (76-234-68-79.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.68.79]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 184sm44634356pfa.15.2016.01.03.13.32.26 (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 03 Jan 2016 13:32:27 -0800 (PST) From: John Wiegley X-Google-Original-From: "John Wiegley" Received: by Vulcan.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 69BFC12000F18; Sun, 3 Jan 2016 13:32:26 -0800 (PST) To: 22291@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#22291: 25.1.50; REGRESSION: Emacs 24.3 breaks loading cl-macs to get macro `case' In-Reply-To: <837fjrc1v7.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 02 Jan 2016 19:44:44 +0200") Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2016 13:31:28 -0800 Message-ID: References: <61b4ebe0-446c-49df-b5d1-c527a47192b5@default>> <83a8oocr7i.fsf@gnu.org>> <7059fd9d-4ec3-4910-9aa2-f8c07ba9fe01@default> <837fjrc1v7.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.130014 (Ma Gnus v0.14) Emacs/24.5 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22291 Cc: eliz@gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) >>>>> Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Personally I tend to require `cl', and at compile-time only, to get >> such macros. But it is entirely reasonable that someone might require >> `cl-macs' - at runtime or compile time - to get such a macro definition. >> >> And if some user does not compile the code that requires the library >> that provides the macro, then s?he will now get the entire `cl' at >> runtime, instead of getting only the much-smaller `cl-macs' at runtime. >> >> > OK? >> >> Not IMHO. > So I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. > From my POV, this is not a bug, but a deliberate change that is well > documented. >From the point of view of the bug report, I agree with Eli. >From the point of view of the issue, I agree with Drew. Drew, let's close this as a bug, but open a new discussion on better organization of the CL stuff. We should start the discussion on tangents, until we arrive at something meaningful to bring to the developer's list. -- John Wiegley GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2 From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:47:41 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2016 12:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator