From unknown Sat Sep 06 02:03:26 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#22213: 24.5; please allow specification or elimination of timestamp in autoloads Resent-From: David Bremner Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 18:56:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 22213 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 22213@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.14505513525597 (code B ref -1); Sat, 19 Dec 2015 18:56:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Dec 2015 18:55:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57195 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aAMfX-0001SC-V7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 13:55:52 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:56326) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aAMfW-0001Rx-03 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 13:55:50 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aAMf7-0006a4-Ix for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 13:55:44 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:37471) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aAMf7-0006Zy-DC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 13:55:25 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46431) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aAMe9-0006Hm-Tv for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 13:55:25 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aAMc9-0005lT-IN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 13:54:25 -0500 Received: from fethera.tethera.net ([198.245.60.197]:39756) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aAMc9-0005jl-88 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 13:52:21 -0500 Received: from remotemail by fethera.tethera.net with local (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aAMbv-0001UY-7b; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 13:52:07 -0500 Received: (nullmailer pid 7875 invoked by uid 1000); Sat, 19 Dec 2015 18:52:10 -0000 From: David Bremner User-Agent: Notmuch/0.21+7~g55fb7da (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.5.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 14:52:10 -0400 Message-ID: <877fkauv8l.fsf@zancas.localnet> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) I'm maintaining a tool in debian that installs package.el packages so they can be managed by the system package system. For various reasons (see http://reproducible-builds.org for motivations) it is desirable if packages unpack into elpa directories in a reproducible (i.e. bit identical every time) way. Unfortunately update-directory-autoloads uses (current-time), which effectively means this unpacking is different every time. It would be nice to be able to override the time used, or perhaps eliminate the timestamp entirely. Currently I'm doing something like (defun dhelpa-autoload-insert-section-header (real-fun outbuf autoloads load-name file time) (funcall real-fun outbuf autoloads load-name file pkg-time)) (advice-add #'autoload-insert-section-header :around #'dhelpa-autoload-insert-section-header) (package--make-autoloads-and-stuff pkg-desc pkg-dir) (advice-remove #'autoload-insert-section-header #'dhelpa-autoload-insert-section-header) I'd prefer not to use advice here, since it makes things harder to debug, and it's depending on the internals of package--make-autoloads-and-stuff (of course calling the internal function is itself not great, but that's an orthogonal problem). In GNU Emacs 24.5.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.18.2) of 2015-10-24 on trouble, modified by Debian Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11703000 System Description: Debian GNU/Linux testing (stretch) Configured using: `configure --build x86_64-linux-gnu --prefix=/usr --sharedstatedir=/var/lib --libexecdir=/usr/lib --localstatedir=/var/lib --infodir=/usr/share/info --mandir=/usr/share/man --with-pop=yes --enable-locallisppath=/etc/emacs24:/etc/emacs:/usr/local/share/emacs/24.5/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/24.5/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp --build x86_64-linux-gnu --prefix=/usr --sharedstatedir=/var/lib --libexecdir=/usr/lib --localstatedir=/var/lib --infodir=/usr/share/info --mandir=/usr/share/man --with-pop=yes --enable-locallisppath=/etc/emacs24:/etc/emacs:/usr/local/share/emacs/24.5/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/24.5/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp --with-x=yes --with-x-toolkit=gtk3 --with-toolkit-scroll-bars 'CFLAGS=-g -O2 -fstack-protector-strong -Wformat -Werror=format-security -Wall' CPPFLAGS=-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 LDFLAGS=-Wl,-z,relro' Important settings: value of $LANG: en_CA.UTF-8 locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: Circe Channel Minor modes in effect: global-git-commit-mode: t shell-dirtrack-mode: t diff-auto-refine-mode: t tracking-mode: t tooltip-mode: t electric-indent-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t line-number-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t Recent messages: Mark set [2 times] Sending via mail... Sending...done End of buffer [2 times] widget-before-change: Text is read-only: "Attempt to change text outside editable field" [2 times] End of search results. Mark activated call-interactively: Text is read-only delete-backward-char: Text is read-only Making completion list... 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/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/preview /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/context hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/context /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/tex-fold hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-fold /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/multi-prompt hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/multi-prompt /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/toolbar-x hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/toolbar-x /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/latex hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/latex Features: (shadow emacsbug whitespace lisp-mnt pp cperl-mode misearch multi-isearch mm-uu mml2015 nnheader apropos eieio-opt speedbar sb-image ezimage dframe debug debian-bug debian-changelog-mode org-capture macros markdown-mode shr-color linum magit-version magit-blame magit-stash magit-bisect magit-remote magit-commit magit-sequence magit magit-apply magit-wip magit-log magit-diff smerge-mode magit-core magit-process magit-popup magit-mode magit-git magit-section magit-utils 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lcs lui-format lui tracking cl-loaddefs cl-lib shorten thingatpt paren help-mode flyspell ispell ring circe-compat info easymenu finder-inf package epg-config debian-el debian-el-loaddefs org-install emacs-goodies-el emacs-goodies-custom emacs-goodies-loaddefs easy-mmode dpkg-dev-el dpkg-dev-el-loaddefs dash-functional dash preview-latex tex-site auto-loads tooltip electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel x-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list newcomment lisp-mode prog-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev minibuffer nadvice loaddefs button faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote make-network-process dbusbind gfilenotify dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 1091474 152776) (symbols 48 51492 0) (miscs 40 12970 4097) (strings 32 164752 34578) (string-bytes 1 5101678) (vectors 16 61496) (vector-slots 8 1692108 45087) (floats 8 2751 2648) (intervals 56 73412 1686) (buffers 960 140) (heap 1024 85890 4651)) From unknown Sat Sep 06 02:03:26 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#22213: 24.5; please allow specification or elimination of timestamp in autoloads Resent-From: Glenn Morris Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 19:13:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22213 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: David Bremner Cc: 22213@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 22213-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22213.14505523237097 (code B ref 22213); Sat, 19 Dec 2015 19:13:02 +0000 Received: (at 22213) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Dec 2015 19:12:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57200 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aAMvC-0001qP-UN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 14:12:03 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:59516) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aAMvB-0001pw-5x for 22213@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 14:12:01 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aAMv4-0002Op-RD for 22213@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 14:11:55 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD, UNRESOLVED_TEMPLATE autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:47185) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aAMux-0002NL-Cq; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 14:11:47 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aAMuu-0003Rj-Sz; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 14:11:45 -0500 From: Glenn Morris References: <877fkauv8l.fsf@zancas.localnet> X-Spook: Cyber terror Influenza CIA Europol weapons of mass X-Ran: i4%CJy6nW0f-~:]h'8i4xUaFz*J\E#D12.i0EdTa5A*.XyCmfWE@ X-Hue: red X-Attribution: GM Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 14:11:44 -0500 In-Reply-To: <877fkauv8l.fsf@zancas.localnet> (David Bremner's message of "Sat, 19 Dec 2015 14:52:10 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) David Bremner wrote: > Unfortunately update-directory-autoloads uses (current-time), which > effectively means this unpacking is different every time. Actually it doesn't, since 5200c2baefbc8: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-diffs/2015-06/msg00357.html So long as the timestamps of your inputs are fixed, the output should not vary. I would be interested to hear if this solves the problem for you. The only remaining issue I'm aware of is if there are generated files in your inputs, they get a new timestamp every build, so the output loaddefs file still varies. Eg this applies to the lisp/loaddefs.el file in Emacs. I think the right solution for that might be to skip no-update-autoloads files altogether (rather than recording them in the trailing section of loaddefs), but I haven't looked at this properly. From unknown Sat Sep 06 02:03:26 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#22213: 24.5; please allow specification or elimination of timestamp in autoloads Resent-From: David Bremner Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 19:50:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22213 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Glenn Morris Cc: 22213@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 22213-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22213.145055456610639 (code B ref 22213); Sat, 19 Dec 2015 19:50:02 +0000 Received: (at 22213) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Dec 2015 19:49:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57238 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aANVO-0002lX-Me for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 14:49:26 -0500 Received: from fethera.tethera.net ([198.245.60.197]:49007) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aANVN-0002lP-RE for 22213@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 14:49:26 -0500 Received: from remotemail by fethera.tethera.net with local (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aANVH-0002D0-CO; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 14:49:19 -0500 Received: (nullmailer pid 23844 invoked by uid 1000); Sat, 19 Dec 2015 19:49:22 -0000 From: David Bremner In-Reply-To: References: <877fkauv8l.fsf@zancas.localnet> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.21+7~g55fb7da (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.5.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 15:49:22 -0400 Message-ID: <874mfeusl9.fsf@zancas.localnet> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) Glenn Morris writes: > David Bremner wrote: > >> Unfortunately update-directory-autoloads uses (current-time), which >> effectively means this unpacking is different every time. > > Actually it doesn't, since 5200c2baefbc8: > > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-diffs/2015-06/msg00357.html Aha, thanks for the pointer (and the work it points to). > > So long as the timestamps of your inputs are fixed, the output should > not vary. I would be interested to hear if this solves the problem for you. It changes the problem to one of managing timestamps of files. This is probably easier than the current situation, but not completely trivial, since e.g. both git checkout and build systems that copy files will modify timestamps. Cheers, David From unknown Sat Sep 06 02:03:26 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#22213: 24.5; please allow specification or elimination of timestamp in autoloads Resent-From: Glenn Morris Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 03:40:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22213 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: David Bremner Cc: 22213@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 22213-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22213.145058275918682 (code B ref 22213); Sun, 20 Dec 2015 03:40:02 +0000 Received: (at 22213) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Dec 2015 03:39:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57344 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aAUq7-0004rG-CG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 22:39:19 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:59661) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aAUq5-0004r2-9S for 22213@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 22:39:17 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aAUpz-0002YO-52 for 22213@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 22:39:11 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:57555) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aAUpr-0002Xk-2U; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 22:39:03 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aAUpp-0004jL-Kr; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 22:39:01 -0500 From: Glenn Morris References: <877fkauv8l.fsf@zancas.localnet> <874mfeusl9.fsf@zancas.localnet> X-Spook: Exposure Pakistan Yukon CBNRC Aldergrove Collapse CDMA X-Ran: .w_#H{<-@b:=UA^M{;(KChHdVLQfB`%t,=JW.RoW??iVXW@/s0g'-m9I&?4`,?Z3Q$)'6; X-Hue: blue X-Attribution: GM Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 22:39:01 -0500 In-Reply-To: <874mfeusl9.fsf@zancas.localnet> (David Bremner's message of "Sat, 19 Dec 2015 15:49:22 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) David Bremner wrote: > It changes the problem to one of managing timestamps of files. This is > probably easier than the current situation, but not completely trivial, > since e.g. both git checkout and build systems that copy files will > modify timestamps. Point taken about VCS checkouts. Is that a case you need to deal with? I was thinking of rebuilding a binary package from a given source tarfile. But surely a build system must preserve source file timestamps, for the sake of make? Anyway, for an optional, non-default behaviour controlled by an (env)var, two ideas come to mind. 1) Store no timestamp in the loaddefs file, and use the modtime of the loaddefs file instead. In fact, I'm not sure why we don't just do it this way... The only reason I can come up with is parallel builds where the input files may get modified during the time it takes to write the loaddefs file. But if that could happen, then the generated loaddefs file might be wrong, so the build system dependencies must be written to prevent this. (Generated lisp files are almost always no-update-autoloads anyway.) So after thinking about it, this explanation doesn't make sense. So maybe I'm missing some other reason why it is how it is...? 2) Use md5sums instead of timestamps. This would require the final "these files contained no autoloads" section to be split up into one section per file, each with its own md5sum. This method would slow down the (re)building of loaddefs (which is why timestamps are used now most of the time). This would be more work to implement, and make builds slower, but it would be strictly correct. I'm guessing you don't care about in-place updating of a pre-existing loaddefs after modifying the inputs, so 1) would be fine? From unknown Sat Sep 06 02:03:26 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#22213: 24.5; please allow specification or elimination of timestamp in autoloads Resent-From: Philipp Stephani Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 09:30:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22213 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: David Bremner , 22213@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 22213-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22213.145060377617426 (code B ref 22213); Sun, 20 Dec 2015 09:30:02 +0000 Received: (at 22213) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Dec 2015 09:29:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57393 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aAaJ6-0004X0-1Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Dec 2015 04:29:36 -0500 Received: from mail-wm0-f53.google.com ([74.125.82.53]:35468) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aAaJ4-0004Wo-CO for 22213@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Dec 2015 04:29:34 -0500 Received: by mail-wm0-f53.google.com with SMTP id l126so35217292wml.0 for <22213@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 20 Dec 2015 01:29:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=QDqgibRLqf2N5CVlMxawqpf2KaU1hA8yhGeZ5tvtEt8=; b=kP/vGk20jdConMzXDAiZYHhyRRU6KXQ8EaJtQAh3nnJioZVBepvqpS89XY6qtCc9VQ 8tFdqtLKkk/7hsLjpmyaDbh9crowqVmypfLU2O5T87PZXl/3DqBcDTi+YZyuPAzR4v0b QVY8vdExG3JHW2IL/LiAdRwoeMgHAb6by7tivZaNYZ74dire+QGRIai1l3De+JYnlc5a tIOkEHpEXlcqHbDgYnQMkm2EG5mflGsGCWm143lCdKhtIFBppcmv4hoMKJnRRYmjAW8c mjGKAqKgf0TecY4LknkYSphgSiodtH8Z2mycFeQf1KoCCnIhQYkapvBVzpG2vWfr26PV n9Pw== X-Received: by 10.194.116.170 with SMTP id jx10mr13595545wjb.166.1450603768667; Sun, 20 Dec 2015 01:29:28 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <877fkauv8l.fsf@zancas.localnet> In-Reply-To: <877fkauv8l.fsf@zancas.localnet> From: Philipp Stephani Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 09:29:18 +0000 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1130cd2457636e05275102f5 X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) --001a1130cd2457636e05275102f5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 David Bremner schrieb am Sa., 19. Dez. 2015 um 19:56 Uhr: > > I'm maintaining a tool in debian that installs package.el packages so > they can be managed by the system package system. > > For various reasons (see http://reproducible-builds.org for motivations) > it is desirable if packages unpack into elpa directories in a > reproducible (i.e. bit identical every time) way. Unfortunately > update-directory-autoloads uses (current-time), which effectively means > this unpacking is different every time. It would be nice to be able to > override the time used, or perhaps eliminate the timestamp entirely. > My understanding of https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-12/msg00309.html is that the goal is to make Emacs builds fully deterministic (even by default, or as the only option). According to https://reproducible-builds.org/docs/timestamps/ it would be great to avoid timestamps in loaddef files (and everywhere else) entirely. --001a1130cd2457636e05275102f5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


David = Bremner <david@tethera.net> = schrieb am Sa., 19. Dez. 2015 um 19:56=C2=A0Uhr:

I'm maintaining a tool in debian that installs package.el packages so they can be managed by the system package system.

For various reasons (see http://reproducible-builds.org for motiva= tions)
it is desirable if packages unpack into elpa directories in a
reproducible (i.e. bit identical every time) way. Unfortunately
update-directory-autoloads uses (current-time), which effectively means
this unpacking is different every time. It would be nice to be able to
override the time used, or perhaps eliminate the timestamp entirely.

My understanding of https://lists.gn= u.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-12/msg00309.html=C2=A0is that the g= oal is to make Emacs builds fully deterministic (even by default, or as the= only option). According to https://reproducible-builds.org/docs/timestamps/=C2=A0it = would be great to avoid timestamps in loaddef files (and everywhere else) e= ntirely.=C2=A0
--001a1130cd2457636e05275102f5-- From unknown Sat Sep 06 02:03:26 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#22213: 24.5; please allow specification or elimination of timestamp in autoloads Resent-From: Philipp Stephani Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 09:34:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22213 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: David Bremner , Glenn Morris Cc: 22213@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 22213-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22213.145060401017841 (code B ref 22213); Sun, 20 Dec 2015 09:34:01 +0000 Received: (at 22213) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Dec 2015 09:33:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57400 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aAaMr-0004dh-Jv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Dec 2015 04:33:29 -0500 Received: from mail-wm0-f43.google.com ([74.125.82.43]:37407) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aAaMq-0004dU-Mw for 22213@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Dec 2015 04:33:29 -0500 Received: by mail-wm0-f43.google.com with SMTP id p187so35304903wmp.0 for <22213@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 20 Dec 2015 01:33:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=hXtXGx+oKqXcRK48/AMhSulqlQFuoNwfMPp6Y7aRgGM=; b=zZIZd7/kmd9MbkbfjoBpl+aXfB/xkVlLlc6e4LKjqJYzwBS1hfd15XKUFBavMznhjN 1tKTmT2h1BfedhjIQo0ccwiOxF2avqXzDUrnvZcKXNcF5zEXPbFJLT2mMaH8eK6pQz2X TzIOTHSOZ41JpkGXAOxE84K/54hzObHVf27QHtcs4IWKWS9OEFYXuo9qxoGjFRdCsSch ne34r6SBrOMGUw+Ib2h6Jt4TOnUBXOMajYbS4gAP0rfFoFnzm8MIekjoxmUzCRbiOphf b8B19AEPdoLgcvM8me6pNStIuhlHyyFIOrxr9kFv2eyV9h5L9+f1EWl3kucoAcrHeHbZ 3hcg== X-Received: by 10.28.57.69 with SMTP id g66mr14099920wma.63.1450604003205; Sun, 20 Dec 2015 01:33:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <877fkauv8l.fsf@zancas.localnet> <874mfeusl9.fsf@zancas.localnet> In-Reply-To: <874mfeusl9.fsf@zancas.localnet> From: Philipp Stephani Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 09:33:13 +0000 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1148e7105227c205275110c2 X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) --001a1148e7105227c205275110c2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 David Bremner schrieb am Sa., 19. Dez. 2015 um 20:50 Uhr: > > > > So long as the timestamps of your inputs are fixed, the output should > > not vary. I would be interested to hear if this solves the problem for > you. > > It changes the problem to one of managing timestamps of files. This is > probably easier than the current situation, but not completely trivial, > since e.g. both git checkout and build systems that copy files will > modify timestamps. > Agreed, this basically means that you have to do a 'find -exec touch -d @0 '{}' +' or so before every build. That's doable, but increases complexity and can be brittle if e.g. the filesystem doesn't have accurate mtimes or something else modifies the input files. Preferably builds should only depend on relative file names and file contents, not other kinds of metadata. --001a1148e7105227c205275110c2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


David = Bremner <david@tethera.net> = schrieb am Sa., 19. Dez. 2015 um 20:50=C2=A0Uhr:
>
> So long as the timestamps of your inputs are fixed, the output should<= br> > not vary. I would be interested to hear if this solves the problem for= you.

It changes the problem to one of managing timestamps of files. This is
probably easier than the current situation, but not completely trivial,
since e.g. both git checkout and build systems that copy files will
modify timestamps.

Agreed, this basically means that you have= to do a 'find -exec touch -d @0 '{}' +' or so before every= build. That's doable, but increases complexity and can be brittle if e= .g. the filesystem doesn't have accurate mtimes or something else modif= ies the input files. Preferably builds should only depend on relative file = names and file contents, not other kinds of metadata.=C2=A0
--001a1148e7105227c205275110c2-- From unknown Sat Sep 06 02:03:26 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#22213: 24.5; please allow specification or elimination of timestamp in autoloads Resent-From: Glenn Morris Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 00:39:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22213 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: David Bremner , 22213@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 22213-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22213.145065831014918 (code B ref 22213); Mon, 21 Dec 2015 00:39:01 +0000 Received: (at 22213) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Dec 2015 00:38:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58393 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aAoUf-0003sX-Ti for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Dec 2015 19:38:30 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:54295) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aAoUd-0003sI-O4 for 22213@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Dec 2015 19:38:27 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aAoUX-000693-TW for 22213@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Dec 2015 19:38:22 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:48198) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aAoUW-00068X-25; Sun, 20 Dec 2015 19:38:20 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aAoUV-0007y3-Fh; Sun, 20 Dec 2015 19:38:19 -0500 From: Glenn Morris References: <877fkauv8l.fsf@zancas.localnet> <874mfeusl9.fsf@zancas.localnet> X-Spook: Rumsfeld War on Terrorism Ceridian Border Patrol X-Ran: A8zu7)4rK_#;a`<<]PpE>CWK-]C$`Qv2W[uB.W1O}D$@$hZ-N6{5q*\:'6^\LRnO,&3Q'( X-Hue: blue X-Attribution: GM Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 19:38:19 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Sat, 19 Dec 2015 22:39:01 -0500") Message-ID: <06zix4ab5w.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Hi Stefan, A question about the timestamps in loaddefs files: Why do we need to store the last modtime for each input file? Why can't we just compare current modtime of input file against that of the loaddefs file itself? Is there a reason not to trust the latter? Thanks. From unknown Sat Sep 06 02:03:26 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#22213: 24.5; please allow specification or elimination of timestamp in autoloads Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 01:55:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22213 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Glenn Morris Cc: David Bremner , 22213@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 22213-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22213.145066286321749 (code B ref 22213); Mon, 21 Dec 2015 01:55:01 +0000 Received: (at 22213) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Dec 2015 01:54:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58410 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aApg7-0005ej-Cj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Dec 2015 20:54:23 -0500 Received: from pruche.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.22]:56513) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aApg5-0005eb-MP for 22213@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Dec 2015 20:54:22 -0500 Received: from fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by pruche.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id tBL1sEiQ026397; Sun, 20 Dec 2015 20:54:15 -0500 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 45743AE0A3; Sun, 20 Dec 2015 20:54:12 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <877fkauv8l.fsf@zancas.localnet> <874mfeusl9.fsf@zancas.localnet> <06zix4ab5w.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 20:54:12 -0500 In-Reply-To: <06zix4ab5w.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (Glenn Morris's message of "Sun, 20 Dec 2015 19:38:19 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.2 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 2 Rules triggered ATR_WMN=0.2, RV5526=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <5526> : inlines <4129> : streams <1557540> : uri <2105485> X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) > A question about the timestamps in loaddefs files: > Why do we need to store the last modtime for each input file? > Why can't we just compare current modtime of input file against that of > the loaddefs file itself? Is there a reason not to trust the latter? Not sure, to tell you the truth. Given the time it takes to generate the loaddefs.el file, there's definitely a chance/risk that the file gets modified between the time it's read by autoloads.el and the time the corresponding loaddefs.el is written. Not sure how serious this risk is, tho. Worth a try. What I suggested for the "reproducible build" was to do something simpler (in terms of safety of the change): just strip the comments from loaddefs.el during "make install". Stefan From unknown Sat Sep 06 02:03:26 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#22213: 24.5; please allow specification or elimination of timestamp in autoloads Resent-From: Glenn Morris Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 02:21:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22213 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: David Bremner , 22213@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 22213-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22213.145066444324205 (code B ref 22213); Mon, 21 Dec 2015 02:21:01 +0000 Received: (at 22213) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Dec 2015 02:20:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58422 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aAq5b-0006IL-Ls for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Dec 2015 21:20:43 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:46228) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aAq5a-0006I8-75 for 22213@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Dec 2015 21:20:42 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aAq5U-0002SE-6h for 22213@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Dec 2015 21:20:36 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:50077) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aAq5S-0002Rp-43; Sun, 20 Dec 2015 21:20:34 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aAq5R-0003mk-KR; Sun, 20 Dec 2015 21:20:33 -0500 From: Glenn Morris References: <877fkauv8l.fsf@zancas.localnet> <874mfeusl9.fsf@zancas.localnet> <06zix4ab5w.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spook: Drug war Interstate Watergate president Looting La X-Ran: @>B@5vK&~&2gbb#J'v(^BMEtVn0Y68n&I)\'o^yL$F+uMhZOwgEQ&Vt/hB-_oyTIfS78q` X-Hue: black X-Attribution: GM Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 21:20:33 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Sun, 20 Dec 2015 20:54:12 -0500") Message-ID: <7a8p47dam.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Oh, I wonder if it is to allow us to only scan some of the input files at a time (eg a single subdir)? If the inputs can change during the time it takes us to write loaddefs, then making autoloads twice in succession could change the output. IMO that would be a bug in the build system (missing dependencies). From unknown Sat Sep 06 02:03:26 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#22213: 24.5; please allow specification or elimination of timestamp in autoloads Resent-From: David Bremner Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 12:29:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22213 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Glenn Morris Cc: 22213@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 22213-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22213.145070090614943 (code B ref 22213); Mon, 21 Dec 2015 12:29:02 +0000 Received: (at 22213) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Dec 2015 12:28:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58610 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aAzZi-0003sw-8u for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Dec 2015 07:28:26 -0500 Received: from fethera.tethera.net ([198.245.60.197]:49080) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aAzZg-0003sm-P2 for 22213@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Dec 2015 07:28:25 -0500 Received: from remotemail by fethera.tethera.net with local (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aAzZa-0006P8-7C; Mon, 21 Dec 2015 07:28:18 -0500 Received: (nullmailer pid 17902 invoked by uid 1000); Mon, 21 Dec 2015 12:28:22 -0000 From: David Bremner In-Reply-To: References: <877fkauv8l.fsf@zancas.localnet> <874mfeusl9.fsf@zancas.localnet> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.21+7~g55fb7da (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.5.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 08:28:12 -0400 Message-ID: <87y4cof0kj.fsf@zancas.localnet> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Glenn Morris writes: > David Bremner wrote: > >> It changes the problem to one of managing timestamps of files. This is >> probably easier than the current situation, but not completely trivial, >> since e.g. both git checkout and build systems that copy files will >> modify timestamps. > > Point taken about VCS checkouts. Is that a case you need to deal with? It seems pretty common for multi-file packages to have some kind of staging process (e.g. "make elpa") in their build process (at least company-mode, circe, magit, and projectile all do). This means the production of tarball itself has timestamps based the VCS checkout. Of course, in this case one could push the responsibility back onto the package authors, but toolchain fixes seem better if possible (where emacs is the toolchain here). > I was thinking of rebuilding a binary package from a given > source tarfile. But surely a build system must preserve source file > timestamps, for the sake of make? They only need to be preserved in a limited way to satisfy make; for example in the staging process above, the copied files are not examined by make after copying. > 1) Store no timestamp in the loaddefs file, and use the modtime of the > loaddefs file instead. In fact, I'm not sure why we don't just do it > this way... [snips] > I'm guessing you don't care about in-place updating of a pre-existing > loaddefs after modifying the inputs, so 1) would be fine? Right, personally I think the installed files, including any generated loaddefs (I'm guessing you're using loaddefs in a generic sense, independent of the setting of GENERATED-AUTOLOADS-FILE?), should be immutable. Stefan's comment about stripping comments from the loaddefs files as part of the install process is intriguing. Am I correct in thinking this is pretty much equivalent to your option #1, in that the ";;;###" section is only used for updating the loaddefs file? Cheers, David --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQGcBAEBCAAGBQJWd/BcAAoJEPIClx2kp54scKsL/A1fbJraQ7OYbwd6fD48Nyh9 Q/JJtcCEWO/ZC8lIUzNIV18KG1iBpr0MrrAEhiPjaaqcDqSiuOFe2Nn/DTfI78jy GEgU/1IQ7fSl+cT7tJdNp6fQt1Baq++pEeEzM2/LHeeDz+wjGHt43WX6czL7WEaw gs1viVsI8arMcte/H+m2fIfIlj7tYai1oH8vACpzCyp5tx+mCfdXTdBZYE/kr5KO AmCDkb4NZnnbKlkm64LUrmjD65U5KJ43GZdpTsqIGJgQTi3kFrVrZzdj0O10yUqM sn6AHmT1VwiUEKgJRSRmLA3ySMCakgy/4wSJF/x4KIdAFaDoJrtnFZCZGkVxOquY AXzlCNStWpty/jS51IGUg4g+fTgtFeDfqArJE4zuRrXbS1AM84djVN8b7cW6hvQe gikMhuRJWTHIsNefbLp2y2T7+0Z84lO11x72VdYjzH5VcCAmpLJiXOzwvzL19d7B YtOBT5QJqIt8v9cH0op1M3WBHx79pKMNEy8VR/coDA== =OlI1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From unknown Sat Sep 06 02:03:26 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#22213: 24.5; please allow specification or elimination of timestamp in autoloads Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 16:01:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22213 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Glenn Morris Cc: David Bremner , 22213@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 22213-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22213.14507136057896 (code B ref 22213); Mon, 21 Dec 2015 16:01:01 +0000 Received: (at 22213) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Dec 2015 16:00:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59018 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aB2sX-00023F-Ao for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Dec 2015 11:00:05 -0500 Received: from pruche.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.22]:50021) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aB2sU-00022H-WF for 22213@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Dec 2015 11:00:03 -0500 Received: from fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by pruche.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id tBLFxv57013164; Mon, 21 Dec 2015 10:59:59 -0500 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id E6BC4AE49C; Mon, 21 Dec 2015 10:59:55 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <877fkauv8l.fsf@zancas.localnet> <874mfeusl9.fsf@zancas.localnet> <06zix4ab5w.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 10:59:55 -0500 In-Reply-To: <06zix4ab5w.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (Glenn Morris's message of "Sun, 20 Dec 2015 19:38:19 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV5527=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <5527> : inlines <4134> : streams <1557856> : uri <2105849> X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) > A question about the timestamps in loaddefs files: > Why do we need to store the last modtime for each input file? > Why can't we just compare current modtime of input file against that of > the loaddefs file itself? Is there a reason not to trust the latter? Right, now I remember: for lisp/loaddefs.el I think the timestamps wouldn't be needed and we could use the file's modtime instead. But for autoloads.el in general this is not true because of the existence of entry points such as update-file-autoloads which mean that the autoloads file may be updated for some of the files it covers rather than for all of them. Stefan From unknown Sat Sep 06 02:03:26 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#22213: 24.5; please allow specification or elimination of timestamp in autoloads Resent-From: Glenn Morris Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2016 07:43:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22213 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: David Bremner , 22213@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 22213-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22213.145215254615424 (code B ref 22213); Thu, 07 Jan 2016 07:43:01 +0000 Received: (at 22213) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jan 2016 07:42:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40817 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aH5DG-00040i-Dv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jan 2016 02:42:26 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:54626) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aH5DE-00040V-To for 22213@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jan 2016 02:42:25 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aH5D9-0003Hn-28 for 22213@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jan 2016 02:42:19 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:40018) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aH5D7-0003HT-QO; Thu, 07 Jan 2016 02:42:17 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aH5D4-0001qg-Pm; Thu, 07 Jan 2016 02:42:15 -0500 From: Glenn Morris References: <877fkauv8l.fsf@zancas.localnet> <874mfeusl9.fsf@zancas.localnet> <06zix4ab5w.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spook: FTS2000 Infrastructure security War on Terrorism computer X-Ran: ~+,@5U$GLE?Rn\rC_`J%q6-DK6a,&=W_%*1jal]oA:\UtW{6w!+G9a2sXmwtQpbL{/4DT@ X-Hue: cyan X-Attribution: GM Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2016 02:42:12 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Mon, 21 Dec 2015 10:59:55 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Stefan Monnier wrote: > But for autoloads.el in general this is not true because of the > existence of entry points such as update-file-autoloads which mean that > the autoloads file may be updated for some of the files it covers rather > than for all of them. I think there are a lot of cases (the majority?) where we know that this kind of partial update simply isn't going to happen. I added an option to use the output file's modtime instead. Seems to work ok for me, but I've left it using the previous method by default. From unknown Sat Sep 06 02:03:26 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#22213: 24.5; please allow specification or elimination of timestamp in autoloads Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2016 07:42:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22213 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Glenn Morris Cc: David Bremner , 22213@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 22213-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22213.145223891816702 (code B ref 22213); Fri, 08 Jan 2016 07:42:02 +0000 Received: (at 22213) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jan 2016 07:41:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42209 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aHRgL-0004LK-Q8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2016 02:41:57 -0500 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:7260) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aHRgJ-0004L6-AK for 22213@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2016 02:41:55 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0A2FgA731xV/xQDr7hcgxCEAoVVwwsEAgKBPDwRAQEBAQEBAYEKQQWDXQEBAwFWIxALDiYSFBgNJIg3CM8jAQEBAQYBAQEBHos6hQUHhC0FjDCSZ4NriiuGEoFFI4IKHBWBWyCCeAEBAQ X-IPAS-Result: A0A2FgA731xV/xQDr7hcgxCEAoVVwwsEAgKBPDwRAQEBAQEBAYEKQQWDXQEBAwFWIxALDiYSFBgNJIg3CM8jAQEBAQYBAQEBHos6hQUHhC0FjDCSZ4NriiuGEoFFI4IKHBWBWyCCeAEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,465,1427774400"; d="scan'208";a="187727367" Received: from 184-175-3-20.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO ceviche.home) ([184.175.3.20]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 08 Jan 2016 02:41:49 -0500 Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 42B986613F; Fri, 8 Jan 2016 02:41:49 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <877fkauv8l.fsf@zancas.localnet> <874mfeusl9.fsf@zancas.localnet> <06zix4ab5w.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2016 02:41:49 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Thu, 07 Jan 2016 02:42:12 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) >> But for autoloads.el in general this is not true because of the >> existence of entry points such as update-file-autoloads which mean that >> the autoloads file may be updated for some of the files it covers rather >> than for all of them. > I think there are a lot of cases (the majority?) where we know that this > kind of partial update simply isn't going to happen. Definitely. I've never seen entry points like update-file-autoloads being used. I think autoloads.el would benefit greatly from getting rid of such entry points (they significantly complicate the code, in my experience, and they're very rarely used, if ever). Stefan From unknown Sat Sep 06 02:03:26 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#22213: 24.5; please allow specification or elimination of timestamp in autoloads Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2016 14:55:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22213 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier , Glenn Morris Cc: David Bremner , 22213@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 22213-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22213.14522648454517 (code B ref 22213); Fri, 08 Jan 2016 14:55:01 +0000 Received: (at 22213) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jan 2016 14:54:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42438 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aHYQX-0001An-L5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2016 09:54:05 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:26606) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aHYQV-0001AH-Ag for 22213@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2016 09:54:03 -0500 Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u08ErtF3028472 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Jan 2016 14:53:56 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u08ErtuY026627 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Jan 2016 14:53:55 GMT Received: from abhmp0009.oracle.com (abhmp0009.oracle.com [141.146.116.15]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u08ErrQU011312; Fri, 8 Jan 2016 14:53:54 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <469430c1-8648-4714-9f33-6d3373b4f6f3@default> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 06:53:52 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <877fkauv8l.fsf@zancas.localnet> <874mfeusl9.fsf@zancas.localnet> <06zix4ab5w.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > >> But for autoloads.el in general this is not true because of the > >> existence of entry points such as update-file-autoloads which > >> mean that the autoloads file may be updated for some of the > >> files it covers rather than for all of them. > > > > I think there are a lot of cases (the majority?) where we know > > that this kind of partial update simply isn't going to happen. >=20 > Definitely. I've never seen entry points like update-file-autoloads > being used. I think autoloads.el would benefit greatly from getting > rid of such entry points (they significantly complicate the code, in > my experience, and they're very rarely used, if ever). (Caveat: I have not read this thread.) I think they're useful. I used to use them a lot, but in my present situation I do not. What makes you think that they are not useful and are not used? What's the problem with keeping this functionality for users who might find it useful? Why do they "significantly complicate the code" more now than 10 or 20 or 30 years ago? Why would they be less useful now than in the past? Why is this different in principle from, say, being able to create a tags file for only a given set of files or directories? From unknown Sat Sep 06 02:03:26 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: David Bremner Subject: bug#22213: closed (Re: bug#22213: 24.5; please allow specification or elimination of timestamp in autoloads) Message-ID: References: <877fkauv8l.fsf@zancas.localnet> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 22213 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 22213@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 22:38:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1464215882-18605-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1464215882-18605-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #22213: 24.5; please allow specification or elimination of timestamp in aut= oloads which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 22213@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 22213: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D22213 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1464215882-18605-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 22213-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2016 22:37:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39102 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1b5hR3-0004pl-DN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 May 2016 18:37:53 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:52204) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1b5hR1-0004pZ-UL for 22213-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 May 2016 18:37:52 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1b5hQv-0003O7-W8 for 22213-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 May 2016 18:37:46 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:57249) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1b5hQv-0003N4-St for 22213-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 May 2016 18:37:45 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1b5hQt-0003Q6-Qr; Wed, 25 May 2016 18:37:44 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: 22213-done@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#22213: 24.5; please allow specification or elimination of timestamp in autoloads References: <877fkauv8l.fsf@zancas.localnet> <874mfeusl9.fsf@zancas.localnet> <06zix4ab5w.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spook: La Familia Warning Phreaking SAPO Ft. Meade Electric NSA X-Ran: id];XRW2bdxf8X4`rPTrOK|f]:[`%!~_)Z>BX^e1an9v]Dz/M.,E=bU)LkR.njSBb^d==M X-Hue: red X-Attribution: GM Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 18:37:43 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Fri, 08 Jan 2016 02:41:49 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22213-done X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) Version: 25.2 There's now a variable autoload-timestamps for this, defaulting to nil. It will appear in whatever-next-release-from-master-is. ------------=_1464215882-18605-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Dec 2015 18:55:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57195 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aAMfX-0001SC-V7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 13:55:52 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:56326) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aAMfW-0001Rx-03 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 13:55:50 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aAMf7-0006a4-Ix for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 13:55:44 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:37471) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aAMf7-0006Zy-DC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 13:55:25 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46431) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aAMe9-0006Hm-Tv for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 13:55:25 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aAMc9-0005lT-IN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 13:54:25 -0500 Received: from fethera.tethera.net ([198.245.60.197]:39756) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aAMc9-0005jl-88 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 13:52:21 -0500 Received: from remotemail by fethera.tethera.net with local (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aAMbv-0001UY-7b; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 13:52:07 -0500 Received: (nullmailer pid 7875 invoked by uid 1000); Sat, 19 Dec 2015 18:52:10 -0000 From: David Bremner To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.5; please allow specification or elimination of timestamp in autoloads User-Agent: Notmuch/0.21+7~g55fb7da (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.5.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 14:52:10 -0400 Message-ID: <877fkauv8l.fsf@zancas.localnet> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) I'm maintaining a tool in debian that installs package.el packages so they can be managed by the system package system. For various reasons (see http://reproducible-builds.org for motivations) it is desirable if packages unpack into elpa directories in a reproducible (i.e. bit identical every time) way. Unfortunately update-directory-autoloads uses (current-time), which effectively means this unpacking is different every time. It would be nice to be able to override the time used, or perhaps eliminate the timestamp entirely. Currently I'm doing something like (defun dhelpa-autoload-insert-section-header (real-fun outbuf autoloads load-name file time) (funcall real-fun outbuf autoloads load-name file pkg-time)) (advice-add #'autoload-insert-section-header :around #'dhelpa-autoload-insert-section-header) (package--make-autoloads-and-stuff pkg-desc pkg-dir) (advice-remove #'autoload-insert-section-header #'dhelpa-autoload-insert-section-header) I'd prefer not to use advice here, since it makes things harder to debug, and it's depending on the internals of package--make-autoloads-and-stuff (of course calling the internal function is itself not great, but that's an orthogonal problem). In GNU Emacs 24.5.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.18.2) of 2015-10-24 on trouble, modified by Debian Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11703000 System Description: Debian GNU/Linux testing (stretch) Configured using: `configure --build x86_64-linux-gnu --prefix=/usr --sharedstatedir=/var/lib --libexecdir=/usr/lib --localstatedir=/var/lib --infodir=/usr/share/info --mandir=/usr/share/man --with-pop=yes --enable-locallisppath=/etc/emacs24:/etc/emacs:/usr/local/share/emacs/24.5/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/24.5/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp --build x86_64-linux-gnu --prefix=/usr --sharedstatedir=/var/lib --libexecdir=/usr/lib --localstatedir=/var/lib --infodir=/usr/share/info --mandir=/usr/share/man --with-pop=yes --enable-locallisppath=/etc/emacs24:/etc/emacs:/usr/local/share/emacs/24.5/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/24.5/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp --with-x=yes --with-x-toolkit=gtk3 --with-toolkit-scroll-bars 'CFLAGS=-g -O2 -fstack-protector-strong -Wformat -Werror=format-security -Wall' CPPFLAGS=-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 LDFLAGS=-Wl,-z,relro' Important settings: value of $LANG: en_CA.UTF-8 locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: Circe Channel Minor modes in effect: global-git-commit-mode: t shell-dirtrack-mode: t diff-auto-refine-mode: t tracking-mode: t tooltip-mode: t electric-indent-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t line-number-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t Recent messages: Mark set [2 times] Sending via mail... Sending...done End of buffer [2 times] widget-before-change: Text is read-only: "Attempt to change text outside editable field" [2 times] End of search results. Mark activated call-interactively: Text is read-only delete-backward-char: Text is read-only Making completion list... 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/usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/org/ob-ref /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/org-mode/org-macro hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/org/org-macro /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/org-mode/org hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/org/org /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/org-mode/ob-css hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/org/ob-css /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/org-mode/ob-shen hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/org/ob-shen /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/org-mode/org-irc hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/org/org-irc /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/org-mode/ob-sql hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/org/ob-sql /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/org-mode/org-element hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/org/org-element /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/org-mode/ob hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/org/ob /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/org-mode/ob-sqlite hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/org/ob-sqlite /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/org-mode/ox-publish hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/org/ox-publish /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/org-mode/ob-tangle hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/org/ob-tangle /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/org-mode/ob-lisp hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/org/ob-lisp /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/org-mode/ob-exp hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/org/ob-exp /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/org-mode/org-crypt hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/org/org-crypt /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/org-mode/ob-perl hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/org/ob-perl /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/org-mode/org-src hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/org/org-src /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/org-mode/ox-icalendar hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/org/ox-icalendar /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/org-mode/org-loaddefs hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/org/org-loaddefs /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/org-mode/ob-ocaml hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/org/ob-ocaml /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/org-mode/ox-ascii hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/org/ox-ascii /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/org-mode/ob-R hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/org/ob-R /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/org-mode/ob-C hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/org/ob-C /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/org-mode/org-version hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/org/org-version /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/org-mode/ob-asymptote hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/org/ob-asymptote /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/org-mode/org-habit hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/org/org-habit /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/org-mode/ob-matlab hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/org/ob-matlab /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/org-mode/ox-org hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/org/ox-org /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/org-mode/ox-man hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/org/ox-man /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/org-mode/ob-calc hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/org/ob-calc /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/org-mode/org-feed hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/org/org-feed /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/flim/sasl-cram hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/net/sasl-cram /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/flim/sasl hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/net/sasl /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/flim/sasl-digest hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/net/sasl-digest /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/flim/sasl-ntlm hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/net/sasl-ntlm /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/flim/hmac-def hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/net/hmac-def /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/flim/hmac-md5 hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/net/hmac-md5 /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/flim/ntlm hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/net/ntlm /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/prv-emacs hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/prv-emacs /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/context-nl hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/context-nl /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/tex-style hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-style /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/font-latex hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/font-latex /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/tex-mik hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-mik /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/tex-bar hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-bar /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/tex hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/tex /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/context-en hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/context-en /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/tex-jp hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-jp /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/tex-font hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-font /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/tex-buf hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-buf /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/bib-cite hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/bib-cite /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/tex-info hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-info /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/plain-tex hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/plain-tex /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/texmathp hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/texmathp /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/preview hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/preview /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/context hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/context /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/tex-fold hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-fold /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/multi-prompt hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/multi-prompt /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/toolbar-x hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/toolbar-x /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/latex hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/latex Features: (shadow emacsbug whitespace lisp-mnt pp cperl-mode misearch multi-isearch mm-uu mml2015 nnheader apropos eieio-opt speedbar sb-image ezimage dframe debug debian-bug debian-changelog-mode org-capture macros markdown-mode shr-color linum magit-version magit-blame magit-stash magit-bisect magit-remote magit-commit magit-sequence magit magit-apply magit-wip magit-log magit-diff smerge-mode magit-core magit-process magit-popup magit-mode magit-git magit-section magit-utils git-commit log-edit pcvs-util add-log with-editor tramp-sh tramp tramp-compat auth-source eieio eieio-core tramp-loaddefs cl-macs trampver shell js2-mode js2-old-indent js byte-opt bytecomp byte-compile cconv json cc-mode cc-fonts cc-guess cc-menus cc-cmds cc-styles cc-align cc-engine cc-vars cc-defs imenu sgml-mode org-clock view cal-china lunar solar cal-dst cal-bahai cal-islam cal-hebrew holidays hol-loaddefs cal-iso vc-git org-rmail org-mhe org-irc org-info org-gnus org-docview doc-view jka-compr image-mode dired org-bibtex bibtex org-bbdb org-w3m org-agenda qp sort company-files company-oddmuse company-keywords company-etags etags company-gtags company-dabbrev-code company-dabbrev company-capf company-cmake company-ropemacs company-xcode company-clang company-semantic company-eclim company-template company-css company-nxml company-bbdb company gnus-util mail-extr mm-archive shr browse-url mule-util edmacro kmacro notmuch-jump notmuch hl-line notmuch-message notmuch-maildir-fcc notmuch-hello wid-edit notmuch-tree notmuch-show notmuch-print notmuch-crypto notmuch-mua notmuch-address notmuch-company notmuch-parser notmuch-wash diff-mode coolj notmuch-query goto-addr icalendar diary-lib diary-loaddefs notmuch-tag crm notmuch-lib notmuch-version cl gv message sendmail rfc822 mml mailabbrev mail-utils gmm-utils mailheader mm-view mml-smime mml-sec smime password-cache dig mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mailcap mail-parse rfc2231 rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mm-util mail-prsvr cl-extra server tempo org-notmuch org-element avl-tree org org-macro org-footnote org-pcomplete pcomplete org-list org-faces org-entities time-date noutline outline org-version ob-emacs-lisp ob ob-tangle ob-ref ob-lob ob-table ob-exp org-src ob-keys ob-comint comint ansi-color ob-core ob-eval org-compat org-macs org-loaddefs format-spec find-func cal-menu calendar cal-loaddefs rx vc vc-dispatcher circe-color-nicks color circe-chanop circe advice help-fns lui-irc-colors irc make-tls-process tls lcs lui-format lui tracking cl-loaddefs cl-lib shorten thingatpt paren help-mode flyspell ispell ring circe-compat info easymenu finder-inf package epg-config debian-el debian-el-loaddefs org-install emacs-goodies-el emacs-goodies-custom emacs-goodies-loaddefs easy-mmode dpkg-dev-el dpkg-dev-el-loaddefs dash-functional dash preview-latex tex-site auto-loads tooltip electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel x-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list newcomment lisp-mode prog-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev minibuffer nadvice loaddefs button faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote make-network-process dbusbind gfilenotify dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 1091474 152776) (symbols 48 51492 0) (miscs 40 12970 4097) (strings 32 164752 34578) (string-bytes 1 5101678) (vectors 16 61496) (vector-slots 8 1692108 45087) (floats 8 2751 2648) (intervals 56 73412 1686) (buffers 960 140) (heap 1024 85890 4651)) ------------=_1464215882-18605-1-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Oct 17 02:21:18 2016 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Oct 2016 06:21:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35940 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bw1IU-0001my-FG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 02:21:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:41661) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bw1IT-0001ml-2X for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 02:21:17 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bw1IN-0007Bq-Ey for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 02:21:12 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:38978) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bw1IN-0007Bl-Bl for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 02:21:11 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1bw1IN-0001hF-0A for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 02:21:11 -0400 Subject: control message for bug 22213 To: X-Mailer: mail (GNU Mailutils 2.99.98) Message-Id: From: Glenn Morris Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 02:21:11 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) unarchive 22213 fixed 22213 26.1 notfixed 22213 25.2