From unknown Tue Jun 17 20:40:47 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#22104 <22104@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#22104 <22104@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 25.1.50; doc string of `modify-frame-parameters' Reply-To: bug#22104 <22104@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2025 03:40:47 +0000 retitle 22104 25.1.50; doc string of `modify-frame-parameters' reassign 22104 emacs submitter 22104 Drew Adams severity 22104 minor tag 22104 fixed thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 06 22:58:43 2015 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Dec 2015 03:58:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41146 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1a5mwk-0004wR-OH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Dec 2015 22:58:43 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:51758) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1a5mwP-0004vz-QJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Dec 2015 22:58:40 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a5mwO-0004FA-JT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Dec 2015 22:58:21 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,XPRIO autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:33331) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a5mwO-0004F6-GH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Dec 2015 22:58:20 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33531) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a5mwN-0005oA-Oe for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Dec 2015 22:58:20 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a5mwK-0004Es-IW for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Dec 2015 22:58:19 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:47665) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a5mwK-0004En-Bf for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Dec 2015 22:58:16 -0500 Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id tB73wDBr012019 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 7 Dec 2015 03:58:14 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id tB73wDw1013038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 7 Dec 2015 03:58:13 GMT Received: from abhmp0010.oracle.com (abhmp0010.oracle.com [141.146.116.16]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id tB73wC2T005387 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 2015 03:58:12 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 19:58:11 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 25.1.50; doc string of `modify-frame-parameters' X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) This part of the doc string is unclear: Undefined PARMs are ignored, but stored in the frame's parameter list so that 'frame-parameters' will return them. What does "ignored" mean here? It can only mean (?) ignored by `modify-parameters', but what does that mean, operationally? The rest of the sentence would lead you to think that `modify-parameters' nevertheless updates the parameter list for=20 "ignored" parameters. But then in what way are they ignored? In GNU Emacs 25.1.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2015-12-04 Bzr revision: ffefb6e899fbcdcbd79cb34292d57b7bc3043fcc Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --prefix=3D/c/Devel/emacs/snapshot/trunk --enable-checking=3Dye= s --enable-check-lisp-object-type --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=3D-Og -ggdb3' LDFLAGS=3D-Lc:/Devel/emacs/lib 'CPPFLAGS=3D-DGC_MCHECK=3D1 -Ic:/Devel/emacs/include'' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 07 12:17:32 2015 Received: (at 22104) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Dec 2015 17:17:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41932 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1a5zPo-0002wU-DS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:17:32 -0500 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:51936) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1a5zPU-0002w4-R0 for 22104@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:17:31 -0500 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NYZ00400ZSQVY00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 22104@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Dec 2015 19:17:10 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.94.185.246]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NZ0004E700MWD00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Mon, 07 Dec 2015 19:17:10 +0200 (IST) Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2015 19:17:06 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#22104: 25.1.50; doc string of `modify-frame-parameters' In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Drew Adams Message-id: <831taydvql.fsf@gnu.org> References: X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22104 Cc: 22104@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) > Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 19:58:11 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > > This part of the doc string is unclear: > > Undefined PARMs are ignored, but stored in the frame's parameter list > so that 'frame-parameters' will return them. > > What does "ignored" mean here? It can only mean (?) ignored by > `modify-parameters', but what does that mean, operationally? It means they have no effect beyond being stored in the parameter list. I will clarify that. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 07 12:34:35 2015 Received: (at 22104) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Dec 2015 17:34:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41938 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1a5zgJ-0003Lq-9Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:34:35 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:37151) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1a5zgH-0003Li-Kd for 22104@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:34:34 -0500 Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id tB7HYVf8012810 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 7 Dec 2015 17:34:32 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id tB7HYUVc020849 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Dec 2015 17:34:30 GMT Received: from abhmp0002.oracle.com (abhmp0002.oracle.com [141.146.116.8]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id tB7HYTd2028107; Mon, 7 Dec 2015 17:34:30 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <95bedfbe-5686-4a79-9fd3-561d927986d3@default> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 09:34:28 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#22104: 25.1.50; doc string of `modify-frame-parameters' References: <> <<831taydvql.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<831taydvql.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22104 Cc: 22104@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > > This part of the doc string is unclear: > > > > Undefined PARMs are ignored, but stored in the frame's parameter list > > so that 'frame-parameters' will return them. > > > > What does "ignored" mean here? It can only mean (?) ignored by > > `modify-parameters', but what does that mean, operationally? >=20 > It means they have no effect beyond being stored in the parameter > list. I will clarify that. But I still don't understand, from that description. What else does `modify-frame-parameters' ever do, besides store them in the parameter list? Am I missing something? (I thought the doc in the manual was enough.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 07 12:51:23 2015 Received: (at 22104) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Dec 2015 17:51:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41956 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1a5zwZ-0003ln-FX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:51:23 -0500 Received: from mtaout26.012.net.il ([80.179.55.182]:45921) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1a5zwW-0003lc-WB for 22104@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:51:21 -0500 Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout26.012.net.il by mtaout26.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NZ000O001M3LS00@mtaout26.012.net.il> for 22104@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Dec 2015 19:53:15 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.94.185.246]) by mtaout26.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NZ000NZ71OQRT00@mtaout26.012.net.il>; Mon, 07 Dec 2015 19:53:15 +0200 (IST) Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2015 19:50:37 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#22104: 25.1.50; doc string of `modify-frame-parameters' In-reply-to: <95bedfbe-5686-4a79-9fd3-561d927986d3@default> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Drew Adams Message-id: <83wpsqcfma.fsf@gnu.org> References: <831taydvql.fsf@gnu.org> <95bedfbe-5686-4a79-9fd3-561d927986d3@default> X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22104 Cc: 22104@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) > Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 09:34:28 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 22104@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > This part of the doc string is unclear: > > > > > > Undefined PARMs are ignored, but stored in the frame's parameter list > > > so that 'frame-parameters' will return them. > > > > > > What does "ignored" mean here? It can only mean (?) ignored by > > > `modify-parameters', but what does that mean, operationally? > > > > It means they have no effect beyond being stored in the parameter > > list. I will clarify that. > > But I still don't understand, from that description. What else > does `modify-frame-parameters' ever do, besides store them in the > parameter list? Quite a few parameters require modify-frame-parameters to call some API in order to put the parameter in effect. For example, background-color -- just storing the new value won't magically change the color, would it? IOW, modify-frame-parameters is not just for altering the params alist, it is primarily for changing the frame according to the changed parameters; it records the parameters in effect in the alist mostly as a side effect. Yes, "modify the frame parameters" is ambiguous. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 07 13:07:55 2015 Received: (at 22104) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Dec 2015 18:07:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41967 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1a60CZ-0005nD-F4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Dec 2015 13:07:55 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:21780) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1a60CX-0005n4-5x for 22104@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Dec 2015 13:07:53 -0500 Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id tB7I7p08024658 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 7 Dec 2015 18:07:52 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id tB7I7pn4009602 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Dec 2015 18:07:51 GMT Received: from abhmp0002.oracle.com (abhmp0002.oracle.com [141.146.116.8]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id tB7I7oEv008947; Mon, 7 Dec 2015 18:07:50 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <61eaf86f-4a08-480e-bf3d-8f32b40152d7@default> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 10:07:49 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#22104: 25.1.50; doc string of `modify-frame-parameters' References: <> <<831taydvql.fsf@gnu.org>> <<95bedfbe-5686-4a79-9fd3-561d927986d3@default>> <<83wpsqcfma.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83wpsqcfma.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22104 Cc: 22104@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > > > > This part of the doc string is unclear: > > > > > > > > Undefined PARMs are ignored, but stored in the frame's parameter > list > > > > so that 'frame-parameters' will return them. > > > > > > > > What does "ignored" mean here? It can only mean (?) ignored by > > > > `modify-parameters', but what does that mean, operationally? > > > > > > It means they have no effect beyond being stored in the parameter > > > list. I will clarify that. > > > > But I still don't understand, from that description. What else > > does `modify-frame-parameters' ever do, besides store them in the > > parameter list? >=20 > Quite a few parameters require modify-frame-parameters to call some > API in order to put the parameter in effect. For example, > background-color -- just storing the new value won't magically change > the color, would it? >=20 > IOW, modify-frame-parameters is not just for altering the params > alist, it is primarily for changing the frame according to the changed > parameters; it records the parameters in effect in the alist mostly as > a side effect. >=20 > Yes, "modify the frame parameters" is ambiguous. OK, so I guess the point is that unrecognized (perhaps a better term than "= undefined", here) parameters are simply stored in the frame's parameter list. No extra handling is done. I think that statement can just be removed. No one would guess that any special, additional action would be undertaken for a parameter that Emacs does not recognize. Talking about this just confuses readers. Users should know that they can add any parameters they want, which are unknown to Emacs. But because Emacs knows nothing about them it is up to a user to provide any expected behavior for them. It is important to say that users can add their own parameters. And I guess it is helpful to add that Emacs does not do anything with them (unless the user programs it to do so). But if we can't do that without confusing readers more, then this addition should be dropped, IMO. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 07 13:26:55 2015 Received: (at 22104) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Dec 2015 18:26:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42000 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1a60Ux-0007vm-2E for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Dec 2015 13:26:55 -0500 Received: from mtaout29.012.net.il ([80.179.55.185]:54592) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1a60Uc-0007vH-Jb for 22104@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Dec 2015 13:26:53 -0500 Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout29.012.net.il by mtaout29.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NZ000800361EE00@mtaout29.012.net.il> for 22104@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Dec 2015 20:26:29 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.94.185.246]) by mtaout29.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NZ0006PS384JQ10@mtaout29.012.net.il>; Mon, 07 Dec 2015 20:26:28 +0200 (IST) Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2015 20:26:24 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#22104: 25.1.50; doc string of `modify-frame-parameters' In-reply-to: <61eaf86f-4a08-480e-bf3d-8f32b40152d7@default> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Drew Adams Message-id: <83twnucdyn.fsf@gnu.org> References: <831taydvql.fsf@gnu.org> <95bedfbe-5686-4a79-9fd3-561d927986d3@default> <83wpsqcfma.fsf@gnu.org> <61eaf86f-4a08-480e-bf3d-8f32b40152d7@default> X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22104 Cc: 22104@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) > Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 10:07:49 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 22104@debbugs.gnu.org > > I think that statement can just be removed. I believe this feature is used to make "frame-local" variables. So removing that sentence will lose information. > No one would guess that any special, additional action would be > undertaken for a parameter that Emacs does not recognize. But it could well barf for such a parameter, at least in principle. So that sentence does add useful information. > It is important to say that users can add their own parameters. > > And I guess it is helpful to add that Emacs does not do anything > with them (unless the user programs it to do so). But if we can't > do that without confusing readers more, then this addition should > be dropped, IMO. Oh, I think we have all the technology necessary to say that in a way that won't confuse users. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 07 14:16:21 2015 Received: (at 22104) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Dec 2015 19:16:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42022 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1a61Gm-0002IF-OB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Dec 2015 14:16:21 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:26866) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1a61Gl-0002I8-ED for 22104@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Dec 2015 14:16:19 -0500 Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id tB7JGIeb017323 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 7 Dec 2015 19:16:18 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id tB7JGIV0031544 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Dec 2015 19:16:18 GMT Received: from abhmp0002.oracle.com (abhmp0002.oracle.com [141.146.116.8]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id tB7JGHn5028185; Mon, 7 Dec 2015 19:16:17 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <0c2612d1-bce2-4c8e-82f0-f50d585cd9af@default> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 11:16:16 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#22104: 25.1.50; doc string of `modify-frame-parameters' References: <> <<831taydvql.fsf@gnu.org>> <<95bedfbe-5686-4a79-9fd3-561d927986d3@default>> <<83wpsqcfma.fsf@gnu.org>> <<61eaf86f-4a08-480e-bf3d-8f32b40152d7@default>> <<83twnucdyn.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83twnucdyn.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 22104 Cc: 22104@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > > I think that statement can just be removed. >=20 > I believe this feature is used to make "frame-local" variables. So > removing that sentence will lose information. How so? Is that explained somewhere (e.g. in the manual)? I know nothing about this, and the statement in the doc string leaves me clueless. > > No one would guess that any special, additional action would be > > undertaken for a parameter that Emacs does not recognize. >=20 > But it could well barf for such a parameter, at least in principle. > So that sentence does add useful information. Really? That would be a bug, no? Why should it not accept a user-supplied parameter? As for that sentence adding useful info - I cannot agree. Frankly, it just confuses me. When you say that Emacs might barf, given a parameter it doesn't recognize, that is not at all conveyed by a statement that Emacs doesn't do anything with it except store it as a frame parameter. Sorry, but this is not at all clear to me now - neither what Emacs really does (possibly barfs?) nor how that statement is supposed to help understanding (including about frame-local vars and the possibility that Emacs might barf). > > It is important to say that users can add their own parameters. > > > > And I guess it is helpful to add that Emacs does not do anything > > with them (unless the user programs it to do so). But if we can't > > do that without confusing readers more, then this addition should > > be dropped, IMO. >=20 > Oh, I think we have all the technology necessary to say that in a way > that won't confuse users. OK, I trust you will; thanks. You've heard my concerns/confusions, at least. Maybe they will help you decide what to say, and how. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jun 04 09:16:30 2017 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jun 2017 13:16:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54744 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dHVOQ-0005vr-17 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Jun 2017 09:16:30 -0400 Received: from mail-it0-f51.google.com ([209.85.214.51]:38098) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dHVOO-0005vc-B1; Sun, 04 Jun 2017 09:16:28 -0400 Received: by mail-it0-f51.google.com with SMTP id r63so54886826itc.1; Sun, 04 Jun 2017 06:16:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:to:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=h7VkPke5/AC10O88QeGDG9kfYKuMir2R1hk8GXmVtbQ=; b=b6R9YhRVexynlidv5DWOQLc8SoI3h1c977q6MpZacbq2n8JNWdmq3oumwfLWfC8wei ZJE2aLj1OxwerZ0EJKl4QdFA/5wnzGkNNA9xd6417smnr2ZKsDDfwE1V8A8Q3xuz/tVh AIc5zP9HP+AJQ0tvQtDaqQgK+XLEucLk6/PEUtprLgtXXyqo6tVn2HvAFIL99y3GUz4v Ri9CDyc3MebE8waHqX39n/Fh8c1pTdaQKlTN4fsOHQNj0vtT5yjHsUo2Plnfrxtov5Zb kdVlVFFFWnPSyRvBRBafiWLdz9ZEem8OXrvIPlw6Ii/OFLgubvyS21JpBPasnv1DZpUV vD2A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:subject:references:date :in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=h7VkPke5/AC10O88QeGDG9kfYKuMir2R1hk8GXmVtbQ=; b=U48yvfFNk9ge/f9Vk5YwWM9x4NrjwLqdIhLRwVHr5n+pGs/YwALTD0BhjH03QNb3oV uvms+/yBwZBkq7vpiHGE/3v6Cd6vUFOGamExBTqzmuks4Ape4fbTn+qAOLUjoFqFnuSr CH/dy/IDtXp3cy2r8CcWKWa2jWszaqGeZvxLgMtUQSHex9AAJL9XD3Q9vRbomTPeghsn pl0G93uazdOVXJh8xAo/+JHmLA8ZJkJUvHP36pu/GEn5PKzXL8renWJAQklFgl7HTLkN gDBdkQSxmLrZfUgqPhJDYwqjCKePTqyTgxvmflrh7363xFPXP48EN1wC2os0yXLUyFIz 4jUw== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcActD18vQWZRPPKux+lF4Ow+M2DA+Op5G0l8rsUXqnZg4I2cvEs oiP/fZThRqDCzvwx X-Received: by 10.107.162.132 with SMTP id l126mr16493101ioe.91.1496582182618; Sun, 04 Jun 2017 06:16:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zony ([45.2.7.65]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id n3sm3511520itg.3.2017.06.04.06.16.21 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sun, 04 Jun 2017 06:16:22 -0700 (PDT) From: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net To: 22104-quiet@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#22104: 25.1.50; doc string of `modify-frame-parameters' References: > <831taydvql.fsf@gnu.org>> <95bedfbe-5686-4a79-9fd3-561d927986d3@default>> <83wpsqcfma.fsf@gnu.org>> <61eaf86f-4a08-480e-bf3d-8f32b40152d7@default>> <83twnucdyn.fsf@gnu.org>> <0c2612d1-bce2-4c8e-82f0-f50d585cd9af@default> Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2017 09:18:00 -0400 In-Reply-To: <0c2612d1-bce2-4c8e-82f0-f50d585cd9af@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 7 Dec 2015 11:16:16 -0800 (PST)") Message-ID: <87lgp7zybb.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.2.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) tags 22104 fixed close 22104 25.2 quit Drew Adams writes: >> Oh, I think we have all the technology necessary to say that in a way >> that won't confuse users. > > OK, I trust you will; thanks. You've heard my concerns/confusions, > at least. Maybe they will help you decide what to say, and how. It was done in [1: 1db9d8bd0f]. [1: 1db9d8bd0f]: 2015-12-11 10:46:18 +0200 Clarify documentation of 'modify-frame-parameters' http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/commit/?id=1db9d8bd0fb41bda3cc8027ec0cf27aade71b400 From unknown Tue Jun 17 20:40:47 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 11:24:03 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator