GNU bug report logs - #21310
25.0.50; Alt-[ unavailable until C-x 8 [ used

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 25.0.50; Alt-[ unavailable until C-x 8 [ used
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 12:22:18 +0300

See the subject line: the Alt-[ etc. bindings are not available until
you type "C-x 8 [" the first time, or manually load iso-transl.  This
is because iso-transl-ctl-x-8-map is autoloaded, but the Alt- bindings
are only defined when iso-transl is loaded.  I think this is
confusing, especially as we now advertise Alt-[ etc. as a means to
type curve quotes.

Is it possible to autoload the Alt- bindings as well?  Or maybe we
should simply preload iso-transl?


In GNU Emacs 25.0.50.359 (i686-pc-mingw32)
 of 2015-08-21 on HOME-C4E4A596F7
Repository revision: ff2f35fc478d0047fef4ae3e0b09f43c37961bec
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600
Configured using:
 `configure --prefix=/d/usr --enable-checking=yes,glyphs --with-wide-int
 'CFLAGS=-gdwarf-4 -g3 -O0''

Configured features:
XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG SOUND NOTIFY ACL GNUTLS LIBXML2 ZLIB
TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS

Important settings:
  value of $LANG: ENU
  locale-coding-system: cp1255

Major mode: Lisp Interaction

Minor modes in effect:
  tooltip-mode: t
  global-eldoc-mode: t
  electric-indent-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  tool-bar-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Recent messages:
For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a.
Mark set
A-[ is undefined [2 times]
‘ (translated from A-[) runs the command self-insert-command

Load-path shadows:
None found.

Features:
(shadow sort gnus-util mail-extr emacsbug message dired format-spec
rfc822 mml mml-sec mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231
mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums
mm-util help-fns help-mode easymenu cl-loaddefs pcase cl-lib mail-prsvr
mail-utils iso-transl time-date mule-util tooltip eldoc electric
uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel dos-w32 ls-lisp
disp-table w32-win w32-vars term/common-win tool-bar dnd fontset image
regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list newcomment elisp-mode lisp-mode
prog-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar
mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cl-generic cham
georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao
korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech
european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese charscript case-table epa-hook
jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev minibuffer cl-preloaded nadvice
loaddefs button faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay
sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget
hashtable-print-readable backquote w32notify w32 multi-tty
make-network-process emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 87101 9168)
 (symbols 56 19943 0)
 (miscs 48 37 149)
 (strings 16 16186 6116)
 (string-bytes 1 393967)
 (vectors 16 11392)
 (vector-slots 8 403417 5641)
 (floats 8 125 119)
 (intervals 40 271 96)
 (buffers 856 11))

Message #8 received at 21310 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 21310 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#21310: 25.0.50; Alt-[ unavailable until C-x 8 [ used
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2020 12:13:16 +0100

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

> See the subject line: the Alt-[ etc. bindings are not available until
> you type "C-x 8 [" the first time, or manually load iso-transl.  This
> is because iso-transl-ctl-x-8-map is autoloaded, but the Alt- bindings
> are only defined when iso-transl is loaded.  I think this is
> confusing, especially as we now advertise Alt-[ etc. as a means to
> type curve quotes.
>
> Is it possible to autoload the Alt- bindings as well?  Or maybe we
> should simply preload iso-transl?

My Alt key gives a Meta -- are the Alt bindings a Windows thing?

In any case, preloading iso-transl would be fine by me -- it's not a
very big file.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #11 received at 21310 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 21310 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#21310: 25.0.50; Alt-[ unavailable until C-x 8 [ used
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2020 17:26:51 +0200

> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
> Cc: 21310 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2020 12:13:16 +0100
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > See the subject line: the Alt-[ etc. bindings are not available until
> > you type "C-x 8 [" the first time, or manually load iso-transl.  This
> > is because iso-transl-ctl-x-8-map is autoloaded, but the Alt- bindings
> > are only defined when iso-transl is loaded.  I think this is
> > confusing, especially as we now advertise Alt-[ etc. as a means to
> > type curve quotes.
> >
> > Is it possible to autoload the Alt- bindings as well?  Or maybe we
> > should simply preload iso-transl?
> 
> My Alt key gives a Meta -- are the Alt bindings a Windows thing?

No, but you can use "C-x @ a" to "generate" the Alt modifier.

Message #14 received at 21310 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 21310 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#21310: 25.0.50; Alt-[ unavailable until C-x 8 [ used
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 10:49:03 +0100

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

> No, but you can use "C-x @ a" to "generate" the Alt modifier.

Ah, right.

In any case, I think it's pretty inconsistent that `C-x 8' will (as a
side effect) make the `Alt-' bindings available, so I think it makes
sense to preload iso-transl so that things are more consistent.

So I've now done this on the trunk.  If people strenuously object,
though, I'm not married to the idea.  But then I think this should be
fixed so that `C-x 8' does not define the `Alt-' keystrokes, because
that's just an odd and not very logical interaction. 

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

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