Package: emacs;
Reported by: Pierre Lorenzon <devel <at> pollock-nageoire.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2015 06:13:01 UTC
Severity: normal
Done: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
Bug is archived. No further changes may be made.
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bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
:bug#20914
; Package emacs
.
(Sun, 28 Jun 2015 06:13:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.Pierre Lorenzon <devel <at> pollock-nageoire.net>
:bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
.
(Sun, 28 Jun 2015 06:13:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
From: Pierre Lorenzon <devel <at> pollock-nageoire.net> To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org Subject: eieio/slot/group Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2015 08:02:43 +0200 (CEST)
Following code : >>> -- Code (require 'eieio) (require 'cl) (defun slot-groups (class slot) (message "Slot `%s' of class `%s' has group `%s'" slot class (alist-get :group (cl--slot-descriptor-props (car-safe (member* slot (eieio-class-slots class) :test (lambda (s1 s2) (eq s1 (eieio-slot-descriptor-name s2)) ))))))) (defclass mybase () ((name :custom string :group ident)) ) (slot-groups 'mybase 'name) (defclass mysub (mybase) ((name :group history))) (slot-groups 'mysub 'name) (slot-groups 'mybase 'name) >>> -- End Code Produces following sequence of messages : >>> -- Messages Slot `name' of class `mybase' has group `(ident)' Slot `name' of class `mysub' has group `(history ident)' Slot `name' of class `mybase' has group `(history ident)' >>> -- End Messages As definition of mysub alterates definition of mybase. It should certainely not be the case ! Definition of a subclass might not change anything of the definition of the base classe. I suspect a list somewhere "taken as a pointer" and not copied hence altered when it should not ! I'll investigate. Pierre In GNU Emacs 25.0.50.1 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu) of 2015-06-28 on jabberwocky Repository revision: bbf63ee00a3c263e3190320bc389bf0b72a5a9d5 Configured using: `configure --prefix=/home/emacs' Configured features: JPEG SOUND NOTIFY ZLIB Important settings: value of $LANG: C locale-coding-system: nil Major mode: Messages Minor modes in effect: gpm-mouse-mode: t tooltip-mode: t global-eldoc-mode: t electric-indent-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t line-number-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t Recent messages: Saving file /home/emacs/Messages... Wrote /home/emacs/Messages Making completion list... [2 times] user-error: Beginning of history; no preceding item [2 times] Load-path shadows: /home/emacs/share/emacs/site-lisp/edext/latex/regexp hides /home/emacs/share/emacs/site-lisp/edext/utils/regexp /home/emacs/share/emacs/site-lisp/jabberwocky/basic/interfaces/j++-pointed hides /home/emacs/share/emacs/site-lisp/jabberwocky/basic/lists/j++-pointed /home/emacs/share/emacs/site-lisp/jabberwocky/basic/interfaces/j++-interface hides /home/emacs/share/emacs/site-lisp/jabberwocky/basic/misc/j++-interface /home/emacs/share/emacs/site-lisp/jabberwocky/basic/j++-synchronized hides /home/emacs/share/emacs/site-lisp/jabberwocky/basic/widgets/j++-synchronized /home/emacs/share/emacs/site-lisp/jabberwocky/basic/j++-timed hides /home/emacs/share/emacs/site-lisp/jabberwocky/basic/widgets/j++-timed /home/emacs/share/emacs/site-lisp/jabberwocky/basic/files/j++-file hides /home/emacs/share/emacs/site-lisp/jabberwocky/packages/project/j++-file 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bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
:bug#20914
; Package emacs
.
(Mon, 29 Jun 2015 04:42:01 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.Message #8 received at 20914 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
From: Pierre Lorenzon <devel <at> pollock-nageoire.net> To: 20914 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#20914: eieio/slot/group Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 06:31:37 +0200 (CEST)
OK situation seems to be worth than I thought. The following code : >>> -- More complete code (require 'eieio) (require 'cl) (defvar slot-props '(:group :custom :label :documentation)) (defun slot-prop (class slot prop) (message "Slot `%s' of class `%s' has `%s' `%s'" slot class prop (alist-get prop (cl--slot-descriptor-props (car-safe (member* slot (eieio-class-slots class) :test (lambda (s1 s2) (eq s1 (eieio-slot-descriptor-name s2)) ))))))) (defun slot-props-msg (class) (mapc (lambda (prop) (slot-prop class 'name prop)) slot-props)) (defclass mybase () ((name :custom string :group ident :label "Name" :documentation "My name")) ) (slot-props-msg 'mybase) (defclass mysub (mybase) ((name :group history :custom item :label "Your real name" :documentation "A suitable name"))) (slot-props-msg 'mysub) (slot-props-msg 'mybase) >>> -- End More complete code produces following sequence of messages : >>> -- Messages Slot `name' of class `mybase' has `:group' `(ident)' Slot `name' of class `mybase' has `:custom' `string' Slot `name' of class `mybase' has `:label' `Name' Slot `name' of class `mybase' has `:documentation' `My name' Slot `name' of class `mysub' has `:group' `(history ident)' Slot `name' of class `mysub' has `:custom' `item' Slot `name' of class `mysub' has `:label' `Your real name' Slot `name' of class `mysub' has `:documentation' `A suitable name' Slot `name' of class `mybase' has `:group' `(history ident)' Slot `name' of class `mybase' has `:custom' `item' Slot `name' of class `mybase' has `:label' `Your real name' Slot `name' of class `mybase' has `:documentation' `A suitable name' >>> -- End Messages In fact not only property group but documentation, label and even custom have been modified in superclass by definition of subclass. Things probably lie in `eieio--slot-override' in eieio-core.el or maybe in call of this function. Regards Pierre From: Pierre Lorenzon <devel <at> pollock-nageoire.net> Subject: bug#20914: eieio/slot/group Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2015 08:02:43 +0200 (CEST) > > Following code : > >>>> -- Code > > (require 'eieio) > (require 'cl) > > (defun slot-groups (class slot) > (message "Slot `%s' of class `%s' has group `%s'" > slot class > (alist-get :group > (cl--slot-descriptor-props > (car-safe > (member* slot > (eieio-class-slots class) > :test (lambda (s1 s2) > (eq s1 > (eieio-slot-descriptor-name s2)) > ))))))) > (defclass mybase () > ((name :custom string > :group ident)) > ) > > (slot-groups 'mybase 'name) > > (defclass mysub (mybase) > ((name :group history))) > > (slot-groups 'mysub 'name) > > (slot-groups 'mybase 'name) > >>>> -- End Code > > Produces following sequence of messages : > >>>> -- Messages > > Slot `name' of class `mybase' has group `(ident)' > Slot `name' of class `mysub' has group `(history ident)' > Slot `name' of class `mybase' has group `(history ident)' > >>>> -- End Messages > > > As definition of mysub alterates definition of mybase. It > should certainely not be the case ! Definition of a subclass > might not change anything of the definition of the base classe. > > > I suspect a list somewhere "taken as a pointer" and not copied > hence altered when it should not ! I'll investigate. > > Pierre > > In GNU Emacs 25.0.50.1 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu) > of 2015-06-28 on jabberwocky > Repository revision: bbf63ee00a3c263e3190320bc389bf0b72a5a9d5 > Configured using: > `configure --prefix=/home/emacs' > > Configured features: > JPEG SOUND NOTIFY ZLIB > > Important settings: > value of $LANG: C > locale-coding-system: nil > > Major mode: Messages > > Minor modes in effect: > gpm-mouse-mode: t > tooltip-mode: t > global-eldoc-mode: t > electric-indent-mode: t > menu-bar-mode: t > file-name-shadow-mode: t > global-font-lock-mode: t > font-lock-mode: t > auto-composition-mode: t > auto-encryption-mode: t > auto-compression-mode: t > line-number-mode: t > transient-mark-mode: t > > Recent messages: > > Saving file /home/emacs/Messages... > Wrote /home/emacs/Messages > Making completion list... 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/home/emacs/share/emacs/site-lisp/jabberwocky/packages/generator/clfs/data/2.1.0/10.04 hides /home/emacs/share/emacs/site-lisp/jabberwocky/packages/generator/clfs/data/development/10.04 > /home/emacs/share/emacs/site-lisp/jabberwocky/packages/generator/clfs/data/2.1.0/gcc hides /home/emacs/share/emacs/site-lisp/jabberwocky/packages/generator/clfs/data/development/gcc > /home/emacs/share/emacs/site-lisp/jabberwocky/packages/generator/clfs/data/2.1.0/05 hides /home/emacs/share/emacs/site-lisp/jabberwocky/packages/generator/clfs/data/development/05 > /home/emacs/share/emacs/site-lisp/jabberwocky/packages/generator/clfs/data/1.0.0/cross hides /home/emacs/share/emacs/site-lisp/jabberwocky/packages/generator/clfs/data/development/cross > /home/emacs/share/emacs/site-lisp/jabberwocky/packages/generator/clfs/data/2.1.0/07 hides /home/emacs/share/emacs/site-lisp/jabberwocky/packages/generator/clfs/data/development/07 > /home/emacs/share/emacs/site-lisp/jabberwocky/packages/generator/clfs/data/2.1.0/06 hides /home/emacs/share/emacs/site-lisp/jabberwocky/packages/generator/clfs/data/development/06 > /home/emacs/share/emacs/site-lisp/jabberwocky/packages/generator/clfs/data/1.0.0/data hides /home/emacs/share/emacs/site-lisp/jabberwocky/packages/generator/clfs/data/development/data > /home/emacs/share/emacs/site-lisp/jabberwocky/packages/generator/clfs/data/2.1.0/09 hides /home/emacs/share/emacs/site-lisp/jabberwocky/packages/generator/clfs/data/development/09 > /home/emacs/share/emacs/site-lisp/edext/utils/list hides /home/emacs/share/emacs/site-lisp/jabberwocky/packages/generator/lfs/scripts/chapter05/list > /home/emacs/share/emacs/site-lisp/edext/latex/replace hides /home/emacs/share/emacs/25.0.50/lisp/replace > > Features: > (shadow sort gnus-util mail-extr emacsbug message dired format-spec > rfc822 mml easymenu mml-sec mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse > rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader sendmail regexp-opt rfc2047 > rfc2045 ietf-drums mm-util help-fns mail-prsvr mail-utils cl-seq cl-macs > cl eieio byte-opt gv bytecomp byte-compile cl-extra seq cconv eieio-core > cl-loaddefs pcase cl-lib t-mouse time-date disp-table mule-util tooltip > eldoc electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type > tabulated-list newcomment elisp-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page > menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax > facemenu font-core frame cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang > vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 > hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic > chinese charscript case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev > minibuffer cl-preloaded nadvice loaddefs button faces cus-face macroexp > files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule > custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote inotify multi-tty > make-network-process emacs) > > Memory information: > ((conses 16 85783 4012) > (symbols 48 18834 0) > (miscs 40 64 124) > (strings 32 14933 4721) > (string-bytes 1 445196) > (vectors 16 10259) > (vector-slots 8 372316 9859) > (floats 8 134 307) > (intervals 56 789 90) > (buffers 976 14) > (heap 1024 17185 684)) > > >
bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
:bug#20914
; Package emacs
.
(Mon, 29 Jun 2015 17:40:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.Message #11 received at 20914 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
From: Pierre Lorenzon <devel <at> pollock-nageoire.net> To: 20914 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#20914: eieio/slot/group Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 19:29:52 +0200 (CEST)
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
OK I got it ! The problem comes from use of `copy-sequence' in `eieio-copy-parents-into-subclass' function of eieio-core. this copy is not reccursive as explained in code comment but it should be ! There's a joined patch that fixes the bug. Regards Pierre
[eieio-core-0629.patch (text/x-patch, inline)]
--- eieio-core..orig.el 2015-06-28 07:26:49.000000000 +0200 +++ eieio-core.el 2015-06-29 19:20:28.000000000 +0200 @@ -660,9 +660,32 @@ (let ((pslots (eieio--class-slots pcv)) (pinit (eieio--class-initarg-tuples pcv))) (dotimes (i (length pslots)) - (let* ((sd (cl--copy-slot-descriptor (aref pslots i))) + ;;; -- Props should be copied as well + ;;; PLN Mon Jun 29 17:25:54 2015 + ;; + ;; Due to the way `cl--copy-slot-descriptor' acts + ;; props in the copied object will not be a new + ;; sequence but a reference to the parent + ;; sequence. Hence when modifying this sequence + ;; parent slot props will be altered as well : and it + ;; SHOULD NOT ! + ;; + (let* ((pslot (aref pslots i)) + (sd (cl--copy-slot-descriptor pslot)) (init (car (rassq (cl--slot-descriptor-name sd) pinit)))) + ;; + ;; Simply applying a `copy-sequence' on the props + ;; will not work since props itself is a sequence + ;; whose elements will not be copied and only + ;; reference elements of the old props plist. A + ;; reccursive copy should be performed. + ;; + (setf (cl--slot-descriptor-props sd) + (copy-tree + (cl--slot-descriptor-props pslot))) (eieio--add-new-slot newc sd init nil nil sn)) + ;; + ;;; -- End Props should be copied as well )) ;; while/let ;; Now duplicate all the class alloc slots. (let ((pcslots (eieio--class-class-slots pcv)))
bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
:bug#20914
; Package emacs
.
(Tue, 30 Jun 2015 18:10:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.Message #14 received at 20914 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
From: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca> To: Pierre Lorenzon <devel <at> pollock-nageoire.net> Cc: 20914 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#20914: eieio/slot/group Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2015 14:09:20 -0400
> The problem comes from use of `copy-sequence' in > `eieio-copy-parents-into-subclass' function of eieio-core. this > copy is not reccursive as explained in code comment but it > should be ! There's a joined patch that fixes the bug. Thanks for the investigation. I think the fix should be applied deeper. Can you confirm that the patch below works for you as well? Stefan diff --git a/lisp/emacs-lisp/cl-preloaded.el b/lisp/emacs-lisp/cl-preloaded.el index ed0639b..2e9bdde 100644 --- a/lisp/emacs-lisp/cl-preloaded.el +++ b/lisp/emacs-lisp/cl-preloaded.el @@ -195,7 +195,7 @@ (:constructor nil) (:constructor cl--make-slot-descriptor (name &optional initform type props)) - (:copier cl--copy-slot-descriptor)) + (:copier nil)) ;; FIXME: This is actually not used yet, for circularity reasons! "Descriptor of structure slot." name ;Attribute name (symbol). @@ -205,6 +205,11 @@ ;; :documentation, :protection, :custom, :label, :group, :printer. (props nil :type alist)) +(defun cl--copy-slot-descriptor (slot) + (let ((new (copy-sequence slot))) + (cl-callf copy-sequence (cl--slot-descriptor-props new)) + new)) + (cl-defstruct (cl--class (:constructor nil) (:copier nil))
bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
:bug#20914
; Package emacs
.
(Wed, 01 Jul 2015 04:13:01 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.Message #17 received at 20914 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
From: Pierre Lorenzon <devel <at> pollock-nageoire.net> To: monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca Cc: 20914 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#20914: eieio/slot/group Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2015 06:02:28 +0200 (CEST)
From: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca> Subject: Re: bug#20914: eieio/slot/group Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2015 14:09:20 -0400 >> The problem comes from use of `copy-sequence' in >> `eieio-copy-parents-into-subclass' function of eieio-core. this >> copy is not reccursive as explained in code comment but it >> should be ! There's a joined patch that fixes the bug. > > Thanks for the investigation. I think the fix should be Sure it is better to have a true copier for cl--slot-descriptor. > applied deeper. Can you confirm that the patch below works for you unfortunately it does not ! I modified cl-preloaded.el recompiled it but once restarting emacs my example classes do not havae suitable properties. When doing Ch f cl--copy-slot-descriptor I get that it is an alias for copy-sequence as it was before and not the function defined by the new definition you gave. Moreover if I force cl-prelaoded.el to be loaded I get the correct definition. I suspect that things are not loaded as they should but why .... > as well? > > > Stefan > > > diff --git a/lisp/emacs-lisp/cl-preloaded.el b/lisp/emacs-lisp/cl-preloaded.el > index ed0639b..2e9bdde 100644 > --- a/lisp/emacs-lisp/cl-preloaded.el > +++ b/lisp/emacs-lisp/cl-preloaded.el > @@ -195,7 +195,7 @@ > (:constructor nil) > (:constructor cl--make-slot-descriptor > (name &optional initform type props)) > - (:copier cl--copy-slot-descriptor)) > + (:copier nil)) > ;; FIXME: This is actually not used yet, for circularity reasons! > "Descriptor of structure slot." > name ;Attribute name (symbol). > @@ -205,6 +205,11 @@ > ;; :documentation, :protection, :custom, :label, :group, :printer. > (props nil :type alist)) > > +(defun cl--copy-slot-descriptor (slot) > + (let ((new (copy-sequence slot))) Are you sure that a copy-sequence will be enough here ? props themselves are sequences hence they will be referenced by this copy-sequence not copied. I think that a copy-tree should be used here. > + (cl-callf copy-sequence (cl--slot-descriptor-props new)) > + new)) > + > (cl-defstruct (cl--class > (:constructor nil) > (:copier nil)) Ok I'll try to understand why it does not work. I'll probably learn something in this history and that's good ! Pierre
bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
:bug#20914
; Package emacs
.
(Wed, 01 Jul 2015 06:45:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.Message #20 received at 20914 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
From: Pierre Lorenzon <devel <at> pollock-nageoire.net> To: monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca Cc: 20914 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#20914: eieio/slot/group Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2015 08:35:05 +0200 (CEST)
Sorry in fact it works when patching and recompiling the whole stuff.Recompiling only cl-preloaded.el is not enough. Anyway copy-tree should be used and not copy-sequence for the properties. Otherwise properties are not eq but car of them are eq and that's not what we want. Pierre From: Pierre Lorenzon <devel <at> pollock-nageoire.net> Subject: bug#20914: eieio/slot/group Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2015 06:02:28 +0200 (CEST) > From: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca> > Subject: Re: bug#20914: eieio/slot/group > Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2015 14:09:20 -0400 > >>> The problem comes from use of `copy-sequence' in >>> `eieio-copy-parents-into-subclass' function of eieio-core. this >>> copy is not reccursive as explained in code comment but it >>> should be ! There's a joined patch that fixes the bug. >> >> Thanks for the investigation. I think the fix should be > > > Sure it is better to have a true copier for > cl--slot-descriptor. > > >> applied deeper. Can you confirm that the patch below works for you > > unfortunately it does not ! I modified cl-preloaded.el > recompiled it but once restarting emacs my example classes do > not havae suitable properties. When doing Ch f > cl--copy-slot-descriptor I get that it is an alias for > copy-sequence as it was before and not the function defined > by the new definition you gave. Moreover if I force > cl-prelaoded.el to be loaded I get the correct definition. I > suspect that things are not loaded as they should but why > .... > > > > >> as well? >> >> >> Stefan >> >> >> diff --git a/lisp/emacs-lisp/cl-preloaded.el b/lisp/emacs-lisp/cl-preloaded.el >> index ed0639b..2e9bdde 100644 >> --- a/lisp/emacs-lisp/cl-preloaded.el >> +++ b/lisp/emacs-lisp/cl-preloaded.el >> @@ -195,7 +195,7 @@ >> (:constructor nil) >> (:constructor cl--make-slot-descriptor >> (name &optional initform type props)) >> - (:copier cl--copy-slot-descriptor)) >> + (:copier nil)) >> ;; FIXME: This is actually not used yet, for circularity reasons! >> "Descriptor of structure slot." >> name ;Attribute name (symbol). >> @@ -205,6 +205,11 @@ >> ;; :documentation, :protection, :custom, :label, :group, :printer. >> (props nil :type alist)) >> >> +(defun cl--copy-slot-descriptor (slot) >> + (let ((new (copy-sequence slot))) > > > > Are you sure that a copy-sequence will be enough here ? props > themselves are sequences hence they will be referenced by > this copy-sequence not copied. I think that a copy-tree > should be used here. > > >> + (cl-callf copy-sequence (cl--slot-descriptor-props new)) >> + new)) >> + >> (cl-defstruct (cl--class >> (:constructor nil) >> (:copier nil)) > > Ok I'll try to understand why it does not > work. I'll probably learn something in this > history and that's good ! > > > Pierre > > >
Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
:Pierre Lorenzon <devel <at> pollock-nageoire.net>
:Message #25 received at 20914-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
From: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca> To: Pierre Lorenzon <devel <at> pollock-nageoire.net> Cc: 20914-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#20914: eieio/slot/group Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2015 09:31:35 -0400
> Sorry in fact it works when patching and recompiling the whole > stuff.Recompiling only cl-preloaded.el is not enough. As the name suggests, cl-preloaded is ... preloaded into the "emacs" executable, so you need to recompile cl-preloaded.elc and then re-dump src/emacs. > Anyway copy-tree should be used and not copy-sequence for the > properties. Otherwise properties are not eq but car of them are > eq and that's not what we want. Oops, good point, tho copy-tree isn't right either (we don't want to copy the actual values). I installed the patch below, Stefan diff --git a/lisp/emacs-lisp/cl-preloaded.el b/lisp/emacs-lisp/cl-preloaded.el index ed0639b..60f6542 100644 --- a/lisp/emacs-lisp/cl-preloaded.el +++ b/lisp/emacs-lisp/cl-preloaded.el @@ -195,7 +195,7 @@ (:constructor nil) (:constructor cl--make-slot-descriptor (name &optional initform type props)) - (:copier cl--copy-slot-descriptor)) + (:copier cl--copy-slot-descriptor-1)) ;; FIXME: This is actually not used yet, for circularity reasons! "Descriptor of structure slot." name ;Attribute name (symbol). @@ -205,6 +205,11 @@ ;; :documentation, :protection, :custom, :label, :group, :printer. (props nil :type alist)) +(defun cl--copy-slot-descriptor (slot) + (let ((new (cl--copy-slot-descriptor-1 slot))) + (cl-callf copy-alist (cl--slot-descriptor-props new)) + new)) + (cl-defstruct (cl--class (:constructor nil) (:copier nil))
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