From unknown Mon Jun 23 04:09:27 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#20697 <20697@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#20697 <20697@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 25.0.50; Mention `M-x report-emacs-bug' on splash screen Reply-To: bug#20697 <20697@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2025 11:09:27 +0000 retitle 20697 25.0.50; Mention `M-x report-emacs-bug' on splash screen reassign 20697 emacs submitter 20697 Drew Adams severity 20697 wishlist tag 20697 patch thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 30 10:42:57 2015 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 May 2015 14:42:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33640 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YyhyT-0005KR-6r for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 May 2015 10:42:57 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39752) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YyhyP-0005KD-W3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 May 2015 10:42:54 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YyhyJ-0003x0-Ud for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 May 2015 10:42:48 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:53123) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YyhyJ-0003wr-S6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 May 2015 10:42:47 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53254) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YyhyI-0002vd-Tv for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 May 2015 10:42:47 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YyhyD-0003wZ-SN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 May 2015 10:42:46 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:27517) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YyhyD-0003wP-JZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 May 2015 10:42:41 -0400 Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id t4UEgeqo019361 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sat, 30 May 2015 14:42:41 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t4UEge3i013055 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Sat, 30 May 2015 14:42:40 GMT Received: from abhmp0018.oracle.com (abhmp0018.oracle.com [141.146.116.24]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t4UEgek1019591 for ; Sat, 30 May 2015 14:42:40 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <279f13f9-e156-4e8b-824c-8e9704033679@default> Date: Sat, 30 May 2015 07:42:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 25.0.50; Mention `M-x report-emacs-bug' on splash screen X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) Consider adding `M-x report-emacs-bug' to the splash page. (And consider pointing out the Help menu, on the splash page.) Here is one indication that a new user might not know how to file a bug report: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D20628#284 This is a bug that had annoyed me 4 or 5 years ago when I first used Emacs, but at that time I didn't really know how to report bugs. In GNU Emacs 25.0.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2014-10-20 on LEG570 Bzr revision: 118168 rgm@gnu.org-20141020195941-icp42t8ttcnud09g Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --enable-checking=3Dyes,glyphs CPPFLAGS=3D-DGLYPH_DEBUG=3D1' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 30 15:33:47 2016 Received: (at 20697) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2016 19:33:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58457 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awaeB-00082d-7C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 15:33:47 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:59930) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awaeA-00082W-H0 for 20697@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 15:33:46 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.1.64.getinternet.no ([84.215.1.64] helo=mouse) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awae7-0005xq-JA; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 21:33:45 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#20697: 25.0.50; Mention `M-x report-emacs-bug' on splash screen References: <279f13f9-e156-4e8b-824c-8e9704033679@default> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 21:33:43 +0200 In-Reply-To: <279f13f9-e156-4e8b-824c-8e9704033679@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 30 May 2015 07:42:41 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <8760uydh7s.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20697 Cc: 20697@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Drew Adams writes: > Consider adding `M-x report-emacs-bug' to the splash page. > (And consider pointing out the Help menu, on the splash page.) > > Here is one indication that a new user might not know how to file a > bug report: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=20628#284 > > This is a bug that had annoyed me 4 or 5 years ago when I first used > Emacs, but at that time I didn't really know how to report bugs. There's already too much verbiage on the splash screen, but perhaps this would make sense... -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 20 20:42:14 2019 Received: (at 20697) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Aug 2019 00:42:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34273 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i0EhZ-0000Zh-Qz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 20 Aug 2019 20:42:14 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f181.google.com ([209.85.210.181]:46512) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i0EhX-0000ZE-88 for 20697@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 20 Aug 2019 20:42:11 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f181.google.com with SMTP id q139so200741pfc.13 for <20697@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 20 Aug 2019 17:42:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=CL5OMupgVimiiho6ICcHudND/JJK/nuX9eqYu5TApPg=; b=VRfD3yiwaQ1VyOT+SwuJqXsJH6npowGnnY95eawA9NCGTdujICTr9AuOgIBvgDsPir aLqzKlzsUMvsW0hk1tAMncaBY/hynpdNHHta8/ppDf8II+bw7nHPvsQDRdkwnFUPCMj2 rz5QwQfw7/4pvOYwYJFrcUOVwlhHMnDHqkWaykLOJbkVOFZ+F3FSDP6BnLDrgSZSk/+D 32gl3HA5zd9kODkxocZVb14jJc/2poJsUqiU1IBCqCyKdcDxQNADJW1M+mo5ksvZUR75 hIaK+yC97ZvKUFxZzPN3ISCMVR/z/r5J8TkLDGnZIIu8N31lyFidtXVKkIAP1gFgOtoo siMw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV0gb5sVw3mZeNXfSNf4tpT2fVQ9WehORYYV+SFTYM87fUiXSuO a79+7VOqRIq5rZWF5fpSQ6DFfTH58UXgKSoMjOg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxJCOKuDRrMXcvRgguTAgY+Ns8cMBWagZjo7zD6/ZmmAIhDv0vUmqcDeFqDgrpRzrxDz/lAVimURBwcZdsWee8= X-Received: by 2002:a63:4c5c:: with SMTP id m28mr28462881pgl.333.1566348125260; Tue, 20 Aug 2019 17:42:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stefan Kangas Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 02:41:53 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#20697: 25.0.50; Mention `M-x report-emacs-bug' on splash screen To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0000000000009a0157059095d737" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20697 Cc: Drew Adams , 20697@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) --0000000000009a0157059095d737 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" tags 20697 + patch quit Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Drew Adams writes: > >> Consider adding `M-x report-emacs-bug' to the splash page. >> (And consider pointing out the Help menu, on the splash page.) >> >> Here is one indication that a new user might not know how to file a >> bug report: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=20628#284 >> >> This is a bug that had annoyed me 4 or 5 years ago when I first used >> Emacs, but at that time I didn't really know how to report bugs. > > There's already too much verbiage on the splash screen, but perhaps this > would make sense... How about the attached patch? Thanks, Stefan Kangas --0000000000009a0157059095d737 Content-Type: text/x-patch; charset="US-ASCII"; name="0001-Add-Reporting-Bugs-link-to-about-screen.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-Add-Reporting-Bugs-link-to-about-screen.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: X-Attachment-Id: f_jzkj74gv0 RnJvbSBkZDU1ZGI1MThlMjc2MTVlZjg3MWQxOWVlZGU5YTIwY2Y3MTgzMmI2IE1vbiBTZXAgMTcg MDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBTdGVmYW4gS2FuZ2FzIDxzdGVmYW5rYW5nYXNAZ21haWwuY29t PgpEYXRlOiBXZWQsIDIxIEF1ZyAyMDE5IDAyOjM3OjQxICswMjAwClN1YmplY3Q6IFtQQVRDSF0g QWRkICJSZXBvcnRpbmcgQnVncyIgbGluayB0byBhYm91dCBzY3JlZW4KCiogbGlzcC9oZWxwLmVs ICh2aWV3LWVtYWNzLWhvd3RvLXJlcG9ydC1idWdzKTogTmV3IGZ1bmN0aW9uLgoqIGxpc3Avc3Rh cnR1cC5lbCAoZmFuY3ktYWJvdXQtdGV4dCwgbm9ybWFsLWFib3V0LXNjcmVlbik6IEFkZCBsaW5r CiJSZXBvcnRpbmcgQnVncyIuICAoQnVnIzIwNjk3KQotLS0KIGxpc3AvaGVscC5lbCAgICB8ICA1 ICsrKysrCiBsaXNwL3N0YXJ0dXAuZWwgfCAxMCArKysrKysrKystCiAyIGZpbGVzIGNoYW5nZWQs IDE0IGluc2VydGlvbnMoKyksIDEgZGVsZXRpb24oLSkKCmRpZmYgLS1naXQgYS9saXNwL2hlbHAu ZWwgYi9saXNwL2hlbHAuZWwKaW5kZXggZTQwMTc4ZGU5Ni4uMWYwZDBlOGUzNiAxMDA2NDQKLS0t IGEvbGlzcC9oZWxwLmVsCisrKyBiL2xpc3AvaGVscC5lbApAQCAtNDM4LDYgKzQzOCwxMSBAQCB2 aWV3LWVtYWNzLUZBUQogICAoaW50ZXJhY3RpdmUpCiAgIChpbmZvICIoZWZhcSkiKSkKIAorKGRl ZnVuIHZpZXctZW1hY3MtaG93dG8tcmVwb3J0LWJ1Z3MgKCkKKyAgIkRpc3BsYXkgaW5mb3JtYXRp b24gb24gaG93IHRvIHJlcG9ydCBidWdzIGluIEVtYWNzLiIKKyAgKGludGVyYWN0aXZlKQorICAo aW5mbyAiKGVtYWNzKUJ1Z3MiKSkKKwogKGRlZnVuIHZpZXctZW1hY3MtcHJvYmxlbXMgKCkKICAg IkRpc3BsYXkgaW5mbyBvbiBrbm93biBwcm9ibGVtcyB3aXRoIEVtYWNzIGFuZCBwb3NzaWJsZSB3 b3JrYXJvdW5kcy4iCiAgIChpbnRlcmFjdGl2ZSkKZGlmZiAtLWdpdCBhL2xpc3Avc3RhcnR1cC5l bCBiL2xpc3Avc3RhcnR1cC5lbAppbmRleCA1NjQ0Mjg1ODBiLi5jOGE2NTFjNGFhIDEwMDY0NAot LS0gYS9saXNwL3N0YXJ0dXAuZWwKKysrIGIvbGlzcC9zdGFydHVwLmVsCkBAIC0xNTk2LDYgKzE1 OTYsOCBAQCBmYW5jeS1hYm91dC10ZXh0CiAgICAgIDpsaW5rICgiQ29udHJpYnV0aW5nIgogCSAg ICAsKGxhbWJkYSAoX2J1dHRvbikgKGluZm8gIihlbWFjcylDb250cmlidXRpbmciKSkpCiAgICAg ICJcdEhvdyB0byBjb250cmlidXRlIGltcHJvdmVtZW50cyB0byBFbWFjc1xuIgorICAgICA6bGlu ayAoIlJlcG9ydCBCdWdzIiAsKGxhbWJkYSAoX2J1dHRvbikgKHZpZXctZW1hY3MtaG93dG8tcmVw b3J0LWJ1Z3MpKSkKKyAgICAgIlx0SG93IHRvIHJlcG9ydCBidWdzIGluIEVtYWNzXG4iCiAgICAg ICJcbiIKICAgICAgOmxpbmsgKCJHTlUgYW5kIEZyZWVkb20iICwobGFtYmRhIChfYnV0dG9uKSAo ZGVzY3JpYmUtZ251LXByb2plY3QpKSkKICAgICAgIlx0V2h5IHdlIGRldmVsb3BlZCBHTlUgRW1h Y3MsIGFuZCB0aGUgR05VIG9wZXJhdGluZyBzeXN0ZW1cbiIKQEAgLTIxNzQsNyArMjE3NiwxMyBA QCBub3JtYWwtYWJvdXQtc2NyZWVuCiAJCSAnYWN0aW9uCiAJCSAobGFtYmRhIChfYnV0dG9uKSAo aW5mbyAiKGVtYWNzKUNvbnRyaWJ1dGluZyIpKQogCQkgJ2ZvbGxvdy1saW5rIHQpCi0gIChpbnNl cnQgIlx0SG93IHRvIGNvbnRyaWJ1dGUgaW1wcm92ZW1lbnRzIHRvIEVtYWNzXG5cbiIpCisgIChp bnNlcnQgIlx0SG93IHRvIGNvbnRyaWJ1dGUgaW1wcm92ZW1lbnRzIHRvIEVtYWNzXG4iKQorCisg IChpbnNlcnQtYnV0dG9uICJSZXBvcnRpbmcgQnVncyIKKwkJICdhY3Rpb24KKwkJIChsYW1iZGEg KF9idXR0b24pICh2aWV3LWVtYWNzLWhvd3RvLXJlcG9ydC1idWdzKSkKKwkJICdmb2xsb3ctbGlu ayB0KQorICAoaW5zZXJ0ICJcdEhvdyB0byByZXBvcnQgYnVncyBpbiBFbWFjc1xuXG4iKQogCiAg IChpbnNlcnQtYnV0dG9uICJHTlUgYW5kIEZyZWVkb20iCiAJCSAnYWN0aW9uIChsYW1iZGEgKF9i dXR0b24pIChkZXNjcmliZS1nbnUtcHJvamVjdCkpCi0tIAoyLjIwLjEKCg== --0000000000009a0157059095d737-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 20 21:59:47 2019 Received: (at 20697) by debbugs.gnu.org; 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Wed, 21 Aug 2019 01:59:38 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x7L1vVYh089455; Wed, 21 Aug 2019 01:59:37 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2ugj7pbs0k-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Aug 2019 01:59:37 +0000 Received: from abhmp0020.oracle.com (abhmp0020.oracle.com [141.146.116.26]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x7L1xYin029417; Wed, 21 Aug 2019 01:59:34 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 18:59:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Stefan Kangas , Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: RE: bug#20697: 25.0.50; Mention `M-x report-emacs-bug' on splash screen References: In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4873.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9355 signatures=668684 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1908210017 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9355 signatures=668684 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1908210017 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20697 Cc: 20697@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Thanks for doing this. The only thing I'd suggest is to maybe have the text say something like thi= s: "How to report Emacs bugs and enhancement requests" I think people often don't know that `M-x report-emacs-bug' is also for enh= ancement requests. But if the text mentions it then maybe so should node (emacs) `Bugs'. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 21 16:02:18 2019 Received: (at 20697) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Aug 2019 20:02:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36493 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i0WoE-0007bT-7D for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Aug 2019 16:02:18 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]:42392) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i0WoC-0007bH-Ew for 20697@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Aug 2019 16:02:17 -0400 Received: from 77.16.217.167.tmi.telenormobil.no ([77.16.217.167] helo=sandy) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1i0Wo7-00062K-G9; Wed, 21 Aug 2019 22:02:14 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#20697: 25.0.50; Mention `M-x report-emacs-bug' on splash screen References: Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 13:02:08 -0700 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Wed, 21 Aug 2019 02:41:53 +0200") Message-ID: <874l2az3r3.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Kangas writes: > "\tHow to contribute improvements to Emacs\n" > + :link ("Report Bugs" , (lambda (_button) (view-emacs-howto-report-bugs))) > + "\tHow to report bugs in Emacs\n" > "\n" Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP 0.0 TVD_RCVD_IP Message was received from an IP address -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20697 Cc: Drew Adams , 20697@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Kangas writes: > "\tHow to contribute improvements to Emacs\n" > + :link ("Report Bugs" ,(lambda (_button) (view-emacs-howto-report-bugs))) > + "\tHow to report bugs in Emacs\n" > "\n" So this basically adds another line and links directly to the Bugs info page. Hm. Would it be possible to instead just change the line Contributing How to contribute improvements to Emacs to something like the following? That link already links to the bug reporting page... Contributing How to report bugs and contribute improvements -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 21 17:03:41 2019 Received: (at 20697) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Aug 2019 21:03:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36632 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i0XlO-0003Gb-PW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Aug 2019 17:03:41 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f171.google.com ([209.85.210.171]:42837) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i0Xl7-0003Fl-Dy for 20697@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Aug 2019 17:03:24 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f171.google.com with SMTP id i30so2243264pfk.9 for <20697@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 21 Aug 2019 14:03:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=xAdK3UafOmHq5hINhH2LMbNYvvp+4SWpw4C5hpcMXsk=; b=oXOvNEf+d6u/Yx0dpUWPfAUnM03ACs5LxNP38PuWzC80Am1Vzzi7pqiBW7TRmB1MGK U6MD+9kVn+JSZCan9fpLamZGOAMimLxGwIKtbxMuWZqukC7MaUcOFbypNeURe5aCyAcA DdlBDa/6vpbx7t3HBaBCk4dV+bsQDSmZgYoTckXNYy+FX7xLL+qugQ8NQ2dgTN/OtPsO TOxYg7EHzxaYwihTMvi5A81qFHT1zhdcGxUcpP2+sL/lMzg+i+mkl39f3dtRa+oYSlXQ Nvi6X5EyOJ3isvr5Otku+OkSvu4OXmE1Gknuch4xB3kBD/tOfjgXyqFp5/X1aAfY+Yka aYKQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVeghUfXZm06Qt0cg0CrhLd0/8A064FJKNcub5SAIjRjQVccY6B h7gbJEgt9hf1WbUSHJ9pAsUmiTRi/WZZncpJ0GU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyeh5ibzqO1XKEzLC+stSBwsHciWCPvTSUDTKenHAq2OrX58bWuvg1+U9DijOg08PD3ZOhTX0AiDc8fx85jg9U= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:9552:: with SMTP id w18mr37083534pfq.107.1566421381569; Wed, 21 Aug 2019 14:03:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <874l2az3r3.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <874l2az3r3.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> From: Stefan Kangas Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 23:02:50 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#20697: 25.0.50; Mention `M-x report-emacs-bug' on splash screen To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20697 Cc: Drew Adams , 20697@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Stefan Kangas writes: > > > "\tHow to contribute improvements to Emacs\n" > > + :link ("Report Bugs" ,(lambda (_button) (view-emacs-howto-report-bugs))) > > + "\tHow to report bugs in Emacs\n" > > "\n" > > So this basically adds another line and links directly to the Bugs info > page. Hm. Would it be possible to instead just change the line > > Contributing How to contribute improvements to Emacs > > to something like the following? That link already links to the bug > reporting page... > > Contributing How to report bugs and contribute improvements I had missed that, but you're absolutely correct and I agree that its a better solution. There was also a suggestion by Drew in the original post to mention the Help menu as well. Is that something we want to do? But then, wouldn't we also want to suggest C-h C-h, C-h C-i, etc.? Maybe a better alternative would be to add the Emacs Manual at the bottom, after the link to the guided tour? (And, but maybe that's just me, to move all the help topics ("Emacs Tutorial", "Emacs Guided Tour") to the top?) Thanks, Stefan Kangas From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 21 17:27:20 2019 Received: (at 20697) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Aug 2019 21:27:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36655 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i0Y8W-00060t-DZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Aug 2019 17:27:20 -0400 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:34564) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i0Y8U-00060e-AL for 20697@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Aug 2019 17:27:18 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x7LLDvDj079437; Wed, 21 Aug 2019 21:27:12 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2019-08-05; bh=eE46s5kGKTBeiPKa2GemNYgM8RMlnFKBgbJ7+bymmEk=; b=Wduj0AfD4VBYY14muT4z/E1g6rI2x3SukbEPFyIO/XD6LiQedW93BMUJQafI+Mi1sG1t Lj1mYeUeUx5oFC5wpd8Ku+sYggNKTfHsSHT3U0VD0zgS8FS/lEjbwnDRUBr9/qyhfN1q MBL/66AfxHRK5jkZGx01bbpRy7b9e6JGMga73CLom2UH5vJGxxAxm1NnIhzlNko/xZaP M1lsxWzU5xlWiZLw1nomlmGrjGpZw45yj7qDCnZdsE9G9ccp7Tmk7MGeUzLndo9OxFJu 4MfNFFV318EZiKRbMge8Ob0UuSXnbvnJU51EyBFetrqlhJINe2lwDj3iIYf3hLfF/TFt aw== Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2ue90trrs6-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Aug 2019 21:27:11 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x7LLDmk3022357; Wed, 21 Aug 2019 21:27:11 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2uh2q519su-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Aug 2019 21:27:11 +0000 Received: from abhmp0019.oracle.com (abhmp0019.oracle.com [141.146.116.25]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x7LLR7Ae007118; Wed, 21 Aug 2019 21:27:09 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <5d8f820c-4029-45cf-8fd7-b1fc44f8e6e3@default> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 14:27:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Stefan Kangas , Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: RE: bug#20697: 25.0.50; Mention `M-x report-emacs-bug' on splash screen References: <874l2az3r3.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4873.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9355 signatures=668684 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1908210208 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9355 signatures=668684 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1908210208 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20697 Cc: 20697@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > So this basically adds another line and links directly to the Bugs > info > > page. Hm. Would it be possible to instead just change the line > > > > Contributing How to contribute improvements to Emacs > > > > to something like the following? That link already links to the bug > > reporting page... > > > > Contributing How to report bugs and contribute improvements >=20 > I had missed that, but you're absolutely correct and I agree that its > a better solution. >=20 > There was also a suggestion by Drew in the original post to mention > the Help menu as well. Is that something we want to do? But then, > wouldn't we also want to suggest C-h C-h, C-h C-i, etc.? Maybe a > better alternative would be to add the Emacs Manual at the bottom, > after the link to the guided tour? (And, but maybe that's just me, to > move all the help topics ("Emacs Tutorial", "Emacs Guided Tour") to > the top?) I saw that "How to contribute..." but I thought/think its destination is to the doc section about contributing. If so, that's not quite the same thing. It would be OK to have a single link that points to something that covered both (1) `report-emacs-bug', mentioning that that's also for enhancement requests, and (2) how to contribute in a deeper way: GIT, patches etc. [Mentioning also enhancement requests was my input for this bug thread.] But in that case, the more lightweight feedback, #1, should be separated and up front, so users wanting to report a bug or suggest an enhancement need not find themselves immediately in the depths of how to contribute in a deeper way. We want (IMO) to encourage lots of users to provide relatively easy feedback, beyond also wanting some users to get more deeply involved. We don't want people to get the impression that lightweight suggestions are not possible or encouraged, and that a heavy commitment is the only encouraged participation. Just one opinion. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 21 17:38:43 2019 Received: (at 20697) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Aug 2019 21:38:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36669 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i0YJX-0006Im-1E for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Aug 2019 17:38:43 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]:43770) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i0YJU-0006Id-UM for 20697@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Aug 2019 17:38:41 -0400 Received: from 77.16.209.198.tmi.telenormobil.no ([77.16.209.198] helo=sandy) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1i0YJQ-0006m9-1Q; Wed, 21 Aug 2019 23:38:38 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#20697: 25.0.50; Mention `M-x report-emacs-bug' on splash screen References: <874l2az3r3.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 14:38:32 -0700 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Wed, 21 Aug 2019 23:02:50 +0200") Message-ID: <87mug2w65j.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Kangas writes: > There was also a suggestion by Drew in the original post to mention > the Help menu as well. Is that something we want to do? But then, > wouldn't we also want to suggest C-h C-h, C-h C-i, etc.? Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP 0.0 TVD_RCVD_IP Message was received from an IP address -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20697 Cc: Drew Adams , 20697@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Kangas writes: > There was also a suggestion by Drew in the original post to mention > the Help menu as well. Is that something we want to do? But then, > wouldn't we also want to suggest C-h C-h, C-h C-i, etc.? Hm... The "About" screen already has too much text, in my opinion -- and adding more will only discourage reading what's already there. Perhaps the "Absence of Warranty" and "Copying Conditions" could be merged into one line? > Maybe a better alternative would be to add the Emacs Manual at the > bottom, after the link to the guided tour? (And, but maybe that's > just me, to move all the help topics ("Emacs Tutorial", "Emacs Guided > Tour") to the top?) Yes, it is kinda odd that there's no links to the manual on that page. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 13 15:29:44 2019 Received: (at 20697) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Sep 2019 19:29:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45622 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i8rGJ-0003PW-VO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 15:29:44 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f173.google.com ([209.85.215.173]:35538) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i8rGH-0003PG-T4 for 20697@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 15:29:42 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f173.google.com with SMTP id n4so15765095pgv.2 for <20697@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 12:29:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=qJKtunEk/2AqCcM8zNtX2VzUYm6l6DiI2igTjLCee8Q=; b=KYHCdnxEqgOL1YKc2m77kKBkRN6E3PQhV6ejr2uPGWqov3rVk3IWj3X3KhDN9ek/23 BNC3prBaLxhwOLR+WihXVgOmzx5ICNl5cvOXIaezCHBBo6NLlzV4aY8vNdVeNUq1r5o5 XIaLVVk73YbZ7gi60+rMUgGxYgiA0REeKf3lr3usBn12ikqvZCIqJMVm+othlEBUfeWR /pm/7fHf3QPwe0JTRRjd/MOJTCxVmUtg/4JnJrLsAdg7+TIbbQQEfUQsww85jkT0lJkk SjIWr5C1XP9xFJHfVMU9fwCkEYdFwK2Ekk0n8JcWYNRK8E2CX6XJZMoraEvgJBwyY7MN cm8w== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAU7o+aCDkON1z35qGKyGJLFAeD2tHdB9y1GOC8lD9PX3tAQQB9I CIiB+1hSOXNL1CpW4prc8k/t4gLHTYv+GRnzOM0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwjgQPZTl9WuhrDRE2rzf1oVvidjnqCXiLtKhDOVGe7qQkhE/LX1TSgkUvCv6l0uA4CrPB8PZjArH4nv3dyfPo= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:17ab:: with SMTP id q40mr7218895pja.106.1568402976301; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 12:29:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <874l2az3r3.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87mug2w65j.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <87mug2w65j.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> From: Stefan Kangas Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 21:29:25 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#20697: 25.0.50; Mention `M-x report-emacs-bug' on splash screen To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0000000000004488f9059274467b" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20697 Cc: Drew Adams , 20697@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --0000000000004488f9059274467b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Perhaps the "Absence of Warranty" and "Copying Conditions" could be > merged into one line? Are there any legal implications here? Otherwise, I agree that it would be a good change. > > Maybe a better alternative would be to add the Emacs Manual at the > > bottom, after the link to the guided tour? (And, but maybe that's > > just me, to move all the help topics ("Emacs Tutorial", "Emacs Guided > > Tour") to the top?) > > Yes, it is kinda odd that there's no links to the manual on that page. Please see the attached patch. I've incorporated your suggestion and added a link to the manual. Best regards, Stefan Kangas --0000000000004488f9059274467b Content-Type: text/x-patch; charset="US-ASCII"; name="0001-Add-bug-reporting-info-and-link-the-manual-on-the-ab.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-Add-bug-reporting-info-and-link-the-manual-on-the-ab.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: X-Attachment-Id: f_k0iiln090 RnJvbSA3YmY4NjY2ODU2ZmNmZGMzNDgyM2I1OTE1MGViNjM5NDg5NmIyOTg3IE1vbiBTZXAgMTcg MDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBTdGVmYW4gS2FuZ2FzIDxzdGVmYW5rYW5nYXNAZ21haWwuY29t PgpEYXRlOiBGcmksIDEzIFNlcCAyMDE5IDIxOjIzOjI0ICswMjAwClN1YmplY3Q6IFtQQVRDSF0g QWRkIGJ1ZyByZXBvcnRpbmcgaW5mbyBhbmQgbGluayB0aGUgbWFudWFsIG9uIHRoZSBhYm91dAog c2NyZWVuCgoqIGxpc3Avc3RhcnR1cC5lbCAoZmFuY3ktYWJvdXQtdGV4dCwgbm9ybWFsLWFib3V0 LXNjcmVlbik6IENsYXJpZnkKdGhhdCAiQ29udHJpYnV0ZSIgYWxzbyBkZXNjcmliZXMgaG93IHRv IHJlcG9ydCBidWdzLiAgQWRkIG5ldyBsaW5rCiJFbWFjcyBNYW51YWwiLiAgKEJ1ZyMyMDY5NykK LS0tCiBsaXNwL3N0YXJ0dXAuZWwgfCA4ICsrKysrLS0tCiAxIGZpbGUgY2hhbmdlZCwgNSBpbnNl cnRpb25zKCspLCAzIGRlbGV0aW9ucygtKQoKZGlmZiAtLWdpdCBhL2xpc3Avc3RhcnR1cC5lbCBi L2xpc3Avc3RhcnR1cC5lbAppbmRleCBlZjYyMzQxMjhhLi4yNDNlYjhjMzRhIDEwMDY0NAotLS0g YS9saXNwL3N0YXJ0dXAuZWwKKysrIGIvbGlzcC9zdGFydHVwLmVsCkBAIC0xNjMyLDcgKzE2MzIs NyBAQCBmYW5jeS1hYm91dC10ZXh0CiAgICAgICJcdE1hbnkgcGVvcGxlIGhhdmUgY29udHJpYnV0 ZWQgY29kZSBpbmNsdWRlZCBpbiBHTlUgRW1hY3NcbiIKICAgICAgOmxpbmsgKCJDb250cmlidXRp bmciCiAJICAgICwobGFtYmRhIChfYnV0dG9uKSAoaW5mbyAiKGVtYWNzKUNvbnRyaWJ1dGluZyIp KSkKLSAgICAgIlx0SG93IHRvIGNvbnRyaWJ1dGUgaW1wcm92ZW1lbnRzIHRvIEVtYWNzXG4iCisg ICAgICJcdEhvdyB0byByZXBvcnQgYnVncyBhbmQgY29udHJpYnV0ZSBpbXByb3ZlbWVudHMgdG8g RW1hY3NcbiIKICAgICAgIlxuIgogICAgICA6bGluayAoIkdOVSBhbmQgRnJlZWRvbSIgLChsYW1i ZGEgKF9idXR0b24pIChkZXNjcmliZS1nbnUtcHJvamVjdCkpKQogICAgICAiXHRXaHkgd2UgZGV2 ZWxvcGVkIEdOVSBFbWFjcywgYW5kIHRoZSBHTlUgb3BlcmF0aW5nIHN5c3RlbVxuIgpAQCAtMTY0 OCw2ICsxNjQ4LDggQEAgZmFuY3ktYWJvdXQtdGV4dAogICAgICA6bGluayAoIk9yZGVyaW5nIE1h bnVhbHMiICwobGFtYmRhIChfYnV0dG9uKSAodmlldy1vcmRlci1tYW51YWxzKSkpCiAgICAgICJc dEJ1eWluZyBwcmludGVkIG1hbnVhbHMgZnJvbSB0aGUgRlNGXG4iCiAgICAgICJcbiIKKyAgICAg OmxpbmsgKCJFbWFjcyBNYW51YWwiICwobGFtYmRhIChfYnV0dG9uKSAoaW5mby1lbWFjcy1tYW51 YWwpKSkKKyAgICAgIlx0RGlzcGxheSB0aGUgRW1hY3MgbWFudWFsIGluIEluZm8gbW9kZVxuIgog ICAgICA6bGluayAoIkVtYWNzIFR1dG9yaWFsIiAsKGxhbWJkYSAoX2J1dHRvbikgKGhlbHAtd2l0 aC10dXRvcmlhbCkpKQogICAgICAiXHRMZWFybiBiYXNpYyBFbWFjcyBrZXlzdHJva2UgY29tbWFu ZHMiCiAgICAgICwobGFtYmRhICgpCkBAIC0xNjc0LDcgKzE2NzYsNyBAQCBmYW5jeS1hYm91dC10 ZXh0CiAJICAgICwobGFtYmRhIChfYnV0dG9uKQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgKGJyb3dzZS11cmwg Imh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmdudS5vcmcvc29mdHdhcmUvZW1hY3MvdG91ci8iKSkKIAkgICAgIkJyb3dz ZSBodHRwczovL3d3dy5nbnUub3JnL3NvZnR3YXJlL2VtYWNzL3RvdXIvIikKLSAgICAgIlx0U2Vl IGFuIG92ZXJ2aWV3IG9mIEVtYWNzIGZlYXR1cmVzIGF0IGdudS5vcmciKSkKKyAgICAgIlx0U2Vl IGFuIG92ZXJ2aWV3IG9mIEVtYWNzIGZlYXR1cmVzIGF0IGdudS5vcmdcbiIpKQogICAiQSBsaXN0 IG9mIHRleHRzIHRvIHNob3cgaW4gdGhlIG1pZGRsZSBwYXJ0IG9mIHRoZSBBYm91dCBzY3JlZW4u CiBFYWNoIGVsZW1lbnQgaW4gdGhlIGxpc3Qgc2hvdWxkIGJlIGEgbGlzdCBvZiBzdHJpbmdzIG9y IHBhaXJzCiBgOmZhY2UgRkFDRScsIGxpa2UgYGZhbmN5LXNwbGFzaC1pbnNlcnQnIGFjY2VwdHMg dGhlbS4iKQpAQCAtMjIxMSw3ICsyMjEzLDcgQEAgbm9ybWFsLWFib3V0LXNjcmVlbgogCQkgJ2Fj dGlvbgogCQkgKGxhbWJkYSAoX2J1dHRvbikgKGluZm8gIihlbWFjcylDb250cmlidXRpbmciKSkK IAkJICdmb2xsb3ctbGluayB0KQotICAoaW5zZXJ0ICJcdEhvdyB0byBjb250cmlidXRlIGltcHJv dmVtZW50cyB0byBFbWFjc1xuXG4iKQorICAoaW5zZXJ0ICJcdEhvdyB0byByZXBvcnQgYnVncyBh bmQgY29udHJpYnV0ZSBpbXByb3ZlbWVudHMgdG8gRW1hY3NcbiIpCiAKICAgKGluc2VydC1idXR0 b24gIkdOVSBhbmQgRnJlZWRvbSIKIAkJICdhY3Rpb24gKGxhbWJkYSAoX2J1dHRvbikgKGRlc2Ny aWJlLWdudS1wcm9qZWN0KSkKLS0gCjIuMjAuMQoK --0000000000004488f9059274467b-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 13 15:39:59 2019 Received: (at 20697) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Sep 2019 19:39:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45627 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i8rQF-0003kf-1k for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 15:39:59 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f182.google.com ([209.85.215.182]:41825) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i8rQC-0003kL-Vs for 20697@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 15:39:57 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f182.google.com with SMTP id x15so15756203pgg.8 for <20697@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 12:39:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Tdqv4Uw9/0a4VYcc1rGEvY13YVu80dUFoJtExAUugVk=; b=BAPYOupbJ0D5t3A9nrxgLYBrhm4J0bXAQYdIfL/TJfOlIleyCkEdcXSVY0Kxc2zezw ZCbuXmbe8qvxW8XjDIABgmPqD79cGO6PKQ1csyfS8cbJjoMTxv1ptwhGgtQ36Bk2yLMZ tM+/ZazUky+AlDghawUjMCY8O1fLCXlvUvPHDzSqs0fakWixRf9FpEZum2nyNitbag8G 20Zh+vprw00SmsmwQzepNWAh46qGwFRvvsfsbszlZyXfLLuO0zUnprDPNEvqpOZj2B/g 4eWXkoTeHsxQfJ/DMhyG73BVg4XW57rhxz0ZIT3l6VjkoG/2SzF899UOFMSNPORRWKTF aMIw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUvJIggLCGstKP+ReK85qTJ3kcaFasQadu5NMg7bLp58tpVf+Ft vXSgxlQGsqL0vwTKCncMgiSrKih0HXZGSBHEd8I= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxDaSnZmaVvDo9mWuh52rQVM3GSnMOJ/H7S+XpZOPmDnV+v/z7LZElAfrr0pYAPA6/xNbAU2tPgvq7DT+9StR0= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:8156:: with SMTP id d22mr31160314pfn.190.1568403591096; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 12:39:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <874l2az3r3.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <5d8f820c-4029-45cf-8fd7-b1fc44f8e6e3@default> In-Reply-To: <5d8f820c-4029-45cf-8fd7-b1fc44f8e6e3@default> From: Stefan Kangas Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 21:39:40 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#20697: 25.0.50; Mention `M-x report-emacs-bug' on splash screen To: Drew Adams Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20697 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 20697@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Drew Adams writes: > > > So this basically adds another line and links directly to the Bugs > > info > > > page. Hm. Would it be possible to instead just change the line > > > > > > Contributing How to contribute improvements to Emacs > > > > > > to something like the following? That link already links to the bug > > > reporting page... > > > > > > Contributing How to report bugs and contribute improvements > > > > I had missed that, but you're absolutely correct and I agree that its > > a better solution. > > I saw that "How to contribute..." but I thought/think > its destination is to the doc section about contributing. > > If so, that's not quite the same thing. > > It would be OK to have a single link that points to > something that covered both (1) `report-emacs-bug', > mentioning that that's also for enhancement requests, > and (2) how to contribute in a deeper way: GIT, patches > etc. (info "(emacs) Contributing") already says on the top of the page: There are many ways to contribute to Emacs: =E2=80=A2 find and report bugs; *Note Bugs::. So I think this is already a good landing page for both bugs and contributi= ons. > [Mentioning also enhancement requests was my input > for this bug thread.] Do you have any ideas for how to better emphasize enhancement requests? Should it be a separate bullet point on the "Contribute" page perhaps? > But in that case, the more lightweight feedback, #1, > should be separated and up front, so users wanting > to report a bug or suggest an enhancement need not > find themselves immediately in the depths of how to > contribute in a deeper way. I think that it's fine that users can click the link on the top of the page to reach (info "(emacs) Bugs"). It's separate enough, and early enough, that users can easily click on it and ignore the rest of the page, in my opinion. > We want (IMO) to encourage lots of users to provide > relatively easy feedback, beyond also wanting some > users to get more deeply involved. We don't want > people to get the impression that lightweight > suggestions are not possible or encouraged, and that > a heavy commitment is the only encouraged participation. I absolutely agree. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 13 16:14:10 2019 Received: (at 20697) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Sep 2019 20:14:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45655 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i8rxK-0004qu-3z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 16:14:10 -0400 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:36136) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i8rxG-0004qS-Qr for 20697@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 16:14:08 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x8DKDtYn120367; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 20:14:00 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2019-08-05; bh=7OK5BU/CrBzPWYbkuaP71kDbP/lbwqvPaayOELAB8bI=; b=G6seVJTiP02A0ULjsIhT1l37CRuCdyI6GSk8G21HXld6pztUgpVK3tk54mpK65eUInEK 4UWNh2WsTdULkbaUCZ8M/4UoS9lc8+dsr0XGTUIsmfJNMmxfD6hY6WCTAayCwa869X0V wddeGCRv3F/omCTcikFe1Mo13mbfgEettzdLqcxh8p5QUlablAN71b7F/lURTHZiB/yw 7EwqWTPsWrhsfsKxPH5ZRlrAu1jozKRNo2xTA0d7BGYUghmRqysvdw338wV4dx/6l4QX glGgmdvfdH33n07tQ4Xtw2sMUPthz5y39B1QFcdgs+ot2VQ5lrlixab+Ut1pWbO+PC4A Qg== Received: from aserp3030.oracle.com (aserp3030.oracle.com [141.146.126.71]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2uytd3pswm-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 13 Sep 2019 20:14:00 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x8DKCibb130975; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 20:13:59 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2uytdx89b2-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 13 Sep 2019 20:13:59 +0000 Received: from abhmp0005.oracle.com (abhmp0005.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id x8DKDwI0002756; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 20:13:58 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <5e1c6ad4-5c01-4989-bbcf-7e398ba9ede6@default> Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 13:13:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Stefan Kangas Subject: RE: bug#20697: 25.0.50; Mention `M-x report-emacs-bug' on splash screen References: <874l2az3r3.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <5d8f820c-4029-45cf-8fd7-b1fc44f8e6e3@default> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4888.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9379 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-1909130205 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9379 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-1909130205 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20697 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 20697@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > There are many ways to contribute to Emacs: > =E2=80=A2 find and report bugs; *Note Bugs::. >=20 > So I think this is already a good landing page for both bugs and > contributions. Yes. > > [Mentioning also enhancement requests was my input > > for this bug thread.] >=20 > Do you have any ideas for how to better emphasize enhancement > requests? Should it be a separate bullet point on the "Contribute" > page perhaps? My suggestion is to put it explicitly in the text/link that then leads you to the doc section that covers all of this. Although "contribute improvements" covers suggesting enhancements, I think the former suggests more substantial contribution than just asking for or suggesting a possible enhancement - something wished. I think it's important for users to see, up front, an invitation to make even minor or undeveloped, even possibly infeasible or not-well-thought-through suggestions. If that invitation is found only after following some "contribute" link to doc that covers everything, including full-blown patches, then its effect on inviting superficial suggestions can be lost. So I'd "waste" a few extra chars to spell out that invitation explicitly. Something like this: "How to report bugs and suggest or contribute possible improvements" > > But in that case, the more lightweight feedback, #1, > > should be separated and up front, so users wanting > > to report a bug or suggest an enhancement need not > > find themselves immediately in the depths of how to > > contribute in a deeper way. >=20 > I think that it's fine that users can click the link on the top of the > page to reach (info "(emacs) Bugs"). It's separate enough, and early > enough, that users can easily click on it and ignore the rest of the > page, in my opinion. See above. Separate enough and early enough, perhaps. But it doesn't explicitly invite suggestions, even blue-sky suggestions. That invitation is what I think is missing up front. > > We want (IMO) to encourage lots of users to provide > > relatively easy feedback, beyond also wanting some > > users to get more deeply involved. We don't want > > people to get the impression that lightweight > > suggestions are not possible or encouraged, and that > > a heavy commitment is the only encouraged participation. >=20 > I absolutely agree. Thanks for working on this. The patch looks good to me, though I'd prefer to also see what I mention above. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 14 02:41:01 2019 Received: (at 20697) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Sep 2019 06:41:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45796 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i91jx-0005pR-H1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 02:41:01 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:43626) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i91jv-0005pE-VU for 20697@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 02:41:00 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:48333) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1i91jq-0006tC-HP; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 02:40:54 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4094 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1i91jp-0001eA-V0; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 02:40:54 -0400 Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2019 09:41:09 +0300 Message-Id: <83sgozz8fu.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Kangas on Fri, 13 Sep 2019 21:29:25 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#20697: 25.0.50; Mention `M-x report-emacs-bug' on splash screen References: <874l2az3r3.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87mug2w65j.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20697 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 20697@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 21:29:25 +0200 > Cc: 20697@debbugs.gnu.org > > Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > > > Perhaps the "Absence of Warranty" and "Copying Conditions" could be > > merged into one line? > > Are there any legal implications here? Otherwise, I agree that it > would be a good change. I'd rather we didn't merge them, they are quite different issues. > @@ -1648,6 +1648,8 @@ fancy-about-text > :link ("Ordering Manuals" ,(lambda (_button) (view-order-manuals))) > "\tBuying printed manuals from the FSF\n" > "\n" > + :link ("Emacs Manual" ,(lambda (_button) (info-emacs-manual))) > + "\tDisplay the Emacs manual in Info mode\n" This should come after the Overview, IMO. > - "\tSee an overview of Emacs features at gnu.org")) > + "\tSee an overview of Emacs features at gnu.org\n")) Why do we need this extra newline? Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 14 08:02:16 2019 Received: (at 20697) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Sep 2019 12:02:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45942 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i96ko-0000yx-Um for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 08:02:15 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f173.google.com ([209.85.215.173]:45821) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i96km-0000yi-Gj for 20697@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 08:02:13 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f173.google.com with SMTP id 4so16694579pgm.12 for <20697@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 05:02:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KfHVL53UoRbnG0aCcREqMZ6pMFQOjPimkq0VW6Xnllk=; b=gQHZh5g2btLqtbgxTrA8dhuuLbLKp2cNvRx2x9gprGOZkBmWKOZrUYp4N/O4tIOs9a +1FD5WQ7HXAUQUkw98pczGLuOGxmvZH7e9tTEL4PFTxe9U5bPbjP3pFNmsHs+9eUrYpR af1tJQoTwZoX/6XP0/PLEu9k+wWS85AwlFUOZQLsXVPM5cVFwWo5eKDmCDeJuV6yRO0V mYm7Aip9fAyPwXKI6yeiEE4cBguoXMUf/XpqDJPPt5KIjV8FZQ4tUP0/59ZmnLjpWxYQ zHReY+AK+z89EPH6o8u4Pcwbg7bxkRZRZOQsixgmjLCZXZykewnteC0EXcQL8SnCM3cV +P7g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWrxQO80XVrdtSQEbIUHuzhpo1FWl0Pzp2t9DfXfNx3/wVoXXsY nx7htzOZ2ONMX/4HKxtOoa3WwuIQtwjR0XPv8fQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyAcXwTnTmQKcsflGmD+aCQOUOjINVudk7qlSdMTke1p0PLNY1MowKIdqIgjfX4jlHYTJJ8v5QznOWw3+vopAo= X-Received: by 2002:a63:ef4d:: with SMTP id c13mr11104215pgk.200.1568462526365; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 05:02:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <874l2az3r3.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <5d8f820c-4029-45cf-8fd7-b1fc44f8e6e3@default> <5e1c6ad4-5c01-4989-bbcf-7e398ba9ede6@default> In-Reply-To: <5e1c6ad4-5c01-4989-bbcf-7e398ba9ede6@default> From: Stefan Kangas Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2019 14:01:54 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#20697: 25.0.50; Mention `M-x report-emacs-bug' on splash screen To: Drew Adams Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="000000000000babce1059282234f" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20697 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 20697@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --000000000000babce1059282234f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Drew Adams writes: > > Do you have any ideas for how to better emphasize enhancement > > requests? Should it be a separate bullet point on the "Contribute" > > page perhaps? > > My suggestion is to put it explicitly in the text/link > that then leads you to the doc section that covers all > of this. > > Although "contribute improvements" covers suggesting > enhancements, I think the former suggests more > substantial contribution than just asking for or > suggesting a possible enhancement - something wished. > > I think it's important for users to see, up front, > an invitation to make even minor or undeveloped, even > possibly infeasible or not-well-thought-through > suggestions. > > If that invitation is found only after following some > "contribute" link to doc that covers everything, > including full-blown patches, then its effect on > inviting superficial suggestions can be lost. > > So I'd "waste" a few extra chars to spell out that > invitation explicitly. Something like this: > > "How to report bugs and suggest or contribute possible improvements" I find that line a bit too packed with information to be easily parsed. I think that the concern Lars has pointed out is valid here: the about screen is already very dense. I came up with the attached tentative patch that adds a paragraph to "Contributing" manual page, attached here for discussion. But thinking about this a bit more, I can't decide if it's a good idea to encourage this or not. There is a risk that we get too many low quality suggestions that we will waste a lot of time handling. But perhaps that's an unwarranted fear, and the biggest problem in the long run might be users that feel distant and disengaged from Emacs development. Encouraging feature suggestions might help draw in new developers. On the other hand, what we need more than suggestions would be patches to fix what is already in the bug tracker, and this doesn't do much to help that. There are already many worthy and good projects in the bug tracker, suitable for everything from beginners to experts. More low quality feature requests would make it harder to find these requests in the bug tracker, thus raising the barrier for new developers. So I see both arguments as valid here, and I'm conflicted between them. Since it's a social issue more than a technical one, I'm not sure there is one correct answer. Perhaps the question is simply if this is subjectively desirable from the point of view of the leading Emacs developers? After all, they are the ones who will do the majority of the work handling these suggestions. Best regards, Stefan Kangas --000000000000babce1059282234f Content-Type: text/x-patch; charset="US-ASCII"; name="0001-Document-feature-requests-in-the-Emacs-manual.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-Document-feature-requests-in-the-Emacs-manual.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: X-Attachment-Id: f_k0ji2vf50 RnJvbSAwMDljMDFkOWRmMzEwM2QwZTA4MjhkZmI2YTVmYThkY2Q1YWNhMmJhIE1vbiBTZXAgMTcg MDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBTdGVmYW4gS2FuZ2FzIDxzdGVmYW5rYW5nYXNAZ21haWwuY29t PgpEYXRlOiBTYXQsIDE0IFNlcCAyMDE5IDEzOjI3OjEwICswMjAwClN1YmplY3Q6IFtQQVRDSF0g RG9jdW1lbnQgZmVhdHVyZSByZXF1ZXN0cyBpbiB0aGUgRW1hY3MgbWFudWFsCgoqIGRvYy9lbWFj cy90cm91YmxlLnRleGkgKENvbnRyaWJ1dGluZyk6IERvY3VtZW50IGZlYXR1cmUKcmVxdWVzdHMu ICAoQnVnMjA2OTcpCi0tLQogZG9jL2VtYWNzL3Ryb3VibGUudGV4aSB8IDEzICsrKysrKysrKysr KysKIDEgZmlsZSBjaGFuZ2VkLCAxMyBpbnNlcnRpb25zKCspCgpkaWZmIC0tZ2l0IGEvZG9jL2Vt YWNzL3Ryb3VibGUudGV4aSBiL2RvYy9lbWFjcy90cm91YmxlLnRleGkKaW5kZXggMTNkM2U4NDc1 Yy4uMTdkZTZlZGVjOCAxMDA2NDQKLS0tIGEvZG9jL2VtYWNzL3Ryb3VibGUudGV4aQorKysgYi9k b2MvZW1hY3MvdHJvdWJsZS50ZXhpCkBAIC0xMjk5LDYgKzEyOTksMTkgQEAgQ29udHJpYnV0aW5n CiBAZW5kIGlmaHRtbAogWW91IGNhbiBhc2sgZm9yIHN1Z2dlc3RlZCBwcm9qZWN0cyBvciBzdWdn ZXN0IHlvdXIgb3duIGlkZWFzLgogCitJZiB5b3UgaGF2ZSBhIGZlYXR1cmUgcmVxdWVzdCBvciBh IHN1Z2dlc3Rpb24gZm9yIGhvdyB0byBpbXByb3ZlCitFbWFjcywgdGhlIGJlc3QgcGxhY2UgdG8g c2VuZCBpdCBpcyB0bworQGlmbm90aHRtbAorQGVtYWlse2J1Zy1nbnUtZW1hY3Mub3JnfQorQGVu ZCBpZm5vdGh0bWwKK0BpZmh0bWwKK0B1cmx7aHR0cHM6Ly9saXN0cy5nbnUub3JnL21haWxtYW4v bGlzdGluZm8vYnVnLWdudS1lbWFjcywgYnVnLWdudS1lbWFjc30KK0BlbmQgaWZodG1sCisuICBQ bGVhc2UgZXhwbGFpbiBpbiBjbGVhciBsYW5ndWFnZSBleGFjdGx5IHdoYXQgY2hhbmdlIHlvdSB3 b3VsZCBsaWtlCit0byBzZWUsIGFuZCB3aHkgYW5kIGhvdyB5b3UgdGhpbmsgaXQgd291bGQgaW1w cm92ZSBFbWFjcy4gIElmIHlvdXIKK3N1Z2dlc3Rpb24gaXMgYWNjZXB0ZWQsIHRoaXMgd2lsbCBh bGxvdyBpdCB0byBzdGFuZCBhIGJldHRlciBjaGFuY2Ugb2YKK2F0dHJhY3RpbmcgaW50ZXJlc3Qg ZnJvbSBvbmUgb2YgbWFueSB2b2x1bnRlZXIgRW1hY3MgZGV2ZWxvcGVycy4KKwogSWYgeW91IGhh dmUgYWxyZWFkeSB3cml0dGVuIGFuIGltcHJvdmVtZW50LCBwbGVhc2UgdGVsbCB1cyBhYm91dCBp dC4gIElmCiB5b3UgaGF2ZSBub3QgeWV0IHN0YXJ0ZWQgd29yaywgaXQgaXMgdXNlZnVsIHRvIGNv bnRhY3QKIEBpZm5vdGh0bWwKLS0gCjIuMjAuMQoK --000000000000babce1059282234f-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 14 08:07:15 2019 Received: (at 20697) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Sep 2019 12:07:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45950 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i96pf-000165-K1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 08:07:15 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f169.google.com ([209.85.214.169]:47040) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i96pc-00015q-1f for 20697@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 08:07:14 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f169.google.com with SMTP id t1so14464243plq.13 for <20697@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 05:07:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=0nFLlYzB4P0TxUwDvAhYlQUABpzbnkI7takc1XEN9fg=; b=oLGgNEPX93u2QvAVg0Kzw3gh8UpSpWi8/AzTBoCFZrudaRcjydx8lSqLyz4cIbW/q2 QArRvdELgNmvAG1jc+EAC+0ENZJVd84gSI6sGuJeAtpkCc6lgZcMDH46fhUu9AbGB3ox TsFqd4cU7S39tXq0G+oxO0NxISyK8rOO65gr4el5Uc/AH52HH4wykt/NlSmMGK+KVLwY hDPrucz3QFUHkmGZ36mn5qHABq1PbYxRiCWNX7mR1rSghd5rwKLYlu6F9E6zs1Zr47lW PLoJP8PA09L6QxQZgPXGjkeTwC2lGeU/Hrg7AKNFuZmsUY/BurW9AsU6ug6v+Sg+H7Ys 5oPw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUbgXTbo75QmVq2CgFr83FPHmFp8bbzrtNgOOvKT/zGDyIGpnxj 7kHDEIqoy4Y1nFs4Q5CBZpoFGTjDUmN0/WcUVdU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzt4jXDWLJkawe/fdesIlgmr2UIeaSctUcgsSaiCgx1moUt3BQmv4UY+S9LvjEiLB3Mm2F+sbajvuq+QVDp2Uk= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:8b8c:: with SMTP id ay12mr51617888plb.251.1568462826266; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 05:07:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <874l2az3r3.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87mug2w65j.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <83sgozz8fu.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83sgozz8fu.fsf@gnu.org> From: Stefan Kangas Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2019 14:06:55 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#20697: 25.0.50; Mention `M-x report-emacs-bug' on splash screen To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0000000000009a9c5a05928235a4" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20697 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 20697@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --0000000000009a9c5a05928235a4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > Perhaps the "Absence of Warranty" and "Copying Conditions" could be > > > merged into one line? > > > > Are there any legal implications here? Otherwise, I agree that it > > would be a good change. > > I'd rather we didn't merge them, they are quite different issues. Fine by me. > > @@ -1648,6 +1648,8 @@ fancy-about-text > > :link ("Ordering Manuals" ,(lambda (_button) (view-order-manuals))) > > "\tBuying printed manuals from the FSF\n" > > "\n" > > + :link ("Emacs Manual" ,(lambda (_button) (info-emacs-manual))) > > + "\tDisplay the Emacs manual in Info mode\n" > > This should come after the Overview, IMO. Fixed. > > - "\tSee an overview of Emacs features at gnu.org")) > > + "\tSee an overview of Emacs features at gnu.org\n")) > > Why do we need this extra newline? That was included by mistake, but is necessary if the manual is the last entry. So I'm keeping it here. Please find attached an updated patch. Best regards, Stefan Kangas --0000000000009a9c5a05928235a4 Content-Type: text/x-patch; charset="US-ASCII"; name="0001-Add-bug-reporting-and-link-the-manual-on-the-about-s.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-Add-bug-reporting-and-link-the-manual-on-the-about-s.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: X-Attachment-Id: f_k0jfv9nl0 RnJvbSA3ZWVlZGM0N2UxODNkYzc5MzdiNzMxODNiZDU0NmE4NmRlYWNjOTEwIE1vbiBTZXAgMTcg MDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBTdGVmYW4gS2FuZ2FzIDxzdGVmYW5rYW5nYXNAZ21haWwuY29t PgpEYXRlOiBGcmksIDEzIFNlcCAyMDE5IDIxOjIzOjI0ICswMjAwClN1YmplY3Q6IFtQQVRDSF0g QWRkIGJ1ZyByZXBvcnRpbmcgYW5kIGxpbmsgdGhlIG1hbnVhbCBvbiB0aGUgYWJvdXQgc2NyZWVu CgoqIGxpc3Avc3RhcnR1cC5lbCAoZmFuY3ktYWJvdXQtdGV4dCwgbm9ybWFsLWFib3V0LXNjcmVl bik6IENsYXJpZnkKdGhhdCAiQ29udHJpYnV0ZSIgYWxzbyBkZXNjcmliZXMgaG93IHRvIHJlcG9y dCBidWdzLiAgQWRkIG5ldyBsaW5rCiJFbWFjcyBNYW51YWwiLiAgKEJ1ZyMyMDY5NykKLS0tCiBs aXNwL3N0YXJ0dXAuZWwgfCA4ICsrKysrLS0tCiAxIGZpbGUgY2hhbmdlZCwgNSBpbnNlcnRpb25z KCspLCAzIGRlbGV0aW9ucygtKQoKZGlmZiAtLWdpdCBhL2xpc3Avc3RhcnR1cC5lbCBiL2xpc3Av c3RhcnR1cC5lbAppbmRleCBlZjYyMzQxMjhhLi42ZTU2OTE2OGUyIDEwMDY0NAotLS0gYS9saXNw L3N0YXJ0dXAuZWwKKysrIGIvbGlzcC9zdGFydHVwLmVsCkBAIC0xNjMyLDcgKzE2MzIsNyBAQCBm YW5jeS1hYm91dC10ZXh0CiAgICAgICJcdE1hbnkgcGVvcGxlIGhhdmUgY29udHJpYnV0ZWQgY29k ZSBpbmNsdWRlZCBpbiBHTlUgRW1hY3NcbiIKICAgICAgOmxpbmsgKCJDb250cmlidXRpbmciCiAJ ICAgICwobGFtYmRhIChfYnV0dG9uKSAoaW5mbyAiKGVtYWNzKUNvbnRyaWJ1dGluZyIpKSkKLSAg ICAgIlx0SG93IHRvIGNvbnRyaWJ1dGUgaW1wcm92ZW1lbnRzIHRvIEVtYWNzXG4iCisgICAgICJc dEhvdyB0byByZXBvcnQgYnVncyBhbmQgY29udHJpYnV0ZSBpbXByb3ZlbWVudHMgdG8gRW1hY3Nc biIKICAgICAgIlxuIgogICAgICA6bGluayAoIkdOVSBhbmQgRnJlZWRvbSIgLChsYW1iZGEgKF9i dXR0b24pIChkZXNjcmliZS1nbnUtcHJvamVjdCkpKQogICAgICAiXHRXaHkgd2UgZGV2ZWxvcGVk IEdOVSBFbWFjcywgYW5kIHRoZSBHTlUgb3BlcmF0aW5nIHN5c3RlbVxuIgpAQCAtMTY3NCw3ICsx Njc0LDkgQEAgZmFuY3ktYWJvdXQtdGV4dAogCSAgICAsKGxhbWJkYSAoX2J1dHRvbikKICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgIChicm93c2UtdXJsICJodHRwczovL3d3dy5nbnUub3JnL3NvZnR3YXJlL2VtYWNz L3RvdXIvIikpCiAJICAgICJCcm93c2UgaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ251Lm9yZy9zb2Z0d2FyZS9lbWFj cy90b3VyLyIpCi0gICAgICJcdFNlZSBhbiBvdmVydmlldyBvZiBFbWFjcyBmZWF0dXJlcyBhdCBn bnUub3JnIikpCisgICAgICJcdFNlZSBhbiBvdmVydmlldyBvZiBFbWFjcyBmZWF0dXJlcyBhdCBn bnUub3JnXG4iCisgICAgIDpsaW5rICgiRW1hY3MgTWFudWFsIiAsKGxhbWJkYSAoX2J1dHRvbikg KGluZm8tZW1hY3MtbWFudWFsKSkpCisgICAgICJcdERpc3BsYXkgdGhlIEVtYWNzIG1hbnVhbCBp biBJbmZvIG1vZGUiKSkKICAgIkEgbGlzdCBvZiB0ZXh0cyB0byBzaG93IGluIHRoZSBtaWRkbGUg cGFydCBvZiB0aGUgQWJvdXQgc2NyZWVuLgogRWFjaCBlbGVtZW50IGluIHRoZSBsaXN0IHNob3Vs ZCBiZSBhIGxpc3Qgb2Ygc3RyaW5ncyBvciBwYWlycwogYDpmYWNlIEZBQ0UnLCBsaWtlIGBmYW5j eS1zcGxhc2gtaW5zZXJ0JyBhY2NlcHRzIHRoZW0uIikKQEAgLTIyMTEsNyArMjIxMyw3IEBAIG5v cm1hbC1hYm91dC1zY3JlZW4KIAkJICdhY3Rpb24KIAkJIChsYW1iZGEgKF9idXR0b24pIChpbmZv ICIoZW1hY3MpQ29udHJpYnV0aW5nIikpCiAJCSAnZm9sbG93LWxpbmsgdCkKLSAgKGluc2VydCAi XHRIb3cgdG8gY29udHJpYnV0ZSBpbXByb3ZlbWVudHMgdG8gRW1hY3NcblxuIikKKyAgKGluc2Vy dCAiXHRIb3cgdG8gcmVwb3J0IGJ1Z3MgYW5kIGNvbnRyaWJ1dGUgaW1wcm92ZW1lbnRzIHRvIEVt YWNzXG5cbiIpCiAKICAgKGluc2VydC1idXR0b24gIkdOVSBhbmQgRnJlZWRvbSIKIAkJICdhY3Rp b24gKGxhbWJkYSAoX2J1dHRvbikgKGRlc2NyaWJlLWdudS1wcm9qZWN0KSkKLS0gCjIuMjAuMQoK --0000000000009a9c5a05928235a4-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 14 08:11:49 2019 Received: (at 20697) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Sep 2019 12:11:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45959 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i96u3-0001Ci-At for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 08:11:49 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]:33152) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i96u1-0001Ca-5j for 20697@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 08:11:45 -0400 Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=marnie) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1i96tx-0007vO-9q; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 14:11:43 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#20697: 25.0.50; Mention `M-x report-emacs-bug' on splash screen References: <874l2az3r3.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87mug2w65j.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2019 14:11:40 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Fri, 13 Sep 2019 21:29:25 +0200") Message-ID: <87muf784cj.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Kangas writes: > Please see the attached patch. I've incorporated your suggestion and > added a link to the manual. Thanks; looks good to me (after Eli's comments). Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20697 Cc: Drew Adams , 20697@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Kangas writes: > Please see the attached patch. I've incorporated your suggestion and > added a link to the manual. Thanks; looks good to me (after Eli's comments). -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 14 11:54:54 2019 Received: (at 20697) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Sep 2019 15:54:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47086 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i9ANx-0000Nv-SH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 11:54:54 -0400 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:59850) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i9ANs-0000Ne-NQ for 20697@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 11:54:49 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x8EFsWXS123165; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 15:54:42 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2019-08-05; bh=0hKvPZ4LV2Cv6u6HJLXRyvOkUyxWrcEeQejbZ9j82aE=; b=H1k6WbaYbQFhmEG9SG8Pdxfn+6vxeH2IRNTvRrcFJVNCC+oEUhvYr3xhWF8hbPUy668g xj04wc5DSi2KzNPkYZ6OowdIKTKOMYD322zwnUCmlpTJCyDi6prMDj50mWh4aCSK3MGO p2+UipP3H23aHVbYXcX3ORq3oePsV9qcQiurKvOXjkEMx8jnErdzP30DL67wpkYXjuAB x4nEDS/ZAdiyz1pql/r6vT9gz/NWeDIi5FE7BSf7IEjmnOjYjItw6IxhSF9mJq4QQwGt 1lC7NGHhNrPe1BJXgOFq8tl2IKGcuQQMcvHs9DbdTrEWXAIR1x3SL17kG+tEQc2ejXTS pg== Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2v0qmt1k38-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 14 Sep 2019 15:54:42 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x8EFrvS1061171; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 15:54:42 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2v0nb1w89u-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 14 Sep 2019 15:54:41 +0000 Received: from abhmp0002.oracle.com (abhmp0002.oracle.com [141.146.116.8]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id x8EFsbIJ006870; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 15:54:37 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4496bd9e-58ee-45b5-967d-3402ce4999bd@default> Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2019 08:54:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Stefan Kangas Subject: RE: bug#20697: 25.0.50; Mention `M-x report-emacs-bug' on splash screen References: <874l2az3r3.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <5d8f820c-4029-45cf-8fd7-b1fc44f8e6e3@default> <5e1c6ad4-5c01-4989-bbcf-7e398ba9ede6@default> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4888.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9380 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-1909140168 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9380 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-1909140168 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20697 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 20697@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > > Do you have any ideas for how to better emphasize enhancement > > > requests? Should it be a separate bullet point on the "Contribute" > > > page perhaps? > > > > My suggestion is to put it explicitly in the text/link > > that then leads you to the doc section that covers all > > of this. > > > > Although "contribute improvements" covers suggesting > > enhancements, I think the former suggests more > > substantial contribution than just asking for or > > suggesting a possible enhancement - something wished. > > > > I think it's important for users to see, up front, > > an invitation to make even minor or undeveloped, even > > possibly infeasible or not-well-thought-through > > suggestions. > > > > If that invitation is found only after following some > > "contribute" link to doc that covers everything, > > including full-blown patches, then its effect on > > inviting superficial suggestions can be lost. > > > > So I'd "waste" a few extra chars to spell out that > > invitation explicitly. Something like this: > > > > "How to report bugs and suggest or contribute possible improvements" >=20 > I find that line a bit too packed with information to be easily > parsed. I think that the concern Lars has pointed out is valid here: > the about screen is already very dense. Then get rid of some other parts of the link text or other parts of the too-dense screen. Don't get rid of the part about suggesting improvements. This bug report is especially about explicitly inviting enhancement suggestions/wishes. That needs to be on top, up-front, in link text - not relegated to some text at the link target. IMO, this is important. Users who really want to contribute heavily will inevitably find the info about how to do so. That's not a problem now. What's missing, IMO, is a general, well-advertised, make-it-obvious-that-it's-easy-to-do invitation for any and all (whatever their Emacs level) to pass along their suggestions, however blue-sky or half-baked. That should be one of the _main_ things visible and obvious on the splash page etc. It should be one of our main messages. Emacs users should learn right off-the-bat that _they_ are the focus of Emacs: its purpose. Emacs is developed by its users for its users - from core, steady, heavy lifters to newbie ride-by tourists. > I came up with the attached tentative patch that adds a paragraph to > "Contributing" manual page, attached here for discussion. >=20 > But thinking about this a bit more, I can't decide if it's a good idea > to encourage this or not. There is a risk that we get too many low > quality suggestions that we will waste a lot of time handling. I couldn't disagree more with such fear/hesitation. Nothing requires particular action on any suggestion. Nothing even requires consideration of any given suggestion. It's important to get Emacs users involved with their own ideas. Get them thinking about their experiences using Emacs and expressing those thoughts. All ideas, good as well as not-so-good, start out raw or at best half-baked. The emphasis has too long been on setting a high bar - a premature gate to receiving user input. Just adding a friendly encouragement to speak up will help Emacs, not hurt it. > But perhaps that's an unwarranted fear, It's not only an unwarranted fear, IMO. It's restrictive for no reason. Far from discouraging, we should be encouraging suggestions of all sorts. There's plenty of time after receiving a suggestion to consider whether it is "low quality". Prejudging by discouraging, essentially hiding/suppressing the invitation, is backward. > and the biggest problem in the > long run might be users that feel distant and disengaged from Emacs > development. Encouraging feature suggestions might help draw in new > developers. Yes, it might draw in new developers. But Emacs doesn't just need more developers. It will also put existing developers more in touch with more user thoughts and experiences - and provide them with much more food for thought. Emacs features have often come from beyond its "core developers", though some such outsiders later became active developers. That's just the way it works. Even stuff that has become part of distributed (i.e. vanilla) Emacs started as 3rd-party code - see `(emacs)Acknowledgments'. And some features that many users make heavy use of are still outside vanilla Emacs. And plenty of developments have resulted from suggestions by users who never helped develop those features. Any developer of a 3rd-party library knows how helpful user input is - as food for thought as well as pointing out problems. > On the other hand, what we need more than suggestions would be patches > to fix It's not one or the other, or one more than the other. Those are different things. But they're related in the sense that someone encouraged to contribute a suggestion might later contribute a bug fix. > what is already in the bug tracker, and this doesn't do much to > help that. That's not its (direct) aim. (But see previous.) > There are already many worthy and good projects in the bug > tracker, suitable for everything from beginners to experts. Again, that's something else. As Eli is wont to say, correctly, things in Emacs get added/changed because someone had an itch and scratched it. That someone doesn't want to or doesn't have the time to work on a particular bug fix or feature suggestion doesn't mean someone won't work on another suggestion. > More low quality feature requests would make it harder > to find these requests in the bug tracker, thus raising > the barrier for new developers. I don't buy that. But if it's true then that in itself calls for another new feature: better bug-tracker search/organization, ways to lower the barrier for new developers. > So I see both arguments as valid here, and I'm conflicted between > them. They aren't contradictory needs - at least not in the sense of being mutually exclusive. Their contradiction is dialectical. Inviting users to suggest things does not impede bug fixing or other Emacs development. That's a false binary choice. That's essentially saying, "We don't want to hear more suggestions, especially from newbies or half-baked suggestions, because we already have a lot of more important work to do." > Since it's a social issue more than a technical one, I'm not > sure there is one correct answer. >=20 > Perhaps the question is simply if this is subjectively desirable from > the point of view of the leading Emacs developers? After all, they > are the ones who will do the majority of the work handling these > suggestions. Not necessarily. See above. Someone feels an itch - maybe suggested by someone else, and works on it - a little bit or a lot. Someone else picks up on that work and fixes/improves it. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 28 09:39:34 2019 Received: (at 20697) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Sep 2019 13:39:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49468 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iECwf-000751-Ns for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 09:39:33 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f177.google.com ([209.85.215.177]:37054) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iECwd-00074l-9t for 20697@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 09:39:32 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f177.google.com with SMTP id c17so4928158pgg.4 for <20697@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 06:39:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=NZPnz0LUjWpnXFMSSVthHof7/ft9b/d7s1OuLFae8uM=; b=REs0F8CKA/qphsOFssMSW6kRGRmvUCXLvTcE7uufvQQw1Vxly4Qw0bj07/mrqwsJ+h 44SFlSzL7v8oCwE9ZcDmZmwfvnvEqIYoLYwSvxieeuWOudKKwD51x86A1VS6Z6l+LNGy 1Bv4NKz2EVypAvMjHvl4PuR9NHkhRmTWT3yfbv0vMqP1u3lmshSXff1cXwbMAlJfBTbI mDlQVo8ADfxb9cxDvlac8rfe66qe46kd5GAug2IrpLptHQNqTUYOlfh5wk/eMxZqQ6mB qzm+KjOnv7mYQUfXP8Wz8R2oYFRUjfzMEYL410UPoGiLYLWDugICK3tre3lmWCpyxej2 cGDw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAW3xqKIJBGo48c5vMHCSgu67CBZDWjTtNQ7eTECkRHEEysuWjLL TGV43j4kOHdt6jQSnjJTCDtWZfPhiGgCZbJs4cw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx97Xfpls6KdgCK4PnpZR6dNF3uYA7HonlPghpGFA4aRbJlRL/eBGDghpX9ITdPCnEjgcCmz4d41jfSTOR/CWE= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:1150:: with SMTP id d16mr16563138pje.2.1569677965312; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 06:39:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <874l2az3r3.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87mug2w65j.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <87muf784cj.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <87muf784cj.fsf@gnus.org> From: Stefan Kangas Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 15:39:14 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#20697: 25.0.50; Mention `M-x report-emacs-bug' on splash screen To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20697 Cc: Drew Adams , 20697@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > > Stefan Kangas writes: > > > Please see the attached patch. I've incorporated your suggestion and > > added a link to the manual. > > Thanks; looks good to me (after Eli's comments). Thanks, I've now pushed this as commit 3026af7744. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 28 09:45:18 2019 Received: (at 20697) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Sep 2019 13:45:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49485 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iED2E-0007EU-GL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 09:45:18 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f175.google.com ([209.85.215.175]:34389) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iED2B-0007EA-Ez for 20697@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 09:45:17 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f175.google.com with SMTP id y35so4943843pgl.1 for <20697@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 06:45:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=klU883XWR0jk24nfAwrZ1aJYzPYIQMa8w5gMuLGm5Z8=; b=kd5CmNDKO3C7wy/ZpEU2+/4J4WJD22pMq2OMV7SNohBZ5nMVn1NrnzArqFPsfT+L5D yWg02JzP/m/N9gU1LSQbvUHHDoQGhFNJUzSg5/DOMVPY9ytNI6CohNXo57XKEQPMvh4q vO0KIK2kCQT+xnJyPyYaUNd8t9tfjyMterK5PutmR6RPiAMbrwBvnCUnB57hsxaqiJcf Gx5jOYLCdoJ2BGKZn/1OLUmNbhdRb0/ojKszIzXDboLhxq20ppqwiuhYS/UX8bP/urcJ ciMpXIjTJgbL+Cn9+MQd0w50q6HueTwb0Pq130LzlTjcHJa658NxG7i5tL5BW8kLNiHc a7Cw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVIBKE0Abpda1HcUTstnNcIEVp2qNLOse7xJxUN8DvlvQsplB+I MpvL+fDbTMI+ZomNqRm3HTXLbLOIgbWGM3JR2e0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx/ceiBTt+OvO4XrDpERUX7qLgIes4bJYiE5j3WpA/70PNpPo8Gw9SfPNYGQA31jvLIHQxv3LCWOBr7sP837+k= X-Received: by 2002:a63:1310:: with SMTP id i16mr13717508pgl.200.1569678309533; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 06:45:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <874l2az3r3.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <5d8f820c-4029-45cf-8fd7-b1fc44f8e6e3@default> <5e1c6ad4-5c01-4989-bbcf-7e398ba9ede6@default> <4496bd9e-58ee-45b5-967d-3402ce4999bd@default> In-Reply-To: <4496bd9e-58ee-45b5-967d-3402ce4999bd@default> From: Stefan Kangas Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 15:44:58 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#20697: 25.0.50; Mention `M-x report-emacs-bug' on splash screen To: Drew Adams Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0000000000000d60c005939d36cc" X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20697 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 20697@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) --0000000000000d60c005939d36cc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Drew Adams writes: > > > So I'd "waste" a few extra chars to spell out that > > > invitation explicitly. Something like this: > > > > > > "How to report bugs and suggest or contribute possible improvements" > > > > I find that line a bit too packed with information to be easily > > parsed. I think that the concern Lars has pointed out is valid here: > > the about screen is already very dense. > > Then get rid of some other parts of the link text or > other parts of the too-dense screen. Don't get rid > of the part about suggesting improvements. > > This bug report is especially about explicitly > inviting enhancement suggestions/wishes. That needs > to be on top, up-front, in link text - not relegated > to some text at the link target. [...] > > I came up with the attached tentative patch that adds a paragraph to > > "Contributing" manual page, attached here for discussion. > > > > But thinking about this a bit more, I can't decide if it's a good idea > > to encourage this or not. There is a risk that we get too many low > > quality suggestions that we will waste a lot of time handling. > > I couldn't disagree more with such fear/hesitation. I largely agree with what you're saying; thanks for spelling it out. I see two options to move forward here: 1. Add a new item (or reformulate an old one) on the splash screen. 2. Add something to the "Contributing" page about feature suggestions. I'm not too enthusiastic about option 1, but I've re-attached my patch which tries to do 2. (They are not mutually exclusive.) Any other opinions, please? Best regards, Stefan Kangas --0000000000000d60c005939d36cc Content-Type: text/x-patch; charset="US-ASCII"; name="0001-Document-feature-requests-in-the-Emacs-manual.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-Document-feature-requests-in-the-Emacs-manual.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: X-Attachment-Id: f_k13lx6n00 RnJvbSAxYTQ0NTEzM2M0N2MyZmE1OTZmYTViZGViZTE1MDk5MWZkZTllZTZmIE1vbiBTZXAgMTcg MDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBTdGVmYW4gS2FuZ2FzIDxzdGVmYW5rYW5nYXNAZ21haWwuY29t PgpEYXRlOiBTYXQsIDE0IFNlcCAyMDE5IDEzOjI3OjEwICswMjAwClN1YmplY3Q6IFtQQVRDSF0g RG9jdW1lbnQgZmVhdHVyZSByZXF1ZXN0cyBpbiB0aGUgRW1hY3MgbWFudWFsCgoqIGRvYy9lbWFj cy90cm91YmxlLnRleGkgKENvbnRyaWJ1dGluZyk6IERvY3VtZW50IGZlYXR1cmUKcmVxdWVzdHMu ICAoQnVnMjA2OTcpCi0tLQogZG9jL2VtYWNzL3Ryb3VibGUudGV4aSB8IDEzICsrKysrKysrKysr KysKIDEgZmlsZSBjaGFuZ2VkLCAxMyBpbnNlcnRpb25zKCspCgpkaWZmIC0tZ2l0IGEvZG9jL2Vt YWNzL3Ryb3VibGUudGV4aSBiL2RvYy9lbWFjcy90cm91YmxlLnRleGkKaW5kZXggMTNkM2U4NDc1 Yy4uZjBmOWFmMjBiOCAxMDA2NDQKLS0tIGEvZG9jL2VtYWNzL3Ryb3VibGUudGV4aQorKysgYi9k b2MvZW1hY3MvdHJvdWJsZS50ZXhpCkBAIC0xMjk5LDYgKzEyOTksMTkgQEAgQ29udHJpYnV0aW5n CiBAZW5kIGlmaHRtbAogWW91IGNhbiBhc2sgZm9yIHN1Z2dlc3RlZCBwcm9qZWN0cyBvciBzdWdn ZXN0IHlvdXIgb3duIGlkZWFzLgogCitJZiB5b3UgaGF2ZSBhIGZlYXR1cmUgcmVxdWVzdCBvciBh IHN1Z2dlc3Rpb24gZm9yIGhvdyB0byBpbXByb3ZlCitFbWFjcywgdGhlIGJlc3QgcGxhY2UgdG8g c2VuZCBpdCBpcyB0bworQGlmbm90aHRtbAorQGVtYWlse2J1Zy1nbnUtZW1hY3Mub3JnfQorQGVu ZCBpZm5vdGh0bWwKK0BpZmh0bWwKK0B1cmx7aHR0cHM6Ly9saXN0cy5nbnUub3JnL21haWxtYW4v bGlzdGluZm8vYnVnLWdudS1lbWFjcywgYnVnLWdudS1lbWFjc30KK0BlbmQgaWZodG1sCisuICBQ bGVhc2UgZXhwbGFpbiBpbiBjbGVhciBsYW5ndWFnZSBleGFjdGx5IHdoYXQgY2hhbmdlIHlvdSB3 b3VsZCBsaWtlCit0byBzZWUsIGFuZCB3aHkgYW5kIGhvdyB5b3UgdGhpbmsgaXQgd291bGQgaW1w cm92ZSBFbWFjcy4gIElmIHlvdXIKK3N1Z2dlc3Rpb24gaXMgYWNjZXB0ZWQsIHRoaXMgd2lsbCBp bmNyZWFzZSBpdHMgY2hhbmNlcyBvZiBhdHRyYWN0aW5nCitpbnRlcmVzdCBmcm9tIG9uZSBvZiBt YW55IHZvbHVudGVlciBFbWFjcyBkZXZlbG9wZXJzLgorCiBJZiB5b3UgaGF2ZSBhbHJlYWR5IHdy aXR0ZW4gYW4gaW1wcm92ZW1lbnQsIHBsZWFzZSB0ZWxsIHVzIGFib3V0IGl0LiAgSWYKIHlvdSBo YXZlIG5vdCB5ZXQgc3RhcnRlZCB3b3JrLCBpdCBpcyB1c2VmdWwgdG8gY29udGFjdAogQGlmbm90 aHRtbAotLSAKMi4yMC4xCgo= --0000000000000d60c005939d36cc-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 28 09:50:12 2019 Received: (at 20697) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Sep 2019 13:50:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49493 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iED6y-0007Ls-JX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 09:50:12 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f182.google.com ([209.85.214.182]:42365) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iED6w-0007Lb-Sa for 20697@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 09:50:11 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f182.google.com with SMTP id e5so2145183pls.9 for <20697@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 06:50:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=hfEC3rLKykpgbONzhJ3RHuZTchHDNdMzxb+emK1qjZU=; b=Y714Z0iWc699tDtSFS0n8tWPAEUdFN9iuwpRuPilLyVklP2qctqzllq9YknB/8teH6 NKoICUJRC80cVQQmC/DNO3ByOXGHwSB2Bsr1gb85kzR1+I2BA0L+tXyIZ7RbRwW39nwg 0WnDhbHUS0fomkT8U2a3NICL5rdzd5qQ2XNffgc7UV955IonTtmRrXg23d2UH44x4858 SnI3qYDLXWsMG1SKQChpFkFpbiA97RPykAuiMPDV1dTHi41lzqJ/sNkp6w6lb7Gqw1ur lBOyXOLoyQSAD37FAPuGzcF2caxbfay256PgHrZe+CxUvy/T8itIph/vbE9MU9Jv6SVV 7A6w== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUSCTT3+gjvPkhhHWh7iYvCBbO5i+xYSjo6QjR6gX6LTw4h1oE3 9JO/uFU363KOezcAy1xx/i/WfaZt1ZBxjl3fsto= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy74b2i6CwUOu9czFueiAUx22W43F5hJbBrPrIRglj6aCC7/UEoJ62qdutTKBPNKYqpa4SKvk81DlzlUNacoKQ= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:d88f:: with SMTP id b15mr10005541plz.251.1569678605040; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 06:50:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <874l2az3r3.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <5d8f820c-4029-45cf-8fd7-b1fc44f8e6e3@default> <5e1c6ad4-5c01-4989-bbcf-7e398ba9ede6@default> <4496bd9e-58ee-45b5-967d-3402ce4999bd@default> In-Reply-To: From: Stefan Kangas Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 15:49:53 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#20697: 25.0.50; Mention `M-x report-emacs-bug' on splash screen To: Drew Adams Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="000000000000aa660605939d4786" X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20697 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 20697@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) --000000000000aa660605939d4786 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Stefan Kangas writes: > I'm not too enthusiastic about option 1, but I've re-attached my patch > which tries to do 2. (They are not mutually exclusive.) Sent it too fast. I've fixed a typo in the attached patch. --000000000000aa660605939d4786 Content-Type: text/x-patch; charset="US-ASCII"; name="0001-Document-feature-requests-in-the-Emacs-manual.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-Document-feature-requests-in-the-Emacs-manual.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: X-Attachment-Id: f_k13m3qq60 RnJvbSAyYzJlZDBlOTI5Y2FmNTBkMDJjODkwMjkzYTk0ZGE1ODYzY2Y4MzhiIE1vbiBTZXAgMTcg MDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBTdGVmYW4gS2FuZ2FzIDxzdGVmYW5rYW5nYXNAZ21haWwuY29t PgpEYXRlOiBTYXQsIDE0IFNlcCAyMDE5IDEzOjI3OjEwICswMjAwClN1YmplY3Q6IFtQQVRDSF0g RG9jdW1lbnQgZmVhdHVyZSByZXF1ZXN0cyBpbiB0aGUgRW1hY3MgbWFudWFsCgoqIGRvYy9lbWFj cy90cm91YmxlLnRleGkgKENvbnRyaWJ1dGluZyk6IERvY3VtZW50IGZlYXR1cmUKcmVxdWVzdHMu ICAoQnVnMjA2OTcpCi0tLQogZG9jL2VtYWNzL3Ryb3VibGUudGV4aSB8IDEzICsrKysrKysrKysr KysKIDEgZmlsZSBjaGFuZ2VkLCAxMyBpbnNlcnRpb25zKCspCgpkaWZmIC0tZ2l0IGEvZG9jL2Vt YWNzL3Ryb3VibGUudGV4aSBiL2RvYy9lbWFjcy90cm91YmxlLnRleGkKaW5kZXggMTNkM2U4NDc1 Yy4uMzgwNWNmMTRhZSAxMDA2NDQKLS0tIGEvZG9jL2VtYWNzL3Ryb3VibGUudGV4aQorKysgYi9k b2MvZW1hY3MvdHJvdWJsZS50ZXhpCkBAIC0xMjk5LDYgKzEyOTksMTkgQEAgQ29udHJpYnV0aW5n CiBAZW5kIGlmaHRtbAogWW91IGNhbiBhc2sgZm9yIHN1Z2dlc3RlZCBwcm9qZWN0cyBvciBzdWdn ZXN0IHlvdXIgb3duIGlkZWFzLgogCitJZiB5b3UgaGF2ZSBhIGZlYXR1cmUgcmVxdWVzdCBvciBh IHN1Z2dlc3Rpb24gZm9yIGhvdyB0byBpbXByb3ZlCitFbWFjcywgdGhlIGJlc3QgcGxhY2UgdG8g c2VuZCBpdCBpcyB0bworQGlmbm90aHRtbAorQGVtYWlse2J1Zy1nbnUtZW1hY3NAQGdudS5vcmd9 CitAZW5kIGlmbm90aHRtbAorQGlmaHRtbAorQHVybHtodHRwczovL2xpc3RzLmdudS5vcmcvbWFp bG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9idWctZ251LWVtYWNzLCBidWctZ251LWVtYWNzfQorQGVuZCBpZmh0bWwK Ky4gIFBsZWFzZSBleHBsYWluIGluIGNsZWFyIGxhbmd1YWdlIGV4YWN0bHkgd2hhdCBjaGFuZ2Ug eW91IHdvdWxkIGxpa2UKK3RvIHNlZSwgYW5kIHdoeSBhbmQgaG93IHlvdSB0aGluayBpdCB3b3Vs ZCBpbXByb3ZlIEVtYWNzLiAgSWYgeW91cgorc3VnZ2VzdGlvbiBpcyBhY2NlcHRlZCwgdGhpcyB3 aWxsIGluY3JlYXNlIGl0cyBjaGFuY2VzIG9mIGF0dHJhY3RpbmcKK2ludGVyZXN0IGZyb20gb25l IG9mIG1hbnkgdm9sdW50ZWVyIEVtYWNzIGRldmVsb3BlcnMuCisKIElmIHlvdSBoYXZlIGFscmVh ZHkgd3JpdHRlbiBhbiBpbXByb3ZlbWVudCwgcGxlYXNlIHRlbGwgdXMgYWJvdXQgaXQuICBJZgog eW91IGhhdmUgbm90IHlldCBzdGFydGVkIHdvcmssIGl0IGlzIHVzZWZ1bCB0byBjb250YWN0CiBA aWZub3RodG1sCi0tIAoyLjIwLjEKCg== --000000000000aa660605939d4786-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 28 20:42:23 2019 Received: (at 20697) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2019 00:42:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51628 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iENI7-0004zu-I2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 20:42:23 -0400 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:39000) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iENI5-0004zc-5c for 20697@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 20:42:21 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x8T0etLN142097; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 00:42:15 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2019-08-05; bh=QuPdfzgK/V+QuZtdzPzkU9HNElKcuC5Np6i+b/+7bi0=; b=HYfdlrBHtW2guERiO3wBmYVl5cSW/S5ul2QFDZiEW4yHg5BXI5ui5LEgYAr5cjk1iHgM WI9ntP7ibutzE8y5EBBu9Q4fl43BAXwJzJSd958FXiqsLur4/TuVkRzbA6t9L3M6oUCW Whi+dG0yPh/qYGRGryysk8J5pN5Snl9UKVIklJdYDKqrBKF/OTf9HtotZK9Oyr/v3ikQ bzukdV/QXFkzeS9JWbpRKlXFoicAjouZdt60snGw5iuVzOg1ohY/HnwlDXYHMQFRUjSW E4Jdciml2QBj23/sqoKGfDoWt/aiNkRSU6knwsfTUadAMNIu8AAJqfzcyXQSrz7VkbIh FA== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2v9yfpstdd-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 29 Sep 2019 00:42:14 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x8T0cmar047347; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 00:42:14 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2vah1fhmfk-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 29 Sep 2019 00:42:14 +0000 Received: from abhmp0003.oracle.com (abhmp0003.oracle.com [141.146.116.9]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x8T0gBld007401; Sun, 29 Sep 2019 00:42:12 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 17:42:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Stefan Kangas Subject: RE: bug#20697: 25.0.50; Mention `M-x report-emacs-bug' on splash screen References: <874l2az3r3.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <5d8f820c-4029-45cf-8fd7-b1fc44f8e6e3@default> <5e1c6ad4-5c01-4989-bbcf-7e398ba9ede6@default> <4496bd9e-58ee-45b5-967d-3402ce4999bd@default> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4900.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9394 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-1909290005 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9394 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-1909290005 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20697 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 20697@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > I largely agree with what you're saying; thanks for spelling it out. >=20 > I see two options to move forward here: >=20 > 1. Add a new item (or reformulate an old one) on the splash screen. > 2. Add something to the "Contributing" page about feature suggestions. >=20 > I'm not too enthusiastic about option 1, but I've re-attached my patch > which tries to do 2. (They are not mutually exclusive.) >=20 > Any other opinions, please? Thanks for reconsidering, and for working on this. Wrt #1 & #2: Neither is perfect: #1: People breeze past the splash screen. (But see below.) #2: A user needs to have somehow found node (emacs) `Contributing'. Not obvious for a newbie (but see below). Wrt your patch (#2): +1 in favor of it. You might want to say "attracting interest from=20 volunteer Emacs developers", instead of "from one of many" (why one?). Or maybe - why mention two separate hurdles: getting your suggestion "accepted" and getting someone to work on it? Consider just removing that whole sentence, keeping only the first one, which invites suggestions that are clear and that provide a "why". Wrt #1: People might not notice a mention on the splash screen, and even if they do they might not have a clue how to show it again, apart from restarting Emacs. But they might well look into the `Help' menu. The `Help' menu is the most likely place a new user will look for info about how to contribute or contact Emacs developers. Even if they know nothing about Info or how to get to the splash screen, they will find the `Help' menu. On the `Help' menu we have `How to Report a Bug' and `Send Bug Report...'. That's 2 menu items to help users report bugs. The `Help' menu also has an `About Emacs' item that, lo and behold, displays the splash screen, with its link to node `Contributing'. So for both contributing and reporting bugs the `Help' menu is pretty good. Consider one or both of these possibilities, in addition to adding your suggested text to node `Contributing': * Change `Help' > `Send Bug Report' to `Help' > `Report Bug or Suggestion' * Add a `Report Bug or Suggestion' link to the splash screen The menu item `Send Bug Report' invokes `send-emacs-bug-report'. But that's the same command you use to send an enhancement request. It would help if the menu item expressed that. (It would even help if the command name did so.) --- BTW, I don't know why the _first_ of the list of links on the splash page is `Authors'. I'd suggest moving it later or (better, I think) just removing it. It would be good to have `Contributing' as the first link of the list. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 15 21:06:40 2020 Received: (at 20697) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jan 2020 02:06:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36560 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iruYR-0002xH-SV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 15 Jan 2020 21:06:40 -0500 Received: from ted.gofardesign.uk ([67.225.143.91]:41602) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iruYQ-0002x4-Di for 20697@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 15 Jan 2020 21:06:38 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=marxist.se; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=PqShFLjrsod7zMdXKO7D9oU6vYRQCLljyDT9bflEAeE=; b=joDwyjUl5QxV9VicDC0rwsbVAN i24rf91V+WyfzMocVx2iHuCDEsEaa4Q04lKp7+0HjGUHEIqDUzgYwFa+sMEjBa1DpeNqDMrFP0Nc2 59mqBGq1PO3vxhG6P3AJ38ZPoktVM3BFG83WYE0n23Idb41F4VG9xIAU37Iv7Q6PwcQstChZz9E06 RgYHStWdxHRHrmJJRFO8/wMVM1CRSmvjCQchB61xFguU630/Sl6jCVg+Gr8Scm56djc61nh9hUB+q QVDv/eQdxGytN/Rtx1agLHFVM6og55eSOffT0/Q815J4yE00rdO0rlLszkCskloGtTDSzrl3RzJzU W+QpwmYw==; Received: from h-70-69.a785.priv.bahnhof.se ([155.4.70.69]:34372 helo=localhost) by ted.gofardesign.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1iruYK-001GwB-BS; Wed, 15 Jan 2020 21:06:32 -0500 From: Stefan Kangas To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#20697: 25.0.50; Mention `M-x report-emacs-bug' on splash screen In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Sat, 28 Sep 2019 15:44:58 +0200") References: <874l2az3r3.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <5d8f820c-4029-45cf-8fd7-b1fc44f8e6e3@default> <5e1c6ad4-5c01-4989-bbcf-7e398ba9ede6@default> <4496bd9e-58ee-45b5-967d-3402ce4999bd@default> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 03:06:30 +0100 Message-ID: <87a76oyx21.fsf@marxist.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ted.gofardesign.uk X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - marxist.se X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: ted.gofardesign.uk: authenticated_id: stefan@marxist.se X-Authenticated-Sender: ted.gofardesign.uk: stefan@marxist.se X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20697 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 20697@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Stefan Kangas writes: > I see two options to move forward here: > > 1. Add a new item (or reformulate an old one) on the splash screen. > 2. Add something to the "Contributing" page about feature suggestions. > > I'm not too enthusiastic about option 1, but I've re-attached my patch > which tries to do 2. (They are not mutually exclusive.) > > Any other opinions, please? No one besides me and Drew has commented so far, and we both seem to be in favour of the above patch. Drew had some suggestions for improvements which I've incorporated into the below patch. I also took the time to just make it much shorter and simpler (down to two sentences now). Are there any objections to pushing this patch to the release branch? Best regards, Stefan Kangas --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-diff Content-Disposition: inline; filename=0001-Document-feature-requests-in-the-Emacs-manual.patch >From 0fdbf284a97f31147c8d081536d6b57784d93a5b Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Stefan Kangas Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2019 13:27:10 +0200 Subject: [PATCH] Document feature requests in the Emacs manual * doc/emacs/trouble.texi (Contributing): Document how to send feature requests. (Bug20697) --- doc/emacs/trouble.texi | 11 +++++++++++ 1 file changed, 11 insertions(+) diff --git a/doc/emacs/trouble.texi b/doc/emacs/trouble.texi index 9cbcf20610..33f67f2b44 100644 --- a/doc/emacs/trouble.texi +++ b/doc/emacs/trouble.texi @@ -1299,6 +1299,17 @@ Contributing @end ifhtml You can ask for suggested projects or suggest your own ideas. +If you have a feature request or a suggestion for how to improve +Emacs, the best place to send it is to +@ifnothtml +@email{bug-gnu-emacs@@gnu.org} +@end ifnothtml +@ifhtml +@url{https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-gnu-emacs, bug-gnu-emacs} +@end ifhtml +. Please explain as clearly as possible what change you would like to +see, and why and how you think it would improve Emacs. + If you have already written an improvement, please tell us about it. If you have not yet started work, it is useful to contact @ifnothtml -- 2.20.1 --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 16 09:49:37 2020 Received: (at 20697) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jan 2020 14:49:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37004 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1is6Sj-00077X-Pr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 09:49:37 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:46211) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1is6Sf-000774-29 for 20697@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 09:49:32 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:57353) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1is6SZ-0001ON-LC; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 09:49:23 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1929 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1is6SZ-0002wI-2X; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 09:49:23 -0500 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 16:49:40 +0200 Message-Id: <83wo9r318b.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-reply-to: <87a76oyx21.fsf@marxist.se> (message from Stefan Kangas on Thu, 16 Jan 2020 03:06:30 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#20697: 25.0.50; Mention `M-x report-emacs-bug' on splash screen References: <874l2az3r3.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <5d8f820c-4029-45cf-8fd7-b1fc44f8e6e3@default> <5e1c6ad4-5c01-4989-bbcf-7e398ba9ede6@default> <4496bd9e-58ee-45b5-967d-3402ce4999bd@default> <87a76oyx21.fsf@marxist.se> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20697 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, 20697@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 03:06:30 +0100 > Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 20697@debbugs.gnu.org > > > I see two options to move forward here: > > > > 1. Add a new item (or reformulate an old one) on the splash screen. > > 2. Add something to the "Contributing" page about feature suggestions. > > > > I'm not too enthusiastic about option 1, but I've re-attached my patch > > which tries to do 2. (They are not mutually exclusive.) > > > > Any other opinions, please? > > No one besides me and Drew has commented so far, and we both seem to > be in favour of the above patch. Drew had some suggestions for > improvements which I've incorporated into the below patch. I also > took the time to just make it much shorter and simpler (down to two > sentences now). > > Are there any objections to pushing this patch to the release branch? I'm confused: what is "the above patch", and how is it different from the change in trouble.texi you posted now? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 16 09:55:34 2020 Received: (at 20697) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jan 2020 14:55:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38227 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1is6YU-0007aJ-B4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 09:55:33 -0500 Received: from ted.gofardesign.uk ([67.225.143.91]:52308) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1is6YO-0007Qj-Ln for 20697@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 09:55:28 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=marxist.se; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=wPOVx52PJh/PNQExmbwY+LXe1LgpL7BryE2rDGuO7Uk=; b=CyAlcyIfRw0/x4x0uaKXAAk/pe qKlwqfDIdSs5Hpp1vvBSIJTVun7bqi7B1BSoA43zJHlYLtigy+nU4OZBmkCGF+nOKJQEDLOXTtcne Q2W37zoJMHrenkx9sS6a4TGKxLipDr1h3VdJmpblXTX5uAlRRIpnHB0GnNOQ2YAD8HWE70ObrAc1+ QSRpOcD4lfoodiyNoEFuskWNnIX0zoTirFKtn+7nKMcaUe1BeRkTAROsQH6/TjTi0jHNUkmlw9/uQ io4/DDMI31Ze3Eqy+pQ5zD/hjgrH1l5wovF7egRaaxlKI3LH5Ej3uRfU9H8Trt4pXhtF6lb3hCVWJ tFoYDXkQ==; Received: from h-70-69.a785.priv.bahnhof.se ([155.4.70.69]:55820 helo=localhost) by ted.gofardesign.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1is6YH-000U8Q-U7; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 09:55:18 -0500 From: Stefan Kangas To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#20697: 25.0.50; Mention `M-x report-emacs-bug' on splash screen In-Reply-To: <83wo9r318b.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 16 Jan 2020 16:49:40 +0200") References: <874l2az3r3.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <5d8f820c-4029-45cf-8fd7-b1fc44f8e6e3@default> <5e1c6ad4-5c01-4989-bbcf-7e398ba9ede6@default> <4496bd9e-58ee-45b5-967d-3402ce4999bd@default> <87a76oyx21.fsf@marxist.se> <83wo9r318b.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 15:55:16 +0100 Message-ID: <87o8v3v4bv.fsf@marxist.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ted.gofardesign.uk X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - marxist.se X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: ted.gofardesign.uk: authenticated_id: stefan@marxist.se X-Authenticated-Sender: ted.gofardesign.uk: stefan@marxist.se X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20697 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, 20697@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Are there any objections to pushing this patch to the release branch? > > I'm confused: what is "the above patch", and how is it different from > the change in trouble.texi you posted now? Sorry, I was being unclear. The patch in question is the one attached to the message you were replying too, with the change to trouble.texi. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 16 10:15:58 2020 Received: (at 20697) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jan 2020 15:15:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38252 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1is6sI-00085e-2M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 10:15:58 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:51109) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1is6sG-00085S-GH for 20697@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 10:15:56 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:57994) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1is6sA-0002q5-RO; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 10:15:50 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3582 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1is6sA-0007YJ-31; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 10:15:50 -0500 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 17:16:07 +0200 Message-Id: <83pnfj3008.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-reply-to: <87o8v3v4bv.fsf@marxist.se> (message from Stefan Kangas on Thu, 16 Jan 2020 15:55:16 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#20697: 25.0.50; Mention `M-x report-emacs-bug' on splash screen References: <874l2az3r3.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <5d8f820c-4029-45cf-8fd7-b1fc44f8e6e3@default> <5e1c6ad4-5c01-4989-bbcf-7e398ba9ede6@default> <4496bd9e-58ee-45b5-967d-3402ce4999bd@default> <87a76oyx21.fsf@marxist.se> <83wo9r318b.fsf@gnu.org> <87o8v3v4bv.fsf@marxist.se> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20697 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, 20697@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Cc: larsi@gnus.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, 20697@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 15:55:16 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> Are there any objections to pushing this patch to the release branch? > > > > I'm confused: what is "the above patch", and how is it different from > > the change in trouble.texi you posted now? > > Sorry, I was being unclear. The patch in question is the one attached > to the message you were replying too, with the change to trouble.texi. Then the patch is fine with me, thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 16 15:36:52 2020 Received: (at 20697-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jan 2020 20:36:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38413 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1isBsq-0007X4-KJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 15:36:52 -0500 Received: from ted.gofardesign.uk ([67.225.143.91]:52458) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1isBsp-0007Ws-79 for 20697-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 15:36:51 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=marxist.se; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=ZUnDOGiKb9+6noCg4ttGugRsUygoLRL9GaQuudZ/oL8=; b=hQHdE10WN7I8fpTmbcgnD8gx+N eL57XJEaampzi1e0tWIzpmHeeuT2gEa6x5YXy954P86tXiiccQOEvlPshOrw7JnubotISQzY6oBA8 2BwiXYg2IDcrmA2eCquuS0kVQ+TMM71nsDvdKa4CTivWgdh1solXywxUcmxrhpmspjq6/Rqftu43E X4YV3lbSgEpgMpUpf1nlDPHtBWBgnuhdsuQvDLAThdiOEFGMXOTOQ6owUTSEkylfEe6iy9M8CBtLO 2xNbFMV25l2ewDkbJu7QFkOB2+pQWMxqpRoUnvTbMm1Rf+E2jVyfaSPWiB/WOPlOirakkuG3LK0Ep MH0tNMyg==; Received: from h-70-69.a785.priv.bahnhof.se ([155.4.70.69]:53558 helo=localhost) by ted.gofardesign.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1isBsj-001fNn-Dr; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 15:36:45 -0500 From: Stefan Kangas To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#20697: 25.0.50; Mention `M-x report-emacs-bug' on splash screen In-Reply-To: <83pnfj3008.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 16 Jan 2020 17:16:07 +0200") References: <874l2az3r3.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <5d8f820c-4029-45cf-8fd7-b1fc44f8e6e3@default> <5e1c6ad4-5c01-4989-bbcf-7e398ba9ede6@default> <4496bd9e-58ee-45b5-967d-3402ce4999bd@default> <87a76oyx21.fsf@marxist.se> <83wo9r318b.fsf@gnu.org> <87o8v3v4bv.fsf@marxist.se> <83pnfj3008.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 21:36:43 +0100 Message-ID: <874kwv3zqc.fsf@marxist.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ted.gofardesign.uk X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - marxist.se X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: ted.gofardesign.uk: authenticated_id: stefan@marxist.se X-Authenticated-Sender: ted.gofardesign.uk: stefan@marxist.se X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20697-done Cc: 20697-done@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > Then the patch is fine with me, thanks. Thanks. Pushed to emacs-27 as 778923afe5. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From unknown Mon Jun 23 04:09:27 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 12:24:10 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator