From unknown Sat Aug 09 09:32:21 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#2058 <2058@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#2058 <2058@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 23.0.60; bewildering behavior when visit new file throw.pdf Reply-To: bug#2058 <2058@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2025 16:32:21 +0000 retitle 2058 23.0.60; bewildering behavior when visit new file throw.pdf reassign 2058 emacs submitter 2058 "Drew Adams" severity 2058 normal thanks From drew.adams@oracle.com Sun Jan 25 15:09:14 2009 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 25 Jan 2009 23:09:15 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.5 required=4.0 tests=PDFNAME autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0PN9B1D016294 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 15:09:12 -0800 Received: from mail.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:44354 helo=mx10.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1LRE4l-0007Mi-GN for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:07:35 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LRE6H-0004Pa-Bs for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:09:10 -0500 Received: from rcsinet11.oracle.com ([148.87.113.123]:52842 helo=rgminet11.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LRE6G-0004PU-Vb for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:09:09 -0500 Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rgminet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n0PNB08P019500 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 23:11:01 GMT Received: from acsmt701.oracle.com (acsmt701.oracle.com [141.146.40.71]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n0PN93gw009254 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 23:09:05 GMT Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.5.128.33) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 23:09:00 +0000 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 23.0.60; bewildering behavior when visit new file throw.pdf Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 15:09:19 -0800 Message-ID: <004c01c97f41$f45cbd10$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acl/QfPS4if/7X86QtCe+0WHfmAing== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Source-IP: acsmt701.oracle.com [141.146.40.71] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090209.497CF10E.01D4:SCFSTAT928724,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) emacs -Q I did C-x C-f throw.pdf, with no existing file throw.pdf. The ensuing messages and interaction were bewildering. An extremely long message appeared in the echo area: "No image (png) support available or some conversion utility for pdf files is missing. Type C-c C-c to switch to an editing mode or C-c C-t to open a buffer showing the doc as text." But the new, empty file throw.pdf appeared to be visited with no problem. I tried to type into it. That threw me back to the previous buffer I had been in (Dired), and crazy error msgs were displayed. I tried again, and this time I tried to type `C-c C-t', since the message indicated that that would open the buffer as text. That too led to errors. I don't know exactly what happened, but you will, as soon as you try it. ;-) This is the *Messages* buffer: -----------8<-------------------- For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a. (New file) Wrote c:/DOCUME~1/dradams/LOCALS~1/Temp/docview19729/throw.pdf No image (png) support available or some conversion utility for pdf files is missing. Type C-c C-c to switch to an editing mode or C-c C-t to open a buffer showing the doc as text. Error during redisplay: (wrong-type-argument numberp nil) [2 times] Quit [3 times] (New file) Wrote c:/DOCUME~1/dradams/LOCALS~1/Temp/docview19729/throw.pdf No image (png) support available or some conversion utility for pdf files is missing. Type C-c C-c to switch to an editing mode or C-c C-t to open a buffer showing the doc as text. Error during redisplay: (wrong-type-argument numberp nil) [5 times] Quit [3 times] (New file) Wrote c:/DOCUME~1/dradams/LOCALS~1/Temp/docview19729/throw.pdf No image (png) support available or some conversion utility for pdf files is missing. Type C-c C-c to switch to an editing mode or C-c C-t to open a buffer showing the doc as text. Error during redisplay: (wrong-type-argument numberp nil) [4 times] DocView: process pdf->txt changed status to exited abnormally with code 1 . Error during redisplay: (wrong-type-argument numberp nil) [5 times] QuitError during redisplay: (wrong-type-argument numberp nil) [2 times] Error during redisplay: (wrong-type-argument numberp nil) [5 times] -----------8<-------------------- [Note too that it shows that a temporary file was written.] In GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2009-01-04 on LENNART-69DE564 Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (3.4) --no-opt --cflags -Ic:/g/include -fno-crossjumping' From tassilo@member.fsf.org Tue Jan 27 01:55:48 2009 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 27 Jan 2009 09:55:48 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.5 required=4.0 tests=HAS_BUG_NUMBER,PDFNAME autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0R9tj4H029321 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 01:55:46 -0800 Received: from mail.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:42398 helo=mx10.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1LRkdz-0001Pn-2C for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 04:54:07 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LRkfX-0001dQ-6T for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 04:55:44 -0500 Received: from deliver.uni-koblenz.de ([141.26.64.15]:18462) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LRkfW-0001dM-SR for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 04:55:43 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deliver.uni-koblenz.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47A4C789AACC; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 10:55:42 +0100 (CET) Received: from deliver.uni-koblenz.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (deliver.uni-koblenz.de [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11319-08; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 10:55:41 +0100 (CET) X-CHKRCPT: Envelopesender vrfy tassilo@member.fsf.org Received: from thinkpad.tsdh.de (dhcp190.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.71.190]) by deliver.uni-koblenz.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 258B17893C8B; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 10:55:41 +0100 (CET) From: Tassilo Horn To: Drew Adams Cc: 2058@debbugs.gnu.org, Subject: Re: bug#2058: 23.0.60; bewildering behavior when visit new file throw.pdf References: Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 10:55:40 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 25 Jan 2009 15:09:19 -0800") Message-ID: <87tz7lt6n7.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at uni-koblenz.de X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) "Drew Adams" writes: Hi Drew, > emacs -Q > > I did C-x C-f throw.pdf, with no existing file throw.pdf. The ensuing > messages and interaction were bewildering. Is that really a use-case? > An extremely long message appeared in the echo area: > "No image (png) support available or some conversion utility for pdf > files is missing. Type C-c C-c to switch to an editing mode or C-c > C-t to open a buffer showing the doc as text." > > But the new, empty file throw.pdf appeared to be visited with no > problem. I tried to type into it. That threw me back to the previous > buffer I had been in (Dired), and crazy error msgs were displayed. The buffer was in doc-view-mode which has its own keymap, and most probably you've hit k or q, which kills/buries the buffer. > I tried again, and this time I tried to type `C-c C-t', since the > message indicated that that would open the buffer as text. That too > led to errors. Yeah, in the background it tries to run pdftotext on the pdf, to extract the plain text contents. > I don't know exactly what happened, but you will, as soon as you try > it. ;-) Sure. So what's your advice how to handle this situation? Check if the file is existent (and non-empty) and if not, print a message and fallback to fundamental mode? Bye, Tassilo From acm@muc.de Tue Jan 27 03:43:56 2009 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 27 Jan 2009 11:43:56 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.5 required=4.0 tests=HAS_BUG_NUMBER,PDFNAME autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0RBho7r024009 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 03:43:51 -0800 Received: from mx10.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:46014) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1LRmKa-0003Dg-9d for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 06:42:12 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LRmM6-0003gz-6K for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 06:43:47 -0500 Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:4119 helo=mail.muc.de) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LRmM5-0003gp-Gr for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 06:43:45 -0500 Received: (qmail 35343 invoked by uid 3782); 27 Jan 2009 11:43:43 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (pD9E525D8.dip.t-dialin.net [217.229.37.216]) by colin2.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:43:41 +0100 Received: (qmail 4998 invoked by uid 1000); 27 Jan 2009 12:02:36 -0000 Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:02:36 +0000 To: Tassilo Horn , 2058@debbugs.gnu.org Cc: Drew Adams , emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#2058: 23.0.60; bewildering behavior when visit new file throw.pdf Message-ID: <20090127120236.GB2116@muc.de> References: <87tz7lt6n7.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <87tz7lt6n7.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.5 (Fettercairn) From: Alan Mackenzie X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: FreeBSD 4.6-4.9 Hi, Tassilo, On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 10:55:40AM +0100, Tassilo Horn wrote: > "Drew Adams" writes: > Hi Drew, > > emacs -Q > > I did C-x C-f throw.pdf, with no existing file throw.pdf. The ensuing > > messages and interaction were bewildering. > Is that really a use-case? No, it's an error case. The user wanted to visit throw.ldf, which is a text based document format used only in his own company. But he mistyped it. He also knows nothing about png images, and really doesn't want to have to learn. > > An extremely long message appeared in the echo area: > > "No image (png) support available or some conversion utility for pdf > > files is missing. Type C-c C-c to switch to an editing mode or C-c > > C-t to open a buffer showing the doc as text." It's particularly long and confusing for a non-existent document. Emacs shouldn't alarm users. > > But the new, empty file throw.pdf appeared to be visited with no > > problem. I tried to type into it. That threw me back to the previous > > buffer I had been in (Dired), and crazy error msgs were displayed. > The buffer was in doc-view-mode which has its own keymap, and most > probably you've hit k or q, which kills/buries the buffer. What on earth is doc-view-mode? Hmm. C-h f doc-view-mode . ;-( > > I tried again, and this time I tried to type `C-c C-t', since the > > message indicated that that would open the buffer as text. That too > > led to errors. > Yeah, in the background it tries to run pdftotext on the pdf, to extract > the plain text contents. > > I don't know exactly what happened, but you will, as soon as you try > > it. ;-) > Sure. So what's your advice how to handle this situation? Check if the > file is existent (and non-empty) and if not, print a message and > fallback to fundamental mode? Whatever is done, don't force the poor bewildered user to make a decision. Perform whatever error handling is appropriate and display a message, and let her get out without further ado. "... to switch to an editing mode " is particularly bad. It should be less vague, stating the mode (text mode?). "... to open a buffer showing the doc as text" would be better as "to show the doc as text". > Bye, > Tassilo -- Alan Mackenzie (Nürnberg, Germany). From tassilo@member.fsf.org Tue Jan 27 04:43:58 2009 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 27 Jan 2009 12:43:58 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.5 required=4.0 tests=HAS_BUG_NUMBER,PDFNAME autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0RChtU7007078 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 04:43:56 -0800 Received: from mail.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:49245 helo=mx10.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1LRnGi-0003xl-TI for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 07:42:16 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LRnIH-000371-M4 for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 07:43:54 -0500 Received: from out2.smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.26]:39225) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LRnIH-00036v-Cs for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 07:43:53 -0500 Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.internal [10.202.2.41]) by out1.fastmail.fm (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84ABA25BABA; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 07:43:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from heartbeat2.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.161]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 27 Jan 2009 07:43:51 -0500 X-Sasl-enc: blrxrICtJogatluxWSfIKyOHa/aQp8HQlrEdfcXEkpVr 1233060231 Received: from thinkpad.tsdh.de (kobz-590f9e88.pool.einsundeins.de [89.15.158.136]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id C543530F2E; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 07:43:49 -0500 (EST) From: Tassilo Horn To: Alan Mackenzie Cc: 2058@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams , emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#2058: 23.0.60; bewildering behavior when visit new file throw.pdf References: <87tz7lt6n7.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> <20090127120236.GB2116@muc.de> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:43:46 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20090127120236.GB2116@muc.de> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:02:36 +0000") Message-ID: <87ab9ckjgd.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. Alan Mackenzie writes: Hi Alan, >> > I did C-x C-f throw.pdf, with no existing file throw.pdf. The >> > ensuing messages and interaction were bewildering. > >> Is that really a use-case? > > No, it's an error case. The user wanted to visit throw.ldf, which is > a text based document format used only in his own company. But he > mistyped it. He also knows nothing about png images, and really > doesn't want to have to learn. But how should I know that. The best I can do is to handle non-existing and empty files. >> > But the new, empty file throw.pdf appeared to be visited with no >> > problem. I tried to type into it. That threw me back to the previous >> > buffer I had been in (Dired), and crazy error msgs were displayed. > >> The buffer was in doc-view-mode which has its own keymap, and most >> probably you've hit k or q, which kills/buries the buffer. > > What on earth is doc-view-mode? Hmm. C-h f doc-view-mode . ;-( Emacs 23. >> Sure. So what's your advice how to handle this situation? Check if >> the file is existent (and non-empty) and if not, print a message and >> fallback to fundamental mode? > > Whatever is done, don't force the poor bewildered user to make a > decision. Perform whatever error handling is appropriate and display > a message, and let her get out without further ado. The message is no problem, but what to do with the open request. Open the (presumably) mistyped file in fundamental-mode? > "... to switch to an editing mode " is particularly bad. It should be > less vague, stating the mode (text mode?). Well, it's ps-mode for PostScript files and fundamental-mode for PDF and DVI files. Making that explicit would enlarge the message even more... > "... to open a buffer showing the doc as text" would be better as "to > show the doc as text". Will be fixed as soon as I come to it. Bye, Tassilo From acm@muc.de Tue Jan 27 06:23:36 2009 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 27 Jan 2009 14:23:36 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.5 required=4.0 tests=HAS_BUG_NUMBER,PDFNAME autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0RENXoF000723 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 06:23:34 -0800 Received: from mx10.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:55704) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1LRop8-00081E-Mv for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:21:54 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LRoqf-00075C-UN for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:23:32 -0500 Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:1495 helo=mail.muc.de) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LRoqf-00074k-BP for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:23:29 -0500 Received: (qmail 76951 invoked by uid 3782); 27 Jan 2009 14:23:26 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (pD9E525D8.dip.t-dialin.net [217.229.37.216]) by colin2.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:23:24 +0100 Received: (qmail 7168 invoked by uid 1000); 27 Jan 2009 14:42:20 -0000 Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 14:42:20 +0000 To: Tassilo Horn Cc: 2058@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams , emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#2058: 23.0.60; bewildering behavior when visit new file throw.pdf Message-ID: <20090127144220.GA6134@muc.de> References: <87tz7lt6n7.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> <20090127120236.GB2116@muc.de> <87ab9ckjgd.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <87ab9ckjgd.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.5 (Fettercairn) From: Alan Mackenzie X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: FreeBSD 4.6-4.9 Hi, Tassilo, On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 01:43:46PM +0100, Tassilo Horn wrote: > Alan Mackenzie writes: > Hi Alan, > >> > I did C-x C-f throw.pdf, with no existing file throw.pdf. The > >> > ensuing messages and interaction were bewildering. > >> Is that really a use-case? > > No, it's an error case. The user wanted to visit throw.ldf, which is > > a text based document format used only in his own company. But he > > mistyped it. He also knows nothing about png images, and really > > doesn't want to have to learn. > But how should I know that. The best I can do is to handle non-existing > and empty files. Does an empty/non-existent file have any meaning in this mode? Is doc-view-mode an editing mode as well as a viewing mode? > >> > But the new, empty file throw.pdf appeared to be visited with no > >> > problem. I tried to type into it. That threw me back to the previous > >> > buffer I had been in (Dired), and crazy error msgs were displayed. > >> The buffer was in doc-view-mode which has its own keymap, and most > >> probably you've hit k or q, which kills/buries the buffer. > > What on earth is doc-view-mode? Hmm. C-h f doc-view-mode . ;-( > Emacs 23. Yes, I know. :-) I was looking at the doc string in doc-view.el from 2009-01-05. Here's the output from that C-h f: doc-view-mode is an interactive autoloaded Lisp function in `doc-view.el'. (doc-view-mode) Major mode in DocView buffers. You can use Uses keymap "doc-view-mode-map", which is not currently defined. M-x doc-view-toggle-display to toggle between displaying the document or editing it as text. Uses keymap "doc-view-mode-map", which is not currently defined. It doesn't work well before the `doc-view-mode-map' keymap is loaded. But mainly, it doesn't say at all what doc-view-mode is for. Could you maybe put something about the mode's purpose into the doc string? Possibly this comment from doc-view.el: ;; DocView is a document viewer for Emacs. It converts PDF, PS and DVI files ;; to a set of PNG files, one PNG for each page, and displays the PNG images ;; inside an Emacs buffer. This buffer uses `doc-view-mode' which provides ;; convenient key bindings for browsing the document. , or more succinctly: Doc View Mode is an Emacs document viewer. It displays PDF, PS and DVI files (as PNG images) in Emacs buffers. > >> Sure. So what's your advice how to handle this situation? Check if > >> the file is existent (and non-empty) and if not, print a message and > >> fallback to fundamental mode? > > Whatever is done, don't force the poor bewildered user to make a > > decision. Perform whatever error handling is appropriate and display > > a message, and let her get out without further ado. > The message is no problem, but what to do with the open request. Open > the (presumably) mistyped file in fundamental-mode? That's more or less what the .gzip mode (can't remember it's exact name) does - it displays the raw unintelligible file. > > "... to switch to an editing mode " is particularly bad. It should be > > less vague, stating the mode (text mode?). > Well, it's ps-mode for PostScript files and fundamental-mode for PDF and > DVI files. Making that explicit would enlarge the message even more... Er, "... to switch to ps-mode" and "... to switch to fundamental mode" are shorter. Surely you can determine the exact prompt at run time? > > "... to open a buffer showing the doc as text" would be better as "to > > show the doc as text". > Will be fixed as soon as I come to it. > Bye, > Tassilo Bis später! -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). From tassilo@member.fsf.org Tue Jan 27 06:47:14 2009 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 27 Jan 2009 14:47:14 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.5 required=4.0 tests=HAS_BUG_NUMBER,PDFNAME autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0REl8cl008033 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 06:47:09 -0800 Received: from mail.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:56617 helo=mx10.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1LRpBx-0008Dw-LB for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:45:29 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LRpDR-000267-PG for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:47:07 -0500 Received: from deliver.uni-koblenz.de ([141.26.64.15]:29918) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LRpDR-000260-9T for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:47:01 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deliver.uni-koblenz.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4211789B102; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:47:00 +0100 (CET) Received: from deliver.uni-koblenz.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (deliver.uni-koblenz.de [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05128-07; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:46:59 +0100 (CET) X-CHKRCPT: Envelopesender vrfy tassilo@member.fsf.org Received: from thinkpad.tsdh.de (dhcp37.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.71.37]) by deliver.uni-koblenz.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35E76789B033; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:46:59 +0100 (CET) From: Tassilo Horn To: Alan Mackenzie Cc: 2058@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams , emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#2058: 23.0.60; bewildering behavior when visit new file throw.pdf References: <87tz7lt6n7.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> <20090127120236.GB2116@muc.de> <87ab9ckjgd.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> <20090127144220.GA6134@muc.de> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:46:59 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20090127144220.GA6134@muc.de> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Tue, 27 Jan 2009 14:42:20 +0000") Message-ID: <871vuoajrw.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at uni-koblenz.de X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) Alan Mackenzie writes: Hi Alan, >> But how should I know that. The best I can do is to handle >> non-existing and empty files. > > Does an empty/non-existent file have any meaning in this mode? No, they'll break it as Drew pointed out. > Is doc-view-mode an editing mode as well as a viewing mode? Only viewing, although you can toggle between viewing in doc-view-mode and editing (fundamental-mode or ps-mode with doc-view-minor-mode) with C-c C-c. >> > What on earth is doc-view-mode? Hmm. C-h f doc-view-mode . ;-( > >> Emacs 23. > > Yes, I know. :-) I was looking at the doc string in doc-view.el from > 2009-01-05. Here's the output from that C-h f: > > doc-view-mode is an interactive autoloaded Lisp function in > `doc-view.el'. > > (doc-view-mode) > > Major mode in DocView buffers. > You can use > Uses keymap "doc-view-mode-map", which is not currently defined. > M-x doc-view-toggle-display to > toggle between displaying the document or editing it as text. > > Uses keymap "doc-view-mode-map", which is not currently defined. > > It doesn't work well before the `doc-view-mode-map' keymap is loaded. > But mainly, it doesn't say at all what doc-view-mode is for. Could you > maybe put something about the mode's purpose into the doc string? > Possibly this comment from doc-view.el: > > ;; DocView is a document viewer for Emacs. It converts PDF, PS and D= VI files > ;; to a set of PNG files, one PNG for each page, and displays the PNG= images > ;; inside an Emacs buffer. This buffer uses `doc-view-mode' which pr= ovides > ;; convenient key bindings for browsing the document. > > , or more succinctly: > > Doc View Mode is an Emacs document viewer. It displays PDF, PS and > DVI files (as PNG images) in Emacs buffers. Yes, I'll fix that. The current doc-string is really awful. ;-) >> >> Sure. So what's your advice how to handle this situation? Check if >> >> the file is existent (and non-empty) and if not, print a message and >> >> fallback to fundamental mode? > >> > Whatever is done, don't force the poor bewildered user to make a >> > decision. Perform whatever error handling is appropriate and display >> > a message, and let her get out without further ado. > >> The message is no problem, but what to do with the open request. Open >> the (presumably) mistyped file in fundamental-mode? > > That's more or less what the .gzip mode (can't remember it's exact name) > does - it displays the raw unintelligible file. Ok, I will make it so. >> > "... to switch to an editing mode " is particularly bad. It should be >> > less vague, stating the mode (text mode?). > >> Well, it's ps-mode for PostScript files and fundamental-mode for PDF and >> DVI files. Making that explicit would enlarge the message even more... > > Er, "... to switch to ps-mode" and "... to switch to fundamental mode" > are shorter. Surely you can determine the exact prompt at run time? Thanks for your confidence in me. But yes, it can be done easily. ;-) > Bis sp=E4ter! Jawollja! From drew.adams@oracle.com Tue Jan 27 07:44:35 2009 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 27 Jan 2009 15:44:35 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.6 required=4.0 tests=FOURLA,HAS_BUG_NUMBER,PDFNAME autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0RFiVnV022777 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 07:44:32 -0800 Received: from mx10.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:59148) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1LRq5V-0007Lu-11 for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 10:42:53 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LRq74-0002FT-73 for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 10:44:30 -0500 Received: from rcsinet11.oracle.com ([148.87.113.123]:58102 helo=rgminet11.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LRq73-0002FL-FE for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 10:44:29 -0500 Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rgminet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n0RFkGeT028361 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:46:17 GMT Received: from acsmt703.oracle.com (acsmt703.oracle.com [141.146.40.81]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n0RFiFFc002249; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:44:16 GMT Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.5.128.33) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:44:14 +0000 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Tassilo Horn'" Cc: <2058@debbugs.gnu.org>, References: <87tz7lt6n7.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> Subject: RE: bug#2058: 23.0.60; bewildering behavior when visit new file throw.pdf Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 07:44:14 -0800 Message-ID: <001d01c98096$1bb8b7b0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-reply-to: <87tz7lt6n7.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> Thread-Index: AcmAZXKh27AgVbfKRkaR0lV3swMa1wAKMkRg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Source-IP: acsmt703.oracle.com [141.146.40.81] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090207.497F2BD0.0240:SCFSTAT928724,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 Hi Tassilo and Alan, The discussion so far has already covered pretty much everything: - it's typically a user-error case, not a use case - the message is too long (probably for all cases - my guess) - the message is too complex and inappropriate for this error case > Sure. So what's your advice how to handle this situation? > Check if the file is existent (and non-empty) and if not, print a message and > fallback to fundamental mode? Yes, I think so. Dunno if doc-view handles an existing empty file - I'd guess not. If it does not then there are two error cases here: (1) a new, empty buffer and (2) an existing empty file. It would be good to treat each of these error cases specially: differently from the normal doc-view bad-PDF error intended by the current message. In both of these cases, the buffer should not be put in doc-view mode, but just kicked into fundamental mode with an error message. The message should not assume the user knows anything about doc view or PDF files. It should just point out that the file (a) doesn't exist or (b) is empty. An alternative would be not to visit the empty file at all - just display an error. But there might be a (marginal) use case for letting the user edit the file in some non-doc-view mode (e.g. fundamental) and even save it. FWIW, I came upon this by trying to create a few phony files to do some Dired, shell etc. testing with. I wanted files (not just buffers) with different, recognized extensions, and I didn't want to take the time to find real PDF files etc. and copy them. Yes, I could have created files with a different extension (*.el, *.txt) and then renamed them, but I didn't. ;-) Another case is what happens if a user visits a non-empty text file named foo.pdf? Again, the buffer should be put in fundamental mode and an error message raised. The message should say that *.pdf is associated with doc-view mode, but this is not a well-formed PDF file. IOW, the not-valid-PDF message must make sense also to a user unfamiliar with images. If you want to give additional info about the invalid PDF in the case of a normal bad-PDF file, then consider giving first such a short message, but mention that the user can hit some key for more information. When s?he hits that key, pop up a buffer with the detailed diagnosis for the bad PDF. FYI - I filed a similar bug for image file: #2077. From tassilo@member.fsf.org Tue Jan 27 08:03:28 2009 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 27 Jan 2009 16:03:28 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.6 required=4.0 tests=FOURLA,HAS_BUG_NUMBER,PDFNAME autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0RG3OeR027733 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 08:03:26 -0800 Received: from mail.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:60078 helo=mx10.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1LRqNm-0004CJ-EK for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 11:01:46 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LRqPL-00054J-JC for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 11:03:24 -0500 Received: from deliver.uni-koblenz.de ([141.26.64.15]:20633) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LRqPL-000546-9Y for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 11:03:23 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deliver.uni-koblenz.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B3D4789AD6A; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:03:22 +0100 (CET) Received: from deliver.uni-koblenz.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (deliver.uni-koblenz.de [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11883-10; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:03:21 +0100 (CET) X-CHKRCPT: Envelopesender vrfy tassilo@member.fsf.org Received: from thinkpad.tsdh.de (dhcp37.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.71.37]) by deliver.uni-koblenz.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 531D0789AD43; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:03:21 +0100 (CET) From: Tassilo Horn To: Alan Mackenzie Cc: 2058@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams , emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#2058: 23.0.60; bewildering behavior when visit new file throw.pdf References: <87tz7lt6n7.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> <20090127120236.GB2116@muc.de> <87ab9ckjgd.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> <20090127144220.GA6134@muc.de> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:03:21 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20090127144220.GA6134@muc.de> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Tue, 27 Jan 2009 14:42:20 +0000") Message-ID: <87wscg91o6.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at uni-koblenz.de X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) Hi Alan & Drew, I've made some changes: - I enhanced the docstring to mention what doc-view actually is. - If the file doesn't exist or is empty, then we fallback to ps-mode or fundamental-mode, depending on the file name extension - If the images cannot be displayed (no png support, missing conversion utility, tty frame), then the message is more explicit. Now it says to which mode C-c C-c would switch, the C-c C-t message was enhanced according to Alan's suggestion and it mentions `k' which kills the buffer and stops a possibly running conversion. Please check if those changes DTRT, or if something is still too crappy to be released with 23.1. Bye, Tassilo From drew.adams@oracle.com Tue Jan 27 08:20:36 2009 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 27 Jan 2009 16:20:37 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.6 required=4.0 tests=FOURLA,HAS_BUG_NUMBER,PDFNAME autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0RGKUYI000984 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 08:20:31 -0800 Received: from mail.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:60765 helo=mx10.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1LRqeK-00089X-5J for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 11:18:52 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LRqft-0007KO-BO for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 11:20:29 -0500 Received: from acsinet11.oracle.com ([141.146.126.233]:23578) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LRqfs-0007Ju-T6 for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 11:20:29 -0500 Received: from acsinet13.oracle.com (acsinet13.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by acsinet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n0RGM5Xe019934 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:22:06 GMT Received: from acsmt701.oracle.com (acsmt701.oracle.com [141.146.40.71]) by acsinet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n0RGKAhA027633; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:20:11 GMT Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.5.128.33) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:20:08 +0000 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Tassilo Horn'" , "'Alan Mackenzie'" Cc: <2058@debbugs.gnu.org>, References: <87tz7lt6n7.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> <20090127120236.GB2116@muc.de><87ab9ckjgd.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> <20090127144220.GA6134@muc.de> <87wscg91o6.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> Subject: RE: bug#2058: 23.0.60; bewildering behavior when visit new file throw.pdf Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 08:20:07 -0800 Message-ID: <004001c9809b$1fd44120$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-reply-to: <87wscg91o6.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> Thread-Index: AcmAmNTHVbZXOgNERlOJNHF7rxTvmQAAN/2g X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Source-IP: acsmt701.oracle.com [141.146.40.71] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090209.497F343A.00E9:SCFSTAT928724,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) Thanks, Tassilo. I can't check it, but I'm sure it's much better. Thx - Drew > Hi Alan & Drew, > > I've made some changes: > > - I enhanced the docstring to mention what doc-view actually is. > > - If the file doesn't exist or is empty, then we fallback to ps-mode > or fundamental-mode, depending on the file name extension > > - If the images cannot be displayed (no png support, missing > conversion utility, tty frame), then the message is more explicit. > Now it says to which mode C-c C-c would switch, the C-c > C-t message > was enhanced according to Alan's suggestion and it mentions `k' > which kills the buffer and stops a possibly running conversion. > > Please check if those changes DTRT, or if something is still > too crappy to be released with 23.1. From rms@gnu.org Tue Jan 27 15:00:13 2009 Received: (at 2058) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 27 Jan 2009 23:00:13 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.5 required=4.0 tests=HAS_BUG_NUMBER,PDFNAME autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0RN06FS003993 for <2058@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:00:07 -0800 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1LRwt1-00036i-JW; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:58:27 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: Richard M Stallman To: Tassilo Horn , 2058@debbugs.gnu.org CC: drew.adams@oracle.com, 2058@debbugs.gnu.org In-reply-to: <87tz7lt6n7.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> (message from Tassilo Horn on Tue, 27 Jan 2009 10:55:40 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#2058: 23.0.60; bewildering behavior when visit new file throw.pdf Reply-to: rms@gnu.org References: <87tz7lt6n7.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> Message-Id: Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:58:27 -0500 > I did C-x C-f throw.pdf, with no existing file throw.pdf. The ensuing > messages and interaction were bewildering. Is that really a use-case? Sure. It is not very useful, but why give a misleading and inaccurate error message? It would be better to do (message "Empty file is not a real PDF file") From tassilo@member.fsf.org Tue Jan 27 23:45:43 2009 Received: (at 2058) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 28 Jan 2009 07:45:44 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.5 required=4.0 tests=HAS_BUG_NUMBER,PDFNAME autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from deliver.uni-koblenz.de (deliver.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.64.15]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0S7jaNh007901 for <2058@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 23:45:37 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deliver.uni-koblenz.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99BB37890041; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:45:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from deliver.uni-koblenz.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (deliver.uni-koblenz.de [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14596-07; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:45:33 +0100 (CET) X-CHKRCPT: Envelopesender vrfy tassilo@member.fsf.org Received: from thinkpad.tsdh.de (dhcp98.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.71.98]) by deliver.uni-koblenz.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58B14789AE6B; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:45:33 +0100 (CET) From: Tassilo Horn To: rms@gnu.org Cc: 2058@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com Subject: Re: bug#2058: 23.0.60; bewildering behavior when visit new file throw.pdf References: <87tz7lt6n7.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:45:33 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Richard M. Stallman's message of "Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:58:27 -0500") Message-ID: <87ljsvzxeq.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at uni-koblenz.de Richard M Stallman writes: Hi Richard, > > I did C-x C-f throw.pdf, with no existing file throw.pdf. The ensuing > > messages and interaction were bewildering. > > Is that really a use-case? > > Sure. It is not very useful, but why give a misleading and inaccurate > error message? It would be better to do Now I switch to `fundamental-mode' for empty or non-existing PDF/DVI files and to `ps-mode' for empty or non-existing PS files. I think this is appropriate. Bye, Tassilo From tassilo@member.fsf.org Wed Jan 28 00:18:59 2009 Received: (at 2058-close) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 28 Jan 2009 08:18:59 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=4.0 tests=none autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from deliver.uni-koblenz.de (deliver.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.64.15]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0S8Iu9b015919 for <2058-close@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 00:18:58 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deliver.uni-koblenz.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2712E789AE92 for <2058-close@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 09:18:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from deliver.uni-koblenz.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (deliver.uni-koblenz.de [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25348-04 for <2058-close@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 09:18:55 +0100 (CET) X-CHKRCPT: Envelopesender vrfy tassilo@member.fsf.org Received: from thinkpad.tsdh.de (dhcp98.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.71.98]) by deliver.uni-koblenz.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98ABB789AE46 for <2058-close@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 09:18:55 +0100 (CET) From: Tassilo Horn To: 2058-close@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Closing that bug Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 09:18:55 +0100 Message-ID: <87ab9bzvv4.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at uni-koblenz.de Hi all, I'm closing that bug, cause I think doc-view does TRT now. If you don't agree, please drop me a mail... Bye, Tassilo From geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Wed Jan 28 00:48:14 2009 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 28 Jan 2009 08:48:14 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.5 required=4.0 tests=HAS_BUG_NUMBER,PDFNAME autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0S8mBkt023170 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 00:48:12 -0800 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LS65j-0002rC-7n for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 03:48:11 -0500 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LS65i-0002r0-8g for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 03:48:10 -0500 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=40672 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LS65i-0002qx-5u for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 03:48:10 -0500 Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2]:37067 helo=ciao.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LS65h-0001C9-9z for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 03:48:09 -0500 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1LS65d-0008Mq-1O for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:48:05 +0000 Received: from c-67-161-145-183.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([67.161.145.183]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:48:05 +0000 Received: from kevin.d.rodgers by c-67-161-145-183.hsd1.co.comcast.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:48:05 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: Kevin Rodgers Subject: Re: bug#2058: 23.0.60; bewildering behavior when visit new file throw.pdf Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 01:48:02 -0700 Lines: 25 Message-ID: References: <87tz7lt6n7.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> <20090127120236.GB2116@muc.de> <87ab9ckjgd.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> <20090127144220.GA6134@muc.de> <87wscg91o6.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-67-161-145-183.hsd1.co.comcast.net User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Macintosh/20081209) In-Reply-To: <87wscg91o6.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> Sender: news Cc: emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) Tassilo Horn wrote: > Hi Alan & Drew, > > I've made some changes: > > - I enhanced the docstring to mention what doc-view actually is. > > - If the file doesn't exist or is empty, then we fallback to ps-mode > or fundamental-mode, depending on the file name extension Why not do something like (let ((auto-mode-alist (remq (rassq 'doc-view-mode auto-mode-alist) auto-mode-alist))) (normal-mode)) > - If the images cannot be displayed (no png support, missing > conversion utility, tty frame), then the message is more explicit. > Now it says to which mode C-c C-c would switch, the C-c C-t message > was enhanced according to Alan's suggestion and it mentions `k' > which kills the buffer and stops a possibly running conversion. -- Kevin Rodgers Denver, Colorado, USA From tassilo@member.fsf.org Wed Jan 28 12:29:09 2009 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 28 Jan 2009 20:29:09 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.5 required=4.0 tests=GMAIL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER,PDFNAME autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0SKT6Ux005927 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:29:07 -0800 Received: from mail.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:52881 helo=mx10.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1LSH0P-0006y8-0h for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:27:26 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LSH1z-0005pW-C5 for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:29:04 -0500 Received: from out5.smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.29]:51464) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LSH1z-0005pI-3I; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:29:03 -0500 Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.internal [10.202.2.41]) by out1.fastmail.fm (Postfix) with ESMTP id B49CF25F44B; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:29:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from heartbeat1.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.160]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:29:00 -0500 X-Sasl-enc: 1MMlXJVrBKoTHO1MvvIJ/HeP36wL67mqHVc2/ag7xmgE 1233174540 Received: from thinkpad.tsdh.de (p54AF26DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.175.38.221]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id CCA9512789; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:28:58 -0500 (EST) From: Tassilo Horn To: Kevin Rodgers Cc: 2058@debbugs.gnu.org, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#2058: 23.0.60; bewildering behavior when visit new file throw.pdf In-Reply-To: (Kevin Rodgers's message of "Wed, 28 Jan 2009 01:48:02 -0700") References: <87tz7lt6n7.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> <20090127120236.GB2116@muc.de> <87ab9ckjgd.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> <20090127144220.GA6134@muc.de> <87wscg91o6.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 21:28:56 +0100 Message-ID: <87pri7p43b.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-CrossAssassin-Score: 3 Kevin Rodgers writes: Hi Kevin, >> - If the file doesn't exist or is empty, then we fallback to ps-mode >> or fundamental-mode, depending on the file name extension > > Why not do something like > > (let ((auto-mode-alist (remq (rassq 'doc-view-mode auto-mode-alist) > auto-mode-alist))) > (normal-mode)) Yes, that's better. I'll change that. Bye, Tassilo -- Windows: So easy to admin, even a worm can do it. From unknown Sat Aug 09 09:32:21 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: $requester Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 15:24:05 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # A New Hope # A log time ago, in a galaxy far, far away # something happened. # # Magically this resulted in the following # action being taken, but this fake control # message doesn't tell you why it happened # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator