From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 01 20:45:43 2015 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 May 2015 00:45:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59037 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YoLYp-0007GL-Uc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 20:45:43 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:33778) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YoKUA-0005MM-PT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 19:36:48 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YoKU2-00040r-T9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 19:36:41 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:60866) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YoKU2-00040n-QY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 19:36:38 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47262) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YoKTz-0000SQ-Os for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 19:36:38 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YoKTl-0003xt-0l for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 19:36:35 -0400 Received: from mail-qg0-x22c.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22c]:35083) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YoKTk-0003xW-QW for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 19:36:20 -0400 Received: by qgej70 with SMTP id j70so43884437qge.2 for ; Fri, 01 May 2015 16:36:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=8lXBPPVPAy025qj6yKmnZneXG2pHbnmY7NJGNh6eYTQ=; b=s85q2f243b5evAw5ps3PN3pEDb3nxLgSo+552A5aUqDDlot8Ud2DSdAWnf38TEmHL1 cYCSb1J6vz7uRbzgDnrYASmIxhyPCn/ximn5JFiggbHZzzV8Iwl472f+vgkWchmD6Tj0 V/ybEmbiv4sBTwLhGQbxflXrqEqnFWT0ODV369NHdLGaPBb3s2sHNJuNlL0x+mGBItbi cLc969/GbrL4PVh9ctyt7yCyVma+4D2ajCH9md6BQ0Q4H1oThzNZwLzeeJ1xAY14a5Bc RBitjiDkVid9OW8cCuH1gt+Dsvrh9fPY1VK03eJjuQKHsAK3jIhjiuxT5MWzjk2mfu6z wVWA== X-Received: by 10.55.31.218 with SMTP id n87mr23337153qkh.99.1430523379943; Fri, 01 May 2015 16:36:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jacob Oursland Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 23:36:19 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: 25.0.50; Directory tracking in ansi-term broken. To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1147e85ee7943d05150dad12 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 01 May 2015 20:45:37 -0400 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) --001a1147e85ee7943d05150dad12 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 My inferior shell is bash. I have confirmed that this problem exists with 'emacs -Q'. Re-setting my PS1 to the bash default PS1='\h:\w\$ ' and starting Emacs didn't help either. Steps to reproduce: 1. emacs -Q 2. M-x ansi-term RET RET 3. cd /tmp (or any other directory) 4. C-x C-f Expected behavior: Emacs will indicate the shell's working directory (/tmp) in the find-file minibuffer prompt. Actual behavior: Emacs indicates the Emacs working directory working directory ($HOME, for me) in the find-file minibuffer prompt. I found that if I revert commit aad65192332dfc4a1df0cd2953554c21da243b51 the problem goes away. In GNU Emacs 25.0.50.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.10.8) of 2015-04-19 on lgw01-10 Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11501000 System Description: Ubuntu 14.04.2 LTS Configured using: `configure --build=x86_64-linux-gnu --prefix=/usr '--includedir=${prefix}/include' '--mandir=${prefix}/share/man' '--infodir=${prefix}/share/info' --sysconfdir=/etc --localstatedir=/var '--libdir=${prefix}/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu' '--libexecdir=${prefix}/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu' --disable-maintainer-mode --disable-dependency-tracking --prefix=/usr --sharedstatedir=/var/lib --program-suffix=-snapshot --with-x=yes --with-x-toolkit=gtk3 'CFLAGS=-g -O2 -fstack-protector --param=ssp-buffer-size=4 -Wformat -Werror=format-security' CPPFLAGS=-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 'LDFLAGS=-Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions -Wl,-z,relro'' Configured features: XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG IMAGEMAGICK SOUND GPM DBUS GCONF GSETTINGS NOTIFY LIBSELINUX GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE M17N_FLT LIBOTF XFT ZLIB Important settings: value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8 value of $XMODIFIERS: @im=ibus locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: Lisp Interaction Minor modes in effect: TeX-PDF-mode: t global-auto-complete-mode: t dirtrack-debug-mode: t magit-auto-revert-mode: t diff-auto-refine-mode: t elisp-slime-nav-mode: t display-time-mode: t shell-dirtrack-mode: t global-company-mode: t company-mode: t xterm-mouse-mode: t winner-mode: t which-function-mode: t show-paren-mode: t global-auto-revert-mode: t tooltip-mode: t global-eldoc-mode: t electric-indent-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t column-number-mode: t line-number-mode: t Recent messages: Creating group entries...done Creating customization items ...done Resetting customization items...done Creating customization setup...done Auto-saving...done Save all settings in this buffer? (y or n) y Saving file /home/jso/.emacs.d/init.el... Wrote /home/jso/.emacs.d/init.el [2 times] Mark set [4 times] Buffer *unsent mail to bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org* modified; kill anyway? (y or n) y Load-path shadows: /home/jso/.emacs.d/elpa/cmake-mode-20150120.620/cmake-mode hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/cmake-mode /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/rst hides /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50/lisp/textmodes/rst /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/dictionaries-common/ispell hides /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50/lisp/textmodes/ispell /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/dictionaries-common/flyspell hides /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50/lisp/textmodes/flyspell ~/.emacs.d/cc-mode/cc-guess hides /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50/lisp/progmodes/cc-guess ~/.emacs.d/cc-mode/cc-vars hides /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50/lisp/progmodes/cc-vars ~/.emacs.d/cc-mode/cc-mode hides /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50/lisp/progmodes/cc-mode ~/.emacs.d/cc-mode/cc-bytecomp hides /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50/lisp/progmodes/cc-bytecomp ~/.emacs.d/cc-mode/cc-styles hides /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50/lisp/progmodes/cc-styles ~/.emacs.d/cc-mode/cc-fonts hides /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50/lisp/progmodes/cc-fonts ~/.emacs.d/cc-mode/cc-menus hides /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50/lisp/progmodes/cc-menus ~/.emacs.d/cc-mode/cc-cmds hides /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50/lisp/progmodes/cc-cmds ~/.emacs.d/cc-mode/cc-align hides /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50/lisp/progmodes/cc-align ~/.emacs.d/cc-mode/cc-engine hides /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50/lisp/progmodes/cc-engine ~/.emacs.d/cc-mode/cc-defs hides /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50/lisp/progmodes/cc-defs ~/.emacs.d/cc-mode/cc-awk hides /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50/lisp/progmodes/cc-awk ~/.emacs.d/cc-mode/cc-langs hides /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50/lisp/progmodes/cc-langs /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/latex-cjk-thai/thai-word hides /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50/lisp/language/thai-word ~/.emacs.d/cc-mode/cc-compat hides /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50/lisp/obsolete/cc-compat Features: (uudecode uce supercite regi spam-report spam spam-stat gnus-uu yenc gnus-msg gnus-art mm-uu mml2015 mm-view mml-smime smime dig smtpmail sieve-manage rmail pop3 mspools mh-e mh-compat mh-acros mh-buffers mh-loaddefs mairix mailclient browse-url mailalias mail-hist imap hashcash gnus-dired fortune feedmail eudc-vars ecomplete binhex apropos footnote shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug sendmail mm-archive url-handlers eieio-opt speedbar sb-image ezimage dframe pcmpl-unix em-unix em-term em-script em-prompt em-ls em-hist em-pred em-glob em-dirs em-cmpl em-basic em-banner em-alias magit-blame cmake-mode ruler-mode hl-line hexl smerge-mode ert timezone texinfo toolbar-x prv-emacs reporter desktop frameset context plain-tex latex tex-style tex-buf tex dbus xml crm tempo company-dabbrev hippie-exp debug json irony-cdb jedi-core python-environment epc ctable concurrent deferred ediff-merg ediff-wind ediff-diff ediff-mult ediff-help ediff-init ediff-util ediff dired-x org-rmail org-mhe org-irc org-info org-gnus org-docview org-bibtex org-bbdb org-w3m rng-loc rng-uri rng-parse rng-match rng-dt rng-util rng-pttrn nxml-parse nxml-ns nxml-enc xmltok nxml-util ox-latex ox-icalendar ox-html table ox-ascii ox-publish ox org-element org-table org-agenda esh-var esh-io esh-cmd esh-opt esh-ext esh-proc esh-arg esh-groups eshell esh-module esh-mode esh-util doc-view jka-compr image-mode bibtex org-id org org-macro org-footnote org-pcomplete org-list org-faces org-entities org-version ob-python ob-emacs-lisp org-loaddefs cal-menu calendar cal-loaddefs gnus-sum gnus-group gnus-undo gnus-start gnus-cloud nnimap nnmail mail-source utf7 netrc nnoo parse-time gnus-spec gnus-int gnus-range gnus-win gnus gnus-ems nnheader ob-octave noutline outline calc calc-loaddefs calc-macs ob ob-tangle ob-ref ob-lob ob-table ob-exp org-src ob-keys ob-comint ob-core ob-eval org-compat org-macs rx auto-complete rtags popup repeat bookmark company-template warnings autoload lisp-mnt tar-mode url-http url-gw url-cache url-auth url url-proxy url-privacy url-expand url-methods url-history url-cookie url-domsuf url-util url-parse url-vars mailcap sgml-mode make-mode novice dirtrack sql socks network-stream nsm starttls tls rlogin proced metamail gud flyspell ispell pp cus-edit wid-edit magit-key-mode magit view grep epa derived epg git-rebase-mode git-commit-mode log-edit message dired rfc822 mml mml-sec mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mailabbrev mail-utils gmm-utils mailheader pcvs-util xterm conf-mode add-log sh-script smie executable thingatpt misearch multi-isearch vc vc-dispatcher vc-git diff-mode cpp cc-mode cc-fonts cc-awk cc-guess cc-menus cc-cmds cc-styles cc-align cc-engine cc-langs cc-vars cc-defs cc-bytecomp tabify man tramp-cache elisp-slime-nav help-mode company-cmake company-irony irony-completion irony-snippet server term disp-table ehelp powerline time cl windmove ido tramp tramp-compat auth-source gnus-util mm-util mail-prsvr password-cache tramp-loaddefs trampver shell pcomplete format-spec advice help-fns irony find-func company easy-mmode cl-macs ggtags etags xref eieio eieio-core cl-generic byte-opt gv bytecomp byte-compile cl-extra seq cconv compile comint ansi-color ewoc edmacro kmacro cl-loaddefs pcase cl-lib finder-inf tex-site info easymenu package epg-config saveplace leuven-theme xt-mouse winner ring which-func imenu paren autorevert filenotify cus-start cus-load mule-util time-date tooltip eldoc electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel x-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list newcomment elisp-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev minibuffer cl-preloaded nadvice loaddefs button faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote make-network-process dbusbind gfilenotify dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 5101727 455519) (symbols 48 74114 0) (miscs 40 12397 14840) (strings 32 207635 114021) (string-bytes 1 6335085) (vectors 16 79150) (vector-slots 8 2022361 83492) (floats 8 982 3084) (intervals 56 838741 22842) (buffers 976 184) (heap 1024 216591 159638)) --001a1147e85ee7943d05150dad12 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My inferior shell is bash.=C2=A0 I have confirme= d that this problem exists
with 'emacs -Q'.=C2=A0 Re-= setting my PS1 to the bash default PS1=3D'\h:\w\$ '
and s= tarting Emacs didn't help either.

Steps to rep= roduce:
1. emacs -Q
2. M-x ansi-term RET RET
= 3. cd /tmp (or any other directory)
4. C-x C-f=C2=A0
Expected behavior:
Emacs will indicate the shell'= ;s working directory (/tmp) in the
find-file minibuffer prompt.

Actual behavior:
Emacs indicates the Emac= s working directory working directory ($HOME,
for me) in the find= -file minibuffer prompt.

I found that if I revert = commit aad65192332dfc4a1df0cd2953554c21da243b51
the problem goes = away.



In GNU Emacs 2= 5.0.50.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.10.8)
=C2=A0of 2015= -04-19 on lgw01-10
Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Founda= tion', version 11.0.11501000
System Description: Ubuntu 14.04.2 LTS

Configured using:
=C2=A0`configure --build= =3Dx86_64-linux-gnu --prefix=3D/usr
=C2=A0'--includedir=3D${p= refix}/include' '--mandir=3D${prefix}/share/man'
=C2= =A0'--infodir=3D${prefix}/share/info' --sysconfdir=3D/etc --localst= atedir=3D/var
=C2=A0'--libdir=3D${prefix}/lib/x86_64-linux-gn= u'
=C2=A0'--libexecdir=3D${prefix}/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu&#= 39; --disable-maintainer-mode
=C2=A0--disable-dependency-tracking= --prefix=3D/usr --sharedstatedir=3D/var/lib
=C2=A0--program-suff= ix=3D-snapshot --with-x=3Dyes --with-x-toolkit=3Dgtk3
=C2=A0'= CFLAGS=3D-g -O2 -fstack-protector --param=3Dssp-buffer-size=3D4 -Wformat
=C2=A0-Werror=3Dformat-security' CPPFLAGS=3D-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE= =3D2
=C2=A0'LDFLAGS=3D-Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions -Wl,-z,relro&#= 39;'

Configured features:
XPM JPEG T= IFF GIF PNG RSVG IMAGEMAGICK SOUND GPM DBUS GCONF GSETTINGS
NOTIF= Y LIBSELINUX GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE M17N_FLT LIBOTF XFT ZLIB
Important settings:
=C2=A0 value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-= 8
=C2=A0 value of $XMODIFIERS: @im=3Dibus
=C2=A0 locale= -coding-system: utf-8-unix

Major mode: Lisp Intera= ction

Minor modes in effect:
=C2=A0 TeX-= PDF-mode: t
=C2=A0 global-auto-complete-mode: t
=C2=A0 = dirtrack-debug-mode: t
=C2=A0 magit-auto-revert-mode: t
=C2=A0 diff-auto-refine-mode: t
=C2=A0 elisp-slime-nav-mode: t
=C2=A0 display-time-mode: t
=C2=A0 shell-dirtrack-mode: = t
=C2=A0 global-company-mode: t
=C2=A0 company-mode: t<= /div>
=C2=A0 xterm-mouse-mode: t
=C2=A0 winner-mode: t
<= div>=C2=A0 which-function-mode: t
=C2=A0 show-paren-mode: t
=
=C2=A0 global-auto-revert-mode: t
=C2=A0 tooltip-mode: t
=C2=A0 global-eldoc-mode: t
=C2=A0 electric-indent-mode: t=
=C2=A0 mouse-wheel-mode: t
=C2=A0 file-name-shadow-mod= e: t
=C2=A0 global-font-lock-mode: t
=C2=A0 font-lock-m= ode: t
=C2=A0 blink-cursor-mode: t
=C2=A0 auto-composit= ion-mode: t
=C2=A0 auto-encryption-mode: t
=C2=A0 auto-= compression-mode: t
=C2=A0 column-number-mode: t
=C2=A0= line-number-mode: t

Recent messages:
Cr= eating group entries...done
Creating customization items ...done<= /div>
Resetting customization items...done
Creating customiza= tion setup...done
Auto-saving...done
Save all settings = in this buffer? (y or n) y
Saving file /home/jso/.emacs.d/init.el= ...
Wrote /home/jso/.emacs.d/init.el [2 times]
Mark set= [4 times]
Buffer *unsent mail to bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org* modified; kill anyway? (y or n) y

Load-path shadows:
/home/jso/.emacs.d/elpa/c= make-mode-20150120.620/cmake-mode hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/cmake-mo= de
/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/rst hides /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50/= lisp/textmodes/rst
/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/dictionaries-common= /ispell hides /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50/lisp/textmodes/ispell
/usr= /share/emacs/site-lisp/dictionaries-common/flyspell hides /usr/share/emacs/= 25.0.50/lisp/textmodes/flyspell
~/.emacs.d/cc-mode/cc-guess hides= /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50/lisp/progmodes/cc-guess
~/.emacs.d/cc-m= ode/cc-vars hides /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50/lisp/progmodes/cc-vars
~/.emacs.d/cc-mode/cc-mode hides /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50/lisp/progmodes/c= c-mode
~/.emacs.d/cc-mode/cc-bytecomp hides /usr/share/emacs/25.0= .50/lisp/progmodes/cc-bytecomp
~/.emacs.d/cc-mode/cc-styles hides= /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50/lisp/progmodes/cc-styles
~/.emacs.d/cc-= mode/cc-fonts hides /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50/lisp/progmodes/cc-fonts
<= div>~/.emacs.d/cc-mode/cc-menus hides /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50/lisp/progmod= es/cc-menus
~/.emacs.d/cc-mode/cc-cmds hides /usr/share/emacs/25.= 0.50/lisp/progmodes/cc-cmds
~/.emacs.d/cc-mode/cc-align hides /us= r/share/emacs/25.0.50/lisp/progmodes/cc-align
~/.emacs.d/cc-mode/= cc-engine hides /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50/lisp/progmodes/cc-engine
~/.emacs.d/cc-mode/cc-defs hides /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50/lisp/progmodes/c= c-defs
~/.emacs.d/cc-mode/cc-awk hides /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50/l= isp/progmodes/cc-awk
~/.emacs.d/cc-mode/cc-langs hides /usr/share= /emacs/25.0.50/lisp/progmodes/cc-langs
/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp= /latex-cjk-thai/thai-word hides /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50/lisp/language/thai= -word
~/.emacs.d/cc-mode/cc-compat hides /usr/share/emacs/25.0.50= /lisp/obsolete/cc-compat

Features:
(uude= code uce supercite regi spam-report spam spam-stat gnus-uu yenc
g= nus-msg gnus-art mm-uu mml2015 mm-view mml-smime smime dig smtpmail
sieve-manage rmail pop3 mspools mh-e mh-compat mh-acros mh-buffers
=
mh-loaddefs mairix mailclient browse-url mailalias mail-hist imap
hashcash gnus-dired fortune feedmail eudc-vars ecomplete binhex aprop= os
footnote shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug sendmail mm-archive ur= l-handlers
eieio-opt speedbar sb-image ezimage dframe pcmpl-unix = em-unix em-term
em-script em-prompt em-ls em-hist em-pred em-glob= em-dirs em-cmpl
em-basic em-banner em-alias magit-blame cmake-mo= de ruler-mode hl-line
hexl smerge-mode ert timezone texinfo toolb= ar-x prv-emacs reporter
desktop frameset context plain-tex latex = tex-style tex-buf tex dbus xml
crm tempo company-dabbrev hippie-e= xp debug json irony-cdb jedi-core
python-environment epc ctable c= oncurrent deferred ediff-merg ediff-wind
ediff-diff ediff-mult ed= iff-help ediff-init ediff-util ediff dired-x
org-rmail org-mhe or= g-irc org-info org-gnus org-docview org-bibtex
org-bbdb org-w3m r= ng-loc rng-uri rng-parse rng-match rng-dt rng-util
rng-pttrn nxml= -parse nxml-ns nxml-enc xmltok nxml-util ox-latex
ox-icalendar ox= -html table ox-ascii ox-publish ox org-element org-table
org-agen= da esh-var esh-io esh-cmd esh-opt esh-ext esh-proc esh-arg
esh-gr= oups eshell esh-module esh-mode esh-util doc-view jka-compr
image= -mode bibtex org-id org org-macro org-footnote org-pcomplete
org-= list org-faces org-entities org-version ob-python ob-emacs-lisp
o= rg-loaddefs cal-menu calendar cal-loaddefs gnus-sum gnus-group
gn= us-undo gnus-start gnus-cloud nnimap nnmail mail-source utf7 netrc
nnoo parse-time gnus-spec gnus-int gnus-range gnus-win gnus gnus-ems
nnheader ob-octave noutline outline calc calc-loaddefs calc-macs ob
ob-tangle ob-ref ob-lob ob-table ob-exp org-src ob-keys ob-comint<= /div>
ob-core ob-eval org-compat org-macs rx auto-complete rtags popup = repeat
bookmark company-template warnings autoload lisp-mnt tar-m= ode url-http
url-gw url-cache url-auth url url-proxy url-privacy = url-expand
url-methods url-history url-cookie url-domsuf url-util= url-parse
url-vars mailcap sgml-mode make-mode novice dirtrack s= ql socks
network-stream nsm starttls tls rlogin proced metamail g= ud flyspell
ispell pp cus-edit wid-edit magit-key-mode magit view= grep epa derived
epg git-rebase-mode git-commit-mode log-edit me= ssage dired rfc822 mml
mml-sec mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail= -parse rfc2231 rfc2047 rfc2045
ietf-drums mailabbrev mail-utils g= mm-utils mailheader pcvs-util xterm
conf-mode add-log sh-script s= mie executable thingatpt misearch
multi-isearch vc vc-dispatcher = vc-git diff-mode cpp cc-mode cc-fonts
cc-awk cc-guess cc-menus cc= -cmds cc-styles cc-align cc-engine cc-langs
cc-vars cc-defs cc-by= tecomp tabify man tramp-cache elisp-slime-nav
help-mode company-c= make company-irony irony-completion irony-snippet
server term dis= p-table ehelp powerline time cl windmove ido tramp
tramp-compat a= uth-source gnus-util mm-util mail-prsvr password-cache
tramp-load= defs trampver shell pcomplete format-spec advice help-fns
irony f= ind-func company easy-mmode cl-macs ggtags etags xref eieio
eieio= -core cl-generic byte-opt gv bytecomp byte-compile cl-extra seq
c= conv compile comint ansi-color ewoc edmacro kmacro cl-loaddefs pcase
<= div>cl-lib finder-inf tex-site info easymenu package epg-config saveplace
leuven-theme xt-mouse winner ring which-func imenu paren autorever= t
filenotify cus-start cus-load mule-util time-date tooltip eldoc= electric
uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel x-w= in x-dnd tool-bar
dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-l= ist newcomment elisp-mode
lisp-mode prog-mode register page menu-= bar rfn-eshadow timer select
scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock = syntax facemenu font-core frame cham
georgian utf-8-lang misc-lan= g vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao
korean japanese hebrew gre= ek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic
indian cyrillic chines= e case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple
abbrev minibuffer= cl-preloaded nadvice loaddefs button faces cus-face
macroexp fil= es text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env
code-pages = mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote
make-networ= k-process dbusbind gfilenotify dynamic-setting
system-font-settin= g font-render-setting move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x
multi-tty emac= s)

Memory information:
((conses 16 51017= 27 455519)
=C2=A0(symbols 48 74114 0)
=C2=A0(miscs 40 1= 2397 14840)
=C2=A0(strings 32 207635 114021)
=C2=A0(str= ing-bytes 1 6335085)
=C2=A0(vectors 16 79150)
=C2=A0(ve= ctor-slots 8 2022361 83492)
=C2=A0(floats 8 982 3084)
= =C2=A0(intervals 56 838741 22842)
=C2=A0(buffers 976 184)
=C2=A0(heap 1024 216591 159638))

--001a1147e85ee7943d05150dad12-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 01 20:47:21 2015 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 May 2015 00:47:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59042 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YoLaT-0007Ja-2S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 20:47:21 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:52663 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YoLaQ-0007JO-QT for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 20:47:19 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YoLaQ-0003O5-DO for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 20:47:18 -0400 Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 20:47:18 -0400 Message-Id: Subject: control message for bug 19759 To: X-Mailer: mail (GNU Mailutils 2.1) From: Glenn Morris X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) block 19759 by 20484 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 01 22:17:51 2015 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 May 2015 02:17:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59051 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YoN02-0002kc-If for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 22:17:50 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:54614 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YoN00-0002kU-Fd for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 22:17:48 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YoMzz-0001A3-DD; Fri, 01 May 2015 22:17:47 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Jacob Oursland Subject: Re: bug#20484: 25.0.50; Directory tracking in ansi-term broken. References: X-Spook: bemd csystems Albania Adriatic colonel Saddam Hussein X-Ran: B+1e|y_omdA`'p46#7/[4w;B4MB8Z&:E[PXua`W&*@_ra*58+ZsO@S3c,g['T9^Y:Ldd-} X-Hue: green X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 22:17:47 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Jacob Oursland's message of "Fri, 01 May 2015 23:36:19 +0000") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Jacob Oursland wrote: > 1. emacs -Q > 2. M-x ansi-term RET RET > 3. cd /tmp (or any other directory) > 4. C-x C-f > > Expected behavior: > Emacs will indicate the shell's working directory (/tmp) in the > find-file minibuffer prompt. > > Actual behavior: > Emacs indicates the Emacs working directory working directory ($HOME, > for me) in the find-file minibuffer prompt. I can reproduce this problem. > I found that if I revert commit aad65192332dfc4a1df0cd2953554c21da243b51 > the problem goes away. However, I cannot reproduce this commit being the problem. Since that commit only touches shell.el, which is not even loaded in the above recipe, it's hard to see how it could be. Instead I find commit beaab89896 ("Stop messing with the EMACS env var") causes this. But that was just a quick experiment, not a proper bisection. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 01 22:43:57 2015 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 May 2015 02:43:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59055 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YoNPI-0003Oy-VB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 22:43:57 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:54926 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YoNPG-0003Oo-GR for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 22:43:55 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YoNPF-0002Ar-Cw; Fri, 01 May 2015 22:43:53 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Jacob Oursland Subject: Re: bug#20484: 25.0.50; Directory tracking in ansi-term broken. References: X-Spook: assassination arrangements Treasury Becker Fedayeen X-Ran: Yj#Vp&ts:fUhpzZTIDcTG9&#H:!AOMS>AH]ZWB"|.G:~%sNSstwXC-@m@\|E)XKG)rjPFR X-Hue: green X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 22:43:52 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Fri, 01 May 2015 22:17:47 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Glenn Morris wrote: > Instead I find commit beaab89896 ("Stop messing with the EMACS env var") > causes this. But that was just a quick experiment, not a proper bisection. You should be able to verify this by using eg EMACS='24.5.1 (term:0.96)' emacs -Q -f ansi-term and seeing that it works again. I don't get http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-03/msg01034.html It's just going to break things for anybody running any released version of bash (as predicted in the preceding message). It will be a long time before all the systems Emacs supports default to a suitably recent bash. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 02 15:33:11 2015 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 May 2015 19:33:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59983 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Yod9z-000540-48 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 May 2015 15:33:11 -0400 Received: from mail-qk0-f170.google.com ([209.85.220.170]:32859) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Yod9v-00053c-SZ for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 May 2015 15:33:08 -0400 Received: by qkx62 with SMTP id 62so66805765qkx.0 for <20484@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 02 May 2015 12:33:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=7OF5kO1cJ4BOwzbd1JdMZUwhyT+B+qzhVEYNEBi2ZJE=; b=bkeHezUf6aPjYKlKXpWxFPVJ2Munylg8Jkji4equNDlO5B9cmcGZPrbONzUxPRatsV WCE1yyGPMmxLeXUQuMoQWTUplQHQQJ+lJ0XZJFfH9u7wBM0Df6ebqmn/yDzaE+R+cnRl sRGYSfwtnMTQ7yDjZtUByfds9oseNzLftHQxkIe4Beb5QRsvzP0T/NwM4574Q5qleHd0 Z8G0uvHNPYd9L7criWthi+qJghzBFgbdJT42wszQFZ4kp8dGkNvFRbbmIoKCcWUOAZoW vOdLrN+vPgy8WEElEYgt39r/2uiM+rvbYBnirH9Xs13f++d1+xXo4z2MqTBHoXl+nDA3 COsQ== X-Received: by 10.140.27.162 with SMTP id 31mr17856167qgx.64.1430595182218; Sat, 02 May 2015 12:33:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Jacob Oursland Date: Sat, 02 May 2015 19:33:01 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#20484: 25.0.50; Directory tracking in ansi-term broken. To: Glenn Morris Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c15330a752fd05151e650b X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) --001a11c15330a752fd05151e650b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi Glenn, You are absolutely correct. I'm not sure how I found the other commit at fault, user error most definitely. I'm not entirely sure how to approach this, locally even. I guess I'll have to build my own debian packages to revert this change. Git master for Bash on Savannah doesn't even mention the INSIDE_EMACS environment variable, so the current software simply will not work. I believe that beaab89896 only serves to break things with little gain (to those who inappropriately used EMACS in their scripts). It certainly breaks things for users like me who exist almost entirely in Emacs. Has the intent to move away from the EMACS environment variable been communicated to the Bash folks? Thanks, Jake On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 7:43 PM Glenn Morris wrote: > Glenn Morris wrote: > > > Instead I find commit beaab89896 ("Stop messing with the EMACS env var") > > causes this. But that was just a quick experiment, not a proper > bisection. > > You should be able to verify this by using eg > > EMACS='24.5.1 (term:0.96)' emacs -Q -f ansi-term > > and seeing that it works again. > > I don't get > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-03/msg01034.html > > It's just going to break things for anybody running any released version > of bash (as predicted in the preceding message). It will be a long time > before all the systems Emacs supports default to a suitably recent bash. > --001a11c15330a752fd05151e650b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Glenn,

You are absolutely correct.=C2=A0 I'm= not sure how I found the other commit at fault, user error most definitely= .

I'm not entirely sure how to approach this, lo= cally even.=C2=A0 I guess I'll have to build my own debian packages to = revert this change.

Git master for Bash on Savanna= h doesn't even mention the INSIDE_EMACS environment variable, so the cu= rrent software simply will not work.=C2=A0 I believe that=C2=A0beaab89896 only serve= s to break things with little gain (to those who inappropriately used EMACS= in their scripts).=C2=A0 It certainly breaks things for users like me who = exist almost entirely in Emacs.=C2=A0 Has the intent to move away from the = EMACS environment variable been communicated to the Bash folks?

=
Thanks,
Jake

On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 7:43 PM Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> wrote:
Glenn Morris wrote:

> Instead I find commit beaab89896 ("Stop messing with the EMACS en= v var")
> causes this. But that was just a quick experiment, not a proper bisect= ion.

You should be able to verify this by using eg

EMACS=3D'24.5.1 (term:0.96)' emacs -Q -f ansi-term

and seeing that it works again.

I don't get
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-0= 3/msg01034.html

It's just going to break things for anybody running any released versio= n
of bash (as predicted in the preceding message). It will be a long time
before all the systems Emacs supports default to a suitably recent bash.
--001a11c15330a752fd05151e650b-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 03 01:45:22 2015 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 May 2015 05:45:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60154 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YomiQ-0003Tt-De for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 May 2015 01:45:22 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:14101) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YomiO-0003Te-9m for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 May 2015 01:45:20 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AnEFAGvvdVRFpYts/2dsb2JhbAA3gVOfQYIugQiBdQEBBAFWFgoDBQsLNBIUGA0kiBOiEYt1LAJBCQMBAoM+A4NwBKNjhFg X-IPAS-Result: AnEFAGvvdVRFpYts/2dsb2JhbAA3gVOfQYIugQiBdQEBBAFWFgoDBQsLNBIUGA0kiBOiEYt1LAJBCQMBAoM+A4NwBKNjhFg X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.11,557,1422939600"; d="scan'208";a="118124555" Received: from 69-165-139-108.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO ceviche.home) ([69.165.139.108]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 03 May 2015 01:45:15 -0400 Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 7E7796610A; Sun, 3 May 2015 01:45:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Jacob Oursland Subject: Re: bug#20484: 25.0.50; Directory tracking in ansi-term broken. Message-ID: References: Date: Sun, 03 May 2015 01:45:14 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Jacob Oursland's message of "Sat, 02 May 2015 19:33:01 +0000") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: Glenn Morris , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) > Git master for Bash on Savannah doesn't even mention the INSIDE_EMACS > environment variable, so the current software simply will not work. I > believe that beaab89896 only serves to break things with little gain (to > those who inappropriately used EMACS in their scripts). It certainly > breaks things for users like me who exist almost entirely in Emacs. Has > the intent to move away from the EMACS environment variable been > communicated to the Bash folks? The old $EMACS setting was declared obsolete many years ago. It looks like "the Bash folks" didn't notice yet. Hopefully beaab89896 will make them notice, Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 03 02:15:58 2015 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 May 2015 06:15:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60162 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YonC1-0004Nq-8z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 May 2015 02:15:58 -0400 Received: from mail-qc0-f174.google.com ([209.85.216.174]:33160) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YonBz-0004Ne-L6 for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 May 2015 02:15:56 -0400 Received: by qcvz3 with SMTP id z3so10221583qcv.0 for <20484@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 02 May 2015 23:15:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=Pkw8lq7oVCkeg9NBLwmtCQdvnMPmlMoN2dDkmWIZ6+w=; b=tI9UOAHSs78PBcI+b9fyaye/+VzYY7CbxPGrx1PHJVV5mFv/O1JZFHfakeWepsqsGn Wdb01zr+bxmgCP8BKeSZc+9R6MKDgX59nNF2A1VPpZUTi6inKVxAhRCQEQWIwbIjeBJo FB8Hv7HqhjA7IMqaNWCqrMyJ0hCZ3l66Gek/F/Sab4juae86BByiL0CXoAh7nhMSYv8a j0TyjCGfZ7kFRpPTuo9cNye92gCK90hGq7d23hYu0wDHS6OKmq+oRZUz71iHX62hvG0f QICA3lrsy08m2xC+zeg+mX4pW0zJThnZ5avOOUhs601+4S7I/NK13g6SGBbOh2y6mZlG f76w== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.234.15 with SMTP id f15mr21024756qhc.29.1430633750247; Sat, 02 May 2015 23:15:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.213.195 with HTTP; Sat, 2 May 2015 23:15:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 23:15:50 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#20484: 25.0.50; Directory tracking in ansi-term broken. From: Jacob Oursland To: Stefan Monnier Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c12f147cbfa50515276082 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: Glenn Morris , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) --001a11c12f147cbfa50515276082 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Stefan, It made Emacs users like me notice, mainly by previously-working functionality in Emacs breaking. Looking at the old bug report, the $EMACS setting was determined to be obsolete because a few Bash users incorrectly used the $EMACS variable in their scripts. According to the Bash documentation, Bash considers the $EMACS variable to be special and alters its behavior based on the contents. I would argue this indicates that it's the script writers in error and no action should've been taken besides a kind pointer to refer to the Bash manual to the script writers. Regards, Jake --001a11c12f147cbfa50515276082 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Stefan,

It made Emacs users like me not= ice, mainly by previously-working functionality in Emacs breaking.=C2=A0 Lo= oking at the old bug report, the $EMACS setting was determined to be obsole= te because a few Bash users incorrectly used the $EMACS variable in their s= cripts.

According to the Bash documentation, Bash = considers the $EMACS variable to be special and alters its behavior based o= n the contents.=C2=A0 I would argue this indicates that it's the script= writers in error and no action should've been taken besides a kind poi= nter to refer to the Bash manual to the script writers.

Regards,
Jake

--001a11c12f147cbfa50515276082-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 03 12:29:23 2015 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 May 2015 16:29:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60861 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Yowle-0005tI-2r for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 May 2015 12:29:22 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:43255 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Yowlc-0005tA-Iy for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 May 2015 12:29:21 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yowlb-0006GN-Tw; Sun, 03 May 2015 12:29:19 -0400 Date: Sun, 03 May 2015 12:29:19 -0400 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Stefan Monnier In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Monnier on Sun, 03 May 2015 01:45:14 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#20484: 25.0.50; Directory tracking in ansi-term broken. References: X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: jacob.oursland@gmail.com, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: rms@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > Hopefully beaab89896 will make them notice, That is an unfriendly way to treat another free software project (and this one is a GNU package). The problem here is a conflict of conventions between Emacs and Bash. The best way to handle this is by a discussion between the developers on both sides. Have you talked with Chet Ramey to look for the right solution? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 03 13:36:15 2015 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 May 2015 17:36:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60892 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YoxoN-0007YA-6S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 May 2015 13:36:15 -0400 Received: from mail-qc0-f177.google.com ([209.85.216.177]:35082) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YoxoK-0007Xw-Kf for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 May 2015 13:36:13 -0400 Received: by qcbgu10 with SMTP id gu10so22631289qcb.2 for <20484@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 03 May 2015 10:36:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=ZZEYQcZuTHOHrJ3ZXmzAZPAutxhLm6oW5vbyCqf+9Tc=; b=J7F5qhyaZ2w5pq46fxsSwKbi/T6HxOZomgA8A6sF9t7peCi49l2BgZy3x/ANmQmBmJ 7wLT6XfLs3a8qkWPZ9sHyYkHWDchs1O4yQdcbSp2+dJP+PRLsX0j3B41hu7Yyp7orSjp fVxf+Hf56TbXQjwpRGGXySOfhW6V8B6wE8s8kzfrLBWO2ZJQqI7wHXM3Ppd2Sn5mQ2p3 rPIu+dNZJPdw0v54yojBa3PLl3CRzNPcIa3/pGnU6OdSN7i0JcHpJgpA4YPYPSAOqsU8 S873KHlPFTRJkKxASE4AvetvxCJvWtwxtLcgIUwSF6VqgjHcYnt7ZSykY3behuCkAYl6 7/Hg== X-Received: by 10.55.21.166 with SMTP id 38mr37204299qkv.88.1430674567117; Sun, 03 May 2015 10:36:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Jacob Oursland Date: Sun, 03 May 2015 17:36:06 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#20484: 25.0.50; Directory tracking in ansi-term broken. To: rms@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1147efce5cc2c3051530e120 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) --001a1147efce5cc2c3051530e120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 In the mean time, can we revert this commit so that Bash directory tracking will work until a coordinated solution is achieved? Thanks, Jake On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 9:29 AM Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > Hopefully beaab89896 will make them notice, > > That is an unfriendly way to treat another free software project (and > this one is a GNU package). > > The problem here is a conflict of conventions between Emacs and Bash. > The best way to handle this is by a discussion between the developers > on both sides. Have you talked with Chet Ramey to look for the right > solution? > > -- > Dr Richard Stallman > President, Free Software Foundation > 51 Franklin St > Boston MA 02110 > USA > www.fsf.org www.gnu.org > Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. > > --001a1147efce5cc2c3051530e120 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In the mean time, can we revert this commit so that Bash d= irectory tracking will work until a coordinated solution is achieved?

Thanks,
Jake


On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 9:29 AM Richard Stallman <= rms@gnu.org> wrote:
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please con= sider=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]<= br>
=C2=A0 > Hopefully beaab89896 will make them notice,

That is an unfriendly way to treat another free software project (and
this one is a GNU package).

The problem here is a conflict of conventions between Emacs and Bash.
The best way to handle this is by a discussion between the developers
on both sides.=C2=A0 Have you talked with Chet Ramey to look for the right<= br> solution?

--
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation
51 Franklin St
Boston MA 02110
USA
www.fsf.org=C2=A0 www.gnu.org
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.

--001a1147efce5cc2c3051530e120-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 03 13:57:10 2015 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 May 2015 17:57:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60912 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Yoy8c-000846-Et for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 May 2015 13:57:10 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:45100 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Yoy8Z-00083x-PJ for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 May 2015 13:57:08 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yoy8W-0005Nq-Lk; Sun, 03 May 2015 13:57:04 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#20484: 25.0.50; Directory tracking in ansi-term broken. References: X-Spook: oil JSOFC3IP illuminati bomb RSA Uzbekistan Becker AK-47 X-Ran: zp$3mNI9zbnVZXd\[X:aGq$TRxA]$>9HITlkG$hIo]q,R^E_(QK)z>d!+eyr;8WN-T>Li| X-Hue: yellow X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Sun, 03 May 2015 13:57:04 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Sun, 03 May 2015 01:45:14 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: Jacob Oursland , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Stefan Monnier wrote: > The old $EMACS setting was declared obsolete many years ago. It looks > like "the Bash folks" didn't notice yet. > > Hopefully beaab89896 will make them notice, Paul mailed them: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-bash/2015-03/msg00179.html It was applied to the "devel" branch soon after: http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/bash.git/diff/shell.c?h=devel&id=0385211bb5cb01e0259c64ec2c5cc6337d4e215c So, the point has been made, but it will take a long time for this to get into the default bash on all the systems Emacs supports. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 03 15:09:50 2015 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 May 2015 19:09:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60945 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YozGv-0002tT-Fa for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 May 2015 15:09:49 -0400 Received: from mail-qc0-f181.google.com ([209.85.216.181]:35171) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YozGt-0002tG-D9 for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 May 2015 15:09:47 -0400 Received: by qcbgu10 with SMTP id gu10so23190775qcb.2 for <20484@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 03 May 2015 12:09:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:cc :content-type; bh=8PevSciphGGRMivV2Ng2tXqWcONG2VHvInJiFKYqVrw=; b=wrOfqd5X/skb9mSgGa7E4wJ6zN91TwvyyGy3ZOJ+SFC5z9L5xSHvLqpw483eESFzRK kexa9R8BKTDJc1DSjMYSfrxyaSU234HqQeuTJv+wTD3I4C3M3QqQHkDBjSkgNopeBVtH /g7FQMnwAatpTp26ly8TsqF+NYRxGUANht7FPJsJjg+8XQQBZ0cR8Bw0FcCvz9Rxz90D MVALaiRbMTMTxy8CfIZSvI8aKm/JpKz1nlAy1ovFft8kY8gsq3I0LlzkES3pPhFIRjkv bvaUnrIzElUDIG4whipon1F6wYsALHflFisLM+ookb9ThappCdGEWq+EOz2UD38+adjA dp9A== X-Received: by 10.140.148.215 with SMTP id 206mr24674071qhu.62.1430680181961; Sun, 03 May 2015 12:09:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Jacob Oursland Date: Sun, 03 May 2015 19:09:41 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#20484: 25.0.50; Directory tracking in ansi-term broken. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1135dd560879aa0515323058 X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: I see. I misunderstood the master branch to be development, but it's the release branch. Can we compromise a little and revert this patch just until the commit has made into a Bash release? I, like other Emacs users, can afford the risks to run a development Emacs, but I cannot risk a development Bash. [...] Content analysis details: (1.7 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (jacob.oursland[at]gmail.com) -0.7 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, low trust [209.85.216.181 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.2 MISSING_HEADERS Missing To: header 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 1.2 MALFORMED_FREEMAIL Bad headers on message from free email service 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: I see. I misunderstood the master branch to be development, but it's the release branch. Can we compromise a little and revert this patch just until the commit has made into a Bash release? I, like other Emacs users, can afford the risks to run a development Emacs, but I cannot risk a development Bash. [...] Content analysis details: (1.7 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.7 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, low trust [209.85.216.181 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (jacob.oursland[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.2 MISSING_HEADERS Missing To: header 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 1.2 MALFORMED_FREEMAIL Bad headers on message from free email service 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid --001a1135dd560879aa0515323058 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I see. I misunderstood the master branch to be development, but it's the release branch. Can we compromise a little and revert this patch just until the commit has made into a Bash release? I, like other Emacs users, can afford the risks to run a development Emacs, but I cannot risk a development Bash. Thanks, Jake On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 10:57 AM Glenn Morris wrote: > Stefan Monnier wrote: > > > The old $EMACS setting was declared obsolete many years ago. It looks > > like "the Bash folks" didn't notice yet. > > > > Hopefully beaab89896 will make them notice, > > Paul mailed them: > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-bash/2015-03/msg00179.html > > It was applied to the "devel" branch soon after: > > http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/bash.git/diff/shell.c?h=devel&id=0385211bb5cb01e0259c64ec2c5cc6337d4e215c > > So, the point has been made, but it will take a long time for this to > get into the default bash on all the systems Emacs supports. > --001a1135dd560879aa0515323058 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I see.=C2=A0 I misunderstood the master branch to be = development, but it's the release branch.

Can we co= mpromise a little and revert this patch just until the commit has made into= a Bash release? =C2=A0I, like other Emacs users, can afford the risks to run a developme= nt Emacs, but I cannot risk a development Bash.

T= hanks,
Jake


On= Sun, May 3, 2015 at 10:57 AM Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> wrote:
Stefan Monn= ier wrote:

> The old $EMACS setting was declared obsolete many years ago.=C2=A0 It = looks
> like "the Bash folks" didn't notice yet.
>
> Hopefully beaab89896 will make them notice,

Paul mailed them:
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-bash/2015-03/msg0= 0179.html

It was applied to the "devel" branch soon after:
http:= //git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/bash.git/diff/shell.c?h=3Ddevel&id=3D038521= 1bb5cb01e0259c64ec2c5cc6337d4e215c

So, the point has been made, but it will take a long time for this to
get into the default bash on all the systems Emacs supports.
--001a1135dd560879aa0515323058-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 03 22:06:21 2015 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 May 2015 02:06:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32897 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Yp5m1-0005Wi-0C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 May 2015 22:06:21 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:57031) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Yp5lz-0005WV-2w for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 May 2015 22:06:19 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AnEFAGvvdVRFpYts/2dsb2JhbAA3gVOfQYIugQiBdQEBBAFWIwULCw4mEhQYDSQuh2WiEYwhTAMBAoM+AwODbQSjY4RY X-IPAS-Result: AnEFAGvvdVRFpYts/2dsb2JhbAA3gVOfQYIugQiBdQEBBAFWIwULCw4mEhQYDSQuh2WiEYwhTAMBAoM+AwODbQSjY4RY X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.11,557,1422939600"; d="scan'208";a="118164336" Received: from 69-165-139-108.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO fmsmemgm.homelinux.net) ([69.165.139.108]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 03 May 2015 22:06:13 -0400 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 80973AE12D; Sun, 3 May 2015 22:06:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Richard Stallman Subject: Re: bug#20484: 25.0.50; Directory tracking in ansi-term broken. Message-ID: References: Date: Sun, 03 May 2015 22:06:13 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Sun, 03 May 2015 12:29:19 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: jacob.oursland@gmail.com, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) > on both sides. Have you talked with Chet Ramey to look for the right > solution? The right solution is easy: Bash should use $INSIDE_EMACS rather than $EMACS. IOW the right thing to do is to file a bug report to the Bash maintainers telling them they need to use $INSIDE_EMACS rather than $EMACS because $EMACS is finally being retired. I see no reason to revert beaab89896 until bash's master code has been updated to stop using $EMACS. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 03 22:08:06 2015 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 May 2015 02:08:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32905 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Yp5nh-0005Ze-Ai for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 May 2015 22:08:05 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:33864) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Yp5nf-0005ZB-29 for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 May 2015 22:08:03 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgUFAGvvdVRFpYts/2dsb2JhbAA3gVOhb4EIgXUBAQQBViMFCwsOJhIUGA0kiBMJogiMAhxPAwECgz4DAyiDRQSjY4RY X-IPAS-Result: AgUFAGvvdVRFpYts/2dsb2JhbAA3gVOhb4EIgXUBAQQBViMFCwsOJhIUGA0kiBMJogiMAhxPAwECgz4DAyiDRQSjY4RY X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.11,557,1422939600"; d="scan'208";a="118164385" Received: from 69-165-139-108.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO fmsmemgm.homelinux.net) ([69.165.139.108]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 03 May 2015 22:07:57 -0400 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 8BBD9AE12D; Sun, 3 May 2015 22:07:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Glenn Morris Subject: Re: bug#20484: 25.0.50; Directory tracking in ansi-term broken. Message-ID: References: Date: Sun, 03 May 2015 22:07:57 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Sun, 03 May 2015 13:57:04 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: Jacob Oursland , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) > It was applied to the "devel" branch soon after: > http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/bash.git/diff/shell.c?h=devel&id=0385211bb5cb01e0259c64ec2c5cc6337d4e215c > So, the point has been made, but it will take a long time for this to > get into the default bash on all the systems Emacs supports. Good. So we can revert beaab89896 before 25.1. We should still keep it a bit longer, in case some other project has failed to notice the obsolescence of $EMACS. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon May 04 12:15:15 2015 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 May 2015 16:15:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33929 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YpJ1X-0006Bg-0l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 May 2015 12:15:15 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:50969 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YpJ1U-0006BW-Kk for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 May 2015 12:15:12 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YpJ1T-00060e-Jb; Mon, 04 May 2015 12:15:11 -0400 Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 12:15:11 -0400 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Stefan Monnier In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Monnier on Sun, 03 May 2015 22:06:13 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#20484: 25.0.50; Directory tracking in ansi-term broken. References: X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: jacob.oursland@gmail.com, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: rms@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > on both sides. Have you talked with Chet Ramey to look for the right > > solution? > The right solution is easy: Bash should use $INSIDE_EMACS rather > than $EMACS. You may be right, but please talk with him about it. He may agree and fix Bash right away. Or he may show you good reasons for some other solution. Please work together with the Bash maintainers. The way to communicate with other GNU package maintainers is by talking with them constructively -- not by making changes that will lead their users to complain to them. Talking with someone via the public is not a good way to get people working together. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Mar 23 18:15:13 2016 Received: (at 20484-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Mar 2016 22:15:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34870 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1air3Y-0003f9-Rk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 18:15:13 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:33080) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1air3W-0003et-EY for 20484-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 18:15:11 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB3A4160F6E; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 15:15:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id yeMe4jnnVlUl; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 15:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B20AA16112F; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 15:15:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id VbzuyADMpDoD; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 15:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from penguin.cs.ucla.edu (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 945A4160F6E; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 15:15:02 -0700 (PDT) To: Stefan Monnier , 20484-done@debbugs.gnu.org From: Paul Eggert Subject: Re: 25.0.50; Directory tracking in ansi-term broken. Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <56F31566.8000008@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 15:15:02 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------070908080706010701010100" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484-done X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070908080706010701010100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > *From:* Stefan Monnier iro.umontreal.ca> > *Date:* Sun, 03 May 2015 22:07:57 -0400 > > >http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/bash.git/diff/shell.c?h=devel&id=0385211bb5cb01e0259c64ec2c5cc6337d4e215c > > > So, the point has been made, but it will take a long time for this to > > get into the default bash on all the systems Emacs supports. > > Good. So we can revert beaab89896 before 25.1. > We should still keep it a bit longer, in case some other project has > failed to notice the obsolescence of $EMACS. OK, it's been ten months and that should be long enough, so I reverted it in emacs-25 (see attached patch) and am closing this bug report. Yay! One less blocker for Emacs 25! 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(zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 5aPTr7ONwZNq; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:01:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6B38161288; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:01:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id owdY9S1c3l33; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:01:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from penguin.cs.ucla.edu (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B9C5D16124A; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:01:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' To: Phillip Lord References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:01:33 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 04/07/2016 12:35 AM, Phillip Lord wrote: > As a better alternatively, would it be possible to find a solution to > 20484 which does not involve EMACS=t? > > This would both address 20484 and 20202, rather than robbing Peter to pay > Paul. I'm afraid nothing comes to mind. I'll CC: this to both bug reports to see if others have ideas. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 07 11:18:43 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Apr 2016 15:18:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53048 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoBhj-0001pP-6k for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 11:18:43 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:37320) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoBhh-0001p7-9s; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 11:18:41 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:Cc:To:From:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID; bh=3vvUf3RCu/QOkcjltytBxVGIDN0XZAEgoACjCXuK0wE=; b=BucRctQW2rE63KvrJQUy855joY pUBW/yZwZhfXvEGd/8Gao+pNKGYH5ZWuqVf7HHOhZarYq9InSPK8Zk/VMtaM2+Zl/SsaW1Ua20xqn J/7wvMrkbodRErWY6DqSyb0ZoZBcLa/QTGs4fKEG04w7TqY8mzVZuM79HCUCP+puV1dD8qlndmth9 hL3qxVisr7frB+3SKMf8fp8ECtzhqWaS3SbF48llLi/0lMsOAb8jp/rPOOlNLP3FeMmPwqNNYlZvu C/yZwbN1ozD+Ig5ex/ijzEReViOqHenKmlQ6E6BXx99QX70YMOvzIyp/wxlD4gCKX1JrmA8edwwjV PY88mcZg==; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=54943 helo=cloud103.planethippo.com) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1aoBha-003Nzi-Fe; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 16:18:34 +0100 Received: from 77.98.219.118 ([77.98.219.118]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user phillip.lord@russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with HTTP; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 16:18:34 +0100 Message-ID: <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> In-Reply-To: <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 16:18:34 +0100 Subject: Re: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' From: "Phillip Lord" To: "Paul Eggert" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, Phillip Lord X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On Thu, April 7, 2016 4:01 pm, Paul Eggert wrote: > On 04/07/2016 12:35 AM, Phillip Lord wrote: > >> As a better alternatively, would it be possible to find a solution to >> 20484 which does not involve EMACS=t? >> >> >> This would both address 20484 and 20202, rather than robbing Peter to >> pay Paul. >> > I'm afraid nothing comes to mind. I'll CC: this to both bug reports to > see if others have ideas. I can think of several possibilities. In particular, the EMACS=t behaviour of bash should also be replicable with bash -o emacs. I'm happy to try these out and see if it works, so long as the EMACS=t is not considered to be a closed issue for Emacs 25. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 07 11:25:52 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Apr 2016 15:25:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53055 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoBoe-0001zp-6L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 11:25:52 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:46747) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoBoc-0001zY-2d; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 11:25:50 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5A7F161288; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:25:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id DMsSdJVPhVSt; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:25:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06BF2161289; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:25:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id wrq3g7gw18sK; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:25:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from penguin.cs.ucla.edu (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E0EE2161246; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:25:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' To: Phillip Lord References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:25:42 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 04/07/2016 08:18 AM, Phillip Lord wrote: > I can think of several possibilities. In particular, the EMACS=t behaviour > of bash should also be replicable with bash -o emacs. I expect that this problem affects programs other than bash. For example, tcsh 6.19.00 (the latest version of the first other shell that I checked) tests whether EMACS is "t". From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 07 12:02:06 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Apr 2016 16:02:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53093 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoCNi-0002tK-O3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:02:06 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:40134) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoCNg-0002sq-Pf for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:02:04 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoCNb-0004cU-4F for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:01:59 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:37608) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoCMl-0004P7-Nc; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:01:07 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aoCMj-0004aN-Nk; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:01:05 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Paul Eggert Subject: Re: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> X-Spook: cypherpunk offensive information warfare security X-Ran: -;/6|b(hV,G3.XY&Q!r74{\\f3fyCfG8(5|y/^vJGm`u[!Qv>TZ6vs"V,#$'?s#[lQNN_r X-Hue: red X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:01:05 -0400 In-Reply-To: <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:25:42 -0700") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, Phillip Lord X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) Paul Eggert wrote: > On 04/07/2016 08:18 AM, Phillip Lord wrote: >> I can think of several possibilities. In particular, the EMACS=t behaviour >> of bash should also be replicable with bash -o emacs. > I expect that this problem affects programs other than bash. For > example, tcsh 6.19.00 (the latest version of the first other shell > that I checked) tests whether EMACS is "t". IMO this issue is effectively going to be impossible to change. Eg is there any sign of tcsh adapting? How long for that change to make it into the long-term stable release of all major distributions? How many other things need similar changes? Just resign yourself to the fact that EMACS has a not-very useful value inside comint. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 07 12:07:30 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Apr 2016 16:07:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53104 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoCSw-00030w-Iz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:07:30 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:39216) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoCSu-00030f-Uj; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:07:29 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:Cc:To:From:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID; bh=qbKt9+p+YKHVfN+0naqJISpAcaDBdizcyZ3PP7q7EWA=; b=eZ2EgWBs33dDICx2S3bpvAvf2d Kp/0xSGrO5aHffgXSHl4SD30HwUzYD4a0HhtQcUMRT8H2amyjhAbxrGD+uCcj1LlATMTiyZ+xEniV nv+sR51iecvBtTZ/eSSIHYbLlCYx60WuoI9PdNCkI7yucjuWl1bVUWX8xyu7jRINmQCv/vHhuXjW8 MHRerk46A2mAQUS5yGyDv47taCDYQGHaT2+xQErg5INW1PJH6ibzXNb0bcOj8FRWvudIPcbCssZrr IbDBn1dTCybYc9gwd7SCSom7JFmzdWX29+NQ9f1rVJ9IsxIONnXMQWoTikrABBVpwH02Bifn61B0y 9trSh0+Q==; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=56840 helo=cloud103.planethippo.com) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1aoCSo-003Vn3-E1; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 17:07:22 +0100 Received: from 77.98.219.118 ([77.98.219.118]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user phillip.lord@russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with HTTP; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 17:07:22 +0100 Message-ID: <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> In-Reply-To: <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 17:07:22 +0100 Subject: Re: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' From: "Phillip Lord" To: "Paul Eggert" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, Phillip Lord X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On Thu, April 7, 2016 4:25 pm, Paul Eggert wrote: > On 04/07/2016 08:18 AM, Phillip Lord wrote: > >> I can think of several possibilities. In particular, the EMACS=t >> behaviour of bash should also be replicable with bash -o emacs. > I expect that this problem affects programs other than bash. For > example, tcsh 6.19.00 (the latest version of the first other shell that I > checked) tests whether EMACS is "t". Well, I need to scope this. If the issue is tcsh and bash, then I will look at both. I cannot, of course, look at any arbitrary program which might be affected. Phil From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 07 12:26:10 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Apr 2016 16:26:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53116 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoCl0-0003Rc-KG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:26:10 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:53082) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoCky-0003RJ-TF; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:26:09 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AE1116124A; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 09:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id UopfbWwXPfky; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 09:26:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66173161293; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 09:26:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id QxtUgzMcPp0z; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 09:26:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from penguin.cs.ucla.edu (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4E0F016124A; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 09:26:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' To: Phillip Lord References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 09:26:00 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 04/07/2016 09:07 AM, Phillip Lord wrote: > Well, I need to scope this. If the issue is tcsh and bash, then I will > look at both. I cannot, of course, look at any arbitrary program which > might be affected. I think we'd be OK if we work with the "common" shells. But that would include zsh, whose current FAQ says the following: Probably the most reliable way of dealing with this is to look for the environment variable `$EMACS', which is set to `t' in Emacs' shell mode. Putting [[ $EMACS = t ]] && unsetopt zle in your .zshrc should be sufficient. So here it's not merely a matter of fixing zsh, it's also fixing all the users' .zshrc files that are following this (obsolescent) advice. So far we've looked at three shells (bash, tcsh, zsh), and found compatibility issues with all three. This is not a good sign. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 07 12:52:01 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Apr 2016 16:52:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53138 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoDA1-00042D-AH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:52:01 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:59063) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoD9y-00041u-H4; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:51:59 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0CVDQA731xV/wl73mhcDoMChALBFYdLBAICgTw7EgEBAQEBAQGBCkEFg10BAQMBViMQCzQSFBgNJC6ICQjPIwEBCAIBH4s6hQUHhC0FtQQjgjt/WiKCeAEBAQ X-IPAS-Result: A0CVDQA731xV/wl73mhcDoMChALBFYdLBAICgTw7EgEBAQEBAQGBCkEFg10BAQMBViMQCzQSFBgNJC6ICQjPIwEBCAIBH4s6hQUHhC0FtQQjgjt/WiKCeAEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,465,1427774400"; d="scan'208";a="205373381" Received: from 104-222-123-9.cpe.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([104.222.123.9]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP; 07 Apr 2016 12:51:51 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id CC22B64010; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 12:51:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Paul Eggert Subject: Re: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Message-ID: References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:51:51 -0400 In-Reply-To: <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:25:42 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Phillip Lord X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) >> I can think of several possibilities. In particular, the EMACS=t behaviour >> of bash should also be replicable with bash -o emacs. > I expect that this problem affects programs other than bash. For example, > tcsh 6.19.00 (the latest version of the first other shell that I checked) > tests whether EMACS is "t". It's not clear to me what "affects" means here. The problem explicitly reported in 20484 is that directory tracking is "turned off". This doesn't sound particularly terrible (as long as there's an easy way to get back the desired directory tracking). So I think to make an informed decision, we first need to figure out *how* all those shells are affected by having $EMACS be set to something else than "t". Maybe the best solution is to stop messing with $EMACS by default (and hence change the behavior of sub-shells in negative ways for some users), and then provide an easy way for those users to get back the "fully featured" sub-shell they love. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 07 12:59:38 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Apr 2016 16:59:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53143 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoDHO-0004Cv-3Y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:59:38 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:57263) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoDHN-0004Cj-89 for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:59:37 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoDHE-000499-On for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:59:31 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:38708) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoDHE-000495-LY; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:59:28 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2998 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aoDHD-0007nz-QC; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:59:28 -0400 Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 19:59:11 +0300 Message-Id: <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Monnier In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Monnier on Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:51:51 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Stefan Monnier > Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:51:51 -0400 > Cc: Phillip Lord , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, > 20484@debbugs.gnu.org > > Maybe the best solution is to stop messing with $EMACS by default (and > hence change the behavior of sub-shells in negative ways for some > users), and then provide an easy way for those users to get back the > "fully featured" sub-shell they love. I don't think this will satisfy users of those shells. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 07 14:58:19 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Apr 2016 18:58:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53190 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoF8E-0006un-Ru for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 14:58:19 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:44594) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoF8D-0006uV-9E; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 14:58:17 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0CdDQA731xV/wl73mhcgxCEAshgBAICgTw9EAEBAQEBAQGBCkEFg10BAQMBViMQCzQSFBgNJC6ICQjPIwEBCAIBH4s6hQUHhC0FtQQjgjuBWSKCeAEBAQ X-IPAS-Result: A0CdDQA731xV/wl73mhcgxCEAshgBAICgTw9EAEBAQEBAQGBCkEFg10BAQMBViMQCzQSFBgNJC6ICQjPIwEBCAIBH4s6hQUHhC0FtQQjgjuBWSKCeAEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,465,1427774400"; d="scan'208";a="205392698" Received: from 104-222-123-9.cpe.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([104.222.123.9]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP; 07 Apr 2016 14:58:08 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id A5D0B64010; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 14:58:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Message-ID: References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 14:58:07 -0400 In-Reply-To: <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 07 Apr 2016 19:59:11 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) >> Maybe the best solution is to stop messing with $EMACS by default (and >> hence change the behavior of sub-shells in negative ways for some >> users), and then provide an easy way for those users to get back the >> "fully featured" sub-shell they love. > I don't think this will satisfy users of those shells. I don't think "satisfy" is sufficiently well defined to be useful in this conversation. There's clearly a tradeoff to be made between bug#20202 and bug#20484. IOW, right now people who suffer from bug#20202 are not satisfied either. The ideal situation (which I think is the one that we should strive for in the long-run) is to have Emacs not touch the $EMACS var (which will address bug#20202). So the question is how to get there. It will most likely involve a bit of annoyance to some users along the way. But I think replacing $EMACS by $INSIDE_EMACS in their ~/.zshrc, or adding some magic one-liner in their ~/.emacs is a rather minor annoyance. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 07 15:26:15 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Apr 2016 19:26:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53195 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoFZH-0007YS-6u for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 15:26:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:37112) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoFZF-0007YE-7b for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 15:26:13 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoFZ5-0002Yr-M1 for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 15:26:07 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:40561) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoFZ5-0002Ym-IW; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 15:26:03 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3057 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aoFZ4-0002Uo-Ov; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 15:26:03 -0400 Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 22:25:46 +0300 Message-Id: <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Monnier In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Monnier on Thu, 07 Apr 2016 14:58:07 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 14:58:07 -0400 > > >> Maybe the best solution is to stop messing with $EMACS by default (and > >> hence change the behavior of sub-shells in negative ways for some > >> users), and then provide an easy way for those users to get back the > >> "fully featured" sub-shell they love. > > I don't think this will satisfy users of those shells. > > I don't think "satisfy" is sufficiently well defined to be useful in > this conversation. I think it is. > There's clearly a tradeoff to be made between bug#20202 and bug#20484. Experience has taught us that there's no real tradeoff, at least not in the next few years. As long as shells are in use which want EMACS=t, we must leave that in place. We already do as much as we can to alleviate the problems: set INSIDE_EMACS as well, and don't set EMACS=t if it is already set. I don't see what we can possibly do more. > IOW, right now people who suffer from bug#20202 are not satisfied either. They are mostly those who bump into this in Makefile's, where it is relatively easy to switch to another name. It's inconvenient, but easily fixed. By contrast, users of shells cannot always easily change what their shells expect in their sources. > The ideal situation (which I think is the one that we should strive for > in the long-run) is to have Emacs not touch the $EMACS var (which will > address bug#20202). So the question is how to get there. Waiting is the only way I see. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 07 15:55:12 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Apr 2016 19:55:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53224 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoG1I-0008EP-3O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 15:55:12 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:47413) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoG1G-0008E6-Fz; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 15:55:11 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=hizR/H2ZnYYfSS9R9z0PemL84j1MbmmUKTY3CRT0nvM=; b=Sg7UqQLj4uuIck8yzfgbAALtwx U0L6UfcK627lZWwOmgRGr/s50lgtKj4v2oN0dU/WytyCfttjVPdFVa8bGOwWyoEWNnct84WYoZbkE jOl5oiUGfuarBSVklLtjy7MvRCrK1B9absSEddt3ca+nIjsbFn8hLySnUp0bz4aNzIvE6N2SUcM+q WOvr1eM98bgaOQDXhGtDflkFuHH/ugUGwHYV9B7C5WkYrj3mjPdeIQldgzWx0OSzDR2lHfpW5xmJu MtDsKH31Ol2OoAxr1FAphUCu7qerf2i2apKz0MZVfkTwEiv+nAXP3iTJnrMRnYyJai6KleHS78A+X I6ig/WuA==; Received: from cpc1-benw10-2-0-cust373.gate.cable.virginm.net ([77.98.219.118]:59660 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1aoG19-0049Nd-Nn; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 20:55:03 +0100 From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) To: Paul Eggert Subject: Re: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 20:55:02 +0100 In-Reply-To: <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Thu, 7 Apr 2016 09:26:00 -0700") Message-ID: <87egahtcrt.fsf@russet.org.uk> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Paul Eggert writes: > On 04/07/2016 09:07 AM, Phillip Lord wrote: >> Well, I need to scope this. If the issue is tcsh and bash, then I will >> look at both. I cannot, of course, look at any arbitrary program which >> might be affected. > > I think we'd be OK if we work with the "common" shells. But that would include > zsh, whose current FAQ says the following: > > Probably the most reliable way of dealing with this is to look for > the environment variable `$EMACS', which is set to `t' in > Emacs' shell mode. Putting > > [[ $EMACS = t ]] && unsetopt zle > > in your .zshrc should be sufficient. > > So here it's not merely a matter of fixing zsh, it's also fixing all the > users' .zshrc files that are following this (obsolescent) advice. > > So far we've looked at three shells (bash, tcsh, zsh), and found compatibility > issues with all three. This is not a good sign. So, bash has a command line option to achieve the same thing as EMACS=t. I've checked tcsh and as far as I can tell, here, there is no clear solution. EMACS=t is used, and it's deep in the init code. In my hands, directory tracking in tcsh does not work in ansi-term either way. Zsh does not, AFAICT, use EMACS=t (it's hard to be sure searching through the code, since most instances of "emacs" refer to zsh's emulation of Emacs). In fact, though, as the FAQ entry you found shows, zsh actually does this... /* unset zle if using zsh under emacs */ if (!strcmp(term, "emacs")) opts[USEZLE] = 0; which, according to the faq is behaviour from < Emacs-19.29. So, zsh users already explicitly tell their zsh what to do. Possible solutions: 1) For bash, launch with -o emacs, or call set -o emacs after launch. 2) zsh, launch and call unsetopt zle. 3) For tcsh, EMACS=t only needs to be correct during init. So, EMACS=t, launch tcsh, set EMACS=what-ever-it-was-before. 4) Everything else -- move the "call-process" call to a single function which people can advice as they choose. Phil From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 07 17:42:49 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Apr 2016 21:42:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53271 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoHhR-0002LR-3F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 17:42:49 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:51192) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoHhQ-0002LB-0Y; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 17:42:48 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=Kk2r1FXtKbg9mKfc2NPybTvCvCVkCXxYwDxtULg7DVM=; b=VU+VhNT1y+nJu4SGJrDcKKqenk A82Ex9J3I8Vdiid/mgJnhIyEV0TwJiO2xbkGn1J3hNOEB27b9ZjGvuVYddlDprIWxChQ43668SuNS 3LOw2VgmsmMfCYkUygnLwLVuw8ytX+F3kErsQpUj9YUKLWafN1IujpR2PHCGYR1/+zHe26p7Hlhzj vK/eDpLzUqGCW6LJbbYaozs0cl4SoJyTO/wYHgLa4oCb4/NE4U9Dv5GU9GP3GBE2xAya6wx6RqGvE e7RnGyJO0d2CH7eyR12oRBGN683VhAEEj4bq7uNDiv9FWOcjW8WWSrOa5hAM1Iy+56wkJqQfH65Jk vsPbXIDA==; Received: from cpc1-benw10-2-0-cust373.gate.cable.virginm.net ([77.98.219.118]:59917 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1aoHhJ-0000Z6-9v; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 22:42:41 +0100 From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) To: Paul Eggert Subject: Re: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 22:42:40 +0100 In-Reply-To: <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Thu, 7 Apr 2016 09:26:00 -0700") Message-ID: <87a8l5t7sf.fsf@russet.org.uk> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Paul Eggert writes: > On 04/07/2016 09:07 AM, Phillip Lord wrote: >> Well, I need to scope this. If the issue is tcsh and bash, then I will >> look at both. I cannot, of course, look at any arbitrary program which >> might be affected. > > I think we'd be OK if we work with the "common" shells. But that would include > zsh, whose current FAQ says the following: > > Probably the most reliable way of dealing with this is to look for > the environment variable `$EMACS', which is set to `t' in > Emacs' shell mode. Putting > > [[ $EMACS = t ]] && unsetopt zle > > in your .zshrc should be sufficient. > > So here it's not merely a matter of fixing zsh, it's also fixing all the > users' .zshrc files that are following this (obsolescent) advice. > > So far we've looked at three shells (bash, tcsh, zsh), and found compatibility > issues with all three. This is not a good sign. Incidentally, I have looked again at #20484. What ever it is that is supporting the directory tracking, it is not the EMACS=t behaviour of bash, since in ansi-term we have: (format "EMACS=%s (term:%s)" emacs-version term-protocol-version) This usage will happily not break cask, since it was never supported in the first place. On the other hand, directory tracking works just fine in M-x shell in both Emacs-25.0.91, and Emacs-25 head. So, the EMACS=t setting is not an issue there either. And, dir tracking is not an issue at all for M-x compile. This suggests a simple fix: restore beaab89, except for the bit dealing with ansi-term, which remains for the sake of future compatability. Both bug reports are fixed. Anyone launching cask (or the make files Eli Barzilay talked about in #20202) inside ansi-term may still have problems. ansi-term is already exceptional, note, because it does not obey the "don't fiddle with EMACS if EMACS is already set" semantics. Phil From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 07 18:01:47 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Apr 2016 22:01:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53280 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoHzn-0002my-7O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 18:01:47 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:24907) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoHzk-0002mg-UX; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 18:01:46 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0CdDQA731xV/wl73mhcgxCEAshgBAICgTw9EAEBAQEBAQGBCkEFg10BAQMBViMFCws0EhQYDSSINwjPIwEBAQEGAQEBAR6LOoUFB4QtAQS1BCOCO4FZIoJ4AQEB X-IPAS-Result: A0CdDQA731xV/wl73mhcgxCEAshgBAICgTw9EAEBAQEBAQGBCkEFg10BAQMBViMFCws0EhQYDSSINwjPIwEBAQEGAQEBAR6LOoUFB4QtAQS1BCOCO4FZIoJ4AQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,465,1427774400"; d="scan'208";a="205412554" Received: from 104-222-123-9.cpe.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([104.222.123.9]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP; 07 Apr 2016 18:01:38 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id EA8A164239; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 18:01:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Message-ID: References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 18:01:37 -0400 In-Reply-To: <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 07 Apr 2016 22:25:46 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) > in the next few years. As long as shells are in use which want > EMACS=t, we must leave that in place. No, nothing forces us to leave that in place. What is true is: As long as shells are in use which want EMACS=t, we should make sure that the affected users can still get the right behavior > Waiting is the only way I see. We've tried that for about 10 years now. I'd be surprised if another 10 years will make any difference in this respect. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 07 18:20:15 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Apr 2016 22:20:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53292 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoIHf-0003DL-AP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 18:20:15 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:4977) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoIHd-0003D2-PR; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 18:20:14 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0A+FgA731xV/wl73mhcgxCEAoVVwwsEAgKBPD0QAQEBAQEBAYEKQQWDXQEBAwFWIwULCzQSFBgNUogJCM8jAQEBAQYBAQEBHos6hQUHhC0FtQQjgjuBWSKCeAEBAQ X-IPAS-Result: A0A+FgA731xV/wl73mhcgxCEAoVVwwsEAgKBPD0QAQEBAQEBAYEKQQWDXQEBAwFWIwULCzQSFBgNUogJCM8jAQEBAQYBAQEBHos6hQUHhC0FtQQjgjuBWSKCeAEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,465,1427774400"; d="scan'208";a="205414541" Received: from 104-222-123-9.cpe.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([104.222.123.9]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP; 07 Apr 2016 18:20:08 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 3235E64239; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 18:20:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Subject: Re: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Message-ID: References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> <87egahtcrt.fsf@russet.org.uk> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 18:20:08 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87egahtcrt.fsf@russet.org.uk> (Phillip Lord's message of "Thu, 07 Apr 2016 20:55:02 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: Paul Eggert , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) > So, bash has a command line option to achieve the same thing as EMACS=t. or the code can be changed to use $INSIDE_EMACS or the user could tell Emacs to set EMACS=t or the user could upgrade to the (upcoming) next release of Bash. 4 options for Bash, one of them will actually become the default in the future. So Bash is not a big problem here. > I've checked tcsh and as far as I can tell, here, there is no clear > solution. EMACS=t is used, and it's deep in the init code. In my hands, > directory tracking in tcsh does not work in ansi-term either way. So, does anything break if we don't have EMACS=t? It sounds like it's a non-issue. > Zsh does not, AFAICT, use EMACS=t (it's hard to be sure searching > through the code, since most instances of "emacs" refer to zsh's > emulation of Emacs). In fact, though, as the FAQ entry you found shows, > zsh actually does this... > > /* unset zle if using zsh under emacs */ > if (!strcmp(term, "emacs")) > opts[USEZLE] = 0; > > which, according to the faq is behaviour from < Emacs-19.29. Indeed, this code has been useless for many years already since Emacs doesn't set $TERM to "emacs" any more. > So, zsh users already explicitly tell their zsh what to do. So we don't have any evidence that removing EMACS=t will have any effect on Zsh users either. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 08 03:01:07 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 07:01:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53394 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQPj-0008Vl-B0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:01:07 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:54511) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQPi-0008V8-2A for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:01:06 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQPY-0006DJ-Uw for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:01:00 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:55560) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQPY-0006DE-Ry; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:00:56 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3818 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQPX-0005Hp-Qk; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:00:56 -0400 Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 10:00:38 +0300 Message-Id: <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Monnier In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Monnier on Thu, 07 Apr 2016 18:01:37 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 18:01:37 -0400 > > > in the next few years. As long as shells are in use which want > > EMACS=t, we must leave that in place. > > No, nothing forces us to leave that in place. What is true is: > > As long as shells are in use which want EMACS=t, we should make sure > that the affected users can still get the right behavior We will never recover from bug reports if the behavior they want is not the default. > > Waiting is the only way I see. > > We've tried that for about 10 years now. > I'd be surprised if another 10 years will make any difference in > this respect. Maybe so, but I don't see any problem with that. We just tried to make the wait shorter, and see what happened. We should try again in few years, maybe the results will be better then. Hopefully. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 08 03:02:29 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 07:02:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53402 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQR2-00006M-UK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:02:29 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:54996) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQR0-000069-PD for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:02:27 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQQs-0006oQ-1H for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:02:21 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:55588) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQQq-0006nh-Fg; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:02:16 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3819 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQQp-000884-5U; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:02:15 -0400 Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 10:01:59 +0300 Message-Id: <8360vslh20.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) In-reply-to: <87a8l5t7sf.fsf@russet.org.uk> (phillip.lord@russet.org.uk) Subject: Re: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> <87a8l5t7sf.fsf@russet.org.uk> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) > Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 22:42:40 +0100 > Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca > > Incidentally, I have looked again at #20484. What ever it is that is > supporting the directory tracking, it is not the EMACS=t behaviour of > bash, since in ansi-term we have: > > (format "EMACS=%s (term:%s)" emacs-version term-protocol-version) > > This usage will happily not break cask, since it was never supported in > the first place. > > On the other hand, directory tracking works just fine in M-x shell in > both Emacs-25.0.91, and Emacs-25 head. So, the EMACS=t setting is not > an issue there either. And, dir tracking is not an issue at all for M-x > compile. > > This suggests a simple fix: restore beaab89, except for the bit dealing > with ansi-term, which remains for the sake of future compatability. Both > bug reports are fixed. Anyone launching cask (or the make files Eli > Barzilay talked about in #20202) inside ansi-term may still have > problems. > > ansi-term is already exceptional, note, because it does not obey the > "don't fiddle with EMACS if EMACS is already set" semantics. EMACS=t is for the old versions of Bash and other shells that look at that. So your proposal doesn't solve those problems, AFAIU. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 08 03:04:25 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 07:04:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53410 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQSv-00009z-KQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:04:25 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:55805) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQSu-00009n-AW for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:04:24 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQSo-0007dH-96 for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:04:19 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:55630) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQSj-0007cy-N9; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:04:13 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3820 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQSi-0002Ga-PP; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:04:13 -0400 Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 10:03:51 +0300 Message-Id: <834mbclgyw.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) In-reply-to: <87egahtcrt.fsf@russet.org.uk> (phillip.lord@russet.org.uk) Subject: Re: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> <87egahtcrt.fsf@russet.org.uk> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) > Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 20:55:02 +0100 > Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca > > 1) For bash, launch with -o emacs, or call set -o emacs after launch. > 2) zsh, launch and call unsetopt zle. > 3) For tcsh, EMACS=t only needs to be correct during init. So, EMACS=t, > launch tcsh, set EMACS=what-ever-it-was-before. > 4) Everything else -- move the "call-process" call to a single function > which people can advice as they choose. Thanks. Such solution, if it indeed works, could be OK for master, but not for emacs-25. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 08 03:06:15 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 07:06:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53421 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQUh-0000E9-HA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:06:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:56295) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQUf-0000Dv-97 for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:06:13 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQUW-00081V-3l for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:06:08 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:55663) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQUP-00080q-Av; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:05:57 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3821 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQUO-0004W4-Hr; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:05:56 -0400 Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 10:05:41 +0300 Message-Id: <8337qwlgvu.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Monnier In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Monnier on Thu, 07 Apr 2016 18:20:08 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> <87egahtcrt.fsf@russet.org.uk> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Stefan Monnier > Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 18:20:08 -0400 > Cc: Paul Eggert , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, > 20202@debbugs.gnu.org > > So, does anything break if we don't have EMACS=t? > It sounds like it's a non-issue. That's not my conclusion, as I already wrote. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 08 03:34:53 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 07:34:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53445 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQwP-0000v6-I0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:34:53 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.10]:47208) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQwL-0000uk-A0; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:34:49 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3qhB7B4Lz4z3hjjV; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 09:34:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.68]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3qhB796vxhzvhMT; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 09:34:45 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.68]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0I1Z2kaiB79T; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 09:34:44 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Info: akFNY2iLoJrDJ3/64qhZ4H0qs915IDEW33dLun5vprfYe6iIMyM2TSYPQ6j4GO4P Received: from igel.home (ppp-88-217-23-82.dynamic.mnet-online.de [88.217.23.82]) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 09:34:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: by igel.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 6D1042C30F0; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 09:34:44 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab To: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Subject: Re: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> <87egahtcrt.fsf@russet.org.uk> X-Yow: Should I do my BOBBIE VINTON medley? Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:34:44 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87egahtcrt.fsf@russet.org.uk> (Phillip Lord's message of "Thu, 07 Apr 2016 20:55:02 +0100") Message-ID: <87bn5k365n.fsf@linux-m68k.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.92 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: Paul Eggert , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) writes: > 1) For bash, launch with -o emacs, or call set -o emacs after launch. set -o emacs has nothing to do with no_line_editing. Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756 01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 08 09:09:32 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 13:09:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53627 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoWAG-0001q8-4f for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:09:32 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:55381) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoWAD-0001ps-Uf; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:09:30 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=K9IDoLCm57DK76U+uvjRIH1LBDdJ//lIiBbfSrZaftE=; b=Hx7qgu0Hlo2B7pakz/U+83igET 1/1H11YRwH/yiBTEQsy+Z/PyuUJPH9qzC1lUZMHhDVnaGCkDYVapuPmncOmbgSk8ZGDbwezdHfSAR dGY30WL0kVb6PTV1/l3l5gmbLX/2l/ygK3BoT289kj+Gy7+1JUVMOQT78N1w7uQne3S/B/GU10ME3 v19CV8s1zyVOUUYrVui/lzbT/zj71svs/iSHJM5QeE1fBoDBHR/6zGiEgrP5PHmpBecrBtPSA0Ym/ +o47s5hbdEzo3iWsL9QLfePG6dhBp69ioZre7XanakcZVz38tUQrJFwGr+VcYlG6rPdftbv2GagcQ qpiXRBXA==; Received: from janus-nat-128-240-225-60.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.225.60]:49312 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1aoWA6-002KN7-H1; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 14:09:22 +0100 From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) To: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> <87egahtcrt.fsf@russet.org.uk> Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 14:09:22 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Thu, 07 Apr 2016 18:20:08 -0400") Message-ID: <87vb3sjlh9.fsf@russet.org.uk> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: Paul Eggert , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Stefan Monnier writes: >> So, bash has a command line option to achieve the same thing as EMACS=t. > > or the code can be changed to use $INSIDE_EMACS > or the user could tell Emacs to set EMACS=t > or the user could upgrade to the (upcoming) next release of Bash. > > 4 options for Bash, one of them will actually become the default in the > future. So Bash is not a big problem here. So, this turns out to be untrue. Bug #20484 is caused NOT by the lack of EMACS=t. Ansi term sets EMACS="25.0.91.0 (term 0.91)" which is notable not "t". The code which checks this looks like this: running_under_emacs = (emacs != 0) || (term && STREQN (term, "emacs", 5)); running_under_emacs += term && STREQN (term, "eterm", 5) && emacs && strstr (emacs, "term"); which sets running_under_emacs=2 in ansi-term. This is checked later in eval.c. if (running_under_emacs == 2) send_pwd_to_eterm (); /* Yuck */ (the /*Yuck*/ is their comment not mine!). which does this: static void send_pwd_to_eterm () { char *pwd, *f; f = 0; pwd = get_string_value ("PWD"); if (pwd == 0) f = pwd = get_working_directory ("eterm"); fprintf (stderr, "\032/%s\n", pwd); free (f); } In otherwords, bash detects ansi-term specifically, and prints out PWD every command. The workaround to this is (nearly) documented in the headers of term.el. Adding this: cd(){ command cd "$@";printf '\032/%s\n' "$PWD"; } to .bashrc, and directory tracking works in Emacs-21.0.92 (with no EMACS set). The patch to bash that supposedly fixes bash to use INSIDE_EMACS looks like this... diff --git a/shell.c b/shell.c index c0107ff..dc9015d 100644 --- a/shell.c +++ b/shell.c @@ -581,12 +581,13 @@ main (argc, argv, env) emacs = get_string_value ("EMACS"); /* Not sure any emacs terminal emulator sets TERM=emacs any more */ - no_line_editing |= term && (STREQ (term, "emacs")); + no_line_editing |= STREQ (term, "emacs"); no_line_editing |= emacs && emacs[0] == 't' && emacs[1] == '\0' && STREQ (term, "dumb"); + no_line_editing |= get_string_value ("INSIDE_EMACS") != 0; /* running_under_emacs == 2 for `eterm' */ - running_under_emacs = (emacs != 0) || (term && STREQN (term, "emacs", 5)); - running_under_emacs += term && STREQN (term, "eterm", 5) && emacs && strstr (emacs, "term"); + running_under_emacs = (emacs != 0) || STREQN (term, "emacs", 5); + running_under_emacs += STREQN (term, "eterm", 5) && emacs && strstr (emacs, "term"); if (running_under_emacs) gnu_error_format = 1; Which is not the problem in the first place. Future versions of bash won't work either with ansi-term either. There may be outstanding issues -- i.e. "gnu_error_format" is also set, as is "no_line_editing". What practical implications these have for bash under Emacs, I do not know. AFAICT, though, we had no bug reports from users of M-x shell with bash for the year that "EMACS= ". We have a bug report for ansi-term with bash, is all. >> I've checked tcsh and as far as I can tell, here, there is no clear >> solution. EMACS=t is used, and it's deep in the init code. In my hands, >> directory tracking in tcsh does not work in ansi-term either way. > > So, does anything break if we don't have EMACS=t? > It sounds like it's a non-issue. Not in my hands. To get directory tracking in tcsh would require porting the bash fix above. >> Zsh does not, AFAICT, use EMACS=t (it's hard to be sure searching >> through the code, since most instances of "emacs" refer to zsh's >> emulation of Emacs). In fact, though, as the FAQ entry you found shows, >> zsh actually does this... >> >> /* unset zle if using zsh under emacs */ >> if (!strcmp(term, "emacs")) >> opts[USEZLE] = 0; >> >> which, according to the faq is behaviour from < Emacs-19.29. > > Indeed, this code has been useless for many years already since Emacs > doesn't set $TERM to "emacs" any more. > >> So, zsh users already explicitly tell their zsh what to do. > > So we don't have any evidence that removing EMACS=t will have any effect > on Zsh users either. At the moment, I have some evidence from the bash and tcsh that they are doing something with EMACS=t. But I do not, at the moment, know what the practical implications of these something are; loss of dir-tracking is not one of them. Phil From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 08 09:12:23 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 13:12:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53637 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoWD1-0001uP-6U for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:12:23 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:55472) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoWCz-0001u8-7F; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:12:21 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=dgHSylhACihESK4DLHBClIu8qXqfFvi6Suj2s+t1hLI=; b=idGGpTfbRsZEnN88yLuVYfA8VW Tu15/qH21W5D3Y1b6NFNUktI/yIPHTVmnj/vpyjhhzXidVoCTVU+L31CUk+wqQyuRi2lrDpRP5siy Rz0R7iFF30kxagiMiR/5/PnoW/DG6MNnWZwq4ehAogBIlrRF6GGNWJNUn3sBCpCz7+iznSOiUQ674 /Cat0gWGzLKWBQiFnqerp5sYYqhiBaHzn++wdVUN95aIiclPEfZZ1itrvVJXGlrSdsE44ohEHJmhA WNzDYTePKAFgWy7hwI+fEjVQy/TbSyBld+b42staQ4+W+s0iQc7aDxoMRofniFnu8HAmpLTwJoieD +xvhOudg==; Received: from janus-nat-128-240-225-60.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.225.60]:41990 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1aoWCo-002Kns-Ot; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 14:12:10 +0100 From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) To: Andreas Schwab Subject: Re: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> <87egahtcrt.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87bn5k365n.fsf@linux-m68k.org> Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 14:12:09 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87bn5k365n.fsf@linux-m68k.org> (Andreas Schwab's message of "Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:34:44 +0200") Message-ID: <87r3egjlcm.fsf@russet.org.uk> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: Paul Eggert , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Andreas Schwab writes: > phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) writes: > >> 1) For bash, launch with -o emacs, or call set -o emacs after launch. > > set -o emacs has nothing to do with no_line_editing. Apologies, you are correct. It is emacs line_editing mode. As it turns out, but #20202 is not actually related to line_editing_mode anyway. Phil From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 08 09:15:18 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 13:15:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53649 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoWFq-0001zK-28 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:15:18 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:55555) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoWFo-0001z3-AJ; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:15:16 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=I4Uuhvd2bLiW6YFmxvHc2xjt/dQmoAYhXXcAswHIYjU=; b=DxSHdCzhXqMs5XCFcPvZMvwWyw dcXBi/Amj3iuzULzr+SS3ALVjCPLEA0PRJmmsvQzIdS5NRKWGbw5l+iKo1inNJiygtqCkW8HJXsO9 SNF7Id/xB2ZEd5XPq4ukpljKInTtzMQvxHvpWk/vFY1FPvBZhybxGEhsnP0epPm8f94lgn7WUs3ql PasKUsIOmLXqFcaP5rakrrZIX6E1CyWg0hzeZgUSPqO1EOCc84TSdVDwv5IXljj8dbCbg8sBx+J5H b7xGGrhyOTpukY8hBBOdb36Gc64qVneYsyeAgpB63yzGynkCkjWty6IUzAh7R8ymSkbSYZIm78XCt dQf7vYIw==; Received: from janus-nat-128-240-225-60.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.225.60]:49298 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1aoWFi-002LQE-GV; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 14:15:10 +0100 From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 14:15:07 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 07 Apr 2016 22:25:46 +0300") Message-ID: <87mvp4jl7o.fsf@russet.org.uk> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, Stefan Monnier , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Stefan Monnier >> Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 14:58:07 -0400 >> >> >> Maybe the best solution is to stop messing with $EMACS by default (and >> >> hence change the behavior of sub-shells in negative ways for some >> >> users), and then provide an easy way for those users to get back the >> >> "fully featured" sub-shell they love. >> > I don't think this will satisfy users of those shells. >> >> I don't think "satisfy" is sufficiently well defined to be useful in >> this conversation. > > I think it is. > >> There's clearly a tradeoff to be made between bug#20202 and bug#20484. > > Experience has taught us that there's no real tradeoff, at least not > in the next few years. As long as shells are in use which want > EMACS=t, we must leave that in place. Both zsh and bash also check TERM=emacs, which isn't set. > They are mostly those who bump into this in Makefile's, where it is > relatively easy to switch to another name. It's inconvenient, but > easily fixed. By contrast, users of shells cannot always easily > change what their shells expect in their sources. Should we patch the Emacs makefiles to stop making use of $(EMACS) then? Phil From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 08 09:40:44 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 13:40:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53657 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoWeS-0002a0-8P for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:40:44 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:37981) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoWeP-0002Zk-SD for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:40:42 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoWeH-0005Ns-6u for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:40:36 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:45107) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoWeH-0005Ni-0S; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:40:33 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4546 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aoWeG-0002Lt-7o; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:40:32 -0400 Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 16:40:06 +0300 Message-Id: <83bn5kjk21.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) In-reply-to: <87mvp4jl7o.fsf@russet.org.uk> (phillip.lord@russet.org.uk) Subject: Re: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <87mvp4jl7o.fsf@russet.org.uk> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) > Cc: Stefan Monnier , eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 14:15:07 +0100 > > > They are mostly those who bump into this in Makefile's, where it is > > relatively easy to switch to another name. It's inconvenient, but > > easily fixed. By contrast, users of shells cannot always easily > > change what their shells expect in their sources. > > Should we patch the Emacs makefiles to stop making use of $(EMACS) then? Yes. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 08 11:33:17 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 15:33:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54748 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYPN-00077Y-AU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:33:17 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:34716) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYPL-00077K-VW for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:33:16 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYPB-0007Wt-Lu for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:33:10 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:46633) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYOJ-0007Hq-1q; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:32:11 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYOH-0004xC-2f; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:32:09 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spook: threat Drill Radioactive Cartel Shots fired anarchy Red X-Ran: >~qviXdj7&Q`u9.w[\@X3b$A:jm'0h8c!mQSD`"DL3(!4'h7q4;?S'Y3*F8u%=B_uQouJ, X-Hue: yellow X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:32:08 -0400 In-Reply-To: <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 08 Apr 2016 10:00:38 +0300") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, Stefan Monnier , phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Maybe so, but I don't see any problem with that. We just tried to > make the wait shorter, and see what happened. We should try again in > few years, maybe the results will be better then. Hopefully. Waiting won't do anything. One should actively contact maintainers of affected packages. It's our fault, not theirs. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 08 11:46:07 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 15:46:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54768 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYbn-00005m-DN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:46:07 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:37946) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYbl-0008Qa-TJ for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:46:06 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYbg-00031U-6h for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:46:00 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:46807) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYar-0002qf-2P; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:45:09 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYap-0003IN-Rq; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:45:07 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <87mvp4jl7o.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83bn5kjk21.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spook: Whitehouse Echelon Mena NORAD subversive Extremism X-Ran: ;5o2zOWp@tTmhyS1B(NFNYJiO~iG*eoZ3w2%C0]t2b{% (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 08 Apr 2016 16:40:06 +0300") Message-ID: <8br3eg85q4.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, Phillip Lord X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Should we patch the Emacs makefiles to stop making use of $(EMACS) then? > > Yes. Why? Emacs builds fine with "EMACS=blah" in the environment, since it explicitly sets EMACS as needed. The only issue here is with Makefiles that use their environment unsanitised. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 08 12:00:37 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 16:00:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54781 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYpp-00012V-6R for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:00:37 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:41526) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYpo-00012J-6X for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:00:36 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYpf-0006tU-7l for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:00:31 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:47077) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYpS-0006r8-Fq; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:00:14 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4641 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYpR-0002Le-4B; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:00:13 -0400 Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 18:59:43 +0300 Message-Id: <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Glenn Morris In-reply-to: (message from Glenn Morris on Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:32:08 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Glenn Morris > Cc: Stefan Monnier , phillip.lord@russet.org.uk, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:32:08 -0400 > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > Maybe so, but I don't see any problem with that. We just tried to > > make the wait shorter, and see what happened. We should try again in > > few years, maybe the results will be better then. Hopefully. > > Waiting won't do anything. One should actively contact maintainers of > affected packages. It's our fault, not theirs. We already did. "Waiting" here means wait until the old versions of the shells die peacefully and people stop using them. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 08 12:01:58 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 16:01:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54786 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYr8-00014m-HK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:01:58 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:42145) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYr7-00014Z-1o for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:01:57 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYr1-0007Hp-8g for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:01:52 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:47135) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYqw-0007Gb-Vy; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:01:47 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4642 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYqs-0004n3-Qg; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:01:44 -0400 Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 19:01:13 +0300 Message-Id: <834mbcjdiu.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Glenn Morris In-reply-to: <8br3eg85q4.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (message from Glenn Morris on Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:45:07 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <87mvp4jl7o.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83bn5kjk21.fsf@gnu.org> <8br3eg85q4.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Glenn Morris > Cc: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord), 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca > Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:45:07 -0400 > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > >> Should we patch the Emacs makefiles to stop making use of $(EMACS) then? > > > > Yes. > > Why? Because it's safer, and doesn't do any harm. I agree it isn't the utmost urgency, though. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 08 12:46:53 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 16:46:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54808 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoZYa-00028C-Tn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:46:53 -0400 Received: from pruche.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.22]:38126) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoZYY-00027z-Ap; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:46:51 -0400 Received: from fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by pruche.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.7/8.14.1) with ESMTP id u38GkZcM021305; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 12:46:36 -0400 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id BE216AE324; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 12:46:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Message-ID: References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:46:35 -0400 In-Reply-To: <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 08 Apr 2016 10:00:38 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV5636=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <5636> : inlines <4656> : streams <1616116> : uri <2182476> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > We will never recover from bug reports if the behavior they want is > not the default. The problem in bug#20484 is not due to a wrong behavior in Emacs but to a wrong behavior in shells (or at the very least a bad interaction between the two), so there's no point trying to "fix it" on our side only, since that just introduces other bugs (witness bug#20202). Regarding bug#20484 as pointed out by Philip Lord we can address it without breaking bug#20484 by only reverting the behavior in ansi-term. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 08 12:49:07 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 16:49:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54815 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoZak-0002Bi-Hg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:49:07 -0400 Received: from pruche.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.22]:38268) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoZai-0002BY-QH; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:49:05 -0400 Received: from fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by pruche.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.7/8.14.1) with ESMTP id u38Gn2Xt021422; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 12:49:02 -0400 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 475EAAE324; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 12:49:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Message-ID: References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> <87a8l5t7sf.fsf@russet.org.uk> <8360vslh20.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:49:02 -0400 In-Reply-To: <8360vslh20.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 08 Apr 2016 10:01:59 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV5636=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <5636> : inlines <4656> : streams <1616117> : uri <2182477> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Phillip Lord X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > EMACS=t is for the old versions of Bash and other shells that look at > that. What change in behavior has been observed by removing EMACS=t from comint? As far as I can tell, nobody has reported any change of behavior yet. Bug#20484 is about another removal (the one in ansi-term), so it's actually not relevant. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 08 13:12:22 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 17:12:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54851 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoZxG-0002mg-C2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 13:12:22 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:56098) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoZxE-0002mP-SJ; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 13:12:21 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 272AD16124C; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 10:12:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 3Hk0jq2fPP6M; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 10:12:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FEC816128D; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 10:12:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id BCvCdXO5I2vb; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 10:12:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from penguin.cs.ucla.edu (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 52AF716124C; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 10:12:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' To: Stefan Monnier , Eli Zaretskii References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <5707E66A.1080302@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 10:12:10 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 04/08/2016 09:46 AM, Stefan Monnier wrote: > Regarding bug#20484 as pointed out by Philip Lord we can address it > without breaking bug#20484 by only reverting the behavior in ansi-term. Yes, this is the direction I'm heading as well. Thanks, Philip, for doing all the legwork on other shells. As Philip implies, Bash will need another fix before Bash 4.4 goes out, and I'm working on that now. I'll CC: here. What a mess, eh? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 08 13:48:08 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 17:48:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54864 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoaVr-0003fe-Os for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 13:48:08 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:36866) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoaVp-0003f6-W2; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 13:48:06 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:Cc:To:From:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID; bh=zwutknEK94Her3Luu3kfGqXCk4iwDmCIrPSGYlN54Tg=; b=r2gxR6O9Af2OrUiHe/UA1d0O3T 4KavC129L1Sk5ycZEIWH6XA9LhJ3T/1R90mDphIZByTdanCmPIOBVPtGR27hxs2YPhxXHW9AFTDeZ oh/kj15E+YdwP7fn9ZalZgw4MVfmF+33gj0CZYfmeur/hEDk4G6gppLzrBeiDuLLR6+3JzzzqUtMM I0hTjXmOlhtp4Tk0sB7V/r5b+aE0KtBt7SzyKeCbh3ySWmFHz7OhyLzvQ9O4sAsbAFS23Bun6/7xd gQMy9XVJWKUOqiWAJGZ9yZ/lovo0MQXxiyTYR/n0z4mHwkXM6QrWZGpLnJ9DbCsBAGOfjNIWfg9Ai Att9RMUw==; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=54488 helo=cloud103.planethippo.com) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1aoaVi-0033wv-V2; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 18:47:59 +0100 Received: from 77.98.219.118 ([77.98.219.118]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user phillip.lord@russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with HTTP; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 18:47:59 +0100 Message-ID: <8e2b6ff6716e9e7c77a1b6794edbfef3.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> In-Reply-To: References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 18:47:59 +0100 Subject: Re: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' From: "Phillip Lord" To: "Stefan Monnier" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On Fri, April 8, 2016 5:46 pm, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> We will never recover from bug reports if the behavior they want is >> not the default. > > The problem in bug#20484 is not due to a wrong behavior in Emacs but to > a wrong behavior in shells (or at the very least a bad interaction between > the two), so there's no point trying to "fix it" on our side only, since > that just introduces other bugs (witness bug#20202). I think the problem, at heart, stems from bash trying do the right thing for Emacs. This is not made any easier by the fact that Emacs needs different things, depending on whether we are in shell or ansi-term. Really, Emacs should just explicitly request which features it needs, rather than saying "I am Emacs, now be right". > Regarding bug#20484 as pointed out by Philip Lord we can address it > without breaking bug#20484 by only reverting the behavior in ansi-term. And there is a simple workaround should we wish for consistent EMACS behaviour in shell and term, which can be applied with in .bashrc or having Emacs inject a command into the new shell. It's "Phillip" actually --- the misspelling is one of the reasons I normally go by "Phil". From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 08 14:12:54 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 18:12:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54906 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoatq-0004KS-Iz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 14:12:54 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:37698) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoato-0004K9-4c; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 14:12:52 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:Cc:To:From:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID; bh=f8SJ/iVCaJbkDnyMOW1Lq12XGTWSSgICndATg9aCSPw=; b=dGvSLWgOp8UYNNpALb1core+og k5OXstOF63lmyx7QSh1hln+i45NGmzFKkmWlRq9MTZfZejvDCSR+CRSlHrqk+AZzGxLb+jeFQKayp jpy88hvgh4rlM5xLCOCWW5mfPVQ2ynaBo8q54k3sOlpOaG4lP7x0Ltq4Zm5R5Nl5itBCa3ribevqm E5iLtrP48tIc4g4hU5jigHtocy7xA2uQ/r1aIyBFeLooHV/DEtHI04WJ2xeMYFz2QtS9iipqKmawH xoWJesBBWUlVBte5BqykVByOaXYFbsmrKmmu3WVAcXxSIQ5xDZQv2agP5jyOwxOtdTKz6wO8BbTdO 87eCIPKw==; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=55322 helo=cloud103.planethippo.com) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1aoati-0038CE-1o; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 19:12:46 +0100 Received: from 77.98.219.118 ([77.98.219.118]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user phillip.lord@russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with HTTP; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 19:12:46 +0100 Message-ID: <35b450994560478a5bb6f8de5be501a9.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> In-Reply-To: References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> <87a8l5t7sf.fsf@russet.org.uk> <8360vslh20.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 19:12:46 +0100 Subject: Re: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' From: "Phillip Lord" To: "Stefan Monnier" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Phillip Lord X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On Fri, April 8, 2016 5:49 pm, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> EMACS=t is for the old versions of Bash and other shells that look at >> that. > > What change in behavior has been observed by removing EMACS=t from > comint? > > As far as I can tell, nobody has reported any change of behavior yet. > I worried about this -- why did line-editing not cause problems, given that it is this that EMACS=t disables. So I tested this by doing this: bind -x '"\C-r"':reset which gives a warning bash: bind: warning: line editing not enabled It turns out that M-x shell gives a warning in emacs-25 head AND emacs-25.0.91. So it appears that the bash EMACS=t handling is redundant, at least with respect to line editing. M-x shell passed --noediting through explicit-bash-args. Phil From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 08 14:14:23 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 18:14:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54912 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoavG-0004NK-Ru for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 14:14:23 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:37764) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoavF-0004N4-GI; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 14:14:21 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:Cc:To:From:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID; bh=tXScpTZk/g4ds9Db9yCnBQDJRxodu0b+0FYgkk/FM3E=; b=G5zcUFJ413Kwzwf6hZ3Rhu87EF /tDI7SJy3G2YuJyksb2IgRfouzQdkl+RSQ20ICXbIGTV5VrSuen/H7Wv6kOvqjsj0AHPuD3PRB0zX U2/afi6NWbVjkLDH8VjnN/EEcdCUWbtiaDAirwlnQcXSNlAfM8cBcX50V1oG/pVvEKuAusWujGGrv xTnKyOCrILHoFggdplr4+nsBNeEXeMn5NU55jDbcUjbLvLnhHFu3AQW5TVYSZa8e5DiLYt8ZylEPZ Vx9L7ysHNFFqqWBLLqPQSKp0X7y01o4hyfnntbH4ZOtINeDLYenzRJGA5AgCvsGqfezWAlKe5oiaD A165yoUA==; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=55386 helo=cloud103.planethippo.com) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1aoav9-0038Xf-Ge; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 19:14:15 +0100 Received: from 77.98.219.118 ([77.98.219.118]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user phillip.lord@russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with HTTP; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 19:14:15 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5707E66A.1080302@cs.ucla.edu> References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <5707E66A.1080302@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 19:14:15 +0100 Subject: Re: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' From: "Phillip Lord" To: "Paul Eggert" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On Fri, April 8, 2016 6:12 pm, Paul Eggert wrote: > On 04/08/2016 09:46 AM, Stefan Monnier wrote: > >> Regarding bug#20484 as pointed out by Philip Lord we can address it >> without breaking bug#20484 by only reverting the behavior in ansi-term. > > Yes, this is the direction I'm heading as well. Thanks, Philip, for > doing all the legwork on other shells. As Philip implies, Bash will need > another fix before Bash 4.4 goes out, and I'm working on that now. I'll > CC: here. > > > What a mess, eh? A whole set of decisions which, individually, make sense all conspiring to produce a disaster. Phil From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 08 14:47:40 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 18:47:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54936 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aobRU-0005H5-KX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 14:47:40 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:34705) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aobRS-0005Gk-1c; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 14:47:38 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A170160068; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 11:47:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 0bkl6ANzREcK; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 11:47:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37D3C1601ED; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 11:47:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id XulE7s1aopCV; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 11:47:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from penguin.cs.ucla.edu (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 177CB160D71; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 11:47:31 -0700 (PDT) To: chet@cwru.edu, bash-testers@cwru.edu From: Paul Eggert Subject: Bash 4.4-rc1 incompatibility with future Emacs $EMACS Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <5707FCC2.3050807@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 11:47:30 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------010400060103040103010401" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , Phillip Lord X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010400060103040103010401 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Configuration Information [Automatically generated, do not change]: Machine: x86_64 OS: linux-gnu Compiler: gcc Compilation CFLAGS: -DPROGRAM='bash' -DCONF_HOSTTYPE='x86_64' -DCONF_OSTYPE='linux-gnu' -DCONF_MACHTYPE='x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu' -DCONF_VENDOR='unknown' -DLOCALEDIR='/tmp/prefix/share/locale' -DPACKAGE='bash' -DSHELL -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -DDEBUG -DMALLOC_DEBUG -I. -I. -I./include -I./lib -g -O2 -Wno-parentheses -Wno-format-security uname output: Linux penguin.cs.ucla.edu 4.4.6-300.fc23.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Mar 16 22:10:37 UTC 2016 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux Machine Type: x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu Bash Version: 4.4 Patch Level: 0 Release Status: rc1 Description: Please see attached patch. Repeat-By: Please see attached patch. Fix: Please see attached patch. --------------010400060103040103010401 Content-Type: application/x-patch; name="0001-Fix-compatibility-problem-with-INSIDE_EMACS-etc.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename*0="0001-Fix-compatibility-problem-with-INSIDE_EMACS-etc.patch" RnJvbSA3NWQ0MDlmNDNkMDlkMTMyMzQxNmRiOTAxMjFiYzZiZjU0Y2JjM2ZmIE1vbiBTZXAg MTcgMDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBQYXVsIEVnZ2VydCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1 PgpEYXRlOiBGcmksIDggQXByIDIwMTYgMTE6MjI6MzkgLTA3MDAKU3ViamVjdDogW1BBVENI XSBGaXggY29tcGF0aWJpbGl0eSBwcm9ibGVtIHdpdGggSU5TSURFX0VNQUNTIGV0Yy4KClRo ZSBjaGVja3MgZm9yIGRlY2lkaW5nIHdoZXRoZXIgYmFzaCBpcyBiZWluZyBydW4gaW4gYSBH TlUgRW1hY3Mgc2hlbGwKd2luZG93IGhhdmUgYmVlbiB0d2Vha2VkIHRvIGJldHRlciBzdXBw b3J0IGhvdyB0aGUgZnV0dXJlIHZlcnNpb25zIG9mCkVtYWNzIHdpbGwgc2V0IGVudmlyb25t ZW50IHZhcmlhYmxlcy4KCkhlcmUgYXJlIGRldGFpbHMgYWJvdXQgdGhlIHByb2JsZW0uICBC YXNoJ3MgaGV1cmlzdGljIHRoYXQgaW5mZXJzCndoZXRoZXIgQmFzaCBpcyBiZWluZyBydW4g 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from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0244F1601ED; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 13:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id ub8PJYU9EIHs; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 13:50:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08177160E3C; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 13:50:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id Nqup17SJdW3k; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 13:50:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from penguin.cs.ucla.edu (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DB6F91601ED; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 13:50:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' To: Phillip Lord , Stefan Monnier References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> <87egahtcrt.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87vb3sjlh9.fsf@russet.org.uk> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <5708198F.6090005@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 13:50:23 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87vb3sjlh9.fsf@russet.org.uk> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------030802040308060903070907" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030802040308060903070907 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for persisting with this, Phillip, and for doing the legwork in seeing what other shells do. It does seem that the EMACS='t' setting can safely be removed, given what we've seen. We will still need the EMACS='25.1 (term:0.96)' setting in term-exec-1 for quite some time, for compatibility with Bash 4.3 and earlier. I installed the attached patch into emacs-25 to try to get this done for the next release. This should not affect Bug#20484, which should still be fixed. Most of Bug#20202 should be fixed now; the exceptions are M-x term and the like. --------------030802040308060903070907 Content-Type: application/x-patch; name="0001-Comint-and-compile-no-longer-set-EMACS.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-Comint-and-compile-no-longer-set-EMACS.patch" RnJvbSBjMmUyNDI4YjM1NTExMDZlNGJhMTRhMTIzNjE3NDQ5Y2JjYjVjYTVlIE1vbiBTZXAg MTcgMDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBQYXVsIEVnZ2VydCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1 PgpEYXRlOiBGcmksIDggQXByIDIwMTYgMTM6Mzk6MTcgLTA3MDAKU3ViamVjdDogW1BBVENI XSBDb21pbnQgYW5kIGNvbXBpbGUgbm8gbG9uZ2VyIHNldCBFTUFDUwpNSU1FLVZlcnNpb246 IDEuMApDb250ZW50LVR5cGU6IHRleHQvcGxhaW47IGNoYXJzZXQ9VVRGLTgKQ29udGVudC1U cmFuc2Zlci1FbmNvZGluZzogOGJpdAoKVGhpcyBtb3N0bHkgcmVzdG9yZXMgdGhlIGNoYW5n ZSB0aGF0IEkgcmV2ZXJ0ZWQgb24gTWFyY2ggMjMsCmZpeGluZyBtb3N0IG9mIEJ1ZyMyMDIw Mi4gIFRoZSBvbmx5IHBhcnQgb2YgdGhlIGNoYW5nZSB0aGF0IGlzCnN0aWxsIHJldmVydGVk IGlzIHRoZSBjaGFuZ2UgdG8gTS14IHRlcm0sIHdoZXJlIGNvbXBhdGliaWxpdHkgd2l0aApj 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cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:43914) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aodpc-0000Xp-Ra; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 17:20:45 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=LothGMhbboDd8wlGMQ29Rm8FzaJmM0MVBktoCyQ1RLM=; b=rCDm0nP71dRtfS9YOKnZBOswd+ WKqsZPuhxGHCt+jGSamXASmS2Ek5937A1lm/efg631VlHSC/A/3TUVVAwsZJuuRvVLzdTf0AP5Wer rgyFdF29X7XwI0rCSboyxRF+DQfU4eEhnqIbbeJbo5efoDIlgoCwnRKln3g/vsyWheV5ZnEqkBQp6 IbVoxeu+lwulZLJJR5xnsuawF+SDVNCCuao0HgRPUP3vRZ+zFW3IgQMzdXUx9WTxnSuwEq4wBy/T0 BEEIVTbrWFUAHgxd3k4FsgmVasheG8+X9327F5P6pK+xIAggLtJKhUAooS5MpA2MHtQuAngwFELX2 PF/YFVdA==; Received: from cpc1-benw10-2-0-cust373.gate.cable.virginm.net ([77.98.219.118]:34870 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1aodpV-003dEG-E4; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 22:20:37 +0100 From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) To: Paul Eggert Subject: Re: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> <87egahtcrt.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87vb3sjlh9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5708198F.6090005@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 22:20:34 +0100 In-Reply-To: <5708198F.6090005@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Fri, 8 Apr 2016 13:50:23 -0700") Message-ID: <87a8l33ihp.fsf@russet.org.uk> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Paul Eggert writes: > Thanks for persisting with this, Phillip, and for doing the legwork in seeing > what other shells do. No worries, and apologies for being somewhat grumpy at the start. We seem to have a solution now, which is the main thing. > It does seem that the EMACS='t' setting can safely be removed, given > what we've seen. We will still need the EMACS='25.1 (term:0.96)' > setting in term-exec-1 for quite some time, for compatibility with > Bash 4.3 and earlier. I installed the attached patch into emacs-25 to > try to get this done for the next release. This should not affect > Bug#20484, which should still be fixed. Most of Bug#20202 should be > fixed now; the exceptions are M-x term and the like. I think this is a good compromise. Although, it's too late for Emacs 25.1, it would be possible to work around #20484 in other ways, and maybe get dir-tracking working for other shells also. Phil From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 08 22:25:35 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Apr 2016 02:25:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55068 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoiad-0002qF-EX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 22:25:35 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:35996) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoiab-0002q2-MS for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 22:25:34 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoiaV-0001AF-Bj for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 22:25:28 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,RP_MATCHES_RCVD, UNRESOLVED_TEMPLATE autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:58989) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoiZl-00014L-5I; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 22:24:41 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aoiZk-0006cp-5Q; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 22:24:40 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spook: Juarez Authorities Emergency response Cyber terror Stuck X-Ran: $]RJynR2R".-_otS'\j User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Waiting won't do anything. One should actively contact maintainers of >> affected packages. It's our fault, not theirs. > > We already did. Please note that the list of affected applications may include things other than shells; eg http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-pretest-bug/2006-11/msg00035.html http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-pretest-bug/2006-11/msg00084.html http://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/man?section=flags "SWI-Prolog assumes this is the case if the environment variable EMACS is t" Since it is impossible to construct the definitive list of affected applications, that is why I am personally pessimistic about being able to change this without use of Emacs SOP: change it and see what breaks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 09 04:43:18 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Apr 2016 08:43:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55139 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aooUA-0005Ax-4V for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 04:43:18 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:37460) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aooU8-0005Ah-4X; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 04:43:16 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:Cc:To:From:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID; bh=JVz76sMXTSrhlEe+GvRTMGXmyr6E6XvO0lnoBDTTCJ4=; b=OqoOnyDvD6yLbv2bHfMSiRhpPk CJWhk7nMg/JkE08duMOCXzBe/mfxKUw2qSPjpOe+z4tyzaZrnjRdqbOlGqvaIS4A5dH5mJsTw4cht odtOe++KSVGNRXUq1ZLLGSdszXk1KLICOYfkH/D+makMlMKxvVCnzdO76PQUNxxSgf9bsfM6kVeHk PgOOmX3yJsRVC2Da9hjdRANWad9K4U4v9rbx02A3EaXntM3dTRywDWKn8P9yptv/mYCgtStA3tVe6 dTVJ4SOsjMwm9vjYHtuLeR2BHu/0JMKF7yS39YtSrYoZL0dJZigYaqFr+Gbl736N4n5wTLuLMmKaI 6DIirOOg==; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=55081 helo=cloud103.planethippo.com) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1aooU1-000w3M-Oi; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 09:43:09 +0100 Received: from 77.98.219.118 ([77.98.219.118]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user phillip.lord@russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with HTTP; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 09:43:09 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 09:43:09 +0100 Subject: Re: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' From: "Phillip Lord" To: "Glenn Morris" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , phillip.lord@russet.org.uk, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On Sat, April 9, 2016 3:24 am, Glenn Morris wrote: > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Please note that the list of affected applications may include things > other than shells; eg > > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-pretest-bug/2006-11/msg00035.html > > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-pretest-bug/2006-11/msg00084.html > > > http://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/man?section=flags > "SWI-Prolog assumes this is the case if the environment variable EMACS > is t" > > Since it is impossible to construct the definitive list of affected > applications, that is why I am personally pessimistic about being able to > change this without use of Emacs SOP: change it and see what breaks. So SWI-Prolog does still do this... if ( ((s = Getenv("EMACS", envbuf, sizeof(envbuf))) && s[0]) || ((s = Getenv("INFERIOR", envbuf, sizeof(envbuf))) && streq(s, "yes")) ) although, AFAICT, it just checks for EMACS=anything at all, so it's possible to workaround this in a way consistent with EMACS=location-of-emacs. I'll contact them. Phil From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 09 09:43:56 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Apr 2016 13:43:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55255 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aotB6-0005gA-JL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 09:43:56 -0400 Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:54186) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aotB4-0005fz-T2; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 09:43:55 -0400 Received: from fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id u39DiPjl029493; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 09:44:25 -0400 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 3D7AFAE324; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 09:43:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Glenn Morris Subject: Re: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Message-ID: References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 09:43:42 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Fri, 08 Apr 2016 22:24:40 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.2 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 2 Rules triggered TRK_NCM1=0.2, RV5637=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <5637> : inlines <4656> : streams <1616576> : uri <2183071> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > http://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/man?section=flags > "SWI-Prolog assumes this is the case if the environment variable EMACS > is t" And here again, the page doesn't actually describe what would be the consequence of a missing EMACS=t setting. For all we know, it works just fine without it. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 09 17:56:48 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Apr 2016 21:56:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56435 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ap0s4-0000sM-IB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 17:56:48 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:35107) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ap0s2-0000s4-LH; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 17:56:47 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:Cc:To:From:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID; bh=ZvMqdS/xzRvH3yrCq0+RCGkDK5NWCL6Ztfr/MdiOlHE=; b=1OInzqwvKzesC2yo769FVM60M8 BtL05mXkyz/cC/luSw2iqov1oMMmR+t9NGumUrcJyqmbbJGlu553+8Dt7x4y8HAoqq3dVY0I+fRw5 53/JfpKo1KAaDHPwiPeS4PqJSwom7sfXqaHiiXQ/BddFhFNYpNi2rn7ZiOZSjq1av/cjhqLFEA6+S iB+ZtHYytxv3uiRXsxqfntq7a6GnuwYQA2LtHiD8OUqnzyWROvjH2vu24MmafmjeXmBvK3vHh4Eih JVVcjFAaICJN/YKB5B0ZMvtgXDsiemWWQZzqN2Blbuu3ONcP/iNWZYa+Pm31EZ27swdoJeX0BfB2z f0xp2epQ==; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=52730 helo=cloud103.planethippo.com) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ap0rw-002teJ-3K; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 22:56:40 +0100 Received: from 77.98.219.118 ([77.98.219.118]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user phillip.lord@russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with HTTP; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 22:56:40 +0100 Message-ID: <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> In-Reply-To: References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 22:56:40 +0100 Subject: Re: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' From: "Phillip Lord" To: "Stefan Monnier" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Glenn Morris , eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On Sat, April 9, 2016 2:43 pm, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> http://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/man?section=flags >> "SWI-Prolog assumes this is the case if the environment variable EMACS >> is t" > > And here again, the page doesn't actually describe what would be the > consequence of a missing EMACS=t setting. For all we know, it works just > fine without it. They've just patched SWI-Prolog to look at INSIDE_EMACS anyway. I'm guessing that anyone who wants the EMACS=t behaviour should be able to get it back by adding (setenv "EMACS" "t") to their .emacs? Phil From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 09 19:40:30 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Apr 2016 23:40:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56444 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ap2UP-0003Wf-Q5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 19:40:29 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:40889) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ap2UN-0003WJ-Co; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 19:40:27 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C253161245; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 16:40:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id z3_08tP_b9xH; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 16:40:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDF1F16124A; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 16:40:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id ytBSnQSsZELW; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 16:40:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [100.32.155.148]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 94E53161245; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 16:40:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' To: Phillip Lord , Stefan Monnier References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <570992E3.4070109@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 16:40:19 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: Glenn Morris , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Phillip Lord wrote: > They've just patched SWI-Prolog to look at INSIDE_EMACS anyway. Amusingly enough, the SWI-Prolog implementation (both unpatched and patched) disagrees with its documentation, which says SWI-Prolog assumes it is running under Emacs "if the environment variable EMACS is 't' and INFERIOR is 'yes'." Note the restriction to 't' in the documentation (which the code does not enforce). Note also the "and" in the documentation (the code uses "||"). It sounds like this stuff isn't exercised much.... > I'm guessing that anyone who wants the EMACS=t behaviour should be able to > get it back by adding (setenv "EMACS" "t") to their .emacs? Yes, that works. Or in practice for SWI-Prolog (setenv "INFERIOR" "yes") should also do the trick. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 09 20:09:02 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Apr 2016 00:09:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56449 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ap2w2-0004C7-5b for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 20:09:02 -0400 Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:56991) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ap2vz-0004Bf-Sa; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 20:09:00 -0400 Received: from fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id u3A09b23028984; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 20:09:37 -0400 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 5D2D3AE67F; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 20:08:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Paul Eggert Subject: Re: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Message-ID: References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <570992E3.4070109@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 20:08:54 -0400 In-Reply-To: <570992E3.4070109@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Sat, 9 Apr 2016 16:40:19 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.2 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 2 Rules triggered GEN_SPAM_FEATRE=0.2, RV5637=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <5637> : inlines <4656> : streams <1616812> : uri <2183409> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Glenn Morris , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Phillip Lord X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > Yes, that works. Or in practice for SWI-Prolog (setenv "INFERIOR" "yes") > should also do the trick. "Do the trick" to get what, exactly? Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 09 23:30:58 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Apr 2016 03:30:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56485 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ap65S-00024e-9G for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 23:30:58 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:47270) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ap65R-00024N-9F; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 23:30:57 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0274161245; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 20:30:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id pYV-EWmBA3tO; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 20:30:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E24E716124A; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 20:30:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id 6xH4KOCkFTy7; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 20:30:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [100.32.155.148]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B8125161245; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 20:30:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' To: Stefan Monnier References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <570992E3.4070109@cs.ucla.edu> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <5709C8EA.6060502@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 20:30:50 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------040904030408070902080907" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Glenn Morris , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Phillip Lord X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040904030408070902080907 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stefan Monnier wrote: > "Do the trick" to get what, exactly? It causes the predicate 'current_prolog_flag(emacs_inferior_process, X)' to succeed with X=true, and it causes SWI-Prolog to not attempt to put the terminal into raw mode. Although the former doesn't seem to do much of anything, latter affects the UI, notably the debugger. For example, SWI-Prolog 7.2.3 in Emacs 24 under M-x run-prolog: ?- trace, member(X, [a,b,c]). Call: (8) lists:member(_G2, [a, b, c]) ? a % Execution Aborted ?- The same interaction in emacs-25 now: 1 ?- trace, member(X, [a,b,c]). Call: (8) lists:member(_G2, [a, b, c]) ? a abort % Execution Aborted 2 ?- I suppose the differences might be annoying to someone who does a lot of Prolog debugging. To give some perspective, although I am annoyed whenever I have to debug GNU Prolog under Emacs due to gprolog's mishandling of tty modes under Emacs, this is something I've never gotten sufficiently annoyed at to fix, even though it's been ten years since I first ran afoul of it. One possible workaround would be something like the attached patch, which relies on SWI-Prolog's behavior of assuming GNU Emacs when INFERIOR=yes in the environment. --------------040904030408070902080907 Content-Type: text/x-diff; name="prolog.diff" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="prolog.diff" diff --git a/lisp/progmodes/prolog.el b/lisp/progmodes/prolog.el index 9ee405b..fffa7cc 100644 --- a/lisp/progmodes/prolog.el +++ b/lisp/progmodes/prolog.el @@ -1374,8 +1374,10 @@ prolog-ensure-process () (with-current-buffer (get-buffer-create "*prolog*") (prolog-inferior-mode) - (apply 'make-comint-in-buffer "prolog" (current-buffer) - (prolog-program-name) nil (prolog-program-switches)) + (let ((process-environment + (cons "INFERIOR=yes" process-environment))) + (apply 'make-comint-in-buffer "prolog" (current-buffer) + (prolog-program-name) nil (prolog-program-switches))) (unless prolog-system ;; Setup auto-detection. (setq-local --------------040904030408070902080907-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 10 03:14:29 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Apr 2016 07:14:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56512 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ap9Zk-0007Wl-SB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 03:14:29 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.20]:52365) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ap9Zi-0007WV-Ox; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 03:14:27 -0400 Received: from detlef.gmx.de ([87.146.53.247]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx103) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MfEsY-1b9PSu2ZOE-00OpHc; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:13:26 +0200 From: Michael Albinus To: "Phillip Lord" Subject: Re: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:13:22 +0200 In-Reply-To: <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> (Phillip Lord's message of "Sat, 9 Apr 2016 22:56:40 +0100") Message-ID: <87d1pykkbx.fsf@gmx.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:6zn1vqNalzVViyUGWOxbJpwQIjtYNMy4xxhXwWCSxdUdWGB3ZMI pbrp/m75MjVP1buV4wlEzVFFTi6Z4kKfcQiibEB7rjTRhCu6IDz3fqnBcPfVquOJqNMsuIo EL/4/uoSYrzSEcZxBvv0cOFiQmBHsEfaRuQdFdbm/qL2zyF0QQ6d3ME+scGvQ21VvnFw1yN O7S16jOU8EwJYBj/JLiwQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:t9mFIQzw+iA=:1Zq66yHEH2jzCsz2dHxsJs cOdV9NnaNiX3ao3I92nfvkNT2xla2KwHFt9Vf95thSETiq63Ii0KiJme0HwHc4kuThgekB3k3 90mBDZdFsLGUOs9v4XRigreSe0OIWO8m53+d9xHeTkdGw1KCFhHGIyA7V6Qk8HXCLiEAhP9ei LpUtn/xAGNDlkmbS+V0E1025IJDk7zBUl2R0oJKJ1ybGkLBEtndeyt0Ki3Z68j3U5i24Bb1cw j8Z/+BAzA3mJcuSlji7u2taNoUQJ5s6UpogGjvsysz4sdskAT+iD8fYmIC1Axh2dQGKropdrW p3/iCrpXfdkwlzq6hBrTyxYGfVRinmMs/QJuf0kr8zM2CLt7lQ4IW3vUVHJ3gm7dsBu4Jy5Zx ZSToayw2M9yAJIE01UsoByBtbZGNwfytySayiWI/ccpRG4VDFpkkGRQck4jzgnptYhvlFQmOR aBBxwbrdwhSTvC1IE0V7KPiH7/YXud+k99MTUFLKLyHZR8taWdJJnvdXEVtlki+DcZSjSbWNv siv4cRMH5l5nrFnHgcClZTLwSxxbHuIaB9SBDlcJeHIg5T3kJSS4cci8092Jz2CpqryJuoqa8 ChYqBeA+1UaUfh7SXPs2k0oHpQO1DDpGG6mSFq9e01WrlY4qoRtP9okfyHWBU4VVR5uK+oIoA gac0uAHOSi04g9Vf2wbJiFbi0TSik/vLlz6P2isI8gNGNQqLbw9JDE6ZYzeH4Tcl4DqleiD1C VjLOKJY8dJLacX8Wl5DKaOR/vpdS38pt1+9ufKrI33W0WeBw4ghc8H3x0Ws4ZwBVB9N6TLIpT 4tLDUmG X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, Stefan Monnier , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) "Phillip Lord" writes: > I'm guessing that anyone who wants the EMACS=t behaviour should be able to > get it back by adding (setenv "EMACS" "t") to their .emacs? Not for remote processes. > Phil Best regards, Michael. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 10 04:25:51 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Apr 2016 08:25:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56560 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apAgp-0000uV-6S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 04:25:51 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:54572) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apAgm-0000uC-Ka; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 04:25:49 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:Cc:To:From:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID; bh=fU+xKrq4VtHMGmEgjtfcA3K5pgtyJ/yZj4iPa2FvkSw=; b=Vk+G3HJsBvZZgDK4ONrbzeT4UR h3QtNpLQwn2ijtYu5sMMELWuWZkapeHpYwzIcvWQ+RzsIy6kroVDljZ5IFV1Ge4WWn06PUPKQwaAi /i4uyx9QHpMTpcM772Vyihhy9PYDF+4xBzvJ8dfH4vc9v+933BvCRmi5x54OMDOTjjZFXnHJCGslA I0Gry932VfPFbl+tbjFM4Sd/hY/y1p4F5TMbbd5oCr5USHlg1nYfE1SdBYd0002hCUHD5bdjthMlW RCF4oeTwYZbT3IvWBWEzouk3ywKQbMtbG32MEuqGorzaiHF7RxCxZz9qn5T4RnjWVfwPsAq2iRdCr 2uodhqcQ==; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=43963 helo=cloud103.planethippo.com) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1apAgg-004LjI-9l; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:25:42 +0100 Received: from 77.98.219.118 ([77.98.219.118]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user phillip.lord@russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with HTTP; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:25:42 +0100 Message-ID: <8346a9b64e23b8a8fbcfcf10274e2ba2.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> In-Reply-To: <570992E3.4070109@cs.ucla.edu> References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <570992E3.4070109@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:25:42 +0100 Subject: Re: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' From: "Phillip Lord" To: "Paul Eggert" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , Phillip Lord X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On Sun, April 10, 2016 12:40 am, Paul Eggert wrote: > Phillip Lord wrote: > >> They've just patched SWI-Prolog to look at INSIDE_EMACS anyway. >> > > Amusingly enough, the SWI-Prolog implementation (both unpatched and > patched) disagrees with its documentation, which says SWI-Prolog assumes > it is running under Emacs "if the environment variable EMACS is 't' and > INFERIOR is 'yes'." > > > Note the restriction to 't' in the documentation (which the code does not > enforce). Note also the "and" in the documentation (the code uses "||"). Yes, I noticed that as well. I couldn't patch the documentation because I couldn't find the source. > It sounds like this stuff isn't exercised much.... I wouldn't conclude that; more likely, it just works so no one has looked. The situation with bash is the same -- Emacs requests --noediting, but bash detects Emacs and enforces noediting anyway. Phil > >> I'm guessing that anyone who wants the EMACS=t behaviour should be able >> to get it back by adding (setenv "EMACS" "t") to their .emacs? > > Yes, that works. Or in practice for SWI-Prolog (setenv "INFERIOR" "yes") > should also do the trick. > > > > From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 10 04:26:49 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Apr 2016 08:26:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56566 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apAhl-0000wX-F7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 04:26:49 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:54617) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apAhk-0000wJ-Cb; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 04:26:48 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:Cc:To:From:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID; bh=8TlFQZn+rBN/EWeDnw+FroEgaBUDpN9kdaf9pVejhAk=; b=ni8Db9MwIyX2vTydqyw2OPEiQQ BqZ6UCN1bXPavq+WxOv7150qYjRwm8cfEJ2saUK2XtmLY3M5QwaqKT0B93RC7W++pvvhEhDq/pqDy INrnHU5mgWguHqJ6qO57UBm7hI/UOVfmrDNxBFOqNiZd+j1M039u9jSOEaATt+qpRdY6dQpcVpg7L 0Yud9UaBCzHRKlZfbmexYCwaDj10zwHJB7wIr7oGc3b6388p1MZc944vTaQj/WtqCtcXJWLCsthub 7+HQ6njOyQQd04sX+sDQQZh2EnlFy6Fttc15xirihoqMTuYr9/wzjTo18aqYMSk6mlb69DQ2CjpkR COfYEBLQ==; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=44008 helo=cloud103.planethippo.com) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1apAhe-004LrE-9T; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:26:42 +0100 Received: from 77.98.219.118 ([77.98.219.118]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user phillip.lord@russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with HTTP; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:26:42 +0100 Message-ID: <0988bc8ff08f43e468bbd48fe3bc45f7.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> In-Reply-To: References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <570992E3.4070109@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:26:42 +0100 Subject: Re: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' From: "Phillip Lord" To: "Stefan Monnier" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Paul Eggert , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Phillip Lord X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On Sun, April 10, 2016 1:08 am, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> Yes, that works. Or in practice for SWI-Prolog (setenv "INFERIOR" >> "yes") >> should also do the trick. > > "Do the trick" to get what, exactly? Didn't look at the code deeply, but to switch off line editing. Phil From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 10 04:51:50 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Apr 2016 08:51:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56585 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apB5y-0001Xy-C3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 04:51:50 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:55328) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apB5v-0001Xi-TU; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 04:51:48 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:Cc:To:From:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID; bh=0CzeO/5GPDg5gyERFxsub+Dk7uIn7jDgxsMSmDREE00=; b=TLVV7lX4TA4yaXB9oXhoB0qdJo QxofDnQlHF6f2bqWTDwf8BIWCNReB9FD2VtiKWvHivmm+DLwZqGLkFPe3NNjvFMZW/mBUVF9MKlxx m89HAV9rW8c2sd4e6M7RUkcfJeZcwlbFo8Hu6rnx3TyeGk73QUb/N4H0T6mjfJvFk5mwkIvR3sc4V JlmUVnV/yhkQ+VpOyzHM7Y3yl42j34clXXe7kBNy9g/wduEl7JLlSBQWAzdhqD/GCsexEdY1rVNuU VI+7EWIeQDwlIaN1TBadIU6O9DBsfFGEom5mZh9RyqdfwJRdE17fXdFxQxSzBBx3+butP0+GxDAZo jSNdQzgQ==; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=44718 helo=cloud103.planethippo.com) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1apB5p-0000n1-CZ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:51:41 +0100 Received: from 77.98.219.118 ([77.98.219.118]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user phillip.lord@russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with HTTP; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:51:41 +0100 Message-ID: <98c1d9e2cf46ace81a4ec0c1c9fc0758.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> In-Reply-To: <87d1pykkbx.fsf@gmx.de> References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <87d1pykkbx.fsf@gmx.de> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:51:41 +0100 Subject: Re: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' From: "Phillip Lord" To: "Michael Albinus" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On Sun, April 10, 2016 8:13 am, Michael Albinus wrote: > "Phillip Lord" writes: > > >> I'm guessing that anyone who wants the EMACS=t behaviour should be able >> to get it back by adding (setenv "EMACS" "t") to their .emacs? > > Not for remote processes. Didn't think of that. Can tramp be hooked to add this back, if needed? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 10 05:32:34 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Apr 2016 09:32:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56597 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apBjO-0002Y8-3H for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 05:32:34 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.21]:49293) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apBjM-0002Xq-6U; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 05:32:32 -0400 Received: from detlef.gmx.de ([87.146.53.247]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx102) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0McPvw-1b6r5g1e2i-00HgY6; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 11:31:32 +0200 From: Michael Albinus To: "Phillip Lord" Subject: Re: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <87d1pykkbx.fsf@gmx.de> <98c1d9e2cf46ace81a4ec0c1c9fc0758.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 11:31:27 +0200 In-Reply-To: <98c1d9e2cf46ace81a4ec0c1c9fc0758.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> (Phillip Lord's message of "Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:51:41 +0100") Message-ID: <87inzpkdxs.fsf@gmx.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:ZWWj+F76Tm/ufPIcsfvBjMzgVpKRuG4rZE1poGlvZ9MGIAOhB6I Epdvz7x/wimmBLHzgFvpo4csiCy5AqW+X/dPhPSgZzJvrHuBWGBrtmlX5B9jIB6BBfitXF6 waBv13NO4N/0FUG5GdK0HJnPwnpRZignrvj++ZjbyvFW5lWUWVp3KZQ1HIoVeOS/lPoTsL9 Xef8Dtuf6oJ+OWHwbtYpA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:ZwW+R/xTY/Y=:EQqrC29Mk+WlfukTYaHHdd W9lDtwtkXP8xRBgXspQP5urcVr4rZ66H11lzHgA5jYGRjeLwfZsmq/kUuk95z9DYOItCYPPDe q840c8P/lfnAdCiJiugGZ1gcWN42G5I6P9FSeos5emtWj4P3xVmwIbUFfht/vbWvVwbHpPtrt cxprea5nlC59dnzpdLFaFVH5J4+Yu67Qfw0opHFvEbS5r0yLe9+mCrHPk+5jSTyonBwhhdRea gvCbxz2hrNX/q5soUE+b8sdazF6QB+p7qWH786CAJQY0Ra3R49ALhiiTMKzBHucYtGuTYpGdp sEaEkXZL4QaqldNQPhah97N6sm3mRGoCFwT+N58CenASvhtL0nJvS6P7tF+DQS4xy/yUeg8h0 EeK9dgSpMD5CEhb13Dmf5WO1SiXY5RONgmkXoiQOa9HQrSEeGG/lemwPOMCVY3FYisQ1O3Xfz BHgB4J2leRbeo3mcmWg9PXxoIGK0fnribS/y73ytiu6SdiKv/b2iWDKwUgkT/F2gZ5/lZDSNg sneNIJ6zKh0JGtKit1vPyaLXXDeIkKpmpdkeFae/z9KDbcJD+qrEtTr4RMv/cUgBtDLCsIpHB rE3Kv+yKcXeikF5aAmj4dK3tAQHhXbZCK49lU1nq00XiK5PRpWwPBUoE5GgDn31LhciyFTkVU gEhiwr58iKjfvsexVmrxWFW1QxYxgY/Y4G83bfpVGx4/v2t9IQPtLAL37JRGfQAQeZtCh4yiB tzu7StECWiyHR65vxcQ6L+xaOaGUCSblOst6DjksPnKGo17kudjRHQkGVQsDGKbM5k3N4Iqrj byf/9jL X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) "Phillip Lord" writes: >>> I'm guessing that anyone who wants the EMACS=t behaviour should be able >>> to get it back by adding (setenv "EMACS" "t") to their .emacs? >> >> Not for remote processes. > > Didn't think of that. Can tramp be hooked to add this back, if needed? One could add it to tramp-remote-process-environment. Best regards, Michael. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 10 09:57:48 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Apr 2016 13:57:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57341 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apFs4-00027Q-Ar for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:57:48 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:28780) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apFs2-000276-0E; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:57:46 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0CVDQA731xV/ytyoWxcDoMChALBFYdLBAICgTw6EwEBAQEBAQGBCkEFg10BAQMBViMFCws0EhQYDSSINwjPIwEBAQcBAQEBHos6hQUHhC0BBIZfhgCDVaMLgUUjgjt/WiKCeAEBAQ X-IPAS-Result: A0CVDQA731xV/ytyoWxcDoMChALBFYdLBAICgTw6EwEBAQEBAQGBCkEFg10BAQMBViMFCws0EhQYDSSINwjPIwEBAQcBAQEBHos6hQUHhC0BBIZfhgCDVaMLgUUjgjt/WiKCeAEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,465,1427774400"; d="scan'208";a="205767120" Received: from 108-161-114-43.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO fmsmemgm.homelinux.net) ([108.161.114.43]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 10 Apr 2016 09:57:40 -0400 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id D9D30AE67F; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:57:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Paul Eggert Subject: Re: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Message-ID: References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <570992E3.4070109@cs.ucla.edu> <5709C8EA.6060502@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:57:39 -0400 In-Reply-To: <5709C8EA.6060502@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Sat, 9 Apr 2016 20:30:50 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Glenn Morris , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Phillip Lord X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) > ?- trace, member(X, [a,b,c]). > Call: (8) lists:member(_G2, [a, b, c]) ? a > % Execution Aborted > ?- > > The same interaction in emacs-25 now: > > 1 ?- trace, member(X, [a,b,c]). > Call: (8) lists:member(_G2, [a, b, c]) ? a > abort > % Execution Aborted > 2 ?- Hmm.. what are those "abort" and "2" in the output? When running swipl inside a terminal I don't see these, so why do we see them in M-x run-prolog? > I suppose the differences might be annoying to someone who does a lot of > Prolog debugging. Indeed. > I have to debug GNU Prolog under Emacs due to gprolog's mishandling of tty > modes under Emacs, this is something I've never gotten sufficiently annoyed > at to fix, even though it's been ten years since I first ran afoul of it. FWIW, the current prolog.el has some tweaks for GNU Prolog which might be relevant. So you might like to try again and see if the problem is still present. If not, report it as a bug (and put me in X-Debbugs-Cc). Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 10 09:59:18 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Apr 2016 13:59:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57348 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apFtV-0002A3-Rp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:59:18 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:14700) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apFtU-00029j-4H; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:59:16 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0AIIwA731xV/ytyoWxcgxCEAsEVh0sEAgKBPDsSAQEBAQEBAYEKQQECAoNdAQEDAVYjBQsLNAcLFBgNJIg3CM8jAQEBAQYBAQEBAR2LOoUFB4QtAQSzP4FFI4I7gVkigngBAQE X-IPAS-Result: A0AIIwA731xV/ytyoWxcgxCEAsEVh0sEAgKBPDsSAQEBAQEBAYEKQQECAoNdAQEDAVYjBQsLNAcLFBgNJIg3CM8jAQEBAQYBAQEBAR2LOoUFB4QtAQSzP4FFI4I7gVkigngBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,465,1427774400"; d="scan'208";a="205767168" Received: from 108-161-114-43.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO fmsmemgm.homelinux.net) ([108.161.114.43]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 10 Apr 2016 09:59:10 -0400 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 4F463AE67F; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:59:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: "Phillip Lord" Subject: Re: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Message-ID: References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <570992E3.4070109@cs.ucla.edu> <0988bc8ff08f43e468bbd48fe3bc45f7.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:59:10 -0400 In-Reply-To: <0988bc8ff08f43e468bbd48fe3bc45f7.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> (Phillip Lord's message of "Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:26:42 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: Paul Eggert , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) > Didn't look at the code deeply, but to switch off line editing. That still doesn't say what changes, concretely. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 11 01:50:16 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Apr 2016 05:50:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57876 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apUjo-0008OY-Px for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 01:50:16 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:36572) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apUjn-0008OH-1Y; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 01:50:15 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B9A6160FF2; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 22:50:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id w8kWv6ndIDd4; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 22:50:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C525D161257; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 22:50:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id 8PFEZ7c0fPWk; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 22:50:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [100.32.155.148]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9C5D3160FF2; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 22:50:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' To: Stefan Monnier References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <570992E3.4070109@cs.ucla.edu> <5709C8EA.6060502@cs.ucla.edu> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <570B3B10.3060509@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 22:50:08 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Glenn Morris , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Phillip Lord X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Monnier wrote: > Hmm.. what are those "abort" and "2" in the output? > > When running swipl inside a terminal I don't see these, so why do we see > them in M-x run-prolog? I'm afraid I don't know, and don't have the patience to find out. The SWI-Prolog source code is not immediately obvious, and it doesn't appear to agree with its documentation. Rather than fool around with it I simply installed the INFERIOR=yes workaround into emacs-25/lisp/progmodes/prolog.el. > FWIW, the current prolog.el has some tweaks for GNU Prolog which might > be relevant. So you might like to try again and see if the problem is > still present. If not, report it as a bug (and put me in X-Debbugs-Cc). Thanks. Until yesterday I didn't know about M-x run-prolog. I just ran gprolog in a M-x shell window, which doesn't work well. I'll try to remember to use M-x run-prolog from now on. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 11 08:32:40 2016 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Apr 2016 12:32:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58121 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apb1E-0004Yx-Gc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 08:32:40 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:55861) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apb1C-0004Yd-G4; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 08:32:39 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=QtNkFTFBq3svL64AjPn20SgsmJEmjtIgeiS2FuRgcnA=; b=YHd8CxEPFvTkB5TVsl7Q95h/VV d/+E0lXl3b6jKdQ0/pkN8V3A8xPMlboKmlI9Rp/0pAAVTZh6H2XI/6mhKrfFWBY7MJ1sSpV7dzAKr RurJJ1iR6UuPUJBKZFLmH51RmJZNXyiDTJot/anPitixbFktjSKCj/ZBKMOK9rpFtwRhDWMW4M6Ex b8M0/EF0KjcWT/PMRYp8wTRfKt+nF4jCLTgSgZCvF4rTmDuHSLdmpVUe7TWGhmzJ20rJkFz8R1ibj xUpuxy8ap8IBYUSPtT6vTKy48QyafMzXtWRlX0yuSUDULWO3WnrQI1TAEcINzR1MHI0Fu9/1ijbUb +tMZMh1g==; Received: from cpc1-benw10-2-0-cust373.gate.cable.virginm.net ([77.98.219.118]:50723 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1apb10-0042MZ-32; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 13:32:26 +0100 From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) To: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <570992E3.4070109@cs.ucla.edu> <0988bc8ff08f43e468bbd48fe3bc45f7.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 13:32:25 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:59:10 -0400") Message-ID: <871t6c72cm.fsf@russet.org.uk> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: Paul Eggert , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Stefan Monnier writes: >> Didn't look at the code deeply, but to switch off line editing. > > That still doesn't say what changes, concretely. Well, what ever it doesn't do without EMACS=t, it will now, since it's all been patched. I think I can stop worrying about it. Phil From unknown Sun Jun 22 22:44:51 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 11:24:03 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu May 24 17:00:21 2018 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 May 2018 21:00:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46931 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fLxLR-0001dA-HK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 24 May 2018 17:00:21 -0400 Received: from pruche.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.22]:52548) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fLxLP-0001d2-Fk for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 24 May 2018 17:00:19 -0400 Received: from pastel.home (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by pruche.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.7/8.14.1) with ESMTP id w4OL0IfT018141; Thu, 24 May 2018 17:00:18 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 437EF68311; Thu, 24 May 2018 17:00:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: Archived problem report bug#20484 (EMACS=t Joy and Happiness) Message-ID: References: Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 17:00:18 -0400 In-Reply-To: (GNU bug Tracking System's message of "Thu, 24 May 2018 20:54:02 +0000") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.1 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 3 Rules triggered GEN_SPAM_FEATRE=0.1, EDT_SA_DN_PASS=0, RV6293=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <6293> : inlines <6657> : streams <1787695> : uri <2646662> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) unarchive 20484 thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu May 24 18:04:08 2018 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 May 2018 22:04:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47005 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fLyLA-000722-93 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 24 May 2018 18:04:08 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:39426) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fLyL8-00071S-BH; Thu, 24 May 2018 18:04:06 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73D87160612; Thu, 24 May 2018 15:04:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id jtoMb23KVRT1; Thu, 24 May 2018 15:03:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8C10160613; Thu, 24 May 2018 15:03:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id Il4TFJTEh9dR; Thu, 24 May 2018 15:03:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9A779160612; Thu, 24 May 2018 15:03:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness To: Phillip Lord , Emacs-Devel devel References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <6443412a-5803-d9c0-1ef3-ece7f49c43e1@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 15:03:56 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Bash 4.4 came out only in September 2016, and it's too soon to assume it. For example, my students regularly use Emacs on a server running RHEL 7, which ships Bash 4.2.46, and as I understand it, this is the most recent RHEL available. How about this idea: At Emacs build time, we check whether Bash is 4.4 or later, and if so we use a term.el that assumes bash 4.4 or later. Otherwise, we use a term.el that interrogates the shell dynamically for whether it is shell and if so what its version number is, the first time that Emacs runs a process under a shell. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu May 24 22:25:45 2018 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2018 02:25:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47164 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM2QL-0008Pk-LG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 24 May 2018 22:25:45 -0400 Received: from relay12.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.178.232]:47921) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM2QK-0008PX-8Q; Thu, 24 May 2018 22:25:44 -0400 Received: from epi.local (123-243-244-176.tpgi.com.au [123.243.244.176]) (Authenticated sender: van@scratch.space) by relay12.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 168E7200011; Fri, 25 May 2018 04:25:39 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) Subject: Re: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness From: Van L In-Reply-To: <6443412a-5803-d9c0-1ef3-ece7f49c43e1@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 12:25:35 +1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <6443412a-5803-d9c0-1ef3-ece7f49c43e1@cs.ucla.edu> To: Paul Eggert X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Emacs-Devel devel , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , Phillip Lord X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) > Paul Eggert writes: >=20 > this is the most recent RHEL available You could have your sclerotic institution=E2=80=99s IT manager provide = Enterprise RHEL for students studying topics as old as the hills and = mountains (and they won=E2=80=99t change) and request them to =E2=80=9Cthi= nk" about the latest unstable Fedora or Debian or Ubuntu releases for = research oriented experimental AI & CS =E2=80=9Cwork=E2=80=9D which are = hot career topics and ought not to be held back by bureaucratically = convenient RHEL IT hell. Ask them for what Tesla or Uber or Facebook or = Google use to keep up with =E2=80=9Cinnovation=E2=80=9D before it is = "too late" on RHEL.= From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 25 02:13:17 2018 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2018 06:13:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47261 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM5yW-0005HO-QQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 02:13:16 -0400 Received: from sender-of-o51.zoho.com ([135.84.80.216]:21063) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM5yT-0005H7-E9 for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 02:13:13 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1527228690; s=zoho; d=elephly.net; i=rekado@elephly.net; h=References:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-reply-to:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; l=943; bh=QzPRh6PPqYoM92KLz6Zvh6SPh+PQrFqdv+0WB0lmcqY=; b=imCatwYrdpdltKepSVJ/8RXAJ5RB8lec0s2XV5/9G0xaERw9T8OrwgZsFzivkvtE Ek1nFh3IQRHCXnb73kK1+B5QY6IQSaNek7IIoXVFUHbvVHSkfdNyfev5RdZbrPHx2kw vGfLzUllpaYcvyaL3MkyD521/krTmrg+cL/bNtJQ= Received: from localhost (port-92-200-51-123.dynamic.qsc.de [92.200.51.123]) by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 152722869040132.06256671509425; Thu, 24 May 2018 23:11:30 -0700 (PDT) References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <6443412a-5803-d9c0-1ef3-ece7f49c43e1@cs.ucla.edu> User-agent: mu4e 1.0; emacs 25.3.1 From: Ricardo Wurmus To: Van L Subject: Re: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness In-reply-to: X-URL: https://elephly.net X-PGP-Key: https://elephly.net/rekado.pubkey X-PGP-Fingerprint: BCA6 89B6 3655 3801 C3C6 2150 197A 5888 235F ACAC Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 08:11:25 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <87fu2gb6ya.fsf@elephly.net> X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: Paul Eggert , Emacs-Devel devel , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , Phillip Lord X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Van L writes: >> Paul Eggert writes: >> >> this is the most recent RHEL available > > You could have your sclerotic institution=E2=80=99s IT manager provide > Enterprise RHEL for students studying topics as old as the hills and > mountains (and they won=E2=80=99t change) and request them to =E2=80=9Cth= ink" about > the latest unstable Fedora or Debian or Ubuntu releases for research > oriented experimental AI & CS =E2=80=9Cwork=E2=80=9D which are hot career= topics and > ought not to be held back by bureaucratically convenient RHEL IT > hell. Ask them for what Tesla or Uber or Facebook or Google use to > keep up with =E2=80=9Cinnovation=E2=80=9D before it is "too late" on RHEL= . This is not constructive. There are even RHEL 6 deployments out there, because it=E2=80=99s still supported until 2020. There are people who pay for the privilege of not having to upgrade. -- Ricardo From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 25 02:16:15 2018 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2018 06:16:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47266 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM61P-0005MG-86 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 02:16:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:57361) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM61O-0005M4-0U for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 02:16:14 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fM61F-0001wV-0S for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 02:16:08 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:52231) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fM61E-0001wN-ST; Fri, 25 May 2018 02:16:04 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1217 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1fM61E-0005ZT-8H; Fri, 25 May 2018 02:16:04 -0400 Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 09:16:16 +0300 Message-Id: <83sh6g9s5r.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Paul Eggert In-reply-to: <6443412a-5803-d9c0-1ef3-ece7f49c43e1@cs.ucla.edu> (message from Paul Eggert on Thu, 24 May 2018 15:03:56 -0700) Subject: Re: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <6443412a-5803-d9c0-1ef3-ece7f49c43e1@cs.ucla.edu> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Paul Eggert > Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 15:03:56 -0700 > Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , > 20484@debbugs.gnu.org > > Bash 4.4 came out only in September 2016, and it's too soon to assume > it. I agree, 1.5 years is too soon. I think we need 5 years at least. > How about this idea: At Emacs build time, we check whether Bash is 4.4 > or later, and if so we use a term.el that assumes bash 4.4 or later. > Otherwise, we use a term.el that interrogates the shell dynamically for > whether it is shell and if so what its version number is, the first time > that Emacs runs a process under a shell. The first part will only work if Emacs is used on the same system where it is built, right? Is that a good assumption, given all the binary distributions? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 25 03:28:43 2018 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2018 07:28:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47313 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM79W-0006zq-V1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 03:28:43 -0400 Received: from relay6-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.198]:42233) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM79V-0006zZ-Fy; Fri, 25 May 2018 03:28:41 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 123.243.244.176 Received: from epi.local (123-243-244-176.tpgi.com.au [123.243.244.176]) (Authenticated sender: van@scratch.space) by relay6-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3CDEDC0012; Fri, 25 May 2018 09:28:38 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) Subject: Re: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness From: Van L In-Reply-To: <83sh6g9s5r.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 17:28:31 +1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <6443412a-5803-d9c0-1ef3-ece7f49c43e1@cs.ucla.edu> <83sh6g9s5r.fsf@gnu.org> To: Eli Zaretskii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: Paul Eggert , emacs-devel@gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Eli Zaretskii writes: > >> Bash 4.4 came out only in September 2016, and it's too soon to assume >> it. > > I agree, 1.5 years is too soon. I think we need 5 years at least. How about applying the 5-multiplier to 9-month cycles? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 25 04:03:55 2018 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2018 08:03:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47324 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM7hX-0007or-PP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 04:03:55 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45249) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM7hV-0007oe-RG for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 04:03:50 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fM7hL-00012J-34 for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 04:03:44 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:53261) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fM7gI-0000eL-Fk; Fri, 25 May 2018 04:02:34 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1419 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1fM7gH-0006KG-On; Fri, 25 May 2018 04:02:34 -0400 Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 11:02:46 +0300 Message-Id: <83efi09n89.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Van L In-reply-to: (message from Van L on Fri, 25 May 2018 17:28:31 +1000) Subject: Re: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <6443412a-5803-d9c0-1ef3-ece7f49c43e1@cs.ucla.edu> <83sh6g9s5r.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, emacs-devel@gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Van L > Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 17:28:31 +1000 > Cc: Paul Eggert , emacs-devel@gnu.org, > 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, > monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk > > > I agree, 1.5 years is too soon. I think we need 5 years at least. > > How about applying the 5-multiplier to 9-month cycles? I think you are confusing this with an entirely different domain. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 25 13:59:33 2018 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2018 17:59:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48700 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMH01-0002xb-0y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 13:59:33 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:39108) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMGzy-0002xF-Jo; Fri, 25 May 2018 13:59:31 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFEA9160780; Fri, 25 May 2018 10:59:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id AugcRpsFklUu; Fri, 25 May 2018 10:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E32BA1607B7; Fri, 25 May 2018 10:59:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id DskptPQzmHoR; Fri, 25 May 2018 10:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BB702160780; Fri, 25 May 2018 10:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness To: Van L References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <6443412a-5803-d9c0-1ef3-ece7f49c43e1@cs.ucla.edu> From: Paul Eggert Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=eggert@cs.ucla.edu; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBEyAcmQBEADAAyH2xoTu7ppG5D3a8FMZEon74dCvc4+q1XA2J2tBy2pwaTqfhpxxdGA9 Jj50UJ3PD4bSUEgN8tLZ0san47l5XTAFLi2456ciSl5m8sKaHlGdt9XmAAtmXqeZVIYX/UFS 96fDzf4xhEmm/y7LbYEPQdUdxu47xA5KhTYp5bltF3WYDz1Ygd7gx07Auwp7iw7eNvnoDTAl KAl8KYDZzbDNCQGEbpY3efZIvPdeI+FWQN4W+kghy+P6au6PrIIhYraeua7XDdb2LS1en3Ss mE3QjqfRqI/A2ue8JMwsvXe/WK38Ezs6x74iTaqI3AFH6ilAhDqpMnd/msSESNFt76DiO1ZK QMr9amVPknjfPmJISqdhgB1DlEdw34sROf6V8mZw0xfqT6PKE46LcFefzs0kbg4GORf8vjG2 Sf1tk5eU8MBiyN/bZ03bKNjNYMpODDQQwuP84kYLkX2wBxxMAhBxwbDVZudzxDZJ1C2VXujC OJVxq2kljBM9ETYuUGqd75AW2LXrLw6+MuIsHFAYAgRr7+KcwDgBAfwhPBYX34nSSiHlmLC+ KaHLeCLF5ZI2vKm3HEeCTtlOg7xZEONgwzL+fdKo+D6SoC8RRxJKs8a3sVfI4t6CnrQzvJbB n6gxdgCu5i29J1QCYrCYvql2UyFPAK+do99/1jOXT4m2836j1wARAQABzSBQYXVsIEVnZ2Vy dCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1PsLBfgQTAQIAKAUCTIByZAIbAwUJEswDAAYLCQgHAwIG FQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjRRGw/+Ij03dhYfYl/gXVRiuzV1gGrbHk+t nfrI/C7fAeoFzQ5tVgVinShaPkZo0HTPf18x6IDEdAiO8Mqo1yp0CtHmzGMCJ50o4Grgfjlr 6g/+vtEOKbhleszN2XpJvpwM2QgGvn/laTLUu8PH9aRWTs7qJJZKKKAb4sxYc92FehPu6FOD 0dDiyhlDAq4lOV2mdBpzQbiojoZzQLMQwjpgCTK2572eK9EOEQySUThXrSIz6ASenp4NYTFH s9tuJQvXk9gZDdPSl3bp+47dGxlxEWLpBIM7zIONw4ks4azgT8nvDZxA5IZHtvqBlJLBObYY 0Le61Wp0y3TlBDh2qdK8eYL426W4scEMSuig5gb8OAtQiBW6k2sGUxxeiv8ovWu8YAZgKJfu oWI+uRnMEddruY8JsoM54KaKvZikkKs2bg1ndtLVzHpJ6qFZC7QVjeHUh6/BmgvdjWPZYFTt N+KA9CWX3GQKKgN3uu988yznD7LnB98T4EUH1HA/GnfBqMV1gpzTvPc4qVQinCmIkEFp83zl +G5fCjJJ3W7ivzCnYo4KhKLpFUm97okTKR2LW3xZzEW4cLSWO387MTK3CzDOx5qe6s4a91Zu ZM/j/TQdTLDaqNn83kA4Hq48UHXYxcIh+Nd8k/3w6lFuoK0wrOFiywjLx+0ur5jmmbecBGHc 1xdhAFHOwU0ETIByZAEQAKaF678T9wyH4wjTrV1Pz3cDEoSnV/0ZUrOT37p1dcGyj/IXq1x6 70HRVahAmk0sZpYc25PF9D5GPYHFWlNjuPU96rDndXB3hedmBRhLdC4bAXjI4DV+bmdVe+q/ IMnlZRaVlm9EiMCVAR6w13sReu7qXkW9r3RwY2AzXskp/tAe4BRKr1Zmbvi2nbnQ6epEC42r Rbx0B1EhjbIQZ5JHGk24iPT7LdBgnNmos5wYjzwNlkMQD5T0Ydzhk7J+UxwA5m46mOhRDC2r FV/A0gm5TLy8DXjv/Esc4gYnYai6SQqnUEVh5LuV8YCJBnijs+Tiw71x1icmn6xGI45EugJO gec+rLypYgpVp4x0HI5T88qBRYCkxH3Kg8Qo+EWNA9A4LRQ9DX8njona0gf0s03tocK8kBN6 6UoqqPtHBnc4eMgBymCflK12eKfd2YYxnyg9cZazWA5VslvTxpm76hbg5oiAEH/Vg/8MxHyA nPhfrgwyPrmJEcVBafdspJnYQxBYNco2LFPIhlOvWh8r4at+s+M3Lb26oUTczlgdW1Sf3SDA 77BMRnF0FQyE+7AzV79MBN4ykiqaezQxtaF1Fy/tvkhffSo8u+dwG0EgJh+te38gTcISVr0G IPplLz6YhjrbHrPRF1CN5UuL9DBGjxuN35RLNVEfta6RUFlR6NctTjvrABEBAAHCwWUEGAEC AA8FAkyAcmQCGwwFCRLMAwAACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjSrHA/+KzAKvTxRhA9MWNLxIyJ7S5uJ16gs T3oCjZrBKGEhKMOGX4O0GA6VOEryO7QRCCYah3oxSG38IAnNeiwJXgU9Bzkk85UGbPEd7HGF /VSeHCQwWou6jqUDTSDvn9YhNTdG0KXPM74aC+xr2Zow1O2mhXihgWKD0Dw+0LYPnUOsQ0KO FxHXXYHmRrS1OZPU59BLvc+TRhIhafSHKLwbXK+6ckkxBx6h8z5ccpG0Qs4bFhdFYnFrEieD LoGmnE2YLhdV6swJ9VNCS6pLiEohT3fm7aXm15tZOIyzMZhHRSAPblXxQ0ZSWjq8oRrcYNFx c4W1URpAkBCOYJoXvQfD5L3lqAl8TCqDUzYxhH/tJhbDdHrqHH767jaDaTB1+Talp/2AMKwc XNOdiklGxbmHVG6YGl6g8Lrbsu9NZEI4yLlHzuikthJWgz+3vZhVGyNlt+HNIoF6CjDL2omu 5cEq4RDHM44QqPk6l7O0pUvN1mT4B+S1b08RKpqm/ff015E37HNV/piIvJlxGAYz8PSfuGCB 1thMYqlmgdhd9/BabGFbGGYHA6U4/T5zqU+f6xHy1SsAQZ1MSKlLwekBIT+4/cLRGqCHjnV0 q5H/T6a7t5mPkbzSrOLSo4puj+IToNjYyYIDBWzhlA19avOa+rvUjmHtD3sFN7cXWtkGoi8b uNcby4U= Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 10:59:23 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Emacs-Devel devel , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , Phillip Lord X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On 05/24/2018 07:25 PM, Van L wrote: > Ask them for what Tesla or Uber or Facebook or Google use I just checked the first company mentioned on your list (Tesla) and it=20 is posting want-ads that ask for Red Hat expertise. Unfortunately I=20 can't disclose what I privately know about Tesla, but suffice it to say=20 that like most other successful companies they use a wide variety of=20 systems in their work, and not all of these systems are the very latest=20 version of everything. > I can understand the excuse for long-term-support system contracts but = not for the poster=E2=80=99s student environment. > > You refer to lazy privileged people I'm afraid there's a misunderstanding here. At UCLA we have a wide=20 variety of systems running many different OSes. Servers at UCLA run many=20 operating systems; it's quite a gamut, as we have a lot of departments=20 and research groups, most of which focus on areas other than computer=20 science and who have a lot of software of varying quality that they=20 don't necessarily have time or budget to upgrade or maintain=20 extensively. The courses I teach are assigned to a batch of RHEL 7=20 servers that support many different courses, not just mine. I do not=20 specify or maintain the server OSes; that's a responsibility of the=20 operations staff of the School of Engineering, and they're busy people=20 who do not report to me. To help keep my course material up-to-date I install copies of the=20 latest released versions of Emacs (currently 25.3), Bash (currently=20 4.4.19), and many other free software programs. (I don't overwrite=20 /usr/bin of course; I install into a separate directory that students=20 put into their PATH settings.) So it'll be little trouble to me or my=20 students if Emacs requires Bash 4.4 or later. When I mentioned RHEL 7, I=20 wasn't simply talking about my personal situation; I was observing that=20 requiring Bash 4.4 would be a hassle for people installing newer Emacs=20 versions onto Red Hat servers, as it would require these people to also=20 install newer Bash versions. If it's important for Emacs to require Bash=20 4.4 of course Emacs can do so; still, I expect that the overall hassle=20 to Emacs users of requiring Bash 4.4 still outweighs the relatively=20 minor technical benefit in question. Sorry, but that's how things often=20 work in production software. With all this in mind you might want to rethink your comments that among=20 other things seem to imply that the staff at UCLA consists of "lazy=20 privileged people". From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 25 16:36:14 2018 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2018 20:36:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48761 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMJRd-0006Wu-JU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 16:36:13 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:38706) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMJRb-0006Wb-44; Fri, 25 May 2018 16:36:11 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D6E11600B2; Fri, 25 May 2018 13:36:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id X-vhxVxhVOB2; Fri, 25 May 2018 13:36:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 108671601EE; Fri, 25 May 2018 13:36:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id NlFw-7nfbRMT; Fri, 25 May 2018 13:36:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E6CA91600B2; Fri, 25 May 2018 13:36:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness To: Phillip Lord , Emacs-Devel devel References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> From: Paul Eggert Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=eggert@cs.ucla.edu; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBEyAcmQBEADAAyH2xoTu7ppG5D3a8FMZEon74dCvc4+q1XA2J2tBy2pwaTqfhpxxdGA9 Jj50UJ3PD4bSUEgN8tLZ0san47l5XTAFLi2456ciSl5m8sKaHlGdt9XmAAtmXqeZVIYX/UFS 96fDzf4xhEmm/y7LbYEPQdUdxu47xA5KhTYp5bltF3WYDz1Ygd7gx07Auwp7iw7eNvnoDTAl KAl8KYDZzbDNCQGEbpY3efZIvPdeI+FWQN4W+kghy+P6au6PrIIhYraeua7XDdb2LS1en3Ss mE3QjqfRqI/A2ue8JMwsvXe/WK38Ezs6x74iTaqI3AFH6ilAhDqpMnd/msSESNFt76DiO1ZK QMr9amVPknjfPmJISqdhgB1DlEdw34sROf6V8mZw0xfqT6PKE46LcFefzs0kbg4GORf8vjG2 Sf1tk5eU8MBiyN/bZ03bKNjNYMpODDQQwuP84kYLkX2wBxxMAhBxwbDVZudzxDZJ1C2VXujC OJVxq2kljBM9ETYuUGqd75AW2LXrLw6+MuIsHFAYAgRr7+KcwDgBAfwhPBYX34nSSiHlmLC+ KaHLeCLF5ZI2vKm3HEeCTtlOg7xZEONgwzL+fdKo+D6SoC8RRxJKs8a3sVfI4t6CnrQzvJbB n6gxdgCu5i29J1QCYrCYvql2UyFPAK+do99/1jOXT4m2836j1wARAQABzSBQYXVsIEVnZ2Vy dCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1PsLBfgQTAQIAKAUCTIByZAIbAwUJEswDAAYLCQgHAwIG FQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjRRGw/+Ij03dhYfYl/gXVRiuzV1gGrbHk+t nfrI/C7fAeoFzQ5tVgVinShaPkZo0HTPf18x6IDEdAiO8Mqo1yp0CtHmzGMCJ50o4Grgfjlr 6g/+vtEOKbhleszN2XpJvpwM2QgGvn/laTLUu8PH9aRWTs7qJJZKKKAb4sxYc92FehPu6FOD 0dDiyhlDAq4lOV2mdBpzQbiojoZzQLMQwjpgCTK2572eK9EOEQySUThXrSIz6ASenp4NYTFH s9tuJQvXk9gZDdPSl3bp+47dGxlxEWLpBIM7zIONw4ks4azgT8nvDZxA5IZHtvqBlJLBObYY 0Le61Wp0y3TlBDh2qdK8eYL426W4scEMSuig5gb8OAtQiBW6k2sGUxxeiv8ovWu8YAZgKJfu oWI+uRnMEddruY8JsoM54KaKvZikkKs2bg1ndtLVzHpJ6qFZC7QVjeHUh6/BmgvdjWPZYFTt N+KA9CWX3GQKKgN3uu988yznD7LnB98T4EUH1HA/GnfBqMV1gpzTvPc4qVQinCmIkEFp83zl +G5fCjJJ3W7ivzCnYo4KhKLpFUm97okTKR2LW3xZzEW4cLSWO387MTK3CzDOx5qe6s4a91Zu ZM/j/TQdTLDaqNn83kA4Hq48UHXYxcIh+Nd8k/3w6lFuoK0wrOFiywjLx+0ur5jmmbecBGHc 1xdhAFHOwU0ETIByZAEQAKaF678T9wyH4wjTrV1Pz3cDEoSnV/0ZUrOT37p1dcGyj/IXq1x6 70HRVahAmk0sZpYc25PF9D5GPYHFWlNjuPU96rDndXB3hedmBRhLdC4bAXjI4DV+bmdVe+q/ IMnlZRaVlm9EiMCVAR6w13sReu7qXkW9r3RwY2AzXskp/tAe4BRKr1Zmbvi2nbnQ6epEC42r Rbx0B1EhjbIQZ5JHGk24iPT7LdBgnNmos5wYjzwNlkMQD5T0Ydzhk7J+UxwA5m46mOhRDC2r FV/A0gm5TLy8DXjv/Esc4gYnYai6SQqnUEVh5LuV8YCJBnijs+Tiw71x1icmn6xGI45EugJO gec+rLypYgpVp4x0HI5T88qBRYCkxH3Kg8Qo+EWNA9A4LRQ9DX8njona0gf0s03tocK8kBN6 6UoqqPtHBnc4eMgBymCflK12eKfd2YYxnyg9cZazWA5VslvTxpm76hbg5oiAEH/Vg/8MxHyA nPhfrgwyPrmJEcVBafdspJnYQxBYNco2LFPIhlOvWh8r4at+s+M3Lb26oUTczlgdW1Sf3SDA 77BMRnF0FQyE+7AzV79MBN4ykiqaezQxtaF1Fy/tvkhffSo8u+dwG0EgJh+te38gTcISVr0G IPplLz6YhjrbHrPRF1CN5UuL9DBGjxuN35RLNVEfta6RUFlR6NctTjvrABEBAAHCwWUEGAEC AA8FAkyAcmQCGwwFCRLMAwAACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjSrHA/+KzAKvTxRhA9MWNLxIyJ7S5uJ16gs T3oCjZrBKGEhKMOGX4O0GA6VOEryO7QRCCYah3oxSG38IAnNeiwJXgU9Bzkk85UGbPEd7HGF /VSeHCQwWou6jqUDTSDvn9YhNTdG0KXPM74aC+xr2Zow1O2mhXihgWKD0Dw+0LYPnUOsQ0KO FxHXXYHmRrS1OZPU59BLvc+TRhIhafSHKLwbXK+6ckkxBx6h8z5ccpG0Qs4bFhdFYnFrEieD LoGmnE2YLhdV6swJ9VNCS6pLiEohT3fm7aXm15tZOIyzMZhHRSAPblXxQ0ZSWjq8oRrcYNFx c4W1URpAkBCOYJoXvQfD5L3lqAl8TCqDUzYxhH/tJhbDdHrqHH767jaDaTB1+Talp/2AMKwc XNOdiklGxbmHVG6YGl6g8Lrbsu9NZEI4yLlHzuikthJWgz+3vZhVGyNlt+HNIoF6CjDL2omu 5cEq4RDHM44QqPk6l7O0pUvN1mT4B+S1b08RKpqm/ff015E37HNV/piIvJlxGAYz8PSfuGCB 1thMYqlmgdhd9/BabGFbGGYHA6U4/T5zqU+f6xHy1SsAQZ1MSKlLwekBIT+4/cLRGqCHjnV0 q5H/T6a7t5mPkbzSrOLSo4puj+IToNjYyYIDBWzhlA19avOa+rvUjmHtD3sFN7cXWtkGoi8b uNcby4U= Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <85133880-5ae1-223a-50e6-4646adbf8052@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 13:36:03 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------9155CDE1424DD4CFAD5C4BE2" Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------9155CDE1424DD4CFAD5C4BE2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 05/24/2018 01:46 PM, Phillip Lord wrote: > I would like to propose that we now remove this on master, > Given the compatibility concerns expressed, how about the attached patch instead? 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25 May 2018 22:34:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48827 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMLI5-00011T-Vd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 18:34:30 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([78.129.138.110]:57016) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMLI4-00011D-FN; Fri, 25 May 2018 18:34:29 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=7Qoj3AW0/oiQLQeCHkgQIKk9HGUTx6Zd9qBzOR8xaso=; b=xS+SBQUzXoqJ3/yFCziYwNgQf sWOe5V4I67vrtEnWUCDYPa3J9YQa8MoH3I/8NhpU0FpLHo7afTPyowB5slbgrusURm8RedLXcSoem 8JWQ5+Fnqzl7AXPTdhKwCPHnPsMBKpVQX1qwbYh1ntmCCVTr8Oko+rHDxGkdrokkzsAfDbt5ZJzdR mSZDRdBr5H/5XvKb+li2O1GWANFwd0BhxIajmMza1GnS9+MChEbjKQe810LH4vbynANKcFCOT1BUH LRHyQ3oNVCaCwsgfFMpi9LM4HgHrrZ1ptxLupny0yOHKMUzHBq5z4RrDfoySmn9bh58x1H2uREWLq QED3UTTaw==; Received: from cpc142652-benw12-2-0-cust953.16-2.cable.virginm.net ([82.21.43.186]:55364 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1fMLHx-0008Vv-Ew; Fri, 25 May 2018 22:34:21 +0000 From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) To: Paul Eggert Subject: Re: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <6443412a-5803-d9c0-1ef3-ece7f49c43e1@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 23:34:20 +0100 In-Reply-To: <6443412a-5803-d9c0-1ef3-ece7f49c43e1@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Thu, 24 May 2018 15:03:56 -0700") Message-ID: <87k1rrl5zn.fsf@russet.org.uk> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , Emacs-Devel devel X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Paul Eggert writes: > Bash 4.4 came out only in September 2016, and it's too soon to assume > it. For example, my students regularly use Emacs on a server running > RHEL 7, which ships Bash 4.2.46, and as I understand it, this is the > most recent RHEL available. Well, Emacs-27 will come out in 2020, so that's 4 years lead time. And the most recent of RHEL also ships with Emacs-24. So, by the time RHEL ships Emacs-27, good chance it will ship Bash 4.4. > How about this idea: At Emacs build time, we check whether Bash is 4.4 > or later, and if so we use a term.el that assumes bash 4.4 or > later. Otherwise, we use a term.el that interrogates the shell > dynamically for whether it is shell and if so what its version number > is, the first time that Emacs runs a process under a shell. Well, the latter half we could do (I don't think the build idea makes sense). But I was hoping to make life simpler, not more complex. Phil From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 25 18:49:59 2018 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2018 22:49:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48835 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMLX5-0001Pw-HE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 18:49:59 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([78.129.138.110]:59134) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMLX4-0001Ph-By; Fri, 25 May 2018 18:49:58 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=x0Fz4AyOsDR05JWyeFDdHspggKyK1HHkSHrHklU0ZEg=; b=NWQNbFvcwe6y82vplNzJr0JDT S8iAqm7mmMQqUGnlT/Uwpf1VH/oFcfEPFMeNpm7jwab8j9NNx/z1a1hkv3yojO2bm7Sre5Y4e/1Hv vOagB2P4OdOb+YSeHBbPf0oXYFES/KlUE34EhcXwPnk/zq/tEzq2Fk9XI7g2aTYrwOjwMnnKVFos1 05+PEOm9H8QODvDY5ohmBHpQPFvla4jHycma6zBqpI4hv2Ydz1Orb0BDL3hS10BlmVCrMrbyyQ1+r 6wxWCJDVE5ZTNvYPRjXyDtjnudgR2GesQMOyIU9BXk19wdLd0F9Fkgg7XXS5DQHgJ+MeplziQr3v9 lT9aH/L/g==; Received: from cpc142652-benw12-2-0-cust953.16-2.cable.virginm.net ([82.21.43.186]:55420 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1fMLWy-0001wp-56; Fri, 25 May 2018 22:49:52 +0000 From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) To: Paul Eggert Subject: Re: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <85133880-5ae1-223a-50e6-4646adbf8052@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 23:49:51 +0100 In-Reply-To: <85133880-5ae1-223a-50e6-4646adbf8052@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Fri, 25 May 2018 13:36:03 -0700") Message-ID: <87fu2fl59s.fsf@russet.org.uk> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , Emacs-Devel devel X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Paul Eggert writes: > On 05/24/2018 01:46 PM, Phillip Lord wrote: >> I would like to propose that we now remove this on master, >> > > Given the compatibility concerns expressed, how about the attached > patch instead? The idea is to remove the need to setenv EMACS with > newer Bashes, while still setting EMACS for older Bashes, for backward > compatibility. > > From f7efdc4d21c22a81398b06cdc58144ec2f9c7697 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 > From: Paul Eggert > Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 13:25:51 -0700 > Subject: [PROPOSED] =?UTF-8?q?Don=E2=80=99t=20set=20EMACS=3Dt=20if=20Bash?= > =?UTF-8?q?=20is=204.4=20or=20newer?= > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > * lisp/term.el (term--bash-needs-EMACS-status): New var. > (term--bash-needs-EMACSp): New function. > (term-exec-1): Use it instead of always setting EMACS. > --- > lisp/term.el | 31 +++++++++++++++++++++++++------ > 1 file changed, 25 insertions(+), 6 deletions(-) > > diff --git a/lisp/term.el b/lisp/term.el > index 017b0221ec..fa43774ae8 100644 > --- a/lisp/term.el > +++ b/lisp/term.el > @@ -1489,6 +1489,26 @@ term-termcap-format > ;; don't define :te=\\E[2J\\E[?47l\\E8:ti=\\E7\\E[?47h\ > "Termcap capabilities supported.") > > +;; This is for backwards compatibility with Bash 4.3 and earlier. > +;; Remove this hack once Bash 4.4-or-later is reasonably universal, because > +;; it slows down execution slightly, just before the first subshell. > +(defvar term--bash-needs-EMACS-status nil > + "43 if Bash is so old that it needs EMACS set. > +Some other integer if Bash is new or not in use. > +Nil if unknown.") > +(defun term--bash-needs-EMACSp () > + "t if Bash is old, nil if it is new or not in use." > + (unless term--bash-needs-EMACS-status > + (let ((process-environment (copy-sequence process-environment))) > + (setenv "BASH_ENV") > + (setq term--bash-needs-EMACS-status > + (condition-case nil > + (call-process > + "bash" nil nil nil "-c" > + "case $BASH_VERSION in [0123].*|4.[0123].*) exit 43;; esac") > + (error 0))))) > + (eq 43 term--bash-needs-EMACS-status)) > + > ;; This auxiliary function cranks up the process for term-exec in > ;; the appropriate environment. > > @@ -1506,12 +1526,6 @@ term-exec-1 > (format term-termcap-format "TERMCAP=" > term-term-name term-height term-width) > > - ;; This is for backwards compatibility with Bash 4.3 and earlier. > - ;; Remove this hack once Bash 4.4-or-later is common, because > - ;; it breaks './configure' of some packages that expect it to > - ;; say where to find EMACS. > - (format "EMACS=%s (term:%s)" emacs-version term-protocol-version) > - > (format "INSIDE_EMACS=%s,term:%s" emacs-version term-protocol-version) > (format "LINES=%d" term-height) > (format "COLUMNS=%d" term-width)) > @@ -1523,6 +1537,11 @@ term-exec-1 > ;; escape codes, so we need to see the raw output. We will have to > ;; do the decoding by hand on the parts that are made of chars. > (coding-system-for-read 'binary)) > + (when (term--bash-needs-EMACSp) > + (setq process-environment > + (cons > + (format "EMACS=%s (term:%s)" emacs-version term-protocol-version) > + process-environment))) > (apply 'start-process name buffer > "/bin/sh" "-c" > (format "stty -nl echo rows %d columns %d sane 2>/dev/null;\ It's a solution, afaict. However, one which is more complex than we already have. The problem with RHEL probably only effects weird people like you (and me!) who use a stock bash on an old RHEL, then compile the latest Emacs. And us weird people could probably circumvent the problem with term anyway. You, Stefan and Eli have far more experience here clearly. Happy with what ever you decide. Phil From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 26 03:20:42 2018 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 May 2018 07:20:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48974 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMTVK-0004VQ-1O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 May 2018 03:20:42 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:34445) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMTVI-0004VA-5W for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 May 2018 03:20:40 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fMTV9-0002YL-5s for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 May 2018 03:20:35 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:59029) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fMTV9-0002YH-2a; Sat, 26 May 2018 03:20:31 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3328 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1fMTV8-0001On-Fg; Sat, 26 May 2018 03:20:30 -0400 Date: Sat, 26 May 2018 10:20:17 +0300 Message-Id: <831sdyanny.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Paul Eggert In-reply-to: <85133880-5ae1-223a-50e6-4646adbf8052@cs.ucla.edu> (message from Paul Eggert on Fri, 25 May 2018 13:36:03 -0700) Subject: Re: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <85133880-5ae1-223a-50e6-4646adbf8052@cs.ucla.edu> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Paul Eggert > Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 13:36:03 -0700 > Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , > 20484@debbugs.gnu.org > > Given the compatibility concerns expressed, how about the attached patch > instead? I like it because it is future proof, and makes our burden of remembering this issue easier. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 26 16:54:58 2018 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 May 2018 20:54:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49952 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMgDK-0004RS-J5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 May 2018 16:54:58 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:48546) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMgDI-0004R9-1Q; Sat, 26 May 2018 16:54:56 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1F991605EA; Sat, 26 May 2018 13:54:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id UQz05povvoVN; Sat, 26 May 2018 13:54:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AE13160615; Sat, 26 May 2018 13:54:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id saYTjQk7UMco; Sat, 26 May 2018 13:54:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [47.154.30.119]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E28731605EA; Sat, 26 May 2018 13:54:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness To: Eli Zaretskii References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <85133880-5ae1-223a-50e6-4646adbf8052@cs.ucla.edu> <831sdyanny.fsf@gnu.org> From: Paul Eggert Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=eggert@cs.ucla.edu; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBEyAcmQBEADAAyH2xoTu7ppG5D3a8FMZEon74dCvc4+q1XA2J2tBy2pwaTqfhpxxdGA9 Jj50UJ3PD4bSUEgN8tLZ0san47l5XTAFLi2456ciSl5m8sKaHlGdt9XmAAtmXqeZVIYX/UFS 96fDzf4xhEmm/y7LbYEPQdUdxu47xA5KhTYp5bltF3WYDz1Ygd7gx07Auwp7iw7eNvnoDTAl KAl8KYDZzbDNCQGEbpY3efZIvPdeI+FWQN4W+kghy+P6au6PrIIhYraeua7XDdb2LS1en3Ss mE3QjqfRqI/A2ue8JMwsvXe/WK38Ezs6x74iTaqI3AFH6ilAhDqpMnd/msSESNFt76DiO1ZK QMr9amVPknjfPmJISqdhgB1DlEdw34sROf6V8mZw0xfqT6PKE46LcFefzs0kbg4GORf8vjG2 Sf1tk5eU8MBiyN/bZ03bKNjNYMpODDQQwuP84kYLkX2wBxxMAhBxwbDVZudzxDZJ1C2VXujC OJVxq2kljBM9ETYuUGqd75AW2LXrLw6+MuIsHFAYAgRr7+KcwDgBAfwhPBYX34nSSiHlmLC+ KaHLeCLF5ZI2vKm3HEeCTtlOg7xZEONgwzL+fdKo+D6SoC8RRxJKs8a3sVfI4t6CnrQzvJbB n6gxdgCu5i29J1QCYrCYvql2UyFPAK+do99/1jOXT4m2836j1wARAQABzSBQYXVsIEVnZ2Vy dCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1PsLBfgQTAQIAKAUCTIByZAIbAwUJEswDAAYLCQgHAwIG FQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjRRGw/+Ij03dhYfYl/gXVRiuzV1gGrbHk+t nfrI/C7fAeoFzQ5tVgVinShaPkZo0HTPf18x6IDEdAiO8Mqo1yp0CtHmzGMCJ50o4Grgfjlr 6g/+vtEOKbhleszN2XpJvpwM2QgGvn/laTLUu8PH9aRWTs7qJJZKKKAb4sxYc92FehPu6FOD 0dDiyhlDAq4lOV2mdBpzQbiojoZzQLMQwjpgCTK2572eK9EOEQySUThXrSIz6ASenp4NYTFH s9tuJQvXk9gZDdPSl3bp+47dGxlxEWLpBIM7zIONw4ks4azgT8nvDZxA5IZHtvqBlJLBObYY 0Le61Wp0y3TlBDh2qdK8eYL426W4scEMSuig5gb8OAtQiBW6k2sGUxxeiv8ovWu8YAZgKJfu oWI+uRnMEddruY8JsoM54KaKvZikkKs2bg1ndtLVzHpJ6qFZC7QVjeHUh6/BmgvdjWPZYFTt N+KA9CWX3GQKKgN3uu988yznD7LnB98T4EUH1HA/GnfBqMV1gpzTvPc4qVQinCmIkEFp83zl +G5fCjJJ3W7ivzCnYo4KhKLpFUm97okTKR2LW3xZzEW4cLSWO387MTK3CzDOx5qe6s4a91Zu ZM/j/TQdTLDaqNn83kA4Hq48UHXYxcIh+Nd8k/3w6lFuoK0wrOFiywjLx+0ur5jmmbecBGHc 1xdhAFHOwU0ETIByZAEQAKaF678T9wyH4wjTrV1Pz3cDEoSnV/0ZUrOT37p1dcGyj/IXq1x6 70HRVahAmk0sZpYc25PF9D5GPYHFWlNjuPU96rDndXB3hedmBRhLdC4bAXjI4DV+bmdVe+q/ IMnlZRaVlm9EiMCVAR6w13sReu7qXkW9r3RwY2AzXskp/tAe4BRKr1Zmbvi2nbnQ6epEC42r Rbx0B1EhjbIQZ5JHGk24iPT7LdBgnNmos5wYjzwNlkMQD5T0Ydzhk7J+UxwA5m46mOhRDC2r FV/A0gm5TLy8DXjv/Esc4gYnYai6SQqnUEVh5LuV8YCJBnijs+Tiw71x1icmn6xGI45EugJO gec+rLypYgpVp4x0HI5T88qBRYCkxH3Kg8Qo+EWNA9A4LRQ9DX8njona0gf0s03tocK8kBN6 6UoqqPtHBnc4eMgBymCflK12eKfd2YYxnyg9cZazWA5VslvTxpm76hbg5oiAEH/Vg/8MxHyA nPhfrgwyPrmJEcVBafdspJnYQxBYNco2LFPIhlOvWh8r4at+s+M3Lb26oUTczlgdW1Sf3SDA 77BMRnF0FQyE+7AzV79MBN4ykiqaezQxtaF1Fy/tvkhffSo8u+dwG0EgJh+te38gTcISVr0G IPplLz6YhjrbHrPRF1CN5UuL9DBGjxuN35RLNVEfta6RUFlR6NctTjvrABEBAAHCwWUEGAEC AA8FAkyAcmQCGwwFCRLMAwAACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjSrHA/+KzAKvTxRhA9MWNLxIyJ7S5uJ16gs T3oCjZrBKGEhKMOGX4O0GA6VOEryO7QRCCYah3oxSG38IAnNeiwJXgU9Bzkk85UGbPEd7HGF /VSeHCQwWou6jqUDTSDvn9YhNTdG0KXPM74aC+xr2Zow1O2mhXihgWKD0Dw+0LYPnUOsQ0KO FxHXXYHmRrS1OZPU59BLvc+TRhIhafSHKLwbXK+6ckkxBx6h8z5ccpG0Qs4bFhdFYnFrEieD LoGmnE2YLhdV6swJ9VNCS6pLiEohT3fm7aXm15tZOIyzMZhHRSAPblXxQ0ZSWjq8oRrcYNFx c4W1URpAkBCOYJoXvQfD5L3lqAl8TCqDUzYxhH/tJhbDdHrqHH767jaDaTB1+Talp/2AMKwc XNOdiklGxbmHVG6YGl6g8Lrbsu9NZEI4yLlHzuikthJWgz+3vZhVGyNlt+HNIoF6CjDL2omu 5cEq4RDHM44QqPk6l7O0pUvN1mT4B+S1b08RKpqm/ff015E37HNV/piIvJlxGAYz8PSfuGCB 1thMYqlmgdhd9/BabGFbGGYHA6U4/T5zqU+f6xHy1SsAQZ1MSKlLwekBIT+4/cLRGqCHjnV0 q5H/T6a7t5mPkbzSrOLSo4puj+IToNjYyYIDBWzhlA19avOa+rvUjmHtD3sFN7cXWtkGoi8b uNcby4U= Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: Date: Sat, 26 May 2018 13:54:46 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <831sdyanny.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------FCF4219F0431E2F78D409F77" Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: Eli Barzilay , emacs-devel@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 20202-done@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------FCF4219F0431E2F78D409F77 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eli Zaretskii wrote: > I like it because it is future proof, and makes our burden of > remembering this issue easier. >=20 > Thanks. You're welcome. Stefan privately emailed me some helpful comments that im= proved=20 the patch (thanks!), and I installed the attached into master. In the hop= e that=20 this has laid Bug#20202 to rest (at least on modern GNU systems running B= ash 4.4=20 or later), I'm boldly closing the bug report. --------------FCF4219F0431E2F78D409F77 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; name="0001-Don-t-set-EMACS-t-if-Bash-is-4.4-or-newer.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-Don-t-set-EMACS-t-if-Bash-is-4.4-or-newer.txt" RnJvbSA2ZmNhYjgzNjAwMzE3ZTk0ZWE3YjkxNWRhNzczMGE4YzdlNTAyMjZkIE1vbiBTZXAg MTcgMDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBQYXVsIEVnZ2VydCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1 PgpEYXRlOiBTYXQsIDI2IE1heSAyMDE4IDEzOjI5OjA2IC0wNzAwClN1YmplY3Q6IFtQQVRD SF0gPT9VVEYtOD9xP0Rvbj1FMj04MD05OXQ9MjBzZXQ9MjBFTUFDUz0zRHQ9MjBpZj0yMEJh c2g9MjBpPz0KID0/VVRGLTg/cT9zPTIwNC40PTIwb3I9MjBuZXdlcj89Ck1JTUUtVmVyc2lv bjogMS4wCkNvbnRlbnQtVHlwZTogdGV4dC9wbGFpbjsgY2hhcnNldD1VVEYtOApDb250ZW50 LVRyYW5zZmVyLUVuY29kaW5nOiA4Yml0CgooVGhhbmtzIHRvIFN0ZWZhbiBNb25uaWVyIGZv ciBpbXByb3ZlbWVudHMgdG8gdGhpcyBwYXRjaC4pCiogbGlzcC90ZXJtLmVsICh0ZXJtLS1i YXNoLW5lZWRzLUVNQUNTLXN0YXR1cyk6IE5ldyB2YXIuCih0ZXJtLS1iYXNoLW5lZWRzLUVN QUNTcCk6IE5ldyBmdW5jdGlvbi4KKHRlcm0tZXhlYy0xKTogVXNlIGl0IGluc3RlYWQgb2Yg YWx3YXlzIHNldHRpbmcgRU1BQ1MuCi0tLQogbGlzcC90ZXJtLmVsIHwgMzQgKysrKysrKysr KysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKy0tLS0tLQogMSBmaWxlIGNoYW5nZWQsIDI4IGluc2VydGlv bnMoKyksIDYgZGVsZXRpb25zKC0pCgpkaWZmIC0tZ2l0IGEvbGlzcC90ZXJtLmVsIGIvbGlz cC90ZXJtLmVsCmluZGV4IDAxN2IwMjIuLjE5ZTY4ZGQgMTAwNjQ0Ci0tLSBhL2xpc3AvdGVy bS5lbAorKysgYi9saXNwL3Rlcm0uZWwKQEAgLTE0ODksNiArMTQ4OSwzMSBAQCB0ZXJtLXRl cm1jYXAtZm9ybWF0CiAgIDs7IGRvbid0IGRlZmluZSA6dGU9XFxFWzJKXFxFWz80N2xcXEU4 OnRpPVxcRTdcXEVbPzQ3aFwKICAgIlRlcm1jYXAgY2FwYWJpbGl0aWVzIHN1cHBvcnRlZC4i KQogCis7OyBUaGlzIHByaXZhdGUgaGFjayBpcyBmb3IgYmFja3dhcmRzIGNvbXBhdGliaWxp dHkgd2l0aCBCYXNoIDQuMyBhbmQgZWFybGllci4KKzs7IEl0IGNhbiBiZSB1c2VmdWwgZXZl biB3aGVuIHJ1bm5pbmcgYSBwcm9ncmFtIG90aGVyIHRoYW4gQmFzaCwgYXMgdGhlCis7OyBw cm9ncmFtIG1pZ2h0IGludm9rZSBCYXNoIGFzIGFuIGludGVyYWN0aXZlIHN1YnNoZWxsLiAg U2VlIHRoaXMgdGhyZWFkOgorOzsgaHR0cHM6Ly9saXN0cy5nbnUub3JnL3IvZW1hY3MtZGV2 ZWwvMjAxOC0wNS9tc2cwMDY3MC5odG1sCis7OyBSZW1vdmUgdGhpcyBoYWNrIGFuZCBpdHMg dXNlcyBvbmNlIEJhc2ggNC40LW9yLWxhdGVyIGlzIHJlYXNvbmFibHkKKzs7IHVuaXZlcnNh bCwgYmVjYXVzZSBpdCBzbG93cyBkb3duIGV4ZWN1dGlvbiBzbGlnaHRseSB3aGVuCis7OyB0 ZXJtLS1iYXNoLW5lZWRzLUVNQUNTcCBpcyBmaXJzdCBjYWxsZWQuCisoZGVmdmFyIHRlcm0t LWJhc2gtbmVlZHMtRU1BQ1Mtc3RhdHVzIG5pbAorICAiNDMgaWYgQmFzaCBpcyBzbyBvbGQg dGhhdCBpdCBuZWVkcyBFTUFDUyBzZXQuCitTb21lIG90aGVyIGludGVnZXIgaWYgQmFzaCBp cyBuZXcgb3Igbm90IGluIHVzZS4KK05pbCBpZiB1bmtub3duLiIpCisoZGVmdW4gdGVybS0t YmFzaC1uZWVkcy1FTUFDU3AgKCkKKyAgInQgaWYgQmFzaCBpcyBvbGQsIG5pbCBpZiBpdCBp cyBuZXcgb3Igbm90IGluIHVzZS4iCisgIChlcSA0MworICAgICAgKG9yIHRlcm0tLWJhc2gt bmVlZHMtRU1BQ1Mtc3RhdHVzCisgICAgICAgICAgKHNldGYKKyAgICAgICAgICAgdGVybS0t YmFzaC1uZWVkcy1FTUFDUy1zdGF0dXMKKyAgICAgICAgICAgKGxldCAoKHByb2Nlc3MtZW52 aXJvbm1lbnQKKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIChjb25zICJCQVNIX0VOViIgcHJvY2Vzcy1l bnZpcm9ubWVudCkpKQorICAgICAgICAgICAgIChjb25kaXRpb24tY2FzZSBuaWwKKyAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgKGNhbGwtcHJvY2VzcworICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgImJhc2giIG5p bCBuaWwgbmlsICItYyIKKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICJjYXNlICRCQVNIX1ZFUlNJT04g aW4gWzAxMjNdLip8NC5bMDEyM10uKikgZXhpdCA0Mzs7IGVzYWMiKQorICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgKGVycm9yIDApKSkpKSkpCisKIDs7IFRoaXMgYXV4aWxpYXJ5IGZ1bmN0aW9uIGNyYW5r cyB1cCB0aGUgcHJvY2VzcyBmb3IgdGVybS1leGVjIGluCiA7OyB0aGUgYXBwcm9wcmlhdGUg ZW52aXJvbm1lbnQuCiAKQEAgLTE1MDYsMTIgKzE1MzEsNiBAQCB0ZXJtLWV4ZWMtMQogCSAg IChmb3JtYXQgdGVybS10ZXJtY2FwLWZvcm1hdCAiVEVSTUNBUD0iCiAJCSAgIHRlcm0tdGVy bS1uYW1lIHRlcm0taGVpZ2h0IHRlcm0td2lkdGgpCiAKLQkgICA7OyBUaGlzIGlzIGZvciBi YWNrd2FyZHMgY29tcGF0aWJpbGl0eSB3aXRoIEJhc2ggNC4zIGFuZCBlYXJsaWVyLgotCSAg IDs7IFJlbW92ZSB0aGlzIGhhY2sgb25jZSBCYXNoIDQuNC1vci1sYXRlciBpcyBjb21tb24s IGJlY2F1c2UKLQkgICA7OyBpdCBicmVha3MgJy4vY29uZmlndXJlJyBvZiBzb21lIHBhY2th Z2VzIHRoYXQgZXhwZWN0IGl0IHRvCi0JICAgOzsgc2F5IHdoZXJlIHRvIGZpbmQgRU1BQ1Mu Ci0JICAgKGZvcm1hdCAiRU1BQ1M9JXMgKHRlcm06JXMpIiBlbWFjcy12ZXJzaW9uIHRlcm0t cHJvdG9jb2wtdmVyc2lvbikKLQogCSAgIChmb3JtYXQgIklOU0lERV9FTUFDUz0lcyx0ZXJt OiVzIiBlbWFjcy12ZXJzaW9uIHRlcm0tcHJvdG9jb2wtdmVyc2lvbikKIAkgICAoZm9ybWF0 ICJMSU5FUz0lZCIgdGVybS1oZWlnaHQpCiAJICAgKGZvcm1hdCAiQ09MVU1OUz0lZCIgdGVy bS13aWR0aCkpCkBAIC0xNTIzLDYgKzE1NDIsOSBAQCB0ZXJtLWV4ZWMtMQogCTs7IGVzY2Fw ZSBjb2Rlcywgc28gd2UgbmVlZCB0byBzZWUgdGhlIHJhdyBvdXRwdXQuICBXZSB3aWxsIGhh dmUgdG8KIAk7OyBkbyB0aGUgZGVjb2RpbmcgYnkgaGFuZCBvbiB0aGUgcGFydHMgdGhhdCBh cmUgbWFkZSBvZiBjaGFycy4KIAkoY29kaW5nLXN5c3RlbS1mb3ItcmVhZCAnYmluYXJ5KSkK KyAgICAod2hlbiAodGVybS0tYmFzaC1uZWVkcy1FTUFDU3ApCisgICAgICAocHVzaCAoZm9y bWF0ICJFTUFDUz0lcyAodGVybTolcykiIGVtYWNzLXZlcnNpb24gdGVybS1wcm90b2NvbC12 ZXJzaW9uKQorICAgICAgICAgICAgcHJvY2Vzcy1lbnZpcm9ubWVudCkpCiAgICAgKGFwcGx5 ICdzdGFydC1wcm9jZXNzIG5hbWUgYnVmZmVyCiAJICAgIi9iaW4vc2giICItYyIKIAkgICAo Zm9ybWF0ICJzdHR5IC1ubCBlY2hvIHJvd3MgJWQgY29sdW1ucyAlZCBzYW5lIDI+L2Rldi9u dWxsO1wKLS0gCjIuNy40Cgo= --------------FCF4219F0431E2F78D409F77-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu May 31 17:13:09 2018 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 May 2018 21:13:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56328 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fOUsf-0006HT-1s for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 31 May 2018 17:13:09 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([78.129.138.110]:38646) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fOUsd-0006Gs-5c; Thu, 31 May 2018 17:13:07 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID :Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=qfSbC0GwKRNUQLhdUXhMRZsxbDsVbQN97F761kxLutE=; b=dgJ4zJuiKJJJfxN7AQUiiJkqS oM2YTefTbWuKzwrZDM0qslyhOQcRI/VyNGUnMVCwf5o+TOoiKBH9nF7rk9DOmphZV8RU95tUj3zUv f0XXC9ZwqZ5v3cHMx1tloMEBylHGh0nX7btQZcH7NjvH9zrAn0/l9Abu6xq4zvw2iMcW3Xkx0jxT6 pxwGZuZuTQgBcQcP5stgh1GECcle7LR130dPOEss1hPqslnA1qlOs5N9CXNdQQenTGufJNIXV7vUs 70cI36YPC3TrMinHslybSJagNDoEQKjUk+yGSfeRm3G9z7c+pZyjd7Qff4Kdh0RmhRkq3tVQIX0qS w+TT52zyQ==; Received: from cpc142652-benw12-2-0-cust953.16-2.cable.virginm.net ([82.21.43.186]:39672 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1fOUsW-0004S1-0u; Thu, 31 May 2018 21:13:00 +0000 From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) To: Paul Eggert Subject: Re: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness In-Reply-To: (Paul Eggert's message of "Sat, 26 May 2018 13:54:46 -0700") Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 22:07:49 +0100 Message-ID: <87muwf4jq2.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <85133880-5ae1-223a-50e6-4646adbf8052@cs.ucla.edu> <831sdyanny.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: Eli Barzilay , emacs-devel@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, Eli Zaretskii , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Paul Eggert writes: > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> I like it because it is future proof, and makes our burden of >> remembering this issue easier. >> >> Thanks. > > You're welcome. Stefan privately emailed me some helpful comments that > improved the patch (thanks!), and I installed the attached into > master. In the hope that this has laid Bug#20202 to rest (at least on > modern GNU systems running Bash 4.4 or later), I'm boldly closing the > bug report. Not wishing to reopen the bug report that you have so boldly closed, given that this would appear to be a conservative change rather than the breaking one I was suggesting, any reason why this can't be installed on emacs-26? Phil From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu May 31 19:46:08 2018 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 May 2018 23:46:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56387 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fOXGh-0002Gq-PN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 31 May 2018 19:46:07 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:41868) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fOXGg-0002G0-DV; Thu, 31 May 2018 19:46:07 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9319E16005A; Thu, 31 May 2018 16:46:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id jiIE4u7Ua2WW; Thu, 31 May 2018 16:45:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D86CD1606CC; Thu, 31 May 2018 16:45:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id y6kGh9F8Qmtw; Thu, 31 May 2018 16:45:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BA2B916005A; Thu, 31 May 2018 16:45:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness To: Phillip Lord References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <85133880-5ae1-223a-50e6-4646adbf8052@cs.ucla.edu> <831sdyanny.fsf@gnu.org> <87muwf4jq2.fsf@russet.org.uk> From: Paul Eggert Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=eggert@cs.ucla.edu; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBEyAcmQBEADAAyH2xoTu7ppG5D3a8FMZEon74dCvc4+q1XA2J2tBy2pwaTqfhpxxdGA9 Jj50UJ3PD4bSUEgN8tLZ0san47l5XTAFLi2456ciSl5m8sKaHlGdt9XmAAtmXqeZVIYX/UFS 96fDzf4xhEmm/y7LbYEPQdUdxu47xA5KhTYp5bltF3WYDz1Ygd7gx07Auwp7iw7eNvnoDTAl KAl8KYDZzbDNCQGEbpY3efZIvPdeI+FWQN4W+kghy+P6au6PrIIhYraeua7XDdb2LS1en3Ss mE3QjqfRqI/A2ue8JMwsvXe/WK38Ezs6x74iTaqI3AFH6ilAhDqpMnd/msSESNFt76DiO1ZK QMr9amVPknjfPmJISqdhgB1DlEdw34sROf6V8mZw0xfqT6PKE46LcFefzs0kbg4GORf8vjG2 Sf1tk5eU8MBiyN/bZ03bKNjNYMpODDQQwuP84kYLkX2wBxxMAhBxwbDVZudzxDZJ1C2VXujC OJVxq2kljBM9ETYuUGqd75AW2LXrLw6+MuIsHFAYAgRr7+KcwDgBAfwhPBYX34nSSiHlmLC+ KaHLeCLF5ZI2vKm3HEeCTtlOg7xZEONgwzL+fdKo+D6SoC8RRxJKs8a3sVfI4t6CnrQzvJbB n6gxdgCu5i29J1QCYrCYvql2UyFPAK+do99/1jOXT4m2836j1wARAQABzSBQYXVsIEVnZ2Vy dCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1PsLBfgQTAQIAKAUCTIByZAIbAwUJEswDAAYLCQgHAwIG FQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjRRGw/+Ij03dhYfYl/gXVRiuzV1gGrbHk+t nfrI/C7fAeoFzQ5tVgVinShaPkZo0HTPf18x6IDEdAiO8Mqo1yp0CtHmzGMCJ50o4Grgfjlr 6g/+vtEOKbhleszN2XpJvpwM2QgGvn/laTLUu8PH9aRWTs7qJJZKKKAb4sxYc92FehPu6FOD 0dDiyhlDAq4lOV2mdBpzQbiojoZzQLMQwjpgCTK2572eK9EOEQySUThXrSIz6ASenp4NYTFH s9tuJQvXk9gZDdPSl3bp+47dGxlxEWLpBIM7zIONw4ks4azgT8nvDZxA5IZHtvqBlJLBObYY 0Le61Wp0y3TlBDh2qdK8eYL426W4scEMSuig5gb8OAtQiBW6k2sGUxxeiv8ovWu8YAZgKJfu oWI+uRnMEddruY8JsoM54KaKvZikkKs2bg1ndtLVzHpJ6qFZC7QVjeHUh6/BmgvdjWPZYFTt N+KA9CWX3GQKKgN3uu988yznD7LnB98T4EUH1HA/GnfBqMV1gpzTvPc4qVQinCmIkEFp83zl +G5fCjJJ3W7ivzCnYo4KhKLpFUm97okTKR2LW3xZzEW4cLSWO387MTK3CzDOx5qe6s4a91Zu ZM/j/TQdTLDaqNn83kA4Hq48UHXYxcIh+Nd8k/3w6lFuoK0wrOFiywjLx+0ur5jmmbecBGHc 1xdhAFHOwU0ETIByZAEQAKaF678T9wyH4wjTrV1Pz3cDEoSnV/0ZUrOT37p1dcGyj/IXq1x6 70HRVahAmk0sZpYc25PF9D5GPYHFWlNjuPU96rDndXB3hedmBRhLdC4bAXjI4DV+bmdVe+q/ IMnlZRaVlm9EiMCVAR6w13sReu7qXkW9r3RwY2AzXskp/tAe4BRKr1Zmbvi2nbnQ6epEC42r Rbx0B1EhjbIQZ5JHGk24iPT7LdBgnNmos5wYjzwNlkMQD5T0Ydzhk7J+UxwA5m46mOhRDC2r FV/A0gm5TLy8DXjv/Esc4gYnYai6SQqnUEVh5LuV8YCJBnijs+Tiw71x1icmn6xGI45EugJO gec+rLypYgpVp4x0HI5T88qBRYCkxH3Kg8Qo+EWNA9A4LRQ9DX8njona0gf0s03tocK8kBN6 6UoqqPtHBnc4eMgBymCflK12eKfd2YYxnyg9cZazWA5VslvTxpm76hbg5oiAEH/Vg/8MxHyA nPhfrgwyPrmJEcVBafdspJnYQxBYNco2LFPIhlOvWh8r4at+s+M3Lb26oUTczlgdW1Sf3SDA 77BMRnF0FQyE+7AzV79MBN4ykiqaezQxtaF1Fy/tvkhffSo8u+dwG0EgJh+te38gTcISVr0G IPplLz6YhjrbHrPRF1CN5UuL9DBGjxuN35RLNVEfta6RUFlR6NctTjvrABEBAAHCwWUEGAEC AA8FAkyAcmQCGwwFCRLMAwAACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjSrHA/+KzAKvTxRhA9MWNLxIyJ7S5uJ16gs T3oCjZrBKGEhKMOGX4O0GA6VOEryO7QRCCYah3oxSG38IAnNeiwJXgU9Bzkk85UGbPEd7HGF /VSeHCQwWou6jqUDTSDvn9YhNTdG0KXPM74aC+xr2Zow1O2mhXihgWKD0Dw+0LYPnUOsQ0KO FxHXXYHmRrS1OZPU59BLvc+TRhIhafSHKLwbXK+6ckkxBx6h8z5ccpG0Qs4bFhdFYnFrEieD LoGmnE2YLhdV6swJ9VNCS6pLiEohT3fm7aXm15tZOIyzMZhHRSAPblXxQ0ZSWjq8oRrcYNFx c4W1URpAkBCOYJoXvQfD5L3lqAl8TCqDUzYxhH/tJhbDdHrqHH767jaDaTB1+Talp/2AMKwc XNOdiklGxbmHVG6YGl6g8Lrbsu9NZEI4yLlHzuikthJWgz+3vZhVGyNlt+HNIoF6CjDL2omu 5cEq4RDHM44QqPk6l7O0pUvN1mT4B+S1b08RKpqm/ff015E37HNV/piIvJlxGAYz8PSfuGCB 1thMYqlmgdhd9/BabGFbGGYHA6U4/T5zqU+f6xHy1SsAQZ1MSKlLwekBIT+4/cLRGqCHjnV0 q5H/T6a7t5mPkbzSrOLSo4puj+IToNjYyYIDBWzhlA19avOa+rvUjmHtD3sFN7cXWtkGoi8b uNcby4U= Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <4ce6b85e-d600-872d-2a78-d9203d8c8259@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 16:45:59 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87muwf4jq2.fsf@russet.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: Eli Barzilay , emacs-devel@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, Eli Zaretskii , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On 05/31/2018 02:07 PM, Phillip Lord wrote: > any reason why this can't be installed > on emacs-26? None that I know of. Will there be a 26.2, though? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu May 31 21:56:30 2018 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jun 2018 01:56:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56425 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fOZIs-0001B8-01 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 31 May 2018 21:56:30 -0400 Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:47759) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fOZIp-0001Av-Uz; Thu, 31 May 2018 21:56:28 -0400 Received: from pastel.home (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.7/8.14.1) with ESMTP id w511ucw0006277; Thu, 31 May 2018 21:56:38 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id B68D5652F0; Thu, 31 May 2018 21:56:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Paul Eggert Subject: Re: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness Message-ID: References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <85133880-5ae1-223a-50e6-4646adbf8052@cs.ucla.edu> <831sdyanny.fsf@gnu.org> <87muwf4jq2.fsf@russet.org.uk> <4ce6b85e-d600-872d-2a78-d9203d8c8259@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 21:56:14 -0400 In-Reply-To: <4ce6b85e-d600-872d-2a78-d9203d8c8259@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Thu, 31 May 2018 16:45:59 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.1 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 3 Rules triggered GEN_SPAM_FEATRE=0.1, EDT_SA_DN_PASS=0, RV6298=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <6298> : inlines <6672> : streams <1788383> : uri <2650561> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: Eli Barzilay , emacs-devel@gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , Phillip Lord , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > None that I know of. Will there be a 26.2, though? I'd be surprised if we don't need to make a 26.2 before 27.1. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jun 01 03:05:05 2018 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jun 2018 07:05:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56579 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fOe7V-0003Jf-3M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 03:05:05 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:33416) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fOe7R-0003Iy-Qe for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 03:05:02 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fOe7M-0004ED-1P for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 03:04:56 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:36285) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fOe75-0003jF-2x; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 03:04:39 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3765 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1fOe74-0000Bq-DI; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 03:04:38 -0400 Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 10:04:38 +0300 Message-Id: <836033gf7d.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Paul Eggert In-reply-to: <4ce6b85e-d600-872d-2a78-d9203d8c8259@cs.ucla.edu> (message from Paul Eggert on Thu, 31 May 2018 16:45:59 -0700) Subject: Re: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <85133880-5ae1-223a-50e6-4646adbf8052@cs.ucla.edu> <831sdyanny.fsf@gnu.org> <87muwf4jq2.fsf@russet.org.uk> <4ce6b85e-d600-872d-2a78-d9203d8c8259@cs.ucla.edu> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: eli@barzilay.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, > 20202-done@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, > Eli Barzilay > From: Paul Eggert > Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 16:45:59 -0700 > > On 05/31/2018 02:07 PM, Phillip Lord wrote: > > any reason why this can't be installed > > on emacs-26? > > None that I know of. Will there be a 26.2, though? Yes, I'm quite sure it will be. So if we want this change backported to Emacs 26.2, we can do that now. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jun 01 10:09:06 2018 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jun 2018 14:09:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58089 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fOkjq-0001EW-Pj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 10:09:06 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:36568) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fOkjo-0001Dw-KN; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 10:09:05 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD558160729; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 07:08:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id KDmbIVniZbOE; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 07:08:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id F006D160725; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 07:08:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id RLcHIvhvs_f4; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 07:08:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [47.154.30.119]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 520B61606C8; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 07:08:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness To: Eli Zaretskii References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <85133880-5ae1-223a-50e6-4646adbf8052@cs.ucla.edu> <831sdyanny.fsf@gnu.org> <87muwf4jq2.fsf@russet.org.uk> <4ce6b85e-d600-872d-2a78-d9203d8c8259@cs.ucla.edu> <836033gf7d.fsf@gnu.org> From: Paul Eggert Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=eggert@cs.ucla.edu; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBEyAcmQBEADAAyH2xoTu7ppG5D3a8FMZEon74dCvc4+q1XA2J2tBy2pwaTqfhpxxdGA9 Jj50UJ3PD4bSUEgN8tLZ0san47l5XTAFLi2456ciSl5m8sKaHlGdt9XmAAtmXqeZVIYX/UFS 96fDzf4xhEmm/y7LbYEPQdUdxu47xA5KhTYp5bltF3WYDz1Ygd7gx07Auwp7iw7eNvnoDTAl KAl8KYDZzbDNCQGEbpY3efZIvPdeI+FWQN4W+kghy+P6au6PrIIhYraeua7XDdb2LS1en3Ss mE3QjqfRqI/A2ue8JMwsvXe/WK38Ezs6x74iTaqI3AFH6ilAhDqpMnd/msSESNFt76DiO1ZK QMr9amVPknjfPmJISqdhgB1DlEdw34sROf6V8mZw0xfqT6PKE46LcFefzs0kbg4GORf8vjG2 Sf1tk5eU8MBiyN/bZ03bKNjNYMpODDQQwuP84kYLkX2wBxxMAhBxwbDVZudzxDZJ1C2VXujC OJVxq2kljBM9ETYuUGqd75AW2LXrLw6+MuIsHFAYAgRr7+KcwDgBAfwhPBYX34nSSiHlmLC+ KaHLeCLF5ZI2vKm3HEeCTtlOg7xZEONgwzL+fdKo+D6SoC8RRxJKs8a3sVfI4t6CnrQzvJbB n6gxdgCu5i29J1QCYrCYvql2UyFPAK+do99/1jOXT4m2836j1wARAQABzSBQYXVsIEVnZ2Vy dCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1PsLBfgQTAQIAKAUCTIByZAIbAwUJEswDAAYLCQgHAwIG FQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjRRGw/+Ij03dhYfYl/gXVRiuzV1gGrbHk+t nfrI/C7fAeoFzQ5tVgVinShaPkZo0HTPf18x6IDEdAiO8Mqo1yp0CtHmzGMCJ50o4Grgfjlr 6g/+vtEOKbhleszN2XpJvpwM2QgGvn/laTLUu8PH9aRWTs7qJJZKKKAb4sxYc92FehPu6FOD 0dDiyhlDAq4lOV2mdBpzQbiojoZzQLMQwjpgCTK2572eK9EOEQySUThXrSIz6ASenp4NYTFH s9tuJQvXk9gZDdPSl3bp+47dGxlxEWLpBIM7zIONw4ks4azgT8nvDZxA5IZHtvqBlJLBObYY 0Le61Wp0y3TlBDh2qdK8eYL426W4scEMSuig5gb8OAtQiBW6k2sGUxxeiv8ovWu8YAZgKJfu oWI+uRnMEddruY8JsoM54KaKvZikkKs2bg1ndtLVzHpJ6qFZC7QVjeHUh6/BmgvdjWPZYFTt N+KA9CWX3GQKKgN3uu988yznD7LnB98T4EUH1HA/GnfBqMV1gpzTvPc4qVQinCmIkEFp83zl +G5fCjJJ3W7ivzCnYo4KhKLpFUm97okTKR2LW3xZzEW4cLSWO387MTK3CzDOx5qe6s4a91Zu ZM/j/TQdTLDaqNn83kA4Hq48UHXYxcIh+Nd8k/3w6lFuoK0wrOFiywjLx+0ur5jmmbecBGHc 1xdhAFHOwU0ETIByZAEQAKaF678T9wyH4wjTrV1Pz3cDEoSnV/0ZUrOT37p1dcGyj/IXq1x6 70HRVahAmk0sZpYc25PF9D5GPYHFWlNjuPU96rDndXB3hedmBRhLdC4bAXjI4DV+bmdVe+q/ IMnlZRaVlm9EiMCVAR6w13sReu7qXkW9r3RwY2AzXskp/tAe4BRKr1Zmbvi2nbnQ6epEC42r Rbx0B1EhjbIQZ5JHGk24iPT7LdBgnNmos5wYjzwNlkMQD5T0Ydzhk7J+UxwA5m46mOhRDC2r FV/A0gm5TLy8DXjv/Esc4gYnYai6SQqnUEVh5LuV8YCJBnijs+Tiw71x1icmn6xGI45EugJO gec+rLypYgpVp4x0HI5T88qBRYCkxH3Kg8Qo+EWNA9A4LRQ9DX8njona0gf0s03tocK8kBN6 6UoqqPtHBnc4eMgBymCflK12eKfd2YYxnyg9cZazWA5VslvTxpm76hbg5oiAEH/Vg/8MxHyA nPhfrgwyPrmJEcVBafdspJnYQxBYNco2LFPIhlOvWh8r4at+s+M3Lb26oUTczlgdW1Sf3SDA 77BMRnF0FQyE+7AzV79MBN4ykiqaezQxtaF1Fy/tvkhffSo8u+dwG0EgJh+te38gTcISVr0G IPplLz6YhjrbHrPRF1CN5UuL9DBGjxuN35RLNVEfta6RUFlR6NctTjvrABEBAAHCwWUEGAEC AA8FAkyAcmQCGwwFCRLMAwAACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjSrHA/+KzAKvTxRhA9MWNLxIyJ7S5uJ16gs T3oCjZrBKGEhKMOGX4O0GA6VOEryO7QRCCYah3oxSG38IAnNeiwJXgU9Bzkk85UGbPEd7HGF /VSeHCQwWou6jqUDTSDvn9YhNTdG0KXPM74aC+xr2Zow1O2mhXihgWKD0Dw+0LYPnUOsQ0KO FxHXXYHmRrS1OZPU59BLvc+TRhIhafSHKLwbXK+6ckkxBx6h8z5ccpG0Qs4bFhdFYnFrEieD LoGmnE2YLhdV6swJ9VNCS6pLiEohT3fm7aXm15tZOIyzMZhHRSAPblXxQ0ZSWjq8oRrcYNFx c4W1URpAkBCOYJoXvQfD5L3lqAl8TCqDUzYxhH/tJhbDdHrqHH767jaDaTB1+Talp/2AMKwc XNOdiklGxbmHVG6YGl6g8Lrbsu9NZEI4yLlHzuikthJWgz+3vZhVGyNlt+HNIoF6CjDL2omu 5cEq4RDHM44QqPk6l7O0pUvN1mT4B+S1b08RKpqm/ff015E37HNV/piIvJlxGAYz8PSfuGCB 1thMYqlmgdhd9/BabGFbGGYHA6U4/T5zqU+f6xHy1SsAQZ1MSKlLwekBIT+4/cLRGqCHjnV0 q5H/T6a7t5mPkbzSrOLSo4puj+IToNjYyYIDBWzhlA19avOa+rvUjmHtD3sFN7cXWtkGoi8b uNcby4U= Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <9010057b-aa05-9074-49f1-aeab26cfc7cb@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 07:08:56 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <836033gf7d.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: eli@barzilay.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii wrote: > if we want this change backported to Emacs 26.2, we can do that now. Phillip prefers that, and I do too. Any objections? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jun 01 10:14:32 2018 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jun 2018 14:14:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58101 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fOkp2-0001PA-LA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 10:14:32 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:47089) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fOkp1-0001Oq-Ax for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 10:14:27 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fOkov-0002Iw-BR for 20484@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 10:14:22 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:54518) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fOkop-0002Du-9E; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 10:14:15 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4658 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1fOkoo-0002WB-8l; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 10:14:15 -0400 Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 17:14:12 +0300 Message-Id: <837enifvbf.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Paul Eggert In-reply-to: <9010057b-aa05-9074-49f1-aeab26cfc7cb@cs.ucla.edu> (message from Paul Eggert on Fri, 1 Jun 2018 07:08:56 -0700) Subject: Re: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <85133880-5ae1-223a-50e6-4646adbf8052@cs.ucla.edu> <831sdyanny.fsf@gnu.org> <87muwf4jq2.fsf@russet.org.uk> <4ce6b85e-d600-872d-2a78-d9203d8c8259@cs.ucla.edu> <836033gf7d.fsf@gnu.org> <9010057b-aa05-9074-49f1-aeab26cfc7cb@cs.ucla.edu> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: eli@barzilay.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > Cc: eli@barzilay.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, > phillip.lord@russet.org.uk, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca > From: Paul Eggert > Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 07:08:56 -0700 > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > if we want this change backported to Emacs 26.2, we can do that now. > > Phillip prefers that, and I do too. Any objections? Not from me. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jun 14 16:54:21 2018 Received: (at 20484) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jun 2018 20:54:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48581 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fTZG8-0003n9-Vh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2018 16:54:21 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:39916) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fTZG5-0003mp-Iu; Thu, 14 Jun 2018 16:54:18 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72D511605B7; Thu, 14 Jun 2018 13:54:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id Zq-GRcJzmTff; Thu, 14 Jun 2018 13:54:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B34BE160980; Thu, 14 Jun 2018 13:54:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id Y0UhjalAlX3T; Thu, 14 Jun 2018 13:54:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 91F0C1605B7; Thu, 14 Jun 2018 13:54:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness To: Eli Zaretskii References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <85133880-5ae1-223a-50e6-4646adbf8052@cs.ucla.edu> <831sdyanny.fsf@gnu.org> <87muwf4jq2.fsf@russet.org.uk> <4ce6b85e-d600-872d-2a78-d9203d8c8259@cs.ucla.edu> <836033gf7d.fsf@gnu.org> <9010057b-aa05-9074-49f1-aeab26cfc7cb@cs.ucla.edu> <837enifvbf.fsf@gnu.org> From: Paul Eggert Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=eggert@cs.ucla.edu; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBEyAcmQBEADAAyH2xoTu7ppG5D3a8FMZEon74dCvc4+q1XA2J2tBy2pwaTqfhpxxdGA9 Jj50UJ3PD4bSUEgN8tLZ0san47l5XTAFLi2456ciSl5m8sKaHlGdt9XmAAtmXqeZVIYX/UFS 96fDzf4xhEmm/y7LbYEPQdUdxu47xA5KhTYp5bltF3WYDz1Ygd7gx07Auwp7iw7eNvnoDTAl KAl8KYDZzbDNCQGEbpY3efZIvPdeI+FWQN4W+kghy+P6au6PrIIhYraeua7XDdb2LS1en3Ss mE3QjqfRqI/A2ue8JMwsvXe/WK38Ezs6x74iTaqI3AFH6ilAhDqpMnd/msSESNFt76DiO1ZK QMr9amVPknjfPmJISqdhgB1DlEdw34sROf6V8mZw0xfqT6PKE46LcFefzs0kbg4GORf8vjG2 Sf1tk5eU8MBiyN/bZ03bKNjNYMpODDQQwuP84kYLkX2wBxxMAhBxwbDVZudzxDZJ1C2VXujC OJVxq2kljBM9ETYuUGqd75AW2LXrLw6+MuIsHFAYAgRr7+KcwDgBAfwhPBYX34nSSiHlmLC+ KaHLeCLF5ZI2vKm3HEeCTtlOg7xZEONgwzL+fdKo+D6SoC8RRxJKs8a3sVfI4t6CnrQzvJbB n6gxdgCu5i29J1QCYrCYvql2UyFPAK+do99/1jOXT4m2836j1wARAQABzSBQYXVsIEVnZ2Vy dCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1PsLBfgQTAQIAKAUCTIByZAIbAwUJEswDAAYLCQgHAwIG FQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjRRGw/+Ij03dhYfYl/gXVRiuzV1gGrbHk+t nfrI/C7fAeoFzQ5tVgVinShaPkZo0HTPf18x6IDEdAiO8Mqo1yp0CtHmzGMCJ50o4Grgfjlr 6g/+vtEOKbhleszN2XpJvpwM2QgGvn/laTLUu8PH9aRWTs7qJJZKKKAb4sxYc92FehPu6FOD 0dDiyhlDAq4lOV2mdBpzQbiojoZzQLMQwjpgCTK2572eK9EOEQySUThXrSIz6ASenp4NYTFH s9tuJQvXk9gZDdPSl3bp+47dGxlxEWLpBIM7zIONw4ks4azgT8nvDZxA5IZHtvqBlJLBObYY 0Le61Wp0y3TlBDh2qdK8eYL426W4scEMSuig5gb8OAtQiBW6k2sGUxxeiv8ovWu8YAZgKJfu oWI+uRnMEddruY8JsoM54KaKvZikkKs2bg1ndtLVzHpJ6qFZC7QVjeHUh6/BmgvdjWPZYFTt N+KA9CWX3GQKKgN3uu988yznD7LnB98T4EUH1HA/GnfBqMV1gpzTvPc4qVQinCmIkEFp83zl +G5fCjJJ3W7ivzCnYo4KhKLpFUm97okTKR2LW3xZzEW4cLSWO387MTK3CzDOx5qe6s4a91Zu ZM/j/TQdTLDaqNn83kA4Hq48UHXYxcIh+Nd8k/3w6lFuoK0wrOFiywjLx+0ur5jmmbecBGHc 1xdhAFHOwU0ETIByZAEQAKaF678T9wyH4wjTrV1Pz3cDEoSnV/0ZUrOT37p1dcGyj/IXq1x6 70HRVahAmk0sZpYc25PF9D5GPYHFWlNjuPU96rDndXB3hedmBRhLdC4bAXjI4DV+bmdVe+q/ IMnlZRaVlm9EiMCVAR6w13sReu7qXkW9r3RwY2AzXskp/tAe4BRKr1Zmbvi2nbnQ6epEC42r Rbx0B1EhjbIQZ5JHGk24iPT7LdBgnNmos5wYjzwNlkMQD5T0Ydzhk7J+UxwA5m46mOhRDC2r FV/A0gm5TLy8DXjv/Esc4gYnYai6SQqnUEVh5LuV8YCJBnijs+Tiw71x1icmn6xGI45EugJO gec+rLypYgpVp4x0HI5T88qBRYCkxH3Kg8Qo+EWNA9A4LRQ9DX8njona0gf0s03tocK8kBN6 6UoqqPtHBnc4eMgBymCflK12eKfd2YYxnyg9cZazWA5VslvTxpm76hbg5oiAEH/Vg/8MxHyA nPhfrgwyPrmJEcVBafdspJnYQxBYNco2LFPIhlOvWh8r4at+s+M3Lb26oUTczlgdW1Sf3SDA 77BMRnF0FQyE+7AzV79MBN4ykiqaezQxtaF1Fy/tvkhffSo8u+dwG0EgJh+te38gTcISVr0G IPplLz6YhjrbHrPRF1CN5UuL9DBGjxuN35RLNVEfta6RUFlR6NctTjvrABEBAAHCwWUEGAEC AA8FAkyAcmQCGwwFCRLMAwAACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjSrHA/+KzAKvTxRhA9MWNLxIyJ7S5uJ16gs T3oCjZrBKGEhKMOGX4O0GA6VOEryO7QRCCYah3oxSG38IAnNeiwJXgU9Bzkk85UGbPEd7HGF /VSeHCQwWou6jqUDTSDvn9YhNTdG0KXPM74aC+xr2Zow1O2mhXihgWKD0Dw+0LYPnUOsQ0KO FxHXXYHmRrS1OZPU59BLvc+TRhIhafSHKLwbXK+6ckkxBx6h8z5ccpG0Qs4bFhdFYnFrEieD LoGmnE2YLhdV6swJ9VNCS6pLiEohT3fm7aXm15tZOIyzMZhHRSAPblXxQ0ZSWjq8oRrcYNFx c4W1URpAkBCOYJoXvQfD5L3lqAl8TCqDUzYxhH/tJhbDdHrqHH767jaDaTB1+Talp/2AMKwc XNOdiklGxbmHVG6YGl6g8Lrbsu9NZEI4yLlHzuikthJWgz+3vZhVGyNlt+HNIoF6CjDL2omu 5cEq4RDHM44QqPk6l7O0pUvN1mT4B+S1b08RKpqm/ff015E37HNV/piIvJlxGAYz8PSfuGCB 1thMYqlmgdhd9/BabGFbGGYHA6U4/T5zqU+f6xHy1SsAQZ1MSKlLwekBIT+4/cLRGqCHjnV0 q5H/T6a7t5mPkbzSrOLSo4puj+IToNjYyYIDBWzhlA19avOa+rvUjmHtD3sFN7cXWtkGoi8b uNcby4U= Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2018 13:54:10 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <837enifvbf.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20484 Cc: eli@barzilay.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On 06/01/2018 07:14 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>> if we want this change backported to Emacs 26.2, we can do that now. >> Phillip prefers that, and I do too. Any objections? > Not from me. > > Thanks. You're welcome. I installed that patch into the emacs-26 branch. From unknown Sun Jun 22 22:44:51 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 11:24:06 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator