From unknown Mon Aug 18 18:00:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20466: 25.0.50; REGRESSION in `isearch-mode-map': is not translated to DEL Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 05:21:04 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 20466 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 20466@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.143037121526866 (code B ref -1); Thu, 30 Apr 2015 05:21:04 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2015 05:20:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56833 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YngtP-0006zC-2V for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 01:20:14 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:34762) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YngtI-0006yb-Eq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 01:20:06 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YngtC-0007Ag-3K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 01:19:59 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:44835) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YngtC-0007Ac-0L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 01:19:58 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:48258) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YngtA-00069n-RZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 01:19:57 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yngt5-00079V-RM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 01:19:56 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:39683) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yngt5-00079P-La for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 01:19:51 -0400 Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id t3U5JnCU012724 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 05:19:50 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t3U5JnLd029384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 05:19:49 GMT Received: from abhmp0006.oracle.com (abhmp0006.oracle.com [141.146.116.12]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t3U5JnDN011531 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 05:19:49 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 22:19:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) This regression was apparently introduced in Emacs 24.4. (define-key isearch-mode-map (kbd "DEL")=20 (lambda () (interactive) (message "@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@"))) During Isearch, hit the Backspace key. `DEL' is not used, so the message is not seen. `isearch-mode-map' shows that `DEL' is correctly bound to the above command, but `' is bound to `isearch-delete-char'. It is not translated to `DEL', as is the case in Emacs generally (still), but it instead now has its own explicit binding in `isearch-mode-map'. Why? This is an unexpected (and unnecessary?) obstacle for users. It is an incompatible change, and I see nothing in NEWS about it. Was it an oversight or intentional? In Emacs prior to 24.4, the message is shown, and `isearch-mode-map' shows that `DEL' is bound to the above command and there is no binding for `'. Because there is no binding for it, it gets translated to `DEL' (as is true in Emacs generally, even in 24.4+). In GNU Emacs 25.0.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2014-10-20 on LEG570 Bzr revision: 118168 rgm@gnu.org-20141020195941-icp42t8ttcnud09g Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --enable-checking=3Dyes,glyphs CPPFLAGS=3D-DGLYPH_DEBUG=3D1' From unknown Mon Aug 18 18:00:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20466: 25.0.50; REGRESSION in `isearch-mode-map': is not translated to DEL Resent-From: Artur Malabarba Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 09:31:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20466 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 20466@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: bruce.connor.am@gmail.com Received: via spool by 20466-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20466.143038622023783 (code B ref 20466); Thu, 30 Apr 2015 09:31:02 +0000 Received: (at 20466) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2015 09:30:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56929 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YnknT-0006B7-8S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 05:30:20 -0400 Received: from mail-lb0-f173.google.com ([209.85.217.173]:34452) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YnknP-0006Ag-Lz for 20466@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 05:30:16 -0400 Received: by lbcga7 with SMTP id ga7so39942494lbc.1 for <20466@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 02:30:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Euc1Mw4JI1/m1dv/Yl4ZIZqPzFVW7VTQ2vRGOyu/kmQ=; b=VaDNkoGJPAXxDyVH+qrz5gcp5xoX4gggH3WZLsordCsu1Nt8ZOPZCq8A5rH8xFhCmE xJqWSIBoZM4PmNSLKv7ONyqYitxSkInuDBM5P+W5UCA5IFFtDY2EixdkAU/c+SWmrGMW 2kVC/tE4OVOSOg1k2yAoAAA/Eg82lUuV5H4RJ5LzvdgIxG6YVI96jbpGahA/p9v15ICS KWsWQdY6DDSf4g6lbfJw6XxWF4dIQ9vSVhKDhvxbrELjBIhXc+JuUxH9PY1bHHRO6mhE zA+qGuagLJ4Wij327C8TRQxsegI1z2B9xtnm4lV94fwHx5MElIk6r+t/+SN69NDclu4E F9lQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.222.133 with SMTP id qm5mr3020581lbc.86.1430386209413; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 02:30:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.25.150.1 with HTTP; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 02:30:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 10:30:09 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 3H0yRuEVhbOS0j892CQabW0BUU4 Message-ID: From: Artur Malabarba Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Looking at the commit message for that change, it points at this bug report: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=16342 It looks valid to me. Isearch doesn't know where it's being run so it needs to ensure backspace is bound to the right key. I suppose it could do some keybind checking and only bind backspace if it wouldn't already be translated to DEL, but then this reported issue would still happen on these cases (and it would be even harder for the user to figure out because it would only happen on some buffers). 2015-04-30 6:19 GMT+01:00 Drew Adams : > This regression was apparently introduced in Emacs 24.4. > > (define-key isearch-mode-map (kbd "DEL") > (lambda () (interactive) (message "@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@"))) > > During Isearch, hit the Backspace key. `DEL' is not used, so the > message is not seen. `isearch-mode-map' shows that `DEL' is correctly > bound to the above command, but `' is bound to > `isearch-delete-char'. It is not translated to `DEL', as is the case in > Emacs generally (still), but it instead now has its own explicit binding > in `isearch-mode-map'. > > Why? This is an unexpected (and unnecessary?) obstacle for users. > It is an incompatible change, and I see nothing in NEWS about it. > Was it an oversight or intentional? > > In Emacs prior to 24.4, the message is shown, and `isearch-mode-map' > shows that `DEL' is bound to the above command and there is no binding > for `'. Because there is no binding for it, it gets > translated to `DEL' (as is true in Emacs generally, even in 24.4+). > > In GNU Emacs 25.0.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) > of 2014-10-20 on LEG570 > Bzr revision: 118168 rgm@gnu.org-20141020195941-icp42t8ttcnud09g > Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 > Configured using: > `configure --enable-checking=yes,glyphs CPPFLAGS=-DGLYPH_DEBUG=1' > > > From unknown Mon Aug 18 18:00:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20466: 25.0.50; REGRESSION in `isearch-mode-map': is not translated to DEL Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 13:57:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20466 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 20466@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 20466-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20466.143040216323131 (code B ref 20466); Thu, 30 Apr 2015 13:57:03 +0000 Received: (at 20466) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2015 13:56:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57654 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Ynowc-00060p-0Y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 09:56:02 -0400 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:64461) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YnowY-0005zg-BY for 20466@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 09:56:00 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NNM00100H63UI00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 20466@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 16:55:49 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NNM001ZHHD1RV20@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 16:55:49 +0300 (IDT) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 16:55:48 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <83383hu3dn.fsf@gnu.org> References: X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 22:19:48 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > > This regression was apparently introduced in Emacs 24.4. > > (define-key isearch-mode-map (kbd "DEL") > (lambda () (interactive) (message "@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@"))) > > During Isearch, hit the Backspace key. `DEL' is not used, so the > message is not seen. `isearch-mode-map' shows that `DEL' is correctly > bound to the above command, but `' is bound to > `isearch-delete-char'. It is not translated to `DEL', as is the case in > Emacs generally (still), but it instead now has its own explicit binding > in `isearch-mode-map'. > > Why? This is an unexpected (and unnecessary?) obstacle for users. The "why" part was answered by Artur, who pointed to the bug report which triggered that change. > It is an incompatible change, and I see nothing in NEWS about it. It's not really incompatible, but I agree that it would be good to document the change, although I don't believe we document changes in keybindings in general. May I ask what kind of real-life use case is behind this? I learned long ago that if you want to change the binding of DEL, you had better changed the binding of Backspace accordingly at the same time, because there's no guarantee Backspace will not be bound in any particular mode. So why you are showing a use case that violates this simple rule? From unknown Mon Aug 18 18:00:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20466: 25.0.50; REGRESSION in `isearch-mode-map': is not translated to DEL Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 14:12:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20466 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 20466@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 20466-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20466.143040307430071 (code B ref 20466); Thu, 30 Apr 2015 14:12:01 +0000 Received: (at 20466) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2015 14:11:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57669 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YnpBH-0007ov-Ep for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 10:11:12 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:37726) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YnpBD-0007oT-QE for 20466@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 10:11:09 -0400 Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id t3UEB1Vo005800 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Apr 2015 14:11:01 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t3UEB1JR024559 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Apr 2015 14:11:01 GMT Received: from abhmp0006.oracle.com (abhmp0006.oracle.com [141.146.116.12]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t3UEB0Ye006957; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 14:11:00 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 07:11:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams References: <> <<83383hu3dn.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83383hu3dn.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > The "why" part was answered by Artur, who pointed to the bug report > which triggered that change. That reports a problem. It doesn't imply that the chosen fix is the best fix. > > It is an incompatible change, and I see nothing in NEWS about it. >=20 > It's not really incompatible, but I agree that it would be good to > document the change, although I don't believe we document changes in > keybindings in general. > if you want to change the binding of DEL, you had better changed > the binding of Backspace accordingly at the same time, because > there's no guarantee Backspace will not be bound in any particular > mode. So why you are showing a use case that violates this simple > rule? That's certainly a useful rule for users to keep in mind, and it applies to all key translations. But it has not been necessary in the past to take it into account for Isearch. That's all. Dunno whether such a rule/reminder is mentioned in the Emacs docs, or even where it should be mentioned (key translations are not something that most users read about). Even if it were mentioned in the doc about key translations, I doubt that would help most users who might stumble on this. Think of the many users who have asked about shifted keys (a similar translation gotcha). FWIW: I don't mind this change, personally (I don't bind `DEL' in `isearch-mode-map'). I'm just pointing out that it might not be expected, and that some users will likely scratch their heads trying to figure out what's going on. What the best thing to do about it is now (maybe nothing?), I don't know. From unknown Mon Aug 18 18:00:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20466: 25.0.50; REGRESSION in `isearch-mode-map': is not translated to DEL Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 23:13:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20466 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 20466@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams Received: via spool by 20466-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20466.143043553632154 (code B ref 20466); Thu, 30 Apr 2015 23:13:02 +0000 Received: (at 20466) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2015 23:12:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57869 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Ynxct-0008MY-J7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 19:12:16 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:30008) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Ynxcr-0008MJ-4p for 20466@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 19:12:13 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AnEFAGvvdVS4rw4V/2dsb2JhbAA3gVOfQYIugQiBdQEBBAFWIwULCzQSFBgNJIgTohGLdgoMHkMDA4M+AwODbQSjY4RY X-IPAS-Result: AnEFAGvvdVS4rw4V/2dsb2JhbAA3gVOfQYIugQiBdQEBBAFWIwULCzQSFBgNJIgTohGLdgoMHkMDA4M+AwODbQSjY4RY X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.11,557,1422939600"; d="scan'208";a="117939080" Received: from 184-175-14-21.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO fmsmemgm.homelinux.net) ([184.175.14.21]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 30 Apr 2015 19:12:07 -0400 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 88653AE0BD; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 19:12:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <83383hu3dn.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 19:12:07 -0400 In-Reply-To: <83383hu3dn.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 30 Apr 2015 16:55:48 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) > The "why" part was answered by Artur, who pointed to the bug report > which triggered that change. [...] > I learned long ago that if you want to change the binding of DEL, you > had better changed the binding of Backspace accordingly at the same time, I strongly disagree here: following this kind of rule is what caused the problem in the first place. What you're basically saying is that we should give up on the function-key-map binding which remaps `backspace' to DEL. Clearly, this bug report shows that this remapping is harder to handle right in the case of isearch-mode-map. I think The Right Way to handle it is to bind (in isearch-mode-map) `backspace' to `undefined' (so it hides bindings in lower-precedence maps, but still lets the function-key-map remapping take place). Stefan From unknown Mon Aug 18 18:00:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20466: 25.0.50; REGRESSION in `isearch-mode-map': is not translated to DEL Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 06:32:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20466 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 20466@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 20466-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20466.143046187125961 (code B ref 20466); Fri, 01 May 2015 06:32:03 +0000 Received: (at 20466) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2015 06:31:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58056 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Yo4Te-0006ke-EO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 02:31:10 -0400 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:36817) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Yo4TZ-0006k4-QN for 20466@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 02:31:07 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NNN00800RE3LO00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 20466@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 09:30:59 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NNN0089FRFM85A0@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Fri, 01 May 2015 09:30:58 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 09:30:59 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <83lhh8stb0.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83383hu3dn.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: Drew Adams , 20466@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 19:12:07 -0400 > > > The "why" part was answered by Artur, who pointed to the bug report > > which triggered that change. > [...] > > I learned long ago that if you want to change the binding of DEL, you > > had better changed the binding of Backspace accordingly at the same time, > > I strongly disagree here: following this kind of rule is what caused the > problem in the first place. No, following the rule would have prevented it. The user in question didn't customize both keys, he customized only DEL. > What you're basically saying is that we should give up on the > function-key-map binding which remaps `backspace' to DEL. No, I'm saying it's unreliable, in the sense that a user who wants to customize DEL cannot rely on Backspace continue doing what DEL does. We use stuff like function-key-map so that keys do what users expect, but only by default. Once users start customizing keys, they cannot expect Backspace to always behave like DEL, not with the function-key-map method, which gives an explicit rebinding priority (as it must). The root problem underlying this is that some keyboards have only DEL, some have only Backspace, and some have both. If we want both keys to always behave the same, we should treat them as the same key, all the time. I doubt if we want to do that, which leaves us with this dilemma that doesn't have a 100% reliable solution. > Clearly, this bug report shows that this remapping is harder to handle > right in the case of isearch-mode-map. > > I think The Right Way to handle it is to bind (in isearch-mode-map) > `backspace' to `undefined' (so it hides bindings in lower-precedence > maps, but still lets the function-key-map remapping take place). Whatever you do, my rule will always yield more reliable results. From unknown Mon Aug 18 18:00:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20466: 25.0.50; REGRESSION in `isearch-mode-map': is not translated to DEL Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 18:04:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20466 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 20466@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com Received: via spool by 20466-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20466.143050343519244 (code B ref 20466); Fri, 01 May 2015 18:04:02 +0000 Received: (at 20466) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2015 18:03:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58920 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YoFI2-00050K-F9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 14:03:54 -0400 Received: from mercure.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.24.67]:42938) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YoFI0-00050C-Do for 20466@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 14:03:53 -0400 Received: from hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca (hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.50]) by mercure.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31DAC85F54; Fri, 1 May 2015 14:03:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lechon.iro.umontreal.ca (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45E351E5B8D; Fri, 1 May 2015 14:03:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by lechon.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 20605B40E9; Fri, 1 May 2015 14:03:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <83383hu3dn.fsf@gnu.org> <83lhh8stb0.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 14:03:26 -0400 In-Reply-To: <83lhh8stb0.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 01 May 2015 09:30:59 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-DIRO-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-DIRO-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-DIRO-MailScanner-SpamCheck: n'est pas un polluriel, SpamAssassin (score=-2.82, requis 5, autolearn=not spam, ALL_TRUSTED -2.82, MC_TSTLAST 0.00) X-DIRO-MailScanner-From: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) >> What you're basically saying is that we should give up on the >> function-key-map binding which remaps `backspace' to DEL. > No, I'm saying it's unreliable, in the sense that a user who wants to > customize DEL cannot rely on Backspace continue doing what DEL does. Exactly: you're saying "it's unreliable, so just forget about ti and always bind both keys". And if both keys are bound in foo-map, then both keys also need to be bound in any other bar-map if the two ever happen to be active at the same time, so whoever follows your advice will force other people to follow it as well. The end result is that will always be bound and the function-key-map binding will be useless. > We use stuff like function-key-map so that keys do what users expect, > but only by default. Once users start customizing keys, they cannot > expect Backspace to always behave like DEL, not with the > function-key-map method, which gives an explicit rebinding priority > (as it must). That's right. But binding both and DEL should only ever be needed if you want to distinguish those two cases. The purpose of the function-key-map binding is to make sure that if you want the same behavior for both, then you only need one binding (the one on DEL). IOW for the function-key-map to be meaningful, we want to consider any case where the user needs a redundant binding, as a bug/misfeature that we should try to fix. > time. I doubt if we want to do that, which leaves us with this > dilemma that doesn't have a 100% reliable solution. So far, we're pretty close to 100%, and I'd rather we try stay close to that. > Whatever you do, my rule will always yield more reliable results. And will break more other cases where people have followed the path usually recommended (i.e. "only bind the DEL or TAB event unless you want to distinguish the two"). Stefan From unknown Mon Aug 18 18:00:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20466: 25.0.50; REGRESSION in `isearch-mode-map': is not translated to DEL Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 18:44:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20466 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 20466@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 20466-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20466.143050583223127 (code B ref 20466); Fri, 01 May 2015 18:44:02 +0000 Received: (at 20466) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2015 18:43:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58937 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YoFuh-00060x-Lf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 14:43:52 -0400 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:37966) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YoFue-00060g-K4 for 20466@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 14:43:49 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NNO00D00P1QQM00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 20466@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 21:43:42 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NNO00DU5PCTCK80@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Fri, 01 May 2015 21:43:42 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 21:43:26 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <83mw1oqgtt.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83383hu3dn.fsf@gnu.org> <83lhh8stb0.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: drew.adams@oracle.com, 20466@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 14:03:26 -0400 > > >> What you're basically saying is that we should give up on the > >> function-key-map binding which remaps `backspace' to DEL. > > No, I'm saying it's unreliable, in the sense that a user who wants to > > customize DEL cannot rely on Backspace continue doing what DEL does. > > Exactly: you're saying "it's unreliable, so just forget about ti and > always bind both keys". Or don't bind either, in which case you don't need to "just forget about it". > And if both keys are bound in foo-map, then both keys also need to > be bound in any other bar-map if the two ever happen to be active at > the same time You lost me. What do you mean by "active at the same time"? > so whoever follows your advice will force other people to follow it > as well. Good advice is like that, yes. > The end result is that will always be bound and the > function-key-map binding will be useless. Not if these keys are left at their default bindings, no. > The purpose of the function-key-map binding is to make sure that if > you want the same behavior for both, then you only need one binding > (the one on DEL). Which doesn't work if the mode binds Backspace. > > Whatever you do, my rule will always yield more reliable results. > > And will break more other cases where people have followed the path > usually recommended (i.e. "only bind the DEL or TAB event unless you > want to distinguish the two"). But this is exactly what the OP did, and look where it got him. From unknown Mon Aug 18 18:00:23 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.503 (Entity 5.503) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Drew Adams Subject: bug#20466: closed (Re: bug#20466: 25.0.50; REGRESSION in `isearch-mode-map': is not translated to DEL) Message-ID: References: X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 20466 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 20466@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 21:13:03 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1430514783-5289-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1430514783-5289-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #20466: 25.0.50; REGRESSION in `isearch-mode-map': is not trans= lated to DEL which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 20466@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 20466: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D20466 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1430514783-5289-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 20466-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2015 21:12:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58979 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YoIEf-0001MJ-DC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 17:12:37 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:62309) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YoIEc-0001Lw-FR for 20466-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 17:12:35 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AnEFAGvvdVS4rw4V/2dsb2JhbAA3gVOfQYIugQiBdQEBBAFWIwULCzQSFBgNJIgTohGLdgwBCVgMA4M+A4NwBKNjhFg X-IPAS-Result: AnEFAGvvdVS4rw4V/2dsb2JhbAA3gVOfQYIugQiBdQEBBAFWIwULCzQSFBgNJIgTohGLdgwBCVgMA4M+A4NwBKNjhFg X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.11,557,1422939600"; d="scan'208";a="118040249" Received: from 184-175-14-21.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([184.175.14.21]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 01 May 2015 17:12:28 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 5E10F6ADE; Fri, 1 May 2015 17:12:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#20466: 25.0.50; REGRESSION in `isearch-mode-map': is not translated to DEL Message-ID: References: <83383hu3dn.fsf@gnu.org> <83lhh8stb0.fsf@gnu.org> <83mw1oqgtt.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 17:12:28 -0400 In-Reply-To: <83mw1oqgtt.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 01 May 2015 21:43:26 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20466-done Cc: drew.adams@oracle.com, 20466-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) I installed the proposed patch, which should fix this bug, without re-introducing the other bug. Stefan > You lost me. What do you mean by "active at the same time"? Both appear in `current-active-maps' in some buffer at some point. (e.g. one binding in a minor mode, another in a major-mode) >> so whoever follows your advice will force other people to follow it >> as well. > Good advice is like that, yes. >> The end result is that will always be bound and the >> function-key-map binding will be useless. > Not if these keys are left at their default bindings, no. That's only if noone bound anything, in which case noone followed neither's advice anyway. Not a very enlightening case. >> The purpose of the function-key-map binding is to make sure that if >> you want the same behavior for both, then you only need one binding >> (the one on DEL). > Which doesn't work if the mode binds Backspace. Which mode? And presumably if a keymap binds Backspace it's specifically because it wants backspace to behave differently from DEL, in which case it's fine if function-key-map is not used. >> > Whatever you do, my rule will always yield more reliable results. >> And will break more other cases where people have followed the path >> usually recommended (i.e. "only bind the DEL or TAB event unless you >> want to distinguish the two"). > But this is exactly what the OP did, and look where it got him. That's because the binding we used in isearch.el followed your advice rather than mine ;-) ------------=_1430514783-5289-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2015 05:20:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56833 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YngtP-0006zC-2V for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 01:20:14 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:34762) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YngtI-0006yb-Eq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 01:20:06 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YngtC-0007Ag-3K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 01:19:59 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:44835) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YngtC-0007Ac-0L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 01:19:58 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:48258) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YngtA-00069n-RZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 01:19:57 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yngt5-00079V-RM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 01:19:56 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:39683) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yngt5-00079P-La for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 01:19:51 -0400 Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id t3U5JnCU012724 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 05:19:50 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t3U5JnLd029384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 05:19:49 GMT Received: from abhmp0006.oracle.com (abhmp0006.oracle.com [141.146.116.12]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t3U5JnDN011531 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 05:19:49 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 22:19:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 25.0.50; REGRESSION in `isearch-mode-map': is not translated to DEL X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) This regression was apparently introduced in Emacs 24.4. (define-key isearch-mode-map (kbd "DEL")=20 (lambda () (interactive) (message "@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@"))) During Isearch, hit the Backspace key. `DEL' is not used, so the message is not seen. `isearch-mode-map' shows that `DEL' is correctly bound to the above command, but `' is bound to `isearch-delete-char'. It is not translated to `DEL', as is the case in Emacs generally (still), but it instead now has its own explicit binding in `isearch-mode-map'. Why? This is an unexpected (and unnecessary?) obstacle for users. It is an incompatible change, and I see nothing in NEWS about it. Was it an oversight or intentional? In Emacs prior to 24.4, the message is shown, and `isearch-mode-map' shows that `DEL' is bound to the above command and there is no binding for `'. Because there is no binding for it, it gets translated to `DEL' (as is true in Emacs generally, even in 24.4+). In GNU Emacs 25.0.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2014-10-20 on LEG570 Bzr revision: 118168 rgm@gnu.org-20141020195941-icp42t8ttcnud09g Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --enable-checking=3Dyes,glyphs CPPFLAGS=3D-DGLYPH_DEBUG=3D1' ------------=_1430514783-5289-1--