From unknown Mon Jun 23 05:58:12 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#2030 <2030@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#2030 <2030@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 23.0.60; doc string of dired-guess-shell-alist-user Reply-To: bug#2030 <2030@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2025 12:58:12 +0000 retitle 2030 23.0.60; doc string of dired-guess-shell-alist-user reassign 2030 emacs submitter 2030 "Drew Adams" severity 2030 minor tag 2030 fixed thanks From drew.adams@oracle.com Sat Jan 24 11:09:11 2009 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 24 Jan 2009 19:09:11 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=4.0 tests=none autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0OJ980E013183 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2009 11:09:09 -0800 Received: from mx10.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:43815) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1LQnqu-0000eb-P9 for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Jan 2009 14:07:33 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LQnsP-0007ce-Fg for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Jan 2009 14:09:06 -0500 Received: from rcsinet13.oracle.com ([148.87.113.125]:47464 helo=rgminet13.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LQnsP-0007cW-64 for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Jan 2009 14:09:05 -0500 Received: from acsinet13.oracle.com (acsinet13.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by rgminet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n0OJ9qZA001712 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2009 19:09:53 GMT Received: from acsmt702.oracle.com (acsmt702.oracle.com [141.146.40.80]) by acsinet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n0OJ8xxI009760 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2009 19:09:00 GMT Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.5.128.33) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 24 Jan 2009 11:08:58 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 23.0.60; doc string of dired-guess-shell-alist-user Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 11:09:08 -0800 Message-ID: <000c01c97e57$3c19ad20$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acl+Vzt5sorHn0ySSVa+OsQrXNsmzA== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Source-IP: acsmt702.oracle.com [141.146.40.80] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090205.497B674C.00F7:SCFSTAT928724,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) The doc string should suggest that users use Customize. It should not use a complex `setq' example as its only illustration: (setq dired-guess-shell-alist-user (list (list "\\.foo\\'" "FOO-COMMAND");; fixed rule ;; possibly more rules ... (list "\\.bar\'";; rule with condition test '(if condition "BAR-COMMAND-1" "BAR-COMMAND-2")))) This example is in any case incorrect - "\\.bar\'" should be "\\.bar\\'". If it's felt that an example of a _value_ for this option is needed, then it's OK to show that directly: (("\\.foo\\'" "foo-command") ; unconditional rule ("\\.bar\\'" ; conditional rule (if (some-sexp) "bar-command-1" "bar-command-2"))) But there is absolutely no reason to show setting the value using `setq', especially since the expression evaluated by `setq' is 100% constant. Nothing is gained by showing anything other than the result of that evaluation, that is, a possible value for the option. It might also be better to write `(some-sexp)' or similar, instead of `condition', to emphasise that even that part is code to be evaluated. The use of uppercase for the command names is also problematic - those are constants (strings). This is an example, not a template. In sum: (1) the doc string is confusing in several respects; (2) it is incorrect; (3) it is unnecessarily complex; and (4) it favors Lisp instead of Customize for a user-option example. From lekktu@gmail.com Sat Jan 24 16:35:02 2009 Received: (at control) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 25 Jan 2009 00:35:02 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.3 required=4.0 tests=MISSING_SUBJECT,NOSUBJECT, VALID_BTS_CONTROL autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from mail-ew0-f10.google.com (mail-ew0-f10.google.com [209.85.219.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0P0YwcF029661 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2009 16:35:00 -0800 Received: by ewy3 with SMTP id 3so6081989ewy.1 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2009 16:34:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=FBkUueOIR9NzNe2OcToT7uuU8oXta/0+pAXNujlBstE=; b=rxjgxocwr0Jv+ZRC3tLfNSTiSV+ydQ79u6j1cK/ke8AJ7MlSu+TQQehX24L+k37tkv e+6rP+gTyaYviUMiRughz0Mq1AbcMHbsqYSSIfmgn3Z2AV0HHd+bDUL4tGNdSP1CuaDZ B+Ltp4uqGGQwJcZttyS7HFD96AlfqQbSzxD70= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=RXCjsBhA/pu2ws5j/qX1TysC3biITeuObxgQmKkGhQzZ6vyPiHeL+HHJQt21a4Qjbw REHz1tjHP6Anid8PDBeYDyuDKAJrV8suyt7ac0lIyb1HKpi7zh97e49fkXQoFSeXanrA YDP4wv7gQvSVnKPTThzFs+L/QFOZvUfOIBDCI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.210.109.10 with SMTP id h10mr229357ebc.178.1232843692923; Sat, 24 Jan 2009 16:34:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 01:34:52 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: From: Juanma Barranquero To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit reassign 2032 spam reassign 2030 emacs,documentation reassign 2031 emacs,gnus quit From rgm@gnu.org Wed Feb 25 00:46:52 2009 Received: (at control) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 25 Feb 2009 08:46:53 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=4.0 tests=VALID_BTS_CONTROL autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n1P8kohG000430 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:46:51 -0800 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1LcFNa-0005tS-5e; Wed, 25 Feb 2009 03:44:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <18853.1265.990432.936530@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 03:44:33 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: control Subject: control message tags 2163 moreinfo unreproducible severity 2136 minor reassign 2136 emacs,ms-dos severity 2030 minor severity 2035 minor severity 2028 minor reassign 2466 spam severity 2257 minor severity 1193 minor From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 11 09:49:12 2011 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jul 2011 13:49:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QgGrI-00073P-4J for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 09:49:12 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QgGrF-00073D-8j for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 09:49:10 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=quimbies.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QgGr3-0000lZ-EK for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 15:48:57 +0200 Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 15:48:56 +0200 Message-Id: To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #2030 X-MailScanner-ID: 1QgGr3-0000lZ-EK X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1310996937.90057@ih1SEsK1/IS0oCBd+L/HxA X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) tags 2030 fixed close 2030 24.1 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 11 09:58:13 2011 Received: (at 2030) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jul 2011 13:58:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QgH00-0007S0-Qg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 09:58:13 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QgGzv-0007RP-Pb for 2030@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 09:58:09 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=quimbies.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QgGzk-00010o-Ic; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 15:57:56 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: 23.0.60; doc string of dired-guess-shell-alist-user In-Reply-To: <000c01c97e57$3c19ad20$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 24 Jan 2009 11:09:08 -0800") Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 15:48:52 +0200 Message-ID: References: <000c01c97e57$3c19ad20$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Now-Playing: Wire's _Red Barked Tree_: "Please Take" X-Hashcash: 1:23:110711:drew.adams@oracle.com::ZmWe4k10kSG1hq1N:00000000000000000000000000000000000000000L2w X-Hashcash: 1:23:110711:2030@debbugs.gnu.org::ISAHXqbJbzseaBIg:00000000000000000000000000000000000000000p8N5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1QgGzk-00010o-Ic X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1310997476.6807@hYnIjHR7wN1Gn41LysyZIQ X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 2030 Cc: 2030@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) "Drew Adams" writes: > The doc string should suggest that users use Customize. It should not > use a complex `setq' example as its only illustration: > > (setq dired-guess-shell-alist-user > (list (list "\\.foo\\'" "FOO-COMMAND");; fixed rule > ;; possibly more rules ... > (list "\\.bar\'";; rule with condition test > '(if condition > "BAR-COMMAND-1" > "BAR-COMMAND-2")))) I think complicated variables are best served with non-Customize examples. I've rewritten it to use a quote instead of all the `list' operations, which should make it clearer. > This example is in any case incorrect - "\\.bar\'" should be "\\.bar\\'". This was apparently fixed already. > If it's felt that an example of a _value_ for this option is needed, > then it's OK to show that directly: > > (("\\.foo\\'" "foo-command") ; unconditional rule > ("\\.bar\\'" ; conditional rule > (if (some-sexp) "bar-command-1" "bar-command-2"))) > > But there is absolutely no reason to show setting the value using > `setq', especially since the expression evaluated by `setq' is 100% > constant. I disagree. A complete `setq' is convenient to cut and paste. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 11 11:19:59 2011 Received: (at 2030) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jul 2011 15:19:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QgIH9-000687-Ad for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 11:19:59 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QgIH7-00067m-3q for 2030@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 11:19:57 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p6BFJnY1017204 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 11 Jul 2011 15:19:50 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p6BFJmgO018307 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 11 Jul 2011 15:19:48 GMT Received: from abhmt115.oracle.com (abhmt115.oracle.com [141.146.116.67]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p6BFJhoN003177; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 10:19:43 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 08:19:42 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen'" References: <000c01c97e57$3c19ad20$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: 23.0.60; doc string of dired-guess-shell-alist-user Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 08:19:42 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Acw/0pJ5hUU5KIuWQeeFlaAB/IRwzwACVzZQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090202.4E1B1497.0014:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 2030 Cc: 2030@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) Lars, you marked this bug `fixed', but it seems that it was hardly addressed (partly addressed). Please take another look at it. > > The doc string should suggest that users use Customize. It > > should not use a complex `setq' example as its only illustration: Note: _only_. > > (setq dired-guess-shell-alist-user > > (list (list "\\.foo\\'" "FOO-COMMAND");; fixed rule > > ;; possibly more rules ... > > (list "\\.bar\'";; rule with condition test > > '(if condition > > "BAR-COMMAND-1" > > "BAR-COMMAND-2")))) > > I think complicated variables are best served with non-Customize > examples. It's OK to have a code example, if that helps make things clear. And yes, it's not obvious how to _show_ Customize in the doc. But that's not what I suggested. The "doc string should suggest that users use Customize." That's the point. It is one thing to say that _showing_ Customize in the doc is not easy and probably not worth it. It is another thing that the doc _only_ suggest to users to use `setq'. And even for a code example it would be better to use `customize-save-variable' instead of `setq'. We should generally encourage this practice, since for many user options it makes a difference: If VARIABLE has a `custom-set' property, that is used for setting VARIABLE, otherwise `set-default' is used. If VARIABLE has a `variable-interactive' property, that is used as if it were the arg to `interactive' (which see) to interactively read the value. If VARIABLE has a `custom-type' property, it must be a widget and the `:prompt-value' property of that widget will be used for reading the value. > I've rewritten it to use a quote instead of all the `list' operations, > which should make it clearer. That's fine, but it does not respond to the bug report at all - it's something else. Please suggest to users that they use Customize. It's about the users, not our ease in writing the doc and its examples. I agree that it is not easy or worthwhile to show an illustration of Customize here. But we should nevertheless suggest using Customize first, and show a code example only second, if important, as a way to code things by hand. > > If it's felt that an example of a _value_ for this option is needed, > > then it's OK to show that directly: > > > > (("\\.foo\\'" "foo-command") ; unconditional rule > > ("\\.bar\\'" ; conditional rule > > (if (some-sexp) "bar-command-1" "bar-command-2"))) > > > > But there is absolutely no reason to show setting the value using > > `setq', especially since the expression evaluated by `setq' is 100% > > constant. > > I disagree. A complete `setq' is convenient to cut and paste. That's not something we necessarily want to encourage. Customize is much to be preferred when it is appropriate. It is safer, does type-checking, etc. It's not because some of us find the Customize UI to be ugly that we should not encourage its use. What's important for the illustration is what a value looks like. I recommend that we (a) remove `setq', (2) not bother with `customize-save-variable', but (3) show the example _value_, as I wrote initially. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 11 11:21:50 2011 Received: (at 2030) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jul 2011 15:21:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QgIIw-0006CO-93 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 11:21:50 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QgIIu-0006CB-7a for 2030@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 11:21:49 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=quimbies.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QgIIi-0003LN-GJ; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 17:21:36 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: 23.0.60; doc string of dired-guess-shell-alist-user In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 11 Jul 2011 08:19:42 -0700") Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 17:21:33 +0200 Message-ID: References: <000c01c97e57$3c19ad20$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAElBMVEUqLFBsbJAaGzQIBQsL CREQDxySllpyAAACfUlEQVQ4jVWUuY7cMAyGaWXc2wG21zJmH6zkPrGo3uCI7/8q+amZBIiBOcCP 92Hy+YgPH6paWq346aUQpCbMAWqDsODTCkDvnpNngR4EDU+pNYB2N+YsHqAq5KWeb+AAw4P0iAOP 05VNIDZ0QGdMQ5gRE9+JMrOwd4lMRoBGoU5EiYXExTKt0vR5IoYzJUqAW/LQSawdURD8Ti+QIUsL viISwMWUEYS+w01meGXE8UZqnCieFWCDJ+SBTBpVt7zsCy1kDjfkF+ecAJA77ftGybgltnSgExOc YbEhW5SOjrLq0eEbFsK0bysygRNp7nV0XuhJ9c4BDM3KWQ4fpTrv2w+qNkG4ykjIvdWOor5R6UiK Vna16Mzj1FAlWPS8bxEjktsTLMqNogpVdbRJRg/5Tk/MFh1bG5V6ES0fnkO+b67FxN6AadnsDbiV a3V6AJQrAzC9gDwrWsgjgMHnP4A64GoNcGJsmeTzL9AbzVUADDrn9R18VeWMYgHqF2Oiq/MC+YK9 Q+/SAGgVE8MGcI6chv4GoEMVwd0stsdiD8b4mWD70E6qBguBXyOWoRcFiKwUS0YR0BLz6Nph+ojg sdXwIrHbSBZDJMKiwtUIHawhz4UKeRp9kOJQDKOaS4ON9xRKPiguy5cXwD50ntb2H5DwlD8XTMcP inOxABQAfzE+f4HW5yEA2GFpSTkUBirXKB0g465i6Q0pdKdaULpPi7gqtCWATothQtMiyR2n5dEm gNotSp/ndr9yq3wE8GwQxkGJsd2YktIEHQ4gwvLH+8MwrE5oSWsn1jxjUhKHfuAlUDtHjGI9jShP UZeleC2UPsEl8hXJ1No/fq0l3iTa/wCresyzG25RQAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: Swans's _My Father Will Guide Me Up A Rope To The Sky_: "Inside Madeline" X-Hashcash: 1:23:110711:drew.adams@oracle.com::bYbiT7e/3xwuEVjD:0000000000000000000000000000000000000000GVUO X-Hashcash: 1:23:110711:2030@debbugs.gnu.org::+5uwhQmqLgqsrDnZ:00000000000000000000000000000000000000000i9Hb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1QgIIi-0003LN-GJ X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1311002496.71809@nyohZ3pEywYmhOpmbjXovQ X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 2030 Cc: 2030@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) "Drew Adams" writes: > And yes, it's not obvious how to _show_ Customize in the doc. But that's not > what I suggested. The "doc string should suggest that users use Customize." > That's the point. I disagreed with that part, but fixed the part I agreed with. So I think "fixed" covers it. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From unknown Mon Jun 23 05:58:12 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug No longer marked as fixed in versions 24.1 and reopened. Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 15:22:05 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug No longer marked as fixed in versions 24.1 and reopened. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 11 12:04:15 2011 Received: (at 2030) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jul 2011 16:04:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QgIxz-0001NN-6Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 12:04:15 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QgIxx-0001N5-MH for 2030@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 12:04:14 -0400 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p6BG4639008504 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 11 Jul 2011 16:04:08 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p6BG45E0014290 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 11 Jul 2011 16:04:06 GMT Received: from abhmt102.oracle.com (abhmt102.oracle.com [141.146.116.54]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p6BG40jt011318; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 11:04:00 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 09:03:59 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen'" References: <000c01c97e57$3c19ad20$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: 23.0.60; doc string of dired-guess-shell-alist-user Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 09:03:59 -0700 Message-ID: <86BC06476E904F86B9CB1A52BF6E714F@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Acw/3kIHTJoGFq2NSB+4SEFuAwfOSAABb4Kg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090202.4E1B1EF8.0073:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 2030 Cc: 2030@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) > > And yes, it's not obvious how to _show_ Customize in the > > doc. But that's not what I suggested. The "doc string should > > suggest that users use Customize." That's the point. > > I disagreed with that part, but fixed the part I agreed with. So I > think "fixed" covers it. No, "fixed" does not cover it. The main point of the bug is to suggest Customize to users. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 16 14:35:52 2011 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jul 2011 18:35:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qi9iS-0001qs-6a for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 14:35:52 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qi9iP-0001qg-NL for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 14:35:50 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=quimbies.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qi9iF-0003KD-2j for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 20:35:39 +0200 Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 20:35:38 +0200 Message-Id: To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #2030 X-MailScanner-ID: 1Qi9iF-0003KD-2j X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1311446139.13802@hdpdJwcaqXTWRobSDVQyWg X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) close 2030 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 16 14:43:25 2011 Received: (at 2030) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jul 2011 18:43:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qi9pk-00024W-V3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 14:43:25 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qi9pi-000246-LD for 2030@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 14:43:23 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=quimbies.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qi9pW-0003QD-AX; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 20:43:10 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: 23.0.60; doc string of dired-guess-shell-alist-user In-Reply-To: <86BC06476E904F86B9CB1A52BF6E714F@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 11 Jul 2011 09:03:59 -0700") Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 20:35:31 +0200 Message-ID: References: <000c01c97e57$3c19ad20$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <86BC06476E904F86B9CB1A52BF6E714F@us.oracle.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Now-Playing: Laurie Anderson's _Home Of The Brave_: "Talk Normal" X-Hashcash: 1:23:110716:drew.adams@oracle.com::QtFJEeJyRZ6Io5js:00000000000000000000000000000000000000007jXf X-Hashcash: 1:23:110716:2030@debbugs.gnu.org::4xjZz7Nd0VPte77e:00000000000000000000000000000000000000000CakH MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1Qi9pW-0003QD-AX X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1311446590.629@pIFEvQwvObjUEaM5buQWRA X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 2030 Cc: 2030@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) "Drew Adams" writes: > No, "fixed" does not cover it. The main point of the bug is to suggest > Customize to users. For this variable, I disagree, and I'm closing this report. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 16 19:21:59 2011 Received: (at 2030) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jul 2011 23:21:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QiEBK-000655-S3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 19:21:59 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QiEBI-00064t-QQ for 2030@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 19:21:57 -0400 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p6GNLmlL026488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 16 Jul 2011 23:21:50 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p6GNLmEX014195 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 16 Jul 2011 23:21:48 GMT Received: from abhmt102.oracle.com (abhmt102.oracle.com [141.146.116.54]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p6GNLgf3003393; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 18:21:43 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.38.176) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 16:21:42 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen'" References: <000c01c97e57$3c19ad20$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com><86BC06476E904F86B9CB1A52BF6E714F@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: 23.0.60; doc string of dired-guess-shell-alist-user Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 16:21:38 -0700 Message-ID: <057DB3F3B113413AA463B2C0902C846C@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcxD6D/fq+41bX+2QHyW0vjMotTXmgAJsRRQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090201.4E221D0E.0070:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 2030 Cc: 2030@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) > I disagree, and I'm closing this report. Then please change the status from `fixed' to `wontfix', Lars. You did not fix anything that was reported. And there were several points raised - all ignored. ("\\.bar\'" to "\\.bar\\'" had apparently already been corrected.) You even left the inappropriate uppercase for the fictitious command names. All you did AFAICT was change the calls to `list' to a quoted list constant - no relation to the bug report. Worse - part of the bug report was precisely that there is no sense in showing an example with `setq', especially if the value is a _constant_. There is no reason to show _setting_ the value - in any way. It is fine to show an example value though (provided it is cleaned up, as suggested), if it helps to understand the structure etc. But no reason to show how to set it. If for some reason (and there is none here) we did need to mention how to set this option's value, then general Emacs policy calls for privileging Customize in the doc. You not only insisted that the doc string show how to set the value (useless), but that it continue to do so using `setq' - not even `customize-set-variable'. The reason you gave was that users will want to copy+paste this `setq' expression. Hard to believe. It's your prerogative not to fix the bug, but in that case please change the status to `wontfix'. Thank you. From unknown Mon Jun 23 05:58:12 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 11:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator