From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: 24.3; Comint mode sets a bad $EMACS Resent-From: Eli Barzilay Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 21:46:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.14273199128866 (code B ref -1); Wed, 25 Mar 2015 21:46:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Mar 2015 21:45:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36661 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Yat6t-0002Iv-Bk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Mar 2015 17:45:12 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:57755) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Yat6p-0002IS-Rq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Mar 2015 17:45:09 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yat6j-0003wv-9C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Mar 2015 17:45:02 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:58338) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yat6j-0003wr-62 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Mar 2015 17:45:01 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59475) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yat6h-0006Xz-Mx for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Mar 2015 17:45:01 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yat6c-0003rC-Kd for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Mar 2015 17:44:59 -0400 Received: from mail-qg0-f48.google.com ([209.85.192.48]:34946) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yat6c-0003nj-Fb for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Mar 2015 17:44:54 -0400 Received: by qgh3 with SMTP id 3so53742838qgh.2 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 2015 14:44:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:date:to:subject; bh=WGE//PPic/AhsiyN+ryjz6rwuiQ90Qd+uXXG1wv7LrA=; b=FtVj8tvY63PdOWKkyvkUNJ5VViGLv87ZfzxsXZ1Rh1qP4/C/Q0wdcVVwNPm1zGZpLT pZpL8W8GyxCNKvieNadZ4tS+qDgKp1GDpxW2dX5WxwHs9kacVz3Q9DHhxu1WzY2DMME1 f00/2cFc5QpeG9XfqzGtejSgaHOYe4N/zNkXDxZtWUbPmJL8BXUzC8A/H+p75wg47Qp0 1chlBm9Gxj4BM7f8a3lHxOiCGXmPiSVda2HVY/y9i11tguwnK1npBfo4IpqwaxA75ugw qgs5s6i+kGUP+yVeUS8nUvf12nqIUtmtJxyTCwaJKYmkE6DlUJgawzPRaBaxFDPpheOi cXiw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkrA/PG66g7LLagKs/enGKDmO8CUOGiL8tZvwqGsAF/Bb9BmtC8gofmo7UeXkS+gPQPRuFN X-Received: by 10.141.18.146 with SMTP id u140mr14357937qhd.48.1427319893260; Wed, 25 Mar 2015 14:44:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from home.barzilay.org (c-24-60-254-179.hsd1.ma.comcast.net. [24.60.254.179]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id d49sm1519180qge.19.2015.03.25.14.44.52 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 25 Mar 2015 14:44:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Eli Barzilay MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <21779.11347.198784.304481@home.barzilay.org> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 17:44:51 -0400 X-Mailer: VM 8.2.0a under 24.3.1 (x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) I was surprised to see that compiling some random Emacs code via a Makefile fails when running inside Emacs with an obscure /bin/sh: t: command not found I found this setting in comint.el: (unless (getenv "EMACS") (list "EMACS=t")) And that would obviously break such Makefile uses (and IIUC, $EMACS is a popular choice for specifying which emacs binary to use). It looks like this was done in this commit: commit cfefbbf4404963cdf042fb794e0456503aa8b591 Author: Chong Yidong Date: 2006-11-18 21:01:33 +0000 (comint-exec-1): Set EMACS and INSIDE_EMACS to t. Before this commit, EMACS was set with (concat "EMACS=" invocation-directory invocation-name) which doesn't look like a good idea either (if you happen to use some other Emacs version, you still expect the shell to be a plain shell), but it at least didn't break it. But this change was done shortly after: commit 4b1aaa8b07cf2797b5a57e2a1fd88f3ec0aa41e2 Author: Paul Eggert Date: 2006-09-12 16:43:25 +0000 * etc/NEWS: In terminal-oriented subshells, the EMACS environment variable now defaults to Emacs's absolute file name, instead of to "t". and before that (all the way to the initial comint version in git), it was always "t". It looks like this was intended as a way to tell if you're running inside emacs, which was superseded by $INSIDE_EMACS -- misc.texi says (It also sets the @env{EMACS} environment variable to @code{t}, if that environment variable is not already defined. However, this environment variable is deprecated; programs that use it should switch to using @env{INSIDE_EMACS} instead.) and the changelog dates this to the same date as the first commit above. So, since it has been deprecated for almost 8 years, it looks fine to remove it. If not, then setting it back to the running Emacs would work too, but better to not do such an unexpected change, so something like "EMACS=emacs" is probably going to be unobtrusive. Or if there's some motivation behind intentionally making it some string that is not an executable, then "EMACS=some-descriptive-text" would be better. As a sidenote, misc/efaq.texi uses $EMACS still. (But for tcsh, so not that anyone should care...) -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life! From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: 24.3; Comint mode sets a bad $EMACS Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 00:48:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Barzilay Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.142733082226089 (code B ref 20202); Thu, 26 Mar 2015 00:48:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Mar 2015 00:47:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36736 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Yavwr-0006mU-De for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Mar 2015 20:47:01 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:56319) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Yavwo-0006mD-Mm for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Mar 2015 20:46:59 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgUFAGvvdVRBbthL/2dsb2JhbAA3gVOhb4EIgXUBAQQBViMFCws0EhQYDSSIE6IRjB5GCQECAQKDPgODcASoOw X-IPAS-Result: AgUFAGvvdVRBbthL/2dsb2JhbAA3gVOhb4EIgXUBAQQBViMFCws0EhQYDSSIE6IRjB5GCQECAQKDPgODcASoOw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.01,1,1400040000"; d="scan'208";a="114592919" Received: from 65-110-216-75.cpe.pppoe.ca (HELO pastel.home) ([65.110.216.75]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 25 Mar 2015 20:46:53 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 83CE62455; Wed, 25 Mar 2015 20:46:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <21779.11347.198784.304481@home.barzilay.org> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 20:46:52 -0400 In-Reply-To: <21779.11347.198784.304481@home.barzilay.org> (Eli Barzilay's message of "Wed, 25 Mar 2015 17:44:51 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) > So, since it has been deprecated for almost 8 years, it looks fine to > remove it. Agreed. > If not, then setting it back to the running Emacs would work too, but It's never really been set that way, except for some very brief window (I don't think it made it into a release, for example). Stefan From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: 24.3; Comint mode sets a bad $EMACS Resent-From: Eli Barzilay Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2015 15:28:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.142755646411541 (code B ref 20202); Sat, 28 Mar 2015 15:28:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Mar 2015 15:27:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38991 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YbseF-000305-Rw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 28 Mar 2015 11:27:44 -0400 Received: from mail-wi0-f177.google.com ([209.85.212.177]:35576) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YbseE-0002zq-0d for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 28 Mar 2015 11:27:42 -0400 Received: by wibbg6 with SMTP id bg6so57488370wib.0 for <20202@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 28 Mar 2015 08:27:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=W2UHNZw2d57AKQZ/Q45tkrVe0ZnSt6u6Matr2wL8wnk=; b=c5Bf2V5ijY87Sw5lWt48Sx9EMSixaa9YE53bxHMExwv1UfPc+97Sw8AniTGpQILhJs HMBaWT1pCGZK9ptvMyTfjd6GnLXQRZyJbyl71raN2bnnftFgyanTd+vVrnFXmDXMFjQd bZEooF/X9GZFqNXhf8Yy56F0Fd9tT80H3IgrVeuDqYjh0llgzXTRYt/8pWqvJ5zyqb6c dnAuKYRrP85IbeSE5G3k0E7Tt+MfxPv5CTNKd0NK7CNPH78OdWoOpsWAUR7L2al5ZMEN x4PFUtHiwkp5NTpAvWtStbst9qpqCBV6F6t3m9fE4en9u4I5z8U2wIab8ZHVO+uLV2Vh g/JA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnSzZplc69HXuNPlNvSen2SHVVJeE/0kOsJxZRH6yYTX3uYRndpgDM3gkmDxD5J0X62Qtci MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.19.166 with SMTP id g6mr47588572wje.150.1427556456482; Sat, 28 Mar 2015 08:27:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.84.4 with HTTP; Sat, 28 Mar 2015 08:27:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <21779.11347.198784.304481@home.barzilay.org> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2015 11:27:35 -0400 Message-ID: From: Eli Barzilay Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 8:46 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> So, since it has been deprecated for almost 8 years, it looks fine to >> remove it. > > Agreed. > >> If not, then setting it back to the running Emacs would work too, but > > It's never really been set that way, except for some very brief window > (I don't think it made it into a release, for example). Yeah, that's what I thought. FWIW, to avoid it for now, I've made my Emacs set it to "emacs" and it looks like that works fine for builds. -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life! From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.503 (Entity 5.503) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Eli Barzilay Subject: bug#20202: closed (Re: bug#20202: 24.3; Comint mode sets a bad $EMACS) Message-ID: References: <21779.11347.198784.304481@home.barzilay.org> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 20202 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 15:03:03 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1428591783-21903-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1428591783-21903-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #20202: 24.3; Comint mode sets a bad $EMACS which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 20202@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 20202: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D20202 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1428591783-21903-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 20202-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Apr 2015 15:02:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51279 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YgDyT-0005gU-HN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Apr 2015 11:02:33 -0400 Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:34591) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YgDyS-0005gN-0M for 20202-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Apr 2015 11:02:32 -0400 Received: from pastel.home (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id t39F2Tva009939; Thu, 9 Apr 2015 11:02:29 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 4C7172D4A; Thu, 9 Apr 2015 11:02:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Eli Barzilay Subject: Re: bug#20202: 24.3; Comint mode sets a bad $EMACS Message-ID: References: <21779.11347.198784.304481@home.barzilay.org> Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 11:02:29 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Eli Barzilay's message of "Sat, 28 Mar 2015 11:27:35 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV5271=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9393 : core <5271> : inlines <2670> : streams <1419631> : uri <1902569> X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20202-done Cc: 20202-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) > Yeah, that's what I thought. FWIW, to avoid it for now, I've made my > Emacs set it to "emacs" and it looks like that works fine for builds. I've just installed the patch below into master, which should fix this problem, Stefan diff --git a/lisp/comint.el b/lisp/comint.el index 31649ff..2769c87 100644 --- a/lisp/comint.el +++ b/lisp/comint.el @@ -816,8 +816,6 @@ series of processes in the same Comint buffer. The hook (format "COLUMNS=%d" (window-width))) (list "TERM=emacs" (format "TERMCAP=emacs:co#%d:tc=unknown:" (window-width)))) - (unless (getenv "EMACS") - (list "EMACS=t")) (list (format "INSIDE_EMACS=%s,comint" emacs-version)) process-environment)) (default-directory diff --git a/lisp/net/tramp-sh.el b/lisp/net/tramp-sh.el index f59c5fb..3f006e8 100644 --- a/lisp/net/tramp-sh.el +++ b/lisp/net/tramp-sh.el @@ -496,7 +496,6 @@ as given in your `~/.profile'." (defcustom tramp-remote-process-environment `("TMOUT=0" "LC_CTYPE=''" ,(format "TERM=%s" tramp-terminal-type) - "EMACS=t" ;; Deprecated. ,(format "INSIDE_EMACS='%s,tramp:%s'" emacs-version tramp-version) "CDPATH=" "HISTORY=" "MAIL=" "MAILCHECK=" "MAILPATH=" "PAGER=cat" "autocorrect=" "correct=") diff --git a/lisp/progmodes/compile.el b/lisp/progmodes/compile.el index 362bbf5..9d36e91 100644 --- a/lisp/progmodes/compile.el +++ b/lisp/progmodes/compile.el @@ -1666,11 +1666,7 @@ Returns the compilation buffer created." (list "TERM=emacs" (format "TERMCAP=emacs:co#%d:tc=unknown:" (window-width)))) - ;; Set the EMACS variable, but - ;; don't override users' setting of $EMACS. - (unless (getenv "EMACS") - (list "EMACS=t")) - (list "INSIDE_EMACS=t") + (list (format "INSIDE_EMACS=%s,compile" emacs-version)) (copy-sequence process-environment)))) (set (make-local-variable 'compilation-arguments) (list command mode name-function highlight-regexp)) diff --git a/lisp/term.el b/lisp/term.el index 43138fa..4c82986 100644 --- a/lisp/term.el +++ b/lisp/term.el @@ -1505,11 +1505,6 @@ Using \"emacs\" loses, because bash disables editing if $TERM == emacs.") (format "TERMINFO=%s" data-directory) (format term-termcap-format "TERMCAP=" term-term-name term-height term-width) - ;; We are going to get rid of the binding for EMACS, - ;; probably in Emacs 23, because it breaks - ;; `./configure' of some packages that expect it to - ;; say where to find EMACS. - (format "EMACS=%s (term:%s)" emacs-version term-protocol-version) (format "INSIDE_EMACS=%s,term:%s" emacs-version term-protocol-version) (format "LINES=%d" term-height) (format "COLUMNS=%d" term-width)) ------------=_1428591783-21903-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Mar 2015 21:45:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36661 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Yat6t-0002Iv-Bk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Mar 2015 17:45:12 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:57755) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Yat6p-0002IS-Rq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Mar 2015 17:45:09 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yat6j-0003wv-9C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Mar 2015 17:45:02 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:58338) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yat6j-0003wr-62 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Mar 2015 17:45:01 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59475) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yat6h-0006Xz-Mx for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Mar 2015 17:45:01 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yat6c-0003rC-Kd for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Mar 2015 17:44:59 -0400 Received: from mail-qg0-f48.google.com ([209.85.192.48]:34946) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yat6c-0003nj-Fb for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Mar 2015 17:44:54 -0400 Received: by qgh3 with SMTP id 3so53742838qgh.2 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 2015 14:44:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:date:to:subject; bh=WGE//PPic/AhsiyN+ryjz6rwuiQ90Qd+uXXG1wv7LrA=; b=FtVj8tvY63PdOWKkyvkUNJ5VViGLv87ZfzxsXZ1Rh1qP4/C/Q0wdcVVwNPm1zGZpLT pZpL8W8GyxCNKvieNadZ4tS+qDgKp1GDpxW2dX5WxwHs9kacVz3Q9DHhxu1WzY2DMME1 f00/2cFc5QpeG9XfqzGtejSgaHOYe4N/zNkXDxZtWUbPmJL8BXUzC8A/H+p75wg47Qp0 1chlBm9Gxj4BM7f8a3lHxOiCGXmPiSVda2HVY/y9i11tguwnK1npBfo4IpqwaxA75ugw qgs5s6i+kGUP+yVeUS8nUvf12nqIUtmtJxyTCwaJKYmkE6DlUJgawzPRaBaxFDPpheOi cXiw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkrA/PG66g7LLagKs/enGKDmO8CUOGiL8tZvwqGsAF/Bb9BmtC8gofmo7UeXkS+gPQPRuFN X-Received: by 10.141.18.146 with SMTP id u140mr14357937qhd.48.1427319893260; Wed, 25 Mar 2015 14:44:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from home.barzilay.org (c-24-60-254-179.hsd1.ma.comcast.net. [24.60.254.179]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id d49sm1519180qge.19.2015.03.25.14.44.52 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 25 Mar 2015 14:44:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Eli Barzilay MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <21779.11347.198784.304481@home.barzilay.org> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 17:44:51 -0400 To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.3; Comint mode sets a bad $EMACS X-Mailer: VM 8.2.0a under 24.3.1 (x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) I was surprised to see that compiling some random Emacs code via a Makefile fails when running inside Emacs with an obscure /bin/sh: t: command not found I found this setting in comint.el: (unless (getenv "EMACS") (list "EMACS=t")) And that would obviously break such Makefile uses (and IIUC, $EMACS is a popular choice for specifying which emacs binary to use). It looks like this was done in this commit: commit cfefbbf4404963cdf042fb794e0456503aa8b591 Author: Chong Yidong Date: 2006-11-18 21:01:33 +0000 (comint-exec-1): Set EMACS and INSIDE_EMACS to t. Before this commit, EMACS was set with (concat "EMACS=" invocation-directory invocation-name) which doesn't look like a good idea either (if you happen to use some other Emacs version, you still expect the shell to be a plain shell), but it at least didn't break it. But this change was done shortly after: commit 4b1aaa8b07cf2797b5a57e2a1fd88f3ec0aa41e2 Author: Paul Eggert Date: 2006-09-12 16:43:25 +0000 * etc/NEWS: In terminal-oriented subshells, the EMACS environment variable now defaults to Emacs's absolute file name, instead of to "t". and before that (all the way to the initial comint version in git), it was always "t". It looks like this was intended as a way to tell if you're running inside emacs, which was superseded by $INSIDE_EMACS -- misc.texi says (It also sets the @env{EMACS} environment variable to @code{t}, if that environment variable is not already defined. However, this environment variable is deprecated; programs that use it should switch to using @env{INSIDE_EMACS} instead.) and the changelog dates this to the same date as the first commit above. So, since it has been deprecated for almost 8 years, it looks fine to remove it. If not, then setting it back to the running Emacs would work too, but better to not do such an unexpected change, so something like "EMACS=emacs" is probably going to be unobtrusive. Or if there's some motivation behind intentionally making it some string that is not an executable, then "EMACS=some-descriptive-text" would be better. As a sidenote, misc/efaq.texi uses $EMACS still. (But for tcsh, so not that anyone should care...) -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life! ------------=_1428591783-21903-1-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 07 10:53:54 2016 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Apr 2016 14:53:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53014 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoBJh-00083V-Vp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 10:53:54 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:43461) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoBJg-00083I-Kf for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 10:53:52 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 413DF16124A for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 07:53:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id sb6nxJkS0wix for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 07:53:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4D89161289 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 07:53:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id tMp7TPavjHsd for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 07:53:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from penguin.cs.ucla.edu (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8ED9816127E for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 07:53:46 -0700 (PDT) To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Paul Eggert Subject: reopen 20202 Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <5706747A.3070305@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 07:53:46 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) unarchive 20202 reopen 20202 thanks From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Paul Eggert Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 14:58:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Phillip Lord Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@penguin.cs.ucla.edu, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.146004104131293 (code B ref 20202); Thu, 07 Apr 2016 14:58:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Apr 2016 14:57:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53019 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoBN3-00088f-Dy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 10:57:21 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:43801) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoBN2-00088Q-5Z for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 10:57:20 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9820D16124A; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 07:57:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 7_tT8j178F8l; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 07:57:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5DD7161289; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 07:57:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id qI9rR89b_VbU; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 07:57:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from penguin.cs.ucla.edu (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 88F8B16124A; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 07:57:13 -0700 (PDT) References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <74bf15b3e1a5afeb41cf6b39d5247e8b.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <57067549.8010008@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 07:57:13 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <74bf15b3e1a5afeb41cf6b39d5247e8b.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 04/07/2016 12:18 AM, Phillip Lord wrote: > I will submit a new bug > report to reopen 20202 which is now not fixed. I reopened Bug#20202, so there should be no need to submit a new bug report. For those joining this this via Bug#20202, this message is following up on a thread starting here: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2016-04/msg00184.html From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Paul Eggert Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 15:02:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Phillip Lord Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.14600413014279 (code B ref 20202); Thu, 07 Apr 2016 15:02:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Apr 2016 15:01:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53023 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoBRE-00016g-Um for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 11:01:41 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:44278) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoBRD-000127-U0; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 11:01:40 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AE2F16124A; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:01:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 5aPTr7ONwZNq; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:01:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6B38161288; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:01:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id owdY9S1c3l33; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:01:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from penguin.cs.ucla.edu (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B9C5D16124A; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:01:33 -0700 (PDT) References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:01:33 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 04/07/2016 12:35 AM, Phillip Lord wrote: > As a better alternatively, would it be possible to find a solution to > 20484 which does not involve EMACS=t? > > This would both address 20484 and 20202, rather than robbing Peter to pay > Paul. I'm afraid nothing comes to mind. I'll CC: this to both bug reports to see if others have ideas. From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: "Phillip Lord" Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 15:19:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Paul Eggert" Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, Phillip Lord Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.14600423237034 (code B ref 20202); Thu, 07 Apr 2016 15:19:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Apr 2016 15:18:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53046 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoBhj-0001pN-0n for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 11:18:43 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:37320) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoBhh-0001p7-9s; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 11:18:41 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:Cc:To:From:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID; bh=3vvUf3RCu/QOkcjltytBxVGIDN0XZAEgoACjCXuK0wE=; b=BucRctQW2rE63KvrJQUy855joY pUBW/yZwZhfXvEGd/8Gao+pNKGYH5ZWuqVf7HHOhZarYq9InSPK8Zk/VMtaM2+Zl/SsaW1Ua20xqn J/7wvMrkbodRErWY6DqSyb0ZoZBcLa/QTGs4fKEG04w7TqY8mzVZuM79HCUCP+puV1dD8qlndmth9 hL3qxVisr7frB+3SKMf8fp8ECtzhqWaS3SbF48llLi/0lMsOAb8jp/rPOOlNLP3FeMmPwqNNYlZvu C/yZwbN1ozD+Ig5ex/ijzEReViOqHenKmlQ6E6BXx99QX70YMOvzIyp/wxlD4gCKX1JrmA8edwwjV PY88mcZg==; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=54943 helo=cloud103.planethippo.com) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1aoBha-003Nzi-Fe; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 16:18:34 +0100 Received: from 77.98.219.118 ([77.98.219.118]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user phillip.lord@russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with HTTP; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 16:18:34 +0100 Message-ID: <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> In-Reply-To: <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 16:18:34 +0100 From: "Phillip Lord" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On Thu, April 7, 2016 4:01 pm, Paul Eggert wrote: > On 04/07/2016 12:35 AM, Phillip Lord wrote: > >> As a better alternatively, would it be possible to find a solution to >> 20484 which does not involve EMACS=t? >> >> >> This would both address 20484 and 20202, rather than robbing Peter to >> pay Paul. >> > I'm afraid nothing comes to mind. I'll CC: this to both bug reports to > see if others have ideas. I can think of several possibilities. In particular, the EMACS=t behaviour of bash should also be replicable with bash -o emacs. I'm happy to try these out and see if it works, so long as the EMACS=t is not considered to be a closed issue for Emacs 25. From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Paul Eggert Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 15:26:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Phillip Lord Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.14600427527680 (code B ref 20202); Thu, 07 Apr 2016 15:26:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Apr 2016 15:25:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53053 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoBod-0001zn-VS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 11:25:52 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:46747) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoBoc-0001zY-2d; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 11:25:50 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5A7F161288; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:25:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id DMsSdJVPhVSt; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:25:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06BF2161289; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:25:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id wrq3g7gw18sK; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:25:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from penguin.cs.ucla.edu (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E0EE2161246; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:25:42 -0700 (PDT) References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:25:42 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 04/07/2016 08:18 AM, Phillip Lord wrote: > I can think of several possibilities. In particular, the EMACS=t behaviour > of bash should also be replicable with bash -o emacs. I expect that this problem affects programs other than bash. For example, tcsh 6.19.00 (the latest version of the first other shell that I checked) tests whether EMACS is "t". From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Glenn Morris Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 16:03:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Paul Eggert Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, Phillip Lord Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.146004493711145 (code B ref 20202); Thu, 07 Apr 2016 16:03:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Apr 2016 16:02:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53096 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoCNs-0002th-Uu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:02:17 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:40186) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoCNr-0002tV-J3 for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:02:15 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoCNh-0004d9-4C for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:02:10 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:37608) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoCMl-0004P7-Nc; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:01:07 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aoCMj-0004aN-Nk; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:01:05 -0400 From: Glenn Morris References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> X-Spook: cypherpunk offensive information warfare security X-Ran: -;/6|b(hV,G3.XY&Q!r74{\\f3fyCfG8(5|y/^vJGm`u[!Qv>TZ6vs"V,#$'?s#[lQNN_r X-Hue: red X-Attribution: GM Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:01:05 -0400 In-Reply-To: <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:25:42 -0700") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) Paul Eggert wrote: > On 04/07/2016 08:18 AM, Phillip Lord wrote: >> I can think of several possibilities. In particular, the EMACS=t behaviour >> of bash should also be replicable with bash -o emacs. > I expect that this problem affects programs other than bash. For > example, tcsh 6.19.00 (the latest version of the first other shell > that I checked) tests whether EMACS is "t". IMO this issue is effectively going to be impossible to change. Eg is there any sign of tcsh adapting? How long for that change to make it into the long-term stable release of all major distributions? How many other things need similar changes? Just resign yourself to the fact that EMACS has a not-very useful value inside comint. From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: "Phillip Lord" Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 16:08:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Paul Eggert" Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, Phillip Lord Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.146004525111601 (code B ref 20202); Thu, 07 Apr 2016 16:08:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Apr 2016 16:07:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53106 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoCSw-00030y-PR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:07:30 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:39216) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoCSu-00030f-Uj; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:07:29 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:Cc:To:From:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID; bh=qbKt9+p+YKHVfN+0naqJISpAcaDBdizcyZ3PP7q7EWA=; b=eZ2EgWBs33dDICx2S3bpvAvf2d Kp/0xSGrO5aHffgXSHl4SD30HwUzYD4a0HhtQcUMRT8H2amyjhAbxrGD+uCcj1LlATMTiyZ+xEniV nv+sR51iecvBtTZ/eSSIHYbLlCYx60WuoI9PdNCkI7yucjuWl1bVUWX8xyu7jRINmQCv/vHhuXjW8 MHRerk46A2mAQUS5yGyDv47taCDYQGHaT2+xQErg5INW1PJH6ibzXNb0bcOj8FRWvudIPcbCssZrr IbDBn1dTCybYc9gwd7SCSom7JFmzdWX29+NQ9f1rVJ9IsxIONnXMQWoTikrABBVpwH02Bifn61B0y 9trSh0+Q==; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=56840 helo=cloud103.planethippo.com) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1aoCSo-003Vn3-E1; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 17:07:22 +0100 Received: from 77.98.219.118 ([77.98.219.118]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user phillip.lord@russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with HTTP; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 17:07:22 +0100 Message-ID: <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> In-Reply-To: <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 17:07:22 +0100 From: "Phillip Lord" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On Thu, April 7, 2016 4:25 pm, Paul Eggert wrote: > On 04/07/2016 08:18 AM, Phillip Lord wrote: > >> I can think of several possibilities. In particular, the EMACS=t >> behaviour of bash should also be replicable with bash -o emacs. > I expect that this problem affects programs other than bash. For > example, tcsh 6.19.00 (the latest version of the first other shell that I > checked) tests whether EMACS is "t". Well, I need to scope this. If the issue is tcsh and bash, then I will look at both. I cannot, of course, look at any arbitrary program which might be affected. Phil From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Paul Eggert Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 16:27:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Phillip Lord Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.146004637013247 (code B ref 20202); Thu, 07 Apr 2016 16:27:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Apr 2016 16:26:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53114 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoCl0-0003RY-DE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:26:10 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:53082) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoCky-0003RJ-TF; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:26:09 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AE1116124A; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 09:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id UopfbWwXPfky; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 09:26:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66173161293; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 09:26:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id QxtUgzMcPp0z; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 09:26:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from penguin.cs.ucla.edu (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4E0F016124A; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 09:26:00 -0700 (PDT) References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 09:26:00 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 04/07/2016 09:07 AM, Phillip Lord wrote: > Well, I need to scope this. If the issue is tcsh and bash, then I will > look at both. I cannot, of course, look at any arbitrary program which > might be affected. I think we'd be OK if we work with the "common" shells. But that would include zsh, whose current FAQ says the following: Probably the most reliable way of dealing with this is to look for the environment variable `$EMACS', which is set to `t' in Emacs' shell mode. Putting [[ $EMACS = t ]] && unsetopt zle in your .zshrc should be sufficient. So here it's not merely a matter of fixing zsh, it's also fixing all the users' .zshrc files that are following this (obsolescent) advice. So far we've looked at three shells (bash, tcsh, zsh), and found compatibility issues with all three. This is not a good sign. From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 16:52:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Paul Eggert Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Phillip Lord Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.146004792115516 (code B ref 20202); Thu, 07 Apr 2016 16:52:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Apr 2016 16:52:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53136 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoDA1-00042B-3n for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:52:01 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:59063) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoD9y-00041u-H4; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:51:59 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0CVDQA731xV/wl73mhcDoMChALBFYdLBAICgTw7EgEBAQEBAQGBCkEFg10BAQMBViMQCzQSFBgNJC6ICQjPIwEBCAIBH4s6hQUHhC0FtQQjgjt/WiKCeAEBAQ X-IPAS-Result: A0CVDQA731xV/wl73mhcDoMChALBFYdLBAICgTw7EgEBAQEBAQGBCkEFg10BAQMBViMQCzQSFBgNJC6ICQjPIwEBCAIBH4s6hQUHhC0FtQQjgjt/WiKCeAEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,465,1427774400"; d="scan'208";a="205373381" Received: from 104-222-123-9.cpe.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([104.222.123.9]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP; 07 Apr 2016 12:51:51 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id CC22B64010; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 12:51:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:51:51 -0400 In-Reply-To: <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:25:42 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) >> I can think of several possibilities. In particular, the EMACS=t behaviour >> of bash should also be replicable with bash -o emacs. > I expect that this problem affects programs other than bash. For example, > tcsh 6.19.00 (the latest version of the first other shell that I checked) > tests whether EMACS is "t". It's not clear to me what "affects" means here. The problem explicitly reported in 20484 is that directory tracking is "turned off". This doesn't sound particularly terrible (as long as there's an easy way to get back the desired directory tracking). So I think to make an informed decision, we first need to figure out *how* all those shells are affected by having $EMACS be set to something else than "t". Maybe the best solution is to stop messing with $EMACS by default (and hence change the behavior of sub-shells in negative ways for some users), and then provide an easy way for those users to get back the "fully featured" sub-shell they love. Stefan From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 17:00:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.146004838716204 (code B ref 20202); Thu, 07 Apr 2016 17:00:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Apr 2016 16:59:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53146 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoDHX-0004DI-Ad for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:59:47 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:57293) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoDHV-0004D5-Th for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:59:46 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoDHN-0004B0-Kg for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:59:40 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:38708) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoDHE-000495-LY; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:59:28 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2998 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aoDHD-0007nz-QC; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:59:28 -0400 Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 19:59:11 +0300 Message-Id: <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Monnier on Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:51:51 -0400) References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Stefan Monnier > Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:51:51 -0400 > Cc: Phillip Lord , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, > 20484@debbugs.gnu.org > > Maybe the best solution is to stop messing with $EMACS by default (and > hence change the behavior of sub-shells in negative ways for some > users), and then provide an easy way for those users to get back the > "fully featured" sub-shell they love. I don't think this will satisfy users of those shells. From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 18:59:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.146005549926588 (code B ref 20202); Thu, 07 Apr 2016 18:59:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Apr 2016 18:58:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53188 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoF8E-0006ul-Kq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 14:58:18 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:44594) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoF8D-0006uV-9E; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 14:58:17 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0CdDQA731xV/wl73mhcgxCEAshgBAICgTw9EAEBAQEBAQGBCkEFg10BAQMBViMQCzQSFBgNJC6ICQjPIwEBCAIBH4s6hQUHhC0FtQQjgjuBWSKCeAEBAQ X-IPAS-Result: A0CdDQA731xV/wl73mhcgxCEAshgBAICgTw9EAEBAQEBAQGBCkEFg10BAQMBViMQCzQSFBgNJC6ICQjPIwEBCAIBH4s6hQUHhC0FtQQjgjuBWSKCeAEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,465,1427774400"; d="scan'208";a="205392698" Received: from 104-222-123-9.cpe.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([104.222.123.9]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP; 07 Apr 2016 14:58:08 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id A5D0B64010; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 14:58:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 14:58:07 -0400 In-Reply-To: <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 07 Apr 2016 19:59:11 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) >> Maybe the best solution is to stop messing with $EMACS by default (and >> hence change the behavior of sub-shells in negative ways for some >> users), and then provide an easy way for those users to get back the >> "fully featured" sub-shell they love. > I don't think this will satisfy users of those shells. I don't think "satisfy" is sufficiently well defined to be useful in this conversation. There's clearly a tradeoff to be made between bug#20202 and bug#20484. IOW, right now people who suffer from bug#20202 are not satisfied either. The ideal situation (which I think is the one that we should strive for in the long-run) is to have Emacs not touch the $EMACS var (which will address bug#20202). So the question is how to get there. It will most likely involve a bit of annoyance to some users along the way. But I think replacing $EMACS by $INSIDE_EMACS in their ~/.zshrc, or adding some magic one-liner in their ~/.emacs is a rather minor annoyance. Stefan From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 19:27:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.146005718029067 (code B ref 20202); Thu, 07 Apr 2016 19:27:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Apr 2016 19:26:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53198 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoFZM-0007Yl-Hu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 15:26:20 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:37150) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoFZL-0007YR-QU for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 15:26:20 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoFZF-0002aE-P9 for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 15:26:14 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:40561) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoFZ5-0002Ym-IW; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 15:26:03 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3057 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aoFZ4-0002Uo-Ov; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 15:26:03 -0400 Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 22:25:46 +0300 Message-Id: <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Monnier on Thu, 07 Apr 2016 14:58:07 -0400) References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 14:58:07 -0400 > > >> Maybe the best solution is to stop messing with $EMACS by default (and > >> hence change the behavior of sub-shells in negative ways for some > >> users), and then provide an easy way for those users to get back the > >> "fully featured" sub-shell they love. > > I don't think this will satisfy users of those shells. > > I don't think "satisfy" is sufficiently well defined to be useful in > this conversation. I think it is. > There's clearly a tradeoff to be made between bug#20202 and bug#20484. Experience has taught us that there's no real tradeoff, at least not in the next few years. As long as shells are in use which want EMACS=t, we must leave that in place. We already do as much as we can to alleviate the problems: set INSIDE_EMACS as well, and don't set EMACS=t if it is already set. I don't see what we can possibly do more. > IOW, right now people who suffer from bug#20202 are not satisfied either. They are mostly those who bump into this in Makefile's, where it is relatively easy to switch to another name. It's inconvenient, but easily fixed. By contrast, users of shells cannot always easily change what their shells expect in their sources. > The ideal situation (which I think is the one that we should strive for > in the long-run) is to have Emacs not touch the $EMACS var (which will > address bug#20202). So the question is how to get there. Waiting is the only way I see. From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 19:56:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Paul Eggert Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.146005891231656 (code B ref 20202); Thu, 07 Apr 2016 19:56:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Apr 2016 19:55:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53226 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoG1I-0008ER-AC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 15:55:12 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:47413) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoG1G-0008E6-Fz; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 15:55:11 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=hizR/H2ZnYYfSS9R9z0PemL84j1MbmmUKTY3CRT0nvM=; b=Sg7UqQLj4uuIck8yzfgbAALtwx U0L6UfcK627lZWwOmgRGr/s50lgtKj4v2oN0dU/WytyCfttjVPdFVa8bGOwWyoEWNnct84WYoZbkE jOl5oiUGfuarBSVklLtjy7MvRCrK1B9absSEddt3ca+nIjsbFn8hLySnUp0bz4aNzIvE6N2SUcM+q WOvr1eM98bgaOQDXhGtDflkFuHH/ugUGwHYV9B7C5WkYrj3mjPdeIQldgzWx0OSzDR2lHfpW5xmJu MtDsKH31Ol2OoAxr1FAphUCu7qerf2i2apKz0MZVfkTwEiv+nAXP3iTJnrMRnYyJai6KleHS78A+X I6ig/WuA==; Received: from cpc1-benw10-2-0-cust373.gate.cable.virginm.net ([77.98.219.118]:59660 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1aoG19-0049Nd-Nn; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 20:55:03 +0100 From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 20:55:02 +0100 In-Reply-To: <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Thu, 7 Apr 2016 09:26:00 -0700") Message-ID: <87egahtcrt.fsf@russet.org.uk> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Paul Eggert writes: > On 04/07/2016 09:07 AM, Phillip Lord wrote: >> Well, I need to scope this. If the issue is tcsh and bash, then I will >> look at both. I cannot, of course, look at any arbitrary program which >> might be affected. > > I think we'd be OK if we work with the "common" shells. But that would include > zsh, whose current FAQ says the following: > > Probably the most reliable way of dealing with this is to look for > the environment variable `$EMACS', which is set to `t' in > Emacs' shell mode. Putting > > [[ $EMACS = t ]] && unsetopt zle > > in your .zshrc should be sufficient. > > So here it's not merely a matter of fixing zsh, it's also fixing all the > users' .zshrc files that are following this (obsolescent) advice. > > So far we've looked at three shells (bash, tcsh, zsh), and found compatibility > issues with all three. This is not a good sign. So, bash has a command line option to achieve the same thing as EMACS=t. I've checked tcsh and as far as I can tell, here, there is no clear solution. EMACS=t is used, and it's deep in the init code. In my hands, directory tracking in tcsh does not work in ansi-term either way. Zsh does not, AFAICT, use EMACS=t (it's hard to be sure searching through the code, since most instances of "emacs" refer to zsh's emulation of Emacs). In fact, though, as the FAQ entry you found shows, zsh actually does this... /* unset zle if using zsh under emacs */ if (!strcmp(term, "emacs")) opts[USEZLE] = 0; which, according to the faq is behaviour from < Emacs-19.29. So, zsh users already explicitly tell their zsh what to do. Possible solutions: 1) For bash, launch with -o emacs, or call set -o emacs after launch. 2) zsh, launch and call unsetopt zle. 3) For tcsh, EMACS=t only needs to be correct during init. So, EMACS=t, launch tcsh, set EMACS=what-ever-it-was-before. 4) Everything else -- move the "call-process" call to a single function which people can advice as they choose. Phil From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 21:43:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Paul Eggert Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.14600653699029 (code B ref 20202); Thu, 07 Apr 2016 21:43:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Apr 2016 21:42:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53273 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoHhR-0002LW-Ag for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 17:42:49 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:51192) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoHhQ-0002LB-0Y; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 17:42:48 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=Kk2r1FXtKbg9mKfc2NPybTvCvCVkCXxYwDxtULg7DVM=; b=VU+VhNT1y+nJu4SGJrDcKKqenk A82Ex9J3I8Vdiid/mgJnhIyEV0TwJiO2xbkGn1J3hNOEB27b9ZjGvuVYddlDprIWxChQ43668SuNS 3LOw2VgmsmMfCYkUygnLwLVuw8ytX+F3kErsQpUj9YUKLWafN1IujpR2PHCGYR1/+zHe26p7Hlhzj vK/eDpLzUqGCW6LJbbYaozs0cl4SoJyTO/wYHgLa4oCb4/NE4U9Dv5GU9GP3GBE2xAya6wx6RqGvE e7RnGyJO0d2CH7eyR12oRBGN683VhAEEj4bq7uNDiv9FWOcjW8WWSrOa5hAM1Iy+56wkJqQfH65Jk vsPbXIDA==; Received: from cpc1-benw10-2-0-cust373.gate.cable.virginm.net ([77.98.219.118]:59917 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1aoHhJ-0000Z6-9v; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 22:42:41 +0100 From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 22:42:40 +0100 In-Reply-To: <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Thu, 7 Apr 2016 09:26:00 -0700") Message-ID: <87a8l5t7sf.fsf@russet.org.uk> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Paul Eggert writes: > On 04/07/2016 09:07 AM, Phillip Lord wrote: >> Well, I need to scope this. If the issue is tcsh and bash, then I will >> look at both. I cannot, of course, look at any arbitrary program which >> might be affected. > > I think we'd be OK if we work with the "common" shells. But that would include > zsh, whose current FAQ says the following: > > Probably the most reliable way of dealing with this is to look for > the environment variable `$EMACS', which is set to `t' in > Emacs' shell mode. Putting > > [[ $EMACS = t ]] && unsetopt zle > > in your .zshrc should be sufficient. > > So here it's not merely a matter of fixing zsh, it's also fixing all the > users' .zshrc files that are following this (obsolescent) advice. > > So far we've looked at three shells (bash, tcsh, zsh), and found compatibility > issues with all three. This is not a good sign. Incidentally, I have looked again at #20484. What ever it is that is supporting the directory tracking, it is not the EMACS=t behaviour of bash, since in ansi-term we have: (format "EMACS=%s (term:%s)" emacs-version term-protocol-version) This usage will happily not break cask, since it was never supported in the first place. On the other hand, directory tracking works just fine in M-x shell in both Emacs-25.0.91, and Emacs-25 head. So, the EMACS=t setting is not an issue there either. And, dir tracking is not an issue at all for M-x compile. This suggests a simple fix: restore beaab89, except for the bit dealing with ansi-term, which remains for the sake of future compatability. Both bug reports are fixed. Anyone launching cask (or the make files Eli Barzilay talked about in #20202) inside ansi-term may still have problems. ansi-term is already exceptional, note, because it does not obey the "don't fiddle with EMACS if EMACS is already set" semantics. Phil From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 22:02:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.146006650710727 (code B ref 20202); Thu, 07 Apr 2016 22:02:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Apr 2016 22:01:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53278 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoHzn-0002mw-0K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 18:01:47 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:24907) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoHzk-0002mg-UX; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 18:01:46 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0CdDQA731xV/wl73mhcgxCEAshgBAICgTw9EAEBAQEBAQGBCkEFg10BAQMBViMFCws0EhQYDSSINwjPIwEBAQEGAQEBAR6LOoUFB4QtAQS1BCOCO4FZIoJ4AQEB X-IPAS-Result: A0CdDQA731xV/wl73mhcgxCEAshgBAICgTw9EAEBAQEBAQGBCkEFg10BAQMBViMFCws0EhQYDSSINwjPIwEBAQEGAQEBAR6LOoUFB4QtAQS1BCOCO4FZIoJ4AQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,465,1427774400"; d="scan'208";a="205412554" Received: from 104-222-123-9.cpe.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([104.222.123.9]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP; 07 Apr 2016 18:01:38 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id EA8A164239; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 18:01:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 18:01:37 -0400 In-Reply-To: <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 07 Apr 2016 22:25:46 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) > in the next few years. As long as shells are in use which want > EMACS=t, we must leave that in place. No, nothing forces us to leave that in place. What is true is: As long as shells are in use which want EMACS=t, we should make sure that the affected users can still get the right behavior > Waiting is the only way I see. We've tried that for about 10 years now. I'd be surprised if another 10 years will make any difference in this respect. Stefan From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 22:21:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Cc: Paul Eggert , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.146006761512362 (code B ref 20202); Thu, 07 Apr 2016 22:21:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Apr 2016 22:20:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53290 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoIHf-0003DI-3S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 18:20:15 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:4977) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoIHd-0003D2-PR; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 18:20:14 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0A+FgA731xV/wl73mhcgxCEAoVVwwsEAgKBPD0QAQEBAQEBAYEKQQWDXQEBAwFWIwULCzQSFBgNUogJCM8jAQEBAQYBAQEBHos6hQUHhC0FtQQjgjuBWSKCeAEBAQ X-IPAS-Result: A0A+FgA731xV/wl73mhcgxCEAoVVwwsEAgKBPD0QAQEBAQEBAYEKQQWDXQEBAwFWIwULCzQSFBgNUogJCM8jAQEBAQYBAQEBHos6hQUHhC0FtQQjgjuBWSKCeAEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,465,1427774400"; d="scan'208";a="205414541" Received: from 104-222-123-9.cpe.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([104.222.123.9]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP; 07 Apr 2016 18:20:08 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 3235E64239; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 18:20:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> <87egahtcrt.fsf@russet.org.uk> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 18:20:08 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87egahtcrt.fsf@russet.org.uk> (Phillip Lord's message of "Thu, 07 Apr 2016 20:55:02 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) > So, bash has a command line option to achieve the same thing as EMACS=t. or the code can be changed to use $INSIDE_EMACS or the user could tell Emacs to set EMACS=t or the user could upgrade to the (upcoming) next release of Bash. 4 options for Bash, one of them will actually become the default in the future. So Bash is not a big problem here. > I've checked tcsh and as far as I can tell, here, there is no clear > solution. EMACS=t is used, and it's deep in the init code. In my hands, > directory tracking in tcsh does not work in ansi-term either way. So, does anything break if we don't have EMACS=t? It sounds like it's a non-issue. > Zsh does not, AFAICT, use EMACS=t (it's hard to be sure searching > through the code, since most instances of "emacs" refer to zsh's > emulation of Emacs). In fact, though, as the FAQ entry you found shows, > zsh actually does this... > > /* unset zle if using zsh under emacs */ > if (!strcmp(term, "emacs")) > opts[USEZLE] = 0; > > which, according to the faq is behaviour from < Emacs-19.29. Indeed, this code has been useless for many years already since Emacs doesn't set $TERM to "emacs" any more. > So, zsh users already explicitly tell their zsh what to do. So we don't have any evidence that removing EMACS=t will have any effect on Zsh users either. Stefan From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 07:02:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.146009887332744 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 08 Apr 2016 07:02:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 07:01:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53397 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQPp-0008W3-Jm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:01:13 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:54529) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQPo-0008Vj-9k for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:01:12 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQPi-0006EN-I4 for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:01:07 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:55560) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQPY-0006DE-Ry; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:00:56 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3818 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQPX-0005Hp-Qk; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:00:56 -0400 Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 10:00:38 +0300 Message-Id: <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Monnier on Thu, 07 Apr 2016 18:01:37 -0400) References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 18:01:37 -0400 > > > in the next few years. As long as shells are in use which want > > EMACS=t, we must leave that in place. > > No, nothing forces us to leave that in place. What is true is: > > As long as shells are in use which want EMACS=t, we should make sure > that the affected users can still get the right behavior We will never recover from bug reports if the behavior they want is not the default. > > Waiting is the only way I see. > > We've tried that for about 10 years now. > I'd be surprised if another 10 years will make any difference in > this respect. Maybe so, but I don't see any problem with that. We just tried to make the wait shorter, and see what happened. We should try again in few years, maybe the results will be better then. Hopefully. From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 07:03:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.1460098958426 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 08 Apr 2016 07:03:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 07:02:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53405 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQRC-00006n-6U for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:02:38 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:55059) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQR9-00006V-RD for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:02:36 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQR1-00071x-53 for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:02:30 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:55588) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQQq-0006nh-Fg; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:02:16 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3819 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQQp-000884-5U; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:02:15 -0400 Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 10:01:59 +0300 Message-Id: <8360vslh20.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <87a8l5t7sf.fsf@russet.org.uk> (phillip.lord@russet.org.uk) References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> <87a8l5t7sf.fsf@russet.org.uk> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) > Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 22:42:40 +0100 > Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca > > Incidentally, I have looked again at #20484. What ever it is that is > supporting the directory tracking, it is not the EMACS=t behaviour of > bash, since in ansi-term we have: > > (format "EMACS=%s (term:%s)" emacs-version term-protocol-version) > > This usage will happily not break cask, since it was never supported in > the first place. > > On the other hand, directory tracking works just fine in M-x shell in > both Emacs-25.0.91, and Emacs-25 head. So, the EMACS=t setting is not > an issue there either. And, dir tracking is not an issue at all for M-x > compile. > > This suggests a simple fix: restore beaab89, except for the bit dealing > with ansi-term, which remains for the sake of future compatability. Both > bug reports are fixed. Anyone launching cask (or the make files Eli > Barzilay talked about in #20202) inside ansi-term may still have > problems. > > ansi-term is already exceptional, note, because it does not obey the > "don't fiddle with EMACS if EMACS is already set" semantics. EMACS=t is for the old versions of Bash and other shells that look at that. So your proposal doesn't solve those problems, AFAIU. From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 07:05:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.1460099075660 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 08 Apr 2016 07:05:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 07:04:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53413 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQT4-0000AZ-Sn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:04:35 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:55812) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQT3-0000AA-Vg for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:04:34 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQSu-0007dt-PL for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:04:28 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:55630) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQSj-0007cy-N9; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:04:13 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3820 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQSi-0002Ga-PP; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:04:13 -0400 Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 10:03:51 +0300 Message-Id: <834mbclgyw.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <87egahtcrt.fsf@russet.org.uk> (phillip.lord@russet.org.uk) References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> <87egahtcrt.fsf@russet.org.uk> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) > Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 20:55:02 +0100 > Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca > > 1) For bash, launch with -o emacs, or call set -o emacs after launch. > 2) zsh, launch and call unsetopt zle. > 3) For tcsh, EMACS=t only needs to be correct during init. So, EMACS=t, > launch tcsh, set EMACS=what-ever-it-was-before. > 4) Everything else -- move the "call-process" call to a single function > which people can advice as they choose. Thanks. Such solution, if it indeed works, could be OK for master, but not for emacs-25. From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 07:07:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.1460099165857 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 08 Apr 2016 07:07:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 07:06:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53418 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQUX-0000Dk-AB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:06:05 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:56272) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQUV-0000DH-7n for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:06:03 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQUP-00080v-E7 for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:05:58 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:55663) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQUP-00080q-Av; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:05:57 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3821 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQUO-0004W4-Hr; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:05:56 -0400 Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 10:05:41 +0300 Message-Id: <8337qwlgvu.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Monnier on Thu, 07 Apr 2016 18:20:08 -0400) References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> <87egahtcrt.fsf@russet.org.uk> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Stefan Monnier > Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 18:20:08 -0400 > Cc: Paul Eggert , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, > 20202@debbugs.gnu.org > > So, does anything break if we don't have EMACS=t? > It sounds like it's a non-issue. That's not my conclusion, as I already wrote. From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Andreas Schwab Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 07:35:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Cc: Paul Eggert , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.14601008903533 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 08 Apr 2016 07:35:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 07:34:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53443 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQwM-0000uv-C4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:34:50 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.10]:47208) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoQwL-0000uk-A0; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 03:34:49 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3qhB7B4Lz4z3hjjV; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 09:34:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.68]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3qhB796vxhzvhMT; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 09:34:45 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.68]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0I1Z2kaiB79T; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 09:34:44 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Info: akFNY2iLoJrDJ3/64qhZ4H0qs915IDEW33dLun5vprfYe6iIMyM2TSYPQ6j4GO4P Received: from igel.home (ppp-88-217-23-82.dynamic.mnet-online.de [88.217.23.82]) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 09:34:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: by igel.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 6D1042C30F0; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 09:34:44 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> <87egahtcrt.fsf@russet.org.uk> X-Yow: Should I do my BOBBIE VINTON medley? Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:34:44 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87egahtcrt.fsf@russet.org.uk> (Phillip Lord's message of "Thu, 07 Apr 2016 20:55:02 +0100") Message-ID: <87bn5k365n.fsf@linux-m68k.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.92 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) writes: > 1) For bash, launch with -o emacs, or call set -o emacs after launch. set -o emacs has nothing to do with no_line_editing. Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756 01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5 "And now for something completely different." From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 13:10:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: Paul Eggert , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.14601209727087 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 08 Apr 2016 13:10:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 13:09:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53629 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoWAG-0001qA-EN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:09:32 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:55381) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoWAD-0001ps-Uf; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:09:30 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=K9IDoLCm57DK76U+uvjRIH1LBDdJ//lIiBbfSrZaftE=; b=Hx7qgu0Hlo2B7pakz/U+83igET 1/1H11YRwH/yiBTEQsy+Z/PyuUJPH9qzC1lUZMHhDVnaGCkDYVapuPmncOmbgSk8ZGDbwezdHfSAR dGY30WL0kVb6PTV1/l3l5gmbLX/2l/ygK3BoT289kj+Gy7+1JUVMOQT78N1w7uQne3S/B/GU10ME3 v19CV8s1zyVOUUYrVui/lzbT/zj71svs/iSHJM5QeE1fBoDBHR/6zGiEgrP5PHmpBecrBtPSA0Ym/ +o47s5hbdEzo3iWsL9QLfePG6dhBp69ioZre7XanakcZVz38tUQrJFwGr+VcYlG6rPdftbv2GagcQ qpiXRBXA==; Received: from janus-nat-128-240-225-60.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.225.60]:49312 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1aoWA6-002KN7-H1; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 14:09:22 +0100 From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> <87egahtcrt.fsf@russet.org.uk> Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 14:09:22 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Thu, 07 Apr 2016 18:20:08 -0400") Message-ID: <87vb3sjlh9.fsf@russet.org.uk> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Stefan Monnier writes: >> So, bash has a command line option to achieve the same thing as EMACS=t. > > or the code can be changed to use $INSIDE_EMACS > or the user could tell Emacs to set EMACS=t > or the user could upgrade to the (upcoming) next release of Bash. > > 4 options for Bash, one of them will actually become the default in the > future. So Bash is not a big problem here. So, this turns out to be untrue. Bug #20484 is caused NOT by the lack of EMACS=t. Ansi term sets EMACS="25.0.91.0 (term 0.91)" which is notable not "t". The code which checks this looks like this: running_under_emacs = (emacs != 0) || (term && STREQN (term, "emacs", 5)); running_under_emacs += term && STREQN (term, "eterm", 5) && emacs && strstr (emacs, "term"); which sets running_under_emacs=2 in ansi-term. This is checked later in eval.c. if (running_under_emacs == 2) send_pwd_to_eterm (); /* Yuck */ (the /*Yuck*/ is their comment not mine!). which does this: static void send_pwd_to_eterm () { char *pwd, *f; f = 0; pwd = get_string_value ("PWD"); if (pwd == 0) f = pwd = get_working_directory ("eterm"); fprintf (stderr, "\032/%s\n", pwd); free (f); } In otherwords, bash detects ansi-term specifically, and prints out PWD every command. The workaround to this is (nearly) documented in the headers of term.el. Adding this: cd(){ command cd "$@";printf '\032/%s\n' "$PWD"; } to .bashrc, and directory tracking works in Emacs-21.0.92 (with no EMACS set). The patch to bash that supposedly fixes bash to use INSIDE_EMACS looks like this... diff --git a/shell.c b/shell.c index c0107ff..dc9015d 100644 --- a/shell.c +++ b/shell.c @@ -581,12 +581,13 @@ main (argc, argv, env) emacs = get_string_value ("EMACS"); /* Not sure any emacs terminal emulator sets TERM=emacs any more */ - no_line_editing |= term && (STREQ (term, "emacs")); + no_line_editing |= STREQ (term, "emacs"); no_line_editing |= emacs && emacs[0] == 't' && emacs[1] == '\0' && STREQ (term, "dumb"); + no_line_editing |= get_string_value ("INSIDE_EMACS") != 0; /* running_under_emacs == 2 for `eterm' */ - running_under_emacs = (emacs != 0) || (term && STREQN (term, "emacs", 5)); - running_under_emacs += term && STREQN (term, "eterm", 5) && emacs && strstr (emacs, "term"); + running_under_emacs = (emacs != 0) || STREQN (term, "emacs", 5); + running_under_emacs += STREQN (term, "eterm", 5) && emacs && strstr (emacs, "term"); if (running_under_emacs) gnu_error_format = 1; Which is not the problem in the first place. Future versions of bash won't work either with ansi-term either. There may be outstanding issues -- i.e. "gnu_error_format" is also set, as is "no_line_editing". What practical implications these have for bash under Emacs, I do not know. AFAICT, though, we had no bug reports from users of M-x shell with bash for the year that "EMACS= ". We have a bug report for ansi-term with bash, is all. >> I've checked tcsh and as far as I can tell, here, there is no clear >> solution. EMACS=t is used, and it's deep in the init code. In my hands, >> directory tracking in tcsh does not work in ansi-term either way. > > So, does anything break if we don't have EMACS=t? > It sounds like it's a non-issue. Not in my hands. To get directory tracking in tcsh would require porting the bash fix above. >> Zsh does not, AFAICT, use EMACS=t (it's hard to be sure searching >> through the code, since most instances of "emacs" refer to zsh's >> emulation of Emacs). In fact, though, as the FAQ entry you found shows, >> zsh actually does this... >> >> /* unset zle if using zsh under emacs */ >> if (!strcmp(term, "emacs")) >> opts[USEZLE] = 0; >> >> which, according to the faq is behaviour from < Emacs-19.29. > > Indeed, this code has been useless for many years already since Emacs > doesn't set $TERM to "emacs" any more. > >> So, zsh users already explicitly tell their zsh what to do. > > So we don't have any evidence that removing EMACS=t will have any effect > on Zsh users either. At the moment, I have some evidence from the bash and tcsh that they are doing something with EMACS=t. But I do not, at the moment, know what the practical implications of these something are; loss of dir-tracking is not one of them. Phil From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 13:13:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Andreas Schwab Cc: Paul Eggert , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.14601211437344 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 08 Apr 2016 13:13:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 13:12:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53635 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoWD0-0001uN-Vw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:12:23 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:55472) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoWCz-0001u8-7F; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:12:21 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=dgHSylhACihESK4DLHBClIu8qXqfFvi6Suj2s+t1hLI=; b=idGGpTfbRsZEnN88yLuVYfA8VW Tu15/qH21W5D3Y1b6NFNUktI/yIPHTVmnj/vpyjhhzXidVoCTVU+L31CUk+wqQyuRi2lrDpRP5siy Rz0R7iFF30kxagiMiR/5/PnoW/DG6MNnWZwq4ehAogBIlrRF6GGNWJNUn3sBCpCz7+iznSOiUQ674 /Cat0gWGzLKWBQiFnqerp5sYYqhiBaHzn++wdVUN95aIiclPEfZZ1itrvVJXGlrSdsE44ohEHJmhA WNzDYTePKAFgWy7hwI+fEjVQy/TbSyBld+b42staQ4+W+s0iQc7aDxoMRofniFnu8HAmpLTwJoieD +xvhOudg==; Received: from janus-nat-128-240-225-60.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.225.60]:41990 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1aoWCo-002Kns-Ot; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 14:12:10 +0100 From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> <87egahtcrt.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87bn5k365n.fsf@linux-m68k.org> Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 14:12:09 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87bn5k365n.fsf@linux-m68k.org> (Andreas Schwab's message of "Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:34:44 +0200") Message-ID: <87r3egjlcm.fsf@russet.org.uk> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Andreas Schwab writes: > phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) writes: > >> 1) For bash, launch with -o emacs, or call set -o emacs after launch. > > set -o emacs has nothing to do with no_line_editing. Apologies, you are correct. It is emacs line_editing mode. As it turns out, but #20202 is not actually related to line_editing_mode anyway. Phil From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 13:16:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, Stefan Monnier , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.14601213187649 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 08 Apr 2016 13:16:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 13:15:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53647 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoWFp-0001zI-QX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:15:18 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:55555) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoWFo-0001z3-AJ; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:15:16 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=I4Uuhvd2bLiW6YFmxvHc2xjt/dQmoAYhXXcAswHIYjU=; b=DxSHdCzhXqMs5XCFcPvZMvwWyw dcXBi/Amj3iuzULzr+SS3ALVjCPLEA0PRJmmsvQzIdS5NRKWGbw5l+iKo1inNJiygtqCkW8HJXsO9 SNF7Id/xB2ZEd5XPq4ukpljKInTtzMQvxHvpWk/vFY1FPvBZhybxGEhsnP0epPm8f94lgn7WUs3ql PasKUsIOmLXqFcaP5rakrrZIX6E1CyWg0hzeZgUSPqO1EOCc84TSdVDwv5IXljj8dbCbg8sBx+J5H b7xGGrhyOTpukY8hBBOdb36Gc64qVneYsyeAgpB63yzGynkCkjWty6IUzAh7R8ymSkbSYZIm78XCt dQf7vYIw==; Received: from janus-nat-128-240-225-60.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.225.60]:49298 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1aoWFi-002LQE-GV; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 14:15:10 +0100 From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 14:15:07 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 07 Apr 2016 22:25:46 +0300") Message-ID: <87mvp4jl7o.fsf@russet.org.uk> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Stefan Monnier >> Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 14:58:07 -0400 >> >> >> Maybe the best solution is to stop messing with $EMACS by default (and >> >> hence change the behavior of sub-shells in negative ways for some >> >> users), and then provide an easy way for those users to get back the >> >> "fully featured" sub-shell they love. >> > I don't think this will satisfy users of those shells. >> >> I don't think "satisfy" is sufficiently well defined to be useful in >> this conversation. > > I think it is. > >> There's clearly a tradeoff to be made between bug#20202 and bug#20484. > > Experience has taught us that there's no real tradeoff, at least not > in the next few years. As long as shells are in use which want > EMACS=t, we must leave that in place. Both zsh and bash also check TERM=emacs, which isn't set. > They are mostly those who bump into this in Makefile's, where it is > relatively easy to switch to another name. It's inconvenient, but > easily fixed. By contrast, users of shells cannot always easily > change what their shells expect in their sources. Should we patch the Emacs makefiles to stop making use of $(EMACS) then? Phil From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 13:41:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.14601228529945 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 08 Apr 2016 13:41:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 13:40:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53661 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoWea-0002aL-IC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:40:52 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:38003) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoWeZ-0002a9-3Q for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:40:51 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoWeQ-0005OS-Ay for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:40:46 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:45107) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoWeH-0005Ni-0S; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:40:33 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4546 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aoWeG-0002Lt-7o; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:40:32 -0400 Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 16:40:06 +0300 Message-Id: <83bn5kjk21.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <87mvp4jl7o.fsf@russet.org.uk> (phillip.lord@russet.org.uk) References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <87mvp4jl7o.fsf@russet.org.uk> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) > Cc: Stefan Monnier , eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 14:15:07 +0100 > > > They are mostly those who bump into this in Makefile's, where it is > > relatively easy to switch to another name. It's inconvenient, but > > easily fixed. By contrast, users of shells cannot always easily > > change what their shells expect in their sources. > > Should we patch the Emacs makefiles to stop making use of $(EMACS) then? Yes. From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Glenn Morris Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 15:34:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, Stefan Monnier , phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.146012960327400 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 08 Apr 2016 15:34:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 15:33:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54751 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYPT-00077s-I8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:33:23 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:34753) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYPR-00077X-UH for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:33:22 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYPM-0007dJ-AC for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:33:16 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:46633) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYOJ-0007Hq-1q; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:32:11 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYOH-0004xC-2f; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:32:09 -0400 From: Glenn Morris References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spook: threat Drill Radioactive Cartel Shots fired anarchy Red X-Ran: >~qviXdj7&Q`u9.w[\@X3b$A:jm'0h8c!mQSD`"DL3(!4'h7q4;?S'Y3*F8u%=B_uQouJ, X-Hue: yellow X-Attribution: GM Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:32:08 -0400 In-Reply-To: <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 08 Apr 2016 10:00:38 +0300") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Maybe so, but I don't see any problem with that. We just tried to > make the wait shorter, and see what happened. We should try again in > few years, maybe the results will be better then. Hopefully. Waiting won't do anything. One should actively contact maintainers of affected packages. It's our fault, not theirs. From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Glenn Morris Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 15:46:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, Phillip Lord Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.146013035932285 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 08 Apr 2016 15:46:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 15:45:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54761 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYbe-0008OS-Tx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:45:59 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:37924) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYbd-0008HK-Bi for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:45:57 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYbX-00030s-Bf for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:45:52 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:46807) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYar-0002qf-2P; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:45:09 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYap-0003IN-Rq; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:45:07 -0400 From: Glenn Morris References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <87mvp4jl7o.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83bn5kjk21.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spook: Whitehouse Echelon Mena NORAD subversive Extremism X-Ran: ;5o2zOWp@tTmhyS1B(NFNYJiO~iG*eoZ3w2%C0]t2b{% (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 08 Apr 2016 16:40:06 +0300") Message-ID: <8br3eg85q4.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Should we patch the Emacs makefiles to stop making use of $(EMACS) then? > > Yes. Why? Emacs builds fine with "EMACS=blah" in the environment, since it explicitly sets EMACS as needed. The only issue here is with Makefiles that use their environment unsanitised. From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 16:01:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Glenn Morris Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.14601312303983 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 08 Apr 2016 16:01:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 16:00:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54778 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYpf-000128-UW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:00:30 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:41447) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYpb-00011u-OG for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:00:27 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYpS-0006rC-Ig for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:00:18 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:47077) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYpS-0006r8-Fq; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:00:14 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4641 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYpR-0002Le-4B; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:00:13 -0400 Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 18:59:43 +0300 Message-Id: <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: (message from Glenn Morris on Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:32:08 -0400) References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Glenn Morris > Cc: Stefan Monnier , phillip.lord@russet.org.uk, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:32:08 -0400 > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > Maybe so, but I don't see any problem with that. We just tried to > > make the wait shorter, and see what happened. We should try again in > > few years, maybe the results will be better then. Hopefully. > > Waiting won't do anything. One should actively contact maintainers of > affected packages. It's our fault, not theirs. We already did. "Waiting" here means wait until the old versions of the shells die peacefully and people stop using them. From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 16:03:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Glenn Morris Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.14601313344199 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 08 Apr 2016 16:03:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 16:02:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54790 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYrN-00015e-Qh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:02:14 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:42185) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYrM-00015P-0v for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:02:12 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYrB-0007Jw-Tk for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:02:07 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:47135) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYqw-0007Gb-Vy; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:01:47 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4642 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aoYqs-0004n3-Qg; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:01:44 -0400 Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 19:01:13 +0300 Message-Id: <834mbcjdiu.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <8br3eg85q4.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (message from Glenn Morris on Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:45:07 -0400) References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <87mvp4jl7o.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83bn5kjk21.fsf@gnu.org> <8br3eg85q4.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Glenn Morris > Cc: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord), 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca > Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:45:07 -0400 > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > >> Should we patch the Emacs makefiles to stop making use of $(EMACS) then? > > > > Yes. > > Why? Because it's safer, and doesn't do any harm. I agree it isn't the utmost urgency, though. From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 16:47:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.14601340138208 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 08 Apr 2016 16:47:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 16:46:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54810 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoZYb-00028F-4m for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:46:53 -0400 Received: from pruche.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.22]:38126) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoZYY-00027z-Ap; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:46:51 -0400 Received: from fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by pruche.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.7/8.14.1) with ESMTP id u38GkZcM021305; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 12:46:36 -0400 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id BE216AE324; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 12:46:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:46:35 -0400 In-Reply-To: <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 08 Apr 2016 10:00:38 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV5636=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <5636> : inlines <4656> : streams <1616116> : uri <2182476> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > We will never recover from bug reports if the behavior they want is > not the default. The problem in bug#20484 is not due to a wrong behavior in Emacs but to a wrong behavior in shells (or at the very least a bad interaction between the two), so there's no point trying to "fix it" on our side only, since that just introduces other bugs (witness bug#20202). Regarding bug#20484 as pointed out by Philip Lord we can address it without breaking bug#20484 by only reverting the behavior in ansi-term. Stefan From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 16:50:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Phillip Lord Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.14601341478429 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 08 Apr 2016 16:50:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 16:49:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54817 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoZal-0002Bn-Hq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:49:07 -0400 Received: from pruche.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.22]:38268) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoZai-0002BY-QH; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:49:05 -0400 Received: from fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by pruche.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.7/8.14.1) with ESMTP id u38Gn2Xt021422; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 12:49:02 -0400 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 475EAAE324; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 12:49:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> <87a8l5t7sf.fsf@russet.org.uk> <8360vslh20.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 12:49:02 -0400 In-Reply-To: <8360vslh20.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 08 Apr 2016 10:01:59 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV5636=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <5636> : inlines <4656> : streams <1616117> : uri <2182477> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > EMACS=t is for the old versions of Bash and other shells that look at > that. What change in behavior has been observed by removing EMACS=t from comint? As far as I can tell, nobody has reported any change of behavior yet. Bug#20484 is about another removal (the one in ansi-term), so it's actually not relevant. Stefan From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Paul Eggert Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 17:13:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier , Eli Zaretskii Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.146013554210709 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 08 Apr 2016 17:13:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 17:12:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54849 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoZxG-0002me-55 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 13:12:22 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:56098) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoZxE-0002mP-SJ; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 13:12:21 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 272AD16124C; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 10:12:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 3Hk0jq2fPP6M; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 10:12:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FEC816128D; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 10:12:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id BCvCdXO5I2vb; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 10:12:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from penguin.cs.ucla.edu (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 52AF716124C; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 10:12:13 -0700 (PDT) References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <5707E66A.1080302@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 10:12:10 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 04/08/2016 09:46 AM, Stefan Monnier wrote: > Regarding bug#20484 as pointed out by Philip Lord we can address it > without breaking bug#20484 by only reverting the behavior in ansi-term. Yes, this is the direction I'm heading as well. Thanks, Philip, for doing all the legwork on other shells. As Philip implies, Bash will need another fix before Bash 4.4 goes out, and I'm working on that now. I'll CC: here. What a mess, eh? From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: "Phillip Lord" Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 17:49:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Stefan Monnier" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.146013768914126 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 08 Apr 2016 17:49:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 17:48:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54866 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoaVs-0003fi-Km for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 13:48:08 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:36866) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoaVp-0003f6-W2; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 13:48:06 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:Cc:To:From:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID; bh=zwutknEK94Her3Luu3kfGqXCk4iwDmCIrPSGYlN54Tg=; b=r2gxR6O9Af2OrUiHe/UA1d0O3T 4KavC129L1Sk5ycZEIWH6XA9LhJ3T/1R90mDphIZByTdanCmPIOBVPtGR27hxs2YPhxXHW9AFTDeZ oh/kj15E+YdwP7fn9ZalZgw4MVfmF+33gj0CZYfmeur/hEDk4G6gppLzrBeiDuLLR6+3JzzzqUtMM I0hTjXmOlhtp4Tk0sB7V/r5b+aE0KtBt7SzyKeCbh3ySWmFHz7OhyLzvQ9O4sAsbAFS23Bun6/7xd gQMy9XVJWKUOqiWAJGZ9yZ/lovo0MQXxiyTYR/n0z4mHwkXM6QrWZGpLnJ9DbCsBAGOfjNIWfg9Ai Att9RMUw==; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=54488 helo=cloud103.planethippo.com) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1aoaVi-0033wv-V2; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 18:47:59 +0100 Received: from 77.98.219.118 ([77.98.219.118]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user phillip.lord@russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with HTTP; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 18:47:59 +0100 Message-ID: <8e2b6ff6716e9e7c77a1b6794edbfef3.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> In-Reply-To: References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 18:47:59 +0100 From: "Phillip Lord" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On Fri, April 8, 2016 5:46 pm, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> We will never recover from bug reports if the behavior they want is >> not the default. > > The problem in bug#20484 is not due to a wrong behavior in Emacs but to > a wrong behavior in shells (or at the very least a bad interaction between > the two), so there's no point trying to "fix it" on our side only, since > that just introduces other bugs (witness bug#20202). I think the problem, at heart, stems from bash trying do the right thing for Emacs. This is not made any easier by the fact that Emacs needs different things, depending on whether we are in shell or ansi-term. Really, Emacs should just explicitly request which features it needs, rather than saying "I am Emacs, now be right". > Regarding bug#20484 as pointed out by Philip Lord we can address it > without breaking bug#20484 by only reverting the behavior in ansi-term. And there is a simple workaround should we wish for consistent EMACS behaviour in shell and term, which can be applied with in .bashrc or having Emacs inject a command into the new shell. It's "Phillip" actually --- the misspelling is one of the reasons I normally go by "Phil". From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: "Phillip Lord" Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 18:13:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Stefan Monnier" Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Phillip Lord Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.146013917416647 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 08 Apr 2016 18:13:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 18:12:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54904 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoatq-0004KQ-CD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 14:12:54 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:37698) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoato-0004K9-4c; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 14:12:52 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:Cc:To:From:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID; bh=f8SJ/iVCaJbkDnyMOW1Lq12XGTWSSgICndATg9aCSPw=; b=dGvSLWgOp8UYNNpALb1core+og k5OXstOF63lmyx7QSh1hln+i45NGmzFKkmWlRq9MTZfZejvDCSR+CRSlHrqk+AZzGxLb+jeFQKayp jpy88hvgh4rlM5xLCOCWW5mfPVQ2ynaBo8q54k3sOlpOaG4lP7x0Ltq4Zm5R5Nl5itBCa3ribevqm E5iLtrP48tIc4g4hU5jigHtocy7xA2uQ/r1aIyBFeLooHV/DEtHI04WJ2xeMYFz2QtS9iipqKmawH xoWJesBBWUlVBte5BqykVByOaXYFbsmrKmmu3WVAcXxSIQ5xDZQv2agP5jyOwxOtdTKz6wO8BbTdO 87eCIPKw==; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=55322 helo=cloud103.planethippo.com) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1aoati-0038CE-1o; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 19:12:46 +0100 Received: from 77.98.219.118 ([77.98.219.118]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user phillip.lord@russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with HTTP; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 19:12:46 +0100 Message-ID: <35b450994560478a5bb6f8de5be501a9.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> In-Reply-To: References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> <87a8l5t7sf.fsf@russet.org.uk> <8360vslh20.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 19:12:46 +0100 From: "Phillip Lord" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On Fri, April 8, 2016 5:49 pm, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> EMACS=t is for the old versions of Bash and other shells that look at >> that. > > What change in behavior has been observed by removing EMACS=t from > comint? > > As far as I can tell, nobody has reported any change of behavior yet. > I worried about this -- why did line-editing not cause problems, given that it is this that EMACS=t disables. So I tested this by doing this: bind -x '"\C-r"':reset which gives a warning bash: bind: warning: line editing not enabled It turns out that M-x shell gives a warning in emacs-25 head AND emacs-25.0.91. So it appears that the bash EMACS=t handling is redundant, at least with respect to line editing. M-x shell passed --noediting through explicit-bash-args. Phil From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: "Phillip Lord" Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 18:15:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Paul Eggert" Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.146013926316833 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 08 Apr 2016 18:15:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 18:14:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54914 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoavH-0004NM-29 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 14:14:23 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:37764) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoavF-0004N4-GI; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 14:14:21 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:Cc:To:From:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID; bh=tXScpTZk/g4ds9Db9yCnBQDJRxodu0b+0FYgkk/FM3E=; b=G5zcUFJ413Kwzwf6hZ3Rhu87EF /tDI7SJy3G2YuJyksb2IgRfouzQdkl+RSQ20ICXbIGTV5VrSuen/H7Wv6kOvqjsj0AHPuD3PRB0zX U2/afi6NWbVjkLDH8VjnN/EEcdCUWbtiaDAirwlnQcXSNlAfM8cBcX50V1oG/pVvEKuAusWujGGrv xTnKyOCrILHoFggdplr4+nsBNeEXeMn5NU55jDbcUjbLvLnhHFu3AQW5TVYSZa8e5DiLYt8ZylEPZ Vx9L7ysHNFFqqWBLLqPQSKp0X7y01o4hyfnntbH4ZOtINeDLYenzRJGA5AgCvsGqfezWAlKe5oiaD A165yoUA==; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=55386 helo=cloud103.planethippo.com) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1aoav9-0038Xf-Ge; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 19:14:15 +0100 Received: from 77.98.219.118 ([77.98.219.118]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user phillip.lord@russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with HTTP; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 19:14:15 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5707E66A.1080302@cs.ucla.edu> References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <5707E66A.1080302@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 19:14:15 +0100 From: "Phillip Lord" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On Fri, April 8, 2016 6:12 pm, Paul Eggert wrote: > On 04/08/2016 09:46 AM, Stefan Monnier wrote: > >> Regarding bug#20484 as pointed out by Philip Lord we can address it >> without breaking bug#20484 by only reverting the behavior in ansi-term. > > Yes, this is the direction I'm heading as well. Thanks, Philip, for > doing all the legwork on other shells. As Philip implies, Bash will need > another fix before Bash 4.4 goes out, and I'm working on that now. I'll > CC: here. > > > What a mess, eh? A whole set of decisions which, individually, make sense all conspiring to produce a disaster. Phil From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: Bash 4.4-rc1 incompatibility with future Emacs $EMACS References: <21779.11347.198784.304481@home.barzilay.org> In-Reply-To: <21779.11347.198784.304481@home.barzilay.org> Resent-From: Paul Eggert Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 18:48:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: chet@cwru.edu, bash-testers@cwru.edu Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , Phillip Lord Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.146014126020282 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 08 Apr 2016 18:48:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 18:47:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54934 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aobRU-0005H2-EI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 14:47:40 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:34705) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aobRS-0005Gk-1c; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 14:47:38 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A170160068; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 11:47:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 0bkl6ANzREcK; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 11:47:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37D3C1601ED; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 11:47:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id XulE7s1aopCV; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 11:47:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from penguin.cs.ucla.edu (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 177CB160D71; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 11:47:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <5707FCC2.3050807@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 11:47:30 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------010400060103040103010401" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010400060103040103010401 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Configuration Information [Automatically generated, do not change]: Machine: x86_64 OS: linux-gnu Compiler: gcc Compilation CFLAGS: -DPROGRAM='bash' -DCONF_HOSTTYPE='x86_64' -DCONF_OSTYPE='linux-gnu' -DCONF_MACHTYPE='x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu' -DCONF_VENDOR='unknown' -DLOCALEDIR='/tmp/prefix/share/locale' -DPACKAGE='bash' -DSHELL -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -DDEBUG -DMALLOC_DEBUG -I. -I. -I./include -I./lib -g -O2 -Wno-parentheses -Wno-format-security uname output: Linux penguin.cs.ucla.edu 4.4.6-300.fc23.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Mar 16 22:10:37 UTC 2016 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux Machine Type: x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu Bash Version: 4.4 Patch Level: 0 Release Status: rc1 Description: Please see attached patch. Repeat-By: Please see attached patch. 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20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.146014863231638 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 08 Apr 2016 20:51:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 20:50:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54972 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aodMO-0008ED-LW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 16:50:32 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:43912) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aodMM-0008Dw-Sb; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 16:50:31 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0244F1601ED; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 13:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id ub8PJYU9EIHs; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 13:50:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08177160E3C; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 13:50:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id Nqup17SJdW3k; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 13:50:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from penguin.cs.ucla.edu (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DB6F91601ED; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 13:50:23 -0700 (PDT) References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> <87egahtcrt.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87vb3sjlh9.fsf@russet.org.uk> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <5708198F.6090005@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 13:50:23 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87vb3sjlh9.fsf@russet.org.uk> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------030802040308060903070907" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030802040308060903070907 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for persisting with this, Phillip, and for doing the legwork in seeing what other shells do. It does seem that the EMACS='t' setting can safely be removed, given what we've seen. We will still need the EMACS='25.1 (term:0.96)' setting in term-exec-1 for quite some time, for compatibility with Bash 4.3 and earlier. I installed the attached patch into emacs-25 to try to get this done for the next release. This should not affect Bug#20484, which should still be fixed. Most of Bug#20202 should be fixed now; the exceptions are M-x term and the like. --------------030802040308060903070907 Content-Type: application/x-patch; name="0001-Comint-and-compile-no-longer-set-EMACS.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-Comint-and-compile-no-longer-set-EMACS.patch" RnJvbSBjMmUyNDI4YjM1NTExMDZlNGJhMTRhMTIzNjE3NDQ5Y2JjYjVjYTVlIE1vbiBTZXAg MTcgMDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBQYXVsIEVnZ2VydCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1 PgpEYXRlOiBGcmksIDggQXByIDIwMTYgMTM6Mzk6MTcgLTA3MDAKU3ViamVjdDogW1BBVENI XSBDb21pbnQgYW5kIGNvbXBpbGUgbm8gbG9uZ2VyIHNldCBFTUFDUwpNSU1FLVZlcnNpb246 IDEuMApDb250ZW50LVR5cGU6IHRleHQvcGxhaW47IGNoYXJzZXQ9VVRGLTgKQ29udGVudC1U cmFuc2Zlci1FbmNvZGluZzogOGJpdAoKVGhpcyBtb3N0bHkgcmVzdG9yZXMgdGhlIGNoYW5n ZSB0aGF0IEkgcmV2ZXJ0ZWQgb24gTWFyY2ggMjMsCmZpeGluZyBtb3N0IG9mIEJ1ZyMyMDIw Mi4gIFRoZSBvbmx5IHBhcnQgb2YgdGhlIGNoYW5nZSB0aGF0IGlzCnN0aWxsIHJldmVydGVk IGlzIHRoZSBjaGFuZ2UgdG8gTS14IHRlcm0sIHdoZXJlIGNvbXBhdGliaWxpdHkgd2l0aApj 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help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Paul Eggert Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.14601504472124 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 08 Apr 2016 21:21:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2016 21:20:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54988 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aodpe-0000Y8-O1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 17:20:46 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:43914) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aodpc-0000Xp-Ra; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 17:20:45 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=LothGMhbboDd8wlGMQ29Rm8FzaJmM0MVBktoCyQ1RLM=; b=rCDm0nP71dRtfS9YOKnZBOswd+ WKqsZPuhxGHCt+jGSamXASmS2Ek5937A1lm/efg631VlHSC/A/3TUVVAwsZJuuRvVLzdTf0AP5Wer rgyFdF29X7XwI0rCSboyxRF+DQfU4eEhnqIbbeJbo5efoDIlgoCwnRKln3g/vsyWheV5ZnEqkBQp6 IbVoxeu+lwulZLJJR5xnsuawF+SDVNCCuao0HgRPUP3vRZ+zFW3IgQMzdXUx9WTxnSuwEq4wBy/T0 BEEIVTbrWFUAHgxd3k4FsgmVasheG8+X9327F5P6pK+xIAggLtJKhUAooS5MpA2MHtQuAngwFELX2 PF/YFVdA==; Received: from cpc1-benw10-2-0-cust373.gate.cable.virginm.net ([77.98.219.118]:34870 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1aodpV-003dEG-E4; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 22:20:37 +0100 From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <4355cfa8cbbd947770537a9006732db0.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57068A18.40207@cs.ucla.edu> <87egahtcrt.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87vb3sjlh9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5708198F.6090005@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 22:20:34 +0100 In-Reply-To: <5708198F.6090005@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Fri, 8 Apr 2016 13:50:23 -0700") Message-ID: <87a8l33ihp.fsf@russet.org.uk> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Paul Eggert writes: > Thanks for persisting with this, Phillip, and for doing the legwork in seeing > what other shells do. No worries, and apologies for being somewhat grumpy at the start. We seem to have a solution now, which is the main thing. > It does seem that the EMACS='t' setting can safely be removed, given > what we've seen. We will still need the EMACS='25.1 (term:0.96)' > setting in term-exec-1 for quite some time, for compatibility with > Bash 4.3 and earlier. I installed the attached patch into emacs-25 to > try to get this done for the next release. This should not affect > Bug#20484, which should still be fixed. Most of Bug#20202 should be > fixed now; the exceptions are M-x term and the like. I think this is a good compromise. Although, it's too late for Emacs 25.1, it would be possible to work around #20484 in other ways, and maybe get dir-tracking working for other shells also. Phil From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' In-Reply-To: <21779.11347.198784.304481@home.barzilay.org> Resent-From: Glenn Morris Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 02:26:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.146016874210952 (code B ref 20202); Sat, 09 Apr 2016 02:26:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Apr 2016 02:25:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55071 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoiak-0002qZ-M1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 22:25:42 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:36002) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aoiai-0002qG-HO for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 22:25:40 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoiac-0001BG-BT for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 22:25:35 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,RP_MATCHES_RCVD, UNRESOLVED_TEMPLATE autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:58989) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aoiZl-00014L-5I; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 22:24:41 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aoiZk-0006cp-5Q; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 22:24:40 -0400 From: Glenn Morris References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spook: Juarez Authorities Emergency response Cyber terror Stuck X-Ran: $]RJynR2R".-_otS'\j User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Waiting won't do anything. One should actively contact maintainers of >> affected packages. It's our fault, not theirs. > > We already did. Please note that the list of affected applications may include things other than shells; eg http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-pretest-bug/2006-11/msg00035.html http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-pretest-bug/2006-11/msg00084.html http://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/man?section=flags "SWI-Prolog assumes this is the case if the environment variable EMACS is t" Since it is impossible to construct the definitive list of affected applications, that is why I am personally pessimistic about being able to change this without use of Emacs SOP: change it and see what breaks. From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: "Phillip Lord" Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 08:44:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Glenn Morris" Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , phillip.lord@russet.org.uk, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.146019139819911 (code B ref 20202); Sat, 09 Apr 2016 08:44:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Apr 2016 08:43:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55141 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aooUA-0005Az-Ar for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 04:43:18 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:37460) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aooU8-0005Ah-4X; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 04:43:16 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:Cc:To:From:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID; bh=JVz76sMXTSrhlEe+GvRTMGXmyr6E6XvO0lnoBDTTCJ4=; b=OqoOnyDvD6yLbv2bHfMSiRhpPk CJWhk7nMg/JkE08duMOCXzBe/mfxKUw2qSPjpOe+z4tyzaZrnjRdqbOlGqvaIS4A5dH5mJsTw4cht odtOe++KSVGNRXUq1ZLLGSdszXk1KLICOYfkH/D+makMlMKxvVCnzdO76PQUNxxSgf9bsfM6kVeHk PgOOmX3yJsRVC2Da9hjdRANWad9K4U4v9rbx02A3EaXntM3dTRywDWKn8P9yptv/mYCgtStA3tVe6 dTVJ4SOsjMwm9vjYHtuLeR2BHu/0JMKF7yS39YtSrYoZL0dJZigYaqFr+Gbl736N4n5wTLuLMmKaI 6DIirOOg==; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=55081 helo=cloud103.planethippo.com) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1aooU1-000w3M-Oi; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 09:43:09 +0100 Received: from 77.98.219.118 ([77.98.219.118]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user phillip.lord@russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with HTTP; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 09:43:09 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 09:43:09 +0100 From: "Phillip Lord" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On Sat, April 9, 2016 3:24 am, Glenn Morris wrote: > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Please note that the list of affected applications may include things > other than shells; eg > > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-pretest-bug/2006-11/msg00035.html > > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-pretest-bug/2006-11/msg00084.html > > > http://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/man?section=flags > "SWI-Prolog assumes this is the case if the environment variable EMACS > is t" > > Since it is impossible to construct the definitive list of affected > applications, that is why I am personally pessimistic about being able to > change this without use of Emacs SOP: change it and see what breaks. So SWI-Prolog does still do this... if ( ((s = Getenv("EMACS", envbuf, sizeof(envbuf))) && s[0]) || ((s = Getenv("INFERIOR", envbuf, sizeof(envbuf))) && streq(s, "yes")) ) although, AFAICT, it just checks for EMACS=anything at all, so it's possible to workaround this in a way consistent with EMACS=location-of-emacs. I'll contact them. Phil From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 13:44:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Glenn Morris Cc: Eli Zaretskii , eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.146020943721847 (code B ref 20202); Sat, 09 Apr 2016 13:44:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Apr 2016 13:43:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55257 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aotB6-0005gC-QF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 09:43:56 -0400 Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:54186) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aotB4-0005fz-T2; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 09:43:55 -0400 Received: from fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id u39DiPjl029493; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 09:44:25 -0400 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 3D7AFAE324; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 09:43:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 09:43:42 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Fri, 08 Apr 2016 22:24:40 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.2 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 2 Rules triggered TRK_NCM1=0.2, RV5637=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <5637> : inlines <4656> : streams <1616576> : uri <2183071> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > http://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/man?section=flags > "SWI-Prolog assumes this is the case if the environment variable EMACS > is t" And here again, the page doesn't actually describe what would be the consequence of a missing EMACS=t setting. For all we know, it works just fine without it. Stefan From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: "Phillip Lord" Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 21:57:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Stefan Monnier" Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Glenn Morris , eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.14602390083373 (code B ref 20202); Sat, 09 Apr 2016 21:57:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Apr 2016 21:56:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56433 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ap0s4-0000sJ-Cj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 17:56:48 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:35107) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ap0s2-0000s4-LH; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 17:56:47 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:Cc:To:From:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID; bh=ZvMqdS/xzRvH3yrCq0+RCGkDK5NWCL6Ztfr/MdiOlHE=; b=1OInzqwvKzesC2yo769FVM60M8 BtL05mXkyz/cC/luSw2iqov1oMMmR+t9NGumUrcJyqmbbJGlu553+8Dt7x4y8HAoqq3dVY0I+fRw5 53/JfpKo1KAaDHPwiPeS4PqJSwom7sfXqaHiiXQ/BddFhFNYpNi2rn7ZiOZSjq1av/cjhqLFEA6+S iB+ZtHYytxv3uiRXsxqfntq7a6GnuwYQA2LtHiD8OUqnzyWROvjH2vu24MmafmjeXmBvK3vHh4Eih JVVcjFAaICJN/YKB5B0ZMvtgXDsiemWWQZzqN2Blbuu3ONcP/iNWZYa+Pm31EZ27swdoJeX0BfB2z f0xp2epQ==; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=52730 helo=cloud103.planethippo.com) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ap0rw-002teJ-3K; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 22:56:40 +0100 Received: from 77.98.219.118 ([77.98.219.118]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user phillip.lord@russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with HTTP; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 22:56:40 +0100 Message-ID: <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> In-Reply-To: References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 22:56:40 +0100 From: "Phillip Lord" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On Sat, April 9, 2016 2:43 pm, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> http://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/man?section=flags >> "SWI-Prolog assumes this is the case if the environment variable EMACS >> is t" > > And here again, the page doesn't actually describe what would be the > consequence of a missing EMACS=t setting. For all we know, it works just > fine without it. They've just patched SWI-Prolog to look at INSIDE_EMACS anyway. I'm guessing that anyone who wants the EMACS=t behaviour should be able to get it back by adding (setenv "EMACS" "t") to their .emacs? Phil From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Paul Eggert Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 23:41:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Phillip Lord , Stefan Monnier Cc: Glenn Morris , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.146024522913560 (code B ref 20202); Sat, 09 Apr 2016 23:41:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Apr 2016 23:40:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56442 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ap2UP-0003Wd-JG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 19:40:29 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:40889) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ap2UN-0003WJ-Co; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 19:40:27 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C253161245; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 16:40:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id z3_08tP_b9xH; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 16:40:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDF1F16124A; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 16:40:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id ytBSnQSsZELW; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 16:40:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [100.32.155.148]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 94E53161245; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 16:40:20 -0700 (PDT) References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <570992E3.4070109@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 16:40:19 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Phillip Lord wrote: > They've just patched SWI-Prolog to look at INSIDE_EMACS anyway. Amusingly enough, the SWI-Prolog implementation (both unpatched and patched) disagrees with its documentation, which says SWI-Prolog assumes it is running under Emacs "if the environment variable EMACS is 't' and INFERIOR is 'yes'." Note the restriction to 't' in the documentation (which the code does not enforce). Note also the "and" in the documentation (the code uses "||"). It sounds like this stuff isn't exercised much.... > I'm guessing that anyone who wants the EMACS=t behaviour should be able to > get it back by adding (setenv "EMACS" "t") to their .emacs? Yes, that works. Or in practice for SWI-Prolog (setenv "INFERIOR" "yes") should also do the trick. From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 00:10:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Paul Eggert Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Glenn Morris , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Phillip Lord Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.146024694216138 (code B ref 20202); Sun, 10 Apr 2016 00:10:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Apr 2016 00:09:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56451 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ap2w2-0004C9-Bt for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 20:09:02 -0400 Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:56991) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ap2vz-0004Bf-Sa; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 20:09:00 -0400 Received: from fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id u3A09b23028984; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 20:09:37 -0400 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 5D2D3AE67F; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 20:08:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <570992E3.4070109@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 20:08:54 -0400 In-Reply-To: <570992E3.4070109@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Sat, 9 Apr 2016 16:40:19 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.2 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 2 Rules triggered GEN_SPAM_FEATRE=0.2, RV5637=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <5637> : inlines <4656> : streams <1616812> : uri <2183409> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > Yes, that works. Or in practice for SWI-Prolog (setenv "INFERIOR" "yes") > should also do the trick. "Do the trick" to get what, exactly? Stefan From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Paul Eggert Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 03:31:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Glenn Morris , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Phillip Lord Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.14602590587979 (code B ref 20202); Sun, 10 Apr 2016 03:31:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Apr 2016 03:30:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56483 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ap65S-00024c-1i for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 23:30:58 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:47270) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ap65R-00024N-9F; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 23:30:57 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0274161245; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 20:30:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id pYV-EWmBA3tO; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 20:30:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E24E716124A; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 20:30:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id 6xH4KOCkFTy7; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 20:30:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [100.32.155.148]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B8125161245; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 20:30:50 -0700 (PDT) References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <570992E3.4070109@cs.ucla.edu> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <5709C8EA.6060502@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 20:30:50 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------040904030408070902080907" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040904030408070902080907 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stefan Monnier wrote: > "Do the trick" to get what, exactly? It causes the predicate 'current_prolog_flag(emacs_inferior_process, X)' to succeed with X=true, and it causes SWI-Prolog to not attempt to put the terminal into raw mode. Although the former doesn't seem to do much of anything, latter affects the UI, notably the debugger. For example, SWI-Prolog 7.2.3 in Emacs 24 under M-x run-prolog: ?- trace, member(X, [a,b,c]). Call: (8) lists:member(_G2, [a, b, c]) ? a % Execution Aborted ?- The same interaction in emacs-25 now: 1 ?- trace, member(X, [a,b,c]). Call: (8) lists:member(_G2, [a, b, c]) ? a abort % Execution Aborted 2 ?- I suppose the differences might be annoying to someone who does a lot of Prolog debugging. To give some perspective, although I am annoyed whenever I have to debug GNU Prolog under Emacs due to gprolog's mishandling of tty modes under Emacs, this is something I've never gotten sufficiently annoyed at to fix, even though it's been ten years since I first ran afoul of it. One possible workaround would be something like the attached patch, which relies on SWI-Prolog's behavior of assuming GNU Emacs when INFERIOR=yes in the environment. --------------040904030408070902080907 Content-Type: text/x-diff; name="prolog.diff" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="prolog.diff" diff --git a/lisp/progmodes/prolog.el b/lisp/progmodes/prolog.el index 9ee405b..fffa7cc 100644 --- a/lisp/progmodes/prolog.el +++ b/lisp/progmodes/prolog.el @@ -1374,8 +1374,10 @@ prolog-ensure-process () (with-current-buffer (get-buffer-create "*prolog*") (prolog-inferior-mode) - (apply 'make-comint-in-buffer "prolog" (current-buffer) - (prolog-program-name) nil (prolog-program-switches)) + (let ((process-environment + (cons "INFERIOR=yes" process-environment))) + (apply 'make-comint-in-buffer "prolog" (current-buffer) + (prolog-program-name) nil (prolog-program-switches))) (unless prolog-system ;; Setup auto-detection. (setq-local --------------040904030408070902080907-- From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Michael Albinus Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 07:15:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Phillip Lord" Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, Stefan Monnier , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.146027246928952 (code B ref 20202); Sun, 10 Apr 2016 07:15:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Apr 2016 07:14:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56514 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ap9Zl-0007Wn-4A for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 03:14:29 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.20]:52365) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ap9Zi-0007WV-Ox; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 03:14:27 -0400 Received: from detlef.gmx.de ([87.146.53.247]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx103) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MfEsY-1b9PSu2ZOE-00OpHc; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:13:26 +0200 From: Michael Albinus References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:13:22 +0200 In-Reply-To: <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> (Phillip Lord's message of "Sat, 9 Apr 2016 22:56:40 +0100") Message-ID: <87d1pykkbx.fsf@gmx.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:6zn1vqNalzVViyUGWOxbJpwQIjtYNMy4xxhXwWCSxdUdWGB3ZMI pbrp/m75MjVP1buV4wlEzVFFTi6Z4kKfcQiibEB7rjTRhCu6IDz3fqnBcPfVquOJqNMsuIo EL/4/uoSYrzSEcZxBvv0cOFiQmBHsEfaRuQdFdbm/qL2zyF0QQ6d3ME+scGvQ21VvnFw1yN O7S16jOU8EwJYBj/JLiwQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:t9mFIQzw+iA=:1Zq66yHEH2jzCsz2dHxsJs cOdV9NnaNiX3ao3I92nfvkNT2xla2KwHFt9Vf95thSETiq63Ii0KiJme0HwHc4kuThgekB3k3 90mBDZdFsLGUOs9v4XRigreSe0OIWO8m53+d9xHeTkdGw1KCFhHGIyA7V6Qk8HXCLiEAhP9ei LpUtn/xAGNDlkmbS+V0E1025IJDk7zBUl2R0oJKJ1ybGkLBEtndeyt0Ki3Z68j3U5i24Bb1cw j8Z/+BAzA3mJcuSlji7u2taNoUQJ5s6UpogGjvsysz4sdskAT+iD8fYmIC1Axh2dQGKropdrW p3/iCrpXfdkwlzq6hBrTyxYGfVRinmMs/QJuf0kr8zM2CLt7lQ4IW3vUVHJ3gm7dsBu4Jy5Zx ZSToayw2M9yAJIE01UsoByBtbZGNwfytySayiWI/ccpRG4VDFpkkGRQck4jzgnptYhvlFQmOR aBBxwbrdwhSTvC1IE0V7KPiH7/YXud+k99MTUFLKLyHZR8taWdJJnvdXEVtlki+DcZSjSbWNv siv4cRMH5l5nrFnHgcClZTLwSxxbHuIaB9SBDlcJeHIg5T3kJSS4cci8092Jz2CpqryJuoqa8 ChYqBeA+1UaUfh7SXPs2k0oHpQO1DDpGG6mSFq9e01WrlY4qoRtP9okfyHWBU4VVR5uK+oIoA gac0uAHOSi04g9Vf2wbJiFbi0TSik/vLlz6P2isI8gNGNQqLbw9JDE6ZYzeH4Tcl4DqleiD1C VjLOKJY8dJLacX8Wl5DKaOR/vpdS38pt1+9ufKrI33W0WeBw4ghc8H3x0Ws4ZwBVB9N6TLIpT 4tLDUmG X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) "Phillip Lord" writes: > I'm guessing that anyone who wants the EMACS=t behaviour should be able to > get it back by adding (setenv "EMACS" "t") to their .emacs? Not for remote processes. > Phil Best regards, Michael. From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: "Phillip Lord" Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 08:26:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Paul Eggert" Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , Phillip Lord Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.14602767513506 (code B ref 20202); Sun, 10 Apr 2016 08:26:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Apr 2016 08:25:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56558 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apAgo-0000uT-Vs for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 04:25:51 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:54572) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apAgm-0000uC-Ka; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 04:25:49 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:Cc:To:From:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID; bh=fU+xKrq4VtHMGmEgjtfcA3K5pgtyJ/yZj4iPa2FvkSw=; b=Vk+G3HJsBvZZgDK4ONrbzeT4UR h3QtNpLQwn2ijtYu5sMMELWuWZkapeHpYwzIcvWQ+RzsIy6kroVDljZ5IFV1Ge4WWn06PUPKQwaAi /i4uyx9QHpMTpcM772Vyihhy9PYDF+4xBzvJ8dfH4vc9v+933BvCRmi5x54OMDOTjjZFXnHJCGslA I0Gry932VfPFbl+tbjFM4Sd/hY/y1p4F5TMbbd5oCr5USHlg1nYfE1SdBYd0002hCUHD5bdjthMlW RCF4oeTwYZbT3IvWBWEzouk3ywKQbMtbG32MEuqGorzaiHF7RxCxZz9qn5T4RnjWVfwPsAq2iRdCr 2uodhqcQ==; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=43963 helo=cloud103.planethippo.com) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1apAgg-004LjI-9l; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:25:42 +0100 Received: from 77.98.219.118 ([77.98.219.118]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user phillip.lord@russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with HTTP; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:25:42 +0100 Message-ID: <8346a9b64e23b8a8fbcfcf10274e2ba2.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> In-Reply-To: <570992E3.4070109@cs.ucla.edu> References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <570992E3.4070109@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:25:42 +0100 From: "Phillip Lord" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On Sun, April 10, 2016 12:40 am, Paul Eggert wrote: > Phillip Lord wrote: > >> They've just patched SWI-Prolog to look at INSIDE_EMACS anyway. >> > > Amusingly enough, the SWI-Prolog implementation (both unpatched and > patched) disagrees with its documentation, which says SWI-Prolog assumes > it is running under Emacs "if the environment variable EMACS is 't' and > INFERIOR is 'yes'." > > > Note the restriction to 't' in the documentation (which the code does not > enforce). Note also the "and" in the documentation (the code uses "||"). Yes, I noticed that as well. I couldn't patch the documentation because I couldn't find the source. > It sounds like this stuff isn't exercised much.... I wouldn't conclude that; more likely, it just works so no one has looked. The situation with bash is the same -- Emacs requests --noediting, but bash detects Emacs and enforces noediting anyway. Phil > >> I'm guessing that anyone who wants the EMACS=t behaviour should be able >> to get it back by adding (setenv "EMACS" "t") to their .emacs? > > Yes, that works. Or in practice for SWI-Prolog (setenv "INFERIOR" "yes") > should also do the trick. > > > > From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: "Phillip Lord" Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 08:27:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Stefan Monnier" Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Paul Eggert , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Phillip Lord Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.14602768103641 (code B ref 20202); Sun, 10 Apr 2016 08:27:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Apr 2016 08:26:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56568 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apAhl-0000wb-Mz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 04:26:49 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:54617) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apAhk-0000wJ-Cb; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 04:26:48 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:Cc:To:From:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID; bh=8TlFQZn+rBN/EWeDnw+FroEgaBUDpN9kdaf9pVejhAk=; b=ni8Db9MwIyX2vTydqyw2OPEiQQ BqZ6UCN1bXPavq+WxOv7150qYjRwm8cfEJ2saUK2XtmLY3M5QwaqKT0B93RC7W++pvvhEhDq/pqDy INrnHU5mgWguHqJ6qO57UBm7hI/UOVfmrDNxBFOqNiZd+j1M039u9jSOEaATt+qpRdY6dQpcVpg7L 0Yud9UaBCzHRKlZfbmexYCwaDj10zwHJB7wIr7oGc3b6388p1MZc944vTaQj/WtqCtcXJWLCsthub 7+HQ6njOyQQd04sX+sDQQZh2EnlFy6Fttc15xirihoqMTuYr9/wzjTo18aqYMSk6mlb69DQ2CjpkR COfYEBLQ==; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=44008 helo=cloud103.planethippo.com) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1apAhe-004LrE-9T; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:26:42 +0100 Received: from 77.98.219.118 ([77.98.219.118]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user phillip.lord@russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with HTTP; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:26:42 +0100 Message-ID: <0988bc8ff08f43e468bbd48fe3bc45f7.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> In-Reply-To: References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <570992E3.4070109@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:26:42 +0100 From: "Phillip Lord" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On Sun, April 10, 2016 1:08 am, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> Yes, that works. Or in practice for SWI-Prolog (setenv "INFERIOR" >> "yes") >> should also do the trick. > > "Do the trick" to get what, exactly? Didn't look at the code deeply, but to switch off line editing. Phil From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: "Phillip Lord" Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 08:52:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Michael Albinus" Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.14602783105962 (code B ref 20202); Sun, 10 Apr 2016 08:52:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Apr 2016 08:51:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56587 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apB5y-0001Y0-JZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 04:51:50 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:55328) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apB5v-0001Xi-TU; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 04:51:48 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:Cc:To:From:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID; bh=0CzeO/5GPDg5gyERFxsub+Dk7uIn7jDgxsMSmDREE00=; b=TLVV7lX4TA4yaXB9oXhoB0qdJo QxofDnQlHF6f2bqWTDwf8BIWCNReB9FD2VtiKWvHivmm+DLwZqGLkFPe3NNjvFMZW/mBUVF9MKlxx m89HAV9rW8c2sd4e6M7RUkcfJeZcwlbFo8Hu6rnx3TyeGk73QUb/N4H0T6mjfJvFk5mwkIvR3sc4V JlmUVnV/yhkQ+VpOyzHM7Y3yl42j34clXXe7kBNy9g/wduEl7JLlSBQWAzdhqD/GCsexEdY1rVNuU VI+7EWIeQDwlIaN1TBadIU6O9DBsfFGEom5mZh9RyqdfwJRdE17fXdFxQxSzBBx3+butP0+GxDAZo jSNdQzgQ==; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=44718 helo=cloud103.planethippo.com) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1apB5p-0000n1-CZ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:51:41 +0100 Received: from 77.98.219.118 ([77.98.219.118]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user phillip.lord@russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with HTTP; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:51:41 +0100 Message-ID: <98c1d9e2cf46ace81a4ec0c1c9fc0758.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> In-Reply-To: <87d1pykkbx.fsf@gmx.de> References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <87d1pykkbx.fsf@gmx.de> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:51:41 +0100 From: "Phillip Lord" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On Sun, April 10, 2016 8:13 am, Michael Albinus wrote: > "Phillip Lord" writes: > > >> I'm guessing that anyone who wants the EMACS=t behaviour should be able >> to get it back by adding (setenv "EMACS" "t") to their .emacs? > > Not for remote processes. Didn't think of that. Can tramp be hooked to add this back, if needed? From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Michael Albinus Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:33:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Phillip Lord" Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.14602807549816 (code B ref 20202); Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:33:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Apr 2016 09:32:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56599 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apBjO-0002YB-CR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 05:32:34 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.21]:49293) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apBjM-0002Xq-6U; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 05:32:32 -0400 Received: from detlef.gmx.de ([87.146.53.247]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx102) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0McPvw-1b6r5g1e2i-00HgY6; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 11:31:32 +0200 From: Michael Albinus References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <87d1pykkbx.fsf@gmx.de> <98c1d9e2cf46ace81a4ec0c1c9fc0758.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 11:31:27 +0200 In-Reply-To: <98c1d9e2cf46ace81a4ec0c1c9fc0758.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> (Phillip Lord's message of "Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:51:41 +0100") Message-ID: <87inzpkdxs.fsf@gmx.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:ZWWj+F76Tm/ufPIcsfvBjMzgVpKRuG4rZE1poGlvZ9MGIAOhB6I Epdvz7x/wimmBLHzgFvpo4csiCy5AqW+X/dPhPSgZzJvrHuBWGBrtmlX5B9jIB6BBfitXF6 waBv13NO4N/0FUG5GdK0HJnPwnpRZignrvj++ZjbyvFW5lWUWVp3KZQ1HIoVeOS/lPoTsL9 Xef8Dtuf6oJ+OWHwbtYpA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:ZwW+R/xTY/Y=:EQqrC29Mk+WlfukTYaHHdd W9lDtwtkXP8xRBgXspQP5urcVr4rZ66H11lzHgA5jYGRjeLwfZsmq/kUuk95z9DYOItCYPPDe q840c8P/lfnAdCiJiugGZ1gcWN42G5I6P9FSeos5emtWj4P3xVmwIbUFfht/vbWvVwbHpPtrt cxprea5nlC59dnzpdLFaFVH5J4+Yu67Qfw0opHFvEbS5r0yLe9+mCrHPk+5jSTyonBwhhdRea gvCbxz2hrNX/q5soUE+b8sdazF6QB+p7qWH786CAJQY0Ra3R49ALhiiTMKzBHucYtGuTYpGdp sEaEkXZL4QaqldNQPhah97N6sm3mRGoCFwT+N58CenASvhtL0nJvS6P7tF+DQS4xy/yUeg8h0 EeK9dgSpMD5CEhb13Dmf5WO1SiXY5RONgmkXoiQOa9HQrSEeGG/lemwPOMCVY3FYisQ1O3Xfz BHgB4J2leRbeo3mcmWg9PXxoIGK0fnribS/y73ytiu6SdiKv/b2iWDKwUgkT/F2gZ5/lZDSNg sneNIJ6zKh0JGtKit1vPyaLXXDeIkKpmpdkeFae/z9KDbcJD+qrEtTr4RMv/cUgBtDLCsIpHB rE3Kv+yKcXeikF5aAmj4dK3tAQHhXbZCK49lU1nq00XiK5PRpWwPBUoE5GgDn31LhciyFTkVU gEhiwr58iKjfvsexVmrxWFW1QxYxgY/Y4G83bfpVGx4/v2t9IQPtLAL37JRGfQAQeZtCh4yiB tzu7StECWiyHR65vxcQ6L+xaOaGUCSblOst6DjksPnKGo17kudjRHQkGVQsDGKbM5k3N4Iqrj byf/9jL X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) "Phillip Lord" writes: >>> I'm guessing that anyone who wants the EMACS=t behaviour should be able >>> to get it back by adding (setenv "EMACS" "t") to their .emacs? >> >> Not for remote processes. > > Didn't think of that. Can tramp be hooked to add this back, if needed? One could add it to tramp-remote-process-environment. Best regards, Michael. From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' In-Reply-To: <21779.11347.198784.304481@home.barzilay.org> Resent-From: Markus Triska Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 12:19:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.146029072231107 (code B ref -1); Sun, 10 Apr 2016 12:19:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Apr 2016 12:18:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56660 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apEKA-00085f-4c for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 08:18:42 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:53855) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apEK8-00085Q-NQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 08:18:41 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1apEK2-00054T-Qv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 08:18:35 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:44483) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1apEK2-00054P-O4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 08:18:34 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:44821) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1apEK1-0006L9-Sq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 08:18:34 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1apEJy-00053Z-NV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 08:18:33 -0400 Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:53622) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1apEJy-00053R-Gn for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 08:18:30 -0400 Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1apEJt-00028d-Ko for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 14:18:25 +0200 Received: from 77.119.130.227.wireless.dyn.drei.com ([77.119.130.227]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 14:18:25 +0200 Received: from triska by 77.119.130.227.wireless.dyn.drei.com with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 14:18:25 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ From: Markus Triska Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 14:18:18 +0200 Organization: man Lines: 9 Message-ID: References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <570992E3.4070109@cs.ucla.edu> <8346a9b64e23b8a8fbcfcf10274e2ba2.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 77.119.130.227.wireless.dyn.drei.com Cancel-Lock: sha1:BciG6W+J/2hCsLxB6QLHqEI48Zo= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.1 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.1 (----) "Phillip Lord" writes: > Yes, I noticed that as well. I couldn't patch the documentation because I > couldn't find the source. The source of the SWI documentation is in the "man" directory, see overview.doc. Please file pull requests for swipl-devel (not swipl). Thank you for looking into this! From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 13:58:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Paul Eggert Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Glenn Morris , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Phillip Lord Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.14602966688151 (code B ref 20202); Sun, 10 Apr 2016 13:58:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Apr 2016 13:57:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57339 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apFs4-00027O-4g for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:57:48 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:28780) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apFs2-000276-0E; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:57:46 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0CVDQA731xV/ytyoWxcDoMChALBFYdLBAICgTw6EwEBAQEBAQGBCkEFg10BAQMBViMFCws0EhQYDSSINwjPIwEBAQcBAQEBHos6hQUHhC0BBIZfhgCDVaMLgUUjgjt/WiKCeAEBAQ X-IPAS-Result: A0CVDQA731xV/ytyoWxcDoMChALBFYdLBAICgTw6EwEBAQEBAQGBCkEFg10BAQMBViMFCws0EhQYDSSINwjPIwEBAQcBAQEBHos6hQUHhC0BBIZfhgCDVaMLgUUjgjt/WiKCeAEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,465,1427774400"; d="scan'208";a="205767120" Received: from 108-161-114-43.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO fmsmemgm.homelinux.net) ([108.161.114.43]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 10 Apr 2016 09:57:40 -0400 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id D9D30AE67F; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:57:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <570992E3.4070109@cs.ucla.edu> <5709C8EA.6060502@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:57:39 -0400 In-Reply-To: <5709C8EA.6060502@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Sat, 9 Apr 2016 20:30:50 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) > ?- trace, member(X, [a,b,c]). > Call: (8) lists:member(_G2, [a, b, c]) ? a > % Execution Aborted > ?- > > The same interaction in emacs-25 now: > > 1 ?- trace, member(X, [a,b,c]). > Call: (8) lists:member(_G2, [a, b, c]) ? a > abort > % Execution Aborted > 2 ?- Hmm.. what are those "abort" and "2" in the output? When running swipl inside a terminal I don't see these, so why do we see them in M-x run-prolog? > I suppose the differences might be annoying to someone who does a lot of > Prolog debugging. Indeed. > I have to debug GNU Prolog under Emacs due to gprolog's mishandling of tty > modes under Emacs, this is something I've never gotten sufficiently annoyed > at to fix, even though it's been ten years since I first ran afoul of it. FWIW, the current prolog.el has some tweaks for GNU Prolog which might be relevant. So you might like to try again and see if the problem is still present. If not, report it as a bug (and put me in X-Debbugs-Cc). Stefan From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 14:00:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Phillip Lord" Cc: Paul Eggert , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.14602967588314 (code B ref 20202); Sun, 10 Apr 2016 14:00:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Apr 2016 13:59:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57346 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apFtV-0002A0-Lh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:59:17 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:14700) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apFtU-00029j-4H; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:59:16 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0AIIwA731xV/ytyoWxcgxCEAsEVh0sEAgKBPDsSAQEBAQEBAYEKQQECAoNdAQEDAVYjBQsLNAcLFBgNJIg3CM8jAQEBAQYBAQEBAR2LOoUFB4QtAQSzP4FFI4I7gVkigngBAQE X-IPAS-Result: A0AIIwA731xV/ytyoWxcgxCEAsEVh0sEAgKBPDsSAQEBAQEBAYEKQQECAoNdAQEDAVYjBQsLNAcLFBgNJIg3CM8jAQEBAQYBAQEBAR2LOoUFB4QtAQSzP4FFI4I7gVkigngBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,465,1427774400"; d="scan'208";a="205767168" Received: from 108-161-114-43.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO fmsmemgm.homelinux.net) ([108.161.114.43]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 10 Apr 2016 09:59:10 -0400 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 4F463AE67F; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:59:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <570992E3.4070109@cs.ucla.edu> <0988bc8ff08f43e468bbd48fe3bc45f7.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:59:10 -0400 In-Reply-To: <0988bc8ff08f43e468bbd48fe3bc45f7.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> (Phillip Lord's message of "Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:26:42 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) > Didn't look at the code deeply, but to switch off line editing. That still doesn't say what changes, concretely. Stefan From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: Paul Eggert Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 05:51:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Glenn Morris , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Phillip Lord Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.146035381632277 (code B ref 20202); Mon, 11 Apr 2016 05:51:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Apr 2016 05:50:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57874 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apUjo-0008OW-Jx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 01:50:16 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:36572) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apUjn-0008OH-1Y; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 01:50:15 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B9A6160FF2; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 22:50:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id w8kWv6ndIDd4; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 22:50:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C525D161257; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 22:50:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id 8PFEZ7c0fPWk; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 22:50:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [100.32.155.148]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9C5D3160FF2; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 22:50:08 -0700 (PDT) References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <570992E3.4070109@cs.ucla.edu> <5709C8EA.6060502@cs.ucla.edu> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <570B3B10.3060509@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 22:50:08 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Monnier wrote: > Hmm.. what are those "abort" and "2" in the output? > > When running swipl inside a terminal I don't see these, so why do we see > them in M-x run-prolog? I'm afraid I don't know, and don't have the patience to find out. The SWI-Prolog source code is not immediately obvious, and it doesn't appear to agree with its documentation. Rather than fool around with it I simply installed the INFERIOR=yes workaround into emacs-25/lisp/progmodes/prolog.el. > FWIW, the current prolog.el has some tweaks for GNU Prolog which might > be relevant. So you might like to try again and see if the problem is > still present. If not, report it as a bug (and put me in X-Debbugs-Cc). Thanks. Until yesterday I didn't know about M-x run-prolog. I just ran gprolog in a M-x shell window, which doesn't work well. I'll try to remember to use M-x run-prolog from now on. From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 12:33:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: Paul Eggert , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.146037796117554 (code B ref 20202); Mon, 11 Apr 2016 12:33:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Apr 2016 12:32:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58123 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apb1E-0004Yz-Mt for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 08:32:40 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:55861) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apb1C-0004Yd-G4; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 08:32:39 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=QtNkFTFBq3svL64AjPn20SgsmJEmjtIgeiS2FuRgcnA=; b=YHd8CxEPFvTkB5TVsl7Q95h/VV d/+E0lXl3b6jKdQ0/pkN8V3A8xPMlboKmlI9Rp/0pAAVTZh6H2XI/6mhKrfFWBY7MJ1sSpV7dzAKr RurJJ1iR6UuPUJBKZFLmH51RmJZNXyiDTJot/anPitixbFktjSKCj/ZBKMOK9rpFtwRhDWMW4M6Ex b8M0/EF0KjcWT/PMRYp8wTRfKt+nF4jCLTgSgZCvF4rTmDuHSLdmpVUe7TWGhmzJ20rJkFz8R1ibj xUpuxy8ap8IBYUSPtT6vTKy48QyafMzXtWRlX0yuSUDULWO3WnrQI1TAEcINzR1MHI0Fu9/1ijbUb +tMZMh1g==; Received: from cpc1-benw10-2-0-cust373.gate.cable.virginm.net ([77.98.219.118]:50723 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1apb10-0042MZ-32; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 13:32:26 +0100 From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <570992E3.4070109@cs.ucla.edu> <0988bc8ff08f43e468bbd48fe3bc45f7.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 13:32:25 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:59:10 -0400") Message-ID: <871t6c72cm.fsf@russet.org.uk> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Stefan Monnier writes: >> Didn't look at the code deeply, but to switch off line editing. > > That still doesn't say what changes, concretely. Well, what ever it doesn't do without EMACS=t, it will now, since it's all been patched. I think I can stop worrying about it. Phil From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Resent-From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 12:39:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Markus Triska Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.146037831518068 (code B ref 20202); Mon, 11 Apr 2016 12:39:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Apr 2016 12:38:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58129 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apb6x-0004hM-Cs for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 08:38:35 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:56059) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1apb6w-0004hA-Aw for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 08:38:34 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=Y00oGTvcCVAQgprVkHtiTaE7hQ0rKtP7psdZjGverYQ=; b=IBbmbh6ALQBNRFZgD0Qx8D/C1h BwlGCnzv2FqRr+ZtcZYSQWaTZtpQR5z2bCyw7Zg7uogdaQENuZS0k7flNqRUUsAuCuqZ4EFgLMBWv um3no/KZC0cBudFLRCzPFLSr1KjC90G1efq6iVWChP8kcwhv3YGsfIF3ln6HdtsRw1X/Dy94ZITjH Y0/fk2aJopmveMmktaIPMzErznhzvvI6SLiXKt8VuBpgPIWxavbg6g8av6uat2S52LedhhhpisKKC f1vrNFr39ytveIO0KfgytaNjfjR+CbbIBY0QN5u/4LkTvFowkxXWO1jKCshwZgYNG6JkmJMLpdkt1 hjKCcATw==; Received: from cpc1-benw10-2-0-cust373.gate.cable.virginm.net ([77.98.219.118]:50878 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1apb6q-0043Ml-JD; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 13:38:28 +0100 From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fg8lh49.fsf@gnu.org> <8360vsjdlc.fsf@gnu.org> <05e4d286de69c0d9858381f8af72835d.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <570992E3.4070109@cs.ucla.edu> <8346a9b64e23b8a8fbcfcf10274e2ba2.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 13:38:27 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Markus Triska's message of "Sun, 10 Apr 2016 14:18:18 +0200") Message-ID: <87wpo45ni4.fsf@russet.org.uk> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Markus Triska writes: > "Phillip Lord" writes: > >> Yes, I noticed that as well. I couldn't patch the documentation because I >> couldn't find the source. > > The source of the SWI documentation is in the "man" directory, see > overview.doc. Please file pull requests for swipl-devel (not swipl). I sent the PR here, and it's been merged. https://github.com/SWI-Prolog/swipl/pull/6 Are you saying that this is wrong? Phil From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness References: <21779.11347.198784.304481@home.barzilay.org> In-Reply-To: <21779.11347.198784.304481@home.barzilay.org> Resent-From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 20:48:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Emacs-Devel devel Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Paul Eggert , Stefan Monnier , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.15271948375101 (code B ref 20202); Thu, 24 May 2018 20:48:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 May 2018 20:47:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46919 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fLx8m-0001K8-QG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 24 May 2018 16:47:17 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([78.129.138.110]:37068) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fLx8k-0001Jp-GG; Thu, 24 May 2018 16:47:15 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date: Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=+JQRp37vdhRyDqe/T7b1Iu3xc0tFOHWiP6CKS9wYxoo=; b=0SY1+dXhDPN2XI3365sw4RoLCF ur9kvWQKpUN6NDIjbavobdQ8QmpsfEOPMRtsMBNs/0wKWMY4uQKCr9cpOmqtaNw+20PXxg5tEsgaD /eSDhNZFoySFuvvVxj0dmE8/QJzOf1Xv2VtF3hD2Ilqjt9BuVqaIAI/Qru1Gip8p9Di2BqB0IAJ7T As1QXGkbEXc9yCVhDuokNOp0XsJsrrT9bwnZBaa5JQ+p5iX9EOJS+LuzZFOgBNHciOUY+h36/ga8o O8e5Msa5uBjNYJUtGbbGWuY/FKy/gcLlM7Dd1Zcsk/jwSeECNeI/qcamtKpiB8/D57BMlJLzvGE2k ekASla1g==; Received: from cpc142652-benw12-2-0-cust953.16-2.cable.virginm.net ([82.21.43.186]:43006 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1fLx8d-0006K7-Af; Thu, 24 May 2018 20:47:07 +0000 From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 21:46:59 +0100 Message-ID: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Well, it hardly seems like Mon, 11 Apr 2016 since last we discussed this issue. If you remember, we managed to blitz, EMACS=t everywhere, then Paul restored it in term.el because it broke bash otherwise. master currently looks like this: ;; This is for backwards compatibility with Bash 4.3 and earlier. ;; Remove this hack once Bash 4.4-or-later is common, because ;; it breaks './configure' of some packages that expect it to ;; say where to find EMACS. (format "EMACS=%s (term:%s)" emacs-version term-protocol-version) I worry that "Bash 4.4 or later is common" is rather indeterminate; my desktop is now 4.4.19. but another machine I am using has bash 4.2.46. Given that Emacs-26 is now destined to come out with EMACS=26.1.0, I would like to propose that we now remove this on master, i.e. make it happen for Emacs-27 which should be in about 2020. Phil From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 20:54:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Paul Eggert , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Emacs-Devel devel Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.15271951925606 (code B ref 20202); Thu, 24 May 2018 20:54:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 May 2018 20:53:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46926 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fLxEV-0001SH-OC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 24 May 2018 16:53:11 -0400 Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:38687) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fLxET-0001S3-5N; Thu, 24 May 2018 16:53:10 -0400 Received: from pastel.home (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.7/8.14.1) with ESMTP id w4OKrIRw001163; Thu, 24 May 2018 16:53:18 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id B2AE768311; Thu, 24 May 2018 16:52:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 16:52:57 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> (Phillip Lord's message of "Thu, 24 May 2018 21:46:59 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 2 Rules triggered EDT_SA_DN_PASS=0, RV6293=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <6293> : inlines <6657> : streams <1787695> : uri <2646659> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > I worry that "Bash 4.4 or later is common" is rather indeterminate; my At least Debian's stable (stretch) is on bash-4.4 (but still at 4.3 in oldstable (jessie)). > desktop is now 4.4.19. but another machine I am using has bash > 4.2.46. Given that Emacs-26 is now destined to come out with > EMACS=26.1.0, I would like to propose that we now remove this on master, > i.e. make it happen for Emacs-27 which should be in about 2020. Sounds good to me: by the time Emacs-27 comes out, Debian's oldstable will be stretch (hence at 4.4). Stefan From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness Resent-From: Paul Eggert Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 22:05:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Phillip Lord , Emacs-Devel devel Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.152719944827036 (code B ref 20202); Thu, 24 May 2018 22:05:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 May 2018 22:04:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47003 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fLyLA-00071z-0t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 24 May 2018 18:04:08 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:39426) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fLyL8-00071S-BH; Thu, 24 May 2018 18:04:06 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73D87160612; Thu, 24 May 2018 15:04:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id jtoMb23KVRT1; Thu, 24 May 2018 15:03:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8C10160613; Thu, 24 May 2018 15:03:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id Il4TFJTEh9dR; Thu, 24 May 2018 15:03:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9A779160612; Thu, 24 May 2018 15:03:59 -0700 (PDT) References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <6443412a-5803-d9c0-1ef3-ece7f49c43e1@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 15:03:56 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Bash 4.4 came out only in September 2016, and it's too soon to assume it. For example, my students regularly use Emacs on a server running RHEL 7, which ships Bash 4.2.46, and as I understand it, this is the most recent RHEL available. How about this idea: At Emacs build time, we check whether Bash is 4.4 or later, and if so we use a term.el that assumes bash 4.4 or later. Otherwise, we use a term.el that interrogates the shell dynamically for whether it is shell and if so what its version number is, the first time that Emacs runs a process under a shell. From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness Resent-From: Van L Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 02:26:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Paul Eggert Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Emacs-Devel devel , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , Phillip Lord Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.152721514532351 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 25 May 2018 02:26:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2018 02:25:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47162 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM2QL-0008Pi-FC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 24 May 2018 22:25:45 -0400 Received: from relay12.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.178.232]:47921) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM2QK-0008PX-8Q; Thu, 24 May 2018 22:25:44 -0400 Received: from epi.local (123-243-244-176.tpgi.com.au [123.243.244.176]) (Authenticated sender: van@scratch.space) by relay12.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 168E7200011; Fri, 25 May 2018 04:25:39 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Van L In-Reply-To: <6443412a-5803-d9c0-1ef3-ece7f49c43e1@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 12:25:35 +1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <6443412a-5803-d9c0-1ef3-ece7f49c43e1@cs.ucla.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) > Paul Eggert writes: >=20 > this is the most recent RHEL available You could have your sclerotic institution=E2=80=99s IT manager provide = Enterprise RHEL for students studying topics as old as the hills and = mountains (and they won=E2=80=99t change) and request them to =E2=80=9Cthi= nk" about the latest unstable Fedora or Debian or Ubuntu releases for = research oriented experimental AI & CS =E2=80=9Cwork=E2=80=9D which are = hot career topics and ought not to be held back by bureaucratically = convenient RHEL IT hell. Ask them for what Tesla or Uber or Facebook or = Google use to keep up with =E2=80=9Cinnovation=E2=80=9D before it is = "too late" on RHEL.= From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness Resent-From: Ricardo Wurmus Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 06:14:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Van L Cc: Paul Eggert , Emacs-Devel devel , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , Phillip Lord Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.152722879420293 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 25 May 2018 06:14:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2018 06:13:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47259 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM5yU-0005HE-JI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 02:13:14 -0400 Received: from sender-of-o51.zoho.com ([135.84.80.216]:21062) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM5yS-0005H0-Bh for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 02:13:12 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1527228690; s=zoho; d=elephly.net; i=rekado@elephly.net; h=References:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-reply-to:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; l=943; bh=QzPRh6PPqYoM92KLz6Zvh6SPh+PQrFqdv+0WB0lmcqY=; b=imCatwYrdpdltKepSVJ/8RXAJ5RB8lec0s2XV5/9G0xaERw9T8OrwgZsFzivkvtE Ek1nFh3IQRHCXnb73kK1+B5QY6IQSaNek7IIoXVFUHbvVHSkfdNyfev5RdZbrPHx2kw vGfLzUllpaYcvyaL3MkyD521/krTmrg+cL/bNtJQ= Received: from localhost (port-92-200-51-123.dynamic.qsc.de [92.200.51.123]) by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 152722869040132.06256671509425; Thu, 24 May 2018 23:11:30 -0700 (PDT) References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <6443412a-5803-d9c0-1ef3-ece7f49c43e1@cs.ucla.edu> User-agent: mu4e 1.0; emacs 25.3.1 From: Ricardo Wurmus In-reply-to: X-URL: https://elephly.net X-PGP-Key: https://elephly.net/rekado.pubkey X-PGP-Fingerprint: BCA6 89B6 3655 3801 C3C6 2150 197A 5888 235F ACAC Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 08:11:25 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <87fu2gb6ya.fsf@elephly.net> X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Van L writes: >> Paul Eggert writes: >> >> this is the most recent RHEL available > > You could have your sclerotic institution=E2=80=99s IT manager provide > Enterprise RHEL for students studying topics as old as the hills and > mountains (and they won=E2=80=99t change) and request them to =E2=80=9Cth= ink" about > the latest unstable Fedora or Debian or Ubuntu releases for research > oriented experimental AI & CS =E2=80=9Cwork=E2=80=9D which are hot career= topics and > ought not to be held back by bureaucratically convenient RHEL IT > hell. Ask them for what Tesla or Uber or Facebook or Google use to > keep up with =E2=80=9Cinnovation=E2=80=9D before it is "too late" on RHEL= . This is not constructive. There are even RHEL 6 deployments out there, because it=E2=80=99s still supported until 2020. There are people who pay for the privilege of not having to upgrade. -- Ricardo From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 06:17:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Paul Eggert Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.152722898720629 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 25 May 2018 06:17:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2018 06:16:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47269 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM61b-0005Mf-G8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 02:16:27 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:57386) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM61Z-0005MS-Pt for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 02:16:26 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fM61T-00021l-Ux for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 02:16:20 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:52231) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fM61E-0001wN-ST; Fri, 25 May 2018 02:16:04 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1217 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1fM61E-0005ZT-8H; Fri, 25 May 2018 02:16:04 -0400 Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 09:16:16 +0300 Message-Id: <83sh6g9s5r.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <6443412a-5803-d9c0-1ef3-ece7f49c43e1@cs.ucla.edu> (message from Paul Eggert on Thu, 24 May 2018 15:03:56 -0700) References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <6443412a-5803-d9c0-1ef3-ece7f49c43e1@cs.ucla.edu> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Paul Eggert > Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 15:03:56 -0700 > Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , > 20484@debbugs.gnu.org > > Bash 4.4 came out only in September 2016, and it's too soon to assume > it. I agree, 1.5 years is too soon. I think we need 5 years at least. > How about this idea: At Emacs build time, we check whether Bash is 4.4 > or later, and if so we use a term.el that assumes bash 4.4 or later. > Otherwise, we use a term.el that interrogates the shell dynamically for > whether it is shell and if so what its version number is, the first time > that Emacs runs a process under a shell. The first part will only work if Emacs is used on the same system where it is built, right? Is that a good assumption, given all the binary distributions? From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness Resent-From: Van L Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 07:29:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: Paul Eggert , emacs-devel@gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.152723332326896 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 25 May 2018 07:29:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2018 07:28:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47311 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM79W-0006zk-Mi for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 03:28:42 -0400 Received: from relay6-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.198]:42233) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM79V-0006zZ-Fy; Fri, 25 May 2018 03:28:41 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 123.243.244.176 Received: from epi.local (123-243-244-176.tpgi.com.au [123.243.244.176]) (Authenticated sender: van@scratch.space) by relay6-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3CDEDC0012; Fri, 25 May 2018 09:28:38 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Van L In-Reply-To: <83sh6g9s5r.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 17:28:31 +1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <6443412a-5803-d9c0-1ef3-ece7f49c43e1@cs.ucla.edu> <83sh6g9s5r.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Eli Zaretskii writes: > >> Bash 4.4 came out only in September 2016, and it's too soon to assume >> it. > > I agree, 1.5 years is too soon. I think we need 5 years at least. How about applying the 5-multiplier to 9-month cycles? From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 08:05:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Van L Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, emacs-devel@gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.152723544330114 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 25 May 2018 08:05:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2018 08:04:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47327 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM7hf-0007pB-L1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 04:04:03 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45269) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fM7he-0007ou-EN for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 04:03:58 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fM7hW-00016Z-BD for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 04:03:53 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:53261) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fM7gI-0000eL-Fk; Fri, 25 May 2018 04:02:34 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1419 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1fM7gH-0006KG-On; Fri, 25 May 2018 04:02:34 -0400 Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 11:02:46 +0300 Message-Id: <83efi09n89.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: (message from Van L on Fri, 25 May 2018 17:28:31 +1000) References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <6443412a-5803-d9c0-1ef3-ece7f49c43e1@cs.ucla.edu> <83sh6g9s5r.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Van L > Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 17:28:31 +1000 > Cc: Paul Eggert , emacs-devel@gnu.org, > 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, > monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk > > > I agree, 1.5 years is too soon. I think we need 5 years at least. > > How about applying the 5-multiplier to 9-month cycles? I think you are confusing this with an entirely different domain. From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness Resent-From: Paul Eggert Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 18:00:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Van L Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Emacs-Devel devel , 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , Phillip Lord Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.152727117311386 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 25 May 2018 18:00:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2018 17:59:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48698 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMH00-0002xZ-Mr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 13:59:32 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:39108) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMGzy-0002xF-Jo; Fri, 25 May 2018 13:59:31 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFEA9160780; Fri, 25 May 2018 10:59:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id AugcRpsFklUu; Fri, 25 May 2018 10:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E32BA1607B7; Fri, 25 May 2018 10:59:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id DskptPQzmHoR; Fri, 25 May 2018 10:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BB702160780; Fri, 25 May 2018 10:59:23 -0700 (PDT) References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <6443412a-5803-d9c0-1ef3-ece7f49c43e1@cs.ucla.edu> From: Paul Eggert Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=eggert@cs.ucla.edu; 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Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On 05/24/2018 07:25 PM, Van L wrote: > Ask them for what Tesla or Uber or Facebook or Google use I just checked the first company mentioned on your list (Tesla) and it=20 is posting want-ads that ask for Red Hat expertise. Unfortunately I=20 can't disclose what I privately know about Tesla, but suffice it to say=20 that like most other successful companies they use a wide variety of=20 systems in their work, and not all of these systems are the very latest=20 version of everything. > I can understand the excuse for long-term-support system contracts but = not for the poster=E2=80=99s student environment. > > You refer to lazy privileged people I'm afraid there's a misunderstanding here. At UCLA we have a wide=20 variety of systems running many different OSes. Servers at UCLA run many=20 operating systems; it's quite a gamut, as we have a lot of departments=20 and research groups, most of which focus on areas other than computer=20 science and who have a lot of software of varying quality that they=20 don't necessarily have time or budget to upgrade or maintain=20 extensively. The courses I teach are assigned to a batch of RHEL 7=20 servers that support many different courses, not just mine. I do not=20 specify or maintain the server OSes; that's a responsibility of the=20 operations staff of the School of Engineering, and they're busy people=20 who do not report to me. To help keep my course material up-to-date I install copies of the=20 latest released versions of Emacs (currently 25.3), Bash (currently=20 4.4.19), and many other free software programs. (I don't overwrite=20 /usr/bin of course; I install into a separate directory that students=20 put into their PATH settings.) So it'll be little trouble to me or my=20 students if Emacs requires Bash 4.4 or later. When I mentioned RHEL 7, I=20 wasn't simply talking about my personal situation; I was observing that=20 requiring Bash 4.4 would be a hassle for people installing newer Emacs=20 versions onto Red Hat servers, as it would require these people to also=20 install newer Bash versions. If it's important for Emacs to require Bash=20 4.4 of course Emacs can do so; still, I expect that the overall hassle=20 to Emacs users of requiring Bash 4.4 still outweighs the relatively=20 minor technical benefit in question. Sorry, but that's how things often=20 work in production software. With all this in mind you might want to rethink your comments that among=20 other things seem to imply that the staff at UCLA consists of "lazy=20 privileged people". From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness Resent-From: Paul Eggert Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 20:37:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Phillip Lord , Emacs-Devel devel Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.152728057325107 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 25 May 2018 20:37:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2018 20:36:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48759 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMJRd-0006Ws-3b for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 16:36:13 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:38706) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMJRb-0006Wb-44; Fri, 25 May 2018 16:36:11 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D6E11600B2; Fri, 25 May 2018 13:36:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id X-vhxVxhVOB2; Fri, 25 May 2018 13:36:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 108671601EE; Fri, 25 May 2018 13:36:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id NlFw-7nfbRMT; Fri, 25 May 2018 13:36:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E6CA91600B2; Fri, 25 May 2018 13:36:03 -0700 (PDT) References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> From: Paul Eggert Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=eggert@cs.ucla.edu; 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Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------9155CDE1424DD4CFAD5C4BE2" Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------9155CDE1424DD4CFAD5C4BE2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 05/24/2018 01:46 PM, Phillip Lord wrote: > I would like to propose that we now remove this on master, > Given the compatibility concerns expressed, how about the attached patch instead? The idea is to remove the need to setenv EMACS with newer Bashes, while still setting EMACS for older Bashes, for backward compatibility. --------------9155CDE1424DD4CFAD5C4BE2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; name="0001-Don-t-set-EMACS-t-if-Bash-is-4.4-or-newer.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-Don-t-set-EMACS-t-if-Bash-is-4.4-or-newer.txt" RnJvbSBmN2VmZGM0ZDIxYzIyYTgxMzk4YjA2Y2RjNTgxNDRlYzJmOWM3Njk3IE1vbiBTZXAg MTcgMDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBQYXVsIEVnZ2VydCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1 PgpEYXRlOiBGcmksIDI1IE1heSAyMDE4IDEzOjI1OjUxIC0wNzAwClN1YmplY3Q6IFtQUk9Q T1NFRF0gPT9VVEYtOD9xP0Rvbj1FMj04MD05OXQ9MjBzZXQ9MjBFTUFDUz0zRHQ9MjBpZj0y MEJhc2g/PQogPT9VVEYtOD9xPz0yMGlzPTIwNC40PTIwb3I9MjBuZXdlcj89Ck1JTUUtVmVy c2lvbjogMS4wCkNvbnRlbnQtVHlwZTogdGV4dC9wbGFpbjsgY2hhcnNldD1VVEYtOApDb250 ZW50LVRyYW5zZmVyLUVuY29kaW5nOiA4Yml0CgoqIGxpc3AvdGVybS5lbCAodGVybS0tYmFz aC1uZWVkcy1FTUFDUy1zdGF0dXMpOiBOZXcgdmFyLgoodGVybS0tYmFzaC1uZWVkcy1FTUFD 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help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Paul Eggert Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , Emacs-Devel devel Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.15272876703946 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 25 May 2018 22:35:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2018 22:34:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48829 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMLI6-00011V-6c for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 18:34:30 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([78.129.138.110]:57016) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMLI4-00011D-FN; Fri, 25 May 2018 18:34:29 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=7Qoj3AW0/oiQLQeCHkgQIKk9HGUTx6Zd9qBzOR8xaso=; b=xS+SBQUzXoqJ3/yFCziYwNgQf sWOe5V4I67vrtEnWUCDYPa3J9YQa8MoH3I/8NhpU0FpLHo7afTPyowB5slbgrusURm8RedLXcSoem 8JWQ5+Fnqzl7AXPTdhKwCPHnPsMBKpVQX1qwbYh1ntmCCVTr8Oko+rHDxGkdrokkzsAfDbt5ZJzdR mSZDRdBr5H/5XvKb+li2O1GWANFwd0BhxIajmMza1GnS9+MChEbjKQe810LH4vbynANKcFCOT1BUH LRHyQ3oNVCaCwsgfFMpi9LM4HgHrrZ1ptxLupny0yOHKMUzHBq5z4RrDfoySmn9bh58x1H2uREWLq QED3UTTaw==; Received: from cpc142652-benw12-2-0-cust953.16-2.cable.virginm.net ([82.21.43.186]:55364 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1fMLHx-0008Vv-Ew; Fri, 25 May 2018 22:34:21 +0000 From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <6443412a-5803-d9c0-1ef3-ece7f49c43e1@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 23:34:20 +0100 In-Reply-To: <6443412a-5803-d9c0-1ef3-ece7f49c43e1@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Thu, 24 May 2018 15:03:56 -0700") Message-ID: <87k1rrl5zn.fsf@russet.org.uk> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Paul Eggert writes: > Bash 4.4 came out only in September 2016, and it's too soon to assume > it. For example, my students regularly use Emacs on a server running > RHEL 7, which ships Bash 4.2.46, and as I understand it, this is the > most recent RHEL available. Well, Emacs-27 will come out in 2020, so that's 4 years lead time. And the most recent of RHEL also ships with Emacs-24. So, by the time RHEL ships Emacs-27, good chance it will ship Bash 4.4. > How about this idea: At Emacs build time, we check whether Bash is 4.4 > or later, and if so we use a term.el that assumes bash 4.4 or > later. Otherwise, we use a term.el that interrogates the shell > dynamically for whether it is shell and if so what its version number > is, the first time that Emacs runs a process under a shell. Well, the latter half we could do (I don't think the build idea makes sense). But I was hoping to make life simpler, not more complex. Phil From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness Resent-From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 22:50:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Paul Eggert Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , Emacs-Devel devel Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.15272886005463 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 25 May 2018 22:50:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2018 22:50:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48837 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMLX5-0001Py-Qo for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 May 2018 18:50:00 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([78.129.138.110]:59134) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMLX4-0001Ph-By; Fri, 25 May 2018 18:49:58 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=x0Fz4AyOsDR05JWyeFDdHspggKyK1HHkSHrHklU0ZEg=; b=NWQNbFvcwe6y82vplNzJr0JDT S8iAqm7mmMQqUGnlT/Uwpf1VH/oFcfEPFMeNpm7jwab8j9NNx/z1a1hkv3yojO2bm7Sre5Y4e/1Hv vOagB2P4OdOb+YSeHBbPf0oXYFES/KlUE34EhcXwPnk/zq/tEzq2Fk9XI7g2aTYrwOjwMnnKVFos1 05+PEOm9H8QODvDY5ohmBHpQPFvla4jHycma6zBqpI4hv2Ydz1Orb0BDL3hS10BlmVCrMrbyyQ1+r 6wxWCJDVE5ZTNvYPRjXyDtjnudgR2GesQMOyIU9BXk19wdLd0F9Fkgg7XXS5DQHgJ+MeplziQr3v9 lT9aH/L/g==; Received: from cpc142652-benw12-2-0-cust953.16-2.cable.virginm.net ([82.21.43.186]:55420 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1fMLWy-0001wp-56; Fri, 25 May 2018 22:49:52 +0000 From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <85133880-5ae1-223a-50e6-4646adbf8052@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 23:49:51 +0100 In-Reply-To: <85133880-5ae1-223a-50e6-4646adbf8052@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Fri, 25 May 2018 13:36:03 -0700") Message-ID: <87fu2fl59s.fsf@russet.org.uk> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Paul Eggert writes: > On 05/24/2018 01:46 PM, Phillip Lord wrote: >> I would like to propose that we now remove this on master, >> > > Given the compatibility concerns expressed, how about the attached > patch instead? The idea is to remove the need to setenv EMACS with > newer Bashes, while still setting EMACS for older Bashes, for backward > compatibility. > > From f7efdc4d21c22a81398b06cdc58144ec2f9c7697 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 > From: Paul Eggert > Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 13:25:51 -0700 > Subject: [PROPOSED] =?UTF-8?q?Don=E2=80=99t=20set=20EMACS=3Dt=20if=20Bash?= > =?UTF-8?q?=20is=204.4=20or=20newer?= > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > * lisp/term.el (term--bash-needs-EMACS-status): New var. > (term--bash-needs-EMACSp): New function. > (term-exec-1): Use it instead of always setting EMACS. > --- > lisp/term.el | 31 +++++++++++++++++++++++++------ > 1 file changed, 25 insertions(+), 6 deletions(-) > > diff --git a/lisp/term.el b/lisp/term.el > index 017b0221ec..fa43774ae8 100644 > --- a/lisp/term.el > +++ b/lisp/term.el > @@ -1489,6 +1489,26 @@ term-termcap-format > ;; don't define :te=\\E[2J\\E[?47l\\E8:ti=\\E7\\E[?47h\ > "Termcap capabilities supported.") > > +;; This is for backwards compatibility with Bash 4.3 and earlier. > +;; Remove this hack once Bash 4.4-or-later is reasonably universal, because > +;; it slows down execution slightly, just before the first subshell. > +(defvar term--bash-needs-EMACS-status nil > + "43 if Bash is so old that it needs EMACS set. > +Some other integer if Bash is new or not in use. > +Nil if unknown.") > +(defun term--bash-needs-EMACSp () > + "t if Bash is old, nil if it is new or not in use." > + (unless term--bash-needs-EMACS-status > + (let ((process-environment (copy-sequence process-environment))) > + (setenv "BASH_ENV") > + (setq term--bash-needs-EMACS-status > + (condition-case nil > + (call-process > + "bash" nil nil nil "-c" > + "case $BASH_VERSION in [0123].*|4.[0123].*) exit 43;; esac") > + (error 0))))) > + (eq 43 term--bash-needs-EMACS-status)) > + > ;; This auxiliary function cranks up the process for term-exec in > ;; the appropriate environment. > > @@ -1506,12 +1526,6 @@ term-exec-1 > (format term-termcap-format "TERMCAP=" > term-term-name term-height term-width) > > - ;; This is for backwards compatibility with Bash 4.3 and earlier. > - ;; Remove this hack once Bash 4.4-or-later is common, because > - ;; it breaks './configure' of some packages that expect it to > - ;; say where to find EMACS. > - (format "EMACS=%s (term:%s)" emacs-version term-protocol-version) > - > (format "INSIDE_EMACS=%s,term:%s" emacs-version term-protocol-version) > (format "LINES=%d" term-height) > (format "COLUMNS=%d" term-width)) > @@ -1523,6 +1537,11 @@ term-exec-1 > ;; escape codes, so we need to see the raw output. We will have to > ;; do the decoding by hand on the parts that are made of chars. > (coding-system-for-read 'binary)) > + (when (term--bash-needs-EMACSp) > + (setq process-environment > + (cons > + (format "EMACS=%s (term:%s)" emacs-version term-protocol-version) > + process-environment))) > (apply 'start-process name buffer > "/bin/sh" "-c" > (format "stty -nl echo rows %d columns %d sane 2>/dev/null;\ It's a solution, afaict. However, one which is more complex than we already have. The problem with RHEL probably only effects weird people like you (and me!) who use a stock bash on an old RHEL, then compile the latest Emacs. And us weird people could probably circumvent the problem with term anyway. You, Stefan and Eli have far more experience here clearly. Happy with what ever you decide. Phil From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 26 May 2018 07:22:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Paul Eggert Cc: 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.152731927117436 (code B ref 20202); Sat, 26 May 2018 07:22:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 May 2018 07:21:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48979 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMTVn-0004X8-CE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 May 2018 03:21:11 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:34500) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMTVm-0004Ww-Be for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 May 2018 03:21:10 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fMTVd-0002nU-C4 for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 May 2018 03:21:05 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:59029) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fMTV9-0002YH-2a; Sat, 26 May 2018 03:20:31 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3328 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1fMTV8-0001On-Fg; Sat, 26 May 2018 03:20:30 -0400 Date: Sat, 26 May 2018 10:20:17 +0300 Message-Id: <831sdyanny.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <85133880-5ae1-223a-50e6-4646adbf8052@cs.ucla.edu> (message from Paul Eggert on Fri, 25 May 2018 13:36:03 -0700) References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <85133880-5ae1-223a-50e6-4646adbf8052@cs.ucla.edu> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Paul Eggert > Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 13:36:03 -0700 > Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , > 20484@debbugs.gnu.org > > Given the compatibility concerns expressed, how about the attached patch > instead? I like it because it is future proof, and makes our burden of remembering this issue easier. Thanks. From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Eli Barzilay Subject: bug#20202: closed (Re: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness) Message-ID: References: <21779.11347.198784.304481@home.barzilay.org> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 20202 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Sat, 26 May 2018 20:55:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1527368102-17108-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1527368102-17108-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #20202: 24.3; Comint mode sets a bad $EMACS which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 20202@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 20202: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D20202 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1527368102-17108-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 20202-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 May 2018 20:54:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49950 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMgDK-0004RQ-89 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 May 2018 16:54:58 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:48546) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMgDI-0004R9-1Q; Sat, 26 May 2018 16:54:56 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1F991605EA; Sat, 26 May 2018 13:54:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id UQz05povvoVN; Sat, 26 May 2018 13:54:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AE13160615; Sat, 26 May 2018 13:54:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id saYTjQk7UMco; Sat, 26 May 2018 13:54:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [47.154.30.119]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E28731605EA; Sat, 26 May 2018 13:54:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness To: Eli Zaretskii References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <85133880-5ae1-223a-50e6-4646adbf8052@cs.ucla.edu> <831sdyanny.fsf@gnu.org> From: Paul Eggert Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=eggert@cs.ucla.edu; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBEyAcmQBEADAAyH2xoTu7ppG5D3a8FMZEon74dCvc4+q1XA2J2tBy2pwaTqfhpxxdGA9 Jj50UJ3PD4bSUEgN8tLZ0san47l5XTAFLi2456ciSl5m8sKaHlGdt9XmAAtmXqeZVIYX/UFS 96fDzf4xhEmm/y7LbYEPQdUdxu47xA5KhTYp5bltF3WYDz1Ygd7gx07Auwp7iw7eNvnoDTAl KAl8KYDZzbDNCQGEbpY3efZIvPdeI+FWQN4W+kghy+P6au6PrIIhYraeua7XDdb2LS1en3Ss mE3QjqfRqI/A2ue8JMwsvXe/WK38Ezs6x74iTaqI3AFH6ilAhDqpMnd/msSESNFt76DiO1ZK QMr9amVPknjfPmJISqdhgB1DlEdw34sROf6V8mZw0xfqT6PKE46LcFefzs0kbg4GORf8vjG2 Sf1tk5eU8MBiyN/bZ03bKNjNYMpODDQQwuP84kYLkX2wBxxMAhBxwbDVZudzxDZJ1C2VXujC OJVxq2kljBM9ETYuUGqd75AW2LXrLw6+MuIsHFAYAgRr7+KcwDgBAfwhPBYX34nSSiHlmLC+ KaHLeCLF5ZI2vKm3HEeCTtlOg7xZEONgwzL+fdKo+D6SoC8RRxJKs8a3sVfI4t6CnrQzvJbB n6gxdgCu5i29J1QCYrCYvql2UyFPAK+do99/1jOXT4m2836j1wARAQABzSBQYXVsIEVnZ2Vy dCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1PsLBfgQTAQIAKAUCTIByZAIbAwUJEswDAAYLCQgHAwIG FQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjRRGw/+Ij03dhYfYl/gXVRiuzV1gGrbHk+t nfrI/C7fAeoFzQ5tVgVinShaPkZo0HTPf18x6IDEdAiO8Mqo1yp0CtHmzGMCJ50o4Grgfjlr 6g/+vtEOKbhleszN2XpJvpwM2QgGvn/laTLUu8PH9aRWTs7qJJZKKKAb4sxYc92FehPu6FOD 0dDiyhlDAq4lOV2mdBpzQbiojoZzQLMQwjpgCTK2572eK9EOEQySUThXrSIz6ASenp4NYTFH s9tuJQvXk9gZDdPSl3bp+47dGxlxEWLpBIM7zIONw4ks4azgT8nvDZxA5IZHtvqBlJLBObYY 0Le61Wp0y3TlBDh2qdK8eYL426W4scEMSuig5gb8OAtQiBW6k2sGUxxeiv8ovWu8YAZgKJfu oWI+uRnMEddruY8JsoM54KaKvZikkKs2bg1ndtLVzHpJ6qFZC7QVjeHUh6/BmgvdjWPZYFTt N+KA9CWX3GQKKgN3uu988yznD7LnB98T4EUH1HA/GnfBqMV1gpzTvPc4qVQinCmIkEFp83zl +G5fCjJJ3W7ivzCnYo4KhKLpFUm97okTKR2LW3xZzEW4cLSWO387MTK3CzDOx5qe6s4a91Zu ZM/j/TQdTLDaqNn83kA4Hq48UHXYxcIh+Nd8k/3w6lFuoK0wrOFiywjLx+0ur5jmmbecBGHc 1xdhAFHOwU0ETIByZAEQAKaF678T9wyH4wjTrV1Pz3cDEoSnV/0ZUrOT37p1dcGyj/IXq1x6 70HRVahAmk0sZpYc25PF9D5GPYHFWlNjuPU96rDndXB3hedmBRhLdC4bAXjI4DV+bmdVe+q/ IMnlZRaVlm9EiMCVAR6w13sReu7qXkW9r3RwY2AzXskp/tAe4BRKr1Zmbvi2nbnQ6epEC42r Rbx0B1EhjbIQZ5JHGk24iPT7LdBgnNmos5wYjzwNlkMQD5T0Ydzhk7J+UxwA5m46mOhRDC2r FV/A0gm5TLy8DXjv/Esc4gYnYai6SQqnUEVh5LuV8YCJBnijs+Tiw71x1icmn6xGI45EugJO gec+rLypYgpVp4x0HI5T88qBRYCkxH3Kg8Qo+EWNA9A4LRQ9DX8njona0gf0s03tocK8kBN6 6UoqqPtHBnc4eMgBymCflK12eKfd2YYxnyg9cZazWA5VslvTxpm76hbg5oiAEH/Vg/8MxHyA nPhfrgwyPrmJEcVBafdspJnYQxBYNco2LFPIhlOvWh8r4at+s+M3Lb26oUTczlgdW1Sf3SDA 77BMRnF0FQyE+7AzV79MBN4ykiqaezQxtaF1Fy/tvkhffSo8u+dwG0EgJh+te38gTcISVr0G IPplLz6YhjrbHrPRF1CN5UuL9DBGjxuN35RLNVEfta6RUFlR6NctTjvrABEBAAHCwWUEGAEC AA8FAkyAcmQCGwwFCRLMAwAACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjSrHA/+KzAKvTxRhA9MWNLxIyJ7S5uJ16gs T3oCjZrBKGEhKMOGX4O0GA6VOEryO7QRCCYah3oxSG38IAnNeiwJXgU9Bzkk85UGbPEd7HGF /VSeHCQwWou6jqUDTSDvn9YhNTdG0KXPM74aC+xr2Zow1O2mhXihgWKD0Dw+0LYPnUOsQ0KO FxHXXYHmRrS1OZPU59BLvc+TRhIhafSHKLwbXK+6ckkxBx6h8z5ccpG0Qs4bFhdFYnFrEieD LoGmnE2YLhdV6swJ9VNCS6pLiEohT3fm7aXm15tZOIyzMZhHRSAPblXxQ0ZSWjq8oRrcYNFx c4W1URpAkBCOYJoXvQfD5L3lqAl8TCqDUzYxhH/tJhbDdHrqHH767jaDaTB1+Talp/2AMKwc XNOdiklGxbmHVG6YGl6g8Lrbsu9NZEI4yLlHzuikthJWgz+3vZhVGyNlt+HNIoF6CjDL2omu 5cEq4RDHM44QqPk6l7O0pUvN1mT4B+S1b08RKpqm/ff015E37HNV/piIvJlxGAYz8PSfuGCB 1thMYqlmgdhd9/BabGFbGGYHA6U4/T5zqU+f6xHy1SsAQZ1MSKlLwekBIT+4/cLRGqCHjnV0 q5H/T6a7t5mPkbzSrOLSo4puj+IToNjYyYIDBWzhlA19avOa+rvUjmHtD3sFN7cXWtkGoi8b uNcby4U= Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: Date: Sat, 26 May 2018 13:54:46 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <831sdyanny.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------FCF4219F0431E2F78D409F77" Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20202-done Cc: Eli Barzilay , emacs-devel@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 20202-done@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------FCF4219F0431E2F78D409F77 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eli Zaretskii wrote: > I like it because it is future proof, and makes our burden of > remembering this issue easier. >=20 > Thanks. You're welcome. Stefan privately emailed me some helpful comments that im= proved=20 the patch (thanks!), and I installed the attached into master. In the hop= e that=20 this has laid Bug#20202 to rest (at least on modern GNU systems running B= ash 4.4=20 or later), I'm boldly closing the bug report. --------------FCF4219F0431E2F78D409F77 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; name="0001-Don-t-set-EMACS-t-if-Bash-is-4.4-or-newer.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-Don-t-set-EMACS-t-if-Bash-is-4.4-or-newer.txt" RnJvbSA2ZmNhYjgzNjAwMzE3ZTk0ZWE3YjkxNWRhNzczMGE4YzdlNTAyMjZkIE1vbiBTZXAg MTcgMDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBQYXVsIEVnZ2VydCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1 PgpEYXRlOiBTYXQsIDI2IE1heSAyMDE4IDEzOjI5OjA2IC0wNzAwClN1YmplY3Q6IFtQQVRD SF0gPT9VVEYtOD9xP0Rvbj1FMj04MD05OXQ9MjBzZXQ9MjBFTUFDUz0zRHQ9MjBpZj0yMEJh c2g9MjBpPz0KID0/VVRGLTg/cT9zPTIwNC40PTIwb3I9MjBuZXdlcj89Ck1JTUUtVmVyc2lv bjogMS4wCkNvbnRlbnQtVHlwZTogdGV4dC9wbGFpbjsgY2hhcnNldD1VVEYtOApDb250ZW50 LVRyYW5zZmVyLUVuY29kaW5nOiA4Yml0CgooVGhhbmtzIHRvIFN0ZWZhbiBNb25uaWVyIGZv 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[24.60.254.179]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id d49sm1519180qge.19.2015.03.25.14.44.52 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 25 Mar 2015 14:44:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Eli Barzilay MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <21779.11347.198784.304481@home.barzilay.org> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 17:44:51 -0400 To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.3; Comint mode sets a bad $EMACS X-Mailer: VM 8.2.0a under 24.3.1 (x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) I was surprised to see that compiling some random Emacs code via a Makefile fails when running inside Emacs with an obscure /bin/sh: t: command not found I found this setting in comint.el: (unless (getenv "EMACS") (list "EMACS=t")) And that would obviously break such Makefile uses (and IIUC, $EMACS is a popular choice for specifying which emacs binary to use). It looks like this was done in this commit: commit cfefbbf4404963cdf042fb794e0456503aa8b591 Author: Chong Yidong Date: 2006-11-18 21:01:33 +0000 (comint-exec-1): Set EMACS and INSIDE_EMACS to t. Before this commit, EMACS was set with (concat "EMACS=" invocation-directory invocation-name) which doesn't look like a good idea either (if you happen to use some other Emacs version, you still expect the shell to be a plain shell), but it at least didn't break it. But this change was done shortly after: commit 4b1aaa8b07cf2797b5a57e2a1fd88f3ec0aa41e2 Author: Paul Eggert Date: 2006-09-12 16:43:25 +0000 * etc/NEWS: In terminal-oriented subshells, the EMACS environment variable now defaults to Emacs's absolute file name, instead of to "t". and before that (all the way to the initial comint version in git), it was always "t". It looks like this was intended as a way to tell if you're running inside emacs, which was superseded by $INSIDE_EMACS -- misc.texi says (It also sets the @env{EMACS} environment variable to @code{t}, if that environment variable is not already defined. However, this environment variable is deprecated; programs that use it should switch to using @env{INSIDE_EMACS} instead.) and the changelog dates this to the same date as the first commit above. So, since it has been deprecated for almost 8 years, it looks fine to remove it. If not, then setting it back to the running Emacs would work too, but better to not do such an unexpected change, so something like "EMACS=emacs" is probably going to be unobtrusive. Or if there's some motivation behind intentionally making it some string that is not an executable, then "EMACS=some-descriptive-text" would be better. As a sidenote, misc/efaq.texi uses $EMACS still. (But for tcsh, so not that anyone should care...) -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life! ------------=_1527368102-17108-1-- From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness Resent-From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 21:14:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Paul Eggert Cc: Eli Barzilay , emacs-devel@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, Eli Zaretskii , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202-done@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 20202-done@debbugs.gnu.org id=D20202.152780118924159 (code D ref 20202); Thu, 31 May 2018 21:14:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 May 2018 21:13:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56330 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fOUsf-0006HW-8f for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 31 May 2018 17:13:09 -0400 Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([78.129.138.110]:38646) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fOUsd-0006Gs-5c; Thu, 31 May 2018 17:13:07 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID :Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=qfSbC0GwKRNUQLhdUXhMRZsxbDsVbQN97F761kxLutE=; b=dgJ4zJuiKJJJfxN7AQUiiJkqS oM2YTefTbWuKzwrZDM0qslyhOQcRI/VyNGUnMVCwf5o+TOoiKBH9nF7rk9DOmphZV8RU95tUj3zUv f0XXC9ZwqZ5v3cHMx1tloMEBylHGh0nX7btQZcH7NjvH9zrAn0/l9Abu6xq4zvw2iMcW3Xkx0jxT6 pxwGZuZuTQgBcQcP5stgh1GECcle7LR130dPOEss1hPqslnA1qlOs5N9CXNdQQenTGufJNIXV7vUs 70cI36YPC3TrMinHslybSJagNDoEQKjUk+yGSfeRm3G9z7c+pZyjd7Qff4Kdh0RmhRkq3tVQIX0qS w+TT52zyQ==; Received: from cpc142652-benw12-2-0-cust953.16-2.cable.virginm.net ([82.21.43.186]:39672 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1fOUsW-0004S1-0u; Thu, 31 May 2018 21:13:00 +0000 From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) In-Reply-To: (Paul Eggert's message of "Sat, 26 May 2018 13:54:46 -0700") Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 22:07:49 +0100 Message-ID: <87muwf4jq2.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <85133880-5ae1-223a-50e6-4646adbf8052@cs.ucla.edu> <831sdyanny.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Paul Eggert writes: > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> I like it because it is future proof, and makes our burden of >> remembering this issue easier. >> >> Thanks. > > You're welcome. Stefan privately emailed me some helpful comments that > improved the patch (thanks!), and I installed the attached into > master. In the hope that this has laid Bug#20202 to rest (at least on > modern GNU systems running Bash 4.4 or later), I'm boldly closing the > bug report. Not wishing to reopen the bug report that you have so boldly closed, given that this would appear to be a conservative change rather than the breaking one I was suggesting, any reason why this can't be installed on emacs-26? Phil From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness Resent-From: Paul Eggert Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 23:47:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Phillip Lord Cc: Eli Barzilay , emacs-devel@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, Eli Zaretskii , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202-done@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 20202-done@debbugs.gnu.org id=D20202.15278103678734 (code D ref 20202); Thu, 31 May 2018 23:47:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 May 2018 23:46:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56385 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fOXGh-0002Gl-Gh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 31 May 2018 19:46:07 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:41868) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fOXGg-0002G0-DV; Thu, 31 May 2018 19:46:07 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9319E16005A; Thu, 31 May 2018 16:46:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id jiIE4u7Ua2WW; Thu, 31 May 2018 16:45:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D86CD1606CC; Thu, 31 May 2018 16:45:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id y6kGh9F8Qmtw; Thu, 31 May 2018 16:45:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BA2B916005A; Thu, 31 May 2018 16:45:59 -0700 (PDT) References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <85133880-5ae1-223a-50e6-4646adbf8052@cs.ucla.edu> <831sdyanny.fsf@gnu.org> <87muwf4jq2.fsf@russet.org.uk> From: Paul Eggert Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=eggert@cs.ucla.edu; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBEyAcmQBEADAAyH2xoTu7ppG5D3a8FMZEon74dCvc4+q1XA2J2tBy2pwaTqfhpxxdGA9 Jj50UJ3PD4bSUEgN8tLZ0san47l5XTAFLi2456ciSl5m8sKaHlGdt9XmAAtmXqeZVIYX/UFS 96fDzf4xhEmm/y7LbYEPQdUdxu47xA5KhTYp5bltF3WYDz1Ygd7gx07Auwp7iw7eNvnoDTAl KAl8KYDZzbDNCQGEbpY3efZIvPdeI+FWQN4W+kghy+P6au6PrIIhYraeua7XDdb2LS1en3Ss mE3QjqfRqI/A2ue8JMwsvXe/WK38Ezs6x74iTaqI3AFH6ilAhDqpMnd/msSESNFt76DiO1ZK QMr9amVPknjfPmJISqdhgB1DlEdw34sROf6V8mZw0xfqT6PKE46LcFefzs0kbg4GORf8vjG2 Sf1tk5eU8MBiyN/bZ03bKNjNYMpODDQQwuP84kYLkX2wBxxMAhBxwbDVZudzxDZJ1C2VXujC OJVxq2kljBM9ETYuUGqd75AW2LXrLw6+MuIsHFAYAgRr7+KcwDgBAfwhPBYX34nSSiHlmLC+ KaHLeCLF5ZI2vKm3HEeCTtlOg7xZEONgwzL+fdKo+D6SoC8RRxJKs8a3sVfI4t6CnrQzvJbB n6gxdgCu5i29J1QCYrCYvql2UyFPAK+do99/1jOXT4m2836j1wARAQABzSBQYXVsIEVnZ2Vy dCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1PsLBfgQTAQIAKAUCTIByZAIbAwUJEswDAAYLCQgHAwIG FQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjRRGw/+Ij03dhYfYl/gXVRiuzV1gGrbHk+t nfrI/C7fAeoFzQ5tVgVinShaPkZo0HTPf18x6IDEdAiO8Mqo1yp0CtHmzGMCJ50o4Grgfjlr 6g/+vtEOKbhleszN2XpJvpwM2QgGvn/laTLUu8PH9aRWTs7qJJZKKKAb4sxYc92FehPu6FOD 0dDiyhlDAq4lOV2mdBpzQbiojoZzQLMQwjpgCTK2572eK9EOEQySUThXrSIz6ASenp4NYTFH s9tuJQvXk9gZDdPSl3bp+47dGxlxEWLpBIM7zIONw4ks4azgT8nvDZxA5IZHtvqBlJLBObYY 0Le61Wp0y3TlBDh2qdK8eYL426W4scEMSuig5gb8OAtQiBW6k2sGUxxeiv8ovWu8YAZgKJfu oWI+uRnMEddruY8JsoM54KaKvZikkKs2bg1ndtLVzHpJ6qFZC7QVjeHUh6/BmgvdjWPZYFTt N+KA9CWX3GQKKgN3uu988yznD7LnB98T4EUH1HA/GnfBqMV1gpzTvPc4qVQinCmIkEFp83zl +G5fCjJJ3W7ivzCnYo4KhKLpFUm97okTKR2LW3xZzEW4cLSWO387MTK3CzDOx5qe6s4a91Zu ZM/j/TQdTLDaqNn83kA4Hq48UHXYxcIh+Nd8k/3w6lFuoK0wrOFiywjLx+0ur5jmmbecBGHc 1xdhAFHOwU0ETIByZAEQAKaF678T9wyH4wjTrV1Pz3cDEoSnV/0ZUrOT37p1dcGyj/IXq1x6 70HRVahAmk0sZpYc25PF9D5GPYHFWlNjuPU96rDndXB3hedmBRhLdC4bAXjI4DV+bmdVe+q/ IMnlZRaVlm9EiMCVAR6w13sReu7qXkW9r3RwY2AzXskp/tAe4BRKr1Zmbvi2nbnQ6epEC42r Rbx0B1EhjbIQZ5JHGk24iPT7LdBgnNmos5wYjzwNlkMQD5T0Ydzhk7J+UxwA5m46mOhRDC2r FV/A0gm5TLy8DXjv/Esc4gYnYai6SQqnUEVh5LuV8YCJBnijs+Tiw71x1icmn6xGI45EugJO gec+rLypYgpVp4x0HI5T88qBRYCkxH3Kg8Qo+EWNA9A4LRQ9DX8njona0gf0s03tocK8kBN6 6UoqqPtHBnc4eMgBymCflK12eKfd2YYxnyg9cZazWA5VslvTxpm76hbg5oiAEH/Vg/8MxHyA nPhfrgwyPrmJEcVBafdspJnYQxBYNco2LFPIhlOvWh8r4at+s+M3Lb26oUTczlgdW1Sf3SDA 77BMRnF0FQyE+7AzV79MBN4ykiqaezQxtaF1Fy/tvkhffSo8u+dwG0EgJh+te38gTcISVr0G IPplLz6YhjrbHrPRF1CN5UuL9DBGjxuN35RLNVEfta6RUFlR6NctTjvrABEBAAHCwWUEGAEC AA8FAkyAcmQCGwwFCRLMAwAACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjSrHA/+KzAKvTxRhA9MWNLxIyJ7S5uJ16gs T3oCjZrBKGEhKMOGX4O0GA6VOEryO7QRCCYah3oxSG38IAnNeiwJXgU9Bzkk85UGbPEd7HGF /VSeHCQwWou6jqUDTSDvn9YhNTdG0KXPM74aC+xr2Zow1O2mhXihgWKD0Dw+0LYPnUOsQ0KO FxHXXYHmRrS1OZPU59BLvc+TRhIhafSHKLwbXK+6ckkxBx6h8z5ccpG0Qs4bFhdFYnFrEieD LoGmnE2YLhdV6swJ9VNCS6pLiEohT3fm7aXm15tZOIyzMZhHRSAPblXxQ0ZSWjq8oRrcYNFx c4W1URpAkBCOYJoXvQfD5L3lqAl8TCqDUzYxhH/tJhbDdHrqHH767jaDaTB1+Talp/2AMKwc XNOdiklGxbmHVG6YGl6g8Lrbsu9NZEI4yLlHzuikthJWgz+3vZhVGyNlt+HNIoF6CjDL2omu 5cEq4RDHM44QqPk6l7O0pUvN1mT4B+S1b08RKpqm/ff015E37HNV/piIvJlxGAYz8PSfuGCB 1thMYqlmgdhd9/BabGFbGGYHA6U4/T5zqU+f6xHy1SsAQZ1MSKlLwekBIT+4/cLRGqCHjnV0 q5H/T6a7t5mPkbzSrOLSo4puj+IToNjYyYIDBWzhlA19avOa+rvUjmHtD3sFN7cXWtkGoi8b uNcby4U= Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <4ce6b85e-d600-872d-2a78-d9203d8c8259@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 16:45:59 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87muwf4jq2.fsf@russet.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On 05/31/2018 02:07 PM, Phillip Lord wrote: > any reason why this can't be installed > on emacs-26? None that I know of. Will there be a 26.2, though? From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 01:57:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Paul Eggert Cc: Eli Barzilay , emacs-devel@gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , Phillip Lord , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, 20202-done@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 20202-done@debbugs.gnu.org id=D20202.15278181904546 (code D ref 20202); Fri, 01 Jun 2018 01:57:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jun 2018 01:56:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56427 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fOZIs-0001BA-7o for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 31 May 2018 21:56:30 -0400 Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:47759) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fOZIp-0001Av-Uz; Thu, 31 May 2018 21:56:28 -0400 Received: from pastel.home (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.7/8.14.1) with ESMTP id w511ucw0006277; Thu, 31 May 2018 21:56:38 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id B68D5652F0; Thu, 31 May 2018 21:56:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <85133880-5ae1-223a-50e6-4646adbf8052@cs.ucla.edu> <831sdyanny.fsf@gnu.org> <87muwf4jq2.fsf@russet.org.uk> <4ce6b85e-d600-872d-2a78-d9203d8c8259@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 21:56:14 -0400 In-Reply-To: <4ce6b85e-d600-872d-2a78-d9203d8c8259@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Thu, 31 May 2018 16:45:59 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.1 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 3 Rules triggered GEN_SPAM_FEATRE=0.1, EDT_SA_DN_PASS=0, RV6298=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <6298> : inlines <6672> : streams <1788383> : uri <2650561> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > None that I know of. Will there be a 26.2, though? I'd be surprised if we don't need to make a 26.2 before 27.1. Stefan From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 07:05:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Paul Eggert Cc: eli@barzilay.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.152783669312700 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 01 Jun 2018 07:05:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jun 2018 07:04:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56575 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fOe7I-0003Im-Pe for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 03:04:53 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:33378) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fOe7H-0003IY-ET for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 03:04:51 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fOe7B-0003tl-FY for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 03:04:46 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:36285) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fOe75-0003jF-2x; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 03:04:39 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3765 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1fOe74-0000Bq-DI; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 03:04:38 -0400 Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 10:04:38 +0300 Message-Id: <836033gf7d.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <4ce6b85e-d600-872d-2a78-d9203d8c8259@cs.ucla.edu> (message from Paul Eggert on Thu, 31 May 2018 16:45:59 -0700) References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <85133880-5ae1-223a-50e6-4646adbf8052@cs.ucla.edu> <831sdyanny.fsf@gnu.org> <87muwf4jq2.fsf@russet.org.uk> <4ce6b85e-d600-872d-2a78-d9203d8c8259@cs.ucla.edu> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, > 20202-done@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, > Eli Barzilay > From: Paul Eggert > Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 16:45:59 -0700 > > On 05/31/2018 02:07 PM, Phillip Lord wrote: > > any reason why this can't be installed > > on emacs-26? > > None that I know of. Will there be a 26.2, though? Yes, I'm quite sure it will be. So if we want this change backported to Emacs 26.2, we can do that now. From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness Resent-From: Paul Eggert Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 14:10:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: eli@barzilay.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.15278621464746 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 01 Jun 2018 14:10:01 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jun 2018 14:09:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58087 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fOkjq-0001ET-J5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 10:09:06 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:36568) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fOkjo-0001Dw-KN; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 10:09:05 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD558160729; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 07:08:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id KDmbIVniZbOE; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 07:08:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id F006D160725; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 07:08:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id RLcHIvhvs_f4; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 07:08:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [47.154.30.119]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 520B61606C8; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 07:08:57 -0700 (PDT) References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <85133880-5ae1-223a-50e6-4646adbf8052@cs.ucla.edu> <831sdyanny.fsf@gnu.org> <87muwf4jq2.fsf@russet.org.uk> <4ce6b85e-d600-872d-2a78-d9203d8c8259@cs.ucla.edu> <836033gf7d.fsf@gnu.org> From: Paul Eggert Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=eggert@cs.ucla.edu; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBEyAcmQBEADAAyH2xoTu7ppG5D3a8FMZEon74dCvc4+q1XA2J2tBy2pwaTqfhpxxdGA9 Jj50UJ3PD4bSUEgN8tLZ0san47l5XTAFLi2456ciSl5m8sKaHlGdt9XmAAtmXqeZVIYX/UFS 96fDzf4xhEmm/y7LbYEPQdUdxu47xA5KhTYp5bltF3WYDz1Ygd7gx07Auwp7iw7eNvnoDTAl KAl8KYDZzbDNCQGEbpY3efZIvPdeI+FWQN4W+kghy+P6au6PrIIhYraeua7XDdb2LS1en3Ss mE3QjqfRqI/A2ue8JMwsvXe/WK38Ezs6x74iTaqI3AFH6ilAhDqpMnd/msSESNFt76DiO1ZK QMr9amVPknjfPmJISqdhgB1DlEdw34sROf6V8mZw0xfqT6PKE46LcFefzs0kbg4GORf8vjG2 Sf1tk5eU8MBiyN/bZ03bKNjNYMpODDQQwuP84kYLkX2wBxxMAhBxwbDVZudzxDZJ1C2VXujC OJVxq2kljBM9ETYuUGqd75AW2LXrLw6+MuIsHFAYAgRr7+KcwDgBAfwhPBYX34nSSiHlmLC+ KaHLeCLF5ZI2vKm3HEeCTtlOg7xZEONgwzL+fdKo+D6SoC8RRxJKs8a3sVfI4t6CnrQzvJbB n6gxdgCu5i29J1QCYrCYvql2UyFPAK+do99/1jOXT4m2836j1wARAQABzSBQYXVsIEVnZ2Vy dCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1PsLBfgQTAQIAKAUCTIByZAIbAwUJEswDAAYLCQgHAwIG FQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjRRGw/+Ij03dhYfYl/gXVRiuzV1gGrbHk+t nfrI/C7fAeoFzQ5tVgVinShaPkZo0HTPf18x6IDEdAiO8Mqo1yp0CtHmzGMCJ50o4Grgfjlr 6g/+vtEOKbhleszN2XpJvpwM2QgGvn/laTLUu8PH9aRWTs7qJJZKKKAb4sxYc92FehPu6FOD 0dDiyhlDAq4lOV2mdBpzQbiojoZzQLMQwjpgCTK2572eK9EOEQySUThXrSIz6ASenp4NYTFH s9tuJQvXk9gZDdPSl3bp+47dGxlxEWLpBIM7zIONw4ks4azgT8nvDZxA5IZHtvqBlJLBObYY 0Le61Wp0y3TlBDh2qdK8eYL426W4scEMSuig5gb8OAtQiBW6k2sGUxxeiv8ovWu8YAZgKJfu oWI+uRnMEddruY8JsoM54KaKvZikkKs2bg1ndtLVzHpJ6qFZC7QVjeHUh6/BmgvdjWPZYFTt N+KA9CWX3GQKKgN3uu988yznD7LnB98T4EUH1HA/GnfBqMV1gpzTvPc4qVQinCmIkEFp83zl +G5fCjJJ3W7ivzCnYo4KhKLpFUm97okTKR2LW3xZzEW4cLSWO387MTK3CzDOx5qe6s4a91Zu ZM/j/TQdTLDaqNn83kA4Hq48UHXYxcIh+Nd8k/3w6lFuoK0wrOFiywjLx+0ur5jmmbecBGHc 1xdhAFHOwU0ETIByZAEQAKaF678T9wyH4wjTrV1Pz3cDEoSnV/0ZUrOT37p1dcGyj/IXq1x6 70HRVahAmk0sZpYc25PF9D5GPYHFWlNjuPU96rDndXB3hedmBRhLdC4bAXjI4DV+bmdVe+q/ IMnlZRaVlm9EiMCVAR6w13sReu7qXkW9r3RwY2AzXskp/tAe4BRKr1Zmbvi2nbnQ6epEC42r Rbx0B1EhjbIQZ5JHGk24iPT7LdBgnNmos5wYjzwNlkMQD5T0Ydzhk7J+UxwA5m46mOhRDC2r FV/A0gm5TLy8DXjv/Esc4gYnYai6SQqnUEVh5LuV8YCJBnijs+Tiw71x1icmn6xGI45EugJO gec+rLypYgpVp4x0HI5T88qBRYCkxH3Kg8Qo+EWNA9A4LRQ9DX8njona0gf0s03tocK8kBN6 6UoqqPtHBnc4eMgBymCflK12eKfd2YYxnyg9cZazWA5VslvTxpm76hbg5oiAEH/Vg/8MxHyA nPhfrgwyPrmJEcVBafdspJnYQxBYNco2LFPIhlOvWh8r4at+s+M3Lb26oUTczlgdW1Sf3SDA 77BMRnF0FQyE+7AzV79MBN4ykiqaezQxtaF1Fy/tvkhffSo8u+dwG0EgJh+te38gTcISVr0G IPplLz6YhjrbHrPRF1CN5UuL9DBGjxuN35RLNVEfta6RUFlR6NctTjvrABEBAAHCwWUEGAEC AA8FAkyAcmQCGwwFCRLMAwAACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjSrHA/+KzAKvTxRhA9MWNLxIyJ7S5uJ16gs T3oCjZrBKGEhKMOGX4O0GA6VOEryO7QRCCYah3oxSG38IAnNeiwJXgU9Bzkk85UGbPEd7HGF /VSeHCQwWou6jqUDTSDvn9YhNTdG0KXPM74aC+xr2Zow1O2mhXihgWKD0Dw+0LYPnUOsQ0KO FxHXXYHmRrS1OZPU59BLvc+TRhIhafSHKLwbXK+6ckkxBx6h8z5ccpG0Qs4bFhdFYnFrEieD LoGmnE2YLhdV6swJ9VNCS6pLiEohT3fm7aXm15tZOIyzMZhHRSAPblXxQ0ZSWjq8oRrcYNFx c4W1URpAkBCOYJoXvQfD5L3lqAl8TCqDUzYxhH/tJhbDdHrqHH767jaDaTB1+Talp/2AMKwc XNOdiklGxbmHVG6YGl6g8Lrbsu9NZEI4yLlHzuikthJWgz+3vZhVGyNlt+HNIoF6CjDL2omu 5cEq4RDHM44QqPk6l7O0pUvN1mT4B+S1b08RKpqm/ff015E37HNV/piIvJlxGAYz8PSfuGCB 1thMYqlmgdhd9/BabGFbGGYHA6U4/T5zqU+f6xHy1SsAQZ1MSKlLwekBIT+4/cLRGqCHjnV0 q5H/T6a7t5mPkbzSrOLSo4puj+IToNjYyYIDBWzhlA19avOa+rvUjmHtD3sFN7cXWtkGoi8b uNcby4U= Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <9010057b-aa05-9074-49f1-aeab26cfc7cb@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 07:08:56 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <836033gf7d.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii wrote: > if we want this change backported to Emacs 26.2, we can do that now. Phillip prefers that, and I do too. Any objections? From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 14:16:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Paul Eggert Cc: eli@barzilay.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.15278625305565 (code B ref 20202); Fri, 01 Jun 2018 14:16:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jun 2018 14:15:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58106 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fOkpy-0001Re-PA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 10:15:30 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:47456) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fOkpx-0001RN-Mc for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 10:15:25 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fOkpp-0003Sn-GZ for 20202@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 10:15:20 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:54518) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fOkop-0002Du-9E; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 10:14:15 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4658 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1fOkoo-0002WB-8l; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 10:14:15 -0400 Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 17:14:12 +0300 Message-Id: <837enifvbf.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <9010057b-aa05-9074-49f1-aeab26cfc7cb@cs.ucla.edu> (message from Paul Eggert on Fri, 1 Jun 2018 07:08:56 -0700) References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <85133880-5ae1-223a-50e6-4646adbf8052@cs.ucla.edu> <831sdyanny.fsf@gnu.org> <87muwf4jq2.fsf@russet.org.uk> <4ce6b85e-d600-872d-2a78-d9203d8c8259@cs.ucla.edu> <836033gf7d.fsf@gnu.org> <9010057b-aa05-9074-49f1-aeab26cfc7cb@cs.ucla.edu> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > Cc: eli@barzilay.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, > phillip.lord@russet.org.uk, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca > From: Paul Eggert > Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 07:08:56 -0700 > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > if we want this change backported to Emacs 26.2, we can do that now. > > Phillip prefers that, and I do too. Any objections? Not from me. Thanks. From unknown Tue Aug 19 03:00:18 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#20202: EMACS=t Joy and Happiness Resent-From: Paul Eggert Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2018 20:55:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: eli@barzilay.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Received: via spool by 20202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20202.152900966114582 (code B ref 20202); Thu, 14 Jun 2018 20:55:02 +0000 Received: (at 20202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jun 2018 20:54:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48579 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fTZG8-0003n6-Kb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2018 16:54:20 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:39916) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fTZG5-0003mp-Iu; Thu, 14 Jun 2018 16:54:18 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72D511605B7; Thu, 14 Jun 2018 13:54:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id Zq-GRcJzmTff; Thu, 14 Jun 2018 13:54:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B34BE160980; Thu, 14 Jun 2018 13:54:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id Y0UhjalAlX3T; Thu, 14 Jun 2018 13:54:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 91F0C1605B7; Thu, 14 Jun 2018 13:54:10 -0700 (PDT) References: <87tvqw4w8s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <85133880-5ae1-223a-50e6-4646adbf8052@cs.ucla.edu> <831sdyanny.fsf@gnu.org> <87muwf4jq2.fsf@russet.org.uk> <4ce6b85e-d600-872d-2a78-d9203d8c8259@cs.ucla.edu> <836033gf7d.fsf@gnu.org> <9010057b-aa05-9074-49f1-aeab26cfc7cb@cs.ucla.edu> <837enifvbf.fsf@gnu.org> From: Paul Eggert Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=eggert@cs.ucla.edu; 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Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <837enifvbf.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On 06/01/2018 07:14 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>> if we want this change backported to Emacs 26.2, we can do that now. >> Phillip prefers that, and I do too. Any objections? > Not from me. > > Thanks. You're welcome. I installed that patch into the emacs-26 branch.