GNU bug report logs - #20183
24.4.91; No resize handle to adjust width of Emacs windows

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: nljlistbox2 <at> gmail.com (N. Jackson)
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 24.4.91; No resize handle to adjust width of Emacs windows
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 16:15:11 -0300

There are resize handles to adjust the height and width of an Emacs
frame; and there is a resize handle to adjust the height of an Emacs
window (when there is more than one window tiled vertically
(above/below) on a frame); but there is _no_ resize handle to adjust the
width of an Emacs window (when there is more than one window tiled
horizontally (side-by-side) on a frame.

This can be observed from emacs -Q.

I'm not sure if this is a bug or a missing feature.


===

In GNU Emacs 24.4.91.1 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.14.9)
 of 2015-03-10 on moondust
Windowing system distributor `Fedora Project', version 11.0.11603000
System Description:	Fedora release 21 (Twenty One)

Configured using:
 `configure --prefix=/home/nlj/local/ --enable-checking 'CFLAGS=-O0 -g3
 -ggdb''

Important settings:
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  value of $LC_NUMERIC: en_DK.utf8
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Recent messages:
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Message #8 received at 20183 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: nljlistbox2 <at> gmail.com (N. Jackson)
Cc: 20183 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#20183: 24.4.91;
 No resize handle to adjust width of Emacs windows
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 21:36:01 +0200

> From: nljlistbox2 <at> gmail.com (N. Jackson)
> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 16:15:11 -0300
> 
> but there is _no_ resize handle to adjust the width of an Emacs
> window (when there is more than one window tiled horizontally
> (side-by-side) on a frame.

Yes, there is: locate the mouse pointer above the place where the two
mode lines of the two adjacent windows meet.

Message #11 received at 20183 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: nljlistbox2 <at> gmail.com, 20183 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#20183: 24.4.91; No resize handle to adjust width of Emacs
 windows
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 12:48:37 -0700 (PDT)

Actually, there is. But it is carefully hidden. ;-)

In the mode line there is a tiny vertical line separating the mode lines of the two side-by-side windows. That's the handle - you can drag it left & right.

If you want a more visible and substantial divider then you can customize
`default-frame-alist' to have it include an entry such as this:

(right-divider-width . 3)

IOW, you can set frame parameter `right-divider-width' to make the divider
appear (!) and offer an affordance (handle) that you can drag.

For the window bottom, you can drag the mode line.  And for this there
is also frame parameter `bottom-divider-width'.

FWIW, Emacs used to have a more visible handle for dragging left-right.
But its GUI was improved (long ago, now), and it was removed in the
process.

FWIW2, I think the default values of `right-divider-width' and
`bottom-divider-width' should be non-zero - to make these dividers
visible & usable.  The default values of zero make dragging left-right
non-obvious.  At least you can drag the mode line (i.e., even with a
zero value for `bottom-divider-width').

Another problem is discovery of these frame parameters (there are no
user options for these things, other than the `*-frame-alist' options).

And even if they were made aware of these frame parameters, my guess
is that many users would not know how to customize Emacs to set them.

HTH.

> There are resize handles to adjust the height and width of an Emacs
> frame; and there is a resize handle to adjust the height of an Emacs
> window (when there is more than one window tiled vertically
> (above/below) on a frame); but there is _no_ resize handle to adjust the
> width of an Emacs window (when there is more than one window tiled
> horizontally (side-by-side) on a frame.
> 
> This can be observed from emacs -Q.
> 
> I'm not sure if this is a bug or a missing feature.

Message #14 received at 20183 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: nljlistbox2 <at> gmail.com (N. Jackson)
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 20183 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#20183: 24.4.91;
 No resize handle to adjust width of Emacs windows
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 17:57:58 -0300

At 16:36 -0300 on Monday 2015-03-23, Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> From: nljlistbox2 <at> gmail.com (N. Jackson)
>> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 16:15:11 -0300
>> 
>> but there is _no_ resize handle to adjust the width of an Emacs
>> window (when there is more than one window tiled horizontally
>> (side-by-side) on a frame.
>
> Yes, there is: locate the mouse pointer above the place where the two
> mode lines of the two adjacent windows meet.

Ah! There it is. (I think I maybe knew that once.)

I think it might be worth documenting this in the manual. Perhaps in
Section 20.5 Deleting and Rearranging Windows, which might be better
named "Deleting, Rearranging, and Resizing Windows".

Also a search for "resize" in the manual doesn't currently find this
section even though it is where the (keyboard-based) resizing commands are
documented.

On the other hand, this functionality is not something a user would
expect to have to look up in the manual. Resizing things on screen by
dragging a handle provided when placing the mouse cursor over their
boundary is a very commonplace, almost universal idiom; it would be nice
if Emacs could do this by default.

Message #17 received at 20183 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: martin rudalics <rudalics <at> gmx.at>
To: "N. Jackson" <nljlistbox2 <at> gmail.com>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 20183 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#20183: 24.4.91; No resize handle to adjust width of Emacs
 windows
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2015 15:22:04 +0200

> I think it might be worth documenting this in the manual. Perhaps in
> Section 20.5 Deleting and Rearranging Windows, which might be better
> named "Deleting, Rearranging, and Resizing Windows".

It's called "Deleting and Resizing Windows" now.

> Also a search for "resize" in the manual doesn't currently find this
> section even though it is where the (keyboard-based) resizing commands are
> documented.

A few concept indices are there now.

> On the other hand, this functionality is not something a user would
> expect to have to look up in the manual. Resizing things on screen by
> dragging a handle provided when placing the mouse cursor over their
> boundary is a very commonplace, almost universal idiom; it would be nice
> if Emacs could do this by default.

I'm afraid that some users would deeply deplore the loss of sacred
screen estate then.

martin

Message #20 received at 20183 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: martin rudalics <rudalics <at> gmx.at>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>, nljlistbox2 <at> gmail.com, 
 20183 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#20183: 24.4.91; No resize handle to adjust width of Emacs
 windows
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2015 15:22:15 +0200

> FWIW2, I think the default values of `right-divider-width' and
> `bottom-divider-width' should be non-zero - to make these dividers
> visible & usable.

Then people will complain that valuable display space gets wasted.

> Another problem is discovery of these frame parameters (there are no
> user options for these things, other than the `*-frame-alist' options).

I now implemented a minor mode called `window-divider-mode' and added a
menu entry to make window dividers more discoverable.

> And even if they were made aware of these frame parameters, my guess
> is that many users would not know how to customize Emacs to set them.

You're probably right.

martin

Message #23 received at 20183 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: martin rudalics <rudalics <at> gmx.at>, "N. Jackson" <nljlistbox2 <at> gmail.com>,
 Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 20183 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#20183: 24.4.91; No resize handle to adjust width of Emacs
 windows
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 08:32:11 -0700 (PDT)

>  > On the other hand, this functionality is not something a user
>  > would expect to have to look up in the manual. Resizing things on
>  > screen by dragging a handle provided when placing the mouse cursor
>  > over their boundary is a very commonplace, almost universal idiom;
>  > it would be nice if Emacs could do this by default.
> 
> I'm afraid that some users would deeply deplore the loss of sacred
> screen estate then.

They can always customize Emacs, to get back those pixels.  The problem
of not being aware of such possibilities is a bigger problem, IMHO.

And I agree with N. Jackson that this particular affordance
is something that is quite common and thus often expected.

[FWIW, I've long been in favor of giving :help-echo or other pop-up
help for UI elements a menu item that takes users to either the doc
about customizing that element or directly to an appropriate Customize
buffer.  In this case, it would mean (a) we show the handle by default
and (b) we provide mouseover help with a link that gives you access to
the doc you added about this - doc that describes the UI element and
tells you how to customize it.]

Message #26 received at 20183 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: martin rudalics <rudalics <at> gmx.at>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>, "N. Jackson" <nljlistbox2 <at> gmail.com>,
 Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 20183 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#20183: 24.4.91; No resize handle to adjust width of Emacs
 windows
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2015 18:14:58 +0200

> They can always customize Emacs, to get back those pixels.  The problem
> of not being aware of such possibilities is a bigger problem, IMHO.
>
> And I agree with N. Jackson that this particular affordance
> is something that is quite common and thus often expected.

That's why I wrote it.  But it was never on our TODO list.  Maybe it is
quite common for Windows users only.  And so far nobody was interested
in porting it to the ns build.

> [FWIW, I've long been in favor of giving :help-echo or other pop-up
> help for UI elements a menu item that takes users to either the doc
> about customizing that element or directly to an appropriate Customize
> buffer.  In this case, it would mean (a) we show the handle by default
> and (b) we provide mouseover help with a link that gives you access to
> the doc you added about this - doc that describes the UI element and
> tells you how to customize it.]

There seems to be a technical problem with this.  Pop-up help disappears
here as soon as I move the mouse over it.

martin

Message #29 received at 20183 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: martin rudalics <rudalics <at> gmx.at>, "N. Jackson" <nljlistbox2 <at> gmail.com>,
 Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 20183 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#20183: 24.4.91; No resize handle to adjust width of Emacs
 windows
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 09:49:51 -0700 (PDT)

> There seems to be a technical problem with this.  Pop-up help
> disappears here as soon as I move the mouse over it.

Oh, right; my bad.  Something more than :help-echo is needed for
such a feature, no doubt.  Perhaps a key binding.  Or a key
binding that acts only when a tooltip is shown (but that won't
help if `tooltip-mode' is turned off).

The general idea would be to provide help on Emacs UI components
- whatever a user sees and might have questions about.  How we
might best do that, I don't know.

Long ago I wrote a command, `help-on-click/key' that goes in
that direction somewhat, but it doesn't handle anything Emacs
displays that Lisp cannot perceive or interact with.  And I
haven't bothered to update it since 1999 (!), so it obviously
does not reflect the many UI thingies added since then.

You access this command using `C-h RET' or via the Help menu.
You are then prompted to "Click mouse on something or type a
key sequence".  From the doc string:

 You can do any of the following:

    type a key sequence (e.g. `C-M-s')
    choose a menu item (e.g. [menu-bar files open-file])
    click on a scroll bar
    click on the mode line
    click in the minibuffer
    click on an Emacs-related name in a buffer: apropos is called
    click anywhere else in a buffer: its modes are described

 Help is generally provided using `describe-key' and the Emacs online
 manual (via `Info-goto-emacs-key-command-node').  If no entry is found
 in the index of the Emacs manual, then the manual is searched from the
 beginning for literal occurrences of KEY.

 If you click on a name in a buffer, then `apropos-documentation' and
 `apropos' are used to find information on the name.  These functions
 are not used when you do something besides click on a name.

 If you click elsewhere in a buffer other than the minibuffer, then
 `describe-mode' is used to describe the buffer's current mode(s).

Message #34 received at 20183-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: martin rudalics <rudalics <at> gmx.at>
To: "N. Jackson" <nljlistbox2 <at> gmail.com>, 20183-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#20183: 24.4.91; No resize handle to adjust width of Emacs
 windows
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2015 13:08:41 +0200

Version: 25.1

Bug closed.

Thanks for the report, martin

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