From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Mar 18 11:09:01 2015 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Mar 2015 15:09:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51761 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YYFae-0002ii-VQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 11:09:01 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:36427) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YYFab-0002iZ-J5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 11:08:58 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YYFaa-0007Lv-Ac for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 11:08:57 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:52067) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YYFaa-0007Lp-7p for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 11:08:56 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38149) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YYFaY-0002KY-RT for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 11:08:56 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YYFaV-0007L0-Lg for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 11:08:54 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:32511) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YYFaV-0007Ko-FL for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 11:08:51 -0400 Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id t2IF8ni4019713 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 15:08:50 GMT Received: from userz7022.oracle.com (userz7022.oracle.com [156.151.31.86]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id t2IF8mh0015547 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 15:08:49 GMT Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by userz7022.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id t2IF8mgP016946 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 15:08:48 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 08:08:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 25.0.50; Emacs manual typos for key bindings X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) One question is what is the conventional way to write a modifier followed by a (possibly pseudo) function key in the doc (manuals, doc strings). Do we write `' or `S-'? Or do we use both conventions, and if so, are they interchangeable (same meaning)? `kbd' accepts both: (kbd "") and (kbd "S-"), and the effect when binding such keys seems to be the same. Another question is about whether, aside from special cases (which are already called out, AFAIK), function-key names should be written using uppercase. For example, is `" correct, or should it be `" (or `S-')? In the manual, it seems that the more common syntax is `S-<...>', not `'. However, in doc strings the opposite seems to be true (?). As for the possible typos I came across in the Emacs manual: 1. Node `View Mode': >. Presumably should be S-. 2. Node `Org Mode': . Should be S-, I'm guessing - or possibly S-, depending on which key is meant. 3. Node `Setting Mark': S-. Should be S-, I think. 4. Node `Indentation Commands': S-, S-. Should be S-, S-. (Also: and should be and .) 5. Node `Setting Mark': S-. Should be S-. 6. Node `User Input': M- should be M-. 7. Node `Moving Point': C-, M-, C-, M- should be C-, M-, C-, M-. 8. Node `Minibuffer History': should presumably be M-n. (Also, and should be and . 9. Node `Basic Indent': should be just C-j. 10. Node `Custom C Indent': should be just C-M-q. 11. Node `Term Mode: should be just C-c. 12. There is also inconsistency in whether such keys are enclosed in quotes. Node `Rmail Scrolling' has both notations mixed even in the same sentence (e.g., , but `S-'): Since the most common thing to do while reading a message is to scroll through it by screenfuls, Rmail makes and (or `S-') do the same as `C-v' (`scroll-up-command') and `M-v' (`scroll-down-command') respectively. Likewise, node `Help Mode': ( vs `S- instead of . In *Help* buffers (e.g. from `C-h k') they are written using lowercase. If some of these look right to you then please try searching for the corrections I proposed, which I think are much more commonly employed. For example, if you think that is correct, then search also for . You will find, I think, that what I proposed is used more consistently. But there does seem to be a general disconnect between what is shown in *Help* by the help commands and what is shown in the manual by Info. Help uses whereas the manual uses S-. To me, we should use the same notation for both, and I would vote for the manual to fit what help uses. That is, I would suggest that we (consistently) use what `key-description' returns. So we would use `', for example, not `S-'. (key-description (kbd "")) ; =3D> (key-description (kbd "S-")) ; =3D> And `S-', not `'. But presumably is a different function key from , and the former should never be used to represent the latter. (key-description (kbd "")) ; =3D> (key-description (kbd "S-")) ; =3D> In GNU Emacs 25.0.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2014-10-20 on LEG570 Bzr revision: 118168 rgm@gnu.org-20141020195941-icp42t8ttcnud09g Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --enable-checking=3Dyes,glyphs CPPFLAGS=3D-DGLYPH_DEBUG=3D1' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Mar 18 13:34:31 2015 Received: (at 20135) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Mar 2015 17:34:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51851 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YYHrT-0007sO-43 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 13:34:31 -0400 Received: from mtaout26.012.net.il ([80.179.55.182]:40616) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YYHrQ-0007sE-6c for 20135@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 13:34:29 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout26.012.net.il by mtaout26.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NLF00A004MB3R00@mtaout26.012.net.il> for 20135@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 19:35:13 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by mtaout26.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NLF0025S4UP2F80@mtaout26.012.net.il>; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 19:35:13 +0200 (IST) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 19:34:17 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#20135: 25.0.50; Emacs manual typos for key bindings In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Drew Adams Message-id: <83619yxl9i.fsf@gnu.org> References: X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20135 Cc: 20135@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 08:08:47 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > > Do we write `' or `S-'? Or do we use both conventions, and if > so, are they interchangeable (same meaning)? S- is the right way for the manuals. > Another question is about whether, aside from special cases (which are > already called out, AFAIK), function-key names should be written using > uppercase. For example, is `" correct, or should it be > `" (or `S-')? We've been though this before, and AFAIK the manual was fixed to be consistent at that time. > In the manual, it seems that the more common syntax is `S-<...>', not > `'. However, in doc strings the opposite seems to be true (?). In the doc strings, that's substitution, right? It's not that these are written verbatim in the doc string, right? If so, they are formatted how the relevant APIs (key-description, I believe) do it. > 1. Node `View Mode': >. Presumably should be S-. Fixed. > 2. Node `Org Mode': . Should be S-, I'm guessing - or > possibly S-, depending on which key is meant. Fixed. > 3. Node `Setting Mark': S-. Should be S-, I think. > > 4. Node `Indentation Commands': S-, S-. Should be > S-, S-. (Also: and should be and > .) > > 5. Node `Setting Mark': S-. Should be S-. > > 6. Node `User Input': M- should be M-. > > 7. Node `Moving Point': C-, M-, C-, M- should > be C-, M-, C-, M-. No, uppercase is OK here, for consistency with TAB, SPC, etc. Again, we've been through this before. > 8. Node `Minibuffer History': should presumably be M-n. No, it should be `M-n' (with the quotes). Fixed. > (Also, and should be and . No, that's OK. > 9. Node `Basic Indent': should be just C-j. Should be `C-j'; fixed. > 10. Node `Custom C Indent': should be just C-M-q. Again, `C-M-q'; fixed. > 11. Node `Term Mode: should be just C-c. `C-c'; fixed. > 12. There is also inconsistency in whether such keys are enclosed in > quotes. Node `Rmail Scrolling' has both notations mixed even in the > same sentence (e.g., , but `S-'): That's OK: a single key can omit the quotes; a sequence should not. > 13. I wonder too about the function keys being written with uppercase: > instead of . In *Help* buffers (e.g. from `C-h k') they are > written using lowercase. Again, the manuals are consistent: all named keys are uppercased. If we want the doc strings to follow suit, the relevant primitives should be changed to follow suit. > For example, if you think that is correct, then search also for > . You will find, I think, that what I proposed is used more > consistently. I did that in the past, and I don't think we have any inconsistencies left. Feel free to point out any you find. > But there does seem to be a general disconnect between what is shown in > *Help* by the help commands and what is shown in the manual by Info. > Help uses whereas the manual uses S-. > > To me, we should use the same notation for both, and I would vote for > the manual to fit what help uses. That is, I would suggest that we > (consistently) use what `key-description' returns. I won't object. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Mar 18 14:34:22 2015 Received: (at 20135) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Mar 2015 18:34:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51926 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YYInN-0000xY-9b for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 14:34:22 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:32973) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YYInL-0000xP-0Z for 20135@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 14:34:19 -0400 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id t2IIYGuI021137 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 18 Mar 2015 18:34:17 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t2IIYFEs028457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 18 Mar 2015 18:34:16 GMT Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t2IIYFh0026520; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 18:34:15 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <237c103a-4391-4792-adf3-e35b6d7fceff@default> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 11:34:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: bug#20135: 25.0.50; Emacs manual typos for key bindings References: <> <<83619yxl9i.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83619yxl9i.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20135 Cc: 20135@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) First, thanks for making the fixes you made. That helps. > > Do we write `' or `S-'? Or do we use both conventions, and i= f > > so, are they interchangeable (same meaning)? >=20 > S- is the right way for the manuals. Any chance to revisit that? Why use different notations for help and manual? Anyway, that is not the particular issue of this bug report. > > Another question is about whether, aside from special cases (which are > > already called out, AFAIK), function-key names should be written using > > uppercase. For example, is `" correct, or should it be > > `" (or `S-')? >=20 > We've been though this before, and AFAIK the manual was fixed to be > consistent at that time. I know nothing about whether that was the case. But it does not seem to be consistent now, at least. > > In the manual, it seems that the more common syntax is `S-<...>', not > > `'. However, in doc strings the opposite seems to be true (?). >=20 > In the doc strings, that's substitution, right? It's not that these > are written verbatim in the doc string, right? If so, they are > formatted how the relevant APIs (key-description, I believe) do it. Correct. It is generally `key-description' that provides help commands with their syntax. Which means that this is the syntax users will be likely to see most often. Which means that it might well be the syntax that they will try (mistakenly) to use when searching the manual, for instance. > > 1. Node `View Mode': >. Presumably should be S-. >=20 > Fixed. >=20 > > 2. Node `Org Mode': . Should be S-, I'm guessing - or > > possibly S-, depending on which key is meant. >=20 > Fixed. >=20 > > 3. Node `Setting Mark': S-. Should be S-, I think. > > > > 4. Node `Indentation Commands': S-, S-. Should be > > S-, S-. (Also: and should be and > > .) > > > > 5. Node `Setting Mark': S-. Should be S-. > > > > 6. Node `User Input': M- should be M-. > > > > 7. Node `Moving Point': C-, M-, C-, M- should > > be C-, M-, C-, M-. >=20 > No, uppercase is OK here, for consistency with TAB, SPC, etc. Again, > we've been through this before. I don't recall being through all of this before. But if you insist on this (I disagree, obviously), then you will likely want to "fix" the opposite occurrences - e.g. `' etc. that you will find throughout the manual. But why would you give as a reason being consistent with TAB, SPC, DEL, etc., which are *exceptions* (correponding to ASCII names)? Why not speak about consistency with the other function keys and pseudofunction keys - , , , etc.? Presumably, one of us is missing something wrt "consistency". Even in the same node, e.g. `Insert in Picture', you will find 3 different ways of writing such keys: `C-c ' (uppercase) `C-c ' (title case) `C-c ' (lowercase) Surely there is something to be fixed there, no? How does Emacs=20 itself refer to those keys? Ask it: `C-h k' gives this: `C-c ' `C-c ' `C-c ' > > 8. Node `Minibuffer History': should presumably be M-n. >=20 > No, it should be `M-n' (with the quotes). =20 Agreed, and that's what I meant. I left off the quotes because of the variability I mentioned wrt whether they are used in the manual. > Fixed. >=20 > > (Also, and should be and . >=20 > No, that's OK. See above. In that case, please "fix" all of the occurrences of and . And all of the other (pseudo)function keys - , , etc. There are *lots* of them. I disagree that uppercase should be used, but if you're really making such a call then please apply it consistently. > > 9. Node `Basic Indent': should be just C-j. >=20 > Should be `C-j'; fixed. >=20 > > 10. Node `Custom C Indent': should be just C-M-q. >=20 > Again, `C-M-q'; fixed. >=20 > > 11. Node `Term Mode: should be just C-c. >=20 > `C-c'; fixed. >=20 > > 12. There is also inconsistency in whether such keys are enclosed in > > quotes. Node `Rmail Scrolling' has both notations mixed even in the > > same sentence (e.g., , but `S-'): >=20 > That's OK: a single key can omit the quotes; a sequence should not. >=20 > > 13. I wonder too about the function keys being written with uppercase: > > instead of . In *Help* buffers (e.g. from `C-h k') they ar= e > > written using lowercase. >=20 > Again, the manuals are consistent: all named keys are uppercased. Dunno whether we are talking about "named keys" or about key sequences, or both. But in any case, that's not what I see - at all. And I disagree that they should be. (Just one opinion, but most of the manual seemes to agree with me, as does help.) > If we want the doc strings to follow suit, the relevant primitives should > be changed to follow suit. I don't want to change the doc strings to follow suit. I think the manual should reflect Emacs itself: its doc strings, help output, `key-description= '. When you interact with Emacs in any way (except for reading the manual), this is how it talks about its key sequences. > > For example, if you think that is correct, then search also for > > . You will find, I think, that what I proposed is used more > > consistently. >=20 > I did that in the past, and I don't think we have any inconsistencies > left. Feel free to point out any you find. See what I already wrote. Start with `Moving Point', for instance. And `Org Mode'. And `Minibuffer Edit'. And `Yes or No Prompts'. And `Scrolling'. And `Scroll Calendar'. And `Docview Navigation'. And `Insert in Picture'... You can search as well as I. Try `C-s `... Then move on to another pseudofunction key. And another... I think that you will find that, except perhaps for those that you "fixed" the last time around (I don't recall that time, but you apparently do), the vast majority are written using lowercase (as they are in help buffers). > > But there does seem to be a general disconnect between what is shown in > > *Help* by the help commands and what is shown in the manual by Info. > > Help uses whereas the manual uses S-. > > > > To me, we should use the same notation for both, and I would vote for > > the manual to fit what help uses. That is, I would suggest that we > > (consistently) use what `key-description' returns. >=20 > I won't object. That's good news. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Mar 18 15:12:59 2015 Received: (at 20135) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Mar 2015 19:13:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51933 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YYJOl-0001sQ-Dv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 15:12:59 -0400 Received: from mtaout25.012.net.il ([80.179.55.181]:47120) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YYJOi-0001sD-Py for 20135@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 15:12:58 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout25.012.net.il by mtaout25.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NLF005008UAFH00@mtaout25.012.net.il> for 20135@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 21:07:50 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by mtaout25.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NLF004F79517620@mtaout25.012.net.il>; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 21:07:50 +0200 (IST) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 21:12:46 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#20135: 25.0.50; Emacs manual typos for key bindings In-reply-to: <237c103a-4391-4792-adf3-e35b6d7fceff@default> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Drew Adams Message-id: <831tkmxgpd.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83619yxl9i.fsf@gnu.org> <237c103a-4391-4792-adf3-e35b6d7fceff@default> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20135 Cc: 20135@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 11:34:14 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 20135@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > Do we write `' or `S-'? Or do we use both conventions, and if > > > so, are they interchangeable (same meaning)? > > > > S- is the right way for the manuals. > > Any chance to revisit that? Not for the manuals: this is how makeinfo translates @kbd{S-@key{up}}, which is how one should write modified keys in Texinfo. > > > Another question is about whether, aside from special cases (which are > > > already called out, AFAIK), function-key names should be written using > > > uppercase. For example, is `" correct, or should it be > > > `" (or `S-')? > > > > We've been though this before, and AFAIK the manual was fixed to be > > consistent at that time. > > I know nothing about whether that was the case. But it does not seem to > be consistent now, at least. As I said, feel free to point out specific inconsistencies, keeping in mind that upper-case is the rule. > > In the doc strings, that's substitution, right? It's not that these > > are written verbatim in the doc string, right? If so, they are > > formatted how the relevant APIs (key-description, I believe) do it. > > Correct. It is generally `key-description' that provides help commands > with their syntax. > > Which means that this is the syntax users will be likely to see most > often. Which means that it might well be the syntax that they will > try (mistakenly) to use when searching the manual, for instance. Let's not reiterate old arguments. > But why would you give as a reason being consistent with TAB, SPC, DEL, > etc., which are *exceptions* (correponding to ASCII names)? > > Why not speak about consistency with the other function keys and > pseudofunction keys - , , , etc.? Where a key has a name printed on it, we should try using that name literally, except when there's some tradition to the contrary. > > If we want the doc strings to follow suit, the relevant primitives should > > be changed to follow suit. > > I don't want to change the doc strings to follow suit. I think the manual > should reflect Emacs itself: its doc strings, help output, `key-description'. Then you should be posting this bug report to the Texinfo list, because they will have to change the Info output. > You can search as well as I. Sorry, not enough time. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Mar 18 16:21:12 2015 Received: (at 20135) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Mar 2015 20:21:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51976 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YYKSl-0003bv-B5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 16:21:11 -0400 Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:40065) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YYKSh-0003bk-HD for 20135@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 16:21:08 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NLF00500C8CXA00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 20135@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 22:21:05 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NLF005COCJ5P570@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 22:21:05 +0200 (IST) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 22:20:58 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#20135: 25.0.50; Emacs manual typos for key bindings In-reply-to: <237c103a-4391-4792-adf3-e35b6d7fceff@default> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Drew Adams Message-id: <83twxivyz9.fsf@gnu.org> References: <237c103a-4391-4792-adf3-e35b6d7fceff@default> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20135 Cc: 20135@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 11:34:14 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 20135@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > 3. Node `Setting Mark': S-. Should be S-, I think. > > > > > > 4. Node `Indentation Commands': S-, S-. Should be > > > S-, S-. (Also: and should be and > > > .) > > > > > > 5. Node `Setting Mark': S-. Should be S-. > > > > > > 6. Node `User Input': M- should be M-. > > > > > > 7. Node `Moving Point': C-, M-, C-, M- should > > > be C-, M-, C-, M-. > > > > No, uppercase is OK here, for consistency with TAB, SPC, etc. Again, > > we've been through this before. > > I don't recall being through all of this before. I hope this will refresh your memory: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=17362#28 (and the ensuing debate). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 30 14:09:13 2016 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2016 18:09:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58273 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awZKL-00064x-H4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 14:09:13 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:59181) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awZKK-00064p-Nd for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 14:09:13 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.1.64.getinternet.no ([84.215.1.64] helo=mouse) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awZKI-0005EW-Jo for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 20:09:12 +0200 Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 20:09:10 +0200 Message-Id: <87d1p7ezp5.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #20135 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) close 20135 From unknown Sun Aug 17 06:58:57 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. 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