From unknown Sat Jun 21 10:30:21 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#19889 <19889@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#19889 <19889@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: tex-verbatim face: don't specify :family? Reply-To: bug#19889 <19889@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 17:30:21 +0000 retitle 19889 tex-verbatim face: don't specify :family? reassign 19889 emacs submitter 19889 Glenn Morris severity 19889 normal thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 17 15:39:50 2015 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Feb 2015 20:39:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46651 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YNovt-0007jr-FE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 15:39:49 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:45057 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YNovq-0007ji-O4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 15:39:47 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YNovp-0005Pc-S4; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 15:39:45 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: submit@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: tex-verbatim face: don't specify :family? X-Spook: 22nd SAS satellite imagery Gazprom CipherTAC-2000 X-Ran: zQ8'gR0~|(~RY`?kM^xkI;1Fb%_5bdX=miaHud~5XDoQNTg-m=M[JJK,w=);&^aCa!FS{9 X-Hue: black X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 15:39:45 -0500 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Package: emacs Version: 24.4 Severity: minor The tex-verbatim face is defined as '((t :family "courier")) Is this a good idea? AFAICS, it is the only face definition in Emacs that specifies a :family. It seems to cause problems on some systems, see: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=684797 For me on RHEL7, that faces looks poor (blocky/pixellated) compared to the other faces Emacs uses. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 17 22:44:51 2015 Received: (at 19889) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Feb 2015 03:44:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46834 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YNvZD-0003lE-2w for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 22:44:51 -0500 Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:42959) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YNvZB-0003l6-9g for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 22:44:49 -0500 Received: from pastel.home (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id t1I3ilBj019154; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 22:44:48 -0500 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 13DBD1E3C; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 22:44:30 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: Glenn Morris Subject: Re: bug#19889: tex-verbatim face: don't specify :family? Message-ID: References: Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 22:44:30 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Tue, 17 Feb 2015 15:39:45 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV5220=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9393 : core <5220> : inlines <2217> : streams <1392084> : uri <1858027> X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) > The tex-verbatim face is defined as > '((t :family "courier")) > Is this a good idea? I think/thought so. > AFAICS, it is the only face definition in Emacs that specifies a :family. There's also (defface Info-quoted '((t :family "courier")) "Face used for quoted elements.") > It seems to cause problems on some systems, see: > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=684797 > For me on RHEL7, that faces looks poor (blocky/pixellated) compared to > the other faces Emacs uses. Maybe we should improve face-font-family-alternatives so as to automatically find a better courier-like font? Maybe we also should define a standard/core face for this, which is then inherited by both tex-verbatim and Info-quoted. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 18 02:40:35 2015 Received: (at 19889) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Feb 2015 07:40:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46886 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YNzFK-0003dy-9k for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 02:40:34 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:58013 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YNzFH-0003dq-UX for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 02:40:32 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YNzFF-0002Lb-SI; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 02:40:29 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#19889: tex-verbatim face: don't specify :family? References: X-Spook: counter intelligence Rubin Juiliett Class Submarine X-Ran: :5o#NI2cY_QGr[z}M9cNRvO3Hker}i@1y,cnPyA)~c(='!n4YGxS|JZ*G>DTaqe:E]vh^4 X-Hue: red X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 02:40:29 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Tue, 17 Feb 2015 22:44:30 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Stefan Monnier wrote: > There's also > > (defface Info-quoted > '((t :family "courier")) > "Face used for quoted elements.") I see that's relatively new, and only in master. > Maybe we should improve face-font-family-alternatives so as to > automatically find a better courier-like font? > > Maybe we also should define a standard/core face for this, which is then > inherited by both tex-verbatim and Info-quoted. Maybe. FWIW tex-verbatim looks ok on Debian testing, but as I said not so good on RHEL7. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 18 09:36:25 2015 Received: (at 19889) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Feb 2015 14:36:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47084 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YO5jk-0006SZ-Mm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:36:25 -0500 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:30085) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YO5jg-0006SK-A6 for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:36:21 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ArsTAPOG1lTO+LI//2dsb2JhbABbgwaDX4VTwGUEAgKBDUQBAQEBAQF8hA0BBAFWIwULCw4mEhQYDSSIOAjOIwEBAQEGAQEBAQEdj3gHhCoFiiefS4FFIoICHIFuIIJzAQEB X-IPAS-Result: ArsTAPOG1lTO+LI//2dsb2JhbABbgwaDX4VTwGUEAgKBDUQBAQEBAQF8hA0BBAFWIwULCw4mEhQYDSSIOAjOIwEBAQEGAQEBAQEdj3gHhCoFiiefS4FFIoICHIFuIIJzAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.09,536,1418101200"; d="scan'208";a="110817309" Received: from 206-248-178-63.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([206.248.178.63]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 18 Feb 2015 09:36:12 -0500 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id B3ADE175C; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:35:53 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: Glenn Morris Subject: Re: bug#19889: tex-verbatim face: don't specify :family? Message-ID: References: Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:35:53 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Wed, 18 Feb 2015 02:40:29 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) > FWIW tex-verbatim looks ok on Debian testing, but as I said not so good > on RHEL7. I did see that, and as I said, this should be fixed by adding an appropriate replacement to face-font-family-alternatives. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 18 14:14:22 2015 Received: (at 19889) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Feb 2015 19:14:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48033 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YOA4j-0006J8-IL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:14:21 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:46221) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YOA4g-0006Iz-Nt for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:14:19 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YOA4f-0002Fu-Pm; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:14:17 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#19889: tex-verbatim face: don't specify :family? References: X-Spook: hackers Rubin plutonium MIT-LL Compsec FBI bullion X-Ran: skWe?62PX7h+wFhZN'wMMvWR^T\S@PgeQ (Stefan Monnier's message of "Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:35:53 -0500") Message-ID: <7kk2zfjaly.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Spam-Score: -4.7 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -4.7 (----) --=-=-= C-u C-x = tells me that the font Emacs picks for tex-verbatim is x:-adobe-courier-medium-r-normal--14-140-75-75-m-90-USO8859-1 (#x6D) So presumably the problem is that it picks an x font rather than an xft one. See attached image for how it looks clunky in info. (I don't normally use Emacs trunk or makeinfo 5, so haven't noticed this before.) Firefox just uses "Monospace" font. Gnome-terminal has "use the system fixed-with font". IIUC, fc-match tells me that monspace == DejaVu Sans Mono. I know little about fonts, but it seems suboptimal to me to try and specify a family for a handful of faces, since it's impossible to predict how it will look in conjunction with the user's other fonts. --=-=-= Content-Type: image/png Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=a.png Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAqIAAAJYCAIAAAA2ahPbAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAAAFzUkdC AK7OHOkAAAAgY0hSTQAAeiYAAICEAAD6AAAAgOgAAHUwAADqYAAAOpgAABdwnLpRPAAAAAZiS0dE AP8A/wD/oL2nkwAAAAlwSFlzAAAASAAAAEgARslrPgAAu4JJREFUeNrtnQeYFMX69UVBMrtcguRF SSvCn6ssEiRckkQFJcdLRpScQcIlCiggIElAol5BEJAkEgyA5F1gyZkFkSAKnwQBZb8DpX3H6a6a rp6e3dnd83v64Wl6eqsrvFWnqrtnzmOdJk7kxo0bN27cuCXK7TFWATdu3Lhx45Yot9B8+f6U+WJ1 6nDjxo0bN27cEs0GjafMc+PGjRs3bpR5bty4cePGjRtlnhs3bty4ceNGmefGjRs3bty4Uea5cePG jRs3bpR5bty4cePGjRtlnhs3bty4caPMc+PGjRs3btwSvcyPeG/grdOrvLaO/d/CRxOn/uenI5+L 0zz3nW2WF1Kk+e36mRtWTzVfvU3vTu9NHqJ16da9OyGpH6OXXj+x8vjuTz6a+86/mjWy/+fmK/pf 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[73.163.124.41]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id q5sm18538307qat.6.2015.02.18.12.51.49 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 18 Feb 2015 12:51:49 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Oteiza To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#19889: tex-verbatim face: don't specify :family? References: Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 15:51:48 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Tue, 17 Feb 2015 15:39:45 -0500") Message-ID: <878ufv2ba3.fsf@udel.edu> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Glenn Morris writes: > Package: emacs > Version: 24.4 > Severity: minor > > The tex-verbatim face is defined as > > '((t :family "courier")) > > Is this a good idea? > > AFAICS, it is the only face definition in Emacs that specifies a :family. Info-quoted also does this. Looking at `grep -iIR ':family "cou' *`, it looks like those are the only two. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 18 15:53:20 2015 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Feb 2015 20:53:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48064 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YOBcV-0000AJ-J3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 15:53:19 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:52726) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YOBcQ-0000A5-Bc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 15:53:18 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YOBcM-0007In-3j for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 15:53:14 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:50434) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YOBcM-0007Ii-1u for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 15:53:10 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54394) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YOBcL-0006mf-Bn for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 15:53:09 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YOBcG-0007Ep-3a for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 15:53:09 -0500 Received: from mail-qa0-f48.google.com ([209.85.216.48]:54235) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YOBcF-0007Ed-Vn for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 15:53:04 -0500 Received: by mail-qa0-f48.google.com with SMTP id dc16so2704211qab.7 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 12:53:03 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to :user-agent; bh=tgC/qrscpdyyRmWxDFrPu5dA8q8P9yYzaWfBW7Wrhyg=; b=elkJoqM8k/W7vmrO58SxVhxKryRhRB6kQmSvesJn06YX5E9dFyz26XNowLRx116CxO XTT6mdxl//o7ZcrdvEKNW7YguxCaEpT33GHEocQg+Nwh6bxWbhc0KxCqP4pes2CZLYlq X/pI8+0iqHDoUe+12iJM4i7qHcXGNzP24OhakZ/6cLaaNSeCpemN89iNUSbPZere5ZiQ hc1i2G10VWpRn2MBguSjTxUnwdE84LLtk8TDWw3h/iRx9+Sp3EVCsM1YLmPP7joQJBrP ybSotJWKUlL60E6m8cqJcLaSmqeVlKlhBgOjH5Wg/FKuVZXrHFuyjEpJOYyWk68/nqr1 Fj3g== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn7tXULpgGwK7oh52RHv8LVdkkXHilHpmBvz7d1uS1wIZy4zgufRY0PRZ6lCQuhn+i0pbnk X-Received: by 10.140.91.74 with SMTP id y68mr4050778qgd.90.1424292783431; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 12:53:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (c-73-163-124-41.hsd1.md.comcast.net. [73.163.124.41]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id m10sm18541419qat.7.2015.02.18.12.53.02 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 18 Feb 2015 12:53:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 15:53:02 -0500 From: Mark Oteiza To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#19889: tex-verbatim face: don't specify :family? Message-ID: <20150218205302.GA20971@holos> References: <878ufv2ba3.fsf@udel.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <878ufv2ba3.fsf@udel.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23+58 (385d7434c9d6) (2014-03-12) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) On 18/02/15 at 03:51pm, Mark Oteiza wrote: > Glenn Morris writes: > > AFAICS, it is the only face definition in Emacs that specifies a :family. > > Info-quoted also does this. > > Looking at `grep -iIR ':family "cou' *`, it looks like those are the > only two. I should have read ahead, sorry. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 18 20:55:25 2015 Received: (at 19889) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Feb 2015 01:55:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48239 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YOGKq-0007B6-QX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 20:55:25 -0500 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:13718) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YOGKo-0007Aw-EP for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 20:55:23 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ArsTAPOG1lTO+LI//2dsb2JhbABbgwaDX4VTwGUEAgKBDUQBAQEBAQF8hA0BBAFWIwULCw4mEhQYDSSIOAjOIwEBAQEGAQEBAR6PeAeEKgWKJ59LgUUihAwggnMBAQE X-IPAS-Result: ArsTAPOG1lTO+LI//2dsb2JhbABbgwaDX4VTwGUEAgKBDUQBAQEBAQF8hA0BBAFWIwULCw4mEhQYDSSIOAjOIwEBAQEGAQEBAR6PeAeEKgWKJ59LgUUihAwggnMBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.09,536,1418101200"; d="scan'208";a="110870035" Received: from 206-248-178-63.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([206.248.178.63]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 18 Feb 2015 20:55:20 -0500 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 5755F1F5F; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 20:55:00 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: Glenn Morris Subject: Re: bug#19889: tex-verbatim face: don't specify :family? Message-ID: References: <7kk2zfjaly.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 20:55:00 -0500 In-Reply-To: <7kk2zfjaly.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (Glenn Morris's message of "Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:14:17 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) > So presumably the problem is that it picks an x font rather than an xft one. > See attached image for how it looks clunky in info. Yes, that's the usual cause for blocky fonts. > Firefox just uses "Monospace" font. When/where? > Gnome-terminal has "use the system fixed-with font". How's that relevant for tex-verbatim or Info-quoted? > IIUC, fc-match tells me that monspace == DejaVu Sans Mono. For tex-verbatim, it shouldn't just be monospaced, but should look somewhat like TeX's verbatim font (i.e. old typewriter style, i.e. courier). For Info-quoted, it's not indispensable that it looks like courier, but it should look different from the default font (by default). IIUC the default font nowadays is a monospaced sans-serif font, so I chose a monospaced font with serif. > I know little about fonts, but it seems suboptimal to me to try and > specify a family for a handful of faces, since it's impossible to > predict how it will look in conjunction with the user's other fonts. I think we should define a `fixed-width-with-serif' face and inherit from that, to make the intention clear. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 18 21:21:12 2015 Received: (at 19889) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Feb 2015 02:21:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48256 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YOGjo-0007mY-0E for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 21:21:12 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:54391) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YOGjl-0007mQ-KJ for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 21:21:10 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YOGjk-00054M-Fc; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 21:21:08 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#19889: tex-verbatim face: don't specify :family? References: <7kk2zfjaly.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spook: airframe Mossad Comirex spies Blowpipe SAFE Leuken-Baden X-Ran: zF1n,e>zK4)DXw"Sbmi6?ew,l}&j%w@#DuN%(IKCt/dY[n{~bO!}?(}$mn+ (Stefan Monnier's message of "Wed, 18 Feb 2015 20:55:00 -0500") Message-ID: <82oaoqfxpo.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Stefan Monnier wrote: >> Firefox just uses "Monospace" font. > > When/where? edit/prefs/content/advanced >> Gnome-terminal has "use the system fixed-with font". > > How's that relevant for tex-verbatim or Info-quoted? "Person who know nothing about fonts tries to provide potentially relevant information from other applications where the fonts look better than the one Emacs picked." :) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 18 13:59:09 2015 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Dec 2015 18:59:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55963 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aA0FA-0005eT-Tl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Dec 2015 13:59:09 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:52341) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aA0F9-0005eA-61 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Dec 2015 13:59:07 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aA0F3-0007i8-Is for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Dec 2015 13:59:02 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:47005) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aA0F3-0007i4-FW for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Dec 2015 13:59:01 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aA0F3-0007ou-1f for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Dec 2015 13:59:01 -0500 Subject: control message for bug 19889 To: X-Mailer: mail (GNU Mailutils 2.99.98) Message-Id: From: Glenn Morris Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 13:59:01 -0500 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) forcemerge 22207 19889 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 18 13:59:29 2015 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Dec 2015 18:59:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55967 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aA0FV-0005f3-2w for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Dec 2015 13:59:29 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:52498) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aA0FT-0005en-OJ for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Dec 2015 13:59:27 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aA0FO-0007og-4E for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Dec 2015 13:59:22 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:47017) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aA0FO-0007oX-17 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Dec 2015 13:59:22 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aA0FN-0008Em-Cp for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Dec 2015 13:59:21 -0500 Subject: control message for bug 19759 To: X-Mailer: mail (GNU Mailutils 2.99.98) Message-Id: From: Glenn Morris Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 13:59:21 -0500 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) block 19759 by 22207 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu May 05 17:00:45 2016 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 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Thu, 05 May 2016 17:00:24 -0400 Subject: control message for bug 19889 To: X-Mailer: mail (GNU Mailutils 2.99.98) Message-Id: From: Glenn Morris Date: Thu, 05 May 2016 17:00:24 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -7.1 (-------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -7.1 (-------) unmerge 19889 reopen 19889 From unknown Sat Jun 21 10:30:21 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: Did not alter fixed versions and reopened. Date: Thu, 05 May 2016 21:01:02 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # Did not alter fixed versions and reopened. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu May 05 18:54:49 2016 Received: (at 19889) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 May 2016 22:54:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40907 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aySAT-0006qc-7t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2016 18:54:49 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:36699) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aySAQ-0006qP-V3 for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2016 18:54:47 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 196AB160633; Thu, 5 May 2016 15:54:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id A9sMfzEHVhri; Thu, 5 May 2016 15:54:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 575F216124D; Thu, 5 May 2016 15:54:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id CKZbFTc4RYV9; Thu, 5 May 2016 15:54:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from penguin.cs.ucla.edu (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 38E94160633; Thu, 5 May 2016 15:54:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23 To: Glenn Morris , 19889@debbugs.gnu.org References: <56744F95.20307@cs.ucla.edu> <951925e4-e3ed-0367-721a-7241546f4013@cs.ucla.edu> <3u37pwfb2n.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: Date: Thu, 5 May 2016 15:54:39 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3u37pwfb2n.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------A4E769C5105E8F06D941135A" X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------A4E769C5105E8F06D941135A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [Redirecting from Bug#22207] On 05/05/2016 02:29 PM, Glenn Morris wrote: > Info-quoted and tex-verbatim faces > continue to look poor on RHEL 7, so I unmerged and reopened my own > #19889. > Please try the attached patch against Emacs 25. It attempts to implement Stefan's suggestions in Bug#19889, and this improved things for me on Fedora 23, when I ran 'emacs -Q'. Although this patch makes things worse when I run emacs without -Q, that is because I have this in my ~/.Xresources: Emacs.font: -misc-fixed-medium-r-semicondensed--0-0-75-75-c-0-iso8859-1 which is an old-timer expert setting that I should really fix one of these days, so I wouldn't put too much weight on my glitch. --------------A4E769C5105E8F06D941135A Content-Type: application/x-patch; name="0001-Improve-display-of-tex-verbatim.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-Improve-display-of-tex-verbatim.patch" RnJvbSBkYTZiMDgyODJlZjY3YmY3Y2M3ZDdkMWYyNzlhNWE2NDZkYjE5YTFlIE1vbiBTZXAg MTcgMDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBQYXVsIEVnZ2VydCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1 PgpEYXRlOiBUaHUsIDUgTWF5IDIwMTYgMTU6NTI6NTkgLTA3MDAKU3ViamVjdDogW1BBVENI XSBJbXByb3ZlIGRpc3BsYXkgb2YgdGV4LXZlcmJhdGltCgpQcm9ibGVtIHJlcG9ydGVkIGJ5 IEdsZW5uIE1vcnJpcyAoQnVnIzE5ODg5KS4KKiBkb2MvZW1hY3MvZGlzcGxheS50ZXhpIChT dGFuZGFyZCBGYWNlcyk6CiogZG9jL2xpc3ByZWYvZGlzcGxheS50ZXhpIChCYXNpYyBGYWNl 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Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:55210) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ayZO2-0004C3-8t for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 02:37:18 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ayZNn-0003xy-F8 for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 02:37:09 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:36300) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ayZNn-0003xB-Be for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 02:37:03 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1163 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ayZNh-0004iO-V6; Fri, 06 May 2016 02:36:58 -0400 Date: Fri, 06 May 2016 09:37:10 +0300 Message-Id: <83a8k3heuh.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Glenn Morris In-reply-to: <3u37pwfb2n.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (message from Glenn Morris on Thu, 05 May 2016 17:29:20 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23 References: <56744F95.20307@cs.ucla.edu> <951925e4-e3ed-0367-721a-7241546f4013@cs.ucla.edu> <3u37pwfb2n.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -7.1 (-------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -7.1 (-------) > From: Glenn Morris > Date: Thu, 05 May 2016 17:29:20 -0400 > Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu > > Paul Eggert wrote: > > > I just now attempted to reproduce this bug on emacs-25, and could not > > reproduce it; the display looks OK (see attached). Although I am still > > running Fedora 23 x86-64, I have installed several packages since the > > original bug report in December so it's possible that the problem has > > gone away because some new fonts have been installed. Another > > possibility is that the bug has been fixed in draft Emacs 25 somehow. > > Either way, I will close this particular bug report now as I can't > > reproduce it. > > Nothing's changed in Emacs, and Info-quoted and tex-verbatim faces > continue to look poor on RHEL 7, so I unmerged and reopened my own > #19889. Is what you see similar to what's shown on the image attached to http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=19889#15? If so, can you explain what is your problem with that display? It looks fine to me, but maybe I'm missing something. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 06 02:49:42 2016 Received: (at 19889) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2016 06:49:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41064 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ayZa2-0004UD-OK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 02:49:42 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:57036) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ayZa1-0004U0-Ec for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 02:49:41 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ayZZm-0007Ir-TO for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 02:49:33 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:36447) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ayZZm-0007ID-Q3; Fri, 06 May 2016 02:49:26 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1171 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ayZZg-0005kK-D9; Fri, 06 May 2016 02:49:20 -0400 Date: Fri, 06 May 2016 09:49:32 +0300 Message-Id: <838tznhe9v.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Paul Eggert In-reply-to: (message from Paul Eggert on Thu, 5 May 2016 15:54:39 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#19889: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23 References: <56744F95.20307@cs.ucla.edu> <951925e4-e3ed-0367-721a-7241546f4013@cs.ucla.edu> <3u37pwfb2n.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -7.1 (-------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org, rgm@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -7.1 (-------) > From: Paul Eggert > Date: Thu, 5 May 2016 15:54:39 -0700 > > On 05/05/2016 02:29 PM, Glenn Morris wrote: > > Info-quoted and tex-verbatim faces > > continue to look poor on RHEL 7, so I unmerged and reopened my own > > #19889. > > > Please try the attached patch against Emacs 25. It attempts to implement > Stefan's suggestions in Bug#19889, and this improved things for me on > Fedora 23, when I ran 'emacs -Q'. > > Although this patch makes things worse when I run emacs without -Q, that > is because I have this in my ~/.Xresources: > > Emacs.font: -misc-fixed-medium-r-semicondensed--0-0-75-75-c-0-iso8859-1 > > which is an old-timer expert setting that I should really fix one of > these days, so I wouldn't put too much weight on my glitch. If we are going to use such kludges, why not specify fonts explicitly in the defface to begin with? After all, that's what your patch attempts to do, albeit indirectly, right? In general, I find the family specification to be too fragile for any reliable specification of typefaces: the results are inconsistent across different systems and tend to depend too much on local setup. Unfortunately, we don't have a font expert on board who could point out how to do that better, or how to improve the current font selection machinery to produce more reliable results. (My impression is that all the font-related attributes are not perceived as mandatory enough, and the font selection code tries very hard to find _some_ font, even if it doesn't fit the constraints. But I have no proof for this impression.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 06 11:48:32 2016 Received: (at 19889) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2016 15:48:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41941 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ayhzU-0005Ke-N1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 11:48:32 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:41075) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ayhzT-0005KP-97 for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 11:48:31 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ayhzE-00049d-OU for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 11:48:22 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:46755) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ayhz2-00044y-Cg; Fri, 06 May 2016 11:48:04 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ayhyw-0002cN-71; Fri, 06 May 2016 11:47:58 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#19889: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23 References: <56744F95.20307@cs.ucla.edu> <951925e4-e3ed-0367-721a-7241546f4013@cs.ucla.edu> <3u37pwfb2n.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <838tznhe9v.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spook: MIT-LL El Paso Abu Ghraib CIS Federal Aviation X-Ran: /}c>|qCT|e;,eNqf~QHn8yIyvvuG+0OY8jiYs%fn~d9qqbRQPo_euy;p~9g:hFnLLPtJj_ X-Hue: yellow X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Fri, 06 May 2016 11:47:58 -0400 In-Reply-To: <838tznhe9v.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 06 May 2016 09:49:32 +0300") Message-ID: <4afutvkx1t.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -7.1 (-------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org, Paul Eggert X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -7.1 (-------) Eli Zaretskii wrote: > In general, I find the family specification to be too fragile for any > reliable specification of typefaces: the results are inconsistent > across different systems and tend to depend too much on local setup. That was exactly the point of my report. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 06 11:58:32 2016 Received: (at 19889) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2016 15:58:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41950 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ayi99-0005cF-R3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 11:58:31 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:43194) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ayi98-0005c4-IG for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 11:58:30 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ayi8u-00072N-6Z for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 11:58:22 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:46898) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ayi8u-000716-44; Fri, 06 May 2016 11:58:16 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2982 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ayi8m-0005q7-J9; Fri, 06 May 2016 11:58:09 -0400 Date: Fri, 06 May 2016 18:58:21 +0300 Message-Id: <83lh3nfaaq.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Glenn Morris In-reply-to: <4afutvkx1t.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (message from Glenn Morris on Fri, 06 May 2016 11:47:58 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#19889: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23 References: <56744F95.20307@cs.ucla.edu> <951925e4-e3ed-0367-721a-7241546f4013@cs.ucla.edu> <3u37pwfb2n.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <838tznhe9v.fsf@gnu.org> <4afutvkx1t.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -7.1 (-------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -7.1 (-------) > From: Glenn Morris > Cc: Paul Eggert , 19889@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 06 May 2016 11:47:58 -0400 > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > In general, I find the family specification to be too fragile for any > > reliable specification of typefaces: the results are inconsistent > > across different systems and tend to depend too much on local setup. > > That was exactly the point of my report. OK, but you seemed also to complain about the results in your particular case, which (according to the image you posted) I find satisfactory: we asked for a monospaced font and got a monospaced font, which looks different from the default one. So if there's any problem with that image, can you point it out? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 06 12:00:07 2016 Received: (at 19889) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2016 16:00:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41954 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ayiAh-0005g6-6D for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 12:00:07 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:50743) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ayiAf-0005eH-HP for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 12:00:05 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA76D160FF5; Fri, 6 May 2016 08:59:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id osgctrNJTG7N; Fri, 6 May 2016 08:59:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50269160FF7; Fri, 6 May 2016 08:59:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id jJTskMdxWfjC; Fri, 6 May 2016 08:59:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from penguin.cs.ucla.edu (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 34EA6160FF5; Fri, 6 May 2016 08:59:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#19889: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23 To: Eli Zaretskii References: <56744F95.20307@cs.ucla.edu> <951925e4-e3ed-0367-721a-7241546f4013@cs.ucla.edu> <3u37pwfb2n.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <838tznhe9v.fsf@gnu.org> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <9e47cf3a-8a15-f0d0-66db-4fffb7dcee38@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 6 May 2016 08:59:48 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <838tznhe9v.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org, rgm@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) On 05/05/2016 11:49 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > If we are going to use such kludges, why not specify fonts explicitly > in the defface to begin with? After all, that's what your patch > attempts to do, albeit indirectly, right? The patch I proposed basically implements the suggestions Stefan made in=20 and . Stefan=20 was responding to Glenn=E2=80=99s original bug report, which suggests tha= t it is=20 not a good idea for a face definition to specify a font explicitly, due=20 to portability problems on systems lacking the font. See the attachment=20 to for an example of how verbatim=20 text in TeX mode was displayed as little black boxes because TeX mode=20 specifies an explicit font on a platform lacking it. I am by no means an expert on Emacs fonts or on font technology in=20 general. That being said, I would like to fix this blocking bug, and=20 Stefan=E2=80=99s suggestion was the only concrete one on the table. If th= e patch=20 is problematic, then is there a better way to fix this bug? More=20 specifically: is it the introduction of =E2=80=98fixed-pitch-serif=E2=80=99= that you=E2=80=99re=20 objecting to, or the addition of FreeMono and Nimbus Mono L as fonts to=20 look for, or is it something else? Is there some way we could make the=20 patch less kludgy, while still addressing Glenn=E2=80=99s and Stefan=E2=80= =99s concerns? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 06 12:02:38 2016 Received: (at 19889) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2016 16:02:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41958 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ayiD7-0005nE-JJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 12:02:38 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:44350) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ayiD6-0005n2-1j for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 12:02:36 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ayiCr-0008HB-LJ for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 12:02:27 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:47020) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ayiCr-0008Gm-IL for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 12:02:21 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ayiCm-0003un-5c; Fri, 06 May 2016 12:02:16 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#19889: tex-verbatim face: don't specify :family? References: <56744F95.20307@cs.ucla.edu> <951925e4-e3ed-0367-721a-7241546f4013@cs.ucla.edu> <3u37pwfb2n.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83a8k3heuh.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spook: Soviet Fusion Center Beltran-Leyva Taiwan oil Cyber X-Ran: d:!(%,aNA|(#"Eiz;xHo^M5U.|6p}.X-M`y:M'CPIy{],3.r{"c+"+#np+0Uhgp`bjI4s~ X-Hue: cyan X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Fri, 06 May 2016 12:02:16 -0400 In-Reply-To: <83a8k3heuh.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 06 May 2016 09:37:10 +0300") Message-ID: <0pwpn7jhtj.fsf_-_@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -7.1 (-------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -7.1 (-------) Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Is what you see similar to what's shown on the image attached to > http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=19889#15? If so, can you > explain what is your problem with that display? That face looks poor compared to all the others. If you don't agree with me, fine, please just close this as wontfix, since I've said everything I can possibly say on this subject already and it doesn't seem to bother others. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 06 12:24:21 2016 Received: (at 19889) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2016 16:24:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41965 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ayiY8-0006JH-Hs for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 12:24:20 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:53134) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ayiY6-0006Iy-NP for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 12:24:19 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A063161009; Fri, 6 May 2016 09:24:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id kGYZRmWovtuS; Fri, 6 May 2016 09:24:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 176D316100A; Fri, 6 May 2016 09:24:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id eFphGxLXVJrD; Fri, 6 May 2016 09:24:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from penguin.cs.ucla.edu (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B6783161009; Fri, 6 May 2016 09:24:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#19889: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23 To: Eli Zaretskii , Glenn Morris References: <56744F95.20307@cs.ucla.edu> <951925e4-e3ed-0367-721a-7241546f4013@cs.ucla.edu> <3u37pwfb2n.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <838tznhe9v.fsf@gnu.org> <4afutvkx1t.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83lh3nfaaq.fsf@gnu.org> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 May 2016 09:24:11 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <83lh3nfaaq.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------83F26E4ED7CC16DC52B5F409" X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------83F26E4ED7CC16DC52B5F409 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 05/06/2016 08:58 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > if there's any > problem with that image, can you point it out? Here is my reaction to Glenn=E2=80=99s attachment to=20 . Some users are reaaaaally annoyed by=20 aliased (=E2=80=9Cjagged=E2=80=9D) fonts, particularly when combined with= text that is=20 mostly anti-aliased. The annoyance level can depend on the display=20 technology: due to subpixel rendering, for example, what you see when=20 you look at Glenn=E2=80=99s attachment on your display may differ from wh= at=20 Glenn sees on his display. Other users aren=E2=80=99t bothered at all. With all this in mind, I can sympathize with Glenn=E2=80=99s discomfort w= ith his=20 attachment: although on my display it is sort of OK (certainly better=20 than I observed in my attachment to ), the=20 serifed text is distractingly blocky. Plus, there=E2=80=99s another problem with Emacs=E2=80=99s current approa= ch: on my=20 Fedora 23 platform, the jagged font lacks serifs, which defeats the main=20 point of specifying Courier for quoted Info text. The combination of these two issues makes the Emacs manual look more=20 amateurish on my platform. In contrast, the anti-aliased font is=20 smoother and fits in better. Although many users will not care about the=20 difference, some will. I=E2=80=99ll attach screenshots to try to illustra= te. Although I think this bug should be fixed, the patch=E2=80=99s improvemen= t is=20 small enough that I do not see the bug as a blocker against Emacs 25. --------------83F26E4ED7CC16DC52B5F409 Content-Type: image/png; name="without-patch.png" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="without-patch.png" iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAn8AAAB1CAYAAAA/Soe0AAAABHNCSVQICAgIfAhkiAAAABl0 RVh0U29mdHdhcmUAZ25vbWUtc2NyZWVuc2hvdO8Dvz4AACAASURBVHic7d1/VFTV3j/w9zAw MKCDDCBmSD0giQg+j3HNSsEf4PVhBSH4aMhaNwg0XYFY5i1+WqiPdY1KK620m5Im/kLLylal UBr98sejdQHz11BeTUrEjNBk4PP9oy9nOcyvfYbDgPJ5rTVLz5k9e3/25+w5szkz5xwVEREY Y4wxxlif4NLTATDGGGOMMefhyR9jjDHGWB/Ckz/GGGOMsT6EJ3+MMcYYY30IT/4YY4wxxvoQ nvwxxhhjjPUhPPljjDHGGOtDePLHGGOMMdaHKDL5S01NhUqlsvqYOnWqEs10m1deeQWffvpp t9aTk5ODu+++u8ttMGaPUuO5t7V1I+pqfiIiIm6Y/WhvZzQaoVKpsH37dqtllBzPBQUFCAgI gEqluiH2/fz51bcoMvl77LHHsG3bNmzbtg3Lli0DACxatEha9+STTyrRTLdxxuSPMWfhyV/v 0dX8fPzxxzAYDIiPj1cuqD5KpVJhxIgR8Pb2tlpGqfH8zTff4JlnnkFJSQkOHDiA9evXd7nO 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Received: (at 19889) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2016 17:16:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41986 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ayjMN-0007Z3-VT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 13:16:16 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:60188) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ayjMM-0007Yl-D3 for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 13:16:14 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ayjM7-0003Sm-NK for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 13:16:06 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:48257) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ayjLv-0003LJ-JM; Fri, 06 May 2016 13:15:47 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3029 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ayjLp-0000nE-0h; Fri, 06 May 2016 13:15:41 -0400 Date: Fri, 06 May 2016 20:15:54 +0300 Message-Id: <83k2j7f6ph.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Paul Eggert In-reply-to: (message from Paul Eggert on Fri, 6 May 2016 09:24:11 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#19889: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23 References: <56744F95.20307@cs.ucla.edu> <951925e4-e3ed-0367-721a-7241546f4013@cs.ucla.edu> <3u37pwfb2n.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <838tznhe9v.fsf@gnu.org> <4afutvkx1t.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83lh3nfaaq.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -7.1 (-------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org, rgm@gnu.org, monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -7.1 (-------) > Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier > From: Paul Eggert > Date: Fri, 6 May 2016 09:24:11 -0700 > > Here is my reaction to Glenn’s attachment to > . Some users are reaaaaally annoyed by > aliased (“jagged”) fonts, particularly when combined with text that is > mostly anti-aliased. The annoyance level can depend on the display > technology: due to subpixel rendering, for example, what you see when > you look at Glenn’s attachment on your display may differ from what > Glenn sees on his display. > > Other users aren’t bothered at all. I guess I belong to the latter group. I see the difference, but I'm not bothered by it. What matters is that the font should be monospaced; beyond that, we have very little to expect. > Plus, there’s another problem with Emacs’s current approach: on my > Fedora 23 platform, the jagged font lacks serifs, which defeats the main > point of specifying Courier for quoted Info text. AFAIU, the main point of specifying that face was to have a face different from default that is still monospaced. And both fonts satisfy that condition, so I don't see any further problems we should care about. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 06 13:18:25 2016 Received: (at 19889) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2016 17:18:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41995 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ayjOT-0007cu-Jq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 13:18:25 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:32993) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ayjOR-0007cf-QC for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 13:18:24 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ayjOC-0004Jr-NX for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 13:18:15 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:48318) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ayjO1-0004DG-9J; Fri, 06 May 2016 13:17:57 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3030 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ayjNu-00013f-LG; Fri, 06 May 2016 13:17:51 -0400 Date: Fri, 06 May 2016 20:18:03 +0300 Message-Id: <83inyrf6lw.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Paul Eggert In-reply-to: <9e47cf3a-8a15-f0d0-66db-4fffb7dcee38@cs.ucla.edu> (message from Paul Eggert on Fri, 6 May 2016 08:59:48 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#19889: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23 References: <56744F95.20307@cs.ucla.edu> <951925e4-e3ed-0367-721a-7241546f4013@cs.ucla.edu> <3u37pwfb2n.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <838tznhe9v.fsf@gnu.org> <9e47cf3a-8a15-f0d0-66db-4fffb7dcee38@cs.ucla.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -7.1 (-------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org, rgm@gnu.org, monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -7.1 (-------) > Cc: rgm@gnu.org, 19889@debbugs.gnu.org, > Stefan Monnier > From: Paul Eggert > Date: Fri, 6 May 2016 08:59:48 -0700 > > I am by no means an expert on Emacs fonts or on font technology in > general. That being said, I would like to fix this blocking bug, and > Stefan’s suggestion was the only concrete one on the table. If the patch > is problematic, then is there a better way to fix this bug? We could specify the font explicitly. > More specifically: is it the introduction of ‘fixed-pitch-serif’ > that you’re objecting to, or the addition of FreeMono and Nimbus > Mono L as fonts to look for The latter. I see that as a (perhaps complicated and a bit unreliable) way of specifying a font which we know we want to get as result. If so, why not specify the font explicitly? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 06 14:24:23 2016 Received: (at 19889) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2016 18:24:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42026 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aykQJ-0000mv-Iu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 14:24:23 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:35597) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aykQH-0000mh-JR for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 14:24:22 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0A2E161071; Fri, 6 May 2016 11:24:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id H1sExF3FVo5j; Fri, 6 May 2016 11:24:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD489161073; Fri, 6 May 2016 11:24:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id DzN-cPlZu4MG; Fri, 6 May 2016 11:24:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from penguin.cs.ucla.edu (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8B857161071; Fri, 6 May 2016 11:24:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#19889: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23 To: Eli Zaretskii References: <56744F95.20307@cs.ucla.edu> <951925e4-e3ed-0367-721a-7241546f4013@cs.ucla.edu> <3u37pwfb2n.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <838tznhe9v.fsf@gnu.org> <9e47cf3a-8a15-f0d0-66db-4fffb7dcee38@cs.ucla.edu> <83inyrf6lw.fsf@gnu.org> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <4201e7d9-9143-b02b-909d-8665d32d6eae@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 6 May 2016 11:24:14 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <83inyrf6lw.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org, rgm@gnu.org, monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) On 05/06/2016 10:18 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > We could specify the font explicitly. > >> >More specifically: is it the introduction of =E2=80=98fixed-pitch-ser= if=E2=80=99 >> >that you=E2=80=99re objecting to, or the addition of FreeMono and Nim= bus >> >Mono L as fonts to look for > The latter. I see that as a (perhaps complicated and a bit > unreliable) way of specifying a font which we know we want to get as > result. If so, why not specify the font explicitly? The problem is, which font to specify explicitly? Not all platforms have=20 a font named "Courier". Mine doesn't (Fedora 23). If we knew that all=20 Emacs platforms had an appropriate font (Courier, or FreeMono, or Nimbus=20 Mono L, or whatever), we could specify that font, but I do not know of=20 any such font, nor do I know how to query arbitrary platforms for such a=20 font. In further testing on my Fedora 23 host I discovered another suitable=20 anti-aliased font, Courier 10 Pitch. It is also a free font and looks a=20 bit better with emacs -Q, and Wikipedia says Courier 10 Pitch BT is the=20 default Courier font on many GNU/Linux hosts=20 .=20 So I will update my proposed patch to prefer Courier 10 Pitch to the=20 alternatives already in the list. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 06 15:02:10 2016 Received: (at 19889) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2016 19:02:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42042 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ayl0s-0001hF-1P for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 15:02:10 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:57461) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ayl0q-0001h0-G5 for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 15:02:08 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ayl0b-0000f8-M5 for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 15:02:00 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:49947) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ayl0P-0000b7-J2; Fri, 06 May 2016 15:01:41 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3134 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ayl0I-0006WN-VS; Fri, 06 May 2016 15:01:35 -0400 Date: Fri, 06 May 2016 22:01:48 +0300 Message-Id: <83futvf1sz.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Paul Eggert In-reply-to: <4201e7d9-9143-b02b-909d-8665d32d6eae@cs.ucla.edu> (message from Paul Eggert on Fri, 6 May 2016 11:24:14 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#19889: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23 References: <56744F95.20307@cs.ucla.edu> <951925e4-e3ed-0367-721a-7241546f4013@cs.ucla.edu> <3u37pwfb2n.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <838tznhe9v.fsf@gnu.org> <9e47cf3a-8a15-f0d0-66db-4fffb7dcee38@cs.ucla.edu> <83inyrf6lw.fsf@gnu.org> <4201e7d9-9143-b02b-909d-8665d32d6eae@cs.ucla.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -7.1 (-------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org, rgm@gnu.org, monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -7.1 (-------) > Cc: rgm@gnu.org, 19889@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA > From: Paul Eggert > Date: Fri, 6 May 2016 11:24:14 -0700 > > On 05/06/2016 10:18 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > We could specify the font explicitly. > > > >> >More specifically: is it the introduction of ‘fixed-pitch-serif’ > >> >that you’re objecting to, or the addition of FreeMono and Nimbus > >> >Mono L as fonts to look for > > The latter. I see that as a (perhaps complicated and a bit > > unreliable) way of specifying a font which we know we want to get as > > result. If so, why not specify the font explicitly? > > The problem is, which font to specify explicitly? Not all platforms have > a font named "Courier". Mine doesn't (Fedora 23). If we knew that all > Emacs platforms had an appropriate font (Courier, or FreeMono, or Nimbus > Mono L, or whatever), we could specify that font, but I do not know of > any such font, nor do I know how to query arbitrary platforms for such a > font. I'm aware of the issue, but I very much doubt there are too many variants out there. We could enumerate them all, and try one after another, or even do it specifically for each platform. Which is more or less what your patch does, isn't it? > In further testing on my Fedora 23 host I discovered another suitable > anti-aliased font, Courier 10 Pitch. So why do you say above you don't have Courier? > It is also a free font and looks a bit better with emacs -Q, and > Wikipedia says Courier 10 Pitch BT is the default Courier font on > many GNU/Linux hosts > . > So I will update my proposed patch to prefer Courier 10 Pitch to the > alternatives already in the list. We could systematically review the most popular platforms (how many are there, anyway?), and simply state a font or a couple of them for each platform. And I won't be surprised if all of them mostly use the same fonts, even if some of them aren't necessarily present sometimes. IOW, I prefer naming fonts rather than asking for them via families. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 06 15:32:52 2016 Received: (at 19889) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2016 19:32:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42060 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aylUa-0002QZ-2I for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 15:32:52 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:13211) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aylUY-0002QL-9y for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 15:32:51 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0A2FgA731xV/5eFSC1cDoMChAKFVcMLBAICgTw8EQEBAQEBAQGBCkEFg10BAQMBViMFCws0EhQYDSSINwjPIwEBAQEGAQEBAR6LOoUFB4QtBbUEI4M6WiKCeAEBAQ X-IPAS-Result: A0A2FgA731xV/5eFSC1cDoMChAKFVcMLBAICgTw8EQEBAQEBAQGBCkEFg10BAQMBViMFCws0EhQYDSSINwjPIwEBAQEGAQEBAR6LOoUFB4QtBbUEI4M6WiKCeAEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,465,1427774400"; d="scan'208";a="229433537" Received: from 45-72-133-151.cpe.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([45.72.133.151]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP; 06 May 2016 15:32:44 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id B2C4A642D0; Fri, 6 May 2016 15:32:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Paul Eggert Subject: Re: bug#19889: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23 Message-ID: References: <56744F95.20307@cs.ucla.edu> <951925e4-e3ed-0367-721a-7241546f4013@cs.ucla.edu> <3u37pwfb2n.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <838tznhe9v.fsf@gnu.org> <9e47cf3a-8a15-f0d0-66db-4fffb7dcee38@cs.ucla.edu> <83inyrf6lw.fsf@gnu.org> <4201e7d9-9143-b02b-909d-8665d32d6eae@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 06 May 2016 15:32:43 -0400 In-Reply-To: <4201e7d9-9143-b02b-909d-8665d32d6eae@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Fri, 6 May 2016 11:24:14 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org, rgm@gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) > The problem is, which font to specify explicitly? Not all platforms > have a font named "Courier". That's what face-font-family-alternatives is for. We already have an entry in there for "courier", so it just needs to be completed. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 06 16:09:21 2016 Received: (at 19889) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2016 20:09:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42079 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aym3t-0003Gt-8B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 16:09:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45394) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aym3r-0003Gg-Ci for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 16:09:19 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aym3c-0003Qy-P5 for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 16:09:10 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,RP_MATCHES_RCVD, UNRESOLVED_TEMPLATE autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:51136) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aym3O-0003M5-Hx; Fri, 06 May 2016 16:08:50 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aym3I-0003Ld-Am; Fri, 06 May 2016 16:08:44 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Paul Eggert Subject: Re: bug#19889 References: <56744F95.20307@cs.ucla.edu> <951925e4-e3ed-0367-721a-7241546f4013@cs.ucla.edu> <3u37pwfb2n.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spook: Audiotel Downing Street AK-47 Capricorn investigation X-Ran: CK}32%AErv%`z,nS8SW?fQ6Vf\is%YA:(.a,H-Vl$\LdcamLR,d<0 (Paul Eggert's message of "Thu, 5 May 2016 15:54:39 -0700") Message-ID: <3q4mab7xv7.fsf_-_@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) Paul Eggert wrote: > Please try the attached patch against Emacs 25. It attempts to > implement Stefan's suggestions in Bug#19889, and this improved things > for me on Fedora 23, when I ran 'emacs -Q'. Thanks, but it makes no difference for me on RHEL7. Emacs still uses the same poor non-xft font: x:-adobe-courier-medium-r-normal--14-140-75-75-m-90-iso8859-1 (The addition of fixed-pitch-serif as a base face is of course desirable.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 06 16:23:29 2016 Received: (at 19889) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2016 20:23:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42086 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aymHZ-0003c9-I5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 16:23:29 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:48754) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aymHX-0003bw-B3 for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 16:23:27 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aymHJ-0007V5-0M for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 16:23:18 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:51528) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aymH6-0007Ql-Px; Fri, 06 May 2016 16:23:00 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aymH0-0004xe-1U; Fri, 06 May 2016 16:22:54 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Paul Eggert Subject: Re: bug#19889: References: <56744F95.20307@cs.ucla.edu> <951925e4-e3ed-0367-721a-7241546f4013@cs.ucla.edu> <3u37pwfb2n.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <3q4mab7xv7.fsf_-_@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spook: Forest fire INSCOM Bomb squad Audiotel embassy radar X-Ran: j6Fm\"(_-9?CDgS,>Bb-Sgdi'Ewpr|fIP6_q3']Z"~p6_SH[-7L1&:'z/=TCxyI>ZT (Glenn Morris's message of "Fri, 06 May 2016 16:08:44 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -7.1 (-------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -7.1 (-------) PS Manually setting the font family to "Nimbus Mono L" works. This is what fc-match returns for me: fc-match courier n022003l.pfb: "Nimbus Mono L" "Regular" Yet for "font family: courier", Emacs selects x:-adobe-courier-medium, for some reason. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 06 23:03:18 2016 Received: (at 19889) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 May 2016 03:03:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42175 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aysWU-0004rB-9T for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 23:03:18 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:39732) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aysWS-0004qy-Ke for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2016 23:03:17 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3322160FC0; Fri, 6 May 2016 20:03:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id k4rpTKGdFg5X; Fri, 6 May 2016 20:03:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C95DA160FF5; Fri, 6 May 2016 20:03:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id JQu2h0nDuro9; Fri, 6 May 2016 20:03:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [100.32.155.148]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A7497160FC0; Fri, 6 May 2016 20:03:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Eggert Subject: Re: bug#19889: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23 To: Eli Zaretskii References: <56744F95.20307@cs.ucla.edu> <951925e4-e3ed-0367-721a-7241546f4013@cs.ucla.edu> <3u37pwfb2n.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <838tznhe9v.fsf@gnu.org> <9e47cf3a-8a15-f0d0-66db-4fffb7dcee38@cs.ucla.edu> <83inyrf6lw.fsf@gnu.org> <4201e7d9-9143-b02b-909d-8665d32d6eae@cs.ucla.edu> <83futvf1sz.fsf@gnu.org> Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <572D5AED.4070408@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 6 May 2016 20:03:09 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <83futvf1sz.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org, rgm@gnu.org, monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) On 05/06/2016 12:01 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > I very much doubt there are too many > variants out there. We could enumerate them all, and try one after > another, or even do it specifically for each platform. Which is more > or less what your patch does, isn't it? Yes, that's why I want to install the patch. :-) >> In further testing on my Fedora 23 host I discovered another suitable = >> anti-aliased font, Courier 10 Pitch. > So why do you say above you don't have Courier? Because I don't have it exactly. The font on Fedora 23 is called "Courier= 10 Pitch", not "Courier". It's from Bitstream and is quite close but not ide= ntical to honest-to-goodness IBM Courier. I just now checked another desktop, running Ubuntu 16.04, and it has the = same set of suitable fonts as Fedora 23. (It also has a Thai font that would s= uffice for ASCII but this is probably not a good choice in general.) > We could systematically review the most popular platforms (how many > are there, anyway?), and simply state a font or a couple of them for > each platform. And I won't be surprised if all of them mostly use the > same fonts, even if some of them aren't necessarily present sometimes. > > IOW, I prefer naming fonts rather than asking for them via families. The problem with Courier is that there are so many fonts that are all so = similar to Courier and most people can't tell the difference. This is partly due = to the intellectual history behind Courier. I looked for a good source about this issue, and found someone who took a= circa-2012 census of Courier-like fonts on various web browsers and who evaluated their looks when combined with non-Courier fonts. He writes tha= t on GNU/Linux platforms, the most common Courier fonts were Nimbus Mono L (98= =2E2%) and FreeMono (85.2%) but these fonts are a bit faint to be mixing with ot= her fonts, and that Courier 10 Pitch (85.0%) was a better choice. On OS X, he= writes that Courier Std (2.1%), Consolas (48.6%), and Courier (99.5%) are all go= od choices, whereas Courier New (96.8%) is a bit faint. On MS-Windows, he sa= ys Consolas (88.6%) and Courier (3.6%) are good choices, whereas FreeMono (0= =2E6%) and Courier New (99.8%) are a bit faint. As a result of all this, he sugg= ests the following order for Web use: "Courier 10 Pitch", "Courier Std", Conso= las, Courier, "TeX Gyre Cursor", TeXGyreCursor, "Nimbus Mono L", FreeMono, "Courier New", monospace. See . I doubt whether GNU Emacs should be defaulting to the non-free fonts in t= hat list(e.g., Consolas), given that the free fonts are so widely available.C= ourier New is often disliked (it was digitized directly from the IBM Selectric g= olfball which was at odds with how the Selectric actually worked). I don't know a= bout TeX Gyre Cursor, but it doesn't seem to be common on Fedora and Ubuntu an= yway. The other Courier-like fonts are close to the list I already proposed. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 07 02:50:50 2016 Received: (at 19889) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 May 2016 06:50:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42229 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ayw4f-00028D-ND for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 May 2016 02:50:49 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:34181) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ayw4e-000281-97 for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 May 2016 02:50:48 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ayw4W-0003Ny-5j for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 May 2016 02:50:43 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:32931) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ayw4V-0003Nu-W8; Sat, 07 May 2016 02:50:40 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3655 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ayw4Q-0004El-Sc; Sat, 07 May 2016 02:50:35 -0400 Date: Sat, 07 May 2016 09:50:50 +0300 Message-Id: <838tzmfjjp.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Monnier In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Monnier on Fri, 06 May 2016 15:32:43 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#19889: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23 References: <56744F95.20307@cs.ucla.edu> <951925e4-e3ed-0367-721a-7241546f4013@cs.ucla.edu> <3u37pwfb2n.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <838tznhe9v.fsf@gnu.org> <9e47cf3a-8a15-f0d0-66db-4fffb7dcee38@cs.ucla.edu> <83inyrf6lw.fsf@gnu.org> <4201e7d9-9143-b02b-909d-8665d32d6eae@cs.ucla.edu> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -7.1 (-------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org, rgm@gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -7.1 (-------) > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , rgm@gnu.org, 19889@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 06 May 2016 15:32:43 -0400 > > > The problem is, which font to specify explicitly? Not all platforms > > have a font named "Courier". > > That's what face-font-family-alternatives is for. We already have an > entry in there for "courier", so it just needs to be completed. But if what we want is a specific font, then adding its family will produce unreliable results, and might well yield a font we don't want in some setups. IOW, what you suggest was already tried, and found to fail in some cases. We are trying to fix those cases, so using the same technique we already know is faulty sounds unwise to me. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 07 02:53:36 2016 Received: (at 19889) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 May 2016 06:53:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42233 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ayw7M-0002CP-6L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 May 2016 02:53:36 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:34521) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ayw7K-0002CA-IP for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 May 2016 02:53:34 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ayw7C-0004Kn-7w for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 May 2016 02:53:29 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:32953) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ayw7C-0004Kf-4w; Sat, 07 May 2016 02:53:26 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3656 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ayw78-0004RE-W2; Sat, 07 May 2016 02:53:23 -0400 Date: Sat, 07 May 2016 09:53:39 +0300 Message-Id: <837ff6fjf0.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Glenn Morris In-reply-to: (message from Glenn Morris on Fri, 06 May 2016 16:22:53 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#19889: References: <56744F95.20307@cs.ucla.edu> <951925e4-e3ed-0367-721a-7241546f4013@cs.ucla.edu> <3u37pwfb2n.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <3q4mab7xv7.fsf_-_@fencepost.gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -7.1 (-------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -7.1 (-------) > From: Glenn Morris > Date: Fri, 06 May 2016 16:22:53 -0400 > Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org > > PS Manually setting the font family to "Nimbus Mono L" works. > This is what fc-match returns for me: > > fc-match courier > n022003l.pfb: "Nimbus Mono L" "Regular" > > Yet for "font family: courier", Emacs selects x:-adobe-courier-medium, > for some reason. Both belong to the Courier family, right? So which one is found first is entirely implementation-dependent. When we ask for a family, we are saying that we will accept _any_ member of that family. If we are unwilling to accept some of its members, we should request a specific font (or maybe specify more than just a family, but I'm not aware of any such additional specs; foundry, perhaps?). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 07 03:01:30 2016 Received: (at 19889) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 May 2016 07:01:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42238 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aywF0-0002Ox-2O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 May 2016 03:01:30 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:35154) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aywEx-0002Oj-FC for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 May 2016 03:01:28 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aywEq-0005sE-PQ for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 May 2016 03:01:22 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:33022) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aywEn-0005qW-45; Sat, 07 May 2016 03:01:17 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3664 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aywEk-0001s7-L6; Sat, 07 May 2016 03:01:15 -0400 Date: Sat, 07 May 2016 10:01:30 +0300 Message-Id: <8360uqfj1x.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Paul Eggert In-reply-to: <572D5AED.4070408@cs.ucla.edu> (message from Paul Eggert on Fri, 6 May 2016 20:03:09 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#19889: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23 References: <56744F95.20307@cs.ucla.edu> <951925e4-e3ed-0367-721a-7241546f4013@cs.ucla.edu> <3u37pwfb2n.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <838tznhe9v.fsf@gnu.org> <9e47cf3a-8a15-f0d0-66db-4fffb7dcee38@cs.ucla.edu> <83inyrf6lw.fsf@gnu.org> <4201e7d9-9143-b02b-909d-8665d32d6eae@cs.ucla.edu> <83futvf1sz.fsf@gnu.org> <572D5AED.4070408@cs.ucla.edu> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -7.1 (-------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org, rgm@gnu.org, monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -7.1 (-------) > From: Paul Eggert > Cc: rgm@gnu.org, 19889@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA > Date: Fri, 6 May 2016 20:03:09 -0700 > > I looked for a good source about this issue, and found someone who took a > circa-2012 census of Courier-like fonts on various web browsers and who > evaluated their looks when combined with non-Courier fonts. He writes that on > GNU/Linux platforms, the most common Courier fonts were Nimbus Mono L (98.2%) > and FreeMono (85.2%) but these fonts are a bit faint to be mixing with other > fonts, and that Courier 10 Pitch (85.0%) was a better choice. On OS X, he writes > that Courier Std (2.1%), Consolas (48.6%), and Courier (99.5%) are all good > choices, whereas Courier New (96.8%) is a bit faint. On MS-Windows, he says > Consolas (88.6%) and Courier (3.6%) are good choices, whereas FreeMono (0.6%) > and Courier New (99.8%) are a bit faint. As a result of all this, he suggests > the following order for Web use: "Courier 10 Pitch", "Courier Std", Consolas, > Courier, "TeX Gyre Cursor", TeXGyreCursor, "Nimbus Mono L", FreeMono, > "Courier New", monospace. See > . > > I doubt whether GNU Emacs should be defaulting to the non-free fonts in that > list(e.g., Consolas), given that the free fonts are so widely available.Courier > New is often disliked (it was digitized directly from the IBM Selectric golfball > which was at odds with how the Selectric actually worked). I don't know about > TeX Gyre Cursor, but it doesn't seem to be common on Fedora and Ubuntu anyway. > The other Courier-like fonts are close to the list I already proposed. Courier New is the default font on MS-Windows, so selecting it means we will have a face that is indistinguishable from the default: not good. Consolas comes with latest Windows versions out of the box, so I don't think there's a problem in having it on the list (we could do that only on Windows, if we don't want to recommend it on GNU/Linux). I don't understand what "monospace" means in that list. There's no such font, AFAIK, and all the other fonts are monospaced already, so what's behind that "monospace"? any other monospaced font? Other than that, how about using the outcome of that census, and request specific fonts it mentions, ordered by their quality, as the census recommends? I think this will yield better results than relying on family matches. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 07 12:56:28 2016 Received: (at 19889) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 May 2016 16:56:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42891 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1az5Wl-0001DO-TP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 May 2016 12:56:28 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:36745) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1az5Wj-0001DA-IE for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 May 2016 12:56:26 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDF621611BC; Sat, 7 May 2016 09:56:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id u4peJx8eWOhc; Sat, 7 May 2016 09:56:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A10911611DF; Sat, 7 May 2016 09:56:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id qDYE98GMg6tO; Sat, 7 May 2016 09:56:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [100.32.155.148]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7C5C11611BC; Sat, 7 May 2016 09:56:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#19889: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23 To: Glenn Morris References: <56744F95.20307@cs.ucla.edu> <951925e4-e3ed-0367-721a-7241546f4013@cs.ucla.edu> <3u37pwfb2n.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <3q4mab7xv7.fsf_-_@fencepost.gnu.org> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <572E1E2C.3050206@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Sat, 7 May 2016 09:56:12 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3q4mab7xv7.fsf_-_@fencepost.gnu.org> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000400020604020808070107" X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000400020604020808070107 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Glenn Morris wrote: > Thanks, but it makes no difference for me on RHEL7. > Emacs still uses the same poor non-xft font: > > x:-adobe-courier-medium-r-normal--14-140-75-75-m-90-iso8859-1 > > (The addition of fixed-pitch-serif as a base face is of course desirable.) Thanks for checking. I reproduced your problem on Ubuntu 16.04 by installing the optional package xfonts-75dpi. Please try the attached patch to emacs-25 instead of what I sent earlier. This patch tries to address Eli's comments, which I'll follow up on separately. --------------000400020604020808070107 Content-Type: text/x-diff; name="0001-Improve-display-of-tex-verbatim-and-Info-quoted.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename*0="0001-Improve-display-of-tex-verbatim-and-Info-quoted.patch" >From e17028f4319ba6f6979fd4f5003e3f55b138e8d2 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Paul Eggert Date: Sat, 7 May 2016 09:50:59 -0700 Subject: [PATCH] Improve display of tex-verbatim and Info quoted Problem reported by Glenn Morris (Bug#19889). * doc/emacs/display.texi (Standard Faces): * doc/lispref/display.texi (Basic Faces): * etc/NEWS: Mention fixed-pitch-serif. * lisp/faces.el (face-font-family-alternatives): New family alias Monospace Serif. (fixed-pitch-serif): New face, which uses the new family. * lisp/info.el (Info-quoted): * lisp/textmodes/tex-mode.el (tex-verbatim): Use the new face. --- doc/emacs/display.texi | 3 +++ doc/lispref/display.texi | 1 + etc/NEWS | 4 ++++ lisp/faces.el | 29 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ lisp/info.el | 2 +- lisp/textmodes/tex-mode.el | 3 +-- 6 files changed, 39 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-) diff --git a/doc/emacs/display.texi b/doc/emacs/display.texi index 8039291..83be85f3 100644 --- a/doc/emacs/display.texi +++ b/doc/emacs/display.texi @@ -613,6 +613,9 @@ Standard Faces This face forces use of a fixed-width font. It's reasonable to customize this face to use a different fixed-width font, if you like, but you should not make it a variable-width font. +@item fixed-pitch-serif +This face is like @code{fixed-pitch}, except the font has serifs and +looks more like traditional typewriting. @cindex variable-pitch face @item variable-pitch This face forces use of a variable-width font. diff --git a/doc/lispref/display.texi b/doc/lispref/display.texi index 181bff0..087d6ba 100644 --- a/doc/lispref/display.texi +++ b/doc/lispref/display.texi @@ -3017,6 +3017,7 @@ Basic Faces @itemx bold-italic @itemx underline @itemx fixed-pitch +@itemx fixed-pitch-serif @itemx variable-pitch These have the attributes indicated by their names (e.g., @code{bold} has a bold @code{:weight} attribute), with all other attributes diff --git a/etc/NEWS b/etc/NEWS index 785d14b..242d3fc 100644 --- a/etc/NEWS +++ b/etc/NEWS @@ -1761,6 +1761,10 @@ calculation. This function is different from 'window-body-width' in that it accounts for (i) continuation glyphs, (ii) the size of the font, and (iii) the specified window. ++++ +*** New basic face 'fixed-pitch-serif', for a fixed-width font with serifs. +The Info-quoted and tex-verbatim faces now default to inheriting from it. + --- ** New utilities in subr-x.el: diff --git a/lisp/faces.el b/lisp/faces.el index fddc036..b1ea0f0 100644 --- a/lisp/faces.el +++ b/lisp/faces.el @@ -98,7 +98,31 @@ face-font-selection-order (defcustom face-font-family-alternatives (mapcar (lambda (arg) (mapcar 'purecopy arg)) '(("Monospace" "courier" "fixed") + + ;; Monospace Serif is an Emacs invention, intended to work around + ;; portability problems when using Courier. It should work well + ;; when combined with Monospaced and with other standard fonts. + ("Monospace Serif" + + ;; This looks good on GNU/Linux. + "Courier 10 Pitch" + ;; This looks good on MS-Windows and OS X. + "Consolas" + ;; This looks good on OS X. "Courier" looks good too, but is + ;; jagged on GNU/Linux and so is listed later as "courier". + "Courier Std" + ;; Although these are anti-aliased, they are a bit faint compared + ;; to the above. + "FreeMono" "Nimbus Mono L" + ;; These are aliased and look jagged. + "courier" "fixed" + ;; Omit Courier New, as it is the default MS-Windows font and so + ;; would look no different, and is pretty faint on other platforms. + ) + + ;; This is present for backward compatibility. ("courier" "CMU Typewriter Text" "fixed") + ("Sans Serif" "helv" "helvetica" "arial" "fixed") ("helv" "helvetica" "arial" "fixed"))) "Alist of alternative font family names. @@ -2280,6 +2304,11 @@ fixed-pitch "The basic fixed-pitch face." :group 'basic-faces) +(defface fixed-pitch-serif + '((t :family "Monospace Serif")) + "The basic fixed-pitch face with serifs." + :group 'basic-faces) + (defface variable-pitch '((((type w32)) ;; This is a kludgy workaround for an issue discussed in diff --git a/lisp/info.el b/lisp/info.el index 6426cfc..ae46fba 100644 --- a/lisp/info.el +++ b/lisp/info.el @@ -4236,7 +4236,7 @@ Info-mode-syntax-table "Syntax table used in `Info-mode'.") (defface Info-quoted - '((t :family "courier")) + '((t :inherit fixed-pitch-serif)) "Face used for quoted elements.") (defvar Info-mode-font-lock-keywords diff --git a/lisp/textmodes/tex-mode.el b/lisp/textmodes/tex-mode.el index 3ac68bd..8545a09 100644 --- a/lisp/textmodes/tex-mode.el +++ b/lisp/textmodes/tex-mode.el @@ -801,8 +801,7 @@ 'tex-math-face (defvar tex-math-face 'tex-math) (defface tex-verbatim - ;; '((t :inherit font-lock-string-face)) - '((t :family "courier")) + '((t :inherit fixed-pitch-serif)) "Face used to highlight TeX verbatim environments." :group 'tex) (define-obsolete-face-alias 'tex-verbatim-face 'tex-verbatim "22.1") -- 2.7.4 --------------000400020604020808070107-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 07 13:05:42 2016 Received: (at 19889) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 May 2016 17:05:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42895 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1az5fh-0001Qc-TX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 May 2016 13:05:42 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:37191) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1az5ff-0001QN-MM for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 May 2016 13:05:40 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE3561611BC; Sat, 7 May 2016 10:05:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id BTzPvCTxmnf0; Sat, 7 May 2016 10:05:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id F02BA1611DF; Sat, 7 May 2016 10:05:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id eRfzv7oRbkaN; Sat, 7 May 2016 10:05:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [100.32.155.148]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9662C1611BC; Sat, 7 May 2016 10:05:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#19889: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23 To: Eli Zaretskii References: <56744F95.20307@cs.ucla.edu> <951925e4-e3ed-0367-721a-7241546f4013@cs.ucla.edu> <3u37pwfb2n.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <838tznhe9v.fsf@gnu.org> <9e47cf3a-8a15-f0d0-66db-4fffb7dcee38@cs.ucla.edu> <83inyrf6lw.fsf@gnu.org> <4201e7d9-9143-b02b-909d-8665d32d6eae@cs.ucla.edu> <83futvf1sz.fsf@gnu.org> <572D5AED.4070408@cs.ucla.edu> <8360uqfj1x.fsf@gnu.org> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <572E2057.7060501@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Sat, 7 May 2016 10:05:27 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8360uqfj1x.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org, rgm@gnu.org, monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Courier New is the default font on MS-Windows, so selecting it means > we will have a face that is indistinguishable from the default: not > good. OK, the patch I just sent to Bug#19889 does that. > Consolas comes with latest Windows versions out of the box, so I don't > think there's a problem in having it on the list (we could do that > only on Windows, if we don't want to recommend it on GNU/Linux). Probably not worth the hassle. I merely listed it after Courier 10 Pitch. > I don't understand what "monospace" means in that list. There's no > such font, AFAIK, and all the other fonts are monospaced already, so > what's behind that "monospace"? any other monospaced font? The source was talking about CSS, and I guess "monospace" has a meaning i= n CSS that is roughly the same as "Monospace" in face-font-family-alternatives. > Other than that, how about using the outcome of that census, and > request specific fonts it mentions, ordered by their quality, as the > census recommends? I think this will yield better results than > relying on family matches. The patch I just sent does that, by inventing a name "Monospace Serif" as= a way to make the request conveniently as an argument to :family when using def= face. It sounds like you may prefer doing this sort of thing in some other way,= but I do not know what that way would be and so would appreciate any advice, as= I am by no means an expert in Emacs font configuration and am just trying to g= et the bug fixed for the typical user. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 07 13:27:23 2016 Received: (at 19889) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 May 2016 17:27:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42907 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1az60h-0001uV-De for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 May 2016 13:27:23 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:37892) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1az60f-0001uI-Bu for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 May 2016 13:27:21 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1az60Y-00017F-S0 for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 May 2016 13:27:16 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:41800) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1az60U-00015M-Tb; Sat, 07 May 2016 13:27:10 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4641 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1az60T-0006rO-7P; Sat, 07 May 2016 13:27:10 -0400 Date: Sat, 07 May 2016 20:27:06 +0300 Message-Id: <83posxeq39.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Paul Eggert In-reply-to: <572E2057.7060501@cs.ucla.edu> (message from Paul Eggert on Sat, 7 May 2016 10:05:27 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#19889: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23 References: <56744F95.20307@cs.ucla.edu> <951925e4-e3ed-0367-721a-7241546f4013@cs.ucla.edu> <3u37pwfb2n.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <838tznhe9v.fsf@gnu.org> <9e47cf3a-8a15-f0d0-66db-4fffb7dcee38@cs.ucla.edu> <83inyrf6lw.fsf@gnu.org> <4201e7d9-9143-b02b-909d-8665d32d6eae@cs.ucla.edu> <83futvf1sz.fsf@gnu.org> <572D5AED.4070408@cs.ucla.edu> <8360uqfj1x.fsf@gnu.org> <572E2057.7060501@cs.ucla.edu> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -7.1 (-------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org, rgm@gnu.org, monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -7.1 (-------) > Cc: rgm@gnu.org, 19889@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA > From: Paul Eggert > Date: Sat, 7 May 2016 10:05:27 -0700 > > > Other than that, how about using the outcome of that census, and > > request specific fonts it mentions, ordered by their quality, as the > > census recommends? I think this will yield better results than > > relying on family matches. > > The patch I just sent does that, by inventing a name "Monospace Serif" as a way > to make the request conveniently as an argument to :family when using defface. > It sounds like you may prefer doing this sort of thing in some other way No, what your patch does is fine with me, actually. It does call out font names, which is what I had in mind. The result on my system is to use Consolas where Emacs previously used Courier, to display symbols in Info buffers. I don't mind the change, but I'd urge others to try the patch and see if it causes any problems. > I am by no means an expert in Emacs font configuration No one is these days, unfortunately. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 07 16:37:59 2016 Received: (at 19889) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 May 2016 20:38:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42944 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1az8z9-0006Ai-Na for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 May 2016 16:37:59 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:45248) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1az8z8-0006AV-9x for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 May 2016 16:37:58 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 254C51611FB; Sat, 7 May 2016 13:37:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id I2wGmQxBiObq; Sat, 7 May 2016 13:37:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72BC81611FC; Sat, 7 May 2016 13:37:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id c1fahQ65gHpA; Sat, 7 May 2016 13:37:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [100.32.155.148]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 489B31611FB; Sat, 7 May 2016 13:37:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#19889: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23 To: Eli Zaretskii References: <56744F95.20307@cs.ucla.edu> <951925e4-e3ed-0367-721a-7241546f4013@cs.ucla.edu> <3u37pwfb2n.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <838tznhe9v.fsf@gnu.org> <9e47cf3a-8a15-f0d0-66db-4fffb7dcee38@cs.ucla.edu> <83inyrf6lw.fsf@gnu.org> <4201e7d9-9143-b02b-909d-8665d32d6eae@cs.ucla.edu> <83futvf1sz.fsf@gnu.org> <572D5AED.4070408@cs.ucla.edu> <8360uqfj1x.fsf@gnu.org> <572E2057.7060501@cs.ucla.edu> <83posxeq39.fsf@gnu.org> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <572E521E.7020403@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Sat, 7 May 2016 13:37:50 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <83posxeq39.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org, rgm@gnu.org, monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) Eli Zaretskii wrote: > I don't mind the change, > but I'd urge others to try the patch and see if it causes any > problems. Yes, it's Glenn in particular that I had in mind. If this patch works for Glenn I'm inclined to install it into the emacs-25 branch (which will encourage others to test it too...). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 13 17:33:26 2016 Received: (at 19889-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 May 2016 21:33:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50294 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1b1Ki6-0004uU-0n for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 May 2016 17:33:26 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:44800) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1b1Ki4-0004uI-1M for 19889-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 May 2016 17:33:24 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 771D2160D3D; Fri, 13 May 2016 14:33:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id PA1yqEirwuQP; Fri, 13 May 2016 14:33:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A30BA1612D1; Fri, 13 May 2016 14:33:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id n3hoMgirMtaq; Fri, 13 May 2016 14:33:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from penguin.cs.ucla.edu (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 865AC160D3D; Fri, 13 May 2016 14:33:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#19889: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23 To: Eli Zaretskii References: <56744F95.20307@cs.ucla.edu> <951925e4-e3ed-0367-721a-7241546f4013@cs.ucla.edu> <3u37pwfb2n.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <838tznhe9v.fsf@gnu.org> <9e47cf3a-8a15-f0d0-66db-4fffb7dcee38@cs.ucla.edu> <83inyrf6lw.fsf@gnu.org> <4201e7d9-9143-b02b-909d-8665d32d6eae@cs.ucla.edu> <83futvf1sz.fsf@gnu.org> <572D5AED.4070408@cs.ucla.edu> <8360uqfj1x.fsf@gnu.org> <572E2057.7060501@cs.ucla.edu> <83posxeq39.fsf@gnu.org> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 14:33:17 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <83posxeq39.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889-done Cc: 19889-done@debbugs.gnu.org, rgm@gnu.org, monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) On 05/07/2016 10:27 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > I don't mind the change, > but I'd urge others to try the patch and see if it causes any > problems. I installed the patch into master, to get the ball rolling on that. Although I had been thinking of installing the patch into emacs-25, I see that Bug#19759 no longer lists 19889 or 22207 as blockers, which means emacs-25 is not a suitable place for the patch. (Bug#22207 was a blocker but I could not reproduce it and so closed it on May 5.) Bug#19889 says it blocks 19759 as of 2015-12-18 and there is no indication it was ever unblocked. Conversely, Bug#19759 does not currently list Bug#19889 as a blocker; I don't know why not. If Bug#19889 is supposed to still be a blocker, then the patch should be backported from master to emacs-25. At any event Bug#19889 seems to be fixed in master, so I am boldly closing it now; if this is wrong we can always reopen it of course. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 14 03:48:50 2016 Received: (at 19889) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 May 2016 07:48:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50414 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1b1UJd-0002io-Qi for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 May 2016 03:48:50 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:49909) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1b1UJZ-0002iX-Qs for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 May 2016 03:48:48 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1b1UJT-0001hp-PN for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 May 2016 03:48:40 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:52473) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1b1UJM-0001f0-Sb; Sat, 14 May 2016 03:48:32 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1447 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1b1UJE-0006GV-L1; Sat, 14 May 2016 03:48:30 -0400 Date: Sat, 14 May 2016 10:48:39 +0300 Message-Id: <838tzd84h4.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Paul Eggert In-reply-to: (message from Paul Eggert on Fri, 13 May 2016 14:33:17 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#19889: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23 References: <56744F95.20307@cs.ucla.edu> <951925e4-e3ed-0367-721a-7241546f4013@cs.ucla.edu> <3u37pwfb2n.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <838tznhe9v.fsf@gnu.org> <9e47cf3a-8a15-f0d0-66db-4fffb7dcee38@cs.ucla.edu> <83inyrf6lw.fsf@gnu.org> <4201e7d9-9143-b02b-909d-8665d32d6eae@cs.ucla.edu> <83futvf1sz.fsf@gnu.org> <572D5AED.4070408@cs.ucla.edu> <8360uqfj1x.fsf@gnu.org> <572E2057.7060501@cs.ucla.edu> <83posxeq39.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org, rgm@gnu.org, monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) > Cc: rgm@gnu.org, 19889-done@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA > From: Paul Eggert > Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 14:33:17 -0700 > > Bug#19889 says it blocks 19759 as of 2015-12-18 and there is no > indication it was ever unblocked. Conversely, Bug#19759 does not > currently list Bug#19889 as a blocker; I don't know why not. Perhaps this happened when 19889 was unmerged from all the other bug reports. I don't know if it should be a blocker: does the problem still exist on emacs-25, and if so, is it bad enough to block the release? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 14 04:24:23 2016 Received: (at 19889) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 May 2016 08:24:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50422 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1b1Us2-0003aY-VU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 May 2016 04:24:23 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:43296) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1b1Us1-0003aL-2r for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 May 2016 04:24:21 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27D9B1612A7; Sat, 14 May 2016 01:24:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id YNlnO0nttRVw; Sat, 14 May 2016 01:24:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 840F31612A9; Sat, 14 May 2016 01:24:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id TICSlOPuDiZs; Sat, 14 May 2016 01:24:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [100.32.155.148]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1B7D11612A7; Sat, 14 May 2016 01:24:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#19889: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23 To: Eli Zaretskii References: <56744F95.20307@cs.ucla.edu> <951925e4-e3ed-0367-721a-7241546f4013@cs.ucla.edu> <3u37pwfb2n.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <838tznhe9v.fsf@gnu.org> <9e47cf3a-8a15-f0d0-66db-4fffb7dcee38@cs.ucla.edu> <83inyrf6lw.fsf@gnu.org> <4201e7d9-9143-b02b-909d-8665d32d6eae@cs.ucla.edu> <83futvf1sz.fsf@gnu.org> <572D5AED.4070408@cs.ucla.edu> <8360uqfj1x.fsf@gnu.org> <572E2057.7060501@cs.ucla.edu> <83posxeq39.fsf@gnu.org> <838tzd84h4.fsf@gnu.org> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <5736E0AB.7030601@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Sat, 14 May 2016 01:24:11 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <838tzd84h4.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org, rgm@gnu.org, monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) Eli Zaretskii wrote: > does the problem still exist > on emacs-25, Yes. > is it bad enough to block the release? Not from what I can see. On my screen it's a relatively minor issue (i.e., an ugly font, but still readable). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 14 05:28:05 2016 Received: (at 19889) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 May 2016 09:28:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50446 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1b1Vrh-00058y-2o for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 May 2016 05:28:05 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:59479) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1b1Vrf-00058S-JP for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 May 2016 05:28:03 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1b1VrZ-0003QY-OC for 19889@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 May 2016 05:27:58 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:53462) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1b1VrV-0003Oa-CB; Sat, 14 May 2016 05:27:53 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1568 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1b1VrN-00022H-Hp; Sat, 14 May 2016 05:27:51 -0400 Date: Sat, 14 May 2016 12:28:00 +0300 Message-Id: <83twi16lb3.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Paul Eggert In-reply-to: <5736E0AB.7030601@cs.ucla.edu> (message from Paul Eggert on Sat, 14 May 2016 01:24:11 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#19889: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23 References: <56744F95.20307@cs.ucla.edu> <951925e4-e3ed-0367-721a-7241546f4013@cs.ucla.edu> <3u37pwfb2n.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <838tznhe9v.fsf@gnu.org> <9e47cf3a-8a15-f0d0-66db-4fffb7dcee38@cs.ucla.edu> <83inyrf6lw.fsf@gnu.org> <4201e7d9-9143-b02b-909d-8665d32d6eae@cs.ucla.edu> <83futvf1sz.fsf@gnu.org> <572D5AED.4070408@cs.ucla.edu> <8360uqfj1x.fsf@gnu.org> <572E2057.7060501@cs.ucla.edu> <83posxeq39.fsf@gnu.org> <838tzd84h4.fsf@gnu.org> <5736E0AB.7030601@cs.ucla.edu> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19889 Cc: 19889@debbugs.gnu.org, rgm@gnu.org, monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) > Cc: rgm@gnu.org, 19889@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA > From: Paul Eggert > Date: Sat, 14 May 2016 01:24:11 -0700 > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > does the problem still exist > > on emacs-25, > > Yes. > > > is it bad enough to block the release? > > Not from what I can see. On my screen it's a relatively minor issue (i.e., an > ugly font, but still readable). Then I think we can leave the fix on master. (I tried on my system, and the font is also readable, and not even ugly IMO -- but it's a different font from what you see, of course.) Thanks. From unknown Sat Jun 21 10:30:21 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 11:24:03 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator